CLASSIC: The Origins Of, and Backlash Against, Father's Day

Summary

Ridiculous History: CLASSIC – The Origins Of, and Backlash Against, Father's Day

Release Date: June 14, 2025
Hosts: Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown | Produced by iHeartPodcasts

---

Introduction

In this classic episode of Ridiculous History, hosts Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown delve into the intriguing origins and societal reactions surrounding Father's Day. Celebrating fathers has evolved into a significant cultural event, but its journey to national recognition was anything but straightforward.

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Early Attempts and Origins of Father's Day

The concept of Father's Day wasn't always embraced with enthusiasm. Initially, the idea faced skepticism and resistance, as many perceived celebrating fathers as too effeminate compared to the already established Mother's Day.

Ben reflects on the early days:
"A few years back, we were surprised to find that Father's Day, which we've always accused of being kind of a hallmark in creation, was not immediately popular when it was proposed originally because people thought celebrating your father was a little too effeminate."
[00:38]

One pivotal figure in the establishment of Father's Day was Sonora Smart Dodd from Spokane, Washington. Inspired by her father's dedication in raising six children single-handedly after her mother's death, Sonora proposed a day to honor fathers.

Noel shares Sonora's motivation:
"She says, my dad's awesome, and I want to show appreciation for all the hard work he did. It's incredibly... it can be incredibly difficult being a single parent, especially to six children."
[18:05]

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Presidential Support and National Recognition

Gaining national traction required influential support. Silent Cal Coolidge, known for his taciturn nature, was a proponent of Father's Day, advocating for its recognition despite his general disinterest in the presidency.

Ben comments on Coolidge’s involvement:
"Silent Cal is a fan of Father's Day in general. He supports this date. He supports this observance."
[12:49]

The movement gained further momentum when President Lyndon Johnson issued a presidential proclamation in 1966 recognizing Father's Day. However, it wasn't until President Richard Nixon signed legislation in 1972 that Father's Day was officially designated as a national holiday on the third Sunday of June.

Noel reflects on Nixon’s role:
"And there's two stories of when the first legit Father's Day was celebrated... In some versions of the story, celebration in Washington State in June 19, 1910... But eventually, in 1972, President Richard Nixon signed legislation saying the third Sunday of June is going to be Father's Day."
[21:08]

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Backlash and Commercialization

Despite its growing acceptance, Father's Day faced significant backlash. Critics argued that the holiday was another commercial endeavor akin to a "second Christmas" for men, pushing traditional and often stereotypical gifts like ties and socks.

Noel highlights the commercialization critique:
"They said this feels kind of effeminate because we have this association with Mother's Day, which came first."
[08:49]

Ben adds to the sentiment:
"These holidays are proliferating and they're all just a gimmick to sell more stuff. And hey, we the fathers are also paying for the Father's Day stuff as the sole breadwinners of our family."
[31:42]

The commercialization not only commodified fatherhood but also reinforced rigid gender roles, leading to further resistance from those who felt emasculated by the sentimentality associated with the holiday.

---

Evolution and Inclusivity

Over time, the perception of fatherhood has shifted from traditional roles to a more inclusive and partnership-oriented model. Modern fatherhood emphasizes co-parenting and emotional support, moving away from the sole breadwinner archetype.

Aurelia C. Scott, quoted from almanac.com, observes:
"The idea of fatherhood fundamentally changed. It's not viewed as a feminine model with flowers, but it's a day that celebrates this idea of dadness."
[27:05]

This evolution has made Father's Day more inclusive, allowing acknowledgment of father figures beyond biological parents, such as uncles, mentors, and friends who fulfill paternal roles.

Ben emphasizes the importance of personalization:
"What if your dad likes flowers? Right. Give the man flowers. Give the man what he wants."
[28:20]

---

International Perspectives

Father's Day is celebrated worldwide, often with unique cultural twists. In Taiwan, the holiday coincides with August 8th (8/8), playing on the Mandarin word for father, "Ba." This date was chosen because "eight" sounds like "Ba," making it an auspicious and easy-to-remember celebration.

Noel explains the Taiwanese connection:
"It's because the Mandarin Chinese word for eight sounds like the word papa. You know? I know you know a bit of Mandarin Chinese. It's Ba."
[46:11]

Similarly, in Thailand, Father's Day is celebrated on December 5th, the birthday of the late King Bhumibol Adulyadej, honoring him as a father figure to the nation.

Ben mentions Thailand's observance:
"And death day is always Father's Day. Because think about it, you're a business, you're an ad company, and you have to somehow get out of the red and into the black ink. So they double down to try to make Father's Day what they thought of as a second Christmas for dudes."
[37:58]

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Conclusion

Father's Day has undergone significant transformation from its contentious beginnings to its current status as a widely recognized holiday. While commercialization and rigid gender roles initially hindered its acceptance, evolving notions of fatherhood have made the day more inclusive and meaningful.

Noel offers a final thought on genuine appreciation:
"Just send your dad a text and say something that you think is cool about him and make sure it's sincere. You don't have to wait for a specific day to do that."
[41:45]

Both hosts emphasize the importance of personalized gestures over obligatory gift-giving, advocating for authentic expressions of gratitude irrespective of a designated day.

---

Notable Quotes

• Ben Bowlin ([00:38]):
  "Father's Day was not immediately popular when it was proposed originally because people thought celebrating your father was a little too effeminate."

• Noel Brown ([18:05]):
  "I want to show appreciation for all the hard work he did. It's incredibly... it can be incredibly difficult being a single parent, especially to six children."

• Ben Bowlin ([31:42]):
  "These holidays are proliferating and they're all just a gimmick to sell more stuff. And hey, we the fathers are also paying for the Father's Day stuff as the sole breadwinners of our family."

• Noel Brown ([41:45]):
  "Just send your dad a text and say something that you think is cool about him and make sure it's sincere. You don't have to wait for a specific day to do that."

---

Final Thoughts

Ridiculous History adeptly navigates the complexities surrounding Father's Day, highlighting its humble beginnings, the societal pushback it encountered, and its eventual embrace as a meaningful celebration of fatherhood. By intertwining historical facts with personal anecdotes and cultural observations, Ben and Noel provide listeners with a comprehensive and engaging exploration of this "ridiculous" yet cherished holiday.

---

For more intriguing historical tales and analyses, tune into Ridiculous History by iHeartRadio.

Transcript

[Ben]

Fellow ridiculous historians, we are returning to you this weekend with a celebration and a classic episode. Happy Father's Day to all the fathers out there.

[Noel]

Dude, have you seen the movie the Miami Connection?

[Ben]

Have I. Why am I asking you? I don't know.

[Noel]

It's okay. It's an 80s absolute bonkers B movie that involves ninjas and some tough fighting guys who are in a hair metal band called Dragonsound. But there's this one plotline, this one dude from Dragonstown, who I think is the keyboard player who's trying to find his father. And at one point, he gets a letter in the mail. And it gets this really heartwarming scene where he goes. He opens the letter and he goes, my father. And then he goes, oh, my God, just look up that scene. It'll warm your damn heart. It's so good. It's a terrible movie that was made by a taekwondo master to promote his taekwondo school, but amazing. Yeah, dude. It's got songs that are about the stuff that happens.

[Ben]

I love that.

[Noel]

We'll fight the ninjas, then we'll get the cocaine. It's so good.

[Ben]

That's great. We hope that you enjoy our exploration of Father's Day. A few years back, we were surprised to find that Father's Day, which we've always accused of being kind of a hallmark in creation. Father's Day was not immediately popular when it was proposed originally because people thought celebrating your father was a little too effeminate.

[Noel]

Let's roll that beautiful Father's Day footage.

[Max]

This is an I heart podcast.

[Tom Brokaw]

Nearly 90% of kids who vape say flavors are why they do it.

[Max]

A lot of the flavors that I've heard are like peach, mango, watermelon. It makes it seem like water. More childlike and innocent. Oh, I tried this once. It won't be that much of a problem. But then eventually it becomes a problem.

[Tom Brokaw]

It's time to restrict the sale of flavored tobacco products in Oregon and protect our kids from nicotine addiction. Urge lawmakers to Pass Senate Bill 702A. Take action at flavorshookoregonkids.org paid for by the Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids Action Fund.

[Noel]

NBC Nightly News.

[Ben]

Legacy isn't handed down or NBC News.

[Noel]

I'm Tom Brokaw. You hope to see you back here. I'm Lester Holt.

[Ben]

It's carried forward.

[Noel]

Tom Yamas is there for.

[Ben]

Firefighters are still working around the clock. As the world changes, we look for what endures. We are coming on the air with breaking news right now. We look for a constant and from one era to the next Trust is the anchor for NBC Nightly News. I'm Tom Yamas. A new chapter begins NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas.

[Holly Fry]

Evenings on NBC, explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tremerki, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers, known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s. Her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Find more crime and cocktails on Criminalia. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jake Hanrahan]

I'm Jake Hanrahan, journalist and documentary filmmaker. Away Days is my new project reporting on countercultures on the fringes of society all across the world. Live from the underground, you'll discover no rules fighting, Japanese street racing, Brazilian favela life, and much more. All real, completely uncensored. Listen to the Away Days podcast, reporting from the underbelly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you as always, so much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our super producer, Max Live Williams.

[Noel]

I was gonna say Max Liar Williams. He's not to be trusted. He gave us this big countdown to our first session in the new studio, and turns out he'd been recording the whole time.

[Matt Frederick]

The whole damn time.

[Noel]

God forbid those outtakes ever make it into the world.

[Ben]

Oh, yeah, it's gonna be over for us. It's true, though. I'm Ben. You' we are here in person at the new studios. This is for any longtime listener. This is the first time you and I have recorded in a actual podcast studio instead of something we bootlegged.

[Noel]

Totally. Not to mention the first time Ridiculous History has recorded in person in over a year. I'd say we dabbled post pandemic in our previous offices, but frankly, we just kind of gotten so used to the workflow. Being able to podcast in our underwear, it was a hard sell to leave the house. Now we're here, pants and all, excited to be here.

[Matt Frederick]

How do you know I have pants? I'm in different rooms.

[Noel]

Don't need to know. It's true. We can't see below the belt on Max. He's in a whole glass, you know, booth situation. It's very.

[Ben]

I don't even know there's another camera. He refuses to turn it on, but there's a camera that lets us see what Max is doing.

[Noel]

Pants cam.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Matt Frederick]

Well, actually it's only the upper half. So you still want to know?

[Ben]

All right. Well, as you are, as you are probably aware by the nature of the title here, folks, in typical ridiculous history fashion, we are celebrating a holiday after it happens.

[Noel]

Only a couple days though.

[Ben]

We're getting closer.

[Noel]

And to get all timey wimey about it, we're recording it well before the holiday. The holiday falls this coming Sunday. We're recording this on a Thursday and you'll be hearing it on a Tuesday. Wrap your brain around that.

[Ben]

This is the world in which we live and this is a holiday that is, I think it's the Pepsi to the Coca Cola that is Mother's Day.

[Noel]

Yeah. It was a well meaning idea that wasn't immediately adopted until people figured out how they could make a buck off of it.

[Ben]

That's right.

[Noel]

And then followed by backlash against those well meaning, aforementioned well meaning folks.

[Ben]

It's Father's Day.

[Noel]

Bless their heart.

[Ben]

Yes. Bless their hearts indeed. Noel, as a father, I think you were telling me off air that you forgot about the holiday until. Until your family reminded you.

[Noel]

Well, isn't that as it should be? Well, what am I going to be counting down the days to Father's Day? Where's my whatever you get on Father's Day? My card. I'm not petty like that. I'm petty in other ways. Tie would be good. Not a tie guy, though. Maybe a. A money clip.

[Ben]

Yeah. A new wallet. Maybe you could get into cravats.

[Noel]

There you go. Wait, isn't that the same thing as a tie?

[Ben]

Yeah, it's just like, it's a fancier but somehow lazier version of a tie.

[Noel]

What's the short tie ascot that Fred wears on Scooby Doo?

[Ben]

Oh, that's an ascot. Ascot. Yeah. You could get ascot. That's definitely a choice. I got to say though, Father's Day, it's funny because like a lot of people, I don't think we really explore the history. Most times you just remember, oh, that day's coming up. And you remember it like right before.

[Noel]

At least I do usually because Google changes their logo. Yeah. I was informed that I will be taken to a brunch on Sunday, the Father's Day. And I honestly, they said it like, as though I were supposed to know when that was going to be. And I had no idea because I needed to put it in my calendar to some degree and I just. They gave me the date and there it is. And I'll. I'll show up.

[Ben]

Oh, good. Your presence is the presence.

[Noel]

Yes. Yeah.

[Ben]

So, okay. As we. As we learned with Mother's Day, you described that heartbreaking kind of commonality they have. Father's Day is kind of recent too, I guess, in the grand scheme of things. I thought for a long time, I thought it was like an early 1800s day.

[Noel]

I don't think I had much of a concept for it. I just always lumped it in with kind of the greeting card holidays of the world, you know, Woodrow Wilson, as we mentioned in the Mother's Day episode, described Mother's Day as a way to recognize that tender, gentle army, the mothers of America. And turns out part of the backlash around making Father's Day a thing was that it was like two. Like it was for girls. You know what I mean?

[Ben]

I will not be recognized by my family.

[Noel]

I will be recognized by my labors and the sweat of my brow.

[Ben]

You shall have one firm handshake upon your 18th birthday, and then we will never speak again. Exactly. And yeah, it's weird. People said, well, this feels kind of effeminate because we have this association with Mother's Day, which came first. Did come first. Did come first. And Father's Day then became an interesting concept that not everybody was on board with. We know that people were trying to make Father's Day a thing in the early 1900s, I think, in West Virginia in 1908.

[Noel]

Yeah, they were really trying to make fetch happen. Father's day, Fairmont, West Virginia, July 5, 1908. Grace, Golden, Clayton.

[Ben]

Love it.

[Noel]

Fabulous old timey name. Suggested to a local Methodist minister that services be held to commemorate and celebrate the fathers who lost their lives in a deadly mine explosion.

[Ben]

Hundreds of dudes. 361 dudes. So this is a very well intentioned thing, as you said, but it's coming out of a tragedy.

[Noel]

Could have made it just a memorial for the thing. Not necessarily have to lump in all fathers here. But again, good intentions, but a little weird. It feels like maybe that wasn't going to stick.

[Ben]

Mm. And it sounds like different local communities had their own kind of Father's Day esque things for a while. Just like in the case of Mother's Day, there was this unofficial push to make it a national holiday that occurred on the same day for everyone across the nation. And a guy that we are gonna cover in an upcoming episode, William Jennings Bryant, wjb. Yeah. Yeah. He was a huge Father's Day Fan. He was saying, you know, if you think that's effeminate for kids to love their parents, then you got some work to do.

[Noel]

That's more of a you thing. That's a you.

[Ben]

That's not an us thing.

[Matt Frederick]

Also, touch the silver. Also, I have to backtrack, guys, because we mentioned Woodrow Wilson, and I didn't say anything but Woodrow Wilson, go yourself.

[Noel]

Yeah, not a great guy. Boyhood home. I've already mentioned all that stuff. Here's another president, though, with a cool nickname that I was not aware of. We've got Woodrow go yourself, Wilson. And then we've got Calvin Silent Cal Coolidge. Did you ever heard that before? This is new to me.

[Ben]

I haven't heard Silent Cal, which is awesome. But I do know why he has the nickname. He's a famously taciturn. Yeah, taciturn, famously terse guy one time. And Max, you know this story, too. He was at. Coolidge was at a party, Silent cow. And someone said, I bet I could get three words out of you. And he looked at them and he kind of like, I guess, what do you call it in the drag community? He read them and then he went, you lose.

[Matt Frederick]

So there's another story about him, and it's basic. So he became president when Harding died in office. He was Harding's vp. It was like the last year, Harding's first term. And he just kind of got reelected because he was already in there, I guess. Guy seems fine enough, but he didn't really have interest in actually being the president. So I think this story is pretty hypocrisy. But supposedly he handed one of his aides a letter and got on a boat and rowed out into the middle of a lake. And letter said, I am not running for reelection. And he just rode away and left.

[Noel]

Hallelujah. Calvin rode the boat ashore. I was thinking, though, the three words. Thinking, he also could have said, go yourself. That would have been good. But then he would have lost because.

[Ben]

He would have said three words, but.

[Noel]

It would have been mean. It would have been an own, but also like a self own, kind of.

[Ben]

He was like the yin to Churchill's yang. No snarkiness. Who, you know, come along later. But Silent Cal. So I don't want to derail us. That is a really cool nickname. He was a fan of Father's Day, right?

[Noel]

Yeah. And that's what it takes to get these things to pick up steam. You gotta have some high powered supporters. And even though Silent Cal didn't say a whole lot and maybe didn't really want to be president. He did seem to take the whole Father's Day as a national holiday concept and run with it, but not enough that it actually happens.

[Tom Brokaw]

Nearly 90% of kids who vape say flavors are why they do it.

[Max]

A lot of the flavors that I've heard are like peach, mango, watermelon. It makes it seem like more childlike and innocent. Oh, I try this once, it won't be that much of a problem. But then eventually it becomes a problem.

[Tom Brokaw]

It's time to restrict the sale of flavored tobacco products in Oregon and protect our kids from from nicotine addiction. Urge lawmakers to Pass Senate Bill 702A. Take action at flavorshookoregonkids.org Pay for by the Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids Action Fund.

[Zoe Saldana]

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[Ben]

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[Tom Brokaw]

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Noel]

She said, you left bruises. Pulled her hair, that type of thing?

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Holly Fry]

Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tremarchi, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers, known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s, her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Hear the story of the Gentleman Robbery, the romantic darling of the ladies, and a tale about a wager over a sack of potatoes. But you'll have to tune in to learn who won that one. Some highwaymen were well mannered or faked it. People were concerned about the romanticism of robbers, but most were just thugs. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Call them robbers or bandits. Some are legendary figures. Listen to stories about historical crimes on Criminalia now, Plus the cocktails and mocktails inspired by each. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben]

Yeah, it's weird because we know Wilson was on board, Coolidge was on board. But if you look at the origin story of Father's Day, you see that there are two stories of when the first legit Father's Day was celebrated. In some versions of the story, you'll hear celebration in Washington State in June 19, 1910. A resident of Spokane with another great name, Sonora Smart Dodd.

[Noel]

I'm gonna be that actually guy. Ben. If I were a Washingtonian, I would chastise you and say it's actually Spokane.

[Ben]

Spokane.

[Noel]

They will come to come at you for that. Yeah, I only found out because I did a podcast that was based in and around.

[Ben]

I remember that.

[Noel]

Spokane.

[Matt Frederick]

I'm glad you said something. I'm gonna be in Spokane later this year, so.

[Noel]

Well, now you can talk like a local.

[Ben]

Thank you to the good. Thank you, Nolan. Thank you to the good people of Spokane.

[Noel]

Indeed.

[Ben]

So Sonora Smart Dodd, though. That's a good name. Fabulous, right? She. Okay. She was listening to a Mother's Day sermon at a church. It's 1909, and she says, hang on a tick. Mothers are getting all this praise. I'm not against mothers, but I think fathers should get their own day as well.

[Noel]

Yeah. You know, equal time.

[Ben]

Right.

[Noel]

It's like running for office right now. Sonora's father was a real man's man. William Smart. Mr. Smart. A civil War veteran, a widower. His wife had passed during childbirth of their sixth child. As was much more common in those days, he raised six children by himself on their farm, on their homestead in Washington state. And, you know, I think where you're seeing where we're going with this here, he's a great example of, like, look, fathers can be mothers, too, which might.

[Ben]

Have added to the objections. Huh. That's a good point. Yeah. And she said, you know, my dad's awesome, and I want to show appreciation for all the hard work he did. It's incredibly. It can be incredibly difficult being a single parent, especially to six children. So she says, I want to pay homage to him, but I also want to say it's for other dads in general, because I don't think I can make me liking my dad specifically. A national holiday.

[Noel]

Totally. They definitely could have made the mine explosion that killed 400 men at least a regional day of mourning. Right. But a holiday celebrating one dude who experienced personal tragedy. Not really how these things work.

[Ben]

Yeah, it's tough. She initially said, okay, we're gonna do it on June 15th. That's the anniversary of my father's death, and we'll celebrate Father's Day throughout all the land. But eventually, I think due to some crossed wires in planning or scheduling, you know how local government is.

[Noel]

Do I ever.

[Ben]

Right. This celebration got moved to the third Sunday in June. So it's one of those confusing ones.

[Noel]

I hate them.

[Ben]

I don't understand them.

[Noel]

One reason I'll never be able to tell you what day any of those types of holidays are on, because first of all, I'll never remember which Sunday in June were talking about.

[Ben]

Right.

[Noel]

And the second is the third. It's like, I just don't remember things with numbers in them typically. Anyway, like.

[Ben]

And think, like, Thanksgiving is probably one of the big examples of that and Easter, too. But Thanksgiving, I'm always like, well, I just. I guess I need to make sure I'm not doing anything for four Thursdays in November because it's one of those.

[Noel]

I'm like, it's on a Thursday. I definitely, if you look at my Google history, plenty of what day is Thanksgiving this year? You know, try to get that locked down in advance. But, yeah, it's true. There was some Crossed wires, you know, local government being what it is, third Sunday in June, as is often the case with regional celebrations, the clergy backed it. And that's also a part of what led it to kind of take off. And the very first official Father's Day was celebrated on June 19, year of our Lord, 1910. That was the month of the birthday of Dodd's father. Close enough, close enough. First month.

[Ben]

And like we said, Silent Cal is a fan of Father's Day in general. He supports this date. He supports this observance. And fast forward, 1966, President Lyndon.

[Noel]

Big Jumbo.

[Ben]

Jumbo.

[Noel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben]

Big Jumbo Johnson is jumbo. Or dumbo Jumbo Jumbo. It was definitely. We did a thing about it. Yeah. He said, okay, I'm issuing a presidential proclamation recognizing as Father's Day, it becomes a national holiday. In 1972, when President Richard Nixon. Tricky Dick, we do great impressions of him. He signed legislation saying the third Sunday of June is going to be Father's Day. That's according to the one story.

[Noel]

Go, Dick.

[Ben]

He's tricky.

[Noel]

He did that one thing that was good, I guess. I don't know. We're not really taking a stance on Father's Day here, by the way. That is not for us to decide.

[Ben]

No, no, that's. That's. That's for the fathers.

[Noel]

I would just say in general, holidays of this ilk are od.

[Ben]

They're often. I mean, the creator of Mother's Day was right. They become commodifications. They become cash grabs, you know? But the heart of it, again, it's a cool idea. It's nice. And as cool as Sonora Smart Dodd was and is. She wasn't the first person to have this idea. Right. Or wasn't the only person.

[Noel]

No. Again, I'm not trying to. Again, not trying to be a jerk here or poo poo. Anybody's idea. But this isn't exactly the most creative, you know, uni. Singular idea to ever be thunk. It's just like, hey, what if we had a day that celebrated fathers?

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Noel]

Let's call it Father's Day.

[Ben]

You could slot in anything. You know what I mean?

[Noel]

Yeah. So it's really all just about, like, who had the gumption to really get it together and push for it. That's really more what the story is rather than who came up with the idea, because it's just, as a father, not particularly creative. So, yes, to your point, of course, there are several origin stories to Father's Day. We talked about the Fairmont Father's Day celebration. We have three years after the Fairmont event, a Chicago activist, SJW by the name of Jane Adams, two D's requested of the local legislature a citywide celebration or the very least recognition of Father's Day, but she was denied.

[Ben]

Dang. Chicago shut her down. Let's see, that's early 1900s, so she probably couldn't pay off the bribes.

[Noel]

Oh, yeah, that's like. Well, yeah, I mean, it's not. Is it Tammany hall era? No, that's a little earlier. It's. Chicago has been a hive of scum and villainy politically for a long time. So maybe she just didn't grease the right palms or pay the vig.

[Ben]

Yeah, that's. I don't think that's a hot take, unfortunately, either. We do know other people tried to create their own versions of Father's Day. We'll get to. I'll tell you, we'll get to my personal favorite in a little bit, but we also need to shout out Vancouver, Washington resident JJ Barringer, who read something in a local newspaper and said, all right, we're going to hold a Father's Day celebration at my church, Irving Methodist, and we'll call it the first Father's Day event. Not because he was a jerk, it's because he did not know other people had had this idea before.

[Noel]

You kind of wonder too, the religious angle here with, like, some of these Methodist ministers sort of spearheading this. You know, there's of course, the Holy Trinity, Father, Son, the Holy Ghost. It is a very patriarchal kind of canon, let's say. You gotta wonder if that was part of why they were, like, pushing for this. Yeah, Father's Day. It's got a nice ring to it.

[Ben]

When did it become the Holy Spirit instead of the Holy Ghost?

[Noel]

Good question. I'm sure we could. Could ask Dr. Internet that and it would spit it right back out. Or chatgpt. Maybe it would make something up. That's been my latest interest in the whole chatbot thing is it's just we talked about it on stuff they don't want you. The idea of chatbots hallucinating things out.

[Ben]

Of whole cloth, I love it. Of making up entire entirely fraudulent court cases.

[Noel]

Yeah, exactly. And not. Not after being asked to invent something or tell me a story. Like, people are using these. This tool to legitimately ch at homework or like, you know, writing legal briefs and it is biting them in the butt because apparently old Chatty, as you call him sometimes, is improvising.

[Ben]

Let's ask Chatgpt to make holidays for us and report back on it.

[Noel]

That'd be fun.

[Ben]

That'd be fun. Let's see what it do. Okay, here's the favorite one though. Here's the favorite one. And I think you love this one too. Because people couldn't communicate as easily as our research associate Jeff points out. They ran into problems figuring out who was first in the postal. Father's Day.

[Noel]

Who's the hood in the verse?

[Ben]

Yeah. Right. So in 1915, this guy, the ironically named Harry C. Meek, says, I am the inventor of Father's Day. I'm making it up. It should be on my birthday.

[Noel]

Cool. Yeah. Neither meek nor mild in the eyes of the father, just the chutzpah of it, you know, 100% on my birthday. I mean, surely it wasn't a self aggrandizing request. He just figured, you know, everybody's got that same birthday. Right? Like, you know, he pushed the Lions.

[Ben]

Club to acknowledge that he started Father's Day.

[Noel]

Yeah. He spent. This was not just like a one day, you know, like wild hair that he got. Like, he made this like a pursuit, you know, he pushed this line for quite a few years. And again, that's what it takes. People that insist upon themselves, people that just won't let things go. Those are the people that history remembers. The most pedantic ones among us usually.

[Ben]

Yeah. Quite often, you know, the people who raised enough of a fuss. And as you said, there was this backlash against Father's Day and part of it. This is a really interesting thing brought up in almanac.com so going to give a shout out to Aurelia C. Scott, who wrote this article. She points out that the idea of fatherhood fundamentally changed. It's not viewed as a feminine model with flowers, but it's a day that celebrates this idea of dadness. And a lot of my friends who are fathers, yourself included, will say, well, my kids are being very sweet and I love them, but how many socks do they think I need?

[Noel]

Yeah, I borderline resent being taken to brunch. That's a woman's meal.

[Ben]

I'm just kidding.

[Noel]

I'm joking. I am very much joking.

[Ben]

I love it.

[Noel]

Big fan of brunch, but no, it's funny, right? Because the fact that that even has to be explained or it's, it's, it's inherently absurd. Right. It's like it doesn't have to be. It's, it's, it's not the same. And it's about the person. What if your dad likes flowers? Right. Give the man flowers. Give the man what he wants.

[Ben]

What if your dad wants a spa day? Send him to a spa.

[Noel]

I will be the first one to admit I get pretty regular pedicures and I love a good massage or a spa day. No, and it's very true, but this idea of this feminine model, this precursor in Mother's Day being problematic or somehow challenging the masculinity of, you know, fathers is absurd to me. But, you know, we gotta think about the time, right?

[Ben]

Sure. Yeah. And I guess there were more of what were often called traditional gender roles. Right. There weren't as many women in the workplace. The modern role of the father, you could argue, as does Aurelia C. Scott, has changed to more of a partnership, which I think is probably healthier for everybody involved. Right now we're co parenting. You know what I mean? Now it's not just some guy working 9 to 5 or whatever coming home and saying, where's dinner? Why does this kid have a seat? This thing is dirty, I'm getting drunk and going to sleep.

[Noel]

So I think what we're saying and what this article is saying is that it evolved in a positive direction to look at mothers and fathers on more of an equal playing field. So what I was railing against was sort of the initial backlash of like, how dare you celebrate me in the same way as you would have a mere woman?

[Ben]

And that's so valid, though. That's part of it. Because we know people. Okay, I'm a little torn about this. So the initial people objecting to Father's Day were doing exactly what you're talking about. They said this is a sentimental attempt to emasculate us almost with flowers and with giving of gifts, which is crazy. Gifts are awesome inherently. I love free stuff.

[Noel]

Yeah, it's great. And it's also thoughtful gifts. That's the key. Right. I really. I'm against kind of like holidays that require some sort of, like, pat expected gift, like flowers. I mean, flowers are cool. And if you want to get somebody flowers, get them something based on, like, a color, you know, they love or like a particular flower, you know, that makes them happy. Don't just grab the nearest bouquet and shove it in their face. I would typically. I mean, I just think gift giving is such an opportunity to show somebody that you think about them and that you're aware of aspects of their personality.

[Ben]

Yeah. And also, I don't think you should have to tie it to a holiday.

[Noel]

No.

[Ben]

I think the coolest gifts are for no reason at all. Not because you're in trouble, not because someone decided it should be an official day for something. Do something nice for people you love.

[Noel]

I get my kid and my partner and friends gifts all the time just because. And honestly, for holidays and stuff, I'm typically the guy that's stopping at the grocery store on the way home to grab something because I'm fulfilling that expectation. And I frankly kind of resent that.

[Ben]

Then here's the valid part of the argument for people who had a backlash against Father's Day that I think we both can agree with. They said, we know about Mother's Day. It's a grift. And Father's Day is no different. These holidays are proliferating and they're all just a gimmick to sell more stuff. And hey, we the fathers are also paying for the Father's Day stuff as.

[Noel]

The sole breadwinners of our family.

[Ben]

Why am I paying for flowers for myself? They said so. I get the anti capitalist part about it, the anti commodification. But yeah, I think maybe people were a little insecure or a little caught in their preconceptions about masculinity.

[Noel]

They were in their feelings.

[Ben]

They were in their feelings. Yeah.

[Noel]

Yeah. But not in like a touchy feely kind of way.

[Ben]

No, no. In a very emotionally damaged way.

[Noel]

100%. And I didn't kind of think I caught this in the Mother's Day episode, but this idea, maybe it came up briefly specifically for Mother's Day, but in the 1920s and 30s, there was actually a movement to get rid of both of these holidays entirely in favor of combining them into one parents day. How'd that go?

[Tom Brokaw]

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[Max]

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[Tom Brokaw]

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You something in return for karma.

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Let me check this pocket.

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I've got cupcakes in the car.

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[Andrea Gunning]

I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all his wife, Caroline.

[Tom Brokaw]

He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me.

[Andrea Gunning]

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[Noel]

She said you left bruises, pulled her hair, that type of thing.

[Ben]

No.

[Andrea Gunning]

How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done?

[Noel]

You're unable to keep track of all your lies, and quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future.

[Andrea Gunning]

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[Noel]

That take off. I mean, I don't think I've heard of Parents Day.

[Ben]

It's around in other countries maybe. Yeah, yeah. You know, parents are generally a good thing. So you're right, though it did not encounter near the success of Father's Day, let alone Mother's Day. It's strange to me that for a while during that time period, during the 20s and 30s, every year that Mother's Day occurred, these groups would protest it. They would be pro Parents Day groups and they would go to Central park because they liked having problems, I guess.

[Noel]

Seems so. I mean, the idea of there being a Parents Day activist, this guy Robert Speer, who said that both parents should. Should be loved and respected together, like at the same time, I don't know about. I guess it's sort of like a killing two birds with one stone situation. You know, one holiday to rule them all.

[Matt Frederick]

But it feels like this guy just wanted to be mad about something.

[Noel]

Totally.

[Ben]

It's a little bit of whataboutism.

[Noel]

I completely agree. And as we know, that did not take off because what about parents who are divorced? Maybe it's a good thing that you can honor them separately. You know, I think maybe if there is a debate or a question, it is the gendered aspect of it. You know what I mean? Maybe, but who cares?

[Ben]

Here's what happened. The Great Depression. That's one of the reasons Father's Day is still a big thing. Because think about it, you're a business, you're an ad company, and you have to somehow get out of the red and into the black ink. So they double down to try to make Father's Day what they thought of as a second Christmas for dudes.

[Noel]

Yeah, because all these cliche ideas of gifts you're supposed to get your dad, those hold true for any gift giving opportunity. Socks in these days. Pipes, you know, like slippers.

[Ben]

Ties.

[Noel]

Ties, yeah. That nobody really even wants. Or that if you're gonna get it, you're gonna get one for yourself. Because these are like things that require you to have a little bit of awareness of like your own personal style. The joke around these gifts is often people are giving you these things and you will never wear them.

[Ben]

Right, right. Like, thank you for this chartreuse and green polka dotted ascot. I'll treasure it forever.

[Matt Frederick]

That actually sounds really nice. Just being frank right here. I really like. If you guys got that for me, I would appreciate it.

[Ben]

Oh, God. Now we have to remember what I described. Okay. Chartreuse and green polka dot.

[Matt Frederick]

I mean, Ben, it's not like we have a, like, you know, recorded version of you saying it or anything.

[Ben]

Oh, that's right. Never mind. Why are we even bothering with long term memory?

[Noel]

Yeah, who needs it?

[Ben]

Yeah, who needs it?

[Noel]

Soon we'll have implants that'll do it all for us.

[Matt Frederick]

Or we can just ask ChatGPT, pair.

[Noel]

It with a nice voice mimicking software and, you know, we're. We're irrelevant at that point.

[Ben]

Oh, come on.

[Noel]

Maybe not irrelevant. We still have to, like, talk at the bot to train it to sound more like us.

[Ben]

Oh, boy. Yeah, I. I mean, you know, you're talking about Ames transforming over time, and that's what happened with Father's Day.

[Noel]

Pay no attention to the man behind the cur.

[Ben]

What do you think? Before we get to the end of Father's Day, I think we'll still be.

[Noel]

Around doing some gallows humor here. I do think we'll be right. I mean, me personally, as a consumer of podcasts and of culture, if I found out that someone had replaced my Folger's crystals with Taster's Choice and didn't tell me, I'd be pretty pissed.

[Ben]

Yeah. And I would also be really suspect. I'd also be sad if I was listening to a show that I was a fan of and I learned that. That the darkest version of that is a legendary host passes away, and then AI Is used to just keep making episodes of them after death.

[Noel]

People are kind of losing their stuff over a headline saying that Paul McCartney, it was a gateway through his support by AI technology being used to create a quote unquote final Beatles song. But if you read below the headline, you realize they actually just used AI As a restoration tool to lift out a vocal that John Lennon made as a demo while playing the piano and singing on, like, a pretty lo fi recording setup. So they cleaned it up, separated it from the piano, and allowed it to be used in a multi track recording capacity. Is the song gonna be any good? I don't know. Irrelevant. But they didn't, like, do a Tupac hologram version of John Lennon's voice. And I frankly think most people who are actual fans of art and culture won't stand for that. You Know, I would like to think that.

[Ben]

I would like to think that as well. And, you know, I mean, full disclosure, folks. Yes. This episode is entirely created and hosted by ChatGPT.

[Noel]

Yep.

[Ben]

Where are we going to go with that? Oh, we'll segue. I did a segue.

[Noel]

Okay.

[Ben]

So things changing. Father's Day got tainted. People would say, you know, it became a money grab.

[Noel]

I think you set it up perfectly, this idea of it being a second Christmas, you know, to buy a lot of these, like, frankly, you know, sharper image type objects, you know, for dads that they probably don't even want. And it's just obligatory kind of gift giving. And that suits the companies more than it does the dads, frankly. And then once that becomes really, really clear, it does start to have a bit of a taint to it, doesn't it?

[Ben]

Yeah. I mean, just. Just send your dad a text and say something that you think is cool about him and make sure it's sincere. You don't have to wait for a specific day to do that. And of course, like all of these holidays, like we learned with Mother's Day, Father's Day is not just celebrated in the US and it's not just celebrated at the same time. People all around the world celebrate something like Father's Day at different periods in the year.

[Noel]

Have you heard of his practice of wearing a red rose if your father's alive and a white one if he's dead?

[Ben]

I have not. And that seems, frankly, invasive.

[Noel]

It does. I mean, cool, let's have a conversation about our dead dads. Is that what I supposedly asked me about my dead dad?

[Ben]

That's what that would say. Yeah. I don't think they thought that one through all the way.

[Noel]

Yeah. I was just not aware of this as a customer, but what about maybe non traditional male role models or frankly, father figures? You know, my dear, dear friend Harry, he's actually coming to visit over Father's Day weekend. It occurred to me, like, he's the closest thing I have to a father, and I'm gonna. He's going to the same brunch that I'm going to. It was just kind of the happenstance that occurred that way, but I'm kind of glad that it did because I do think of him in that same way.

[Ben]

Are you gonna get him a car?

[Noel]

Hell, no.

[Ben]

Are you gonna get him a tie?

[Noel]

No, he doesn't wear a tie. I'll get him a hair tie.

[Ben]

What's the sock situation?

[Noel]

Unclear. But I am gonna take him to brunch and Host him my house and cook him barbecue and spend some good time with him, because he's a true friend and someone that I've always looked up to in that way, you know, without an actual living father. So that's an interesting role, too, is like, what about the uncles? The uncles, the grandfathers, the extended families of the world, you know?

[Ben]

Yes. Yeah. They also get honored on that day sometimes. Because as you go through life, you do run into people who fulfill some of those roles. Right. You may not be able to speak with your biological mother. You may not be on the best terms with her, but you might have a mother figure in your life. And the same goes with parents, with siblings, with all the loved ones you can imagine. So they should be celebrated as well. And I think that's kind of cool. I think that's inclusive. I do think it's interesting that there's a Father's Day thing tied to Roman Catholicism.

[Noel]

Yeah. Celebrated in countries like Spain and Portugal, observed on the feast of St. Joseph. Is St. Joseph the patron saint of fathers. Manly men.

[Ben]

We cut some off air time where we decided to look up the St. Joseph. Why is that Father's Day? St. Joseph the Worker is patron saint of a couple of different things. They always are, Right. Let's see the patron saint of fathers. Nailed it. Got it. He is also working class vibes.

[Noel]

You said the worker.

[Ben]

You know, he is also patron saint of workers. Anybody who's married, anybody who's been exiled.

[Noel]

Oh, is he fifth? Wait a minute. What?

[Ben]

Yeah, that last one was.

[Noel]

Yeah, all right.

[Ben]

Last one was a. There's a Shyamalan for us. The sick and the dying. Cool. And patron saint of holy death.

[Noel]

What's holy death?

[Ben]

You know, what is that a spell.

[Noel]

In, like, Elden ring? That really does sound like.

[Matt Frederick]

Is that like dying with honor if.

[Ben]

You'Re a Klingon, you know, you guys are on to some great things here. We'll have to learn more about it. I am not Catholic. I'm not Christian, so I.

[Noel]

Nor I. I don't know what to say about. I do know what to say about the Taiwanese celebration of Father's Day. Much like our pal who wanted it to be on his birthday, this celebration is, in fact, on my actual birthday, August 8th, the eighth day of the eighth month, which is a fun, you know, little thing with my birthday. It's 8. 8:83. Fun to say out loud, but yeah. I immediately saw this and thought of that guy that wanted to have Father's Day be on his birthday. I'm like, we Are not the same. That was not my idea. But like the cut of whomsever jib in Taiwan decided to hold it on that day. Well, actually sounds. It was because the Mandarin Chinese word for eight sounds like the word papa. Yes. What do you know? You know? I know you know a bit of Mandarin Chinese.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I. I know a little bit. It's Ba.

[Noel]

Ba. Thanks, ChatGPT.

[Ben]

Uh huh. You're the best. Ba. And so the eighth day, eighth month. Ba. Ba.

[Noel]

Got it? You say it twice, it becomes Pa.

[Ben]

Pa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And look here. We have to do it, Noel. It's our first time in the new studio. The man, the myth, the legend himself, our resident rock star, Matt Frederick. He's wearing his sunglasses. Inside, he's got a fresh haircut. Hey, Matt. Matt, you got something to say to the people?

[Noel]

Can you even hear us?

[Ben]

Hi, everybody.

[Noel]

He's so cool. He's so cool. Listen to that guy. The swagger. The swagger in that voice.

[Ben]

We have to figure out a way to get Matt back on.

[Noel]

Well, obviously if he's here, it's easier to accomplish. We can just invite him in, but.

[Ben]

Yeah. Do you want to come in?

[Noel]

Come in for the second episode. We're about to do another one. He's like, nah, dog. I gotta battle this trap.

[Ben]

He's gonna surf.

[Noel]

He's gotta skate.

[Ben]

I think he's gonna surf on a phone. Okay.

[Noel]

Okay.

[Ben]

That guy's too cool for school.

[Noel]

Yeah, really.

[Ben]

And like Taiwan, Thailand has their own father's day. And Thailand is tied to the birthday of. Of a former king whose name I'm going to attempt and mess up.

[Noel]

It's cool.

[Ben]

Okay, let's both try it. So.

[Noel]

Boomiball.

[Ben]

Boomiball. Adul.

[Noel]

Yeah, I was gonna let you know that.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Noel]

Doesn't Boomibal sound like a Mario character? Like, you know, like the giant bomb guy with the crown. I forget his name or it feels.

[Ben]

Like the big sport in like a children's sci fi show. Got to play booma ball.

[Noel]

Yeah, exactly, dude. I discovered a new sport when I was in Philly. There were these like weird curved tables with a. It's like a ping pong table, but they're curved. Okay. And apparently you kick a ball on it and bounce it. It's like ping pong or pickleball, but you play it with your feet. And apparently it is from. From Spain or.

[Ben]

That's cool.

[Noel]

And I'd never seen these tables anywhere. They look kind of like miniature skate ramps. So anybody out there that knows what the hell this thing is Let us know.

[Ben]

And anyone who can help us with pronunciation of names. The Thai royal family, let us know because I have to learn that stuff. I have to go. I don't think I told you. I'm going to. I have to go to Thailand.

[Noel]

I have to go to Thailand. I'm sorry. That's rough. That's awesome. That's really exciting. And Godspeed and. Yeah, just, you know, surely there's a chat GPT out there.

[Ben]

I could just. I could have like a little thing around my neck that's just chat GPT.

[Noel]

Instead of like a slate with some chalk, you know?

[Ben]

Right. But that day in Thailand, December 5th day, is always Father's Day. And I like that.

[Noel]

December 5th. Leave it at that.

[Ben]

He doesn't have to leave it at that. Third or fourth thing, you know, that's. That's too complicated.

[Noel]

Yeah. Same with the Taiwanese deal. 8. 8. Boom.

[Ben]

Remembered it easy.

[Noel]

Is also my birthday.

[Ben]

88 also is good luck.

[Noel]

Hey, cool. No wonder I've been coasting through life low these many years.

[Ben]

Four is bad.

[Noel]

Okay, well, it's divisible by four.

[Ben]

I know, but it's double.

[Noel]

Oh, it's double four. So it's good.

[Ben]

You know, we might have to come back to this. We might have to workshop this.

[Noel]

You might want to leave this one alone. We don't want to uncover any Pandora's Box type situation. Yeah.

[Ben]

But we do want to wish everybody a happy, belated Father's Day. A happy Father's Day to you, Noel. Happy Father's Day to your entire family. Max. Max, you're a cat dad. I think you've described yourself as I.

[Matt Frederick]

Am a cat dad. And also, sometimes I feel like I'm yalls parent, y' all. Like, I'm more of a Parent's Day than a Father's Day to y' all. But I. I get that feeling a lot of times. Especially when it's like, you know, trying to find Noel and get him to the right studio.

[Noel]

Is that why you're always smacking me in the back of the head and calling me a giant disappointment?

[Matt Frederick]

Yes. Unless HR is listening to this episode.

[Ben]

And if they are listening, they don't listen to our show. Also, I'm older than you, bro.

[Matt Frederick]

You both are older than me, but I'm still your father.

[Ben]

All right? Sure. You know what? Big thanks to super producer Max Williams. Yeah.

[Noel]

AKA dad.

[Ben]

Big. Big thanks to Big thanks to Alex Williams, who composed the track Big thanks to our pal Matt, who just has such infectious energy.

[Noel]

He does. He does. He is a walking plague of a human in the positive sense. Positive play, positivity play. Thanks to Christopher Oiotis here in Spirit Eve's Jeff Coates, Jonathan Strickland. I bet you we can get him in here in person, too. You can press to digitate him from one of these. Nice deployment of that word into one of these mic positions.

[Ben]

Yeah. Also, I owe him an email, so that'll be a good time.

[Noel]

Don't sleep on that, man.

[Ben]

I gotta stop. I gotta wake up. I can't keep sleeping on responding to those emails. And we can't keep sleeping on this new studio. Noel, this has been such a fun time. I feel like we betrayed ourselves little because we both, all three of us, max two came in saying, all right, this is gonna be a short one. You know what I mean? We got it. We got. We condensed our research. We're gonna make it a punchy thing about Father's Day.

[Noel]

Still punchy. Not in the last, like, lack of sleep way, but like, in the. Listen to these punchy characters. Have a good time talking about stuff. That's what we like to do. I don't know. I'm excited. It sort of feels like we're opening a new chapter of the show, being here in person with. With each other and all of you. We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Max]

Use of flavored tobacco by teens is a crisis. Tobacco companies use flavors like cotton candy, watermelon ice and cool mint to hook kids like me. They seem harmless, but they aren't. Addiction to nicotine sets us up for a lifetime of health problems. Organ legislators can do something about it. Passing Senate Bill 702A will keep flavored tobacco away from kids. But there are just a few short weeks left for lawmakers to act. Take action to protect kids. Kids like me. @ flavorshookorgankids.org paid for by the Campaign.

[Tom Brokaw]

For Tobacco Free Kids Action Fund, Explore.

[Holly Fry]

The winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tremarchi, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the highwayman suggests men dominated the field. But tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers, known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s. Her legend persists exists nearly 400 years after her death. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Find more crime and cocktails on Criminalia. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jake Hanrahan]

I'm Jake Hanrahan, journalist and documentary filmmaker. Away Days is my new project reporting on countercultures on the fringes of society all across the world. Live from the underground, you'll discover no rules fighting, Japanese street racing, Brazilian favela life, and much more. All real, completely uncensored. Listen to the Away Days podcast, reporting from the underbelly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tom Brokaw]

A body, a suspect and a hundred years of silence. Buried Bones is a podcast about the forgotten crimes history tried to leave behind.

[Ben]

A common misperception about serial predators is that every single time they commit a crime, they commit it the same way. The past is a way of talking if you know what to listen for. New episodes every Wednesday on the Exactly Right Network.

[Tom Brokaw]

Listen to Buried phones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Max]

This is an iHeart podcast.