Big Parma

Summary

Ridiculous History: Episode Summary – "Big Parma"

Released on December 26, 2024 by iHeartPodcasts

In the episode titled "Big Parma," hosts Ben Bolan and Alex French delve deep into the expansive and often overlooked influence of the dairy industry on American society and cuisine. Through a blend of historical analysis, investigative journalism, and engaging storytelling, the episode uncovers how cheese has permeated virtually every aspect of the modern diet, leading to what the hosts dub the "Big Parma" – the dairy industrial complex.

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1. Introduction to Big Parma

The episode opens with Ben and Alex posing a seemingly simple question: "How did cheese get into everything?" This inquiry serves as the catalyst for their exploration into the dairy industry's pervasive presence in American food culture. They trace the meteoric rise in cheese consumption, noting that in 1995, the average American consumed just over 14 pounds of cheese annually. By 2022, this number had surged to nearly 42 pounds per person, illustrating an alarming increase driven largely by industrial and governmental influences.

Notable Quote:

"In 1995, the average American consumed a little more than 14 pounds of cheese per year. In 2019, it jumped to about 40.4 pounds, and by 2022, it reached nearly 42 pounds per person."
— Ben Bolan [08:32]

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2. Historical Context of Dairy in America

Ben and Alex take listeners back to the 1800s, highlighting the introduction of cows to the Americas by European colonists around the time of Christopher Columbus's second voyage in 1490. They discuss how cattle became tools of colonialism, transforming landscapes and ecosystems while displacing native species. This historical foundation sets the stage for understanding the entrenched position of dairy in American agriculture and economy.

Notable Quote:

"Cattle were a tool of colonialism, changing landscapes and pushing out native species. Their expansion influenced the area just as much as the humans themselves."
— Alex French [12:36]

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3. The Great Depression and Dairy Subsidies

The Great Depression marked a pivotal moment for American dairy farmers. As the economy plummeted, milk prices collapsed, leading to widespread financial distress among farmers. In response, President Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal introduced the Commodity Credit Corporation (CCC) in 1933 to stabilize farm incomes by purchasing surplus milk. This government intervention established a precedent for ongoing dairy subsidies, ensuring the industry's survival through economic turmoil.

Notable Quote:

"The Commodity Credit Corporation was created to stabilize, support, and protect farm incomes and prices, laying the groundwork for future subsidies."
— Ben Bolan [20:16]

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4. Government Intervention and the Rise of Processed Cheese

Post-World War II, the decline in military demand for dairy products left the U.S. government with large surplus stocks. To manage this, policies shifted towards producing processed cheese, a non-perishable product that could be stored indefinitely. In the 1980s, under President Ronald Reagan, the government distributed "government cheese" to address both surplus and hunger. This dual-purpose strategy not only provided a solution to waste but also reinforced the dairy industry's dependency on federal support.

Notable Quote:

"Government cheese was touted as a solution for both surplus milk and hunger, creating a symbiotic relationship between the state and the dairy industry."
— Alex French [25:03]

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5. Dairy Management Incorporated (DMI) and Marketing Dominance

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Dairy Management Incorporated (DMI), a powerful trade association funded by the Dairy Promotion program. Established in 1990, DMI has been instrumental in promoting dairy products through strategic partnerships with major fast-food chains like McDonald's, Pizza Hut, and Taco Bell. The hosts reveal how DMI's initiatives have led to the inundation of cheese in everyday foods, exemplified by products like Pizza Hut's stuffed crust pizza and Taco Bell's Quesalupa.

Notable Quote:

"DMI has embedded dairy scientists within top American food chains, brainstorming ways to flood the market with cheese-laden products."
— Ben Bolan [35:17]

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6. Health Implications and Industry Criticism

Ben and Alex address the health ramifications of excessive dairy consumption, including obesity, heart disease, diabetes, and certain cancers. They critique DMI's efforts to mitigate negative perceptions by partnering with health institutions like the Mayo Clinic, drawing parallels to other industries that obscure harmful effects through strategic alliances.

Notable Quote:

"DMI bears an alarming resemblance to industries like tobacco or liquor, pushing products known to harm consumers while masking their impact through partnerships with health organizations."
— Alex French [41:55]

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7. Global Impact and Current Challenges

The episode highlights how the U.S. dairy industry's push for economies of scale has led to massive production increases, resulting in global market dependencies. Changes in international demand, such as the fluctuating Chinese market, pose significant challenges, forcing the U.S. government to continually intervene to maintain the industry's stability. This global interconnectedness underscores the complexity and resilience of the Big Parma.

Notable Quote:

"Global market changes, like China’s fluctuating demand, leave the U.S. dairy industry in a precarious position, necessitating ongoing government intervention."
— Ben Bolan [28:55]

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8. Conclusion: The Future of Big Parma

Ben and Alex conclude by reflecting on the future trajectory of the dairy industry. They question whether the relentless push for cheese integration is sustainable, considering the mounting health concerns and changing global markets. The episode serves as a cautionary tale about the implications of industrial influence on food culture and public health.

Notable Quote:

"Is the relentless push for more dairy in our diets sustainable, or are we headed towards a future where Big Parma's influence continues to overshadow public health and natural demand?"
— Alex French [42:35]

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Key Takeaways

• Historical Legacy: The dairy industry's deep-rooted presence in America stems from colonialism and government intervention during economic crises.

• Economic Power: Dairy subsidies and trade organizations like DMI have established a powerful industry complex that shapes food production and consumption patterns.

• Health Concerns: High dairy consumption is linked to various health issues, raising questions about the industry's practices and motivations.

• Global Dependencies: The U.S. dairy industry's reliance on international markets underscores the vulnerabilities and complexities of maintaining such a large-scale operation.

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Notable Quotes Compilation:

1. Ben Bolan [08:32]:

   "In 1995, the average American consumed a little more than 14 pounds of cheese per year. In 2019, it jumped to about 40.4 pounds, and by 2022, it reached nearly 42 pounds per person."

2. Alex French [12:36]:

   "Cattle were a tool of colonialism, changing landscapes and pushing out native species. Their expansion influenced the area just as much as the humans themselves."

3. Ben Bolan [20:16]:

   "The Commodity Credit Corporation was created to stabilize, support, and protect farm incomes and prices, laying the groundwork for future subsidies."

4. Alex French [25:03]:

   "Government cheese was touted as a solution for both surplus milk and hunger, creating a symbiotic relationship between the state and the dairy industry."

5. Ben Bolan [35:17]:

   "DMI has embedded dairy scientists within top American food chains, brainstorming ways to flood the market with cheese-laden products."

6. Alex French [41:55]:

   "DMI bears an alarming resemblance to industries like tobacco or liquor, pushing products known to harm consumers while masking their impact through partnerships with health organizations."

7. Ben Bolan [28:55]:

   "Global market changes, like China’s fluctuating demand, leave the U.S. dairy industry in a precarious position, necessitating ongoing government intervention."

8. Alex French [42:35]:

   "Is the relentless push for more dairy in our diets sustainable, or are we headed towards a future where Big Parma's influence continues to overshadow public health and natural demand?"

---

"Big Parma" offers listeners a comprehensive and critical examination of the dairy industry's historical and contemporary influence on American society. By uncovering the intricate relationships between government policies, trade organizations, and food production, Ben and Alex provide valuable insights into how cheese became a staple in an array of unexpected places, prompting reflection on the broader implications for public health and industry practices.

Transcript

[Ben Bolan]

Stay farming. DJ Dramos from life as a Gringo no Making smarter financial moves today secures your financial freedom for a successful tomorrow.

[Jason English]

In my family, one of the biggest points of contention was finances. And I know as I gotten older I made it a promise to myself to say, I don't want to relive that. You know, hiring somebody to do credit repair for me. That was a gift that I gave myself that allowed me to then get my first apartment, then eventually buy my own home. Like these are all things that are possible.

[Ben Bolan]

Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. State Farm, proud sponsor of my Cultura podcast network.

[Dana Zarin]

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[Ben Bolan]

Wow.

[Dana Zarin]

What is this place?

[Ben Bolan]

Welcome to Cloud 9.

[Dana Zarin]

How exactly did I get here?

[Ben Bolan]

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[Alex French]

Crown drivers ever reach this level of pure bliss.

[Ben Bolan]

The refined but elegant design makes you sit up a little straighter. It gives you a rush of confidence as soon as you're behind the wheel and a feeling of all eyes on you. That's how the crown transports you here.

[Alex French]

It's pretty awesome, right?

[Ben Bolan]

The captivating Toyota Crown Family Toyota let's go Places. Hey, what's up, guys?

[Alex French]

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[Ben Bolan]

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[Alex French]

I'm big on sweater polos and trousers.

[Ben Bolan]

With a wool blend coat over top for those really fancy holiday events. Abercrombie has suiting options too. Shop Abercrombie for every night out. Iheart Originals.

[Dana Zarin]

This is an iheart original.

[Jason English]

Welcome back to Very Special Episodes. So glad you're here. My name is Jason English. Today, Dana Zarin and I have something extra very special in store for you. We have two very special guest stars from elsewhere in the I heart cinematic universe. Our good friends Ben Bolan and Alex French are going to be taking the mic. This one starts with a simple question. How the did cheese get in? Everything from stuffed crust pizza to got milk ads to that famous West Wing episode, these guys cover a ton of ground. Ben and Alex are a great team. They'll be back on this feed throughout 2025. Popping in here and there's. We haven't recorded their next episode yet or else I would end today's show with a post credit scene. But I will give you one spoiler. It starts in a waffle house. That's a food story for another day. Today we're talking big Parma.

[Ben Bolan]

The year is 1995. Coolio has a massive radio hit with Gangsta's Paradise. Bruce Willis, Die hard with a Vengeance, is king of the international box office. The Internet is privatized. AOL and Prodigy usher forth the birth of the information age. OJ Is acquitted. The Cheesecake Factory rapidly becomes one of suburban America's favorite kitchens. And on every TV set, Donald Trump and his ex wife Ivana, divorced for five years by then are hawking mutant pies for Pizza Hut. Do you really think this is the right thing for us to be doing? Ivana? What will people think? Let them talk. Tunnel. Ivana.

[Alex French]

Ivana Vanavana.

[Ben Bolan]

It's wrong, isn't it? But it feels so right. Then it's a deal.

[Alex French]

Yes.

[Ben Bolan]

We eat our pizza the wrong way crust first.

[Jason English]

Introducing stuffed crust pizza from Pizza Hut.

[Ben Bolan]

With a ring of cheese baked into a totally new thinner crust. You'll want to eat it the wrong way crust first. I have the last slice.

[Alex French]

Actually.

[Ben Bolan]

You're only entitled to half large.

[Jason English]

Just $9.99.

[Alex French]

Obesity was an epidemic.

[Ben Bolan]

About one in five American adults was considered dangerously overweight in 1995. Heart disease was on the rise. I mean, oof. What a time.

[Alex French]

Oh, I remember it well. Ben moving through the world in a food induced stupor from a constant barrage of gargantuan portions served up at popular casual dining chains. Yet the stuffed crust pizza creation was world Chang. A watershed moment in the history of stunt food. An unnecessary anything goes sort of Gimmick that led to nothing good.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, because pizza is already perfect. Sticking cheese in the crust. However, it felt like it was bad.

[Alex French]

Tummy ache. Love handles.

[Ben Bolan]

Ooh.

[Alex French]

Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

[Ben Bolan]

Alex. The list goes on. Pizza Hut rolled out stuffed crust pizza to the public during final four weekend. With a $45 million advertising C suite.

[Alex French]

Execs at the Hut hoped that the solution for stagnant sales numbers was laying a necklace of mozzarella cheese around the pizza crust perimeter and folding over the dough.

[Ben Bolan]

Alan Huston, the chain's president and chief executive, told the New York Times that the stuffed crust pizza represented the razor edge of pizza dough technology and mozzarella management. The recipe called for using a whopping four 50% more cheese than your typical pizza.

[Alex French]

And that stuffed crust pizza innovation wasn't cooked up by Pizza Hut alone. They had help from a secret government agency, a queso cabal, if you will, funded by the dairy industry with the express purpose of convincing the Pizza Huts and Taco Bells of the world to use more milk products in their food, no matter the expense nor the health risks to consumers. The sorts of cretins who think it's okay to load shredded taco blend on a garden salad.

[Ben Bolan]

I'm Ben Bolit.

[Alex French]

I'm Alex French.

[Ben Bolan]

And in this very special episode, we peel back the curtain on the dairy industrial complex, also known as Big Parma. Alex, you and I have been in some pretty deep rabbit holes before.

[Alex French]

That's right. We created a show called let's Start a Coup, which is about a real pill named Smedley Butler who just might have saved America.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, yeah. True story. We sure did. And ever since then, we've been talking about other weird things. I'm always learning new stuff about you. For example, you have never, and this is true, drank a glass of milk.

[Alex French]

Not even once. Not even chocolate or strawberry. As a kid, I escaped it by feigning a milk allergy. Another fun fact. I do not allow yogurt in my house.

[Ben Bolan]

Amazing. Like, I know you well, and I still have a hard time believing that. But regardless, it's safe to say that you and I are both fans of cheese.

[Alex French]

Yeah, I would commit unspeakable crimes for a piece of aged Parmesan drizzled in honey. Anyway, not too long ago, you reached out to me and our pal Jason English, who's executive producer of the show, to ask a pretty odd question.

[Ben Bolan]

When did cheese get into everything? How am I. Wait, am I crazy?

[Alex French]

Well, I don't think cheese is going to be our Deciding factor for that one. But this question did set us on a journey. We started digging and as we progressed, the story just got stranger and stranger. I mean, I believe we uncovered a cheese piracy.

[Ben Bolan]

Right? So in 1975, the average American consumed a little more than 14 pounds of chees per year. In 2019, the average consumer in the United States ate about 40.4 pounds of cheese.

[Alex French]

And in 2022, according to numbers provided by the Cheese Industrial Complex, aka Big Parma Fromage, consumption in the United States set an all time high at nearly 42 pounds per person. A half pound per person increase over the previous year. That is an insane quantity of cheese. Insane. I mean, just think about it. £42, that's two and a half slices of cheese per person per day.

[Ben Bolan]

And let's also consider there are scores of people who don't dig on dairy at all. You know, vegans and folks who, unlike you, are genuinely lactose intolerant.

[Alex French]

Which leads me to wonder, with all those people eating zero cheese, who's at the high end of the average? Who are these people eating 80 pounds of cheese a year? 80 pounds. Rabbit holes, Ben.

[Ben Bolan]

Rabbit holes, Alex. And one day, those same rabbit holes may themselves be stuffed with cheese. You see folks, cheese is everywhere these days. Cheesy gorditas, sides of queso, stuffed crust, pizza, quesalupas, you name it. Things that were once cheeseless are now drenched in the stuff. Not that I'm complaining.

[Alex French]

And I'll tell you what, during a recent expedition to the grocery store, it struck me that by far more square footage and refrigerator space is dedicated to cheese and cheesed foods than any other product.

[Ben Bolan]

And in the course of your journalism career, you've seen tons of trends come and go. I'm sure you've seen cheese trends or cheese filtration in ways that I've never imagined.

[Alex French]

Well, how far is too far? I mean, think of Burrata. One day about a century ago, some guy said, hey, let's put cheese in the cheese. So you and I looked around and asked each other, how did we get here? Does America just have an organic, insatiable demand for this stuff?

[Ben Bolan]

Or is there something smelly afoot?

[Alex French]

Maybe, maybe this is all just the result of consumer demand and companies giving people what they want. Or just maybe they're. Is something stinky here as stinky as an old sock stuffed with Limburger? To answer that question, to really get our heads around big cheese, we have to start with something else. The dairy industry. Strap in, Ben. There's hidden history ahead. Okay, before we go any further. I think we have to take a look at what cheese is.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, yeah. All right, Alex. Imagine describing cheese to aliens. Or for that matter, describing it to anyone encountering cheese for the first time. We'd be like, hey, you guys know milk?

[Alex French]

And they'd be like, ew.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. And we'd say, okay, so we take this milk and we curdle it, and then we press it together and get this. We salt it. Solid milk. It's important to keep in mind that people discovered this well before recorded human history, probably in step with dairy and domestication. So this hypothetical conversation is taking place more than 7,000 years ago, and no.

[Alex French]

One really knows who invented cheese. The technique is that ancient. We do believe, like a lot of inventions and discoveries, that ancient people stumbled across this by accident.

[Ben Bolan]

Classic human classic.

[Alex French]

From there, let's move forward through the rise of the dairy all the way to the United States.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. Before Europeans arrived in the Americas, there wasn't really any big dairy industry to speak of. Indigenous peoples fed themselves through hunting, fishing, foraging, agriculture. All the hits. The first cows arrived on the continent around the same time. Christopher Columbus made his second voyage in.

[Alex French]

1490 and spread across the continent soon after. In a very real way, cattle were a tool of colonialism.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, I dig it. What does that mean exactly?

[Alex French]

Well, think about it. Cattle change the original landscape. Cattle require land, and they also transform it. Their existence and expansion in the Americas pushed out native species. This doesn't get mentioned often, but the animals Europeans brought over influenced the area just as much as the humans. That's what leads anthropologists like Rosa E. Fisek to write Conquest worked indirectly through bodies of cattle, taking up more and more space.

[Ben Bolan]

Mmm. Yeah. And the US has always been in a kind of situationship with cheese. Fans of the West Wing may remember the old story about former President Andrew Jackson and how he kept a ginormous block of cheese right there in the White House. While the West Wing is great tv, they took some liberties with the story.

[Alex French]

Yeah, the story really starts with Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson was given a massive 1600 pound cheese from Western Massachusetts as a gift. And later, when Jackson was elected, his supporters were determined that Jackson should get every honor Jefferson got up to and including a cartoonish hunk of cheddar cheese. So it wasn't that Jackson necessarily loved cheese cheese that much. It was more like political theater.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, oh. And the cheese went on tour, speaking of theater, before it arrived at the White House. Jackson's White House. I mean, the cheese was displayed in Baltimore, New York, and Philadelphia.

[Alex French]

Fast Forward to Jackson's final party as president in 1837. He has a blowout and allows everyone around to scarf down as much of the presidential cheese as they like.

[Ben Bolan]

According to author Benjamin Purley Poor in his reminiscences of 60 years in the national metropolis. This was quite a scene.

[Alex French]

Poor writes. For hours did a crowd of men, women and boys hack at the cheese, many taking large hunks of it away with them. When they commenced. The cheese weighed 1,400 pounds, and only a small piece was saved for the President's use. The air was redolent of cheese, the carpet was slippery with cheese, and nothing else was talked about at Washington that day. Even the scandal about the wife of the President's Secretary of War was forgotten in the tumultuous jubilation of that great occasion.

[Ben Bolan]

That honestly sounds like a blast.

[Alex French]

You know, somebody took a nasty slip and fall on that cheese slicked carpet.

[Ben Bolan]

Cheese slicked carpet. There's a dirt of phrase. It's also important for us to note we're already seeing a narrative at play. A lot of people believe, believe this big block of cheese was a purposeful symbol of democracy, that it stood for the common people, the tired, the poor, the hungry masses yearning to add a.

[Alex French]

Little flavor to their crackers.

[Ben Bolan]

Come on, man. But yeah, you get the drift. It's the kind of PR you just cannot buy. Cheese, or more broadly, dairy means democracy. Something about cheese was seen as a unifying force. And this is not an originally American idea either.

[Alex French]

In her book Milk a Local in Global History, professor Deborah Valens notes Europeans sometimes felt the same way about cheese. Everyone ate it, the wealthy ate it for digestion, and the poor ate it for hunger. But really, again, if we're talking cheese, we're talking milk.

[Ben Bolan]

And milk is a real pickle. Think about it. It's expensive to create at scale. You have to have the cows or the goats or the camels or what, and you have to feed them and care for them. And once you ensure they're healthy, you have to milk them. And once you have the milk, a.

[Alex French]

Clock starts ticking because milk is perishable. You have to process and package and transport it all in a pretty narrow window of time. And if you don't manage to get all those dairy ducks in a row and sell the milk before it goes bad.

[Ben Bolan]

You're out of luck and you're out of a lot of time, sweat and money as well. This is why, for most of human history, milk production was a local or at best, regional affair. And dairy has Been with humans for a long, long time. Despite all the ways milk production can possibly go wrong, it usually works. And we love it when stuff works.

[Alex French]

We do. But Ben, let's just say you, me, and our listeners at home are all hypothetically dairy farmers way back in the day. We'll call ourselves Wholesome Creams and Curds.

[Ben Bolan]

All right, which time period are we talking?

[Alex French]

Let's go 1800s. So maybe our outfit needs to be called Yield Creams and Curds.

[Ben Bolan]

All right, I am in.

[Alex French]

Okay, so here we are, it's the 1800s, and we've been going gangbusters on this whole milk thing. Our cows are doing great. A little too great, in fact. We've sold all the milk we can all around the land. Our customers love us, but they can only drink so much of this stuff. What do we do next?

[Ben Bolan]

Well, we don't want to dump our hard earned dairy down a hole in the ground. And we can't just sit on it. We've spent so much time making this stuff. I mean, yes, the cows are doing the real work, but you know what I'm saying.

[Alex French]

Exactly. We can't leave this opportunity on the table. If we go under, we'll be out of a job and there won't be milk in the future when demand kicks back in.

[Ben Bolan]

I think I see where you're going.

[Alex French]

Cheese. We transform our notoriously perishable product into something that can sit for months, years without spoiling. A popular food for princes and peasants alike. We might even forego the cheesemaking process ourselves. After all, it's the 1800s and there are already well established cheesemakers and mongers.

[Ben Bolan]

So if the demand for milk isn't there, we shift toward a demand for cheese.

[Alex French]

It's a time trusted strategy. And here's the thing. People have been doing this in the modern day. Make no mistake, the US dairy industry is a juggernaut. It has a lot of economic heft. It also weighs heavily on the minds of policymakers. At various times in US History, the dairy industry becomes a matter of national security.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, and jokes aside, it's an odd relationship, isn't it? I mean, the Constitution has no role for federal powers to regulate farmers. And while there were a few exceptions to this general vibe that free enterprise lack of regulation was largely par for the course until about the 1930s.

[Alex French]

This is where we enter one of the most pivotal times in all of US history. The Great Depression.

[Ben Bolan]

It's just a terrible.

[Alex French]

You always say that.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, Alex, it's just misleading. But granted, you're onto something The Great.

[Alex French]

Depression doesn't refer to the happiness of the people. Quite the opposite. Instead, it refers to the sheer magnitude of misery felt by the country overall. Farmers were affected as horribly as anyone else. Picture it. People are starving in the cities. Droughts trigger the Great Okie migration.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath didn't come from nowhere.

[Alex French]

And add to this, prices are going insane. Commodity indexes collapsed, people in urban centers starve, clamoring for food, and farmers are literally throwing away milk to shore up prices.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, check out things like the infamous Wisconsin milk strikes of 1933. We are talking utter chaos. Something had to be done on multiple fronts.

[Alex French]

This is where we see the rise of Roosevelt's New Deal, the sweeping legislation sought by Hooker by crook to save the US economy. And part of that involved dairy subsidies. It was what we might call a.

[Ben Bolan]

Bailout, most notably through something called the Commodity Credit Corporation, created in 1933 expressly to stabilize, support and protect farm incomes and prices.

[Alex French]

The US Survived the Great Depression, but the Commodity Credit Corporation remained. It established a precedent and a trend.

[Ben Bolan]

And these trends continue. Uncle Sam repeatedly supports the dairy industry by purchasing surplus milk. Just like our fictional milk company, Ye Olde Wholesome creams and curds in the 1800s, the US again and again finds itself in a corner. They buy, buy all this milk, this perishable product to keep people's jobs and an entire industry alive. And they don't want that milk to go to waste.

[Alex French]

And this is where we see the rise of butter stockpiles as well as processed cheese. Think about the 1940s. Just a few decades later, military kitchens were chock full of the stuff in World War II. Thankfully, this war didn't last forever. But after 1945, the US government again found itself in a tough spot without all these soldiers doing. Well, it sounds weird to say it.

[Ben Bolan]

But yeah, but without all these soldiers supplying the demand.

[Alex French]

Yeah, that's it really. Without that baked in demand, the US needed to find another place to push all these products. We've entered the era of public private partnerships. To put it simply, cheese lobbies, increasingly powerful interests organizations, and trade groups. They form a policy feedback loop. This is Big Parma.

[Ben Bolan]

Power begets power, right? So once you have one program in place, it becomes as normalized as stuffed crust pizza. And pulling that program back can be political suicide.

[Alex French]

Big Parma not only sought that money out, it did so in ways that weren't always above board.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, yeah, I see where we're going. Shout out to our buddy Archibald Cox from back in the days of Watergate. Our pal Cox didn't just investigate that June 1972 break in the one that spelled doom for old tricky Dick, Cox also looked into a bunch of other alleged crimes. In fact, his task force focused largely on something they called the milk deal, in which a handful of dairy cooperatives bribed then President Nixon with hundreds of thousands of dollars of campaign contributions, all in exchange for record breaking subsidies and tighter import controls on foreign dairy products.

[Alex French]

So for those of us playing along at home. What does that mean, Ben?

[Ben Bolan]

It means, simply put, they managed to make America say, we will sell you our milk and we sure as hell are not buying yours.

[Alex French]

This was only one chapter in a much larger story. And in the wake of Watergate, a thing that was easily forgotten, Uncle Sam scrambled back and forth to keep the dairy industry going through the next few decades. The history of dairy farming in the 20th century is really about labor. I mean, think about it. The creation of cooperatives that set prices and then held strikes or boycotts when they weren't treated fairly. When the supply of milk drops off due to boycotts or droughts, everyone freaks out. Think about the national dairy shortage of the 1970s.

[Ben Bolan]

Ooh. That's when all dairy product prices across the board shot up by 30%. Right?

[Alex French]

Exactly. The government intervened, prices plummeted, and in came President Jimmy Carter to make another bailout, pouring money, like milk, you could say, into the industry. From 1977 to 1981, this new policy put $2 billion of subsidies into massive.

[Ben Bolan]

Milk, which was great in the short term, but without sounding like a dairy Debbie Downer, Was this an overcorrection? Did we maybe push the pendulum too far?

[Alex French]

Yeah, this may be the case. Farmers knew they could produce as much as possible. They were financially motivated to do so, because whatever wasn't sold the regular way would end up being bought by the government at stabilized, predictable prices.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, oh, I got a presidential voice for this. Picture it. My fellow Americans, we are rich in most smirk and milk.

[Alex French]

Man. Not bad. 7 out of 10.

[Ben Bolan]

You're a tough crowd, man. But again, we see the old issue arise. Now, the US has all this milk with no real market demand for it, but they've paid in full and don't want to be ass out on the deal. Can we say that utterly out like a.

[Alex French]

You're being utterly ridiculous.

[Ben Bolan]

Okay, all right. I mean, fair enough. But you see the problem, the dilemma of having all this milk. So what do we do with it? We make cheese.

[Alex French]

That's right. It's the 1980s. And here we see the rise of government cheese.

[Ben Bolan]

Ah, yes, government cheese bought and stored by the Commodity Credit Corporation from earlier.

[Alex French]

And the public, to be clear, didn't necessarily love this idea. Some folks in the US Saw this as a slap in the face. Think about it. You're going hungry and your own government has this crazy stockpile of food.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, I get it. You get it. We can all understand that. As a result of public, or perhaps manufactured outcry, then President Ronald Reagan both cut the US Food stamp budget and rolled out government cheese for direct distribution. Back in 1982, under the auspice of the USDA, this was touted as a panacea for hunger. Sort of a two birds with one brie situation. Does that work? Does that work? Okay, so they're addressing hunger while also ensuring the continuation of this industry.

[Alex French]

Again, we've got the supply, we find the demand. Reagan's Agriculture and Food act of 1981 both acknowledged the massive stockpile of cheese and at the same time decreed it would be distributed to the needy and nonprofit organizations. Any state that asked would get £30 million of cheese.

[Ben Bolan]

What?

[Alex French]

Take that, Jackson. This also guaranteed that the US Would continue supporting Big Parma.

[Ben Bolan]

So it goes. That same year, 1981, the Secretary of Agriculture, John R. Block, told reporters, referring to all the these pounds of cheese, he said, We've got 60 million of these that the government owns. It's moldy, it's deteriorating, we can't find a market for it, we can't sell it, and we're looking to give some of it away.

[Alex French]

We're off to the races here. Let's talk economy of scale, which is just a fancy term meaning prices go down when you have more output and better infrastructure.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, that's why, for example, a single guy making shoes by hand is almost always going to have to sell his shoes for more than the big companies making thousands of shoes every day.

[Alex French]

And we saw this with the US dairy industry. Back in 1987, the median dairy farm had 80 cows or fewer. Today, it's about 900. Economies of scale have driven costs down and bolstered output.

[Ben Bolan]

And on top of that, the average dairy cow is producing more milk than ever, thanks to some, at times sinister decisions on breeding and diet. We've got government cheese, we've got dairy products. As cheese infiltrated as possible into the military supply chain, and improvements in global trade mean we can ship stuff fast, finding that ever elusive demand in markets countries and continents away.

[Alex French]

And this gets us to your original question. How did cheese get in everything? Why was the demand always There. Or was it, to some degree, manufactured?

[Ben Bolan]

Right. Yeah. Alex, did Big Cheese win the game or did someone rig it?

[Alex French]

I imagine saying rigged might put some people off. Spoil their milk, so to say. But it's a valid question.

[Ben Bolan]

And we can also see why people might look askance at this. But at the same time, we can argue this is, as Homer Simpson would have said in Biggening Opportunities. We're taking dairy products outside of the U.S. we're leveraging trade and nonprofits to move milk and cheese around the world. Plus, of course, with each step, we're keeping domestic farmers in business.

[Alex French]

Which all sounds great until that global market collapses an ocean away. The nation of China grappled with its own problems when demand for dairy products in the Chinese market imploded. Which has happened since several times, including just this year in 2024. Yet again, Uncle Sam found itself in a pickle.

[Ben Bolan]

Holy. Is this the part?

[Alex French]

This is the answer to the question, Sort of.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, yeah. Alex, can we please do a little trade industry ad?

[Alex French]

I don't see why not.

[Dana Zarin]

Real milk has eight times more protein than almond milk. Real milk has naturally occurring calcium. Almond milk doesn't. And it also only has 2% almond, which looks like this. What's the other 98%?

[Ben Bolan]

Get real.

[Dana Zarin]

Get naturally nutritious real milk.

[Ben Bolan]

So that's bonkers, right? We got ads for not a specific brand of a thing. Just the general idea of milk.

[Alex French]

And marketing groups for the general idea of milk had already popped up pretty early in the 20th century. There are plenty of other examples of as well. Beef. Pork. You get it. For quite some time, the United States has disguised national security through a proxy program of interdependent quasi private industries attempting to extol the virtues of a given product. Instead of telling the American public the truth. Come on, man. This is my part.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, it's just, you know, it's. People need to know.

[Alex French]

Well, are we doing the show?

[Ben Bolan]

Absolutely, dude. We are the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern of this whole cheese thing.

[Alex French]

The Molder and Scully.

[Ben Bolan]

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[Dana Zarin]

This message is sponsored by Greenlight. We all know that old saying about teaching Amanda Fish. And as parents, we want our kids to learn the things that will set them up for success. So this holiday season, give kids money skills that will last well beyond 2024 with Greenlight. Greenlight is a debit card and money app made for families where kids learn how to save, invest, and spend wisely with parental controls built in. Sign up [e-mail] iheart greenlight.com iheart.

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[Alex French]

Yeah. There were 1.3 billion pounds of cheese in cold storage, in no small part due to two separate federal announcements that the US would purchase something like $20 million worth of dairy surplus for distribution to food pantries.

[Ben Bolan]

Because we have to keep it going.

[Alex French]

Because someone says we have to keep it going. And that someone is the dairy farmers.

[Ben Bolan]

It's crazy that you seriously have never drank a glass of milk.

[Alex French]

Never. Not a once. It's gross. Moving on, moving on. In an August 2016 letter, the National Milk Producers Federation begged the USDA for $150 million. Out. Ben, have you ever heard of Dairy Management, Incorporated?

[Ben Bolan]

Do I. Do I do a voice here? Or do we just roll with it?

[Alex French]

All right, fine. It's a soft one. You know about dmi. I know about dmi. And we're both hoping you listening along at home will learn a little bit about it, too.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. Yeah. Without getting into the milkweeds, folks, there are trade organizations, a concentrated group of government and private industry concerns, all actively working right now as we record to make sure the production of dairy products meets some sort of demand. And if we cannot find that demand naturally, we will.

[Alex French]

We will make it an inherently American approach to the problem.

[Ben Bolan]

And this is where we enter that story of Dairy Management Incorporated. It's fair to say that a lot of people have never heard of this.

[Alex French]

Group, which is a shame, because they're one of our key Characters DMI is a trade association funded through the Dairy Promotion program, which is in turn funded by government regulations requiring dairy farmers to pay $3.31 per metric ton on all milk produced and marketed in the 48 contiguous states. DMI is the beating heart of Big.

[Ben Bolan]

Parma, and DMI was originally created by the US Department of Agriculture way back in 1990. Wheels within cheese Wheels, indeed. This already sounds like a bunch of odd companies passing money around, maybe on the sly, but to be fair, they won't describe themselves as odd nor sinister. We have to remember there are no quote unquote, bad guys in the story.

[Alex French]

But have you noticed then that, like in movies these days, the only people who drink milk are, like, weird villains and little kids? Anyway, I would absolutely describe the stuffed crust pizza as a crime against gastronomy.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, what's that old line? History is written by the victors, and.

[Alex French]

We'Re still in the turn of history here. We reached out to multiple sources for answers at dmi. On a phone call, I told the media relations flack with the company that we wanted to learn about dairy as an industry that innovates about the history of dmi, about their work with the big fast food chains, about the Got Milk campaign, and their response was a little, I don't know, disingenuous.

[Dana Zarin]

Dear Alex, unfortunately we don't have anyone who'd be a good fit to answer.

[Ben Bolan]

Questions on all the topics you mention you'd like to include in this upcoming episode. Well, Alex, if that doesn't sound like a clandestine cabal of cheese operatives, I don't know what does. We do know DMI is one of our most easily identifiable. Gosh, I don't want to say culprits, but they're the collective protagonist for getting cheese into more American food products.

[Alex French]

Yep, They've worked with McDonald's, Pizza Hut, Wendy's, Taco Bell, you name it. If there's a way of injecting cheese into something, they've probably invented it.

[Ben Bolan]

There's another thing all of us listening along need to know. Why does this work so successfully? I would posit the answer is found in evolution. Humans evolved to prize high fat, unctuous foodstuffs, and cheese fits the bill. But cheese is definitely not perfect. Surprisingly enough, some of the most strident criticisms of Big Parma come from physicians.

[Alex French]

And we have to be upfront about this. Cheese is an ancient art, but it does have some potentially dangerous effects on your health. Obesity is an epidemic in the United States and abroad. Milk and other dairy products are the top source of saturated fat in the American diet contributing to heart disease, type 2 diabetes and Alzheimer's. Studies have also linked dairy to an increased risk of breast, ovarian and prostate cancers. There's a whole bunch of good stuff in milk. Calcium, protein, vitamin D, for instance. But it's not like dairy is the only source for those things.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, and DMI in particular has a lot long history of cheese filtration. By their own account, this organization works with leading restaurant chains, grocery stores like Kroger, and food manufacturers like General Mills. All of whom collectively invest hundreds of millions of dollars in marketing efforts and advertising campaigns to promote their dairy centric menu items.

[Alex French]

The McDonald's, McFlurry, the Five Cheese Mac and Cheese at Domino's. A grandma style pizza Pizza Hut that eliminated crust so cheese could be piled all the way to the outer margins of the pie.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, yeah. The result, folks, through these various. And Alex, I'm not yet calling it a proxy war. Through these proxy entities, DMI has moved an astonishing 7.5 billion pounds of dairy. And you know what, man, this is aggravating because I can't even get away with a late fee. At the library.

[Alex French]

We mentioned the high level version of this. Let's get to the nitty gritty. These cheese drenched culinary Frankensteins aren't the result of organic supply and demand.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, the more we learn about it, the less DMI seems like a trade group and the more it seems like a think tank. Rand Corporation style.

[Alex French]

But with Cheddar 100%, DMI employs a panoply of dairy scientists working not just hand in hand, but on site with like their own offices at the headquarters of your favorite fast food joints. Eternally brainstorming new ways to inundate the American and international diet with dairy product. Cheese in particular.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, and this is not just some kind of disturbing campfire story, Alex. You actually, actually did some digging into a specific dairy scientist over at dmi.

[Alex French]

Yeah. Yeah. So late one night, I trawled the Internet looking for evidence of DMI dirty work, and I stumbled on this video of a cheese operative named Mike Cerisi doing an interview about his gig working in the Taco Bell innovation kitchen.

[Ben Bolan]

Alex, you're making it sound like you're about to unveil the smoking gun that proves a global cheese spiracy.

[Alex French]

More like a smoking Gouda bend. The whole video is a little off putting, if I'm being honest. Cerisi is this guy talking about how glorious it is being embedded as a dairy operative in a top American food chain, pumping what I would call harmful ingredients into foods so that the dairy industry can turn bigger profits.

[Ben Bolan]

At one point, the interviewer asked Ceresi about some of the wins he's had over the years.

[Alex French]

My name is Mike Tsurisi. I'm a dairy scientist with DMI. I've been working in research and development for about 15 years now, mostly focused on dairy science. And I first joined DMI back in 2013, where I had the amazing opportunity to join the Taco Bell team on behalf of dmi, working in their test kitchen and developing new products for the menu. We've had some really great successful launches over the year. Just a couple that come to mind is the Quesalupa. That was a truly innovative product. It was a cheese stuffed shell, had a massive media promotion behind it. We actually had a TV ad that ran during the super bowl, so that was just super exciting.

[Ben Bolan]

Folks, we're an audio show, so it's important for you to know. While Cerese is saying all of these things, you just heard a bunch of information cards are popping onto the screen and the stats look bonkers. Before DMI support, tacos contained about a quarter of an ounce of cheese. Thanks to this partnership, new food items contain about five to ten times more cheese.

[Alex French]

The discussion leads to the beverage category.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. Alex, have you ever had a Pineapple Whip or the Baja Blast Colada?

[Alex French]

I have not, but I do know that Taco Bell is owned by Pepsi Co. And the Pineapple Whip was their first dairy drink. But the way Cerisi talks about the process of reverse engineering those drinks is kind of, I don't know, alarming. Here he is again. We also have a new dairy dessert beverage that's testing in market, which we're really excited about.

[Ben Bolan]

I'm getting diabetes just thinking about this one. Surely it was discontinued.

[Alex French]

You're correct. In fact, we could do an entire episode on discontinued fast food products. But both the Pineapple Whip and the grilled cheese burrito were 100% the result of DMI intervention. How do we get more dairy in more things?

[Ben Bolan]

You know, it's weird, isn't it? Just philosophically, it is a bizarre proposition. Creating demand, forcing demand, where a natural demand does not exist. I'll say it. It feels like a good time for some serious questions.

[Alex French]

Yeah. You know, this is where I start to have problems, too. The idea of injecting cheese into something not because it enhances the flavor or healthfulness of the food, but because it drives up profits for the dairy industry. In this way, Big Parma bears an Alarming resemblance to the tobacco or liquor industries. Knowing that you're creating a product that's going to make people fat and sick and doing it anyway. And at the same time, Big Parma covers its cellulite pocked rear end to seem like, you know, the good guys by forming strategic partnerships with the Mayo Clinic too. And I'm quoting here. Improve public health and advance dairy's benefits, including the role full fat dairy may play in cardiovascular and metabolic conditions. That's sort of like, you know, Exxon Mobil or British Petroleum claiming to do good by researching climate change.

[Ben Bolan]

The Mayo Clinic, huh?

[Alex French]

Yes.

[Ben Bolan]

Alex, there's gotta be a cheese and mayo joke in here somewhere, right?

[Alex French]

Yeah. We're talking about a serious thing then.

[Ben Bolan]

Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. But what if it's like, what if we do a thing where people buy mayonnaise and cheese together?

[Alex French]

Gross, dude.

[Ben Bolan]

I know, but I'm saying what if it's like you buy another condiment and they just start putting cheese in there? Ketchi up. Two other examples.

[Alex French]

Ben, this is a very special episode.

[Ben Bolan]

Okay, okay.

[Alex French]

Seriously, man. You asked us to look into it and we're doing puns now? At the end of a pretty damning investigation into an extremely grave issue.

[Ben Bolan]

All right, all right. Yes, I hear you.

[Alex French]

Focus.

[Ben Bolan]

All right.

[Alex French]

Okay.

[Ben Bolan]

Focusing and jesting aside, Alex, I do understand what you're saying. I'm still going to eat cheese, though. Like, a lot of it. Are you and I cool? Mm.

[Alex French]

I guess. I mean, like, I would expect nothing less. And millions of Americans have made the same choice, including me.

[Ben Bolan]

Agreed. And whether we're talking about dairy fanatics or strict vegans who don't eat anything that cast a shadow, it's crucial to understand how a phenomenon like this occurs. And perhaps more importantly, why. Alex, would you say it's fair to call this a legit conspiracy?

[Alex French]

I'd say we should call it a cheese piracy.

[Ben Bolan]

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[Alex French]

Seek terms and conditions.

[Dana Zarin]

This message is sponsored by Greenlight. We all know that old saying about teaching a man to fish. And as parents, we want our kids to learn the things that will set them up for success. So this holiday season, give kids money skills that will last well beyond 2024 with Greenlight. Greenlight is a debit card and money app made for families where kids learn how to save, invest and spend wisely with parental controls built in. Sign up [e-mail] iheart greenlight.com iheart Good sleep should come naturally and with a new Natural Hybrid mattress, it can. A collaboration between Leesa and West Elm, the Natural Hybrid is expertly crafted from natural latex, natural wool and certified safe foams to elevate your sleep sanctuary and support a greener tomorrow. Breathable organic cotton and moisture wicking Joma wool consistently provide cool and comfortable slumber. Every purchase helps helps fuel Lisa's work with shelters and those in need. Visit Lisa.com to learn more. That's L E-E-S A.com.

[Jason English]

Very Special Episodes is made by some very special people. This show is hosted by Dana Schwartz, Zarin Burnett and Jason English. Today's episode was written and hosted by very special guest stars, Ben Bolan. I'm Alex French. Our producer is Josh Fisher. Editing and sound design by Chris Childs Additional editing by Mary Dew Mixing and mastering by Behead Frazier Original Music by Elise McCoy show logo by Lucy Quintanilla. Our executive producer is Jason English. If you'd like to email the show, you can reach us atveryspecial episodesmail.com to get more Ben Bolan in your life, check out Stuff They Don't Want yout to Know or ridiculous history. Alex French's new company is called FeatureWell Productions. You'll be hearing a lot from them in the new year. We'll be back with the first of our holiday episodes next week. Excited for that? Very Special Episodes is a production of iHeart podcasts.

[Ben Bolan]

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[Alex French]

Uber Eats will be dropping new deals each week all season long. Uber Eats official on demand delivery partner of the NFL. Order now. Terms and conditions apply. See app for details. Hate has been winning for too long. It's at an all time high and.

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[Alex French]

Hate all over this country.

[Ben Bolan]

To turn the tide, we have to stand together as a united team.

[Alex French]

We can change the momentum.

[Ben Bolan]

It's time to take a time out Against Hate. Visit StandUpToolHate.org to help.

[Alex French]

Join us in calling for a hashtag TimeOutAgainstHate by following OT's UpWithHate or posting the Blue Square emoji.

[Dana Zarin]

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