Brendan Sorsby’s Lawyer, Jeffrey Kessler, Joins. Plus, Collective Bargaining in CFB

Summary

Ringer Tailgate: Brendan Sorsby’s Lawyer, Jeffrey Kessler, Joins. Plus, Collective Bargaining in CFB

Podcast: Ringer Tailgate
Date: June 17, 2026
Hosts: Tate Frazier, Van Lathan, Joel Anderson
Special Guest: Jeffrey Kessler (sports attorney)
Theme: Exploring the fallout of the Brendan Sorsby saga, the NCAA's approach to gambling, and the future of college football governance, collective bargaining, and more.

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the legal and cultural fallout from the Brendan Sorsby gambling case, with Jeffrey Kessler (Sorsby’s attorney and prominent figure in sports law) offering behind-the-scenes clarity. The crew also dives into collective bargaining prospects in college football and riffs on the state of the sport amid ongoing change. Expect sharp analysis, raucous debate, signature banter, and a no-holds-barred interview.

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Major Segments & Timestamps

• [11:48] Main Story - Brendan Sorsby/Texas Tech Split
• [32:46] Interview with Jeffrey Kessler (Sorsby's Lawyer)
• [84:29] CFB Headlines: Coaching Moves, NIL, and the Collective Bargaining Future
• [110:33] NBA Sidebar - Jalen Brunson & The Salary Cap Debate

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Brendan Sorsby / Texas Tech Gambling Saga ([11:48–32:45])

• Sorsby’s mutual split from Texas Tech is official; he won’t play college football in 2026, and Texas Tech won’t seek repayment of prior NIL money.

  • Van Lathan questions the underlying motivations in college football’s “outrage” and whether Sorsby’s story sets any important precedent.
  • Joel Anderson argues Sorsby’s reputation is deeply and perhaps permanently affected:

    "For people that suggest that he got off away with this, I think that you’re not really thinking about how this has impacted his life..." [14:48]

  • Debate over whether Sorsby’s circumstances justify forgiveness, and if the public’s desire for “punishment” outweighs compassion or fairness.

• Shift of Blame to Cincinnati?

  • Sorsby’s agent claims Cincinnati knew about his gambling addiction and failed to act.
  • Van Lathan draws the line between institutional responsibility and individual accountability:

    "At a certain point though, Brendan Sorsby is responsible for his healing... he’s also responsible for his gambling." [18:10]

• Broader Theme: The conversation symbolizes the blurred lines in modern CFB between amateur and professional, and how institutions, athletes, and fans each dissect responsibility.

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2. Interview with Jeffrey Kessler ([32:46–65:14])

a. Sorsby's Experience and Legal Arguments

• Kessler outlines Sorsby’s mental health crisis:

  "He has suffered from a mental gambling addiction and put himself into a residential treatment facility for about a month..." [33:11]

• Kessler rebuts the “zero tolerance” mindset:

  "The policy does not say if you ever bet on your own team, you are forever barred from the NCAA… You could apply for reinstatement… and will adjust the punishment if any, to take into account whether you were the victim of a mental disease..." [36:33]

• Claims the NCAA’s own written policies support tailored, compassionate responses for cases like Sorsby’s—a nuance ignored by media and pundits.

b. On the NCAA’s Reaction & Media Narrative

• Kessler accuses the NCAA of misrepresenting the case to stir public outrage:

  "This was all, frankly, overblown reaction to a fantasy that the NCAA created for its own purposes." [41:03]

• Points out that Sorsby’s case was unique—no inside information, no corrupt intent, and very modest bets made only when he wasn’t actively playing.
• Challenges the idea of the “red line” (any betting as grounds for lifetime ban), arguing the NCAA should be honest if that’s the supposed standard.

c. On Legal Process and NCAA Governance

• Kessler details the legal battle, noting that the Big 12’s reaction (threatening sanctions against Texas Tech and noncompliance with a court order) effectively doomed Sorsby’s eligibility.

  “You don’t say, ‘Oh, I don’t have to follow the court case...’ That’s called the rule of law.” [47:58]

• He forcefully rejects the media narrative that Sorsby’s eligibility for the NFL Supplemental Draft is in question:

  "He’s never violated an NFL rule in his history… That’s another goddamn media fantasy." [51:03]

d. On NCAA’s Dysfunction and Future of College Sports

• Kessler criticizes the NCAA's organizational chaos and self-inflicted harm, noting the lack of unified economic or governance interests across all divisions:

  "If you just look at it, they purport to regulate Division 1, Division 2 and Division 3… It’s very unclear who actually controls things politically..." [58:54]

• Predicts more collective bargaining ahead, which would involve athletes directly in shaping rules and contracts.
• Calls for the NCAA to focus on safety, education, and athlete support—not economic micromanagement.

e. Other Notable Exchanges

• Van Lathan challenges Kessler on public outrage and “red lines”:

  "Do you understand people’s outrage over what they consider to be a red line in sports, which is betting on teams when you’re on the team?" [45:07]

• Kessler maintains fans/media are reacting to an inaccurate caricature of the case and NCAA rules—not the messy facts.
• Says Sorsby will continue responsible advocacy for gambling addiction awareness regardless of football status.

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3. The Future: Collective Bargaining, Conference Turmoil, and CFB Governance ([65:14–110:32])

• The hosts expand on Kessler’s analysis, predicting collective bargaining as the necessary next step for major college football, especially in revenue sports.
• Van: “What do you think is more advantageous… a landscape where things are more rigorous but the players have collectively bargained that stuff? Or do you think players actually stand to have more agency… now?”
  • Joel: “This is a much better time for athletes… but it’s going to change… I’d rather them be at the table than not.” [90:16]
• Consensus: things are chaotic now but player empowerment is rising fast, and some kind of structural clarity (likely with union involvement) is inevitable.

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4. Headlines & Banter: College Football State of Play ([84:29–110:32])

a. Coaching Carousel & NIL

• Steve Sarkisian hints Arch Manning could stay at Texas well past his eligibility—a move the guys find both “classic Manning” and a weird thing to broadcast midseason.
• Dabo Swinney complains about “no rules,” but Van calls him “irrelevant” and says Clemson’s results have lost him the right to set the agenda:

  "No one gives a fuck what Dabo has to say anymore." [87:41]

b. SMU, Virginia Tech, and Other Hot Topics

• SMU’s QB says he wants to “go all the way;” nostalgia and player bravado abound.
• James Franklin’s move to Virginia Tech and ambitions to restore the Hokies to glory:

  "Virginia Tech has to remember who and what it is." (Van [100:53])

• Army inks a jersey patch/on-field logo deal with USAA—a sign of college sports’ further commercialization.

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5. Sidebar: NBA Salary Cap & “Taking Less to Win” Debate ([110:33–128:44])

• The crew closes with a lively, slightly chaotic debate about Jalen Brunson taking less money for team-building (and a championship), pitting “legacy vs. dollars.”
• Van: “When you’re playing sports… legacy is a part of that. Especially if you’re a Jalen Brunson.”
• Joel: “Take the money. If you get the option.”
  • Argues Brunson’s gamble paid off, but most shouldn’t expect to be Brunson; legacy is nice, but financial security is better.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Jeffrey Kessler:

• "The NCAA policy… does not say if you ever bet on your own team, you are forever barred… It says you could apply for reinstatement… They promised they’d consider mental disease or defect, and threat to competitive integrity. They didn’t do that." [36:33]
• “People are outraged over their own fantasy in their own mind or what they think the policy was, what they think the facts were, what they think happened here. And none of them read the decision.” [45:57]
• "You want to stem gambling culture? How about if the NCAA passes a rule barring all their teams from having any association with gambling entities?" [45:57]

Van Lathan:

• "At a certain point though, Brendan Sorsby is responsible for his healing, and he’s also responsible for his gambling. …Once again [this is] the difference in college sports." [18:10]
• "I want to make sure we don’t become another dick-riding show… you want a real interview." [67:07]

Joel Anderson:

• "For people that suggest that he got off away with this, I think that you’re not really thinking about how this has impacted his life again." [14:48]
• "Above all, I think about the people that say that Brendan Sorsby got away without getting any punishment… It's gonna take him a long time and he's gonna have to perform in such a way that people look back on this… and that this is gonna fade into the back… like when Randy Moss got kicked out of Florida State." [13:54]

Memorable Banter:

• On field day/athletics in media: "Who do you think has gotten better looking women over the course of their life, you or Jermaine Dupri?" [71:11]
• Joel, on SMU: “SMU had three of the five most attractive black women I saw in college…” [98:21]
• Van on Dabo/Clemson: “Dabo should be speaking about the climate of his defensive line.” [88:03]

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Episode Flow & Tone

• The hosts maintain their trademark blend of sharp analysis and locker-room banter.
• The Kessler interview is adversarial but fair, challenging his arguments, but letting him passionately defend his client.
• College football’s contradictions, hypocrisies, and future are explored in an irreverent, but insightful style—never shying from controversy or humor.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a must-listen for college football fans who want to understand the full messiness of the current era: legal battles, NIL headaches, governance chaos, and the personal stakes involved in public scandals. Kessler’s candid and combative interview clarifies — and complicates — the narrative around the Sorsby case, while the hosts' spirited discussion frames it as emblematic of the broader college football crossroads.

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For more details, listen to:

• [32:46–65:14] for the full unvarnished Kessler interview on Sorsby, NCAA dysfunction, and the coming collective bargaining era
• [11:48–32:45] for sharp takes on scandal, punishment, and public perception in college sports
• [84:29–110:32] for rapid-fire news & culture

Not to miss:

• Kessler’s takedown of NCAA hypocrisy [45:57]
• Host banter & analogies on CFB’s generational change
• The enduring debate: legacy vs. money in sports ([110:33+])

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“If you get the option… take the money.” – Joel Anderson [128:44]

Transcript

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[Tate Frazier]

Welcome back to Ringer Tailgate, the Wednesday edition of the show. I'm your host, Tate Frazier. We got a fun show today. We're going to have one big guest. Jeffrey Kessler, big time lawyer who is representing Brendan Sorsby is going to join us and he's going to break down what kind of has happened throughout this saga. In case you missed it, story of the week, Soresby and Texas Tech are mutually parting ways. We'll get to all that and more. But first and foremost, let's say what's up to our guys. Van Lathan in studio. What's up, man?

[Van Lathan]

Tiger, bro, raise the roof. You know what I'm saying, brother? Raise the roof. Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

Love to hear. We also got Joel Anderson. What's up Joel, man.

[Joel Anderson]

Good to see y', all, man. What's what's popping?

[Tate Frazier]

Not too much. We've got World cup going on, college World Series happening in real time. NBA Finals finally wrapped, Stanley cup up Raft as well. I sent a video to you, Joel. I wanted to get your thoughts on this. We had a German fan in Houston dancing to Boozy Wipe Me Down. It just felt like one of those, like, you know, connective tissue moments just for humanity there. Do you enjoy that? Houston doing well?

[Joel Anderson]

I feel like Germany. Germans would really like Houston for, you

[Tate Frazier]

know, Houston, they're having a great time.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, man. Those are places that kind of align, and Houston is a place of people like to go have fun, you know, like last episode, I talked about how people kind of want to go there to indulge their inner. But it really is a fun.

[Tate Frazier]

You think that's what the Germans are going there for?

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, she was at a club.

[Van Lathan]

The Germans need to watch out. I don't know. Like, you know, look, it's been a long time since they got. Since they started getting crazy, but it ain't been that long. Like, they, like, you know, they need to watch out. Okay, wait, wait.

[Joel Anderson]

What do you mean, no? Because German, man, look, in Texas, man, especially going to the hill country park where my great grandmother used to live, Like, Germans run all up and through there in.

[Tate Frazier]

In Texas, isn't there a town, New Brunswell, that's like an all German Braunfels?

[Joel Anderson]

Fredericksburg. Yeah, all those.

[Commercial Announcer]

That's.

[Van Lathan]

That's in tech. That's. That's a little west of Houston, though.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah,

[Van Lathan]

yeah, that. That's west. Because I know people that live there. They also know what the else they got in Texas, which is also German. Schlitterbahn is the. You ever go to Slitter Bond before, Joe?

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yeah, man. I've been to both of them. I went to the one in New Braunfels for eighth grade, for our eighth grade trip. And then we. There's a. There was one in Galveston. I don't know if it's still there, but they used to have, like, another Schlitter Bond. So, yeah, it was a lot of fun, man.

[Van Lathan]

So let me tell you something. For some reason, when I was a kid in Baton Rouge, Schlitterbahn commercial came on, and it made Schlitterbahn look like the greatest fucking place in the world to go to a water park. Like, you want to go to Schlitterbahn? Yeah. And just had it in my mind, just like, van, what do you want to do? It's like, I want to go to Schlitterbahn. What you do for your birthday? Birthday? We take summer. I was like, want to go Schlitterbahn? Want to go to Slitterbond? Schlitt.

[Joel Anderson]

Schlitterbahn.

[Van Lathan]

Schlitter Schlitterbahn. Schlitterbahn.

[Joel Anderson]

Slurbon.

[Commercial Announcer]

Slurbond.

[Van Lathan]

And I eventually got to go, and it was amazing. That's the last water park I've been to, because water parks are disgusting.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, they're like 85% pe.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah. I. I didn't even know how to swim, but when you're of that age, you know, I guess I'm trying to think of the, like, 8 to 16 or 8 to 15. A water park is the bro. Because it is. You seeing girls for the first time in bathing suits, it's kind of like. It's kind of like a club, because it's kind of like you're just kind of all around hanging out in the pool at a hot tub, and you don't.

[Tate Frazier]

And you get dropped off. Your parents leave you there. Yeah. You're kind of, like, contained, but then it's like.

[Van Lathan]

And then if you go to Blue Bayou. See, we have Blue Bayou in Baton Rouge. Y' all heard Lil Wayne rap about that? Like, the wave pool at Blue Bayou. I know as I blew that.

[Tate Frazier]

Blue Bayou.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. That. He's talking about Blue Bayou Water Park. I didn't even know that Blue Bayou's. Yeah, it's right. Like, it's. It's Baton Rouge. Blue Bayou is in Baton Rouge. They might say, oh, it's right outside Baton Rouge. No, it's Bat. That's Baton Rouge. That's Baton Rouge. Blue Bayou is in Baton Rouge.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

And. And you go there, and that one was cool. The thing with Blue Bayou is when everybody goes to Blue Bayou, that's when you would see your classmates and stuff in their bathing suits.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Everybody going crazy.

[Joel Anderson]

That's right.

[Van Lathan]

Saying, like, everybody, like, everybody going crazy. Everybody go to Blue Bayou. Like, oh, man, this ain't the. This ain't the eighth grade no more.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yeah, man. I mean, you might go see other. And, like, we went in eighth grade, so we. The end of the year is like a class celebration. And so then we were seeing girls from other schools that were doing the same thing, you know, and be like, yo, what's up? Will y' all go to, you know, I don't know, Mo City Middle or whatever, you know, it was. It was kind of. It was kind of live, man. McAuliffe shout out. McAuliffe Middle School.

[Tate Frazier]

I bet Beyonce was there once upon a time, Joel.

[Joel Anderson]

I bet you did.

[Van Lathan]

Beyonce. I will say this if you guys Google Slitter Bond.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, you already. Go ahead.

[Van Lathan]

It hasn't been all roses at Slitter Bond.

[Tate Frazier]

Oh, some bad things happening.

[Joel Anderson]

What's going on?

[Van Lathan]

There's been some other things that have happened in some Slitter Bonds across the country.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, no, I don't want to.

[Van Lathan]

I don't want to raise the roof for that.

[Joel Anderson]

No, no.

[Tate Frazier]

I was raising it for Billy, FYI.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

I don't want to.

[Joel Anderson]

So.

[Van Lathan]

So there's been some. Some stuff that's happened. I covered it when I was at tmz.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, man, that wave machine.

[Tate Frazier]

Oh, they had a giant slide, too, that was, like, the tallest and fastest in the world. And then, like, people that weren't. That's the park. Right. Where the people were not supposed to go on it because they weren't old enough or tall enough or something. And, like, they didn't survive this massive, insane slide that they had.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah, something happened. Something really bad happened. I don't want to talk about SL Bond and have a whole bunch of people go, oh, they don't know what happened to Schlitter Bond. I covered what happened at Schlitter Bond, and it was up. That's all I'm gonna say. So I've been to Texas. I've never been to the Slitter Bond in Kansas City or whatever. Let's not bring the pod down.

[Joel Anderson]

Galveston. Galveston.

[Tate Frazier]

That's where it is. Galveston.

[Joel Anderson]

Galveston is the other one.

[Tate Frazier]

I feel like that's like, a part of the podcast lore at this point. Galveston, Texas. We have to go there.

[Joel Anderson]

Galveston's so fun, man. I used to go down there when I lived in Houston, man. I took my wife down there. We were dating. And, you know, she's from the bay, and, you know, so she's used to, like, beautiful beaches that people wear coats to walk on. They don't really use it as a beach. And so she just said, I mean, you know, she saw people, you know, drinking in the middle of the median. And I mean, your galves is kind of, you know, it's not a beautiful place. It's a fun place. And so she's like, galveston's kind of wild, isn't it? And I was like, yeah, you know what?

[Tate Frazier]

You know what I think of when I think of Galveston, Texas? I think of Robert Durst from the Jinx.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, bro.

[Tate Frazier]

He was hiding out, man.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, man.

[Van Lathan]

That was crazy.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, he was crazy.

[Joel Anderson]

Very crazy.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, that was, bro.

[Van Lathan]

That dude. That dude goes. That dude is way up there for. Craziest ever, bro. I'm serious. I'm serious, bro. Think about it. If you.

[Joel Anderson]

That.

[Van Lathan]

That guy is nuts, bro. He's way up there. Craziest around, dog.

[Joel Anderson]

Robert Durst is dead. Right? Okay. Yeah, he just died a few years ago.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. Remember when he went in the bathroom, miked up and looked in the mirror and was, like, burped and said he did it? You know? That was crazy.

[Van Lathan]

Even. That's crazy.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

He.

[Van Lathan]

He was. He was just killing people, bro.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, man.

[Van Lathan]

Anyway, man.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. So that's my Galveston, Texas, story. I want to shout out Myrtle Waves. Myrtle Beach. That was my water park.

[Joel Anderson]

That was your one.

[Tate Frazier]

Great times. Yeah. Find people from all over the state.

[Joel Anderson]

Was it in North Carolina or South.

[Tate Frazier]

South Carolina. Myrtle Beach.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay.

[Tate Frazier]

These are terrible stories. Slitter Bonds. Like, how. How is this still a functioning.

[Van Lathan]

We.

[Joel Anderson]

We talked about the girls, though. We just didn't. We just told you about, like, what goes down, you know, if you go to Schlitterbahn.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. Joel said it was the first club he ever went to.

[Joel Anderson]

I didn't say it was. Well, it probably was, though.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. It's great. I can't imagine you're going to other clubs.

[Joel Anderson]

No, but Houston had a team club, as I mentioned here. We had Drumsticks. There was something on the north side.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, my God.

[Tate Frazier]

Drumsticks are crazy. I don't think that. I don't think that exists.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. In retrospect.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, Tate, I just sent you a video of the Kappa beach party. Click that.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, man. Oh, my God. Come on, man. TNA flicks. I can't look at this on my work computer, can I?

[Tate Frazier]

Don't do it, Joel. Stay safe out there.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, I was in that beach party. I lived. I live to see the tail.

[Van Lathan]

Look, it'd be great if Joe's videos. This is all. It's somebody mama trying to act like y' all mamas wasn't shaking ass.

[Joel Anderson]

Man, I wanted to go to Freaknik so bad. I was like, the. The. My first year in college was like the last. Like, my first couple years of college. Like the last two of Freak Nick.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, we just missed it. We just missed the era.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

When did. When did it wrap up?

[Joel Anderson]

96, 97. Like that.

[Tate Frazier]

Like, the Internet was about to take off.

[Joel Anderson]

Smart. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they had, like, some really bad incidents, like they, you know, women getting grabbed and were showing up that weren't really in college. But I. I'm. I'm sure Vance saw the documentary on Freaknik, right?

[Van Lathan]

They ran.

[Joel Anderson]

Was it on?

[Van Lathan]

I did see it.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Something like that. Peacock. Whatever. It was good. It was interesting. It made me miss that time. And. And you know what? I thought Freaknik was going to be when I Got down there. Capital beach party pretty good. But again, they ran the motherfuckers off. They're like, we don't want you down here with that. That nigga nonsense anymore, you know? So it all.

[Tate Frazier]

It all started at the water parks, though, you know what I mean? I feel like that's the first step to get there first.

[Joel Anderson]

My first little taste of the nightlife.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, there you go. Shout out to all the people that are enjoying the World Cups. It's fun to see all these different, you know, countries represented in all these different cities. Cool to see, like, Curacao score a goal. I know they got blown out by Germany, but just the reaction. The coach is crying. First goal in the World Cup. Just watched the Congo tie it up with Portugal.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, down there in Houston. That's right. Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, that was down in Houston as well. So a lot of stuff happening in the World Cup. I hope everybody's enjoying it. Let's get to college football. Big story. Story of the week. As I said at the top of the show, Brendan Sorsby, Texas Tech mutually parting ways. Sorsby will not play College Football in 2026. We talked about this ad nauseam, but now it is official. Also, Texas Tech will not seek a return of any money already paid to Brendan Sorsby. Van when you saw this story, what was your reaction?

[Van Lathan]

I was interested to see what the response would be. There are certain things that happen sometimes where people want the outrage or they want their disdain, but they also kind of want the things to happen. And I was kind of curious at who actually wanted Brendan Sorsby to play for this to be an ongoing story throughout the college football season and who would spike the football over him not being able to play. I think insofar as I think a lot of people would say that college football kind of set a cultural standard about what it is that they would accept. And whether or not you like that or hate, seems that the college football world right now does not want a player that was gambling and gambling on his own team to be able to suit up. And they went about trying to get the swordsby situation handled in any ways that they could. I'm not so sure if they would have used the nuclear option in the case of this if they were willing to go that far, but they certainly made them feel like they were.

[Tate Frazier]

Absolutely, Joel. Obviously, we were kind of on opposite sides talking about this last week with Jay Billis. A lot of speculation about what was going to happen, but there were so many moving parts here. The Big 12 coming out filing their own lawsuit in this situation.

[Joel Anderson]

Paxton fucked tech, man. He really did.

[Tate Frazier]

It was a lot of shots fired all over the place. But your. Your reaction, Joe. Joe, when he saw this news.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, I think, you know, above all, I think about the people that say that Brendan Sorsby got away without getting any punishment or that, you know, that he. That he was basically going to get away with it had he played. I don't think they really are thinking about what has happened to his name here over the last month or two, about how long it's going to take for him to outli. Well, this isn't the first, you know, the first in the first paragraph of his obit. Well, someday, you know, I mean, he's gonna. It's gonna take him a long time and he's gonna have to perform in such a way that people look back on this and they're like, oh, it's like when. It'll be like, you remember when Randy Moss got kicked out of Florida State and then in Notre Dame, you know, be that kind of story like that. He would have to be not maybe that good, but good enough that this is gonna fade into the back superstition conversation. Yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Nobody remembers that about Randy Moss.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yeah, nobody does. Yeah. Not anymore.

[Van Lathan]

That was. That was destroyed by the time Randy Mars finished his Marshall career.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, in my opinion, could have been. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, but the thing is, he's. His name still carried a hint of controversy or whatever.

[Tate Frazier]

I mean, even Alan Iverson in the bowling alley.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

Same thing it took.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, and really, I mean, it's not like, you know, Randy was interested in, you know, building his reputation in some sort of other way. He was. He was himself. He was comfortable being himself, which is great. But a lot of people took that to mean that he was some sort of a malcontent or a bad guy or whatever. And it took him retiring and people finally getting a chance to hear him and see him talk before sort of the stench of that. That those earlier troubles went away. And I think that that's what's going to happen with Brendan. And so I. Again, for people that suggest that he got off away with this, I think that you. You're not really thinking about how this has impacted his life again. I think I'm sort of agnostic on what the punishment should have been. I think people know that, like, I could. You could have made a case for me for two games. You could have made for me a case for me for 12 games. But the the, the thing about, about this is that I just hope Brendan is okay and that he can just move on and get beyond this. And I hope the college fans now that there will be no more scandal, no more questions about the integrity of the game. You know, you can live comfortable. Comfortable in your knowledge that gambling isn't affecting any outcome of any football. You're going to be seen. You see me winking my eye. This is a YouTube. That's a YouTube thing, you know what I'm saying? I winked my eye at people to let people know that that's okay. But, you know.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

And then the final thing that I just thought was funny is that, like, so much has happened in the world. So many horrible things happen to people, even in sports. Like, there's just things that you can stand up and say, hey, you know, we don't support this, or we do support this or whatever. And I just had never seen people come together like this at college football. Just be united and feel so comfortable. Like, University of Michigan is like, we're not going to play Texas Tech to show them that we don't agree with their lack of ethics or whatever integrity in any sport.

[Tate Frazier]

I mean, they're not going to play them in volleyball.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm just like, bro, when was the last time colleges did this? Like, when they were trying to enforce the color line in football, like in the 19, like, like, when was the last time the colleges were, like, were combining together? We're not going to play that team because of this. And I just, again, I would suggest that that's stupid, but I'm glad that, you know, you know, he's moving on and hopefully he'll be able to rebuild his career and rebuild his name. And everybody can feel great about the lack of effect gambling has on the games they watch every Saturday.

[Tate Frazier]

One other news nugget here that came out after the fact. Brendan Sorsby's agent, Ron Slavin, came out and said that he claims Cincinnati knew about the gambling addiction and took no action. He said, quote, if anybody should be questioned or catching heat, it should be Cincinnati. Because they knew for two years, never said anything and didn't do anything about it. That's the part of the story that gets lost in, quote, van. What do you think about that revisionist history? Instead of Texas Tech taking the heat, they're saying now his agent saying Cincinnati

[Joel Anderson]

should be the ones funny.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, look it, Brendan Swsby is a young man. He's a young man. And I believe in second chances, third chances. I believe in too Many chances. Right. At a certain point though, Brendan Swordsby is responsible for his healing, of course, and he's also responsible for his gambling. Brendan, it wasn't the University of Cincinnati, it wasn't the Texas Tech, it wasn't Indiana, it wasn't any of those things that made Brendan Sorsby gamble. Brendan Sorsby got into gambling. And he's also been very brave and courageous from everything that we've heard in getting himself out of gambling. But to me, the way I look at it is, you know, once again, this. We talk about the difference in college sports. We talk about the differences in what it is and what it means to be a student athlete. You can see those differences in the way that this story is being talked about, because we're talking about how young this guy is. We're talking about what programs owed him in terms of steering him in the right direction, in terms of providing a safe spot for him. Some people are saying that he was old. We talked to Kessler, he was old. Football as part of his rehabilitation. This is something that you don't have a conversation, you don't have about a 25 or a 26 year old person. This is not. So we're still on the line in terms of what we believe college sports can be. How much we actually owe these athletes and then how much these athletes actually owe themselves and their universities and the programs that they are playing for. And until we get more finite answers on that, we're going to have cases like this that kind of live in the ether of everything.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. And blur the line for everybody involved, which is, you know, a tough spot to be in. Joel, your thoughts on that?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, no, I mean, I think Van is right about that. You know, I, I also too see the problem with portraying, you know, source B as. He's a victim in this. He is a grown man, you know, and he made, he's a. I mean, basically he's a professional. I mean, he got money to pay play football to move down to.

[Tate Frazier]

That's kind of the contradiction. It's like these are kids that we have to worry about, but then also they're grown ups who are professionals. You know what I mean? That's where we're having trouble trying to dissect.

[Joel Anderson]

I think the thing is, is that I speak of it as a 48 year old man. So when I hear of a 23 year old, I, I saw, I, I do see a man, but I also know the 23 year old is still not fully see a man. Yeah, I see a Man, you look at it and it's like, oh, that person physically looks like a man. But that doesn't mean that. In terms of what?

[Van Lathan]

Just go ahead. Like, were you trying to be homophobic?

[Tate Frazier]

No, no, no.

[Van Lathan]

Wow.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Joe.

[Tate Frazier]

I think he was asking for clarity, bro.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay, what happened?

[Van Lathan]

All right, that's tough, man. Why would you say that?

[Joel Anderson]

I want to talk to you about this tough thing? Because I've noticed this, and it's like. I mean, man, I'm sure somebody's wanted to fight you over tough before, because when you. You know that. That van is, like, dismissing you or think something is really up when he says that's tough. You know, it's just like, oh, he think, bro. He think he said something so stupid. It's just. It's the most disrespectful rejoinder.

[Van Lathan]

Huh, Joe? We were on the bus, and there was a guy named Aaron. I can't believe you just brought this up. We was on the bus, and there was this guy named Aaron. And look, I didn't think there was anything wrong with the shirt. He had a Hilfiger shirt on, and that had cherries all over it, right? And I didn't think there was anything wrong with the shirt. The shirt, to me, is a hill figure, but it had cherries all over the shirt.

[Tate Frazier]

Hold on.

[Van Lathan]

I wonder if I can find it like that.

[Joel Anderson]

That was an interesting choice, man. Especially at that age. But, yeah, it was, bro.

[Tate Frazier]

I would say that's tough.

[Joel Anderson]

I wouldn't have cherries all over.

[Van Lathan]

And people. People were like. People was like, yo, Van. Like, fuck the shirt. Fuck the shirt. Fuck the shirt. What you think of a nigga that wear cherries? And I was like. I was like, it's tough, man. You know? Cause as soon as I said it's tough, the whole bus started laughing. I had to fight Aaron. I didn't even say nothing. I had to fight Aaron.

[Joel Anderson]

You had to head.

[Van Lathan]

I was like.

[Joel Anderson]

I was like, that's tough, man.

[Van Lathan]

It's tough because as soon as I said tough, the whole bus started.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Like. And he didn't care until Tatiana started laughing. Oh, when Tatiana started laughing, he couldn't handle that. He was like, all right, it's tough. All right, cool. Wait till we get off the bus.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh.

[Van Lathan]

I was like. I was like, well. I was like, well, I'm a tiger then. Like that. Okay, what happened? We fought, like, a little rough housing.

[Joel Anderson]

Did you win?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, we fought. We fought. Yeah. I whooped his. I'm not even gonna. Y' all.

[Joel Anderson]

For real.

[Tate Frazier]

I Mean, I would think you have a good chance if he has cherries on his shirt. You know what I mean?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. You know, I mean, he was. He was. He was small. He was a smaller dude. Well, I feel like once we got off the bus, though, he didn't really want to even do it. Like, talking about.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, he. He kind of lost the smoke in his voice. Huh?

[Tate Frazier]

A little bit.

[Van Lathan]

Like, we got off the bus because it. Because we got off the bus and then like a bunch of people. That wasn't a bus stop. Yeah, but they got off the. But I don't even know how they got home. A bunch of people that wouldn't. They. But they got off the bus anyway to see it. And then once he. I think he thought. Because me and him at the same bus stop, I think he thought that me and him was gonna get busy and like, nobody was gonna be there.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. Like a long time.

[Van Lathan]

We got.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

But by the time when it was time to get off the bus, everybody was like, I'm getting off the bus, too.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Can you imagine, though, missing your. Because especially this is the 1990s, right?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. This is 95.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. So you miss your bus stop, there's no telling how. How. The van had a very good question. How the. Did those people get home? That's how bad. See that fight? You know, because a lot of them,

[Van Lathan]

to be honest with you, and we gotta get back on topic, but a lot of them, they. Because we in guardier. So we. That's like nowhere near McKinley.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Oh, man.

[Van Lathan]

Like, nowhere near. Like nowhere near McKinley. McKinley in the south. Gardea is south of McKinley. McKinley is back by LSU. I guess it is kind of near McKinley.

[Joel Anderson]

Not that you walk. Would you walk it, though?

[Van Lathan]

No, see, walk. No, I mean, you could walk it. Like, I've taken longer walks just because I walk a lot. Yeah, but now you're not walking from. Let me look at it right now. Like, you.

[Tate Frazier]

But if you just watch the fight, you have a group that has to make the walk together. Maybe, maybe. Maybe decompression walk.

[Joel Anderson]

But, bro, I mean, again, like, I remember one time, the reason I got a cell phone is because my car broke down on the freeway.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

It.

[Joel Anderson]

At the intersection of 610 and 59 in Houston. One night I was coming back from a football game with my homeboy Jabari, and I had a little 87 Honda Civic.

[Van Lathan]

It's 15 miles.

[Joel Anderson]

15 miles.

[Van Lathan]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, it's not 15 miles. It's 15 minutes to. From. From McKinley to Garrett. Is eight miles.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, no, no, no, you can't walk still. That's not. That's.

[Tate Frazier]

No, that's a lot. Eight miles.

[Van Lathan]

And by the way, you gonna have to walk up burb. It's not like you walk in places where it's like sidewalks to get to and like that. You're gonna have to walk.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, because I KNEW I've seen McKinley before, at least McKinley High. And yeah, I just. This. It doesn't seem like it's near much. And again, yeah, walking that part of Baton Rouge to anywhere does not seem like a walk that you would just want to make. It's not a leisurely, enjoyable walk. So, yeah, man, they really wanted to see that fight, man. How about that? That's tough. What are we talking about before that?

[Tate Frazier]

Brendan Source.

[Van Lathan]

Just saying about the tough thing, but. Brendan Source. But yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, that's tough. But, yeah, well, yeah, I just, you know, so the interesting thing. Did I already. I just. Well, hold on. What? There was one thing I was going to say. Oh, yeah, here it is. And. And Jeff and Jeffrey Kessler's going to talk about this later. I mean, again, man, we're going to see more Brendan Sorsby's. Like, the, The. The thing is, people can think that he was being really cynical by saying that he was a gambling addict or whatever, but I've written about this before, and any of you that just know people of college age or whatever know that gambling is just becoming a thing. Like you've got gambling on your phone, like two addictive things together. They've combined them. And you can gamble on whatever the hell you want to now because. And again, a lot of people think they're smarter than they are. A lot of people want to enjoy sports in a way, and the people that are most vulnerable are in that demographic with Brendan Sorsby. So, you know, I hope that college football is prepared for that. I hope the college football fans are prepared for that, because that is just going to be an ongoing thing. And, you know, hopefully you won't feel, you won't be scared about the integrity of the games anymore because big, bad Brendan Sorsby's gone. And again, the games are all going to be on the level. Nobody's ever going to take any money to do anything, gamble on themselves, because Brendan Sorsby's gone now.

[Tate Frazier]

Well, the funny thing is that last year around this time in the summer, remember the John Mateer story that came out and the nickname, I mean, we had that last summer, and it kind of just got, you know, swept under the rug. And it was all fine, and everybody was, you guys.

[Van Lathan]

It's going to be an increasing part of our lives.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

As sports fans and as college football fans. It's going to be something. Keisha Booty. Had something like this happen where he used his actual name. Oh, no.

[Tate Frazier]

That was tough.

[Joel Anderson]

Wait, let me ask y' all a question then. So do. How do you think Texas Tech and the Big 12 can get along together again after this?

[Tate Frazier]

That. I. I don't think.

[Van Lathan]

I.

[Tate Frazier]

If I were the PAC 12, I would have called Texas Tech and their administrators, like, immediately.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

Hey, you guys are welcome here program. We'll take care of you. We'll never do any of this stuff. I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if, you know, if they start looking elsewhere.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean. Yeah, I mean, that's. That's a really. How will they ever trust each other again? How will they work again? There's a lot of money involved, and I understand that it's often bigger than that. But also. And the thing we love about college football is that old grudges die hard in college football. And sometimes the money don't matter. Sometimes it's about pride or, you know, whatever else. And I could see Texas Tech and, you know, the Big 12 being like, man, fuck y', all, dog. I mean, the Big 12 is the league made up of teams that don't even want to be there anyway. Like, that's not right. None of those teams wanted. Maybe UCF is excited in Cincinnati, Excited that they got.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, UCF was maybe Houston static to get into the Big 12.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, yeah. That was a life raft for them. But all these other ones, Baylor, Texas Tech, tcu, they don't want to be there. They don't want to be in the league together. They just happen to be in the league together. And so I feel like that's one of those things where the bonds that hold them together could really be tested, because that's a.

[Van Lathan]

They had.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, they were about to, you know, potentially ban them from playing and postseason competition and stuff like that. That's. That's tough.

[Tate Frazier]

That is tough.

[Van Lathan]

That's tough. Well, so what's next for Brendan Sorsby? The supplemental draft?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, yeah, sounds like it.

[Tate Frazier]

And I saw Steve minch on the McShay show said that he thought that it would be worth taking a first round pick for Brendan Sorsby if you're a team like the Minnesota Vikings. So, I mean, this is fascinating, kind of the revenge history, because if he was a first round pick, I feel like he would have been in the NFL draft this past season. And I thought the whole idea was for him to go to Texas Tech to then play his way into being a first round pick. But it is fascinating that that's a conversation now.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, it is funny because I feel like I used to have this thing, I say if like you're 6 foot 4 and blonde with a strong arm, like you're born in the first round and you got to play your way out. You know what I mean? And so like I, maybe that's the thing with Brendan Sorsby. Like, they get a good look at him, you know, these workouts and everything else. And you could imagine a scenario that if he had come out in this draft, the team be like, well, man, he's actually pretty good, you know, pretty athletic. He was productive. He didn't have a lot of talent surrounding him. And, and Van saw it. The dude, Quincy Avery, who works with, you know, so many college and professional quarterback, said, you know, quarterback expert. Yeah, quarterback and expert. He thinks that he's going to be coveted by some of these things. In fact, he said, Quincy, Quincy, he said a slower Kyler. That's basically what he's saying. He's like, he's kind of like a.

[Tate Frazier]

Which kind of goes to the Minnesota thing. You know, you got, you got Kyler on a minimum deal there. You got obviously a situation where, you know, it doesn't look like their franchise decision is going to work out with J.J. mcCarthy. So that could be a team that takes a swing. I would be shocked if it's a first round pick, but I mean, Terrell Pryor was a third round pick in the supplemental draft. I feel like that to me would be more of the place that he's in.

[Joel Anderson]

But, but the Raiders took him, you know what I'm saying? That was the Raiders. I mean, all they did for a number of years was make bad, you know, decisions with their draft picks.

[Tate Frazier]

So, yeah, so we'll see what happens with swordsby. But the supplemental draft, we talked about it, what, three weeks ago about him going to the supplemental draft and everything sort of changed with the injunction. And then obviously we're back at square one at this point. But to break down how we all got here, we have his lawyer, one of the biggest lawyers in all of sports. He is basically the reason that NFL free agency exists, to kind of give like a big capper of how important he's been in the sports space. But we're going to have Jeffrey Kessler, one big guest joining us right after this. And he is going to break down how this Soresby thing played out and sort of his vantage point on what happened with Brendan Sorsby. That's coming up right now. All right, as promised at the top of the show. Joining us now, one big guest. He's going to help us break down the Sorsby saga of sorts. He's closely connected to this. And of course, one of the premier sports lawyers in the country. We have Jeffrey Kessler joining us. Jeffrey, thanks so much for taking the time to come in on Tailgate, and great to see you, man.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Good to see you.

[Tate Frazier]

We got a lot of questions and Joel has written out a bunch of questions. So, Joel, I'll throw the alley OOP up to you. What's the first thing you have on your mind here for Jeffrey?

[Joel Anderson]

Well, Jeffrey, thanks for joining us. And first and foremost, you know, Brendan is a young man who obviously has a gambling addiction. And so how has he dealt with all of the noise around this case? How is he feeling now that his college football career is officially over?

[Jeffrey Kessler]

So this has not been an easy experience for him. As you probably know, he has suffered from a mental gambling addiction and he put himself into a residential treatment facility for about a month. And he is focused on his recovery, on being the best person he could be and in finding the right path to pursue his passion for being a quarterback.

[Van Lathan]

Jeffrey, I'm going to be completely transparent with you. I am one of the members of the college football media, one of the people in college football who absolutely believes that Sorsby should never play college football again, that gambling, particularly on your own team, is a red line and that that means you don't get to play anymore football. What about this case? Am I, am other members of the media and other people around the country missing everything?

[Jeffrey Kessler]

So people think that we got a court order that invalidated the NFL's drug policy. We did the opposite. What the court found is that we showed that the nf, that the ncaa, I may have said NFL, that the NCAA policy on gambling required it to consider two factors. In this case, its own policy required it. Those factors were, number one, that the player never engaged in any corrupt conduct. It was undisputed. He didn't bet on his team in any game in which he actually was on the active roster for the game. He had no inside information he shared. He didn't work with gamblers. He didn't make any money from this. There was no corrupt activity. And number two, that he had a mental disease that is prevalent among young athletes today. And frankly, non athletes, especially males in the schools who for which the NCAA policy promised they would give priority consideration. So what the court found is not that the policy was wrong. They found the NCAA breached their own policy by not considering these factors. And that's what's been totally misportrayed here. There are very few athletes, if any, who would have these two unique facts that required he be treated with support rather than punishment.

[Van Lathan]

So one follow up, you guys were able to successfully argue that that support includes playing football, correct?

[Jeffrey Kessler]

The policy said so. So you know what the policy says? No one's read the policy. The policy does not say if you ever bet on your own team, you are forever barred from the ncaa. That is not what the policy says. What the policy says is that you are initially declared ineligible by your school and then you could apply for reinstatement. And in that reinstatement, we, the ncaa, will look at the facts, the totality of the circumstances, and will adjust the punishment, if any, to take into account whether you were the victim of a mental disease or defect that caused you to do this and whether it involved any corrupt activity or threat to competitive integrity. That's what the NCAA promised, contractually that they did not do for this poor kid. And what this kid wants to do, wanted to do, was to devote himself to educating others who have these problems with gambling addiction. Because the NCAA is paying right now zero attention to them while they go out and make their multimillion dollar deals with, you know, to exploit the gambling process, okay, to generate revenues to name some of their stadiums after casinos. They are doing zero to help the athletes who get entrapped this way. And that is wrong.

[Van Lathan]

Is Sourceby planning to do that? Because that's a very noble endeavor to, you know, educate young men on gambling and stuff like that. You're saying that he wanted to do that? Are you saying that he's not going to do that now? That he's not?

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Oh, no, he'll still, he'll still do it.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. But he's dedicated, contingent on him playing football.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

But what I'm saying, what was presented to the NCAA was what you should do here is, yes, he shouldn't escape any punishment at all, you know, so a two game suspension would be appropriate. But beyond that, you should be supporting him in trying to get this message out. And his treatment advisor, his addiction, a treatment advisor who worked on this, put in a report, uncontested, that what he really needed was the structure of football, frankly, and being on a team would help him in his recovery in Any event, what happened, as everybody now knows, is we won the case. But then the Big 12 filed this lawsuit saying that, oh, we're going to seek an. An ability to punish the school and boycott their teams and not go through with this. And it was going to entail, you know, months more of litigation. And what happened is, is that Texas Tech concluded that it just couldn't continue with this uncertainty as much as they supported the player. So they concluded that they were not going to go forward with him on their team, you know, which is obviously something they could decide. And so then the player decided, okay, in light of that, you know, he will now go to the NFL supplemental draft because he wants to continue being a football player at the highest level. He'll continue to devote himself to spreading the word about this gambling addiction issues and devoting himself to his treatment. And we are going to be withdrawing the lawsuit and all the appeals and everything else like that out.

[Joel Anderson]

You know, Jeffrey, you spoke about what the NCAA and its obligation to its athletes were. But did you. For people like Van, people who are outraged at the idea that a guy like your client would have been allowed to play football, this. Did you understand the national response which led to, you know, the Big 12 saying, we might sanction you, the University of Michigan saying, we're not going to play you. And a lot of people argue, oh, this might set a dangerous precedent where the NCAA can't punish its players. What did you make of that? That noise around that this was the

[Jeffrey Kessler]

result of an NCAA campaign to misportray what this decision was and stir up all this controversy, in part because they're looking for legislation in Congress, in part because they wanted to portray this as something it was not until very specifically you talk to the average ad, or you talk to the average fan, or frankly, you talk to the average media member, and they will think that this decision sets a precedent that you can't suspend players who better their own team. It sets no such precedent. You would. They would think that this decision says is a blessing, that everybody can out bet on their own team in a corrupt way. It says no such thing. Okay. You would think that people would think that. That frankly, they think that the player here bet on his own team with inside information or when he could affect the outcome in some way in the game. He did no such thing. So this was all frankly, overblown blown reaction to a fantasy that the NCAA created for its own purposes. And the ads reacted accordingly.

[Van Lathan]

When you say he didn't have any inside information, what constitutes inside information in

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Other words, what could be corrupt would be if, like, he was on the team, like, you know, dressed to play and, like, knew, like, you know, like whether somebody was hurt or something like that, and was, like, betting based on that information or sharing that in some ways. Understand, this was completely investigated by the NCAA enforcement staff, and they entered into what's called a stipulation of facts. And the stipulation of facts, uncontested was the players in. Nothing to be corrupt, nothing to influence the outcome of a game, nothing to take advantage of inside information. What he was doing is that he wasn't activated for the roster at the beginning of the season. He was, you know, basically sitting in his. In his. In his dorm room, frankly, addicted to this gambling app. Okay? And he put in some very small bets on his team to win the game because he thought it was, like, supportive to do that. That's it. And we're talking, like, you know, like $5 bets, $10 bets, like, you know, that is. That is. Would. Should win. And the second he was activated and actually came in and had a possibility of playing, he never had a single bet on his team. And that's the reason. The reason undisputed.

[Van Lathan]

Well, one follow up. I. I understand that there was an investigation. The only reason why I ask is because, of course he has inside information, right? He's. He's. He's on the team. Like, if I was going to bet on something that was happening at the ringer, if I was going to bet,

[Jeffrey Kessler]

right,

[Van Lathan]

I work here. Of course he knows things that nobody else knows.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

What they look into, okay, is like, oh, did he bet that? Like, this player was not going to play this game, or this player was going to have a good performance because he knew that this player did something or was going to have a bet? There was zero evidence of anything like that. And it's not just me saying it. It was stipulated. They went through this whole investigation to check this, and they agreed with all of this.

[Van Lathan]

Before I throw it back, do you understand people's. Joel used the word outrage? So let's just go with the word outrage. Do you understand people's outrage over what they consider to be a red line in sports, which is betting on teams when you're on the team, where that could go. We talk about the fact that there needs to be something that is done to stem the tide against gambling and gambling culture taking over the ncaa. Couldn't you make an argument that sufficiently punishing Brendan Sorsby is part of stemming the tide from gambling culture completely infecting the ncaa. Can you make that argument?

[Jeffrey Kessler]

You want to stem gambling culture? How about if the NCAA passes a rule barring all their teams from having any association with gambling entities or with that too, or naming rights or stadiums or anything else. How about if the NCAA gets rid of its contracts with any gambling related organizations? How about if the whole culture of gambling is changed? That would make a difference. The other thing is if you believe the NCAA should have a policy that says we will never consider reinstatement if someone bets on their team. And we have this bright line policy for deterrence, like the way that the NFL has a steroid policy that says we don't care how it gets in your body. If you get it like you're responsible, then maybe they should write that policy and pass it with the membership. That is not what their policy says. That's the problem. That's not the promise that they made to their athletes. That's not the consideration of what it says. As I said, people are outraged over their own fantasy in their own mind or what they think the policy was, what they think the facts were, what they think happened here. And none of them read the decade decision. None of them read the stipulated facts. None of them has even looked at what actually happened here. Right? That's the problem. That's the problem we have with most of the media because most of the media has reacted off of the NCA's press release instead of actually doing their job and seeing what has actually happened here in terms of the facts.

[Joel Anderson]

Jeffrey so after Judge Curry's temporary injunction, the trial date was set for after the season. You understood that there were going to be challenges, right? That like maybe to appeal, right?

[Jeffrey Kessler]

That's it. That's what you do when you lose a court case. You appeal. The NCAA filed an appeal. You know what you don't do when you lose a court case? Because that's going on far too much in this country right now. You don't say, oh, I don't have to follow the court case. I'm going to find some way around it, okay? That's called the rule of law. So what you had here is the Big 12 got together and said, you know what, we don't like this court decision. We're not going to follow it. We're going to try to find a way to carry out our own punishment. Even though the court issued this ruling. That is a great lesson for their students in all of those Big 12 institutions. You just go out there and you don't like a court decision. You figure out some way to evade it. Okay, think about that as the message that came out of this. Now, what happened is we then sent them letters. I sent them one for the athlete saying, you were bound by this court order, which they were. And Texas Tech said 1. And with the attorney general, Texas saying, if you go avoid this court order, you're going to violate the antitrust laws. So then instead of just violating the order, they went to court to file lawsuit saying, we want permission in effect, to violate the court order in terms of all this. So they created this whole thing firestorm, which in the end made it impossible for the player to play this season at Texas Tech. So I guess they got what they wanted.

[Commercial Announcer]

Well, does it.

[Joel Anderson]

Do you take issue then? Because a lot of people will respond and say, and they have said this over and over again in cases from Diego Pavia to Tristan Smith at University of Tennessee, whatever. Well, what the players are doing with their attorneys is they're finding favorable courts and trying to, you know, get around NCAA rules that they've agreed to. What do you make of the that criticism?

[Jeffrey Kessler]

So again, each case is different. So I can't talk about every other case. In this case, we argue they didn't follow their rules. Not that we wanted different rules. And the judge we got, by the way, was a judge from Dallas who was 200 miles from Lubbock and Texas Tech. He was not a Texas Tech graduate. We actually, the judge we first had the case accused himself and then it say why? Maybe because he had a Texas Tech connection. But the court that went out and found the judge, who did not have any bias and no one objected to him and found this. So this wasn't a question of going out and finding like, you know, some, you know, Texas Tech booster. Right. You know, to rule for you. That's not what happened here.

[Joel Anderson]

Just. Just kind of spinning it forward for a second, you know. Mike Florio, a Pro Football Talk, reported yesterday that you're working to ensure the NFL doesn't attempt to prevent him from entering the supplemental draft because he's not necessarily been deemed eligible for that. So what?

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Yeah, he's eligible. Let me be very clear about that, okay? I've been in contact with the NFL. They have raised no objection to his eligibility, period. That's another goddamn media fantasy.

[Joel Anderson]

It has not been raised.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

They sent us the application and the application application has been submitted and we've had no indication that they have any objection. You know why? Because he's never violated an NFL rule in his history. Right. The NFL has rules. You Violate them. You have issues. There is no issue about him violating an NFL rule, period. So thank you. Give me an opportunity to say, media, do your job. Stop making up this of crap. Including Mike Florio, who I know.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, wow. Okay. Okay.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

So look,

[Van Lathan]

the. The. The passion is almost contagious. It's easy to see why you're the passion, pleasure, the attention to detail while you're so successful at what it is that you do. I will say this, though, to. To what you said earlier. You're saying that there was. There was no bright line. Well, I have two questions. I think the response that you're seeing is people demanding that there be a bright line and looking for this case as an opportunity to force the NCAA or whatever bodies are out there to set one. Because I do not think that the average sports fan wants to see gambling players gambling on their own teams, just to be honest with you. But I have a more specific question. The more specific question is, do you feel like, as part of the judge's ruling in this case, in the Sorsby case, that the NCAA's relationship with gambling was a factor, Was part of, in your mind, was part of the fact that the NCAA and sports culture in general has been so amenable to gambling and so welcoming to gambling as a revenue stream. Do you think that that factored into this case and allowed you guys to get a favorable ruling from the judge?

[Jeffrey Kessler]

I can't comment on that. The judge's decision does not mention that.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

So I'm not going to read anything into the decision that it doesn't say, could it have been a factor? It could have been says. But. But I only can go with what the judge wrote. And the judge did not write anything about that.

[Van Lathan]

Right. Because a lot of people point to the hypocrisy of the NCAA or sports culture in general in welcoming gambling. And as if to say that because gambling has been welcomed as a revenue stream, that in some way the players should be allowed to gamble sports that they play.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Well, let me. Let me take it to another thing. So the ncaa, this year itself, its staff looked at their policy and said, you know, it's not fair to punish the athletes when they bet on other sports that are not college sports, for example. Right. We should help them. We should support them. Right. And they tried actually to pass that change. Right. And for whatever reason, the powers that be came in and blocked that change, too. So, like, so what is that furthering? Right. You know, there's no possibility of the integrity of college sports being affected if Somebody is voting on Australian Rules Football and you've got this gambling addiction problem among your athletes. Why the hell would you want to punish them for doing that? The whole way the NCAA approaches this, like, frankly, the way it approaches most things that it does is just like half assed and backwards.

[Van Lathan]

What's the line there in terms of. For me, I can look at a lot of things. I look at the American criminal justice system, period, right? And see a lot of places where people have actually committed crimes and see those crimes of being crimes of poverty, being crimes of access. And I would say, hey, don't need 55 years for that, 20 years for that. What you need is a diversion program. What you need is mental health resources. What you need is that. And a lot of times I. Those arguments fall on deaf ears. I throw them in jail.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

I get you, by the way. And look, I agree with you. Criminal justice policy in this country has been wrongheaded in a lot of different ways. There have been some improvements in some states. It varies state by state, and there have been times of progress and times of setback. But there are a lot of things that are wrong headed about how people are treated and what we support and don't support and what we punish and don't punish. And it's the same in the NCAA's gambling policy. Frankly, people get motivated by different things that don't always make sense when you look at the particular people who are actually being punished.

[Joel Anderson]

Tate, do you have one? Because I want to. Because I want to follow up on the NCAA thing.

[Tate Frazier]

Justin, keep following up on the ncaa.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay, cool.

[Van Lathan]

Getting there and get there and get take. Getting there, man. Come on. We got Jeff, we got Jeff. We got him going right now.

[Joel Anderson]

Dished it off, man. I'm gonna go ahead and take that. Oop. So, you know, Jeffrey, you were the co lead plaintiff attorney in the House v. In the House settlement, you know, which for people that don't, you know, don't know the specifics, it permitted schools to pay athletes through for the name, image and likeness. And obviously they've since responded by trying to go to Congress, right? They said we need to protect College Sports act, all that other stuff. People like Nick Saban have said that college sports is in crisis and all this other stuff. What do you make of that stuff?

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Okay, so here's what I make about this. Nick Saban made like $14 million a year, okay, when he was the coach. And what he was complaining about, nil, is that other teams who never won before, like Indiana, can now actually Compete and kick Alabama's ass. And he does not like that system. He liked the old system when the money schools had all the advantages, the athletes got nothing and the coaches did fine. You know what the two strength and conditioning coaches made at Alabama under this system? A million bucks a year. You know what the president of Alabama made at that university? $950,000. Strength and conditioning coaches made more than the goddamn president of the university. And the reason for that is because they couldn't share any of it with the athletes. And then Saban comes in on his high horse and says, gee, I like the old system. Yeah, it works real well for him.

[Van Lathan]

Seems like. Okay, so in meeting you and talking to you, it seems like you're discussing with the NCAA on a lot of different levels. You think that the organization either is inconsistent in the way it's meeting out punishments, inconsistent in the way it writes the rules, or just from top to bottom kind of useless. Am I wrong?

[Jeffrey Kessler]

I think the NCAA has huge organizational and governance challenges, which is that for a very, very long time they don't have common economic interests. If you just look at it, they purport to regulate Division 1, Division 2 and Division 3. Well, Division 3 athletics has nothing to do with Alabama football. There's no common interest there in terms of that. And even the P2 don't have common economic interests with the next two, let alone the other conferences. Right. They can't even agree. You know, even the P2 don't agree with each other. They can't agree on the College Football Playoff system. Right. And it's very unclear who actually controls things politically or how decisions are made. Okay, this, by the way, not a criticism of Charlie Baker, who I think has been doing the best he can since he came in, but his hands are really tied by this political system and what he's facing. And so, yeah, I think a lot of the NCAA's harm and complaints is completely self inflicted. I don't think it does nearly enough of what its original mission was, which was his original mission. It was formed at the request of Teddy Roosevelt to work on the safety of sports. They do almost nothing today regarding the safety of sports. They should be working on safety and academic standards and supporting athletes who actually want to go to classes and graduate when they're not given any time to do so. And a whole bunch of other things they can do instead of focusing on how could we regulate the economics of this sport to benefit different parties in terms of this, which is most of what they've done for the last 50 years.

[Tate Frazier]

So, Jeffrey, what does the future look like for the NCAA with all this? I mean, how many cases have they had to fight in court and continue to lose? And like you said, this time they, you know, with the conference of the Big 12, almost set, like, a separate dangerous precedent. So, like, what is the future future look like in the next 10 years?

[Jeffrey Kessler]

So it's hard to predict. But, you know, there are different paths here. You know, one path is, you know, how you don't lose court cases, you comply with the law. Most businesses find a way to do that. Instead of trying to stretch to see what you could get away with, maybe you should think about complying with the law in terms of that. That could be a great way of getting rid of a lot of this uncertainty. The second thing is, you know, they may get some legislation through someday. They may not. It's very uncertain. That might, you know, create new problems, different problems. We'll have to see how that goes, you know, as to whether or not the legislation is going to change things. They may eventually decide that they actually should be doing collective bargaining and recognizing athletes, you know, at least in the revenue sports, in, you know, football and basketball, as being, you know, entitled to collective bargaining, which they could do if they wanted to, says, and then enter into agreements that brought them some certainty that way. You know, most of the major sports in this country, the professional sports, have all concluded that they actually like the idea of having unions, even though they have to deal with them. And there could be strikes, lockouts or grievances, they'd rather do that and have the certainty than just try to impose their own will and get sued every week, you know, so maybe the NCAA and the conferences can learn a little bit, you know, from that, you know, lesson as well. So that might happen in the future

[Van Lathan]

for Brendan Soursby himself. How will the NFL view. How do. How does the NFL view this addiction? What are the NFL rules if he has a relapse?

[Jeffrey Kessler]

So. So, look, he will have to comply with. And he will comply with the NFL's policy on gambling. Right. You know, which. The NFL prohibits you obviously, from betting on NFL games and other things. And that's a rule I have to comply with, like every other rule. I have every confidence that where he is now, he's not gambling at all, that he'll be able to deal with that entirely. He is not broken in the NFL policy or rule, but he'll be subject to the same rules and policy as every other athlete who comes.

[Van Lathan]

Will there be support for him in

[Jeffrey Kessler]

managing his Addiction, he will be continuing his treatment and support. I am sure that any team that drafts him will be very supportive of him and continuing to put him in the right environment and making sure that he has all the support that he needs. Certainly that's what I would do if I was a team, you know, who wanted him, you know, to be with me. In terms of that, it's. It's what, it's what Texas Tech was going to do, and I'm sure it's what every NFL team would do. Right. You know, there's. There are plenty of NFL players who come in with exactly the same addiction issues, you know, coming out of school. In terms of that, of course, teams, you know, have to do a job and, you know, worry about the mental health of their athletes and support them and do that. He's gonna be no different than anybody else that way.

[Van Lathan]

Final question. Does he still get his $6 million from Texas Tech?

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Texas Tech announced they're not seeking the return of any money that they've already paid him. I do not know what that amount,

[Van Lathan]

how much that's money, how much money that's been.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Whatever amount they've already gave him, they are not seeking back. And I just. That's what they announced. That's as much as I know.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. All right.

[Tate Frazier]

Well, there you have it. Jeffrey. This has been an enlightening conversation. We appreciate you taking the time. Obviously, we know you're very busy, so this was very, you know, a very important conversation to have. We love to hear, like the inside baseball, what's going on here, and we appreciate you taking the time. Thanks so much. And we, we definitely would love to have you come back and maybe make light and, you know, break down some of these situations in the future. Thanks so much for taking the time.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

All right, take care. Nice to be here. Bye. Bye.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Van Lathan]

Somewhere out there is a Chevy truck

[Joel Anderson]

and the person who drives it, well,

[Tate Frazier]

that's a Chevy person.

[Van Lathan]

You probably know one. Your buddy, your Sister ones who always show up. They're the first to rise, the last to leave. They always have that little extra something.

[Tate Frazier]

And maybe you've got it, too.

[Van Lathan]

Chevrolet together.

[Tate Frazier]

Let's drive.

[Van Lathan]

Visit chevy.com trucks to explore the lineup.

[Commercial Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Paramount. Plus, in the world of espionage, truth is a moving target. And every decision carries a dangerous consequence. In the HC season 2, Martian has a new mission as a double agent. Twice the lies, twice the risk. The lines between ally and enemy blur like never before. And survival depends on trusting no one. Starring Michael Fassbender, Jeffrey Wright, Jody Turner Smith, and my man, Richard Gere. Don't miss The Agency, season two, all episodes streaming June 21st on Paramount Plus.

[Tate Frazier]

All right, there you have it. Jeffrey Kessler, he was shot out of a cannon right there. Not afraid to get.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, but yeah. Van, you were doing that intentionally, right? Like, were you trying to.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Like, I think on these interviews that we've been doing, I want to make sure that we don't become like another dick riding show. So I think on these interviews, because, you know, a lot of people get on the interviews and they're like, hey, man, I know it's been so tough. You're a big fan. Like, I just want to make sure that people know that they can come on here. You don't want to find, like, a real interview. But I tell you what, though, he was ready to mix it up. Yeah, like that. He was ready to mix it up, bro. He was ready to go.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

He was sticking and moving.

[Joel Anderson]

Awesome. Yeah. I mean, you can understand why he's being as successful as he is, you know, and, yeah, I mean, if you're going to have an attorney to help you and a matter against the ncaa, that is the man that you'd want to have on your side. And, you know, again, just keeping in mind, again, some of this is. It just happens that we're interviewing people that, you know, we all mostly agree with. But I would say it just keeps up my streak from the guest of the week of that week, proving what I said. Right. You know what I'm saying? Or at least siding with me. And so I just, you know, J. J, Bill is Bill Bellamy. Bill Bellamy.

[Tate Frazier]

Dupree, about Jermaine Dupri.

[Joel Anderson]

Remember, he was like, yo, that was crazy.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Nobody.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, nobody thought that, man. At the tacos.

[Van Lathan]

He's a little dude. This is what I think. So I think. I think, yeah, I think this is what I say about that. This is what I'll say about that. I mean, I. I can see why Janet Jackson would like Jermaine Dupri. I can see that. I could see also why Bill Bellamy wouldn't think that Janet Jackson would like Jermaine Dupree. Because Bill Bellamy was kind of in the running for Janet Jackson.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. He didn't think he had a chance. And he saw Dupree and he was like, it could have been me.

[Joel Anderson]

But that was. That was the original point I had made. That was the original point, but it's not.

[Van Lathan]

It's not a good point. I don't give. It wasn't a great point.

[Joel Anderson]

Why didn't you tell him that when he was on there? Did you?

[Van Lathan]

Oh, I did say it. Oh, go back and watch it. Okay, Go back and watch it. Go back and watch. I did say. But. But at the same time, I'll say this, though. You dick ride the guests. And so that's another reason why you can get them to. To. To. To agree. You. You dick ride them.

[Joel Anderson]

No, I'm asking. Good.

[Tate Frazier]

I mean, Jay Billis's last line was, keep kissing ass.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay, Joel. Hey, the last thing he said, by

[Van Lathan]

the way, Can I tell you something? I don't know why you even accepted that. You should have been like, hey, hey, that's tough.

[Joel Anderson]

And look, Bomani. Bomani's argumentative ass is like, man, Jay Billis wore my ass out one time in an argument, and he said I didn't even come back to him. I. I don't. Well, first of all, I think Jay Billis is as good as what I said. I wasn't, like, trying to kiss his ass. I was saying I was just kiss

[Tate Frazier]

his ass again right there.

[Joel Anderson]

Complimenting people. Complimenting people is. Is riding dick. Whereas, like, Van is like Jermaine Dupree. What the you talking about, man?

[Van Lathan]

We can.

[Joel Anderson]

We both. We have the same level. We can holler the same. Okay, here's the deal.

[Van Lathan]

Here's the deal. You know, here's the deal. Defending someone is never riding dick. Defending somebody.

[Joel Anderson]

You don't make the rules.

[Van Lathan]

I actually might. I don't know if you've checked Twitter lately. I think a lot of people actually might. Defending someone is just saying. Because really, that's defending him from hating. You were hating on that, man.

[Joel Anderson]

I wasn't. I wasn't. I was. Hey, Joe.

[Van Lathan]

Joe, let me ask you a question. Joe, let me ask you a question. Joe, let me ask you a question. This might be dick riding, what I'm about to do now. It, though. Let me ask you a question. Who do you think has gotten more women over the course of their life? You or Jermaine Dupree? What? Who do you think. Who do you think has gotten better looking women?

[Joel Anderson]

Who you think has.

[Van Lathan]

Let me ask a question now. Let me ask you. Who do you think has gotten better looking women over the course of their life? You or Jermaine Dupree?

[Tate Frazier]

Joe got Beyonce once upon a time.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, I think my wife is a beautiful woman. You know what I'm saying?

[Van Lathan]

I didn't say that. Gorgeous. Who you think over the course of your life. Of their life has gotten better.

[Joel Anderson]

Hold on. Before. You, before. You. Before. So let me just say this, okay? I wasn't saying that it was me. I knew that Jermaine Dupree would have a better shot at Janet Jackson than I would. I get. I understand. He is very famous now. Jermaine Dupri and I were at the same high school or same college or the same party when we're 27 years old and he was a. That cut hair for a living or he, you know, worked at Enterprise Car Rental.

[Tate Frazier]

If you guys were at drumsticks together.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, we were drumsticks together. Together.

[Van Lathan]

Ain't no way.

[Joel Anderson]

Ain't no way I would have whatever he wanted I could have had. You know what I'm saying?

[Van Lathan]

Can I tell you something, though? Can I tell you something, though?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

That's like saying if. That's like saying if.

[Joel Anderson]

Dick. R. This is Dick. By the way,

[Tate Frazier]

we gotta get Jermaine Dupre on the show. Yeah. Let's say the two of your.

[Van Lathan]

That's. That. That's almost what you just did. Is just like saying. That's almost. If. Like saying if Chris Johnson didn't run a 4:2.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Then I'm as good of a running back as him. The reality is that Jermaine Dupree had a talent. Yeah. And a way about him.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

That made him get way more and way better looking women. And you talking about this man. You talking about this man and you getting on him and dissing them. The question is, I don't know if you even qualified to have something. Jermaine duplicate me conversations that give me

[Joel Anderson]

all the other women that Jermaine Dupri has dated publicly because you giv Mariah Carey. He dated Ron Cary.

[Van Lathan]

I don't think he dated Mariah Carey.

[Tate Frazier]

I thought he did.

[Van Lathan]

N. See you just saying now, like is. Hold. Let's see.

[Joel Anderson]

He has two daughters with Pam Sweat. Hold on, let's see who this woman is.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, let me. Joel.

[Joel Anderson]

Two kids with this woman.

[Tate Frazier]

Left eye.

[Van Lathan]

Don't look up.

[Joel Anderson]

Pam sweat. I mean. Okay, forget it. You know, I'm just saying. All right.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Cause you about to. You have to go too far.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm happy with my wife. I'm happy with my wife.

[Tate Frazier]

Oh, Maya. Maya's a great one.

[Commercial Announcer]

Who do you think?

[Van Lathan]

Maya's a great one.

[Joel Anderson]

You bad. And she placed with my. And I. I felt like.

[Van Lathan]

Anyway, Joe, you know, we out of here, bro.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

By the way, hold on.

[Joel Anderson]

I was.

[Van Lathan]

This. Maya might have been giving you act right. I can't say that that's not the truth.

[Joel Anderson]

I didn't say that she gave me act right, but I said she gave me rhythm. Like, it was just kind of like, oh, okay. Like, you know, I'm funny. You know, whatever. I was handsome. I probably had my snow sweat, my sweater vest with my linen shorts and my sandals probably popping at night. I had a chain, a big chunky chain.

[Van Lathan]

I'm not gonna say that you. That you.

[Joel Anderson]

Hey, that.

[Van Lathan]

I'm not gonna say that. Pam sweat. Beautiful.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. I mean, she's beautiful, but I'm just like. Again, I'm not seeing Jermaine doing pretty Do. Doing anything that I'm not doing.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

What?

[Van Lathan]

I don't know, bro.

[Tate Frazier]

What that mean?

[Van Lathan]

I feel like I'm looking at.

[Joel Anderson]

I've been with the.

[Van Lathan]

I'm looking at Pam swe.

[Joel Anderson]

What do you want him to do?

[Tate Frazier]

Press box with Brian Curtis now?

[Van Lathan]

I'll tell you right now. Now. Now. Okay. Let me ask you a question. Would you be comfortable with us doing a side by side with your wife?

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, wait, hold on. Let's see. Hold on.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. Would you be comfortable with us doing the side by side and Pam sweat and letting people judge who they think. Who they think is better?

[Joel Anderson]

Okay, hold on. Let me. I'm trying to see. Well, first of all, ain't nobody beating my wife, but I'm not gonna allow that to happen.

[Van Lathan]

I'm just asking you a question if you want to get busy.

[Joel Anderson]

No, I mean that. That's. I. Because I don't want to put my. I think that's tough out there because people also.

[Van Lathan]

It's tough. That's tough.

[Tate Frazier]

No, because I don't want.

[Joel Anderson]

I want people. People will either hate on me or whatever, or they might start saying things about my wife. They would also make me uncomfortable. And so.

[Tate Frazier]

And you're already trying not to fight with.

[Van Lathan]

Here's the duty.

[Joel Anderson]

I can't even Google this.

[Van Lathan]

I just found her.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Hold on.

[Van Lathan]

I'm gonna put it in the chat. If you're not ready to throw the gauntlet down. Then stop bringing this up. That's Pam sweat right there.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay, hold on. Text.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, I just put it on. I just put it on again.

[Joel Anderson]

An attractive woman, but I'm happy with my choice. You know what I'm saying?

[Van Lathan]

I'm not saying you're not.

[Joel Anderson]

So let's.

[Van Lathan]

So let's.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Let's.

[Van Lathan]

Let's throw the gal. Let's throw the garlic down.

[Joel Anderson]

No, we're not doing that because that's. That's.

[Commercial Announcer]

That.

[Joel Anderson]

No, I'm not. I wouldn't do that. That's how. You sound like Mark Zuckerberg, you know what I'm saying? In 2002, isn't that how. Isn't that how that web and how Facebook got started?

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, I think it was.

[Joel Anderson]

It was a whole system to rape chicks. That seems like a stretch.

[Tate Frazier]

It was, like, hotter.

[Joel Anderson]

Now what are you even doing here? Who called you? What was the point? Why were you here?

[Tate Frazier]

He was coming in to be an arbiter. I was going to talk to you about Jay Billis, but we quickly kind of gotten off that topic, so.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, go ahead and talk about it. Billy. What?

[Tate Frazier]

Well, no, at the time, I was wondering who would win in a tussle? Joel or Jay Billis. And then I was wondering who'd do better at drumsticks. Joel or Jay Billis? But we moved on. I heard Jay's got.

[Van Lathan]

He's over Joel at. At drumsticks. It's not even close. It's stupid.

[Joel Anderson]

It's a stupid conversation, actually. In. In high school, we. We. High school on high school. I don't think. I. I look, I. First of all, I don't think Jay Billis and I would be shopping at two same store. You know what I'm saying? Just to be. Just to be real about it, you

[Tate Frazier]

both wear sweater vests.

[Joel Anderson]

He gonna be at another party. He gonna be at one party. I'm gonna be a drumsticks man. You know what I'm saying? So we not even. We not even like that, but maybe now we get the Duke. It's our freshman year, and he wants somebody, and I want somebody. I'm not conceding that to Jay Billis at all. Yeah. All right, so why are we here?

[Tate Frazier]

He's 6 8, by the way. Like, a tussle wouldn't.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, you talking about tussling?

[Van Lathan]

No.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, Tussle wouldn't even be close.

[Joel Anderson]

That would be tough. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, so now you're saying, bro, you really. Now you say now you're saying this man could whoop you.

[Joel Anderson]

Brought me sick. They have. They have weight classes for a reason.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

You think he's a. Yeah, he's above your weight class.

[Van Lathan]

No, I bet. I bet Joel weighs more than.

[Joel Anderson]

No, I don't.

[Tate Frazier]

Probably

[Joel Anderson]

25 right now. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

How's the workout going for.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, I'm. I'm all right, man. I'm getting. I'm trying to get. What I really need to do is I'm starting to build. To start.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

Thanks, man. Appreciate it. I need. What I need to do is I need to start. You know what I'm saying? Getting to my.

[Tate Frazier]

Getting the burst going.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, getting that.

[Tate Frazier]

Billy, are you concerned as you hear what. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. I haven't gotten to that point in my workouts yet.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, I mean, the interest. So there's two things I would like to say about this. One, it's interesting to me because I'm more excited about doing one on ones with y', all. You know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, I know that the racing was supposed to be the big draw, but now I'm like, all right, I'm ready to light it back up, put on some cleats, you know, let whoever want to come out there get into it. But the other part of it is that we're never going to do it. It's not going to happen. The ringer field day is not going to happen, folks. Don't believe the height.

[Van Lathan]

Joe, can I tell you something?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

It's absolutely happening.

[Tate Frazier]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

I need to. I need to. I need to have. We need to schedule a meeting about some of the schedule. Listen to me.

[Commercial Announcer]

Listen.

[Van Lathan]

It's absolutely happening. It's absolutely happening. It's happening for real. As a matter of fact, we've got. I've got some people that saw some things that we did recently that now want to work a little bit more with us.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Because of what they saw. Now are offering to host the ringer. The Ringer Field day.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, for real.

[Van Lathan]

It's happening.

[Joel Anderson]

Fat Burger possession.

[Van Lathan]

You're not getting. You're not getting. You're not.

[Joel Anderson]

Bring a tailgate field day. Look, I told you, I will. I will race whoever down the street in front of the Sycamore studio. That's fine. We don't need to have a track for that. I don't care about that. But I want the route game. I want one on ones. I want us to line it up, do all that a few times.

[Tate Frazier]

It turns out the Route running.

[Joel Anderson]

There's a couple people in media that I want to invite to out there. Since, like, who. Since they got so many important, you know, just whatever name names.

[Tate Frazier]

J. Billis Name names.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, I, I, you are letting

[Van Lathan]

me down so much, bro.

[Joel Anderson]

I wonder if I would lock down Jay Billis. He's tall, man. That's a really. You know what I'm saying?

[Van Lathan]

So you, you're not willing to name the people.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Who you are that. Who, who you want to. You're not really into.

[Joel Anderson]

So on one hand, I have a friend, Bomani Jones, who texts me and emails. He's like, bro, why are you fighting with people? Like, what are you doing? Like, what are you doing? This looks crazy.

[Tate Frazier]

That's fair.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Meanwhile, on this show, I have a group of three people who've never gone to dinner with me who are always trying to get me into fights with people. Like from Paul. You wanted to bring on Tom Segura to be another thing that is never happening.

[Tate Frazier]

We wanted to bring him on as a guest, and you decided to start insulting him for no reason to make it a thing.

[Van Lathan]

Can't be honest with you. You can't be honest with you.

[Joel Anderson]

This is the.

[Van Lathan]

That gets on my nerves. Joel is now playing the victim when it's Joel who did

[Joel Anderson]

all of this stuff comes from you. I didn't know who he was. That's. That wasn't. Somebody told me. Who was I talking to? They said that he lives in Austin. They were like, yo, he does.

[Van Lathan]

He lives in Austin.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yeah. Dave Wilson. Shout him out. He works at espn. My boy. Yeah, he. He said his wife ran into Thompson girl because I called it. Actually, the funny thing in the text,

[Tate Frazier]

well, it led us to Bill Bellamy. So that's the silver line.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, that's the important thing. That's the important thing. But yeah, y' all just always trying to throw me out there. And so anyway, the whole point is for the field day, whoever can can get it. You know what I'm saying?

[Tate Frazier]

But you said there were some specific people that you want to raise. How can we get them there to race you?

[Joel Anderson]

If that's a good point. It's the most important, important thing is for me to beat Billy. All the other don't matter. But the one on ones is what I'm talking about, dog. Like, I'm really excited about. But again, not going to happen. You said Van has said the exact same thing. I bet if we stitch together, if free is stitched together, highlight tape. And when I say field day is not happening. And Van is like, actually, it is going to happen. And I've got some people willing to put some money on it and make this.

[Van Lathan]

Put it on my dad is happening. Well, I'm telling you, is, is. Is.

[Commercial Announcer]

Is.

[Van Lathan]

Is happening. What's gonna happen is you gonna cuck out.

[Joel Anderson]

Look, bro, look, I promise.

[Van Lathan]

What's happening is you're gonna cook out.

[Joel Anderson]

No, no, no.

[Commercial Announcer]

I'.

[Joel Anderson]

Ma.

[Tate Frazier]

I think you should get Joel's dad barbecue.

[Commercial Announcer]

Wow.

[Tate Frazier]

And we stream lives and he watches

[Joel Anderson]

still again, another thing that's never gonna happen. So I'm gonna do that for him.

[Van Lathan]

You know what I mean? What is. What is a little ass. He was short. I'm gonna have that delivered. I'm gonna have that delivered on Juneteenth as a Juneteenth present to my og. Your dad is an og, and he deserves it. On Juneteenth.

[Joel Anderson]

An Allstate, you know, football player. You know what I'm saying?

[Van Lathan]

Where do you play college ball at, man?

[Joel Anderson]

So he went to a school called Euron College in South Dakota. And he went up there for one semester. He's like, yeah, I couldn't do it. He said he didn't have a coat. He didn't have a coat either. So when he was up there, he was cold. So my dad comes back home to Texas. And then that's not long after that. He got drafted, had to go to Vietnam, came back, you know, whatever. But yeah, man, worked three jobs. He worked. He worked for Southern Pacific, now Union Pacific for, you know, 30, 40 years, some like that. Yeah, man. To work with his hands. I always said if my dad had had the benefit of my life, if he had come to your general, he would have been a writer. He was somebody that did things.

[Commercial Announcer]

He's.

[Joel Anderson]

He's a reader.

[Van Lathan]

And my daddy played college.

[Joel Anderson]

Just.

[Van Lathan]

Just let everybody know my daddy played in college.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay, what year?

[Van Lathan]

What year?

[Joel Anderson]

What year? What year did your dad play in college? In what college?

[Van Lathan]

75 Southern Place.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Okay.

[Joel Anderson]

It's a different. It was a different time, man. My dad, he graduated in like, 64. So just think about it. Very few.

[Van Lathan]

Damn.

[Joel Anderson]

Very few schools had integrated by then, you know what I'm saying? Like, across the South. And so there was a pipeline from his school, Langston, in Hot Springs, Arkansas. And apparently a guy had gone up there the year before to play for the year on college. And I looked this up. They would call the Savages. You're on college Savages.

[Tate Frazier]

All right, last. Let's get into headlines of the week. There's some headlines in college football. Let's get into it. Let's start here. Sarkeesian, he came out. Steve Sarkeesian came out and said he is not ruling out the possibility of Arch Manning returning to Texas in 2027. Here's the quote, a lot of quotes from Sark, this office. He said, quote, you know, we haven't had the discussion, but I will tell you, I would not be surprised. I think Arch really loves college football. I really do. I think he loves the University of Texas. He does pretty good through Nil. He's got some pretty good endorsements going right now, which is a credit to him. In quote, Van, do you believe Sark or is this even more of a reason to maybe not believe in Arch Manning?

[Van Lathan]

I don't know what to believe.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, me either.

[Van Lathan]

I'm not. I'm not really sure what the purpose of saying this is. Like, it seems like you would want to leave everything on the field as it regards as, you know, as it's regarding to Arch. But if you're saying this, doesn't it seem like you're saying that he's still a work in progress? Am I wrong to think that that's

[Tate Frazier]

reading between the lines?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. My thought was that he's saying he doesn't need the money. Both of the guy. Both of the quarterbacks that preceded him, and I guess Archie, too, stayed all four years in college, you know, so the Mannings are just sort of guys that really appreciate the college experience and they also probably are aware of the fact that the only real correlation between college success and professional success as it relates to quarterbacks is like, snaps, you know what I'm saying? Like, how many. How many reps you actually get in college. Right. And it's not even that determinative, but, like, it wouldn't hurt him to stay in college for, you know, two more years, which would be three years of playing. And, you know, he did. Money's not a concern. He. They are. Austin is a. I mean, I talk a lot of shit about the University of Texas, but it's a. It's a fun place to be a student is probably. Especially if you're Archie or Arch Manning. So, yeah, I could.

[Commercial Announcer]

I.

[Joel Anderson]

It. It. I'm surprised he would say it like Van said, because it's like there's no even. No need to even get into that. But I think what he's saying makes sense. Like, if you think about who the Mannings are.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, it does fit the Manning mold a little bit, but just weird to say that before the season Remember last year, Archie, his grandpa came out and said he would not be going to the NFL draft the following season. That was also an interesting comment, but it might just go back to the Manning mold and what they're trying to, you know, put out there for their son. Next up, Dabo Sweeney weighed in on the chaos surrounding college football. He said, quote, the only thing worse than having no. Than having no rules is having rules you can't enforce or don't enforce. He basically went on to say, I don't think any of us thought we'd be in a world where there's no order. It's a much bigger conversation now. Even in the NFL, there are rules. You can't sign with the Browns and go practice for two weeks and the Dolphins call you up and say, hey, man, what are they paying you? We'll pay you a million more. Come on down to the Dolphins. And then you go in there and say, hey, boys, I'm out. So referencing what happened with their linebacker who ended up going to.

[Joel Anderson]

Is that who.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, Dabo Sweeney, do you buy this? Is this jaded? Is this salty? Van, your thoughts on Dabo's comments?

[Van Lathan]

Dabo's comments seem a little hollow. And nobody gives a fuck what Dabo has to say anymore.

[Joel Anderson]

Wow.

[Van Lathan]

But Dabo has kind of lost his I can speak for college football credentials. Dabo ain't on that level anymore. What Dabo should be speaking about is the climate of his defensive line.

[Joel Anderson]

Damn.

[Van Lathan]

He should be speaking about the climate of his receivers and the climate of his offensive line. I expect Clemson to be better this year, but in order to kind of pull the whole. I'm a spokesman for what's wrong in college football or what's right in college football, you have to have an organizational success and the consistency that Clemson just does not have right now. So as far as for what he's saying, yeah, it's the wild, wild west in college football. The, the, the. The answer to the question is, what will be better if the west gets less wild? Does anything get better and who does it get better for? So, you know, yeah, they're rules. I mean, places have rules. Me and Joel are going to talk about the salary cap. Joel doesn't seem to understand the NBA salary cap.

[Tate Frazier]

Should we talk.

[Joel Anderson]

No.

[Tate Frazier]

Should we talk about that right now?

[Van Lathan]

Let's not get to it right now. But I wanna. Because I want to hear what Joel has to say about Dabo. But, like, when I, When I saw this, I was kind of like, I don't know why Dabble talking, man. It seems like Dabo should have other things to do regarding his football team rather than, you know, kind of give these state of college football conversations. I know he was asked though, actually.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, that is what Dabo is probably more known for now, like complaining about the state of college football and that kind of stuff. Like, I mean, you know, and I, I wouldn't say that he doesn't have standing to talk anymore. I mean, the dude still has two national championships. He was in the playoff a year ago, you know, so he's not totally lost it. But it's Clemson. The reason that we would say that is because Clemson is not to the level that only he had taken it quite anymore. So I feel like he still has the authority to talk about this. But again, Dabo is right. Like if you, you know, you can't just leave the Dolphins and go to the Browns or whatever. And you know why? Because all those athletes have collectively bargained contracts.

[Tate Frazier]

Right?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Right. So if you sign a contract in the NFL, then you can hold on to your player. Right. And so like that's. I'm Dabo. The answer has been in front of your face the whole time. Welcome, you know, welcome, welcome, welcome to the revolution.

[Van Lathan]

Let me ask you this. What do you think is more advantageous to you? To you, Joel, to you, Tate? What's a better situation just for college football, a college football landscape where things are more rigorous but the players have collectively bargained that stuff? Or do you think the players actually stand to have more agency and make more money and be able to move freely more with things the way they are right now?

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, I absolutely believe they should. They don't like. The thing is, it's going to change. Like something is going to change and they're going to get some sort of structure to it. And I'd rather them be at the table than not. But unquestionably this is a much better time for athletes. Like they're going to athletes for sure.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

They're going to have to give up. They'll have to give up something when they bargain. Right.

[Van Lathan]

What will they give up to you? What do you think?

[Joel Anderson]

Well, mobility. Right. They'll give them.

[Tate Frazier]

I think they're going to be like in two year locked in deals, something like that.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, they'll give up. So, so the transfer portal will be significantly impacted by this. In, in your opinion, will they give up eligibility as well in order for. And then what will they get? Because if they, if we're talking about what they're Giving up in a collectively bargain.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

You're.

[Van Lathan]

You're collectively bargaining for the college football players. Joel, what are you asking for?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, I mean, I want them to have guaranteed contracts. I want them to have. You know, to be honest, I don't have a problem with the transfer portal. I think it's fine. Like, if, again, if we're going to pretend that this is college football, then any student on your campus can transfer without penalty for any reason whatsoever.

[Van Lathan]

Absolutely.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Sure.

[Van Lathan]

And so when you transfer, do you give the money back?

[Joel Anderson]

Well, that's a good question. I mean, that was something you'd have bargained, like, you know what I'm saying? So you would have a buyout in your contract. If you did it this way, there would be some sort of rules for it, and everybody. It would be more transparent. So if they really do care about the kids who are being taken advantage of by agents or getting bad advice, a union allows you to strengthen the standards around that stuff and to make, you know, to set a bar somewhere to where you can make sure. Oh, these agents have to. To go through this sort of certification process if they want to do that, because it would probably. You're right, Van. It's better right now. And changing to a CBA probably would be. You know, the athletes would be giving up something. But, like, if I'm a college football administrator, like, doesn't that sound better than just whining about this shit and losing players every year and, you know, it

[Van Lathan]

seems better to have something on paper that everybody is okay with so that the game can start to enter into an era of some sort of normalcy.

[Joel Anderson]

Exactly.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. The players just need to be at the table, though. Yeah, that's really what it comes down to, because then it at least feels some semblance of fair. I'm not going to say that both sides. I mean, honestly, if both sides feel like that they don't like the deal, that probably means it's the closest thing to fair. And I think that's where you hope they get to at some point. But it's funny because, like, the message from Dabo I get, but it's just the messenger has, you know, he's. He's saying it for different reasons, and probably what most people with that message are saying it was for. He's saying it because he's like, he wants to go back to the old way, which is, you know, the cat's out of the bag.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, it's. And it's understandable why he liked it the way that it was. It Was very lucrative.

[Tate Frazier]

Advantageous for him.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Clemson was a better program when the rules were different. Right. You didn't have. He didn't have to deal with the transfer portal, which is something that he really does not interested in doing right now. And you kind of got to do that to be a top level team. So, yeah, it was much better for him in the old way. So I believe he's sincere in his beliefs that it was better. But I think what he's conflating is the idea that it was really good for me. I don't know about the athletes.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. Which kind of says a lot about, you know, the stance that he has there. But again, I think the message is correct. There needs to be some sort of semblance of rules. But it is a bit of a mess right now. We'll figure it out, though, as we move forward. Next up, SMU's Kevin Jennings, quarterback for SMU, said that he's aiming for more than just a CFP appearance heading into his final season. He said, quote, I'm not just trying to get back to the playoff. We're trying to go all the way. That's our main goal. We're not trying to just go there. We're trying to compete, finish, and win at a high level. That's the number one goal. Just to put SMU on the map even more. Joel, this is your rival. Your thoughts on SMU saying they want to get to the top.

[Joel Anderson]

That's cute, man. I'm excited for. I hope they. I hope they can get on our level again, Doc. Nah, I mean, look, you know, the only way you can get there is to believe you can get there. And I. So. Well, the. The two stories I tell is when I first started playing football at TCU and I. I was like a late commit, you know, Nobody. It was TCU that was gonna have to go Division 3 schools or like some FCs.

[Tate Frazier]

Really?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

So TCU was your only D1 offer?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't have a lot of. Yeah. So, like, it was. For me, it was TCU or I was gonna go to Morehouse.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

See.

[Van Lathan]

I know.

[Joel Anderson]

Or Morehouse like I wanted to go to. Shut up, Tay T. I know he's dissing me. I mean, tape, man, you. No, I'm not.

[Van Lathan]

What was.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm trying to think about what you said you were gonna. It felt like you were gonna defend me today. And it just.

[Tate Frazier]

I was doing a call back. You know what I mean?

[Joel Anderson]

It never works out. But anyway, I was at. I was at cc, so Anyway, I'm. I'm meeting. You know, really the first time I'm meeting the guys when I get on campus. And I remember one day we're sitting around in the lounge area of our dorm. There's a bunch of us, and I feel like there's some girls there, too. I don't know why they're. Anyway, but we were just sitting there talking about, like, what it would take, like, for TC to go to national championship game. Like, seriously, like, we. We. They had just come off a 6 and 5 season, which was, like, hailed as one of the great recent seasons in TCU football history. And now that we're in the 16 team whack. And they're sitting around like, yeah, man, you know, we. I mean, we just win a few games, we could be in a national championship. And I'm. My dumb ass comes in being like, we couldn't. Like, we'd have to go, like, undefeated for, like, three years. And like, no, we're not going undefeated. And I do was like, well, you would say that. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're not going to play. And I was like, damn. Motherfucker had a point.

[Van Lathan]

Damn, that nigga put you in a motherfucking.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, he put me in the blender, man. You know, with the singer.

[Van Lathan]

God damn.

[Joel Anderson]

I was arguing, like, if I was.

[Van Lathan]

If I. If I heard that, I'd have been like, that's tough. Yeah, I know, I know.

[Joel Anderson]

But you know what? But I deserved it in retrospect, because I was like, oh, I was talking like a journalist or a top pundit and not a football player. And, like, that's probably why my career did not last very long, because I just didn't have that sort of belief. And I think to be great, especially in sports, you've got to have, like, this ingrained belief, irrational confidence. Yeah. Just a rational confidence that we can do something. And the thing about Kevin Jennings, man, like, his own personal story is crazy. Like, he was a starting quarterback for the first Dallas ISD football team to win a state championship in, like, 60 years. Like, Dallas ISD had not filled at a state.

[Van Lathan]

So then. So then he's. It's a part of his DNA to believe that he's done it. Longstanding streaks.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, he's done it. Like, he elevated that school. Now it's a state power again. So if you did that, I could understand why you'd be like, well, shit, answer. We got the money. We're in a good city. We can get. It's easy to get. We got athletes all around us, and we can get people to want to come here. I mean, also, you know, shout out to my dogs, you know, saying, kenneth Emo, you know, my aj, my cousin Jamil Anthony, you know, Ramon Flanagan. I used to hang out on SMU's campus when I was at TCU and I, you know, I, you know, saying they got some things to recruit to there, so. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Billy.

[Joel Anderson]

What?

[Van Lathan]

Like, what do you feel like? Joel is. Oh, I know. What? Oh, I know. They got white women.

[Joel Anderson]

Stop it. No, actually, I'm gonna.

[Van Lathan]

You up.

[Joel Anderson]

Let's go.

[Van Lathan]

Look it up.

[Joel Anderson]

No, no, no, no.

[Van Lathan]

Look it up.

[Tate Frazier]

It was given a he got game.

[Joel Anderson]

SMU had three of the five most attractive black women I saw in college.

[Van Lathan]

College, like, because they were white women.

[Joel Anderson]

No, they were black.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm telling you. And I remember their names, too.

[Tate Frazier]

Don't say the name.

[Joel Anderson]

There's not very many of them. But the ones that I saw, and it's particularly on campus, were bad. Like, look, I'll just be like, at that part of my life. I didn't. That wasn't something I like. I kind of thought you a sellout if you did that. You know what I'm saying? I was like, Doctor, 7%.

[Van Lathan]

It's 7% black at SMU. Well, 7% black.

[Joel Anderson]

So that's what you're going. It was. It's an extremely high percentage. I understand, but I'm just saying that's how I went. And the other two were from the University of Texas, which, again, not very many, but others that are there, they got some hitters, you know what I'm saying?

[Tate Frazier]

So LSU, they pack a punch.

[Van Lathan]

19. LSU, 19. Black Tiger.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, I've seen something go on there, too.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

Back in the day, you know what I'm saying? Track team, when. Why was it when I was coming up nuts. Yeah, yeah. They were stars of the show when they showed TCU.

[Van Lathan]

Is TCU just 4% black. It's 4%.

[Joel Anderson]

Is it? Man, that's better than it was when I was there. Yeah, that's better than G. Yes. Tough.

[Tate Frazier]

Well, there you go. Kevin Jennings sending out a statement to the People. Next up, James Franklin also sent it on a statement. He said that basically he is selling. He doesn't have to sell the Virginia Tech vision. He said, quote, we're not a first time head coach trying to share a story. There's that. There's no evidence for. We've got a ton of evidence. We've done in the sec, we've done it in the Big Ten, and we're coming to do it in the acc. Van, do you believe James Franklin?

[Van Lathan]

Yes, I believe that.

[Tate Frazier]

Me too.

[Van Lathan]

In my opinion, Virginia Tech is a proud football tradition with a legendary coach, with legendary players. The Virginia Tech that I've always known is a school that would always be a great program and flirted with at times being an elite program. We're talking about a program that played a national championship game. Um, the. The. Absolutely. And so, like, as far as him, there's nothing to really restore as much as there is. Virginia Tech has to remember who and what it is.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. I think he's got to just remind people.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

If. If he can do that, that he can go on a long run there just like Beamer and really have the. The. The. The program of flirting with prominence in. In. Especially in this particular college football landscape we're in right now.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. And also that stadium. If you've never been in Lane Stadium, it's an incredible atmosphere, and you've never been intimidated by people doing the Hokey Pokey in your life until you go to Lane Stadium. Yeah, man, they. They get down, and that is a. A very insane atmosphere. So. Oh, yeah, I think it's all there for the taking.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, man. I mean, and look at the acc. I mean, who do they look at? And they say, they should be better than us. Every year, maybe Miami. They may look at Miami and say, well, that's. You know, we got to recruit against them. They've got that advantage. You know, they got the infrastructure and the nil rolling and everything. But then, I mean, you know, after that, we talk smu, Duke. I mean, who was the ACC champion last year, by the way? North Carolina?

[Tate Frazier]

Virginia?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. I mean, Virginia Tech doesn't look at any of those schools and think, oh, you know, we could never. We could never beat them like they should be, or they could be that second or, you know, one of the two or three top elite teams there. And I mean, Frank, I know James Franklin got fired, but he's a good football coach, man. Like, he was. Yeah, yeah, Penn State was really good. He ran into a really bad. He ran into a real bad stretch of luck there last year and lost his job at a place where people were just kind of getting impatient with him. But when you step back and look at his record, James Franklin is a damn good football coach, man.

[Van Lathan]

So, yeah, he is going to have them in it and winning the ACC in it and winning the ACC very soon.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

They're gonna be right there.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Right there in the ACC for sure. Now Miami's a son of a bitch because I think Miami's just going to get stronger.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Over the next couple of seasons, you know, we'll see what they do next year. But I think that Miami is probably here to stay with. The way Crystal Ball or Cristobal builds teams down there, I think that Miami's going to be around, but James Franklin is going to have Virginia Tech, get Virginia Tech going. It's not going to take as long as people think they will. Will be.

[Tate Frazier]

Oh, yeah, I'm right there with you. I think it's a great hire. I think it's great that he's kind of sending that message out to the people. And Virginia Tech is a cool football team. So when they are good, I think it's good for the college, you know, football business. So I'm excited to see what they do up in Blacksburg. There's not much else going on in Blacksburg.

[Joel Anderson]

I was gonna say Blacksburg. Like, I've never. That's a place I've not been.

[Tate Frazier]

It's. I mean, Virginia Tech. That's what it is. I mean, it's in the middle of nowhere. So I've been to three games in Blacksburg in my life.

[Joel Anderson]

What's the nice. What do you stay.

[Tate Frazier]

I think I stay at like a Fairfield Inn or something, you know, like,

[Van Lathan]

I'm talking about this.

[Joel Anderson]

This picture right here does not give me a lot of confidence on you. How popping it is. This looks like. This looks like Pullman Washington, to be honest.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, it's. It's nothing going on other than Virginia Tech. So.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay.

[Tate Frazier]

If it's going. It's.

[Van Lathan]

I'll be honest with you. Sometimes those are the best college towns.

[Joel Anderson]

College towns. That's right.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. For sure.

[Joel Anderson]

They run.

[Van Lathan]

Those are the best ones. If there's too much going on, Baton Rouge is a pretty good college town. But Baton Rouge might be slightly too big to be a great college town. But the best college towns are where the school takes up most of the oxygen.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Yep.

[Tate Frazier]

100.

[Van Lathan]

Blacksburg look like the type of place.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Last bird.

[Joel Anderson]

What's up, dog? Well, you look like you, like, you think the white women there kind of more your liking, you know what I'm saying?

[Tate Frazier]

They're a little bit like country up there, you know what I mean? They're a little bit.

[Van Lathan]

Blackburg looked like the type of place where it was tough for us back in the day, bro.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, man. Well, hold on. Look it up. Let's go. Look it up.

[Van Lathan]

Like any town where. Anytime where it look like the sheriff will come off and go, come out and talk to you and go. We got nice people in this town. Quiet people, people that keep to themselves.

[Joel Anderson]

See, I've Surely they've had some interesting.

[Van Lathan]

It's beautiful, though. Hold on. This is a beautiful place, dog. But, like, bro, America is beautiful, bro.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, that's what everyone's saying in the World Cup. Like, all these fans, I mean, they're coming out there being like, man, we have never seen any of these pictures of America. It's actually beautiful. So it's a nice. You know.

[Van Lathan]

What is this? This looks like. What is this? This looks like the outdoors. You have the. The New river in Blacksburg.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, it's like an outside.

[Van Lathan]

This looks gorgeous, dog.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, man. Oh, it's beautiful. Yeah. If you look at them. And you know what? I actually know, especially living in D.C. now, the DMV, there's a lot of people around here that went to Tech and black folks, and they seem to like that place. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, everyone's very.

[Tate Frazier]

Everyone's very nice. Yeah, That's. That's a takeaway.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay.

[Tate Frazier]

And then, like, you know, a Roanoke is close by. Roanoke. Roanoke is a nice town.

[Joel Anderson]

I've never been there, but. Shout out Roanoke. Paul Barringer, who served as Tex president from 1907 to 1913, wrote a 1900 speech called the American Negro His Past and Future, in which he argued that, quote, savage black Americans had been improved by slavery. He advocated for political disenfranchisement and the prohibition of black people from becoming teachers or pursuing higher education. The young Negro of the south, except where descended from parents of exceptional character and worth, is reverting through hereditary forces to savagery. There's more, but.

[Tate Frazier]

And this is from Blacksburg.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. That's rough.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

Billy said yes.

[Van Lathan]

That's. That's the answers, bro.

[Tate Frazier]

I don't think James Franklin wants to read that.

[Van Lathan]

I'm gonna tell y' all something. Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, we get a bad rap, and rightfully so. But over there, bro, between the Essence in North Carolina and right there in Virginia, bro, y' all don't get. Y'. All. Y' all don't get enough. Y' all don't get enough. That's why I'm glad. I remember the Titans came out. That was Virginia, right?

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, it was Virginia. And then. And then, guess where. Guess where Herman Boone came from, though? North Carolina.

[Joel Anderson]

What?

[Van Lathan]

You know, see what I'm saying?

[Tate Frazier]

Herman Boone had to come up there to Virginia and teach him what Was up.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, man.

[Van Lathan]

I'm looking at Blacksburg here. Music, arts and culture. Music and nightlife. It's nice. Blacksburg is nice, man. That. That's. That's tough with soldiers. Red.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

Congressional candidate voices support for Virginia Tech professor who was the subject of an alleged racist attack. Oh, man.

[Tate Frazier]

All right. Well, I. I mean, you know, again, Lane Stadium, the atmosphere is good. This other stuff, not so good.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, wait. They say a group of white teen. Okay, this is a New York Post story. So they're a little. A group of white teens were cleared of hate crime allegations after a black Virginia Tech presser whined to cops he was a victim of a racist attack when they blasted rap music and dumped snow near his home.

[Van Lathan]

Disgusting.

[Tate Frazier]

Wind is. Wine is a crazy verb to use.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, it's the New York Post, you know?

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, that's like. That's. That's. Read between the lines. You see what kind of. The side that they're on there. Tough.

[Van Lathan]

Tough stuff.

[Joel Anderson]

Virginia Tech, we're not thinking on you. We could do that with any college, you know. No. No offense.

[Van Lathan]

You know, I would say my college is a Tigers.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

The only college we haven't done, really, is TCU, but we gonna do it.

[Tate Frazier]

4%. The 4 percenters.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, man. I mean, support percent. That's better, man. I was one of these people to help build it up. Did I ever tell y' all I was on the. The application?

[Tate Frazier]

Are you the Nick Saban of tcu?

[Joel Anderson]

I was on the application for admission in the year 2000. They had me put me on there with, like, five other people. I didn't used to have it right under my desk here. I don't know where that is.

[Van Lathan]

But anyway, they put Joel on the application, and they were like, as you can see, we've tamed our Negroes.

[Joel Anderson]

I was a campus leader, Van. I was. I'd won the leadership. I won two leadership awards, and I was the editor of the student newspaper there.

[Tate Frazier]

Go ahead.

[Joel Anderson]

That was a big deal.

[Van Lathan]

You were the Obama a tcu?

[Joel Anderson]

I wouldn't say that. But, you know, the editor of the Harvard. Yeah. I ended up making a name for myself doing. Not on the football field. I went pro in something other than sports.

[Tate Frazier]

You know, I'm writing that down in my notes. Joel's the Obama. Tc.

[Joel Anderson]

No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't go that far.

[Tate Frazier]

Right.

[Joel Anderson]

I wasn't that. I mean, I was not a popular person. I'm just saying. But I was known to the administration.

[Tate Frazier]

There you go. Shout out to you. Last one in our top five, army has signed a jersey patch on field logo sponsorship deal with usaa. So I mean, army football is now getting into the game of sponsorship. So that's, that's college sports right there. You know, if you're ever wondering about if it's pro sports or what, I mean, I think army football signing a logo sponsorship deal and having an on field logo says it right there.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm a USA client. Have been for how many years they, they do my car and house insurance.

[Tate Frazier]

Well, we told, we told you to get aaa, but you turn your nose

[Joel Anderson]

up to triple A usa, man. The, this, the, the, the emergency service is, is really good. Like I never, I've never had to wait very long. It's really easy. You can just get on your phone, hit the app, bam. Usa, man. It's a good, it's a good bank.

[Tate Frazier]

Usa.

[Joel Anderson]

Usa.

[Tate Frazier]

Listen, listen to the show. Maybe sponsor.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, man, come on, throw us a little, throw us a little cake, man, so they can do this field day. We never going to do.

[Tate Frazier]

We're going to do the field day. One last thing before we get out of here. One big debate. This is Joel and Van and we don't have time for, you know, just quickly. Jalen Brunson taking less money to win a championship obviously is a big sticking point. Talking point. Whatever you want to say throughout the week. Joel Van on opposite sides of the line here talking about Jalen Brunson. Van, I'll turn it over to you. What are your thoughts when you hear this Jalen Brunson talk?

[Van Lathan]

It's not even that we on opposite sides of the line is that the NBA has a salary cap.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Yeah, right.

[Van Lathan]

And it has a salary cap that has a second apron. Will you explain the second apron to people? Tate,

[Tate Frazier]

you're talking to the wrong guy. I'm not, I'm not a, I'm not a front office guy. Basically, once you get in the first apron, why did you get the second apron? You're in trouble. That's all I know. All I know is you have to trade away all your. You have to. Yeah, it's a hard cap.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, the second acre. The second apron is basically a hard cap. Right? So Joel is right. For years and years and years you could pay into the luxury you can pay into. The second apron is basically now a hard cap. So any relief that you can give your, your team salary is relief that they can use to sign other guys if you, if you want to win. They were talking about the fact that Jalen Brunson did this. Right. Jalen Brunson took less money so that the Knicks could sign OG Anunoby so that the Knicks could sign all of these different players that ended up helping to win a championship. Something that the Knicks winning the championship and Jalen Brunson being the finals MVP has led to Jalen Brunson ascending into NBA superstardom. It has led to Jalen Brunson being put as one of the top 50 NBA players of all time on the Bill Simmons big basketball board of basketball players. The pyramid. It's something that's led to Jalen Brunson now becoming one of the most known and potentially marketable players in all of the.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yeah, man. You know, they're not very famous until they win.

[Van Lathan]

It is the. It is the. It is the birthing right now nationwide of a brand new basketball star. And Joel thinks it was a stupid thing to do.

[Joel Anderson]

That's. That is inaccurate. I mean, in the. In the maximum. Okay, so first of all, this is why. This is what I remember. I was like, well, Van got on my nerves, dog. Where he. He threw my tweet back at me. Okay, the one.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, because you were arguing about this online.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, I argued about it online.

[Tate Frazier]

Remember what you said last week, though? You weren't gonna argue anymore.

[Joel Anderson]

Just don't even get me started.

[Tate Frazier]

Took about 24 hours.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, I mean, I really do. I told you. They. They annoyed me so much on Blue Sky. I think I might be down with Blue Sky.

[Tate Frazier]

Oh, wow.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm sick of the dog. You can't say, man, where else you

[Tate Frazier]

have to go at this point?

[Joel Anderson]

Do you know what the argument was? It was about. It was so. I'm trying. It was. I was. I just said something about Twitter and somebody was like, wow, I'm surprised you're over there. That's run by a Nazi. And I was just like, well, you know, look, I understand people who could. If that's what they want to do. I. I say I'm sort of other mind. And I know that I'm not being literal. I'm being figurative. I was like, I believe the people on Twitter. I think it's. It was a. Basically about as close to a public utility as you could get for a social media app. And I still know a lot of people on there that I like. I let it go until you brought me back onto Twitter. And so anyway, the whole point. The whole point was that I could.

[Tate Frazier]

The accountability.

[Joel Anderson]

The whole point was that Twitter was. In Twitter.

[Tate Frazier]

We're Cincinnati.

[Joel Anderson]

The thing about Twitter. The thing about Twitter is Like, all right, look, I'll do it. I. I think about leaving it all the time. And. And on Blue sky, it was like, oh, you sound like a right wing chud. And so on and so forth and all this other shit. Calling me a chud.

[Tate Frazier]

I didn't know they talk like that on Blue Sky.

[Joel Anderson]

I was like, bro, like, what the fuck? I'm not of your culture. I don't even know what the fuck a CHUD is, okay? And then I'm just like, is all these white.

[Tate Frazier]

Obama also might be a right wing

[Joel Anderson]

coming at me over some bullshit? Like, it's not even. I don't think it's that deep. And again, as I was trying to say, as a black man in this country, I'm always. I'm making a series of. Did you just hear who the president of Virginia Tech was a few minutes ago? Once upon a time. Like, black people are constantly making decisions about institutions and people that hate us and products run by people who hate us. And I'm trying to be. I don't have the time as a consumer to divvy up. Well, man, they were racist here. One time, I boycotted Chick fil A. I didn't say shit about it, but I just didn't go to chick fil a for a long time. And one day, I was at work with my dude at the ajc, and I didn't know he was gay at the time. You know what I'm saying? But as I was like. He was like, you want to go to lunch? And I was like, I'm. You know, I'm trying not to go there, man. Whatever. And he's like, well, I'm gay and I eat chick fil A. You know what I'm saying? I was like, you know what? Let's go to Chickfila. You know what I'm saying? So I started eating chickfila.

[Van Lathan]

I told you. My little brother told me was that. I never told y' all what my little brother said. Little brother came out here, was driving around. I was like, hey, man, stop at chick fil a. I was like, I'm not really fucking with chick fil A, bro. He was like, why? He was like, why? He was like, why ain't. Fuck. I didn't even know y' all had chick fil a in la. I was like, chick fil a is anti LGB slavery. I said. I said, chick fil a is anti lgbt. And he said they could be pro slavery. You said they could be pro slavery.

[Tate Frazier]

Oh, he wants that chicken sandwich.

[Van Lathan]

I'M with the chicken. That chicken is too good. Yeah, I just had to laugh.

[Joel Anderson]

It was good. I remember when it was a big deal to get Chick Fil a. They brought. They have it at the mall. That was the only place you could

[Tate Frazier]

get Chick Fil A. Yeah, I used to drive all the way to Raleigh to get Chick Fil a when I was a kid.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it's crazy. And now when they started making their own little Chick Fil A's, I'm like, nigga, we up the crazy shit. But then I didn't know what they had going on. So you say all that to say, what about the salary cap?

[Joel Anderson]

It was about. Yeah, we were talking about Twitter. Anyway. Yeah. So the whole point of this is that. Yeah. So people were getting on my nerves about it. But then. So Van throws that tweet into our group chat, and I said. And he didn't say anything. Like, he just throws the tweet in there. And so a little bit later, I say, surprised at how controversial the sentiment was. Van responds, because you don't understand teamwork or the salary cap. It's tough. And that tough really set me off. I was like, it all goes like that. This toughest.

[Tate Frazier]

You were the kid in the cherry shirt.

[Joel Anderson]

So disrespectful. Yeah, it was the cherry shirt. When he said, it's tough, I was like, this time. So now I had to. I had to argue with Van. And so I was going back and forth with him and all these other people, and I'm like, look, bro, I understand the reality of the salary cap. I'm not a dummy. I get that Jalen Brunson had did it this way, and it paid off good for him. My larger point is that, A, I don't think the salary cap should exist, and B, in a world in which the salary cap exists, I just don't think. And if I were a union member, work for the, you know, the NBA players union, I'd be like, let's not praise us taking less money to the benefit of the owner. You know what I mean? Like. Like, it's. Baseball doesn't have a salary cap, for instance. Right.

[Van Lathan]

We're about to see.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, we're about to see.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. And so I just. I mean, look, man, do you want, like, you asking the players, do you want to win? I'm talking to the players. Do you want to win or not? Why can't you put your money up, dog? Like, why I got to give money back? You're the billionaire. I only have, at best I've got 15 years to make this money.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

You.

[Joel Anderson]

This is family money you've got, and you've expanded it or whatever. I don't think I should have to take a haircut for you. And I literally just saw this video, a Dwyane Wade talking about looking back on forfeiting, like, $20 million to bring in Brian and Chris Bosh and Dennis Haslam. And he said. I mean, I remember he said, money don't come back, people. You can make more, but you ain't getting that money back. You can't recruit money. And remember, Wade is a co owner of the Jazz now. And he was like, you know, I don't think. I don't think I would have done that now, like, if someone on the other side of it, I didn't have to give that money up. So I. Again, I. Congratulations for Jalen Brunson.

[Tate Frazier]

But the money he gave up ended up going to LeBron, which is why he's probably.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. I mean, Braun just left they ass. He just went back to Cleveland.

[Van Lathan]

So, I mean, so. So. So, yeah, I think that's an excellent example. This is what I would say, number one, I'm for capping everybody's money. The only thing that, to me is different is that the. Yeah, I am. Like, if I was president.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Yeah,

[Van Lathan]

if I was president, I would tax you at 90% everything. You made over $3 million.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And then I would build roads and schools and give people health care.

[Joel Anderson]

That's whatever.

[Van Lathan]

So that's not. That's not a thing. But. So I do think it's. It's an unfair situation that in the. In the aggregate, that the players are capped and the owners aren't in an open market. LeBron James is probably making $300 million a year. Right. The other leagues, soccer leagues, where the players do make that. The question then would be Cristiano Ronaldo.

[Tate Frazier]

We talked about it last week.

[Van Lathan]

Ronaldo. Right. The question would be is if he made 300 or $400 million a year. A year. I'm saying is with there being NBA, the, like, you know, the. The. The Saudis have. When you look at that league, they have a sovereign wealth fund that, like, is trillions of dollars. So, like, it's not. The money isn't.

[Tate Frazier]

And they're just sports washing their money.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah. Sports washing that money. It's tied to the price of oil. So. So. But all of that's a separate argument. It's an economic argument about how viable any of this stuff would be if there weren't some kind of controls on it. That's. But, but I'm not even getting into that argument. What I'm saying is even in the case of Dwyane Wade, I could see what Dwyane Wade was talking about. Because when LeBron James came, Dwyane Wade was already a champion. Dwyane Wade, those two championships in Miami didn't really do anything for Dwyane Wade.

[Jeffrey Kessler]

They didn't.

[Van Lathan]

He won championships as the second guy on the team.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

And was really the first guy on the first team. Like the year they lost to Dallas, he was kind of the first. First guy still.

[Van Lathan]

So I'm. So I'm saying is from a little

[Joel Anderson]

like it be coming out sometimes. You know what I'm saying?

[Tate Frazier]

I just tell the truth. I mean, I watch.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

So I mean the.

[Joel Anderson]

In the North Carolina Jordan thing, I don't know if it's that.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Whatever the. It is not with him.

[Tate Frazier]

I watch.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, but, but, but what I'm saying is that like in that situation, if you're looking at him and the championships, I mean, being a three time champion is a lot different than being a one time champion. But even still, you have two championships where you were the second guy. If those, it was all about LeBron James. If those championships didn't really do anything for your legacy, then the money is more valuable to you. But if you're Jalen Brunson and you go from I am not a champion as the lead dog on an NBA franchise, to being vaulted into conversations with a rarefied air of guys, to being in a situation where you score 45 in an elimination game, the last guy to do some shit like that, that was a guard was Michael Jordan. So where people are talking about you alongside Dirk, alongside other guys who were able to lead their team to championships as league, as league players.

[Tate Frazier]

Giannis Kawhi.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, Giannis Kawhi. That's worth it. That's worth it for him. For Dwyane Wade, it might not be worth it because Dwyane Wade might look back on it and go, yo, I played two times, like two different years with this guy. He got all the glory and I basically paid him. But for somebody like Jalen Brunson, he has now been elevated to Dwyane Wade's status because of what just happened. So like. Well, the question is as, as, as right now, as Dame Lillard right now, if he would pay $30 million for an MVP. I don't know.

[Joel Anderson]

But see, the thing is. So ask Tom Brady. Tom Brady cut Bob Kraft a break on deals for years. Like he.

[Van Lathan]

They.

[Joel Anderson]

He played with some. Not the talent that a quarterback of his talent and success probably demanded, but he gave the Patriots a break on stuff on. On his contract so that they could build out the team. And he was pissed. He ended up being pissed even though he wasn't championships, but it still frustrated him. And then at the end of the day, when he wanted contract, they're like, nah. And that's how he ended up in Tampa Bay.

[Van Lathan]

So again, I get. Yeah, I get that. But there is no. And I get how he feels. There is no way to objectively argue that that didn't work out for Tom Brady. He has seven

[Jeffrey Kessler]

Super Bowls. That is so od.

[Van Lathan]

That is worse.

[Joel Anderson]

He may think he could have got 9 or 10, he may think he could have got 9 or 10, but

[Van Lathan]

9 or 10, if they pay him more and they have less for the team.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, I mean, he's not. Well, you're gonna be like, like, you said you were going to take this money to make the team better, and you didn't. And that's the thing about the Jalen Brunson thing. It worked out for Jalen. It does not always work out like that for every athlete that's willing to.

[Tate Frazier]

Also, his godfather is the one who's running the team. So, like, he does have a little bit of trust that there. Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

It's not the same for everybody else. And you can't. You can make that sacrifice and it probably might not work out. And Tom Brady and Dwayne Wade show you that even if you do make that sacrifice, it's like, yeah, man, but that was $20 million, though. Like, they still sitting around on that shit.

[Van Lathan]

I under. I. I understand that. I completely get it. Both Tom Brady and Dwayne Wade are fabulously wealthy from money that they've made and also make a shit ton of money off the court and off the field because of the celebrity that has come to them from the fact that they were premier players in the league that they played in. Now, I'm not saying that people should take less money. I'm not saying that at all. I'm not saying that anyone should take less money. I'm not taking less money for nothing. Like what? I remember one time they asked Ricky Henderson, they was like, yo, Ricky, you know, there's some talk that they might, you know, restructure your contract after this, after this season. Are you okay with that? Ricky Henderson said, well, it depends on what you mean by re a structure recipes. That was one of my favorite Players of all time.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, man.

[Van Lathan]

So. So I get it. I completely understand what you're talking about. I get it. What I'm saying though is that when you are playing sports, if you are playing sports, legacy is a part of that. Especially if you are a Jalen Preston.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Legacy is a part of that. Like as right now he just secured

[Tate Frazier]

his legacy for sure.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

Well, as Russell Westbrook what he would pay. What an NBA championship would be worth. Ask. Ask the you we're talking about worth, right?

[Joel Anderson]

It doesn't work like that for everybody else. It doesn't. It's like the thing is.

[Van Lathan]

I know it's like that everybody else

[Joel Anderson]

seed in the east like he got.

[Van Lathan]

Let me ask you. Let me ask you a question. He was on the third. But like I mean Russell Westbrook and different players like Russell Westbrook was in the finals.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Like even had he had. Even had he won that finals. Ask Charles Barkley with an NBA championship

[Joel Anderson]

always says that he's glad he took.

[Van Lathan]

Wait.

[Joel Anderson]

I think isn't Charles Barkley pretty been clear about I would rather have the money than the championship. I would not sacrifice the champion. I would not sacrifice the money for a championship. But I would like to have had a championship.

[Tate Frazier]

He's also making tons of money.

[Joel Anderson]

He doesn't look at Robert Ori anybody else and be like he's like Charles Barkley Robert or is different.

[Van Lathan]

Robert Ori is not in this conversation.

[Joel Anderson]

Robert, I don't care about you.

[Van Lathan]

Robert. Robert or is not.

[Tate Frazier]

We're talking about one. One A guys, okay?

[Van Lathan]

We're talking about one A guys that never quite get there. And what is it worth to them? Because you can live. You can live and you can be rich and all of that stuff like that. And that mean that means a lot. But there's also a time that this. You can make money for the rest of your life on all different types of things. Dwayne Wade could write a. Dwayne Wade can invest into a liquor brand.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean bro.

[Van Lathan]

Because he is Dwayne way. Hold on, hold on. Listen. Because he is Dwyane Wade and end up making more money than he did his entire Junior Bridgman. All of these people, they made so much money. But what you can't ever do once it's over is do the things on the court and the field that are only there while you're playing.

[Joel Anderson]

And Dwayne Wade is saying. And Dwyane Wade is saying I had all that and I really wish I had that 20 million back. And again, Jalen Brunson can do it and I'm glad it worked out for him. I was excited to see the Knicks win. And you, if you watched Tailgate last

[Van Lathan]

night, he said that.

[Joel Anderson]

I thought they were going to win. You thought I said they were going to win the series. Right. We didn't talk.

[Tate Frazier]

I thought, I thought it was a great, a great series. And I think for Jalen Brunson, I mean, you talk about like American stars, I think solidified. He's one of them.

[Joel Anderson]

But it was, he was fortunate. Some injuries broke. Right.

[Van Lathan]

He bet on himself and he bet

[Joel Anderson]

on himself and he worked out. It's amazing. Everybody's not going to give the tiger

[Van Lathan]

break when it was time to be a Tiger. He was a Tiger, bro. That's what the I'm talking about. I don't know what Joel talking about. I'm excited for Jalen Brunson, crunchtime legend, everybody.

[Joel Anderson]

The rest of y' all take that, take example and think that you gonna be Jalen Brunson. Take the money.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, you're, you're saying it's more of a anomaly than the rule.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, that's an anomaly. Take the money. If, if, if you get the option.

[Tate Frazier]

Well, that's the last. I think that's a nice last thought there for everybody. A fun debate, a fun show. Thanks again to Jeffrey Kessler for coming on the show. I thought he was great. Breaking down his point of view on what happened Brendan Swordsby, and this might be the last time we talk about Brendan Swordsby. So if you don't know who he is, he's been, he's been about three weeks trying to figure out the situation. We did our best on here on Ringer Tailgate. We appreciate everybody tuning in. Shout out to all the Gators out there there for hanging out with us during the off season and we will see you all next week. Must be 21 or older and president. Select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino are 18 and older and President D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 188 78-97777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 247 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE and Y or text HOPE and WHY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-870-7778. Athletic Brewing Co. Crafts award winning non alcoholic beers for those who want to be part of every round. With over 185 flavor awards, they're exceptional NA beers that fit your lifestyle and any social occasion. Summer's full of good times and Athletic fits right in. Go to athleticbrewing.com to have brews delivered to your door or find them at a bar, restaurant or store near near

[Van Lathan]

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