Did Pirates Really Ruin the US Dream of the Metric System?

Summary

Ridiculous History: Did Pirates Really Ruin the US Dream of the Metric System?

Episode Release Date: May 8, 2025 | Host: Ben Bolan & Noel Brown | Source: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Did Pirates Really Ruin the US Dream of the Metric System?" from the podcast Ridiculous History, hosts Ben Bolan and Noel Brown embark on a fascinating exploration of an unconventional legend: the idea that pirates played a pivotal role in the United States' reluctance to adopt the metric system. Through engaging dialogue, historical anecdotes, and a touch of humor, the duo delves into the complexities of measurement systems and the quirky path the US has taken regarding metrics.

The Metric System: A Brief Overview

Noel Brown initiates the discussion by defining the metric system for listeners unfamiliar with it. "The metric system is humanity's most popular form of measurement. It is a decimal system of weights and measures based on the meter for length and the kilogram for mass," he explains at [05:36]. Ben Bolan adds historical context, linking the metric system to the French Revolution of 1789. "It ushered in a lot of chaos and along with that, it ushered in some pretty solid innovations like the metric system or the guillotine," Ben remarks at [06:11], highlighting the system's origins amidst revolutionary change.

Adoption and Global Spread

The hosts highlight the global acceptance of the metric system, emphasizing its efficiency and scientific grounding. "It's easier to learn because it's a decimal system. It's got predictable patterns," Noel notes at [28:09]. Despite its advantages, the United States remains one of the few countries resistant to full metric adoption, alongside Liberia and Myanmar. The conversation touches upon various legislative efforts to promote metrication in the US, such as the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 and subsequent amendments. However, "Each of these had their own varying degrees of success. Or lack thereof," Ben observes at [32:14], underscoring the persistent challenges in shifting entrenched measurement habits.

The Pirate Legend: A Historical Anecdote

The centerpiece of the episode is the legend that pirates thwarted the US's adoption of the metric system. Ben narrates the story at [11:59], detailing how Thomas Jefferson, frustrated with the disparate measurement systems across the newly formed states, reached out to France for a standardized system. A French scientist named Joseph Dombey was sent to introduce the metric system to the US, carrying with him precise measurement artifacts: a meter rod and a kilogram cylinder.

Unfortunately, Dombey's voyage was derailed when his ship encountered a severe storm and was subsequently captured by British privateers in the Caribbean. "As a result, this new nation...had different regions with different measuring systems," Noel explains at [10:12], setting the stage for the chaotic backdrop against which this event unfolded.

The privateers, exploiting their semi-autonomous status granted by the British government, seized the ship and its valuable cargo. Dombey perished in captivity, and the metric artifacts were dispersed and auctioned off. "If Dombey had not been...waylaid by...pirates, Jefferson would have actually done his razzle dazzle on Congress. And we all may well be full on metric heads today," Ben muses at [15:16].

Debunking the Legend

While the tale of pirates disrupting the metric introduction is captivating, Bolan and Brown approach it with skepticism. Noel remarks at [16:24], "It does have a little bit of an apocryphal vibe to it," suggesting the story leans more towards legend than fact. They acknowledge that while the key events—Dombey's capture and death—are historically accurate, the direct causation linking pirates to the US's metric reluctance is tenuous.

To investigate further, the hosts consult Snopes, a fact-checking resource, and explore additional historical documents. They reveal that Thomas Jefferson was a staunch advocate for uniform measurements long before the metric system emerged in France. His efforts to standardize measurements faced bureaucratic inertia and competing priorities within the young nation. "Jefferson had already published and submitted to Congress a paper on the topic of uniform measurements," Noel states at [17:05], indicating that the resistance to metrication wasn't solely due to external piracy-related disruptions.

Cultural and Political Factors

The discussion shifts to broader cultural and political reasons behind the US's hesitation to adopt the metric system. Bolan points out, "It's apolitical, but it does have a little bit of that viva la France vibe to it," at [09:11], suggesting a subtle resistance rooted in national identity and a preference for traditional measurement systems. They also touch upon the arbitrary nature of customary units like feet and inches, contrasting them with the rationality of the metric system.

Noel adds, "It's an arduous six-year survey...," referring to the meticulous process France undertook to establish the meter. This contrasts sharply with the fragmented and varied measurement practices across the US states in the late 18th century, highlighting administrative and coordination challenges unique to the American context.

Modern Implications and Continued Resistance

Despite several legislative attempts to promote metrication, the US remains largely entrenched in its customary units. "In 1893, all weights and measures used were defined with respect to metric standards," Ben notes at [30:33], yet public adoption lagged significantly. The Metric Conversion Act of 1975, though a pivotal moment, saw minimal impact as "the public ignores once again," Noel observes at [32:24].

The hosts discuss how cultural inertia and perhaps a subtle form of xenophobia—resisting a system perceived as European—contribute to the ongoing resistance. Bolan humorously comments, "It's like our country has a phobia about this," at [01:37], encapsulating the enigmatic aversion Americans have towards embracing metrication fully.

The Role of Consensus and Standardization

A critical point in the discussion is the importance of consensus in adopting standardized systems. "It is a matter of what everyone agrees on," Noel emphasizes at [28:19], highlighting that the metric system thrives on universal agreement, a feature the US has struggled to internalize. Bolan reinforces this by stating, "It's a gram for everyone, of course, except for the United States...," at [32:14], underscoring the system's global embrace versus American reticence.

Humorous Illustrations of Measurement Avoidance

To illustrate the US's creative avoidance of metric units, the hosts reference a Language Nerds article filled with humorous examples. At [37:52], Ben highlights an ad where a toilet flush is described as handling "seven billiard balls in a single flush," instead of using liters. Similarly, Noel mocks descriptions like "one trumpet player" leaving space for ego to denote six feet, emphasizing the absurdity and inconsistency in non-metric measurements.

Final Thoughts and Conclusion

In wrapping up, Bolan and Brown acknowledge that while pirates add a colorful hue to the narrative, the true reasons behind the US's metric hesitation are multifaceted, involving historical inertia, cultural identity, and bureaucratic challenges. "We can conclude that Dombey and piracy's role is somewhat overstated in the legend," Ben states at [22:56], suggesting that broader societal factors are at play.

Noel concurs, "It really seems apocryphal, this notion that... couldn’t they just work it out," at [23:44], indicating that the story simplifies a more complex reality. They conclude that the US's relationship with the metric system is less about direct interference from pirates and more about a cumulative resistance to change entrenched measurement practices.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Noel Brown ([05:36]): "The metric system is humanity's most popular form of measurement. It is a decimal system of weights and measures based on the meter for length and the kilogram for mass."

• Ben Bolan ([06:11]): "It ushered in a lot of chaos and along with that, it ushered in some pretty solid innovations like the metric system or the guillotine."

• Noel Brown ([15:16]): "If Dombey had not been diverted by that storm and waylaid by...pirates, Jefferson would have actually done his razzle dazzle on Congress. And we all may well be full on metric heads today."

• Noel Brown ([28:09]): "It's easier to learn because it's a decimal system. It's got predictable patterns."

• Ben Bolan ([32:14]): "Each of these had their own varying degrees of success. Or lack thereof."

• Noel Brown ([37:05]): "It's a grudge thing. It's very weird."

Conclusion

Ridiculous History masterfully combines humor with historical investigation to debunk a quirky legend, offering listeners a nuanced understanding of the US's complex relationship with the metric system. Through lively banter and thorough research, Ben Bolan and Noel Brown illuminate how myths can sometimes overshadow more intricate truths, all while keeping the narrative engaging and informative. This episode serves as a testament to the podcast's ability to transform seemingly trivial topics into captivating historical explorations.

Transcript

[Ben Bolan]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show, fellow Ridiculous historians. Thank you, as always, so much for tuning in. Let's have a R, matey, for our super producer, Mr. Max Williams.

[Noel Brown]

And R, yeah, for sure.

[Ben Bolan]

You're Noel Brown. I'm Ben Bolan. Noel, what would your pirate name be if you had to choose one?

[Noel Brown]

Ooh, goodness gracious. Put me on the spot, why don't you? I mean, I don't know, like, Long John something, perhaps.

[Ben Bolan]

That's good. I like that.

[Noel Brown]

I like John. Long John Platinum.

[Ben Bolan]

Long time plus. So I would probably get tagged with something like Ben the Red.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. Which.

[Ben Bolan]

Which would be funny because I can't because I'm partially red. Green. Colorblind.

[Noel Brown]

So I'm wearing a red hat currently.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh. Oh, really weird. Okay.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. So elephants on it. It's really cool.

[Ben Bolan]

Thank you. Here in the US we do love nicknames. We also love weird comparisons. It's kind of a known joke in our culture today that we will in general come up with any comparison to avoid the metric system. Right.

[Noel Brown]

Bulls and oranges, as we like to say.

[Ben Bolan]

I saw a story a while back about wherein a newscaster described an alligator as Ariana Grande sized.

[Noel Brown]

Well, yeah, I can see that she's.

[Ben Bolan]

Kind of compact as a unit of measurement.

[Noel Brown]

Are we talking about her ponytail length? That's almost. Yeah, okay, got it.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. But, you know, well, you always see those comparisons where they're, this. You know, this object is about the size of four quarter pounders, or this is this many football fields, when it would be much more rational and sane to just use the metric system. It's almost like our country has a phobia about this. Like, we only talk about the metric system here in general when we're speaking about science, drugs, or firearms.

[Noel Brown]

It's true. I always think of the clip from Pulp Fiction where he goes, they got the metric system over there. Know what a Quarter Pounder is?

[Ben Bolan]

Royale with Cheese Royale. I love his accent in that one, too. So even though it's a laugh and there are loads of examples that we might get to later today, there is a conundrum at play. Like, why didn't the US Catch up with the rest of planet Earth, with the rest of human civilization? Why are we so averse to the metric system? According to one legend, the answer may be pirates.

[Noel Brown]

Ah, yes, of course. We fear change. And pirate. You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

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[Noel Brown]

So what is in fact the metric system for any of you non us residing ridiculous historians? This could well be old beans to you, as you would Mr. Bolan. But it's definitely something that we as Americans really do need to wrap our Head around. The metric system is humanity's most popular form of measurement. It is a decimal system of weights and measures based on the meter for length and the kilo or kilogram for mass.

[Ben Bolan]

And we owe this to the French Revolution.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, it came up in our last episode, didn't it? Yeah.

[Ben Bolan]

Of 1789. It ushered in a lot of chaos and along with that, it ushered in some pretty solid innovations like the metric system or the guillotine.

[Noel Brown]

Ah yes, that old chestnut. Love it. Very, very, very efficient way of murdering a human. And interestingly enough, I think this has come up in recent episodes too. Was still in use much more recently than folks might think.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, and this was terrible for the executioner industry. You know, they were automating people's jobs.

[Noel Brown]

There's team of taking our job. Our friends at Britannica have this to say about it. We love our friends at Britannica. In 1791, the French national assembly directed the French Academy of Sciences to address the chaotic state of French weights and measures. It was decided that the new system would be based on a natural physical unit to ensure immutability. Love that word. The Academy settled on the length of 1/10 millionth of a quadrant of a great circle of Earth. Earth. Might need to unpack this a little bit. Measured around the poles of the meridian passing through Paris, being the center of the universe. An arduous six year survey which eventually yielded a value of 39.37008 inches for the new unit to be called the meter, from Greek metron, meaning measure.

[Ben Bolan]

There we go. Simple enough, right? And things move quickly from there. By 1799, we see the emergence of the meter kilogram of the AR archives, which is a flawless French accent there. These are platinum embodiments, artifacts that show us what a kilogram weighs and how long a meter is. They're the legal standards for all measurement in France. And the motto of the metric system is really cool. It's kind of inspiring. It's for all people, for all time. Nice.

[Noel Brown]

I do like that. It is efficient, it is egalitarian. By 1875, the system went wild, went global international with the signing of the Treaty of the Meter. That's fun. And the establishment of the International Bureau of Weights and Measures.

[Ben Bolan]

Treaty of the Meter and Weights. Okay, so International Bureau of Weights and Measures. Sounds like a weird band I would hear in Athens, Georgia.

[Noel Brown]

Agreed. Yeah, I'm going to cop that. Maybe. Yeah. Treaty of the Meter is their album.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, I think we're onto something here. Look, the metric system is not Perfect. But it is way, way better than the often arbitrary measurement systems of the past. It's apolitical. It's based in science. It establishes uniformity for everyone involved with the metric system. You no longer have to worry about a span being different in one town to another. You know, like, it is a little.

[Noel Brown]

It is apolitical, but it does have a little bit of that viva la France vibe to it. And that Paris was the center of the measurements in question, right?

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, it's just like Greenwich, meantime, you know what I mean?

[Noel Brown]

That's true, but it's not like they brag about it or that it's inherent in the naming conventions. Right, but it's just, you know, that's how they derived that 37 point whatever.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, they gave the Greeks their credit. They gave them a shout out. They didn't call the meter the Paris or anything.

[Noel Brown]

Yes, that's true. That is, everyone, of course, except for the United States, along with Liberia and Myanmar, that's a story for a different day, accepted these conventions. Right?

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. So to answer the question about the US and its fraught relationship with the metric system, we would like to share with you an incredibly popular legend. Travel back with us, fellow ridiculous historians. The US still has that new car smell, even though cars have not been invented yet.

[Noel Brown]

So as a result, this new nation under God, it's a bit of an S H I T S H O W. Every state agreed to be part of this new country. However, there were a lot of details to work out. Different parts of the country, different regions had different identities, different, perhaps opinions, different political leanings. And that also includes something as simple, seemingly apolitical, as how to go about measuring things. So for some reason, Thomas Jefferson was really vexed by this lack of continuity. Right?

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, it was a real bug on his shoulder and, yeah, it was a real crossbow in his butt, you know, at the time of the American Revolution, these 13 colonies more or less used a presently defunct English measuring system. Ounces, pounds, feet, miles. It sounds familiar to the present system in the United States, but it's not quite the same. So if you go to boffins like Keith Martin at the National Institute of Standards and Technology, you'll see that in New York, according to Keith, people are using Dutch measurement systems. Makes sense. But in New England, they were using English systems. The way things were measured literally changed from one state to the next. And as we can all imagine, that's not great for business. Here's the legend. The metric system, as we said, it emerges. In France, 1790, 1. Just a few years later, according to the story, old Tommy Jay, who is now the Secretary of State, hears about this new French system. He's intrigued. He says maybe this will help solve America's measurement. Madness. Our phrase, not his.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, sort of like reefer madness. Not as fun, however. No, reefer madness wasn't fun at all. Never mind. Take that back. That was a really gnarly propaganda war against.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, let's keep it. Listen, more people should know about reefer madness.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, yeah. No, I'm saying keep it. But it wasn't fun.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, it wasn't.

[Noel Brown]

Sounds like it might have been for madness. Everyone's waka, waka, waka, smoking up, having a good time. No, that is not what it was. It was an absolute moral panic that was manufactured in order to. Other minorities.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. The main fear being miscegenation, weirdly enough. So, okay, Tommy J. Writes to his colleagues, his fellow thought leaders over in France, and they hatch a plan. They're going to send a scientist, a botanist, an aristocrat. Not three guys, all the same guy named Joseph Dombey. He's going to cross the Atlantic. He's going to visit Jefferson, and on his person he will have two strange artifacts. A rod that measures exactly a meter and a small copper cylinder. It's got a little handle on the top. It's about three inches tall. It's about three inches wide. It weighs exactly one kilogram. So the idea is that if Dombey can get over to the new United States and talk with Jefferson, then maybe they can get the US on board with this French system. Unfortunately, Dombey's travels do not go well.

[Noel Brown]

No, they don't. His ship passes through a massive storm in the Atlantic that blows the vessel far afield, far south of the mark, into the Caribbean Sea. And the Caribbean was a particularly rough neighborhood populated by roving bands of British privateers, AKA more or less pirates. They weren't technically criminals. They were sort of these mercenaries of the sea. Right. However, they capitalized on their more or less lack of oversight from the British government and sort of had a bit of a carte blanche, a bit of a blank check to do whatever they wanted to whomever they wanted because they controlled the high seas. And they actually did have a bit of cosine for some of these nasty shenanigans. They were, in fact, encouraged by the British to harass, attack, and disrupt any perceived enemy shipping lanes, shipping activities. Right.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. Because let's keep in mind the British are still a little bit irritated that the United States is a Thing.

[Noel Brown]

Not loving it.

[Ben Bolan]

They're not feeling it. They're not vibing. So. So these pirates in all but name, these privateers, they take over the ship that Dombey is on, they imprison him on an island that they control, Montserrat. And they are thinking, okay, this is a pretty fancy guy, right? He's clearly upper class. Let's ransom him. You know what I mean? Let's make a little coin. Unfortunately for the pirates and unfortunately for Dombey, he dies in captivity, he never makes it to the us. Which means that the rod and the cylinder, the meter and the kilogram don't make it there either.

[Noel Brown]

No, they don't. However, the pirates weren't interested in any of these objects that Dombey was carrying, so they were just auctioned off along with the rest of the goods aboard the ship. So the story goes, if Dombey had not been, let's just say, diverted by that storm and waylaid by the hooliganry of these mateys and their crew, he may well have made it to Jefferson. And Jefferson would have actually done his razzle dazzle on Congress. And we all may well be full on metric heads today.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, it's a fascinating tale and I think it would be great for ridiculous history cinema. It's widely cited as a fact in any number of reputable US news sources. So not just more tabloidy stuff like the New York Post, sorry guys, that's true. But also things like the Washington Post. The question is, is this story the. As our friend Lauren would say, is this the actual facts explanation for the US's metric system phobia? Are pirates genuinely the reason America doesn't mess with the metric system today?

[Noel Brown]

It does have a little bit of an apocryphal vibe to it, I'm not gonna lie.

[Ben Bolan]

Right, right.

[Noel Brown]

Feels like a legend kind of. You know what I mean, the stuff of legend. Absolutely, if metric system needs one.

[Ben Bolan]

Right? We do know it is true that Dombey's ship was captured. Dombey was a real person and at the time he was carrying these new measurement artifacts. We know that he did die in captivity. There are letters informing Jefferson about it. But the details and context of the time show us to your point, Noel. The story is not as cut and dried as we would like to bust the myths here. We're gonna get some help from our friends at Snopes.

[Noel Brown]

So Jefferson wasn't just intrigued by this new French system. He was already, as you would say, Ben, 10 toes down with it on fixing America's measurement issue. So by 1790 before the French system came into effect, Jefferson had already published and submitted to Congress a paper on the topic of uniform measurements. And the report, however, didn't really make it to the top of the stack. Let's just say it kind of got sidelined a bit and as they call it in Hollywood, turnaround, Limbo.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, it languished in limbo, pictured this way. So he pitched two different ideas for a uniform measurement system. And the second one, the one that he really liked, was base 10 thing. It was decimal. It was like the French system, like the metric system. Today, everybody that he talked to about this, everybody, they pitched on it, kind of said, oh, yeah, no, good point, Tom. We gotta. We gotta think about that one. Right? We're gonna put this right here on the fridge with the other drawings.

[Noel Brown]

We'll give you a gold star for now, give you a little bit of a participation award.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. After they gave his attaboys his backpacks, everybody went on to do other things. Granted, at this point in history of the United States, there was still a lot of other stuff they needed to do for sure.

[Noel Brown]

Early days, there's lots to be done. This could sort of be seen as certainly not priority number one by the folks in charge. It just happens to be a pet concern of Mr. Jefferson, as we mentioned. Right.

[Ben Bolan]

Like, is it his passion project? Does he leave the room and people all roll their eyes?

[Noel Brown]

Jefferson again, going on about the metric system.

[Ben Bolan]

What does that guy do? Isn't he supposed to be Secretary of State?

[Noel Brown]

You guys, we need to rethink this whole situation a bit.

[Ben Bolan]

It's like Elon Musk in video games. You know what? I.

[Noel Brown]

Man, don't even. He's gonna come for you, Ben. He's gonna come for you.

[Ben Bolan]

I'll have to try to do my best to doge it.

[Noel Brown]

Yes. Doge and weave.

[Ben Bolan]

Doja weave. There we go.

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[Ben Bolan]

So the US didn't make any real progress toward unified measurement until decades later. The 1820s.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. After continuous prompting and poking and prodding from Thomas Jefferson. Like, just literally just being like, hey, guys, I'm over here. Look at me. Remember me?

[Ben Bolan]

We need to work this out.

[Noel Brown]

This is a big deal.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. It's. So we can conclude it is highly likely. We can't prove this, but we can conclude that Dombey and piracy, their role is somewhat overstated in the legend. It's very likely that even if Dombey arrived safely with his tchotchkes in tow, the stalemate over measurements would have persisted. Because it wasn't that people couldn't think of a thing like the metric system. It was that no one really cared.

[Noel Brown]

Right. Except Tommy J. Who cared a lot. And can we also just say that, like, it really seems apocryphal, this notion that, you know, the items were the deal breaker, the staff and the whatever. You know what I mean? Like, couldn't they just. If it was really that important to them, they could have found something else, you know?

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Noel Brown]

They could have worked it out.

[Ben Bolan]

Right. They could have figured it out. Yeah. And so now we have to move to speaking the artifacts. And let's quote that question that you and I often get at the airport. What happened to our kilo?

[Noel Brown]

We do. It's weird. I don't know why people think that we're some sort of authority on this. It is our burden to bear, and it is a heavy one. But God knows what system we should use to weigh it.

[Ben Bolan]

Right? Right. We certainly don't. Maybe God does. No comment, FBI. Ultimately, though, we do know a little bit about these artifacts. That lost kilogram cylinder made it to America eventually in the hands of an American land surveyor named Andrew Ellicott. And then it was passed down as a relic in the Ellicott family all the way up to 1952. And this is when a scion of the Ellicott family, Andrew Ellicott Douglas, he realizes what they have a piece of history. He's an astronomer, and he doesn't try to make a buck off this or anything. He gives it to the agency that later becomes the National Institute of Standards and Technology, or nist. Nist. I love it. Yeah.

[Noel Brown]

Can we just take a quick moment to just talk about just the idea of standardization? Like, the. What is so much less important in this, like, this whole, you know, discussion? Like, what is the object? Because at the end of the day, it's just about deciding and agreeing what the number is and what we use so it's like whether it's this rod and this, you know, whatever, pendant or whatever the crappy, these objects, it just seems kind of beside the point and sort of hung up on the wrong details. But I guess therein lies the conundrum of history and the politicization of seemingly benign things, right?

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, exactly. And we also know, I think that point about consensus is really key here. We also know that the kilogram has been redefined over the decades. The version that Dombey was carrying, that copper cylinder with the cute little handle, it was almost certainly not the same mass as what we consider the modern kilogram, which is a platinum iridium thing still stored in France. And that's what all kilograms and gram derivatives are based off of.

[Noel Brown]

Well, France does to this day kind of hold a lot of prominence in the fields of science and education, like the Sorbonne and like certain institutions there. I mean, they are still held up very high and revered, you know, across the world. Although it does seem that to some degree the US still has sort of a weird little beef with France in terms of just attitude. You know, there's often a little bit of dismissiveness when you have certain folks talking about the French.

[Ben Bolan]

I love French.

[Noel Brown]

I love the French. I love all of the history that we're talking about here. I think we're on the same page there. You know what I mean though? Isn't it an odd little kind of bit of. Not bigotry exactly, but sort of a little bit of an attitude?

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, kind of a jocular animosity.

[Noel Brown]

It's a good way of putting it.

[Ben Bolan]

It goes both ways too, you know, every time jocular. That's a perfect ex. Yeah. Every time I'm hanging out in France, I've got some French national friends in Amsterdam get a little ribbing for being from the States. But I like to think it's well intentioned. And yeah, France is just amazing. The food is better. That stereotype is true. But like you're saying, the French, American animosity aside, the United States still hasn't gone fully metric. You can see legally required metric conversions on all kinds of things, right? Like the speedometer of your vehicle, the ingredient list or serving size list, and things you buy on the grocery store. But most people are going to be talking in terms of inches, feet, ounces, pounds.

[Noel Brown]

You know, could we take a minute and just talk a little bit about why metric is better than what you just mentioned, Ben, what we use is it because of the sort of basis in science, the basis in physical understandable objects, and feet and inches seems a little bit less so and maybe a bit more arbitrary.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, I think you've kind of answered that. Right. It's easier to learn because it's a decimal system. It's got predictable.

[Noel Brown]

That's a big gradation.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. It doesn't have some of the historical baggage that other measurement systems have, like feet, miles, yards. Those are just weird. Right. And I think the biggest point now too is regardless of which system a person may prefer individually, your point about consensus holds. It is a matter of what everyone agrees on. And the rest of the world said, tally ho, bully for the metric system. We've all finally agreed on at least this one thing. And the US said, nah, banana for scale.

[Noel Brown]

Whereas over here it's like the question, how long is a yard? Oh, it's the length of one yardstick.

[Ben Bolan]

Right, right, right.

[Noel Brown]

Remember a yardstick? That was very much a staple of elementary school. I don't know why I'm thinking about the yardstick now. It doesn't really come up much anymore. Can you even still buy yardsticks? Is that a thing?

[Ben Bolan]

Okay, yeah, you could buy them. It's just I think they're less frequently seen in households today.

[Noel Brown]

That makes sense.

[Ben Bolan]

You know, it's not quite as antiquated as the rotary telephone, but. But it's getting there, you know what I mean? If you have a yardstick, the yardstick is probably old and you probably got it from one of your relatives.

[Noel Brown]

Now that being said, if we're talking about the uk, they have a quite different use of the term yards. It is a measurement of ale. A quite massive boot sized glass of ale. A yard.

[Ben Bolan]

A yard of ale. So we love nerding out on this kind of stuff. I think it's fair to say that we are fans of the metric system, but we are not measurement experts ourselves. So we were all. Noel, Max and I were all surprised to learn that the US has often had brushes with metric modernity. The mission of Tommy Jay continues apace. In 1866, Congress did authorize the use of the metric system. And furthermore, they supplied every state with a set of standard metric weights and measures. That every state apparently just ignored.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, completely. In 1875, the United States signed the Convention du Maitre establishing. That is a very interesting name for a United States treaty establishing an international body to maintain metric standards. In 1893, however, all weights and measures used were defined with respect to metric standards. So a pound is officially defined as 0.45359237 kilograms. Why?

[Ben Bolan]

Why?

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, exactly. And one yard is 0.9144 meters again.

[Ben Bolan]

Come on. You know what I mean. I feel like Thomas Jefferson.

[Noel Brown]

Difficult.

[Ben Bolan]

Come on. So then There is in 1975, and there's some great NPR pieces about this as well. In 1975, there's the metric Conversion Act. And the Metric Conversion act is the one that is going to get us on the right path. They say, look, per this act, the US Is going to use the metric system of measurement as our preferred system of weights and measures for all US Trade and commerce. Cool. Dandy. Jolly good.

[Noel Brown]

The public ignores once again. The act was later amended by the Omnibus Foreign Trade and Competitiveness Act. That's a mouthful of 1988, the Savings in Construction act of 1996, and the Department of Energy High End Computing Revitalization act of 2004, which were all aimed at at pushing the use of the metric system. However, each of these had their own varying degrees of success. Or lack thereof.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, by which we mean no success.

[Noel Brown]

Exactly.

[Ben Bolan]

It's rough. It's still, you know, it's hold my yard of beer banana for scale all the livelong day here in the United States.

[Alex Williams]

Introducing Instagram Teen accounts. A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on.

[Noel Brown]

All right, buckle up. Good job.

[Alex Williams]

New Instagram teen accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact your teen and the content they can see.

[Holly Fry]

It's true that some things change as we get older. But if you're a woman over 40 and you're dealing with insomnia, brain fog, moodiness and weight gain, you don't have to accept it as just another part of aging. And with MIDI Health, you can get help and stop pushing through it alone. The experts at MITI understand that all these symptoms can be connected to the hormonal changes that happen around menopause. And miti can help you feel more like yourself again. Many healthcare providers aren't trained to treat or even recognize menopause symptoms. MITI clinicians are menopause experts. They're dedicated to providing safe, effective, FDA approved solutions for dozens of hormonal symptoms, not just hot flashes. Most importantly, they're covered by insurance. 91% of MITI patients get relief from symptoms within just two months. You deserve to feel great. Book your virtual visit today@join midi.com that's joinmin.com have you ever wished for a.

[Emily Tish Sussman]

Change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job or a place or a relationship? Join me Emily Tish Sussman over on she Pivots, where I explore the inspiring pivots of women. Dig deeper into the personal reasons behind them and leave you with the inspiration you need to make your next pivot. In honor of Mother's Day, we have some very special guests. I'm Elaine Welteroth.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Caitlin Murray.

[Emily Tish Sussman]

Both women pivoted out of their careers after having their kids, proving that motherhood is just another chapter in our journey, not the end. It's kind of like, will you have more babies? Yes. Will I always be me? Yeah. And will I continue growing? Yes.

[Holly Fry]

Because I was really in the trenches and I knew my worth and my value as a mom.

[Emily Tish Sussman]

Come on over to hear their full stories. You can listen to she pivots on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Tremarki]

Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tremarchi, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers, known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s. Her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Hear the story of the gentleman robbery, the romantic darling of the ladies, and a tale about a wager over a sack of potatoes. But you'll have to tune in to learn who won that one. Some highwaymen were well mannered or faked it. People were concerned about the romanticism of robbers, but most were just thugs. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Call them robbers or bandits. Some are legendary figures. Listen to stories about historical crimes on Criminalia now, plus the cocktails and mocktails inspired by each. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Bolan]

We're not defending British privateers. We're not saying pirates are super funkadelic or whatever, but they're objectively pretty cool. The image of them is cool.

[Noel Brown]

They did some horrific atrocities.

[Ben Bolan]

Yes. And they were dirty. But they also had systems of democracy that were streets ahead of the government or the governance you would see in official military vessels.

[Noel Brown]

What was that island that they had in the Caribbean? I want to say we did an episode, Tortuga. Tortuga, where it had, like, an excellent system of government that seemed to function quite well. Ben, this is your research brief, is it not?

[Ben Bolan]

This is. Yeah, yeah.

[Noel Brown]

Very, very well done. And you end with or you leave us with. You keep making this reference to banana for scale. Let's Go to this language Nerds site article that you found, which is a series of fun kind of examples that show Americans will measure with anything but the metric system.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, one of my favorites. And you can find all kinds of lists like this. Now that we've redeemed pirates, it's not their fault that the US is not on board with the metric system.

[Noel Brown]

But they, they were naughty boys.

[Ben Bolan]

They were naughty. They did capture and probably kill that guy. But we wanted to spend just a little time palling about having some fun with this weird notion that here in America we will use any kind of made up measurement system other than the metric system.

[Noel Brown]

It's a grudge thing. It's very weird. I don't think we fully unpacked that aspect. I think we hinted at it, but I think it's still TBD as to where the long standing beef is. To your point about the pirates, we sort of debunked that a little bit. But yet it continues this avoidance, this absolute rejection, it would seem culturally of the metric system. I think maybe the people think it's too European.

[Ben Bolan]

Maybe that's it. I bet you there's some xenophobia wrapped up. There's probably just the inertia as well.

[Noel Brown]

Critical mass is a hell of a drug. Yes.

[Ben Bolan]

Right. So one of my favorite examples in this language Nerds collection is a picture of a toilet bowl. There's a real advertisement. And the picture of the commode. You'll see a sign advertising this is real. It's accommodations. Yeah, it says flushes seven billiard balls in a single flush. Why can't you just say what it is in the metric system?

[Noel Brown]

Billiard ball sized poops.

[Ben Bolan]

You know what? Maybe that's it. Those are some heavy poops.

[Noel Brown]

Seriously, man. And can we also just take a moment to talk about just like the idea of the foot? Like it's sort of the length of an average foot kind of human foot, but also not. It's just, I don't know, using that term has always thrown me because one of these images you found in this article is no measuring tape. No problem. Your body will do approximately 6ft 2 inches long. And once again, a foot of a human is approximately the length of a foot. The measurement. Right.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. It's weird too because you know, that opens the door for like we were saying, arbitrary systems of measurement where, where let's say the king says we're measuring in feet and the foot is based on my foot. And then the king dies. Right? We got a new king size, new king, new Foot. New King do foot. Another one. A sinkhole roughly the size of six to seven washing machines.

[Noel Brown]

Or two to three Honda Odysseys.

[Ben Bolan]

Two to three Honda Odysseys. And then things like, oh, this is the smallest mammal. The bumblebee. Bad, it weighs less than one coin.

[Noel Brown]

What coin? What denomination? What are you talking about? America? God, get off your high horse. We've got shop with space. Give everyone four hangers of distance. I wish I had that extra closet space. I think this is a callback to maybe Covid times, A clever use of COVID social distancing stickers, some of which you still see in, like, subway stations and train stations, etc. Etc. But using it as like an advertisement in hashtag in this together. Shop with space. And these hangers, though, I gotta say, Ben, are weirdly misshapen. These seem like absurdly squashed and long hangers.

[Ben Bolan]

That's true. It feels like somebody got lazy in Photoshop just a little bit. But they're doing their best and they helpfully provide the real explanation of six feet. But. But they don't say the meters at all. They just have these four, as you said, deformed coat hangers. Give everyone four deformed coat hangers of distance.

[Noel Brown]

Got a great tweet from San Miguel Sheriff here describing a traffic. What do you call it? Obstruction? Large boulder the size of a small boulder.

[Ben Bolan]

What?

[Noel Brown]

You could have at least had a large boulder the size of several small boulders. Still absurd, but at least a little better. Is it not Just. Just a small boulder at this point is completely blocking eastbound lane Highway 145. What the heck? San Miguel Sheriff.

[Ben Bolan]

Adult deer are as tall as a bicycle. They weigh as much as 800 hamburgers.

[Noel Brown]

That's really helpful. And by that I mean not helpful at all.

[Ben Bolan]

Ah, yes, Yeah, I agree. And then we've got this helpful quote, unquote, helpful explanation, explaining to the average person in the US how long six.

[Noel Brown]

Feet is, which is already like the meta. Ness of this. Because 6ft is already absurd, the concept. Right. So now let's just measure it with other absurd things. We got roughly three clarinets left.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, okay. Oh, one trombone if the slide is.

[Noel Brown]

Extended, which is a very important caveat. One flagpole. But come on now, that doesn't even make sense. What kind of flagpole? One in a school yard has way longer than 6ft. Taller than 6ft. What are we talking, like a color guard flagpole? Very unclear. Or one marimba.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, of course, marimba. The marimba system.

[Noel Brown]

And marimba's length. Yes. Okay.

[Ben Bolan]

And Then, of course, three trumpets. And then they've got one joke that might give you a chuckle. They say six feet is also the distance. One trumpet player leaving room for ego.

[Noel Brown]

That's funny. Yeah. Trumpet players notoriously into themselves. I don't know about this. I don't know, man. Miles Davis was. That's for sure.

[Ben Bolan]

Sure. Yeah. But also. So any musician at that level, no matter what they play, is going to be like that. Right.

[Noel Brown]

I've met some particularly cocky marimba players in my day. Really? Oh, yeah.

[Ben Bolan]

There's just something snooty about them. The worst. I will say. Okay, this is not a personality stereotype, but I will say. And you spent time in Nashville, too. There is an aura about pedal steel players because it's.

[Noel Brown]

They've got a vibe.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah.

[Noel Brown]

Especially the old timers.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. They got a specific instrument that can be difficult to learn. And when you see Nashville is rife with beautiful music. When you see a band getting together to play in Nashville, often the pedal steel guy kind of shows up at the last minute, does his bit and ghosts because he's going to play for another band.

[Noel Brown]

Very true. It's a very hot commodity, the pedal steel player, because to your point, Ben, it's not something that you're at. Average musician can just pick up from scratch. It definitely requires a certain set of skills. And why don't for this last one, bring it home to a flyer from our very own Explore Georgia Organization. He's, you know, encouraging, you know, finding the outdoors here in the beautiful state of Georgia, which is, in fact, quite beautiful this time of year. Let's explore Georgia safely once again. Social distancing. Let's stay six feet apart, AKA one deer's length.

[Ben Bolan]

Apart, one deer's length.

[Noel Brown]

Fun fact. The white tailed deer is the official mammal of the state of Georgia.

[Ben Bolan]

Beautiful. I've got to shout out one more, please. It's from our friends of Wisconsin. In 10 years at the state of Wisconsin, yes, for 10 years, Wisconsin has recycled 325 million pounds of electronics. That's the combined weight of the Eiffel Tower, ten blue whales, the Brooklyn Bridge and five statues of liberty. They could have just used kilograms.

[Noel Brown]

They could have just said a ton. And if they wanted to be metric about it, they could have said a metric ton.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, yeah. One metric ton is a thousand kilograms. Got it.

[Noel Brown]

Makes sense. Whole numbers, guys, whole numbers.

[Ben Bolan]

And everybody else just calls it a ton. But here in the US we call it a metric because usa.

[Noel Brown]

It's weird, man. Yeah. Still can't quite wrap my head around it, but maybe it's not for us to understand. But Ben, thank you for this incredible research on this topic. I think we shed a lot of light on it and as much as we made it even murkier, big, big.

[Ben Bolan]

Thanks of course to Our super producer Mr. Max Williams, his biological bro Alex Williams, who composed this track, It's True.

[Noel Brown]

Christopher Raciotes and Eve Jeffcoat here in Spirit Jonathan Str Strickland the Quizzter AJ Bahamas Jacobs the Puzzler Rachel Big Spinach.

[Ben Bolan]

Lance the Rude Dudes at Ridiculous Crime. We shouted out the Quister just a second ago. I guess we'll do it one more time.

[Noel Brown]

May as well.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, okay, shout out.

[Noel Brown]

Hopefully we don't summon him.

[Ben Bolan]

Strickland oh yeah, we can't say it three times. That's it. End the show.

[Noel Brown]

Beetlejuice rules.

[Ben Bolan]

End the show. End the show.

[Noel Brown]

We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Holly Fry]

It's true that some things change as we get older. But if you're a woman over 40 and you're dealing with insomnia, brain fog, moodiness and weight gain, you don't have to accept it as just another part of aging. And with MIDI health, you can get help and stop pushing through it alone. The experts at MITI understand that all these symptoms can be connected to the hormonal changes that happen around menopause, and MITI can help you feel more like yourself again. Many healthcare providers aren't trained to treat or even recognize menopause symptoms. MIDI clinicians are menopause experts. They're dedicated to providing safe, effective, FDA approved solutions for dozens of hormonal symptoms, not just hot flashes. Most importantly, they're covered by insurance. 91% of MITI patients get relief from symptoms within just two months. You deserve to feel great. Book your virtual visit [e-mail] that's joinmidi.com.

[Maria Tremarki]

Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tremarki, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the Highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers, known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s. Her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Find more crime and cocktails on Criminalia. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Podcast Podcasts.

[Emily Tish Sussman]

A crime makes headlines. People talk about it for a few days, then it disappears. But for the people left behind, their story is just beginning.

[Noel Brown]

But at night, we hear the garage opening and my son hears it. We freak out. Honestly, I didn't tell my son this, but I felt that was it.

[Emily Tish Sussman]

From the exactly right network, this is the Knife. Real stories of crime's ripple effects told by those who lived them. New episodes every Thursday. Listen to the knife on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We love learning about this extraordinary universe.

[Noel Brown]

And we love sharing what we've learned.

[Emily Tish Sussman]

And on our podcast, Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe, that's what we're gonna do.

[Noel Brown]

I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and I think our universe is absolutely extraordinary.

[Emily Tish Sussman]

I'm Kelly Wienersmith. I study parasites and there's just endless things about this universe that I find and fascinating.

[Noel Brown]

Basically, we're both nerds.

[Emily Tish Sussman]

Each Tuesday and Thursday, we take an hour long dive into some science topic.

[Noel Brown]

Learn all about our amazing and beautiful universe on Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe. Every Tuesday and Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, you're listening to an iHeart podcast.