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Right About Now - Legendary Business Advice
The Future of Sports Betting Marketing: AI, Brand Experience & Celebrity Ads | Casey Hurbis
00:23:43
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- [00:00]
Ryan Alford
On today's episode of right About Now, I talked to CMO Casey Herbus. He is the chief marketing officer of BetMGM. Yes, that MGM. We break down all the things that change in marketing, digital branding the last 20 years and exactly what's working today. Kasey talks about their new campaign, Make It Legendary with Jon Hamm. Yeah, that Jon Hamm. It's a really cool and insightful episode. I enjoyed it. You guys know me. I'm the marketing geek you're gonna enjoy too. Learn what worked today. Learn how a big CMO thinks, operates and act in 2025. Right here, right now.
- [00:35]
Casey Herbus
ChatGPT AI in the form that we know it's only been around for two and a half, three years. The pace, the speed of which this business is changing is the fastest I've ever seen it. And so 30 years ago, 15 or today, you and I were in it. We live it and it's just the fastest I've ever seen it and so much of it is data led.
- [00:52]
Podcast Announcer
This is Right about now with Ryan Alford, a Radcast Network production. We are the number one business show on the planet with over 1 million downloads a taking the BS out of business for over 6 years in over 400 episodes. You ready to start snapping necks and cashing checks? Well, it starts right about now.
- [01:15]
Ryan Alford
What's up, guys? Welcome to right about now. We're always talking about what's right now again. What's more right now than the guy I've got on today? I'm just telling you, look, he's the Hughes who cmo. You know what that is? That's chief marketing badass officer. That's his name. It is Casey Herbus. He is the CMO at bet. Mgm. What's up, Casey?
- [01:36]
Casey Herbus
Right. I'm going to take that title and change my SIG right now. I love it.
- [01:41]
Ryan Alford
Cmbo.
- [01:44]
Casey Herbus
Yeah.
- [01:46]
Ryan Alford
Hey, man, I love what you're doing. I got to know you behind the scenes even though I knew I knew you and respect what you've been doing in the marketing business and leading teams. And now, hey, BetMGM. I might place a wager or two. Casey, I'd like to place some wagers.
- [02:01]
Casey Herbus
Yeah, what do you, what do you like placing wagers on?
- [02:04]
Ryan Alford
Football. Football?
- [02:05]
Casey Herbus
NFL College.
- [02:06]
Ryan Alford
Yeah, mainly college. There you go. I keep it light, you know, in my 20s, you know, probably more than I should have now it's. I never gamble what I can't afford to lose.
- [02:15]
Casey Herbus
As long as you're being responsible, that's what matters.
- [02:17]
Ryan Alford
Exactly. Talk to me. What's going on with BetMGM.
- [02:21]
Casey Herbus
BetMGYM. So, Ryan, I joined BetMGM in December. It's been eight months. It's been fast and furious. Prior to that, I was proud to be a CMO at Rocket Mortgage, the country's largest retail mortgage lender. Prior to that, did 25 years in automotive and had the opportunity to join the BETMGM team and family in December. And it's been wild. I mean, we're now what, two weeks removed from NFL kickoff, which that was my first preparation for an NFL season. And it was like getting ready for super bowl. It was 100 hour weeks getting a new brand campaign going, which we'll talk about, I'm sure with Jon Hamm, and then gathering everybody at the office on Thursday night for the season kickoff game where we anxiously awaited watching the technology and seeing how our players were reacting to the marketplace. And then our brand campaign come to life in the second quarter. And it felt it was like a little super bowl for me, you know, to finally see eight months of hard work come to fruition with launching our new brand campaign. It's been awesome.
- [03:12]
Ryan Alford
That's awesome, man. And congratulations on the campaign. I know it's been really successful. It looked great. And it's interesting. It brings me back in my days I spent in Manhattan and on big brands. I am a little jealous of some of the reliving some of those days, vicariously hearing you talk and thinking back. Some of my quiet existence here in South Carolina also is not so terrible. But I do miss some of the energy that just comes with campaigns that have the attention of so many. Talk to me. You've worked at such large brands, large campaigns. Talk about that experience.
- [03:43]
Casey Herbus
It's sometimes hard to explain. It's one of those like if you know, you know and you've done it. Ryan, where is when you sit down and you finally see it come to life, say it's a 30 second spot and then people move on with their life. And I always say like, you have no idea what it took to bring that to life. The months, the a hundred hour weeks, sleepless nights in the world we live in, even though we live in a world that's so data rich, it's still marketing and advertising, particularly in the creative world, is still very subjective. And right when you get that ball to the two yard line, then somebody says, well, I don't like this. And it's managing. And you've worked on big brands, as have I. And I always say there's been points in my career where I have 17,000 creative experts at a company I work at here. I've got about 1500 creative experts. But sometimes the right too. You know, I'll take feedback from anywhere. I always try to remind myself, Ryan, on those sleepless nights or those moments of mass tension is my calming forces. I tell myself, dude, if this was easy, everybody would do it. Let's not take the path, path of least resistance. Let's push. Let's be different. Let's, you know, so when, when a piece of work, whatever that might be, comes to life, you step back and you feel. You feel proud to have it on your reel or share it with your friends. It's a great feeling.
- [04:51]
Ryan Alford
Yeah. Hey, Casey, I hardly want to be on your team. You already, I can already tell you're a good leader because I can see you rallying the troops around that because again, there's so much work that goes into these things. Kasey, talk to me. You and I have both been around the block. You've done things at the highest level. Doing them every day now with brands like BetMGM and just where that whole industry is. We'll get to that in a second. But talk me about what world's changed a lot the last 15 years in marketing, I've been dying to have someone at your level on because I know, like at the ground floor, small, medium business owners or startups, even if they're famous founders, I kind of know where they're at. But big, large brands and just your perspective on this democratization of content and social media and like, at the highest level that you're at, what's your perspective on this whole marketing landscape the last 10 to 15 years?
- [05:40]
Casey Herbus
I don't want to date myself, but I'll double down on you and go 30 years ago. I mean, when I started in this business, at the time it felt complicated, but as I said, you're in 2025. It was as simple as it could be. Just from a media standpoint, it was print, radio and tv. I came from a world where you routed silver prints and I didn't even have a fax machine to work with. I have no idea how meetings were held. I have no idea. To this day, I don't know how communication actually traveled. But to your point, there are moments in time for those of us that have been around for a while, you look back and you laugh. I can distinct remember in like 1999, sitting, I was in the automotive world and sitting with car dealers and talking about the impact that the Internet might have on the Automotive purchase cycle. And at the time everyone's like, whatever, Internet fine for music, travel, books. Don't worry, people will always want to go to a dealership. They'll visit five or six dealerships or shop five or six brands. They'll sit with a salesperson, they'll sit with an F and I manager. They'll always want the dealer experience. Don't worry about the Internet. You look back on that and you laugh and you think about like 2012 when the whole like PC versus mobile usage and everyone was tracking and then the iPhone came out. I mean, those are pivotal moments that you look back and laugh. All right, is that mobile optimizer? Why would we do anything mobile first? And I think right now. So those are moments like 99, 12 and then really starting in 2022, 23, where sometimes you have to step back and go, geez, chatgpt. AI in the form that we know it's only been around for two and a half, three years. The pace, the speed of which this business is changing is the fastest I've ever seen it. And so 30 years ago, 15, or you and I, we're in it, we live it. And it's just the fastest I've ever seen it. And so much of it is data led 100%.
- [07:21]
Ryan Alford
And you did create some flashbacks for me talking about newspaper and print right here.
- [07:28]
Casey Herbus
Just sweat it. Like, we better get the right hand read page or my client's going to be mad. And I'd run out to the end of my driveway and pick up the Sunday paper, just praying that by me bribing the sales guy at the newspaper, we got the right hand page read.
- [07:43]
Ryan Alford
Oh my God, I hadn't heard that term in a long time. Versioning ads was like one of my first tasks in my ad agency. Like 400 newspapers advertising them out when you didn't have software that could do it. Just the micro differences in sizes though, that could throw headlines. Oh my God.
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Casey Herbus
I mean, I used to roll up ad slicks and then literally type out the lease payment and the disclaimer and then just hope that they pub said it.
- [08:06]
Ryan Alford
Okay, I know you bring up a great point. The speed with which things are changing. I mean, how does a company like BetMGM and you as a leader, as a marketing leader think about the AI revolution? Obviously, I'm sure you guys are using it as everyone's using it. How does a CMO in today's world think about AI?
- [08:25]
Casey Herbus
We could have a whole discussion on how AI is utilized with technology and player experience. So on and so forth, because everyone wants that insatiable at the fingertips. Think about the world of sports. It didn't feel like that long ago. It was funny. I was in a sports book yesterday and I rolled by the sports book and I looked up at the lines. It used to be, you know, you used to place a bet and then you'd wait till the game was over and then you'd either cash your ticket or crumple it up and throw it on the floor. Now the speed and the opportunities and markets that we open up are endless. And from a marketing standpoint, AI certainly, yes, anyone you talk to is going to be leaning into it. The way I look at AI is a couple different ways. One is how can the use of AI and data, as we think about segmentation and personalization, we are all living in a world of one to one personalization or custom content or being served meaningful messages that are relevant to me. Remember the old movie, Tom Cruise, Minority Report, Minority Report, how freaky that was. Like, we're like, wait a minute. And you know, lo and behold, here we are 20 years later. So AI for that, but also scalability. To your point, how do I now take that newspaper ad and do 400 versions? Now how can I take that 6, 15, 30 second spot and that Ryan lives in South Carolina? I'll say you're in North Carolina because that's a regulated state. Ryan's in North Carolina while he's watching the Carolina Panthers. We know he loves, loves soccer, Premier League or whatever it might be. And so how do we know that if we know Ryan, he's a player of ours, but we know he while he watches football, he's a big conveyor of taking on content or placing wagers in soccer. So how do we serve him a soccer ad because that's relevant to you. How do you use AI to do that? It's an arms race, obviously, as we think about the platforms and tech companies that are making that available. And that's what I find really exciting is going from channel optimization to like segment and audience targeting and personalization.
- [10:11]
Ryan Alford
Smart. And that's what it's about. I always used to say, and I picked this up, I think from an old creative director, so you'll get a kick out of this. But you know, everybody's favorite radio station is wiifm. What's in it for me, baby? And that's my personalization. If you're not being relevant, you're not being listened to. It's all about attention. That's why you got to make it legendary.
- [10:31]
Casey Herbus
That's exactly right.
- [10:33]
Ryan Alford
Talk to me. Campaigns going on. We got Jon Hamm, you told me Madman. John Hammer.
- [10:38]
Casey Herbus
Come on, Madman. Jon Hamm with his new show on Apple which is doing fantastic. He's a man of so much talent. We had a chance obviously to shoot with him recently. And when I joined the organization, Ryan in December, the first thing that was on my plate was all right, here we are, six seven year old brand in a very still young industry and the brand has done very well. Obviously Jamie Foxx, who we worked with for a number of years has served the brand so well. But it's like anything else. As time evolves, how can we continuously evolve and elevate the brand? And it was rooted in research and data and insights. And as develop the repositioning for our creative platform. We developed the core creative idea, make it legendary, then it was okay. We want to do some storytelling, connectivity and creating a brand that truly speaks to players. And knowing that BetMGM and MGM Resorts, our joint venture partner, we're at the forefront of entertainment. All right, who is there a who? That was our first question. There's a lot of brands particularly in the space that use talent. We addressed that first and then yes, we want to use it, Lou. And it wasn't like, well Casey likes Jon Hamm or CEO plays golf with so and so. And you know those conversations do happen, make no mistake. But let's let data and insights help kind of shape that, that pathway. And we started with maybe 30 talent and we did research and insights and we got focus group feedback and then, then you start to have conversations with the talent. Are they interested in the space? What do they have going on? I'm not a big fan of using talent that is on every ad. We all know who those folks are. And then as Jon Hamm kind of like started rising the top, oh my gosh, relevant today, relevant to wide area of players and demographics. And we got on the phone with him and pitched the creative and leaning in and ideating with us. And that's what I want. Yes, there's going to be a transactional relationship, make no mistake. But I want to be able to work with somebody that creatively invested, they have shared values and he's a big sports guy, right? Huge Chiefs and Blues fan and those types of partners I want to work with. And John's been fantastic.
- [12:31]
Ryan Alford
He is fantastic. And I'm going to give you a Focus group of one feedback demo here, 25 to 50 year old affluent males, I fall in that demo Nailed it. Jonah Ham, literally. And guys 20 years younger than me look up to Ham and go, oh, he's cool. I can see. Consider his word. He might be a spokesperson, but he's trustworthy and he's cool and he's relevant. And guys like me, it's more, you know, peer level, on the age level. I don't need any AI to tell me that was a home run.
- [12:56]
Casey Herbus
I'm gonna. You're gonna join me tomorrow for my CEO meeting, so I can. I'll bring you in as my focus group of one.
- [13:03]
Ryan Alford
You can call me Make It Legendary. Whether intentional or not, here's how I got it. You happen to get an ad guy here on the show. It's a market show. I like it. But whether intended or not, the way it hit me was it could work both ways. The brand enables you to make it legendary. And also the brand experience itself is legendary because of the crossover of entertainment, gambling, in person, mobile, all of those things. Am I in the territory of the thought process? That's the way it hit me.
- [13:31]
Casey Herbus
Well, Ryan, you're an ad guy. It was like you were sitting in the strategy meeting. You're exactly right. Make it legendary. And that creative, you know, the creative, core creative idea. When you make that statement, you also better back it up, right? Yeah. It's like anything else. It's like me telling kids, I look cool. I'm done. And so when you talk about Make It Legendary, one is we think about the brand, the player experience, the ecosystem that is part of BetMGM with MGM, as I mentioned, we know and are confident because we heard from our players, the ability. We're brick and mortar, obviously. We have nine properties in Vegas, you know, on the Strip, 1120 total around the country. And over 40% of our players visit Vegas every year. They love the idea of the connectivity from BetMGM to MGM and the ecosystem it provides.
- [14:15]
Ryan Alford
And.
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Casey Herbus
And let's be honest, it's a very noisy space. I live here in Michigan. There's upwards of 60 to 70 operators. Very noisy. In a marketplace, how do you break out? And we know that, yes, there's going to be acquisition, but this is kind of like credit cards. I'm a place of bet today, but I don't use betmgym. I can't. If I were to place a bet today on my Tigers, I'm not going to check six apps. I use one app because I love their loyalty program. It makes me feel good. Kind of like credit cards, right? I have five credit cards. I use one or two Airline hotel. We really feel like this is a big differentiator for us is certainly in making that promise from a player experience experience, but also from a loyalty and rewards. Our players have the opportunity to take advantage of the MGM ecosystem.
- [14:53]
Ryan Alford
Yeah, you used the word. You took it right out of my mouth. I was going to say you have the ecosystem so you're leveraging it. You know, some of these other players in the space don't have that ecosystem.
- [15:02]
Casey Herbus
They don't have land based, the land based casinos or some of that back. And that's people. At the end of the day, I don't care if you're buying a car, you're taking out a mortgage or you're placing a sports bet or iGaming experience. People want to be taken care of and they know that, you know, the brand is trustworthy and that if I'm spending my hard earned money money that a brand is there to take care of me and provide me an experience that I might not be able to get otherwise.
- [15:24]
Ryan Alford
Yeah, it's interesting because when I had you coming on I know bet MGM is separate from mgm, but it's all part of a family of brands, so to speak. I go, okay, what does my MGM make me feel? You know, because I like, I'm a think Phil act kind of guy. I mean a little school marketing guy. Well, it made me think of boxing first, like all the great boxing matches that happen with the MGM grand and then that experience and then the luxury because you've got, I don't know, the whole Cosmo. Yeah, all that. And then I tied back to remembering the commercials of the super bowl and it feeling very kind of experiential and big. And that's what it feels like. It's a big deal. And make it legendary. Then Jon Hamm, he is legendary. He's that guy. He's like sipping on a scotch like he did on Madman. But you kind of associate him with the classy, legendary kind of dude. But he's also kind of cool. It just all ties together.
- [16:14]
Casey Herbus
It makes versatile. I mean, right, Serious. If you watch SNL like I still do now, I just watch on my phone. But when he comes on SNL like he's a guarantee. Got such a really interesting range and he appeals such a wide demographic too.
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Ryan Alford
What can we expect from the campaign?
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Casey Herbus
Greatness, legendariness. We're on air with one spot right now. We actually shot for nine days. It was a ambitious production. We literally wrapped up camera maybe three weeks before the season. Maybe one of these years I'm going to finally get my you know what in order and actually get production done. I was jealous of the beer brands where I know darn well here I am in September. They already have their super bowl spot in the can. In my previous lives when I did super bowl, we weren't turning lights on until January. But we are in the midst of post production. We actually just wrapped up post production on our second spot that's gonna start airing soon. We have six spots in the campaign and as you can imagine, Ryan, I mean it's not just about the 32nd TVC. I don't know, probably 5,000 assets after it's all said and done between digital, social, print, photography, whatever it might be. We are a post production machine right now. And then you always find some of those really interesting nuggets when you're playing and you're lifting up the hand if you will and finding some interesting takes or moments that you just continue to iterate on.
- [17:22]
Ryan Alford
I think that's what would be fun in the big brand world now. Cause you got this atom of content now, having all these assets from the top down the spot kind of being the lead, the hero. And you got hey, what are the social nuggets we could put out of there? What's the print? What's this? And that atomization process would be really fun. Having big brand budget and the nine day product, you know, all those assets to kind of work through.
- [17:41]
Casey Herbus
It's ambitious. It wasn't going back to 15 years, it was probably 10 years ago where you just go shoot your 30 second TVC and they would just throw over the assets to the digital and the social and the PR team. Now you come to one of my sets and it's like cut, turn photography, cut, turn, green screen, cut, turn, wild lines, cut, turn. Literally put them on a pedestal and just have cameras all the way around. And it was nine days. I mean that was a lot of production. But it's not like I have three days of digital, three days of social. It's nine days and trying to serve many, many masters. And it's not just taking the TVC and cutting. It's like what are the digital social first ideas? Or if my PR team wants something special three months from now that we're maybe thinking of, how do we get wildline or pieces of content ready for unforeseen circumstances or maybe what ifs.
- [18:28]
Ryan Alford
Casey, what. What's success look like from this campaign and maybe for your first year lapping both. I mean it's your campaign and your team's campaign. All that's happening was kind of all tied together with you. What's that first year success look like for you when you write it down and go this is what we're aiming for. What are we going for?
- [18:46]
Casey Herbus
One is obviously we are a company, we are a business, we are a brand is to be financially healthy. We are financially healthier than we've ever been. Reported that recently from a marketing standpoint, the amount of states that have opened have slowed down the last four or five years. States. You know right now, as I mentioned, we're in 29 states plus Ontario. Last year we had a state open. This year in Q4, Missouri will open in Alberta and early and we'll call it mid-2026. Yes, acquisition is important but as I mentioned earlier, acquisition will take place. That's natural funnel. But for us, as I spoke about earlier is how do you create that healthier middle part of the funnel? Whether it's players that have engaged with us, maybe they've stepped away or one of our main focus areas as well. Ryan is out by with the brand elevated but also elevating our players I. E. The premium Mass VI players. You could imagine VIPs for any sports book or iGaming brand. Obviously those VIP.
- [19:40]
Ryan Alford
What's that? Is it almost the 8020 rule?
- [19:42]
Casey Herbus
You're pretty close. Yeah. Our brand certainly serves that audience well and now it's more of a concentrated effort of raising that level of premium mass players for us.
- [19:52]
Ryan Alford
Yeah, you got to activate intent now that you've generated awareness from all that super bowl because you have. Because I heard the water cooler talk. Did you see that? You see Jamie and you see we complicate this stuff but it's still, still the top of the funnel, the middle of the funnel, the bottom funnel. Like in one way, shape or form.
- [20:07]
Casey Herbus
It's like anything else. Even though this world is moving so fast. The funnel is the funnel. It's kind of like credit card. There's 70 operators in Michigan. What's going to entice somebody to download our app? And maybe they the average sports better in iGaming they have three plus apps. It's like all right, well how do we become one of those three? And then it's like credit cards, wallet share. All right, once he, she or they downloads the 3 or 4 apps then what is going to make them use BetMGM? BetMGM then why BetMGM? That's marketing carries a big part of that load. But it's also going to be product product UX and player experience as well. That's going to help drive that middle part of the funnel.
- [20:40]
Ryan Alford
Well, if I was a betting man, and I am, I think you're well on your well on your way, wouldn't bet against you. Talk to me about where anyone listening can learn through marketing junkies like me about what you guys are doing on the team from a marketing perspective. But then just all the BETMGM stuff.
- [20:55]
Casey Herbus
Obviously across any of the social platform handlesmgm. It's such a special company, great culture. We're based in Jersey City. That's where our headquarters are. I'm there three weeks a month. We've got 150 team members in marketing. We're very blessed to with some really solid agencies, creative and media and but we're also in house agency. We're creating tens of thousands, 20,000 plus assets on annualized basis supporting our marketing media plans and follow me on LinkedIn, whatever it might be. I love what I'm doing and being out there as a brand. Whether it's in the endemic circles or in the marketing advertising communities. You usually find someone from our brand hanging out.
- [21:26]
Ryan Alford
Casey it was a lot of fun. Enjoyed having enjoyed it. Hey guys, you know to find Rus Ryan is right.com you'll find highlight clips, full video, audio and links to BET, MGM and of course Casey's LinkedIn. As he mentioned, go give them a shout out. It's a legendary campaign and I love Jon Hamm. So I'm a sucker anyway. But you know who's the sucker? It's us. Because we're lucky to have you to make us number one. We'll see you next time.
- [21:51]
Casey Herbus
Right about now this has been Right.
- [21:55]
Podcast Announcer
About now with Ryan Alford, a Radcast network production. Visit ryanisright.com for full audio and video versions of the show or to inquire about sponsorship opportunities. Thanks for listening.