Unlucky Numbers Across The Globe -- And Why They Are Ridiculous

Summary

Ridiculous History: “Unlucky Numbers Across the Globe—And Why They Are Ridiculous”

Hosts: Ben Bowlin & Noel Brown
Super Producer: Max Williams
Released: September 2, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Ben and Noel dive into the quirky and sometimes surprisingly impactful world of unlucky numbers, exploring both personal superstitions and broader cultural taboos. Through their signature blend of historical deep-dives and playful banter, they investigate why certain numbers—namely 13 and 4—elicit fear, avoidance, and even tangible changes in architecture, manufacturing, and daily life across the globe. Along the way, they pepper the episode with fun facts, pop culture references, and personal anecdotes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Personal Lucky and Unlucky Numbers

• The episode opens with Max’s favorite number (41), Noel’s weird fixation on 845, and a brief acknowledgment that even the hosts have secret number superstitions.
  • “It's just my mind glommed onto that [number] for some reason and there's nothing wrong with that.” — Noel (01:45)
• The hosts consider how these personal preferences can be whimsical (icebreakers) or deadly serious, depending on cultural context and individual beliefs.

The Universality and History of Numerals

• Most of humanity now uses the same number system (Arabic numerals), regardless of language:
  • “Wherever you go nowadays, with a few exceptions… people… are going to use the same number system.” — Ben (09:13)
• The “Arabic” numeral system originated in India, was spread by Persian/Arab scholars (notably Al-Khwarizmi), and overtook less efficient systems like Roman numerals thanks to ease of use and applicability to trade/commerce.
  • “What you're using today, folks, is called the Arabic numeral system, and it's a misnomer because it's from an ancient Indian numerical system and it spread via trade.” — Ben (10:13)

Numbers Beyond Math: Symbols and Superstitions

• Humans universally recognize quantifiable things, but “assigning good or bad fortune to numbers” is a “time-honored human hobby.” (07:05)
• The hosts reference numerology (like Kabbalah and the film Pi) where numbers are thought to have mystical meanings or uncover spiritual secrets.
  • “We're connection making machines.” — Noel (22:33)

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Unlucky Number #1: 13 in the West

Cultural Permeation and Origins

• 13 is the most infamously unlucky number in Western culture; its fear, “triskaidekaphobia,” is so widespread it even has a clinical name.
  • “There's even a specific word for this phobia. Can you give us a reading of this phobia?”
    “Triska da kaphobia.” — Ben (21:43)
• 10% of Americans reportedly fear the number 13 (21:41).

Pop Culture References & Real-life Impact

• Friday the 13th (both the date and horror film franchise) looms large as a touchstone for bad luck.
  • “There's even a whole horror movie franchise literally called Friday the 13th.” — Ben (24:28)
• Buildings often skip the 13th floor; elevators, hospitals, airports, and hotels may label floors 12, 14, 15, etc., avoiding the “ominous” 13.
  • “It is even now in 2025, not uncommon to find an elevator with no 13 floor button on it.” — Ben (30:43)

Why Did 13 Become "Bad"?

• Popular theories:

  • Hammurabi’s Code: Allegedly omitted the 13th law, but actually a myth/translation error.
    • “But it turns out the reality… is kind of ridiculous and classic Human. It was probably a typo based on the earliest translations. They accidentally skipped a line of text.” — Ben (27:16)
  • Religious Roots: Judas Iscariot as the 13th guest at the Last Supper, betrayer of Jesus.
  • Nordic Myth: Loki as the unwelcome 13th guest at a mythic Norse feast.

• The number 13's infamy is a Western phenomenon; other cultures may even see it as lucky.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Are you going to stay on that [13th] floor of the hotel? Da da da da da. It's so weird.” — Ben (31:50)
• “Even if you don’t actively practice superstition, we all have a thing where we kind of err on the side of caution … I will stay on floor 15 just to be safe.” — Ben (31:58)

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Unlucky Number #2: 4 in Eastern Cultures

Cross-National Paranoia

• In China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and across much of East Asia, the number four is deeply unlucky, a phenomenon known as “tetraphobia.”
  • “Tetraphobia. And that is unfortunately not related to tetris phobia, which would have been funnier.” — Ben (38:41)
• Elevators and floor numbers will skip 4 as in the West with 13; license plates and product numbering avoid it.

Why Does 4 = Bad Luck?

• Linguistic Origin: The word for “four” sounds almost exactly like the word for “death” in Mandarin (as well as in Japanese and Korean).
  • “In Japanese, for or she and death, she share the same pronunciation. … In Korean, however, both are pronounced sa.” — Noel (45:29)
• In Japan, 49 is even worse (sounds like “pain until death”).

Real-World Impact

• Asian carmakers and Western brands will alter product names/model numbers to avoid 4 (e.g., Alfa Romeo 144 was renamed for these markets).
• Ben and Noel discuss how international companies will go to great lengths to avoid this number, much as in the West with 13.

Notable Cultural Moment: The “Lion-Eating Poet” Poem

• Ben and Noel play an audio clip/poem showcasing the tonal complexity of Mandarin, where every word is pronounced “shi” but carries radically different meanings based on tone (44:03–45:06).
  • “You see what I'm saying makes your head spin in the best way… It's about the tonality…” — Noel (44:44–45:04)

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Reflection & Broader Takeaways

Cultural Subjectivity of Number Superstitions

• The two unlucky numbers discussed (13 in the West, 4 in East Asia) both exist due to a mix of linguistic coincidence, historical myth-making, and cultural transmission—a “game of telephone.”
  • “The fear of this number is not a cross cultural phenomenon. It is culturally dependent. … If you are not from western society … you will probably think it’s somewhere between cute and weird that people care so much about what floor of the hotel they’re sleeping on.” — Ben (31:58)
• Much of our relationship to numbers isn’t rational, and the social legacy of these superstitions leads to real-world consequences (missing floors, product recalls, altered naming conventions).

Pop Culture and Number Superstition

• Music references: Pixies’ “Number 13 Baby” and the psych-rock band The 13th Floor Elevators (21:03, 33:28)
• Meme culture: Current numerical slang like “67” (meaning to reject someone/off something), “86” (out of something in restaurant slang), etc.

The Hosts’ Humor & Insights

• Regular asides and playful tangents deepen the discussion, such as Sprint’s references, a running bit about Max’s “dubious facts” (30:14), and debate about Friday the 13th movie timelines (25:01).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Now who are we to 86 superstition?” — Ben (46:38)
• “Maybe you get a deal on 13.” — Noel (48:14)
• “We are down to sleep on floor 13 as well as floor 4. Maybe we do an episode on lucky numbers in the future. What do you think?” — Ben (48:19)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:45] — Noel shares his pseudo-mystical number fixation (845)
• [09:13] — The universality of Arabic numerals
• [12:34] — Max gives Roman numeral fun (Super Bowl LIX)
• [16:22] — Numbers as symbols: “some numbers good, others bad”
• [21:43] — “Triskaidekaphobia” and fear of 13
• [24:28] — Friday the 13th and its horror franchise legacy
• [27:16] — The myth of the Code of Hammurabi omitting law 13
• [30:43] — Elevators skipping the 13th floor
• [34:34] — Enter “tetraphobia,” the fear of 4 in East Asia
• [39:20] — Decorations/products omitting “4” in China, Japan, Korea
• [44:03] — The Lion Eating Poet poem & Mandarin tonality
• [45:29] — Death/four language connection in Japanese and Korean
• [48:19] — “Maybe you get a deal on 13”—bargain hunting and superstition
• [48:39] — Discussion of lucky numbers and future episode teasers

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Conclusion

The episode is a wry, wide-ranging exploration of why we assign luck to numbers, how these beliefs percolate through societies, and the ways they create genuinely odd consequences worldwide. With references spanning historical law codes, religious myth, modern pop culture, and global consumer behavior, Ben and Noel demonstrate that some aspects of “ridiculous” history are alive and well in the present day—and may be as much about connection-making as about real risk.

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For more Ridiculous History, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Transcript

[Ben Bullen]

Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you as always, so much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our own lucky number, our super producer, Mr. Max Williams.

[Noel]

Max, Lucky number Slevin Williams.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, yeah. You're no Brown. I am Ben Bullen in these parts. Yeah. And our pal Max is very big into fantasy football. So much so that Max, you told Noel and yours truly that your group chat text messages would be blowing up.

[Max Williams]

Yeah, I mean, yeah. No, I always tell people, I'm like, hey, if you have something important to send me during the football season, do not text it to me. Which is the inverse what most people say, but it's like. Because if you send it to me in text, it just gets into the giant pile of fantasy football stuff. By the way, my favorite number, 41.

[Ben Bullen]

And that's where we're going with this. This is an episode all about numbers. So, Noel, Max has a favorite lucky number, 41, or just a favorite number for his own personal mythology. Do you find yourself possessing a personal favorite, lucky or unlucky number?

[Noel]

Yeah, I do. And it's nonsense. I don't remember when I was a young lad writing bad poetry that was very esoteric and pretentious. I don't know. I got focused on this number 845 because I would do these sort of cut up experiments where I would just take words from random pages that I would find friends houses and I think there was like a crossword or something where someone had written the number in the margins and of course, you know, with, what's the word? Bader Meinhof situation. I just see the number everywhere and it's, it's in all my passwords. I'm kidding. It's not. It's in a handful of my usernames though. But yeah, it's irrelevant. It's just my mind glommed onto that.

[Ben Bullen]

Number for some reason and there's nothing wrong with that. Now, of course, fellow ridiculous historians, I am not going to reveal my own personal, personal mythology of lucky or unlucky numbers. But for a lot of folks, just like you were saying, no, this can be a whimsical icebreaker type of question. But for other people, as we're going to find, this is very serious. Deadly serious. Habitual lottery players often have lucky numbers, as do other gamblers, even professional athletes. Right? How you choose your jersey number, business tycoons, how you close the deal. This concept goes across every imaginable demographic. Interesting fun fact. Speaking to personal preference Stephen King, the lionized author of American literature. He is obsessed with the number 19 and he will talk about it at length.

[Noel]

What's the hotel room? From the Shining.

[Ben Bullen]

Oh, oh, from the Shining, not from the other story.

[Noel]

Yeah, well, I think in the book it's 317. And then in the Kubrick film he changes the number, but then no, maybe it's 217. Anyway, it's something like that. It's different in the book and the number. But then in the new Zach Kreger horror film, that's quite good weapons, he uses that number that he claims in interviews. He just must have internalized it. It wasn't meant to be a nod. But again, it's funny how we glom on to these kind of number.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, exactly. You know, some special numbers are again, a matter of personal preference. Others can be cultural events, you know, like part of Asia's deep belief in the good vibes of the number eight. And we see this similar pattern with unlucky numbers. This is an iHeart podcast. Ridiculous history is brought to you by Grainger.

[Noel]

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[Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman]

I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the Psychology Podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about how to be a better you. When you think about emotion regulation, you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome. Avoidance is easier. Ignoring is easier. Denial is EAS complex. Problem solving takes effort. Listen to the Psychology podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jacob Schick]

It's important that we just reassure people that they're not alone and there is help out there.

[Good Stuff Podcast Hosts]

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[Ben Bullen]

One Tribe saved my life twice.

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[Good Stuff Podcast Hosts]

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[Ben Bullen]

Assigning good or bad Fortune to Numbers It's a time honored human hobby, and it can seem like a relic of superstition from ages gone, but there's still a lot of legacy to there's this quasi spiritual belief that some numbers are better or worse than others for sure.

[Noel]

I mean, I know we're going to get into a lot of this, but I'm always reminded of the very cool early Darren Aronofsky movie PI that talks about this kind of cabal of Hasidic Jewish mystics that practice the numerology of Kabbalah wherein certain numbers are assigned to certain letters in the Hebrew Alphabet that used to kind of uncover these hidden secrets and connections with the universe. And in the film it takes a real dark turn, but it's real cool.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, especially with the high dollar corporate interests that play another antagonistic role in that amazing film. We are fun at parties. Let's start exploring lucky and unlucky numbers by doing what we'll call a hilariously brief history of numbers. 1, 2, 3 to the 4. How do we get there? How did we like, how do we do numbers?

[Noel]

Well, you'll have to excuse me because Snoop doggy dog and Dr. Dre are at the door. I'll be right back. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, I don't know, man, it's interesting. I thought when you said you were going to do a history of numbers, I thought you were just going to name all the numbers. And that would have made for very interesting content. And I was here for it. And thanks, Ben, for this excellent research brief. I know this is a subject for you, then I think all of the ridiculous historians out there are going to enjoy it too. So let's talk a little bit about numbers. So despite the fact that humans are pretty bad at agreeing with one another on most things, most of modern civilization has agreed on not only the concept of numbers, but also a universal ish way of communicating them in written form, right?

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah. Like wherever you go nowadays, with a few exceptions, the people you run into, even if you don't speak the same language, they are going to use the same number system. 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0. Again, repeated to infinity. Noel, that's kind of a success story, is it not?

[Noel]

I think it is. I mean, we certainly can't agree on an Alphabet. We certainly can't agree on a language. And I've always wondered that, you know, why is it that numbers are so universal? I guess because there exist in the natural world observable, kind of quantifiable things that these numbers represent. So it sort of makes sense that, you know, we would need to kind of have a standard for this. Right. Have you ever maybe you could say it or how you see it, Ben, what do you think that reason is for the universality of a number system?

[Ben Bullen]

It's crazy, man. I think you're on the money with the idea of universal observance, right? People have different words for the concept of gravity, but everyone acknowledges gravity exists. There's no uncontacted community you could go to that doesn't understand things fall down when you throw them into the sky. But the weird thing is, back in the day when all these disparate human communities, language groups like you described, empires, civilizations, they had their own written version of numbers. What you're using today, folks, is called the Arabic numeral system, and it's a misnomer because it's from an ancient Indian numerical system and it spread via trade. It was the easiest way to. To talk math, to talk finance, to talk money. And then the Arabic boffins adapted this and it propagated throughout the Islamic world for sure.

[Noel]

And we can't not mention the Persian mathematician Al Qaradzemi. He is, to your point, Ben, one of the aforementioned boffins, nerds who helped popularize this number writing system way back in the 9th century. So if we fast forward in time 100 years or so, we've got Europeans encountering The Arabic numeral system again because of this trade that's around the 10th century. Up until that time, however, they'd all been using really, really bonkers, inefficient, yet well intentioned system of Roman numerals, which, as you know, Ben, it still mystifies me to this day. And it is still used obviously in the naming of kings and things like that. But also you'll see Roman numerals as a tradition at the bottom of motion pictures the credits, you'll see like a really long Roman numeral that represents a year. And when you see that written out, you kind of understand why it's not the best system. Because real hard to parse out what exactly it's saying. I can't hardly do it with just like four characters.

[Ben Bullen]

It's a.

[Noel]

Let alone like 20.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, yeah. By the way, let's throw to Max real quick here. Hey Max, what Super bowl is it?

[Noel]

There you go, another one that uses the Romans. Yeah.

[Max Williams]

It is a number between one and 60.

[Ben Bullen]

Okay, great.

[Noel]

But how would you, how would you parse, how would you spell it out? With Roman numerals?

[Max Williams]

It might be. Well, it's not V, it's L. L, L was a couple of years ago, which is 50. So it's like.

[Noel]

L I X. Super bowl licks. Sounds dirty. No, sorry. Yeah, yeah, February, the most recent one, February of 25 was.

[Max Williams]

We're going to be at LX then next because that's 60 then, right? L I X is 59. So we're 10 years away from having a really good Super Bowl.

[Ben Bullen]

So Roman numerals, right. And thank you. That's a Max with the facts. If we can add a null tag on it.

[Noel]

Who's that sneaking in the phone?

[Ben Bullen]

It's Max and he's full of knowledge.

[Noel]

Just for you right now. Here he comes.

[Max Williams]

And also no for sure.

[Noel]

But like for example, if you, let's see, if you, if you combine different Roman numerals with standard Roman numerals, you can form these longer numbers. And like, here's an example of an obnoxious one like MDCCCC LXXXXVIII, which apparently means 999,000.

[Ben Bullen]

Now what if you could just write that an easier way. Fast forward another several centuries. A guy named Fibonacci who is low key, famous for a couple other things, including a few sequences. One in particular, he publishes something called Liber abakshi in the 1200s. And just like Al Khwarzemi before him, this popularizes the Arabic numeral system in the nascent Western world. Fast forward one more time. It's a modern day, it's a 21st century. Everybody except for the super bowl and studio moguls are using the Arabic numeral system. Linguistic systems. Languages across the world are still, as you said, Noel, quite divided. One versus un versus Zhai ainz, you know, et cetera. They all will generally and consistently use this single brilliant system of numeric notation to agree on basic math for sure.

[Noel]

And that's not even to mention like the idea of binary code and the ones and zeros that make up digital delivery of information. That's a whole other concept and I'd love to get more into that. I think we've done some stuff around. We definitely did one about like the Turing, you know, code breaking machines and all of that. But it would be fun to talk a little bit about the history of coding because it is becoming, gosh, the thing that they told you to go to school for and that is now seemingly being made part of history and being replaced by AI. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think that's maybe worth an episode. So math alone can't define, however, that human experience. To our previous point though, these observable phenomena that can ultimately be drilled down into mathematically, even math cannot fully explain everything, right? So as a result, depending on where you go and how you experience the world, some numbers are defined in terms beyond their actual facts, to quote Lauren quantitative value. So some numbers good, other numbers bad.

[Ben Bullen]

And that's why today, fellow ridiculous historians, we want to explore some of those numbers called unlucky. We're going to take two examples. Just to be clear, your mileage may vary. We're going to learn some origin stories, some fun superstitions and legacy of culture. And then we're also going to go into some downright ridiculous examples of real life dangerous consequences based on those beliefs. For now, we're not going to focus on 13 examples. We'll focus on two examples. But we will start with the number 13 because come on folks, we're a US based Western podcast and the most unpopular number in all of western discourse is the number 13.

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[Jacob Schick]

I had this like overwhelming sensation that I had to call her right then and I just hit call, said, you know, hey, I'm Jacob Schick, I'm the CEO of One Tribe foundation and I just wanted to call and let her know there's a lot of people battling some of the very same things you're battling and there is help out there.

[Good Stuff Podcast Hosts]

The Good Stuff podcast sees season two takes a deep look into One Tribe Foundation, a non profit fighting suicide in the veteran community. September is National Suicide Prevention Month, so join hosts Jacob and Ashley Schick as they bring you to the front lines of One Tribe's mission.

[Ben Bullen]

I was married to a combat army veteran and he actually took his own life to suicide. One Tribe saved my life twice.

[Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman]

There's a lot of love that flows.

[Ben Bullen]

Through this place and it's sincere now. It's a personal mission. Don't want to have to go to any more funerals.

[Jacob Schick]

You know, I got blown up on a react mission. I ended up having amputation below the knee of my right leg and a traumatic brain injury because I landed on my head.

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[Good Stuff Podcast Hosts]

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[Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman]

I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the Psychology podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about exploring human potential. I was going to schools to try to teach kids these skills and I get eye rolling from teachers or I get students who would be like, it's easier to punch someone in the face when you think emotion regulation. Like you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome as a result of it, if it's going to be beneficial to you because it's easy to say like, like you go blank yourself right it's easy. It's easy to just drink the extra beer. It's easy to ignore, to suppress. Seeing a colleague who's bothering you and just like, walk the other way. Avoidance is easier. Ignoring is easier. Denials easier. Drinking is easier. Yelling, screaming is easy. Complex problem solving, meditating, you know, takes effort. Listen to the psychology podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Bullen]

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[Noel]

Yeah, it always reminds me of the excellent pixies Song number 13, baby. Let's see. Standing in her chinos, shirt pulled off clean, got it. Tattooed breast, say number 13. All right, he doesn't use that word. He uses a different word. But it is a song about. I don't know, who knows what the Pixie songs are about, but it definitely has a certain doom saying quality to it, which is where we're going with this. The number 13 does not bode well when it pops up. Theoretically. Earlier research indicates that up to 10% of the US has a fear of that very number, even in the modern day. And that cultural fear is so deeply built into society. There's even a specific word for this phobia. Ben, you found this one. I'm having a hard time even wrapping my eyeballs around it. Can you give us a reading of this phobia?

[Ben Bullen]

Triska da kaphobia.

[Noel]

Wow. Fear of the number 13. Wait a minute. Wasn't there a movie with Jim Carrey about the number 13? Or was it. Oh, wait, Jim Carrey.

[Ben Bullen]

And it's not the hotel one.

[Noel]

No, it's the Jim Carrey Scary Number Movie. Number movie. It is called the number 23, not the number. They did a little spin on it. Interesting. Apparently he sees it everywhere and it causes him to have some psychological break. And there's apparently a twist ending. And it is based on something called the 23 enigma, which is a real world concept where people perceive connections to the number 23 in real life.

[Ben Bullen]

But that also happens, happens pretty often to individual humans. The idea of seeing connections.

[Noel]

No question. We're connection making machines.

[Ben Bullen]

We like to see a Pattern, don't we, Max? You wanted to jump in here? You got a 13 thing?

[Max Williams]

No, I just want to piggyback on something Noel said about the Pixies recently. When I was coming back from Portland, I was on vacation out there. Some Pixies came on. I was listening to it and it's good when I hear the Pixies. But I was like, like, man, when I started listening to the Pixies in high school, I remember being like, man, I can't wait till I'm an adult. And I understand what these lyrics mean. They mean nothing. They mean nothing. No pixie lyric makes anything.

[Noel]

It's a vibe based lyric. Yeah, Frank Black's a vibe based lyric. Right.

[Ben Bullen]

Of the Stone Temple Pilots, for sure.

[Noel]

Or even like Radiohead. And that's one thing I really dig about certain lyrics that are less to be interpreted or have an exact outright meaning, but it's more what you bring to it, which is exactly what we do as pattern seeking humans with numbers.

[Ben Bullen]

Humans are the first thing to look at the heavens and the mechanisms of reality and say, how does this apply to me? How can I make this about?

[Noel]

When you put it like that, we kind of sound like a holes, but I guess. Fair point. Fair point.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah. Accurate too.

[Noel]

100%.

[Ben Bullen]

No kidding. Friends and neighbors, people now in 2025 in the Western world will genuinely avoid occasions of auspice. We could call them avoiding marriages, reunions, significant business handshakes, travel on days. This, I'll say it beat me, Max. Bullshit calendar calls the 13th, especially Friday the 13th, buddy.

[Noel]

I'm such a ding dong. I did not even think about Friday the 13th in this very clear discussion of unlucky numbers. And the number 13, of course, that's. It's not like it's the halloweeniest non Halloween day of the year.

[Ben Bullen]

You're okay, buckaroo. It happens all the time. There's even a whole horror movie franchise literally called Friday the 13th.

[Noel]

Well, yeah, that's certainly the most popular pop cultural use of that. And I don't know. I don't know. Do you know people that freak out about Friday the 13th or talk about it in hushed tones? Not the series of films, but the day.

[Ben Bullen]

I know a few. I know a few. Most people I know who talk about the franchise talk about it in a very excited way because they're horror film fanatics and they love Jason Voorhees.

[Noel]

Jason's great.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, that's what the campers say.

[Noel]

Yeah, they love it when he. My favorite Jason kill in an early movie. It Might be the first one is when he just takes a camper who's in a sleeping bag and like, cinches it up at the top and just slams them into a tree repeatedly. I thought that was very clever. But if I'm not mistaken, Friday the 13th maybe correct us out there, horror boffins, but does it actually. Is that a meaningful event in the film or is it just kind of referring to just the concept of unluckiness and a bad day? I can't recall. I actually can't recall.

[Ben Bullen]

I think regardless of how the franchise begins, they lose touch over the course of the franchise. With Friday the 13th, it says here.

[Noel]

On the Internet that the date does not consistently, to your point, Ben, feature in the series the first film, and only a few subsequent films actually take place on that specific date. So the movie series has a confusing timeline and doesn't always adhere to the date mentioned in the title. Fair enough.

[Ben Bullen]

Speaking of confusing, shout out to Crystal Lake. Why all the hubbub bubs over Friday the 13th or 13 in general? Let's travel all the way back to the first pitch of why this number became bad. It goes to the Code of Hammurabi. And the idea is, and the speculation goes, that Hammurabi's code, the first documented measure of law that humans know now, it has a list of things that are going to be crimes and legally punishable, and it purposely omits a third 13th law from its legal rules. So this might sound like some ancient precedent and super easy to walk around and say, oh, these folks of old were also really scared of the number 13. But it turns out the reality of this is kind of ridiculous and classic Human. It was probably a typo based on the earliest translations. They accidentally skipped a line of text.

[Noel]

I love, like, when doomsday prophecies are based on, like, typos or just that historical game of telephone that we always talk about. It just. It brightens my day.

[Ben Bullen]

Shout out 2012.

[Noel]

Yeah, 100%. And I'm certain that this is something that you found as well, but I'd love to explore it more. The idea of I don't see this always. Do you see buildings not having a 13th floor all the time anymore?

[Ben Bullen]

Ooh, I'm excited that we're going to get to that. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Because it still continues. The thing about the surviving Code of Hammurabi, to make it even more ridiculous, is that that translation is not numbered. There's a list of crimes and, you know, legal rulings, but they are. They're like the things in an email with a dot instead of a one and a two. So there's no number 13 to miss. It means that none of these folks were frightened by some mystical mathematical power. Instead they were in a hurry. Stuff fell through the cracks. And maybe another theory is that because of the base 10 Arabic numeral system. Maybe it's because of that early Mesopotamian societies were super dupes into what we would call base 12 math. That's part of why we measure days in 24 hour cycles. Right? 12 times 2. Or why the modern international calendar, which is again malarkey, has 12 months. The idea there is that 13 is just too spoopy. It's ominous, it's unnatural.

[Noel]

Now that if I'm not mistaken, when we did the calendar stuff, it was definitely not for that reason, right? It was more of like they needed the math to add up, so 12 made the most sense. You're right again. I've never claimed to fully wrap my head around any of that either. I am not good at math. That's okay.

[Ben Bullen]

We mutually are both buffoonishly confused when Thanksgiving or Easter occur in the West. I think both of us just assume someone will tell us these rotating holidays. And that is unfortunately true. Ridiculous historians. Then we have the other stories about 13. They're very spiritually based. Judas Iscariot, famous in certain religious Circles. He's the 13th guest at the Last Supper. He betrayed the guy who repeatedly helped him out and saved his life. Jesus Christ. Jesus H. Christ, if you like. And there's.

[Noel]

What does H mean? Is Harold. Where does that even come from?

[Ben Bullen]

Herod.

[Noel]

Sorry.

[Ben Bullen]

Really? No.

[Noel]

Okay. I didn't think so. Anyway, maybe that's something worth exploring. Too absurd actually.

[Max Williams]

His father's name was Hank and he got named after.

[Noel]

Know about that? Max, with the. With the dubious facts.

[Ben Bullen]

And there's an earlier example of this Loki from Nordic lore, who was again the 13th guide. An important party and kind of a pill in those stories. This carries on in multiple forms today. This is where we're getting to what you alluded to so beautifully earlier, Noel. It is Even now in 2025, not uncommon to find an elevator with no 13 floor button on it. Especially in airports, hospitals, institutions of higher learning, which is funny to me. It just skips straight from 12 to 14. Have you run into any of this?

[Noel]

You guys, I do always try to look for it and what I was mentioning earlier, the reason I brought it up, I like. I don't see it as much anymore in terms of there not being a 13, but. But I don't know, I can't really say for certain. I definitely have witnessed such things, but in my mind I always seem to try to look for it and be like, wait, wait, no, there's a 13. Why is there a 13?

[Ben Bullen]

So, yeah, it puts you off. Like, are you going to stay on that floor of the hotel? Da da da da da. It's so weird.

[Noel]

Exactly.

[Ben Bullen]

It's so weird, right? Because even if, if like most people in a secular world, even if you don't actively practice superstition, we all have a thing where we kind of err on the side of caution, right? If it is convenient for me to not put myself in a situation that superstition tells me is disadvantageous, then I'll avoid that situation. I will stay on floor 15 just to be safe. This is the wildest part of the unlucky number. Reckoning 13 as a bad number is primarily, overwhelmingly a western phobia. If you went back to ancient Egypt, certain dynasties saw the number 13 as kind of lucky. So the fear of this number is not a cross cultural phenomenon. It is culturally dependent. No one is absolutely sure how it came about, but everybody heard it to your point about the game of telephone and repeated it to each other. So if you are not from western society and you're looking in on, you know, the benighted Europeans, Americans, Canadians, a little bit of Mexico as well, then you will probably think it's somewhere between cute and weird that people care so much about what, what floor of the hotel they're sleeping on. Yeah.

[Noel]

And if we're doing another musical, ref, if you don't mind, there is a really cool, influential psych rock band from Austin, Texas called the 13th floor elevators with Rocky Erickson, a famous oddball front person who I believe passed away and he had some mental health issues, but a very, very talented dude. Highly recommend checking out their work, but it's not a clever name. There's just this. The 13th floor elevators. The elevators that only go to the scary floor.

[Ben Bullen]

Love it, love it. And that's an excellent example. We can also say, for example, 13 is kind of malarkey, as in there is no real world consequence for ending up with 13 on your license plate or 13 guests at your dinner party. Speaking of, for example, let's get to one of the most infamous unlucky numbers half a world away. Way more people are frightened of the number four.

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[Jacob Schick]

I had this like overwhelming sensation that I had to call her right then and I just hit call. Said, you know, hey, I'm Jacob Schick, I'm the CEO of One Child Tribe foundation and I just wanted to call and let her know there's a lot of people battling some of the very same things you're battling and there is help out there.

[Good Stuff Podcast Hosts]

The Good Stuff Podcast Season two takes a deep look into One Tribe Foundation, a non profit fighting suicide in the veteran community. September is National Suicide Prevention Month, so join hosts Jacob and Ashley Schick as they bring you to the front lines of One Tribe's mission.

[Ben Bullen]

I was married to a combat army veteran and and he actually took his own life to suicide. One Tribe saved my life twice.

[Noel]

There's a lot of love that flows.

[Ben Bullen]

Through this place and it's sincere now. It's a personal mission. Don't want to have to go to any more funerals.

[Jacob Schick]

You know, I got blown up on a react mission. I ended up having amputation below the knee of my right leg and a traumatic brain injury because I landed on my head.

[Washable Sofas Advertiser]

Welcome to season two of the Good Stuff.

[Good Stuff Podcast Hosts]

Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast podcast.

[Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman]

I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the Psychology Podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about exploring human potential. I was going to schools to try to teach kids these skills and I get eye rolling from teachers or I get students who would be like it's easier to punch someone in the face when you think about emotion regulation like you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use, unless you think there's a good option outcome as a result of it. If it's going to be beneficial to you. Because it's easy to say like. Like you go blank yourself, right? It's easy. It's easy to just drink the extra beer. It's easy to ignore, to suppress seeing a colleague who's bothering you and just like, walk the other way. Avoidance is easier. Ignoring is easier. Denial is easier. Drinking is easier. Yelling, screaming is easy. Complex problem solving, meditating. You know, taking takes effort. Listen to the psychology podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Bullen]

Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor.

[Enya Umanzor and Drew Phillips]

And I'm Drew Phillips and we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you, but if you have unmedicated adhd. Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness psychobabble.

[Ben Bullen]

Yes, yes.

[Enya Umanzor and Drew Phillips]

Then Emergency Intercom's the podcast for you. Open your free iHeartradio app, search emergency Intercom and listen now.

[Noel]

Yeah, I had no idea about this one, Ben. This is fascinating. It is considered super unlucky throughout large parts of Asia. Very similar, if not more. More so in terms of the paranoia surrounding it to the way the west looks at number 13. So even today you will find elevators that won't list the fourth floor going from three directly to five or having like a subheading on three. So like the floor between three and.

[Ben Bullen]

Five would be 3AMm, I can't wait.

[Noel]

Three and a half. Reminds me of the tiny floor from Being John Malkovich.

[Ben Bullen]

Oh, perfect reference. Yeah, I can't wait till we make it over to that part of the world together for ridiculous history live. You're absolutely correct, Noel. Throughout China, Taiwan, the Korean peninsula and Japan, the number four is treated with even more suspicion than we in the west treat the number 13 again. It's so common that there is an entire word for the fear of the number four in English. It's pretty predictable. It's tetraphobia. And that is unfortunately not related to tetris phobia, which would have been funnier.

[Noel]

So cool that these very niche. Maybe it's not niche if, like enough people believe it. Fears have their own phobias, just like in the West. Elevators and hospitals and airports and apartment buildings, office buildings are going to skip the fourth floor. In Beijing, for example, license plates avoid using that number though. I do wonder like how is this implemented systematically? Like a lot of those numbers are sort of randomly generated or they're generated based on pre existing sequences. Like what if your number comes up as they say, you know, is someone going to like complain? Are they going to say I don't want that one?

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, what are you doing? License plate issuing authority. Are you telling me to die?

[Noel]

Exactly.

[Ben Bullen]

Are you final destinationing me? I'm going to make it a verb anyway. Over in Singapore, dude, the legendary Alpha Romeo had the model 144 and they had to change the name to sell it to these high rolling, very fancy tycoons.

[Noel]

It's very interesting. It reminds me of the way American movies often have to be re edited for Asian markets to remove mentions of overtly supernatural stuff. And maybe I'm oversimplifying that, but I do recall that a Ghostbusters movie was very, very heavily edited and that mentions of ghost, ghosts in general and spiritual entities are kind of frowned upon over there because of very similar cultural sensitivities.

[Ben Bullen]

100%. Yeah. And do check out our earlier gosh, what was it? Stuff they don't want you to know episodes about American studios sort of tailoring their products to Chinese markets who are, by the way folks, the biggest theatrical market out there.

[Noel]

Yeah. Oftentimes movies will make their budget or become profitable even if they're a flop here at home because they do well abroad.

[Ben Bullen]

Shout out to Pacific Rim.

[Noel]

Pacific Rim. I think it's a great movie. I didn't see any of the sequels. And I did also want to point out a recent ish episode we did on ridiculous history about some international, let's say events negative that were caused by misprints in products and various American kind of things that created quite a kerfuffle abroad because of, you know, mistranslations. It's not exactly the same, but I think it's a good spiritual kind of partner to this episode.

[Ben Bullen]

Right on. You know, it may astound a lot of us listening to realize that multiple international brands will purposely and preemptively retouch their products entirely to avoid using the the number four in Asian markets. So we have to ask why is this tetraphobia so much stronger than Triskadaikaphobia, which I am stumbling through. The fear of the number 13. The true answer here folks, which we can give you the straight poop, is this. The number four as a fearful number is rooted in language. It goes way, way back. It's often misreported. Like think about it this way the number 13, 13 in English is a relatively singular word. You can slant rhyme it with phrases like the third teen or thirst teen, but the actual word 13 is just what it means. It means three more units past 10. That's not the case here. In multiple languages across East Asia, the word for four sounds distressingly similar to the word for death. Thank you for the sound cue there, Max. Oh, yes.

[Noel]

Oh, no. Death's sweet embrace.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah. Picture being a kid over in the mainland Middle Kingdom and you're learning to count. You got er, son Death.

[Noel]

Oh, no. It's so metal.

[Ben Bullen]

It's true.

[Noel]

Well, that doesn't sound quite as scary.

[Ben Bullen]

But, well, without going into the weeds, Chinese, as we know, is a tonal language or it's a collection of tonal languages. Mandarin has four tones. Cantonese has too many for us to learn. And it means that the pronounced tone of a vocalization indicates the concept, the content you are communicating. If we could, this might just be fun for us. Can we play a weird poem that shows us how bizarre this tonal language can become?

[Noel]

Only if we can all listen to it together. Ben, that sounds lovely.

[Ben Bullen]

So in English, this is the lion eating poet in the stone den. Or you could say the story of Mr. Eating Lions. Every word in here is a different total pronunciation of sh. The title, the content.

[Noel]

You see what I'm saying makes your head spin in the best way I hear it. But boy, oh boy, it's about the inflection, right? It's about the tonality of the upward or downward. And then sometimes the length of the sound. It seems like some are shorter, some are a little longer, some have. That's interesting.

[Ben Bullen]

Four tones. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Noel]

No, I love it. That's really cool, Ben.

[Ben Bullen]

Well, we're not the ones who came up with it, Noel, but it gives us a sense as non native speakers about the concept. And then we say, what about the languages in nearby regions that do not rely on tones? In Japan and Korea, the words for, for and for death are likewise similar.

[Noel]

Correct. In Japanese, for or she and death, she share the same pronunciation. Okay, that makes sense. In Korean, however, both are pronounced sa. So people in Japan particularly do not like the number 49. Double Whammy, as it sounds sort of like saying pain until death.

[Ben Bullen]

Happy birthday, everybody.

[Noel]

It exactly. Not cool, man. The kids are really into some numerology stuff these days. There's a new brain rot kind of term that's like 67. I want to say 687. Hold on, let's see. Slang 67 means to abruptly Reject, dismiss, or leave someone or something often used to tell somebody to go away. So it seems like it's part of a meme and kids are saying that now. But then I remember 86, which meant in restaurant parlance that something was out, that you were out of something. So I don't know. I'm very curious about where some of these numbers come from. Maybe it's like from like walkie talkie code or something like that. But I digress.

[Ben Bullen]

Now, who are we to 86 superstition? It does make me wonder about the old stories of unfortunately named automobiles in different linguistic markets. It also makes me wonder. Wonder about how films like the Fantastic Four are going to play in Asia again with China being the largest theatrical market.

[Noel]

Well, oftentimes though, like those types of movies, numbers aside, get a much more culturally under recognizable name. It'll be like the Magic Family. The Magic Family, yes. Thank you, Ben. Thank you 100%. The stretchy boy and the fire.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, yeah, perfect. I mean, and joking aside, there's a great deal of xenophobia on either shore the proverbial pond here. So we have to keep in mind that the vast majority of modern humans are not actively terrified of numbers that just exist without opinions or powers of their own. A ton of Eastern and Western literature over the centuries has practiced other gathering, and it's portraying people that the authors have never met as slaves to some sort of superstition. But look, also, if all things are equal, right. If you are in the west and you have the opportunity to choose between floor 12 and floor 15, you might not go for 13 if you don't have to pay.

[Noel]

Yeah, that's true. And then maybe. Maybe. Well, maybe you get a deal on 13.

[Ben Bullen]

You get a deal on 13. We're revealing a lot about ourselves in that case. Yeah, we are down to sleep on floor 13 as well as floor 4. Maybe we do an episode on lucky numbers in the future. What do you think?

[Noel]

What a great idea. Yeah. The Yin and the yang.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah, I know 8 is seen as a fortuitous number in some parts of the world.

[Noel]

Yeah. I mean, the obvious one is lucky number seven, I think.

[Ben Bullen]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Noel]

I don't know. Let's see.

[Ben Bullen]

I like three.

[Noel]

Three Trinity. Three. Yeah, the Holy Trinity. Which I probably would be a reasoning behind that being a lucky number. But I am also fascinated about. We briefly mentioned it up top, but like, what makes numbers have power in the. That Kabbalah tradition of Jewish mysticism. I need to re. I need. Yeah, I need to revisit PI. To maybe answer some of those questions or just do a little digging. But man, Ben, what a great research doc you put together on this one. It's such a cool topic and I had a lot of fun talking about it with you.

[Ben Bullen]

Well, we're going to spin this out so we don't end on 44. Big big thanks to our super producer, Mr. Max Williams. Big thanks to our brother at arms, Alex Williams, who composed this slap and bop. Have you checked in with him? I miss him a little.

[Noel]

I miss him quite a lot. I haven't talked to him in a hot minute, but I do owe him a poke to use the antiquated Facebook parlance. Yeah, and huge thanks to Rachel BigSpinaChlantz will be joining us soon if she has anything to do with it, because we're really bad at email, but we really are excited to have her talk about some underwater explosiony type stuff. Big thanks to Jonathan Strickland the Quizzer AJ Bahamas Jacobs the Puzzler Medium thanks.

[Ben Bullen]

To Jonathan Strickland AKA the Quizzer. Big thanks to Eve's Jeff Goat, Christopher Haotes here in spirit the Rude dudes at Ridiculous Crime. Big thanks to Dr. Venkman, Apollo and the Cat with a Thousand Names. Also, don't think I forgot Max. Big thanks to Sylvia.

[Noel]

See you next time folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows this Labor Day.

[Washable Sofas Advertiser]

Say goodbye to spills, stains and overpriced furniture with washablesofas.com beginning featuring Anibe, the only machine washable sofa inside and out where designer quality meets budget friendly pricing. Sofas start at just $6.99, making it the perfect time to upgrade your space. Anibe's pet friendly stain resistant and interchangeable slipcovers are made with high performance fabric built for real life. You'll love the cloud like comfort of hypoallergenic, high resilience foam that never needs fluffing and a durable steel frame that stands the test of time with modular pieces you can rearrange anytime. It's a sofa that adapts to your life now through Labor Day. Get up to 60% off site [e-mail] Every order comes with a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping, no restocking fees. Every penny back. Shop [e-mail] Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman]

I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the Psychology Podcast Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about how to be a better you when you think about emotion regulation, you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome. Avoidance is easier. Ignoring is easier. Denial is easier. Complex problem solving takes effort. Listen to the Psychology podcast on the iHeartRadio Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jacob Schick]

It's important that we just reassure people that they're not alone and there is help out there.

[Good Stuff Podcast Hosts]

The Good Stuff Podcast Season two takes a deep look into One Tribe Foundation, a nonprofit fighting suicide in the veteran community. September is National Suicide Prevention Month, so join hosts Jacob and Ashley Schick as they bring you to the front lines of One Tribe's mission.

[Ben Bullen]

One Tribe saved my life twice.

[Washable Sofas Advertiser]

Welcome to Season two of the Good Stuff.

[Good Stuff Podcast Hosts]

Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Bullen]

Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor and.

[Enya Umanzor and Drew Phillips]

I'm Drew Phillips and we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated adhd, oh my God. Park perfect and want to hear people with mental illness psycho babble? Yes, then Emergency Intercom's the podcast for you. Open your free iHeartradio app, search Emergency Intercom and listen Now.

[Ben Bullen]

This is an iHeart podcast.