The First Recorded Christmas Was The Latest Birthday Party Ever

Summary

Ridiculous History Podcast Summary
Episode: The First Recorded Christmas Was The Latest Birthday Party Ever
Release Date: December 24, 2024
Hosts: Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown
Production: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction: The Commercialization and Significance of Christmas

In this festive episode, hosts Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown delve into the intriguing history of Christmas, uncovering the surprising fact that the first recorded celebration of Jesus Christ's birthday occurred approximately 300 years after his death. They set the stage by highlighting the dual nature of Christmas in contemporary society.

Ben (02:08): "Christmas has become an economic necessity for a lot of businesses... it is ultimately a birthday celebration."

Noel (01:46): "Though Jesus has become a little less of the reason for the season here in the United States anyway, in favor of a bit more of a massive commercial... gift-giving blowout."

Early Christian Focus: Death Over Birth

The hosts explore how early Christians primarily commemorated significant events such as the baptism and crucifixion of Jesus, rather than his birth. This focus underscores the theological emphasis on sacrifice and resurrection within the nascent Christian community.

Ben (28:24): "December 25th, as Christmas Day, has only been a federal holiday in the United States since 1870."

Noel (28:59): "For the first 300 years or so of what we would call Christianity as we know it, no one was celebrating Christmas on December 25th."

Adoption of December 25th: Syncretism with Pagan Festivals

Ben and Noel discuss the strategic selection of December 25th for Christmas, suggesting it was influenced by existing pagan festivals such as Saturnalia and Sol Invictus. This syncretism facilitated the integration of Christian celebrations into the Roman societal framework.

Ben (33:21): "They had something called Sol Invictus, the celebration of the unconquered sun... also the Roman festival called Saturnalia."

Noel (29:51): "The origins of Christmas and its December date much more likely lie in the ancient Greco Roman traditions and more kind of pagan celebrations."

Constantine's Influence: Legalization and Christianization of the Roman Empire

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Emperor Constantine the Great's pivotal role in legitimizing and promoting Christianity within the Roman Empire. His endorsement not only ended the persecution of Christians but also paved the way for the establishment of Christian holidays.

Ben (34:13): "Constantine... is the first Roman emperor were to convert to Christianity."

Noel (35:01): "He is the guy who made it legal in the empire to practice Christianity."

The First Recorded Christmas: A Political Move?

The podcast examines the possibility that the establishment of December 25th was a calculated move by Constantine to supplant existing pagan festivals, thereby easing the transition to Christianity and reducing resistance among the populace.

Ben (35:46): "They may have thought choosing this holiday for Christianity would weaken the celebrations of existing pagan schools of thought."

Noel (36:22): "He probably had some other political considerations with picking December 25th as this celebration for sure."

Delayed Celebration and Formalization in the Middle Ages

Despite the early adoption of December 25th, it wasn't until the 9th century that Christmas became a major Christian festival. The hosts highlight how traditions and widespread observance took centuries to embed fully into Christian practice.

Ben (37:33): "Christmas was not a major Christian festival... only started celebrating the birthday of Jesus Christ in like a very big deal way around the 9th century CE."

Noel (37:40): "People only started celebrating the birthday of Jesus Christ in a very big deal way around the 9th century CE."

Cultural Syncretism and Lasting Legacy

Ben and Noel reflect on the enduring legacy of these early decisions, noting how Christmas has evolved into a blend of religious devotion and secular celebration. They touch upon various traditions that have emerged, influenced by both Christian and pagan customs.

Ben (33:53): "Mitra, who is kind of the Pepsi to the Coke here... an ancient deity of covenants, light."

Noel (26:56): "All of these things are just kind of marking the season too. Just kind of hopefully encouraging a spirit of end of the year reflection and generosity."

Conclusion: The "Ridiculous" Late Birthday Party

Wrapping up, the hosts emphasize the ironic and somewhat "ridiculous" nature of celebrating Jesus Christ's birthday centuries after his life, highlighting the complexities of historical traditions shaping modern festivities.

Noel (39:20): "That's sort of our number one criteria for this show. That's not true. We talk about stuff that's not ridiculous all the time. We just try to bring that ridiculous flavor..."

Ben (39:35): "It's kind of ridiculous, right? That's a super late birthday party party."

Closing Remarks

Ben and Noel extend their gratitude to listeners, acknowledging the blend of historical insight and humor that defines their exploration of "ridiculous" moments in history. They tease future episodes and encourage listeners to engage with the rich tapestry of historical anecdotes the podcast offers.

Noel (39:35): "We just try to bring that ridiculous flavor that you know and love even to the heaviest of topics."

Ben (40:56): "For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Ben (02:08): "Christmas has become an economic necessity for a lot of businesses... it is ultimately a birthday celebration."

• Noel (29:51): "The origins of Christmas and its December date much more likely lie in the ancient Greco Roman traditions and more kind of pagan celebrations."

• Ben (35:46): "They may have thought choosing this holiday for Christianity would weaken the celebrations of existing pagan schools of thought."

• Noel (39:20): "That's sort of our number one criteria for this show... a super late birthday party."

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This episode of Ridiculous History masterfully intertwines humor with historical analysis, shedding light on the unexpected timing of Christmas celebrations and their deep-rooted connections to ancient traditions. Whether you're a history buff or simply curious about the quirks of cultural practices, Ben and Noel provide an enlightening and entertaining exploration of one of the world's most celebrated holidays.

Transcript

[Ben]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you as always, so much for tuning in.

[Noel]

Feliz Navidad.

[Ben]

Let's hear it for our number one super producer, Mr. Max Williams.

[Noel]

Huzzah.

[Ben]

There's Mr. Noel Brown. They often call me Ben in these parts. Guys, this is our holiday episode.

[Noel]

It's true. And would you guys believe that I was not born anywhere near Christmas, despite my name? I get that all the time. Just not the case. I'm an August baby. I'm a Leo.

[Ben]

I'll tell you what, the thing that sticks out to me as a fellow Leo and a fan of the human experiment is that we have a bone to pick with history. We have something that we think is a little bit ridiculous. We're going to dive into it here. First and foremost, we hope you and your family are well. Whether or not you celebrate Christmas, we have to tell you, even if you're listening to this thousands or millions of years after the episode publishes, Christmas was is a pretty big deal. It is ultimately a birthday celebration. Sure, you guys have heard it right Here in the United States, people often say Jesus is the reason for the season.

[Noel]

They do say that it's true. And lest you think we're going to be a couple of old grinches trying to steal Christmas, that's not the case at all. Though Jesus has become a little less of the reason for the season here in the United States anyway, in favor of a bit more of a massive commercial, you know, gift giving blowout. But, you know, things change. That's just how it goes.

[Ben]

Yeah. What, what we see here in the US currently, as we record at the very end of 2024, is that Christmas has become an economic necessity for a lot of businesses. It turns out, by the way, this is, this is what we're doing. I love your point. We are not denigrating any spiritual belief system. We are in fact sticking up for this one guy because it turns out that Christmas, the most important birthday in Western discourse, It happened about 300 years after the fact. This is the latest birthday party ever.

[Max]

Today's episode is brought to you by shipt. With Shipt, same day delivery, you get more than just fresh groceries delivered to your door. You get time to do the things you love with the people you love. And one of the things I love is making a cheese plate and sharing it with my friends and playing games. Oh, yes, good game sessions always. And with Shipt, there's a shopper waiting to check off your grocery list. Or make that last minute trip to the store so you can relish the greatest gift of all. More time for the things you love. Download the Shipt app that's S H I P T and let an expert handle the shopping.

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[Ben]

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[Ben]

Oh yeah. Oh geez. Yeah. We're not theologians. We're not priests, pastors, imams, nor rabbis. Wait, let's check with Max. Max, do you have any theological qualifications?

[Noel]

I do not, no.

[Ben]

Okay. All right then. We're all on the same. We're all the same wavelength. Yeah, that's right, Noel. Jesus Christ. That's right, haters. Technically the world's most famous Jew. So take that Nazis.

[Noel]

So likely you've Heard tell of JC There are a lot of stories about him, and you may or may not be amazed to know that he was. What's that guy? There's a meme now. He's a super chill guy.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. Very big Lebowski, right? This guy, this one individual exhibited phenomenal, dare say divine abilities. No, we're talking about a guy who has power over time. Creation, angels, death, destiny, truth, and, of course, churches. True story. One time, one unchill time, he cursed a fig tree. That is a tale the Jedi will not share with you.

[Noel]

Well, and what. Maybe a more popular story of him being unchilled was when he flipped the tables of the money changers in the. In the bazaar, in the market, you know, because he was against the kind of greed and manipulation that they represented. So, you know, a pretty chill, unchill action, if you ask me.

[Ben]

Yeah. Acting with righteousness. Did not care for usurious people.

[Noel]

And whether or not you believe in Jesus's mystical or divine abilities, the fact remains that he was a dude who was believed in by many and absolutely accomplished some pretty fantastic things even outside of the realm of the divine. Right.

[Ben]

Yeah. The individual called Jesus today was, according to the story, born in a town called Bethlehem in a manger, basically a barn, a place you would put livestock. His parents were not the 1%, but the baby was on the way. They couldn't find a better place for his mom, the famous Mary, to give birth, or I should say, no room.

[Noel]

At the end, all that.

[Ben]

Right. One of the famous Marys. And so, as the story goes, a bunch of people showed up right on time for this birth in Bethlehem. And get this. Instead of helping the family get better shelter, everybody who showed up hung out in the barn, and they gave the family a series of what we would call dramatically expensive, often unhelpful gifts. Like, when's the last time you needed some myrrh?

[Noel]

What even is myrrh? I know. It's like a fine oil or lotion, liniment. What is it? It's like a spice. What is murrage, I think. Is it a precious metal?

[Ben]

It's a gum resin.

[Max]

Ew.

[Noel]

Okay, so it's like incense kind of. Right. You would maybe burn it and it would smell good.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. It's medicinal. It's also used for perfume and, as you said, incense.

[Noel]

Got it. So Jesus was a Galilean from Nazareth. And this is a village near Sephorus, one of two major cities there in Galilee, the other being Tiberius. And he was born to essentially a laborer you know, a carpenter, a construction worker, the name of Joseph, and of course the aforementioned famous mary. Somewhere around 6 BCE and shortly before the death of Herod the Great, who was a real pain in the keister if I'm not mistaken. Ben.

[Ben]

Yeah, Noel, let's be honest, history is written by the victors first off. So every story you will read about Herod in the west shows him being a real. Beat me here, Max, a real piece of shit.

[Noel]

But he could change. He could change. He had slicked back hair. He did sloppy stakes, but he could change. No, I don't think he changed. He didn't change. And to jump in here real quick, I didn't write about it because I wasn't able to find good enough sources, but there are some rumors out there that how Herod went was very fitting for our ridiculous world deaths episode.

[Ben]

Yes, I'm glad you mentioned that, Max. Perhaps we will resurrect that idea in the future. No joke left behind hashtag. So look, we could imagine Herod had his own series of things going on, but for our purposes today, he's kind of a bad guy. He's kind of not cool. If you go to the later writing of the disciples of Jesus who is not yet in his childhood called the Christ, we see that Matthew and Luke are, you know, they're part of the Wu Tang of Christ when he becomes known as the Messiah. And they are the ones who tell the world yesterday and today that this carpenter, this itinerant carpenter you mentioned, Noel, Joseph is only legally the father of Jesus. Instead they argue Mary was a physical virgin, meaning she had never had or encountered sexual intimacy. And then boom. She was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit.

[Noel]

The virgin birth. It's a miracle in Bethlehem. And if I'm not mistaken, Ben, all of these folks, the three wise men and the like, followed a shooting star and they heard tell of the coming of this Messiah and they followed the star that led them directly to this cowshed. Pretty interesting stuff. Not to mention the whole virgin birth thing. Of course, if anyone's seen the Last Temptation of Christ, for example, by good old Marty Scorsaza. You know, there are other controversial takes on this story, so plenty of stuff to explore on your own if you want to.

[Ben]

Yeah, and originally there was not a guy doing a kick ass backbeat. There was not a little drummer boy. That comes later in the great game of telephoto.

[Noel]

Yeah, I mean that's to me like, I think a bit of a. Clearly some of this is. Was in the realm of fiction. I think the little drummer boy was almost like just a representation of the Christmas spirit. Right.

[Ben]

I do. I do love it, though. I love the idea of a kid showing up and just doing some drums. So by all accounts, our young individual Jesus was precocious. We do not know a ton about this individual's childhood, including. Can I get a spoiler sound cue his actual birthday. Thank you, Max. He appeared to learn things at a prodigious rate. He was a very quick kid. And ancient Judaism at this time, you usually only have one name. If you need a greater specificity, you would add the father's name or the place of the individual's origin. So, for example, we would say Max of Michigan. We would say Knoll of Augusta, something like that.

[Noel]

And that kind of nomenclature, I guess, goes back way further than this story. I mean, it is an ancient holdover. Instead of having last names, even people were identified from where they were born.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. Or their provenance. That's right. Patrilineal origins. So in his time on earth, in this moment in history, Jesus is called things like Jesus son of Joseph. Makes sense. Jesus of Nazareth. Makes sense. Or Jesus the Nazarene, which is, you know, Jesus the guy from Nazareth.

[Noel]

Yeah, he ultimately becomes the most famous Jesus. So eventually all that stuff could probably just drop off, like Madonna or Cher. Absolutely. And we could do an entire etymology spinoff episode on the nature of translation here. And that great game of etymological and linguistic telephone that we kind of just explored a good bit in that two parter we did on the English Alphabet. But for now, we just need to know. At some point there was a brilliant child of uncertain patrilineal origin for the time, and he wanted to just take everything in he could like a sponge.

[Ben]

And with some help from our good friends at Britannica, we'll give you the following quote about the young Jesus, later called Christ. As a young adult, he went to be baptized by the prophet John the Baptist and shortly thereafter became an itinerant preacher and healer. This goes back to Mark 12:28. Anyway, Britannica did not say anyway. I said anyway. That's editorializing. So Britannica continues. In his mid-30s, Jesus had a short public career lasting perhaps less than one year, during which he attracted considerable attention. Noel, do you want to finish us out with this quote?

[Noel]

Oh, I'd be honored. Britannica is one of my favorites. And boo to ye who say they are not a valid source. Y'all need to get a hobby sometime between 29 and 33 CE, possibly 30 CE. He went to observe Passover in Jerusalem, where his entrance according to the Gospels, was triumphant and confused with eschatological significance. Get your minds out of the gutter. That word doesn't mean. Mean what you think it means. It's like, it's almost like ecclesiastical, right? Or like having like a religious imbued with religious fervor, kind of.

[Ben]

It's the branch of theology or philosophy that is associated with the end of the world or humanity.

[Noel]

Okay, yeah. Relating to death, judgment, and the final destiny of the soul. Okay. This is a new word for me.

[Ben]

Yeah, it's a good one. You don't get to use it all the time, but it is a fun one.

[Noel]

But when you do, you best use it with gusto, bro.

[Ben]

We should accuse people of being eschatological.

[Noel]

They'Re going to think we're calling them shitty.

[Ben]

Oh, that's scatology.

[Noel]

I know, but it really, really sounds similar.

[Ben]

I'm sorry, how different does one one sound make a word?

[Noel]

What a difference a day makes. It's just been.

[Ben]

We're still high off our Alphabet series. So this, this story, this early story will be familiar to any what are called people of the book, practitioners, adherents of Judaism, Islam or Christianity, as you know, and we hope we're not. The first way you learned this. The man called Jesus was apprehended and he sat through a kangaroo court. No one, to be fair, no one in the area had heard of kangaroos by this point.

[Noel]

Yeah. It's a great concept, though, that we explore a little bit on a listener mail of recent times over on stuff they don't want you to know. We had a listener write in about the origins of the concept of a kangaroo court, meaning a court where the outcome is determined ahead of time and it is all but symbolic for the purposes of saying, no, we did it, we did the thing, we gave you a trial. But basically there is a predetermined outcome. And for Jesus, that was crucifixion. After, like, saw two levels of torture and brutalization.

[Ben]

Yeah, it was super gross. It was undeserved. The guy was innocent. And I love the point you're bringing up. He was killed due to political machinations of the Romans at the time. And this is why this death via crucifixion. This is why Christians today will have a cross in homes, on flags on missiles, and perhaps in tattoos on the moon. Yeah, yeah, why not? The disciples of Jesus, now called Christ, they proliferated what they saw as his teachings throughout the World. The problem is that the disciples of Jesus Christ didn't always agree with one another. Yeah, they had differences of opinion. They had one thing, they had one thing they agreed on. They said our guy Jesus Christ did not in fact permanently die.

[Noel]

No, he was in fact resurrected on the third day where he rolled aside the stone on the cave where his body lay in state to the proclamations of he is risen. You know, all of that good stuff. So this was a really big deal for any followers of Jesus after going through such a PTSD inducing situation, having to watch their guy JC just get his absolute snot beaten out of him by that Cat O'NINE tale. Did you guys see the Mel Gibson movie? I never bothered. It just seemed like torture porn.

[Ben]

Yeah, the Passion of the Christ. I actually did. You know, I love a little bit of discordianism. Sure. You know, backwards. When back when DVDs and Blu Rays and physical media were more of a thing, I printed up a series of stickers that just said is tonight the night? And I stuck them on a bunch of Passion of the Christ DVDs.

[Noel]

Is tonight the night that. What will happen, Ben? I don't understand.

[Ben]

Is tonight the night that you watched that?

[Noel]

You watched it? Okay, remember when that. I mean, I'm sorry not to get too sidetracked. When that film came out, it was a golden moment for Christian merch. Remember, there were like little nails, bracelets and things. It all felt a little commercial and weird. I don't know what, I guess it's good for the faith, you know, probably as was Mel Gibson's intent, him being a card carrying Christian and potentially a virulent anti Semite.

[Ben]

Oh, no potential about it.

[Noel]

Yeah, I think he said some things, right?

[Ben]

Yeah. So, all right, here we go. We've got this story. A guy who is holy has transcended the mortal veil. And ever since he.

[Noel]

But he's around though, he exits the tomb and he's there, but then he ascends. Is that the idea that he sort of dematerializes? I've never understood the function of that scene.

[Ben]

Well, he takes on the sins of every other person who has ever lived. And if you obey Jesus Christ and follow his teachings, then he will stick up for you in the face of God. He is God, the argument goes. So it's pretty important to get on his good side, I guess when I'm.

[Noel]

Talking about my confusion around the whole ascending into heaven thing. If I'm not mistaken, there are people in the Bible who saw him before that took place. So I'm just wondering what did that look like when he ascended? I've always just wondered what that might have looked like if the this story were to be true. If there were people that saw him in his corporeal form and then did he just kind of disintegrate and become air and just right, or did he.

[Ben]

Physically fly up into the cosmos?

[Noel]

I always wonder.

[Ben]

Well, people still thought the idea of being forgiven was massively cool, and a great many people, including several of our fellow ridiculous historians, are on board with this idea today. It is spiritually incredibly important. We have your back, folks. We're never here to Yuka Yum. We think it is objectively, regardless of your personal beliefs. We think it is very cool to be lost and to be found and loved once more. That's pretty nuts.

[Noel]

Oh absolutely. And I personally, to quote the band King Missile, think Jesus was way cool and have always been fascinated by him and his acts, whether or not the divine aspects of it turn out to be true. And I'm not here to say one way or the other. And my whole questioning of the Ascension into heaven was not trying to poke fun at all there. I just truly, if that were to have happened, I mean, we do a critical thinking conspiracy show. We talk about the stuff in the spiritual realm all the time. I just wonder what that might have looked like.

[Ben]

Here's the thing. People are still trying to figure out how best to commemorate, to emulate, and to celebrate the life and times of Jesus Christ.

[Max]

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[Ben]

Throughout the Western World and spoiler a lot of the non western world there are a ton of people who celebrate the idea of the birthday of Jesus Christ as both a sacred religious holiday and as a commercial phenomenon for like more than 2,000 years at this point, people around the world have been observing our buddy Jesus's big day with traditions and practices that are both religious and secular in nature. Please check out our earlier episodes on things like the Yule Lads or things like Krampus Old Boot Licker.

[Noel]

No Doorway Sniffer.

[Ben]

Window Liquor.

[Noel]

Window Licker is an Aphex Twin song.

[Ben]

But I think they're all of these.

[Noel]

I think are right somewhat smelling things, licking smelling.

[Ben]

They're doing a thing. Dealing food, Stealing goat milk.

[Noel]

There's a goat sucker.

[Ben]

Noun. It's noun, verb. And there are like 13 of them and they're. They're very weird.

[Noel]

Yeah, it is worth A worth your time to go back and check that one out because I can't remember half of them to save my life, but they're all pretty weird and pretty delightful.

[Ben]

And we name check them regularly. Popular customs in celebration of the birthday of Christ Christmas, they include things like exchanging gifts. Depending on where you are, you might wear a little hat, you might have a tree, you'll probably go to church, you eat a nice dinner, Christmas dinner with friends and family, and then obviously post Coca Cola, you wait for Santa Claus to arrive 100%.

[Noel]

And pretty much all the things you're describing are enjoyed by the SEC and the faithful alike. You know, me not personally, being a Christian, I have a Christmas tree in my house and I love exchanging gifts and I love the customs and the traditions of it all. And try not to make it too grossly commercial, but a lot of these things are just kind of marking the season too. Just kind of hopefully encouraging a spirit of end of the year reflection and generosity.

[Ben]

Yeah, that's great. And this is the thing. All right, so December 25th, as Christmas Day, has only been a federal holiday in the United States since 1870. What? Yeah, yeah, quite recent. Holy cow.

[Noel]

I did know that. I just. I'm still taken aback by it.

[Ben]

It's weird. And also, this is the thing. This is the point of our episode. We hope it's pretty well known by this point. December 25th, as the current Western calendar reckons, was not the actual birthday of Jesus Christ. In fact, if you look at the ridiculous history here, his first acknowledged birthday was 300 years late. You know, you say you like the guy and you take 300 years.

[Noel]

So for the first 300 years or so of what we would call Christianity as we know it, no one was celebrating Christmas on December 25th.

[Ben]

Yeah. The calendar you're using now in the west, the Gregorian calendar system, Shout out Greg. Wasn't created until the late 16th century. And to your point, Noel, for the first 300 years or so of the Christian church's existence, get this, they didn't really care about birthdays. Right.

[Noel]

They were much more death obsessed, it would seem the day on which a saint died. Which makes sense, kind of, because saints are usually often martyred, and so the death is when they become saints. So it kind of does make sense to focus on that rather than the birthday. That would have been considered much more important as it ushered them into the kingdom of heaven.

[Ben]

Right, right. You nailed it. So at the time, the baptism of Jesus Christ received way more attention than his birthday. People would say all Right. He's born on January 6th. That was their idea for quite some time. The first recorded, by which we mean written mention of the celebration of Christmas comes about in 354 CE, more than three centuries after the actual guy was actually born.

[Noel]

100%. And even today in 2024, as we record this, no one can really agree on when Jesus was actually born. One thing that can be pretty well agreed on is that it wasn't on December 25th.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. A lot of folks will tell you that the actual birthday date was somewhere in early spring, which puts it closer to Easter, which is also the holiday commemorating his resurrection, when, as we discussed, the guy somehow rises to heaven.

[Noel]

Yeah, exactly. And this is something that we see all the time. I believe the term being religious syncretism, the origins of Christmas and its December date much more likely lie in the ancient Greco Roman traditions and more kind of pagan celebrations.

[Ben]

Yeah, dude. There are three possible, I would say, competing celebrations for this rough calendrical parking space. The Roman Christian historian, Sextus Julius Africanus.

[Noel]

Killer name. Wow.

[Ben]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, he didn't know. It was hilarious to us.

[Noel]

I don't think it's hilarious. I think it's badass. I want to be Sextus Julius Africanus. I did mic drop right after saying that name.

[Ben]

I believe in you, man. I got your. I got your six on that. So this guy traces the conception of Jesus, later called Christ, to March 25th. By the way, that's the same date this guy argued the world itself was created. Yeah, I know, I know, I know, I know.

[Noel]

No, I was just laughing at a word that I just clocked a little further down in the outline.

[Ben]

Oh, Shapoopi.

[Noel]

Yeah, Shapoopi. That's just fun to say and fun. And I saw it and I just immediately couldn't help but giggle. But generally, if you're looking for another guy to pin this whole reason for the season on, you're going to have to look at a guy named Dionysus Exeges.

[Ben]

Do we just have not cool names?

[Noel]

I think that's true, Ben. I think names have gotten less cool.

[Ben]

We need cooler names.

[Noel]

I don't think that's a hot take. I think names have gotten less cool over time. But Dionysus Exegesis was in fact a 6th century monk who was the first to date all of history from December 21st. Ever watched a period piece and you've got some fancy lads talking about the year of our Lord? Well, here you go.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. Other traditions disagreed with old exeges. And they said, maybe it was mid November, maybe it was March. It is, as we noted earlier, a real Shapoopi. Just please look that word up and give our regards to family.

[Noel]

Guys, isn't shapoopi also a thing from Seinfeld? I know it's a family guy thing and you've got a great clip here and you should look that up. But I swear it was something. Maybe it was shmoopy. I think I'm thinking of shmoopy. Shapoopi is different, but shmoopy is also fun. So, hey, travel with us back in time to the Roman Empire during what they had no idea was going to be referred to historically as the third century ce.

[Ben]

Yeah, it was just that day for them.

[Noel]

That's right.

[Ben]

Spoiler. Rome as an empire was not immediately on board with this whole Jesus thing. They were, first off, super anti Semitic. And second, they had a bunch of other competing holidays. They're an empire. So there was something called Sol Invictus, the celebration of the unconquered sun, which occurred around the same time. This was a very busy day as holidays go because it marked the natural passage of the seasons, the return of longer days after the winter solstice. Also, additionally, the Roman Empire had a festival called the Saturnalia. And folks, if you can guess what people did back then during Saturnalia, we're just going to give you the truth. They had big parties, they ate a lot of family meals, and they exchanged gifts with each other. Other.

[Noel]

What, no orgies?

[Ben]

Well, you know, for a treat.

[Noel]

Okay, fair enough. It was also the birthday of the Indo European deity Mithra, God of light, Lord of light. It's very Game of Thrones. The Red. The red woman.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. Mitra, who is kind of the Pepsi to the Coke here. An ancient deity of covenants, light, as you said, no oaths, justice, the sun, and friendship.

[Noel]

The Roman soldiers were a big fan.

[Ben]

Yes. Yeah, they kind of were. The way that kids might wear no Fear T shirts in the 1990s.

[Noel]

Maybe a little more intense than that, but I'm with you, Ben. No question. But the question does become, what's the deal with the first birthday? Why December 25th at all?

[Ben]

Oh, yeah. To understand this, we have to introduce a guy named Constantine. His full name, if he gets in trouble, is Flavius Valerius Constantinus. Also called himself Constantine 1. Or in a burst of humility, Constantine the Great. Now, this guy was a real, you know, he's like Taylor Swift. He's a real up and comer in Rome. He rules the place from 306ce to 337. He is the first Roman emperor were to convert to Christianity.

[Noel]

Huge deal. Big historical, more than footnote. I mean, this is really what led to the proliferation of Christianity and some of the later schisms that would come out of that.

[Ben]

Yeah, he plays a pivotal role in elevating the status of Christianity in Rome because before Constantine, people of the Christian faith. Faith were getting treated like trash. He is the guy who made it legal in the empire to practice Christianity. Before him it was illegal. It was a crime to be Christian. He also said, let's stop persecuting the Christians on a day to day basis. This is called the Constantinian shift. And this initiated, to your point, the Christianization of the Roman Empire. Right. Leading to, you know, things like the Vatican 100%.

[Noel]

Yeah. I mean, Rome became the seat of the religion, you know, for the entire world.

[Ben]

And back in 336ce, again, centuries after this guy, the church of Rome began formally celebrating Christmas on December 25th. Now we have to pause verse second because we're making Constantine sound like a super duper hero, but he probably had some other political considerations with picking December 25th as this celebration for sure.

[Noel]

And it was also not to say that his hands weren't covered in blood from like other stuff. Dude had a reputation in other ways as being, you know, just as ruthless as many other people in his position.

[Ben]

Yeah, name one good emperor. Exactly. Then or now. There's a lot of speculation that this guy and his administration purposely chose December 25th not because they thought it was the shout out to our pal Lauren Vogelbaum, the actual facts, birth date of Jesus Christ. The argument is that they may have thought. Thought choosing this holiday for Christianity would weaken the celebrations of existing pagan schools of thought. Things like Saturnalia occurring around the same time. The rollout was not perfect, by the way. The eastern area of the empire, they were still on this January 6th thing and it took like 50 years minimum to get them on board with December 21st.

[Noel]

Well, people are still calling X Twitter to this day. So big changes sometimes take time to be fully adopted.

[Ben]

Yeah, and even then, after the adoption of this idea, Christmas was not a major Christian festival, which we know sounds very strange. People only started celebrating the birthday of Jesus Christ in like a very big deal way around the 9th century CE, almost a thousand years after the crucifixion. I'd like to quote Cheech Marin from Ghostbusters where he says, better late than never.

[Noel]

Cheech Marin's in Ghostbusters.

[Ben]

Cheech Marin is in Ghostbusters.

[Noel]

Does he just have, like, a walk on? I guess. I'm totally blanking on this.

[Ben]

He's the guy who sees the Titanic arriving when all the ghosts come back.

[Noel]

Okay, so it's just a quick pop. Yeah.

[Ben]

He's the guy who says, better late than never.

[Noel]

Yeah, no, I believe you. That's just. I've never clocked that big, big, big Cheech fan. Actually got a crappy guitar signed by him.

[Ben]

What kind of guitar?

[Noel]

It's just like a. Like a cheap kind of Fender Strat that would come in, like, a strap pack you might get a kid for Christmas. But it's awesome. It's signed by both Cheech and Chong. And I look forward to one day upgrading some of the parts on it so I can actually play it.

[Ben]

Oh, yeah. Tommy's cool, man. So we. We want to keep this brief. We know everybo. A ton of stuff happening in 2025. We know you have so many loved ones to get to. Whether or not you celebrate the reason for the season on December 25th. We're just so happy you're here. And this is a great time of reflection. We do have to point out, of course, it's kind of ridiculous, right? That's a super late birthday party party.

[Noel]

Oh, for sure. We wouldn't have covered it if it wasn't ridiculous. That's sort of our number one criteria for this show. That's not true. We talk about stuff that's not ridiculous all the time. We just try to bring that ridiculous flavor that you know and love even to the heaviest of topics.

[Ben]

And big, big thanks to our own Wise men super producer, Mr. Max Williams. Noel Brown, first of his name.

[Noel]

Yeah, I think that. Yeah. Can I say that as far as.

[Ben]

Can you just add, like, a Roman one or Roman I at the end of your name?

[Noel]

Yeah, I'll do that moving forward. It's a new year. Why not? I'll try it on for size.

[Ben]

Nice. Nice. Thanks also to our composer, Mr. Alex Williams.

[Noel]

Have we thanked his brother, Max Williams?

[Ben]

Yeah, let's thank him twice.

[Noel]

Yes. And also Christopher Haciotes and Eve's Jeffcoats, both here in Christmas spirit.

[Ben]

Aj, Bahamas. Jake, Rachel, Big Spinach, Lance, Elizabeth and Zarid, our rude dudes over at Ridiculous Crime.

[Noel]

But not to mention our very own Ebenezer Scrooge figure, Jonathan Strickland, the quizzer, who I think we're gonna hear from soon, if we haven't already. Have we already?

[Ben]

No, Max is nodding.

[Noel]

It's coming. We got a hard nod from Max.

[Ben]

Jonathan, I know you called me a smart ass in that email.

[Noel]

I saw it. I saw it. We'll see you next time folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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[Max]

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