CLASSIC: How far did Isaac Newton go to hunt down forgers?

Summary

Ridiculous History – CLASSIC: How Far Did Isaac Newton Go to Hunt Down Forgers?

Podcast: Ridiculous History (iHeartPodcasts)
Episode Date: January 24, 2026
Hosts: Ben Bowlin & Noel Brown
Episode Theme: The curious case of Isaac Newton’s war on currency forgers and his epic rivalry with the master counterfeiter William Chaloner.

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into an often-overlooked chapter in the life of Sir Isaac Newton—not his scientific achievements, but his relentless and at times ruthless tenure as Warden of the Royal Mint. Ben and Noel explore how Newton transformed from the “king of gravity” to something of a 17th-century detective, obsessively pursuing criminals in the shadowy underworld of counterfeiting. The central story is Newton’s ‘Holmes versus Moriarty’ battle of wits with William Chaloner, England’s most notorious counterfeiter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Isaac Newton: From Scientist to Sleuth

• While most know Newton for gravity and mathematics, few realize his role as the Warden of the Royal Mint (03:29), a position he took exceedingly seriously:

  “Unlike some royal positions, this was not ceremonial. He took the job of bird dogging forgers seriously. He was getting kind of Sherlock Holmesian about it.” — Ben [00:42]

• Newton transformed his scientific rigor into meticulous investigative methods to combat rampant counterfeiting in England, particularly during the 1690s currency crisis (06:11).

2. The Counterfeiting Crisis of the Era

• In 1695, England’s economy was under assault due to up to 20% of coins being counterfeit—a staggering figure discovered by Newton himself (08:38).
• Chaloner emerges as a criminal mastermind, evading law enforcement thanks to the evolving methods of counterfeiting and the slow pace of legislative adaptation (15:12).

  “That technology will typically outpace legislation. We’re running into it in 2019, we’ll be running into it in the year 3000. Totally 1690s, no different…” — Ben [14:22]

3. Who Was William Chaloner?

• “A villainous Renaissance man” (09:38): Born to a poor family, Chaloner graduates from forging coins as an apprentice nail-maker to producing fake lottery tickets, banknotes, and even sexual aids, which the hosts discuss with their signature irreverence and banter (10:45–11:22).
• His operations involved a network of middlemen, many of whom paid with their lives when caught (13:41). Chaloner’s criminal prowess garners comparisons to Sherlock’s Moriarty—Newton’s “white whale” (13:55).

4. The Cat-and-Mouse Game

• Newton worked obsessively to bring Chaloner to justice, facing setbacks when Chaloner repeatedly escaped the law, either by bribery or by betraying fellow forgers (15:59).
• After being publicly maligned by Chaloner in Parliament, Newton’s pursuit turned personal. He embraced "dirty pool" tactics—bribing crooks, threatening mistresses, intimidating witnesses—described as “the Dirty Harry of his time” (17:57).

  “Newton became the Dirty Harry of his time.” — Ben [17:57] “He could pro beat somebody with a dildo and it wouldn’t leave a mark.” — Noel [20:08]

5. Chaloner’s Downfall: Trial and Execution

• Newton spends two years gathering enough evidence; using ethically questionable means, he finally brings Chaloner to trial (19:05).
• In March 1699, Chaloner is found guilty of high treason and sentenced to hang. In desperation, he pens increasingly pitiful and desperate letters to Newton, seeking clemency (21:22).

  “Your near murdered humble servant, W. Chaloner. It’s quite pitiful because he’s literally begging this man for his life...now he’s behind bars awaiting the noose.” — Noel [22:45]

• Newton responds with utter coldness, not even attending the execution, and later destroys records of his own investigation—likely to cover up his rule-breaking (24:00–25:06).

6. Aftermath & Reflection

• After this episode, Newton leaves the world of law enforcement and resumes his academic life as President of the Royal Society (25:27).
• The hosts contemplate other historical crime rivalries and ponder casting choices for a film version of the Newton vs. Chaloner story (26:50).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Newton’s unexpected lawman role:

  “He took his scientific acumen and cognitive prowess and applied it to the problem of crime.” — Ben [06:11]

• On Chaloner’s exploits:

  “Not only was he…counterfeiting currency, he was also counterfeiting penises.” — Ben [11:33]

• Describing the Newton vs. Chaloner rivalry:

  “There is, like, this kind of Batman and Joker or Sherlock and Moriarty relationship between these two men.” — Noel [13:55]

• On Newton’s investigative tactics:

  “He began bribing crooks for information. He started making threats. He found not only Chaloner’s associates but the wives and mistresses of his associates and started intimidating and threatening them.” — Ben [17:57]

• From Chaloner’s desperate prison letter:

  “‘I am going to be murthered…The worst of all murders, that is, in the face of justice…Unless I am rescued by your merciful hands.’” — [21:22]

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Noteworthy Segments & Timestamps

• Newton’s Royal Mint appointment and lawman pivot: [03:29–05:57]
• State of English currency, rise of counterfeiting: [06:03–08:38]
• William Chaloner’s criminal biography: [09:38–11:22]
• Chaloner’s “other” products and the hosts’ comedic digression: [10:45–11:22]
• Newton-Chaloner rivalry, counterfeiting innovations: [13:55–15:12]
• Ethically questionable investigation tactics: [17:57–19:05]
• Chaloner’s doomed letters and trial: [21:22–23:40]
• Newton destroys records after conviction: [24:00–25:06]

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Tone & Style

The episode is lively and irreverent, with the hosts riffing on historical facts, indulging in tangents about language, band names, and hypothetical T-shirts. Their banter keeps the story engaging, but they’re always grounded in well-researched historical detail.

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Takeaway

This episode exposes the little-known, noir-ish chapter of Newton’s career—his transformation into England’s top anti-counterfeiting detective, and the “Holmes vs. Moriarty” rivalry with William Chaloner. Both hosts champion the absurdity of history while sketching a vivid tableau of the crime, punishment, and eccentricity that defined this criminal duel.

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For more oddities from history, find Ridiculous History wherever you get your podcasts!

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to our weekly classic episode, Ridiculous Historians. Hey, Noel, you remember Isaac Newton?

[B]

He's the apple guy, right?

[A]

Or figs or something.

[B]

It's a fruited cake, not a cookie.

[A]

Fruited cake.

[B]

Fruited cake. Yeah, but isn't the old tale of Isaac Newton discovering gravity when the apple fell not too far from the tree and conked him on the noggin?

[A]

That's the anecdote for sure. And he also did a lot of other stuff. We know him for his scientific pursuits, like you were saying. But before we did this episode in 2019, we were not aware that he spent some time as the master of the Royal Mint.

[B]

He was an absolute sleuth when it came to spotting fake currency.

[A]

Oh, yeah, and unlike some royal positions, this was not ceremonial. He took the job of bird dogging forgers seriously. And he was getting a kind of Sherlock Holmesian about it.

[B]

No, there's a bit of a Holmes Moriarty rivalry in this story. And the Moriarty to Newton's Holmes was a fellow by the name of William Chaloner, a counterfeiting kingpin and supervillain. Big bad of today's tale.

[A]

This is an I heart podcast.

[C]

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[A]

Ridiculous history is a production of iheartradio foreign. Oh, man, oh, man, oh, man. Friends and neighbors, fellow ridiculous historians, welcome to the show. I, for one, am excited because today's episode concerns one of our favorite genres of historical individuals.

[B]

The con artist, the flim flam man, which our last episode did as well.

[A]

We have. We have a preponderance of con artists in the show, and I have no regrets about it. Who am I? I'm Ben, that's who you are.

[B]

I'm Noel. This is ridiculous history.

[A]

And who's that handsome man outside of the booth? Why that devil. As I live and breathe. That's super producer Casey Pegram.

[B]

Oh, my goodness gracious.

[A]

I love it when people say, as I live and breathe.

[B]

Well, it's funny too, because when you said that sound. Yes, I do love that expression when you said that and then the sound happened. A beautiful Glint on Casey's pearly white, very straight teeth lit up the room.

[A]

It's true. It's true. We off air? Noel and I spend a lot of time just sort of staring at Casey when we think he's not looking, you.

[B]

Know, he always sees, though.

[A]

Yeah. I'm sorry you had to find out on air, Casey.

[B]

Yeah, I know. That's fine, though.

[A]

It's fine.

[B]

It's endearing. Not creepy at all.

[A]

Not creepy at all. Let's make that a T shirt. We have so many ways to begin today's story. I guess one of the easiest ways to begin it would be to give a brief shout out to. To the king of gravity, Isaac Newton.

[B]

Can we have an air horn?

[A]

There we go.

[B]

Yes. Our boy Isaac Newton invented gravity.

[A]

Beforehand. It was pandemonium.

[B]

I know. It was nuts.

[A]

Isaac Newton was an English mathematician, an astronomer, a theologian. He was described in his day as a natural philosopher, one of the predecessors to what we would call a scientist today. He was born in December of 1642, the 25th of December. And he lived until the 1720s. 1726. 1727. Today's episode does not concern his many, many innovations and his scientific pursuits. It concerns something much more noir.

[B]

Can I also point out that in his day, he was a dead sexy sob.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Asexual.

[B]

No way. He's just like sort of a Morrissey figure. A less problematic Morrissey figure. It's.

[A]

It's not too controversial to say that a lot of people are less problematic than Morrissey.

[B]

Right. I think that's very fair.

[A]

So he did. He did, by all accounts, die a virgin. So maybe it's unfair to give him that term, asexual or ace. But he did die a virgin.

[B]

I put forth that he just didn't have time for that kind of shenanigans. He was occupying his time with more important pursuits.

[A]

Celestial pursuits and terrestrial pursuits.

[B]

Also true.

[A]

Yeah, it's true. Maybe he was just busy, sort of a Tesla figure. We often hear about Isaac Newton in relation to his many, many scientific pursuits, as well as some of his more spiritual or esoteric pursuits. But what many of us may not know. I'll come clean. What I did not know before we began researching this episode.

[B]

Nor I, Ben.

[A]

Nor I was that he also worked as a lawman of sorts.

[B]

Yeah, not only a lawman, like a sleuth. Like a Batman level detective. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. That's a good way to put it. He took his scientific acumen and his cognitive prowess and he applied it to the problem of crime. Journey with us back to 1695, England's Royal Mint found out that they had a very, very alarming problem. They had a bunch of currency in circulation, right. A large portion of that currency was fake. It was counterfeit. It was phony. And this is not a good look for the Royal Mint. It's not a good look for the economy at large. And the counterfeiting oper generations were growing increasingly sophisticated. Sort of like in the Terminator franchise, when the original robots are easily distinguishable from humans, but then they get better and better and better and increasingly difficult to identify.

[B]

And lest we forget to mention that the man who discovered this problem of counterfeit coin was Isaac Newton himself. After he was made the warden of the Royal Mint. Not to be confused with, like, Warden of the north or something like that, but it really does carry quite a weighty aura. The term warden, you know?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, and we just got new business cards, and I'm kicking myself. We could have chosen some type. Do you think they would have led.

[B]

Us to supervising Warden of production?

[A]

There we go.

[B]

That sounds very. Yeah.

[A]

When I first got business cards here way, way back in the day, because I've been here forever, they allowed me to choose my own job title. Casey, you rem. Because I was polling everybody, and I got very close to changing my job title to life coach or the Experience.

[B]

Sort of like the Edge.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but good.

[B]

What was wrong with the Edge? His guitar tune is very influential.

[A]

I just think meeting someone and having to call them the Edge, it's a preposterous expectation.

[B]

He also seems like a pretty boring dude. Does he just his whole look, he just doesn't seem. I could be wrong. I'm sure he's a great guy, but he seems like the least edgy type of dude, especially when you go by the name the Edge.

[A]

You know, nicknames are weird. And he's not hurting anyone. I'm glad he's happy. I hope he's happy with the name. I hope he doesn't feel trapped in that moniker.

[B]

Well, I'll tell you who wasn't happy. It was Warden of the Royal Mint, Sir Isaac Newton, in the year of 1696, when he made that shocking discovery that 20% of the coins that the Mint was certain circulating were in fact counterfeit. And he decided to set out on a fact finding expedition. Dare we say an investigation?

[A]

Yes, yes, we dare. Because, you see, Newton, it turns out, was quite talented as warden of the Mint, and he was able to catch quite a few counterfeiters. Yet there was One fellow very high in the world of forgery and counterfeiting. A man named William Challoner, who kept escaping Newton's grasp time after time. William Chaloner is someone who could be the subject of. Gosh. A multiple episode series all his own.

[B]

And much like our friend Mr. Fritz Dufcne in the previous episode, this gentleman was also something of a villainous figure, a villainous Renaissance man, if you will.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. A grifter. William Chaloner was B.O. sometime in 1650 to a poor family in Warwickshire. But he eventually attained great financial success through his career in counterfeiting and through his career in con artistry. He started by forging Birmingham groats. That was a English and Irish silver coin that was worth 4 pence. Or it could also be a Scottish coin originally worth 4 pence. And from that point, he moved on to creating counterfeit guineas, crowns, half crowns, banknotes, even lottery tickets. There's one side note that we have to get out of the way. He didn't just make counterfeit currency for a time. He also made and sold sexual aids.

[B]

I'm sorry, Sexual aids. Come again?

[A]

Can we say it on the show?

[B]

Come a third time.

[A]

Can we say it on the show? You think?

[B]

Oh, come on. Surely we must.

[A]

Dildos. He ate dildos.

[B]

Yeah, See, dildos is such a. A funny word because to. To many it would be considered a swear, but it is such a silly, silly word.

[A]

Yeah, it's. You know, it still somehow sounds less dirty than the phrase dongle.

[B]

Dongle is way worse. Oh, it's so bad. But, yeah, a. A false phallus.

[A]

Yes, there we go. Yes, A counterfeit phallus.

[B]

Oh, my. You know what? No, we talked about this off air.

[A]

Did we?

[B]

We did, and it's totally true. So he was counter. Not only was he count, he was also counterfeiting penises.

[A]

This is a funny episode for us because we had intended to record it earlier, before I had to leave town for a second. And when we got back together after I came back, we had an extensive, I think, what, over an hour and a half kind of quest to figure out if we had recorded this episode or not.

[B]

And I think it was because of the false phallus discussion, because we talked about it so much off air that we were like, I think we maybe did do it, you know. Oh, yeah. And then Casey, you know, on the case to the rescue, let us know, to our delight, in fact, that we had not recorded this yet. And this is what you hear before your very ears.

[A]

It was hilarious because as we do so often, the two of us couldn't figure out what we were supposed to be doing. And so we basically flamed. Casey, say, please tell us what we have or have not done. And Casey, by the way, thank you so much for keeping the ship on course.

[B]

My pleasure, Casey. Always on the case. Always perpetually on the case.

[A]

So here we are. William Challoner. He is described as a willful youth with dishonest tendencies. He is originally apprenticed as a nail maker before he begins working, working in the thriving counterfeit industry of London. In the 1670s, he purchased a large estate in the country so he could move his minting process away from the heat, away from the heat of London's law enforcement. And he had a pretty good workflow set down. He would hire middlemen who would pass the fake coins into circulation. And those guys had the tough gig in his operation because the middlemen were the ones who were often caught. And when they were caught, they were hanged.

[B]

Yikes.

[A]

Yikes indeed. And because this was such a risky business, he garnered a reputation. Sort of a Moriarty of finance, you know, a shadowy kingpin.

[B]

Holy crap. No, you're dead on. Because there is, like this kind of Batman and Joker or Sherlock and Moriarty relationship between these two men. He's sort of like the one that got away, the white whale, you know, for our buddy Isaac Newton, who. This guy was a thorn in his side because, like you said, he did a pretty good job of cleaning up the counterfeit scene. But this gentleman continued to slip through his fingers.

[A]

Yeah. And a big part of this comes about because in the 1690s, English currency was moving away from purely coinbase stuff to notes, banknotes, and paper money. And Chaloner, although he had a lot of close calls, for a long time, he avoided the law or the punishment for his crimes because the development of paper money was in advance of the laws created to ban forging paper money. Which sounds a little bit word salady. A better way to say it is that that technology will typically outpace legislation. We're running into it in 2019, we'll be running into it in the year 3000. Totally 1690s. No different, because the wheels of justice.

[B]

Grind ever so slowly while the wheels of commerce and progress tend to be a little more lightning quick.

[A]

Yeah. And his success became his undoing because he got squarely in the crosshairs of Sir Isaac, the warden himself, and Chaloner. Although he had escaped jail for numerous years and had never had to serve time, he had not escaped unscathed he had a long paper trail of arrests and accusations. And this helped paint a picture of a guy who spent a lot of time on the wrong side of the law. And he was also a rat. Did you hear about this?

[B]

No. No, I didn't. But nobody likes a rat.

[A]

Yeah. He managed to get out of legal trouble multiple times by selling out other counterfeiters. And so of the counterfeiters that he had sold out, who had been imprisoned or punished and not killed or not executed. Sir Isaac was able to question these guys and gather many people who would say, yeah, I'll go to court. I will point out that dirty rat Billy Chaloner, because I want my revenge. To which Isaac said, all right, let's make it official.

[B]

Let's do it. Let's make a deal. He may have slipped the noose, Ben, but he did not slip the clink because Newton was able to amass enough evidence and these witness testimonies to get him locked up. But it didn't really take, did it?

[A]

No, no. He bribed the prosecution star witness, paid the witness enough money to flee to Scotland, and then Chaloner was released, and he accused Newton of framing an innocent man. We should step back for a second and say that Newton knows and despises Chaloner at this point, because earlier, Chaloner had appeared before a parliamentary committee, and. And he said that Newton was incompetent, terrible at his job, and that the mint employees were the ones responsible for the epidemic of counterfeit currency. So this is two strikes against the guy in Newton's mind. And this attack on his integrity enrages him. So he decides that he is going to play dirty as well as you would call it, an old dirty pool. He. He began bribing crooks for information. He started making threats. He found not only Chaloner's associates, but the wives and mistresses of his associates and started intimidating and threatening them. In short, as Judy Dutton says in an excellent article on mental floss, Newton became the Dirty Harry of his time.

[B]

I don't understand that reference.

[A]

Dirty Harry? Are you serious?

[B]

What is he like? Is he a cop? I don't know what Dirty Harry is, Casey.

[A]

He's a cop that doesn't follow the rules, doesn't like a lot of red tape.

[B]

Ah, so he's sort of like a Serpico type figure.

[A]

He asked punks if they're feeling lucky. Yeah, it's Clint Eastwood.

[B]

He had a big giant gun, didn't he? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a big magnum. Yeah. Okay. All right, Casey, on the case, can we get a.

[A]

Do you feel lucky, punk?

[D]

I know what you're thinking, punk. You're thinking, did he fire six shots or a only five? Now, to tell you the truth, I forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this is a.44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you could ask yourself question, do I feel lucky? Well, do you, punk?

[A]

Perfect. So, yes, the comparison does hold. Because he was operating outside of the law and he spent two more years chasing down Chaloner. And eventually his ethically questionable methods give him enough evidence to put Chaloner away for good.

[B]

I picture Isaac Newton with his very expertly quaffed ringlets and his kind of ruffle shirt and some sort of velvet. What would you call that, A doublet or something like that. Like waterboarding dudes in back rooms, you know, dunking their heads in toilets and stuff like that just to get to this guy Chaloner, you know? And who knows? It could have happened just like that.

[A]

This is terrible. But for some reason I see. I see a dildo with the intimidation tactics. Can we. We should probably cut that.

[B]

No, no, no. Okay. Let's get your mind out of the gutter. He clearly would have used it as more of a blackjack kind of thing.

[A]

That's what I'm thinking.

[B]

Because he could pro beat somebody with a dildo and it wouldn't leave a mark.

[A]

I'm not like a sack of oranges. Yeah, I'm not. I mean, I'm not thinking of something sexual. I'm thinking of just intimidation.

[B]

I know. I was helping you out.

[A]

Thank you. Thanks for the save. On March 3, 1699, Challoner is found guilty of high treason. And he is sentenced to hang the very next next day. Before his sentence is carried out, several days before, Chaloner has written Newton a long letter proclaiming his innocence. And we have a little bit. We can read an excerpt, but we're not going to read the whole letter because he writes him a series of letters that go on. And here's one example. I have been close prisoner 11 weeks, and no friend suffered to come near me but my little child. And I am not guilty of any crime. And why am I so strictly confined? I do not know. I doubt, sir, you are greatly displeased with me about the late business in Parliament. But if you knew the truth, you would not be angry with me, for it was brought in by some persons against my desire.

[B]

My favorite line exer. That was wonderful. Read Ben is I am going to be murthered. It says M U R T H E R E D but then later spells it correctly. I'm not sure this is a typo on this website, the Newtonproject.ox.ac.uk but I like to that he chose to spell murdered Murthered. So he says, I'm going to be murthered. Although perhaps you may think not, but tis true, I shall be murdered. The worst of all murders, that is, in the face of justice, with an eye. So it's like Eustice. And unless I am rescued by your merciful hands.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. And one of the very last lines he has is brace, consider that these persons that thus accuse me are those formally convicted crimes and hope your worship nor the court will believe the suggestions of such evil persons against me.

[B]

That's a very similar argument to what's going on right now in the trial of drug kingpin El Chapo. Yeah, apparently, you know, the prosecution had dozens and dozens of witnesses and El Chapo's lawyer had, I think, no witnesses. And El Chapo didn't even take the stand. And his lawyer's whole defense was all of these witnesses are scum and they're just trying to, you know, get out of their own problems.

[A]

Right. Get their own plea deals.

[B]

And he signs this letter, your near murdered humble servant, W. Chaloner. It's quite pitiful because he's literally begging this man for his life. He's been bested by his nemesis and now he's behind bars awaiting the noose.

[A]

Yep. This did not work.

[B]

No.

[A]

Newton felt no pity. He even, adding insult to injury, did the ultimate snub. He did not attend the hanging. He stayed home. I guess he was busy. Maybe something was on the 17th century Netflix. Maybe he was.

[B]

You know, it was probably the crown.

[A]

It was probably the crown. Maybe he was at home nursing his ego. But everybody knew he's guilty. Quick correction. I said that he was supposed to be hanged the next day. He was sentenced the day after the trial. And he had a fortnight in which he wrote those letters.

[B]

What is that, two weeks time?

[A]

Yeah, it's a period of two weeks. And over these two weeks, that's when he writes these series of increasingly desperate letters, not just to Newton, but to Justin Railton, who was the supervising magistrate. And you can see the stages of grief they are apparent in these letters.

[B]

Let's go through them.

[A]

Of course, there are five stages. The first is denial, which he was obviously doing. Then there's anger. He was aggressive in these Letters. Then there's bargaining, which he had dubbed before by. By saying he would name other people. Then there's depression, which was probably a personal thing for him, and acceptance, which I don't think he really reached. So Newton had written during Chaloner's first trial, the one where he got away, that the counterfeiter had formed a quote, confederacy against the warden. And Chaloner could have lived a long, honest life had he let the money and the government alone after. This is very interesting, and this is kind of sketchy. After Chaloner is executed, Newton takes all the records of his investigation and burns them. He destroys all records of his involvement in the investigation. And nowadays, scholars believe that is solely to cover up the ways that he broke the law. Law in pursuit of this counterfeiter.

[B]

Geez.

[A]

So he definitely did some dirty cop tactics. He continues working in law enforcement until 1703, when he turns in his badge, figuratively speaking, and becomes president of the Royal Society. Returning to the world of academia.

[B]

Yeah, to live out his twilight years. But, man, he had a stretch there for a while where he was something of a bad cop badass, wasn't he?

[A]

Absolutely. And there ends the story of the counterfeit kingpin, William Challoner, who was hanged on 22nd March, 1699.

[B]

The physicist and the forger.

[A]

The physicist and the forger. That's wonderful. This also reminds me of a great book I would like to recommend called the professor and the Madman. Did we ever talk about this on air? We did an episode related to this guy, the Oxford English Dictionary.

[B]

Oh, okay. It doesn't ring a bell, Ben. It's all a blur for me.

[A]

It's the professor and the Madman. Tale of murder, insanity, and the making of the Oxford English Dictionary. Reminds me of the strange pairing we have here with Newton and Chaloner. And what it inspires me to think about would be other stories of these great rivalries, you know what I mean? Like the Untouchables and organized crime. I wonder what other stories are out there. There's something so compelling, so there's a high drama to it, you know?

[B]

Big time. I'd love to see a film adaptation of this rivalry.

[A]

Ooh, who would play Newton?

[B]

I'm going to say, I don't know. Maybe Benedict Cumberbatch.

[A]

Are you getting a Sherlock?

[B]

I think it's the Sherlock Mov vibe. Yeah.

[A]

I would be interested to see Steve Buscemi play either of these characters. I think he would make a fantastic Newton.

[B]

I think you're right, but I honestly think he might do better as the weird twitchy villain guy.

[A]

Yeah, because of his eyes.

[B]

Yep, those Buscemi eyes.

[A]

Ah, those Buscemi eyes. Let us know what stories of personal crime rivalries have captured your attention. And don't just let us know. You can also let your fellow listeners know by finding us on Instagra, by finding us on Twitter, or by finding us on our Facebook community page. Ridiculous Historians.

[B]

Big thanks to super producer Casey Pegram, to Alex Williams who composed our theme, to Gabe, our delightful and talented research associate, and to you ridiculous historians for checking out the show.

[A]

Speaking of checking out, if you want to see our off air, sometimes non ridiculous history related adventures, you can follow us on our very own Instagrams. I am in a burst of creativity.

[B]

Ben Bullen and I am at Embryonic.

[A]

Insider, which I don't think I've ever said this on air. I don't think I've said this to you in person ever. We've known each other for years, but I think that's a cool name.

[B]

Oh, thanks man. It's actually, it was a name of a song in a band that I was in a kind of a little bit embarrassing tidbit from my youth. Kind of like a new metal type band that you cannot find anywhere. So don't even look around for it. But we had a song called Embryonic Inside and so I checked changed it to Embryonic Insider. So there we go. That's the inside scoop on that Peek.

[A]

Behind the curtain for more inside scoops on the ridiculous, bizarre and hilarious tales of human history. Stay tuned for our upcoming episodes and swing by our website, Ridiculous History show dot com. We're in the T shirt business, as I think we've mentioned before. And you know, it's probably time for us to add some new T shirts though. My favorite and our newest is Kate and Casey on the Case.

[B]

Does it exist?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's there. It's really cool. Casey, I don't think I didn't hear you slip in that other Casey on the case sound cue. No, seriously man, you don't have to do it every time we say the phrase.

[B]

But it's fun when he does.

[A]

It's so good.

[B]

See you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.