The Spiritualism Movement Was Utterly Ridiculous, Part Two: Con Artists, Skeptics, and Ghosts

Summary

---

Ridiculous History — "The Spiritualism Movement Was Utterly Ridiculous, Part Two: Con Artists, Skeptics, and Ghosts"

iHeartPodcasts | March 10, 2026
Hosts: Ben Bowlin & Noel Brown
Guest: Jonathan Strickland (a.k.a. The Quister)
Super Producer: Dylan "the Fox Brother" Fagan

---

Episode Overview

In this rich and often hilarious deep dive, Ben and Noel—joined by guest Jonathan Strickland—continue their exploration of the Spiritualism movement that captivated the English-speaking world in the 19th and early 20th centuries. After setting the stage in Part One with the Fox sisters and spiritualism’s explosive growth, Part Two exposes the movement’s underbelly: grief-driven gullibility, rampant con artistry, escalating spectacle, righteous skeptics, and the eventual public downfall. Both tragic and ridiculous, the episode also explores spiritualism's surprising ties to progressive causes, landmark exposures of fraud, and the enduring tension between hope, belief, and evidence.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Power of Grief & Spiritualism’s Rise

• Grief as a Gateway (06:00–08:50)
  • Jonathan references the quote from WandaVision: “What is grief but love persevering?” and highlights how spiritualism exploited persistent love in times of intense loss, especially post-Civil War.

    "It is such an incredible opportunity if you are of the unethical or amoral sort." – Jonathan [06:50]

  • Ben connects spiritualism’s boom to collective tragedy:

    “Families on both sides of that war encountered heartbreaking losses... So people want this explanation. We're desperately clinging to the idea that our loved ones are not really gone.” – Ben [08:33]

Spiritualism’s Sociopolitical Ties & Democratization

• Tied to Progressive Causes (10:16–11:47)

  • Spiritualism was unusually entwined with abolition and early suffrage, offering women a platform for public influence.

    “Spiritualism is inherently tied to progressive causes... giving female identifying people the right to vote.” – Ben [10:43]

• From Salons to Stage Shows (11:47–16:27)

  • Mediums multiplied and became celebrities, with competition breeding increasingly elaborate or sensational acts for legitimacy and financial gain.
  • Cora Hatch/Scott’s story highlights sexism and incredulity-face:

    “They said, oh, well, the only explanation is... spirits are real and the smart guys are speaking through this beautiful dumb person.” – Ben [13:18]

  • The spiritualism boom was compared (jokingly and insightfully) to the podcast boom during the pandemic.

Fraud, Criticism, and the Marketplace for Mediums

• Flood of Mediums and Escalating Spectacle (19:26–21:59)

  • The field became oversaturated, forcing mediums to invent new tricks (e.g., rapping, spirit writing, producing “ectoplasm”).

    “You are walking down the street... and you're saying, well, I've got $2. Why should I go see this one lady who just knocks on stuff and raps like her ghosts communicate through counting? Next Tuesday, there's another medium in town, and her ghost actually writes stuff down on little cards.” – Ben [19:58]

• Unmasking Fraud (21:59–23:20)

  • Investigators like the Sabert Commission (UPenn, 1884–87) found “provable evidence of fraud in every single case.”

    “They found evidence, provable evidence of fraud in every single case they examined.” – Ben [23:14]

Spectacular Skeptics and Bitter Fallout

• The Houdini–Doyle Rift (27:31–32:45)

  • Harry Houdini (staunch skeptic) and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (believer, Sherlock Holmes creator) suffered personal tragedy and turned to spiritualism for comfort—with opposite effects on their friendship.

    “Houdini read what was written, supposedly by his mother... His mother was not very fluent in English, but the message was written in perfect English.” – Jonathan [29:24]

  • The friendship ended when Houdini publicly denounced mediums (and Doyle’s wife), and later even called for criminalizing fortune telling:

    “He said we should criminalize fortune telling for hire... they are either deluded or they are grifters.” – Ben [31:34]

• Magicians as the Best Debunkers (33:17–34:56)

  • Magicians like James Randi are especially effective at exposing fraud because “science... does not anticipate that what you’re studying is trying to fool you.” – Jonathan [33:44]

The Fox Sisters’ Confession: The Death Knell

• A Public Unmasking (35:01–39:40)

  • In 1888, the Fox sisters confessed on stage that their “spirit rapping” was performed by cracking their joints—then partially recanted due to pressure.

    “This leads to the public declaration that I would argue ultimately sinks the movement.” – Ben [36:00] “We find out that spiritualism isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.” – Jonathan [37:28]

• Why Recant?

  • The sisters flip-flopped, pressured by both threats and their own financial hardships, showing the human complexities within large social movements.

The Aftermath and Legacy

• Movement’s Collapse & Enduring Influence (39:52–42:15)

  • After the confession, the organized spiritualist movement waned, though psychics and mediums persist, “never quite achieving their previous fame.”
  • Ghost stories and the appeal of the supernatural endure, despite lack of empirical evidence.

• Positive Legacy Amidst the Ridiculous (43:00–44:13)

  • Many women leveraged spiritualism for social advocacy, using their “platform” to promote abolition and suffrage under a mystical pretext.

    “Some of the most notable figures... used their fame to advocate for genuine social [change]... So they had a path to power by saying, look, it's not me because you guys hate women. It's the spirits...” – Ben [43:38]

  • The hosts reflect on the complicated legacy, acknowledging that despite wide fraud, spiritualism pushed some positive messages and opened a “path to power” for marginalized voices.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “What is grief but love persisting?” – Jonathan citing WandaVision [06:13]
• “Spectacle became an anticipated and expected element of a medium session. Right?” – Jonathan [21:26]
• “They found evidence, provable evidence of fraud in every single case they examined.” – Ben [23:14]
• “This is where we find out that spiritualism isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.” – Jonathan [37:28, after Fox sisters’ confession]
• “Aren't you already a ghost and your body is just a house you haunt?” – Ben [42:06]

---

Timeline of Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |------------|-----------------------------------| | 06:00–08:50| Grief as key to spiritualism’s rise & Civil War context | 10:16–11:47| Spiritualism's ties to progressive causes | 13:18–14:49| Cora Hatch exemplifies sexism in spiritualism | 19:26–21:59| Marketplace for mediums & theatrical competition | 21:59–23:20| Investigations unmasking fraud: Sabert Commission | 27:31–32:45| Houdini & Doyle’s friendship and bitter split | 33:17–34:56| Magicians as best investigators of spiritualist tricks | 35:01–39:40| The Fox sisters’ confession and recantation | 43:00–44:13| Reflecting on spiritualism’s positive sociopolitical impact

---

The Quister Segment (50:01–62:49)

Jonathan Strickland returns as "The Quister", delivering a four-part trivia challenge themed on skepticism and debunking. Ben and Noel debate, get tricked by a sly question about Jules Verne, and close the episode in fittingly ridiculous fashion.

---

Final Thoughts

The episode deftly balances comedy, skepticism, and empathy, exploring how a movement born of longing for connection became a hotbed for both progress and exploitation. Spiritualism’s story is a cautionary tale—about the dangers of unchecked belief, but also about the resilience of hope and the unexpected routes to social change.

Whether you’re a skeptic, a believer, or just a fan of bizarre history, this conversation brings both heart and humor, making the story of spiritualism as entertaining as it is thought-provoking.

---

Transcript

[A]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartradio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you as always so much for tuning in. Knock, knock, knock. Let's hear it for our super producer, Dylan the Fox brother Fagan.

[B]

Oh, yeah, love, love your barbecue.

[C]

Big fan.

[B]

Sorry, that's another very Atlanta centric reference.

[D]

Narrow casting.

[A]

We are, we are indeed. That's Noel Brown. They called me Ben Bullen. We're welcoming back returning guest brother Vows, friend, nemesis of the show, the one and only Jonathan Strickland, AKA Quizzer. And I gotta say, man, you were so well behaved in the first part of this journey.

[B]

Utterly mellow.

[D]

I mean, to be fair, you guys, every day I'm getting closer to being able to hold the other half of the conversation around spiritualism, you know, from the other side. So, like, it's just kind of put things into perspective.

[A]

There we go.

[B]

It'll do that depending on who's leading the the seance.

[D]

Yeah, I think if you have ridiculous references to science fiction films I've never seen, then, you know, hey, this is probably legit.

[A]

There we go. Yes. Previously on Ridiculous History. We explored the oft untold origin story of what is called the spiritualism movement, which became a huge deal in largely English speaking countries in the 19th and 20th century. So please check out part one where we left you. Spiritualism was skyrocketing in popularity. Three people named the Fox sisters became sort of harbingers and precedents for many other self described mediums to follow. Maybe we start here, guys.

[B]

If you're a maintenance supervisor at a manufacturing facility, your job is a little like being a historian. You have to keep the past alive,

[A]

including your older machines. So when you notice a set of drive belts is showing wear and tear, you call on Grainger.

[B]

Grainger makes it easy to find and order the products you need. And their next day delivery can help you keep your machines working like the day they were made, no matter how long ago that was.

[A]

So call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[C]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's stock up savings time now through March 31st. Spring in for store wide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Oreo, Haagen, Dazs, Charmin, Tide, Sparkling Ice, Reese's and Special K. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pickup or delivery restrictions apply. See website for terms and conditions.

[E]

I can't do it today. I already have plans. Something came up. There are a million reasons to put off a cancer screening, but one reason to keep it early detection can save lives.

[F]

Every screening, every result, every early detection matters. At Pfizer, we're fighting against cancer, aiming

[E]

for eight cancer breakthroughs by 2030.

[F]

Join the fight against cancer and get Screened [e-mail] Screenings support for the show

[G]

comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you backtested against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures [e-mail] Disclosures hi, it's Eva

[E]

and I think it's about time you discovered the world's first luxury hospitality brand at sea. The Ritz Carlton Yacht Collection Imagine setting sail on an all inclusive voyage where every moment is entirely yours. Explore the Amalfi coast, the islands of Thailand or Alaska's glacial fjords and the lagoons of French Polynesia. Or maybe just stay aboard and indulge in a spa day, dining from Michelin starred chefs and kayaking directly from the exclusive marina platform. There are so many possibilities and so much time to relax every journey. Unlike the rest, the Ritz Carlton Yacht Collection Learn more at Ritz Carlton YachtCollection.com.

[A]

No you remember in Part one Jonathan made this fascinating and disturbing point about spiritualism kind of surviving through personal grief.

[B]

Well, sure. And just how powerful and rife for manipulation the experience of grief can be

[D]

Yeah, I know it's silly to quote, like, a streaming TV series about these sort of things that's so, you know, trivial. But WandaVision, the MCU thing, had a great quote, or I think it's a great quote. What is grief but love per. Persisting? And you think about that persistent love. It's a horrible thing to think about, of someone exploiting a person's love and their loss, and yet it is such an incredible opportunity if you are of the unethical or amoral sort.

[B]

Well, that's a really good point, Jonathan, because so often we see love being weaponized in, like, honeypot type traps, for example, and, you know, spy scenarios where someone will prey on an individual's either romantic love or lust or what have you. But, you know, we hear so many horror stories about people being manipulated through, you know, false showings of affection, and this is the inverse of that, or it's the other side of that, because the love persisting for an actual, you know, a child or a sibling or, you know, a partner, you can just as easily glom on and capitalize on that.

[D]

And we're at a stage in United States history, mid 19th century, where a massive event is going to impact the entire nation and compound this situation where feelings are running super high. And there is, sadly, the great tragedy of thousands upon thousands of lives lost.

[A]

Right? Yeah. In one of the worst named wars ever, the US Finds itself divided in something called the Civil War, from 1861 to 1865, despite being just a few years long, this is a terrible event for the nation. It's a real reckoning. So many people die. This means that spiritualism doesn't just survive during this period, it thrives. And it may sound ghoulish, but as we pointed out here, families on both sides of that war encountered heartbreaking losses of children, spouses, parents, friends. So people want this explanation. We're desperately clinging to the idea that our loved ones are not really gone.

[D]

And I'm sure there were individuals who genuinely wanted to give comfort to others who were not trying to exploit people, who were actually attempting to make other families feel whole again. But those few people with good intentions may have been outnumbered by those who just saw opportunity to make some money.

[A]

Well said. And, you know, since we're telling the truth plain here, I can't help but draw a tangential comparison to the way the. The pandemic lockdown was very good for the podcast business.

[D]

To the point where everybody had one.

[A]

To the point where everybody had one.

[B]

People talking about boom time.

[D]

Hey, Hey, y', all, do you remember, do you remember back when you started podcasting and the average person had not even understood what a podcast was? Yeah.

[B]

And there were dozens, maybe hundreds, but certainly not, you know, countless millions.

[D]

Yeah, that we had. Yeah.

[B]

Absolutely immeasurable. That's funny though. Boom time does imply sort of like everyone's making money hand over fist doing this. And certainly that's not the case with podcasting. Exactly. Because there's a lot of them. Doesn't mean everyone's successful. But in the boom time of spiritualism, there was certainly a lot of money being made.

[A]

Absolutely. And it's interesting, this differentiates it from so many other spiritual or religious movements because during the boom years, during the halcyon age of spiritualism, there was very little in the way of canonical text or formal organization. Spiritualism instead was more intellectual, salon, scientific pursuit stuff. You would see publications in trades or in magazines. You would have what we call trance lecturers who went on quite lucrative tours. And then you would have the performances of mediums. There's an interesting socioeconomic thing that occurs here as well. Spiritualism is inherently tied to progressive causes that are inarguably really good ideas like the abolition of slavery or giving female identifying people the right to vote.

[D]

Yeah, it's, it's. You cannot, you know, just wholeheartedly dismiss spiritualism as, as, as a mistake or a bad movement when there are these other elements that are involved. You know, it's one of those things where getting that big picture look is important to have a full understanding and appreciation of what the world was going through, largely the English speaking world, as Ben has mentioned, like that spiritualism was very much a prominent thing in the UK and the United States.

[B]

Well, couldn't we lump in just things like fortune telling and tarot card reading and tea leave reading and all that stuff kind of in this movement?

[D]

I mean, I certainly would, but I also am very good friends with a witch identifying person. And so please don't let her hear this episode.

[B]

Well, no, but my point is though, I don't think there's anything wrong at all with people who do tarot or oracle cards or astrology or things like that, because I don't know, I feel like you kind of know what you're signing up for if you're paying someone to read your cards or read your charts or whatever. What we're talk about here is something that's much more insidious, predatory focused and. Predatory.

[A]

Predatory is a good word. Yeah, we know. For instance, we'll, we'll Give you one example of a very popular lecturer around this time, right before the Civil War, there's a person known as Cora Hatch or Cora LV Scott. And I think her story really speaks to the baked in prejudice of the time. So her audience would see her and during her speaker time, she was a pretty, young, vivacious kind of person. So these audiences would show up in the hundreds and they would say, look at this. Look at this absolute smokeshow. How is she so young and so beautiful, yet speaks with such eloquence? In other words, they expected her to be dumb as rocks. And they, because she did not sound knuckleheaded, they said, oh, well, the only explanation is that we're not wrong. Spirits are real and the smart guys are speaking through this beautiful dumb person.

[D]

Yeah. It reminds me of how some people use the phrase well spoken in a sense that when you hear it, depending upon whom it's being applied to, you're thinking you're sounding kind of racist.

[A]

Didn't I just say that to you?

[B]

Like, it's like, man, you sure talk talk good for a woman.

[D]

You've never articulate. You have never said that to me, Ben.

[B]

Thank goodness. But good on Cora Hatch, though, for. I mean, there are certain aspects of society that I'm totally okay with taking advantage of, and that's one of them.

[D]

Yeah, you're talking about.

[B]

There is like, yeah, capitalize on all these dumb dumbs thinking that you're only smart because there are spirits moving through you. Like, take their money.

[D]

It is. I mean, like, we talked in the last episode about how the Fox sisters became kind of a diversion and entertainment for the upper crust. And there is a certain element of eat the rich that appeals to me with that. Like, it's not like they're preying upon impoverished people who are grieving. If it becomes like a parlor show, it's the people who can afford to go that are really.

[B]

Sadly, though, as things like this get democratized and more popular, then you are going to start seeing people that are trying to find their niche. And that may well be, you know, taking from the less.

[D]

Are we talking about podcasts again? Because we could be.

[A]

Oh, come on. All right, we're moving on.

[D]

All right.

[A]

So this. During this era, we also see very successful folks like Asha W. Sprague or Paschel Beverly Randolph, both of whom are fascinating enough to be their own episodes, essentially. To Noel, to your earlier point about democratization and scale, if you are the average American during this time, maybe you cannot afford to go to a Seance or to commission a medium. But you cannot get away from conversations about this stuff. It's similar to the success of television shows like Seinfeld, Friends, Game of Thrones or Lost. This is what people talk about constantly.

[B]

I guess what I'm getting at too is like everyone can't be the top dollar earning medium. There's gotta be some bargain basement ones coming into the mix, taking advantage of different markets. Yeah, and this is new psychics.

[D]

You want to aim for the middle. You want the median medium in order to really. Exactly, you know, like, what was it?

[B]

Medium.

[D]

Median at large. Small. Medium at large. Yeah, large. If you need to hear the rest of that joke, you've heard the punchline already. But listen to the first episode. Episode.

[B]

God help you if you haven't already.

[D]

Yeah, I was.

[B]

What are you even doing?

[D]

Yeah, I was thinking that, that this is. There were people who were suffering profound grief, who were preyed upon by unethical people who, who saw the opportunity there. Right. And in, you can see this also in other words, forms of supernatural occupations like dousers, for example, where you have someone who has a definitive need and someone else.

[B]

Douser is referring to the wielders of these special sticks that could find you

[D]

water or oil or all sorts of different things. Right.

[B]

It's a little bit hand in hand with snake oil type stuff as well.

[D]

Again, you've identified something that people have a need for. And, and in the case of mediums, it's often grief that you're looking to exploit. But there can be other things too. Like let's say that someone passes away and they were rumored to be in possession of a great fortune, but no one knows where that is. Well, now you have greed playing a part. Right. And if you have someone who's like, oh, I can give these people hope that they can find this alleged fortune, they can take advantage of that as well. So these are things that we see repeated throughout history. The spiritualism movement, I think, is a great way of looking at it in sort of a microcosm of because it's so well defined. But that same activity happens today where you have people who identify. All right, let's go after the basest instincts of humanity. Greed, pride, fear, grief. Which isn't, I would argue, base, but same sort of thing. And by targeting that, we know that people are more likely to go along with whatever your scheme is.

[A]

Absolutely. You know, we see this then as now, same as it ever was, as the old song says. We also know that in the heyday of spiritualism, of course there was constant talk, but constant talk is not always inherently complementary. So even from the jump from way back in the Rochester days, there were ardent critics of spiritualism. Eventually, their arguments. I wouldn't even call them arguments. Their observations win out and they lead to the fall of this larger movement. First off, the money is great for a second. I love that concept of TEMU psychics, because the Fox sisters are harbinger and they are precedent. They create an industry. They say, look, you don't have to churn butter or whatever people are doing. You can just be a medium. You can be a psychic, you can make a living.

[D]

They're almost literally the poster children of the spiritualist movement.

[A]

100% dude. And so now we see a old school capitalism thing happening. The marketplace for mediums. And I am trying so hard not to compare this too much to podcasting, the marketplace for mediums becomes increasingly competitive, and everybody has to have their own shtick. Right.

[D]

It's oversaturated, over saturated. There we go.

[A]

So now you are walking down the street in the late 1800s and you're saying, well, I've got $2. Why should I go see this one lady who just knocks on stuff and raps like her ghosts communicate through counting. Next Tuesday, there's another medium in town, and her ghost actually writes stuff down on little cards.

[D]

Yeah. Or this one down the street can produce ectoplasm, and you won't believe where it comes from.

[A]

We were talking about this a little bit off air, folks, to decide whether or not ectoplasm should be its own episode. We are a PG13 show, so Ghost goo.

[D]

Yeah, we'll. We'll leave out what I'm referencing because it's just. It's not appropriate.

[B]

I believe it was covered in a South park episode as well, if I'm not mistaken.

[A]

There's also, you know, just the fact that cheesecloth in and of itself is kind of gross.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. But this idea of creating various effects so that you can stand out among the other mediums, I mean, it did become competitive where spectacle became an anticipated and expected element of a medium session. Right. If you were to just go to someone who was just like, rolling their eyes a little bit and then speaking in a slightly different voice, it might not impress upon you that it's money well spent compared to going someplace where the table appears to levitate an inch off the ground at one point. And other such effects which became commonplace in these. And that also became an inroad for people who are thinking, that sounds like that's not real. To be able to investigate. You got.

[A]

Yeah, the people who have to be the fun police and come in and say, look, I love a show, you know, I love a good time, dinner and a movie. Who doesn't? But I do want to know whether or not you are acting in good faith. This is where we see concurrent with the rise of multiple self reported mediums, we see the rise of independent investigators. These folks begin to notice a troubling pattern. Whether or not the mediums under question really believe they're speaking with ghosts. Fraud is widespread. You see stuff like the Sabert Commission of 1884-1887. It's out of UPenn and it started posthumously by this big to do over at UPenn. His name's Henry Siebert. He believes that spiritualism is real. And so in his will he creates funding for this commission to investigate it. And now we're the poor boffins, the sons of Siebert, if you will, who have to investigate multiple so called mediums. Get this. They found evidence, provable evidence of fraud in every single case they examined.

[D]

Yeah. Which makes you think that if mediums, if any of those mediums were, you know, legit, that Siebert himself would have a lot to say. Right?

[C]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's stock up savings time now through March 31st. Bring in for storewide deals and earn four times of points. Look for in store tags to earn uneligible items from Activia, General Mills, Nature Valley, A and W, Monster Energy, Coffee Mate and Pete's Coffee. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings. When you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pickup or delivery restrictions apply. See website for terms and conditions.

[G]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stock, stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks generated assets. Assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail]

[E]

hi, it's Eva and I think it's about time you discovered the world's first luxury hospitality brand at sea. The Ritz Carlton Yacht Collection Imagine setting sail on an all inclusive voyage where every moment is entirely yours. Explore the Amalfi coast, the islands of Thailand, or Alaska's glacial fjords and the lagoons of French Polynesia. Or maybe just stay aboard and indulge in a a spa day, dining from Michelin starred chefs and kayaking directly from the exclusive marina platform. There are so many possibilities and so much time to relax every journey. Unlike the rest. The Ritz Carlton Yacht Collection Learn more at ritz carlton yachtcollection.com last support through

[F]

telehealth, but it feels overwhelming and rushed. Check out orderlymeds.com now. Orderlymeds.com was built to be different. Here you connect with real doctors who take the time to understand your goals, review your eligibility, and guide you through a plan that's right for you. Orderly Meds provides access to proven GLP1 medications like semaglutide and Tirzepatide, including both name brand options and personalized compound versions when appropriate. So you have choices backed by clinical oversight, not guesswork. It's a simpler, more supportive telehealth experience designed around people who want clarity, care and confidence in their weight loss journey. And your medication is delivered directly to your home in discreet packaging so your experience stays private from start to finish. Do your research, ask the right questions, then visit orderlymeds.com podcast for an exclusive offer. Again, that's orderlymeds.com podcast. Individual results may vary. Not medical advice, eligibility required. See Cite for details.

[D]

Every small business owner has that one moment that could have broken them, but remarkably, it didn't. Hi, I'm Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business and on season three of the Unshakeables, my co host Kathleen Griffith and I are bringing you more incredible stories of overcoming the impossible. Listen to the Unshakeables wherever you get your podcasts and learn [e-mail] podcast JP Morgan, Chase bank and a member FDIC. Copyright 20 and 26 JP Morgan Chase Company.

[A]

So spiritualism's creating famous mediums. It's also elevating famous skeptics. You know, Jonathan, you and Nolan, Dylan and I were chatting through our notes a little bit off air, and we see that this investigation of spiritualism and its claims also ruined some friendships and made some enemies. Like Houdini and Doyle.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. Harry Houdini and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. So to set the stage a bit, both men had suffered tragedy in their lives that drew them towards spiritualism. It's just that their journeys took very different paths. In Houdini's case, he never really got over the loss of his mother. When his mother passed away, it deeply affected him. In Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's case, his son Kingsley perished during the Great War, so what we would now call World War I. But back then they didn't call it that because they were still optimistic. And so they both had suffered great loss and they both turned towards spiritualism because it offered the possibility of comfort and closure. But Houdini began to come to the conclusion that in every instance that he saw, as far as spiritualism was concerned, it was a matter of fraud, and Doyle still saw the possibility. And the reason why this ultimately led to the dissolution of their friendship is that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's wife Jean was a medium and offered to do a session to contact Houdini's mother. Jean would do automatic writing, which is where you're just moving a pen around on paper and then occasionally it seems to scribble out words and you're kind of vibe coding. Yeah. And Houdini read what was written, supposedly by his mother through Jean, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's wife. And his conclusion was that his mother was not very fluent in English, but the message was written in perfect English. And so there came this confrontation of Houdini saying, this is balderdash, and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle saying, that's my wife. And the friendship never recovered. And then years, a few years later, Houdini famously got punched to death and. And in the gut. Yeah. And they never. They never resolved their differences. And so this was like a friendship of two, like, greats in history. Like, I think kids today, even if they've never seen or read anything about Houdini, have heard the name, like, and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, like, obviously, Sherlock continues to have a massive impact as, like every four or five years we get a new adaptation of Sherlock Holmes or some spin off or something.

[B]

And I didn't realize how Popular. Those Robert Downey Jr.

[D]

Ones were.

[B]

They made a gazillion dollars.

[A]

Some of those adaptations are good.

[D]

Yeah, they are.

[B]

I mean, particularly the Benedict Cumberbatch.

[D]

Yeah. And then you have, you know, these two people who were legitimate friends and then really had a massive falling out over spiritualism. That, to me, is a fascinating story. It's also, I mean, it's been depicted in books and plays and things like that. It's not something that's like a bit of minutiae. I think people who have an interest in this are aware of that particular relationship and how it fell apart. But to me, it's just one of those tragic stories of two people who were really suffering and struggling with their grief, having profoundly different experiences when they were seeking a way to process that and how that could tear them apart.

[A]

And to be fair, Houdini was pretty strident. Houdini was not putting it lightly. Yeah. Not making the point that we made in our first episode of this series. We. We agree that everybody's belief should be your own as long as you don't foist it upon others. Houdini, however, a few months before he got punched to death, was so hardcore about this skepticism that he went before the U.S. congress and he said we should criminalize fortune telling for hire. Anybody who pretends to in any way. How do you put it? Unite the separated, should be treated as a criminal because they are either deluded or they are grifters. And he thought most of them were grifters. It's a shame to see such a great bromance break up in that way. But it is spelling the fall of the movement because there are countless allegations of fraud. Not just allegations, but proof of fraud. Right. We're finding how the ectoplasm is produced. We're finding how the table appears to move.

[D]

Yeah. Wedging the table between your toe and the palm of your hand so that you can, by lifting your foot, make the table levitate. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So it seems so basic to us now, but we have to understand the people who believed in this. They were no smarter nor dumber than anybody living today.

[D]

Yeah. So I want to give a couple more points that I think back up what you're saying. First of all, remember that a lot of the people who were seeking this out were motivated to believe.

[A]

Believe.

[D]

Right. Because to not believe is to give up hope. And as Noel pointed out very well in our first episode, hope is an incredible motivator. Right. And to. To abandon hope is just such a dark concept. We don't want to really pursue that. And another point is that even scientists today can be fooled by these things. And you might think, well, that. That. That seems weird because you're. You'd be. You know, science is meant to be rational and logical and approach this in a certain way. But science also typically does not anticipate that whatever you're studying is trying to fool you. Right? So. So it can. Scientists can sometimes overlook cases of fraud because in their usual operations, there's not an actual attempt to mislead taking place. Which is why I think a lot of magicians actually are much better at uncovering these things than scientists are. Because a magician's job is to fool people. So they know how this works. They know how the operations work in order to fool someone. It's why people like Penn, Jillette, and Teller are so good at that kind of thing. James Randi was really good at that kind of thing. These are people whose whole existence was about fooling people. And so they. They know the tools of the trade, and they can recognize when other people are using it. Not to entertain, but to exploit.

[A]

I think that's a great point. And wait for it. Well said, John.

[D]

Oh, thank you.

[A]

I appreciate it. I mean, no, it's the perfect way to put this right. We see the motivations of the people that we would call the participants or the rubes or the marks, but we also see the blind spot of a lot of potential investigators and the nail in the coffin. Or if we want, the final knock on the seance table comes when the Fox sisters go forward in public and say, whoopsie. Hey, this is a prank. It got away from us. We were making up the whole thing.

[D]

It was funny when we started. And then it quickly got to a point where if we were to admit that we were manufacturing all of this, we were afraid of what would happen.

[A]

Just like Looper.

[D]

Just like looper.

[A]

In 1888, Maggie and Kate Fox travel back to the Big Apple, and there, a reporter offers them a pretty significant sum of money for the time and says, we'll give you $1,500 if you expose your methods and you give me an exclusive on the story. This leads to the public declaration that I would argue ultimately sinks the movement.

[D]

Yeah, Mr. Moneybags, I would argue $1,500 is still significant. I don't know about you, but I mean, if someone were to offer me $1,500, I'd be like, okay, let's talk. Yeah, for sure.

[A]

We're also not paying Jonathan to be here.

[D]

That's true. I haven't been paid in so long, guys.

[A]

So Maggie in particular, Maggie Fox, appears at the New York Academy of music on October 21, 1888. Her sister, her younger sister Kate, is in the crowd. And there are, like 2,000 people here. This is where Maggie, or Margaret, if you want to know her full Christian. This is where she demonstrates how those knocks and wraps occur. She produces it by cracking her joints. And she says, wait, my sisters do this as well?

[B]

Yeah, I think the toes in particular, because they were, you know, under the table, couldn't really see them.

[D]

Yeah. This is where we find out that spiritualism isn't all it's cracked up to be. See yourself out, sir. It was nice being here.

[A]

So in. In just the span of like, almost less than a year in 1889, Maggie recants her confession. She signs this letter and says, essentially, my bad for serial spiritualism is omg, it's so real. I was doing this for a different reason, but I'm back on the team. We think that happened due to social pressure and due to financial woes, because at this point in time, it's a lot like. It's a lot like your favorite singer songwriter saying, guys, music is bs. It's like Tom York coming out and saying, I think guitars are made up.

[B]

Anyone can play guitar, he would say.

[A]

And then he comes back. Or Tom York, in this example, comes back and says, no, I'm kidding. No one can play guitar but me. And it's very important.

[D]

I mean, again, at this point, we're talking about decades of the spiritualism movement growing and evolving and entire people's livelihoods depending upon it, or families that have sought some form of closure or comfort, and then to be told, oh, it's all based on a lie. Like, you could see where people would turn on her for multiple reasons, whether it was driven by greed or by emotional turmoil. And why she might feel the pressure to recant her confession because, like, to do otherwise, she could be in financial peril, physical peril. She could just feel terrible that people.

[B]

She could also be responsible for toppling the entire industry and so many other people depend on for their livelihood.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, God knows that could lead to some serious, you know, action. Yeah, she could be attacked or. Yeah, no, it's scary stuff.

[A]

Can you imagine if she had a Twitter account? You know what I mean?

[D]

Wait, a wad account? I don't recognize that name. Does that even exist anymore?

[B]

You mean x.com, the everything app?

[A]

All right. Oh, anyway, speaking of cesspools, the Damage was done. We do know that the Fox sisters continued on in their own ways to try to do tours, try to do consultations. They never quite achieved their previous fame and mediums overall, psychics, oracles, as a practice. They were here before the spiritualism movement, so they continued. There are a lot of self reported mediums that exist today, but the spiritualism movement, the spiritualist movement itself never recovered. Society moved on to new obsessions, new interests, indeed new moral panics. And so far as we can tell, as We Record Thursday, February 26, 2026 no one has spoken to a ghost

[B]

that we know of.

[A]

That we know of. Or maybe ghosts are just like snooty to us. You guys.

[D]

Yeah, I mean like I love. I said in the first episode that when I was in elementary school I read up on all these things. I still love the idea of ghosts. And ghost stories are still some of my favorite stories of all time. Ghost in the horror genre, of which I am a major fan, ghost stories are my absolute. That's peak for me for horror. Like some people love slasher movies, some people love gore movies. For me it's a ghost story. If it's a well made ghost story I am in. And so it still speaks to me, even though I do not personally believe in ghosts and have never spoken to one, at least not knowingly. Maybe it overheard me, but I didn't know about it. And I still love a good ghost story. I just don't. I just don't believe in them.

[A]

I'm also a big horror fan and I know you and I have some philosophical differences in how much unfounded belief we will allow into our lives. To you, I would respond, Jonathan Strickland, aren't you already a ghost and your body is just a house you haunt?

[D]

No, I'm just. I'm haunting a meat sack.

[A]

Right. Yeah.

[D]

If anyone is curious, one of my favorite ghost movies is a. It's a classic 1980 ghost film, the Changeling with George C. Scott. First two acts are incredible. The third act goes bananas. But the. For the first two acts of that movie, I am. I could not be happier. The third act does get super duper crazy and I go with it because I've already enjoyed the first two acts. But yeah, if you haven't seen the Changeling, seek it out.

[B]

I always confuse that one with the Yearling, which is the one about the small horse.

[D]

Yeah, well, and there's also a movie called Changeling, not the Changeling. Right. So there's lots of things you can confuse it with.

[B]

But I'll check it out.

[D]

That's good.

[A]

Yeah, we'll check it out. We also want to end on. Well, first off, folks, thank you for joining us, humans and spirits alike. We wanted to end on one fair point. In the interest of objectivity, this is a bit of a quandary. I think it's a pickle for all of us. A real bag of badgers. So far as we can tell, this movement was a bunch of flim flam. But was it all bad? Some of the most notable figures in the spiritualism or spiritualist movement, they used their fame to advocate for genuine social. A lot of these most prominent people were women in a society that would typically ignore them. So they had a path to power by saying, look, it's not me because you guys hate women. It's the spirits who say that slavery is bad. It's the spirits who say that everyone should vote. And somebody in the back was like, are those spirits dudes? And she said that. Yeah. I don't know. I think there is something positive to take from this.

[D]

I think so. Overall, if I were to weigh this in, the great balance of positive versus negative, I think we come down on negative more than positive. But the positives are pretty profound. Whether or not it moved the needle, at least it was something that was pushing against the needle. Right? So I have a conflicted feeling about this. Again, having that love since elementary school of ghosts and stuff. When I was a teenager, I had a love of the skeptical side of the equation and that's kind of where I developed my worldview of critical thinking and skepticism and things of that nature. So since this is post transformation, it is hard for me to reckon with the positives of spiritualism. But it is impossible for me to deny that there that there were such positive outcomes or positive messaging.

[C]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's stock up savings time now through March 31st. Bring in for storewide deals entertainment earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Oreo, Haagen, Dazs, Charmin, Tide, Sparkling Ice, Reese's and Special K. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pickup or delivery restrictions apply. See website for terms and conditions.

[G]

Support for the show comes from public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options Crypto and now Generated Assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purpose purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures [e-mail] Disclosures hi, it's Eva

[E]

and I think it's about time you discovered the world's first luxury hospitality brand at sea. The Ritz Carlton Yacht Collection. Imagine setting sail on an all inclusive voyage where every moment is entirely yours. Explore the Amalfi coast, the islands of Thailand, or Alaska's glacial flight fjords and the lagoons of French Polynesia. Or maybe just stay aboard and indulge in a spa day, dining from Michelin starred chefs and kayaking directly from the exclusive marina platform. There are so many possibilities and so much time to relax every journey unlike the rest. The Ritz Carlton Yacht Collection learn more@ritzcarlton yachtcollection.com are you trying to get weight

[F]

loss support through telehealth? But it feels overwhelming and rushed? Check out orderlymeds.com now. Orderlymeds.com was built to be different. Here you connect with real doctors who take the time to understand your goals, review your eligibility and guide you through a plan that's right for you. Orderly Meds provides access to proven GLP1 medications like semaglutide and Tirzepatide, including both name brand options and personalized compound versions when appropriate, so you have choices backed by clinical oversight site, not guesswork. It's a simpler, more supportive telehealth experience designed around people who want clarity, care and confidence in their weight loss journey. And your medication is delivered directly to your home in discreet packaging so your experience stays private from start to finish. Do your research, ask the right questions, then visit orderlymeds.com podcast for an exclusive offer. Again, that's orderlymeds.com podcast. Individual results may vary not medical advice Eligibility Report acquired zsight for details

[D]

Every small business owner has that one moment that could have broken them. But remarkably, it didn't. Hi, I'm Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business and on season three of the Unshakeables, my co host Kathleen Griffith and I are bringing you more incredible stories of overcoming the impossible. Listen to the Unshakeables wherever you go. Get your podcasts and learn [e-mail] podcast JP Morgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC Copyright 20 and 26 JP Morgan Chase Co.

[A]

And maybe this is where we leave it because we have so much more to explore regarding the role of science and the supernatural. Regarding of course, ectoplasm. Look that one up. Maybe not on your work computer. Noel, I've got to commend Jonathan. I think you can join me here as well on this. Got to commend Jonathan for keeping it together for two episodes, not exercising a

[B]

little self control a little bit.

[A]

Damn it.

[D]

It's time gentlemen.

[B]

I knew it was too More Recent Listeners Sorry. We're sorry. This is happening.

[D]

Welcome one and all to the most cringe worthy segment in all of podcasting as I the Quiz stir match wits against these ne' er do Wells, Ben and Doel.

[B]

And you should have known when you did that that joke at the top of the first episode he was coming

[A]

for us the whole time.

[B]

No, it's true. This is.

[D]

I was biding my time. It took just a mere three hours out of my day to be able to do this.

[A]

Jonathan Strickland, AKA the Quizter. You son of a gun. You've returned once again to ridiculous history. Does our old game still hold?

[D]

It does. I shall present to you four scenarios, three of which are true and one which I made up. Seize. And tis your duty to determine which of the four is the false one. And in this case, I have given you stories about skepticism, debunking and belief. So four separate stories that tangentially relate to the topic of discussion. And you will.

[B]

We're not doing this as video yet, but I just want everyone to know that I have laid back like I'm on a fainting couch just to just to make sure sure that I can, you know, deal with this.

[D]

Once we get to video, I'm going to get one of those fancy lights so I get a nice dark red on me when I ever I'm quizzed.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

From underneath.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. We've also almost paid off that grandfather clock that we have to use.

[D]

Nice. Yes. You will have three minutes to discuss amongst yourselves which of the four is the false one. If you need all three minutes, you may. You may sniff out the false one right away. I will admit this time it was because I was so interested in the topic, I didn't spend that much time crafting a really good one. So. So spoiler alert on that. And here we go. Scenario number one. Lucien of Samosata was an early, very early skeptic. He was born sometime around 125 in the common era in in Syria. He was known to be quite the smartass, with works that contained heaps of sarcasm. Lucian didn't shy away from calling out fraud and superstition, and his works include the Dialogues of the Gods, a collection of satirical pieces about the Greek pantheon. But my favourite target of his was Alexander, a Greek man who styled himself a mystic and oracle. Lucian described him as a fraud and thief. Moreover, he claims that Alexander would regularly rile up his followers to go put the hurt on anyone whom he identified as being trouble. Lucian's work exposed Alexander as a false prophet, a label I suspect Lucian would apply to all prophets. Scenario II in 1836, Edgar Allan Poe penned an essay titled titled Meltzer's Chess Player. This piece set out to debunk the famous mechanical Turk device, an automaton that appeared to play chess. It was originally built by Johann Wolfgang Ritter von Kimlin de Pasmand a century earlier. Johann, well done. Thank you. Johann Wolfi wasn't really that interested in presenting his invention as the genuine article. But after his death death, subsequent owners were not so scrupulous. Meltzer would present the device as an actual chess playing automaton capable of winning most chess games. Poe suspected that a person was inside the device doing all the playing, though his reasoning was a bit off. Poe believed that because the Turk would occasionally lose a game, there had to be a human controlling it, because machines would always play perfectly. Scenario three. Back in 1860, Jules Verne wrote a novel titled Paris in the 20th Century. It was set in gay Paris in 1960, one century in Verne's future. It would not see publication until 1994, having been initially suppressed and then sort of just set aside. In the novel Novel, Verne poses that technological advancements will strip away superstition in Paris, revealing beyond deniability that there is no supernatural element in the world. As a result of machines doing all the work and Parisians having a clear view of reality, people are free to pursue their passions, and Paris becomes the nexus of expression and creativity. Verne appears to argue that opportunists who depend upon naive and gullible followers are a major hurdle. Doyle for progress. Now, scenario number four. How about a tale of debunking the debunkers? In his collection of works titled the History of Spiritualism, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was quick to dismiss skeptics and critics of the spiritualist movement in his introduction. He went so far to say, and I'm paraphrasing here, that Frank Podmore cherry picked data points and facts to support a skeptical view of mediums and such, while he called Joseph McCabe's work that was titled A Popular History an absolute travesty because of McCabe's insistence that various practitioners were, in fact, fraudsters. Doyle thus makes his bias undeniably clear in the introduction of his work. It's a bit of a blow for those of us who thought of Doyle as a champion of rationality. Those are your four scenarios. You gentlemen, you may ask me a question if you wish. You have to preface your question with I didn't think this one through. Obviously. You'll need to preface your question with is that a knock I hear at the door? And then you can ask me. Start your time.

[A]

Okay. I'm running to our grandfather clock that we spent way too much of our budget on. Okay, timer strike started.

[B]

Slam dunked it, Ben.

[A]

Oh, thanks, bro.

[B]

Jeez Louise.

[D]

Let's see.

[B]

I need a rehash of the first one, frankly, if that's okay. Hold on one second. A knock. Is that a knock I hear upon the.

[D]

Close enough. No.

[B]

Okay, thank you.

[D]

All right, so your quick synopsis. You have an ancient Syrian skeptic, Lucien of Samasata, who debunked a man named Alexander, who claimed to be a prophet and proved or attempted to prove through various writings that Alexander was just a fraud who got his followers to beat up anybody who said otherwise.

[A]

Okay, Ben, is that a knock I hear at the door?

[D]

Yes, Mr. Bolin.

[A]

All right, question for you quizzles, is, out of these four scenarios, is the fake one totally fake, or does it combine elements of truth?

[D]

I mean, there are elements of truth, but the central point is fake.

[A]

Okay, Noel, I think it's number one.

[B]

I think it's number one, too. But I do just want to take a minute to say that I really appreciated some of the. I don't know, the content of these having so much in common with what's going on in the world right now. Like the idea of Po criticizing the mechanical turk and saying that it has to be run by a human. That's like what's going on with those Tesla bots bartending and the like, you know, being remote controlled from the next room.

[A]

Tesla bartenders.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. There was a whole event where, you know, there were these Tesla robots tending bar and being waiters and it was presented as though they were fully automatic or fully automatic, you know, self sufficient, but they were in fact being remote controlled by people from a nearby room.

[D]

Bipedal robots that included them dancing on the dance floor. And it turned out that they were just sort of connected. It was like motion capture in a way.

[B]

Okay, exactly. And then there was another one, the Jules Verne one. Really reminded me of a lot of the things that are going on right now in terms of, of, I don't know, just automation of everything. And like, do you think, what was his perspective again? That it was good? Yes, that it, that like it would, it would.

[D]

That without. Without the burden of work. Without the burden of work and having superstition stripped away, it meant that we were free to pursue whatever passions we might have and not have to worry about the drudgery of day to day life or being misled by someone who, who's preying upon our baser instincts.

[B]

We talked about that recently, Ben, on Something I Want yout To Know. Because the only way that works is in this kind of utopiafied version of that scenario where everyone gets paid some sort of universal wage and is able to persist or subsist without working. And it doesn't seem that we are. Yeah, we're at a place now where it's not really designed that way because the folks that are benefiting are the ones that are rolling out all this technology without really thinking it through. Very well.

[A]

And we are. Time. We're locking it in. Okay. Three, two, one.

[D]

One.

[G]

Number one.

[D]

Sorry, gentlemen, you have picked the wrong answer. For there really was a Syrian skeptic named Lucien of Samosata who really did debunk a prophet, a so called prophet named Alexander. And in fact, the only reason we really know anything about Alexander at all is because of Lucien's smartass writings about him.

[A]

Okay, but the Poe thing is true.

[D]

The Poe thing is absolutely true.

[A]

Absolutely true. I remember that.

[D]

Although he may have also plagiarized some of his work.

[A]

I mean, no one's perfect.

[B]

Can I just say though that the Lucian thing threw me because I just assumed that everyone believed in every prophet back then. You know, like what, what was the metric with. With which you would use to, quote, unquote, debunk a prophet.

[D]

He was. He essentially was saying that. That Alexander was preying upon people's desire to believe. He was saying that he was. He was bilking people out of money in order to get. Tell them things they wanted to hear. And he was very much a skeptic about everything, not just this, this prophet. I mean, he. Like I said, he did write a. A work that was a satire about a. A dialogue of the gods of the Greek pantheon that he just used to point out the absurdities inherent in the mythology. So he was all about bringing down belief systems. Yes.

[A]

Which one was the false one?

[D]

Jules Verne. So here's the thing. Thing. Paris in the 20th Century is an actual novel. It was written in 1860. It was. Well, initially it was suppressed, and then it was not pushed toward publication until 1994. We didn't get the English edition until 96. But that story is very different from the one I described. In this vision of the future, there is a largely automated society, but everyone's working in things like factories. No one has any ambition. Art does not exist. The main character is someone who wishes to be a poet, but there is no place for poetry in this future. That everything is very utilitarian and pragmatic. There's no music, there's no poetry. And so it's a very grim view of the world. But there is quite a bit that's predicted that does in fact exist. You know, things like internal combustion engine vehicles, for example, are part of the. The landscape of this story. So the reason why it was suppressed is that his agent felt it was too much of a bummer to put it to print.

[A]

That's never stopped us. But I'll tell you what, this is the opposite of a bummer. Well played. I'm not going to stress you on a technicality, but you. You've won the day for today, which means you must return again as Jonathan Strickland or as the Quister. Personally, I like the first guy a little bit more.

[B]

I like the 50 50, though. You gotta have, you know, a little

[D]

sour, a little sweet.

[A]

You like some hide with your Jekyll?

[B]

I do.

[A]

Well, thank you so much for joining us, folks. Big, big thanks to our guest super producer, Dylan the Fagan. Big thanks, of course, to you, Jonathan. Big thanks to. Who else? Who else?

[B]

Well, geez, Ben, we've got Rachel, the Big Spin. Lance, we've got Christopher Otis and Jeffcoats here in spirit. And I do believe we have the Rude Dudes over ridiculous crime.

[A]

And thanks to you as well, Noel. You and all the ghosts.

[B]

No, me thanks. You too, Ben. We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This is Julian Edelman from Games With Names. I want to take a second to talk about something that's personal to me.

[F]

Me.

[B]

I've had the privilege of working closely with Robert Kraft for a long time, and one thing I've always respected is how seriously he takes up standing up to hate. As a Jewish athlete, my identity is something I am proud of, but I also know what it feels like to be singled out for it. That's why this new commercial for the Blue Square Alliance Against Hate that aired during the big Game really hit home. It's about showing up for someone when they're targeted, even if you don't have the perfect words. And sometimes standing next to someone is enough. And you can show support by sharing

[C]

the Blue Square hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's Stock up Savings time now through March 31st. Bring in for storewide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn uneligible items from Lays, Jack Links, Cheez It, Classico, Hidden Valley and Best Foods. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pickup or delivery restrictions apply. See website for terms and conditions.

[A]

Everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces.

[B]

Switch to T Mobile and save up

[A]

to 20% versus Verizon by getting built

[B]

in benefits they leave out.

[A]

Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now T mobile mobile is in US cellular stores.

[B]

Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits, plan features and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits Credit stop if you cancel any lines.

[F]

Qualifying credit required at cvs. It matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it.

[E]

It matters that we're here for you

[F]

when you need us, day or night. And we want everyone to feel welcomed and reward. It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill

[E]

your craving for a tasty and yeah, healthy snack.

[F]

At cvs, we're proud to serve your community because we believe where you get your medicine matters, so Visit [e-mail] or just come by our store.

[E]

We can't wait to meet you.

[F]

Store hours vary by location.

[E]

Being a small business owner isn't just a career, it's a calling. Chase for Business knows how much heart and effort go into building something of your own. Manage all your business finances, from banking to payments to credit cards, all in one place with our digital tools, plus access online resources designed to help your business thrive. Learn [e-mail] business chase for business Make More of what's yours the Chase Mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply JP Morgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC Copyright 2026 JP Morgan Chase and Company Name

[F]

this is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.