How the Kentucky Derby Became a Thing

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Ridiculous History – How the Kentucky Derby Became a Thing

Podcast: Ridiculous History
Hosts: Ben Bowlin & Noel Brown
Episode Date: September 25, 2025
Episode Theme: Tracing the surreal, lively, and at times absurd origins and evolution of the Kentucky Derby—America’s most famous horse race—through history and its social, economic, and cultural impact.

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1. Overview and Theme

This episode of Ridiculous History dives headfirst into the "beautiful, brutal, and often ridiculous" evolution of the Kentucky Derby. Hosts Ben and Noel deconstruct how a British-inspired horse race became an American cultural institution marked by fashion, gambling, dubious ethics, and a parade of outrageous traditions.

Ben and Noel’s goal: unpack the Derby’s bizarre history, colorful characters, and modern spectacle—demonstrating just how much of it is, in fact, "ridiculous."

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2. Key Discussion Points and Insights

A. The Quirky Origin Story & the Colonel

• The Derby’s American founder: Colonel Meriwether Lewis Clark Jr.

  • Grandson of explorer William Clark (of Lewis and Clark fame)—with his own suitably elaborate name.
  • Ben on Clark Jr.: “He is perhaps known from a semi famous Lewis and Clark expedition, which of course informed the much more important thing. Oregon Trail.” (07:19)

• Clark Jr.’s travels to England (Epsom Derby, est. 1780) and France (Grand Prix de Paris, est. 1863) inspire him to bring horse racing grandeur to Kentucky.

• On founding the Louisville Jockey Club and Churchill Downs (with land donated by John & Henry Churchill), Ben likens it to starting a “country club kind of thing” (11:18).

B. Gambling, Scandals & Bookies

• The essential intertwining of gambling and horse racing from the start.
• 1886: Bookies had to pay for “pooling privileges”—the legal rights to take bets at the Derby.
  • C.M. White paid $30,600 (about $1 million today) for the monopoly, then charged bookies $100 each for access. (13:53)
• Massive bookie boycott in protest; owners like James Ben Ali Haggin (who named his horse “Ben Ali” with “a burst of humility”) supported the boycott, crippling the Derby’s finances (23:19).
• Churchill Downs came close to bankruptcy and closure around 1903 before being saved by new management.

Gambling Jargon Explained

• Bookie etymology: “physically write down in a book your donation or your gamble and the odds of a thing.” (17:25)
• Vigorish (“vig”): the bookmaker’s commission.

C. The Rise of the Triple Crown

• The national importance of the Derby is cemented as winners pursue victories in the two other big races: Preakness Stakes (Baltimore) and Belmont Stakes (Elmont, NY).
• 1919: Sir Barton becomes the first horse to win all three—later known as the “Triple Crown.”
  • The phrase is made popular by writer Charles Hatton after Gallant Fox repeats the feat (27:45).
• The glamor and challenge of winning all three further transform the Derby from regional oddity to national spectacle.

D. The Dark Side: Doping & Animal Welfare

• With big money came big problems: horse doping, lack of animal consent or welfare. (30:39)
• 1968: Winner “Dancer’s Image” stripped of the title after testing positive for an anti-inflammatory painkiller.
• The hosts reflect on the ethics: “Unlike human athletes, our equine friends don't possess the ability to consent to being doped or drugged.” (31:25)
• HBO’s “Luck” TV series canceled due to horse injuries; Rolling Stone’s 2024 investigation and a dozen deaths in 2023 at Churchill Downs highlight ongoing controversies.

E. Derby as Social & Fashion Event

• The real race is just a small part; media and attendees focus on “fancy hats, mint juleps, and panicked horses” (01:41, 23:19).
• The rise of the fashion spectacle:
  • Fascinators (elaborate headpieces), sombreros, cloche hats—sometimes glaringly “intensely white,” sometimes culturally appropriative (41:04).
  • “The custom hats are apparently quite expensive...people pay upwards of $500 to $600 for a custom hat they only wear once.” (42:31)
• Ben and Noel liken National Geographic’s coverage of Derby fashion to “observing animals in the wild and not the horses. I’m talking about the people, you know, and these weird mating rituals, like peacocking around with their bizarre hats.” (39:34)

F. The Absurdity of Racehorse Names

A lighter segment features the hosts sharing their favorite bizarre Derby horse names—often puns, double entendres, or inside jokes.

• Famous and infamous examples:
  • “Hoof Hearted” (say it five times fast) (44:30)
  • Potoooooooo (“Potatoes” misspelled by a stablehand, 1700s) (43:47)
  • Sofa King Fast, Ben Dover, Anita Bath, Maya Normous Boot, Hugh Jass, Brangelina, Chester Drawers, and more (45:48+)
• Max, the producer, uses a random horse name generator live (“Majestic Mirage,” “Thunderbolt Tango,” “Velvet Nebula”)—sparking a round of improv descriptions (47:05+).

G. Food and Final Cultural Oddities

• Brief mention of traditional Kentucky Derby cuisine, like the infamous Hot Brown sandwich (open-faced, turkey-bacon-cheese gravy) and how it compares to other legacy sporting event foods (pimento cheese at the Masters) (49:08).
• Episode closes with gratitude to listeners, the behind-the-scenes team, and a run of (often juvenile) joke names.

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3. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the absurd premise of the Derby:
  “You wake up one day and you say, you know what? Forget about work. It’s nice outside. I want to put on a fancy hat. I want to maybe drink mint juleps, and I want to watch a bunch of panicked horses run around in a circle.” (01:41 – Ben)

• On Derby founder’s family tree:
  “He’s only related to one of them, William Clark, but he got Lewis up in there too.” (06:38 – Noel)

• On the bookie boycott:
  “So when our buddy CM White shakes down all the bookies at the new Kentucky Derby, the bookies boycott. They say, ‘We’re just not going to show up. No one can gamble.’” (23:19 – Ben)

• On Derby fashion:
  “It’s like National Geographic is commenting on this as though they’re like observing animals in the wild and not the horses. I’m talking about the people, you know, and these weird mating rituals, like peacocking around with their bizarre hats.” (39:34 – Noel)

• On horse name absurdity:
  “At first glance, [Hoof Hearted] seemed like a charming and appropriate name for an equine friend. But if you say it five times fast, then you’ll realize it’s clever double entendre that made it past Jockey Club censors.” (44:32 – Ben from Britannica)

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4. Timestamps for Key Segments

• [06:07] – Kentucky Derby founder Meriwether Lewis Clark Jr. profile
• [08:03] – Visiting Europe’s races and inspiration
• [13:00] – Bookie monopoly controversy
• [23:19] – Bookie boycott and race disruption
• [25:16] – Near bankruptcy, Matt Wynn saves Derby
• [27:02] – Invention of the Triple Crown
• [30:36] – Prize money inflation and rise of big business
• [31:13] – Doping scandals and animal welfare
• [39:06] – Fashion: fascinators, hats, appropriation
• [43:47] – Legendary horse names and naming games
• [49:08] – Kentucky Derby food: The Hot Brown

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5. Tone and Style

• Warmly irreverent, full of banter, running jokes (especially “horsey boy”), and pun-laden riffing.
• Blend of genuine historical curiosity with tongue-in-cheek skepticism: “Today we’re going to learn whether or not it is ridiculous. Spoiler: it is.” (06:07 – Ben)

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6. Takeaways

• The Kentucky Derby is a living artifact; its “traditions” are often accidental, opportunistic, or just the result of rich men copying European precedent mixed with American-style excess.
• Its ongoing popularity is inseparable from gambling, spectacle, and over-the-top fashion, often overshadowing dark issues around animal treatment and sports ethics.
• Even something as serious as a world-famous sport is riddled with “ridiculous history”—from bizarre founder names to horse owner feuds to horse names that could double as Bart Simpson prank calls.

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In summary:
This episode explores not just how the Kentucky Derby started, but how a combination of social climbing, gambling, fashion, animal drama, and pure absurdity produced today’s uniquely American horse racing spectacle—a parade that’s as much about hats and jokes as horses and history.

Transcript

[A]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you as always so much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our number one horsey boy, the main that just won't quit. Our super producer, Mr. Max Williams.

[B]

Our main main. Congratulations, Ben. You finally, after four and a half years, you hit me with one. I just don't know how to respond on that one.

[A]

The main part I can hit you.

[B]

On, but the horsey boy, I just. You got me, bud. Y Max is speechless for the first time ever, yet he still speaks. No. Hey, guys. Irma Gerd, it's the Kentucky Derby.

[A]

Ah, yes. Yeah. That is none other than Mr. Noel Brown. Noel, do we have a sound cue for you yet?

[B]

Can it be that horsey neigh like from Insane in the Membrane? You know the one?

[A]

Yeah. For this. What it must be.

[B]

I mean, for all times. I'm cool with that as well. I'm totally. I'm more of a horsey boy than Max. To be fair, Ben, I'm a little.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I'm just kidding.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

I Greek completely. And I don't even know what it means, but I agree. Nobody does. It's a field thing, guys. Vibes based.

[A]

We're working out horsey boys.

[B]

You're on the horse girl phenomenon. That's a thing. There's like a type. Yes.

[A]

Shout out Shane Gillis, folks. Over on this show, they call me Ben Bullen and we've all been there. You know, you wake up one day and you say, you know what? Forget about work. It's nice outside. I want to put on a fancy hat. I want to maybe drink mint juleps, and I want to watch a bunch of panicked horses run around in a circle.

[B]

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[A]

Yeah, we're not the most fancy hat guys ourselves.

[B]

I'm just saying, whoever came up with this as a, as a wake up activity, they must have had something going on. I almost am willing to bet we're going to talk about exactly what that was.

[A]

What a setup. Yeah, it's a tad specific. But as you said, Noel, there is an annual event that all Americans just sort of accept as normal. It's called the Kentucky Derby. And today we're going to learn whether or not it is ridiculous. Spoiler it is.

[B]

Boy, is it ever. And what better way to start a ridiculous topic than with an absolutely ridiculous historical name.

[A]

You think it's ridiculous?

[B]

I mean, dude, the question you immediately ask yourself is like, who is this guy related to? And we answer that very quickly. We're talking about, of course, none other than Colonel Meriwether Lewis Clark Jr. He's only related to one of them, William Clark, but he got Lewis up in there too. And I believe Lewis's first name was Meriwether.

[A]

You know, I didn't think about that. You are absolutely.

[B]

I was having to look it up. I'm almost positive that's the case. Meriwether Lewis and William Clark. How come he's got. Didn't have a William in there? His dad was William. He really loved his boy Merriweather.

[A]

Yeah. This is the Colonel who is the grandson of William Clark.

[B]

My bad grandson. Yes.

[A]

Yeah. He is perhaps known from a semi famous Lewis and Clark expedition, which of course informed the much more important thing. Oregon Trail.

[B]

Yeah, love it. Dysentery. All day dysentery.

[A]

Ford the river. So this guy is originally from Kentucky. We'll call him Junior. He is a man of means. He wants to see the rest of the world. And unlike most Americans at the time, he has the ability to travel across the pond.

[B]

Yeah. And I don't think we go into specifically what his business was, but being a descendant of that famous line, I imagine he was born into money.

[A]

He was not pushed for means. You know, they weren't sweating the spoons nor the light bill. In 1872, our buddy Junior travels over to England and he witnesses a locally famous horse race in Epsom, Surrey. It's called not the Kentucky, but the Derby Stakes. And people in the know usually just call it the Derby. And Max as we're going on, we're going to lean on you as our sportsman expert for a few of these.

[B]

I mean, I wouldn't expect anything otherwise. But you know, Kentucky Derby, while I understand it, I also don't like everyone. It's kind of like one of those things like NASCAR where it's really easy to reduce it down to this notion of watching people drive a car around in circles and it's not until you drill down into the stats and the mechanics of it all. And like, again, if we're looking at the horse, horse boy side of things, the breeds and the prowess of these beautiful creatures. But as we're going to get into, I don't know, man, I can definitely get a little more behind people being into cars than this kind of parading of these specimens. And one thing to get here at the top, what NASCAR has and indie racing, Formula one racing has is quantity. There is a lot of racing, Kentucky Derby, a lot of quantity. I had no idea we're going to get to that. It's like all about the day. It's like, it's like the, it's like hanging out in the fish lot and then the Fish concerts, like moments long. It's all about the. It's all about the lot. Barely about the concert.

[A]

And folks. No is saying Fish P H I S E. That's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not a parking lot with Fish, but a parking lot full of people who are fans of the jam band Fish, which I think.

[B]

And lots of nitrous tanks.

[A]

I like a lot of their records.

[B]

You know what, I was actually just talking with some friends last night. I would absolutely go see the band Fish. I never have, but I would do it. I think they're interesting.

[A]

Make a weekend of it. So look, the original Derby over there in Surrey. It is first run in 1780. It continues today. For now, all we need to note about this is that it was and is open to all, all three year old horses, which sounds very young for humans but is perfect racing for racehorses. This inspires Junior who by the way.

[B]

I was just looking up his CV a little bit, Ben and he, he was known for being a little bit touchy and had more than a few occasions where he threatened people with guns.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah, Oddcat for sure. Definitely moneyed, which, you know, we'll do that to you if you're not careful. So Junior later did travel to Perry where he h up with the French Jockey Club because much like cycling, the French are ahead of the curve in this particular sport. As well, that had been formed in 1863 and the French horse boys had formed the nation's greatest horse race up until that point, the Grand Prix de Paris.

[A]

Yeah, this is the premier race for the entire country. It's needless to say, Junior is impressed. He makes it back to the United States and he found something called the Louisville Jockey Club. And he forms this club, which is kind of like a country club kind of thing. We could think of it that way. And he's hoping to raise monetary support to build racing facilities. He's walking back into Kentucky and talking to the well heeled people and he's saying, look, they got awesome horse races in Europe. This leads to the foundation of Churchill Dallas, which is named after John and Henry Churchill because they're the guys in that meeting who donated the land for the track.

[B]

And I believe Clark lived with their family for a time, or he had a real close connection to their family. So at first, this whole enterprise was a right out of the gates, was a phenomenal success. The horse folk from the region would come out. This is sort of one of the only games in town. They stood up and took notice. Unfortunately, things did go a little bit sideways, not too far along in this, when a nouveau riche gold rush tycoon, like a dude that was made his money in the gold rush named James Ben Ali Hagen, had a bit of a dalliance with some gambling operations. Ben, maybe this is. This is something that you found. This is an interesting.

[A]

Oh, yes, no pun left behind. James Ben Ali Hagen, Turkish national, made his money in the Gold rush and he ran a foul. A foal of sketchy gambling monopolies.

[B]

I will, Ben, I will.

[A]

All right, well, here we go. So it's a bit of background. It's 1886. There's another guy named C.M. white. C.M. white purchases like a EP level monopoly on what they were calling pooling privileges. That's the right to legally gamble on Kentucky Derby horse races.

[B]

Yeah, it's funny how they still call like office pools, you know, like pool. That's right. I guess that is a gambling term. Yeah, I guess it's sort of like the ante. It's like the pile of money that everyone contributes to and then the winner takes all. The Right, Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Just so this guy White, he pays at the time in 1886, US$30,600 to control gambling at the emerging Kentucky Derby. And I think we need a bit of an inflation calculator.

[B]

Can we get a boop max and a boop?

[A]

There it is. I love when you do it like.

[B]

Low dulcet poop of Max.

[A]

I love when he does it live. All right, so $30,600 in 1886 is equivalent to. Drum roll. No, you got it.

[B]

Oh. It's a million bucks, roughly 50. A million 54,645. Which still seems like a bargain to get on the ground floor of what would ultimately be a multi million dollar operation. Dude, bigger than that. Long term, right? I mean, come on.

[A]

Right? This dude is so mafia about it. He says, okay, I've got the rights. And he goes to every bookie working at the Kentucky Derby and he says, you guys have to pay me $100 straight up just to work at this track, just to take bets.

[B]

And just to be clear, and this is maybe sort of a statement and a question, a bookie is a bookmaker and it's not inherently illegal. Like there are sports books operations and so there are legal ones and then there are illegal ones. But I think a lot of times when people throw around bookie, they're thinking about the ones that'll like break your legs if you don't pay up.

[A]

Right? Yeah. The idea is you take bets from the general public on any number of usually sporting events, but Las Vegas and Macau get crazy with this. You make a great point. The argument goes back to legitimacy. Like, it's totally legit and on the right side of the law for there to be a bookie in, say, Monaco, and you're betting on car races in Monaco. But we had super producer Max jump in for a second. Max, you want to give us some on the street recognition of bookies?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I think another big thing about bookies, I've known some bookies, most time they're part time bookies, not like big time bookies. But until recently, especially America, like sports gambling was very legal in most places in the country. It's just illegal, right? Right, yeah. Illegal, correct. Yeah, yeah. Apology? No, no, just making sure. Because it's a little confusing and it's still kind of a gray area where like now you're starting to hear these ads for these sports books. And like when you go to certain casinos, they have the section where there's all these different, what they call sports books. And it dates back to sort of this old timey way of doing things. One of the fantasy football podcasts I listen to. I'm not giving any publicity or free advertising to anyone here, so I'm not.

[A]

This is brought to you by DraftKings.

[B]

Actually, no, it's not DraftKings.

[A]

But one of the. No, no. But this is brought to you by DraftKings.

[B]

I was listening to fantasy football podcast and they were talking about a specific sports book that, like, their big line is, like, the only one legal in Florida, right? Yeah, Right. That's the kind of language you're starting to hear in this copy when we're still in this wild west. We talked about this very much in our fantasy sports episode. So all this stuff kind of figures in. And how this ties in with bookies is like, you know, for a long time, it's like, okay, how do you gamble on these things? There's just a guy you knew, like, in the neighborhood. Was that set at the bar with you?

[A]

There's an etymology we have to get into, which is that in the origin story, during the day, the bookmakers or the bookies would physically write down in a book your donation or your gamble and the odds of a thing. So there is a reason it's called bookmaking. They were literally making a book 100%.

[B]

And just wanted to pull a little tidbit that was news to me, or at least a question that I had that I maybe didn't fully have the answer to. And it involves a term that you like to throw around. Ben the Vigorous. The way that bookies cover these bets is by or at least more than cover. They're covering it, I guess, because people have to pay down on their bets, and then they either get their money back plus whatever the winnings is based on the odds of the bet. The bookmakers control the odds, and they strategically not manipulate, but they sort of have to have knowledge of what's being bet on in such a way that they can move the odds around to attract bets, but also make sure covering it and that they're able to get their commission or their vig or vigorous. Right.

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[B]

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[A]

So the folks at the Kentucky Derby, during its origin story, it was not necessarily a social nor a fashion event. It was not the Met Gala or whatever. They wanted to make money off these horses. And so when our buddy CM White shakes down all the bookies at the new Kentucky Derby, the bookies boycott. They say, we're just not going to show up. No one can gamble. You can't make high dollar bets over at the Derby. This happens in 1886. Our pal Gold Rush, James Hagen does not vibe with this. He learns he cannot place a bet on his champion horse that he, in a burst of humility, names Ben Ali. And so he says, you know what? I'm with the bookies. I'm going to boycott the race as well. Not one horse from my stable will participate in your little Kentucky Derby. And we're not going to play ball until the bookies return. Derby leadership calls his bluff. That pisses him off even more. He goes to talk to his other horse owning friends. What's the word for a guy who owns horses the way you own a restaurant?

[B]

Yeah, I don't know. Horse boy.

[A]

Horse boy. Horseman. No, horseman.

[B]

Horseman's the rider. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'm sticking with horse boy for just about everything pertaining to the topic because I just love it so much. This was bad news, right? This was like borderline devastating because everyone starts to. To join in with these boycotts, other people that have interest in the bookmakingness of it all, other owners, other gamblers, et cetera. And while the bookies did return the following year in 1887. The damage had kind of been done, at least up until some changes took place.

[A]

Yeah, this pattern continues until Churchill Downs goes so far Churchill downhill that it is going to be closed and bankrupt around 1903. So it gets sold off and a new crew steps in. Another colonel, of course. Yeah, his name's Matt Wynn. He's also from Louisville. And Churchill Downs manages to repair its reputation. It becomes the number one race for three year old thoroughbreds here in the United States.

[B]

So let's just say that you're a jockey or what do you say? A horse lord, you know, the owners horse, Lord's Fun. And you got a nag or a filly or a stallion that wins over there at the Kentucky Derby. Well, I mean, wouldn't you want to keep going?

[A]

Why stop there? Says everybody with a gambling problem. After winning the Derby, horse owners start sending their horses in the US to compete in two other races. The Preakness Stakes in Baltimore and then the Belmont Stakes in Elmont, New York.

[B]

Why isn't it in Belmont, New York? Why don't they call it the Elmont Stakes? That doesn't make any sense to me.

[A]

It's a whole thing.

[B]

Also the Preakness. Doesn't that sound like a thing you'd say about something that was really rad? Like that is the Preakness, the absoluteness, you know?

[A]

Right. Like the ability of having or the capability of having the peak of a thing.

[B]

100.

[A]

That's what always strikes me like Jinkos are Preakness. 1990s genes.

[B]

Peak Preakness, indeed. So these other races were pretty. But it was just kind of like the success of the Kentucky Derby kind of elevated them in a way because they were the only other games in town.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, they're pretty profitable races. In 1919, there's a horse named Sir Barton who is owned by a human named John E. Madden, and Madden is also from Kentucky. Anyway, Sir Barton wins all three of these races. The Kentucky Derby, the Preakness Stakes and the Belmont St. This means the guy was the first Triple Crown horse. A term we've all heard before, but the term itself isn't used until more than a decade later.

[B]

That's right. A second horse named Gallant Fox also won all three. Is this what they call the Triple Crown?

[A]

This is the Triple Crown because Gallant Fox inspired the sports writer of the time, Charles Hatton, to popularize the term Triple Crown. And this launches huge public interest, not just in the States, but across the world. Right, because we Learned this from England, and we learned this from France. And there's a dark side, because everyone in the US is at this time fueled with a growing interest in the pseudoscience of eugenics and social Darwinism. And they started asking each other in certain circles whether it was possible to breed a quote unquote super horse.

[B]

And if we can do it with horses, maybe we can do it with people. Yeah, it's weird, dude. The idea of, like, observing these specimens being put through their paces, it just kind of. Well, you're gonna get to it, Ben. I mean, I don't mean to scoop it, but, you know, with athletes that put themselves through the ringer, you know, whether it be training or drug enhancement, they. They know what they're doing, right? Yeah, we'll get to it. Let's talk a little bit about the Triple Crown. Since 1931, the Triple Crown races have happened in a specific order. First you win the Derby, then the Preakness, and then the Belmont. First live radio broadcast of the Derby came on May 16, 1925, where you would have just had some absolute rapid fire. Mid Atlantic, followed by.

[A]

It'S Charlie Brown's Leftover Spain.

[B]

Dudes. Thank you. Thank you. Get into some really fun horse names. But it just. It's become such a joke in the best possible way, these absurd horse names. And that's what I think of when I think of the Kentucky Derby is this. That cartoonish kind of coverage, Right?

[A]

And if we fast forward, the first television coverage aired on May 7, 1949. That was regional and was pre recorded. The first national television Coverage airs on May 3, 1952. This feeds public interest. This is great for the bookies. This is great for the people who own and sell the horses. In 1954, just a few years later, the official prize, they call it a purse for winning first place, exceeds US$100,000 in 1954. If we can throw to an inflation calculator, max, give us a wildly different.

[B]

Boot and a dude. Oh, my God. That's relaxing. It was relaxing.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

Yeah, we got around $1.2 million in today's dollars.

[A]

Yeah. One billion.

[B]

Nearly 1.3.

[A]

Yeah. $1,200,921.93. This is a big business. And like all big businesses with serious money on the line, serious problems come to light. And you set it up so well, Noel. Human athletes then and now fall victim to accusations of doping. And horses are no different. Here's another horse name. We love a horse named dancer's image. In 1968.

[B]

That's right. Dancer's image in 1968 was found to contain the horse contained traces of an anti inflammatory painkiller, called it phenylbutazone.

[A]

Yeah. Unlike human athletes, our equine friends don't possess the ability to consent to being doped or drugged. And they don't have the capacity to understand what's being forced upon them. This is just the beginning with issues surrounding animal racing. From camels to dogs to horses, people oppose this.

[B]

Do you remember there was, I think it was an HBO television series about horse racing that happened a handful of years ago and it was canceled very quickly, maybe even before the season ended, because it was just rampant abuse of the animals because they were trying to make it as real as possible. And the only way to make it as real as possible is to treat the animals with a lot of brutality. Yeah, the show was called Luck and it was canceled due to the deaths of three horses during its production. This was a Dustin Hoffman vehicle and PETA got in the mix. And so I'm just saying, if that's what they're doing in a TV show to paint an accurate picture of this era, what must it have been like in the era?

[A]

Yeah, definitely an odor in the court. Which is also a name of a real life racehorse. Look, just last year, 2024, a journalist named Kalya Richardson from Rolling Stone dove into the controversy surrounding racehorses. She said, quote, corruption and a win at all cost mentality have long been a part of horse racing. But in recent years, that culture has led to dire consequences. The FBI got involved, folks. More than two dozen people were charged with secretly distributing drugs to racehorses in 2020 and in 2023, not that long ago. So 12 horses, a dozen horses died at Churchill Downs immediately before and after the race.

[B]

And Ben, you pointed out in your research that the New York Times documentary Broken Horses is a good watch if you want to dig a little deeper. Plus, we have explorations of this on our other show, stuff they don't want you to know. Along with our pal Matt Frederick and.

[A]

Our pal Dylan, the Tennessee pal, Fagan.

[B]

Yes, indeed. Also a bit of a horse. Boy.

[A]

There's a vile sickness in Abbas town. You must excise it, dig into the deep earth and cut it out. The village is ravaged. Entire families have been consumed.

[B]

You know how waking up from a dream, a familiar place can look completely alien. Get back, everyone.

[A]

Let's go. N. And if you see the devil walking around inside of another man, you must cut out the very heart of him. Burn his body and scatter the ashes in the furthest corner of this town. As a warning from iHeart podcasts and grim and mild from Aaron Manke, this is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater audio universe, starring Jewel State and Ray Wise. Listen to Havoc town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Devil walks in Abbostown.

[B]

At 19, Elena Sada believed she had found her calling. In the new season of Sacred Scandal, we pull back the curtain on a life built on devotion and deception. A man of God, Martial Maciel, looked Elena in the eye and promised her a life of purpose within the Legion of Christ. My name is Elena Sada, and this is my story. It's a story of how I learned to hide, to cry, to survive, and eventually how I got out. This season on Sacred Scandal, hear the full story from the woman who lived it. Witness the journey from devout follower to determined survivor as Elena exposes the man behind the cloth and the system that protected him. Even the darkest secrets eventually find their way to the light. Listen to Sacred Scandal, the many secrets of Martial Maciel as part of the My Kultura podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's your favorite Jersey girl, Gia Giudice. Welcome to Casual Chaos, where I share my story. This week, I'm sitting down with Vanderpump.

[A]

Rules star Sheena Shay. I don't really talk to either of.

[B]

Them, if I'm being honest. There will be an occasional text one way or the other from me to Ariana. Maybe a happy birthday from Ariana to me. I think the last time I talked to Tom, it was like, congrats on America's Got Talent. This is a convo you don't want to miss. Listen to Casual chaos on the iHeartRadio.

[A]

App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric that this is something we've been doing for, like, hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelas, who, with Rutherford Falls, became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first native Comic Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage, Burn bridges on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, it's Stephanie, Beatriz and Melissa Fumaro and this is more better. We are jumping right in and ready to hear from you, your thoughts, your questions, your feelings about socks with sandals. And we're ready to share some possibly questionable advice and hot takes.

[A]

God sucks so hard.

[B]

Like, I'm so sorry, can you out petty them? Can you match their pettiness for funsies? Yeah, we had so much fun last season. Laughing, crying, talking to some new and old friends. Remember when we were in that scene where you guys were just supposed to hug and I was standing? Oh yeah. And I was like, can I also hug them? I'm like, this has no friends. And this time around we are. Say it, Melissa.

[A]

Should I?

[B]

Right. Getting a little more better. Oh, finally. It's all the dressing room talk you loved in season one. All the things. Because aren't we all trying to get a little more better? Listen to more better on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

So we didn't want to leave you without a dope hoof to trot to Dressage is weird. A lot of people comment about the Kentucky Derby in terms of social, like social import. Right. So when you are looking at the Derby and the actual Derby, by the way, the actual horse racing is a very small part of the modern experience. A lot of times the media is going to focus on the fashion, the eye popping hats. Noel, this is where you and I learned about something called fascinators.

[B]

Yeah, not to be confused with terrifiers. That's very different. Is its own thing. Fascinators are a super posh accessory.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, it's weird. Imagine the fanciest hat pin or headband ever. It's a hair clip times a million. They're colorful, they're vibrant. People wear them to stand out at the Kentucky Derby even if they're not wearing a hat.

[B]

Can I just say that I really love that National Geographic is commenting on this as though they're like observing like animals in the wild and not the horses. I'm talking about the people, you know, and these weird mating rituals, like peacocking around with their bizarre hats. I'm sure we saw some like some of those crazy taxidermy hat Type situations that we've discussed, I believe, with our buddy AJ Bahamas.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Good callback, Noel. This reminds me of being in college and looking at anthropological satire like the NASA Rhema.

[B]

Dude. Love that we talk about that in a recent episode of Stuff they don't want you to know. Let's not spoil it. It's just. It's a sociological deep dive that will tickle you.

[A]

Satire. We hope. We also know that sombreros are common at the Kentucky Derby.

[B]

Yeah, that threw me a little bit.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, well, it's a type of hat.

[B]

It is a type of hat. But I mean, are we talking like Mexican sombreros or is there. Is that not like a bit culturally appropriative, maybe? I'm.

[A]

I mean, it's more surface area, so you can put more flowery stuff and ribbons on it. These people are walking around with full floral arrangements on their heads.

[B]

I guess it's a good point. Also, they're also walking around being intensely white. Just same.

[A]

They're also appropriating the earlier races in England and France, not to mention.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's a good point. I won't be too pedantic about it. Just that when I saw sombreros, that threw me for a bit of a loop. We also have a term that I've seen. It's one of those Bader Meinhof things in literature. A good bit recently, the idea of a cloche, which can just be described as a. A bunch of things like a tied ribbon under your chin would be a cloche. But it's also here, very specifically a style of accessory.

[A]

Yeah. Like a bucket hat, a pillbox hat. This goes so deep, it could be an episode all its own. We're probably not the ones. We're not the haberdashers you're looking for. We can tell you, for anybody who just asked, wait, I'm a guy. What do I wear at the Kentucky Derby? We can tell you. You can wear a bowler hat once upon a time known as a Derby hat.

[B]

Yeah. The Brown Derby there in Los Angeles. Famous Hollywood hotspot in the golden age of cinema.

[A]

Yeah. You can rock a pork pie here in the States. Over in Louisville, Kentucky, you can wear a fedora for the Kentucky Derby. People won't be mad at you. The custom hats are apparently quite expensive. There's a Kentucky Derby Museum milliner named Jenny Thanistel who told Business Insider that people pay upwards of $500 to $600 US for a custom hat that they only wear once. That seems like a Lot of money for a one use thing. But who are we to judge?

[B]

I have to say something just to correct myself.

[A]

The word cloche.

[B]

I was totally wrong about what it was. I knew I'd seen it. But you know what it also is, Ben? It's the thing that you put over.

[A]

Food for the big reveal.

[B]

The dome. It's called a cloche. I'm sorry. I said it was a bunch of ribbons. And that was its own thing that you already mentioned as well. But a cloche is the head, that dome thing with the little handle that you pull off to reveal the fancy chicken or whatever.

[A]

I love it. And now, as we're wrapping up the history of the Kentucky Derby, which is really a. A history of Americans or Yanks trying to catch up with the British, we could not picture a better ending than giving you some of our favorite kooky racehorse names. I love, love Goat Zapper. I love Potoo.

[B]

Yeah, tell us about that one. I believe there was a fun typo situation that led to that name.

[A]

Yeah. So this is a horse from the 1700s, and his owner asked the kid working at the stables to write the horse's name down. The horse was called Potatoes. That's what he responded to. The kid wrote, wrote P O T, and then wrote the letter O eight times. And the owner loved it. And so now the horse's name is historically Potoo.

[B]

It's like one of those. Like, you're trying to make it hard for people to find you on social media, and so you put a very specific number of O's or I's or whatever. Have we talked about Hoof Hearted?

[A]

I love Hoof Hearted.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Who farted?

[A]

Can you say it five times fast?

[B]

I don't want to. I'm not gonna do it. Okay. Who farted? That's how you say it. It's all about where you put the emphasis. And just to crib a little bit from Britannica here, at first glance, they say Hoof Hearted seemed like a charming and appropriate name for an equine friend. But if you say it five times fast, as you pointed out, then you'll realize it's clever double entendre that made it past Jockey Club censors. And that's a big part of this whole horse naming game. Got another one. ARR. And then I also some more ones I found a minute ago. Let's see if I can find it.

[A]

Ooh, I love Ben Dover. No pun left behind. Sofa King fast. Get it? Sofa space. King Space fast. But say it quickly.

[B]

That's a good old gag there. Like a Sofa King. Stupid. Also, it's fun. We've got no Soup for you.

[A]

Is that a horse name?

[B]

No, it's just. It's just an old gag. It's like I. It's where you, like, write it down and then you ask someone to say it over and over again and then they end up saying, I am so fucked. Fucking stupid. You know, it's like a. It's a gag. It's a goof classic. No soup for you. From the peak times of Seinfeld. We've got bodacious Tatas from 1985.

[A]

Let's see, we've got Anita Bath. We've got Hugh Jass. We've got Chester Drawers.

[B]

Yeah. These are all Bart Simpson prank phone calls. Basically Brangelina from 2005. Peak Brad and Angelina time. What am I, Chopped Liverpool? All one word.

[A]

I like the ones that are like a sentence.

[B]

Oh, 100%. Yeah. From 2008. We have one just. So where's the Beef?

[A]

We have some that are pushing the limits. And I want to give a shout out to Ideal Horse Name, who seems very into this. I was not aware, you guys, that there is literally a horse called. Called Maya Normous Boot.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And we couldn't. We couldn't end today's episode without talking about Panty Raid.

[A]

Panty Raid, of course, yeah. Put some respect on his name. Midnight Charger, Ghost Zapper. We got Max coming in hot.

[B]

All right, so as there always is for these things, there is, of course, a random horse name generator. Love it. Okay, you guys want to hear some of the ones I got? Yeah, let's play the game.

[A]

This is like. This is like when I was reading weird words from that reference word.

[B]

So I'm just gonna say the name. You tell me what the horse looks like or like sounds like. Here are some. We got Majestic Mirage.

[A]

It's clearly a horse.

[B]

Wait, what are you asking, Max? You're asking. It's. Describe the horse.

[A]

Yeah. What. What do you think? Why.

[B]

Why would we name this horse? I couldn't possibly answer that. I have no frame of reference for any name game to horse ratio.

[A]

There's no logic or reason.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To this.

[B]

I think that's the point. How about Thunderbolt Tango? Maybe he's got like a. Yeah, a bit of a stripe.

[A]

That horse has a tank top. It loves the savannah bananas. And it probably does scratch off.

[B]

I'm also picturing it as being the kind of little pony that like, a cowboy might ride, maybe with like a lightning Streak stripe along its side. Now I'm thinking of just race cars. I don't know.

[A]

Last one.

[B]

Let's do one more one. And I got Velvet Nebula. Oh, that's a good one.

[A]

Oh, luscious fur. I would say probably Night Rider.

[B]

Bit of a sheen. Yeah.

[A]

No, yeah, Fun to pet.

[B]

I think I'm going to use that nickname now going forward, but for something very different. What was it again? Velvet. Velvet Nebula. Velvet Nebula, yeah. Because I'm also now thinking of space stuff. I'm thinking of the ink work for NASA for sure.

[A]

First horse on the moon. I am super into it. Hey. Hey, Max, you're going to use Velvet Nebula as your new Persona?

[B]

I think I am. And you can be my Starry Strider. That's really sweet. What can I be? You can be my Moon Shadow Dancer. Oh, I love that. Thank you so much. That's fantastic.

[A]

That's very Van Morrison, right? Marvelous night for a moon dance, doing jazz hands. We don't even have time to get into the traditional cuisine of the Kentucky Derby. But we do have time to thank you so much for tuning in. Friends and neighbors, fellow ridiculous historians, we're going to call it a day. Thank you as always to our super producer, Velvet Nebula. Max, we're going to use your horse name from now on.

[B]

Ben, are you talking, by the way, are you talking about the Hot Brown? There's some funny dishes associated with the. Oh, my goodness. But look it up, y'. All. It's worth it. And if you're familiar with other big, big, big money type legacy events like the Masters, where they've got these famous pimento cheese sandwiches or whatever. Yeah, I've never had one and I grew up there, but yeah, the Hot Brown Classic Kentucky Open Faced Sandwich. It's just turkey and bacon and some sort of gravy, it looks like.

[A]

And big thanks as well to Alex Williams who composed this bangin track. Big thanks to AJ Bahamas Jacobs, Dr. Rachel Big Spinach Lance. Oh, and our new friend, Ross Benish.

[B]

Oh, man, Ross is so cool. Hope to have him back again. Talk 90s. He literally broadened the scope of the show time wise with his very presence. Thanks to you as well, Ben. This was a great. Thanks for bringing this and doing all the research on the Kentucky Derby.

[A]

We'll see you next time. Anita Bath, Dixie Normous, Jack Mehoff, Pat Mine, Willie Stroker, and of course, Buck Naked.

[B]

And we'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or Wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[A]

There'S a vile sickness in Ambus Town. You must excise it. Dig into the deep earth and cut it out. From iheart Podcasts and Grim and Mild from Aaron Manke. This is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater Audio universe starring Jewel State and Ray Wise. Listen to Havoc town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

Sacred Scandal is back, the hit true crime podcast that uncovers hidden truths and shattered faith. For 19 years, Alena Sada was a nun for the Legion of Christ. This season, she's telling her story. When I first joined the Legion of Christ, I felt chosen. I was 19 years old when Marcia Almaser, the leader of the Legionaries, looked me in the eye and told me I had a calling. Surviving meant hiding. Escaping, taping. Took courage. Risking everything to tell her truth. Listen to Sacred Scandal, the Many Secrets of Martial masiel on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's your favorite Jersey girl, Gia Giudice. Welcome to Casual Chaos, where I share my story. This week I'm sitting down with Vanderpump.

[A]

Rules star Sheena Shay. I don't really talk to either of.

[B]

Them, if I'm being honest. There will be an occasional text text one way or the other from me to Ariana. Maybe a happy birthday from Ariana to me. I think the last time I talked to Tom, it was like, congrats on America's Got Talent. This is a combo you don't want to miss. Listen to Casual chaos on the iHeartRadio.

[A]

App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

How serious is youth vaping? Irreversible. Lung damage? Serious. One in 10 kids vape serious, which warrants a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Not the seriously know it all sports dad or the seriously smart podcaster. It requires a serious conversation that is best had by you. No, seriously. The best person to talk to your child about vaping is you. To start the conversation, visit talkaboutvaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung association and the AD Council. Do you want to hear the secrets of psychopaths, Murderers, Sex offenders? In this episode, I offer to tips from them. I'm Dr. Leslie, forensic psychologist. This is a podcast where I cut through the noise with real talk. When you were described to me as a forensic psychologist, I was like, snooze. We ended up talking for hours and.

[A]

I was like, this girl is my best friend.

[B]

Let's talk about safety and strategies to protect yourself and your loved ones. Listen to Intentionally disturbing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.