Christmas Traditions Are So Incredibly Weird!

Summary

Ridiculous History Podcast Summary

Episode: Christmas Traditions Are So Incredibly Weird!
Hosts: Ben Bowlin, Noel Brown
Super Producer: Max Williams
Date: December 18, 2025

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Episode Overview

This festive Ridiculous History episode sees Ben, Noel, and Super Producer Max Williams diving into the wacky, wonderful, and at times bizarre history of global Christmas traditions. From burning straw goats and pooping logs to racketeering carolers and even sausage-cooking Finnish saunas, the crew explores an international grab-bag of holiday oddities. Their goal: Showcase how strange, sometimes dark, always surprising the roots of these customs are—and how Christmas, for all its tinsel and cheer, is a tradition that borrows wildly across time and culture.

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1. The Scandinavian Yule Goat and Burning Effigies

Timestamp: 07:22–13:13

• Origin & Description:
  The Yule goat tradition, common in Scandinavia, traces back to pre-Christian paganism, possibly inspired by the Norse god Thor, whose chariot was pulled by goats (08:40).

  “So we build a goat effigy out of straw and then we burn it. This is probably connected to the worship of a Norse God...His name is Thor.” — Ben (08:28)

• Modern Celebrations:

  • In Gävle, Sweden, a massive straw Yule Goat is built (and often burned by pranksters).
  • In Finland, the Joulupukki, or Christmas Goat, appears in caroling traditions—participants wear goat masks and perform at doorsteps for treats.
  • The hosts joke about how these traditions blend performance, anonymity, and reward, paralleling both Christmas and Halloween.

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2. The Lord of Misrule and King-for-a-Day Traditions

Timestamp: 13:02–15:28

• Medieval England & Scotland:

  • A commoner dubbed “Lord of Misrule” (or “Abbot of Unreason”) temporarily led holiday festivities, overseeing revelry.

  “It is something that carried on into the Tudor era and Elizabethan era...” — Noel (15:13)

  • Similar “king for a day” motifs survive in the King Cake at Mardi Gras and the sixpence in British figgy pudding.

• Saturnalia Connections:

  • These role-reversing customs echo Saturnalia, the Roman winter festival.

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3. Caroling and Wassail – From Cheer to Highjinks

Timestamp: 15:45–28:44

• Wassailing Origins:
  “Caroling” (or “wassailing”) started in the 1200s not as singing, but as neighbors wishing each other good cheer—sometimes with demands for food or drink (22:58).

• The Shakedown Side:

  • Hosts draw parallels between traditional caroling and trick-or-treating:

    “We’re about how caroling used to be kind of more of a shakedown job...kids would go or young men would go knock on doors...sing and then be like, now you owe us stuff.” — Max (24:26)

  • Historic reports (Salem, 1679): Kids threw “stones, bones, and other things” at uncooperative households, even damaging property (26:09).

  • “Give treats or get tricks. It’s the original version of F A F O.” — Ben (25:40)

• Wassail:

  • Explained as a medieval spiced wine/punch, thick and fortified—“liquid fruitcake” (24:28).

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4. Christmas Spider Legends & The Origin of Tinsel

Timestamp: 30:11–35:29

• Ukrainian and German Folklore:

  • Story: Destitute mother can’t decorate her tree, but spiders spin webs overnight that, come morning, are magically transformed into gold and silver threads (31:18).
  • Possible origin of tinsel on Christmas trees.

• Deeper Meanings:

  • Spiders regarded in some cultures as good luck; the legend often associated with charity, magic, and the transformation of hardship into plenty.
  • Several versions exist: Some have Santa or Jesus transforming the webs, some center the spider and a peasant exchanging kindness.

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5. Finnish Sauna Traditions: Cooking in the Heat

Timestamp: 41:44–45:13

• Sauna Culture:

  • On Christmas Eve and during the cold months, Finnish families gather in saunas for both warmth and bonding.

  • A culinary twist: kiuas makkara (“stove sausage”)—sausages are cooked right in the sauna with onions and beer for holiday feasts (42:57).

    “What it means is stove sausage, but it is sausages that people traditionally cook in the sauna.” — Max (43:22)

  • Finland boasts around 3 million saunas for just 5.5 million people (44:34).

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6. Burning the Devil in Guatemala

Timestamp: 45:13–47:35

• La Quema del Diablo:
  • On December 7, Guatemalans burn effigies of the devil made from household trash, marking the triumph of good over evil and cleansing before the Feast of the Immaculate Conception (45:58).
  • Dates back to the 1500s, reflecting syncretism of Catholic and indigenous rituals.

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7. The Catalonian Pooping Log and Friend

Timestamp: 48:04–53:23

• Caga Tió & El Caganer:

  • In Catalonia, children care for an anthropomorphic log, “Tió de Nadal” (Christmas Log), covering it with a blanket and feeding it treats. On Christmas Eve, they beat it with sticks while singing songs to make it “poop” presents and sweets (51:20).

  • Closely related is El Caganer—a small figurine of a squatting man pooping, hidden in nativity scenes for luck and to fertilize the land.

  “You also have to abuse this poor guy, Tio de nadal to get your wishes...And if you don’t want to, I will hit you with a stick, Tio.” — Ben (52:07) “It’s full of contradictions, this tale.” — Noel (53:23)

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8. Night of the Radishes & Creepy Christmas Characters

Timestamp: 54:04–56:13

• Mexico:

  • Night of the Radishes – Oaxaca’s December 23rd event features elaborate radish carvings depicting nativity and folklore scenes.

    “It’s a day in Mexico...dedicated to carving radishes into cool holiday-themed scenes.” — Ben (54:34)

• Germany’s Hans Trapp:

  • Scarecrow monster (Hans Trapp) used as a Christmas warning against bad behavior, another in the vein of dark Christmas enforcers like Krampus and Belsnickel.

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9. Overarching Themes & Reflections

• Pagan Roots:
  The majority of “classic” Christmas traditions have deep pagan, pre-Christian, or region-specific origins.

  “All the stuff you love about Christmas comes from somewhere else, to be quite honest.” — Ben (15:28)

• Reward and Punishment:
  Across cultures, Christmas rites often blend celebration with veiled threats: behave or face consequences from supernatural holiday figures.

• Community & Survival:
  Many practices involve communal eating, singing, and rituals to bring luck, warmth, or bounty during winter’s darkest days.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Banter

• On Why Traditions Are So Weird:

  “Your celebration of Christmas—or the end of the year—your mileage is going to vary based on where you’re located and what your family likes to do.” — Ben (28:44)

• On the Crossroads of Nice and Naughty:

  “There’s a lot of these somewhat esoteric Christmas myths that always involve either being rewarded with candy or punished with pain. Minor torture.” — Noel (11:28)

• Ben, after the Caga Tió segment:

  “We’re kind of raising children to take care of a thing and then betray it, which is wild.” (53:23)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 07:22 – Scandinavian Yule Goat
• 13:02 – Lord of Misrule/King Cake
• 15:45 – Caroling, Wassail, and Shakedown Traditions
• 30:11 – Christmas Spider and Tinsel Origin
• 41:44 – Finnish Sauna Sausage
• 45:13 – La Quema del Diablo in Guatemala
• 48:04 – Catalonia’s Pooping Log and Caganer
• 54:04 – Night of the Radishes & Spooky Christmas
• 56:10 – Reflections and Wrap-up

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Final Thoughts

Ben, Noel, and Max deliver an irreverent, insightful, and thoroughly entertaining survey of Christmas’s wildest corners. If you thought Christmas was all about sleigh bells and silent nights, this episode will have you reconsidering—while appreciating just how deeply weird and wonderful our holiday traditions can be.

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For further odd holiday lore, check out previous Ridiculous History episodes on Krampus, Yule Lads, and Saturnalia. Happy Holidays, however you celebrate!

Transcript

[A]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartradio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you as always so much for joining us today. Let's give a quick shout out to the man, the myth, the legend, our own KRAMPUS super producer, Mr. Max Williams. Woo.

[B]

You can put me in a mold and cook me in a sauna.

[C]

Bit of a bel schnickel. You always whipping kids with reeds.

[A]

He's a bit of a crinkling Chris.

[C]

He's a cheerful holiday creature. None of that holiday darkness resides in our boy Max.

[A]

Right. And we also want to make space for of course, the real Krampus of our show, Jonathan Strickland, AKA the Quizzter, who was not able to appear for this recording as he is busy trying to ruin the holiday experience of children.

[B]

We also didn't invite him.

[A]

We lightly implied that he could show up and he said he's busy because there are Too many happy 4 year olds on the planet. And that's classic Jonathan. That's classic Noel Brown. They would call me Ben in parts of the world.

[C]

Be classic Ben Prime.

[A]

Ben Prime. Thank you, Noel, I appreciate that. I love that one. We also decided here at the end of the calendar year to explore Christmas traditions that may be unfamiliar to a lot of our fellow religious ridiculous historians in the audience tonight. So we talked previously at length about the Yule lads. We talked about other different holiday traditions that might seem odd to outsiders. I think we're going to round robin this one. I propose that we go back and forth with cool stuff. Now let's imagine everybody hearing this right before Christmas for those who celebrate. Max, you gotta know that Noel and I are working on a thing for our sister show called the Elf in the Shelf. On the Shelf. Are you familiar with this Elf on the Shelf?

[B]

I've heard about it. I know people who have done it or whatnot. I don't really even know what it is.

[C]

Kids are into it. Yeah, it sort of represents the surveillance state.

[B]

Yeah, it feels weird like you just put an elf on a shelf or something. It feels like. Remember that, that game you do as like a teenager or early twenties when you'd ice somebody, you put a smearing off ice somewhere and they have to chug it.

[C]

No, no, I don't think that's a thing anybody, I mean, I would have.

[A]

Never heard of that, man.

[B]

What the.

[C]

Oh my God, that's amazing.

[A]

Wait, wait, walk us through it.

[B]

Yeah, I guess, I guess. I don't know. I had. I had a group of friends that, you know, you'd be hanging out and you'd walk in a room and they would just make me a Smirnoff Ice put in a weird place. And you know, Smirnoff Ices are disgusting. And if you found it in that weird place, you had to drop your knees and ch.

[A]

What.

[C]

What a life you've led.

[A]

Max, are you okay?

[B]

I had a lot. I I. After doing that a number of times, probably. No, I I did not like it. I did not like it at all. I I had a couple friends who.

[D]

Went and joined me.

[B]

I do not like it. And really liked frats.

[C]

I would have also accepted a Zima on the shelf. Remember Zima?

[A]

Wasn't that. I mean, at that point, if you're lowering the bar, you know, if we're playing, if we're playing limbo at at that level, then why not a Zima?

[E]

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[A]

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[F]

Hi Kyle, could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks.

[A]

Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link.

[F]

But there was no link. There was no business plan. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. I'm Evan Ratliff here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age. Listen as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people. Check out the second season of my podcast Shell Game on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[C]

So we're kind of going to do a bit of a Christmas listicle that's somewhat connected to bizarro, sometime terrifying holiday traditions. A little bit of a deeper cut version. We're doing some kind of follow ups for some things that we've talked about in the past as well. But geez, Ben, how do we start off? We've got some good ones between the three of us.

[A]

Yeah, we do. And again, Noel, you and I cannot thank super producer Max enough for joining us on this strange endeavor. The first thing that we wanted to set out right, we've established our thesis. Your local Christmas celebrations may not be the same as celebrations in other parts of the world. Like, here's our entry point. So in Thanksgiving, for instance, a lot of people in the United States will cook a turkey, right? Whereas people in the United Kingdom may cook a goose. One thing that has been very popular for quite some time in Scandinavia is the idea of a goat. The Yule goat. You guys know about this one?

[C]

I don't know about the Yule goat, Ben. I don't know that I've ever really thought of a goat being connected with the holidays. Perhaps a lamb, but not a goat.

[A]

Yeah, I like your point about lamb.

[C]

Goats usually a bit of an infernal stand in thinking of the Black Philip of it all. Or like the, you know, the. The cloven hooves of Satan.

[A]

So the origins of the Yule goat are unclear. However, it is now in that part of the world a Christmas tradition. It does come from paganism. Please do check out our previous episodes on our sister show about the surprisingly non Christian origins of Christmas, which is quite a tongue twister. Here's the idea. It's Christmas time here in Scandinavia. We're in Scandinavia and we are celebrating the end of the year in some way. So we build a goat effigy out of straw and then we burn it. This is probably connected to the worship of a Norse God who's been really blowing up in Marvel movies and comic books. His name is Thor.

[C]

Heard of him. Big muscly guy with a tiny hammer that apparently is quite heavy.

[A]

Yes. Only the worthy can lift it.

[C]

Yeah, sort of. Sword in the stone rules.

[A]

Very much so.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's a nice connection. So this our buddy Thor, according to the lore, rode the sky in a chariot drawn by two. Wait for it. Goats.

[C]

Seems like he could have done better, but I assume they were magical goats, at least as far as the Thor lore is concerned.

[A]

Yeah, ghosts were way more of a flex back at this time when they were writing these myths. And it goes back to pre Christian beliefs, way older than Christianity. The last sheaf of grain that you bundled up in your harvest was thought to be the magical collection of grain. It was the spirit of harvest. And they would call it yulbocket or the yule goat. And so, as we know, there's a thing called Julboking. J U L E V U K K I N G. Got it.

[C]

This is where you do the thing. Okay.

[A]

That's where you do it. So you're a person. We're celebrating this. We're in Scandinavia. We're people who don mask and costumes. We call ourselves yulpukars and we go door to door and our neighbors say, let me figure out who's under that mask. And we're singing Christmas carols. We're not breaking into the place. Which will come up later in the show. And then after we sing for them, the folks will reward us with candy if they can't identify us.

[C]

You know, there's a lot of these somewhat esoteric Christmas myths that always involve either being rewarded with candy or punished with pain. Minor torture.

[A]

Naughty or nice.

[C]

Yeah, okay. Yeah. You know what? It is a naughty or nice thing. That also goes back to the whole, like, trick or treat thing. And a fun one that Max is going to talk to us about involving caroling. That makes it resemble trick or treating much more than one might associate.

[A]

Yeah, Break it In so the Yule goat to sew this up. It's a ritualistic folklore. It's kind of cool. If you. If you go to Finland, you will be able to talk to people about a word I can't pronounce. Joel Puki J O U L U P U K K I. It means Christmas goat. And I like the idea. You know, it's. It's what Caroline descends from in this case. In Finland, you dawn a goat costume and you do a little, like, show, like a busking show. And then in return for your performance, you get leftover Christmas food. Historically, this is very important for that part of the world where you can't grow, you know, radishes at certain times of the year.

[C]

Got it. So there's no. There's no actual goat. It's just a little bit of a goat effigy made of.

[A]

We do burn the goat. We burn, build and burn a good.

[C]

Like a wicker man kind of vibe. So very, very pagan. Okay. We love burning straw effigy and Ben. I was actually gonna bring this as one of my topics, but I think I'm just gonna do it by way of a quick aside. There's a film that came out, I think, in 2023 called the Lord of Misrule that is very clearly a bit of a wicker man ripoff. And the Lord of Misrule is a holiday tradition, I believe, in medieval times, where a pleb was assigned to be, like, appointed in Scotland as the, you know, essentially presiding over the Feast of Fools. Kind of like a king for a day type situation. A peasant or someone lower in the. The church religious order, you know, hierarchy, and appointed to be in charge and organize all of the Christmas events, which also included, like, being in charge of decorations, everything downtown tempor.

[A]

A temporary authority figure. Doesn't he have another name? Abbott.

[C]

Think the Abbot of Unreason.

[A]

Ah, the Lord of Misrule. The Abbot of Unreason, ladies and gentlemen, Jonathan Strickland. We'll call those out later. Yeah.

[C]

And also, if I'm not mistaken, the tradition of the Lord of Misrule, there's another thing that's sort of a holdover from that, this idea of like in a king cake, for example, during Mardi Gras, where if you get the baby, then that means you're king for a day. Or there's other Christmas. It's not Christmas. But there are other holiday festive baking traditions where if you get a sixpence in your figgy pudding, I believe in the United Kingdom, then that also Means something that you're some sort of special boy for a day. And that came from the tradition of, I believe, putting a sixpence or some other small trinket into a dish that was then consumed. And whoever got the little thing was awarded to be the lord of misrule.

[A]

Ah, yes. With consequences in the coming year. Right. Dating back to Saturnalia.

[C]

That's exactly right, Ben. I meant to bring that up. It is something that carried on into the Tudor era and Elizabethan era and, you know, more, I believe, in medieval eras as well. But it is another one of those pagan origin stories.

[A]

Yeah, we're going to be super conservative on this episode, folks. All the stuff you love about Christmas comes from somewhere else, to be quite honest. And I got to ask you guys, have any of us ever gone caroling?

[C]

Dear, I've been a wassailan I've been a wassailin I've been a wassailed I've been a wassailent.

[A]

It's true, Nolan. Ben. Yes, Max?

[C]

No, I think there was one time I went with some neighborhood folk when my mother was living in her neighborhood, and I played guitar. I accompanied the revelers on guitar. Most of the songs are really easy to play.

[A]

Yeah, you got the chords down. That's cool, man. It's a good time, Max. You're gonna have a good time when you do it, so long as you do not practice anything other than the current caroling or wassailing.

[B]

Yeah, you know, you can't hold me down. But before I dive into caroling, I do want to just quote a little something off of Wikipedia, which is this icing is a drinking game. An Internet meme that gained prominence in 2010 in which one guy steals a bottle of Smirnoff ice in which another person will find it. I've had this up for about 15 years.

[A]

You're like a moray eel, man. You bite in.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And also, like, you know, establishing mores that we were not aware of.

[A]

Da da da da da.

[C]

Max, I was not questioning whether it a real thing or not. It's just something that has absolutely not crossed my radar in all of my 40 something years of existence. So, yeah, meme behaviors. That's a relatively new thing.

[A]

And, Max, over the centuries that I have been required to be here, I have been aware of pranks like that. They pop up every so often. And if anything, man, I'm just glad that you're safe.

[B]

Me too. But you know what's also another horrifying beverage? Wassail.

[C]

So to, like, A fortified wine or is it sort of like a mead situation? It seems like you'd be thick.

[B]

So let's get to that.

[E]

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[G]

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[C]

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[G]

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[D]

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[A]

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[G]

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[C]

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[E]

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[G]

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[F]

Hi Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks.

[A]

Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link.

[F]

But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO CEO Sam Altman.

[C]

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[B]

Dollar company which would have been like unimaginable without AI.

[C]

And now will happen.

[F]

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[C]

Oh, hey Evan, good to have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses.

[F]

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[H]

Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionist History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. 35 years.

[A]

That's how long Elizabeth Senate's family waited for justice to occur. 35 long years.

[H]

I want to figure out why this case went on for as long as it did, why it took so many bizarre and unsettling turns along the way, and why, despite our best efforts to resolve suffering, we all too often make suffering worse.

[C]

He would say to himself, turn to.

[B]

The right, to the victim's family and apologize.

[C]

Turn to the left.

[D]

Turn.

[C]

Tell my family I love him. So he had this little practice.

[B]

To the right.

[C]

I'm sorry.

[B]

To the left.

[C]

I love you.

[H]

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[D]

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[B]

So I was doing a little research on the side thanks to the website Yesterday's America, which I'm referencing here with the article the Little Known History of the Caroling Tradition. So according to the article, caroling, or wassail as it's already been referenced, actually dates back to the 13th century, so the 1200s. But it wasn't always a Christmas tradition and it wasn't even always about singing. It was actually more about going around to people's houses and wishing them good cheer and warmth, like during the holidays, at least according to them, but according.

[A]

To the wholesome story. And I'm going to interject here because we want to get in front of our ridiculous historians who might be angry about this. It is kind of racketeering.

[B]

It is.

[C]

We will get to that.

[B]

We'll get to that.

[C]

What do you mean? It's like a bit of like a being a vacuum cleaner salesman, like going door to door.

[A]

Lot of holiday cheer you got over here.

[C]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

Sounds like you guys got some food. We'll do a little song.

[B]

But so I bring this up because this is actually where the beverage wassail comes from because part of the tradition is they bring this warm beverage to people to help keep them warm. I found what it was. It didn't sound very, very appetizing.

[A]

It's hit us with it. Hit us with it.

[B]

And figs. And it's a medieval spice drink. But it wasn't until.

[A]

So it's a liquid fruitcake kind of.

[B]

Yeah. But it wasn't until this gentleman by the name of St. Francis of Ass, Iissi Assisi, where he kind of, you know, merged them together. But that's not what we're really talking about today. We're going to talk about this tradition. And special thanks here to Amy Glover over at buzzfeed. In the article that a lot of us were referencing from today, we're about how caroling used to be kind of more of a shakedown job than anything, where basically kids would go or young men would go knock on doors of more well to do people and sing and then be like, now you owe us stuff. You owe us food or potatoes.

[A]

It's the old Version of running up to someone at a stoplight and non consensually cleaning their windshield.

[C]

It's also certainly got a lot in common with the more anarchistic, if that's a word version of trick or treating. You have delivered the delightful presence of your Halloween costume and for that you are owed. Because the whole idea is if you don't have a costume, you don't get any candy. But if you have a costume and you go for the candy, you don't get the candy. You might be do a trick.

[A]

Yeah. Give treats or get tricks. It's the original version of F A F O. Yeah.

[B]

And to like, you know, give reference to it. So like one of the lines that they had, they were saying would be we've come here to claim our right and if you don't open up your door, we'll lie flat on the floor.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Which is a weird. Which is a weird threat. I'm going to lie on your ground.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

It seems like it's. It's got some more sinister implications though if I'm not mistaken. Wasn't there pelting with rocks involved?

[A]

Yeah, I agree with Noel. Well, how far does this go? Like obviously the Halloween modern celebration of trick or treat is a sanitized descendant of these sorts of practices. So would the carolers actually throw stones? Would they actually engage in racketeering?

[B]

There are reports of this. So is referenced that there was a case in 1679 in 17 Salem where kids threw stones, bones and other things. They.

[A]

Stones, Bones and other things. That's the name of our upcoming album.

[B]

Right. And I'm just wondering like what type of bones? Like were these like animal bones or were these bones of previous landlords who had not given them potatoes? I'm just assuming that they were going for potatoes. And they would do this for about an hour and a half with, and I quote, little intermission, which is pretty impressive. That means you have to have a lot of stones and a decent bit of bones and they would destroy stuff like rip apart fences, break stone walls. At least in this case. And just a lot of things. And considering this is Salem, I'm assuming they were all tried for witches afterwards and burnt.

[A]

Yeah. Yep. And that's something we all agree is awesome. 10 10. No notes should have happened. He says. Sarc. This is nuts. Folks. If you are fortunate enough to be in an area of the world where people are coming up to your domicile and they're singing nice songs. Oh, Silent Night, oh Holy Night, whatever. Or Christmas Tree or Noel, what are some of the songs you and your.

[C]

Mom played, the classics. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like A Good King Winchoshloss, which has got a bit of a dark origin itself. Good King Winchester was apparently like. I think he was like drawn and quartered or like dismembered or something. But we're gonna skip that one for two.

[A]

It didn't end well, but.

[C]

No, no, it didn't. But you know all the GCD ones. And by that I mean the chords, the easy ones to play.

[A]

Three chords.

[C]

Yeah, for sure. You know, it's funny, man. I don't know if you guys saw this. I sent this around to a few friends the other day. The comedian in Brent Weinbach. I love Brent Weinbach. I like Brent Weinbach a lot too. And he did a bit where he says, if you wanna make a new Hanuk, just take any Christmas song and play it in a minor key.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Brent's a genius, by the way. He's super good at piano. He's an accomplished musician, sketch writer, stand up comedian. One of my favorite bits from our buddy Brent is when he talks about his time being a substitute teacher and how he thought he had it bad and he realized the children had it bad as well. But they made fun of him for the strangest things. They ran up to him and they would find something about his appearance that they would ridicule no matter what it was. So they would run up to Port Brent and I do believe it's a true story, and they would say, oh, hell no. Oh, hell no, Mr. Weinbach, look at his tight pants. They would wear baggy pants and they would run up to him and they'd say, oh, hell nah. Hell nah. Look at his baggy pants. Look at Mr. W's baggy pants. So you can't win. It's a Kobayashi Maru. And one of the things we're establishing here is that your celebration of Christmas or the end of the year, your mileage is going to vary based on where you're located and what your family likes to do. It might surprise a lot of us as we're talking about off air to learn that spider themed things can play a role in the most famous birthday celebration ever.

[C]

For sure. Yeah, I love a good. I don't know, we did the Halloween crossover, I guess, with the a little bit more chaotic caroling, a little more quid pro quo caroling, comparing it to trick or treating. And this kind of. This feels similar in that there's spiders involved. So this idea of a spider A Christmas spider or a yuletide spider being used as a decoration on Christmas trees, which is I think a little bit more popular in Ukraine and in parts of Germany and Eastern Europe. But there are several fables surrounding the idea of a Christmas spider. And there's some that conjecture that it is directly these, these tales are directly what led to the popularity of tinsel. So in one version of the story most often attributed to Ukraine and Germany, a widowed mother has a Christmas tree, but it does not have enough money to properly decorate it. So in true Cinderella style, the woodland creatures come to her aid. Specifically, maybe a little bit more of a Charlotte's web style friendly spiders who come and spin their elaborate webs all over this evergreen tree. But there's a deus ex machina element to it as well, because when the mother and her family wake up, rather than seeing spiders webs surrounding their bear barren Christmas tree, they see when the sunlight hits the tree that it magically. The sunlight by some accounts turns them into silver and gold threads, which again, you can put two and two together is kind of what you see in tinsel, at least the shiny various colors. They can be all kinds of colors. But that also was from that moment on when the family's fortune started to turn around. And I'm sure that we've all heard, and I know a lot of people are really scared of spiders, but they do often represent good luck. So you're not supposed to kill spiders because that's bad luck. But there are other versions of the story that attribute the Christmas miracle to Santa or even Jesus Christ himself, who reached down Vermont earlier. Always. Yeah, transformed those spiders webs into the gold and silver tencel like material. I guess they would have been actual precious metal threads that the good mother saw before her. There are some other versions involving a tree that grows from a pinecone out of doors. And this is kind of just a slightly different take on the one I already told. But this one just involves a tree growing outside, which I guess gives a little more access to the spiders who then cover the tree and cobwebs that are then transmogrified. Ben is that when things are alchemy is used to turn non precious things into precious metals.

[A]

Transmogrify is transformation with a tie on, you know, transubstantiation. The Catholic Church got in front of that one, so they kind of own that word. But I think we see what you're saying here, Noel, which is the idea that people are attempting to explain a thing and at some point over the Great game of telephone. The spider webs, or longer things became commodified and celebrated as tinsel, Right?

[C]

Yeah, that's exactly right, Ben. And it is a bit of a trope, as you see, because there are versions of it that you will see in other parts of the world. Scandinavia, Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Finland. And by the way, speaking of wassail, when I was just in Copenhagen, it was very, very cold, walking around in these Christmas markets. Something called gluhwein is very, very popular. And it is mulled wine. But that is basically what wassail is. It is a spiced, fortified kind of wine that is served hot. And it's glu wine literally translates to glow wine because it warms you up both physically and spiritually.

[A]

Yeah. Are you ever drinking wine and you think this stuff is too cold? It's room temperature. Also, it doesn't taste of potpourri.

[C]

What if it was more like soup?

[B]

I will jump in here, guys. The bar I worked at for a number of years, we did a bar, the Republic. Yeah. We did a mulled wine every. Every holiday season. And at first, people look weird, and then it was the most popular beverage we had ever.

[C]

People love it. People love a hot toddy.

[A]

People love a tradition. You know what I mean?

[C]

And really quickly, just one more version of the story that is a little different. This is, you know, you can. This is, again, that great historical game of telephone that you see often with reporting of actual history, but especially with myths and folklore. In this one, you've got one, a spider who's a mother spider, again with the Charlotte's web vibes. And then a peasant woman, and they essentially give gifts to one another, with the peasant woman allowing the spider and her family to live in the branches of their Christmas tree. And then the mother spider rewarding or paying it forward in turn by banding together with, presumably, her little ones and decorating the tree with gorgeous, shimmering webs. So there's no transmogrification in this version of the story.

[A]

Yeah, it's a pleasant peasant meeting a super wonderful spider, and they're exchanging charity, which is ultimately the parable of the holidays. But they don't get into a sauna, do they?

[C]

No, no, they don't. But we do have. What is it? Eggnog? Sauna. Is that a thing? Did I see that come through the.

[A]

Chat that we've talked about? Eggnog at length, folks.

[C]

But eggnog, sauna, that's two very different things.

[A]

Well, you know what I mean. Fortune favors the bold, right? That's how you impress people in Finland. Apparently you rock up to the sauna and you say, hey guys, I was gonna heat up this eggnog for you, but I figured we'd just sit here and then run outside and beat the Christ out of each other with fir branches.

[E]

Run a business and not thinking about radio. Think again. Because more people are listening to the radio and iHeart today than they were 20 years ago. And only iHeart broadcast radio connects with more Americans than TV, digital, social, any other media, even twice as many teens than TikTok. And that reach means everything. Just think about the universal marketing formula. The number of consumers who hear your message times the response rate equals the results. Now let's get those results growing for your business. Radio's here now more than ever. And iheart's leading the way. Think radio can help your business. Think iheart Streaming, podcasting and radio where the reach is real. Let us show [e-mail] that's iheartadvertising.com or call 844-844 iheart one more time.

[F]

Time.

[E]

Just call 844-844-Iheart and get radio working for you.

[G]

I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltson. My new podcast, what Happened in Nashville tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed.

[C]

We have some breaking news to tell you about. Tennessee's attorney general is suing a Nashville doctor.

[G]

In April 2024, a fertility clinic in Nashville shut down overnight and trapped behind locked doors were more than a thousand frozen embryos.

[D]

I was terrified.

[A]

Out of all of our journey, that.

[C]

Was the worst moment ever.

[G]

At that point, it didn't occur to me what fight was going to come to follow. But this story isn't just about a few families futures. It's about whether the promise of mon modern fertility care can be trusted at all.

[E]

It doesn't matter how much I fight, doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this. It doesn't matter how much justice we get. None of it's going to get me pregnant.

[G]

Listen to what happened in Nashville on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[F]

Hi Kyle, could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan, just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks.

[A]

Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link.

[F]

But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.

[B]

There's this betting pool for the first.

[C]

Year that there's a one person billion.

[B]

Dollar company which would have been like.

[F]

Un imaginable without AI.

[C]

And now will happen.

[F]

I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award winning podcast Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people.

[C]

Oh, hey Evan. Good to have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses.

[F]

Listen to Shell game on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

[H]

Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionist History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. 35 years.

[A]

That's how long Elizabeth Senate's family waited for justice to occur. 35 long years.

[H]

I want to figure out why this case went on for as long as it did, why it took so many bizarre and unsettling turns along the way, and why, despite our best efforts to resolve suffering, we all too often make suffering worse.

[C]

He would say to himself, turn to.

[B]

The right, to the victim's family and apologize. Turn to the left.

[C]

Tell my family I love him. So he had this little practice.

[B]

To the right.

[C]

I'm sorry.

[B]

To the left.

[C]

I love you.

[H]

From Revisionist History this is is the Alabama Murders. Listen to Revisionist History, the Alabama murders on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[D]

Hi, Dr. Laurie Santos from the Happiness Lab here. It's the season of Giving, which is why my podcast is partnering with GiveDirectly, a nonprofit that provides people in extreme poverty with the cash they need. This year, we're taking part in the Pods Fight Poverty campaign. And it's not just the Happiness Lab. Some of my favorite podcasters are also taking part. Think Jay Shetty from On Purpose, dan Harris from 10% Happier, and Dave Disteno from How God Works and more. Our goal this year is to raise $1 million, which will help over 700 families in Rwanda living in extreme poverty. Here's how it works. You donate to GiveDirectly and they put that cash directly into the hands of families in need, because those families know best what they need Whether it's buying livestock to fertilize their farm, paying school fees, or starting a small business. With that support, families can invest in their future and build lasting change. So join me and your favorite podcasters in the Pods Fight Poverty campaign. Head to GiveDirectly.org HappinessLab to learn more and make a contribution. And if you're a first time donor, giving multiplier will even match your gift. That's GiveDirectly.org HappinessLab to donate.

[A]

We did learn courtesy of our group chat that there is a sauna based tradition in Christmas. So let's go to none other than super producer, Mr. Max Williams. Max, what's going on with the sauna thing?

[C]

I think I may have transmogrified some topics together in my mind in the form of eggnog sauna. Because there is a tradition in Finland in sauna culture where they have sauna sausages and they cook them like whilst in the saunas.

[B]

And there actually is, in Korean saunas, sauna eggs. But supposedly they don't cook them in the sauna in Finland.

[A]

No, we don't cook them in the sauna.

[B]

Yeah, in Finland they do very much enjoy cooking things, but just in general. So sonic culture is. We've talked about this. We talked about this in our Sausage War episode from a number of years back. It's just kind of part of Finland culture in general, but especially around Christmas Eve, the colder months of the year, you are supposed to really enjoy a lot of time in the saunas. And I kind of want to talk about. Ben, you dropped the Finnish word earlier, so I'm going to try to drop one as well, which is okay. It is ku ash makara.

[A]

You nailed it. Max, why don't you start?

[C]

Did she just invoke an eldritch horror from the depths?

[A]

Yeah, it's like saying Cardi B's real name. It sounds like a spell. Max, can you spell that for us? Speaking of spells.

[B]

Absolutely. It is K I U A S M A K K A R A.

[C]

Ah, yes, of course, I should have known.

[B]

Yes. What it means is stove sausage, but it is sausages that people traditionally cook in the sauna. So it takes a little bit longer. But what you generally do is you put it in with some onions, pour some beer in there and just let it cook.

[C]

So presumably you're talking about the coals that you would pour water over to generate the steam. You're cooking them on that same little doodad. Yeah.

[A]

Also this is way more hygienic. Doesn't Seem that way and way less unusual than it sounds. I'm into it because to Max's earlier point, Noel, the idea of the sauna is normalized in Finnish culture such that if you move into an apartment building that doesn't have a sauna, then people are going to think. Think you've moved into the, you know, the Jacks, the Bandos. It's a cool tradition. Also, we have to. It's a hot tradition. Also we have to remember that it's pretty cold up there this time of year.

[B]

Also, according to the Google AI in Finland, Boo. In Finland, which has five and a half million people, there is estimated to be 3 million songs.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Sometimes you gotta get hot.

[C]

In Europe in general, I mean, you're gonna see a lot more of like a public pool culture too. Like in even urban areas you will see these very elaborate public bath houses. And that's true in other parts of the world as well, obviously. But it's very much a part of just day to day culture, whether kids, it's sort of like a YMCA thing, but there's just so many more of them and they're so clean and there are very much saunas and steam rooms.

[A]

Incorporated into these and immaculately maintained. To your point there, Noel, we also know that people pretty much are looking for excuses to ritualize community. Hanging out with friends and family, celebrating the beginning of one year, the ending of the other. This brings us to a lot of. I don't know if we're going to get to all of this, guys, but we've got to say it. You know, I used to live in Central America and one thing they do over there in Guatemala in specific is a thing called La Cabma del Diablo.

[C]

It's something of the devil.

[A]

Yeah, you nailed it. You nailed it. It's on December 7th, the whole town gets together and they essentially take out all the trash and all the stuff they want to get rid of and they make it into an effigy of the actual devil, right? Like what they see as Satan. And then they burn it to represent the triumph of good over evil. This dates way back to the 16th century, so the 1500s when the conquistadors came over, they established their capital in Antigua and they immediately began building convents, monasteries, churches, and telling the native people, hey, this is why we're doing all this mean stuff to you. We're giving everybody a break on December 7th because tomorrow, December 8th is the Feast of the Immaculate IT Conception. Shout out to Mary. And as a result, it became a tradition to Celebrate that big feast day on December 8th by lighting firecrackers and bonfires and lanterns and then picking up all the stuff you had at home and building a little devil figure and then burning it.

[C]

We're all about burning the effigies in today's episode. I love it, Ben. I'm here for it.

[A]

Hey, it's weird that it's a commonality between so many different cultures, is it not? I mean, the soda guys, you know, shout out to our Finnish ridiculous historians. If you could get away with burning it historically, you would have done the same thing. You know what I mean? That's just.

[C]

I feel that that's entirely likely.

[A]

Yeah. Or you could maybe poop. You could maybe bring poop into the conversation.

[C]

Well, that's what you've just done, Ben. And I'm glad because if I didn't have anything to follow that up with, I would feel quite foolish. But in fact, that was a glorious setup for a bit of a follow up on a character out of the Catalonia region of Spain that we've definitely talked about in the past. The Pooh Pokemon. The little pooping fellow. What's his name? Bentillo. That's the guy. Cagatio the pooper. Or the, in fact is another term that's used a lot. I'm a little foggy on the separation of these two versions. Cause there's definitely a version of Cagatio who is a little fellow who sits with his little butt, his pants down, his little butt hanging over the edge of something, like in the Nativity scene, and he's dropping a poo. And it came from the Catalonian tradition of trying to fertilize the Nativity to make it, you know, more conducive to growth and nurturing. And I don't know, it's a wild.

[A]

One, but reinforcing the soil. Right. For fertility.

[C]

I think there were plenty of farm animals around to do that though, so I'm not sure why they needed a little. A little puckish boy.

[A]

Well, you can't burn the goats forever. You'll run out of goats.

[C]

That's true. I don't know that we need to. That there is any version of the tradition that burns Cagatio.

[B]

But.

[C]

But we had talked about this guy and this notion that he was often hidden for children to find. Almost like an elf on the shelf. And in fact, there's a lot of elf on the shelf commonality with Cagatio because there's no surveillance state aspect.

[B]

A lot of icing commonality.

[A]

Da, da, da, da, da.

[C]

Okay, okay, I'll take that one, Max. I'll take that one with the facts. Who's that sneaking in the phone?

[A]

It's Max and he's full of knowledge.

[C]

Just for you right now. Here he comes.

[A]

It's Max with the facts. So we're back. Noel, I'm really interested in this elf on the shelf comparison because I think you're onto something. And we have talked about teal, which again is just the word, just means uncle. But I think we're talking about a log as a anthropomorphized thing. Right?

[C]

I do wanna walk back really quickly lest any Spanish speaking folks in the audience are screaming at their podcast device. There is El Caganer, which is who I was describing. That is a little dude that can be created in ornament form. He's wearing a little hat and some linen shirt and he's got his pants down, popping a squatty, taking a poop. You know, whatever. You can sit him on a ledge in the nativity scene. This is one version of the pooping tradition there in Catalonia, which of course the most well known part of that region would be Barcelona, which is the capital of the autonomous region of Catalonia, which is also known for its excellent seafood and cuisine. The one we're talking about now that I wanted to follow up with is cagatio, which is this Christmas log that is an anthropomorphized, cartoonish Christmas log that. That itself also poops.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, the idea.

[C]

He is a poop, but he also poops.

[A]

And you also have to abuse this poor guy, Tio de nadal to get your wishes or whatever. There's a whole song about it which we talked about. Cagatio avayeres itoro no cague. It translates to Max is going to be a lot of beeps. But the song translates one of the most popular variants to hazelnuts and nougats. Do not herrings, for they are too salty nougats, for they taste better. Almonds and nougats. And if you don't want to, I will hit you with a stick, Tio.

[C]

That's exactly right, Ben. That's one of the more popular and delightful versions of the song that the kids sing while walloping it with sticks. But they also are meant to take care of it. Almost like a Tamagotchi or like one of those like bags of flour that you were supposed to carry around in middle school as a proof that you could care for a baby.

[A]

I'm not letting that go. You had to carry around a Bag of flour.

[C]

I didn't. But it was a thing that I've known to have happen in school. And there's actually, I think there's an episode of some popular. You know what it was? I think it was Strangers with Candy. There's a version of that sort of middle school trope of taking care of a bag of flour. And then, of course, someone loses the bag of flour or drops the bag of flour, yada, yada, yada. But the point is, if you do take good care of this holiday log, you are rewarded. And you mentioned things like nougat spin. It goes on to say, do not poop herring because they're too salty. Only nougats because they taste better. Almonds and nougats. And if you don't want to poop, I will hit you with a stick. Poop Tio. So if you do a good job and you keep him warm, it's weird because you're supposed to keep him warm with a blanket, but you're also supposed to smack him around so that he keeps you warm. It's full of contradictions, this tale.

[A]

Yeah, we're kind of raising children to take care of a thing and then betray it, which is wild. But if you want to hear the lyrics in full or check out the song, all you have to do is look for Cagatio on YouTube or your listening platform of choice. We've got. Gosh, we've got so much more that we might have to save for next year, you guys. I. I know we didn't get to. Let's see some of our favorites. We didn't get to the Night of the Radishes. That might be 2026. La Noche de los Vlapatos, bro.

[C]

What if we combined that with the Night of the Cannibalistic Scarecrow? That's like some Goosebumps stuff right there. There's this like almost Dracula esque tale from Germany of this black knight in Germany did horrible things named Hans Trapp, who was then turned into a scarecrow who would haunt the knights devouring hapless children and used as sort of a teachable monster. Right? Like Belsnickel or the Krampus.

[A]

And for everybody here who knows a little bit of Spanish, the Night of the Radishes. The transl in English is it's a day in Mexico that is overwhelmingly dedicated to carving radishes into cool holiday themed scenes.

[C]

That's pretty fun because the earliest Jack o' Lanterns, I believe, were radishes or turnips. And on our other show Stuff they don't want you to know. We're always talking about digging up the rutabagas, and we do that year round. So this is what a good one to end on. Ben, honestly, I think this has been a fun listicle episode. A Christmas Listicle. A Christicle Listicle.

[A]

It's a Christmas gift from us to you. Even though not all of us celebrate Christmas, we know Christmas is whether or not you celebrate the famous birthday. It's a good time to get together with your friends, your loved ones. It's the end of the year. Auld Lane sign and all of that. We can't thank you enough for joining us here today, folks, and we cannot wait for you to join us for our future episode. Future Future 2026. If we're still able to do this, we're gonna get to the Night of the Radishes.

[C]

Night of the Radishes and maybe the Night of the Scarecrow. Because that actually, that Hans von Trapp's or Hans Trap story goes pretty deep into some. Some pretty dark territory. So maybe a fun slash dark one to do as well. Even in the new year. What do we care? We're not seasonally bound to any topic.

[A]

Well, we're just not punctual.

[C]

Good at it.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. 18. Yeah, 1897. By the way, that's how far the Night of the Radishes dates back. Because for anybody who is listening now, you know the radishes were not from north and South America. They are part of the great transfer. And we transfer now. The torch to you. Big, big thanks to our super producer, Mr. Max Williams. Big, big thanks to our composer, Alex Williams. Big thanks to. Oh, I don't want to do it yet, Noel. Let's say Christopher Haciotes. Eve's Jeffcoat. Here in spirit.

[C]

Here in Christmas spirit.

[A]

Here in Christmas spirit.

[B]

Who.

[A]

Who else? Oh, Big spinach. Bahamas. Copenhagen. That's you.

[C]

That's me. Jonathan Strickland, the. The quizter. Yeah, well, you know, it's Christmas, man.

[A]

We'll let him in. We'll let him in.

[C]

We are gonna take some time off with our families and loved ones and friends for the holidays, so you're gonna hear a few more classics. But we will see you refreshed and rejuvenated in the new year. We'll see you in next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[E]

This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea or osa.

[C]

In adults with obesity.

[E]

They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snored loudly, or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your.

[C]

Airway partially or completely collapses during sleep.

[E]

Which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don'tsleep on OSA.com this information is provided by Lilly, a medicine.

[C]

Company wishing the holidays could come early if you own or manage a business, they can with help from iHeartRadio, people are already shopping for their loved ones and hunting for deals wherever they can find them, including right here. They're listening to the radio. They're listening to podcasts. They could be listening to you. Don't wait for everyone else to kick off the holidays. Get your best season of the year up and running today. Call 844-844-IHeart or visit iheartadvertising.com.

[F]

Hi Kyle, could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks.

[A]

Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link.

[F]

But there was no link. There was no business plan. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. I'm Evan Ratliff, here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age. Listen as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people. Check out the second season of my podcast Shell Game on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

Explain the mash up that occurs around the OK Corral. How in the world is it Doc Holliday's business?

[C]

In episode 799 of the Meat Eater, Podcast, host Stephen Rinella talks with author and Old west historian Mark Lee Gardner.

[B]

Whenever there was a posse formed, Doc Holliday was always there to help out. So he's like, I'm sick. I'm half dead. I'd love to throw. So he just gets excited. When there's a posse, it's like your.

[A]

Buddy drew a tag, you know?

[C]

Listen to the meat eater podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I knew it was a bomb the second that it exploded. I felt it rip through me.

[A]

In season two of Rip Current, we.

[C]

Ask who tried to kill Judy Berry and why?

[A]

They were climbing trees and they were.

[C]

Sabotaging logging equipment in the woods she received death threats before the bombing. She received more threats after the bombing. I think that this is a deliberate.

[E]

Attempt to sabotage our movement.

[A]

Episodes of Rip Current Season 2 are available now.

[B]

Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

[A]

Or wherever you get your podcasts.

[E]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.