The Grim Christmas Folklore of Johnny Ace, with Jake Brennan

Summary

Ridiculous History: The Grim Christmas Folklore of Johnny Ace (with Jake Brennan)

Podcast: Ridiculous History by iHeartPodcasts
Episode Date: December 16, 2025
Guests: Jake Brennan (Disgraceland podcast), Hosts Ben Bowlin, Noel Brown, Max Williams
Theme: The haunting and myth-laden story of Johnny Ace, the R&B star whose tragic death became the stuff of music folklore and Christmas legend.

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Episode Overview

The hosts invite music storyteller and "Disgraceland" creator Jake Brennan to unravel the life, legend, and dark legacy of Johnny Ace — an influential Memphis R&B musician whose mysterious death on Christmas Day, 1954, has inspired decades of rumor and myth. As the conversation unfolds, the trio peels back the mythology surrounding Johnny Ace’s demise, exposes the racial undercurrents of music folklore, and explores how urban legends are birthed from both tragedy and the machinations of the music industry. It’s a tale as much about the stories we tell as the grim, ridiculously true events that underpin them.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Johnny Ace: Who Was He? [06:29]

• Description & Place in History:

  • Jake Brennan describes Johnny Ace as a cool, enigmatic figure on the Memphis R&B scene just before Elvis's rise ("Johnny Ace... young dude in Memphis who was just the coolest guy. And Elvis and many others loved him." - Jake, 07:27).
  • Started as a pianist for B.B. King's band, the Beale Streeters, before breaking out as a solo act and landing R&B chart hits.
  • Seen as a kind of local legend and role model for Elvis and other Memphis musicians.

• The Mythic Cool:

  • Discussion on how Johnny Ace embodied a level of cool almost supernatural in its effortless charisma—akin to Tom Waits, Iggy Pop, and David Bowie in their prime.

2. Myth-Busting: The Russian Roulette Story [12:41]

• Prevailing Legend:

  • The widespread belief that Johnny Ace died playing Russian roulette backstage on Christmas Day, 1954 ("The myth is, of course, he died playing Russian roulette, which he did not." - Jake, 27:13).
  • Jake was inspired to dig into this while researching for his "Disgraceland" podcast, eventually finding the truth to be more nuanced.

• Reality vs. Folklore:

  • The so-called “Russian roulette” death was more a combination of drunken, reckless gunplay than the cinematic, multi-player death game ("He eventually does in front of Big Mama Thornton, and Johnny Ace shoot himself and dies backstage." – Jake, 27:12).
  • No actual “game”—his friends (including singer Big Mama Thornton) supposedly even begged him to stop.
  • Media sensationalized the tragedy, helping cement mythical status and giving his posthumously released single a tragic allure.

3. The Role of Don Robey: Industry Machinations & Conspiracy Theories [27:55]

• Robey’s Profile:

  • Label owner, club boss, ruthless operator described as a “proto Suge Knight” of early R&B (Jake, 27:55).
  • Controlled Johnny Ace’s record label, venues, bookings, etc. ("Don Roby was a larger than life, violent, exploitative, black, Jewish gangster. From Houston..." - Jake, 28:16).
  • Sought a “crossover” hit on the pop charts (i.e., white audiences), heavily invested in Johnny Ace’s potential.

• Conspiracy Theories:

  • Rumors that Robey (either through Big Mama Thornton or otherwise) orchestrated Johnny’s death to drive record sales, noting parallels to Hank Williams's posthumous chart success.
  • Jake dismisses the most outlandish versions but acknowledges how such narratives gain traction ("The more elaborate the conspiracy, the less likely such a conspiracy was required to make the thing happen." - Max, 36:44).

• Who Profited?:

  • Robey (and later his estate) raked in the royalties as Johnny’s tragic myth grew; Johnny Ace’s family got nothing ("The sad irony is that Johnny Ace's family received... nothing, zip, zilch." - Ben, 39:34).

4. Folklore, Racial Tropes, & the Birth of Myths [13:43, 16:25]

• Racialized Myths:

  • Discussion of longstanding racist tropes in blues/rock history—e.g., the “sold his soul to the devil” myth about Robert Johnson as a way for white audiences to “explain” Black virtuosity ("That's kind of a racist explanation of... how you got so good...the only way...they couldn't explain his talent" – Jake, 14:00).
  • The conversation expands into examples of other musicians (Django Reinhardt, Tony Iommi) who didn't face such accusations despite extraordinary ability.

• Media’s Role:

  • Press coverage shapes the narrative, often in ways that benefit those in power and further distort the real story ("The press...pick up the story and they leave out half the facts. And literally, the headlines are that he died playing Russian roulette." - Jake, 37:06).

5. Intertwined Legacies: Elvis Presley & "Pledging My Love" [38:30]

• Postmortem Successes:
  • After Johnny’s death, his single “Pledging My Love” climbs the charts ("His song…starts to go up the charts…Don Roby’s not going to call anyone up…to correct the record." - Jake, 37:51).
  • Years later, Elvis, still fascinated by Ace, records the same song for his final studio album (“Moody Blue”)—then dies himself.
  • Both deaths coincide with commercial booms, further entrenching their stories in music folklore.

6. Grief, Folklore, and Holiday Melancholy [43:05]

• Grief as a Through-Line:
  • Jake relates the Johnny Ace/Elvis connection back to his writing on grief’s pervasive impact throughout music history, especially around the holidays.
  • Picture painted of Elvis, later in life, mourning at Christmas and connecting with Johnny’s melancholy ("I could see him at that time…thinking about his brother and...that song Pledging My Love." - Jake, 43:05).

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Notable Quotes

• On Johnny Ace’s reputation:

  • “There’s a level of cool that’s like extraterrestrial...That’s what Johnny Ace was.” – Jake Brennan [07:27]

• On the allure of myth-busting:

  • “90% of people think it’s one thing, but it’s actually something else. So we’re in that historical myth-busting phase, which is a very cool spot.” – Jake Brennan [03:13]

• On the Russian roulette legend:

  • “I first heard the myth...that Johnny Ace, this great R&B singer...died at the age of 25 years old, tragically from playing Russian roulette. Motherf—er didn’t die from Russian roulette...that's not at all what happened.” – Jake Brennan [09:36, 12:41]

• On the racialized “deal with the devil” trope:

  • “They couldn’t explain his talent...so the trope emerged that the only way he could have gotten so good was by selling his soul to the devil.” – Jake Brennan [14:01]

• On Don Robey’s parallel to industry figures:

  • “Don Roby was a proto Suge Knight. Don Roby was to R&B what Al Capone was to the Chicago Mafia.” – Jake Brennan [27:55]

• On industry exploitation:

  • “The sad irony is that Johnny Ace's family received...nothing, zip, zilch.” – Ben Bowlin [39:34]

• On perpetual folklore:

  • “Anytime someone achieves a certain threshold of fame, there will inevitably be folklore about them. We agree with that.” – Ben Bowlin [46:28]

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Important Timestamps

• Johnny Ace Backstory & Mythic Cool: [06:29–08:17]
• Introduction to the Russian Roulette Myth: [12:41–13:43]
• Jake’s Myth-Busting Insights: [13:43–15:14]
• Discussion of Racial Myths and Robert Johnson: [16:25–17:38]
• Explaining Russian Roulette Mechanics: [21:00–22:40]
• The Events of Christmas 1954 & What Really Happened: [23:22–27:13]
• Industry, Don Robey, and Conspiracy Theories: [27:55–36:44]
• The Role of Media in Spreading the Myth: [37:06–37:51]
• Elvis’s Connection & “Pledging My Love”: [38:30–40:52]
• Folklore, Funeral, and Robey’s Profits: [41:26–41:49]
• Reflections on Grief and Holiday Melancholy: [43:05–43:57]
• Closing, Folklore Creation, and Calls to Action: [46:28–47:13]

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Memorable Moments

• Jake’s “Myth-Busting” Carnegie Hall Story: How he ended up on stage at Carnegie Hall without practicing, via Patti Smith’s birthday celebration. [14:24–15:07]
• Tales of Don Robey’s Intimidation: The image of him lugging club earnings and a shotgun through Houston. [28:34–29:28]
• Elvis covering Johnny Ace’s song, then dying soon after, with Robey’s estate collecting the royalties: Darkly poetic symmetry. [38:30–39:34]
• Playful banter about Christmas melancholy, fruitcake, and typewriters (Tom Hanks): Keeps the tone in Ridiculous History’s signature, irreverent style.

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Tone & Style

The conversation is simultaneously scholarly and playful, moving quickly between musicology, industry intrigue, emotional reflection, and on-brand, tongue-in-cheek asides. Jake Brennan delivers meticulously researched history with the casual swagger of someone who grew up loving the legends he studies, while the hosts punctuate with humor and warmth.

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Final Thoughts

The episode deftly weaves together the threads of music history, the machinery of fame, and the evolution of cultural mythologies—centering Johnny Ace as both cautionary tale and misunderstood legend. The hosts and Jake invite listeners to question not just the facts behind the stories they know, but why the stories themselves endure.

Listen for:

• A crash course in how musical myths are born—and why some persist
• A vivid, bittersweet dose of rock’n’roll holiday folklore
• Riotous banter, piercing myth-busting, and an exploration of grief’s place in music storytelling

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Recommended for anyone who loves their history absurd, their music tragic, and their legends larger than life.

Transcript

[Ben Bolan]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartradio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you as always, so much for joining us. We've got none other than the man, the myth, the legend, Our super producer, Mr. Max Masshole Williams, joining us.

[Max Williams]

Are you a mask guy? You're. You're.

[Jake Brennan]

He's a Michigan guy.

[Max Williams]

You're a Michigan.

[Jake Brennan]

I'm a Michigander out the Michigan.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. Yeah. That's Mr. Noel Brown over there on the ones and twos.

[Max Williams]

I'm not from anywhere.

[Ben Bolan]

I don't.

[Max Williams]

I don't claim any. Any.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. A young German boy.

[Max Williams]

Oh, that's true. I am a. No, I was once a young German German boy.

[Ben Bolan]

I am legally required to disclose that I am called Ben Bolan in this world. And no, we had a fascinating conversation very many years ago when we were just absolutely fanboying about this crazy guy who is really fascinated. An author, a podcaster, I would say a thought leader, and one of the nicest people I've ever met from Massachusetts.

[Max Williams]

Are you talking about Johnny Ace? No, you're not.

[Ben Bolan]

Yet you're not.

[Max Williams]

You're talking about Jake Brennan.

[Ben Bolan]

None other than that.

[Jake Brennan]

You guys are too kind.

[Max Williams]

Well, you may have heard Jake unleashing earlier when we were talking that that's breaking the fourth wall, which wal.

[Ben Bolan]

The fourth wall. It is the fourth wall if you're talking to the audience.

[Max Williams]

That's right.

[Ben Bolan]

Jake Britton is here with us right now, coming to us live and direct. Jake, how you doing?

[Jake Brennan]

I'm fantastic. I'm stoked to be talking to you guys. Excited to be talking ridiculous music history. Fan of your show. And anytime I can talk about music with some informed lads, I'm happy. So we're right in my sweet spot this afternoon.

[Max Williams]

We're nothing if not informed lads. And as we talked about off mic, Ben is not only the king of. He's also the king of intros, and he really sets you up beautifully. Our buddy Jake is an incredible podcaster with the Disgraceland podcast and various music documentary podcasts that sort of have a take a true crime fusion with music history approach. And it's incredible video content that you may have seen go viral on the interwebs. And again, also an author. So we're super stoked to have you with us, Jake. Indeed. To talk about some ridiculous music history. This one's a little dark. It's one that maybe would also feel right at home on our sister podcast. Stuff they don't want you to know because we're talking about a bit of a history mystery involving a very influential musician by the name of Johnny Ace.

[Jake Brennan]

I've said multiple times, Johnny Ace, one of a kind. And I love this. I love the conversation because it fits in your wheelhouse. Guys, it's kind of like this story. 90% of people think it's one thing, but it's actually something else. So we're in that historical myth busting phase, which is a very cool spot to be this is an iHeart podcast.

[Ben Bolan]

Guaranteed Human this episode of Ridiculous History is brought to you in part by American Public University.

[Max Williams]

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[Ben Bolan]

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[Ben Bolan]

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[Max Williams]

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[Ben Bolan]

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[Ben Bolan]

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[Ben Bolan]

Now, Jake, you're a legendary. I would call you a journalist at this point as well as a storyteller. So can you introduce us for anyone who is unfamiliar to, to this character? Johnny?

[Jake Brennan]

Sure. Johnny Ace, a Memphis musician sort of in the years just prior to Elvis breaking out as a. First a regional star in the south and then as a global superstar. So Johnny Ace, look at it this way. Like, Elvis is 16 years old and he's. He's lurking around Memphis, these clubs. He's kind of like looking into windows to the black clubs to watch Ike.

[Max Williams]

Turner and stealing all their moves.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah, exactly. And B.B. king and, and Johnny A.C. is one of these guys. Johnny Ace was at first the piano player in B.B. king's. B.B. king's band called the Beale Streeters before B.B. king became huge. And of course, if you saw the Elvis movie, they. They get into the relationship between Elvis and B.B. king. But Johnny Ace was like, you know, there's. There's cool musicians or there's cool people and then there's just like, cool. There's a level of cool that's like extraterrestrial.

[Ben Bolan]

Like, like even like, like Tom Waits.

[Max Williams]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jake Brennan]

You nailed it. Like, like how, how David obsessed with Iggy Pops cool. Like that's, that's what Johnny Ace was. He was just this like, young dude in Memphis who was just the coolest guy. And Elvis and many others loved him. And after, you know, Johnny Ace is in PB King's band, he starts a solo career after that and he starts to have some, some hits on the R B charts under his own name, Johnny Ace.

[Max Williams]

And there's a certain kind of cool that you're describing that also comes along with a little crazy.

[Jake Brennan]

Yes.

[Max Williams]

If I'm not mistaken. I mean, I think I'm not mistaken. We've observed it in Folks. Do you like mentioned with Iggy Pop. Bowie certainly had his crazy days that he got past, you know, God rest his soul, but where he was just sustaining on milk and red peppers and cocaine while watching like, Nazi propaganda videos in his murder mansion.

[Ben Bolan]

You get in situations. Is it crazy to be cool, or is it cool to be crazy? That seems like a thesis statement we're going to be following along with. Right. So, Jake, what first drew you to the story of this up and coming cool, crazy musician Johnny Ace?

[Max Williams]

The name to go along with it, too.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah, the name is Radh.

[Max Williams]

Is that a Christian name? Do we know this?

[Jake Brennan]

I doubt it.

[Max Williams]

Okay, fair, Fair.

[Ben Bolan]

Okay. Johnny Asowitz. Excuse me. All right, so give us the provenance, the origin story, if you may.

[Jake Brennan]

Well, I first, I first heard the myth, which is what most people hear. And there's a great book by, I believe, Grail Marcus. And it has all sort of these short little. It's an anthology book much like my own, but it's way better. It's all about these sort of unknown hellraisers from the early rock and roll and R and B days. And there's a.

[Max Williams]

And I have to be honest, I was not aware of Johnny Ace at all before you texted us about this topic. And I do know the Elvis song, but kind of only in passing. So I really am excited to dig into more of this history. But you mention the kind of provenance or the legend, the myth behind this sort of inciting event that caused us.

[Jake Brennan]

To talk about this guy today.

[Ben Bolan]

I'm just gonna. Jake, I'm gonna interrupt you to brag about you, Noel. I'm just gonna pile on. Jake has a book out pretty recently called Disgraceland. Musicians Getting Away With Murder and Behaving Very Badly. I did read it. I do think it's. Beat me here, Max. I think it's amazing.

[Jake Brennan]

Wow. Very well done. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. There's a through line in that book thematically about grief, which is a big part of the Graham Parsons chapter in that book and the two Elvis chapters. And Elvis was, I believe, perpetually. Others believe this as well, sort of perpetually grieving this loss. Lost like a phantom limb, which was the death of his. Of his twin brother who died at childbirth. And a lot of people think, you know, if they're going to analyze him, armchair psychologist, that that's sort of why he was so excessive. He was trying to compensate for this thing. And it. It plays into this story somewhat as well. You know, it's like. You guys know what it's like because you're so.

[Ben Bolan]

You're.

[Jake Brennan]

You're so. You're so music and culture conscious. You know, like, you come up in a. In a scene and you have. I'm. I'm talking about from Elvis's perspective. And they're sort of like cool guys in your local. Local scene, whatever it is, if it's music or if it's acting or if it's podcasting. And you're kind of. You just. You just. I mean, honestly. No, it was a lot like the. The whole, like, stuff you should know crew at iHeart. When I first got into podcasting, I was like, I want these guys to think I'm cool.

[Ben Bolan]

Me. Let me put my hands by the window, you know, while you guys are playing. Yeah, I know piano.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah, well.

[Max Williams]

And also, I mean, you know, it's people you look up to. It's people that you want to hear. It's the only way you get those stories, and it's the only real way to learn about a world like that, whether it be podcasting or blues music. And those things are definitely equivalent. And I. And you could fight me on that. I will die on that hill. They are the same. Yes, but, no. These people are hugely important to the oral tradition and to kind of carrying on a legacy and a through line, through a genre of music or a scene, much like you're talking about there in Memphis, which is a storied music scene.

[Jake Brennan]

Right. And so that's who Johnny Ace was to Elvis Presley. He was the cool kid on the block and kind of obscure, and he remained that way even in his passing while Elvis was still alive. And the inciting incident, the myth, if you will, is this story. And I'm going to get back to answering your question, Ben. This story that Johnny Ace, this great R B singer who died at the age of 25 years old, tragically from playing Russian roulette. So I kind of heard that in passing as a young man. And then when I started the Disgraceland podcast and I'm looking for these sort of music and true crime stories that I can tell, this pops up on the radar and I start researching it, and I'm like, motherf. Er didn't die from Russian Roulette. Oh, man, that's not at all what happened. I mean, it kind of is part of the story, but that's not what happened.

[Ben Bolan]

It's a myth, though, right?

[Jake Brennan]

It is a myth, and this is my fate. These are my favorite types of stories. When you can really. When you can do a podcast episode, there's a couple other big ones that are just like this. Like, Mama Cass Elliott from the Mamas and Papas did not die. She did not die from choking on a ham sandwich. You know, Michael Hutchins from INXS did not die. From autoerotic asphyxiation.

[Ben Bolan]

And it was not Robert Johnson, but Bobby Johnson.

[Jake Brennan]

Tommy Johnson. Tommy Johnson.

[Ben Bolan]

Tommy Johnson. Yeah, I'm actually good at this.

[Jake Brennan]

I'm actually. My head is fully in the Robert Johnson thing right now because I'm working on a documentary about how this is kind of the take on my Robert Johnson episode that, okay, Robert Johnson did not sell his soul to the devil. Robert Johnson was the devil.

[Max Williams]

Hell, yeah.

[Ben Bolan]

What if you actually.

[Max Williams]

I support that fully.

[Jake Brennan]

If you get into how Robert Johnson behaved and what he did and what he said about God and how he spoke about faithful people and people who had faith around his. His friends stopped hanging around with him because they were so like, this guy's on a level.

[Max Williams]

He got too spooky.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah, he got two. And then the whole trope of selling your soul to the devil, I mean, that's kind of a grail. Marcus makes the point that that's kind of a racist explanation of being how.

[Max Williams]

You got so good.

[Jake Brennan]

The only way. Exactly. Of white journals possible. Exactly. They couldn't. They couldn't explain his talent, which. The guy sounds like he's playing guitar with three hands. It's incredible.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. Maybe he just. What's the old joke? How do I get to Broadway? Says a tourist in New York. Local says, I think practice Carnegie hall.

[Max Williams]

But Broadway works as well.

[Jake Brennan]

Both of those.

[Max Williams]

You got to practice.

[Jake Brennan]

Can I tell you a quick myth busting story about that? How do you get to Carnegie hall for practice? So I've actually played Carnegie hall and I didn't practice at all. A friend of mine was part of Patti Smith's birthday party as a performer. My friend Adam from Low Cut Connie, about four or five years ago at Carnegie Hall. And Patty gets out there and she's doing Gloria. And I'm sidestage with all these musicians, and all these musicians, Josh Ritter and David Johansson, they just start walking out on stage to sing backups. And I'm like, I just kind of got caught up with them all and.

[Max Williams]

I walked out on stage. That's how you do it.

[Jake Brennan]

And the next day, there's a picture of me in Rolling Stone behind Patti Smith in Carnegie Hall.

[Ben Bolan]

That's amazing. So one thing we love about a chorus is everyone can sing along, hopefully. Exactly.

[Jake Brennan]

Yes.

[Ben Bolan]

And again, Tom Waits, if you're listening, you are part of Americana, and we'd love for you to hang out with Jake on his show. Jake, the boys and I were very close to getting Tom Waits to do a show with us. True story. He only accepts payments in 1957 used Chevy car parts.

[Max Williams]

It's true. And also, you know, pirate doubloons.

[Jake Brennan]

I literally, I literally can't tell if you're with me or not.

[Max Williams]

I can't either, Jake. And I usually can't. And that's just the way of the world.

[Jake Brennan]

Like, I would believe that from Tom Waits.

[Max Williams]

Like, I would believe that a million percent.

[Ben Bolan]

Man.

[Max Williams]

I love that. What a good lo fi trick he used to do. And he would just have like, what is it? Like chalk dust, like on the stage. And he's just stomping in the chalk dust and it just looks like he's just kicking up dust clouds. Coolest thing. What a cool guy. I'd love to go back really quickly to your point about the racist trope or the inherent racist trope of like selling your soul to the devil. Because nobody accused Django Reinhardt of selling his soul to the devil. And that guy played guitar with two fingers.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. So I'm just the othering.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah, yeah. Or Tony Iommi from Black Sabbath, who literally doesn't have fingertips and has somehow, somehow figured out how to create an entire genre called heavy metal. No one accused him of selling his soul to the devil either. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't think it's one of these things that was like purposefully racist or whatever. It's just like, it just happened. And it's interesting when you actually unpack it. And that trope, it goes back like me and the devil walking or whatever the lyric is from Robert Johnson. It actually goes back to the sort of blackface minstrel lyrics that back then those songs were considered pop music. So Robert Johnson would play those. So the reality is he got a lot of that devil imagery in his lyrics from white dudes in blackface who were, who were co opting black music from the slave era. You know what I'm saying?

[Max Williams]

So it's just so weird for him to be revving to reverse cover the songs that were co opting this imagined version of his legacy or his, you know, his people. That's really wild.

[Ben Bolan]

Fascinating. Mirrors Upon Mirrors Game of Telephone this episode of Ridiculous History is brought to you in part by American Public University.

[Max Williams]

You're juggling a lot. Full time job, side Hustle, maybe a family.

[Ben Bolan]

And now you're thinking about grad school.

[Max Williams]

That's not crazy, that's ambitious.

[Ben Bolan]

At American Public University, they respect the hustle and they're built for it.

[Max Williams]

Their flexible online master's programs are made for real life because big dreams deserve.

[Ben Bolan]

A real path learn more about APU's 40 plus career relevant master's degrees and certificates at Apu Apus.

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Everybody knows Shaq, but off camera, he's just a regular guy.

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[Max Williams]

This information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company.

[Ben Bolan]

As we continue. Jake Noll. I believe we need to explain just briefly what we mean by Russian roulette, which is itself also mythologized, for sure.

[Max Williams]

And it's also one of those things where. Yeah, it's exactly. There's a lot of Russian. There's a whole movie about it where there's, like, a Russian roulette club. I forget what it's called, but it's like a Eastern European art film. And it's about this, like, fight club where people, like, play Russian roulette for whatever, as high stakes as you could possibly have. So. Yes, do tell.

[Jake Brennan]

Jake.

[Max Williams]

Yeah, give us a little bit about Russian.

[Ben Bolan]

What is it?

[Jake Brennan]

Well, if you would Both refer to the 32 snub nodes I sent to both of you.

[Max Williams]

Right.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Jake Brennan]

Load both of those up. It's a utility gun. Yeah, There you go. And then. Yeah, just there's one bullet in the. In one bullet in the. In the. What do they call it, the chamber there or the barrel? I don't even know. Just, you know, make that go whirly, whirl.

[Max Williams]

And then.

[Jake Brennan]

And then. I got it.

[Sleep Apnea Ad Voice]

Put it to your.

[Jake Brennan]

Put it here. Yep, there you go. There you go. Now we don't know where the bullet is. There's.

[Max Williams]

You gotta do the hard click and close it, though. That's the most badass move, is when you spin it.

[Ben Bolan]

Hang on, hang on, hang on.

[Jake Brennan]

Okay, There you go. So now there's six options. There's six places that bullet might be. It's only going to be in one. You have a one in six chance of shooting yourself in the head if you put that gun, that.32 snub nose to your temple and pull the trigger. Now, I know we're not actually going to reenact that scene from Deer Hunter right here, as much as I kind of want to, but this is what Johnny Ace would do for fun in addition to drinking quarts of vodka.

[Ben Bolan]

No way.

[Jake Brennan]

This was his sort of, like, parlor trick that he would whip out backstage to sort of entertain his friends.

[Max Williams]

He was just quite a fan of just waving his piece around in general. And when I say his piece, I mean his pistol.

[Jake Brennan]

Oh, we know what you meant, though. We know.

[Max Williams]

Thank you.

[Ben Bolan]

Thank you. So, okay, so this is different from Australian roulette, which, as we know, is the thing where you aim the gun at your lower parts. Yeah, I'm doing geography jokes. They're not all gonna land.

[Max Williams]

Gotta land. I thought that was real too.

[Ben Bolan]

So one out of six. And this guy, John Marshall Alexander, right?

[Jake Brennan]

Full name for Johnny Ace. Yeah, if you say so. But I have it somewhere. But yeah, that makes sense.

[Ben Bolan]

Okay, so Johnny Ace were going by this guy. This guy would literally Jake backstage, he would put a gun to his head.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Bolan]

Do the spin and the click.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah. So this is a Christmas story because this.

[Max Williams]

Oh, we forgot to mention. This is our holiday episode.

[Ben Bolan]

This is our holiday episode. Thank you, Starbucks.

[Jake Brennan]

Merry Christmas. So this happens on Christmas Day, 1954. He's backstage. Johnny Ace is backstage with his label mate and friend, Big Mama Thornton, who had the first hit with the Lieber and Stoler tune Hound Dog, which Elvis made a massive hit with later on. So it's Johnny Ace, Big Mama Thornton backstage and Johnny Ace's girlfriend at the time, Olivia. And B.B. king is out on stage. This is in Houston. He's playing with. It's kind of like a big review show. And I think Johnny Otis is kind of like the. The mc. So there's a whole thing going on out there. Johnny Ace has already played, I believe, and he's back there and he's getting shit face. He was want to do with a quart of vodka. And he's, you know, entertaining, quote unquote, Olivia, his girl, and Big Mama Thornton by playing Russian or trying to play Russian roulette. Typically when you. This is the thing, this is where the myth comes into play. When you play Russian roulette, it's three or four guys sitting around a table. Like we are virtual table, but a real table. And. And you. You spin the barrel and you click. And if you survive, you pass the gun to somebody else. And people are betting on this and you're betting on this as well. Then you just gun around until someone actually kills himself. And this was. That's Russian roulette.

[Ben Bolan]

Well, you spin it between the turns.

[Jake Brennan]

You spin it between the turns. I believe.

[Max Williams]

Can I just say, the film that I was talking about, I just looked it up and it's called 13, and it's pretty cool. And in this article that mentions 13 from Russia beyond, they have some pretty cool stats. So they break it down. The first attempt, you got a 16.6% chance. The second, 20% chance. The third, 25%. The fourth, 33.3. And the fifth, fifth, 50. The sixth shot, of course, is always fatal.

[Jake Brennan]

Oh, okay.

[Ben Bolan]

That's why you spin it between the turns, because you want to keep the casino going.

[Jake Brennan]

But it Sounds like.

[Max Williams]

Okay, you don't have to. This is a version of it, too, where maybe you don't spin it, but, like, you. You know, wherever it starts, you've got that many. You know, you're gonna potentially land on the bullet eventually. It could be two away, it could be three away, it could be four away. So maybe you don't. If you don't spin it, it. Those are the odds.

[Ben Bolan]

I like your reference to Deer Hunter, Jake, which is fundamental. It's fundamentally important to this because it already tells us our protagonist here, Johnny Ace, is meeting with, you know, secular popular success. But he's maybe not in the best place mentally if he's drinking a quart of vodka and then saying.

[Max Williams]

Playing with guns.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. And saying, hey, you know what we should do while I'm drunk? We should try to shoot each other in the head.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah. I couldn't get a lot of info on Johnny Ace's state of mind. There's not a lot written about him. But what I did uncover is that. And this goes to sort of the conspiracy around this. Okay, so there's the myth and there's the conspiracy. And I'm going to comment on your comment, Ben, by setting these two up. So the myth is, of course, he died playing Russian roulette, which he did not. He eventually does in front of Big Mama Thornton, and Johnny Ace shoot himself and dies backstage.

[Ben Bolan]

Right.

[Jake Brennan]

So that's. The myth is that he played Russian roulette. No one else was playing. They were trying to get him to stop, and he wouldn't stop. Okay, There's. There's a conspiracy, and then there's the truth, which is conspiracy adjacent, that I happen to believe. So the conspiracy is that Big Mama Thornton snuck a bullet into the.22 that Johnny Ace had because she was just.

[Max Williams]

Tired of all his shenanigans, all his foolishness. He had just been acting a fool backstage, just drinking too much, throwing weapons around. She was just like, I'm putting a stop to this.

[Ben Bolan]

And now we're at folklore.

[Jake Brennan]

Yes.

[Ben Bolan]

So that's a yes. So we're saying the hidden bullet is the conspiracy theory.

[Jake Brennan]

This is the conspiracy. Now people actually believe this. I'm not one of them. People believe the Big Mom Authority, Jordan had done this on behest of a guy named Don Roby, who is the most fascinating character in the story. Don Roby was a proto Suge knight. Don Roby was to R B what Al Capone was to the Chicago Mafia. Don Roby was a larger than life, violent, exploitative, black, Jewish gangster. From Houston, didn't he?

[Max Williams]

Wasn't he a label head? Kind of.

[Jake Brennan]

Yes, he was the head.

[Max Williams]

Was it Duke Records?

[Jake Brennan]

He was the head of a record label that was first called Peacock. And then he merged that with a white radio promoter, last name of Mattis, who had a label called Duke. And then it became Duke Peacock for a while, to paint the picture of who this guy was, he also had a club called like the Golden Peacock. Wasn't the Golden Peacock, but it was something Peac in Houston. And every Saturday morning he would take all the cash he made at the club the night before, throw it in a burlap bag, put it over his shoulder, take his shotgun, put two shells in the shotgun, put that on his other shoulder and waltz downtown through Houston, daring anyone to with him while he went to the bank to deposit the money. He did this himself because he did not believe that anybody was tough enough. Tough as him, violent as him. Violent enough to fend off anybody who would actually try to rob him.

[Max Williams]

It was also a bit of flex to like show how tough. Oh, yeah, Just parade through the street like that.

[Ben Bolan]

Yes. Like you were saying, Jake, Suge Knight is a pretty good analog.

[Jake Brennan]

Yes, exactly.

[Ben Bolan]

Okay, so we got this. We got this character.

[Jake Brennan]

Yes. So Don Roby had all his bases covered. He had. He had the label which Johnny Ace was signed to. And Big Mama Thornton, Peacock Records.

[Max Williams]

Venue.

[Jake Brennan]

Right, the venue, the whatever. Peacock Club.

[Ben Bolan]

And then probably also had such a. You could probably also touch local politicians, maybe law enforcement.

[Jake Brennan]

I don't know about that. Who knows? Probably. I mean, who knows what those relationships are? But he also had. He was a booking agent. And he was one of the first successful promoters on what would become to be known the Chitlin Circuit, which was the black R and B network of clubs throughout America during this time. So he represented. He was the first. He represented Little Richard early on on the road. He represented Clarence Gatemouth Brown and T Bone Walker, these Texas blues musicians. So he's kind of got his hands. He's all over the board and. And what he wants more than anything. What Don Roby wants more than anything is a hit on the. The white pop charts. Now Johnny Ace had a hit on the R and B chart. Number one hit with. Oh, God. What was the name of the song? My Song. That was the name of the song. My Song. Number one hit for Johnny Ace on the R B charts. Didn't sniff the pop charts. Big Mama Thornton, she does the Lieber and Stoler song. Ain't Nothing But a Hound Dog. It's It's a hit on the R B charts and Elvis covers it and it becomes a huge hit on the white charts. But then it becomes kind of a novelty song. But Don Roby starts to get a sniff of how much money is available if you can get a chart on the white. If you can get a song on the white chart on the pop chart. So he really wants this for Johnny Ace. He thinks Johnny Ace is so cool. He's got the charisma to actually be able to pull this off, to cross over. And it doesn't happen for Johnny Ace. Now this when Johnny shoots himself, it's 1954. What? That's on Christmas Day. On New Year's Day, 1953, Hank Williams dies. And what happens to Hank Williams single at the time? It rockets up the charts and it becomes a number one hit. Not on the country charts, on the pop charts. And Don Roby goes, oh, okay, okay. When you die, when Hank Williams I'll never Get out of this World Alive is available for the public as a single and the artist dies, that'll go to the number one. Number one on the pop charts.

[Ben Bolan]

This episode of Ridiculous History is brought to you in part by American Public University.

[Max Williams]

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And now you're thinking about grad school.

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It's Harry Potter like you've never heard it before. Listen on audible go to audible.com HP1 and start listening today.

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[Max Williams]

Lilly, a medicine company. Maybe not with singles per se, but we've seen plenty of that phenomenon with like the death of Prince or David Bowie. Like all of a sudden Purple Rain's like on the charts again and people are just hard to find a reissue of, you know. So this is very real phenomenon. The question then becomes was the dude just a little bit callous in releasing the single postmortem, or did he actually manipulate events to create the situation that led to Johnny Ace's untimely demise?

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah, so that that single, Johnny Ace's single at the time, the day he died on Christmas, was Pledging My Love was actually already out. It had just been released. So the conspiracy piece of this is that people think Don Roby had manipulated Big Mama Thor Horton into doing his bidding by slipping that bullet in the chamber. So if you think Don Roby wants this number one hit, he wants Johnny Ace dead, then you've got motive. If you think that Johnny Ace is A reckless drunkard who likes a lot of gunplay. Then you've got. Then you've got means. And that's sort of how the conspiracy took off.

[Max Williams]

Right?

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah.

[Max Williams]

And then the question becomes, I don't know, we. We talk about stuff like this on our other show, stuff they don't want you to know with our buddy Matt quite a lot. And oftentimes, the more Elabor conspiracy, the less likely such a conspiracy was required to make the thing happen.

[Jake Brennan]

Yes. You know what I mean?

[Max Williams]

Like, it's just the situation was already rife for dude, right. Blow his own head off by drinking too much and, you know, flashing his gun around.

[Jake Brennan]

You're exactly right. You're exactly right. And this is where the myth busting piece comes into play, too, because what happens after he dies is it's perfect for Don Roby because the press being the duplicitous, lying scumbags that they just have forever been sure they pick up the story and they leave out half the facts. And literally the headlines are that he died playing Russian roulette. And he's got this song called Pledging My love, and it starts to go up the charts and it starts to become a huge hit. And Don Roby's not going to call anyone up at the Houston Chronicle and be like, oh, excuse me, you got that wrong. No, he didn't die from Russian roulette. He died because he was drunk and playing with a gun. So the myth just is allowed to take shape. The records start to sell, and a.

[Max Williams]

Guy like that can't buy that kind of coverage. And that's just the right level of getting it wrong that benefits him because it creates this mythological larger than life, this crazy guy, not just this drunken buffoon who maybe had a little too much to drink and accidentally shot himself.

[Ben Bolan]

Well, now it's folklore. Now it's zeitgeist. Now it's also. So as you said, Jake, it's hitting past the chitlin circuit. Right. It's public interest. Everybody is talking about it at the proverbial water cooler of the day. What happens to Ruby?

[Jake Brennan]

In a just fantastic stroke of irony, Elvis is fishing around for songs for what would become his last record. And this is in 1976, and he still has his fascination with Memphis boy Johnny Ace. So Elvis records Pledging my love, and then Elvis dies.

[Max Williams]

The double tap.

[Ben Bolan]

The double tap.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah, exactly. And Elvis is album is not a critical success. That last record, I believe, is called Blue. What is it called?

[Max Williams]

Moody Blue.

[Jake Brennan]

Moody Blue. Thank you, Noel. And. But it Sells a ton as his albums did. And what happens is Don Roby rakes in the royalties and his estate anyways. Rakes in the royalties because Don Roby's dead by that point. I don't remember how he met his end, but the sad irony is that Johnny Ace's family received.

[Ben Bolan]

I wasn't gonna say, yeah, nothing, zip, zilch.

[Max Williams]

It's a good example of people like that that are taking advantage of, you know, there's this guise of like, I'm going to help you out, I'm going to lift you up out of the ghetto or whatever it might be, because you're my people and I have your best interest at heart. But there's just as many examples of people like that taking advantage of their own, you know, folks and then giving bad contracts, you know, making duplicitous deals and then just keeping the money for themselves.

[Jake Brennan]

Or worse, dudes like Don Roby forcing their way into co writes even though they had nothing to do with the song. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh, man, that still happens, doesn't it?

[Jake Brennan]

I wouldn't doubt it. It's hard.

[Max Williams]

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's certainly. There were. There was a. There was a golden age for that kind of stuff in politics. I mean, maybe it happens more in politics, but in music it's a little harder to get away with that, I think, these days. But we also have, you know, some. Some Johnny A songs being covered by some other pretty big names. Bob Dylan and Joan Baez did one of his tunes, Never Let on the Rolling Thunder Review, which I think is featured in some of the film clips from that incredible tour. Luther Vandross did a cover in the 90s of a song that he had recorded originally. And then of course, the biggest one was Elvis's Pledging My Love, which was on that 1976 record you're talking about.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Bolan]

Now, as we said, Johnny Ace passes away in what may seem like a long time ago. Right. But we must remember, history is always closer than it looks in the rear view mirror. A lot of people show up to the funeral. Right. And I've got to ask you, Jake, is our buddy Don alive at this point? Does he show up to see the passage of Johnny Ace?

[Jake Brennan]

He's definitely alive then. Yeah, for sure. And I can't say that I know he did or did not, but I would bet money that he did. He was still sort of milking the cow at that point financially, and he was heavily invested in.

[Max Williams]

And he had an appearance to keep up. Because it wasn't going to be immediately apparent that he was taking everybody to the cleaners.

[Ben Bolan]

He has to be supportive.

[Max Williams]

The same way of the community. Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Bolan]

Who's that? Who's that dude who took advantage of Elvis Presley?

[Jake Brennan]

The Colonel was.

[Max Williams]

The Colonel.

[Jake Brennan]

Tom Hanks.

[Ben Bolan]

The Colonel. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[Max Williams]

Weirdly as hell portrayed by Tom Hanks in the Elvis movie.

[Ben Bolan]

What? Tom Hanks.

[Max Williams]

What an odd performance. I'm sorry, man.

[Jake Brennan]

I don't.

[Max Williams]

We don't. I don't. Footage of this guy. I don't know what he was like, but Tom made some choices.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, Tom from earlier. That guy is so wholesome. You know, his main thing that Tom Hanks loves is typewriters.

[Jake Brennan]

Oh, really?

[Ben Bolan]

More than acting? Yeah, he collects typewriters. Really? Yeah. And Jake, if you. If you have a typewriter and you type out a letter and send it to him, he'll probably type a letter back.

[Max Williams]

I love that. Nice. It's kind of cool. It's like Neil Young and his model trains. Yeah.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah. It's like Nolan, his cocaine habit.

[Max Williams]

If you and my modular synths excuse you.

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[Ben Bolan]

All right, Max, we'll keep.

[Max Williams]

All stays. We get debauched when Jake's around. Do you have any other, like, little closing thoughts or takeaways from the story or how it kind of. Maybe you mentioned the. It tied into that grief aspect that was such a through line in your book. I'm curious as to maybe how. How some of the. This fits in with that.

[Jake Brennan]

Well, I sort of imagine Elvis Presley sitting in his jungle room, which was the. The man cave at Graceland, sort of, you know, it's Christmas time. The snow is falling lightly outside, and he's, you know, he's. You know, his grief kind of comes back around the holidays. I'm not the first one to say that. And I could see him at that time sort of, you know, it's 1976. He's in bad, bad shape. And he's. He's fishing around, he's thinking about his brother and he's. He's thinking about that song Pledging My Love. And I could just, you know, I could see that all clicking into place dramatically and being motivation for Elvis to. To cover that tune.

[Max Williams]

Oh, my God. You paint a picture, my friend. I'm right there with you. Yeah, no, that's. What a great little. Little Christmas bow to put on. This pretty dark Christmas story also.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. We all think. Think a little bit about melancholy at this time of the year. A little bit of nostalgia. Right. And we get we all get a little Counting Crows, Long December, I would say.

[Max Williams]

Which I think, to Ben's point from earlier, is a Christmas song if you want it to be.

[Ben Bolan]

I love that.

[Max Williams]

I love that.

[Jake Brennan]

I'm taping a show later today about Christmas movies that aren't Christmas movies. And I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna steal that idea and pass it off as my own on Ben something.

[Ben Bolan]

Please.

[Max Williams]

I give you full permission on Ben's behalf.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah. Thank you, Noel, for giving Jake permission for my idea. There is one conspiracy theory we have to ask you about, since you are our expert on music history and if you'd like to be a returning correspondent, we'd be absolutely just over the moon to have you. Have you ever heard, Jake, the idea that Elvis Presley is a Melungeon?

[Jake Brennan]

First of all, I'd love to come back anytime I might discredit myself here in that endeavor by saying I don't know what a Melungeon is. What are we talking about?

[Ben Bolan]

What is that, Jake? It's a tri racial isolate in East Tennessee with dodgy genetics, usually accused historically of being. See, how's it go, Noel? It goes well.

[Max Williams]

It's considered a native. Like a First nation group, correct? To some degree. And then there's like a. There's a treasure. There's a mythological treasure of the Melungeons. And of course, this has come up. So I'm not scooping you here, Ben. I believe you are a member of this triracial isolate.

[Ben Bolan]

I am. And it is a subject of fascination, the idea that Elvis Presley might be Melungeon, that. That Abraham Lincoln might be a Melungeon, basically. And just so you know, folks, we're an audio podcast. Noel, Jake, Max, and yours truly can all see each other. I don't have the tan to pull this off, but I'm mainly bringing this up to note that anytime someone achieves a certain threshold of fame, there will inevitably be folklore about them. We agree with that.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

[Ben Bolan]

So, Jake, what's a myth or a piece of Americana or folklore you would like us to propagate about you?

[Max Williams]

And by that, he means where can people find your work? Because you've got the folklore. It's out there already in book form and podcast form and video form. It's all out there for the picking.

[Jake Brennan]

You can listen to Disgraceland, the podcast, wherever podcasts are available. The Iheart app, the Spotify app, Apple podcast, wherever that's available. We're gonna bump this Elvis Johnny Ace archive episode up to the top, right around the time that. That this version of the ridiculous history episode goes live. So people should be able to find it pretty easily. And I'd love to have you guys on one of my bonus episodes to sort of.

[Ben Bolan]

Are you kidding?

[Jake Brennan]

That'd be. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm not kidding at all. You know, oftentimes, you know, like last week in the bonus episode, which is much different from the main scripted episodes, you know, I was talking about there's this big video, this big documentary, the Age of Disclosure. Have you guys seen this?

[Ben Bolan]

Yes.

[Jake Brennan]

It's fantastic. And I was talking about that relative to musicians like, Merle Haggard was a huge. He had a UFO experience that he would not shut up about at the end of his life. John Lennon put it into nobody told me. Blink182. We have an episode on Tom DeLong being part of the disclaimer movement. So oftentimes we touch on topics that you guys are interested. That you guys are interested in. I know, and I'd love to have you on to just sort of, you know, have it go both ways, so to speak.

[Max Williams]

Well, between ridiculous history and stuff they don't want you to know, we're basically interested in everything that there is. So I think we could probably find a crossover opportunity.

[Jake Brennan]

Love that, love that.

[Max Williams]

But man, dude, what a pleasure having you. This is such an interesting topic and a bit of a dark one for Christmas, but we did do fruitcake last week, so I think we're. We're okay. We balanced it out. You know, you gotta have the light with the dark.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah. You guys Talked about my 90s band Fruitcake.

[Max Williams]

100% loves your words.

[Ben Bolan]

Mainly. Just so you know, Jake, when you listen, it's a three hour podcast, so not a time commitment. And the first 2 hours and 50 minutes are the study of your band fruitcake.

[Max Williams]

The rest of it is just various historical fruitcake recipes.

[Ben Bolan]

Yeah, yeah, that's it. The last dude. Thank you so much for joining us. Also, we have to thank a couple of other people, including our super producer, Mr. Max Williams.

[Jake Brennan]

Thank you, Max.

[Max Williams]

Oh, yeah, Alex Williams, who composed this theme. Who is this is maybe news to you, Jake, but is Max's actual fax brother and he's in the town for the holidays and we're excited to hang out with him very soon. Chris Frasiotes. And he's just both here in spirit.

[Jake Brennan]

Love that.

[Ben Bolan]

And Jake, I hate to hold you to the point, but ethics require. Can you give me one legend to make up about you?

[Jake Brennan]

About me that I am actually the grandson of Elvis Presley's twin brother.

[Ben Bolan]

Oh my.

[Jake Brennan]

Who did not die at birth but was in fact given away to heal people because his mama Gladys could not afford to raise him.

[Ben Bolan]

And that is our show. That is a fact. It is on record. Library of Congress fight with us.

[Jake Brennan]

Thanks, guys. It's my pleasure.

[Ben Bolan]

Appreciate you.

[Max Williams]

Oh heck yeah. We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite show.

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[Ben Bolan]

I'm Cal Penn.

[Jake Brennan]

I'm Ed Helms.

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Ed and I are inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with our new podcast, Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

[Jake Brennan]

Each week we sit down with your favorite iHeart podcast hosts and some very special guests to discuss the latest and.

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Greatest audiobook books from audible, listen to Earsay on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow Earsay and start listening on the free iHeartradio app today.

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[Jake Brennan]

Hulu Original Series All's Fair now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus.

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For bundle subscribers terms apply.

[Jake Brennan]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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