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- [00:00]
A
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartradio. Welcome back to the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you as always, so much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our super producer, Mr. Max Williams.
- [00:39]
B
Whoa.
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C
I am secretly a tree in disguise. What a good disguise it is too. Sway in the breeze. So calming.
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A
And that's Mr. Noel Brown. Let's give it up for him.
- [00:52]
C
I'm more of a stump kind of figure.
- [00:54]
A
Oh, don't do it. I could see you as a willow, not a weepy one.
- [00:58]
C
To be clear. Weepy. From time to time I've been known to weep. It's you, Ben, by the way. Yes.
- [01:04]
A
Yeah, Ben Bullen from earlier today. Folks, we wanted to let you know that we love trees and we hope that isn't a hot take. Could I tell you guys a quick little anecdote? And this is something that's been on my mind.
- [01:21]
C
A tree tale. A tree tale, yes, sir, by all means.
- [01:24]
A
Okay, so you know, Max, I don't know if you're aware of this, you probably are because I'm insufferable. But Noel, you're well aware that I have been in a long term relationship with a murderer of crows.
- [01:38]
C
Oh, I thought you were gonna say with a field of willows, a grove. I thought you'd say a murderer.
- [01:45]
A
So here's.
- [01:46]
C
I mean, I am familiar with this devil's pact you've made with these corvids. Yes.
- [01:52]
A
Yeah. Oh, corvid's nice. We got a whistle and everything. So, local scoop here on the ground is that there are these awesome trees. These awesome, magnificent trees right in my area. And I befriended crows who lived in those trees. However, the people who own those trees recently did some tree cutting work. They didn't cut down the whole tree, they didn't stump it. But they cut off the branches of these trees for safety and power lines.
- [02:26]
C
And they just remembered it.
- [02:28]
A
Look what they've done to our boy. Yeah, they mutilated it. And this scared away our local murder of crows. However, as we were coming in to record today, Noel, the crows have returned. And they left me a thing.
- [02:48]
C
A shiny object perchance. I mean, it doesn't have to have been shiny.
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A
It's not the best.
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C
An object.
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A
A button.
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C
That's a. They found a. That is so crow.
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A
And they were like humans, right? Our favorite human from earlier. That guy is human. So clearly he likes buttons also.
- [03:08]
C
I mean, it's very clear that he's missing a key button on his. His signature blazer.
- [03:14]
A
That's what I'm sure That was their thought process.
- [03:17]
C
They clocked it. They're thoughtful creatures.
- [03:19]
A
They're thoughtful and avengeful and they're the best friends you can have or the worst enemies. Similar to, like the mafia.
- [03:27]
C
And that's because, much like the mafia, the crows remember.
- [03:30]
A
The crows remember. And so why are we telling you this anecdote, folks? Fellow ridiculous historians? It's because of this. This is what occurred to us watching our tree friends get dismembered. It wouldn't have happened if that tree owned itself.
- [03:48]
C
Wait a minute, I don't understand. No, I'm kidding. I'm being coy. I do. Actually, that's not true. I don't fully understand the logistics of it. We are in fact talking about a very tree, a legendary tree located in our fair state of Georgia in nearby Athens, Georgia, of university Ed football and of course music fame. The University of Georgia Go Dogs is there. It's where bands like R.E.M. and the B52s and more recently like the Elephant 6 collective, Olivia Truman control Ben Hackett. Buddy Ben Hackett. He lives there and he's big. He's legendary in his own right. And he also owns himself, which makes sense from perspective. We have agency as humans. Our lives are our own. But how does that work for a tree? And is a tree a living thing in this context? Or is it like an inanimate object? Like, can a couch own itself?
- [04:44]
A
Yeah, that's a great question, Noel. And I'm going to lean on you for part of this because you've spent more time in Athens, Georgia than I have. You know, you're well acquainted with the music scene. You move in and out. We also want to give a shout out to our pal Christopher Haciotes, who is here in spirit.
- [05:04]
C
Could I bury the lead and work in reverse and never get to the thing? There's a tree there in Athens that owns itself. Just making sure. I don't know if I dropped that particular breadcrumb yet, so I did things a little out of order. But yes, indeed, that is the question here. How does this tree actually own itself? Is it just the stuff of legend? If it were to be true, how is it possible we're going to get right into this little known legend of the tree that owns itself. The story, whether true or a tall tale of the tree that owns itself there in Athens, Georgia?
- [05:38]
D
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [05:43]
E
Everybody knows Shaq, but off camera, he's.
- [05:45]
C
Just a regular guy.
- [05:46]
B
People never believe me when I say I'm just like them. I take out the trash, do dishes, and I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or osa. And a lot of adults with obesity also struggle with moderate to severe osa. You know those scary breathing interruptions during sleep, the loud snoring, choking and daytime fatigue. I knew I had to talk to my doctor. Don't sleep on the symptoms. Learn more at don'tsleep on OSA.com this.
- [06:10]
C
Information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company man. People really love Harry Potter and you too now can experience Harry Potter stories like you've never heard them before on Audible.
- [06:22]
A
Yeah, that's right, Harry Potter the Full Cast Audio Editions presents J.K. rowling's iconic series as a phenomenal, spellbinding listening event for your entire family.
- [06:34]
C
The first story in the series, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, is available now, with new audiobooks in the series releasing every month thereafter.
- [06:40]
A
It's Harry Potter like you've never heard it before. Listen on audible. Go to audible.com HP1 and start listening today.
- [06:51]
F
Hear that? That's what it sounds like when you plant more trees than you harvest. Work done by thousands of working forest professionals like Adam, a district forest manager who works to protect our forests from fires.
- [07:03]
G
Keeping the forest fire resistant synonymous with keeping the forest healthy. And we do that through planting more than we harvest and mitigate those risks through active management. It's a long term commitment.
- [07:15]
F
Visit workingforestsinitiatiatiative.com to learn more.
- [07:19]
D
Want Black Friday Prices without the crowds? Lowe's gets it. Shop their early Black Friday deals and beat the rush. $99 is all you need to grab a select 7 foot pre lit artificial Christmas tree for the holidays. And don't sweat what gifts to get dad. They have up to 40% off select tools and accessories going on now. That's how Lowes celebrates Black Friday. Early selection varies by location while supplies last.
- [07:45]
A
250 years ago, a promise was made to connect families and friends near and far.
- [07:51]
C
And during the holidays, that promise is more important than ever.
- [07:55]
A
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- [08:06]
C
Their purpose is delivering your peace of mind, knowing your love will arrive, bringing.
- [08:11]
A
Joy to all the United States Postal Service.
- [08:15]
C
Learn more@usps.com holidays.
- [08:24]
A
All right, here's this story and we want to shout out all of our fellow ridiculous historians who have ever seen a tree that we really loved. If you go to Athens, Georgia, over at the corner of South Finley and Deering street, you will see a white oak, or get this man, the technical name for it, Quercus alba.
- [08:48]
C
It's quirky. Athens is quirky. Keep Athens weird, y'. All.
- [08:51]
A
So Quercus alba, this white oak, somehow apparently, according to the lore, has legal ownership of itself and all of the land within 8ft of its base.
- [09:04]
C
You know, this makes me think of immediately this idea of, like, wealthy people deeding their, you know, their estates to their beloved pet or something like that.
- [09:15]
A
Wasn't there a televangelist who deeded stuff to their dog?
- [09:19]
C
That seems like something one of them might do. The original tree in question here is thought to have begun its lifespan, which, as we know for trees, can be quite long in the mid 16th and late 18th century. So the tree in question, the original tree in question, is thought to have started its tree life, which, as we know, can be quite long. And, Ben, I'm sure that you're on the same page with me about this. One thing I think we dig about trees is this idea of there being a living history. You know, it's this idea of just picturing what it was like all around it. You know, lo those many years ago when it was just a little sapling. It was thought to have begun its life in the mid 16th to late 18th century, but was felled in 1942.
- [10:05]
A
Yeah, yeah. However, as we'll see here, a bit of a spoiler, folks. A new tree was grown from one of its acorns and then planted in the same location. This currant tree, as we'll find, is sometimes referred to as the son of the tree that owns itself, which feels like such a horror movie sequel.
- [10:27]
C
Hammer Horror. Hammer Horror. Exactly.
- [10:29]
B
Exactly.
- [10:29]
C
Like Bride of Frankenstein. And again, so Athens. They're so quirky over there. And like I was saying earlier, trees do tend to have quite long lifespans along with their descendants, because every one of those little acorns that gets dropped has the potential to be carried hither and yon and start a whole new tree.
- [10:47]
A
Every acorn can become a great oak, just like you folks.
- [10:52]
C
I know. Isn't that like one of those, like, you're doing great kind of cat hanging from the off of a tree posters you'd see in, like, choir class when you're in school?
- [11:00]
A
Or like Andre 3000 said in the recent Rock and Roll hall of Fame induction for Outkast, it starts in little rooms.
- [11:09]
C
There you go. Yeah, we can relate to that. We started in little rooms, too. Remember the little room we used to podcast in with the boarded up windows podcast begun Heck, to this day, a lot of podcasts happen in the littlest of rooms, AKA closets. And to give some lifespan stats, a lot of these types of trees can live up to 450 years. So it is a safe bet that the first tree had been in that spot for quite a very long time, way before there was any need for legal loopholes and shenanigan ring.
- [11:40]
A
Ooh, let's mention that part. Yeah. So for anybody who is not familiar, yes, folks, here in the United States, and indeed the world overall, it is unusual for a tree to own itself. Trees are considered like pretty much all other plant life, meaning they're not typically recognized as legal entities with agency in the United States. Instead, they're considered part and parcel of the land itself. So, for instance, if, like Max Nolan, I decide to buy a few acres in Tennessee as we build our fallout bunker, our purchase is not just gonna include the actual surface, but the land beneath it, as well as all of the plants and trees growing on it. They don't get a say?
- [12:31]
C
Mm, mm. No. It's sort of a package deal. Can we go in on this parcel of land with our buddy, the Tennessee pal?
- [12:40]
A
Yeah, yeah, of course. We'll include Dylan. Yeah.
- [12:42]
C
Yes, we must. Yes, we must. We gotta start our fallout doomsday bunker commune, you know, for the end times.
- [12:48]
A
Yeah, we should have started a year. That was the best time. But the. The second best time is today.
- [12:55]
C
The second best time is always the present. There's no second best better time than the present.
- [13:01]
A
There we go. So why is this story different? Well, we looked into it, and as far as we can tell, the earliest primary source confirmed record of this tale dates back to a front page article in the Athens Weekly Banner, Aug. 12, 1890, written by someone will never know an anonymous author. So someone just posted as anon there in the Weekly Banner, which is just.
- [13:36]
C
The most wholesome name for a small town newspaper, if I might say.
- [13:40]
A
I would say my favorite wholesome local newspaper name is Picayune. I don't know why.
- [13:49]
C
I also like the Plain Dealer is another fun one.
- [13:53]
A
I think I like Picayune because it's just such a unusual specific word. Anyway, so according to this anonymous author who may have had a horse in the race here, the tree in question was on the property of a guy named Colonel William Henry Jackson. And William Henry Jackson was a real person, is kind of murky, and was super duper, duper connected.
- [14:22]
C
He was the son of James Jackson, a Revolutionary War soldier who later went on to become a congressman and then A senator. And in the typical Southern trajectory of politics, he then became the governor.
- [14:37]
A
Yeah. As you do. And so our old Colonel Willie was also the brother of. Of another congressman. I need help on this. Name. Jabez Young Jackson. J, A, B, E, Z. I haven't met a Jabez in real life, I haven't.
- [14:53]
C
And in my mind, I want to make the J a soft J and have it be a Yabez. I don't know why. It just sounds like fun. It could go either way. Jabez is another perfectly good version. And Colonel William Willie. Willie boy was also the father of another James Jackson, who himself would have quite the meteoric rise in politics. He became a congressman and eventually the chief justice of Georgia's Supreme Court.
- [15:19]
A
Yeah. These things we can prove, however.
- [15:23]
G
That's true.
- [15:24]
A
These things we can prove. Not necessarily the providence of the tree, but to understand the story, this pitch from the Athens Weekly Banner, we gotta look a little closer into Colonel Willie. So Colonel Willie sounds like a euphemism, right?
- [15:42]
C
Sounds like something that. What Big Jumbo would have said. That was what he called. Who was that?
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A
Who was.
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C
Who was the Big Jumbo guy?
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A
Lyndon Johnson.
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C
Lyndon B. Johnson.
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A
President.
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C
His. His old fella. As Big Jumbo.
- [15:55]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. As Jumbo Ed, would he have been? It was. It was definitely not Dumbo. You're right. It was Jumbo. Would he have. If he had not become a politician or president, would Lyndon Johnson just have been some creepy guy in his local town who had a name for his Australia?
- [16:15]
C
Absolutely.
- [16:16]
A
Absolutely. He was a character. Consistent. So. All right, here's the thing, folks. We know that Colonel Willie was allegedly, apparently a professor at UGA. He was sometimes referred to as Dr. Jackson in reporting of the day, but we haven't proved that yet. We have reached out to the University of Georgia to ask them if they can verify any sort of tenure or time spent teaching students. So we'll catch you up when we hear back.
- [16:50]
C
You know, it's funny. I have been actually going to Athens a great deal lately. A good friend of mine, a friend of the show, Eric Kinlaw, recently moved there. And I lived there years ago. My kid went to school there for some years. And I also grew up going to shows there. So it is a really near and dear place to me. But there's a lot of little legendary things there in Athens that are connected to history, that are connected to the university, and that are connected to music lore. One of which was this really cool little soul food restaurant called Weaver D's, whose motto to this day, it's on their handwritten little sign is automatic for the people. Which is of course the title of one of the most popular and famous REM albums. And all the time I've spent there, I only just when Eric moved there, went and ate there and it was phenomenal. Had a meet in three situation. The dude that runs it, a guy in the kitchen, classic, you know, southern soul food, meat and three type joint. And then I just found out a week or so ago that it closed. It is, but at least I got to eat there once. But legendary and sad that it went away.
- [17:56]
A
So there, there are a lot of local legends in Athens because it is such a phenomenal college town. You know, there's the double barreled cannon, the university arch. Yeah. And the tree that owns itself now is part of this. Another thing we can't prove about our buddy Willie Jackson is the nature of his military service nor any publicly available records of how he attained the rank of Colonel.
- [18:28]
C
Ooh, Ben, you know, it's another kind of facet of southern gentry. Oh yeah, calling you're calling yourself the Colonel, when of course you don't have to actually have attained a rank of Colonel, militarily speaking to go by the colonel. Wouldn't you agree?
- [18:42]
A
Yeah, they used to call me. They used to call me Colonel Angus.
- [18:47]
C
Oh, don't get me started on Colonel Angus. Don't we call your pops the Colonel sometimes?
- [18:52]
A
He is actually. Yeah.
- [18:54]
C
Okay. He did attain the rank, so he came by it honestly. But it's true. We do think of Colonel as being somewhat of a Southern gentlemanly nickname sometimes.
- [19:04]
A
Isn't that weird how that happens in specifically the southeastern United States, not just with military rank, but with religious rank. Like there will be people who call themselves bishop so and so. But you're not Catholic.
- [19:20]
C
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's also like the murkiness of the term cousin that gets thrown around a lot as well. But that's not just a southern thing, man. People really love Harry Potter. And you too now can experience Harry Potter stories like you've never heard them before on audible.
- [19:38]
A
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- [19:49]
C
It is quite the romp. The Full Cast Audio Editions features a spectacular A list cast including Hugh Laurie. I think we all love. We love Hugh Albus. Yeah, yeah. Dr. House MD as Albus Dumbledore and Riz Ahmed as Severus Snape.
- [20:06]
A
Folks, this one is just phenomenal. For any fellow longtime Harry Potter fans, this is a delightful new way to introduce the stories to a new generation.
- [20:18]
C
The first story in the series, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, is available now, with new audiobooks in the series releasing every month thereafter.
- [20:24]
A
It's Harry Potter like you've never heard it before. Listen on audible go to audible.com HP1 and start listening today.
- [20:35]
F
Hear that? That's what it sounds like when you plant more trees than you harvest. Work done by thousands of working forest professionals like Adam, a district forest manager who works to protect our forests from fires.
- [20:47]
G
Keeping the forest fire resistant synonymous with keeping a forest healthy. And we do that through planting more than we harvest and mitigate those risks through active management. It's a long term commitment.
- [20:59]
F
Visit workingforestsinitiatiatiative.com to learn more.
- [21:03]
C
Everybody knows Shaq, but off camera he's just a regular guy.
- [21:06]
B
People never believe me when I say I'm just like them. I take out the trash, do dishes and I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea or osa. And a lot of adults with obesity also struggle with moderate to severe osa. You know those scary breathing interruptions during sleep, the loud snoring, choking and daytime fatigue. I knew I had to talk to my doctor. Don't sleep on the symptoms. Learn more at don'tsleeponosa.com this information is.
- [21:31]
C
Provided by Lilly, a medicine company.
- [21:35]
A
And.
- [21:36]
E
Doug here we have the limu imu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.
- [21:51]
C
Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.
- [21:54]
E
Cut the camera. They see us.
- [21:55]
C
Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Very underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Co. Affiliates excludes Massachusetts.
- [22:03]
A
This episode of Ridiculous History is brought to you in part by American Public University.
- [22:08]
C
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- [22:12]
A
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C
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- [22:17]
A
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- [22:43]
C
So what we do know is that our boy Will H. Jackson, AKA Colonel Willie, who definitely had Big Willie style, which I only just recently realized is somewhat of a euphemism in its own right. Even though Will Smith didn't need a cuss in his rap to sell records, he did love a good innuendo.
- [23:00]
A
Yeah, it's okay, man. It took me forever to figure out the main ingredient in soy sauce is indeed soy.
- [23:07]
C
It's true. Yeah. And you know, it's a good soy sauce.
- [23:09]
A
Most of it's wheat now.
- [23:11]
C
That's true. You know what I love is a good mushroom soy sauce. I have one that I've been using. And Will Smith might argue that he had no ill intent with that title and that it was entirely clean.
- [23:22]
A
He had a will intent for sure.
- [23:25]
C
So William H. Jackson did own the property on the opposite side of Deering street that was adjacent to that tree. The plot included the addressed 226 Deering street as it stands today. And in the early 19th century, it was at that point just a lot with the designation of number 14. The tree is located on a portion of what had been lot number 15.
- [23:52]
A
Yeah, yeah. So there was proximity. Right. And Colonel Willie is living in his area with his wife. Wife Mildred. And eventually, along with a character named JA Cobb. Don't memorize the name because he never shows up again. Along with this guy, they sold their property collectively, this lot, to a dude named Dr. Malthus Ward.
- [24:19]
C
Dr. Malthus.
- [24:20]
A
He sounds like a necromancer.
- [24:22]
C
He does. A little bit Malthusian, perhaps.
- [24:25]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [24:26]
C
That was in 18.
- [24:29]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is the same year that is cited on a local plaque as being the date the tree got deeded to itself. If you go to the Clark county real estate records, you'll see there is no indication of when or from whom Colonel Willie originally purchased the property. This helps inform the legend. Right. So according to the story, our buddy will really love this freaking tree if you can. We do. Let's give it to you, Noel. Can you give us a real like Colonel Angus scene? Chewing voice Get. Get your julip stars, get your julep together and let's. Can we share this clip from the Athens Weekly Banner?
- [25:20]
C
Giving me the. The vapors there, Ben. Talking about Colonel Angus. Colonel Jackson had watched the tree grow from his childhood and GRE of it almost as he would a human. It's luxuriant foliage and sturdy limbs had often protected him from the heavy rains. I'm mixing it up here a bit, but no, you're nailing out. And. And out of its highest branches, he had many a time gotten the eggs of the feathered songsters. He watched its growth. And when on reaching a ripe old age, he saw the tree standing in its magnificent, magnificent proportions. And now I'm doing a little bit of a British thing. I'm coming back, I'm coming back. He was pined to think that after his death it would fall into the hands of them what might destroy it. I added the take him to church.
- [26:10]
A
I liked it so.
- [26:12]
C
And God.
- [26:13]
A
Yeah, right. So testify there. So according to this article, our boy, due to his close childhood association with this white oak, or quercus alba, he deeds the tree ownership of itself and the surrounding land. And he does it in an attempt to ensure that no one, including future family members, will ever be able to knock it down.
- [26:44]
C
Well, here's the question. And we might get into this. We are going to get into this, the legal loophole of it all. But it's like if you don't leave your property to an heir and you don't have an heir, what happens to it? Does it just like go to the county? Like is. Is if. If there's no one there to keep it up or. Cause obviously this would also require some dispensation or footnote for upkeep. Right. Like if the tree owns itself, the tree can't trim itself or take care of the land around it. But yeah, maybe back to my original question. What does happen happen if like, I guess, is it then sold off? It's bidded on? Like, I guess I don't know the details of what happens when there is no heir to pass property onto.
- [27:31]
A
Yeah, it's a little outside our scope because it varies from country to country and indeed from state to state. There are actually online, just for a tangent here, there are websites you can check that will tell you if you are the rightful biological inheritor of a thing. So usually it goes to the closest living relative before the state or big government takes possession.
- [28:05]
C
That can happen if that doesn't end up working out, like you said, with the closest living relative. And there's a term here that is getting used that is new to me. Instacy. Intestacy. Intestacy, yes. And the process, the legal process you're talking about of transferring it to the state is called escheatment. We're learning so many new, very esoteric legalese words today.
- [28:31]
A
Yes, just like J A Cobb. They may not come up again, but let's see if we can give ourselves bonus points for using those terms in Sheetman and. Intensacy.
- [28:45]
C
Intestacy.
- [28:47]
A
Intestacy in sheepman.
- [28:49]
C
Okay. Intestacy and enshevement.
- [28:52]
A
If we can use those phrases. Max, I need you in on this. If we can use those phrases again organically, like a tree, by the end of this episode, we give ourselves 820 to 832 bonus points.
- [29:10]
C
Yeah, I don't know if it's possible, but. Ben, it's so specific. But I. Hey, I'm. I'm on board. Let's see if it can happen. I look forward to it. I'm willing to play your Reindeer Games. Reindeer Games.
- [29:20]
A
I love it. And I'm still mad at Matt for nagging me on a recent episode of Stuff they don't want you to know. When I was like, I'll play Reindeer Games, he's like, no, these aren't Reindeer Games.
- [29:33]
C
Well, I mean, maybe he was just dead serious, you know?
- [29:35]
A
Yeah, he's a serious guy. And please do check out Stuff they don't want you to know. You'll. If you dig our show, you'll hopefully love that show. I usually say that, Noel, but it's weird because we host that and create that show as well.
- [29:50]
C
It's true.
- [29:50]
B
Yeah.
- [29:50]
C
But I think there's some truth to that. If you dig this, you'll probably dig that. And actually, the next episode we're about to record for ridiculous history very much would be right at home on Stuff they don't want you to Know. We're talking about a little bit of a true crime murder mystery, which is.
- [30:04]
A
A little out of.
- [30:05]
C
Out of the spot scope of what we usually do here. So look forward to that. Also involves something that's been in the news lately. Tylenol.
- [30:10]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's in the Zeitgeist. Now if you go to Athens, according to the story, which, and we could confirm this, you'll see this idea of deeding a tree, legal ownership of itself, took place somewhere between 1820 and 1832. How do we know that? There is a commemorative plaque on the tree's retaining wall that claims it attained independence in 1832. If I could chew a bit of scenery and sip a julep on this one, we'll give you the text. Oh, that's a mean julep. I'm kidding. It's iced coffee. But here we go. For and in consideration the great love I bel this tree and the great desire I have for its protection for all time, I convey entire possession of itself and all land within 8ft of this tree on all sides. William H. Or Jackson.
- [31:16]
C
Really odd too, the way the lines are broken up in this one. Yeah, it's just funny. We got four and in consideration. And then line two of the great love I bear. Line three, this tree and the great. It's almost like a. It reads like a poem. And it is poetry, especially the way you recited it, Ben. So, per that article, the actual deed in question uses the following language. I, W.H. jackson of the county of Clark county of the one part, and the oak tree of the county of Clark of the other part. Witness. Witness that the said W.H. jackson for. And in consideration of the great affection which he bears said tree, as stated in the placard, and his great desire to see it protected has conveyed and by these presents do convey unto the said oak tree entire possession of itself and of all land within 8ft of.
- [32:12]
A
It on all sides or 2.4 meters. Right? Yeah. This is weird. Okay, so this is a thing that confused us. And just to be clear, if this is an actual deed, what he's saying is that when he says Clark County, Clark of the one part, he's talking about one party in a negotiation, and he is the other part. Colonel Willie. So this all comes to us from Athens Weekly Banner, and it was again written anonymously decades after this purported dedication back in the 18 in 1832.
- [32:52]
C
I love this idea of the oak tree having residency in Clark County. Like, I just. All of this reads like an elaborate prank.
- [33:00]
A
Also, I love the Southern idea, too. This feel. Okay, so we. We discover all sorts of weird turns of phrases that we make up here. Seahorse teeth shut straight seahorse teeth shut your wet mouth, et cetera. One thing that I think would be really great for us whip out if somebody's getting big for their britches at a party is to say, tell me what you think of this, though. Is to say, you, sir, have lost possession of yourself.
- [33:31]
C
Oh, yeah, for sure. You know, it's funny, Ben, that makes me think. I meant to bring this up earlier. The idea of owning oneself or a self own is typically negative. It sort of means you, like, played yourself or you. I use it a lot in playing Mario Kart, where if you hit yourself with your own green shell, that is a self own or an own goal.
- [33:53]
A
When they bounce.
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C
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Them not to say that. I'm no superhuman. Believe it or not, I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea or OSA in adults with obesity. Moderate to severe OSA is a condition where breathing is interrupted during sleep sleep with loud snoring, choking, gasping for air, and even daytime fatigue. Let's just say it can sound a lot like this. Sound familiar? Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by.
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Uh, limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.
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Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Very unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.
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This episode of Ridiculous History is brought to you in part by American Public University.
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Learn more about APU's 40 plus career relevant master's degrees and certificates at APU APUS EDU APU built for the Hustle. Ed, we're bouncing into a question that we've been teasing for a moment now. Is this story actually true?
- [37:22]
C
Yeah, and I maybe tipped my hand a little bit to where I fall on the issue. It does feel. It does have big prank vibes to it or just kind of. I don't know. Again, Athens is a kooky place, evens far back as this history. So this idea of sort of like a quirky bit of a. Almost like a piece of satire. Right. So we do love a story, as do the people of Athens. The story of the tree that owns itself is widely known, at least in the area, and is almost presented as fact, you know, about the tree that owns itself. There it is right there. It's like a bit of a tourist attraction. However, only one person, the anonymous author of the article in the Athens Banner Herald, I believe, deeded to its. He's the only one who ever apparently saw the deed to the tree or claimed to claim to have seen that bit of paperwork, which is odd. And certainly if it isn't filed with the county or in some way, you know, acknowledged in, like, the land records, then surely none of this is going to hold up in court. Not to be a party pooper, but we'll get to that. So most writers acknowledge that the deed has either been lost or no longer exists, which I guess is the same as being lost. Maybe it was burned or something. Flushed, shredded, if it ever did in the first place.
- [38:42]
A
Yeah, that's the badger in the bag. That's the pickle of it. Because we're not going to dox anybody. But a good friend of ours, good friend of the show, makes a living hunting down old deeds.
- [38:58]
C
A lot of history in them. Papers.
- [39:00]
A
A lot of weird names, too.
- [39:03]
C
Yeah, we love it when Frank sends us a screenshot of some weird.
- [39:07]
A
Just dox them.
- [39:08]
C
No, didn't dox them too hard. Unless you worry he's doxing anybody. Whatever he sends us, he redacts.
- [39:13]
B
He does.
- [39:14]
C
He really does. All pertinent information, alternate information, but sometimes there's some kooky names that he comes across. And some of these deeds are so old that they haven't even been scanned into digital resources or into digital, you know, searchable libraries. So a lot of times for super old stuff, our buddy will have to go to, you know, a physical courthouse and, like, dig through these archives and.
- [39:40]
A
Find, you know, an old scroll of parchment that's. I love how I said parchment.
- [39:45]
C
I love it. And we should keep it. And I'm also going to say it that way from this day hence, this is where a thing like this, were it to have existed, which should. Should have been filed.
- [39:55]
A
Right, Right, right. Unless it was a courthouse fire or something. But regardless, even if you find the deed, it would not have legal gravitas. It wouldn't have legal bearing. Because under common law, or what we just say, let's just say it as commonly understood law, to be a recipient of a piece of property in the United States, one must have the legal capacity to receive such property. It has to be delivered to and accepted by the recipient. This is impossible for a tree to do at present.
- [40:35]
C
They should have talked to that Dr. Seuss guy. What's his name? He speaks for the trees. The Lorax name. Yeah, the Lorax. He could have been their interpreter because he speaks for the trees and he could have represented them in a court of law.
- [40:47]
A
Yeah, he's like Dr. Dolittle for plants. Anyway, we do know Jackson. Here's where it gets even more murky. So we do know that Colonel Willie Jackson did live near this white oak. We can prove that he lived there for at least four years when he was a young man and he was married, because we know he was living there with his wife, but he had actually not grown up there. He grew up nearby in Jefferson County. So it is diplomatically put, extremely unlikely that he would have any cherished childhood memories of the oak because he simply was not there.
- [41:28]
C
Yeah, that would typically be reserved for a stately tree that might have grown in the backyard or at the very least in a nearby, you know, meadow from a young kid, because he's not going to be wandering off to other counties as a young lad. So this wouldn't hold up in court. But the question then becomes, where is the benefit of like really openly challenging.
- [41:53]
A
A lot of this stuff?
- [41:55]
C
It would be kind of a move, a Grinch like move.
- [41:58]
A
Absolutely. Yeah. Be so mean spirited. Everybody would be confused and irritated by you, including the judge, by the way, if it went to. If it went to that level. If you go to Athens Clark county today, you'll see that they confirmed the tree is in what they call the right of way and is, quote, accepted for care by municipal authorities. So to your earlier question, Noel, the tree, including son of tree, the tree is taken care of by the local city and county government. And if you go to the adjacent property there, you'll see everybody is kind of pitched in. There's stewards who help take care of the tree that owns itself and want to give a weird specific shout out to something called the Athens Junior Ladies Garden Club. They're the primary advocate of the tree.
- [43:00]
C
That's right. They tend to its needs and make sure it's trimmed and watered and all that there are.
- [43:06]
A
Lorax.
- [43:07]
C
They are indeed. They speak for the tree that owns itself. And they also track down another small tree that was grown from an acorn taken from the original tree. That was what led to, if I'm not mistaken, Ben, the son of tree. Right.
- [43:24]
A
Yeah. So even before the original tree that owns itself passed away, the local government said, you know what? Is this technically legal? Who cares? We all love trees. And this carried on after the death of the original tree, which is sometimes called the Jackson Oak, as we set up in the beginning on October 9, 1942, this tree, which was estimated to be 200 to 400 years old. We need some dendochronology to verify this, which is the study of tree rings, the rumor has it. Isn't that a Dell song study of tree rings? Rumor has it.
- [44:13]
C
Ah, yes, I'm sure it is.
- [44:14]
A
And her other off her album Dendo Chronology. So, yeah, so the tree, tree was not hewn down by humans. It fell as a result of a windstorm. Or it may have already died and its roots were rotting. And as he said, our friends at the Junior Ladies Garden Club, about four years later, they tracked down a smaller tree, kind of a sapling status tree that was grown from an acorn taken from the original tree. And then. Then they teamed up with a boffin at the College of Agriculture.
- [44:52]
C
Yeah, a real ag head and a tree aficionado named Roy Bowden. And this little tree, little sapling, as you said, Ben, was transplanted to the location of the original tree that owned itself, its forebear. A couple months later, there was a ceremony held featuring the mayor of Athens at the time, Robert L. McWhorth. And to commemorate the occasion, they established a new plaque that is there to this day. You want to read that one for us, Ben?
- [45:23]
A
Absolutely. The tree that owns itself. And this is in the same weird formatting that we talked about earlier.
- [45:30]
C
The lines are oddly split.
- [45:31]
A
Right. They must be writing it in a.
- [45:34]
C
Well, maybe in a way that suits the designer. Yeah, I don't know.
- [45:37]
A
Like we'd have to write into the cube or something.
- [45:40]
C
Probably true.
- [45:40]
A
Yeah. The tree that owns itself, Huercus alba. Deeded to itself by Colonel William H. Jackson circa 1832. This scion of the original tree was planted by the Junior Ladies garden club in 1946. National register of historic places, 1975. Athens historical landmark 1988 now we've got.
- [46:05]
C
Landmark status, historical landmark status that people are now referring to this. I mean people in the know as the son of the tree that owns itself. Assuming and believing the tale that it is. In fact, I think this is the part that likely is true. The original tree's heir. So now you can take a tour. There's a couple of fun self guided tours that you can take in Athens. The Athens Clarke County welcome center will hook you up with the literature to do that. You might also see their. There's a famous train trestle. The Murmur Trestle has something to do with REM again. And then there's also like an Athens Music Walk of Fame, much like the Hollywood Walk of Fame with like plaques of different musical luminaries from there. It's really, really rich in its history and its culture and all that stuff.
- [46:56]
A
I want to go back. We should call Christopher Odis. I want to go hang out there and check out also catch up with Eric about Force Go Ghost. That's his band, right?
- [47:05]
C
Yeah, that's right.
- [47:05]
B
Yeah.
- [47:06]
C
And we're actually doing a new music project together and we have started messing with. And that's part of the reason I've been going there a lot. So it's been a lot of fun dope.
- [47:15]
A
And we also want to note folks that while there is one official the son of the tree that owns itself. A lot of people took acorns from the original tree and from its heir and planted their own, such as trees.
- [47:32]
C
Right.
- [47:33]
A
So cool.
- [47:33]
C
Super cool. Yeah. I love the idea of like an heirloom thing. Right. That's sort of what that means. I think if you take seeds from a tomato or a plant and then you replant them, that becomes like an heirloom version.
- [47:45]
A
Yeah.
- [47:46]
C
And that's so neat the way that stuff can again be part of history.
- [47:49]
A
Did you know that for a few decades back or this continues now for quite some time, especially in the southern US there have been people who of their own volition did deep forensic food way research to recover lost types of rice or tomatoes like Carolina.
- [48:13]
C
I've heard rumblings about that. How does that work?
- [48:17]
A
It's an episode for a new dance.
- [48:19]
C
That's how. Yeah.
- [48:21]
A
Science, Science and a lot of legwork. A lot of detective stuff. We can't wait to hear your thoughts about this, folks. We do want to shout out a little town in Alabama where another tree owns itself. And I'm not rolling my eyes too hard here. I think it's really cool that the local government said technically no. Legally, Nah. But everybody be cool. Cool.
- [48:49]
C
That's why this is why we can't have nice things. Or if you live in Athens, Georgia, why we can have nice things. Because people are just cool.
- [48:56]
A
So here's a question as we end for you, Max, and all our fellow ridiculous historians. Gentlemen, if you could give one non human, non animal thing or object the right to own itself, what would it be? Now, it could be a plant. It could also be an inanimate object that you love.
- [49:19]
C
I already said it at the top. Ben. Couch.
- [49:21]
A
The couch. This couch.
- [49:24]
C
Just couch. Hear ye, hear ye.
- [49:27]
A
I know. Christian Brown hereby, hereby emancipates my couch.
- [49:37]
C
That way they can press charges against JD Vance when he gets up to. To chicanery.
- [49:42]
A
Oh, here we go. All right, Max, what about you?
- [49:45]
C
Oh, my car. Sylvia. There you go. Okay. Love a car with a name.
- [49:50]
H
Okay.
- [49:51]
C
First chair. Sylvia. That's how I refer to her. As long as it's fully paid off. Max, until that point, belongs to the bank.
- [49:58]
A
I ran into Sylvia back when we did our research for the Waffle House episode, which is on the way. Right, folks, you're. You're going to learn a lot about Waffle House, and we can't wait to be there with you. We also can't wait to, as Noel, so beautifully teased, explore the strange story of the Tylenol murders with our research associate, Dylan. In the meantime, big, big thanks to you for tuning in. Big thanks to our super producer, Max Williams, and all our friends in Athens, Georgia. Or in Athens, Tennessee. Or in Athens, Greece.
- [50:35]
C
Or in Athens, Ohio.
- [50:36]
A
Or in Athens, Ohio, which is also a college town.
- [50:40]
C
I believe I went there once. Yeah. And huge thanks to Christopher oiotas. We would love to come kick it with you there in Athens, Georgia. And Yves Jeffcoats, both here in spirit. Alex Williams, who composed our theme, Dr.
- [50:50]
A
Rachel Big Spinach Lance, as well as AJ Bahamas Jacobs, and our own guy that owns himself pretty often, pretty regularly in a Mario Kart sense, that is. Jonathan Strickland, AKA the Quizter.
- [51:07]
C
We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. And now, now, Superhuman Shack.
- [51:25]
B
I keep telling them not to say that. I'm no superhuman. Believe it or not, I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or OSA in adults with obesity. Moderate to severe OSA is a condition where breathing is interrupted during sleep with loud snoring, choking, gasping, for air and even daytime fatigue. Let's just say it can sound a lot like this. Sound familiar? Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by.
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See paypal.com promoter terms can be redeemed for cash and more.
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PayPal Inc. And MLS 910457 this episode is brought to you by PBS, home of Ken Burns. His newest film, the American Revolution, reveals untold stories of people, some familiar, many forgotten, who risked everything to change the course of history. It's the story of a war that was bloody, complex and profoundly consequential. Ken Burns and his co directors Sarah Botstein and David Schmidt shine a light on how this historic fight for independence lit the spark for freedom that still burns today. The American Revolution premieres Sunday, November 16th at 87 Central on PBS and the PBS app. Don't miss it.
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