← Right About Now - Legendary Business Advice
Right About Now - Legendary Business Advice
Destination Citizenship: Navigating Global Mobility and Tax Benefits with Jeremy Savory
00:43:08
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- [00:00]
A
If you've got talent and you've got capital, you can't be wasting it sitting in a high tax jurisdiction. There's countries all around the world saying, come here and you won't pay any taxes for 10 years. Who wouldn't take up that offer?
- [00:12]
B
This is Right about now with Ryan Alford, A Radcast Network production. We are the number one business show on the planet with over 1 million downloads a month, taking the BS out of business for over 6 years and over 400 episodes. You ready to start snapping next and cashing checks? Well, it starts right about now. What's up, guys? Welcome to Right about now. We're always talking about what is now and what's today. We could talk about yesterday, but that doesn't get you anywhere. We could think about tomorrow. And that's what our guest is going to talk a little bit about because the future is here. You need to be thinking about how you get ahead, where you store your money, where do you go in this world, in. In business and in life? That's why we've got Jeremy Savory. He is the president and CEO of Savory and Partners and he's here. Talk a little bit about destination citizenship and getting ahead. What's up, Jeremy?
- [01:14]
A
Hey, how's it going, Ryan?
- [01:16]
B
Hey, man. Good. Good to get rolling officially. I appreciate your patience. Little production stuff there. And we're in Dubai, right? This international show we've developed here. I had a London last week, Dubai this week. We're getting all over the map. How's Dubai?
- [01:36]
A
It's starting to get warm. Start to get a little bit hot.
- [01:39]
B
Is it summertime there? They have similar seasons creeping up.
- [01:42]
A
I think it's gonna be a barbecue. The last barbecue of the year this weekend. And then after that it's indoors.
- [01:48]
B
Ah, yes. What? So Dubai, how hot are we talking? Like I'm in South Carolina. In the States, you know, we get some pretty damn hot summers.
- [01:59]
A
Well, I mean, you can have 50 degrees, July and August. So I mean, you guys use Fahrenheit.
- [02:05]
B
Fahrenheit, yeah. Is that 100?
- [02:07]
A
It's really hot. It's desert hot. It's. It's. Even the, the sea. The sea itself is even warm. You don't even go in the sea because the sea is warm. That's how hot it is. So it's pure pool time. And to be honest with you, most people kind of get out of town for that, you know. Don't be cooking.
- [02:24]
B
Jeremy, I know you got an interesting story. I mean, today we're going to be talking to our audience. I really want you to dig in. You know, what you do is becoming more and more interesting, I think for our audience in particular, being an affluent sort of business audience in, you know, considering citizenship. But I do know you have a pretty unique background and story, so I do want to set the table and give you at least a minute to kind of share that with the audience and kind of what got you in. Into. I mean, it's a unique vertical. I mean, I. I tell you, I mean, I've had a lot. We get a lot of people come and going and that is the first one in that specific thing. But it makes a lot of sense. But. But yeah, do our audience, you know, give us the condensed story. But I. Because I do know you have some pretty unique upbringing.
- [03:13]
A
Yeah, so I grew up in London, London born and bred. And. But I grew up. My parents were deaf, so life growing up was a little bit different to normal people, I would say the average family household. But what it meant is that I. It also helped me to kind of see the world a little bit differently. I had to grow up a lot faster. I had to look after my parents in terms of be their interpreter when I go to the bank or, you know, when we're dealing with insurance. So I had to grow up pretty fast. But it also meant that I didn't have other people telling me societal norms like we. This is how we do things around here. Then I never really traveled until for the first time, really around 18 when I lived overseas. After that, I got the bug. And since then I've traveled to close to 100 countries. I also obtained residencies in multiple countries. I actually picked up my Paraguayan residency this morning through FedEx. I was in Paraguay last year. I have multiple citizenships. I have four. I've got two on the way. And I've just been really curious about the world and all the opportunities the world has given me. And none of this would have happened if I just stayed in the uk there's so much out there that people don't realize because, you know, they want to have the. They say that their state has the best pancakes or the other state has the best burgers, or, you know, we go out to the local bar and sometimes there's an amazing life full of crazy stories you could have if you just travel the world and see that there's ways also to make money as well.
- [04:44]
B
It's really interesting, Jeremy. I didn't until, you know, I've read all about you coming into this, you know, read your story, but not until you kind of said it out loud did I sort of frame thinking about the way you grew up and not experiencing the norms that most people do and having to frame your own. So in a way it made you a free thinker because you didn't have those voices. You know, your parents voices are always in your head. Right. And if you grow up. But having two deaf parents that probably clearly did not speak or, you know.
- [05:22]
A
Yeah, there weren't really that many voices.
- [05:24]
B
Yeah, no voices that I can't. I'm thinking, were you. Do you have any brothers or sisters?
- [05:29]
A
Yeah, I got one brother. Yeah.
- [05:30]
B
Okay.
- [05:31]
A
But I mean the TV had subtitles on all the time. Right. So you know, we, my parents couldn't hear anything, so we could just play any music we wanted. Even like rap music they couldn't hear. You know, don't listen to that type of stuff. The only time that. But there were a few times, like if you were really mad at your parents, you would just cover your mouth and be like, yeah, you know, f you and all that type of stuff. I also remember I used to play.
- [05:55]
B
Was that tough though? I mean. Yeah, there had to, there had to be some. I'm just, I know it wasn't how poor, you know, things were, but I didn't want to do justice to that. That was not.
- [06:08]
A
Be easy. Yeah, it wasn't tough. I mean, kids are brutal as you can imagine. Like, kids just want to blend in. No one wants to be the tall guy because then you get teased. Nobody wants to be the fat guy. Nobody wants to be looking like this. So you just want to kind of blend in and hope that no one spots you. So I just don't want anyone knowing that I was different or my parents were different. But what was really weird is when I got to university, it was actually the opposite. In the university, you would tell people because no one knows you. You're just all strangers in a different part of town and no one knows where you're back from home. And then when you tell people you're really cool, you're like this like interesting, fascinating person. But I think that tells us a lot about society is that one of you, you need to conform and you need to blend in. And then just like a year later you can be purple haired and calling yourself whatever you want. And everyone loves that type of variety. But I think that's a, that's more about society than ourselves. But yeah, it was, it was different. And looking back now, now that I'm Starting to raise my. My public profile because I work in an industry that is quite low profile, should we say, because we help people to obtain second nationalities. But now I see that, like, I started this. This YouTube channel. It's getting a lot of traction. The feedback I'm getting is that people understand me in any part of the world. And the reason being is that I don't really have an accent, and I'll come to that later. But also, the way I talk is with my hands. But that's because I've always had to talk with my hands. And so a lot of people, you know this type of thing when you're in this part of the world, where I am, which is Dubai, but I do business in Africa, South America, Asia. You're dealing with people that English, not their first language, but the fact that you can use your hands is actually a bit of a superpower.
- [07:43]
B
Do you know. Do you still know sign language?
- [07:45]
A
I know the Alphabet, but I think a misconception that a lot of people have is that we all know sign language. Like, I'm coder. You know, there's that movie that came out. I mean, it glamorizes a little bit life in the deaf household. But we don't actually. I don't know sign language. And you don't actually need to know sign language. You just need to be able to express yourself clearly and you'll be fine. I did make one mistake when I lived in France. It was my first time living overseas, and I saw a French deaf family. So I thought, I got this. Hey, I got this. So I started doing sign language to them in English. It was like the English way. And the guy just looked at me and was like, are you making fun of me right now? And I was like, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait. Like this. And he was like, I think you're insulting me. You're insulting me, aren't you? I was like, no, no, wait, I didn't mean to do this. So I realized that not all sign languages work in different countries. For example, in the United States, the American Sign Language uses one hand, whereas British uses two. So, you know, these are some of the things that I have learned.
- [08:48]
B
Are your parents still alive?
- [08:51]
A
My father passed away some years ago. My mother is still having a great time in the uk and she's a great personality. Like, I brought her to my office annual party, and they all love my mom. Like, she's. She's a wonderful woman.
- [09:06]
B
Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say. I mean, were you close with your family? Me? Yeah.
- [09:11]
A
Well, we, we had to stick together. I mean it's. Life is very different when you're like that, so you have to stick together. But I think the one thing that I really took away from my parents is that of resilience and stoicism. We life, you know, when you can't use the phone and you can't. Your English is not great in terms of the way that you write or read. This means that you get to miss out on a lot of jobs. So we were not getting the best paid salaries for my parents, which made us more resilient and more careful with money, I would say. And this has really also helped in my business life a lot of entrepreneurs, as you know, being an entrepreneur yourself, we've got to take risks. Every day we have to take a risk. The money that we make is not a salary, it's income which we have to spend as best we can. Being raised by a low income household with parents that I had to really grow up fast to help them made me understand the value of money, which I think is a big mistake with the current young generation you're facing right now. And I'm sure you probably agree these, the young generation, it's easy come, easy go. And our generation, I would say we didn't really spend it that quickly. We knew how to grow it.
- [10:31]
B
Yes, Jeremy, I mean, I think you've turned probably something that might and was a challenge into probably one of your superpowers though I think the non conformity and like you said, the resiliency in business has, you know, probably enabled you to become a lot of what you are today. And I think, you know, you should be commended for that because that's. I just think about not being able to communicate, you know, like what you learn from that. But then I'm like, you know what? But Jeremy didn't learn all the bad habits that we conform to too.
- [11:08]
A
Yeah, you become an outsider. You become someone looking and saying, but why do we do this? I don't understand why I should do that. Just because these people do it doesn't mean everyone. I should do it. Kind of the blue ocean strategy in business, sometimes before you know it, you're entering a red ocean and then you're thinking, but why should we do this? What is the point in doing this? So you question a lot. But I think you also would agree with me that a lot of success from business comes from rejection and failure.
- [11:41]
B
Oh yeah.
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A
And, and it's how you react to that. So many of the best things ever happened to your Life came from being rejected or failing in something, but learning why you felt. Because if you just fail and don't learn from it, you continue to fail. Or you just go back and say, you know what? I'm never going to take the risk again. But you've got to take the risk again.
- [11:59]
B
Hey, there's a quote. Exactly. You got to get back in that boat and row, baby. You know, I guess the only way to do it, man, I've fallen on my face more than I can count, you know, but damn, I'm resilient.
- [12:15]
A
That's why if you look at Millionaire Migrant, you look at our logo. Millionaire Migrant is about people who want to be millionaires or people want to migrate or people who already are millionaires and are migrating, which we'll come to in a minute. But the logo that we came up with, the M, it's like, it's ups and downs. You know, every millionaire, every migrant has to face ups and downs. But it's just. It's part of what it is, right? It's the journey.
- [12:40]
B
So, yeah, man. But I think what got you into the mimicry? I mean, what got you into the migration thing? And I mean something. Obviously you like to travel, which you have to if you're going to do that, last time I checked. But what drew you into this industry specific.
- [12:59]
A
It was actually a confluence of factors. So the first was I obtained my French nationality by descent. So I traced my ancestry and I thought, okay, I can get a French passport. So I traced my ancestry. It was very painful exercise. It was very difficult. But I managed to get the French nationality, which is a grade A passport. It's a European passport. So even in the UK we did Brexit. Like, it was the knowing. I mean, I would like to take a credit that I knew 10 years in advance that we would leave the European Corporation. But at the same time, it became one of the reasons why all my clients do second passports. Like, they realize the value in having another nationality. Americans are the last ones to the party. But if even Americans are considering seriously and the numbers are really big, like the numbers in Portugal, the numbers in the uk, the numbers in other jurisdictions, Americans are now in the top two brackets, and America is a bastion of safety. If Americans are doing it, does that tell you us about where the world is going? And I think you can see from the last two weeks, we're in a bumpy ride right now. So we. So I got my French nationality, and then I also met my wife in South America, in Colombia. So I visited Colombia. And I met this lady and I said, right, come back to Dubai with me. It was really tough for her to get a residency status in the ua, which by the way is probably one of the easiest countries to get a residency status now. And then afterwards I wanted her to meet my mother and tell her, my mom, like, I want you to meet this lady, I'm going to marry her. And her visa to the UK got rejected. So these three things taught me about the power that not all nationalities are the same, not all of us are equal. The power of passports, the power of residency, the challenges of applying for visas, which some of us take for granted being American and British passport holders. And then I was like, you know what I think, people? I think there's a business here. I think that's where the business is. And it started off with a tiny little desk and a secondhand Jeep Wrangler, which I paid 2,000 bucks for. It was a 1998 Jeep Wrangler with a big speaker that took up the whole of the trunk. And the speaker didn't work. So it just took up a lot of space and didn't really give anything else. So, and that's, but you know, these are, this is how these business stories start. And that's how it started. I got one client and then I got three clients and then I got five. And we process now in excess of 200 families a year. We got about 60, sorry, almost 70 people across eight offices. And we look after a lot of the ultra high net worth and high net worth people everywhere from the US to Asia. We just got some passports today from a Spanish, Spanish and Chinese families. So these people are super happy. If you look at Google reviews, we've got hundreds of Google reviews of very happy customers. But I think coming back to what we said earlier, the future is changing faster than governments can react. Governments want taxpayers, people in government are politicians who probably maybe had good intentions at the beginning, but once that power gets to their head, they, well, you know, they start to think more about the ego and the person rather than the collective. And the great thing about this is that technology is liberating us. We can be anywhere in the world. In the same way that technology has helped us to have crypto on bitcoin and blockchain. Crypto is also helping us to have online payment systems. So technology is allowing us to do this. Technology is allowing us to travel better and cheaper and faster than ever before. It's allowing us to be able to do online businesses where we don't need to be physically in one country so you can run a business from another country, live in another country. And what we can do is we can leverage the fact that 190 countries in the world are competing for talent and capital. And that's what I do. I just. If you've got talent and you've got capital, you can't be wasting it sitting in a high tax jurisdiction like the US or United Kingdom. There's countries all around the world saying come here and you won't pay any taxes for 10 years. I mean, who wouldn't take up that offer?
- [17:16]
B
Yeah. Is it, It's a fascinating, I think about it, you know, the world has become. And the news now is, is quite ironic to this conversation. I mean we can be honest about that, which we'll maybe hit that specifically in a bit. But more this observation that we've got a world market now. And, and so you have a world market, you have people that think globally, but you have these lines drawn up by countries from wars and situations hundreds of years ago. And I don't want to say they're arbitrary, but as long as you're a free country and we're not at war over something stupid, there should be like free passage and all that. But it's not that way. So you have to explore these routes. I don't know. It's a fascinating thought process. And how hard is it? I mean it, you know, I'm sure you, that's why you have a corporation with eight offices or whatever you said, like, because it must be, you know, it's not the easiest thing to do but talk to me about the process of it.
- [18:31]
A
Yeah. So I think there's a, there's a book that is a really important book that anyone who's interested to know how the world is going to be because of technology and how governments are really going to struggle to be able to contain us. And that's called the Sovereign Individual. It's written by William Rees Mogg and this book talks about how over as societies have changed over the years, how governments or the state or the church or whatever it may be has tried to be able to confine people. And now obviously there'll be people who can and can't do this. So if you're manual labor or physical labor, this is going to be tough for you. But technology is coming to every part of our business. It's everywhere. It's invading the whole of society. But knowing that you can go and be in one country, you can obtain a nationality from one country. You can obtain a residency from another, you can be a tax resident in a third or incorporate a company in a third country and you can do business. It's like all these companies like Amazon and Google are doing. Starbucks for example, makes tons of money from the UK but pays almost no tax because they are able to to charge the, the franchise fees and loyalties and to a third party country which allows them to mitigate their taxes. But people are doing the same. So a lot of people are moving to tax friendly jurisdictions and running their business there. So like let's say in south, in South America, you got Paraguay, you got Panama. These are two very well known countries where you have a lot of North Americans. I'd been there and I visited them last year.
- [19:59]
B
You.
- [19:59]
A
And they're down there saying, I don't pay any taxes here. My rent is a third to two thirds, sometimes less than what I'd be paying back home. I get to live very comfortably. The cost of living is much less than it is in the United States. I mean, when you see that a carton of eggs is like a dollar an egg, right? It's like 13 bucks for 12 eggs. You go to South America. One thing I've noticed, living and being married to a Latina is like the first time she met me and we, and I started cooking and I use cooking inverted commas. She was like, I don't understand why you guys use cook food from tins. Like it's, it's a British thing. We like cook foods. Like we're not known for our food by any stretch. And she's like, we get everything from the soil, everything's fresh, avocados, mangoes, root vegetables. And so imagine you can be from United States, which by the way, if you say in the UK is pretty bad with food, no offense, but America, you guys, the food corporations, they've taken advantage. But it's good to see that, oh.
- [21:01]
B
Come on, come to South Carolina. You could get some, you know, fresh produce.
- [21:05]
A
Okay, so southern uk. All right, all right, you're fine.
- [21:08]
B
I don't know. Yeah, it's a fried chicken.
- [21:12]
A
So in the end it's just. But the good thing is that there is a day of reckoning in big food in, in the United States, which is really good to see. Yeah, but so when you get to eat fresh food, affordable cost of living, pay zero taxes, affordable rent, and run a business which up until about a week ago you could get paid in dollars, which was a very strong purchasing power. Ob obviously that's changed slightly in the last week or so. But why wouldn't you want to leave? Like I meet young guys crushing it in the crypto space or trading space and living in Vancouver or living in Toronto and you know, what is it, minus 20 degrees, paying 50% taxes, 51% taxes. What are you doing? You can run that business anywhere in the world and you don't have to be freezing your balls off either. So that's the way world is going and it's going to, it's only going to accelerate.
- [22:03]
B
Yeah. And it's interesting to think about how government said government and religion, you know, these institutions, let's just call them the, the institutions that sort of conformity. And you know, I don't like to throw the baby out with the bathwater. That's, that's my saying. Like, you know, we need some amount of laws and governing and like institutions. But you know, sometimes those institutions serve themselves better than they serve us. And I think that's the day of reckoning that you're talking about because it feels closer than it ever has.
- [22:42]
A
Yeah, I agree with you. And I think Europe is one of those places that I can talk about very intimately. I looked, for example, recently, I was looking to buy a property in France. So I thought, I have a good portfolio, I'm French. And the price of the property wasn't much. It was like, I think it was like €400,000. It was an apartment near Monaco. The amount of documentation they asked me, I was like, why do I need to do all this? Like, come on, man. Like it's, it's very straightforward. It was almost like they were trying to find a way for me not to buy. I spoke to someone afterwards and they said, oh yeah, that's just the way France is. They just see the, you being in the uae, it doesn't matter. But they're just not really interested in that business. Oh great. So you don't want anyone in sovereign oil producing nations to invest in real estate. I mean, you've been to the south of France. Isn't it mainly people from oil producing nations that buy most of the real estate down there. So it's going against their best interests. I looked at uk, I went to, I went to, I was with my family in London last summer. Every summer we kind of travel around Europe and the uk. I bring my, my entourage, my tribe with me. So I usually bring a relative, couple of relatives, my family, and we were staying in this Airbnb house and my cousin came to pick me up. He's British, he lives in the uk. We left. And apart from the fact that in the uk, this is what you have to pay. You have obviously your income tax, you have your, your, you have to pay taxes on your houses as well. So the value, property taxes you have to pay to take, you have to pay road tax. You need to pay for your drivers and vehicle license registration. You also have to pay your. To take your car into London. It's called the Ulez. So you have to take your pay to take your into London. There is a daily charge for this. And then he got a fine for coming to use that road, which should only be for residents of that road. It's like, guys, like, what's left? What you're already paying for the parking as well. Like, what is, what is, is anything free? And I think that's when he was like, you know what? I had a really nice holiday. I'm going back to Dubai. See you later.
- [24:53]
B
Yeah, no kidding. I do think, I mean, it's get, it's like everything you named, like 80% of that's in the States as well. I mean, property taxes on everything. You know, I've got a boat, boat taxes I have, you know, like everything has a tax on it. And I, I understand that you have to, you know, contribute things up, you know, like, but it's just, when does it end and how do you know what your money is being used on?
- [25:22]
A
Yeah, and you look at Dog. I really hope that Doge really does a good job. I don't know how it's going to turn out, but I think that everyone doesn't mind paying something. I think they would just like it to be a bit more transparent. As in, like, listen, just send me a bill for everything you need to do rather than I just pay. And then it's just like, oh, you just have to trust that it's been spent wisely because, you know, it won't be. And I think my biggest concern is that the more that we tax the upper class or the wealthiest class, the biggest problem we have is that those people are the ones who have the most mobility, the wealth mobility. They're able to just leave. So when they go, you can try and exit tax them and you can try and tax them on their citizenship. But once they've gone, who's left? The middle class. So now you need to tax the middle class. So they can either leave or they can stay. But what's happening is that if they're also being taxed, what kind of message are you sending to them and everybody below them? Because now you take away meritocracy. Like if you just know that the harder you work, the more taxes you're going to pay. We already have that as progressive tax rate. But if it's really that. Oh, but when I build a business, I want to sell it. You're going to tax me on my unrealized gain as well, or my realized gain, then do we just become probably the worst thing we can be, which is demotivated and unambitious and just in a. In a form of stasis where like, who's going to build anything, who's going to create anything, who's going to grow a business, who's going to take risks? That's.
- [26:49]
B
That's the sad motivation. Yeah, exactly. And I think with AI and everything else and the ability, like you said, I mean, blue collar, you know, the being the exception and you know, needing, you know, skilled trade people and things like that, but like the rest of the world, AI is. And where the job gets done doesn't really matter anymore. I mean, you know, like Covid sort of forced a lot of people into this realization, sending people home. And a lot of companies are struggling with putting that genie back in the bottle. And you know, I embrace it means the car company I keep, we run hybrid and I'm leaner than we've ever been while also, you know, working from wherever. I think a lot of people are coming to this realization that place and company aren't necessarily tied together.
- [27:49]
A
Exactly, exactly, exactly. As you said. Now, obviously we're going to miss home. You miss. You might miss the United States, but you can move to another state. You've got Puerto Rico, you've got Florida, for example. I miss home sometimes. I'm not all about the money, but I just had things that motor pulled me away to be in the Middle east, for example. I lived in Portugal for some time as well, and I've lived in other parts of the world. I lived in Africa and Asia. But the pool was stronger than the to. To leave the UK was stronger than the reason to stay in the uk. It wasn't purely financially driven. I mean, I would never have met my wife in South America. My wife would be English. If I stayed in the uk, My life would be like my friends back home. But I happen to have now a life that is a little bit more exotic, a little bit colorful because I have a Latin wife. I have a lot of. I have a circle of business contacts which is really the envy of private banks. I mean, actually I've had private bankers come to Me and just say, like, you're sitting on something quite special here. None of this would have happened if I was in the uk, so my real estate investments, I would never. It would have been almost impossible to get the returns I've had staying in the UK, even if I would be really good in the UK and focus on the UK. I've invested in multiple countries. I invested in 11 different countries. Now I'm just closing on a penthouse in central Medellin in Colombia, which will be done this sometime this month. I've had properties in.
- [29:19]
B
Oh, where are we going? Is that for pleasure?
- [29:23]
A
I need to get a bigger apartment. You know, a number of people are like, yeah, I'm coming, I'm coming.
- [29:27]
B
Yeah, I'm here, Jeremy. Yeah. I mean, you know, like, don't worry.
- [29:32]
A
We'Re having a lot of fun. You know, I need to run it by my boss first. She's not too hot on that idea, but, yeah. So, I mean, all of this, there's just so much out there in the world. There's investment plays, there's opportunities, there's businesses, there's tax plays. There's so much out there, there. And I think that this is just going to happen. I mean, I don't even need to advertise it. People are young people growing up in the US or Canada or high tax jurisdictions just seeing no opportunities for them, no scope for growth. The only thing they do is if they do take a risk and they do work seven days a week, 365 years, days a year is a great big tax bill and future tax bills to come. And I think because I've been working in the second passport business for so long, I think that there is a genuine concern that once the government starts to. They've run out of all the taxes, then come up with income tax and capital gains tax and property taxes, annual property taxes that keep going like they have in California. Once they start to look at this, and then afterwards they will do you. They'll wipe out the tax exemptions and then afterwards when they will introduce taxes on those people who are leaving and try to implement exit taxes, which they did in Norway, for example, not too long ago and now they're talking about it in France, once they've done all the exit taxes, which by the way also stops people coming to your country because it's going to scare people away. What's the only tax that you have left? As of today, there's only two countries that tax their citizens and that's the United States. Everybody knows about and you have Eritrea, but Eritrea doesn't have the ability to enforce it. The United States does, which is why everyone has to. Every American has to sign a FACA form when they, they open an overseas bank account. But what happens when the rest of the Europe starts to say, well, you know, we don't really have any more money, so let's tax for you guys, because use our embassies, use our consulates, you've got a pretty strong passport. That's got to be worth some money. Then you need to pay every year for that. I mean, we're not far away from that day coming, right? I mean, it's coming. That's why people need to have a second nationality. That's why they need to take advantage of.
- [31:40]
B
So, all right, let's get practical, Jeremy, as we kind of finish out the episode. I am an affluent person that's running a business in the United States. How do I get nationality? And am I just going to open up my second office in Paraguay and get nationality there? Talk to me through like a use case for someone to do it and how to do it.
- [32:08]
A
Okay, so my citizenship and residency company is Savoring Partners has been doing this for 15 years. We've been helping hundreds of families. We've actually helped 2, 100 families obtain a second nationality, sometimes a third nationality. And so what happens is that business takes care of it. Millionaire Migrant is my personal channel where people can get a consultation call with me, they can speak to me directly, which you don't really. Nobody really gets that. But it also allows us to provide a guidance on tax and residency as well as citizenship by descent. So maybe we see that. Ryan, your surname looks a bit British. I think you could have a good shot at trying to get some. Becoming a fellow Brit like myself could be Irish, actually. You could do that Alford. So you've got those options. But if you wanted to obtain a second nationality, there's no restrictions. Being an American national, you can have any other passport you have going to get it through investments. You can do it by descent. By descent, as I mentioned, by tracing ancestry, you can do it by residency. You just live in a country for a certain period of time and afterwards there'll probably be a language test and you could get that passport. There's countries like, well, pretty most countries in Europe, after five years you'll be able to apply for the nationality, provided you speak the language. But let's say you wanted to do by investment. You've got the five Caribbean jurisdictions which are St. Kitten, Nevis, antigua, and Barbuda, St. Lucia, Commonwealth of Dominica and Grenada, all those countries there within a period of about six to. Unfortunately, some are taking a bit longer, but let's say six months, you'll be able to stay in a second nationality. Now, that won't relieve you of your fiscal contribution to the United States unless you were to renounce. Renunciation can be done. It's lengthy, it's lots of paperwork around your financials, but it can be done and people do do it. And if you look at the data, renunciations have been going up year on year considerably for American nationals. But. But in order to commence the annunciation, you need to have a primary nationality. You can't just give up your one and only passport. You need to have a passport already. So you can do that if you want to do that, but you don't have to. But if you can keep both passports and just keep one in your back pocket for emergencies, that's also an option. In terms of moving to Paraguay or any other country that has a zero tax or close to zero tax, territorial tax, you just have to move there. My team will take care of everything. You move there. And you just have to be able to make sure that you can show enough ties to that country and less ties to the country where you're actually coming from. So, you know, you want to do the 183 days. You don't want to be spending more time in the US that clearly will show that you have ties to the United States. But if you can show more ties to that second country and less ties to the United States, you will be able to show that you're a fiscal resident in, in Paraguay. For the purpose of this conversation, invest in a company there, invest in a property there, you know, have a very merry life down in Paraguay. I think Paraguay is also interesting because what I've noticed is that a lot of people now are getting very concerned about where to be when things get really rocky. Right now we're talking about economic war with China. If things deteriorate. We know what type of war comes after the economic war. And I've had many conversations with many of my ultra high net worth clients and they're asking me, Jeremy, I've got this password. I'm very happy with this password. I have multiple investments around the world. I have bank accounts, I have gold, I have crypto. But where do I go when things get really bad? The simple answer is South America. If you really want to be watching from the sidelines and say, I've got No dog in this fight. It was never even my idea because, let's be honest, none of us really have any agency over what our governments decide. And that's why people obtain second nationalities, because no one really feels that they have any power on their primary nationality. You want to go to South America. Of all the countries in South America, there are two that have been historically and politically the most stable. Where you want to be when things go south is Panama and Paraguay. Panama, we know that the US has got its back, but it's also the only country that's never had any civil unrest. Paraguay, on the other hand, is a tiny nation which surrounded by other countries just having major problems with their currency and their politics, such as Brazil, Argentina and so on. Paraguay is essentially run by an oligopoly of six main families who are pro business. They don't want to rock the boat. They don't go left, they don't go right, they don't go socialist, they don't go extreme. They're just like, hey, we just want to run everything cool. We want business to come in. We don't want to rock the boat. It's a small country and if you look as well, the countries that are really outperforming the most generally are the smaller countries, the micronations. They are agile, dynamic, make quick decisions, much like a business. You know, like running a smaller business. Let's be honest, it's pretty, it's much easier than running a bigger business. But they're also entirely self sufficient. They have amazing hydroelectric systems and dams down there so you can live off the land longer than most countries on the planet. You've got arable farming so you can live off the land. You go down there, you have the stakes. The steaks are cheaper than Brazil, cheaper than Argentina, and tastes just as good. And in my case actually better flight access is the only thing holding it back. But I see that as the best thing to do because you don't want to be in a place that's got amazing flight access. That means you already missed the boat. That means every other investor has already been down there. So it's a place that I see is enormous potential and you can buy a piece of land for like $30,000 and prices have been going up 10% every year. And I don't know many other places that will continue on that kind of track without using leverage, of course.
- [37:59]
B
It's a fascinating discussion, Jeremy. I mean, I go back to sort of the word from the book you mentioned, the sovereignty of yourself. It's Both a slippery slope, but also one that I think resonates with a lot of people. And thinking about where your true freedom lies in place, time, business and having options, that's really what I'm hearing.
- [38:32]
A
Diversification. Diversification.
- [38:34]
B
Diversification is key. Jeremy, you mentioned the website, but let's give everybody the links where everybody can learn more, keep up with everything you're doing.
- [38:41]
A
Sure. So Savory and Partners. S A V r y&partners.com is a government registered agent for second passports. We're accredited by six governments for multiple years. But Millionaire Migrant is my own personal channel where people can reach out and learn about other things other than citizenship and residency. We'll talk about tax return, about citizenship by descent. We'll talk about investing in real estate and making outsized returns. Uae, Paraguay, Georgia, I was there recently. That place has got amazing real estate potential down there as well. We also talk about basically gold. I have access through my clients. You know, I have a lot of high net worth clients. I've got, I've got traders that double my money every four months. I've got, I've got private banks that can, can, you know, give you access to get you in at a lower rate than the average private bank, for example, because we bring them volume of clients. So I have a bird's eye view of a lot of things that a small party of people would have access to. And so what I do is I share about the intel I'm getting from my top crypto guys or my top traders or from the governments in terms of citizenship programs, passport programs, tax residency. But I also travel to a lot of these countries myself so people can see me on the ground having a look, seeing what's out there, what are the opportunities. People need to be diversified. You can't be all in on stocks because you saw what happened in the route a few months ago. You can't be all in gold because yes, you've done really well if you bought a year ago. But the thing is, it wasn't making any yield for you either. You've got to have a bit of everything. You've got to have a bit of crypto stocks, gold, bonds, real estate. And you also need a second passport because all of these things, if you're only got one passport, they're tied to one nationality. That's not diversification.
- [40:26]
B
I love it, Jeremy. And maybe you can send me some crypto tips. That's been a little bit of a wave too. You know, like, I think this is.
- [40:35]
A
The main thing that people forget about Crypto. When you ask anyone why do you do crypto, what do they say? Like, so Ryan, why, why do you like crypto?
- [40:43]
B
I like diversification and I don't know, it feels like you have more control. I believe in the currents in the future of digital currency. So, I mean, there's a couple things.
- [40:56]
A
For me, those are the right answers. A lot of other people, when you ask them those questions, the answers they give is that it's cooler than gold. But things that are cool attract more people, which means there's more opportunities where things aren't buying things because they're cool. The second thing is people like crypto because it outperforms, but things that outperform could also significantly go down. And again, that's what people don't understand. But yeah, exactly.
- [41:22]
B
Take the risk. I'm okay with the risk. You know, like I'm a risk taker, so I get it.
- [41:26]
A
Well, I, I have a, I have a trader, he's a day trader and he is, he's somebody that most you'll never find. It's a blessing. I even meet a guy like this and he's become a friend of mine and he can generate returns for me that, that make people just stare at my screen and say, how is he doing this? But he is also taking massive leverage. He believes strongly in something. He takes big leverage. It's not for everyone, but you make it 5% of your portfolio and you don't mind about everything else being 5, 10% a year. As long as he's doing that funky stuff with the 5%, you say you okay? Don't touch anything flammable.
- [42:04]
B
I love it, man. I love it. I really appreciate you coming on Jeremy. We'll have links to all of the information. Thank you for coming on.
- [42:12]
A
Thanks very much. It's been a pleasure, Ryan.
- [42:13]
B
Hey guys, you're going to find us. Ryanisright.com we're always right, baby. You know that. That's kind of got friends like Jeremy coming on telling you all the knowledge, all the tips, how to diversify and get ahead. Go to go check out Jeremy's stuff. Learn. I mean, look, he's giving away a lot of free education. He just did. He gave a master class in diversification other countries and look, the guy came up with adversity and made hey some hay as we say in the US he's doing well and we hope you're doing well. We thank you for making us number one. We'll see you next time. Right about now. This has been right about now with Ryan Alford a Radcast network production. Visit ryanisright.com for full audio and video versions of the show, or to inquire about sponsorship opportunities. Thanks for listening.