CLASSIC: Project A119: The Cold War Plan to Nuke the Moon!

Summary

Ridiculous History: CLASSIC Episode Summary
Title: Project A119: The Cold War Plan to Nuke the Moon!
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
Release Date: March 8, 2025

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Introduction: Setting the Lunar Stage

In this classic episode of Ridiculous History, hosts Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown delve into one of the most bizarre and lesser-known plots of the Cold War era: Project A119, the United States' secret plan to detonate a nuclear bomb on the Moon. The episode combines humor, historical analysis, and insightful commentary to explore the absurd lengths to which superpowers went to assert dominance during the Space Race.

Moon Musings: A Playful Prelude

The episode opens with Ben and Noel engaging in light-hearted banter about the Moon's persistent presence and its sometimes inconsistent influence on Earth.

• Ben (00:00): "Fellow ridiculous historians, we cannot thank you enough for joining us..."
• Noel (00:16): "Matt the Birdman. Stillo."
• Ben (00:56): "But I think we could all agree, at least hypothetically, maybe we should take the moon down a notch."

This playful exchange sets the tone, blending humor with the impending discussion of a serious Cold War strategy.

Introducing Project A119: The Moon Nuke Plan

The conversation shifts to the heart of the episode: Project A119. Ben introduces the topic, prompting Noel to inquire about its significance.

• Ben (01:06): "I hope it wouldn't [alter the Moon's orbit]."

The hosts discuss the nature of the project, emphasizing its primary objective: to showcase American technological prowess and intimidate the Soviet Union by visibly detonating a nuclear bomb on the Moon.

Historical Context: Cold War Tensions and Space Race

Ben and Noel provide a backdrop of the intense rivalry between the United States and the Soviet Union during the late 1950s. The Space Race was not just about reaching the Moon but also about demonstrating scientific and military superiority.

• Noel (10:12): "Now we got a second installment of Casey on the case."

The discussion highlights the desperate measures considered by the U.S. to outpace Soviet achievements, leading to the conceptualization of Project A119.

Details of Project A119: Execution and Objectives

Project A119, led by physicist Leonard Reiffel at the Illinois Institute of Technology, aimed to detonate a nuclear device on the Moon to create a massive visual spectacle visible from Earth.

• Ben (08:58): "We were like, what do we want to do? Make a clearly visible nuclear explosion on the Moon because Russia can see it and, you know, that'd be cool."

The plan involved using a lightweight warhead, the W25, with a yield of 1.7 kilotons, significantly smaller than the bombs dropped during World War II. The intent was not mass destruction but instead a display of power to gain psychological advantage.

Scientific Considerations and Challenges

The feasibility of Project A119 was meticulously analyzed. Carl Sagan, then a young scientist, was involved in studying the behavior of lunar dust particles post-detonation to ensure the explosion's visibility.

• Noel (13:12): "Carl Sagan was in the camp of the benefits to science segment."

The team grappled with technical challenges, such as ensuring the missile's precise impact on the Moon's dark side and preventing potential malfunctions that could result in unintended fallout on Earth.

Soviet Counterparts: Project E4

The episode doesn't overlook the Soviet Union's parallel efforts. Project E4 mirrored the U.S. strategy, aiming to achieve similar visibility by executing a nuclear detonation on the Moon's surface.

• Noel (23:10): "Theirs was called Project E4 and their idea was to hit the moon with their own missiles."

Both superpowers considered the Moon a strategic target for demonstrating technological might, underscoring the absurdity of weaponizing celestial bodies during peacetime.

Project Cancellation and Legal Ramifications

Despite the planning, Project A119 never materialized. The primary reasons included:

1. Technical Impracticalities: The logistical nightmare of transporting and detonating hundreds of nuclear devices on the Moon.
2. International Opposition: Growing awareness and eventual legal prohibitions against such actions.

• Ben (27:24): "In 1967, the United Nations Outer Space Treaty banned the use of nukes in space, making any study of nuking the moon illegal."

The 1967 Outer Space Treaty marked a significant shift, prioritizing peaceful exploration over militaristic endeavors in space.

Modern Reflections and Cultural Parallels

Ben and Noel draw parallels between Project A119 and other outlandish military projects, such as the "Bat Bomb" and the "Gay Bomb," highlighting a recurring theme of misguided innovation during wartime.

• Ben (25:10): "The running theory is that the people on that island used up every last resource they had and then they pretty much all died or left because they couldn't sustain themselves anymore."

The discussion extends to contemporary science fiction works, like Neal Stephenson's Seven Eves, which explores the catastrophic consequences of disrupting the Moon's stability.

Conclusion: Lessons from Lunacy

In wrapping up, the hosts reflect on the sheer audacity and irrationality that characterized Cold War strategies. While Project A119 was never executed, its existence serves as a testament to the extremes of geopolitical competition and the importance of ethical considerations in scientific pursuits.

• Noel (27:08): "But one thing I thought was interesting too is the idea that just detonating a nuclear device, even a relatively small one on the moon, could have effects on certain aspects of it, right?"

Ben emphasizes the project's futility and the lasting importance of treaties that prevent the militarization of space.

• Ben (28:12): "So now we know why there is still a moon. That's great. That's a great point."

Notable Quotes:

• Ben (00:56): "But I think we could all agree, at least hypothetically, maybe we should take the moon down a notch."
• Noel (08:58): "We were like, what do we want to do? Make a clearly visible nuclear explosion on the Moon because Russia can see it and, you know, that'd be cool."
• Ben (27:24): "In 1967, the United Nations Outer Space Treaty banned the use of nukes in space, making any study of nuking the moon illegal."
• Noel (23:10): "Theirs was called Project E4 and their idea was to hit the moon with their own missiles."

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Project A119 exemplifies the often-overlooked bizarre elements of history, blending scientific ambition with military paranoia. Through engaging storytelling and incisive analysis, Ridiculous History sheds light on this lunar folly, encouraging listeners to ponder the fine line between innovation and absurdity.

Transcript

[Ben]

Fellow ridiculous historians, we cannot thank you enough for joining us. We're on the road. We wanted to bring you a classic episode. We were hanging out recently with our guest super producer, Matt the Madman Stillo.

[Noel]

Matt the Birdman. Stillo.

[Ben]

Matt Double Bird Stillo. And looking up at the lovely evening that we were strolling along along the Corniche. Yeah, it hit me. The moon has just gone too far.

[Noel]

The moon really insists upon itself.

[Ben]

It insists upon itself. It's always leering. It's got. It's changing up, you know, it's never consistent.

[Noel]

Don't care. What is it even for?

[Ben]

Moon. Who is it good for?

[Noel]

Absolutely no one that. No, actually the tides are gravity. If we must give credit where credit is due.

[Ben]

But I think we could all agree, at least hypothetically, maybe we should take the moon down a notch.

[Noel]

Yeah, the accent on the hype. Because the moon is nothing if not overhyped.

[Ben]

I know, right? As a child, one of my first dreams was to be the first werewolf astronaut on the moon. I had this all figured out to the best of my ability. I learned that werewolves aren't real. And I learned that it's difficult to get to the moon. And I still have some resentment. And that's why we agree with Project A119. What is that, Noel?

[Noel]

Well, the question also becomes, did we act? If we wanted to put on our conspiracy caps, did we actually go to the moon? I would argue yes. I think we both would. And are astronauts real or are they in the same liminal space as leprechauns and Santa Claus and werewolves?

[Ben]

Ah, yes. Well, I have met astronauts or people who say they're astronauts. But perhaps that's a perhaps. I've been programmed by space camp.

[Noel]

Oh my gosh, you're rubbing it in once again. I never got to go to space camp. But you and Matt did. I did write a gyroscope once. Those things are fun. But it was at a mall.

[Ben]

That's basically like being on the moon.

[Noel]

Okay, fair enough. But you were mentioning Ben Project A119, the secret US plan to nuke the moon.

[Ben]

Yes.

[Noel]

Take it down a notch.

[Ben]

As you said, just a true story. We are aware that there are a lot of drawing board ideas amid the boffins and eggheads of the U.S. military and associ associated institutions. And you know, I. I wonder how it happened. I wonder if it was like a 4:30pm on a Friday and everybody wanted to beat traffic. Three martini lunch and then. And then someone said, oh, yeah, Ideas, ideas, ideas, ideas, ideas. The moon what is it?

[Noel]

What is a thing that everyone can see?

[Ben]

What is a thing we have that we want to like, impress people with?

[Noel]

Yeah. Ah, nukes.

[Ben]

Nukes. Moon boom.

[Noel]

Done.

[Ben]

Yeah. And that's today's classic episode. We hope you enjoy it, folks. We will be back in the future once we get stateside. In the meantime, tell us what you would do if you had a chance to blow up the moon.

[Noel]

Let's roll that beautiful moon footage.

[Ben]

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[Matt]

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[Noel]

7,000 bodies out there or more.

[Larison Campbell]

A forgotten asylum cemetery.

[Ben]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell and this is under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben]

Welcome to the Criminalia podcast. I'M Maria Tremarke.

[Larison Campbell]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together, we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Ben]

Each season, we explore a new theme. From poisoners to art thieves, we uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures.

[Larison Campbell]

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[Ben]

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[Larison Campbell]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app.

[Ben]

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartrad. Hey, Noel, you're a fan of Mr. Show, right? The old sketch comedy series?

[Noel]

It's not that old, is it?

[Ben]

It's. It's. You know, it's. It's mature.

[Noel]

Yeah. God, no. It makes me feel old. That Show's probably about 20 years old now, isn't it?

[Ben]

But it still holds up.

[Noel]

It really does.

[Ben]

Hey, everyone, I'm Ben. This is Ridiculous History. And we are joined, of course, with our super producer, Casey Pegram. Casey, are you a fan of Mr. Show? It's my favorite show ever. Is that really. Oh, yeah, yeah. I love it. It's great. Yeah, it's a very, very influential show. I think he's being sincere. I think you're being sincere. I am being sincere. I love that show. I can't. Can't use that part.

[Noel]

No, you should. You should beep yourself.

[Ben]

But, yeah, it's great.

[Noel]

That's Casey on the case.

[Ben]

Wow, that's passionate.

[Noel]

He brought the gavel down on that one, my man.

[Ben]

He sure did. He sure did.

[Noel]

What does Mr. Show have to do with this show?

[Ben]

Oh, good. And I'm so glad you asked. Well done. I think we should just play the clip.

[Noel]

Let's do it. Thank you very much. We have an announcement to make.

[Larison Campbell]

On July 4th of this year, America.

[Ben]

Will blow up the moon.

[Noel]

We have the technology.

[Larison Campbell]

The time is now.

[Noel]

Science can wait no longer.

[Larison Campbell]

Children are our future. America can, should, must, and will blow up the moon.

[Noel]

And we'll be doing it during a.

[Ben]

Full moon, so we make sure we get it all. So what you just heard was the beginning of a sketch and Mr. Show, wherein two guys from NASA announced to great fanfare their plan to blow up the moon. Awesome, right? And it seems so ridiculous when I first saw it, and I imagine when everybody else first saw it, we just assumed that these were brilliant comedy writers, which is true.

[Noel]

Yeah, it is true. And I don't even know if they were aware of the story, because I don't think it really came out until well after that episode was done. Or at least. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that this would not have been widely known information at the time. But, yeah, sure enough, a handful of years ago, a physicist by the name of Leonard Reifel did an interview where he kind of spilled the beans on a little something called Project A119, which was a Cold War era plot. Not really a plot. It was more of like a weird nuclear fireworks display to. Yeah. Shoot a nuclear missile into the moon to freak out the Russians.

[Ben]

Yeah. They wrapped it in a couple of slightly more scientific sounding terms. They called it a study of lunar research flights or something that would help in answering, quote, some of the mysteries in planetary astronomy and astrogeology.

[Noel]

And freak out the Russians.

[Ben]

That was the main thing. They were like, you know what we should do? We should just make a clearly visible nuclear explosion on the moon because Russia can see it and, you know, that'd be cool. Yeah, that was their planning phase. Carl Sagan was in on it. He was a wee young tyke when this was happening. I think he was still in school at the time. This was in 1958. And as you said, Noel, this did not come out until 2000. The documents detailing the project were secret for a little less than 45 years. And even today, the US government does not recognize this. They don't officially admit it because it sounds so ridiculous.

[Noel]

Yeah. And that Mr. Show probably was in like, what, the late 90s?

[Ben]

Oh, wow, Casey. Yeah, it's like mid to late 90s. They didn't know. Wow.

[Noel]

Total parallel thinking.

[Ben]

Good job. Bob Odenkirk and David Cross and the team of writers who made that show possible. Yeah. You know, the way people say headlines today, you can't tell if it's like the Onion or not. Yeah. There's. There's been numerous times where Mr. Show has, like, eerily predicted the future. He. You were going. You were doubling down on Mr. Show, my friend.

[Noel]

Now we got a second installment of Casey on the case.

[Ben]

Right.

[Noel]

So, so blessed today.

[Ben]

I know. We're. We're doubling up, Right? We're case rich. We're Casey rich. My. My Grinch heart just grew three sizes.

[Noel]

I can see it in the little frame. It just burst out in your chest.

[Ben]

Yeah. Still pretty D. Dr. Leonard Reiffel was, I believe, 73 when he gave this interview in 2000.

[Noel]

That is correct.

[Ben]

Yeah. And he says himself that despite their stated aims on paper, quote, it was clear that the main aim of the proposed detonation was a PR exercise and a show of One upsmanship. The Air Force wanted a mushroom cloud so large it would be visible on Earth because the US according to their own estimations, was lagging behind in the space race.

[Noel]

Was he like, from Chappaquiddick or something?

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he was. I just want to, you know, spice up the voice a little bit in a believable way.

[Noel]

I like it. No, I was there with you. And so this whole idea of what upmanship, though, Ben, this was a theme. This is kind of what the Cold War was all about, right? Because it was like, we got nukes, you got nukes. Who's going to do what first? You know, we're going to develop a nuclear submarine. We're going to develop a nuclear submarine. I think I read in one of these, I think in the Vice article by Harry Cheadle, that at one point the US was considering developing a nuclear powered spaceship. And the thing was, we weren't doing so hot in the space race because Sputnik was a thing, right? And we had not yet gone to the moon. And so we were desperately kind of trying to scrabble for purchase and showing our might over the Russians in some way. What better way to do that than to shoot a missile at the moon?

[Ben]

Who's that crazy in that pitch meeting.

[Noel]

Doing so much blow?

[Ben]

You know what, it does sound like it was. It was something along those lines of people just stuck in a room. So this, this research conduct, the team that we're talking about, by the way, there were 10 people in it, they were led by Leonard Reiffel at the Illinois Institute of Technology in Chicago. And what they were tasked with studying was the potential visibility of the explosion, any benefits to science, and as well, implications for the lunar surface.

[Noel]

Now, Carl Sagan was just kind of in the camp of the benefits to science segment. I believe he was looking at the way dust particles would behave. No, maybe that was more about how it would look. Maybe a combination of the two.

[Ben]

I think it was. Yeah, because you're spot on. He was attempting to build a mathematical projection of how a dust cloud in space around the moon would work and whether that would obscure the visibility of the explosion. That was one of the big questions. So it was both the implication for the surface of the Moon and the visibility. Initially, they said, let's use a hydrogen bomb. But the problem was, from the Air Force perspective, that a hydrogen bomb was gonna be too heavy to be useful. So then they tried to use a small, lightweight warhead that had a 1.7 kiloton yield.

[Noel]

This is when they had developed intercontinental ballistic missiles, right?

[Ben]

Yeah, icbm. So hitting the moon with the right type of missile is not as tough. It's just the big question is, will it be visible?

[Noel]

No. And I mean, there is no doubt from reading these interviews with Rifle that this was within the realm of possibility to accomplish. There was, of course, that slightly nagging concern of what if there's a malfunction and the rocket kind of crashes back into Earth or like slingshots off the moon or something like that. Right?

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Noel]

Certainly rife with potential problems, but what happened next?

[Ben]

So at this point, they're still evaluating this and they think they've come up with a plan. So just for contrast, this warhead that they decide to use, the W25, it is a very low yield, 1.7 kilotons. I said for comparison, little boy, the bomb that was dropped over Hiroshima in 1945 was between 13 and 18 kilotons. So this is not as big as bombs we have already dropped here on planet Earth. They thought, okay, we can hit it at the dark side of the moon, the hidden side of the moon. The dust cloud from the explosion will be lit up by the sun. And you can see that from Earth. And due to, as you said, Noel, the development of ICBMs, they believe that they could make this launch feasible by next year, by 1949.

[Matt]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. You know, when you're really stressed or not feeling so great about your life or about yourself, talking to someone who understands can really help. But who is that person? How do you find them? Where do you even start? Talkspace. Talkspace makes it easy to get the support you need. With Talkspace, you can go online, answer a few questions about your preferences, and be matched with a therapist. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule wherever you feel most at ease. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or if you want some counseling for you and your partner or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off of your first month with promo code space80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist. Today at talkspace.com save $80 with code [e-mail] there's a type of soil in.

[Larison Campbell]

Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange. And it's got a reputation.

[Ben]

It's terrible, terrible dirt.

[Matt]

Yazoo clay.

[Larison Campbell]

So things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

[Noel]

7,000 bodies out there or more, all.

[Larison Campbell]

Former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.

[Ben]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keep secrets. Nobody talks about it. Nobody has any information. When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.

[Matt]

The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.

[Larison Campbell]

I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to under yazukle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Damien Hirst]

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[John Cameron Mitchell]

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[Ben]

Go slower.

[Damien Hirst]

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[Noel]

Now take a big whiff, my bruh.

[Damien Hirst]

Listen to the hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[John Cameron Mitchell]

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[Noel]

How big is the Moon. Ben, how big is the moon?

[Ben]

I have a feeling. How. Wait, how, how big is it?

[Noel]

The moon's actually only 6,786 miles in circumference, whereas the Earth is 24,901 miles. So I. The reason I'm asking this. Yeah, it's, it's all very silly questions, but, you know, I would think, couldn't this like, cause problems with like the tides and stuff? I mean, isn't the moon responsible for regulating the tides and if you damaged it or. I don't know, I mean, I guess a nuclear blast wouldn't blow up the moon. That's a misnomer. It would cause a big old crater.

[Ben]

I looked into this. Okay, so first off, we know that they just wanted to make a visual splash.

[Noel]

They just wanted to scare the moon a little bit, right?

[Ben]

Right. But if they attempted to actually blow it up, it would take much, much, much more than the nuclear armaments that we currently possess, or especially that we possess. Then people have estimated that first off, to blow up the moon you would need 600,000 of the largest atomic weapons ever built. The Tsar Bomba the Soviet RDS220 hydrogen bomb. It's the most powerful explosive that's ever been detonated ever by humankind. Back in 1961. We'd need 600,000 of those. Not only would we need 600,000, we couldn't shoot them from Earth. We would have to dig into the moon, distribute them evenly, and then detonate them, which would take centuries. Nobody's going to do that. That is a scale of international cooperation that has never existed.

[Noel]

Or like something like some kind of fictional supervillain might consider doing.

[Ben]

Yeah, it's like a Dr. Doom thing. But this did remind me of something we were talking about off air that we thought you would enjoy, fellow ridiculous historians. The author Neal Stephenson, in the book Seven Eves, takes a hard sci fi look at what would happen if the moon actually exploded. And he does it in a way that is not a spoiler for the book, for the plot of the book, rather. So I think we're okay to read this, but if you consider these things spoilers, then this is your official warning. Noel, can you help me out with a spoiler countdown?

[Noel]

A three, a two, a one. Spoiler time.

[Ben]

Okay, so the first sentence of Neal Stephenson's 70s is the moon blew up without warning and for no apparent reason. That's how the novel starts. But what people quickly find is that when the moon blows up, pieces of it remain and they start falling toward Earth. So in the story 7 eves, the moon breaks up into about 7 more or less equal sized pieces. And for a while they just orbit Earth. But then two of the pieces collide and that causes a fragment that makes future collisions more likely. And it keeps repeating at an exponentially growing rate until Earth is under this constant bombardment from meteorites and they wipe out almost all life. The sky's ablaze.

[Noel]

Dang, that's intense.

[Ben]

So it's not a good idea for us to blow up the moon. Just in case anyone was on the fence about that. But one thing I thought, I thought was interesting too is the idea that just detonating a nuclear device, even a relatively small one on the moon, could have effects on certain aspects of it, right? I don't believe that single missile deployed from Project A119 would be powerful enough to alter orbit. Or maybe I'm just being hopeful. I hope it wouldn't.

[Noel]

Me too, Ben. Me too. But Ben, did you read that the Russians had a counter plan to blow up the Moon? I'm just going to keep calling it Blowing up the Moon because it just.

[Ben]

Sounds way more, it's way more fun.

[Noel]

Detonating a nuclear device on the surface of the moon.

[Ben]

What's the Russian equivalent? What were they kicking around?

[Noel]

Well, Ben, the Russians plan, according to a cool article in the New York Post called USA and USSR Plan to Nuke the Moon out of Existence. That's a little hyperbolic there. I like it. Theirs was called Project E4 and their idea was to hit the moon with their own missiles. But there were, you know, same pitfalls as our issue and this, this fear that the, the missile could like boomerang off the moon and you know, come back and hit the, hit the Earth, or that it could, you know, malfunction in mid flight and fall down on the Heartlands, Missouri or something like that. Who knows? This is just the dumbest or Moscow.

[Ben]

Cold War competition ever.

[Noel]

No, it's, it's, it's, it's, as you would like to put it, cartoonish, Ben. Yeah, it really is. It's like some seriously looney Tunes bananas business.

[Ben]

Now in the USSR's defense, they sort of eased into it. I'm saying that because this was part of a series of proposals, all of which bore the code name E. Project E1 was just like, here's how we're going to reach the moon. E2 and E3 were like, okay, once we reach it, here's how we send a probe to the dark side of the moon to take some photos and then E4 was like, here's how. Stay with me. We launch a nuke at the moon. And who knows, maybe it was another room of 10 people just walking around going, yeah, yeah, that's great. That's great. Okay, a probe's good. But you know what we should do? You know what I mean?

[Noel]

I do know what you mean, Ben. I do know what you mean. And, you know, it'd be pretty cool to go outside and have, like, a moment with the family where, like, kind of like watching an eclipse, you know, where you watch the mushroom cloud appearing on the moon. That'd be pretty intense. I think it would really instill some national pride in us, you know, that we're a smart country who does smart things.

[Ben]

While we.

[Noel]

For good reasons. Yeah.

[Ben]

While we were still able to think those things. Right.

[Noel]

Well, the Vice article makes a really good point about how, like, in the same way, we're experimenting with drones so much, and everyone's just so hot for the new technology that we have now militaristically, that the generals and the folks in charge at the time were really into exploring the power of nuclear energy.

[Ben]

Yeah, I think that's a great point, too. You know, everybody's so excited about this new technology. I mean, look at all the ridiculous things that we are attempting to do with drones, both in the commercial and private and public service sphere. But you know what's most disturbing to me about this story with project A119. It's not that it didn't happen. It's that the head scientist isn't sure why it never came to fruition. That's in the Vice article as well. He says he was horrified that such a gesture to sway public opinion was ever considered. And we've, you know, on a couple of different shows here at how stuff works, you and I both have dove headfirst into very strange plans by Uncle Sam to do one ridiculous thing or another. What was it? There was the Bat Bomb. There was the Cybercat Spy. There was the. What they called the gay bomb. They had some terrible ideas.

[Noel]

Yeah, it's true. I mean, there's certainly been a lot of harebrained schemes throughout military history, and this was one that I was not personally aware of, and one of the harebrainediest.

[Ben]

Well, let's say that you are listening to this episode and you have been sold on the idea. You respectfully disagree with your pals here at Ridiculous History, and you say, you know what? I've thought about it, and we should blow up the moon. We should at least Try our best to knock the crap out of it a couple of times with some nukes.

[Noel]

I mean, the moon's got it coming. Look at that face. Got the most punchable face.

[Ben]

It always just pushes. It's just pushing. I like how we're anti moon now.

[Noel]

Yeah, man, the moon. You ever seen the Mighty Boosh?

[Ben]

I have.

[Noel]

You know, the moon, it's like I'm the moon. He's kind of an idiot.

[Ben]

Well, I, you know, he doesn't deserve.

[Noel]

To get nuked though.

[Ben]

Does not deserve to get nuked. No one does. And that's why for those of us who support the plan to blow up the moon, today may be a tough day. This might be a tough episode because you see, not only did the project never come to fruition, but it will probably not happen for the immediate to mid future. Because in 1967, the United Nations Outer Space Treaty banned the use of nukes in space, making any study of nuking the moon illegal.

[Noel]

Nukes in space.

[Ben]

The heady days of the 50s to the early 60s.

[Noel]

That's true.

[Ben]

So now we know why there is still a moon. That's great. That's a great point.

[Noel]

All the trash I've been talking about the moon, I'm kind of glad to have it. It is nice. Clean it up there.

[Ben]

I love it. We recently had a blood moon as we recorded this episode. Did you catch that?

[Noel]

Did you do any weird pagan rituals that night, Ben?

[Ben]

Nah, nah, just the normal, normal ones. Normal rituals.

[Noel]

Gotcha. Gotcha.

[Matt]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. You know when you're really stressed or not feeling so great about your life or about yourself, talking to someone who understands can really help. But who is that person? How do you find them? Where do you even start? Talkspace. Talkspace makes it easy to get the support you need. With Talkspace, you can go online, answer a few questions about your preferences and be matched with a therapist. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule wherever you feel most at ease. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or if you want some counseling for you and your partner or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus, Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off of your first month with promo code space80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com save $80 with code [e-mail] there's a type of soil.

[Larison Campbell]

In Mississippi called Yazoo Clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.

[Ben]

It's terrible, terrible dirt.

[Matt]

Yazoo clay.

[Larison Campbell]

So things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

[Noel]

7,000 bodies out there or more, all.

[Larison Campbell]

Former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.

[Ben]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets. Nobody talks about it. Nobody has any information. When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.

[Matt]

The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.

[Larison Campbell]

I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to under yazukle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Damien Hirst]

Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here?

[John Cameron Mitchell]

Ow.

[Ben]

Go slower.

[Damien Hirst]

From Blumhouse TV, iheart podc podcasts, and ember 20 comes an all new fictional comedy podcast series. Join the flighty Damien Hirst as he unravels the mystery of his vanished boyfriend. And Santi was gone. I've been spending all my time looking for answers about what happened to Santi and what's the way to find a missing person. Sleep with everyone he knew, obviously. Mmm. Pillow talk, the most unwelcome window into the human psyche. Follow our out of his element hero as he engages in a series of ill conceived investigative hookups. Mama always used to say God gave me gumption in place of a gag reflex. And as I was about to learn, no amount of showering can wash your hands of a bad hookup.

[Noel]

Now take a big whiff, my bruh.

[Damien Hirst]

Listen to the hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[John Cameron Mitchell]

This is John Cameron Mitchell and my new fiction podcast series. Cancellation island stars Holly Hunter as Karen, a wellness influencer who launches a rehab for the recently canceled. In the future, we will all be canceled for 15 minutes. But don't worry, we'll take you from broke to woke or your money back. Cancellation Island's revolutionary rehab therapies, like bad touch football, anti racism spin class, and mandatory ayahuasca ceremonies are designed to force the council to confront their worst impulses. But everything starts to fall apart when people start disappearing.

[Larison Campbell]

Karen, where have you brought us?

[John Cameron Mitchell]

Cancellation island, where a Second Chance might just be your last Listen to Cancellation island on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben]

And so that is our story of the moon.

[Noel]

I know it's a little light, but you know what? It was self contained. We hit all the boxes. We talked about blowing up the moon. You guys, you got to hear Mr. Show clip. What more do you want from us? How about a little listener mail?

[Ben]

Okay, so our first one comes from Kimira in and Kimira wrote to us and said howdy. I enjoyed the podcast, but I tend to skip around to random episodes. Only started listening earlier this year, so there's still a lot of backlog for me too. I think we only started making this earlier this year.

[Noel]

Has it been that long?

[Ben]

I don't know how long it's been.

[Noel]

Or that short.

[Ben]

Casey, how long have we been doing this show?

[Noel]

How long have we been sitting in this room?

[Ben]

Let's see, the first episode came out October 24, 2017. Whoa. So it's been a minute. It's almost a year. Look at us. Well, anyway, so Kamira says I just listened to your recent Napoleon Bunnies episode. The bunny story was totally hilarious and I had to relate it to several of my friends. But I also super charmed with the anecdote about Napoleon's maybe crush on the Tsar and people shipping them. Since you said you were curious and fic about the two of them, I went spelunking and sure enough something came up. Although several of them were in languages other than English, it does seem it's much more popular to ship Napoleon with Arthur Wellesley, though fic writers do love them. Some hate shipping. Anyhow, here are the fics I did find with Napoleon Alexander that were in English. Not that I have read them fully or can vouch for quality. Haha. And she posted one of these fan fiction links and then she posted a sequel and then she posted another fan fiction and says in this one quote, Napoleon Bonaparte works at Thomas Jefferson Strip Club and falls for his co worker Arthur Wellesley, though it says it contains some Napoleon Alec stuff as well. I loved your episode on the History of Mooning, which I listened to earlier tonight. Thanks again for producing such an enjoyable podcast. Kamira. Thank you for checking out the show and doing that research for us. I will. You know, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this stuff probably isn't my thing, but I am going to read through to see if there is one that is safe for work and if it is, we'll go Ahead and post it on Ridiculous Historians. What do you think?

[Noel]

Have you seen that Ben and Noel fanfic that's floating around out there?

[Ben]

I have not. I have not. Did you write it?

[Noel]

Pretty steamy.

[Ben]

Did you write it?

[Noel]

No.

[Ben]

Maybe there's not, though, right? There's not.

[Noel]

I'm not gonna say.

[Ben]

Oh, man, the tension. Okay, who's next?

[Noel]

Next we have a quick one from Rex. Wesley R. Great name. He just says. Had to chime in on some listener mail you got about accents. As someone who was raised in both Georgia and California, I was usually told I had one when I was in California, but when I was in Georgia, I would get grief for not having one. I have not lived in the south for many years now and have lost it until I have had some drinks. So kind of along the same lines, what we talked about, then, it seems to come out with a vengeance. Thanks for the show, Rex.

[Ben]

Yeah, I saw that as well. Thank you so much, Rex. And I imagine that you are not alone in that experience. I've got some friends who sound pretty neutral in their American accents, but if they have a couple of drinks or a couple of glasses of wine, they sound like Boston townies. Like that.

[Noel]

Okay, I had to bring this one up because I think you've seen this too, Ben, but this is really interesting. It's called Thoughts on the Malleur Wildlife Refuge. I mean, I'm still flummoxed on the pronunciation of that. I'm going to say Malheure. The Malheure Wildlife Refuge episode, plus a little Blink 182 says, hey, guys, love the podcast and many others that you have your hands in. If you can make it all the way to the end of this email, you shall find a funny nugget regarding an episode from one of your other shows.

[Ben]

Way Way Point of order. I thought we were reading short ones.

[Noel]

Well, I'm going to summarize this mainly because it's like some bullet points. I think this is a great one. Yeah, I think it's very interesting. I just finished your episode on the wildlife refuge and felt compelled to immediately write to you. I imagine you've gotten some thoughts about this. We have indeed got some thoughts on this one, but I'd like to throw my two cents in because I believe in the absolute core of my being in the importance of preservation of all protected land in the US And I suppose because of this, I felt this episode surprisingly problematic and scary. I will try not to make this too long, but a couple of points that are burning behind my eyeballs Once a way to remove protections is found, this opens up a disastrous can of worms that could spiral out of control, especially under this administration. First, it's as innocent seeming as letting cows graze, and the next thing you know, someone's figured out how to get oil out of Yosemite. Secondly, preserving the biodiversity of ecosystems surrounding farmed land is essential to being able to farm that land. I hate to be a cliche, but it is quite literally a delicate balance. And once that is disrupted, that domino effect would absolutely lead to problems with the plants and animals that farmers rely on.

[Ben]

Great point.

[Noel]

What's the solution? Sustainable and responsible farming practices. Use the land responsibly rather than barrel through and then ask for more. Look at Easter island, for example. The running theory is that the people on that island used up every last resource they had and then they pretty much all died or left because they couldn't sustain themselves anymore. Bad plan. Those are really the points that I wanted to get to. I think this is really interesting and something we did not really discuss in the episode. The idea of the benefits. We discussed some of the pitfalls of some of this preservation, but not so much maintaining that biodiversity.

[Ben]

I think that ecosystem point is essential and I'm really glad we got that on air. I think this is also worth it. Elise, I think you have a great story about Tom delong.

[Noel]

You want to do that one, Ben?

[Ben]

Sure. Yeah. Okay. So, Elise, you say about five years ago I just moved to la. I went to one of their lab concerts as the former Blink 182A pal. Mine was their agent at the time. So after the show a handful of us went to the Green Room for post show business stuff or whatever it is they do. We plopped down for a BS sesh. It's a cool phrase in Tom's dressing room and I saw that he has stack of space books and the TV was just playing loops of space videos. At some point, knowing Tom's affinity for aliens, I began to ask about what was on the TV and was immediately met with a chorus of no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Noel]

No, no, no, no.

[Ben]

From everyone there who knew him.

[Noel]

They said, do not get him started on space.

[Ben]

So Elise goes on to say she managed to avoid that, but Long was a really nice guy and a little bit weird, but overall very endearing. So this was a great letter with some important points, some amusing anecdotes, and to explain for anybody who hasn't checked out our other shows, stuff they don't want you to know. We recently did an episode on Tom DeLonge, who has quit Blink 182 to pursue his beliefs about unidentified aerial phenomenon full time. That sounds about right.

[Noel]

It does sound about right. And it also sounds like the other guys in Blink 182 were kind of being bullies to poor Tom. So, you know, let that boy have his space.

[Ben]

Yeah. And this concludes our listener mail, but not our show. Let us know what other strange, secret, hopefully hilarious, Cold War plans you have happened across in your neck of the global woods. It doesn't have to be just us stuff. We would love to hear weird plan from Australia, New Zealand, wherever you can make these suggestions on ridiculous historians. Our Facebook, on our Instagram, on our Twitter. You can email us directly where we are ridiculousowstuffworks.com as always, we'd like to.

[Noel]

Thank our super producer Casey Pegram Alex Williams, who composed our theme, Christopher Haciotes, our researcher extraordinaire and we'd like to thank you. See you next time. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Matt]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. You know when you're really stressed or not feeling so great about your life or about yourself, talking to someone who understands can really help. But who is that person? How do you find them? Where do you even start? Talkspace Talkspace makes it easy to get the support you need. With Talkspace, you can go online, answer a few questions about your preferences, and be matched with a therapist. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule wherever you feel most at ease. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or if you want some counseling for you and your partner or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus, Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off of your first month with promo code space80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com save $80 with code space80 at talk.

[Larison Campbell]

In Mississippi. Yazoo Clay keeps secrets.

[Noel]

7,000 bodies out there or more.

[Larison Campbell]

A forgotten asylum cemetery.

[Ben]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Larison Campbell]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Ben]

Each season we explore a new theme, from poisoners to art thieves.

[Larison Campbell]

We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Ben]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Larison Campbell]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Damien Hirst]

Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here?

[John Cameron Mitchell]

Ow.

[Ben]

Go slower.

[Damien Hirst]

From Blumhouse TV, iheart podcasts and ember 20 comes an all new fictional comedy podcast series. Join the flighty Damien Hirst to see unreleased ravels the mystery of his vanished boyfriend. I've been spending all my time looking for answers about what happened to Santi and what's the way to find a missing person? Sleep with everyone he knew, obviously. Listen to the hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.