CLASSIC: How Louisiana Almost Became a Hippo Ranching Hub

Summary

Podcast Summary: Ridiculous History: CLASSIC – How Louisiana Almost Became a Hippo Ranching Hub

Podcast: Ridiculous History by iHeartPodcasts
Air Date: January 6, 2026
Hosts: Ben Bowlin & Noel Brown
Featuring: Jonathan Strickland (The Quizter)

Main Theme:

The episode explores the early 1900s movement that almost transformed Louisiana into a hub for hippo ranching, aiming to solve the United States' meat crisis by importing hippopotamuses as livestock. The hosts dive into the historical background, the main characters behind this eccentric plan, its surprising political traction, and the weird, winding road that led—almost—to "lake cow bacon."

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene & Hippo Facts (03:36)

• Year and Mood: The hosts return in 2026, reflecting on future predictions and their usual banter before diving into history ([00:00]-[01:09]).
• Fun Hippo Facts:
  • Hippos cannot swim or float—they walk on the riverbed ([03:36], Ben).
  • Sometimes called "lake cows" or "land cows" (later corrected).
  • Hippos have “straight seahorse teeth” ([04:01], Ben and Noel banter).
• Personal Note: Ben recounts reading up on hippos during a recent trip to Korea ([06:12]-[06:46]).

2. The Great American Meat Crisis (08:08)

• Context:
  • Early 1900s America faced a severe meat shortage due to population growth, overgrazed pastures, and insufficient beef production.
  • Alternatives like vegetarianism weren’t considered viable; discussions even included eating less traditional animals such as dogs ([08:29]-[09:30], Noel & Ben).
  • The “meat question” became a national concern ([10:08], Ben).

3. The Wild Proposal: Importing Hippos (15:15)

• Congressional Solution: Robert Broussard, Congressman from Louisiana, proposed importing hippos from Africa to solve two problems:
  1. Meat shortage—hippos as a new food source.
  2. Invasive water hyacinth in Louisiana’s swamps—hippos would eat the plants and thrive in marshland ([15:15]-[17:36], Ben & Noel).
• Notable Quote:
  • “They said, let’s introduce another invasive species to solve our original invasive species problem.” ([21:04], Ben)

4. The Eccentric Champions: Burnham and Duquesne (13:02, 18:20)

• Frederick Russell Burnham:
  • Famed outdoorsman, inspiration for Indiana Jones, and foundational figure for the Boy Scouts ([13:02]-[13:51]).
  • described as "the man with the most complete life ever lived" ([13:35], Ben).
• Fritz Duquesne:
  • Cunning, “super sketchy” Boer war veteran, con man, and lifelong rival to Burnham ([18:20]-[19:08], Ben).
  • Notable Quote: Burnham called him the “human epitome of sin and deception” ([19:08], Ben).
  • The two were literal rivals—tasked with assassinating each other during the Boer War, only to team up later for the hippo cause ([19:32]-[21:20], Noel & Ben).
• New Food Supply Society:
  • Burnham and Duquesne, despite past animosity, lobbied together as “experts on African wildlife” to push the American Hippo Bill ([21:20]).

5. Political Momentum & Public Reception (22:19)

• The American Hippo Bill:
  • Sought $250,000 to import hippos to Louisiana’s swamps, supported by former President Theodore Roosevelt and the New York Times, which called hippo meat “lake cow bacon” ([22:19]-[22:52], Ben & Noel).
  • Fritz gave expert testimony to Congress—at one point, the bill looked likely to pass.
• Sudden Decline:
  • The plan fizzled quietly due to advances in industrial agriculture, rendering hippo imports unnecessary ([23:35], Ben).

6. Aftermath & Speculation (26:00)

• Alternative History Musings:
  • The hosts consider how America’s relationship with food and livestock could have been more regionalized if the plan had worked—e.g., “You have to go to Nebraska to get a good hamburger” ([26:00]-[26:37], Ben & Noel).
  • Reference to Michael Pollan’s advocacy for local food and the “farm-to-table” philosophy ([27:16], Ben).
• Recommendation: For more, read John Mooalem’s "American Hippopotamus" on The Atavist ([28:34], Noel).

7. The Quizter Segment – Fritz Duquesne’s Many Lives (30:07)

• Jonathan Strickland (“The Quizter”):
  • Appears to challenge the hosts with a historical “real or made-up” scenario game focused on Fritz Duquesne and spies ([30:07]-[34:33]).
  • Scenario revolves around the supposed rivalry between Duquesne and an English spy with a wooden leg, drawing (misleadingly) from Virginia Hall’s real story ([36:32]-[38:11]).
  • Notable Exchange:
    • “This just warns you that you can’t necessarily believe anything about Fritz Duquesne.” ([38:11], Jonathan)

8. Memorable Wrap-Up & Community Shout-Out (42:24)

• Running Gags:
  • Ongoing playful feud with musician Sheryl Crow as their “primary critic” ([41:53]-[42:33]).
  • Closing thanks to their “nemesis” Jonathan, their producer Casey, and listeners, with plugs for their Facebook group “Ridiculous Historians” ([45:20]).

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Notable Quotes

• “If things went just a little bit differently in the 1900s, your supermarket might have ended up with hippo filets.”
  — Ben Bowlin ([01:40])
• “He was the human epitome of sin and deception...a walking, living, breathing, searing, killing, destroying torch of hate.”
  — Ben on Fritz Duquesne, quoting John Mooalem ([29:19])
• “Let’s introduce another invasive species to solve our original invasive species problem.”
  — Ben Bowlin ([21:04])
• "The New York Times wanted to call this stuff lake cow bacon."
  — Ben Bowlin ([22:52])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Banter: [00:00] – [02:18]
• Fun Hippo Facts: [03:36] – [04:17]
• The Meat Crisis & Why Hippos?: [08:08] – [10:34]
• Main Characters (Burnham & Duquesne): [13:02] – [19:08]
• Hippo Bill and the Plan’s Details: [21:04] – [23:35]
• Plan’s Demise & Food System Reflection: [24:07] – [28:34]
• The Quizter & Fritz’s Legendary Exploits: [30:07] – [39:39]
• Sheryl Crow & Running Gags, Closing: [41:53] – End

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Episode Tone & Character

The tone is irreverent and playful, filled with comedic banter, tangents, and the hosts’ signature self-effacement (“This is a throwaway episode ... consider ours the CliffsNotes” – [05:19], Noel), but also surprisingly informative. The addition of “The Quizter” (Jonathan Strickland) brings a game show vibe and friendly rivalry.

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This episode is a perfect entry point for anyone fascinated by the odd turns of American history, the near-misses of culture, and how one wild idea—from hippo fillets to “lake cow bacon”—never quite made it onto American dinner plates.

Transcript

[Ben Bolan]

Fellow ridiculous historians, we're returning and it's 2026. Happy New Year.

[Noel Brown]

It's the future, man. It's the year Blade Runner was set, I think. No, maybe not. But it's. It's, you know, relative.

[Ben Bolan]

It's, you know, it's strange because just a few days into 2026, I was already thinking what a year it's been, you know.

[Noel Brown]

You know, it really, really has been a year for sure. Another one.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Also, to jump in here real quick. Blade Runner was set in 2019.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. We are past Blade Runner. We're past the Jetsons. We're boldly going into the future. And we still don't have widespread flying cars.

[Jonathan Strickland]

I know.

[Noel Brown]

And the gear and the sprocket are still the highest forms of technology that exist.

[Ben Bolan]

Right. In this episode, though, we're returning to a classic story about a time when Louisiana was different. When people were thinking ahead through their troubled present and saying, perhaps we could build a better future with the hippopotamus.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Let's do a pivot.

[Noel Brown]

Let's do a hippo pivot.

[Ben Bolan]

Hip hop, hippo, vit, hipovit.

[Noel Brown]

The hip hopopotamus rhymes is bottomless. So what were they doing they wanted. They weren't. Weren't they breeding these things for, like, meat?

[Ben Bolan]

Sure. And that guy, that guy with the shaved head, Andrew Zimmerman, he would have done this.

[Noel Brown]

You mean. You mean Bob Dylan?

[Ben Bolan]

No, I'm just kidding.

[Noel Brown]

His name was Zimmerman. I can't remember what his first.

[Ben Bolan]

The bizarre eats guy, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah.

[Noel Brown]

Loves some. Some wild meats.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. Nowadays in the us We've talked about this. In the past, beef, chicken and pork are the most common animal proteins you'll find. But if things went just a little bit differently in the 1900s, your supermarket might have ended up with hippo filets.

[Noel Brown]

You had a bit of a wild meat period, didn't you, Ben?

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, sure, yeah.

[Noel Brown]

You're still in it.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah.

[Noel Brown]

Well, check this classic episode out. There's one more classic to help us transition back into the usual published schedule. So we appreciate y' all enjoying these and hope everyone had a lovely holiday.

[Ben Bolan]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[Evan Ratliff]

Hi, Kyle, could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks.

[Ben Bolan]

Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link.

[Evan Ratliff]

But there was no link. There was no business plan. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. I'm Evan Ratliff. Here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age. Listen as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people. Check out the second season of my podcast Shell Game on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Bolan]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartradio. Let's begin today's show with some apparently irrelevant hippo facts that will come into play later in the episode. Number one. Did you know hippos cannot swim and they cannot float?

[Noel Brown]

What?

[Ben Bolan]

It's true.

[Noel Brown]

So when. Whenever you see a hippo emerge from the murky waters in like an adventure type movie, they're literally just walking on the. On the bottom of the body of water.

[Ben Bolan]

It's true. They walk or stand on surfaces below the water, like sandbanks.

[Noel Brown]

Ben, that's fascinating information.

[Ben Bolan]

Thanks, Noel. They're also called land cows. Did you see that? That was my favorite things.

[Noel Brown]

And they're also straight seahorse teeth.

[Ben Bolan]

They are. They are the straight seahorse teeth. Much like our super producer, Casey Pegram.

[Noel Brown]

Casey has the straightest teeth of anyone in this crew.

[Ben Bolan]

The most seahorse of teeth.

[Noel Brown]

Big time.

[Ben Bolan]

We've gotta set out maybe a couple of disclaimers. First off, this one's on me. I just got back into town. My body has no idea what time it is.

[Noel Brown]

Are your arms tired?

[Ben Bolan]

What day it is? My left arm's a little loopy. Yeah. But overall, I might be a bit punchy in today's episode and I might say some things that are largely irrelevant. That's okay.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Thanks.

[Noel Brown]

How is that any different than usual?

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, I mean, on either side.

[Noel Brown]

That's totally what I meant. That's totally what I meant.

[Ben Bolan]

It's true. Well, maybe it will be for the good of the show, hopefully. But we haven't.

[Noel Brown]

It usually is.

[Ben Bolan]

So far. Let's hope the streak continues. We also have a second disclaimer about today's episode.

[Noel Brown]

Big one. Massive disclaimer. Not even a disclaimer, more a pre recommendation. Our colleagues Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wilson, who you know from stuff you missed in history class fame, have covered this very topic in a quite meaty two parter. So stop what you're doing right now and listen to theirs. This is a throwaway episode that we're about to do for you.

[Ben Bolan]

Well, maybe. Maybe listen to ours first so we don't have to follow that act.

[Noel Brown]

That's fair. Let's consider ours like the CliffsNotes version and theirs the Encyclopedia Britannica version.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The primer. I think we called it off.

[Noel Brown]

That's right. Or if you're British. Primer.

[Ben Bolan]

Primer, yes. So this is a crazy story. One of our first episodes on ridiculous history was also hippo.

[Noel Brown]

It was, wasn't it? The first episode?

[Ben Bolan]

It may have been the first episode.

[Noel Brown]

The Wild Hippos of Pablo Escobar.

[Ben Bolan]

Which I think is a fascinating story. And I did check. And those hippos are still running rampant.

[Noel Brown]

Amok, amok, amok, amok.

[Ben Bolan]

Yes. Wreaking watery havoc wherever they can walk or stand in a watery surface, because, again, they neither swim nor float.

[Noel Brown]

How did you happen upon this little tidbit about the watery nature of hippos?

[Ben Bolan]

I read a lot about hippos on the plane.

[Noel Brown]

Really?

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, because I was too cheap to pay for the WI Fi and I had downloaded some articles beforehand, and that's a long flight.

[Noel Brown]

You didn't pop for the WI Fi?

[Ben Bolan]

I eventually did not, because the flight went by the North Pole. At which point, even if you pay for WI fi, there's no service.

[Noel Brown]

Did you see the pole, that barber pole that marks the spot?

[Ben Bolan]

I did not. Yet I did not. So that's going to be for the next trip, if you want to go.

[Noel Brown]

Have you revealed where you were traveling.

[Ben Bolan]

To or did we mention it? I think we mentioned on previous episodes it's possible.

[Noel Brown]

Let's just double down because it was Korea.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Traveled to Korea for a week on my continuing quest to enter not just the dmz, but what's called the Joint Protection Area, which is the blue building where you can walk across into North Korea.

[Noel Brown]

That was. Have you seen Conan Without Borders? The travel. The Conan o' Brien travel show. He goes into that room and there's, like, guards, and they're all wearing, like, sunglasses inside. And there's one side of this room where you're in North Korea, one side you're in South Korea. And him and Steven Yun from the Walking Dead do a funny little bit where they, like, broadcast the weather from each side of the room and surprise, surprise, it's the same weather.

[Ben Bolan]

You know, it's surprisingly. Well, not surprisingly. It's tricky to get into that area and any number of people or institutions can cancel it day of. So I didn't make it this time, but had a wonderful time, wonderful trip nonetheless, and will probably be returning until I can finally get into that building.

[Noel Brown]

Well, in the meantime, let's take some advantage of those.

[Jonathan Strickland]

That.

[Noel Brown]

That hippo research time you had on that plane. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What are we talking about today?

[Ben Bolan]

Let's do it today. We are talking about not just hippos or land cows. But a enormously influential role they almost played in American history and the American meat industry.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, boy, that's a whole thing unto itself. And it was a thing unto itself at this point because there just wasn't enough meat. It was the earliest of the 1900s, 1901, and the United States was in the throes of a meat shortage. And, you know, I see that and I immediately am like, well, why didn't people just start eating more vegetables?

[Ben Bolan]

Right, right. Why don't we pursue a Michael Pollan esque omnivores dilemma approach?

[Noel Brown]

Right. Which is funny because that actually does kind of figure into this a little later. But for now, let's set the scene.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. So the dawn of hippopotamus ranching, as we would later come to call it, really peaks in 1910 and starts in the early 1900s. It hits the point of, hey, it's a great idea to practice. Hippopotamus ranching really hits its Peak in 1910. There was, as you said, Noel, an alarming shortage of meat. This is a result of several factors. These were peak years of immigration and cities were exploding in terms of population. And although the meat industry itself was growing by significant leaps and bounds, it was not growing fast enough to keep up with all the new hungry people traveling to the US and being born here.

[Noel Brown]

So consequently, beef prices were through the roof. That beef bill was just astronomical.

[Ben Bolan]

I know it was putting people out of house and home just to. Just to keep their families beefed up, I guess.

[Noel Brown]

But like I said, though, I don't see any mention of seeking alternative. There's even talk of, like, eating dogs. Like, it was that bad. People just needed their meat. And I'm like, was it a taste thing? Literally? Was it like, we just really love the taste of meat over vegetables. Like, you'd think there would be more like urban farming or something would have sprung up to kind of fill that gap. But it was such a big deal. It was dubbed the meat question.

[Ben Bolan]

Yes, it was dubbed the meat question. Part of it ties into the availability of. Of pasture. Right. Of land for these animals to graze upon.

[Noel Brown]

That's right. Because meat was. Was already so popular that, you know, like we tend to do when we don't think ahead. As a country, pastures had become overgrazed because, you know, to have beef cattle, they have to graze and feed on grass in pastures. What happens when they're overgrazed?

[Ben Bolan]

Right. They. There's nowhere for the cattle to eat, and so there's no opportunity to grow them into, you know, delicious hamburgers and ribs. We do have to bracket that idea of vegetarianism just for a moment, but we will get back to it, I believe we will. So into this fray, into the midst of the meat question, come two very fascinating guys.

[Noel Brown]

Super cool.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. One named Frederick Russell Burnham and one named.

[Noel Brown]

We might need a Casey assist on this one, Casey. We've got a gentleman by the name of Fritz. D, U, Q, U, E, S, N E. I'm picturing it as a sort of Dufresne, like Andy Dufresne from the Shawshank Redemption.

[Ben Bolan]

Duquesne, Duquesne, Duquesne, Duquesne, Duquesne. Something like that, yeah. Casey on the case.

[Noel Brown]

Casey on the case. And it's funny because it's interesting to me how sometimes in French, you actually do pronounce those seemingly silent letters like one version of that. Casey was saying the S a little bit.

[Ben Bolan]

Well, the yes names especially have lots of weird exceptions. And sometimes you literally just have to check there's not like a hard and fast rule that you can always be assured is going to work.

[Noel Brown]

So double Casey on the case.

[Evan Ratliff]

Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks.

[Ben Bolan]

Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link.

[Evan Ratliff]

But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.

[Jonathan Strickland]

There's this betting pool for the first.

[Noel Brown]

Year that there's a one person billion dollar company which would have been like unimaginable without AI. And now will happen.

[Evan Ratliff]

I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award winning podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, hey, Evan.

[Evan Ratliff]

Good to have you join us.

[Jonathan Strickland]

I found some really interesting data on.

[Noel Brown]

Adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses.

[Evan Ratliff]

Listen to Shell game on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your pod.

[Ben Bolan]

So we have these guys, Frederick and Fritz. Let's. Let's examine the life of Frederick Russell Burnham. First, this guy is quoted by some sources as being the man with the most complete life ever lived. You'll hear him referred to as the inspiration for Indiana Jones. You'll hear that the Boy Scouts were created to mold young men into a more Frederick Russell Burnham esque shape, morally speaking.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, the name alone just inspires me. Frederick Russell Burnham. It just sounds like a real magic man, a real raconteur, you know. And yeah, he was an outdoorsman, I guess you could say. The early form of something like a naturalist, right?

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. He would be described as emphatically a man's man. Able, active, alert. He gave people an impression of force and self control. In 1910, Burnham was 49 years old. And in September 19th of that year he visited the Maryland Hotel in Pasadena, California.

[Noel Brown]

What happened then, Ben?

[Ben Bolan]

I'm so glad you asked. He was there to address what was known as the Humane association of California at their annual convention. This group was dedicated to the prevention of cruelty to animals. They had quickly become one of California's most powerful civic organizations. And Burnham later on in his life, now, you know, he's middle aged, he is part of an eccentric brain trust that was trying to launch their own innovative animal project off the ground. They wanted to answer the meat question and they thought that the civic minded people, the philanthropist of the Humane association of California would be really good folks to have on their side. Burnham was doing this with a very calculated air. It's proven that privately he made fun of these sorts of organizations. Oh, sure, it is off time.

[Noel Brown]

He had no time for that kind of flimflammery, that kind of pomp and circumstance. He wanted to be out there in the wild communing with nature, not behind a podium in front of a bunch of stuffed shirts delivering a speech.

[Ben Bolan]

And he thought their priorities were off, you know what I mean? So he wanted to get their support nonetheless for his idea. And it was an idea that was already circulating through the halls of D.C. in the form of a bill introduced by a Louisiana congressman named Robert Broussard. The pitch was this. We don't have enough room for beef. We're not growing enough cattle.

[Noel Brown]

But we got all these swamps and we don't quite know what to do with them. They're just kind of mucky and gross and nothing really grows there that we can use. There's also these invasive plants that are really mucking up the ecosystem. What if, what if, mind you, there was some sort of creature that couldn't really swim or float, but could exist just fine in some shallow water like that and graze on these invasive plants which you might be able to drop the name of, Ben.

[Ben Bolan]

The water hyacinth.

[Noel Brown]

Ah, yes, the pesky water hyacinth so wait, you mean there is such a creature?

[Ben Bolan]

Yes, yes. Picture this like a made for TV ad where Billy Mays says, but wait, there's more. So there is such a creature, it turns out, a creature from the continent of Africa, the creature known as the hippopotamus. The hippopotamus, which is gigantic, is native to similar ecosystems. You know, shallow, watery depths, right? Wetlands, marshy areas, vegetation. And so they said, close enough for government work. Why don't we. Why don't we walk with us here. Why don't we take some hippos, a breeding population of hippos from their native environment and bring them to Louisiana to fight the invasive water hyacinth, also turning this marshland into something productive. And then we'll eat hippos because they're delicious.

[Noel Brown]

As it turns out, maybe they might be.

[Ben Bolan]

I mean, that's the pitch.

[Noel Brown]

And it seems way less gross than eating dogs, which we were totally considering doing.

[Ben Bolan]

We were considering, as a nation, eating a lot of animals.

[Noel Brown]

A lot of animals, because we just had to have that sweet, sweet meat.

[Ben Bolan]

We're like antelopes. What else? Ostriches.

[Noel Brown]

It's what we kind of collectively refer to as bush meat, kind of.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Right.

[Noel Brown]

It's like the stuff that we wouldn't really mess with. But it's funny, obviously they have not heard our podcast about the hippos, the wild hippos of Pablo Escobar, because then they would know that hippos can be an invasive species in and of themselves. Yes, very much so. But none of this really came to pass ultimately. So they didn't get a chance to realize what a can of worms they were opening up by doing this. But there's more. There's another Fritz. Let's talk about our boy Fritz. Where does he play into this?

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, let's talk about Fritz. So Fritz is a boar. And Boers are the descendants of Dutch settlers, colonizers in Africa. This guy is super sketchy. He lives life according to John Moolam. This guy, quote, moves through life using a variety of aliases. He was a con man. And you know how we love con artists here on ridiculous history. He fought against the British in the second Boer War. And similar to Burnham, he had spent some time as kind of a freelance spy. Burnham hated Fritz and once called him the human epitome of sin and deception.

[Noel Brown]

Whereas Burnham had been described as the most complete human being who ever lived. So couldn't be more different, these two. And they ended up being quite the odd couple, didn't they?

[Ben Bolan]

Yes. Yeah.

[Noel Brown]

Because their interests aligned.

[Ben Bolan]

Right, Their interests aligned. But previously on a previous episode of Fritz and Frederick, they had been specifically tasked to murder one another.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, I didn't find any more about that. I saw that detail in the interview with this Wired writer, Moulam. But what happened with that? I need to know more. It sounded like they were maybe on the opposite sides of some sort of conflict.

[Ben Bolan]

It's true. During the second Boer War, Fritz was under orders to specifically assassinate Frederick brno. And he was under Burnham, I mean, was under a similar set of orders. It did not come to pass.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. And then apparently they were able to let bygones be bygones or, you know, death orders be something that's nicer than death orders. I don't know.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. After the Boer War, Burnham remained active in counter espionage for Britain. And apparently a lot of his job in this post war environment was just keeping an eye on Fritz, just specifically watching his activities and seeing what he was about. So when we Fast forward to 1910, when Burnham and this previously mentioned Congressman Robert Broussard are trying to popularize the idea of hippos as livestock. Burnham and Broussard found something called the New Food Supply Society. The idea being that they'll import what they see as useful African wildlife into the US to solve the meat question. And Broussard needs some experts. And so he says, who would be a good expert on African wildlife?

[Noel Brown]

These two men's men that have spent a lot of time in Africa and you know, the whole rivalry thing aside, maybe they can figure out a way to get along and work towards a common goal. And they ultimately kind of did. They formed essentially like a lobbying group kind of.

[Ben Bolan]

Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They formed a lobbying group with the New Food Supply Society. They were pushing something called the American Hippo Bill. And the American Hippo Bill was asking uncle Sam for 250 grand to import hippos into the bayous as a new food source and then to control the other pre existing invasive species, the water hyacinth. So just the emphasize and highlight the logic here. They said, let's introduce another invasive species to solve our original invasive species problem. This is similar in some ways to that scene in Fantasia, which I know I reference ad nauseam, wherein the wizard Mickey Mouse animates one mop and then quickly gets over his head and then.

[Noel Brown]

All the mops start going insane and kind of mutate into some sort of violent mob.

[Ben Bolan]

And despite this lack of knowledge of Disney films on the part of Uncle Sam at this time, and despite the Just the weird, unorthodox nature of the proposal. People are largely behind it. Even former president Theodore Roosevelt backs the plan.

[Noel Brown]

Well, he was a man's man himself, wasn't he?

[Ben Bolan]

Yes, yes he was. And the New York Times writes an article praising the taste of hippopotamus meat. And I can't remember, did I say land cow in the beginning?

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, you did.

[Ben Bolan]

Okay. It's lake cow.

[Noel Brown]

Lake cow.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Strickland]

A land cow.

[Ben Bolan]

Land cow is just a cow. That's just a cow. But these are lake cows. And the New York Times wanted to call this stuff lake cow bacon. So Fritz provides expert testimony about hippos as livestock to the House Committee on Agriculture. And the bill is in action. For a second, it looks like it has a real chance of passing.

[Noel Brown]

And then what, it just fizzles? Doesn't get nothing? Like catastrophic happened. Like it just kind of seems like it just. The whole idea. I know what it was. It was sort of on the edge of being able to engineer some of those farmland, those you know, overgrazed pastures, into new environments.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, that's it exactly. This plan would have come to pass had not other other technological innovations, industrial agriculture come into play. Yeah, the advent of industri agriculture. And so now we're in a situation where we say, hey, I guess we don't need to import a huge population of hippos and try to fundamentally reboot our livestock system. Now we can just take what we were already doing to a new level of scale.

[Noel Brown]

That's right. And this guy, this drider, John Moolam, I hope I'm pronouncing his name right. Please forgive me if I'm not. He makes a point in an interview with Wired that it was almost like starting to reference, resemble the kind of like local, you know, locally bred and slaughtered kind of like things that foodie scenes are so big on, you know, nowadays. They were talking about importing ostriches and having ostrich farms and any other kind of like animals like they could get their hands on, like antelopes and anything was really on the table. And it was this idea of having a, an incredibly local, locally sourced food system. Even though they were imported, they would be kind of bred naturally, locally, and then slaughtered locally and everything as opposed to having everything like imported.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, kind of a farm to table philosophy.

[Noel Brown]

That's the one I was looking for. Yes, sir.

[Evan Ratliff]

Hi, Kyle, could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks.

[Ben Bolan]

Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one Page business plan for you. Here's the link.

[Evan Ratliff]

But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.

[Jonathan Strickland]

There's this betting pool for the first.

[Noel Brown]

Year that there's a one person billion dollar company which would have been like unimaginable without AI. And now will happen.

[Evan Ratliff]

I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award winning podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people. Oh, hey Evan, good to have you join us.

[Jonathan Strickland]

I found some really interesting data on.

[Ben Bolan]

Adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses.

[Evan Ratliff]

Listen to Shell game on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Bolan]

It's weird when you consider this because we're at a pivotal point in history and it's incredibly tempting to speculate how things would be in the modern restaurants of 2019 had this plan and similar propositions succeeded. Would we be in a situation where food is more regional or livestock is more regional? Would we be in a situation where someone says, well, you have to go to Nebraska to get a good hamburger. That's right, because that's where we have cows.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. No, that's certainly an absurd thought, you know, considering the way things are done these days.

[Ben Bolan]

It seems like it now. Right, it seems like it now. And you know, one of the things that mystifies a lot of my friends who visit the US from out of the country is just the ubiquitous nature of food. You can, you can get anything anywhere.

[Noel Brown]

Well, and if you think about like in Japan, for example, like, like proper wagyu beef, isn't that very regional? Like that, like to actually get it that where it's actually the real deal. Because it's obviously it's one of those things that can be thrown around. Like you'll even see it on the menu at like Chili's or something, Wagyu beef sliders or whatever.

[Ben Bolan]

Right. It's true. And this is where we see Michael Pollan returning. Because Michael Pollan, who writes quite extensively about the problem of agriculture, the problem of industrial agriculture, he would argue that ultimately it is better and more sustainable for us to pursue as a species these sorts of regional models of food ways. You know what I mean? He would say that had the hippo industry taken off, it would have been ultimately better for the planet, you know, that is not where we are now. Now we are in a reality where we could, the three of us and you listening, we could all travel in different directions in the lower 48 states for sure, and then pretty much order the same thing. We could find the same thing anywhere.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, I mean, there was a time where the idea of getting seafood in a landlocked part of the country would have been insane, but not so much anymore with refrigeration technology here in Atlanta, especially because we are near such a huge shipping hub with at the airport, there's constantly flux and things coming through, you know.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, you can get genuine wagyu beef here.

[Noel Brown]

That's probably true. I'm sure it is. Yeah, I'm sure it is. I really recommend there is behind a paywall, but that this writer, John Moolam, wrote a piece for the Atavist website called American Hippopotamus and I read some excerpts from it and it's very, very good writing. He goes into the backgrounds of these two very fascinating men in a very deep dive way and talks through this whole problem and situation and what ultimately came of it.

[Ben Bolan]

It is also the source of, or it's the first time I found this quote. It's the source of my favorite quotation about Fritz Du King. He was described as not only the human epitome of sin and deception, but get this, Noel. A walking, living, breathing, searing, killing, destroying torch of hate.

[Evan Ratliff]

Whoa.

[Ben Bolan]

I don't think that made it into the Congressional Record.

[Noel Brown]

I don't think so either, but it made it into the podcast and I think there's not much of a better way to wrap this up than with that, my friend.

[Ben Bolan]

That's true. That's true. This ends our tale of the would be hippopotamus livestock empire that never quite came to pass and now is currently relegated to the hall of Good, but ultimately unsuccessful ideas such as giraffe ranches and ostrich farms. We hope that you enjoyed today's episode. Let us know what we. Oh no.

[Noel Brown]

It's time.

[Ben Bolan]

Gentlemen.

[Jonathan Strickland]

I've been here the whole time.

[Ben Bolan]

Jonathan Strickland, AKA the Quizter. It is true, you have been here.

[Noel Brown]

Yes. If you heard any.

[Jonathan Strickland]

The fact that you wouldn't acknowledge my existence for half an hour really hurts.

[Noel Brown]

I'm sorry, man. If you heard any weird, labored, evil breathing. That was Strickland on the mic a couple of times.

[Ben Bolan]

He rolled his eyes so hard that I'm pretty sure it translated to audio Listen, Ben.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Listen, listen, Ben.

[Ben Bolan]

I'm listening. Listen, I'm here.

[Jonathan Strickland]

You're talking about my boy Fritz and you're casting aspersions left and right. I can't let this just go by, Ben. Fritz is my boy.

[Noel Brown]

He is something of a super villain.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Let me tell you, you have not scratched the surface of Fritz. Fritz was an insurance scam walking down the streets. He was in the movie business. He worked for RKO Pictures. He actually was arrested for insurance fraud.

[Noel Brown]

He sounds like he needs his own episode.

[Ben Bolan]

He does.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Oh, he's amazing. And guess what? We're going to to test your knowledge about Fritz Duquesne right now. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, if you don't understand what's happening, I don't blame you. I don't understand it myself. And I don't even have the excuse of an international flight like Mr. Bolin. No, what we are going to do is I'm going to pose a scenario to these two gentlemen. They will have three minutes to discuss the scenario between the two of them. And they may ask questions of me during those three minutes to determine whether the scenario is in fact historical or if I made it Upsies. And so this time, as always, I have to come up with an arbitrary rule for you to say or do before you ask a question. This time because one of the many things Fritz Du Kahn was known for was during both world wars, he was a spy for the German government. So before you ask any questions, you will have to preface it with Achtung, baby.

[Noel Brown]

I like that. One of your underappreciated U2 records.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Really? That's why I was kind of. I was like, it's both thematic and we can bring some attention.

[Noel Brown]

I think. I think it is. I think that's sort of considered one of their lesser works.

[Jonathan Strickland]

I would.

[Ben Bolan]

Vato's really broken up about that.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Anyway, I will give you your scenario and then we will start the enormous grandfather clock for its three minutes.

[Ben Bolan]

Yep, I'm stretching now. I've got to run all the way across this gigantic shipping container.

[Jonathan Strickland]

One of those 12 hour flights and economy is going to do that to you. All right, here we go. Here's your scenario. Fritz Dukan, as you mentioned, was one of the experts consulted for the happy POTUS plan for Louisiana. That's what I used to call hippopotamuses when I was a little tyke.

[Ben Bolan]

That's adorable.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Disney thought so too. But Duquesne was hardly a reliable resource. He was a con man. He was a self promoter. He was a big game hunter. He Actually went on big game hunts with Teddy Roosevelt, a spy for the Germans with a real grudge against Britain. He had two main rivals in his career. One you've already mentioned, the fellow hippo advocate, Frederick Russell Burnham, whom I trust you remember from literally moments ago. But his other rival, which had a very similar story in some ways, was an English spy named Vernon Hall. Hall had never crossed paths with Duquesne, which is fortunate, because, like Burnham, Duquesne and Hall were pledged to kill one another. They each had orders to kill each other. They were very similar in a lot of ways, except for one major one. Duquesne was a spy, but loved attention and would bring attention on himself all the time, even posing as a supposed British soldier with the Australian Light Cavalry at one point. But hall was a master of blending in and not being noticed, which is particularly fascinating considering the fact that he had a wooden leg. Start the timer.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, okay. Okay, I'm running. I'm running.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Go.

[Noel Brown]

Okay. Are you okay, Ben? You really took a running leap at that wall.

[Ben Bolan]

I'm a little winded.

[Noel Brown]

You look a little flattened.

[Ben Bolan]

You know what? I'll be good for the three minutes it takes us to figure this out. Achtung, baby.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yes, Mr. Bolin.

[Ben Bolan]

So are you saying that Vern. Wait, are you saying Fritz had a wooden leg?

[Jonathan Strickland]

No, I'm saying Vernon hall had the wooden leg.

[Ben Bolan]

Vernon Hall.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Fritz loved attention. Vernon hall was the opposite.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. Loved his prosthetics. Okay.

[Noel Brown]

Actung, baby. Yes, give me, like, the logline version of the entire question.

[Jonathan Strickland]

All right. Was Fritz Duquesne arch nemeses with not just one, but two other spies? The second being Vernon hall, an English spy active, by the way, during World.

[Noel Brown]

War II, in addition to our other player in our. In today's story, Burnham being the other.

[Jonathan Strickland]

One from the Boer War. So that was much, much, much earlier.

[Ben Bolan]

So.

[Noel Brown]

So they were. He was kind of an assassin.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, he had been ta. He had been tasked to assassinate more than one person.

[Noel Brown]

Okay, so then it does seem likely that he. I mean, they. They weren't necessarily mortal enemies because they had beef with each other. They were mortal enemies because they were assigned by someone higher than them than their pay grade to do harm to.

[Ben Bolan]

One another, at least initially.

[Noel Brown]

Initially. So that being the case, it does seem likely that that would happen more than once. Or at least possible.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna. You know what? I. I'm gonna ask. I. I think I've made up my mind. I've. I've cast my lot, but I'm gonna Ask another question. Just because I. I like the bit we're doing.

[Noel Brown]

I do, too. I like saying it's. It's got good mouth feel, baby.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yes, Mr. Bolin.

[Ben Bolan]

I just wanted to say it.

[Jonathan Strickland]

That's fair.

[Ben Bolan]

Okay.

[Noel Brown]

You thinking true?

[Ben Bolan]

I'm thinking true. Man.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, gosh, we've been on such a good streak.

[Ben Bolan]

I know.

[Noel Brown]

I hate to squander it, but I'm thinking true, too.

[Ben Bolan]

All right. Are we gonna lock it in?

[Noel Brown]

Let's do it. All right. Right.

[Ben Bolan]

Three, two, one.

[Noel Brown]

True. Damn it.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Oh, Mr. Bolan. Mr. Bolan, you are going to kick yourself so very hard. First of all, Fritz Duquesne was.

[Noel Brown]

He can do it too. He's quite flexible.

[Jonathan Strickland]

He was, in fact, a spy during both world wars, World War I and World War II. On behalf of the Germans. He did have a very strong anti British sentiment deep in his soul. He had been put into prison and broke out numerous times. Although he was eventually caught and tried and eventually died in shortly after being released because his health had gotten so poor while he was in prison for 14 years. But there was no Vernon Hall. There was, however, a spy with a wooden leg named Virginia Hall. Virginia hall was an American spy, Mr. Boland.

[Noel Brown]

Now that's. That's dirty Pool Oil.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Not only had a wooden leg, and while he was a spy, worked on behalf of the French Resistance. Was a. Was an American spy working in France. There's an entire building at the CIA named after her.

[Ben Bolan]

Why do you keep saying my last name this way?

[Noel Brown]

I was a part of this, too.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Because Mr. Bolan in particular should know more about the CIA.

[Noel Brown]

Hey, now. Hey, now. No, no doxing here.

[Ben Bolan]

Come on.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Oh, wow.

[Noel Brown]

That's.

[Ben Bolan]

That's.

[Noel Brown]

That's Ben's story. Now listen, I called dirty pool. Cause you literally just flipped the gender.

[Jonathan Strickland]

No, no, I also said he was an English spy, not an American spy, but I didn't give you any details about what he did as his spy work in World War II.

[Noel Brown]

Okay. But my intuition of the truthishness of the story still held true.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Well, this just warns you that you can't necessarily believe anything about Fritz Duquesne.

[Ben Bolan]

Okay. That's well written. Yeah, that'd be a good takeaway, but I feel like it'd also. We can't necessarily believe anything you say.

[Jonathan Strickland]

That's kind of the point of the segment.

[Ben Bolan]

I feel like I'm gonna carry this off air with us.

[Jonathan Strickland]

But here's what. I charge you both. I charge you both. You should do two companion episodes. One specifically about Burnham and the legendary exploits of Burnham and one specifically of Duquesne and the legendary. Some obviously fictional exploits. He really did pose as a British soldier who had led an Australian Light Cavalry.

[Noel Brown]

He had created an entire mythology.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Mythology including being bayoneted three times and gassed four times.

[Noel Brown]

To what end? This was his cover story, like, because.

[Ben Bolan]

He liked the attention.

[Noel Brown]

He just wanted. He's got.

[Jonathan Strickland]

He liked dressing up in the cavalry uniform and having photographs taken of him. There are faces, famous photographs of him in that. In that outfit.

[Noel Brown]

To be caught would be a death sentence. Yes. So he was just totally rolling the dice. Oh, yeah, he just.

[Jonathan Strickland]

He just love. He relished the attention.

[Ben Bolan]

But we've all been there, you know what I mean? Like, it's true.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Super villainy.

[Ben Bolan]

You get off work on a Friday, next thing you know, it's Sunday, you're in a different country and you're dressed like a member of their military. Stuff just happens. Yeah.

[Jonathan Strickland]

So we know what happened in Korea.

[Ben Bolan]

All right. Hey, speaking of Segways, Jonathan Strickland, AKA the Quizter. It looks like you've won the battle, but not the war.

[Jonathan Strickland]

I'm winning the war too, but go ahead.

[Ben Bolan]

Come on, man. And it just occurred to me, Noel, this is the first time in 2019 that we have had our friend slash nemesis on the show.

[Noel Brown]

I really like this one. Usually this is the time where I kind of low key snark at the Quizzter here, but no, that was very well played, sir.

[Ben Bolan]

Very well.

[Noel Brown]

And he literally gave us two new episode topics. So I do need to point something out real quick. I recently discovered something. I'm a big fan, as I think we all are, of Scott Aukerman and Comedy Bang Bang, the television show Comedy Bang Bang. There is an episode wherein Tom Green plays a character called the Quizzler. And it's utter parallel thinking. Very similar arch villain type character to you. The Quizzler, Jonathan Strickland. I just wanna point out that this was not lifted. This was just simply parallel thinking. And I saw it with my buddy and he was like, wait a minute. We just.

[Jonathan Strickland]

We just know that brilliance sometimes comes in pairs, you know, like. Like calculus.

[Noel Brown]

Exactly, exactly. I just wanted to put that out there real quick lest anyone accuse us of. Of ripping off this segment.

[Ben Bolan]

Quister is also a better name. I agree objectively that T in the middle really throws it off.

[Noel Brown]

It's got a good mouth feel. So.

[Jonathan Strickland]

So. Just like achtung, baby.

[Ben Bolan]

Just like achtung, baby. So thank you so much for coming on the show, Krister. We will get you next time. As I'm shaking my fist at the air, we do also have to. We have to bring up one thing. I don't want to make the show too long, but off air. Jonathan, you learned second, or perhaps thirdhand about this show's checkered past with the musician Sheryl Crowe.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yes. Something about limericks that popped up, and I don't fully understand what's happening.

[Noel Brown]

I don't remember the limerick side.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah, that popped up on the group.

[Noel Brown]

The group? Yeah, the Ridiculous Historians on Facebook.

[Jonathan Strickland]

What's with the Sheryl Crow thing?

[Ben Bolan]

She is our now you're our nemesis.

[Jonathan Strickland]

I'm your branded nemesis as assigned by contractually obligated nemesis. Every podcast has one. It's just I'm the only one who's allowed on mic.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, it's like a Burnham Duquesne thing. You know what I mean? Like, there's rivalry, but we respect each other. And this is not the case with the popular musician Sheryl Crow, who we discovered is our primary critic online and off.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Really? Sheryl Crow criticized you?

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. I mean, no press is bad press, I guess, but geez, she has got some harsh barbs for your boys.

[Ben Bolan]

Personal, you know. Really?

[Noel Brown]

Yeah.

[Ben Bolan]

And, you know, we're glad. We're glad that she is around because it turns out that most of our subscription numbers do come from Sheryl Crow.

[Noel Brown]

You know, Every day is a winding road, my friend. Yes.

[Evan Ratliff]

Yay.

[Jonathan Strickland]

So.

[Noel Brown]

So what you're saying, Winding road, Next.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Concert tour, we should just be out in the parking lot selling ridiculous history T shirts.

[Ben Bolan]

That's right.

[Jonathan Strickland]

All right. Yeah, I gotcha.

[Ben Bolan]

We just wanted to be transparent with you because we know that you are such an ardent fan of Sheryl Crow.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Well, dude, now I'm growing more so every day.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, wow.

[Noel Brown]

You guys should league up. Maybe.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Have our own Injustice League. Excellent.

[Noel Brown]

I like it. Well, while you're waiting for that hellish combination to coalesce, you can send us an [e-mail] if you would like to send us any musings, any thoughts about this or any other episode suggestions. We love that. You can hit us up on our Facebook group, the Ridiculous Historians.

[Ben Bolan]

Yes. And you can also find our off air personal adventures at our Instagrams. I am at Benbolan.

[Noel Brown]

I am Bryonic Insider. And do you have any socials you'd like to pitch?

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah, plug on Strickland. I post cute pictures of my dog Tybalt.

[Ben Bolan]

Yes, very cute dog. There's no H in the john there.

[Noel Brown]

That's right.

[Ben Bolan]

So you can also find more of Jonathan working under his Clark Kent alter ego at his show Tech Stuff, where you. How would you describe tech stuff?

[Jonathan Strickland]

I'd say that tech stuff. Gotta drop the whole quizter thing here. Tech stuff is just about. It's about technology and about culture and about how those two things intersect. So some episodes are a little more technology focused, where we talk about how a technology actually works. Sometimes we're talking about how a technology has shaped our lives and how we in turn, have shaped the evolution of that technology. So if you're interested in anything from an iPhone to a catapult, I've covered it on tech stuff.

[Ben Bolan]

That's true. That's true. This show's been a decade in the.

[Jonathan Strickland]

Yeah, there's more than a thousand episodes.

[Ben Bolan]

So get started now for. For your next podcast binge opportunity, tune into tech stuff. We'd also like to thank, of course, our super producer, Casey Pegram and Alex Williams, who composed our track.

[Noel Brown]

And we'd also like to thank Gabe, our amazing research associate. And of course, we'd like to thank you, the listening public. Wow, that's a very clinical way of referring to our friends out there in podcast land. I'll never do that again. But seriously, the show wouldn't be anything without you. And if you want to hang out with your fellow listeners, check out that group we mentioned earlier, the ridiculous historians on Facebook.

[Ben Bolan]

I'm not looking forward to checking out our score with the quizter. There's a score?

[Noel Brown]

Is there someone doing a spreadsheet?

[Ben Bolan]

I don't know if there's a spreadsheet, but everyone knows we're a couple behind.

[Noel Brown]

That's fair. I think we. I think we evened it up last time and now we're behind again.

[Ben Bolan]

We got close.

[Noel Brown]

We did get close.

[Jonathan Strickland]

I think you were. I think you were one behind.

[Ben Bolan]

Okay. Yeah, because of course you're keeping count.

[Jonathan Strickland]

No.

[Noel Brown]

Imagine that.

[Ben Bolan]

All right, that's the show.

[Noel Brown]

See you next time. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Evan Ratliff]

Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks.

[Ben Bolan]

Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link.

[Evan Ratliff]

But there was no link. There was no business plan. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. I'm Evan Ratliff here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age. Listen, as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people.

[Ben Bolan]

Check.

[Evan Ratliff]

Check out the second season of my podcast, shell game on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Bolan]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.