Breakout Performers: Who Won the NFL Combine?

Summary

Ringer Tailgate – March 5, 2026

Episode: "Breakout Performers: Who Won the NFL Combine?"

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Overview

This episode of Ringer Tailgate dives into NFL Combine reactions, standout athletic performances, and the implications for top prospects and college football programs. Hosts Tate Frazier, Van Lathan, and Joel Anderson mix sharp combine analysis with irreverent banter and offbeat college football commentary. The show highlights both the spectacle and the scrutiny of the combine, examining the intersection of athleticism, draft stock, and football culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Combine Athleticism & Track Talk

• The episode opens with Joel Anderson reminiscing about his elite youth sprinting days and the overlap between track speed and football prospects.
  • [00:41] “I realized being here on the East Coast... I've never been to Penn Relays. It's my dream to go cover all the big track meets.” – Joel
• The hosts relate freakish track speed to combine performances, referencing historical high school sprint times and crossover athletes.
  • [01:57] “Louisiana, Texas, there are some freaks… tailbacks at 215, 220 who win track meets.” – Van

2. Standout Combine Performances

• Sonny Styles (Ohio State LB)

  • [05:52] “Did you expect this from Sonny Styles… it looks like he’s going top three in this draft?” – Tate
  • [05:57] “Obviously, hell no.” – Van (on expecting Sonny’s numbers)
  • [06:39] “43.5 inch vertical jump. Highest by an off-ball linebacker since Cameron Wake in 2005.” – Tate
  • The group debates whether an off-ball linebacker could ever go No. 1, balancing highlight athletic metrics vs. positional draft value.
  • [08:35] “Sometimes if you don’t do freakish things on the football field…people can lose track of what kind of dynamic athlete you are.” – Van

• Kenyon Sadiq (Tight End)

  • [09:43] “I did not have him at a 4.3 [second 40]. I did not have him at that.” – Van
  • [11:29] “We have to start talking about… when we're talking about explosive athletes, the football vs. basketball comparison.” – Van
  • [11:56] “Fastest time ever for a tight end, right?” – Tate

• Jeremiah Love (RB)

  • [18:25] “He seems like the big winner of the weekend… had a nice interview, ‘I’m going to Chick-Fil-A and getting a chocolate milkshake’…” – Tate

3. Bias Toward “Freaks” and Combine Training

• [13:38] Discussion of “teaching to the test” at the combine, where specialized training translates into eye-popping but sometimes misleading numbers.
  • [14:24] “A lot of the combine performances that you see now are teaching to the test… these are specific athletic feats that they are coached to.” – Van
• Reference to Mike Mamula, the “original workout warrior," as an early case of a player drafted too high on combine numbers alone.
  • [16:30] “I remember when Mike Mamula… blew all these drills off the chart… got drafted in the top 10… he just kind of got hit with the workout warrior tab.” – Joel

4. Who Really Won the Combine?

• Panel weighs whose stock rose the most:
  • [19:09] “David Bailey… ended up testing out more athletic than I thought… but Jeremiah Love… just looked so explosive, so skilled, so cool.” – Van
  • [20:07] “What’s a good comp for him? What if Shaun Alexander was explosive?” – Joel (“Pure runner,” “twitchy as hell.”)
  • Bandies comps like Curtis Martin and DeMarco Murray.

5. Quarterback Discussion – Big Board Update

• Focused segment on prospects and combine risers:

  • [22:01] “Taylor Green… changed his life this past weekend. Fastest 40 time, set new vert jump record…” – Joel
  • [52:32] Updated Joel’s QB Big Board:
    • 1. Fernando Mendoza
    • 2. Ty Simpson (“Big Daddy”—see extended nickname debate at [23:35])
    • 3. Taylor Green
    • 4. Garrett Nussmeier
    • 5. Carson Beck
  • [53:44] “We think Mendoza goes one, and then Ty Simpson, we’re thinking like 15–25 range.” – Tate
  • [54:28] “Ty Simpson, Mac Jones, they’re both coaches award guys… not MVPs, but they try hard.” – Tate

• Extended riff on film analysis, media groupthink, and whether Todd McShay is “stealing” Joel’s takes.

  • [24:21] “If I identify something for months and it starts moving into the ether, then it’s proof that I know a little something about the game.” – Joel

6. What Combine Results Actually Mean

• [56:31] “What’s the best value at QB… a guy who maybe doesn’t have the tape but has upside?” – Van
  • Attention to Haynes King, who “ran a 4.46” ([57:10], Joel), but Van questions its value for projecting real QB future.
• Combine numbers can boost “gadget” potential but don’t necessarily translate to long-term starter success.

7. On “System QBs,” Supporting Casts, and Overvaluing Traits

• Debate about what makes a sure-thing quarterback and how prospect evaluations still rely on seeking “the next Josh Allen.”
  • [64:57] “Quarterback is the most volatile and least certain position… you can litter the podcast with names of can’t-miss QBs who missed.” – Van
  • [68:56] “A lot of QBs could have done what Mendoza did last year.” – Joel
  • [69:01] “I don’t like couldas. I like what happened.” – Van
  • [70:15] “People are looking at QB now to defeat flaws in team building—but for that to work they almost have to be perfect.” – Van

8. Sentimental Combine Moments & The Life-Changing Impact

• [73:23] “I always get almost sentimental… a young man has changed his life… Mike Washington… ran a 4.33, the fastest running back at the combine… he was on the bench crying… He’s going to get drafted, it’s going to change his life. I always find that beautiful.” – Joel

9. College Football Headlines

• [77:00] Mississippi passes bill to make NIL (Name, Image, Likeness) payments tax-free, trying to keep up in SEC recruiting wars.
  • [78:08] “Ole Miss’s story… is they’re the black people of college football: gotta work twice as hard to go half as far.” – Joel

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“It’s one thing to know somebody is fast, but then it’s another thing to see like Megatron run a 4.35… Always surprising when someone is that dominant…even if you know they’re a good athlete.”
— Van Lathan ([05:57])

“We have to start talking about explosive athletes—the football versus basketball comparison… fourth-three in the 40, bro. Nuts.”
— Van Lathan ([11:29])

“The slow people and the unathletic people are not risking it anymore… There’s a real bias toward freaks.”
— Joel Anderson ([12:05])

“Teaching to the test… That is kind of what happens in an NFL combine now…they are coached to…run that 40.”
— Van Lathan ([14:24])

“If I identify something for months… it’s proof I know a little something about the game.”
— Joel Anderson ([24:21])

“When I think of guys that really improved their stock… I think Jeremiah Love. He just looked so explosive, so skilled, so cool… He’s going to be a star in the NFL to me.”
— Van Lathan ([19:09])

“I don’t like couldas. I like what happened.”
— Van Lathan ([69:01])

“You’ll lose a lot of money trying to predict what a woman will like.”
— Joel Anderson ([50:24])
(During an extended and comical digression on celebrity couples and aesthetic standards)

“Being quarterback is some weird shit, man… I don’t think it’s smart to ever make any definitive case against a quarterback ever. Because you just don’t know.”
— Joel Anderson ([72:03])

“I always get almost sentimental… a young man has changed his life… He’s going to get drafted, it’s going to change his life.”
— Joel Anderson ([73:23])

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Running Gags, Banter & Podcast Chemistry

• Extended “who did Joel diss?” leaderboard, with hosts tallying up playful “disses” thrown at celebrities, analysts, and even entire groups (e.g. Destiny’s Child, Jermaine Dupri, Todd McShay).

  • [25:21] On the "diss" list: Tom Segura, Jermaine Dupree, Lyle Lovett, Todd McShay, various quarterbacks, and even the city of Bristol, CT [84:16]

• Ongoing inside jokes about proud moments, failed attempts to book comedian guests, pop culture references (Pleasure Principle video, Bill Bellamy), and the struggle to “politic” in media.

• Comic riff on ESPN cafeteria culture vs. “getting it out the mud” at The Ringer.

  • [83:01] “The ESPN cafeteria… breakfast was good… That’s one of the things I miss about ESPN the most.”

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Quick Reference Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | Highlights | |---------|-----------|----------------| | Sprint/Track Chat & Combine Crossovers | 00:41–04:34 | Joel’s sprinting history, speed metrics, regional differences | | Sonny Styles Combine Impact | 05:21–08:35 | Styles’ vertical jump, positional value, late-blooming hype | | Kenyon Sadiq & TE “Freak” Metrics | 09:43–11:56 | Historic tight end 40, physique talk | | Who “Won” the Combine | 18:09–22:01 | Jeremiah Love, David Bailey, stock risers | | QB Big Board, Tape vs. Traits | 52:07–54:59 | Mendoza, Simpson, Green, Beck, Nussmeier rankings debate | | Combine Overhype Discussion | 13:38–17:31 | Teaching to the test, Mike Mamula parable, training specificity | | Life-changing Combine Stories | 73:23–74:42 | Mike Washington’s emotional moment | | NIL Headlines & Mississippi Law | 77:00–79:35 | SEC recruiting, state tax policy | | Extended Banter/"Diss" Tally | 24:21, 33:12, 84:16 | Nickname arguments, pop culture, playful beefs | | End: ESPN Cafeteria, Wrap-up | 83:01–84:38 | Nostalgic facility talk, wrap-up jokes |

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Final Thoughts

This episode captures both the exhilarating spectacle of the NFL Combine and the skepticism with which draftniks view outlier performances. It balances irreverent personal anecdotes, barbershop-style debates about “true” athleticism and value, and just enough college football policy updates to satisfy the sport’s most ardent followers.

• Biggest Combine Winners: Jeremiah Love (RB), Sonny Styles (LB), Kenyon Sadiq (TE)
• Quarterback Watch: Mendoza clear No. 1, with Simpson and Green as high-upside risers
• Theme: Freakish performances create hype (and real opportunity) but won’t erase the importance of tape—and context in which those statistics are achieved.

The hosts’ chemistry and playful bickering, alongside their thoughtful analysis, make the show enjoyable and insightful for casual and hardcore listeners alike.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Welcome back to Ringer Tailgate, the Wednesday edition of the show. I'm your host, Tate Frazier, and we're talking NFL combine reactions. We'll also talk some headlines that are happening around college football and beyond. But first and foremost, let's say what's up to our guys. Van Lathan in studio. What's up, Van?

[A]

Gotta raise that rule for Texas Relay Relays, too.

[C]

What's up? Shout them out.

[B]

We're talking Texas Relays and all things in between. And that's because Joel Anderson is here. And Joel in the TCU sweatshirt. What's up, Joel?

[C]

How you doing, man? Basketball team had a big victory last night. Top 10 getting us off that bubble. But, yeah, man, good to see y'. All. I was trying to get the fellas to come up to Penn Relays with me. I realized being here on the East Coast, I only live two hours away from Philly. I. I've never been to Penn Relays. It's my dream to go cover all the big track meets. Like, I wanna go to the champs in Jamaica as well. You know, I don't. The Olympics. I'm just. It's weird. I don't care as much about that, but, like, covering the World Championships, like, that would be great. Like, I would love to see that, but. Yeah. So anyway, I was trying to look up the Tapin Relays, but, you know, they not track heads like me, you know?

[B]

Yeah, well, we got into the track conversation. Cause we were talking about the combine. Talking about 40 times, Joel. We were talking about your 40 times and your track pass, and you were talking about being a state champion. So I wanted to give you a. Before we get into the combine, state champ Joel Anderson.

[C]

Have y'. All. Wait, are y'. All. Do y' all really not know the story about how I was the fastest 10 year old in the country in 19?

[A]

We knew that, but I didn't know that it continued into high school.

[C]

Oh, yeah, I was fast in high school.

[B]

I thought you slowed down.

[C]

Oh, no, no.

[A]

I thought you did, too.

[C]

No, no, no, no.

[A]

You were a state champion sprint.

[C]

I was fast, but I wasn't quite as. You know, I wasn't. You know, I wasn't elite and then also had put on football weight. You know, I was like.

[A]

Right. That happens. We don't talk about that a lot.

[C]

Like, there.

[A]

Louisiana, Texas, There are some freaks. Don't get me wrong. There are freaks. There are freaks that started for your school at tailback at, I don't know, 215, 220 pounds that will go out there and win track meets. But a lot of the dedicated track guys were like, they were skinnier guys, right?

[C]

Well, you remember Kendall Cleveland?

[A]

Yep.

[C]

Man, I saw Kendall Cleveland. That attracted me once when I was in, I guess Kendall Cleveland's only three years older than me and that was a big dude, man. And again, he ran like a 10 8, so he was still a freak. But he like 108 is competitive. It's not elite in Texas high school sprinter, but. Yeah, but you know, to see somebody as big as Kendall Cleveland Move 108 is something, man. This episode is brought to you by TaxAct. Like an expert coach, TaxAct offers step by step guidance and guaranteed accuracy when filing taxes. Get tips along the way. Add expert assist to talk to tax experts and let our experts do your taxes for you. With Expert full service, TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details.

[A]

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[B]

Well, we saw a lot of guys who are moving at ridiculous speeds this weekend.

[A]

What do you think trending holiday's 100, 100, 100 meter time was 10 to

[C]

4, something like that.

[A]

10 flat.

[C]

Oh, that's right. Why did I get that wrong? 10 flat. That's right. Yeah, that's right.

[A]

His personal best was 10 flat. That's when he was in college though, man. I mean flirting. He's flirting with world class speed.

[C]

LSU has, I mean, you know this I'm sure has. I mean just a world class sprint team and track team and always has even since I was a kid, you know.

[A]

Yeah, because a lot of. But I mean that is a Louisiana Texas like that's a Louisiana Texas combined type of thing. Like, like Carrie Richardson went to lsu. She's from Dallas, you know what I'm saying? So that's like a combined thing, the regional thing right there.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, you know the kids want to go go run down there. I mean I think a kid that rent won the 100 in Texas a couple years ago. I think Jelani Watkins, something like that.

[A]

Jelani Watkins. I think he's in the transfer report. I don't think he's playing for us anymore.

[C]

But. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He won state 6A sprinting and he ran like a 10 flat. You know what I mean? Like that's just, that's what it takes to win state of Texas. Now there was a kid, there's a kid. And I don't think I'm getting this wrong. He ran a 10, 1 3. He finished fourth place in the Class 6, a 100 meter final in Texas. It's just with those kids, the times kids running out are insane. It's.

[A]

Jelani transferred to Arkansas. He did, yeah, he transferred to Arkansas.

[C]

Is he going to play. Try to play football there too? Because he was a little. He did some receiving shit there about too.

[A]

Yeah, he was going to be. I always. I can't. I could not wait for them to find ways to like get the ball in his hands on some Skyler Green type of different shit like that. But it kind of didn't come together. But you know, he's got just blistering speed, so we'll see what he can do.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, let's talk about some blistering speed because there was a lot of guys at the combine that were incredible 300 prospects there in Indianapolis, on field drills, 40 yard dashes, obviously, testing interviews, we'll get to all that. Sonny Styles, though, I want to start there. We're going to do our one big reaction to the combine. But did you guys see just the coverage of Sonny Styles and the numbers that he put up? I mean, there's a conversation now to be had. I mean, it looks like he's going to be top three in this draft. I mean, did you expect this van from Sonny Styles when you saw some of the measurements and some of the numbers that were coming out?

[A]

Obviously, Hell no.

[B]

I mean, who could. Yeah, I mean he.

[A]

I knew that he was the man, but I don't think that there's. I can't think of a truly revelatory combine performance that wasn't partly super surprising. It's one thing to know somebody is fast, but then it's another thing to see like megatron run a 4, 3, 5 or whatever it was. It's one thing to know that a guy that big is fast or know somebody's a good athlete and then to see all of the measurables that they produce at the combine. It's always surprising when someone is that dominant in these drills, even if you Know they're a good athlete. They always surprise you for me with how good of an athlete they are.

[B]

Yeah. 43 and a half inch vertical jump. Highest by an off ball linebacker since Cameron wake back in 2005, who was 45 and a half vertical jump, which is an insane number to put it, put it in context though. Calvin Johnson, megatron, he was 42 and a half vertical inch jump. So that gives you to put it in a place of what Sonny Styles was able to do there. Joel, when you see this, your thoughts on Sonny Styles and like, is it worth maybe. I don't know. I mean, obviously the number one pick seems like a foregone conclusion, but when you have someone like this is that special with 12 man personnel being such a big focal point in the NFL. Obviously off ball linebacker is in a position you take number one. But man, this is special.

[C]

Yeah, I know. The thing is, is like it's funny because Arvl Reese is the superior prospect or at least the one that is going to be drafted ahead of him most likely because, you know, he's had his hand in the dirt. He's a pass rusher, but he's also about an inch shorter than Sonny Styles and like, you know, 10 pounds lighter, right? Or maybe like 10, 5 to 10 pounds lighter. Like Sonny Styles is a bigger, taller athlete, A faster, good basketball player. Good basketball, yeah, but he's, but he like, he doesn't rest a passer. And so that's kind of weird because you'd be like, well, man, they've known he was six, but could he rush?

[B]

I mean, why, why can't he rush the passer?

[C]

That's a great question. But again, that just, that's, that takes years of practice, hand placement, all that other stuff. Like you got to learn that. And it's, he sure you would want to take a chance with an athlete like that, but I think that puts a cap on how far, how high he can go. I think he'll probably move into the top 10. But the thing is kind of weird about Sonny Styles is that for all the. He played at Ohio State for four years, he was a national champ. Two, he was national champ two years ago. He's all American this year. And it's funny, it's like everybody just discovered, oh man, Sonny Styles is a badass. Like, you know, like all in one weekend we discovered this. But he had been great the whole time. Like he's been one of those freaks that have been there the whole time. So.

[A]

Yeah, well, sometimes, you know, what happens is like the. If you don't do freakish things on the football field, and I'm not saying that he didn't, but if you don't do freakish things on the football field, people can sometimes lose sight or lose track of what kind of dynamic athlete you have to be to play at the level that he's played consistently his entire career. Like, all of those guys are phenomenal, phenomenal athletes. But it takes sometimes, you know, knocking somebody's helmet off, South Carolina against Michigan, jumping over Davion Clowney, jumping over somebody. Lavar Arrington doing the things that Curse would do. It takes that sometimes people to play a signature play like that even. Remember, I'm watching Florida and Florida brings in Anthony Richardson. This is bringing him off the bench. Like one of the first times I saw him on the field and bro, he dropped back and then just fucking took off. And I was like, shit, that's Cam Newton. Yeah, I was like. And he looked. He's faster than Cam, right? I was like, shit, that's Cam Newton. So when you see something like that, you go, there's a freak athlete.

[C]

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

[A]

Like Ken Sadiq. I did not have him at a 4:3, bro. Like, I like, I know that he's a badass. I did not have him at a 4 3. I did not have him at that.

[C]

The only thing that made me think that that was possible is that he's. I don't know how to explain how his shoulder pads fit over him, but you could see his biceps and shoulder cuts in a way that was unusual on a football field. Like, I'm certain he had cut it the sleeve some way to accentuate it. But I was like, God damn, he looks like, you know, Mr. America out there. You know what I mean? He like he man out there. So I figured that he was going to be some sort of a physical freak, but I didn't, you know. Yeah, we all, we all.

[A]

We like, we watching the game, bro, watching the guy catch the pass. And Joe's like, look at his arms.

[C]

What you trying to do? What you trying to say? What are you trying to insinuate? Go ahead. In any way, shape or form.

[A]

He's impressive.

[C]

No, carry that.

[A]

No, no, he's impressed.

[C]

You're.

[A]

Now I'm agreeing with you.

[C]

He's in the.

[A]

I'm looking at him right now.

[C]

You don't look at players arms when they play football. You don't look. Yeah, I do.

[A]

I look at. Hey. And you can see their thighs easier now. Because they don't wear. They're out there playing in biker shorts, bro.

[C]

I mean, I just, I remember earlier in the year when I saw Tyreek Sharp. I think that's his name. He's a defensive tackle at Florida. And he looked. I don't even know how to explain it. Like, he just looked different. Like maybe he had been trying out for Mr. Olympia or some shit. He's just a defensive tackle for Florida. And the way that they tailored these uniforms now is kind of weird. I mean, it was kind of like you could see that they were trying to put a little style with it or whatever to look, you know, like

[B]

they were trying to make you more aerodynamic.

[C]

Yes, aerodynamic. That's the word I was searching for.

[A]

I'm going to put you guys. I mean, Sadiq's. Sadiq's combine was fucking ridiculous.

[C]

Yeah, he.

[A]

He weighed in at 241. He's six, three and a half. Smaller tight end. Smaller tight end. 241. Six three, six foot six, wingspan, 43 vertical. I mean, we have to start talking about, when we're talking about explosive athletes, the football versus basketball comparison, you know, 11, 11, one broad jump, fourth three in the 40, bro. Nuts.

[B]

Fastest time ever for a tight end, right? For the 40 time, yeah.

[C]

But you, you know what this made me think too, is that Alfrias has

[B]

got it pulled up, right?

[C]

Oh, look, I'm looking at it, right? Look at you, bro. You right on it. The thing about it, though, is that now the combine has really become interesting television because the slow people and the unathletic people are not risking it anymore. Like, they're not going to jump out there because CARNELL Tate ran a 4, 5, 4, which is a solid 40 time, right. For a big guy like him. But every after he ran it, I remember as soon as he got to the end of the race, I was like, man, they're going to be talking about how he's slow now. Like, that's just going to be something that is going to dog him for the next few months until he hopefully can bump it up to 4, 4, 9 on his on campus workout or something like that. But so it's, it's. There's a real bias toward freaks because I remember when Jeremiah Love lined up to run his 40 and I was like, why is Jeremiah love running a 40? You don't need to do this. And I was like, in the next thought, I was like, oh, he's doing it because he knows he's going to run 4, 3 or something like that. And he stepped off a 4, 3, 6. So it's good. That's biased. We get to see all these, like, impressive, physical athletes in ways we didn't get. You know, you remember. Are y' all old enough to remember when, like, they would have this off season contest between athletes like Herschel Walker would be running against Rod Woodson or something like in a. In a 40 yard dash in off season? Yeah, yeah. And you could see the athletes then in a way that was really unique. And it was up close. That's what the combine kind of feels like to me now. It's like, oh, okay. Like, I'm getting to see these guys compete and run around and show you how athletic they are in a way that we just don't get to see during football season. As you mentioned earlier, are you guys

[A]

familiar with the term and if you watched either Lean on Me or the Wire, you would have heard this term. Are you guys familiar with the term called teaching to the test?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, Joel, tell people what teaching to the test is.

[C]

Well, it's like instead of foregoing, instead of doing like a traditional education system or classroom system or whatever, if a state has a standardized test, what teachers inevitably do is they.

[B]

End of grade end, of course.

[C]

Yeah. They start teaching how to ace the test. More than treatment. Teaching a comprehensive education is that.

[A]

That is the definition. Now, the reason why they do that is because the funding that goes into

[B]

the school, they want the block grants

[A]

on performance and grants and stuff like that. And that's heavily influenced by test scores. That is kind of what happens in an NFL combine. Now, like, these guys are great athletes, but a lot of what they are doing is teaching to the test. Insofar as all of these drills are concerned, there's more concentration on the way you run that 40, the way you pick them cones up or the way you get around them cones, the way you broad jump, the way you. All of this stuff, these are specific athletic feats that they are coached to. I'm not saying that it's not impressive, but what I'm saying is that a lot of the combine performances that you see now are teaching to the test is, I know I gotta run this 40. So I'm in a track stance with a guy that is dedicated to teaching me how to run this 40, to teaching me how to do this stuff. That's why freakish monster combine performances might get you drafted high and get that initial contract to be pretty big, but we're seeing more than we've ever seen before. Those Type of raw athletic numbers not correlate to having success on the football field because oftentimes it's a different set of skills.

[C]

Well, the funny thing about this too is that, I mean, this goes back a long time. First of all, I remember when Mike Mamula. Y' all remember Mike Mamula?

[A]

I do.

[C]

The Boston College defensive end. And he like ran a 4 or 5. He was a defensive end. I think he was like 6, 5, 2, 6270, something like that. And he just blew all these. These drills off the chart. Like, benched a lot, ran, ran fast, jumped high, and he got drafted in the top 10. And then, I mean, if you look back at his career, it wasn't as bad as everybody made it seem at the time, but he just kind of got hit with the. Well, he was just a workout warrior tab, right. Where it's just like. Yeah, because he taught to the test. He was one of the first people that I can remember that they said his agent got him practicing those specific drills. They didn't just used to do that. It was like a kind of. I mean, it's crazy to think about, but in like 1995, when Mike Mamula was in the combine, like, that was one of the first times a person had an idea like, what if we practice the three cone drill?

[B]

Yeah, I was gonna say sometimes it'd be like guys were fish out of the water. They're like, what am I doing? And then, you know, they'd be shook. And then obviously you don't move as quickly because you're thinking through what you're doing. And now it's like they've done it a million times.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, and the thing. My. Even my old ass. I mean, every athlete that comes up through the pipeline now gets some familiarity with it. And then you get to hone it down. Because when I went. I was at the Nike combine in Houston in 1995. Shout out. University of Houston. That was one of the. That's when they. It's like they opened their brand new indoor facility, which was amazing at the time. And we did all the same shit. Like we did vertical, we did 40s, we did three cone drills, all that stuff. And so, yeah, like, anybody that's coming through that pipeline now has got some familiarity with it. And you only get better at it as you go along, theoretically.

[A]

Interesting fact about Mike Mamula, before we move on. Oh, do you guys want to guess his Wonderlic?

[B]

Oh, what's the highest score on a Wonderlic test?

[C]

I just Looked this up the other day.

[A]

It's a 49.

[C]

49? Yeah.

[A]

Crazy 49. Wonderlic tests, man. It's pretty impressive.

[C]

Boston College ain't no slouch, slouch over there, old Mamula.

[A]

And by the way, like you said, he was all right. He wasn't. He wasn't nothing. He only played for five years. He had 31 sacks.

[C]

Yeah, man, he didn't. I mean, yo, he didn't made a Pro bowl, but he had a solid career. Yeah.

[A]

So five sacks, eight sacks, Four, eight. Five. You could, you could. You could depend on him to at least be a force. But he wasn't no crazy G G. Like that strap with hit hard tack. It's a menace. Nothing like that. But he was. He was. He was.

[C]

He was straight. Yeah.

[A]

Shout out to Mamula, wherever you at, dog. You know, unless you didn't done something terrible. I have to say that because I don't know you probably.

[B]

Yeah, Joel.

[A]

Something terrible.

[C]

Let me.

[B]

Yeah, Joel. Do some Googles real quick just to make sure. One big question here. Who won the combine weekend? Feel like I'll throw my name out there and I want to get your reaction. I feel like you won, Love. No, I didn't win.

[A]

I wasn't there my name,

[C]

but we could talk about it later.

[B]

Joel. Joel definitely would have won. Jeremiah Love. I feel like McShay has her number one. If you look at a lot of these power rankings, Jeremiah Love is up there. Obviously you don't take a running back number one. That seems to be a predetermined thing these days. But he seems like the big winner of the weekend. And he had the nice interview after he got done with his 40s, like, I'm going to Chick Fil A and getting a chocolate milkshake. That was funny. That was a nice little, you know, moment there for Jeremiah Love. But I thought he was the biggest winner. I wanted to get your guys reaction to that.

[C]

I could see that. Go ahead, man. Also, Mike Mamula is VP of business development for Fidelity Titles National Commercial Services Operations.

[B]

He's out there.

[C]

He looks good. There's a picture of him right here. He looks tall, slender. Okay, shout out.

[A]

I think David Bailey actually had a pretty decent. David Bailey, like ended up testing out a little bit more athletic than I thought that he would. That 4, 540 that he ran was like. It's impressive by that, I mean, that's just somebody on the backside of it. I think the obvious answer, to be honest with you, is Jeremiah Love. He looked like one of the best pure athletes with that also skill set that's in the entire draft. There are, like, historic numbers that were put up by Sonny Styles and, you know, by guys like Kenyon Siddiq. But when I think of guys that really improved their stock, really improved their stock by what they were able to do, I think David Bailey. I think Mansour Delaine from LSU really had a fine showing at the combine. I think also, you know, you just got to give the. Jeremiah Love. He just looked so explosive, so skilled, so cool. Like, he has the. He's going to be a star in the NFL to me. And I came away from his combine looking at it like that.

[C]

What's a good comp for him? Cause I was thinking about, like, his body type, and I was like, what if Sean Alexander was explosive?

[A]

If he was that fast.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. But I mean, that's the thing that makes it crazy with him, like, Jeremiah Love, because it's like, oh, like, he's solidly built, tough runner, but also he can. He can pull off on your ass, you know?

[A]

But he's also, like, Sean Alexander, something else. He's an extinct. He's an instinctive runner.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Like, he's a pure runner.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, the thing about Sean Alexander. Sean Alexander was athletic enough, by the way. To me, a drastically underrated.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Running back. But I think Sean Alexander was, like, a four, five. Might have been a fourth.

[C]

I think he was four or five. Like, he was like a high four or five, too. Five, five, six.

[A]

Yeah. So. But he was just such an instinctive runner, and he ran with such great pad level and such great leverage, and so Jeremiah Love can do all of that, but he's also just dead twitchy. Just twitchy as. So that's actually not a bad comp.

[C]

Yeah. Terrifying in the open field. I was trying. Yeah. I was like, what if Willis McGee hadn't got hurt? You know, something like that.

[B]

You know, DeMarco Murray, but like, another level.

[C]

Yeah, that's a. Kind of. Because this. Even the build. Because.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to figure out.

[A]

Even, like a super freakishly twitchy Curtis Martin or something.

[C]

Yeah, There you go. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Hey, let's blend those all together. We get Jeremiah Love. I thought he was a big winner. Joel, what's up? What'd you get something else?

[C]

Yeah. No, I thought I was a winner. And I mean, here's the thing. My big board. You. If you all are paying attention to the show. Okay.

[B]

Did you put out? Can I. Can I.

[C]

Before you go, Sunny Styles highlight tape before. Who was that? Right? Remember when we were going through Joel Anderson's quarterback big board and I put y' all on the game about Taylor Green. What did Taylor Green go out there and do?

[B]

He had an incredible combine.

[A]

He had. He had a fucking historic combine.

[C]

He changed his life. He changed his life this past weekend. I think he ran a 4, 3, 7. He was fastest. He set the new vert jump record 43.5. You know, and then people are going to. People are going to give him a chance just because of that.

[A]

I would like to. By the way, I would like to apologize to Curtis Martin. I'm looking this up. Curtis Martin, his combine numbers were pretty. You know, he legit 4, 4, 4.

[C]

Oh, damn.

[A]

He was out there, dude. I don't know why I thought he was a little bit. He was a legit 4, 4, 41 inch vertical leap.

[C]

Like he had a 41 inch vertical leap.

[A]

He did. He did. So shout out to Curtis Martin. You was a badass dog.

[C]

Shout out, man. Yeah. For real? Yeah, man. And then like, yeah. So, you know, I put y' all on today. I talked about Caleb Downs. He didn't really do a lot of this weekend, but he's creeping up that board. And look, I'm not saying. I'm not saying that Todd McShay listens to our show or is taking my thing, but it was this week. It was this week. I heard him on there talking about with Mitch that Ty Simpson had better tape than Fernando Mendoza through the first eight, nine games of the year. And it's closer than you think. Which speaks to.

[B]

Sounds like he's taking orlovkis.

[A]

The floor.

[C]

The floor.

[A]

More Dan than anybody else. I don't think it's you.

[C]

The ceiling. The ceiling on Fernando Mendoza. Remember how I talked about that? Not as.

[B]

Not much room between the floor and the ceiling.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Claustrophobic.

[C]

Not. Not a great athlete.

[A]

You know, he's Ty. Who now? Ty say his full name.

[B]

What's his nickname, though? What do you call him?

[A]

What do you call him?

[C]

What do y' all call him?

[A]

I've never.

[C]

You call him. Call. That's not his nickname anyway. Joe.

[A]

I'm not. I'm not doing. I'm not. Unless Joel says type. Unless Joe says Ty Simpson's nickname. I'm not doing the rest of the podcast. I'm not doing the rest of the podcast.

[C]

I guess we're going to be here to stand still.

[A]

Joe, what's Ty Simpson's nickname? Why can't you say it? Duke, where's the Duke. Duke. Why is Joel. We gave Ty Simpson a nickname he gave him. Why is Joel fighting back against it? Like, what's the big deal?

[C]

There's no need to talking about that. Joel, you.

[B]

You're out here saying that Todd McShay is stealing your takes, which is weird.

[C]

I didn't say he was stealing it. I'm just saying it's like, now it's like, oh, man, Maybe Fernando Mend. Is that not the guy?

[B]

But, like, this is a guy that breaks down all the film, and you just randomly will maybe make a comment, like, over months and months of his show, and now you're trying to say that he's taking your stuff.

[A]

But.

[C]

Okay, time out, time out, time out. First of all, if I identify something for months and months and bring it up and then people start. It starts moving into the ether, then it's proof that I know a little something about the game. But also, I mean, look, Todd McShay, great at his job, obviously, he's making a lot more money, doing better than I am. Okay, the grinding tape.

[B]

I appreciate the concession on the front.

[C]

He talks who give him information, which is great. That's amazing. He worked really hard to do that. But, I mean, I could grind tape.

[A]

Hold on.

[C]

You know,

[A]

one thing, One thing.

[C]

Just so we know.

[A]

I mean, just so we know, I

[C]

can identify when somebody is good.

[A]

Because what. What you're going to try to do is either at the end of this show or on the next show, you're gonna act like you didn't just diss him.

[C]

Yes. It is not a dis.

[A]

Act. Like we're gonna say.

[C]

No, I'm just saying.

[A]

How many times have you said something like that?

[C]

I mean, that. That is a. It's like splitting an atom. And it's not just. It's watching tape to see who's a good football player, who's not a good football player, who has the potential to get better, who's probably reached.

[A]

All right, Joe, let me ask you this. Okay, cool. I. I feel what you're saying.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Joe, when you are evaluating quarterbacks, what do you look for?

[C]

Yeah, well, I'm looking for accuracy, for one, which is a problem with Taylor Green. Right. But you hope that you could just do something with that. That raw, athletic canvas that he got.

[A]

Don't. Don't start talking to generalities.

[C]

I'm looking for good feet. I'm looking for. I'm looking for calm, like, you know, who always had the best feet in the pocket. That. I said it probably doesn't But I remember when Cam Newton, they were talking about him and how he would translate to the league and, like, would he be good in the NFL? And I always said about Cam Newton, I was like, I don't know. But I was like, I'm going to take my chance on him because he's huge. He's big motherfucker. But also, he had the calmest feet in the pocket that I could remember seeing it. Cam Warden had kind of the same thing where I was just like, there's chaos going on around him, and he could just make a slight move. It just looks like he totally calmed me in the chaos.

[A]

So back to Taylor Green. Where is Taylor Green inaccurate? Where is he accurate, and where is he inaccurate?

[C]

Well, I mean, he's not necessarily accurate on the deep. On the deep throw. He's, you know, he. They threw a lot of short passes this year. Like, you know, who was old boy? Who was it? Who was the offensive court? Was it. Bobby Petrino was the offensive coordinator there.

[A]

Yeah, he took over his head coach.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, Bobby Petrino has a real good knack for being able to use quarterbacks like that. Like, it's like, you don't have to be 100 accurate because he's getting. He's getting people open with his players or whatever. But, I mean, the thing is, is he can hit the open guy. Okay, see, y'.

[B]

All, I don't like McShay stealing all this. I just don't.

[C]

I wasn't prepared to do a dissertation on all this.

[B]

But he puts his name on a big board, he does all the work, and then you just come in and you're like, he's stealing my stuff.

[C]

That's you.

[B]

Not only did. Not only.

[C]

Did not say that.

[B]

No, not only did you say that, you went a step further. Like, I can look at tape. Anyone can do that.

[A]

Anyone can do it. That's a D dog.

[C]

Like, it's like, I know what anybody could do. Some people could do it. Sometimes you say stuff.

[A]

Did you realize that? Like, that's.

[C]

This is my offer to Ty and M. Like, let's. Let's go through a tapes. Let's grind some tape together. I want to see how they. I want to see how they grind tape.

[A]

Oh, that's my invitation.

[C]

What do they grind tape at?

[B]

You insulted them. Can I tell you something? I'm still trying to undo the mess that you made with Tom Segura two weeks ago. I got to be honest.

[C]

Why is this still a thing? Let it go. I mean, what's the. What's the hold up? No, tell me what the hold up is, because I want to hear it. So what, Billy? What's the hold up with Thompson girl? What's the problem?

[B]

You just insult people and then it's like, can they come on the show?

[A]

That's the problem.

[C]

I wasn't familiar with his people or his comedy. Is that if you're.

[A]

That.

[C]

I'm sorry. If they're.

[A]

There we go.

[C]

Offended by it.

[B]

All right, if you just said Big Daddy Simpson.

[A]

Yeah, we would have moved on. That's his name. Ty Big Daddy. His name is Ty Big Daddy Simpson. That's.

[B]

You said that you can own that. No one will know if.

[A]

Look, no one is stolen that. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

If Todd calls on Ty Big Daddy Simpson, we'll know he stole it from you.

[C]

Fair. I can see why y' all teamed up with Reddit CFB dog. You know what I'm saying? Because I want some ho shit right now. Listen, hold on.

[A]

Wait.

[B]

Hold on a second. Can we just go back to that? Because we were talking about this privately, and people don't know this portion of it. So you called Reddit cfp, like, or CFB hoes, right? Isn't that your whole thing? You're saying they're on Potion.

[C]

Wait, I don't even understand. Wait, why are we going back to this?

[B]

Well, because you brought them up.

[C]

You brought them up, all right? Because now you're asking me to cross up there. Can you believe this? Started off with asking me how. How what do I like in a quarterback? Then I had to break down tayin green tape, and now I got to remember a text conversation about what happened with Reddit CS Y' all are not having to do all this recall in full, in real time. Like, I. I just hope.

[B]

Drink some water and you'll be fine.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Cuz you.

[C]

You called.

[B]

You called him Hoe of the Year in our. I didn't call him Hoe of the Year.

[A]

We.

[C]

We put Mike Gundy in his Hoe

[B]

of the Year nominee. It was a nominee. It was a nominee because of the

[C]

fact that you did. Okay.

[B]

Because of you. Because we wouldn't have just randomly.

[C]

Oh, oh, yeah, you. I. Because of. Because Joel wanted something, you all felt compelled to do it. That's. That's like, a likely story.

[B]

The point. Defeat our mvp. The point is, is that you nominated them or you called them hoes for hoe or whatever. And. And then there's like, some online Internet award show where they're, like, nominated for, like, humanitarian of the year for, like, $60,000 that they raised for children of

[C]

members of the army. Do you think they raised as much money as Jeff Ketchum, Man? Jeff, come. Remember how Jeff Ketchum came on here and started raising money for kids after he insulted them?

[B]

Joe, Joe, you're just, like, stacking up shots, you know what I mean?

[C]

Every time you get out of water.

[A]

This is my thing. I actually love it. The only thing that fascinates me, I love it. Joel is spicy. He's saucy. The only thing that gets me is that Joel won't admit that he's dissing people.

[C]

Is that a diss? Wait, what part was a diss? What part of who? Let's go through the dis.

[A]

Okay, Fuck everything else. We're talking about the things you said about Todd, I could see him getting insulted about that, right?

[C]

I said I want to watch film with him. And I said, he has. He's done a lot of work to build up sources in the league, and I think he's worked in some NFL front offices.

[A]

And you basically insinuated that he's not really making, like, evaluations, that people are telling him stuff and that people are

[C]

telling himself, and he's making evaluations. But there's a reason that nobody ever gets all the picks right, or even, like, half of them, right? On a year to year basis, right? Because it's still an element of, like, you know, guessing.

[B]

And then there's deception in the front office. People tell you something.

[C]

Yeah, let me just.

[A]

Just, just.

[C]

I've been reading draft guides every year since I was, like, 10 years old. I always wanted to do that draft shit. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

Do it.

[C]

Sporting News. Bring back your pre c. Your. Your pre draft guide. I used to love that thing, but this I look forward to getting. So this is your platform to do it, Joe, I was telling y', all, and then y' all had to. Y' all come down on me on it. You know what I'm saying? Because I'm pointing out the game I was putting people on, and now you're coming on here and making fun of me. What do you want me to do?

[B]

Can you do. Can you make me a promise?

[C]

No. All right.

[B]

Just don't. Don't say anything about Marcus Lattimore for

[C]

the next two weeks. Oh, no, Yeah, I won't. I won't, I won't. I appreciate that, actually. On the real, do you want. Do you want to say before we go? Because I'm tired of hearing about this What Tom Segura's problem is? What's the problem?

[B]

We just have a conversation out there. It's fine.

[C]

There's still. I mean, what. Is there a negotiation going on? Is it because of. Because I said. Because we're in the negotiations with Tom Segura and them. Because I said. I don't know who that is. No, I'm sorry.

[A]

What happened was comedy. You dissed him and.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You dissed them. We were trying to get him on the show. We can't have him on the show because you dis him. You don't admit that you dis people. That's not fucking hysterical to me. It's not the funniest thing in the world.

[B]

And then you started bringing up his competition. You're like, bill Bellamy's better. You know, I didn't say.

[C]

I said that I was more familiar with Bill Bellamy. Yeah, y' all were acting like he was just famous as 1994 Bill Bellamy. And I was like, no one said

[A]

anything that would be.

[C]

Were you acting like I was supposed to?

[A]

Joel.

[C]

Joel. Joel.

[A]

That would be such an obscure and weird thing to say. If somebody said, hey, just to let you know. How famous is Tom Segura? Oh, he's about as famous as 1994 Bill Bellamy. Who would say that?

[B]

Probably, like, give me some good context.

[C]

I'd be like, well, damn, that's pretty famous. He was. When he doing MTV Jams in.

[A]

Nah. Bill Bellamy was famous as hell. 1990.

[C]

Yeah, bro. Like, I remember he did.

[A]

Jane Jackson was full of. Yeah, he was. I thought he should. Always thought he had a chance with Jan Jackson. He had a chance with Janet Jackson.

[C]

That's the thing that was going through my mind as we were talking about him. I always am like, damn, Janet Trot. And I thought that version of Janet Jackson was the. I mean, Janet Jackson was the first woman I was attracted to. Okay. Like, video Pleasure Principle.

[B]

You know, at least you're doing confidence.

[A]

I say right now, yo, nobody has been as fine as Janet Jackson. Pleasure Principle video.

[C]

It was revelatory.

[A]

You ever see that video? Y' all see that video? Y'? All two. Yeah, two different.

[B]

Let's see here.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, here come. Here come the Duke. The Duke about to say something. Semi. How do you feel about the warning?

[B]

I'm googling right here. See this Pleasure Principle video? Dana Jackson was seminal in my childhood. 10 years old, super Bowl, Carolina Panthers halftime show.

[C]

This.

[A]

This.

[B]

This Pleasure Principle video. Didn't Tiana Taylor do something?

[C]

Yeah, a lot of people, like, how to bit off that. Yeah, it was.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That video, like, shut down. People talked about it because she, like. Yeah, it was crazy. Yo, my aunties used to make me dance.

[A]

I never had. They never. That was never.

[B]

It's made up my aunties.

[C]

I'm not making that up. It was a core memory. I played this.

[A]

I wish Janet knew. I wish Janet knew how much she did for us.

[C]

Look. Look at.

[A]

Look at this Now. I'm watching it right now.

[C]

If video. If.

[A]

Do you think? Hey. Hey, Duke, you with it?

[B]

Yeah. Do you think Tom Segura could get with modern day Janet Jackson?

[A]

I don't know. Maybe.

[C]

What are we saying? What are we saying?

[B]

Sasking. What are you saying?

[C]

I mean, got here. Okay. This may be considered hate. And I just want to go ahead. Oh, boy. Put it out there.

[B]

If you're aware of it. It's definitely.

[C]

But even he would say this. She dated Jermaine Dupri. If she dated Jermaine Dupri, she probably would date Tom.

[A]

A fucking diss.

[C]

Like, straight up a diss.

[A]

Keep Freez. Keep a list of how many people Joel just disses in the show with no reason.

[C]

A fucking diss. A diss to JD A diss to

[A]

JD and then also a diss to Tom Segura as well.

[C]

Everybody. When it happened, and I'm not making this up, I assume y' all were there. They were like, damn. Janet Jackson was dating Jermaine Dupree. People were surprised. It was like when Julia Roberts was dating Loud Lovett. Man. You know, there's another explanation.

[A]

Just to let you know, I know J.D.

[C]

but it doesn't.

[A]

But shout out. To shout out to Jermaine Dupree. Just to let you know, I know J.D. great guy.

[C]

Love him.

[A]

When. When he sees this, he gonna have something for your ass.

[C]

Michael Bivens. My bad.

[A]

When he sees this, he gonna have something for your ass. He gonna be like, right? What? Like, okay, what is he gonna say?

[C]

Go ahead. I'm broke. I mean, I am.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[C]

I am. You know, that's true. What else?

[B]

I'm trying. I'm trying just to keep track of what's going on, who you've dissed so far this episode. So right now on the list that I have is you all want to

[C]

make it disses because you all like to keep up dissension.

[B]

We're trying to. We're trying to help you.

[C]

Hey, hey, hey.

[A]

Go to. Hey, dude.

[C]

I mean,

[A]

go to 418 in the pleasure Principle video.

[C]

I've never said about other People what Tate said about Jordan and, like, being mad that they were even in the same class.

[B]

Joel, you're deflecting. I have right now.

[C]

Tom people all the time.

[B]

Tom Segura, Jermaine Dupree, Lyle Lovett, and Todd McShay on the list right now.

[C]

Okay. I didn't dis. Ty McShay. Don't tell me.

[B]

Kind of Ty Simpson because he didn't say his nickname.

[C]

Game.

[B]

Yeah. Big daddy.

[C]

Okay. Yeah, sure.

[B]

It's a starting 5 of diss right there by Joel Anderson.

[A]

Oh, tough, tough. Super tough.

[B]

418. Yeah, I just got to 418.

[A]

You like. You like that? See what I'm saying? You're into it a little chocolate. Chocolate. I don't know chocolate, dude.

[B]

I don't know if Segura could get with this.

[C]

Yeah, dude.

[A]

Just a little chocolate. Nobody's asking you to be Robert De Niro.

[C]

Let's see. I mean, again, just a little. Just a little chocolate fun. But. Oh, I'm tired of her.

[A]

He did. That was. That was.

[C]

He didn't focus on that when you.

[B]

But, Joe, you remember our one disc we have?

[C]

No, that's.

[B]

Mine's Jordan. Yeah. Gloria Estefan. But you're. You just had five in two minutes. It's hard to keep up.

[C]

All this is. They weren't. All this is, though.

[B]

You must be the worst at apologizing ever.

[C]

No, I'm a great apologies.

[B]

That impossible.

[C]

You don't think you're wrong even then was struck by me apologizing to my son the other day. Remember I told y' all about that?

[A]

Yeah, you did.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

That's actually so for people that were wondering when the friend of mine that I was talking about that told me he apologized to his kid is Joe, which made me think about my father and, like, you know, it's great stuff like that. You're a very nice guy. Obviously, everyone loves you. But I'm saying you do have a problem with, like, sporadic, random insults for, like, no reason.

[C]

I don't. I would just. If the person comes to me and says, hey, Joe, I didn't like the way that that sounded. I would have to evaluate the comment in this context and be. And apologize or not. Okay. But I would give them a fair hearing.

[B]

This is on Jermaine Dupree to now reach out to you to convince you that you were wrong.

[C]

I'm not crazy. I was there in real time when people. When it popped up that Janet was dating Jermaine Dupri, and people were like, damn, for real?

[A]

Can I say something about that, though, real quick before we move on. So there might have been people that might have said that, but at the same time, man, J.D. is the man. And like, if you talk about being with something bad, I'm sure he's with a lot of fine shit over the course of his entire life. Super talented, started a whole music empire. I feel like those people are probably short sighted if they was looking at it like that.

[C]

No, but see, the thing is, it's one thing. And I can very much imagine that JD has had a very great private life with the ladies in Atlanta and elsewhere. Okay, I'm sure. Fantastic for JD I'm certain of that. But we're talking about Janet Jackson, bro. Like, there's like a. I. I'm just trying to think of, like, black. The black fine president of the United States, right? Like, once upon a time, it was Halle Berry. Like, I remember when we. I was growing up as a teenager and we were like, man, what's your top five? The finest girl, whatever. And you couldn't even. It was like, don't rank Halle Berry. That's a waste of time. Like, we're just like, we know that she would finish number one. Probably Janet Jackson was kind of like that for the years before that. We was just like, yo, like, we can all agree on Janet Jackson. Janet Jackson is fine. And if you tell me that Jermaine Dupri dated her, as opposed to, like, I don't know, man. Who would be a good. Yeah, I mean, Bobby. I mean, she did date Bobby Brown, but I just. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

But, you know, so what you're saying is Bobby Dupree.

[B]

Yeah. Who's finer?

[A]

Who's finding out? Bobby and Jermaine Dupree.

[C]

I could see why. Because Bobby Brown dated everybody. And like, he, he had his turn. Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe.

[A]

Who is finer?

[C]

Yeah, okay.

[A]

Out of Bobby Brown. Jermaine Dupree, probably because Bobby Brown.

[C]

Okay, thank you, Bobby Brown.

[A]

Okay, well, all right then.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Just say it. Because, like, what. That's basically what you. Because these two guys can accomplish and fame and all of that stuff is comparable. Basically saying that Bobby's finer than Jermaine, and that's cool. If you feel that way.

[C]

Don't act like this. I'm not crazy. This is gas.

[A]

I'm not acting like I'm crazy.

[C]

What I'm saying is when everybody was shocked that Jermaine Dupri was Jake James Jackson, and it's not that people were shocked that he was dating Somebody beautiful. They were shocked that the beautiful person that he was dating was Janet Jackson. You guys understand this concept? Joe, don't pretend that you don't.

[A]

Joe, I understand what you are saying. What I'm saying is it was shortsighted, okay? Women like Janet Jackson, they like guys like Jermaine Dupree.

[C]

But you're saying Janet Jackson like, she's a regular person. Dog. Like, she was a. She was a different category of woman.

[B]

But Jermaine Dupree is not a regular person either.

[C]

He's not man. He is kind of.

[B]

He's a mogul.

[C]

I mean, look, I'm not gonna. So, so what's so.

[A]

So, Joe, you're just talking about aesthetics.

[C]

There's a lot fewer Janet Jacksons in the world.

[A]

Okay, Can I say. Can we. Joe, you're just talking about. You're talking about aesthetics, right? You're talking about. This is basically aesthetic.

[C]

Well, no, also just like career. Like, Janet Jackson is like an icon. I mean, JD, very big.

[B]

JD's an iconic.

[C]

But Janet Jackson is Janet Jackson, bro.

[A]

I know. Okay, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this.

[C]

Janet Jackson and Jermaine Dupri were on stage and they were doing a show together. Whose name would be on top of the marquee? Would it be Janet Jackson or would it be Jermaine Dupree?

[B]

Obviously, Janet Jackson.

[A]

Obviously Janet.

[C]

You guys understand what I'm talking about?

[A]

Not really. Okay, so. So because, Because Mariah Carey married Tommy Mottola. Like, like, if you're talking about just beautiful people together, like, it. There's. What's the number one couple in black Hollywood right now? The number one couple.

[C]

The number one.

[A]

The number one couple in black Hollywood. This is so easy. I don't act like y' all don't know.

[B]

I mean, Beyonce.

[C]

I know you don't know Jay Z and Beyonce.

[A]

Jay Z and Beyonce.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, Like Jay Z.

[C]

You don't think Jay Z fine enough for her?

[A]

What I'm saying is a lot of people would say that, but that's not what she's looking at.

[C]

But you understand it, though. But you understand why people said it.

[A]

No, what I'm saying is that is shortsighted. Women like. Like women like that. Women like that are looking for so much more from a dude. I'm saying even then that was short sighted is what I'm saying.

[C]

If you say that about Solange, Kelly Rowland, Farah from the group Whatever, then. And they end up with JD or whatever, it's another disease, then you're. That makes sense.

[A]

You just did Solange.

[C]

Yeah, Kelly. But Beyonce saying

[A]

all of for no reason. She's somewhere, like, what the.

[C]

Did I go like Michael Jordan or some like that? You know what I'm saying? Like, that's what you're. You're kind of expecting, like, the top Hollywood leading man because this is the top woman or whatever. And it just. It just kind of surprising that when it's not just like. Like, when Namdi Asanwa dated Kerry Washington, it was like, kerry Washington is really famous. Really fine. But you kind of understand because he was an athlete, kind of a worldly dude.

[B]

He's also an actor now.

[A]

Wait, that's not. That's not what you. Yeah, it is what I mean, it's okay, Joel. You can just say it.

[C]

It is you.

[A]

No, what is Namdi Asomwa? Joel, just say it.

[C]

He fine.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

So why won't you say Big Daddy? Yeah, just call him Big Daddy.

[C]

We'll move on. I'm not gonna do that. Never tell y' all that Beyonce. And I've told this story before on the Internet. People never believe me when I tell it, but, you know, I saw Beyonce like, before, way before she was famous and she was Texas Relays. I'm not us. You. Look, man, I'm just. I'm putting. I'm so real about this

[B]

era of Beyonce. We're talking late 90s. Are we. Are you raising?

[C]

Yeah. No, this is before she's famous. Do you want me to tell the story?

[B]

Yeah, sure. Careful. Don't diss anybody.

[C]

Fall of 95, my. My best friend Matt Womble, I brought up on show the other week. We just friends. And he's like, yo, I'm. You gonna come to church with me? I stayed. I went out, hung out with him on a Saturday night on his side of town. So I spent the night. And he's like, yo, we're going to church. You come to church with us. His church was. Oh, man. Rudy Rasmus is the pastor. I'm not. I'm going. What? St. John's United Methodist in downtown Houston. And that's what, my friend.

[B]

Not Joel Osteen's church.

[C]

Not Joel Osteen's church. This is. This is in downtown, not too. Not too far from the Greyhound, and it's the old black church there. And my. My boy's family, you know, they were, like, very active in the church. Okay. All right, Billy. Anyway, don't distract me with like that. That's terrible.

[B]

Watch out for the blue dog.

[C]

Now, keep in mind, I'm 17 years old at the time, as I'm telling the story. Okay, okay. I'm 17. So anyway, we're getting ready. We get. We're going. We go to church. And he's like, yo, there's this girl group at our church that's going to sing today. And he's like, dog, they're going to be famous. And I'm like, whatever, dog. Everybody's church got somebody that can sing, that's supposed to be famous, you know, that's. You hear that shit every time you go to somebody's church when they do a solo. But real shit, the girls that came up on stage that day with Destiny's Child, but nobody didn't, you know, it was. I don't even think they were called girls time then. They may not been called Destiny's Child, but it was the four girls, the four original girls of Destiny's Child. And they were there, they performed a song. And then after the show, after the show, after the service, there. I can't remember if it was called God Pound a Gang, which was the name of the teen group at the time, because, you know, gangs. Gangs were a big deal in the 90s, of course. And God Pound was, you know, off the dog pound, which was popular at the time as well. So anyway, my boy is like, because he's active in church, we got to go there, all right? And so we walk in, we go upstairs, going to the thing, and I'm just standing there with my boy, whatever, and I look, I swear that this is true. I look and I'm like, God damn, this is a bad motherfucker looking at me. Who is that? And I'm like. And she was staring at me and kind of smiled and it was. It was 14 year old Beyonce, but she looked like 24 year old Beyonce. I didn't know how old she was. This is the person I just seen on stage because Billy was trying to do that weird shit in the comments.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Anyway, she stared at me, me, and I was like, I'm just like. And I'm thinking to myself, I'm just like. She was 14, I was 17. I was 17. I was 17. And I had Kenyan sadiq arms, you know what I'm saying? You know, I was. I was a bad dog when I was 17 years old. And so it's very reasonable that she would have looked at me. I mean, obviously, if she liked Jay Z, based on.

[B]

All right, Jay Z's on the list. We're at number nine for what do you think Beyonce would have amounted to. Had, you know, you guys gotten together,

[C]

I would have been scared. I don't think. I, I, She.

[A]

She. She left all them other in the dust, too. Like, she, she worked at the.

[C]

At a subway.

[A]

Beyonce tunnel vision. It was. There was no stopping Beyonce from becoming Beyonce.

[B]

Did she know at the time that you were going to be a state champion in a region of four?

[C]

No, but I probably look like I could have been one, you know? Okay.

[A]

Hey, this pro. I'm not. I. Look, my dad had a Halle Berry story.

[C]

Oh, word?

[A]

Yeah, my dad had a Halle Berry story. I'm not about, like, the whole time he would tell me, I'm not about to tell you it didn't happen. That's not my thing. Like, if it. My dad had a Halle Berry story. My dad said that he was. He was doing work. He was. We had a job that we was doing. It was at the SAG Aftra building, and he was. We had a job there. He was pouring a slab, doing a drop something he was doing. He had a construction job there. She was there. He said that she. That's what he said. Now, I'm not gonna be like, hey, I know guys that tell these stories. I'm not gonna be like, hey, that didn't happen. I'm like, hey, man, you know, next time, squeeze that trigger, though. That's all I would say. Next time, squeeze that trigger. That's all.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was 17. I was very nervous. Like, it just. I just. I would never. I mean, I would never have approached a girl. Like, it was very difficult for me to do that. Just very nervous, you know, I didn't. At the time, I didn't realize it was anxiety, but now I do. But anyway, the whole point of that is that. Yeah, man. I mean, she was looking at me, dog, and I was. I was kind of like, there's no way she's looking at me. You know what I'm saying? I'm like this bad motherfucker. She looked at me.

[A]

For real?

[C]

Yeah. It's weird, but I was 7. She didn't look 14, and I was 17.

[B]

That's not. That's not.

[A]

We would have been in high school. We would have been in high school. Is it illegal for to take?

[C]

It is. When they freshmen in high school, what do they say?

[A]

Please, bro. Please take.

[B]

I kind of want one more dis. I want to get the 10. Is it possible that people kind of like the Jermaine Dupree and Janet Jackson thing at the time were kind of, like, surprised because she was six years older than him.

[A]

Yeah, she was old. I mean, like, so, like, maybe that

[B]

at the time was like.

[C]

I mean, I think it was the whole thing. It was the whole shit, man.

[A]

I'm not, I'm not saying that. Just, just for the record, I'm not saying that we were there, y' all were, you know, in the light languages and, you know, I guess the Duke was, you know, trying to get out the vote for Bob Dole or whatever. But like, but, but, but I'm not saying that what he is saying is not true because people did say that. But what I'm saying is it was, it was short sighted. Like, when you look at it now.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Now being older, now being an older guy, I like women, like accomplished, talented, like all and that. And Jermaine Dupree is all of that.

[C]

He's all of that. But again, and I agree with that, man.

[A]

Oh, damn. I'm joking.

[C]

You know that women like anything. Like, you just never. Well, no, no, like, no, you just, you don't, you really don't know what a woman is going to like until they. You know what I mean? Like, you, you'll go really bad. You'll lose a lot of money trying to predict what a woman will like. But what I'm saying though is don't act like I think that's a dish. Lena Horn. I don't know. Pam Greer. There's like a pantheon of black women, black American women, and I'm not going to name them all because it's Joel

[B]

who's number one right now.

[C]

Number one right now.

[A]

Careful right now.

[C]

Care.

[A]

Don't. And don't. And don't. And don't say no fucking bullshit either.

[C]

So. Janae Desmond Harris.

[A]

See, it's the fucking. Don't, don't, don't do that. By the way, I just looked up Lena Horne's husband and it's so fucking funny that she was married to a guy named Lenny Hayton. He's hot. And he don't really look like very much. Shout out to him. Now this is. They got married in 1947.

[C]

That's the year my dad was born, bro.

[A]

Wow, that's crazy, right? Lena was up there, man.

[C]

Lena. Cause the thing was, when Lena showed up on the Cosby show, and it was just like that older lady, you know, that when she was younger that she used to be beautiful, but, you know, like, it was something like that. And how do we think that's a diss.

[B]

She used to be beautiful. She was beautiful. So she's Beautiful.

[A]

Well, yeah.

[B]

You know what I thought so Todd. Todd thinks that Ty Big Daddy Simpson is close to Fernando Mendoza.

[C]

He does.

[B]

Is what the point of this was.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Thank you, Billy.

[C]

To get back conversation than you think. And it's much closer than Ty Simpson and whoever the third prospect ends up being.

[B]

And Joel, your third prospect would be Taylor Green.

[C]

Correct. Well, so you know what? I'm thinking about that big board now and Garrett Nussmeier, who I had number three previously over Taylor Green. I don't know, man. I might be inclined to move Taylor Green up above Garrett Nussmeier because I kind of know what I'm going to get with Garrett, you know what I'm saying? Like he's.

[A]

And the upside on Green is you

[C]

feel like Green is crazy. Crazy.

[B]

So. So Joel's updated big board of quarterbacks. Mendoza's still number one.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But Ty Simpson inching closer at number two.

[C]

Number two closer.

[B]

Number number three, Taylor Green.

[C]

Number.

[B]

Number number four, Garrett Nussmeier. Number five. Who's number five?

[C]

Well, you know, I'm kind of going back and forth on this. It could be Carson Beck. He looked pretty good. Big bigger at the combine. But I mean, you could getting booed

[B]

at the combine, by the way, by the Notre Dame fans.

[C]

I mean, they blamed.

[B]

Well, they. No, they blamed Indiana fans. It was Notre Dame fans that were booing him.

[C]

Oh, is that what it was? Okay. Yeah.

[A]

Damn.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

But number five against the booze.

[C]

Number five against the booze. He looked pretty good. You know, I mean, I think, you know what you're going to get with him. If, I mean, again, you could be number the fifth best quarterback in this draft and get picked in the third, fourth round. You know, I mean, like, that's just kind of what this class is for. The people I've been talking to.

[B]

How many. How many. How many quarterbacks go in the first round, Joel, according to your source?

[C]

I think. I think no matter what, I think it's going to be two. I think it's going to be two. I think you'll get two.

[A]

So. So anything else would be a huge reach.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Mendoza and Simpson. Okay, cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because somebody's going to need a quarterback bad enough. You could imagine them, you know, picking them up in the back half of the first round, something like that.

[B]

We think Mendoza goes one, obviously, and then Ty Simpson. We're thinking like 15 range. 15 to 25 range somewhere in there.

[C]

25 range. Yeah.

[B]

Okay, so Mac Jones is sort of where he ends up.

[C]

Somewhere in there. That's About. Right, that's about that. Actually, it's funny because I've been seeing that comp. Like even just, you know, and I'm just like. Well, I know they're both former Alabama quarterbacks of a similar size or whatever. And you know, I mean, when Matt Jones came out, he was a very solid prospect. He was a first round draft pick. But you know, theoretically the case with Todd Simpson is that there's a lot more upside. He's only played in 15. 15 games, something like that. So, you know, we can get a chance to see. Maybe he's a. There's a lot more there that we haven't seen. They haven't tapped into it. He might get better.

[B]

I've won this award, so I can say this, but Ty Simpson, Mac Jones, they're both coaches award guys. You know what I mean? Like they're, they're the guys that like, they're not the MVPs of the team, but they win the coaches award, you know, that's what they are. They try hard.

[C]

Yeah, you want try? You don't. You don't mean that as a, as a dis. Do you?

[B]

No, it's not a diss. I. Look, I won the award. I can say it. I tried hard and you know, I won the coach's award once upon a time back in 10th grade. Shout out. But then, you know, you move into MVP territory. That's what you gotta do. You gotta climb the ranks.

[C]

Yeah, that's right. I mean, yeah, the thing is, it's like, you know, they'll probably be fine.

[A]

Martha listens to her favorite band all the time. In the car, gym, even sleeping. So when they finally went on tour, Martha bundled her flight and hotel on Expedia to see them live. She saved so much she got her seat clothes. Enough to actually see and hear them. Sort of. You were made to scream from the front row. We were made to quietly save you more Expedia made to travel. Savings vary and subject to availability. Flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.

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Adorable.

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Also expensive. Sell their pint sized pieces on Depop and list them in minutes with no selling fees. Because somewhere a dad refuses to pay

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Start selling on Depop where taste recognizes taste.

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[C]

See website for details.

[B]

They say you should learn something new every day.

[A]

Like how you should only drink Jagermeister at 0 degrees Fahrenheit, ice cold, like those frozen cavemen they find.

[C]

Which makes you wonder, what would a

[A]

caveman think of Jagermeister? Well, if you served it warm, he'd probably throw it in your face, say,

[C]

unga bunga and storm off.

[B]

And nobody wants that.

[A]

So drink it cold or not at all. Jagermeister.

[C]

Damn, that's cold.

[A]

Drink responsibly. Jagermeister liqueur, 35% alcohol by volume, imported by Mast. Jagermeister US White Plains, New York.

[C]

With those quarterbacks, right, like, you just, you know that they're not going to go out there and go crazy.

[A]

What's the best value at quarterback in the draft in terms of a guy who maybe didn't. Doesn't have the tape based upon the year that he had last year or a year before, but that still has an athletic upside and you believe it. Just for everyone, is there a guy out there? Is that Drew Aller? Is there any other. Is that Garrett Nussmeier? Is that any of those guys? Like, what, what, what's. What's going to be the sneaky guy that if he gets in the right situation, he can have a great long career?

[C]

Well, so I was, you know, I mean, I don't think this is actually going to happen, but, man. Y' all know Haynes King ran a 4, 4, 6.

[A]

That's impressive. He can go, though.

[C]

Yeah, man. And I just. He got better every year in college. I still don't think he's quite done. Like, I mean, he got beat the hell up in college, right? So maybe, you know, I don't know if that's shortened his potential or whatever, but him running that 446 was really important to me. Cause I'm just like, oh, okay. Like, he's a. He actually is a special athlete. He's big.

[A]

I think that. I think him running that 4, 4, 6 is useless and meaningless.

[C]

Well, I mean, I think it's.

[A]

I don't think. I mean, he could. He, he can run. We. We know that he can run. I don't think he's running. What he really needed to do was be able to show his arm talent, anticipatory throws, and that he can win a game from the pocket.

[C]

But everybody already, Everybody already knows those are the demerits against his game. So at least he showed that he's an elite athlete. That's what I'm saying, is that. Okay, am I concerned that he's just a plugger? So he's a plugger, but he's he actually shows that he's explosive.

[A]

So you think this is an interesting take and I'm, I'm engaging with it sincerely, I'm not joking. You think it's more important in the combine to reinforce what people know you can do than to show them things that they didn't think that you can do?

[C]

No, not reinforce. To, to, to, to surprise people that. So, like, what's the example I'm looking for? For like you can look at somebody and draw a lot of presumptions about Hayes King and his athleticism. We know that he was a runner, right. As a quarterback, but I don't think anybody thought that he was a burner. Right? Nobody. I don't think anybody looked at Haynes king and said 4, 4, 6. But that's like the fact that he could run, that he was mobile, could get around was a bonus for him. And it was like, it was a big part of the appeal. And now that I know he runs four, four, six, I'm like, okay, like any of the other red flags I had, I already was going to have. But at least I know that he's an elite athlete and I like whatever. There's things that Haynes King, that coaches might like that, you know, he played, he had a lot, he has a lot of starts, he's a smart kid, he's very tough, you know, whatever. And then they might just be willing to work with him more. I'm not saying that I think Haynes King is going to be a great NFL quarterback, but I think that 4, 4, 6 did something for him that I think people are kind of under looking in a way.

[A]

Yeah. I think it shows that there's, there could be some dynamic ability there.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But I also think that it shows it that way. I think his ability and these athletic numbers kind of put him in more of a taste. Some hill category.

[C]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

Like somebody that can kind of fill that role. Because if he is going to be taken seriously as a qb, then the questions that he has to answer, and maybe he'll answer these as pro day or you know, other things, he's had a chance to answer them on tape, they all have to do with quarterbacking because the limitations that he has cost you games if you're going to make him your quarterback. The things that he can't do right now are things that stall your offense or kill drives or lead to turnovers. You know what I mean? So.

[C]

No, that's, that's real. I mean the thing is though, I mean he had better passing stats this year than Taylor Green. You know what I mean? Like, he's not.

[A]

You're the Taylor Green guy. Like, you know what I mean? Like Taylor Green.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. But, but Taylor is such a special athlete, it's just going to make people go crazy. I think that there's limited value to that, like as a foot. If I was picking a team, I don't think I would take Taylor Green, right? Because I'd like, I just, I mean, there's nowhere to put him. I'm sorry. But Haynes King, if you inclined to like Haynes King. And I don't think Haynes King is going to be a great NFL quarterback, but I could see how he might stick around based on the sort of, the taste, some Hill comparison you made. The people will be like, he's smart, he's athletic, we can use him for gadget shit. And maybe he will develop as a passer someday. Like just being around the game and you know, getting a chance to practice, you know, doing NFL practicing or whatever and drilling. So yeah, man, I, I thought that was kind of impressive. I don't know if that makes him. That puts him over Carson Beck on my list. But I was just like, huh. I never even thought about him getting drafted, to be honest. And I'm like, there's a proposition there.

[A]

Now there's enough of an athletic basement, athletic floor there for somebody to be like, that's an interesting guy for me to take. And around five or whenever he's gonna go, yeah, I see what you're.

[B]

I like it. A couple other names. Kate Clubnik you could throw out. Drew Aller, like you mentioned. Sawyer Robertson from Baylor, a big fan of Sawyer. I think he's the kind of guy that's under the radar a little bit. And then the Yukon qb, Joe Finano, you know that he just feels like a guy that like, just comes into a game for the Cardinals and you're like, oh, yeah, that's right. He got a shot. He's 25 years old, a little bit older. So that's another name you could throw out there. But let's get to Fernando Mendoza because this was kind of an interesting thing. So he was asked his most bizarre question. I think it was Kay Adams that asked him this. And you know, everybody gives K a little bit of insight they might not give to others. She's the Taylor Rooks of football. He said it was, quote, hey, maybe you should get arrested, he said. I was a little confused. But then it was, you know, like it just kind of slid right on by. So that's a little bit interesting that basically they think he has such a cookie cutter image that NFL team, during one of his interviews, said that he should get arrested. Kind of like the Scotty Scheffler in golf when he got arrested, changed his image a little bit. Do you. Do you think that Mendoza needs a little bit of, you know, I don't know, something extra? I found that very strange for someone to say that to him, you know.

[A]

Oh, go ahead, Joe. My bad.

[C]

Oh, no, no, go ahead. Because I was gonna say I thought it was a joke, like, get arrested so you can fall down the draft board. We can get you down.

[B]

Oh, okay. So maybe that. That would be a better read. I thought they were just saying he's a little bit too much of Mr. Nice Guy.

[C]

It could be that, too.

[A]

Yeah. I. You know, I don't know. I think people are kind of looking for reasons not to like Mendoza right now or just to have a conversation around Mendoza right now because he's not a can't miss while you prospect.

[B]

Didn't throw at the combine either.

[A]

Talk about anything else with quarterbacks, even though quarterback is legitimately the most volatile and least certain position on the field. Like, we. We can just litter the podcast with names of can't miss quarterbacks that in fact missed. Right? We can litter the podcast with them. Right. As we're talking about this right now, Kyler Murray is going to be looking for a new home. And this is a guy that had great tape. Now, he's small, you know, so there were things that people talked about, but this guy had great tape housing. Trophy winner, the whole nine. Right?

[B]

Number one pick.

[A]

Number one pick, quarterback. Yeah, tough guy, tough position to make determinations on. But they still want sure things. And what doesn't make you a sure thing as a quarterback is so interesting to me. It's such an interesting thing. Your tape and what you did on the field doesn't make you a sure thing. So the fact that what you need is a guy that in a big game, keeps his head enough to make a big play. Like, think about Mendoza. And I'm not caping for Mendoza. I'm just saying that it's just an interesting evaluation of the position and like, of the position's place in culture. Every time they needed a big play, he made it. Like, essentially, that's what you want from your quarterback. You want a quarterback to keep you on schedule. You want a quarterback that can make plays that nobody else can make. You want a quarterback that can win a game with his arm. He didn't win games with his arm by making dynamic, miraculous plays that nobody else can make. He won plays with his arms, with his arm, by making plays that he had to make. Making plays to get his offense out of trouble, Hitting that back shoulder with accuracy, on time, standing in the pocket, getting beat up. He did all of that. And that is just not enough. And I'm not bemoaning this. I'm saying that's not enough to make you a sure thing at that position. People want to know that you can layer a ball 50 yards down the field with somebody trying to come. That's what they want and that's what wows them, particularly in this part of the process.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, they want. They want a big. They want a Josh Allen. You know what I'm saying? They want somebody that looks different and it's big and fast and strong. You can get the ball to all points of the field. And that's not who Fernando is. I think it's hard to believe that the Raiders would pass on him. But I mean, it doesn't hurt for the Raiders to be like, I don't know about that. Fernando Mendoza and see if somebody will give them something crazy for the people pick. Right? Like if.

[B]

If you're like the jets.

[C]

Right, like the jets or somebody that is desperate to have Fernando Mendoza. And you could say, well, look, we could get. We could get Kyle on the cheat, you know, I'm saying, or get some sort of veteran and then spend our money elsewhere and. And you. And use one of these top picks, you know, some other position in need. So, I mean, the Raider, it is in the interest of the Raiders to kind of keep that going. And also, man, the NFL is a TV show, man. You know, we know that there's really not any drama. Fernando does probably gonna go number one and it's gonna happen on that day. But it's in the interest of everyone to pretend that this is not a done deal yet. I mean, and also for the TV part of it, because it keeps us all clicking and watching stuff and, you know, consuming that sort of content.

[B]

It's also, they have Ash and Genti already. So, like, if Jeremiah Love is the presumed number one pick or number one player on the board, they're not going to take him number one. But if they traded down, it would presumably be for someone like Jeremiah Love and they already have Ashton Jinty. So, I mean, that's the other part of it too, where it does feel like quarterback is their choice there. And that's what they're going to end up doing. But we mentioned some other names to throw out there. I wanted to throw out a few more that just had good combines that, you know, I've seen talked and thrown out there. Chris Brazil from Tennessee ran a 4,376-foot-4. Obviously, you know, we've seen some guys that run great 40 times that don't turn into great receivers. But Brazil had some big moments in Tennessee, so I wanted to give him some love. Kaden Proctor, tackle from Alabama I feel like he almost became a little bit underrated as the season wore on a little bit as we talked bad about Alabama. So Kaden Proctor wanted to throw his name out there. A guy that I know, you know well. Bud Clark, safety, TCU Joel that's right.

[C]

4, 4, 1. He had a great, he had a great Senior bowl, too. Like, I mean, they could. He was one of those people that people talked about every day. And so, yeah, for him to come out there, man. Did you know that two of the five fastest linebackers at the come down from tcu, too. Did y' all know that? Yeah.

[A]

All right. Getting. Getting to it. Tcu, the Horn Frogs getting horny.

[C]

Yeah. Caleb.

[B]

So you're blaming Sonny Dykes. You're saying he didn't maximize.

[C]

I mean, I would one could reasonably say, man, oh, that talent nine and four, huh? Okay. You know, you could re. You could re. Reasonably look at that. And actually, you know what? I was thinking of something, but I'm just go ahead and get out there. I mean, Van, you was talking about how tape doesn't tell. I'm just going to be argumentative because I just wanted just a quick note.

[B]

Is this another diss?

[C]

It's not a dis, but tape don't tell you everything. Tape don't tell you the whole contest. It doesn't tell you if you have the better, much better offensive line, the much better receiver. That's what everything people are looking for. So it's like he can do all. He can have all the accomplishments or whatever and thrive. He had a great year, an unparalleled year. Nobody has done what Fernando Mendoza did year. Nobody's trying to take that from him. But it is reasonable to look at that and be like, I just wonder if he's all that great, if how much of it. How much of it was actually him. Like, he, he, he was a big part of it. But I mean, he's got a great offensive lineman. He had three, three receivers that are going to get drafted, two running backs that are going to get drafted A decided coaching advantage. And his team in terms of talent was better than, you know, I mean, it's college football. So they probably were better than 8, 9, 10 of the teams on the field. And the other others were toss up. So they would decide at underdogs. But again, like, you could look at all that and be like, well, he had a lot of things that went well for him as well, and a lot of quarterbacks could have done what Fernando Mendoza did last year.

[A]

Yeah, I never liked that argument because, like, I don't like couldas. I like what happened.

[C]

Right.

[A]

So I don't. So it's you. Obviously, if you put Fernando Mendoza in a situation to where he has just the 2000 ravens. Okay. A situation like that, if you put him in that type of situation, then I'm like, okay, cool. You're going to hand the ball off to a guy that's going to run for like 2,000 yards, the defense is going to hold every single person, every single team to 11 points a game, and you're going to throw for 11 touchdowns and seven interceptions.

[C]

Right.

[A]

I get that. I completely get it. That's not what happened, though. What happened, though, is there were times when all of that stuff was in the balance and he had to go out and make plays. And when it was time to make plays, they were confident enough to put the ball in his hands and then he delivered. So I'm not saying that what you're saying isn't a consideration with any quarterback. And I hope that people understand this. People are looking at that position now to consistently defeat flaws in team building. And we're seeing over and over and over again that even with the very best quarterbacks at any level that you're talking about, that for your quarterback to defeat flaws in your team building, they almost have to be perfect.

[C]

Right.

[A]

They almost have to be perfect. We're seeing Mahomes struggle with flawed teams. We're seeing Josh Allen struggle with flawed teams. Lamar Jackson. We're seeing these quarterbacks that are truly dynamic. Yeah. Joe Burrow, truly dynamic. Not be able to elevate a team

[C]

out of the floor. Nobody thought Matt Stafford was as great as he was until he went to the Rams.

[A]

Until he went to the Rams. And you knew that he had it as far as like, the physical gifts. Right?

[C]

Right.

[B]

Sam Darnold, 4,000 yards.

[A]

Yeah. You knew that he had it. So what I'm saying is right now there might be a way to look at this, and this is not saying that what you're saying isn't true. There might be a way of looking at this and saying, do we have a guy that if we build a competent team, we can depend on to make plays, keep us on schedule, and actually go out with his right arm and come up big in clutch moments? Because what you don't know until they've proven it is if they can do that. What you might know that they can run away from a defense. You might know that they can throw a deep ball in the first quarter. But what you don't know is whether or not they can do it in the fourth quarter. You don't know how they're going to show up in those moments on the biggest stage until they've demonstrated that they can done it. And we've had this conversation about quarterbacks time after time, generation over generation, and it seems like we still fall into the same pattern every single time. It's time to evaluate them.

[C]

That's true. Yeah.

[B]

And Sam Darnold just proved us wrong, right? I mean, everyone already wrote him off, and then he just showed us he can do different, especially in the NFC championship game.

[C]

Being quarterback is some weird shit, man. I mean. I mean, the thing is, is that I've seen a lot of great quarterbacks, guys that I thought they were going to be perfect, and they flop in the league. And the guys that, you know, I saw Brock Purdy play in college, and I was grateful when he would drop back to throw the ball. You know what I mean? I was like, man, thank God, Purdy throwing it to us today. And.

[B]

But now he's called Burt Purdy.

[C]

Does Brock Purdy. What did I say? Burt Purdy. That's probably what he should have been called. But. But no, but he's. He's an NFL star now. And so we just don't know. There's just too many random things. So you. I. I don't think it's smart to ever make any definitive case against a quarterback ever. Because you just don't know. Like, it's really dependent upon system. And some. Some coaches will scheme it up for you and get it right. Sometimes you'll be surrounded by great defense. Sometimes, yeah, you'll have a, you know, whatever, you'll.

[B]

And confidence matters so much. You know, that's the other part. And then once you get the reps, confidence quit.

[C]

You'll be. Yeah, and once you get rips, people will trust you'll do well. People will trust you and you get to stick around the league. So there's just no way really to know. And I should point out Fernando Mendoza Number one on the. Joel, Big board.

[B]

Number one on the big board. There you go. Any parting shots on the combine? Any last thoughts that we didn't hit? Anybody else that stood out to you guys? Van, Anything else?

[A]

Nah, Like, I think as a watcher of athletic spectacle, this was one of my favorite combines ever. They were, they were, I was kept waiting for somebody to go out there and jump 50. They was going crazy. Like this was one of the combines. So I was like, God damn, they getting to it, man?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Really good class.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Joel, anything else? Any other.

[C]

You know, the thing that I always really get almost sentimental and even sometimes emotional about at the NFL combat is when like, you know, a young man has changed his life. And so I just remember when Mike Washington, the running back from Arkansas, he ran a 4, 3, 3, the fastest running back at the combine. I think he also averted like 39 and I think his broad jump was like 10, 8. He had an amazing combine. He changed his life. And I mean after he ran his 40, NFL Network caught him on the bench crying. He was talking to somebody and I think NFL Network reported, I think was a Stacey Dales, whatever, said I'm so emotional. I work my whole life for this and I'm just like, yo, how can you not love that, man? That brother changed. He was at Buffalo, he was a two star recruit out of some this greater Syracuse area. Played at Buffalo for three years a year at New Mexico State. You imagine transferring from New Mexico State last year and he probably thinking, man, I only got one more year of this, bro. You know, I'm playing in Arkansas, who knows what's going to happen? And then all of a sudden he's the fastest running back at the combine and he knows that this is, he's going to get drafted, it's going to change his life. And so I always just find that to be beautiful, man. I love that's the part about the combine too, is that a lot of times people get to make their whole life, their whole lives. They change the whole trajectory of their family in a weekend. And I love that.

[B]

Yeah. And it is all the conversation about the running backs is about price and love the two Notre Dame backs. And now it feels like he's in the mix to even go as the second running back off the board. So.

[C]

And he's got tape. I mean he ran over a thousand

[B]

yards last year, so yeah, 6.4 yards per carry. That was top 20 in the country. So a lot of good things. And I like that. I like when we get Those stories where guys break through and make a name for themselves. So shout out to everybody in Indy who covered it. Shout out to Todd McShay did a great job out there breaking it all down. So we appreciate that. Let's shout out Mitch as well. Also, the fantasy football guys are out there in Indiana.

[A]

Oh, shout out to them.

[B]

I saw they did a nice little crossover episode. I was like, man, I wish we could do that.

[A]

Shay. They. Don't you guys just understand we keep saying this. We are the podcast that has to get it out the mud. When you guys are supporting tailgate, just know that you're supporting the under guy. Underdog little guys.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

Of.

[A]

Of the ringer.

[B]

We're on YouTube. We're people.

[C]

I mean, we couldn't even get our Octavia Spencer interview right.

[A]

You know, is us, the Duke and Fres and, you know, a bunch of other people. Donnie and Alicia.

[B]

Donnie, shout out Alicia.

[C]

Donnie, think about our show. Like, how we.

[A]

We getting it out the mud, man. Like, we getting it out the mud. We. We get no commercial go out.

[C]

How many people have come to us talking about, hey, man, we like you to do something. You never hear back from them again. And I don't know what it is.

[B]

Joel. I think they hear Joel dissing Joel.

[C]

We don't know what it is. I'm not going to talk about it.

[A]

But everybody, I tell you what, everybody loves the show, though. We get so much love. We get a lot of love inside the building. But we, you know, we, we, we. We don't get sent to the national championship game.

[C]

We don't get. I mean, I, I, I, I could have gone, but y' all had a problem. But I guess that speaks to the show. Love don't.

[A]

See what I'm saying? See, See what I'm saying? That's a dis. Like, add that to the thing, Billy. Add that to the thing. That's a dis.

[B]

I think it's the 12 disciples. He's got 12 disses that are out there.

[C]

I mean, that was just facts. That's facts, Joel.

[A]

You gotta work.

[B]

You gotta work on your politicking a little bit, you know?

[C]

Wait, oh, so we can get. So what? So we can get Tom Segura on the show.

[B]

Yeah, so we can get a little something. You know, we need a little bit of something. A couple quick headlines in college football before we get out of here. Mississippi Nil tax breaks. They're trying to keep up with the states with no state income tax, and they just passed in their House a bill that will make it so all of the NIL payments will be tax free. So big for Ole Miss, big for Mississippi State. And this is probably going to lend itself to some more litigation down the line. Oklahoma, apparently going to try to adopt something with the nil. Now, you got teachers, firefighters, police officers, all types of people upset about this tax free. Joel, you seem like you got some thoughts on this.

[C]

I know Van warned us about talking about politics before the show, but

[B]

this number 13.

[C]

Yeah, but here. But, I mean, this is not a deep thought at all. But I. Are y' all surprised that Mississippi has income tax? I'm like, what? Why haven't they. Why haven't they gotten rid of it already? Like, them in Alabama? Whenever I hear about a set, I'm just like, man, they must have really chopped up their other budgets in some sort of way. Like. And obviously Mississippi is having some sort of miracle and literacy down there that, you know, we'll see how that holds up over the long term. But whatever.

[A]

They're really proud of it. But there are a lot of people. There are a lot of people on the ground that are working really, really hard against the state's literacy issues.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. All right.

[A]

Some innovative things.

[C]

Yeah, I'm. I'm excited, but I just. I'm just surprised whenever I hear about these Southern states that don't that. That have income tax. I'm like, what has happened? Like, did the Republicans just get control of that state house recently or something and got around to it? Because I just. I'm. I'm just kind of surprised that Mississippi didn't already have that going, by the way. But, yeah, of course they have to do it. They have to. It's funny. Ole misses history because they're the black people of college football. They got to work twice as hard to go half as far. Okay. They got to convince people to come to Mississippi and play there in spite of, you know, traditional hurdles, whatever. I mean, the story. The story that you can tell of Ole Miss that says it in a nutshell is that their coach, after the best season in school history, left to go to his rival that he beat earlier that year. Like, if you want to sum up, like, what the problem is at Ole Miss and the difficulty they have sustaining excellence. That's part of it. And so, yeah, you got to. You've got. When Florida is over here and University Texas over here in Florida State's over here, saying, man, you can. We're going to give you the same contract, but you're not Going to have to pay that.

[B]

Tennessee as well, no income tax.

[C]

They got to do it to be complete competitive if that's what they want to do.

[B]

Especially with Vanderbilt now in the mix as well with the nil stuff. So, I mean. Yeah, it makes sense. And right now it's a 4% tax

[C]

on anyone making Arkansas got the Tyson Foods deal. You know what I'm saying? Everybody's trying to step up and get real.

[B]

All right, let's wrap it up. No big van on campus, right?

[A]

Not on campus. I don't go to track meets.

[B]

You're not a Blue Dot.

[A]

I don't go to track meets. Like, you know, their college doing their thing, doing all that kind of crazy ass.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

That's not what. What, like you go to a college football game. Go to college football games. Okay, but I know what I don't.

[C]

College sports event.

[A]

You know what I don't do? Sit in the student section, which is.

[C]

That's what I'm about to do. Is there a student. Oh, well, I. No. I don't know what the stands are like at Texas Relays anymore, but.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Just saying, you know, just we. Because also what we talked about enjoying about the Texas Relays in our younger days.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Is when you connect the two things. But it is what it is.

[C]

But I said. But I talked about going to Texas Relays when I was 26 years old. That's the last time.

[A]

27 is what you said. You just took a year off.

[C]

No, no, no, no.

[B]

It started at 28.

[C]

Okay. You know what happened?

[A]

Actually, 28. Like, you. Like, now you're losing years because you know how it sounded. It's a bunch of bullshit lies.

[C]

No, stop it. It was 2006. I was trying to piece together where I lived and how I got there, basically. So anyway, yeah, it was 2006, I feel. I guess I flew from Austin to Shreveport. To Shreveport. That doesn't sound right, but I. I can't imagine. I don't think I've ever made that drive, so I must have.

[A]

You know what? I'll be honest with you before we go. I might like college football final more than game day. Like right now.

[C]

Damn.

[A]

When I look at college football final right now, because I'm looking at it, it's a choice.

[C]

That's a dis. Did I ever tell y'? All? My first day at espn, it was like a scene out of some shit, bro. I'm going through the cafeteria, coming out with my boys. I got my, you know, my food and I'M looking right over here. And it was, I swear to God, it was Joey Galloway and Desmond Howard arguing about J.T. berry. And I just remember Desmond Howard getting up. My first time meeting him. He's like, you think J.T. barrett's that good? You really think T. Barrett's that good? It was just funny. I mean, the Michigan and Ohio State guy dissing each other. It was funny. I was just like, damn, ESPN captivity really is like they say it is. You just run Bob Lee. Just chilling in that.

[A]

What kind of, what kind of trades did y' all have?

[C]

We had the big, I think I'm pretty sure they were beige. You know, the big, the big wide

[A]

captier trays that y' all really had those.

[C]

I think I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Because you had to. I had to carry my food out with something. Yeah. So it had to be.

[B]

Yeah, they had that J. Billis commercial where he's going through the line at the cafeteria.

[C]

It's really like that, yo, like stage still future CBS News host or whatever. Coming, coming through the hall, whatever. The young lady that covers the NBA sideline reporter, chat chat. Cassidy Hubbard. Just see. Just all these people passing through. Scottie Pippen, Randy Moss. It was, it's just shocking when you're on campus there, but it really is like that interesting.

[A]

Was the food good?

[C]

Oh, man. The breakfast, it was good. Oh, man. Yeah, bro. Yeah, that's, that's one of the things I miss about ESPN the most. That cafeteria was unbelievable. Incredible.

[B]

So that's why Joel gets so upset about the lack of food when he's out here. Now we understand he wants that cafeteria.

[C]

Oh, I mean, it's just. Yeah, it's kind of weird, but whatever. I mean, you know, I, it's a different time, man. ESPN had a lot of money.

[A]

So it says right here before you go, the ESPN cafeteria. Primarily located at the Bristol, Connecticut headquarters, it's managed by Flick Hospitality Group. It offers diverse, high quality dining options for employees including Starbucks salad bar, pizza station and daily specials like Taco Thursday. The cafe features a wellness fits program and allows mobile ordering via Keter tracks. Okay, it's, it's a thing. It's a, it's a whole deal that they, that they, they love it there. They have the Cafe Mondays, Starbucks Mondays. They have all kinds of. They're very, they're very, very, very proud of this, bro.

[C]

I'm, it's just, it's shock because then you'll be, you'll be standing behind and lying behind Mack Brown to get to, to and you were talking about, man, what the omelets look like. Man, you gonna get an omelette. You know that kind of flicking.

[A]

Bristol.

[C]

It's off the chain. Bristol sucks. It's not a cool place. I don't like it. I live everywhere in America except Bristol, basically. Oh, Billy, what do you.

[B]

I mean, that's been sort of their problem as far as recruitment, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Move to Los Angeles.

[C]

There's some other places I don't like in the country, but I don't. There's no need bringing them up here.

[A]

So that counts as a diss towards Bristol. Right?

[B]

I wrote that down. Yeah. That's gonna try to wrap up your. That's a lot of people.

[C]

Not a surprise. Not a surprise, everybody.

[B]

Billy, can we do a final tally of everyone that Joel dissed in this episode? I don't think that there. I, I, I probably missed some. I have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. I have 11 right now.

[C]

Okay, give me the 11.

[B]

Tom Segura, Jermaine Dupree, Lyle Lovett, Todd McShay, Solange, Kelly Farah, Destiny's Child.

[C]

Oh, you can't. You counted Destiny group member by group member.

[B]

No, you said their name specifically.

[A]

You dissed him.

[C]

You should count Destiny Child as one person. That's. You said.

[A]

You, you said. You, you said. I'm sorry, I apologize.

[B]

You said, you said each one individual

[A]

said their individual names. Why would you try to group them now like you said their individual names? See, this my problem. Just stand on it. You know how much Pharaoh has been through

[B]

12 disciples.

[C]

You were the son stats keeper at Salt Lake City for years. All right.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

All right.

[B]

That a John Stockton dis.

[C]

Yeah, well, you know, you know the story about it. I wouldn't, I wouldn't put that there

[B]

because it's a. John Stockton did not have this record.

[C]

You know what I'm talking about, right. That they said that the, the scorekeeper admitted or they found out that for years he was inflating his assistance.

[B]

Well, the big conspiracy is that if you got fouled on a free throw, he would give you, if you made the free throws, he would give you an, an assist. That was the big thing with stock.

[C]

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So.

[B]

And I think that's actually fair. I think that's what it should be. You know, you make a good pass, somebody gets fouled and you get the two free throws giving them an assist. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of with it. Thanks to everybody for watching Rigor tailgate We appreciate you being a part of the show. Fun show today. Glad we got to talk about a combine. Go follow Todd McShay breaking down everything on the draft. And if you don't believe Todd McShay, you can always listen to Joel Anderson on this show and he will give you his big boy.

[C]

I'll have a big boy. We can. I'll roll out next.

[B]

He'll be putting out all of his tape crunches very soon. Thanks everybody for tuning in and we will see you all next week. Must be 21 or older in President. Select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino are 18 and older and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.orgchatinconnecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org In Maryland, Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE and Y, or text HOPENY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.

[C]

Close your eyes. Exhale, feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry

[B]

that I wouldn't get my new contacts

[C]

in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast.

[B]

And breathe.

[A]

Oh, sorry.

[C]

I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order.

[A]

Oh, sorry.

[C]

Namaste.

[B]

Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts.