First Ladies Who Weren't Wives, Part Two, Part One: James "The Bachelor" Buchanan

Summary

Ridiculous History Podcast Summary
Episode: "First Ladies Who Weren't Wives, Part Two, Part One: James 'The Bachelor' Buchanan"
Release Date: July 22, 2025
Hosts: Ben Bullen and Noel Brown | Producer: Max Williams

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Introduction

In this episode of Ridiculous History, Ben Bullen and Noel Brown delve into the intriguing and often overlooked story of James Buchanan, the 15th President of the United States, who remains the nation's only lifelong bachelor. The hosts explore Buchanan's personal life, his close relationship with William Rufus King, and the societal implications of his bachelorhood, all while shedding light on Harriet Lane, who assumed the role of First Lady in his administration.

Buchanan's Presidential Aspirations and Personal Life

Ben Bullen sets the stage by recounting Buchanan's rise in politics and the controversies that surrounded him in the mid-19th century. "James Buchanan, up to now, even unto 2025, [is] our nation's only bachelor president," he states (06:22).

Noel Brown adds depth by discussing the term "bachelor" of the era, noting its often pejorative connotation when referring to a man's sexuality. "The term 'lifelong bachelor' often had a little bit of stank on it," he explains (08:56).

The Relationship Between Buchanan and William Rufus King

The episode delves into the close bond between Buchanan and William Rufus King of Alabama. Their relationship, characterized by shared political ambitions and personal companionship, has fueled historical speculation about Buchanan's sexuality. Ben Bullen mentions, "Historians often will cite James Buchanan as, quote, the nation's most likely first gay president" (06:22).

The hosts discuss the nature of their companionship, highlighting that Buchanan and King lived together in a communal boarding house known as the "Bachelor's Mess." Initially housing multiple unmarried congressmen, the boarding house's population dwindled over time, intensifying societal scrutiny of Buchanan and King's relationship.

The Role of Harriet Lane as First Lady

With Buchanan being a bachelor, his niece, Harriet Lane, stepped into the role of First Lady. Ben Bullen emphasizes her significant impact: "Harriet Lane became a celebrity for all intents and purposes... she was a trendsetter, beloved by the public" (33:09).

Noel Brown draws parallels between Harriet Lane and later iconic First Ladies like Jackie Kennedy, noting Lane's influence on fashion and public perception. "Women across the country would copy the dresses and the gowns she was wearing, like her inauguration gown," Noel remarks (33:51).

Harriet Lane's philanthropic efforts are also highlighted. She was actively involved in improving conditions for Native American reservations and contributed to the establishment of a children's clinic at Johns Hopkins Hospital, showcasing her dedication to social causes.

Societal Context and Speculation About Buchanan's Sexuality

The hosts explore the societal norms and pressures of the 19th century, which likely influenced the nature of Buchanan and King's relationship. Noel Brown suggests that their companionship could have been a "marriage of convenience," a common arrangement for maintaining social appearances: "In the opera world... there were a lot of these marriages of convenience" (21:10).

Ben Bullen adds context about Harriet Lane's guardianship and her role in Buchanan's life, reinforcing the idea that personal relationships were often complex and multifaceted during this period.

Buchanan's Presidency and Legacy

Transitioning from personal life to political legacy, Max Williams and Noel Brown discuss Buchanan's place among the least effective U.S. presidents. "He is amongst its Andrew Johnson, James Buchanan, and Franklin Pierce, who are considered the three worst," Max comments (37:26).

The hosts critique Buchanan's inability to address the growing tensions leading to the Civil War, highlighting his administrative shortcomings and their impact on American history.

Harriet Lane's Lasting Impact

Despite Buchanan's controversial presidency, Harriet Lane's legacy as First Lady remains positive. Ben Bullen notes, "She was the first lady of the National Collection of Fine Arts," attributing significant contributions to the Smithsonian and Johns Hopkins Hospital (35:49).

Harriet Lane's dedication to the arts and healthcare established a foundation for future First Ladies to engage in philanthropic endeavors, cementing her role as a beloved and influential figure.

Conclusion

In wrapping up the episode, Ben Bullen and Noel Brown reflect on the complexities of James Buchanan's personal life and his presidential legacy. They acknowledge Harriet Lane's pivotal role in shaping the role of the First Lady, setting a precedent for future administrations.

Ben Bullen concludes, "While Buchanan may be remembered as one of the least effective presidents, Harriet Lane's contributions to society and the arts have left a lasting positive legacy," encapsulating the episode's exploration of personal relationships and historical impact (36:36).

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Notable Quotes

• Ben Bullen [06:22]: "James Buchanan, up to now, even unto 2025, [is] our nation's only bachelor president."

• Noel Brown [08:56]: "The term 'lifelong bachelor' often had a little bit of stank on it."

• Ben Bullen [33:09]: "Harriet Lane became a celebrity for all intents and purposes... she was a trendsetter, beloved by the public."

• Noel Brown [21:10]: "In the opera world... there were a lot of these marriages of convenience."

• Max Williams [37:26]: "He is amongst its Andrew Johnson, James Buchanan, and Franklin Pierce, who are considered the three worst."

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Additional Notes

This episode is the first part of a two-part series on "First Ladies Who Weren't Wives." Future episodes will continue to explore unique and unconventional First Ladies throughout American history.

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For more engaging historical tales, subscribe to Ridiculous History on your favorite podcast platform.

Transcript

[Ben Bullen]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you as always, so much for tuning. Tuning in. Let's hear it for our returning super producer, Max the Tatted Madman Williams.

[Max Williams]

Welcome back.

[Ben Bullen]

Welcome back.

[Noel Brown]

Welcome.

[Max Williams]

Well, I mean, we were chatting and stuff. I mean, surprise to everyone. You know, we are, we are actually real life friends, the four, the three of us.

[Noel Brown]

How's Canada?

[Max Williams]

The four of us. But no, that was Vancouver.

[Noel Brown]

It was a Canada. It was Canada, right? Yeah.

[Max Williams]

I was in Portland and I was in Canada.

[Noel Brown]

Portland's basically Canada. You know, basically.

[Max Williams]

Funny thing, Portland, Oregon is the only place in this world where you say Vancouver and they think of a different place than Vancouver.

[Ben Bullen]

Exactly.

[Max Williams]

Because it's like, there's like a suburb basically of it. There's this city across the river in Washington called Vancouver. But it was great. It was actually kind of hot. But the thing about it is hot coover.

[Noel Brown]

So they call it. They call it hot coover? No, they don't call it that.

[Ben Bullen]

Hot coover is a euphemism for a different.

[Max Williams]

Starts cooling off and it's like, wow, okay, this is different. This is in like Atlanta where it's like 80 plus degrees at like midnight.

[Ben Bullen]

I love the Pacific Northwest.

[Noel Brown]

Hey, interesting, interesting story. Maybe not interesting, but appropriate. My kid and their mom are leaving for Portland today, so I might hit you up offline for some wrecks.

[Max Williams]

Oh, yeah, there's a great. I think it's still around. Pinball museum is what it's called, but it's basically arcade.

[Ben Bullen]

I loved it.

[Max Williams]

It's like, it's like 20 play all day. But yeah, as you mentioned, I had, I got two tattoos done, my first two. And of course I'm already playing the third, fourth, fifth and sixth already.

[Noel Brown]

Same brother. I'm getting inky. I. I've got the bug. It's a lot of fun.

[Max Williams]

I got the bug too. But no, I mentioned this offline, but when I was talking to Ben earlier today, I mentioned him, he was just said he was going to be around, you know, some more French themed things. I said, watch out for the mimes.

[Noel Brown]

They're evil.

[Max Williams]

Like, you know. Yeah, but if.

[Noel Brown]

But a lot of hp, you got to break.

[Max Williams]

You have to break them first. And once you break them, you can actually do real damage.

[Noel Brown]

Actually, their attacks are not that hard to dodge once you get the hang of them because they only do like, I think two. So we're talking about Clarence Garrett, not actual French mimes, but they're scary too.

[Ben Bullen]

Expedition 33 and speaking of the opposite of mimes, this is an audio podcast that will tell you who we are. I am Ben Bullen. You have heard our returning super producer, Mr. Max Williams and our ever present, ever awesome co host, the one and only Mr. Noel Brown.

[Noel Brown]

I'm nothing if not ever present. Thank you Ben. I appreciate that. It's good to be back.

[Ben Bullen]

I'm trying to figure out how to say ever present. Yeah, well, English. It's a funny language. It's something. This is a weird segue, Noel. English is one of those languages that is absolutely riddled with legacy words and syntax, even when they don't make the most sense. And we could argue in part two of First Ladies who Weren't that the position of first lady, however described, is itself kind of like a legacy thing of monarchy.

[Noel Brown]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Noel Brown]

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[Ben Bullen]

It is an official position, but it's a thing that always assumes the President of the United States will have something like a spouse. And as our research associate Jeff Factor G showed us in our first episode here, that's not always the case. Sometimes history has put some square pegs into the round hole of tradition. Definitely that sounded dirty.

[Noel Brown]

Definitely pegs and holes going on. Yeah, no, for sure. And also, I mean, I just think the idea of the President as being the first anything is fascinating because it sort of implies he's number one. He's the best one we got. And everything associated with him is also the first whatever that thing. Remember the movie First Kid? That was like a Nickelodeon type kids movie from the 90s. It wasn't Nickelodeon, but it was of that ilk genre. That's right. But today we are indeed doing a continuation of the first part of the First Ladies who Weren't Wives. This part includes the bachelors, the reluctant wives who passed on their duties, and much, much more, Jeff points out at the top, and we'd like to join him in addressing that. This episode contains some discussion of some arguable perspectives of the first gay President, as well as the first gay First Lady. I think that one is a little more substantiated. The first lady one.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, yeah. And let's dive into this. That's an excellent note for us to begin with. And folks, let's also note this may be a two part Series A two, Part two. Yeah, yeah. Just like when we did Idiomatic for the People or historical flexes, I think. All right, let's start with. Let's get to the chicken right away. Let's start with the one that is going to be interesting to a lot of history buffs in the audience, especially fellow presidential history buffs like ourselves, the lifelong. The lifelong presidential bachelor and his first lady. All right. Yeah. This one is as much about the popularity of Harriet Lane, who we'll meet in a moment, as much as it is about the fact that she was only the first lady because she was not the spouse of President James Buchanan, but she was the niece of. Of Buchanan. And historians, just to get the headline out here, folks, historians often will cite James Buchanan as, quote, the nation's most likely first gay president.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, that term bachelor that you whoosh whooshed around in these days was often used as a pejorative for being gay. Not in a positive way. It was not something that was talked about. But if you threw around the term lifelong bachelor, that often had a little bit of stank on it, depending on who was throwing it around. And Ben, remind me, I believe in our last episode on first ladies who weren't wives, we also had a player who was a relative who got that designation after the fact.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, talk about a player. Old Andrew. Two first ladies, Jackson, There's a bit of a sad story there because as we recall from our first episode, Andrew Jackson had to take his niece on as the first lady because his actual facts, as Lauren would say spouse passed away. So there was already a niece who became a first lady. In terms of practice.

[Noel Brown]

Very similar story here, although we also have potential for what might be considered the first man. But there was just no space culturally for that to even be part of.

[Ben Bullen]

The conversation for first gentleman.

[Noel Brown]

Indeed. I like that. Definitely think it's important to talk about this historical anomaly, even though it was something that we mentioned before. Very rare for this sort of passing of the torch to a relative to become the nature of a first lady. So this puts it into a much more interesting and revelatory perspective than their wife died or what have you. So let's get right into it.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah. All right, folks, travel back with us. It's the beginning of 1844. There's a guy named James Buchanan. He's a real up and comer in the halls of political power, but his presidential aspirations are about to go awry. At this point. He has had a bit of a brouhaha with the Washington Daily Globe it stirred his political rivals into a big bubbling gumbo of hatertude.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, a real cosmic gumbo indeed.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah. There's Aaron Venable Brown.

[Max Williams]

I love.

[Noel Brown]

Aaron Brown.

[Ben Bullen]

Of times, I've heard Venable.

[Noel Brown]

Isn't that an adjective? Like to describe someone being prestigious or of note? That's venerable. Venerable.

[Ben Bullen]

Venerable.

[Noel Brown]

Moving on, moving on. One of my many historical etymological flubs. But I'm here for it.

[Ben Bullen]

I'm so happy that we began this episode by talking about how cartoonish the English language is. And perhaps because I have some familial roots in the hinterlands of Tennessee. Venable doesn't sound like too odd of a name for me, but yeah, this guy Aaron, he is from Tennessee. He's especially pissed off. He's soup duped, enraged. And he writes a fake confidential letter to the future First Lady Sarah Polk. And in this quote unquote confidential letter, our buddy Venable savages Buchanan and his better half. And he says the following. Mr. Buchanan looks gloomy and dissatisfied. And so did his better half. Until a little private flattery in a certain newspaper puff, which you doubtless noticed, excited hope that by getting a divorce she might set up again in the world to some tolerable advantage.

[Noel Brown]

Read that as gay. I mean, right? A little bit. Isn't there some, like, sub tweety shade being thrown here?

[Ben Bullen]

Exactly, exactly. You nailed it. Because the problem is that James Buchanan, up to now, even unto 2025, he is the nation's only bachelor president. The problem is that James Buchanan at this point is our nation's only bachelor president. So there was no spouse, there was no female spouse to call his better half. And Brown's letter heavily implies there was a man who fit the bill.

[Noel Brown]

It's true. Google James Buchanan and you're inevitably going to discover this assertion that American history declared him to be the first gay president. And it doesn't take a whole lot of digging to discover that the popular understanding of Buchanan as our nation's first gay president comes from his very close personal relationship, not with God. He may have had that as well, but with one man in particular, one William Rufus. William Rufus Devane King. The honorable, venerable William Rufus Rufus Devane King of Alabama. The premise raises a lot of questions. What was the real nature of their relationship? And people love a salacious raising of questions. So I'm sure that froth you're describing was indeed quite bubbly.

[Ben Bullen]

Yes. Yeah, and I love that froth analogy there. Because we also have to remember that the three of us, your faithful correspondents, Here are of a generation or where when we were growing up, there would be lifelong same sex partners who described each other as roommates, which is sad that society forced them into that kind of semi closet space. Buchanan and King Rufus, the Vayan King shared another essential quality in addition to being on the same page politically. They were both bachelor, as you said, lifelong bachelors never having married. Buchanan attended Dickinson College and he studied law in Lancaster. His practice did really well in 1819. In fact, if you walked around the town of Lancaster, you would see that he was considered the city's most eligible bachelor. Everybody thought, this guy is an up and comer. He's got the money, he's got the pizzazz, the panache. Who wouldn't want to marry Buchanan?

[Noel Brown]

Well, that's right. At a certain age, in a certain walk of life, eligible gets attached to bachelor. And it's a positive thing. It means you're a real pick, you're a real catch. Right. You're a real smoke show, a real dime, as the kids say. Do they say that or do they just say that in the 50s?

[Ben Bullen]

I don't know, they may. It reminds me of that old Jane Austen quote from Pride and Prejudice, which is, Sorry folks, not my favorite book. But there's one quote that gets thrown around a lot. Jane Austen wrote, it is a truth universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife. Oh yeah, little bit gold diggery.

[Noel Brown]

Little bit gold diggery. And there's some. A little bit of sub tweety stank on that one too, if you ask me.

[Ben Bullen]

They were all about sub tweety stank. And I'm gonna write down that phrase, cause I appreciate it. Buchanan does ultimately become engaged to a young woman named Ann Coleman. She is of a similar social echelon. She's 23 years old. Her dad is a wealthy tycoon who made his money in iron. And I love that this is the period of history where you can say someone made their money in just a noun.

[Noel Brown]

Oh yeah, for sure. The railroads for example. Just railroads. If we're just going with the noun without.

[Ben Bullen]

I made my money in horse, I.

[Noel Brown]

Made my money in beach. Yeah, like that's what Ken did of the Barbie universe. It's also a time where you could say that someone died from hysterical convulsions.

[Ben Bullen]

Right, right. Wandering wound, which unfortunately not good. Yeah. Happens with Ann Coleman, who's only briefly in the story.

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So visit Apu Apus Edu to learn more. That's Apu Apus Edu the official narrative is that Buchanan was always working and for some reason this caused him to neglect his betrothed, which caused Ann Coleman herself to break off the engagement. So she broke up with him. Not the opposite, immediately died of heartbreak and immediately, like shortly thereafter, died of to Your note, what her doctor at the time said were hysterical convulsions. And the rumor mill of Lancaster goes absolutely nuts like it's their own tmz. On a local level, people are whispering and saying that Ann Coleman committed suicide.

[Noel Brown]

Well, it would seem like Buchanan perhaps harbored a little personal guilt around this, as he did say he entered politics to distract himself from his great grief. He may well have loved this woman. I mean, you know, and look, what's the word? Platonic love is very, very real. And there maybe even could. You know, we also know that in these days, and honestly, well into the future, maybe even into the present, there would be these arrangements where the woman would very much know that the man that she was with was not into women, but they would continue as this facade with an understanding between them, or vice versa. 100%. I mean, I'm not gonna lie not to get too personal, pretty much. That was the deal with my parents. In the opera world back in New York city in the 80s and 90s, it was not the easiest thing to be an out gay man. And there were a lot of these marriages of convenience.

[Ben Bullen]

Right. And sometimes the street name or idiom you may have heard, folks, is the so called lavender marriage.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah.

[Ben Bullen]

Or the beard. Right, right. Or beard. Sometimes these could occur because both partners needed cover and were not sexually into each other, but were close friends. Buchanan, as he said, throws himself into work as a result of this great grief. And while he is in Washington, when he has entered politics for the poly kicks, he and William Rufus Devane King lived together in a communal boarding house, sometimes called a mess, similar to the military term for a cafeteria.

[Noel Brown]

Okay.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah. And this was not just a them thing, to be clear, at first, their boarding house had other Congress members in it, and most of these were also unmarried men. And a lot of them were kind of on the younger side for the time. And this gave their communal home a street name, the Bachelor's Mess. This is where the single guys hang out. And there was not any. At this point, there was not any snarky, subversive subtext of all these people being gay or something. It was just, these guys are unmarried. So, of course, if you're a congressman and you're not hitched, you live here.

[Noel Brown]

It makes sense, I guess. Yeah. Ambassadors do be messy. It's true. Over time, as other members of the group lost their seats in Congress, the population of the mess dwindled from four to three. And then there were two, Buchanan and King. Washington society started to, you know, take notice and look A bit askance at this arrangement.

[Ben Bullen]

Oh, my gosh. And they were so vicious in these social spheres. This is peak cattiness. Right. At the galas and at the balls and the fundraisers, people started calling him Mr. Buchanan and his wife. And they would call these people, they would call this future president and Rufus King. Things like Aunt Fancy and Aunt Nancy.

[Noel Brown]

My Aunt Fancy. That's an expression. Maybe years later, Julia Gardner Tyler, who is the much younger wife of John Tyler, president, remembered them as the Siamese twins, which I guess you could call maybe a little bit less of an insulting nickname. Just the fact that they were close. They were buds. Chang and Ang Bunker were the famous conjoined twins who were popular at the time, who we've talked about on this podcast.

[Ben Bullen]

We have. We have.

[Max Williams]

Just to jump in here real quick because we brought up John Tyler's second wife. I want to just call back to the. John Tyler has a living grandson, which I haven't checked recently to see if the guy's still around, but trying to remember how many children he had with the second wife.

[Ben Bullen]

He was a jackrabbit.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah.

[Max Williams]

He had 15, I think, total, and I think he had at least five, maybe seven with the second wife. He was in his 50s by this point.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah. Yeah. Not as. Not as virile as Mick Jagger or Robert De Niro today, but.

[Max Williams]

Or John the baby maker.

[Ben Bullen]

Right, right. Certainly still getting something.

[Max Williams]

Something.

[Ben Bullen]

Still getting his feather mattress calisthenics on well into years. Yeah. So this is fascinating because you could say these guys were just very close, lifelong friends. There are a lot of people who have close friendships throughout their lives. They cherish their rapport and their friendship. And members of their immediate families, importantly for the time, seem to treat them the same, like, this is my brother from another mother or Buchanan, you may as well be my son. They were besties, Right? Right. They had secret handshakes, I'm sure. And I love that.

[Noel Brown]

I love a secret handshake. Can we do one, Ben? Let's lie about that.

[Ben Bullen]

All right, so in Wheatland, which is the name for Buchanan's country estate, still near Lancaster, because he was a heavy.

[Noel Brown]

Stoner, as it turns out, if you.

[Ben Bullen]

Walk into his estate at this point, you'll see not just a portrait of William Rufus King, but you'll also see a portrait of King's niece, Catherine Margaret Ellis. And after Buchanan dies, spoiler. In 1868, his niece that we mentioned at the top, Harriet Lane Johnston. She corresponds with this niece, Ellis, about how to get. How to get the correspondence of These men from the King home in Alabama.

[Noel Brown]

Right. And sorry, that was Wheatland, not Weed Land, which is over my brain immediately. Correct.

[Ben Bullen]

I thought Wheatland was. I thought that was some sort of strain of cannabis or it could be like.

[Noel Brown]

I'm sure there's a dispensary somewhere in the country called Weedland. Harriet lost both of her parents by the age of 11. And Jane's brother, who was a senator at the time, James Buchanan, of course, Pennsylvania, became Harriet's legal guardian.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah. And we're getting a lot of this from some great Smithsonian articles. Yeah. One by Thomas Balcursky, the 175 Year History of Speculating about President James Buchanan's Bachelorhood. Yeah, I love that we're setting up Harriet Lane's origin story. So how did she become the first lady, for all intents and practices of the Buchanan administration? It's because of this interaction between King and Buchanan, like you were setting up here. She's got a legal guardian due to childhood tragedy. She goes to a boarding school, first in Pennsylvania, then later she moves to Virginia and D.C. she lives with her uncle at his Wheatland estate in Lancaster. And she travels abroad with Buchanan while he is serving as Minister to Great Britain. This guy's a little bit older when he moves into the White House and ascends to the presidency. He's in his 60s in 1857. And at this point, again, he's still a lifelong bachelor. Outside of that one engagement, he has not only never married, but he has also had. Had no known romantic interaction with women.

[Noel Brown]

Yes. No Lady.

[Ben Bullen]

No. Paragars. Flings.

[Noel Brown]

Flings. Dalliances, perhaps? No, none of that. So, Lane.

[Ben Bullen]

Situationships.

[Noel Brown]

There you go. Situationships. Even so. Yeah. So, Lane. Is that what you said? Ben? I'm sorry.

[Ben Bullen]

Situationships.

[Noel Brown]

Okay. We were on the same page. So Lane, at this point, still quite a young woman, joins him in his role at the White House, as she's been his kind of constant companion at this point in 1857, she brings this youthful vigor to the White House, is a really great entertainer, which, as we know, is a role that often falls to first ladies. And she really becomes kind of a people's princess type figure, you know, like.

[Ben Bullen]

That very Princess Diana.

[Noel Brown]

Yep. She's a celebrity for all intents and purposes. Christening ships, signing autographs, doing charity banquets and. And fundraisers.

[Unknown]

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Picture this. You're in the garage, hand covered in grease, just finished tuning up your engine with a part you found on ebay and you realize you know what I could use New brakes. So where do you go next? Back to ebay. You can find anything there there it's unreal. Wipers, headlights, even cold air intakes. It's all there. And you got ebay Guaranteed fit. You order a part and if it doesn't fit, send it back. Simple as that. Look, DIY fixes can be major. Doesn't matter if it's just maintenance or a major mod, you got it. Especially when things are guaranteed to fit. So when you dive into your next car project, start with ebay. All the parts you need. Need at prices you'll love. Guaranteed to fit every time.

Ebay Things People Love Lenovo is built for creators who don't wait for inspiration. They chase it with inventive tech, built in AI tools and seamless performance. Lenovo devices, powered by Intel Core Ultra processors are designed to bring your wildest ideas to life faster. That's the power of Lenovo with Intel inside, enjoy flexible finances, rewards on every purchase and free shipping. And students get special offers when you create an [e-mail].

[Noel Brown]

American Public University is the number one provider of education to our military and veterans in the country.

[Ben Bullen]

They offer something truly unique. Special rates and grants for the entire family, making education affordable not just for those who serve, but also for their loved ones.

[Noel Brown]

If you have a military or veteran family member and are looking for affordable, high quality education, APU is the place for you.

[Ben Bullen]

Visit Apu Apus Edumilitary to learn more. That's Apu Apus Edu Military. She's a fashion plate. She's doing Kardashian level celebrity endorsements.

[Noel Brown]

She's getting sent all the latest Trends by the designers of note and things like that.

[Ben Bullen]

She would have had millions of followers if Instagram were a thing at this point. She also oversees the refurbishment of the famous Blue Room at the White House. She is the lead hostess on several important visits from everything you could imagine. Big deal European folks, VIPs from Japan. In May of 1860, she. She also coordinates a visit from Albert Edward, the Prince of Wales. And look, before Jackie Onassis Kennedy, few First ladies captured public imagination like Harriet Lane.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. And Jackie Yeoh loomed so large that I personally did not know about the legacy of Harriet Lane. Cause we really do think of Jackie O as being that quintessential, you know, First Lady's first Lady, kind of. And I think that's probably in no small part due to the speculation about the President's bachelorhood did not seem to stick in the mind of history in the same way that Jackie O did. But she was very much on the same playing field that Jackie O would occupy. Capturing the public imagination, et cetera.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah. The important distinction here is that prior to Harriet Lane, and maybe let's bracket Martha Washington between Martha Washington and Harriet Lane. First Ladies were very well known in the upper crust of society, like in the D.C. northeast area. But if you ask someone in Oklahoma or California, they probably wouldn't know much about this person. They might not care as much. This changed with Harriet Lane because it became cool to follow her. So women across the country would copy the dresses and the gowns she was wearing, like her inauguration gown.

[Noel Brown]

Trendsetter she became.

[Ben Bullen]

People named their kids after her dude. They started writing her into popular songs. And she was beloved. She was beloved. Yeah, it's very Camelot, Jackie O stuff. And during this context of history, the United States is teetering ever closer to the brink of civil war. And this, they called her the Democratic Queen because the US has always eternally struggled with the difference between meritocracy, democracy and monarchy. Right? For sure.

[Noel Brown]

For sure. Of course, she also was very active in philanthropic pursuits. And she even took on the cause of Native peoples, of First Nation peoples in improving conditions on these reservations, which we know were not great.

[Ben Bullen]

Absolutely. And I would say based on the conversations I've had with another show of ours, wrongful conviction, I would say those terrible conditions also continue in the modern day with Indigenous American populations. But she was trying to improve conditions, making a good faith effort. Her uncle leaves office in 1861. But she's such a successful social personality that she continues her philanthropy. She helps found a children's clinic at the Johns Hopkins Hospital. So thank you, Ms. Lane. That's fantastic. And while we're extolling her virtues, let us also mention that she was a huge fan of the arts and she acquired so many pieces of pretty notable work. And. And she had always planned not to hoard it or give it to her family when she finally passed, but she always wanted it to be for the American people.

[Noel Brown]

A true patron.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah. And when she passes away in 1903, she gives it all to Uncle Sam. And the Smithsonian is so happy about this that one of their officials calls her the first lady of the National Collection of Fine Arts.

[Noel Brown]

You gotta start somewhere. She really kicked off that collection in a very big way. It's true. And as we mentioned, she was hugely generous to Johns Hopkins, the famous hospital in Baltimore, leaving an endowment to children's clinics, and it became an incredibly important pediatric facility when that wasn't as much of a thing as it is today in terms of, like, specialty facilities designated for children's healthcare and for children dealing with very difficult conditions.

[Ben Bullen]

And before we move on, Max, you hit us up in the chat. As a fellow presidential history buff, we're interested to see what tangent you wanted to bring us with Buchanan.

[Max Williams]

Yeah, it's just, you know, it's two things tangentially related to the story. Well, because one thing is there's a lot of the more clickbaity you want about the first gay presidents. People have this theory that Lincoln was in fact gay. A lot of times what you'll read when stuff like that, people go, oh, no, Buchanan was gay. And obviously there's no proof about all this. I think, you know, not to get too woke on my soapbox where I think it's more just like the lines are more blurred than people may want to accept they are. I think the big reason why everyone likes to talk about Buchanan in this way is because it's better than talking about Buchanan in any other way because he is widely considered the worst president in American history.

[Noel Brown]

Good dimension, Max.

[Ben Bullen]

We have one of the worst three. He's one of the worst three.

[Noel Brown]

How is he such a an f up?

[Max Williams]

He watched the country start the Civil War and did nothing. He is amongst its Andrew Johnson, James Buchanan and Frier Pierce are considered the three worst. It was funny because Pierce is right before him and Johnson is two after him. So it goes Lincoln and Johnson. So it's three guys in a row who just royally up the Civil War type stuff. If they would have done just even a competent job, they would have gone a lot better and Well, I mean, Pierce was also fanning the flames. He was a proud segregationist.

[Ben Bullen]

I would say if they had been not even competent, but less incompetent history.

[Max Williams]

Less John Tyler ish.

[Ben Bullen]

Would have gone in a completely different direction.

[Noel Brown]

So lousy president, pretty excellent first lady.

[Max Williams]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, you can't win them all. Says America. But also to the point about sexuality at the time. Yes, more fluid in terms of how things were encountered in day to day life on the ground. But the Abraham Lincoln rumors in Apocrypha come from some of his direct correspondence, but also come from his younger days when he was bunking in the same bed with another dude. I do want to point out that at that time, when he was living at that time in the areas that he was living in, that was not uncommon. You know what I mean? Not everybody was able to pay for two separate hotel rooms at the holidays. And folks, with this, we are actually going to make an audible, which you won't hear. You won't hear this audible because it's off mic. We have conferred and this is going to be part one of First Ladies Weren't Wives Part two, because there's just so much on Buchanan. But we'll be back later this week with more first ladies who were first ladies.

[Noel Brown]

Yep, it's true.

[Ben Bullen]

Or we're wives.

[Noel Brown]

We're wives 100%. Always a pleasure working with our buddy, Jeff, the G Man Bartlett. No, what was it? Gsauce. Factor G. Money? G unit.

[Max Williams]

Kind of like G sauce, though.

[Noel Brown]

Factor G. Remember G Love and special sauce. I think that's what my brain was portmanteauing it into.

[Ben Bullen]

Yes. Yeah. So big thanks to our research associate, Jeff Factor G Bartlett. Big, big thanks to our returning super producer, Max Williams.

[Noel Brown]

Long may he reign. Welcome back, buddy.

[Ben Bullen]

And I am overdue to check in with our composer, Alex Williams. I haven't spoken with him in a minute, but how is doing, Max?

[Max Williams]

Alex is doing well. He's doing great. He is, you know, on the road doing the things that Alex loves to do. Hiking, yoga, having opinions about things like my older brother that's a year and a half, eight days older than me.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, man. Okay, good dude.

[Noel Brown]

Love the both of you. Gotta check in with our buddy Alex as well, who composed this Bangin Bop.

[Ben Bullen]

Mm. I'm. I'm very overdue actually to talk with Alex about some screenplay stuff. So, Max, extra bonus points to you, my friend, for being diplomatic. I know it can be difficult with siblings sometimes.

[Max Williams]

Yeah, I mean. I mean, I have a natural propensity to be passive. Aggressive and I did it on air and then I immediately started backtracking it because Greg Smith has not done me any good in my 34 years of life.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, speaking of cartoonishly passive aggressive, Big thanks to the Quister AKA Jonathan Strickland. Big thanks as well to aj, Bahamas Jacobs, Jorge, Riverside Cham. Who else? Who else?

[Noel Brown]

Oh, of course we've got Christopher Haciotes and Eve's Jeffcoats here in Spirit. And where would we be without each other? Ben, huge thanks to you. This was a fun one. This was a real romp.

[Ben Bullen]

And to you as well, everybody, everybody who's feeling generous. Since we're talking about politics and people who get elected. If you feel charitable and you would like to elect to leave us a kind review on your podcast platform of choice, we sure appreciate it and we hope you too in later this week.

[Noel Brown]

Indeed. We'll see you next time folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Unknown]

Lenovo is built for creators who don't wait for inspiration. They chase it with inventive tech, built in AI tools and seamless performance. Lenovo devices powered by by Intel Core Ultra processors are designed to bring your wildest ideas to life faster. That's the power of Lenovo with Intel inside. Enjoy flexible financing, rewards on every purchase and free shipping. And students get special offers when you create an [e-mail] lenovo lenovo.

We finally switched to T Mobile because with them we can be connected here and there.

[Ben Bullen]

Dad, the cousins in Mexico have a.

[Unknown]

Surprise prize for you.

And enjoy the gift of staying connected. Switch and start saving today. Get four Samsung Galaxy S25 phones with Galaxy AI on us and four lines for just 25 bucks per line plus non stop talk, text and data between us and Mexico. Visit a store t mobile.com or call 1-800-T-Mobile 1-800-T-Mobile.

[Danielle Fishel]

See details@t mobile.com this is Danielle Fishel from Pod meets World. Here's the thing about JCPenney right now it's like stumbling on a secret treasure trove. You know those hidden gems that make you look twice and think, wait, that's from where? Like carbon blue Adidas sneakers, trending comfortable and totally unexpected. Or the cute matching set I just got, perfect for everything from drop offs to after school mama trauma bonding. If you're already shopping JCPenney, it's time to stop gatekeeping. If not, it's time to check out what you've been missing. Shop jcpenney.com yes jcpenney American Public University.

[Noel Brown]

Is the number one provider of education to our military and veterans in the country.

[Ben Bullen]

They offer something truly unique special rates and grants for the entire family, making education affordable not just for those who serve, but also for their loved ones.

[Noel Brown]

If you have a military or veteran family member and are looking for affordable, high quality education, APU is the place for you.

[Ben Bullen]

Visit Apu Apus edumilitary to learn more. That's Apu Apus. Edu Military this is an iHeart podcast.