CLASSIC: Oregon Was a White Supremacist Paradise

Summary

Ridiculous History: CLASSIC - Oregon Was a White Supremacist Paradise

Release Date: March 15, 2025

Hosts: Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown
Podcast: Ridiculous History by iHeartRadio

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Introduction

In this classic episode of Ridiculous History, hosts Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown delve into the unsettling yet fascinating history of Oregon, a state today renowned for its progressive and vibrant culture, particularly in cities like Portland. Contrary to its modern reputation, Oregon's early days were marked by overt white supremacy and exclusionary practices that have left a lasting impact on its demographic and social landscape.

Historical Background: Oregon Country

[07:43 - 08:33]
The episode begins by exploring the Oregon Country, a vast territory established in 1818 through a joint agreement between the United States and Britain. This region encompassed present-day Oregon, Washington State, and parts of Idaho. President James K. Polk, an ardent expansionist, was determined to assert American dominance over the territory, primarily driven by the lucrative fur trade interests held by the British. The slogan "54-40 or Fight" encapsulated the tension, referencing the northern latitude line that demarcated the contested boundary.

Exclusion Laws: Foundations of White Supremacy

[10:35 - 16:19]
As Oregon moved towards statehood, the establishment of its constitution in 1857 revealed deeply ingrained racist ideologies. In 1844, the provisional government enacted the Exclusion Law, which not only banned slavery but also sought to expel African Americans from the territory.

Noel explains, “The exclusion law that was enacted... allowed slaveholders to hold on for up to three years. But after that, any freed black person was required to leave Oregon” [12:19].

Ben adds, "[...] any African American who remained in Oregon after they were freed would be flogged, whiplashed, and forcibly expelled from the country." [12:22]

This law, known as the Burnett Lash Law [14:14], named after Peter Hardiman Burnett, mandated severe punishments for those who resisted expulsion, including repeated public lashing every six months until departure.

Key Figures: Peter Hardiman Burnett

[39:55 - 44:28]
The narrative centers around Peter Hardiman Burnett, a pivotal yet notorious figure in Oregon's racist history. Burnett, a former slave owner from Missouri, was instrumental in crafting and enforcing exclusionary laws aimed at maintaining an all-white state. His extreme measures included:

• Enforcement of the Burnett Lash Law: Inflicting physical punishment on African Americans who defied expulsion orders.
• Legal Manipulations: As a lawyer, Burnett successfully maneuvered legal venues to favor his racist agendas, such as facilitating the escape of Mormon leaders from frontier conflicts [43:23].
• Consistent Racism: Burnett's racism extended beyond African Americans to other minority groups, including Chinese immigrants, showcasing his unwavering commitment to white supremacy [46:57].

Despite his abhorrent actions, Burnett's political influence persisted, eventually leading him to become California's first governor. His tenure was marked by continued efforts to exclude black and Chinese populations, although these attempts often met with resistance and eventual failure [47:35].

Legacy and Modern Reflections

[26:16 - 42:35]
The exclusionary policies established during Oregon's early statehood set a precedent for systemic racism that lingered long after the laws themselves were repealed. Although the 14th Amendment in 1866 aimed to nullify such discriminatory practices by ensuring equal protection under the law, Oregon initially resisted its ratification [28:51]. It wasn't until 1927 that the exclusion clauses were formally removed from the state constitution [38:56]. However, the remnants of these racist ideologies persisted, influencing modern-day demographics and contributing to isolated pockets of neo-Nazi activity within the state [03:52], particularly outside the liberal hub of Portland.

Renowned academics like Walida Imarisha, a professor at Portland State University, emphasize that Oregon's historical stance was not rooted in a desire for racial justice but rather in the pursuit of a "white man's land" [26:16]. This foundation has fostered a complex legacy where Portland's progressive image coexists with its racially exclusionary past and present challenges.

Notable Quote:
“Oregon was birthed at this intersection of being anti-slavery and anti-black. But in no way was Oregon anti-slavery because they believed in racial justice. They were anti-slavery because they considered this to be white man's land.”
— Walida Imarisha [26:16]

Cases of Enforcement and Resistance

[24:43 - 33:24]
The podcast recounts specific instances of how exclusion laws were enforced:

• Jacob Vanderpool Case: In 1851, Vanderpool, owner of a saloon and boarding home, was expelled solely based on his race, as documented by Salem Public Library records. Judge Thomas Nelson ordered him to leave Oregon within 30 days [25:07].

• Jeremy Joseph Christian Incident: A more contemporary example involves Jeremy Joseph Christian, who committed racially motivated violence in Portland, highlighting the enduring presence of extremist ideologies [33:04].

Contemporary Implications and Ongoing Struggles

[33:04 - 43:23]
The episode underscores that Oregon's struggle with racism is not merely a historical footnote but a continuing issue. Despite progress, the state still grapples with the legacy of its exclusionary past. Modern efforts by individuals and organizations aim to bridge the racial divides and foster a more inclusive community. However, the persistence of hate groups and racially motivated violence indicates that Oregon's white supremacist foundations continue to influence its present-day society.

Conclusion

Ben and Noel provide a compelling exploration of Oregon's paradoxical history as an anti-slavery yet staunchly white supremacist state. Through detailed examination of exclusion laws, influential figures like Peter Burnett, and the lingering effects on modern society, the episode paints a comprehensive picture of how historical prejudices have shaped and continue to influence Oregon's identity.

Final Insight:
"Oregon became a state in 1859, and it was the only state in history so far that entered as a whites-only state. So anti-slavery, but only because they were such white supremacists. And that's mind-boggling."
— Ben Bowlin [23:52]

The hosts wrap up by recommending further resources, such as the documentary Local Color, which delves deeper into Oregon's racial history and the ongoing fight for civil rights within the state.

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Notable Quotes:

• "The exclusion law... allowed slaveholders to hold on for up to three years. But after that, any freed black person was required to leave Oregon." — Noel Brown [12:19]

• "Oregon was birthed at this intersection of being anti-slavery and anti-black... They were anti-slavery because they considered this to be white man's land." — Walida Imarisha [26:16]

• "Oregon became a state in 1859, and it was the only state in history so far that entered as a whites-only state." — Ben Bowlin [23:52]

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This episode of Ridiculous History serves as a sobering reminder of how deeply entrenched racism can shape the foundations of a society, leaving lasting scars that echo through generations. It challenges listeners to reevaluate the narratives of progressive cities by uncovering the often overlooked and disturbing histories that lie beneath.

Transcript

[Ben]

Fellow ridiculous historians, we are returning to you with a classic episode. This is True Story, one of the first episodes we did when we had decided we were going to do an episode about every state.

[Noel]

Yeah, that's true. And did you know, I sure didn't at the time. That Oregon, the very progressive and crunchy state of Oregon, think of places like Portland, of course, was once in fact a completely right leaning white supremacist haven where people of color were not allowed to own property, were kept out. And it's something that very weirdly has affected the legacy of that part of the state in terms of like the makeup of its population to this very day.

[Ben]

If I can jump in real quick.

[Noel]

What'S kind of sad is there's still.

[Ben]

A lot of this in Oregon. Absolutely.

[Noel]

We talk about that in the fringes. Not certainly in Portland, where it's very liberal and all that, but there is a lot of little pockets of really bad neo Nazi activity in Oregon.

[Ben]

In fact, Oregon is unique in that they never allowed slavery as a state. And the reason they didn't allow slavery is because they were that racist. This is a true story. We couldn't be more happy to welcome you to this classic episode featuring the man, the myth, the legend, our pal Robert Evans, the creator of behind the Bastards. Robert, just an advancement man. Thanks for hanging out with us. He's always such a gas.

[Noel]

Back in 2018. Thank you to past Robert. You're a good guy and a great podcaster and researcher and super excited to have this one come out as a classic. Let's roll it.

[Robert Evans]

Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here?

[Ben]

Ow. Go slower.

[Robert Evans]

From Blumhouse TV, iHeart podcasts and Ember 20 comes an all new fictional comedy podcast series. Join the flighty Damien Hirst as he unravels the mystery of his vanished boyfriend. I've been spending all my time looking for answers about what happened to Santi and what's the way to find a missing person. Sleep with everyone he knew, Obviously. Listen to the hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Maria Tremarki]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarki.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together, we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarki]

Each season we explore a new theme. From poisoners to art thieves.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Maria Tremarki]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and Mocktails inspired by each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bob Pittman]

Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast Math and Stories from the frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some folks across across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like chairman and CEO of Health Beauty, Tarang Amin, legendary singer, songwriter and philanthropist Jewel.

[Ben]

Being a rock star is very fun, but helping people is way more fun.

[Bob Pittman]

And Damian Maldonado, CEO of American Financing.

[Ben]

I figured out the formula. I just have to work hard, then that's magic.

[Bob Pittman]

Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math and the ever important creative spark, the magic. Listen to math and Magic on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Ben]

My name is Brendan Patrick Hughes, host of Divine Intervention. This is a story about radical nuns in combat boots and wild haired priests trading blows with J. Edgar Hoover in a hell bent effort to sabotage a war.

[AJ Jacobs]

J. Edgar Hoover was furious. He was out of his mind and.

[Ben]

He wanted to bring the Catholic left to its KN. Listen to Divine Intervention on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the show, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Ben.

[Noel]

I'm Noel. Wow, this is like a very standard intro we're trying today.

[Ben]

Yeah, we're going straight for it. But we are only able to make this show, of course, with the assistance of our esteemed third member, friends and neighbors, super producer Casey Pegram.

[Noel]

Sort of a vanilla opening, would you say? Very white bread.

[Ben]

A little homogenous.

[Noel]

Little bit.

[Ben]

Yes. Yes. Today we are. Well, let's start in the modern day Noel. For a long time, neither of us had ever been to Portland until pretty recently.

[Noel]

It's true, I only spent a little bit of time there. I think you had a little bit more of a fully fleshed out Portland experience. But will you tell me, Ben, is the dream of the 90s in fact still alive in Portland?

[Ben]

Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed the town. I thought it was surprising I was diplomatic enough not to directly mention the comedy show Portlandia to anybody.

[Noel]

That gets really old.

[Ben]

I am sure it does. It's like when people visit our city and call it Hotlanta.

[Noel]

Yeah, only I would say this is even more egregious. Probably people running around and say, put a bird on it.

[Ben]

Yes. And Portland has this national reputation, at least for being a very progressive city. Right face tattoos are cool. Marijuana is decriminalized.

[Noel]

The streets are paved in marijuana.

[Ben]

In fact, in Portland it does have a particular smell. And in general, people would see it as sort of a bastion of left leaning culture.

[Noel]

Yeah, yeah, super chill. You know, you can, you can buy a sandwich for a song in Portland.

[Ben]

Literally.

[Noel]

It doesn't have to be a good.

[Ben]

Song, it's just a song.

[Noel]

Yeah, a song. Or you know, a little soft shoe or maybe you got a one man band kind of Dick Van Dyke situation going on there.

[Ben]

I did see a one man band when I was there. Did you see that guy?

[Noel]

No, I just pulled that out of my ear.

[Ben]

Well, you are correct. And there, there are one man bands in Portland. There are also numerous amazing things, amazing bits of history. One of our co workers, a guy named Nathan, is actually from Oregon and he assured us that Portland is more of a cultural exception to the rule nowadays.

[Noel]

Yeah, I could see that. I'm actually wearing my Timberline lodge hat right now.

[Ben]

Oh, you are?

[Noel]

That I bought at the Portland airport. And as you might imagine, at the Portland airport, not a chain restaurant in sight, my friend. All of the shops sell handmade artisanal goods. I bought some really cute little pieces of pottery there for me, mom.

[Ben]

Oh, that's sweet of you, man.

[Noel]

And this really dope hat, it is a great hat.

[Ben]

So it's safe to say that you and I are fans of Portland and would travel there again in the future.

[Noel]

Sure.

[Ben]

At least modern Portland. Right?

[Noel]

Right. I don't think I would want to travel there in a time machine to pass.

[Ben]

Yes, yes. Today's episode is about the origins of Oregon, Portland in particular. Wow. One take.

[Noel]

Or as it's called here in some of these articles that we're looking at the Oregon country.

[Ben]

Yeah, Oregon Country. That might sound weird to some people. What is Oregon Country?

[Noel]

Yeah, I kept seeing it and it was a little weird sounding and it was confusing, but I figured it out with my Internet sleuth skills. What would now be modern day Oregon, Washington State and Idaho was all kind of clustered together in this one big old chunk of land collectively referred to as the Oregon Country.

[Ben]

Yeah. And this was, let's see, way back in 1818, right? The US and Britain agreed to jointly occupy this.

[Noel]

Yeah, that seems like a, like a odd couple kind of situation. And then I think the US started getting a little greedy and Being like, you know what, we kind of want this for our. For our own. We're going to turn this into some states.

[Ben]

Mm, yeah. Because the British wanted to be in the area, in Oregon country, mainly to engage in the fur trade.

[Noel]

That's right. And James K. Polk, who was an expansionist president. Right. Really wanted to make this our own and not share, not go halfsies with the Brits anymore. So that ultimately happened. They negotiated. They decided it wasn't worth going to war over it. The Brits did anyway. And there was some back and forth. And there's a really great slogan that the northerners used. It was 5440 or fight. And 5440 was talking about the coordinates, the latitude that marked the northernmost part of this territory.

[Ben]

And during these negotiations, the US's first proposal was that the territory be cut in half. Right. With that border at the 49th parallel. And the British rejected it. And so the expansionists, many of whom were anti slavery northerners, which is super important for this part of the story, they are the ones who called for more American aggression. Get out there, be a big dog. 54, 40 or fight.

[Noel]

It's hard to say. You did really well with that, Ben. 54:40 or fight.

[Ben]

It's tough. You really nail it.

[Noel]

It's fun. When you really get it right, though, it gives you a sense of accomplishment, as I'm sure they felt when they finally arrived at a pretty dec deal with the Brits where they divided the territory along the 49th parallel. Yeah, so that's pretty close to 54, I guess. What's the 40 though? 54 40.

[Ben]

Like minutes, divisions of degrees.

[Noel]

So it's like a decimal kind of, right?

[Ben]

Yeah, kind of.

[Noel]

Interesting, interesting. So this is where we end up with Oregon needing, you know, to become a state. And when you become a state, what do you do? You have to have a state constitution.

[Ben]

And as we know, constitutions are not generally made overnight. They often reflect common practices, goals, or even existing laws that a community has practiced or written down beforehand. And Oregon had its own pre existing laws. In 1844, they passed something called the Exclusion Law. And this was enacted by the provisional government of the region at the time. What did the exclusion law do?

[Noel]

Yeah, it was this guy named Peter Burnett who was like kind of an Oregon Trail kind of blazer, I guess.

[Ben]

Peter Hardiman Burnett.

[Noel]

Hardiman Burnett. And actually, spoiler alert, we're gonna dig into him in a little more detail later in the show. Foreshadowing, big time foreshadowing. But here's what this dude did just to give you a taste of what his medicine was like. He was a former slave owner and has a really crazy resume. Did all kinds of his life, but by all accounts, a alarming, dastardly, racist, virulent racist. Big time. So this exclusion law that was enacted, sort of pre proper government and constitution, basically allowed slaveholders to hold on for dear life to those slaves for a maximum of. For up to three years. And at first I was like, wait, is this because of emancipation? But then I'm like, no, that was decades later. This is 1844. That wasn't until, like, the 1860s. And I realized, oh, no, Oregon outlawed slavery in the territory.

[Ben]

Right.

[Noel]

But here's the key, okay? And then your thing is gonna be like, oh, that's nice.

[Ben]

What a great bunch of people.

[Noel]

Yeah, okay, but there's more. So you had this grace period of three years, but then all of those freed black people work required to leave.

[Ben]

Yeah, that's the thing. The government of Oregon passed this Exclusion Law of 1844, and in it, they did place a ban on slavery with a requirement that slave owners eventually free their slaves. But they did this with the understanding that any African American who remained in Oregon after they were freed would be flogged, whiplashed, and forcibly expelled from the country. If they were caught in the Oregon country again within six months, then the punishment would be repeated. And then eventually the law was amended in another version to substitute forced labor. So essentially slavery instead of flogging. And then it was repealed in 1845. So this community was so racist that they didn't even condone slavery. They were so such white supremacists.

[Noel]

They just didn't want him around, like, at all. And there's some language we'll get into in a second, but I do just want to point this out. That law you mentioned about flogging or that penalty was called the Burnett lash law, because our buddy Burnett was so into this that he wanted to brand it with his own. His name. That was like his signature thing. And it required that. Or it declared, rather, that offenders who refused to leave would be punished with, quote, not less than 20 or more than 39 stripes. And that would. That would be a cycle that would recur every six months until they left.

[Ben]

And fortunately, this lash law did get amended and repealed. So as far as we know today, no people were ever lashed as a result of that law. But this was just the first of three different laws like this that all were meant to ban people of color from Oregon country, which, again, at that Point is, like Washington, Oregon, and part of Idaho. It's a huge swath of land.

[Noel]

That's right. And we're getting some of this information from a few different places. One of my favorites was a Washington Post article by Deneen L. Brown called When Portland Banned Blacks. Oregon's shameful history as an all white state, or as I've seen it, referred to as an all white utopia kind of. Right. That's what they were after, at least.

[Ben]

There's this weird history of intentional communities and utopian thinking in Oregon. So it's not. Not all examples are racist, but this definitely was. The idea for the people who were supporting this concept was that somehow society would be better if they all felt like. If they all somehow identified with the same ethnicity. Now, did they have the same sort of racism that would be common in the Northeast at the time, wherein, for instance, Italian or Irish immigrants or children of those immigrants are still considered not white enough? I don't know. But what was on the books was specifically targeting people of color. Color. In 1848, this provisional or territorial government passed a law making it illegal for any, quote, Negro or mulatto, to live in Oregon country. But they did have a provision for people who had Native American blood, which.

[Noel]

They weirdly refer to as half breeds.

[Ben]

Because they're despicable people.

[Noel]

They are despicable people. But it's interesting that all it takes is just to get a little white in you. They really didn't like black people.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Noel]

Yeah, that's what it boils down to. All right, Ben.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Noel]

So it's state time, baby.

[Ben]

Here we go. What do you need to make a state as we established earlier.

[Noel]

Yeah, you need. You gotta have some dirt. You gotta have a delineation between your dirt and the other people's dirt.

[Ben]

You have to have some people.

[Noel]

Yep.

[Ben]

In both sides so that you can differentiate a constitution. There we go. Yes. In 1857, the government of what would become Oregon was working on its constitution. They did a couple of things. They grossly plagiarized constitutions from other states at the time.

[Noel]

Well, that's a. You know, there's gonna be some of that. Right. Constitution is not exactly a great work of poetry that you, you know, pilfering from is looked down upon. It's almost sort of like stealing a boilerplate release form or something, you know?

[Ben]

Yeah, I think that's a very good point.

[Robert Evans]

Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here?

[Ben]

Ow. Go slower.

[Robert Evans]

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[Noel]

Now take a big whiff, my bruh.

[Robert Evans]

Listen to the hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite show.

[AJ Jacobs]

Hey y'all.

[Maria Tremarki]

I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. My podcast when youn're Invisible is my love letter to the working class people and immigrants who shaped my life. I get to talk to a lot of people who form the backbone of our society, but who have never been interviewed before. Season 2 is all about community organizing and being underestimated.

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[Ben]

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I know we get paid to serve.

[Ben]

You guys, but like be respectful.

[Maria Tremarki]

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[Robert Evans]

It's rare to have black male teachers.

[Noel]

Sometimes I am the lesson and I'm also the testament.

[Maria Tremarki]

Listen to when youn're Invisible as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bob Pittman]

Hi, I'm Bob Pippman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast Math and stories from the frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some interesting folks across a wide range of industries. Hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that every everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like chairman and CEO of Health Beauty, Tarang Amin.

[Ben]

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[Ben]

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[Bob Pittman]

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[Noel]

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[Bob Pittman]

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[Noel]

Something about Mary Poppins?

[AJ Jacobs]

Something about Mary Poppins? Exactly.

[Ben]

Oh man, this is fun.

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[Holly Fry]

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[AJ Jacobs]

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[Noel]

That's good.

[AJ Jacobs]

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[Noel]

I thought to myself, I bet I know what this is.

[Ben]

And now I definitely know what this is.

[Noel]

This is so weird. This is fun.

[Holly Fry]

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[AJ Jacobs]

Our brand new season features special guests like Chuck Bryant, Mayim Bialik, Julie Bowen, Sam Sanders, Joseph Gordon Levitt, and lots more. Listen to the Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben]

That's awful. And I should have seen it coming. Being that Oregon was going to be a state in the US and have voters and such, they asked about 10,000 residents to vote on the new state constitution. And they had three questions. Burning questions, burning questions. One, do you vote for the constitution? Overwhelmingly. Voters supported it. Two, do you vote for slavery in Oregon? And the voters of Oregon rejected the institution of slavery by a pretty wide margin.

[Noel]

Yeah, also pretty overwhelmingly.

[Ben]

And then three, this is a quote. Again, this is problematic language. They say, do you vote for free Negroes in Oregon?

[Noel]

Hey, what?

[Ben]

And the answer was, oh yeah, it was a no.

[Noel]

Yeah, it was a big no.

[Ben]

And they explicitly baked in this racist language into their constitution. In fact, we have a quote from the state constitution.

[Noel]

Yes, it goes as such. Again, quoting some offensive language here. Quote, no free Negro or mulatto not residing in this state at the time of the adoption of this constitution shall ever come reside or be within this state or hold any real estate, or make any contract or maintain any suit therein. And the legislative assembly shall provide by penal laws for the removal by public officers of all such free Negroes and mulattoes and for their effectual exclusion from the state, and for the punishment of persons who shall bring them into the state or employment or harbor them therein. Right that is bonkers.

[Ben]

It is categorical as well. So pay attention, folks, to that very last line where it says that anyone who helps a person of color is also guilty in the eyes of Oregon law. And that's a terrifying thing. But it passed. People were supportive. Oregon became a State in 1859, and it was the only state in history.

[Noel]

Only state.

[Ben]

Only state in history so far that entered as a whites only state. So anti slavery, but only because they were such white supremacists. And that's mind boggling. People in Portland are so nice.

[Noel]

Yeah, it really does blow my mind. And it makes me wonder, like, why, like, Mississippi didn't try to do anything like this. Probably because there were just too many black people already living there. It was just. It would have been like a massive roundup, kind of like deportation kind of situation.

[Ben]

And they were economically dependent. The controlling powers of the state were economically dependent on this, because it feels.

[Noel]

Like Oregon was probably pretty largely white already. And then the slaves that were there were kind of like imported kind of for that purpose. And then they free him and they give him the boot. And this largely worked. There were a couple of examples, though, of folks trying to get around it. Not very many, though. And one in particular of somebody being kicked out pretty heinously.

[Ben]

Yeah, Vanderpool, right?

[Noel]

That's right.

[Ben]

Yeah. In 1851, before the Constitution was written and before Oregon became a US State. But after these exclusion laws were in full swing, the owner of a saloon, restaurant, and boarding home, a fellow named Jacob Vanderpool, was forcibly expelled from the territory. Not because he did anything wrong, just because he was not white.

[Noel]

Yep. Yeah, that's pretty. Oh, boy. Okay.

[Ben]

He was literally, according to Salem Public Library records, he was literally, quote, reported for the crime of being black in Oregon. And Judge Thomas Nelson gave him 30 days to leave the territory.

[Noel]

Yeah, I'm sorry, I keep pausing because this is just, like, hurting my brain and my heart. In an article from How Stuff Works, we spoke to Walida Imarisha, who's a professor in black studies at Portland State University, and she actually travels around Oregon, kind of working on nurturing some positive connections with the African American community in Oregon. Because it's still spoiler alert to this day, pretty largely white. But here's how she sums up the whole thing. Quote, Oregon was birthed at this intersection of being anti slavery and anti black. But in no way was Oregon anti slavery because they believed in racial justice. They were anti slavery because they considered this to be white man's land. And they came to build A racist white utopia. Their goal was to keep out or push out all people of color.

[Ben]

Right. And you will see multiple academics who explain that Portland's reputation as a progressive city is, in their opinion, largely a myth. Winston Grady Willis, who's director of Portland State University's School of Gender, Race, and Nations, points out that as of July 2015, the city had 612,206 people, 77.6% white, 5.8% black. And Grady Willis went on further to call it a key site for Klan activity. We know the Klan was very active there in the early 1900s as well.

[Noel]

Yeah, I mean, apparently members of the clan were actually cops.

[Ben]

Yeah, they were deputized.

[Noel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, like, like as though they were sort of a para military organization given the same powers as, like, law enforcement. Right. So not.

[Ben]

Not a pretty scene, but there is good news here. This is a story of oppression, but it is also a story of inspiration and righteous struggle for justice and equality. There was this great documentary called Local Color, which traces the history of racism in Oregon and the actions of people who are working for civil rights in the area. And of course, this. This centers often on Portland itself, as it is the capital city of the state. And to be honest, folks, there are some pretty disturbing stories in that documentary. But if you would like to learn more, we highly recommend you check it out. It is available for free online. So thanks again, public television.

[Noel]

And so the 14th amendment happened. And surprise, surprise, Oregon was one of, I think, only six states in the Union that voted against it. And I had forgotten what the 14th Amendment is, but it is really hella important is what it says. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States. Nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law, nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of law. So this completely neutered these exclusion rules.

[Ben]

Right. So this was passed by Congress in 1866, and the explicit intention there is to safeguard the rights of recently manumitted or freed people in the south, where a lot of the white population is working hard to still subjugate them, still somehow practice chattel slavery and forced labor. So Oregon, actually, because it was a divisive issue, Oregon ratified the 14th amendment by a very narrow margin in 1866, with two legislators protesting that the amendment would, quote, change, if not entirely destroy the Republican form of government under which we live and crush American liberty. They also, around the same time, passed a law banning miscegenation or interracial marriages.

[Noel]

Surely, Ben, there's some sort of fun food fact we can pull out now to lighten the mood a little bit. Where do we go from here?

[Ben]

Well, we've got one more thing I have to add. There's a great paper by Cheryl A. Brooks called Race Politics and why Oregon Forgot to ratify the 14th Amendment. Because, you see, although they ratified it in 1866, in 1868, the legislature rescinded that ratification and they did so on a technicality. So they were still in an uncertain situation. In fact, these laws, or some version of these exclusion laws stayed on the books until, what, 1920s?

[Noel]

Yeah, exactly. I think it was like 20 or something like that.

[Ben]

Wow. It's insane. But we do have, luckily, a happy ending. Progress grinds on.

[Noel]

Yeah, except. Sorry. In 1922, a guy named Walter Pierce, who was a Klan member, was elected governor of Oregon. And there's this great quote in this article from the Washington Post as well that just kind of goes back into the history of this, talking about how many of the Jim Crow laws that you'd see in the south were kind of encouraged there and, like, legal.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. They still try to do de facto acts of oppression and segregation. And again, I can't recommend that documentary enough because it contains interview. It's only about an hour long. You can find it through opb.org it contains interviews with people who survive these circumstances. I feel like we're almost wrapping up on this, but there are a couple more things that we need to mention.

[Noel]

Yeah. Well, just the fact that it's come a long way, obviously, and Portland still does have that reputation as being a pretty culturally interesting dream of the 90s kind of place. But even, like in the 80s and 90s, especially in Portland, it was very dangerous to be a person of color. This Washington Post article mentions the fact that it was just a hotbed of skinhead movement and white supremacy. And I'm not sure if you've seen the movie Green Room.

[Ben]

Yep. I was wondering when that would come up.

[Noel]

Yeah, Patrick Stewart plays the head of this neo Nazi group that has like a punk rock house out in the woods and pretty intense and awful and really, really cool little slice of life kind of. I don't know. It's a horror in that there's a lot of crazy stuff that happens, but it's really just More like a very contained, claustrophobic movie where it all kind of takes place in this one space.

[Ben]

I feel like it's almost more of a thriller to me.

[Noel]

Yeah, it is. It's so weird seeing Patrick Stewart play a psychotic neo Nazi.

[Ben]

A very restrained, subtle performance from Patrick as well. I just call him Patrick, but yeah, but it's true. So Oregon in the 1980s and 1990s became a destination for the largest skinhead movement in the country, according to several scholars. And you can see, unfortunately, no shortage of stories of racially motivated hate crimes.

[Noel]

Yeah, there was that guy recently who was arrested for, I believe, stabbing some people to death on a light rail train when he, some folks came to the aid of a African American woman and a Muslim woman who he was shouting racial epithets at, and then he like stabbed several people. And this happened like last year.

[Ben]

Right.

[Noel]

And his name is Jeremy Joseph Christian. And yeah, when he goes to this hearing, he walks into the courtroom and immediately starts rambling and saying, free speech or die. Portland. You call it terrorism, I call it patriotism.

[Ben]

Right. So the circumstances of this event were the following. He was shouting religious slurs at several people. He fatally stabbed two people and wounded one other. This is indefensible. This is very much not what free speech is. And isn't it strange how some of the most ardent supporters of so called free speech completely don't understand what it is?

[Noel]

Yeah, no, it really is. And admittedly this guy does seem like he's got some mental illness going on. Sure, that's just me speculating. But it's sad, sad case and a sad example of how these kind of attitudes are around and possibly given a little more fuel on the fire, considering some of the, you know, Nazi neo Nazi marches we're seeing in Charlottesville. And some of these attitudes that have maybe come a little more into the forefront of not acceptability, but at least just kind of are being a little more mainstream these days. So it's interesting to see where it came from in a place like the.

[Ben]

Pacific Northwest, which might surprise a lot of people.

[Robert Evans]

Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here?

[Ben]

Ow. Go slower.

[Robert Evans]

From Blumhouse TV, iHeart podcasts and Ember 20 comes an all new fictional comedy podcast series. Join the flighty Damien Hirst as he unravels the mystery of his vanished boyfriend. And Santi was gone. I've been spending all my time looking, looking for answers about what happened to Santi and what's the way to find a missing person. Sleep with everyone he knew. Obviously. Mmm. Pillow talk, the most unwelcome window into the human psyche. Follow our out of his element hero as he engages in a series of ill conceived investigative hookups. Mama always used to say God gave me gumption in place of a gag reflex. And as I was about to learn, no amount of showering can wash your hands of a bad hookup.

[Noel]

Now take a big whiff, my bruh.

[Robert Evans]

Listen to the hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[AJ Jacobs]

Hey y'all.

[Maria Tremarki]

I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. My podcast when youn're Invisible is my love letter to the working class people and immigrants who shaped my life. I get to talk to a lot of people who form the backbone of our society, but who have never been interviewed before. Season 2 is all about community organizing and being underestimated.

[Ben]

All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, this sucks, let's do something about it. I can't have more than $2,000 in my bank account or else I can't get disability benefits. They won't let you succeed.

[Noel]

I know we get paid to serve.

[Ben]

You guys, but like, be respectful.

[Maria Tremarki]

We're made out of the same things. Bone, body, blood.

[Robert Evans]

It's rare to have black male teachers.

[Noel]

Sometimes I am the lesson and I'm also the testament.

[Maria Tremarki]

Listen to when youn're Invisible as part of the Mike Ultura Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bob Pittman]

Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast Math and Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some interesting folks across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like chairman and CEO of Elf Beauty, Tarang Amin.

[Ben]

The way I approach risk is constantly try things and actually make it okay to fail.

[Bob Pittman]

I'm sitting down with legendary singer, songwriter and philanthropist.

[Ben]

I wanted a way to do something that I loved for the rest of my life.

[Bob Pittman]

We're also hearing how leaders brought their businesses out of unprecedented times like Stephane Bonsell, CEO of Moderna.

[Holly Fry]

It becomes a human decision to decide to throw by the window your business.

[Bob Pittman]

Strategy and to do what you think.

[Noel]

Is the right thing for the world.

[Bob Pittman]

Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics. The math and the ever important cross creative Spark the magic. Listen to Math and magic stories from the frontiers of Marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Noel]

Something about Mary Poppins?

[AJ Jacobs]

Something about Mary Poppins? Exactly.

[Noel]

Oh, man, this is fun.

[AJ Jacobs]

I'm AJ Jacobs and I am an author and a journalist, and I tend to get obsessed with stuff, and my current obsession is puzzles and that that has given birth to my podcast, the Puzzler. Dressing. Dressing.

[Holly Fry]

French dressing.

[AJ Jacobs]

Exactly.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, that's good.

[AJ Jacobs]

Now you can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears.

[Ben]

I thought to myself, I bet I.

[Noel]

Know what this is.

[Ben]

And now I definitely know what this is.

[Noel]

This is so weird. This is fun.

[Holly Fry]

Let's try this one.

[AJ Jacobs]

Our brand new season features special guests like Chuck Bryant, Mayim Bialik, Julie Bowen, Sam Sanders, Joseph Gordon Levitt, and lots more. Listen to the Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben]

That's awful. And I should have seen the long story short. Too late. The exclusion clause that we examined today was ultimately removed from Oregon's constitution in 1927. However, as we, I think, have pretty clearly established, that did not remove the actual practices of racial segregation and discrimination. But there's one thing, one more thing I think we should add, because we've been talking about the state, right? We've been talking about the territory, we've been talking about the people, but we have yet to talk in detail about the guy who was at the forefront of it all. We have yet to talk in detail about Peter Hardiman Burnett, who some would call a real bastard.

[Noel]

Yeah, and he also managed to make it all the way down the Oregon Trail and not even get dysentery. Dysentery, right.

[Ben]

Or die of exposure.

[Noel]

Yeah, he was a dick.

[Ben]

Well, how about this? This is a surprise that we, Noel and Casey and I worked on for you all off air. What if we have a little extra credit?

[Noel]

That's right, folks, extra credit. The segment wherein we get, you know, some human person that's tangentially familiar with the topic by varying degrees. My favorite of late has been the Colonel Gladwin Bolan.

[Ben]

Oh, boy.

[Noel]

Man, he really. He really set the Internet on fire with that segment. I let him into this Gladwin.

[Ben]

I let him into the Facebook group, folks. So I hope we're all still cool.

[Noel]

Did you create a monster?

[Ben]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Noel]

Well, today we have another quite informed gentleman joining us. The host of the Newhouse Stuff Works show, Behind the Bastards, which does deep dives into horrible people throughout history, from Saddam Hussein's hobby writing erotic fiction to Hitler's spanking fetish, I believe. Friends and neighbors, Ben, if I may, Robert Evans.

[Holly Fry]

Hey, y'all. How's it cracking, man?

[Noel]

It's. It's. It's weird.

[Ben]

It's weird in here.

[Noel]

There's been a lot of, like, silent head shaking on this episode, which doesn't really translate super well on the podcast, but, yeah, who knew?

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

I mean, and we're talking about Oregon, which is if you like. Yeah. If you go to, like, Portland or whatever. It seems on the up and up. I've spent a lot of the last three years in, like, rural southern Oregon, and it's. It's a pretty racist place. Like Josephine county, where I was, is chock full of Nazis. There are quite a lot of them out there. So it's, It's.

[Ben]

It's a fascinating place, even in the modern day.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Tons of them. It's one of the most racist counties and one of the highest densities of hate groups anywhere in the United States.

[Noel]

Chock full of Nazis, as it turns out. Not a good coffee break.

[Holly Fry]

No, no. Terrible coffee. Terrible craft beer that the Nazis make. Yeah.

[Ben]

So when we. When we originally talked off air, Robert, one of the things that we were very interested in, both as colleagues, but also as fans of your show, was seeing whether there was a specific person associated with the supremacist origins of Oregon, kind of setting the tone that we could learn a little bit more about with you. And you found the guy, right?

[Holly Fry]

Oh, my God, I sure did. I think Peter Burnett. I think Peter was his first name. Yeah. Just a tremendous piece of crap. And maybe, like, there's a long list of super racist politicians in American history, but he's in the running for most racist. He's definitely in that conversation for sure.

[Noel]

Yeah. We set him up briefly as just having been the one that kind of came up with the idea of these exclusionary laws early on, before Oregon became a state. And he loved this idea so much that he named it after himself. The Burnett Lash Law, which permitted black people who refused to leave the state to be given lashes, like every six months, six months or something like that. And he loved it so much, thought it was such a genius idea. The Burnett Lash Law.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. He was so proud of his. His whipping people rule that he stuck his name on it, which is a special kind of. Of terrible. But he was actually like a violent jerk way before he went to Oregon, when he was still living in Clear Creek, Tennessee. He Was a shop owner, like a general store owner. He suspected this enslaved black man was every now and then breaking into his store at night to drink from his whiskey barrel because they. They stored whiskey in barrels back then. It was a. It was a different time. So he, rather than like taking any of the other actions you might take in this situation, he sets a trap using a rifle with, like, a string tied to the trigger, tied to the window shutter.

[Ben]

Holy smokes.

[Holly Fry]

So that when the guy crawled in in the middle of the night, this rifle shot him dead. And he wasn't charged with the crime because it was an enslaved man. And he said he was sorry. But that's like Peter Burnett before he gets into politics.

[Noel]

They must have had like a stand your ground law back in those days, too, I guess.

[Holly Fry]

I just don't think they had laws. Yeah, you're talking about the 1820s or whatever. There was no rules.

[Ben]

And that's such a cartoonish sort of Rube Goldberg esque kind of contraption.

[Noel]

Yeah, he probably got the kit from Acme. That's insane. Okay, go on, give us more.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, so one of his early jobs before he gets off to Oregon, I think after he murders this guy with a Looney Tunes trap, is he's a lawyer. And some of his. Probably his most prominent clients were Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon religion and all of Joseph Smith's apostles or whatever, all of his friends, because they were on trial for kind of sort of fomenting a frontier war that had broken out in and around Missouri. And so he is these guys lawyer. And his main achievement as a lawyer seems to be getting the venue changed that the court case was being held in. And this venue change allowed Joseph Smith and all of his guys to escape and run away. And. Yeah, so that's his career as a lawyer before he gets on that first big wagon train to Oregon for the great migration and whatnot.

[Ben]

Oh, wow.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. So y'all already covered. Yeah, he made the lash law. He made the exclusion law, which he was. He was an abolitionist, but he's like an interesting. Like we think when you hear about abolitionists in the pre Civil War era, you usually think about just the few people who would have been like, on the right side of history, but some of them were just abolitionists because they were that racist. They were so racist. And that was Peter Burnett. He was abolitionist that because he didn't like the idea of there being black people anywhere in his state. And he thought that slave labor was bad for white people. So he was like. He wound up the right conclusion, which is that slavery was a bad thing. But he wound up there through like the most racist chain of logic that he could have possibly gotten to, which is always interesting to me.

[Noel]

That was a sentiment that was big time shared by the majority of people in Oregon because when they did incorporate and become a state, the majority of people voted against slavery, but also for ousting all the freed black people.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. And I did find when I was doing my research, that in 1840, at least, Burnett had two slaves of his own. And this is back when he was living in Missouri. And there's some evidence that when he immigrated to Oregon, he tried to bring one slave with him, a young girl who drowned in the Colom river during the voyage. So not a lot of. It's kind of an enticing piece of like, what was going on there. But that's all the info I found so far on that.

[Ben]

Right. Because she was projected to be somewhere between 10 to 24 or something.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, it seems like it might be kind of a creepy Thomas Jefferson sort of situation there.

[Ben]

Yeah, I suspected that as well.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. So this guy we've talked about, like, or y'all talked about what he did in Oregon, but after he got done in Oregon, this dude moved to California and he became an. In 1849, the first governor of California of the state of California. So California's very first leader as a state in the union was this guy, Peter Burnett, who did a lot of terrible things. Maybe my favorite thing he did that isn't terrible was in 1850. He changed Thanksgiving that year from a Thursday to a Saturday just because it was better for him personally that year to do it on a different day.

[Noel]

I mean, I can get behind that. It's always weird to me that Thanksgiving's on a Thursday.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, that's whimsical and fun. But he also tried to bring racial exclusion to California with the Chinese.

[Noel]

Right.

[Holly Fry]

Well, first with black people. He first tried to. In his first message to the California legislature, he called exclusion like the first important. Like an issue of the first importance, the most important thing that California could do. Because he thought black people were going to take jobs from white people and that they would be unhappy in California and cause disruption because they would be second class citizens. Because he wasn't gonna let them be anything but second class citizens. So, yeah, he tried to. There were like a thousand black people already in California, many of them free. And he tried to have them all kicked out and to stop any more from settling. And that was too racist for 1850s California. So he lost on that and he wound up actually like in 1851, quitting being the governor over this because he tried a couple of times to get California to ban black people and they just wouldn't do it. And yeah, I mean, there's some pretty, pretty racist quotes from him that I could read, but that's probably not necessary. But it is fun to note that after he was no longer governor and after his political career was over, as you know, the world continued to advance and modernize in his old age. Yeah, his crusade, as you mentioned, was trying to stop the Chinese from coming to California. So he was just, just comprehensively racist across the board every chance he got, which is impressive in a terrible way.

[Ben]

Yeah, at least you can say he was consistent. But honestly, good on you. California, for anyone listening who is in the state right now, I think that speaks very highly to the character of the state. Even as far back as the 1850s. He also published an autobiography. Right. At some point, yeah.

[Holly Fry]

That's where he started ranting about Chinese immigration.

[Noel]

Yeah, but Robert, surely he got some sort of amazing comeuppance, right? Like burned to death in a fire, you know, drowned under suspicious circumstances. Give me something.

[Ben]

Gotten a fight with a locomotive?

[Holly Fry]

No, I mean, I think he died rich and old. He was in his 80s or something.

[Noel]

Oh man, that's a bummer. I know. It's just that's what always happens with these bastards, right? I mean, I bet you're seeing that a lot. Except you did the Cosby episode. He kind of got his comeuppance. But even that's sort of like a Pyrrhic victory where it's like too little too late for a guy that's been screwing people over for years unchecked.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. Every now and then you get a Mussolini or a Gaddafi where they get dragged out into the street and punished by the people that they spent decades screwing with. But that's almost. That almost never happens. Usually they die rich in a villa somewhere.

[Ben]

I'm really glad that you said this, Robert, because I was listening to the Gaddafi episode, which I thought was fantastic, and I'm still preparing myself to check out the Weinstein episode. Which is a two parter, correct?

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that one's a big one.

[Ben]

What we'd like to do is again, thank you for giving us more insight on the life of Peter Hardiman Burnett.

[Noel]

Screw that guy.

[Ben]

Yeah, I know, right to the mat. But we were wondering if you could tell our, if you could tell our fellow listeners here a little bit more about behind the Bastards and what they can expect when they tune into your show.

[Holly Fry]

Well, I mean, our goal is to tell you everything you don't know about the very worst people in all of history. So you've probably sat stoned or whatever in your underpants and watched a lot of documentaries about Hitler on the History Channel over the years, but you probably don't know that he based a lot of his military strategies and his, like, attitudes on existence in life on a series of young adult novels that were basically like the German equivalent of Harry Potter back in the 1800s. Oh, wow. You know, and. And for that matter, while we're on the subject of novelists, you probably haven't read Saddam Hussein's romance novels, but I have. And that's one of the things we get into in this podcast.

[Noel]

I refer to it as erotic fiction. Was that. Was that a bridge too far?

[Holly Fry]

No, no, it is very erotic. In fact, there's a long passage where an elderly woman yells at children about how sexy mouths are. So that's. It's fun. Yeah.

[Ben]

Aren't those novels in particular largely considered these megalomaniacal analogies about his relationship with the country?

[Holly Fry]

Yes, and it's one of those weird things. There's a lot of cases, like with the Kims in North Korea, of art being credited to dictators who didn't actually make. Saddam definitely wrote these books, and we get into that to an extent, but they're like. They're a mix of rants about modern politics and, like, utopian fiction. And so it's like a mix of Saddam screaming at the people he hates and trying to set up the ideal government that he never quite got to make in Iraq. It's a really strange insight into what was going on in the man's head.

[Ben]

That's fascinating. I want to tune in and no spoilers, but could you tell us a little bit about some episodes that are coming up soon?

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. Today, right now, there is a new episode on Paul Manafort, part one of which just dropped and part two of which will be up Thursday. So that's a big one. I'd check that out. And we've been doing an ongoing series about King Leopold of Belgium and the Congo, and we're recording an episode today about what happened after Leopold, who is one of the worst people in all of history and doesn't get enough acknowledgment for just how terrible he was.

[Ben]

Agreed.

[Holly Fry]

And we're also recording an episode about the serial killer Albert Fish with his. One of his descendants who is all a comedian in LA today, so that's going to be fun.

[Ben]

Oh man, that's fascinating.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, we got a good, good slate.

[Ben]

Well, we are going to wrap it up today. We want to thank you so much for coming on the show. Robert Evans, friends and neighbors, the mastermind behind one of House Stuff Works, newest podcasts behind the Bastards. If you like our show, you will love this one. In the meantime, you can find Noel, Casey and I and Robert as well on social media in 2018, right? It's everywhere.

[Noel]

We're all over the place with Facebook, the Instagram. We're still working on the Pinterest page. We haven't found, we haven't committed yet, but we'll get there.

[Ben]

Creative differences.

[Noel]

Yeah, it's true. And you can join our Facebook community at Ridiculous Historians where there's all kinds of memeries and fun chats going on all the time. Or if you don't want to do any of that, write us an email at ridiculousowstuffworks and we'll see you soon. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Robert Evans]

Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here?

[Ben]

Ow. Go slower.

[Robert Evans]

From Blumhouse TV, iheart podcasts and ember 20 comes an all new fictional comedy podcast series. Join the flighty Damien Hirst as he unravels the mystery of his vanished boyfriend. I've been spending all my time looking for answers about what happened to Santi and what's the way to find a missing person? Sleep with everyone he knew, obviously. Listen to the hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Maria Tremarki]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarki]

Each season we explore a new theme. From poisoners to art thieves.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Maria Tremarki]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bob Pittman]

Hi, I'm Bob Pippman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast Math and Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some folks across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like chairman and CEO of Elf Beauty Tarang Amin, legendary singer, songwriter and philanthropist Jewel.

[Ben]

Being a rock star is very fun, but helping people is way more fun.

[Bob Pittman]

And Damian Maldonado, CEO of American Financing.

[Ben]

I figured out the formula. I just have to work hard then that's magic.

[Bob Pittman]

Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math and the ever important creative spark, the magic. Listen to math and Magic on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Ben]

My name is Brendan Patrick Hughes, host of Divine Intervention. This is a story about radical nuns in combat boots and wild haired priests trading blows with J. Edgar Hoover in a hell bent effort to sabotage a war.

[AJ Jacobs]

J. Edgar Hoover was furious. He was out of his mind and.

[Ben]

He wanted to bring the Catholic left to its knees. Listen to Divine Intervention on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.