The Ridiculous -- and Surprisingly Dangerous -- History of Hair Dye

Summary

Ridiculous History: The Ridiculous — and Surprisingly Dangerous — History of Hair Dye

Episode Release Date: May 29, 2025
Host: Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown
Produced by iHeartPodcasts

---

Introduction: Hair as a Symbol of Power

In this engaging episode of Ridiculous History, hosts Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown delve into the fascinating and often perilous journey of hair dye throughout human civilization. Opening with playful banter about their own hairstyles, the duo sets the stage for a deep dive into how hair has long been a symbol of vitality, power, and self-expression.

Noel Brown (02:15): "In the world of fashion, hair has always been kind of a symbol of vitality."

They reference the biblical story of Samson, whose strength was tied to his hair, illustrating the historical significance placed on locks as sources of power and identity.

Ancient Practices: Egyptians and the Origins of Hair Dye

The conversation shifts to ancient Egypt, highlighting the Egyptians' advanced use of henna to dye their hair reddish-brown. This practice not only served aesthetic purposes but also helped obscure gray hair, which was undesirable.

Ben Bowlin (10:10): "Going back to like 1500 BCE, the well-to-do people in ancient Egypt would use henna to give their hair a reddish brown hue."

They discuss Pharaoh Ramesses the Great, whose naturally red or auburn hair was a genetic rarity, making his use of henna a mark of royalty and distinction.

Greek and Roman Influence: Dangerous Innovations

As the hosts trace the evolution of hair dye into the Greco-Roman period, they uncover the hazardous concoctions used to achieve fashionable hues. The Greeks and Romans experimented with ingredients like lead oxide and calcium hydroxide to create the first permanent black hair dyes, which posed significant health risks.

Noel Brown (22:37): "They mixed lead oxide, bad stuff, calcium hydroxide, and water. This is the first permanent black hair dye."

The detrimental effects of these early dyes, including scalp corrosion and potential neurological damage, underscore the “surprisingly dangerous” aspect of hair dye history.

The Advent of Safer Alternatives: L'Oréal's Beginnings

The narrative advances to the 19th and early 20th centuries, spotlighting Eugene Schuller, a French chemist who pioneered non-toxic hair dyes. Schuller's innovations laid the foundation for modern hair coloring, leading to the establishment of L'Oréal.

Ben Bowlin (33:25): "He started a company called the French company of inoffensive hair dyes, which later became L'Oréal."

The partnership between Schuller and his professor Dr. August Hoffman resulted in the development of paraphenylenediamine, a key ingredient in permanent hair dyes still in use today.

Marketing and the Normalization of Hair Dye

Ben and Noel explore how marketing strategies played a crucial role in making hair dye a mainstream beauty product. They highlight a pivotal 1956 Clairol advertisement that cleverly questioned whether women's hair dye made them more attractive, thereby normalizing the practice.

Ben Bowlin (51:31): "There was a 1956 Clairol ad that just says, 'Dude, does she or doesn't she?'"

This period saw a significant increase in hair dye usage, particularly among women gaining more societal agency post-World War II. The hosts note how hair dye became an expression of personal freedom and individuality.

Modern Industry and Continued Evolution

Fast forward to contemporary times, the episode discusses the booming hair dye industry, now valued at over $23 billion globally. They trace the rise of brands like Clairol and Manic Panic, emphasizing the shift towards vibrant and unconventional colors as a form of self-expression.

Noel Brown (52:50): "Manic Panic's the big one. They started this creative hair color line back in 1977."

The hosts also touch upon the persistent issues with hair dye ingredients, even in modern formulations, reiterating the ongoing balance between fashion and safety.

Cultural Impact and Personal Expression

Ben and Noel reflect on the cultural significance of hair dye, from Hollywood icons like Jean Harlow and Marilyn Monroe who popularized bold hair colors, to today's diverse and dynamic hair trends. They emphasize the personal agency individuals have in choosing their hair colors, celebrating the freedom to express oneself without fear of judgment.

Ben Bowlin (53:05): "Your body is your own. Your choices are your own. And that's a very important thing. So don't let people bully you about it."

Conclusion: Embracing the Ridiculous History of Hair Dye

Wrapping up the episode, the hosts express their fascination with the often overlooked and hazardous history of hair dye. They acknowledge the strides made towards safer products while celebrating the colorful legacy that has allowed individuals to express their identities boldly.

Noel Brown (54:45): "This is a really fun one and we actually have a bunch of tangents and trivia that we're not gonna get to today that we are absolutely gonna snip out and put in an upcoming compilation episode."

With humor and insightful analysis, Ben and Noel provide listeners with a comprehensive overview of how hair dye has evolved from ancient symbolism to a modern staple of personal expression.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Noel Brown (02:15): "In the world of fashion, hair has always been kind of a symbol of vitality."
• Ben Bowlin (10:10): "Going back to like 1500 BCE, the well-to-do people in ancient Egypt would use henna to give their hair a reddish brown hue."
• Noel Brown (22:37): "They mixed lead oxide, bad stuff, calcium hydroxide, and water. This is the first permanent black hair dye."
• Ben Bowlin (33:25): "He started a company called the French company of inoffensive hair dyes, which later became L'Oréal."
• Ben Bowlin (51:31): "There was a 1956 Clairol ad that just says, 'Dude, does she or doesn't she?'"
• Noel Brown (52:50): "Manic Panic's the big one. They started this creative hair color line back in 1977."
• Ben Bowlin (53:05): "Your body is your own. Your choices are your own. And that's a very important thing. So don't let people bully you about it."
• Noel Brown (54:45): "This is a really fun one and we actually have a bunch of tangents and trivia that we're not gonna get to today that we are absolutely gonna snip out and put in an upcoming compilation episode."

---

For more episodes like this, tune into Ridiculous History on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript

[Ben Bullen]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you as always, so much for tuning in. Let's hear it for the one, the only, the natural haired super producer, Mr. Max Williams.

[Noel Brown]

Max Midnight Williams, because that's the deep, deep color of his luscious locks. How long do y' all think my hair is? I couldn't tell you. That's outside the scope of this episode, Max.

[Ben Bullen]

Frankly, no. It's down to your butt. I've seen it.

[Noel Brown]

Is it? Holy cows are trunks. I just made up that word.

[Ben Bullen]

I like holy cow.

[Noel Brown]

I wasn't wrong about the lusciousness, so I wish y' all could see it. If only it weren't just an audio.

[Ben Bullen]

It's nice. It looks like a commercial.

[Noel Brown]

Fabio Lax.

[Ben Bullen]

Fabio Lax. Just so that's Noel Brown. They call me Ben Bullen in this part of the world. We are three dudes here in the United States and we have a ton of questions about history. Now, Noel, you and I, and God, I love the Fabio thing is not going to leave my head. You nailed it.

[Noel Brown]

I'm very aroused.

[Ben Bullen]

We are three dudes with, again, an enormous interest in weird, weird stuff. And thanks to the help of our research associate, the legendary Ren, today we're going to talk about hair dye for sure.

[Noel Brown]

And it's something that I have always somewhat assumed, at least in terms of the way it's used today. Been sort of a modern thing, which isn't that far off. But in the world of fashion, hair has always been kind of a symbol of vitality. We would talk about Samson, for example, the biblical character whose, you know, magical strength, apparently the power resided in his hair. And it was, I believe, Salome, who was sort of his arch, that cut his hair off and deprived him of his strength. So, I mean, it's definitely in the lore. Or that hair having a good head of hair indicates some form of vitality, not to mention a form of self expression, as evidenced by Max's Ariel style head throw, you know, and thank you.

[Ben Bullen]

For not doing dreadlocks, Max. If this podcasting thing doesn't work out for us, I'm clearly gonna ride Max's coattails or ponytails. Giddy up when he becomes the new face of Clairol. Herb Essences.

[Daniel]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Unknown]

Breaking news. T Mobile network outperforms expectations in all sectors because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch. Now keep your phone and T Mobile will Pay it off up to 800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch. Up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allowed 15 days qualified unlocked device credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Dexter Thomas]

Are there any pictures of you online then? You could already be in a massive police database without even knowing it.

[Unknown]

Clearview scrapes together images from Facebook, from LinkedIn, from Venmo accounts.

[Dexter Thomas]

I'm Dexter Thomas, host of Kill Switch, a podcast about how living in the future is affecting us right now.

[Unknown]

Police they are trusting the software with this magical ability to lead them to the right suspect.

[Dexter Thomas]

In this episode we dive into how cops are using AI and facial recognition and sometimes getting it wrong and putting innocent people behind bars.

[Unknown]

So if your accuser is this algorithm, but you're not even being told that it was used, let alone given any of the details about how it works.

[Dexter Thomas]

Listen to Kill Switch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Daniel]

We love learning about this extraordinary universe.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

And we love sharing what we've learned.

[Daniel]

And on our podcast, Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe, that's what we're gonna do.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and I think our universe is absolutely extraordinary.

[Daniel]

I'm Kelly Wienersmith. I study parasites and there's just endless things about this universe that I find fascinating.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

Basically, we're both nerds.

[Daniel]

Each Tuesday and Thursday we take an hour long dive into some science topic.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

Learn all about our amazing and beautiful universe on Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe. Every Tuesday, Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tremarchi, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the Highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers. Known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s, her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Find more crime and cocktails on Criminalia. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Bullen]

I love the point you bring up, Noel about the idea of hair as power in in those old biblical stories. True, true story. Once upon a time, a girl I was dating used to get so mad when I got a haircut, and she told me that my hairdresser was robbing me of my power.

[Noel Brown]

It's very bodily fluid.

[Dexter Thomas]

That's different.

[Ben Bullen]

That's very weird.

[Noel Brown]

It is a little weird, yeah. I mean, but there certainly are religious sects, I guess you call them, where, you know, I believe it's Pentecostal, where cutting the hair is a no, no. And there is a certain reverence associated with the ha. Although beauty standards have certainly evolved and changed, and cyclical things kind of come and go and then come back over time, one thing that certainly remains to some degree is that too many gray hair is seen as a sign of aging and therefore perhaps been a sign of weakness, which is wild. I don't care for it.

[Ben Bullen]

Who doesn't love a silver fox?

[Noel Brown]

I would much rather go gray than go bald. And that is no shade to any of our bald community out there. Any receding hairline, folks, or widow's peaks, what have you. I personally pride myself on having a pretty good head of hair that will definitely one day be entirely gray, But I don't think the hair itself is going anywhere, and that's a bargain that I can be on board with.

[Ben Bullen]

Widow's peaks are awesome. They make you look smarter. They make you look a little bit like a Vulcan.

[Noel Brown]

Little vampiric, perhaps the leady Munster.

[Ben Bullen]

All right, so I wore a hat for this one. Look, folks, we know the hair dye industry is booming right now. In the current global economy, the hair dye industry alone racks up about US$23.15 billion. And for a lot of people, this is a very sensitive thing. Hair can be challenging. It can be a statement. It can be something people judge you for. While I am on record loving gray hair, a lot of people do get bothered by this. So hair dye, by modern standards is way more recent than you might imagine, folks. It's existed in a modern industry for about a century. But even in its early days, the iterations were relatively simple. Maybe some of us in the audience were remember the idea of hair bluing, you know, like Marge Simpson, there was blue thing.

[Noel Brown]

I don't know if I know about that. I guess I've heard of older ladies sometimes referred to as blue hairs. There is a shade of gray that has a bit of a bluish hue that I've always found interesting. But, man, we got to do it. Because every time we're talking about the history of pigments and fashion and then, you know, fabric, for example, we always end up back with the ancient Egyptians, who were huge innovators. In many, many ways. In industrialization, irrigation, farming techniques, construction, and of course, yes, 100% weaponry, myth making. Let's just say we always talk about. I mean, I don't know if you've seen the film Heretic, but there is some interesting. There's an interesting part where the character pedantically talks about how some of the ancient myths of Egypt have a lot of parallels with biblical stuff. There is this sort of hero's journey, repeated story. And there is some truth to that dating as far the ancient Egypt.

[Ben Bullen]

Shout out to Joseph Campbell.

[Noel Brown]

Thank you, Joseph Campbell.

[Ben Bullen]

Hero with a thousand faces Still a thing.

[Noel Brown]

Exactly right, Ben. A really good one. If you're into Star wars and you're seeing some of these tropes that begin to start to seem a little bit recognizable, there's a reason for that. But one thing the ancient Egyptians prided themselves on was looking good, looking fine.

[Ben Bullen]

All right.

[Noel Brown]

Smelling good.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah.

[Noel Brown]

Making love good.

[Ben Bullen]

Especially as the royal family became increasingly Habsburg esque. I said it.

[Dexter Thomas]

Yeah.

[Ben Bullen]

Just look. Come on, man. You get it. Look at King Tut.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, King Tut.

[Ben Bullen]

Tut.

[Noel Brown]

Indeed, indeed.

[Ben Bullen]

So going Back to like 1500 BCE, the well to do people in ancient Egypt would use henna to give their hair a reddish brown hue. It would also help obscure gray hair because we have to remember for a long time in human history, gray hair was not cool. Now, I want to be clear here. Max is a brownie. My pal Noel and I have various streaks of gray. Noel's got a cool, roguish from the X Men streak of gray in his hair. I like stripe nice gray goatee. I got these two gray stripes that make me look like Ra's al Ghul.

[Noel Brown]

It's true.

[Ben Bullen]

And I've got the gray at my temple. Like Reed Richards from Fantastic Four.

[Noel Brown]

What do they call those? Polly Walnuts in. They call them wings. Actually. I got some people. Some people dye them that way on purpose as like a thing. Yeah. Paulie talks about getting his wings done in. It's like maybe an Italian kind of thing. A little bit dated, but very funny for that character. But the ancient Egyptians used henna, like you said, to dye their hair this reddish brown color. And it certainly. There was an aspect of masking you the signs of aging, because we know the Egyptians were pretty vain people and that's too much of a hot take. But it was also like kind of a societal flex in a way too. A way of differentiating the haves from the have nots. It was popularized, as is often the case, by a great ruler A very prominent figure, Pharaoh Ramesses. Ramesses, rather the Great. A 1976 study of his mummified remains concluded that he did not in fact have black hair, but rather red or auburn hair.

[Ben Bullen]

What a flex.

[Noel Brown]

That's very interesting. So wait, he had black hair, like when it was. He was his hair naturally red or auburn? Is that what they're saying?

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, it was natural. Like how I'm a semi ginger or day walker, they would call it. Yeah, it's being a not quite ginger was a huge social flex. Really. At that time, you were associated with royalty. You were associated with the deity of the desert sands set, who was not a bad guy at that time. Going back to our earlier Song of Ice and Fire, Hapsburg jokes, this pharaoh in particular probably got his red hair via genetics. His father had also been born as a guy with red or auburn hair. The issue is that they wanted to maintain that red hair can go gray. Early and gray at that time meant you were running toward the grave. So you always wanted to have your hair unique and you wanted it to be a statement. You could also, at this time in ancient Egypt, use indigo as a dye to achieve that kind of blue, black, silky shade. Or you could go blonde.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, I guess that's what I was a little confused about. I'm trying to find some more specific mentions, but the indication was that it was thought that Ramses had black hair, but in fact he had red or auburn hair that was genetically inherited from his father, who was named after Set, you know, for this unique trait, this familial trait. So I'm guessing that perhaps he used a. He dyed over that color.

[Ben Bullen]

I think as he went gray, he died over it.

[Noel Brown]

Okay, okay, I got it. I'm just wondering if he was using indigo because certainly if you already got the red and people are using this stuff to get the red fakely, he'd be just rocking it all natural. But I guess you're right. He could have used the henna, cover up some of those grays. And of course, if anyone's ever messed with turmeric in the kitchen, you know that that spice can stain your fingers pretty bright yellow pretty quick. And that was actually used to create kind of a quasi blonde shade of yellow. And we gotta think too. They didn't really have chemical lightening techniques yet at this point. So it's not gonna be the same like platinum blonde type look as we're gonna get to a little further down the line. So by 323 BC, ancient Egypt, Rome and Greece were Kind of co occupying the Greco Roman period collectively and contributing various bits, you know, to culture and history with a lot of parallel thinking going on as well, right?

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, absolutely. Look, there's another great. And this guy is named Alexander the Great. Super humble dude. Greek general, conquered Egypt. When he dies, he's got an employee, a real up and comer named Ptolemy, related to Cleopatra. And Ptolemy takes over Egypt. Everything carries on for about 300 years until Julius Caesar has the worst work meeting of his life. Then Cleopatra loses control of Egypt in a battle to the Romans because she chose the wrong side in that post Caesar power vacuum. These cultures. The reason we're telling you this, folks, is that these cultures reach a confluence of hair dye. The ancient Greeks and Romans look at this jet black hair that most people are rocking in Egypt and they go, oh, man, this is so cool. Let's be like the cool people. And then they make a series of just terrible choices in creating their hair dye. Can we name some of the ingredients here?

[Noel Brown]

We, we can. And I just want to say, I think maybe where I was getting off with the whole Ramses hair color thing was that. Yeah, it's a really good point that you make, Ben. Egyptians were typically born with jet black hair. So for Ramses to have that red hair was super unusual and remarkable and perhaps even what people looked to in wanting to use that henna to kind of match that freak. You know what I mean?

[Ben Bullen]

Divinely inspired. Also, I like the nomenclature. Match that freak. That's what the Romans were trying to do. They mixed lead oxide, bad stuff, calcium hydroxide and water. This is the first permanent black hair dye. This is not that stuff you would buy at Gadzooks or a Hot Topic.

[Noel Brown]

And we know even today that a lot of hair lightening products and hair dyes can be pretty gnarly. You got to be careful, you know, and you got to have a professional do it. You can literally set your hair on fire.

[Ben Bullen]

Yes.

[Noel Brown]

If you're not careful.

[Ben Bullen]

Yes. And you can fry your. You can fry your scalp.

[Dexter Thomas]

Are there any pictures of you online? I'm not just talking about Google. I'm talking anywhere.

[Unknown]

Clearview scrapes together images from Facebook, from LinkedIn, from Venmo accounts.

[Dexter Thomas]

That database is now being used by police departments all across the country to match criminal suspect photos. And sometimes it makes mistakes.

[Unknown]

So in this one case, two of their search results that I think were in the top 10 of the search results were Michael Jordan. A picture of Michael Jordan.

[Dexter Thomas]

But cops are still using it to make arrests.

[Unknown]

Police, they are trusting this software to lead them to the right suspect, but you're not even being told that it was used, let alone given any of the details about how it works.

[Dexter Thomas]

This is not Minority Report. This is happening right now. People are getting arrested and doing actual time in jail after being picked out by a computer. I'm Dexter Thomas, host of Kill Switch, where every Wednesday we explain the right now of living in the future. You can turn off the computer, but do not let the computer turn you off. Listen to Kill switch in the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Daniel]

Hey, everyone, we want to tell you about our podcast.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and I think our universe is. Is absolutely extraordinary.

[Daniel]

Hello, I'm Kelly Wienersmith. I study parasites along with nature's other creepy crawlies. And there's just endless things about this universe that I find fascinating.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

All right, well, basically, we're both nerds. We love learning about this extraordinary universe and we love sharing what we've learned. So that's what we're going to do.

[Daniel]

And on our podcast, Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe is all about the mind blowing discovery discoveries we've made about this.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

Crazy beautiful cosmos, from the tiniest particles to the biggest blue whales.

[Daniel]

Each Tuesday and Thursday, we take an hour long dive into some science topic, during which time I try to suppress my biologist training and keep the poop jokes to a minimum.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

Learn all about our amazing and beautiful universe on Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe every Tuesday and Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you hit your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Trimarchi, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers, known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s. Her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Hear the story of the gentleman robber, the romantic darling of the ladies. And a tale about a wager over a sack of potatoes. But you'll have to tune in to learn who won that one. Some highwaymen were well mannered or faked it. People were concerned about the romanticism of robbers, but most were just thugs. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Call them robbers or bandits. Some are legendary figures. Listen to stories about historical crimes on Criminalia now. Plus the cocktails and mocktails inspired by each. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dan Bush]

What happens when we come face to face with death?

[Ben Bullen]

My truck was blown up by a 20 pound anti tank mine. My parachute did not deploy. I was kidnapped by a drug cartilage.

[Noel Brown]

I just remember everything getting dark.

[Ben Bullen]

Dark.

[Noel Brown]

I'm dying.

[Dan Bush]

When we step beyond the edge of.

[Ben Bullen]

What we know, to open our consciousness to something more than just what's in that western box and return.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

I clinically died.

[Noel Brown]

The heart stopped beating, which I was.

[Ben Bullen]

Dead for 11.5 minutes.

[Dan Bush]

My name is Dan Bush. My mission is simple. To find, explore and share these stories.

[Noel Brown]

I'm not a victim. I'm a survivor.

[Ben Bullen]

You're strongest when you're the most vulnerable.

[Dan Bush]

To remind us what it means to be alive. Not just that I was the guy that cut his arm off, but I'm the guy who was smiling when he cut his arm off. Alive Again, a podcast about the fragility of life, the strength of the human spirit, and what it means to truly live. Listen to Alive Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Ben Bullen]

The figures. Neurology was not really a science at this point. So the formula these Greeks and Romans cooked up was bad for you. It could cause brain damage. It would corrode your scalp eventually, without being neurologists. The Greco Romans figured this out and they said, all right, here's what we're going to do. A much more healthy option. We're going to ferment leeches in vinegar and we're going to apply that so that we look more. Look like an Egyptian.

[Noel Brown]

No, you want to. They're definitely the cool kids. They're definitely the trendsetters of history at this point, leaving behind a lot of pretty cool stuff that got kind of, you know, styled on, let's just say later on down the line, dude.

[Ben Bullen]

Also, some of the Greeks who were obviously trying to be edgy, I guess, trying to do their Met Gala stuff, they leaned into their lighter hair. To your excellent note about lightning hair color. They used potassium pollen and crushed yellow flower petals to kind of make their hair lighter. They made a paste or really, if we're being honest, a poultice, because we love that weird term.

[Noel Brown]

Henna would be similarly thick and pasty. And I think it would honestly be almost something that you would apply to the hair because without bleaching it, you're not. You can't dye black hair a color. It just doesn't really work, doesn't take. That's why you have to bleach it first. So I'm wondering if they would rub this stuff in their hair. And the color kind of came from the fact that this was like in there. Yeah.

[Ben Bullen]

The salt is reacting with the keratin in the hair. They knew the process. They didn't have the same words we have for it now. And they knew that the sunshine would touch the hair when you had this pasty stuff on it. It's kind of like how Ren points this out. It's kind of like how if you park a car in the sun for a long enough time, the energy from the sun will have an effect on the paint.

[Noel Brown]

So that's what they were doing. You can use the sun to like expose photographic plates and things like that, you know, I mean, like whatever, you know, obviously. But if you leave say a drawing out, like on a. On a piece of. Of regular art paper long enough, it will lighten over time.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah. And now fast forward. Greeks, Egyptians. Sorry, guys. The Romans are running stuff now. And when the Romans are running stuff, they steal from the Egyptians, they steal from the Greeks. This is not a hot take. This is how their culture works. They start creating this 1 percenter class in a different way, such that if you are a woman of significant means or a person of significant means, honestly, you got blonde hair. You want to look blonde, right? You want to stay blonde. And so if you have the means at this point in time, you apply literal powdered gold with a special comb. So you get sparkly hair.

[Noel Brown]

I don't know if you know this, Ben, but hair glitter is apparently back in a big way. It was big in, I think the late 90s and early 2000s, and apparently that movie Anora kind of brought it back into fashion a little bit. So this is like the OG hair glitter. Very, very expensive hair glitter.

[Ben Bullen]

Are you doing hair glitter?

[Noel Brown]

Not I, no. But glitter is insidious. I mean, if it's around, you're gonna get some on you.

[Ben Bullen]

Oh gosh, we don't even wanna mention it. It's like saying the quizzter's name thrice.

[Noel Brown]

I learned a really funny term recently. It's called divorce glitter. It's like something women who are going on dates in order to ward off married men who are lying to them. They wear glitter so that it gets on the men and then their wives will know that they've been stepping out on em.

[Ben Bullen]

Well, first off, I am impressed. And secondly, that's really sad that you can't trust people.

[Noel Brown]

It is sad. But divorce, quitter, you gotta. It's a trap. And you deserve it. You heal. But there's another. In addition to the gold powder, there was like, you know, that was only for the 1% of the 1%, as you mentioned, Ben. But for those in that lower echelon of society. Yeah. They weren't really rocking the gold powder. They were basically using a lye, Right. More or less. Wood ash with vinegar and soap liquor. Isn't that basically lye? To a degree. It's something along those lines. Wood ash and soap liquor.

[Ben Bullen]

Imperium Romanum, it was called. Right. It's weird. And it did have a bad smell. And it did burn people's skin. Also, if you left it on your head too long, your hair would become brittle. It would start falling out or breaking when you touched it. So of course, as we mentioned in the very first episode of Ridiculous History, Loathi, several years ago, wigs come into play. The fancy version is the peruke. Remember that episode, Noel?

[Noel Brown]

I do. But Ben, I have to ask you a question.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah.

[Noel Brown]

Do you wear wigs?

[Ben Bullen]

No.

[Noel Brown]

Have you worn wigs for costumes?

[Ben Bullen]

Yes. That's not actually George Washington in those videos.

[Noel Brown]

Will you wear wigs?

[Ben Bullen]

I don't think so. I don't think it's me. It may be.

[Noel Brown]

Dang it. And then I'll get to my last question, which is, when will you wear wigs? Sorry.

[Ben Bullen]

Oh, no. What about you? What about you?

[Noel Brown]

You don't know that bit? This is delightful exchange between Elijah Wood and the other dude who played one of his hobbit buddies. Apparently he, the guy that was in Lost, he apparently was punking Elijah Wood because it was like a phone only interview with a German journalist. And he's just talking to Elijah. Dominic Montague, Monaghan Montague, will you wear wigs? And he gets in the ends with, when will you wear wigs? I hear you, but you look great in that George Washington wig, Ben. You strike a dashing figure. And wigs are really a cool thing. And they're still very much around today as a fashion statement, especially folks in the drag community and beyond. I mean, you can really say a lot with a wig. Not to mention the theatrical aspect of it.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah. And back in this time period, wigs were especially. I don't want to be a jerk about it, but wigs were for sex workers in some communities because they would have these yellow haired wigs that would let prospective customers, no, hey, the store is open.

[Noel Brown]

Little wink, wink, nod, nod, nudge, nudge.

[Ben Bullen]

Saying, that was your father. And that comes to us from Devin Hopp, writing for the Extraordinary History of hair color. People liked blondes, dude. People liked blonde hair. Especially in Venice.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah. And it's interesting because we get obviously into some pretty gnarly racist tropes when it comes to blonde hair, blue eyes, Aryan kind of stuff. So it is interesting. Interesting that this early on there is this sort of obsession with those things, right?

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, 100%. According to the Journal of the American Academy of dermatology, by the 1500s, female identifying folks in Venice had a penchant for bleaching their hair in the sun, often wearing broad brimmed hats without a crown when sitting out on their rooftop verandas. I have a question for you, Noel. Broad brimmed hat without a crown, is that just like a visor that goes all the way around?

[Noel Brown]

I think it is, dude. Which is interesting. And I gotta wonder too. I love to see some stats from this era about skin cancer. Certainly don't think people were wearing sunscreen.

[Ben Bullen]

Right, right. We're still before neurology and we're before dermatology. So if we fast forward a little bit further, it's the 17th century in England and people are not as into blonde hair. They want to have dark hair. It's associated with youth. So women would make a paste, you can see it called a potion, but I think it's a paste of elderberries and red. Red wine. You could also use radish extract to get that red hair.

[Noel Brown]

Again, just a quick question. A poultice would be when you're starting to add more solid materials like leaves and sticks and stuff, right?

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, A hundred percent. Gosh. I'm still. What? I'm trying to remember what that temporary hair dye was in. Gadzooks. Or a hot Topic.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, we're gonna get to that. Well, it's not temporary. We're gonna get to the kind of, I guess, OG funky hair color. But there's certainly. I know what you're talking about, Ben. There was a temporary solution, you know, for folks that didn't want to go the full nine. But unfortunately, you know, for all the good intentions and fashionista ness of it all, if that's the word, this stuff was still very, very toxic.

[Ben Bullen]

100%. You know, people were not experts in lead either. We're going to go to further, faster forward. The chemically challenged origins of modern hair dye. It's 1856. Malaria is very much in play. There's a thing called quinine. Quinine. How do you say it, Noel?

[Noel Brown]

I sometimes say quinine. I've heard it in many different ways, though. I don't think there's. I think it's totally dealer's choice, bro.

[Ben Bullen]

I'm still learning English as you same brother.

[Noel Brown]

We all are. But yeah, quinine, we know it's. You know, I think this is probably the little fun fact people often drop about this. It is what makes tonic water taste the way it does. So, yeah, your gin and tonic does have quinine in it, or at least it used to. But it is a very important remedy for malaria, which was, like you said, wide rife at the time.

[Ben Bullen]

I love the phrase wide rife. So, okay, it comes from. This substance, comes from the cinchona trees in Southeast Asia. So it's a real pickle to get this stuff out and derive it and make it.

[Noel Brown]

Oh, from the source. Right? Yeah, got it.

[Ben Bullen]

So there's this guy named William Henry Perkin. He is 18 years old, young upstart. Yeah. He's a chem student. And he says, look, I gotta make some alternative to this substance so that more people can have it. He was. Was not successful in making an antimalarial treatment, but he did accidentally create another compound from coal tar. Mavine. It becomes the first successful synthetic hair dye or dye regular dye.

[Noel Brown]

He should have been on our list of. Well, I mean, we wouldn't have him for this discussion, but we did an episode recently on accidental inventions, and this is certainly one of them. Like you said, derived from coal tar. This stuff is actually called mavine. It also was referred to as aniline purple. And it was marketed in a burst of genius. Kind of like to take this byproduct, this trash product and sell it. Weave it into gold, not gold powder. It was sold as the first mass produced commercially available synthetic hair dye.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, and at the beginning, it was mostly used for dyeing fabric, not hair.

[Noel Brown]

And Perkin things were a little prim and proper during this era. So like funky colors were kind of. Kind of right out.

[Ben Bullen]

Oh, it's killing me not to remember the name of that temporary hair dye. Anyway, so our buddy Perkin, he is a kiddo, as you said, Noel. He has professors and one of his professors is a guy named Dr. August Hoffman. And Hoffman looks at his student's invention and he creates a color changing molecule called. Here we go, Max. Paraphenylinate diamine.

[Noel Brown]

Just. Let's call it 10 out of 10.

[Ben Bullen]

11 out of 10.

[Noel Brown]

Thank you. Yeah.

[Ben Bullen]

Paraphenylene diamine. Paraphenylline diamine, PPE.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, what is it? Cappuccino ballerina.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah. So, okay, this is the foundation for most permanent hair dyes. Today.

[Noel Brown]

Today, still. Yeah.

[Ben Bullen]

Thanks again to Birdie, our source on this. Noel, can you you introduce us to the first guy who figured out how to make hair dye that was not poisonous?

[Noel Brown]

That'd be cool. Let's figure that one out. Eugene Schuller, 1907, a French chemist who did invent the first non toxic. I love that term. They used to print it on stuff all the time. Non toxic. It used to be on magic markers. I wonder if that term's fallen out of favor because it's sort of like everything should be assumed at this point to be non toxic. But I guess that's not true, is it?

[Ben Bullen]

It's like when you go to a gas station and they, you see a sign, unleaded gas or you drive by a school and it says drug free school zone. Well, where's the cool. Where's the cool school?

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, exactly. Too cool for school was French chemist Eugene Schuller who did invent the first non toxic hair dye in the sense that it wasn't lead based. So it was a synthetic hair dye had a range of subtle hues which in the Victorian era was key because they weren't trying to go go hog wild and Titian snooky themselves like we're going to get to in a bit. The idea of using synthetic hair dye, however, was not particularly well known and it hadn't achieved popularity among French women yet. So he was going to have to kind of spread the word if he wanted to capitalize on this development.

[Ben Bullen]

Yo, man, he is exactly like Edward Bernays. He is pushing the problem.

[Noel Brown]

He then shows up to solve.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, yeah. So he starts a company called. This is the real name in English, the French company of inoffensive hair dyes.

[Noel Brown]

That is, it is so inoffensive, man.

[Ben Bullen]

Which is so benign, later translates to or changes to l' Oreal.

[Noel Brown]

L' Oreal, which I'm not sure if does that actually. No, it's a homonym, right. For a popular hairstyle which is Oriel at the time. A play on words of aureole and halo. Low. So it is a made up word, but it just. Boy, does this sound fancy in French, doesn't it? He kind of was on to something already, right?

[Ben Bullen]

You know, we're from the United States, we speak English. We're still learning it candidly. But I would say that anytime we see a word with an apostrophe in there, you know, and a nice string of vowels, we automatically go, oh, family, fancy. Oh, Haagen Dazs.

[Noel Brown]

Indeed. Which is also a totally BS word. Yes, it is made up with all those umlauts and stuff. It just looks proper. I don't even think of Germans as, like, being particularly up on ice cream, which is an odd choice. You know, think of that more as maybe like a French thing as well.

[Ben Bullen]

Dude, just soft note the Austrians. I never want to go back to Austria again. But the. The time. What do they do?

[Noel Brown]

How do they hurt you?

[Ben Bullen]

Well, unrelated, outside of the scope of this convo. Those guys love ice cream.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, I had some.

[Ben Bullen]

Weirdly into it.

[Noel Brown]

Yeah, I had some really good ice cream in Berlin as well. I can't remember the name of the place, but when I grew up in Germany, one thing I remember and I'll never forget is this thing called spaghetti ice, which is like. Yeah, yeah, I think we talked about it before. It's like ice cream that looks like spaghetti noodles and then it's got covered in strawberry sauce that looks like marinade.

[Dexter Thomas]

Era.

[Noel Brown]

It's super weird. Yeah, it's a texture thing. It's interesting.

[Dexter Thomas]

Are there any pictures of you online? I'm not just talking about Google. I'm talking anywhere.

[Unknown]

Clear View scrapes together images from Facebook, from LinkedIn, from Venmo accounts.

[Dexter Thomas]

That database is now being used by police departments all across the country to match criminal suspect photos. And sometimes it makes mistakes.

[Unknown]

So in this one case, 2.2of their search results that I think were in the top 10 of the search results were Michael Jordan, a picture of Michael.

[Dexter Thomas]

Jordan, but cops are still using it to make arrests.

[Unknown]

Police, they are trusting this software to lead them to the right suspect. But you're not even being told that it was used, let alone given any of the details about how it works.

[Dexter Thomas]

This is not Minority Report. This is happening right now. People are getting arrested and doing actual time in jail after being picked out out by a computer. I'm Dexter Thomas, host of Kill Switch, where every Wednesday we explain the right now of living in the future. You can turn off the computer, but do not let the computer turn you off. Listen to Kill switch in the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Daniel]

Hey, everyone, we want to tell you about our podcast.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and I think our universe is absolutely extraordinary.

[Daniel]

Hello, I'm Kelly Wienersmith. I study parasites along along with nature's other creepy crawlies. And there's just endless things about this universe that I find fascinating.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

All right, well, basically, we're both nerds. We love learning about this extraordinary universe and we love sharing what we've learned. So that's what we're gonna do.

[Daniel]

And on our podcast, Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe is all about the mind blowing discoveries we've made about this crazy beautiful cosmos.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

From the tiny tiniest particles to the biggest blue whales.

[Daniel]

Each Tuesday and Thursday we take an hour long dive into some science topic, during which time I try to suppress my biologist training and keep the poop jokes to a minimum.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

Learn all about our amazing and beautiful universe on Daniel and Kelly's extraordinary universe every Tuesday and Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tremarch, hosts of Criminalia as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the Highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers, known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s. Her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Hear the story of the Gentleman Robber, the romantic darling of the ladies and a tale about a wager over a sack of potatoes. But you'll have to tune in to learn who won that one. Some highwaymen were well mannered or faked it. People were concerned about the romanticism of robbers, but most were just thugs. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Call them robbers or bandits. Some are legendary figures. Listen to stories about historical crimes on Criminalia now, plus the cocktails and mocktails inspired by each. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dan Bush]

What happens when we come face to face with death?

[Ben Bullen]

My truck was blown up by a 20 pound anti tank mine. My parachute did not deploy. I was kidnapped by a drug cartel.

[Noel Brown]

I just remember everything getting dark. I'm dying.

[Dan Bush]

When we step beyond the edge of.

[Ben Bullen]

What we know to open our consciousness to something more than just what's in.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

That western box and return I clinically died.

[Noel Brown]

The heart stopped beating, which I was.

[Ben Bullen]

Dead for 11.5 minutes.

[Dan Bush]

My name is Dan Bush. My mission is simple. To find, explore and share these stories.

[Noel Brown]

I'm not a victim. I'm a survivor.

[Ben Bullen]

You're strongest when you're the most vulnerable.

[Dan Bush]

To remind us what it means to be alive. Not just that I was the guy that cut his arm off, but I'm the guy who is smiling when he cut his arm off. Alive Again, a podcast about the fragility of life, the strength of the human spirit and what it means to truly live. Listen to Alive again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Ben Bullen]

So here we are. We just gave you the quick skinny on the giant L' Oreal. It is worth over over US$238 billion.

[Noel Brown]

Today, which is, I believe, rivaling, if not a little surpassing the number we mentioned at the top for the entire hair dye industry, which was 200, no, 23 billion. That's for hair dye alone. L' Oreal has its little mitts, little gloved mitts and all kinds of stuff. Right. And owns subsidiaries and spin off brands and all of that as well.

[Ben Bullen]

And they all, all this success began with that hair dye innovation, kind of how Nintendo started as a playing card and bicycle company.

[Noel Brown]

Pivoted with the times.

[Ben Bullen]

They pivoted with the times, Noel. And look, now we're outside of World War I, we see that there is finally suffrage for women in some countries. There are more employment opportunities, there are options for birth control. So people are feeling like they're more recognized as people. They have more agency to express themselves. And this is where we see the flapper movement leaning into hair dye as an expression, right? A statement. So, you know, now you don't have to be scared of having bright red hair or platinum blonde hair for sure.

[Noel Brown]

And while not toxic, you know, poisonous, let's just say, I mean, certainly would be if you ingested it. But these still did contain irritants that would, like you said, Ben, could fry out your scalp, frizz out your hair, do long term damage to it, things like oxidizing and alkalizing agents such as hydrogen peroxide and ammonia. And hydrogen peroxide, of course, is something that we still hear about today as part of some of these hair. But as we know, folks are often willing to suffer for fashion and roll the dice in order to look cool, to look fashionable. However, it wasn't until 1930 that the actress Jean Harlow popularized probably one of the most gnarly and damaging processes to date, the bleaching of the hair.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, Gene Harlow, the first platinum blonde. And we have to go to Howard Hughes, who was the manager of Gene Harlow at the time. So they are working on a rom com, a romantic comedy called Platinum Blonde. And for this, Howard Hughes in classic soulless producer fashion, says we need something that really pops. And so he goes deep into figuring out how to make her the blondest of blondes. After Platinum Blonde, the film releases, Hughes is, he's kind of up his own butt about this. He's very Arrogant and proud of it.

[Noel Brown]

He was a bit of an oddball to Howard Hughes. If anyone's ever seen the Aviator, he had his hands in a lot of different stuff.

[Ben Bullen]

And his fingernails were long. They did get long. He hated. Hated nail clippers.

[Noel Brown]

Was he peeing milk jugs or something like that? Mason jars. The guy was troubled. And near the end, it was definitely a bad downward spiral for old Howard Hughes at the time. He is a Hollywood magnate, man of the town, mogul, aviator, et cetera. And we do need to point out that the medium in which this hair dye needed or this hair coloring needed to pop was black and white. It had a certain contrast that lent itself to the way black and white film looked and that differentiated her from like, you know, the average sort of more mop water blonde, as Ren describes it in her incredible outline brief. Howard Hughes, actually, you could also add to his list of accomplishments, kind of a hair dye. An entrepreneur, I guess he was working on mixing up the right combo to get that look that they were trying to achieve.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, it was definitely yelling at the people who knew what they were doing.

[Noel Brown]

That's true, Ben. That's a good point. I'm giving Howard way too much sort.

[Ben Bullen]

Of a, you know, sort of a ep. He was delegating.

[Noel Brown]

He was delegating harshly.

[Ben Bullen]

He was delegated aggressively.

[Noel Brown]

But where do they land, Ben? It's a really odd concoction of materials.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, they make this mix of hydrogen peroxide, sodium hypochlorite, bleach, ammonia, and essentially laundry soap. And after Platinum Blonde releases, Hughes is so into this affair Effect, he offers US$10,000 to anyone who can replicate the look of Platinum Blonde. Jean Harlo. And we have to do an inflation calculator. $10,000 at that time is roughly $207,000 in 2025 multiple.

[Noel Brown]

And he was not expecting to have to pay that money out. No wonder, with that bizarro list of ingredients that you rattled off, including, what was it, Ben? Lux? Laundry flakes.

[Ben Bullen]

Yes, yes. The last word in laundry soap. This is super bad for our hapless Jean Harlow. It's so toxic that later researchers think it may have this treatment for her hair may have contributed to her death from kidney failure after. We are sorry to report, folks, the young age of 26.

[Noel Brown]

Jeez, was she a drinker too? I'm not trying to victim blame her. I'm just wondering if there were any exacerbating. It seems like everybody was in those days.

[Ben Bullen]

What is it for kidneys, right? I know alcohol is bad for the liver.

[Noel Brown]

It's bad for liver. You're right. I don't know. There could be alcohol abuse. Can basically take out anything. It ain't good for kidney. Kidneys are purifiers as well.

[Ben Bullen]

It's not good. Great. We're saying kidneys make water, not poisonous to humans. That's it. Yeah. Kidneys are the little filters that you can't change out.

[Noel Brown]

Right? Exactly. Yeah. So that is sad. RIP Jean Harlow for sure. However, Howard Hughes's influence carried on into probably the blonde bombshell that most people think of. Marilyn. Marilyn Monroe.

[Ben Bullen]

Marilyn Monroe, yes. Yes. From earlier. And now we fast forward once more. This is how we're wrapping up the episode. It's 1950. There's a guy named Lawrence Gelb. He's got a wife named Jane Claire. They create the first single step hair dye that can lighten your hair without also destroying your head and possibly your kidneys.

[Noel Brown]

Man, man, you were delivering that with such intensity. I was sure they were going to pull off some sort of heist. But they did. They sort of did, though. A heist of young women's money. The couple's company, Clairol, you might have heard, still around today. And in fact, our research associate Rich, is a real booster of that brand, uses that brand of hair dye and is not ashamed to admit it. She says their flagship product was called Ms. Clairol color bath and became a huge hit with housewives because it could kind of boost their natural hues, hair colors, without being too obvious and making it look like they were trying too hard. So it really was more of like an enhancement than a total makeover. Right?

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, yeah. And I'm doing that because I don't love the name. I get the history.

[Noel Brown]

Color bath.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah. It's just. I don't know, man. Ms. Clairol color bath is whatever worked for the time.

[Noel Brown]

Sure it did. And of course, to Ren's point, Clairol very much still around. So.

[Ben Bullen]

So who are we to cast this version? I think another great point Ren makes here is that women at the top time in post World War II had experienced a greater degree of agency in U.S. society. And then people in power tried to pull the rug from beneath them. So the idea here becomes a concept of self expression and retaining one's agency. Now you don't have to go to a specialist, an expert. You can mess with your hair in your own house. Still, hair dye is not a mainstream beauty product at this point. And advertising companies pull another Bernays, just like our French buddy who created l' Oreal. And they try to normalize this. And they say, look, nobody can tell if you're actually using this. There's a 1956 Clairol ad that just says, dude, does she or doesn't she? Which is she or won't she bothers? Nice. Which is bothersome, Noel, because it reminds me of. Maybe it's makeup. Maybe it's Maybelline.

[Noel Brown]

Exactly. You know, well, maybe she's born with it.

[Ben Bullen]

Right? That's the one.

[Noel Brown]

They may have evolved it, but, yeah, that's the. That's the. The intent behind it.

[Ben Bullen]

No, you got it. You got it. And we see the results over time. In the 1950s, something like less than 10% of women in the US dyed their hair. Something between, you know, 4. And by the 70s, that figure has risen to a little north of 40%.

[Noel Brown]

So by 2015, an estimated 70% of American women were using hair dye, according to CNN. Women and men. Now, of course it is. You know, all bets are off. There's all kinds of new techniques and, you know, gradient dye jobs and multicolored things, split dye. I mean, like, it's so cool. My kid is a huge fan and changes their hair every couple of weeks, and I am here for it. And this is in no small part thanks to Tish and Snooki. We're getting to them. Bellamo. That was my first exposure to kind of punk rock hair color. I actually was known to have some funky hair colors when I was a little youthful upstart myself. These were two punk sisters. We use that in a positive term. They weren't saying punk kids from the Bronx. And they founded a company called Manic P. Panic.

[Ben Bullen]

That's the one.

[Noel Brown]

It's not temporary. It's highly permanent.

[Ben Bullen]

No, it's. I. I'm thinking of a different thing, but Manic Panic. Yeah.

[Noel Brown]

Manic Panic's the big one.

[Dexter Thomas]

Titian.

[Noel Brown]

Snooki's Manic Panic is how it's still branded today. They started this creative hair color line back in 1977.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah. And this is Hair is Fashion. Right. This is not meant to impersonate a natural hair color. This is to say, I have chosen bright blue or something like that. And we have to note again, the first thing we said at the top. Your body is your own. Your choices are your own. And that's a very important thing. So don't let people bully you about it. Embrace your imperatives. If you choose to dye your hair, at least you won't get lead poisoning. Now, that's for sure.

[Noel Brown]

And I did want to say, I remember very distinctly Growing up, at least at one of the schools that I went to, it was not allowed to have funky colored hair. It was very much for bowten, which is kind of interesting when you think back on it. Now it doesn't seem to be the case, at least at the school that my kid goes to, but that was a form of kind of shutting down, a form of creative expression because I can't think. But what are they gonna say? It's distracting. Like, give me a break. It just seems to me to be a way of keeping the drones in line. Yeah.

[Ben Bullen]

And everybody's childhood is unique. Every person is unique. We hope that you found this episode as fascinating as we did. We are not beauticians, we are not cosmetologists, nor hairdressers, but we are big fans of ridiculous history. We hope you are as well. Big, big thanks to everyone for tuning in. Big thanks to Our super producer, Mr. Max Williams, as well as our research associate for this, the legendary Ren.

[Noel Brown]

Indeed. This is a really fun one and we actually have a bunch of tangents and trivia that we're not gonna get to today that we are absolutely gonna snip out and put in a upcoming kind of compilation episode that I'm very excited to get to. Huge thanks to Christopher Osiotis, Anita Jeffcoats here in spirit. Jonathan Strickland, the quizzes AJ Bahamas Jacobs, the puzzler.

[Ben Bullen]

Big, big thanks thanks to our rude dudes over at Ridiculous Crime who recently made an appearance on the Puzzler. So no spoilers. Not going to tell you the answers to the puzzles Bahamas poses, but you should tune in. It is a treat as always to the hirsute and non hirsute alike. Thanks for joining us. You know, send us your weirdest haircuts. Have you seen that subreddit beat me here, Max? Just my shit up.

[Noel Brown]

I don't know about that one.

[Ben Bullen]

Oh, check it out, check it out.

[Noel Brown]

See you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Unknown]

Traveling is one of life's greatest journey joys. Honestly, can anything be more exhilarating? Well, actually, yeah. With Chase Sapphire Reserve, it's your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. First, you'll earn three times points for travel and dining. And the card gets you into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide and access to one of a kind experiences. Whether you're booking a once in a lifetime trip or your next weekend escape. Discover more with Chase Sapphire [e-mail] SapphireReserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply.

[Dexter Thomas]

Are there any pictures of you online? Then you could already be in a massive police database without even knowing it.

[Unknown]

Clearview scrapes together images from Facebook, from LinkedIn, from Venmo accounts.

[Dexter Thomas]

I'm Dexter Thomas, host of Kill Switch, a podcast about how living in the future is affecting us right now.

[Unknown]

Police, they are trusting the software with this magical physical ability to lead them to the right suspect.

[Dexter Thomas]

In this episode, we dive into how cops are using AI and facial recognition and sometimes getting it wrong and putting innocent people behind bars.

[Unknown]

So if your accuser is this algorithm, but you're not even being told that it was used, let alone given any of the details about how it works.

[Dexter Thomas]

Listen to Kill Switch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Daniel]

We love learning about this extraordinary universe.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

And we love sharing what we've learned.

[Daniel]

And on our podcast, Daniel and Kel Extraordinary Universe, that's what we're gonna do.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and I think our universe is absolutely extraordinary.

[Daniel]

I'm Kelly Wienersmith. I study parasites and there's just endless things about this universe that I find fascinating.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

Basically, we're both nerds.

[Daniel]

Each Tuesday and Thursday we take an hour long dive into some science topic.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

Learn all about our amazing and beautiful universe on Daniel and Kelly's extraordinary universe every Tuesday and Thursday on the iHeartra radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tremarky, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the Highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers, known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s, her legend persists nearly 400 years after her or death. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Find more crime and cocktails on Criminalia. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Noel Brown]

This is an iHeart podcast.