Interviewer (5:23)

How enlightening was it? I can only imagine, like you said, you felt like you lived. Not necessarily a lie, but you never felt comfortable being transparent and being maybe vulnerable, if I can use that word.

Sean Whalen (5:36)

Sure.

Interviewer (5:36)

How enlightening was that moment when, holy shit, I'm being myself and I'm garnering the attention. Not that maybe you were seeking before when you were copying everyone else, but just the irony in that had to be just fucking amazing. It was.

Sean Whalen (5:53)

And what's interesting is we're all programmed to lie, okay? I don't care who's watching this. Black, white, gay, straight, rich, poor. All of us were programmed the exact same way. And when you really stop and think about it, like, we've been indoctrinated since we were children to do as we're told, to speak words that will be pleasing to everyone, don't wrestle anybody's feathers. And that's literally what we do. We're told, tell the truth, tell the truth, tell the truth. But the ramifications for telling the truth are dark. They're bad. So we just lie. And as you get older, you become a man. It's like, we don't talk about emotions. We don't talk about where we're really at. You just man the fuck up, you know, put on your big boy pants and get after it. And the truth of the matter is that, you know, more men killed themselves in 2018 than during the Great Depression. Why? It's not because there's a lack of money or lack of opportunity or lack of chicks or, you know, ass running around. It's because dudes are, like, trapped in this box like I was 10 years ago. I'm like, dude, I I'm not happy with where I'm at, but I don't know how to talk about it. And my boys are like, hey, man, how you doing? I'm like, I'm good. Well, then I'll say, oh, shit. Bob killed himself. We didn't even know. Bob was sad. Bob looks like he's got ideal life. Well, no one thinks that they're lying. The reality is, if you're not speaking the truth, then what is it? And if you're not sharing what's really inside of you, how you really feel, what's really going on, it's not an issue of political correctness or I don't want to piss anybody off. It's like, what are you doing? Are you speaking your truth? Yes or no? I noticed two things that happened. Number one, people resonated with my message. Millions of people resonated with it. And the second thing that I saw after I shared this was that I felt better. It was almost like, okay, got that.

Interviewer (7:34)

Out of the way.

Sean Whalen (7:35)

You know what I mean? And so when I talk to entrepreneurs and business owners and people, I'm like, dude, you're a better father when you feel better. You're a better mother when you feel better. You're a better everything when you feel better. Lying doesn't feel good. Lying is scary. It's. Do they know? Do they know? Do they know where you just fucking tell the truth and you got nothing to worry about.

Interviewer (7:54)

Something has shaped Shawn Whalen at some point in life. Well, before you got lost or you got found or anything like that, I feel like there has to be these opinions and these beliefs that kind of formed all of this. Something shaped that.

Sean Whalen (8:10)

I was actually a really quiet kid. I was really reserved. I was a chubby little kid. And I think for me, when looking back at it, when I went on a Mormon mission, I went on a two year Mormon mission. That was where I really started to kind of find my voice. I mean, you're out basically selling God. You're going door to door pitching God to people. And it was something I was really passionate about. It was something that, like, I didn't grow up in the Mormon Church. I grew up Catholic. And so I was kind of a recent convert to the church. And I just started realizing that people love to connect, people love to talk. And I was really good at it. I was good at just talking to people. And I know that sounds really weird, but, like, there really is an art form to communication. There's an art form of being able to not just tile so, hey, how's your water? Like, why do you like that water? Okay, great, you know, whatever. But, like, really fucking listening to people and hearing them and knowing what's driving them, and something that I've always been fascinated about and with is what's behind it. Everybody knows they're being sold something, so we've already got that out of the way. But what are you trying to tell me? What are you trying to communicate with me? If the answer is a simple no, then just fucking say no, right? But I love being able to look at complex things, and I break it down in my brain to just like coloring book kind of conversations, like, yeah, this is what this really is. And it's just more. To me, it's more fun that way.

Interviewer (9:26)

You know, we're an digital agency here, and we work a lot of brands and, you know, they come to us and they have great products, but they have no story, right? And I will take a company that has a purpose and a story all day because that's. It's organic. You know, again, it just becomes about blocking and tackling. It's real hard to figure out the Hail Mary, you know, the message, what have been some of those mechanics of, you know, because I've heard you talk about it. You know, you started the company, you were selling T shirts, you had a message, you had a plan, but something poured gas on the fire for the tactics and the. In the. And some of the ways with which you've seen growth. Can you talk about some of that?

Sean Whalen (10:04)

I found for me that I embodied Lions, not sheep. It literally was for me, you know what I mean? Like, when I wrote my book, which is sold over half a million copies completely organically. I mean, I wrote a book that I wanted to read. And so for me, lions Not Sheep, it. Everybody's been telling me, dude, you're in the perfect storm now with the whole political climate, Trump, because it's like we're all. You're one or the other, right? You're picking up the lion or you're the sheep, which is great, you know, but everybody now wants to jump on that, right? And they want to plug into that emotion. They want to plug into the political climate and whatever, whatever. And you really don't have a track record. You don't have a tribe, you don't have any of that. I didn't set out to do that. And I think that's what really makes Lions Not Sheep unique. And I think a lot of people need to wrap their head around this. And it's really difficult to do is having the consistency of delivering content and messaging for the long game. Because now we're in the perfect fucking storm. Now we're crushing because so much content has been put out there over the last couple of years, and it wasn't with the objective of selling T shirts or selling hats or selling any of that shit. I believe that the very best salespeople on planet earth are never selling anything. Like, you go to my. You go to my Instagram or my Facebook, you will never see me selling anything. Yet I'm literally able to make millions of dollars through coaching and consulting and other companies that I have.

Interviewer (11:24)

Where are we going? You know, I know you're knee deep in a lot of things. I know this has opened doors and that, you know, your coaching. How to make shit happen is the book. Everyone listening? Go check it out on Amazon. Is it Amazon or just your personal site? Amazon. Y on. But what's. Where are we headed? Where are you going?

Sean Whalen (11:43)

Well, right now we're trying to put the wheels back on the. On the bus. We. We got our asses kicked in production. We grew so fast. I turned everything on back in March. And what I mean by that is I hired a team to come in. We started running ads. I'd never run an ad before. I'd never put ads out there. And we went from that to, you know, we were doing two to $3,000 a month of just apparel sales. Oh, we did $463,000 last month of apparel sales in basically 90 days. And it fucked some things up. And I learned some very valuable, expensive lessons on production and being able to keep up. You know, I really do. I'm passionate about this man. I'm passionate about the ability of, especially with men to really fucking step into who they are. And not in some hippie dippy way, but, like, I'm 41 years old and there's a lot of 41 year olds that are like, okay, I got the house and the car and the kids and the thing. Like, why do I fucking hate my life? Why am I not doing anything I want to do? I mean, my wife and I, we eat at the same place. We fucking vacation at Disneyland once a year. Like, what am I doing with my life? And mine's not sheep. And me specifically is, you know, I'm coaching a lot. I've got multiple facets to the business, but I really want to show people that it's possible. You know what I mean? Like, the building a really badass life is possible. It's not Whimsical. It's not because I got a silver spoon. In fact, it's anything but with me. I've worked my ass off for this, and I want to be able to show people and show kids and teenagers, like, we got one shot at this reality. We have one shot at this life. Like, go build the shit you want to build. That's my end game, is I want to leverage what I've got now through social media and the following and connections or whatever. But I want somebody to be able to see this hat, see this message, see this T shirt, resonate with it, and have the same feeling of empowerment and power that I do.

Interviewer (13:34)

I don't want to ask you, what do you want? You've said it, I've interpreted where you see your legacy. But I do want to kind of ask it because, like, what do you. You know, when they go, Shaun Whalen In 50 years, you know, what. What.

Sean Whalen (13:48)

What do you want people to think my legacy is? My kids? It's not wealth. It's not assets that can be distributed. It's not, you know, 401ks and IRAs, and kids are splitting. You know, my kids are splitting up. If I play this game right, I've empowered my children to become their own entrepreneurial, independent creatures. My legacy, if you will, is that is if I can help these three kids break the chains that I came from and having dysfunction and having, you know, a divorce at a young age and having a dad that was never around. You know, if I can be that man to where I'm laying on my deathbed knowing I don't give a fuck about the money, but my kids know that. They literally live the fullest life with me. That's my game. But I want to be able to sit back and not have any fucking regrets. Know that I played the game. I was all in. I was all in every single day. Like, with my. With my lover, with my kids, with my business, with my message. Like, you can go back and watch thousands of videos, and you know that whether you like me or not, whether you agree politically with me or not, you know that I'm spitting my truth. And you know that it's coming from my soul. I feel like I'm on a pretty good track for that. Cause that's how I feel. Literally sitting here, I think you're living it.

Interviewer (15:04)

And as someone that doesn't agree with every single principle of yours, I respect the hell out of you and wanted you on the podcast because I see that is as clear as day.

Sean Whalen (15:15)

Yeah, well, There's. We're smart, you know, you and I, everybody, we all think we're smart, right? We should. You shouldn't think you're dumb. But like, if you're smart. I love to study and I love to read. And if you think about all of these great men that have come before us, the Carnegie's, the Rockefellers, the Steve Jobs, the Steve Coveys, these literal, like, industry creators and they just have changed the face of the earth. They all say the same thing at the end of their book. All of them, without question. They all literally say at the end of their books, their biographies, like, if I could go back and do it all over again, I would have spent more time doing the things that I wanted to do. I would have spent more time with my family. And I consider myself a pretty smart fella. So if Carnegie, Rockefeller, Steve Jobs is saying, if I could go back and trade places with Sean at 41 and I'd spend more time playing and doing the things that I want to do, then I get what Instagram's trying to tell me. I get that I'm supposed to be balling and Lambos and jets and the whole thing, but at the end of the day, I'm enjoying my life. I'm living the life and I'm taking the counsel from those guys, you know, and it seems to be working. It works really, really well for me. And I've literally never been this happy before, man. I got a great business, I got a phenomenal family. Like, I literally wake up every day, I'm like, I'm fucking doing it.

Interviewer (16:36)

I love it, brother. I really appreciate your time, Sean. Been really enlightening and love what you're doing. So if you're looking, follow Sean Whalen on all the social media channels. You just Google Sean Whalen. W H A L E N. You'll find him. Seanwayland.com, lionsnot sheep.com Go find him, man.

Sean Whalen (16:55)

And not hard to find all over.

Interviewer (16:57)

Find your truth as well, Sean. Really appreciate it.

Narrator (17:00)

Hey, guys, you know where to find us. Ryanisright.com you'll find highlight clips. You'll find all of my social links at. Ryan Alford. Got that blue check before you could buy it, baby. We'll see you next time.

Ryan Alford (17:10)

Right about now, this has been Right about now with Ryan Alford, a Radcast network production. Visit ryanisright.com for full audio and video versions of the show or to inquire about sponsorship opportunities. Thanks for listening.

Interviewer (17:27)

Sam.