CLASSIC: Adidas Versus Puma: A Tale of Two Brothers

Summary

Episode Summary: "Adidas Versus Puma: A Tale of Two Brothers"

Ridiculous History dives deep into the fascinating and tumultuous history of two of the world's most iconic sneaker brands: Adidas and Puma. Hosted by Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown, this episode unpacks the bitter rivalry between the Dassler brothers, Adolf (Adi) and Rudolf (Rudi), whose familial conflicts gave rise to competing global enterprises. Through engaging storytelling and insightful analysis, Bowlin and Brown illuminate how personal animosity, historical contexts, and innovative breakthroughs shaped the sportswear industry.

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1. Setting the Stage: Herzogenauhrac, Germany

The story begins in the small Bavarian town of Herzogenauhrac, renowned for its shoemaking industry. After World War I, amidst economic struggles and societal rebuilding, young Adi Dassler returns to Herzogenauhrac to transform his father's defunct laundry business into a thriving shoe manufacturing enterprise.

Ben [10:12]: "Herzl. It has a storied sneaker past."

Noel highlights the strategic advantage of Herzogenauhrac’s existing shoemaking infrastructure, which provided Adi with the perfect environment to innovate and expand.

2. The Dassler Brothers: Complementary Beginnings

Adi Dassler, the inventive and entrepreneurial brother, excels in designing innovative footwear. His initial creations, made from salvaged materials like helmet leather, gain popularity for their unique functionality and durability.

Noel [10:30]: "The Dassler Bros. Shoe Company."

Ben emphasizes the complementary nature of the brothers' talents: while Adi focused on product development, Rudi Dassler brought business acumen and sales prowess to the table. This synergy leads to the formal establishment of their company in 1924, marking the beginning of their joint venture.

3. Innovations and Early Success

Adi's relentless pursuit of innovation leads to groundbreaking designs, such as the Model Weitzer (1928), which featured a revolutionary screw-in spike system providing athletes with enhanced traction. This innovation positions their shoes as a favorite among sprinters and track athletes.

Noel [16:47]: "This stuff is revolutionary. People are loving it."

The success peaks when Jesse Owens, an African American sprinter, dons Dassler shoes during the 1936 Berlin Olympics, securing four gold medals and catapulting the brand into international fame.

Ben [17:21]: "Jesse Owens... won four gold medals, which again, if you look at the way these shoes are constructed is crazy because you're not supposed to use your heel. You're just supposed to like dig in and run on your toes."

4. The Nazi Era: Complicating Alliances

With the rise of the Nazi regime in 1933, both Dassler brothers join the Nazi party, an affiliation that complicates their legacy. Although they are described as "fair-weather Nazis," their involvement intertwines their business success with the political climate of the time.

Noel [17:32]: "They have been described to their credit, I guess, as not being the most adamant Nazis."

5. Strained Relations and the Catalyst for Conflict

Tensions begin to surface between Adi and Rudi, exacerbated by personal grievances and external pressures. A pivotal moment occurs in 1943 during an Allied air raid when Adi allegedly makes a derogatory comment towards Rudi, sparking a deep-seated feud.

Ben [25:26]: "Dirty bastards are back again."

This incident leads Rudi to suspect Adi of undermining him, further straining their relationship. The brothers' inability to reconcile their differences culminates in Rudi's desertion from the military and subsequent arrest, which he blames on Adi.

6. The Split: Birth of Adidas and Puma

In 1948, irreconcilable differences force the Dassler brothers to split their joint business. Adi establishes Adidas, a portmanteau of his first and last names, focusing on innovation and mass production. Rudi initially names his venture Ruda but later rebrands it to Puma, symbolizing agility and power.

Ben [31:10]: "Adi names his company Adidas. Adidas, right. Which is a portmanteau... Rudi signed him. Not because he thought he was awesome or he saw any promise in him. He just wanted to piss off his brother."

7. Community Impact: The Divided Town

Herzogenauhrac becomes emblematic of the brotherly feud, dividing the town both socially and economically. Employees are forced to choose allegiance between Adidas and Puma, creating rival enclaves with separate establishments and minimal interaction.

Noel [34:03]: "They created this whole Hatfields and McCoys kind of atmosphere in this little town."

This division extends to personal relationships, with strict prohibitions against intermingling between the two company’s employees, including romantic pursuits.

8. Ongoing Rivalry and Business Warfare

The competition between Adidas and Puma intensifies over the decades, marked by frequent lawsuits over design patents and marketing strategies. Adidas capitalizes on mass production and strategic athlete endorsements, while Puma focuses on securing high-profile endorsements to outshine its rival.

Noel [38:09]: "Man, Ben, you have just really expanded my sneaker head."

The rivalry even permeates family lines, with subsequent generations of the Dassler family continuing the legacy of competition and personal conflicts within both companies.

9. Legacy and Modern Implications

Despite their strained relationship, Adidas and Puma evolved into global powerhouses in the sportswear industry. The episode highlights Adidas's larger workforce and Puma's sustained reputation through athlete endorsements, such as Usain Bolt.

Noel [49:33]: "And Puma says they're not hurting. They have a great reputation for getting the endorsements of world-famous athletes."

The brothers' feud, while tragic, laid the foundation for modern branding and endorsement culture in sports apparel, demonstrating how personal dynamics can influence global business landscapes.

10. Attempted Reconciliation: A Fragile Peace

In 2009, Adidas and Puma made a symbolic gesture towards reconciliation by participating in a friendly soccer match to support the Peace One Day organization. However, the deep-rooted animosity within the town and the Dassler family suggests that lasting peace remains elusive.

Noel [49:09]: "It will take more than one game of soccer to bury the hatchet."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Noel [10:30]: "The Dassler Bros. Shoe Company."
• Ben [16:47]: "This stuff is revolutionary. People are loving it."
• Ben [17:21]: "Jesse Owens... won four gold medals, which again, if you look at the way these shoes are constructed is crazy because you're not supposed to use your heel. You're just supposed to like dig in and run on your toes."
• Ben [25:26]: "Dirty bastards are back again."
• Ben [31:10]: "Adi names his company Adidas. Adidas, right. Which is a portmanteau... Rudi signed him. Not because he thought he was awesome or he saw any promise in him. He just wanted to piss off his brother."
• Noel [34:03]: "They created this whole Hatfields and McCoys kind of atmosphere in this little town."
• Noel [38:09]: "Man, Ben, you have just really expanded my sneaker head."
• Noel [49:33]: "And Puma says they're not hurting. They have a great reputation for getting the endorsements of world-famous athletes."

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Conclusion

Adidas Versus Puma: A Tale of Two Brothers offers a riveting exploration of how personal vendettas can shape global industries. Through meticulous research and captivating narration, Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown present a story of ambition, innovation, and enduring rivalry that continues to influence the world of sports apparel today. Whether you're a history enthusiast, sneaker aficionado, or simply intrigued by business dynamics, this episode provides valuable insights into the extraordinary legacy of the Dassler brothers.

Transcript

[Ben]

Fellow ridiculous historians, we are coming to you semi live along the road in a very exciting place.

[Noel]

Live ish coming to you live Ish from Doha, Qatar, at Web Summit Qatar. We've had a wonderful experience in a part of the world that I believe neither of us had visited prior to this. Everyone's been very kind. We've been part of some presentations here with some incredible iheart folks, kind of helping creators in this part of the world learn about this wonderful thing we call podcasting.

[Ben]

Yes. And we are joined in the studio today with none other than our super guest producer, the man who's making all of this possible, podcast wise, Matt the Madman Stillo.

[Noel]

Matt Double Bird Still.

[Ben]

Yeah. Matt, do you have any siblings that you know of? What? What?

[Noel]

Fraternal or I think identical.

[Ben]

Okay, fraternal.

[Noel]

Not quite as cool, but still pretty cool.

[Ben]

Do you guys get along? Yeah. Are you into shoes?

[Noel]

Into shoes?

[Ben]

Like, do you both wear shoes?

[Noel]

Yes.

[Ben]

All right, great.

[Noel]

Do you ever dress in identical tracksuits?

[Ben]

Okay, that would be. That's a little too close.

[Noel]

Only the identicals do that kind of thing. Right.

[Ben]

Okay, right. And only for, you know, film appearances. No.

[Noel]

It's a bizarre though, I gotta say, every set of identical twins I've ever known, they dress the same and it's something that they just have done since childhood.

[Ben]

I feel like it's not on purpose for a lot of them.

[Noel]

It could be parallel thinking and it's just not the same vibe, same place.

[Ben]

Oh, dang. I also like a blue sweater. We're asking this. I'm so glad this worked because our classic episode today while we're on the road is indeed a tale of two brothers and a tale of shoes and.

[Noel]

A tale of two cities and a tale of two cities divided by ideology, branding, and a river.

[Ben]

And I know I sort of decision treed you into that question, do you guys wear shoes? So.

[Noel]

So most of the time was his response.

[Ben]

If you had to choose one, Noel, would you choose Puma or Adidas?

[Noel]

Funny you should ask that, Ben. Adidas is a lot more. Sorry, I'm being such a small German boy when I pronounce it that way. A lot more common in the States. You see it see Adidas stores a lot more frequently. But recently I went to an outlet mall situation in one of the bit more faraway suburbs of Atlant, and they have a Puma store and I purchased an entire Puma tracksuit and several pairs of Puma shoes, but I wear it with my Adidas beanie. So I'm sort of A little controversial if you want to get into today's topic.

[Ben]

Right, yeah, yeah. Like walking around Compton wearing blue and red.

[Noel]

Indeed.

[Ben]

Right.

[Noel]

Not fly.

[Ben]

It's. I mean, it'll work for me because I'm colorblind. That's true.

[Noel]

Yeah. But you were getting some side eyes.

[Ben]

Let's. Let's look at it in a positive light and say you're building bridges. Right?

[Noel]

Indeed.

[Ben]

And these bridges need to be built because as we'll learn in today's classic episode, Adidas or Adidas. And there's a reason we're pronouncing it that way sometimes and Puma are two of the world's most well known sneaker brands today.

[Noel]

Sport garb. Activear. Right.

[Ben]

Yes. Yeah. You're fast walkies. That's true.

[Noel]

But also, you know, they really both, honestly, probably Adidas a little more, have developed a pretty significant place in pop culture. Like, it's not just sportsmen that like to wear these. It's, you know, hip hop enthusiasts, B.

[Ben]

Boys, skaters, or fans of the band.

[Noel]

Korn with a K. All day they dream about looking sexy.

[Ben]

Yes. And it may surprise some of us to learn that there is a strange and bitter origin story behind these two titans of the sneaker world. We are gonna delve into a tale of family feuds, strange contempt and brothers divided.

[Noel]

The story of the Dostler brothers Adidas. Get it?

[Ben]

Let's roll it.

[Matt Stillo]

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[Maria Tremorki]

Welcome to the Criminalia podcast. I'm Maria Tremorki.

[Holly Frey]

And I'm Holly Frey. Together, we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremorki]

Each season we explore a new theme. From poisoners to art thieves, we uncover.

[Holly Frey]

The secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Maria Tremorki]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired. Inspired by each story.

[Holly Frey]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Will]

Hey, will do you ever get overwhelmed by how much science happens these days?

[Mango]

Constantly. I'm like, ah, there's so much science, I can't keep track of it all.

[Will]

Then it's a good thing. Our podcast, Part Time Genius is counting down the 25 greatest science ideas from the past 25 years.

[Mango]

That's right, Mango. We're talking animals in a paper called.

[Will]

Quote, chickens prefer beautiful humans. This was actually the title of the paper. They all discovered that much like humans, chickens are attracted to symmetrical faces.

[Ben]

Got it.

[Will]

We're talking medical miracles.

[Mango]

He's an endocrinologist who found a way to stimulate insulin producing cells using, wait for it, the saliva of a Gila monster.

[Will]

There's no way to make that not sound crazy.

[Mango]

We even talked to some of the experts behind these breakthroughs. It's a week full of fact packed stories you won't want to miss. So listen to the Part Time Genius countdown of the 25 greatest science ideas of the past 25 years, starting Monday, March 3rd on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartrad. Welcome to the show, friends and neighbors. Thanks for tuning in. We have two developments that we'd like to tell you about that occurred outside of the studio, only one of which is tangentially related to today's episode. 4. First is that it is my trusty co host Noel Brown's birthday today.

[Noel]

Oh, I'm sorry, I was running in place birthday resolution with my new Adidas track shoes.

[Ben]

Right, yeah. Oh, that. So, happy birthday, Noel. I'm Ben. Let's say hello to our super producer, Casey Pegram. And the second development, which is I guess at best tangentially related to today's episode, is that for the first time in years, I bought a pair of tennis shoes.

[Noel]

And Ben, thank you for the birthday wishes I was. The endorphins were flowing through me so much I didn't even respond politely and I do apologize. Let's talk about your shoes. Yours are tigers though, right?

[Ben]

Right, right. Lions and tigers and bears, Pumas and Adidas. Adidas, yes, yes. That is the tangential relationship today. So one of the most well known popular tennis shoe brands is Nike today, Right?

[Noel]

That's very true.

[Ben]

Very, very true. Just do it. But other brands are still in the international sphere and very, very well known. Like Adidas and Pumas.

[Noel]

That's right. And I don't know, we can just spoil this part of the story in advance. Nike kind of blew up as a result of Adidas. And Pumas kind of being distracted with sort of the topic of today's episode and not really paying attention to this impending shoe mageddon that Nike brought on.

[Ben]

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Because, well, like, have you ever own pair of Adidas or a Puma shoe?

[Noel]

I have an Adidas hoodie that I'm quite fond of and I think I've owned a Puma. A pair of Puma shoes. Don't think I've ever owned any Adidas shoes. But fan of the hoodies, I think.

[Ben]

I've only owned a tracksuit from Adidas. It was a different life.

[Noel]

I could never. I could not picture you in a tracksuit.

[Ben]

It was. It was for a show. It was unrelated.

[Noel]

Okay, for a show. That's fair.

[Ben]

But I haven't owned the shoes either, which is, you know, not super unusual for us because neither of us are especially sneaker heads, as they're called. But. But they are very, very popular shoes and they have a very strange story behind them. I guess to start off today, we should go ahead and just be upfront about the pronunciation and name of this town.

[Noel]

Should we have a pronunciation off and then we can check Forvo and see who was closest.

[Ben]

So you're using Forvo, right?

[Noel]

Yes, that's right. That's right.

[Ben]

Is that your go to pronunciation guide of choice?

[Noel]

It is, because it's CR and it's usually from natives, so I find it to be pretty reliable. And if there. If the word isn't there, then I just roll the dice. But this one in fact, was there.

[Ben]

So let's. How about we spell it first so everyone knows where we're coming from? It's H, E R Z O G E, N A U R A C, H. So let's see, would that be Herzogenach? Herzogenach. Why don't you give it a shot?

[Noel]

Well, Ben, I may have told you that in a past life I was once a young German boy.

[Ben]

That's true. I would defer to your pronunciation.

[Noel]

So I'm going to give it a go with the help of Forvo and then I'll check. Check myself. Herzogenaurach.

[Ben]

Herzogenaug. Herzogen och got close.

[Noel]

Close. I think I over pronounced the gen again. So they're more like Herzogenaurach. Yeah, the gn. Kind of like just the syllable.

[Ben]

Right.

[Noel]

So you know, this is a. Well, let's call it. What do we say, Ben? Herzl.

[Ben]

Herzl.

[Noel]

That's what the locals call it.

[Ben]

That's what those in the nose Call it.

[Noel]

It's going to be easier. So Herzl. It has a storied sneaker past.

[Ben]

Yes. Yes. Our story begins with the Dassler brothers, Rudolph and Adolf, But Rudy and Adi, to their friends.

[Noel]

That's right. And to us.

[Ben]

And to us. For the purposes of this. So Adi is the younger brother. He's a cobbler, he's an inventor. He's a bit of an entrepreneur. His favorite thing in the world is to sit at his workbench and tinker, and he starts making shoes.

[Noel]

So I thought a shoemaker was a cobbler, was a tinkerer. There's a tinker as a thing, too. There's Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. You know, that movie. What's a Tinker?

[Ben]

So you could tinker with things. But the old profession is someone who travels from place to place mending things like pots and pans.

[Noel]

That's right. He is a tinker and a cobbler.

[Ben]

I would say he's a tinkerer.

[Noel]

Yeah. So he's a tinkering cobbler, and he's cobbling at his tinker bench. And what does he make, Ben? There's a little bit of more of a story here, too. This was after World War I. Things were pretty dire in Germany. Bavaria, where Herzo is located. And the brother's mother had had a laundry business that was no longer operational.

[Ben]

And so that's where Adi set up his shop. He was 18 years old when he returned from World War I in 1918, and Herza was in northern Bavaria. Oddly enough, too, shoemaking was the biggest industry in the area at the time. So it was a natural fit for him to go into this empty laundry shed and begin making shoes.

[Noel]

Right. There's a great, great article that we're gonna pull some good stuff from from Vice Sports Blickenstaff that sort of mentions the idea that even in those kind of salad days Post World War I, when folks were returning back home and things were kind of a little bit getting by, by hook or by crook, you might not have to buy the nicest clothes, but you had to have functional shoes.

[Ben]

Right? You gotta have shoes. And there's. There's an excellent article depicting his experience making his first pair of shoes over on TodayIFoundout. Folks, you may notice we're avoiding giving you headlines of these articles right now. That's because we don't want to spoil things straight from the gate. So he makes his first shoes just for his friends. But these shoes that he creates are made out of leather scraps salvaged from helmets and Wartime uniforms and other gear.

[Noel]

Yeah, these are like Mad Max shoes.

[Ben]

Yeah, that's a good description. And turns out people really liked Adi's shoes. His reputation spread far beyond Herzl. And pretty soon he had one of the best problems you can have when you start your own business. He had more work than he could handle.

[Noel]

Yeah, I think it took him about three years to get to that point. And that's when he enlisted the help of his brother Rudy, who was a little bit more of a business minded kind of guy. A bit of a brash kind of salesman type dude. And he really needed that. Cause Adi was sort of the brains behind the product. And Rudy came in and became the power behind the throne. The kind of guy that pushed the product out into the marketplace.

[Ben]

Yeah. 1923, Rudy joins. And we must emphasize just how different these two guys are. Adi sounds to me like an introvert, and Rudy definitely seems like the extrovert. And this worked in the beginning. This was a fantastic partnership. I mean, they had already grown up together, so they knew what to expect. And they worked pretty well in the early days. And in 1924, things were going well enough that they said, you know what, let's make it official, bro. Let's start a company.

[Noel]

Yeah. They're called the Dassler Bros. Or Gbrudger Dassler.

[Ben]

Mm. The Dostler Brothers Shoe Company. And they continue growing. So I believe it's in 1926, they say, okay, this laundry shed operation isn't cutting it. We need an actual factory.

[Noel]

That's right.

[Ben]

Oh, we should also mention, before we get too far into the story, after World War I, Rudy had decided he wanted to become a policeman and he actually he trained for it.

[Noel]

Like a Gestapo type policeman.

[Ben]

Interesting that you would mention that part that is going to come into play later because, yes, this is Germany in the mid-1920s at this time.

[Noel]

Ah, yes.

[Ben]

Ah, yes. So where. Where should we go next? We're. We're still in Herzl, right?

[Noel]

We are. That's what we're gonna say. We're gonna mainly stay there.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. Toward the end we might expand a little. But yes. This is a Herzo story through and through. Do you wanna talk a little bit about what these shoes look like and how they differ from modern shoes?

[Noel]

Yeah, I think we really should. There is a really cool blog post on a site called designboom called History of Adidas. Adi Dassler's first track and field shoes. And it goes through a chronology of these designs between the 20s and the 30s. The very first shoe called the Model Weitzer from 1928 was a sprint shoe. And it was actually worn at the Olympic Games in Amsterdam of that year. And it looks almost like a rudimentary kind of very stark ballet shoe mixed with like a bowling shoe. But it's very, very steeply angled from the heel to like where the ball of the foot might be. And then it flattens and then has these cleats, these six very sharp, pronounced, almost like crocodile teeth looking cleats. And this was kind of a revolutionary design because according to this blog, it was the first shoe to use a screw system in athletics, which were six handmade spikes that were cut, pressed through these holes that were punched in the outsole of the shoe and then were screwed in using a steel disc that attaches from the outsole the outside of the shoe. And there were some positives here and that it gave runners traction that they had lacked in the past. But it also, they were a little bit heavy because there were a lot of weighty metal parts.

[Ben]

Right. And they were not manufacturing the actual spikes themselves. They did have help from a blacksmith operation, but the rest of it, sourcing the material and assembling it, that's all Dossler. And it's true. This stuff is revolutionary. People are loving it. We do need to mention that Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party come to power in what, around 33, 1933. And when this happens, both of the Dostler brothers do join the Nazi party.

[Noel]

That's true. They have been described to their credit, I guess, as not being the most adamant Nazis. I guess they were sort of low key Nazis.

[Ben]

Yeah, they were. They were not. I guess they were fair, weathered Nazis. Yeah, it seemed like they were just doing it because they were fitting in. Maybe.

[Noel]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Which is a huge problem.

[Noel]

It's a huge problem with the whole Nazi plague in general. It's like I was just following orders. I was just trying to fit in. That's not a discussion for today's episode. But all the while, they're blending into the background while making these shoes. And it kind of comes to a head when one of their designs gets worn by a very famous African American sprinter by the name of James Cleveland Owens, AKA Jesse Owens, who wore these shoes in a very specific sporting event that we have talked about in episodes past.

[Ben]

Yes, we are referring to the 1936 Summer Olympics, which were held in Berlin. If you've checked out our earlier episode, then you notice that Jesse Owens is a returning guest to our show. Jesse Owens was a track and field star. And given that the Dostler brothers were already benefiting from the Nazi party's use of sports as a propaganda tool. They saw the Summer Olympics as an opportunity to go into the international sphere and get recognition outside of Herzl and outside of Germany. So they pushed and pushed to get Dossler shoes on Jesse Owens. All they really seemed to care about in the Olympics, in fact, was getting Jesse Owens to wear these shoes. He did wear Dostler shoes and he won four gold medals, which again, if you look at the way these shoes are constructed is crazy because you're not supposed to use your heel. You're just supposed to like dig in and run on your toes. And the plan worked. Owen's four medals gave the company huge amounts of international attention. And athletes from all across Europe started making their way to this village, Herzl, which is pretty tiny, whenever they passed through Germany, saying, I gotta get a pair of one of those Dossler brothers shoes.

[Noel]

Yeah. And from that original design we Talked about from 1928, this one was much improved because it actually left out the metal plate. And it had very small eyelets and thin laces, which helped to reduce the weight of the shoe, which was really important for sprinting.

[Ben]

Absolutely.

[Noel]

In fact, instead of they had to get really creative with materials because instead of using that metal plate, they used something called vegetable tanned bottom leather or vach leather, and that significantly reduced the weight. So really forward thinking design work going into these shoes that continued to carry on specifically with adi.

[Ben]

Yeah, look again, as we're gonna see, neither of these guys are perfect, but all these innovations in the world of footwear are ADI's. I want to highlight that because I feel like that's very important, that ADI was the brains of the operation. Well, at this point, their success is bringing them to a more money, more problems, sort of sit relationship is becoming strained. And as the company is succeeding, Germany is inching closer to war. And the brothers are experiencing a failure in their relationship. One that a huge animosity that extends to their wives, their children, their parents, their other siblings. Because they did have other siblings.

[Noel]

Yeah. And weirdly, both families live together in the same villa, which seemed less than ideal considering that every source we've looked has their wives just fighting like cats and dogs between each other.

[Ben]

They were not peacemakers.

[Noel]

Not at all. And I'm sure that tension carried over into the brothers relationship. When you're trying to defend your wife in some sort of spat and take their side, it probably soured relations between the brothers.

[Ben]

And let's not forget, mom's in the picture. Too.

[Noel]

That's right.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Hey y'all. I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. My podcast when youn're Invisible is my love letter to the working class people and immigrants who shaped my life. I get to talk to a lot of people who form the backbone of our society, but who have never been interviewed before. Season 2 is all about community organizing and being underestimated.

[Matt Stillo]

All the greatest changes have happened when.

[Mango]

A couple of people said, this sucks.

[Matt Stillo]

Let'S do something about it.

[Ben]

I can't have more than $2,000 in my bank account or else I can't get disability benefits. They won't let you succeed. I know we get paid to serve you guys, but like, be respectful. We're made out of the same things.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Bone, body, blood.

[Will]

It's rare to have black male teachers. Sometimes I am the lesson and I'm also the testament.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Listen to when you're Invisible as part of the My Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Will]

Hey, Will, do you ever get overwhelmed by how much science happens these days?

[Mango]

Constantly. I'm like, ah, there's so much science, I can't keep track of it all.

[Will]

Then it's a good thing. Our podcast, Part Time Genius is counting down the 25 greatest science ideas from the past 25 years.

[Mango]

That's right, Mango. We're talking animals in a paper called.

[Will]

Quote, chickens prefer beautiful humans.

[Matt Stillo]

Right?

[Will]

This was actually the title of the paper. They all discovered that, much like humans, chickens are attracted to symmetrical faces.

[Ben]

Got it.

[Will]

We're talking medical miracles.

[Mango]

He's an endocrinologist who found a way to stimulate insulin producing cells using, wait for it, the saliva of a Gila monster.

[Will]

There's no way to make that not sound crazy.

[Mango]

We even talked to some of the experts behind these breakthroughs. It's a week full of fact packed stories you won't want to miss. So listen to the Part Time Genius countdown of the 25 greatest science ideas of the past 25 years, starting Monday, March 3rd on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben]

So in 1940, Adi gets the call. He is asked to serve in the German military and he does for about three months. But somehow he is able to get an exemption. And you'll hear different. Historians speculate that this could have been due to Rudy's effort to maybe back in Herzl, he was pulling some strings to get his brother out to go back to the shoe business. And we'll probably never know. For sure. Whether he was able to get that exemption due to Rudy. But we do know that whatever happened, it did not alleviate the tension between the families. As the war kicked into full swing, the tensions between the families got worse and worse until they hit a tipping point.

[Noel]

Yeah. This is one of the most divisive bits of the story. There are various accounts of this, but it is something that comes up repeatedly. And so, supposedly, in 1943, when there was an Allied air raid on Herzl, the brothers and their families found themselves sharing a bomb shelter. And supposedly, Adolf made a comment that Rudy was never able to shake because he interpreted it as being a direct insult to his family. So, as the story goes, Adolf, in hearing the sound of the approaching RAF forces, Royal Air Force, British planes, said something to the effect of, there come those pig dogs again. Or here come those bastards, or the.

[Ben]

Dirty bastards are back again.

[Noel]

The dirty bastards are back again. Exactly. To which Rudy heard that as an insult lobbed at he and his family as they got into the shelter.

[Ben]

And this was either a misunderstanding or a grudge that both brothers would carry throughout their lives and refuse to reconcile. Later that year, this is 1943, Rudy himself gets called up for military service. And at this point, he suspects that Adi had schemed to get him sent to the front to edge him out of the business. And he serves from 1943 to 1945. In 1945, Rudy deserts his post in Poland. He flees just ahead of the oncoming Russian army, and he goes back to Herzo. He hurriedly gets a friend of his who is a doctor to declare him unfit for military service due to a frozen foot. But then.

[Noel]

Sorry, frozen foot?

[Ben]

Yeah, frozen foot.

[Noel]

Is that like a twisted ankle? Kind of.

[Ben]

You know what? He was in a hurry.

[Noel]

Is that like bone spurs?

[Ben]

Yeah, it's just something to make you unable to walk.

[Noel]

I see.

[Ben]

And so this doesn't pass muster with the Gestapo. They arrest Rudy Dostler for desertion, and he blames that on Adi, too. But here's the thing. We don't know whether Adolf Dostler got his brother purposely sent into military service, but we do have pretty compelling circumstantial reports that both Adi and his wife snitched on him.

[Noel]

Yeah, I see. Referenced in several places, one of which is in a Fortune magazine article called the Hatred and Bitterness Behind Two of the World's Most Popular Brands by Omar Akhtar to an American investigative report that was found.

[Ben]

And that's in Fortune? Yes.

[Noel]

That's unfortunate.

[Ben]

And so he's arrested first for deserting his Post by the Gestapo. And then when he's released by the Gestapo, he's arrested by the Allies on suspicion of working for the Gestapo. And that American investigative report that you mentioned, Noel, does give truth to his claims. And while he was languishing, wasting away in a POW camp, Adolf Dassler is very hard at work. He is rebuilding the business, and he is making a killing selling shoes, selling, quote, unquote, Jesse Owens shoes to American soldiers who all know about the legendary Summer Olympics and all want to have the shoes.

[Noel]

And it feels to me, and this is just speculating, but tell me if you think this is true, Ben, that this is a really early example of this kind of endorsement culture in sporting goods and wear and any kind of apparel. Right. I really do feel like this is kind of the model setter for that whole thing. And this is something that the company would continue to lean heavily into, and it would become another sore spot between the brothers as time went on.

[Ben]

Absolutely. We should also point out I couldn't find anything about Jesse Owens getting any percentage of sales. So I think that was a rough spot for him because he could have made millions.

[Noel]

Well, it was a different time. Right. I mean, it was like cutting edge stuff. They were almost like, yeah, just give me the shoes so I can perform better. Because other companies weren't making anything that was quite up to this level of innovation. Right, Right.

[Ben]

So these guys, at first their personalities complimented one another. Then their relationships became strained. Now they hate each other, they loathe and abhor one another, and they can barely stand each other's presence, which is weird because they still both live in the same very, very small town. And we see this hate in the historical record. So Rudy is not taking this on the chin or turning the other cheek. He retaliates against his brother in 1946, when Adolf Dassler is hauled before the de Nazification committee. And he could be classified as something called a bellestetter or a profiteer. Which means if he is proven to have made a lot of profit or having broken financial laws during wartime, he could have lost control of the entire company of Dostler Brothers. And that meant, at least in Rudy's mind, that he could be appointed to run the company. He could maybe even cut out his brother entirely, which is brutal when you consider Rudy didn't make the shoes. This is very strange. So he tried to paint Adolf Dostler in a terrible light, trying to get control of the company, but they still lived under the same roof.

[Noel]

Yeah. So he was sort of like pointing the finger, right? At himself. And ultimately, the Allies determined that neither of the Dostler brothers were problematic enough Nazis to really mess with. They had bigger Nazi fish to fry.

[Ben]

Yeah. Yeah. And the American occupation forces actually had seized their villa. So all these two families that hate each other are living in makeshift accommodations in the shoe factory.

[Noel]

So this is funny. In 1948, they officially split the company up and move to opposite sides of the river that bisects this tiny little hamlet in Bavaria, the River Aurok.

[Ben]

Yeah. And Adi names his company Adidas. Adidas, right. Which is a portmanteau. Oh, we were on dangerous ground there. Of his first and last names. And Rudy tries to do something similar. And at first, he calls his company Ruda.

[Noel]

Now, to me, this is a big signpost of how uncreative and kind of, like, rip offy Rudy kind of was, that he immediately had to be like, oh, you're gonna make a portmanteau for your company name? Well, I'm gonna do the same thing, you know, and because Adidas is clever and it's a good idea, and he sounds good. It sounds good. But, you know, he did see the light. And whether he was counseled by some smart young buck in marketing, he changed the name to the now much more ubiquitous Puma, which. Couldn't imagine it. Ruda. That sounds. That's hard. That's not even fun to say.

[Ben]

It sounds like years ago, I did an episode for car stuff on cars behind the Iron Curtain.

[Noel]

I remember that. I was the producer of that show.

[Ben]

You're the producer of that? That's. Yeah. Wow. We go way back. But the thing is, Ruda sounds like a kind of Iron Curtain car.

[Noel]

It also sounds like the prefix for, like, rudimentary, which makes me think, like, they're kind of like crappy shoes.

[Ben]

Yeah, it just sounds very plain, you.

[Noel]

Know, Puma, on the other hand, I picture a powerful, you know, prowling beast with speed and precision and agility.

[Ben]

Something that leaps and pounces. Right. So, yes, Correct decision on Rudi's part to shed that name, Ruda, and go for something a little bit better. And here's something interesting. We mentioned earlier that Herzo is in an area of Germany that was known for shoemaking. Historically, it was one of the primary industries of the area. It's no surprise that shoe factories would take off here. But eventually, most of the town, if not all of the town, ends up working for one of these two factories. These guys still hate each other, by the way.

[Noel]

Oh. With a venomous passion.

[Ben]

And that passion extends to me. This was one of the weirdest parts. It extends to the employees.

[Noel]

Oh, man. No. They created this whole Hatfields and McCoys kind of atmosphere in this little town that was literally divided by that river we talked about. I mean, their were restaurants, bars, grocery stores specifically designed to just be for employees of one company or the other. They were. I mean, I can't imagine it would have been codified in any kind of real way, but there was this unspoken idea that they never the twain shall meet. There shall be no coupling between Puma and Adita's employees, including.

[Ben]

Yeah. Romantic pursuits.

[Noel]

Yeah, I think that's. Yeah, exactly right. And certainly marriage would have been verboten.

[Ben]

Verboten. Yeah. There's an interesting split in terms of the internal workforce as well. So when the Dostler brothers split the company up, the employees essentially had to choose. They could go to Adidas or they could go to Puma. Most of the technical people, like the actual cobblers, stayed with Adidas. Most of the Salesforce and the admin folks went with Puma, and it showed pretty quickly.

[Noel]

And, man, making it even deeper. Bitterer. Family affair. Even the mom had to pick sides.

[Ben]

Yeah. Yeah. Who. But who did she choose?

[Noel]

I think she went with the elder.

[Ben]

Isn't that crazy, Rudy?

[Noel]

Which is so crazy because Adi was the idea man. He was the Willy Wonka of this whole operation. He started it in her abandoned laundry. How could she forsake her. Her young son like that? Her bright young boy.

[Ben]

Yeah. I think clearly we have chosen our horse in this race. We don't want to be too biased, but we do want to be transparent about that.

[Holly Frey]

Yeah.

[Noel]

Rudy seems like the worst.

[Ben]

I'm on Team Audie all the way. What about you, Casey?

[Noel]

I got a side with Run DMC and Corrin. I'm going Adidas. It has been adjudicated.

[Ben]

Casey, on the case. I love that segment.

[Noel]

Have you seen that shirt design that's floating around on the Facebook group? Man, no spoilers, guys. But it's happening, and I think it's gonna have some French on it.

[Ben]

Check it out. Go to Ridiculous Historians, our community page, where you can see some A memes as well. So let's pause for a second before we get into even more opprobrium. There is an interesting story about how they make. How they decide the iconic shoes. Right. Cause clearly the Adidas or the Pumas you buy today do not look like the shoes that Jesse Owens wore.

[Noel]

Oh, no. Like I said, I mean, you see on this amazing design blog, design boom, just the evolution of these Shoes. And even as far as it goes. No, it's cool. You actually, when you start, when it becomes Adidas, because this site is particularly devoted to Adi's designs, so they've obviously chosen sides as well. You start to see more of a fashion trend kind of coming into play.

[Ben]

The spikes are less pronounced.

[Noel]

Spikes are less pronounced.

[Ben]

More color.

[Noel]

There's more color. They have that like, Even in like 60s before, you have the designs that use that kind of more suede, blue suede look. And then they've got the little kind of stripes along the side. Much more traditional. Then you start seeing those like, iconic, like gold colored ones. It's called the Azteca gold model. And that's as far as this blog goes. But yeah, so it took like into the 60s for them to really start getting that iconic look that we know today from Adidas.

[Ben]

Yeah. And so. So we do have the story behind that iconic three stripe arrangement on Adidas. So they had those strips before in earlier versions of the shoe, but they weren't really noticeable. They were the same color. Like you said, it's before the gold, before the blue and the white. So Adi decided that the strips should be painted some other color to make them look like stripes and that this would be the Adidas trademark. And so he made sample shoes, some with two, some with three, some with four, or even as many as six stripes apiece. And then he asked his wife and his sister in law to pick which ones they liked best. They ended up saying that four stripes is too many. It felt too busy. And so on their advice, he went with the three stripe design. Over at Puma, by the way, just to be fair, Rudy had a couple of different depictions. He thought of maybe having a puma jumping through a capital D. But eventually he just settled on the company's signature horizontal stripe, which they call a form stripe.

[Noel]

Man, Ben, you have just really expanded my sneaker head.

[Ben]

Oh, no. Oh, no. Actual sneakerheads who are listening to this.

[Noel]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Hopefully you find this of interest.

[Noel]

Hopefully. But really, if you are a sneaker head, I cannot. I know I'm harping on it, but I cannot recommend highly enough this design boom blog because each shoe has very specific information about, like, some of the design features. And there are some very specific kind of jargony terms that I would unaware of that folks that are into that world might be a little more hip too. So I recommend checking that out.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Hey, y'all. I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. My podcast, when youn're Invisible is my love letter to the Working class people and immigrants who shaped my life. I get to talk to a lot of people who form the backbone of our society, but who have never been interviewed before. Season 2 is all about community organizing and being an underestimated.

[Matt Stillo]

All the greatest changes have happened when.

[Mango]

A couple of people said, this sucks.

[Matt Stillo]

Let'S do something about it.

[Ben]

I can't have more than $2,000 in my bank account or else I can't get disability benefits. They won't let you succeed. I know we get paid to serve you guys, but like, be respectful. We're made out of the same things.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Bone, body, blood.

[Will]

It's rare to have black male teachers. Sometimes I. I am the lesson and.

[Noel]

I'm also the testament.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Listen to when you're invisible as part of the my cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Will]

Hey, Will, do you ever get overwhelmed by how much science happens these days?

[Mango]

Constantly. I'm like, ah, there's so much science, I can't keep track of it all.

[Will]

Then it's a good thing. Our podcast part time genius is counting down the 25 greatest science ideas from the past 25 years.

[Mango]

That's right, Mango. We're talking animals in a paper called.

[Will]

Quote, chickens prefer beautiful humans. This was actually the title of the paper. They all discovered that much like humans, chickens are attracted to symmetrical faces.

[Ben]

Got it.

[Will]

We're talking medical miracles.

[Mango]

He's an endocrinologist who found a way to stimulate insulin producing cells using weight for it. The saliva of a Gila monster.

[Will]

There's no way to make that not sound crazy.

[Mango]

We even talked to some of the experts behind these breakthroughs. It's a week full of fact packed stories you won't want to miss. So listen to the part time genius countdown of the 25 greatest science ideas of the past 25 years starting Monday, March 3rd on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben]

We should also mention, I think we talked about this a little bit off air the entire time this story is taking place. Like since 48, they are suing the pants off each other. Right?

[Noel]

Or trying to, I mean, pretty much just a nonstop torrent of lawsuits. And I don't know if you were able to find anything specific, Ben, or any specific documentation, but I would conjecture, I would hazard a guess that a lot of it was around Rudy possibly nicking some of these designs from his clearly more sneaker headed brother, Adi.

[Ben]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And as this stuff is happening, Adidas And Puma are both growing as companies. The town is getting further and further and further divided. It becomes known as. Did you see this nickname?

[Noel]

No. Oh, yeah. Oh, the. The Bent Necks.

[Ben]

Yes, the town of Bent Necks. Because according to the story, if you were walking around town and you saw someone you didn't know, you would look at their shoes before you decided whether to talk to them. If you were a Puma person and they wore Pumas, you're in.

[Noel]

Yeah. That is just crazy how it's such a specific industry in such a small town to be divided so. And have such a very interesting way of identifying and Easy. Right. You could just look at the other person's shoes and say, I know what team you're on, buddy.

[Ben]

Here's how deep it went. This is something I found. I only found this in one place, so I hope it's true. But I couldn't confirm it yet. Apparently each side had their own tombstone carvers.

[Noel]

Yeah, that will come into play a little bit later. I did find an article on a blog called Duets Blog that deals with the intersection of creativity and the law. And it talks about how a lot of the lawsuits between Puma and Adidas were in fact quibbling over that three stripe design that you mentioned earlier and went into. Apparently Puma, in a burst of creativity, made it a four stripe design to just, you know, one stripe better in the mind of. In the mind of Rudy. Not to mention the fact that we talked about earlier how there was this focus on getting these athletes to endorse these products. Right. And that continued and became a game of one upsmanship between Adi and Rudy as their respective companies kind of started to gain steam on their own. And this continued on throughout the years when Adi actually turned down the idea of sponsoring this young up and coming tennis player by the name of Boris Becker. I don't know if you've heard of him. He was a big deal in the 80s and the 90s. And so just as a, you know, act of pure one upsmanship, Rudy signed him. Not because he thought he was awesome or he saw any promise in him. He just wanted to piss off his brother. And this is from a fantastic article in the Telegraph called Adidas and Puma Bury the hatchet after 60 years of brothers feud.

[Ben]

What?

[Noel]

Bury the Hatchet, Ben. What does that mean?

[Ben]

It means that the brothers died. That's what it means.

[Noel]

That is what that means. And remember that tombstone carver you were talking about? Well, those respective tombstone carvers carved those respective tombstones on polar opposite sides of the tomb.

[Ben]

Yes. That's correct. Rudy Dossler, the elder of the Dostler brothers, died on Oct. 27, 1974, of lung cancer. He was 76. The priest called his little brother Adolf to his side, and they did not squash the beef. As far as we know, adolf himself expired four years later. He was 78.

[Noel]

Ben, I want to correct myself here. I think I said earlier that there were separate cemeteries on opposite sides of the town. That seems to be not quite right. They just made sure that in the town cemetery, they were as far away.

[Ben]

From one another as possible, symbolically, as the telegraph writes, symbolically representing their unending hatred. So they did it on purpose. Can you imagine that? Deathbed conversation, man.

[Noel]

Yeah, and I cannot. No, I cannot. And I cannot imagine. I mean, the circumstances were pretty insane. You're talking about a lot of money, a lot of intellectual property, a weird power dynamic, weird familial relations, not to mention being in the heart of one of the most brutal conflicts in the history of the world, if not the most brutal conflict in the history of the world. So, you know, lots of factors at play here. But I did read in that Vice article that the brothers purportedly never spoke to each other again. But then there are hints that maybe they did here and there from time to time throughout their lives, but it certainly never smoothed things over. But there's a really good quote from a book called Sneaker, the Enemy Brothers who Founded Adidas and Pumas and the Family Feud that Forever Changed the Business of Sports by Barbara Smit. And it is a quote from Rudolf Dostler much later in his life. And he says this. The relation to my brother was ideal from 1924 till 1933. Then his young wife tried to interfere in business matters, although she, with her 16 years, had no experience at all. And the warfare began.

[Ben]

Wow. So it was probably a situation where he said, I hate your wife.

[Noel]

Yeah, like a Yoko Beatles kind of situation.

[Ben]

Yeah, maybe. Maybe that's the. The needle in the conflict haystack here. We do know that the feud carried on to later generations, and the brothers had notoriously bad relationships with their children as well. I was reading a pretty interesting article in the Guardian that talked about this. Adidas versus Puma, the bitter rivalry that runs and runs. And in this, they explore the problems that the brothers had almost universally relating to family members. So. So Adi always fought with his son and heir, a guy named Horst Dossler, and eventually banished him to France.

[Noel]

Banished him. Wow.

[Ben]

Yeah, he banished him to work in a shoe factory that was failing, losing a ton of money. He turned it into a moneymaker. Then he built a thing called Adidas France that rivaled the rest of Adidas. But it wasn't good enough for his dad. And Rudy over at Puma had a son named Armin Dassler that was his oldest son and heir. He routinely made fun of him in front of other company executives, and he was going crazy because he saw his cousin Horst succeeding at Adidas. So Armin finally exiled himself to Salzburg to run a Puma factory there. And then he started selling shoes on the US Market, which his father had had forbidden him to do. And when Rudy died in 1974, his oldest son was startled to learn he had been written out of the will.

[Noel]

That's cold grief, man. Yeah, well, after all this bad blood and bitter familial feuding, surely there's a silver lining here somewhere, right, Ben?

[Ben]

Somewhere in the end zone of this story.

[Noel]

Yeah, on the pitch.

[Ben]

Yeah, maybe. Lay it on me, bro.

[Noel]

Well, the two companies do still exist in that same tiny town of 25,000. Herzo. I'm not going to even try to pronounce it again because I don't have it in front of me. But in 2009, the companies kind of put their differences aside and this really brutal history of one upsmanship aside, and stepped out to play a friendly soccer game, or as the Europeans call it, a futball. And it was to support the Peace One Day organization, which chose September 21st of 2009 as the first, I believe, of an annual day of non violence. So, but then this article in the Telegraph ends with the very knowing little kicker line quote. But despite the friendly handshakes, those who know, the townspeople say it will take more than one game of soccer to bury the hatchet.

[Ben]

And in business terms, Adidas, if you just look at the numbers, is by far the larger company. I think in 2009, they had 39,000 employees compared to Puma's 9,000. But Puma says they're not hurting. They have a great reputation for getting the endorsements of world famous athletes. Like Usain Bolt was one of the more recent ones.

[Noel]

And that's a legacy that's just carried over from the old Dostler brothers days. So very, very forward thinking. And I did read somewhere that while Adidas maybe wasn't the first custom sneaker company, they were the first to, like, mass produce and sell them to the public. Because you make a custom sneaker designed for an athlete, there was a time where it was literally a custom product designed for an individual. Now, these custom products People want them on their feet even though they are not Usain Bolt, even though they are not Michael Jordan. You know, makes them feel a little bit closer to their heroes.

[Ben]

Yeah. Like Reebok pumps, you know, Remember those LA lights. Oh, yeah.

[Noel]

Yeezys.

[Ben]

It's an interesting pattern, and it makes me think that we found a crazy piece of history that a lot of people don't know. If you are listening to this, gosh, I hope someone out here is. If you're listening to this and you're wearing Adidas and Pumas. Adidas or Pumas, I don't know how you'd wear. I guess one on one foot, one on the other.

[Noel]

That would look ridiculous.

[Ben]

Very forward fashion, I think. But if you're wearing those, be aware that you are treading on strange history with each step you take. I'm waxing poetic here just because it's such an interesting story. Yeah.

[Noel]

And the image of treading when we're talking about shoes, that works quite nicely.

[Ben]

Yes. Oh, thanks, man. And we hope that you enjoyed this episode as much as we enjoyed making it. Noel. Again. Again. You know, I don't want to blow up your spot, but happy birthday, man.

[Noel]

Hey, thanks, pal. We'll have a drink after work, maybe. Yeah.

[Ben]

Yeah, let's see. Let's look into that. Casey, are you down? Let's do it. All right, well, Casey has spoken. And of course, we want to thank you, Casey, for helping us out. As always, thanks for saving the show. We want to thank our research associate, Yves Jeff Cope.

[Noel]

Also want to thank Alex Williams, who composed our theme. And yeah, we want to thank you. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Ridiculous History. Stay tuned for our next episode where we blow up the moon.

[Ben]

Or try to.

[Noel]

We'll see you then, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Maria Tremorki]

Welcome to the Criminalia podcast. I'm Maria Trimarca.

[Holly Frey]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together, we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremorki]

Each season, we explore a new theme. From poisoners to art thieves, we uncover.

[Holly Frey]

The secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Maria Tremorki]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Holly Frey]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Will]

Hey, Will, do you ever get overwhelmed by how much science happens these days?

[Mango]

Constantly. I'm like, ah, there's so much science I can't keep track of it all.

[Will]

Then it's a good thing. Our podcast Part Time Genius is counting down the 25 greatest science ideas from the past 25 years.

[Mango]

That's right, Mango. We're talking animals in a paper called.

[Will]

Quote, chickens prefer beautiful human. This was actually the title of the paper. They all discovered that, much like humans, chickens are attracted to symmetrical faces.

[Ben]

Got it.

[Will]

We're talking medical miracles.

[Mango]

He's an endocrinologist who found a way to stimulate insulin producing cells using, wait for it, the saliva of a Gila monster.

[Will]

There's no way to make that not sound crazy.

[Mango]

We even talked to some of the experts behind these breakthroughs. It's a week full of fact packed stories you won't want to to miss. So listen to the Part Time Genius countdown of the 25 greatest science ideas of the past 25 years starting Monday, March 3rd on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.