CFB Headlines and a Final Four Preview With Clark Kellogg

Summary

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Ringer Tailgate — April 1, 2026

Episode: CFB Headlines and a Final Four Preview With Clark Kellogg

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Episode Overview

This episode of Ringer Tailgate features the core crew—Tate Frazier, Van Lathan, and Joel Anderson—joined by legendary basketball analyst Clark Kellogg. The focus is a lively preview of the 2026 NCAA Men's Final Four, fresh college football headlines (including the ever-increasing price tags for top programs), and plenty of characteristically hilarious banter and classic "tussle talk." Other topics range from the saga of "raise the roof," to the culture of expectations in blue blood programs, hip-hop arguments, the shifting landscape of NIL/transfer rules, and more.

Tone: Rollicking, irreverent, candid, sharply analytical.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Opening Banter & "Raise the Roof" Saga

• Timestamps: 00:58 — 08:00

• The crew jokes about Joel Anderson's claim to inventing "raise the roof," poking fun at show rivalries and the running bit between Ringer podcasts.

• “They dis you. In your face at your legacy.” — Van Lathan (05:15)

• Joel reflects on internet beefs, defending his honor, and the recently hot online debates:

  "I am that person. And so, of course, it’s sort of hilarious for them to discuss it and think about it in that way." — Joel (05:20)

• Debates between responding to internet disses and letting things roll.

• Storytelling about the bygone era of campus wrestling (“tussling”)—Joel shares a “last tussle” story and self-aware banter on reputation.

2. Music, Culture, and the Jay Z Debate

• Timestamps: 10:00 — 24:50
• The team dives into Joel’s controversial Jay Z takes, the role of social critique in Jay Z’s music, and a future potential debate with hip-hop producer 9th Wonder.
• Extended references to Black Album, culture wars between regional rap fans, and how college musical tastes align with school identities.
• "You want to hear Jay Z talk about it?" — Van Lathan (20:40), referencing desire to see Jay Z address broader critiques.
• Nostalgic reminiscing about first albums (with Mase and CB4 references blending humor and genuine fandom).

3. “Tussle Talk” and Team Dynamics

• Timestamps: 15:34 — 18:29 / 63:26 — 66:41
• Memorable Moment: Joel recounts his “final wrestling match” in college, which degenerated from bravado into a realization about maturing out of “tussling” at 19.
• The show sets up “tussle” culture as a humorous throughline, later extended with Clark Kellogg’s own reflections on commonality of locker room tussles.

4. Clark Kellogg Joins — Final Four Deep Dive

• Timestamps: 40:07 — 71:17

Clark’s Opening Thoughts

• "I'm terrific, guys. Great to be with you. This tournament never disappoints...just a matter of what flavor do you like." — Clark Kellogg (40:21)
• Celebrates unpredictability and shared excitement heading into the finale.

Duke’s Upset and Final Four Field

• Timestamps: 40:47 — 42:01
• Honest assessment of Duke’s collapse ("you give up a 19-point lead...you gotta help that team come back") and why the Final Four still feels right.
• Discussion of teams present: UConn, Illinois, Michigan, Arizona.

Coaching Carousel Speculation

• Timestamps: 42:13 — 43:41
• Joel asks whether successful coaches (Tommy Lloyd, Dustin May) would leave for North Carolina. Clark says the grass isn’t always greener:

  "I'd be hard pressed to think that North Carolina would be better than either one of those spots...I would rather bloom where planted." — Clark Kellogg (42:40)

Michigan–Arizona Preview

• Timestamps: 44:25 — 46:36

• Both teams are “physically imposing...very well coached,” with deep, dominant frontcourts. Clark is especially interested in the matchup because Charles Barkley called it “the Arizona Invitational,” and Clark, as a Big Ten guy, would love to see Michigan change the narrative.

  "Both teams don't have any real weaknesses...hope they give us the kind of game that would be memorable." — Clark Kellogg (44:25)

UConn’s Dan Hurley, Coach Behavior, and Double Standards

• Timestamps: 46:36 — 51:34
• Van asks about the viral “headbutt” moment with Hurley and the different social/media reactions for white vs. Black coaches.
• Clark, while not having seen the full clip, is nuanced:

  “His style isn’t for everyone...I love his authenticity...but I think coaches should have a certain level of comportment...there is a level of self control that you can exercise for the greater good.” — Clark (50:14)

• The team agrees: if coaches ask players for composure, they should also model it.

NBA Draft Preview & Top Prospects

• Timestamps: 51:34 — 54:06
• Strong draft class, but no consensus #1 pick.
• Clark’s top debate: “It’d be between Wilson and DeBonsa for me...good big is better than good little.”
• On Cam Boozer: “Really strong complementary piece at the pro level, not necessarily a franchise piece.”

State of the College Game: NIL, Transfer Rule Turbulence

• Timestamps: 54:27 — 62:40

• College basketball viewership & product are thriving: “Between that 94 by 50 foot box is as good as it’s ever been...as crazy as it is off the court, it’s enhanced what’s between the lines.” — Clark (55:04)

• But he raises concerns: Multiple transfers risk undermining the educational payoff:

  “If you leave the exchange piece of education off the table...you do yourself a disservice. That’s the concern I have.” — Clark (56:34)

• The group debates the fairness of coaches “pushing” players out and why player movement is both a positive and negative.

Locker Room Tussling: Is It Normal?

• Timestamps: 63:26 — 66:08
• Joel asks Clark to weigh in on whether wrestling and fighting among players is common:

  "It's a little more commonplace than you would think." — Clark (64:21) "Usually it's resolved pretty quick within a team environment." — Clark (64:32)

  • Joel is vindicated, but Clark distinguishes friendly roughhousing from actual fights.

All-Time College Final Four Starting Five

• Timestamps: 66:08 — 70:27

• Van asks Clark for his “unbeatable” all-college-era team (’90s-present):

  • Names floated: Christian Laettner, Larry Johnson (over Laitner), Ray Allen, Allen Iverson, Tim Duncan, Anthony Davis. Clark says he’ll take up the challenge of building the “ultimate seven-man rotation” for next time.

• Notable moment: Clark participates in the tradition of "raise the roof" as the interview concludes (70:58).

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5. College Football Headlines Roundup

• Timestamps: 72:05 — 107:40

Lane Kiffin’s $40 Million Roster at LSU

• The team reacts to ever-escalating roster budgets:

  "There's just no way, when that gets out, to tamp down expectations...no way for Lane Kiffin to underachieve next year." — Joel (74:29-75:03)

• Van and Joel spar over the relationship between resources, expectations, fan base patience, and the likelihood of coaches being fired even when these budgets produce only modest returns.

Fan Expectations & Coaching Job Security

• Sharp, ongoing debate: Is it fair to expect 10-2 playoff seasons in Year 1 at a blue blood, or is the culture of immediate results fueling dysfunction?
• “If you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen!” — Van (80:48)
• Joel takes a more nuanced view, suggesting most jobs are “bound to end badly” and that the pressure can be counterproductive.

Transfer Portal Crackdowns & New NCAA Rules

• New rule: Coaches whose programs circumvent the portal window face 6-game suspensions (102:19).
• Joel and Van are skeptical that punishments will be enforced equally, especially for Black head coaches.
  “If they enforce that rule, it is going to be you and you’re going to be the one to take the punishment for that.” — Joel (102:31)

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6. Rapid-Fire Segments & Episode Wind-Down

• Timestamps: 94:19 — End

Most Watched College Football Games

• Fun stat break: Alabama led with 13 top-100 watched games; TCU had two, North Carolina one (TCU vs. UNC, #50 overall).

2026 North Carolina Football Preview

• Tate predicts a 3-win season (“East Tennessee State, TCU, maybe Syracuse”), with a bleak outlook for UNC’s coach.

Colorado/Deion Watch

• The show notes waning attention to the Buffaloes and muses about the “state of Colorado football.”

Bowling vs. Topgolf & Random Hobbies

• In signature style, the episode closes with tangents on bowling as a family hobby, Topgolf parties, and Tiger Woods nostalgia (Tiger’s impact and cultural resonance, plus brief mention of his infamous "Cablinasian" Oprah appearance).

Closing Shout-Outs & Pop Culture Tribute

• Extended mutual appreciation for Clark Kellogg, producer Allison, and brief tributes to figures like Marcus Lattimore, Wright Thompson, Jason Weaver, Maya, Mase, and others.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

(All timestamps in MM:SS format):

• On pressure at LSU (74:29):
  “There’s just no way, when that gets out, to tamp down expectations...no way for Lane Kiffin to underachieve next year.” — Joel

• On Jay Z’s music (20:40):
  “You want to hear Jay Z talk about it?” — Van

• On coaching in high-pressure jobs (80:48):
  “If you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen!” — Van

• Clark on college hoops culture (55:04):
  “The game between the lines… is as good as it’s ever been...and the tournament has shown that.”

• Clark on player movement (56:34):
  “If you leave education off the table, then I think you do yourself a disservice.”

• On physicality in locker rooms (64:21):
  “It’s a little more commonplace than you would think.” — Clark

• Legendary 'Raise the roof' moment (70:58):
  [Clark and crew raise the roof on air]

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Summary Table of Key Segments

| Segment | Topic | Key Guest/Topics | Timestamp | |-----------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------|---------------| | Opening Banter | Raise the Roof, internet beefs, “tussle” culture | Crew | 00:58–08:00 | | Jay Z Debate | Hip-hop discourse, 9th Wonder mention | Crew | 10:00–24:50 | | Tussle Stories | Campus wrestling, team bonding, locker room fights | Crew | 15:34–18:29 | | Clark Kellogg | Final Four, coaching carousel, Michigan-Arizona, Hurley, NIL/transfer | Clark Kellogg, Crew | 40:07–71:17 | | Final Four Preview | Team matchups, all-time college team, locker room culture | Clark, Crew | 44:25+ | | CFB Headlines | Lane Kiffin/LSU, fan expectations, NCAA crackdown, TV viewership | Crew | 72:05–107:40 | | Odd Hobbies | Bowling, Topgolf, Tiger Woods, celebrity well-being | Crew | 109:10+ |

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If You Missed the Episode, Know This:

• The Final Four is stacked, stories abound; the Michigan–Arizona clash is the “real title game,” but all four programs have legit claims.
• Transfer/NIL chaos off the court equals higher quality and more parity on the court—yet concerns linger about educational impact.
• In the coaching carousel, expectations and spend have reached unsustainable heights—get ready for more turnover unless athletic departments get real about history vs. hope.
• Culture, camaraderie (and "tussling") are alive and well in college sports—on and off the court.

To close:
If you want a show that’s as much about the in-between as the on-field, and where the guests not only break down X’s and O’s but join in on an impromptu “raise the roof,” this is it. Clark Kellogg summed up the mood:

"It’s just a matter of what flavor do you like—but [the tournament] gives everybody something to enjoy.” (40:21)

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Next week:
The team teases possible guests like Bill Bellamy, more CFB chaos, and continued Final Four fallout—plus inevitable banter about TCU and LSU’s next existential crisis.

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Transcript

[Clark Kellogg]

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[Tate Frazier]

Welcome back to Rigor Tailgate, the Wednesday edition of the show. I'm your host, Tate Frazier, and today we're talking a little Final Four. We got a special guest, Clark Kellogg. The legend is going to join us and talk about what's happening in college basketball and beyond. Maybe get into a little tussle talk as well. We'll get Clark's thoughts, get some wisdom from Clark Kellogg. But first and foremost, let's say what's up to our guys. Van Lathan in studio. What's up, Van?

[Van Lathan]

You know how we do it, guys. Rolling on up. Joel's invention is back in the forefront right now. We raise the roof to start every show.

[Joel Anderson]

That's right.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, that's right. The Houston Comments, that was. They are back and they are trying to reclaim their title as the originators of raising the roof. But we both know who it is that did that. It was the great Joel Anderson. Joel, what's up, man?

[Joel Anderson]

Hey, man. It was so dope to see Cynthia Cooper, Cheryl Swoops and Tina Thompson. They were back at the arena the other night to bring those girls. But I was like, man, that's just, you know, when people. I mean, they won the first four championships of the wnba, dog. I feel like nobody talks. Well, maybe because they don't exist anymore and the WNBA until hasn't had a resurgence.

[Tate Frazier]

Why did they leave? Can you explain that to people?

[Joel Anderson]

They got broke. I. I think. Okay, the original ownership group sold to another guy who thought he could do more with it than he could at the time. And so basically, he lost the team and they moved it. I want to say. Is that the team that ended up in Connecticut? I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure that franchise just moved someplace else, right?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, The Connecticut Sun. Right, The Connecticut Sun. Yeah.

[Billy Gill]

The sun used to be the Orlando Miracle before they were the Connecticut Sun.

[Joel Anderson]

Ah.

[Van Lathan]

So the. The Houston Comments didn't move anywhere. They just went defunct.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah, I also. Joel, I don't know if you saw this, and I don't. I don't know if this is, like, an ongoing, like, budding rivalry or. I don't even know. Sense of tension between shows here at the Ringer, but I saw that the fantasy show was laughing at the idea that you invented Raise the.

[Tate Frazier]

Cackling, cracking up.

[Billy Gill]

Discovered it this past week, and they were laughing at the idea that you thought that you invented Raise the roof.

[Joel Anderson]

No, no, no, no, no. I saw the whole clip. You can't take it out of context on me. And so, yeah, so they. They ended the clip saying, I think Joel invented raise the roof. So, I mean, it ended on that note.

[Van Lathan]

Joel, again, it is dope. You cucking out of Joel. You, like,

[Joel Anderson]

together a couple weeks.

[Van Lathan]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You cucking out. Because if this was anybody else, if this was a random commenter who was probably a bot, if it was Reddit,

[Tate Frazier]

if this was CFB Reddit, it would be on site.

[Joel Anderson]

It could be true, but I know so much smoke. Danny and Jack asked, and I was like, yeah, sure, whatever, man.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, my God, bro, look, they dis you.

[Joel Anderson]

That's not a dis you.

[Van Lathan]

You're ruining.

[Joel Anderson]

They had to ask me for permission. I'm just gonna cut all this out so that y' all are not gonna

[Billy Gill]

be able to n. This is not.

[Tate Frazier]

This is a clip. This is a response.

[Van Lathan]

This a response clip.

[Joel Anderson]

What I meant. I cut it out and that.

[Van Lathan]

You're letting the people down, Joel. You're letting the people down.

[Joel Anderson]

No, no.

[Van Lathan]

Respond the way Joel responds.

[Billy Gill]

You don't think you tussle the dannies or Craig.

[Tate Frazier]

You can tussle.

[Clark Kellogg]

I was generous.

[Joel Anderson]

Please go ahead and run the clip. And. And now we're gonna go in a couple weeks, me and Danny. So don't have to be like that.

[Van Lathan]

Shout out to hyphens. Shout out to the people. Joel, you scared of them?

[Joel Anderson]

No, not at all.

[Van Lathan]

It seemed like you. Bro, you scared of hyphens.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm not. Again, I'll just tell you what I think. We talked about doing it during a work day because it's like, yo, because we are co workers, we gonna be meeting up with each other. I've never played golf before. You know, I'm saying I'm never gonna ask you. I've never even.

[Van Lathan]

I'm gonna play golf with hyphens now.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Everything is a lie. So Joel threatened. Called Red CFB a hoe. Threaten Lane Kiffin, he did some whole.

[Joel Anderson]

I said that if Lane Griffin had a problem with me saying he did hostage, he could meet me somewhere to talk about it.

[Billy Gill]

Yes, they directed laughed in your face on the Internet.

[Van Lathan]

In your face at your legacy. That's your legacy.

[Joel Anderson]

It's one of those things that, like, if you say it to somebody, it is funny. I understand the comedy and thinking that you work with somebody, then a minute raise the roof or that somebody claims credit for razor roof, but I am that person. And so, of course, it's sort of hilarious for them to discuss it and think about it in that way. And then after they did it and they said, oh, yeah, shit. The facts may lean towards the fact that Joel did do it, so we had to take it seriously. I ain't got no problem with him, dog. You can't do that to me.

[Billy Gill]

It seems like there's a thin line between hilarious and Hoesh it for you and is an invitation to golf.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, you know what it is?

[Joel Anderson]

Danny and I had established a relationship. We had a. We had a rapport and talked before each other in respect and friendship. I didn't know Reddit, CFB crazy. And they still don't know them. When they threw my. When they just wound up my tweet. So I didn't have. I didn't. So of course, I'm just like, who are you to. Even if you go back to that clip, you will see that. I was like, I don't even know you, bro. We don't even. You don't even follow me. Like, what do you. Why are you. How do you have.

[Van Lathan]

How many times have you been hyphens before you and hyphas had a good

[Joel Anderson]

relationship before the core week.

[Van Lathan]

By the way, I just let you know, I love hyphens. That's my guy. Those are my dudes.

[Tate Frazier]

See?

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, Billy. Well, Billy, why don't you go fight him? You know what I'm saying? Since you so amped. He didn't dis Billy and fight him.

[Van Lathan]

He dis you. He did.

[Joel Anderson]

I know. I know what. I'm being dissed.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, by the way, look, wondering everybody

[Joel Anderson]

else in my mentions dissing me. I know what a dis is.

[Van Lathan]

I've been dis you. That's my man. That's my man.

[Joel Anderson]

All of y'.

[Clark Kellogg]

All.

[Joel Anderson]

Should we get.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I'll call 9th right now.

[Joel Anderson]

I'll call him.

[Van Lathan]

That's one of my.

[Joel Anderson]

I did not call him a ho. I said. I think just called Knight wonder some whole. I said what he Said to me.

[Van Lathan]

What did he say, Joe? What did Knife want to say?

[Tate Frazier]

Don't you dare.

[Joel Anderson]

Do you really. Do you really.

[Van Lathan]

Don't you dare. Can I say this real quick?

[Joel Anderson]

Do you really want a level of

[Van Lathan]

respect when it comes to ninth Wonder and hip hop and, you know, we rolling it up.

[Joel Anderson]

That's fine.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. We just, you know, as brother.

[Tate Frazier]

The little brother. Yep.

[Van Lathan]

But then at the same time, if you don't want to have respect, then you know, it is that. That, that too. But what happened with you and 9th wonder, though?

[Joel Anderson]

No, it's always. I mean, 9th wonder is one of dozens of people who have called me dweeb. This old. Don't know what he talking about. Do you really want me to recount this whole thing? What is this? People are still talking about the Jay Z GQ interview. Okay, okay, okay. Press Box ran a clip of me talking about it, and all of a sudden all these. From nowhere. No. People who have never. Who did just learn. Press Box was a thing showed up in the comments to be insulting to me and say that I don't know rap. The Jay Z has. The Jay Z has always said what? You know, with his opinions about the world. Because if you listen to his music, it's right in there. You know, all that. I'm corny. All this other. You know what I'm saying? Some dudes say, I can tell by your voice that you haven't lived a lifestyle or something like that. I'm like, what are you talking about? But anyway, it's just like that and nice. Wonder was among those people that was going at me in the comments, and I feel like, what did he say? Do you want me to look it up?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah, look it up. What it was. Because I want. I want the same grace extending to ninth that you gave.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. Should he invite you to play golf is the question.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, I would love to play golf with 9th wonder.

[Billy Gill]

There's the line.

[Tate Frazier]

Yep, there it is right there.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, I don't give a. About golf.

[Tate Frazier]

So you did a video response to the haters as well, which I think was a different level that we've ever seen from Joel. Like, usually you just respond to the haters, like with your words in the comments, but you did your own video on your story.

[Joel Anderson]

I did attack that. I did. I had. It was time. It was time for me to speak up for myself, man. Because people were going. People were going after me. Oh, here it is. Here's 9th wonder's comment. It's right at the top. Because I guess he's the most famous person to respond. Wait, man, wait, wait, wait. I love, love, love Mob Deep. Please tell me the critique of the world record on the infamous. On hell on earth, dot dot dot. On murder music? And here's where I will intervene to say if you.

[Tate Frazier]

I think you just asking a question. Don't force so good. No, no, no, no.

[Joel Anderson]

Listen, listen. So. And if he had watched the other follow up video. What I said is that, look, I made a mistake. My brain got stuck. I meant to say Public Enemy.

[Van Lathan]

So you got Ice Cube, X Clan. Whatever.

[Joel Anderson]

I did in the video, I addressed that. And you did.

[Van Lathan]

You did say that. You did say that.

[Joel Anderson]

I said at the top, before we get anything else, I was like, if you want to dismiss me for. Because that clip is all, you know of my opinion on rap, totally get it.

[Billy Gill]

You.

[Joel Anderson]

But I totally get it. All right. But anyway, so I'm going to follow up here. Here's what he says. People have the choice to see the world how they see it. And to say, Jay doesn't have any records that has critique on the world. Dot, dot, dot. Tells me, folks just don't listen. Okay. That's what he said.

[Van Lathan]

That's okay.

[Tate Frazier]

And I don't think that was, like, anything personal towards you, Joel.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, I'm kind of looking at. Hold on. Let's see.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, Jesus Christ. Okay, well, here's.

[Joel Anderson]

Here's what I'll say. Here's what I say. He wasn't disrespectful like the vast majority of the.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, he wasn't at all.

[Joel Anderson]

You just

[Billy Gill]

was more disrespectful.

[Joel Anderson]

They was way more disrespectful. Respect.

[Van Lathan]

They were laughing in your face.

[Joel Anderson]

Not. Not in that. Y. Y' all would like it to be that way. But for some reason, since we're supposed to be building a team, a team here, for some reason, you all would like to see me humiliated or become a cuck, but it's not gonna happen, dog. Yeah, we're just trying to make sure

[Tate Frazier]

you're fighting the right battles. I think that's the.

[Joel Anderson]

That's battles.

[Van Lathan]

So what we need to do is this. I will invite Knife Wonder onto the show. Tate knows him too. Yeah, invite Knife to the show.

[Joel Anderson]

You were talking to 9th wonder the other day.

[Tate Frazier]

He called me. So Jay Williams said the thing about Duke and Carolina and saying Carolina wasn't a blue blood, Right? And then I, like, quote, tweeted it, and I was like, you know, here's all the facts as to why that's insane. And then 9th wonder was like, we got to talk about this. You know, and then we had a nice conversation. You know, broke bread.

[Van Lathan]

Wow.

[Joel Anderson]

Guy, that's a very. What the fuck? Seriously. So, so, wow.

[Van Lathan]

We will have ninth on and you and ninth.

[Joel Anderson]

Well, he.

[Van Lathan]

The Jay Z debate. You and ninth can have the Jay Z debate face to face on here.

[Joel Anderson]

I would love to do that.

[Van Lathan]

He's a music savant. He is a hip hop savant. It's like. So we're not having basketball savant too.

[Tate Frazier]

Loves college basketball.

[Joel Anderson]

Thing to note here is that this is not an argument.

[Van Lathan]

That's why I met him. I met him at the Nike leadership situation.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, he is. He's all over the grass.

[Joel Anderson]

Y' all got an IV together, Probably. All right. Get a high feed. That's right. People are suffering. People like, people like black women just got laid off. Say, you out here, you out here getting an iv. You know what I'm saying?

[Van Lathan]

If they need an iv, they can hit me up. You know what I'm saying? You know What I'm saying?

[Tate Frazier]

IVs are everywhere.

[Joel Anderson]

No, they're not.

[Van Lathan]

Everybody gets a.

[Joel Anderson]

No, they're not. Some neighborhoods don't even have fresh fruit. You think every neighborhood got an Ivy, Joe?

[Van Lathan]

That means I'm not supposed to get the iv. You wearing clothes. You got an iPhone. You know how many people can't afford that? Look at your chain.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay, so look, I wasn't judging you for going, but what I was saying is that it is, it is an odd thing to do. I don't think I've, I am, I am adamant about this point right here. There is nothing normal about getting sick and thinking that you need to get an iv.

[Van Lathan]

I promise, it is not normal and be on television. I needed to get, like, nutrients and shit.

[Tate Frazier]

And you need to get back to life.

[Van Lathan]

The pain you can do. I had to be on tv. So will you submit agree to debate on tailgate with 9th wonder over the lyrical content of Jay Z's music, which you say is barren of any social content that wasn't.

[Joel Anderson]

And that. Okay, again, that's not even the substance of the argument. The argument is that, again, I know that Jay Z does have some sort of critique of the world through his music. Like, I've listened to his music long enough. I'm not a fool. I didn't just skim through it. You know what I'm saying? Like, for all the people that threw that verse at me, that lied to me the other. All week, I, I, I've heard Renegades. I'm sorry. Yeah, I've heard that. Please don't put that in my comments anymore. It's just so stupid. Anyway, so.

[Tate Frazier]

But 9th wonder, by all accounts, was pretty nice in the comments. He just had a question.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm. And I'm staying here. I. For. I. I apologize.

[Tate Frazier]

Fantasy guys not as nice. They were laughing in your face.

[Joel Anderson]

No, that's what fantasy is.

[Billy Gill]

Letting it roll right off his back. If you have to tussle one of the fantasy guys.

[Joel Anderson]

No, I'm not testing nobody. I'm not. I'm not tussling no more. I told you, I retired. Although I did get the end of my tussling career. Incorrect. I figured out after this last show it wasn't fat.

[Van Lathan]

It wasn't fat count.

[Joel Anderson]

No, bro, really.

[Billy Gill]

Actually, was it.

[Joel Anderson]

It was civilians, so it's funny, I feel like I felt like I was really feeling myself. Like, I must have been like 19 years old. I was like 214.

[Billy Gill]

Platt.

[Joel Anderson]

You know what I'm saying? Platt. I was rocking.

[Tate Frazier]

They're saying your nickname is Joel Platt, by the way. Like, when you college football, we're gonna call you.

[Joel Anderson]

I like that. Actually, I can laugh at myself. That's what I'm saying. So even if heifers and them were laughing, I can laugh at myself. Not a big deal.

[Tate Frazier]

I like Joel Platt as a nickname, though. Like, when you get in college football mode, we're like, here's Bill.

[Joel Anderson]

That's what's up. I do that. Continue. Sorry, what are we talking about the

[Billy Gill]

civilians that ended your tussling career?

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Why you stopped tussling?

[Joel Anderson]

For some reason. I was in Austin for a weekend, so it was me and my dog. And then it's funny, my homeboy from high school. And we always just said, man, we're gonna go hang out with the white boys. Because that's just something we didn't do, you know what I'm saying? Normally, we out on our side of town doing our thing.

[Tate Frazier]

We were gonna be Dan.

[Van Lathan]

Dave.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, right. No, actually, so this is. I'm gonna say y' all name, Andy, Chris and Muppet. You know what I'm saying?

[Tate Frazier]

Muppet.

[Joel Anderson]

The Muppet was there. Yeah. So anyway, and so we just said, we're gonna. We go, we're gonna hang out with the white boys. You know what I'm saying? So I remember. Oh, this is why. Oh, we went to a football game at the University of Texas. So anyway, we're getting amped up. You know what I'm saying, getting. We hanging out in, in a dorm room and the white boys step out. You know what I'm saying? They talking. You know what I'm saying? I was like, man, y' all can't, y' all can't with me, dog. I don't know what's, you know what y' all think is going on. We just talking because that's just how we talk to each other. You know what I'm saying? When you got a lot of testosterone, Clark Kellogg is going to mention later in the show, you like testosterone or dispute?

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, yeah,

[Van Lathan]

yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

Anyway, and so they would talk, you know, we're just goofing around, bro. And I, I'll never forget. Somehow I grabbed all three of the. And dropped them on the couch at the same time. And I was like, I was like, man, I was like, I hurt somebody, bro. I was like, I can't, I can't, I can't actually wrestle with civilians either. I want, I wasn't gonna wrestle football players no more because I was done with that. I mean, just, you know, after a while, there's no need in wrestling everybody. You know what I'm saying? You wrestle enough people and I, I assume the freshman probably started doing that anyway. The point is, is that.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah, what was the point.

[Van Lathan]

What the just happened, Brock Joe.

[Tate Frazier]

So that was your last.

[Van Lathan]

This never happens to you, bro. You always get you, you tell these stories so well, and they always come to an interesting, slightly odd point. And this one you just tapped out on. What the happened, bro?

[Joel Anderson]

No, I mean, I think I got, I, I, I somehow had grabbed all those up, dumped them on the couch, and I was like, damn, bro.

[Van Lathan]

Hold on,

[Joel Anderson]

guys.

[Van Lathan]

Three.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Wait a second, wait a second, wait a second. So the last tussling was essentially an episode of Blacked.

[Joel Anderson]

Shut up. Okay? I mean, again, Jaden, Ivy, calm down.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, okay. You know what? I'm just saying. So it was so it was a.

[Tate Frazier]

Just like, you could do this to the fantasy guys. You could dig all three.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, it was okay. It was funny because I was like, I don't, I didn't remember the timeline of events of tussles in my life. And I don't remember all of them, but I remember most of them because it did not happen.

[Van Lathan]

How many tussles? How many tussles did you say you've

[Joel Anderson]

had in my whole life?

[Van Lathan]

How many tussles? Yes. No, just how many tussles you.

[Joel Anderson]

Did you wrestle? You wrestle me eight years old? You wrestled your friends or whatever? Does that Count.

[Van Lathan]

Forget about that. All the modern tussles. Tussles in the modern era. Let's see. Let's see. Post. Post 16 tussles. Post brandy. Oh, tussles.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Think about how many tussles.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah, P.B.

[Joel Anderson]

i mean, I mean. I mean, I'm. I. I want to be. Oh, man. At least 30. I mean, I guess, you know, you wrestle. You do, you know, I mean, you wrestle somebody in high school, you wrestling, but you're 30, 50. I don't know. It wasn't that many.

[Tate Frazier]

Oh, 30, 50 is a big difference.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, because, I mean, after some. Doesn't. Doesn't count, you know, so it's like, you know, you just grab a. Like, push them up against the locker. Hey, man, I told you, stop. Doug. You know what I'm saying? You're a bully. I mean, sometimes.

[Clark Kellogg]

Yeah,

[Joel Anderson]

yeah.

[Van Lathan]

We started the show. Like, what's like.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yeah, this is.

[Tate Frazier]

This is our lead into Clark Kellogg. We just need a little tussle talk to get people, you know, set up.

[Van Lathan]

We got Clark coming up. Look, I will say this, though. The Knife Wonder thing is serious. I want, I want, I want.

[Tate Frazier]

We need him.

[Van Lathan]

Brothers to be on the same page, man.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

No, wait, hold on.

[Joel Anderson]

I would love to meet Knife Wonder. I'm a big fan of it. But can I just say that one thing, though? I'm not going to. Knife Wonder would kick my ass when it comes to, like, analyzing the music or whatever, so and so forth. My idea, my point is that Jay Z, that was. His music, came out a long time ago, okay? He is a mogul and a businessman. He is more than just a rapper now, okay? For better or worse. Like, he's decided to make himself that person. He wants to take credit for helping to gentrify Brooklyn. He's the one that ran Roc Nation when they got hit with a class action about not. Yeah, he brought the Nets to Brooklyn, too. He. But he's the one that ran the company that FL the class action suit from their employees saying they wouldn't get paid a livable wage. He's the one that sold his stake and title. You know what I'm saying? He's the one that sat down at the dinner with Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump. I want to hear him talk about that. You know what I mean?

[Van Lathan]

You want to hear Jay Z talk about it?

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, I want to hear Jay Z.

[Van Lathan]

So you would like. Yeah, you would like to hear an interview where Jay Z addresses directly some of the criticisms about him?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, I Thought Frazier did a fine job.

[Van Lathan]

And Frazier's great.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, Frazier's great.

[Van Lathan]

Like, if you want to come tomorrow, me and Frazier are doing the thing there, Tate. And if you're feeling well, me and Frazier and Sean Dickinson, we're doing the thing tomorrow, man.

[Joel Anderson]

All right, dog. Look, y', all, man, la, y', all, this ain't gonna happen. First of all, take sick. He's not gonna go. This is gonna be.

[Tate Frazier]

I'm not even going to the Final Four. I'm so sick.

[Joel Anderson]

I, I, I'm not tape playing sick today, man. He's fighting hard.

[Tate Frazier]

Whatever it takes.

[Van Lathan]

That's what you will. That's what you would want to, to see from Jay Z. I think that's fair. Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

I don't feel like Knight's gonna defend him in that sense. He's just basically saying, look at the music. You know, he definitely had some messages.

[Joel Anderson]

I don't think it was my best clip, but I also think that, like, if people had listened to what I said after that, in which I clarified a few things and then tried to, you know, flesh out the argument longer, which is that, yeah, like, I, I'm a big Jay Z fan. I've listened to his music, I've heard some of what he thinks about the world, but a lot has happened since then.

[Tate Frazier]

And I think the best clip was you asking Brian Curtis his favorite Jay Z album. That was your favorite clip. He just, he just stand. He was just like, ah, man, too many to choose from.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, Jay Z.

[Van Lathan]

No Jay Z for Curtis, man. Bro, I expected Curtis to have, I

[Joel Anderson]

don't, I mean, do you think so? Tate, you know this better than, than Van. And I would do white, do white guys that sit around listening to Jay Z, like, at the certain age, like 22, 23 years old.

[Tate Frazier]

I don't know about now, but, like, when I was coming up, I mean, I was 10 when the black album came out, and like, that was, you know, you know, that was pretty big.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay?

[Tate Frazier]

The 4040 club, ESPN on the screen, you know, that felt like a moment for the 10 year old.

[Joel Anderson]

All right?

[Tate Frazier]

I don't know.

[Van Lathan]

Imagine Tate. Tate was like that little white dude from CB4. I see the CB4. Hey, dad, suck on this. Straight out of Low Cash. The crazy name dad Mike, that was

[Tate Frazier]

like, like, that was the first, the first album I bought, like, on my own at Walmart, was one. Welcome back, Mace. Mason's my favorite rapper, so.

[Joel Anderson]

Man is cold, man. I, I, I love Mace too, man.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, I love dip.

[Van Lathan]

By the way, if you guys haven't seen that scene and C before. That's one of the funniest.

[Joel Anderson]

I gotta look it back up. I gotta look it back up.

[Van Lathan]

That. That. So the Phil Harman. Rest in peace to Phil Hartman before

[Joel Anderson]

you get R. Yeah, he's a legend.

[Van Lathan]

He's like the governor of the state or a senator or something like that. And he's trying to get something to rile people up to support his campaign. He needs a cause, whatever. So some runs into the thing. Y' all put the clip down here if y' all wanna. His son runs into dad, come see CB4. Come see CB4. And his dad is on the phone. And then the son looks at the dad and goes, yo, dad, why you always play me like a sucker? And he grabs, and then he goes straight out of Little Cash. A crazy name. Dad. Mike. Bill Hartman's eyes get big and he's like. That's the hook. The little white kids.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

It's so funny to me every time. You've never seen that movie before, Tate.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, no, I need to watch that. I need to get on there.

[Joel Anderson]

I need to watch it again because I've only. I've only watched it once since I watched it. So that's been. That's 30, almost 35 years ago, man.

[Van Lathan]

I need to see it.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, we need to go check that out.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, Black Album was an album that I played when I was, like, a professional. That song came out. I'm older than y', all, so of

[Van Lathan]

course I was in. I was in college. I was in college when it dropped. Almost maybe out of college. Wait, actually out. That was 2004, was it not?

[Joel Anderson]

2003.

[Tate Frazier]

Three. Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

I changed clothes and all that. 2003.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Change Clothes sucks.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

But the Black Album is my favorite. Change Clothes sucks.

[Joel Anderson]

Yo. Change Clothes felt nice at the time, though.

[Van Lathan]

It felt nice at the time.

[Tate Frazier]

It was a commercial song.

[Van Lathan]

They were so, like, the rock and everything that they were doing over there. It was so fly and cosmopolitan and all of that. And they had the models in the video. Damon Jay had the street stuff, but there was also this elegance to their ministry and method and the whole deal.

[Tate Frazier]

It was bringing the fashion into it, too.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

It was like. It was fine dining, hip hop almost, particularly at that point, because JJ was such a. Jay was such a big deal. So Change Clothes was that. But, like, everything after that, like Lucifer.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, oh, oh. Allure. Allure is my favorite joint.

[Tate Frazier]

Lucifer is when I started learning about, like, Secret.

[Joel Anderson]

Allure is my one and Lucifer is my Two. Strangely enough, like, those are my favorite songs. Pimp.

[Van Lathan]

This is threats.

[Clark Kellogg]

Pimp.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

This is threats. Pimp. Yeah. Justify my.

[Tate Frazier]

You like?

[Van Lathan]

You like Jay? Justify my Thug sucks. You like?

[Joel Anderson]

Go ahead.

[Van Lathan]

You like you. You like? You like. You like Jay Z?

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, I'm a huge Jay Z. I'm a huge fan of Jay Z's music. Yeah, I mean, I've. I mean, dog, I would. When I was coming up where I'm from, I would throw in cover up along. Where I'm from. Marcy son. I'd say I cover up along where I'm from. Most city, son. Like, that's how I mean, I just. You. I like east coast rap in the south. When it was corny to, like, east coast rap. Like, if you kind of like that, like Wu Tang, people thought you were kind of weird, you know what I'm saying? Because, you know, Texas was just. Just. Just a different vibe. That's when the screw music was out, you know what I'm saying? And we were more like New Orleans bounce, whatever, at that time or, you know, even some of the Memphis sounds. So, yeah, so I like Jay Z. When were like, man, don't play that wax in our car, dog. On East Coast. No, people didn't want to hear that. In 96, 97. In Texas. Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

North Carolina, like, everybody like New York rap. I like, feel. Felt like that was a big thing. So, yeah, it just translated down, you

[Joel Anderson]

know what Texas is. Because. Because Texas doesn't want to be like, DJ Screw.

[Tate Frazier]

Like.

[Joel Anderson]

But no, Texas doesn't want to be like New York, you know what I'm saying? Like, we're one of the states that's like, man, y' all New York, we Texas, you know, I don't think North Carolina has that kind of approach to the world.

[Tate Frazier]

I think they're connected, you know, Like, Michael Jordan was born in Brooklyn, you know, so connected.

[Joel Anderson]

Y' all can share him. And it feel. It feels like, you know, pleasant. But, like, if he was. If he moved to Texas, Texas would be.

[Tate Frazier]

Or he'd be Frank Lucas from North Carolina, goes up to New York, you know, American gangster.

[Joel Anderson]

We got some connections.

[Van Lathan]

The more Southern you get, you get down to Louisiana, you have Deep south is different.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

It's like you got your own culture, your own sound. Like the. The food is hyper unique. Everything is hyper unique. To that, to that. Not saying that that doesn't exist, but, like, where we're from, we. We listen to everything on the East Coast. We listen to everything on the west coast. But we wasn't dressing like nobody. We weren't rapping like nobody. We had the way that we wrapped, the way that we sounded, and it was fine. And it was. And it. People loved it. So like you. Nobody was trying to rap like they was in the Wu Tang Clan or anything like that. We love.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Like, people be laughing at you on the food stick and they do now, too. And I love food Snickers. But down in the south, it was like, man, with that fast rapping, you know what I'm saying? Like, they thought it was corny, for lack of a better term. Not everybody. I don't want to, you know, say everybody felt that way, but that was the general.

[Van Lathan]

My dad came to me one time, was like, shaq rapping. I was like, what, you ain't heard this? It was like, Shaq. Shaq did a song with the Fu Snicket. I was like, what? He's like, he did a song with the Fu Snickers. He got a rap. Rap rapper. He rapping. I want to hear what he's talking about.

[Tate Frazier]

See, I love Shaq and Kazam. You know, like, that was like.

[Joel Anderson]

I was a huge Shaq fan too, as a kid, man, when he was a blue chips, I was just like, yeah, blue chips. Know what I'm saying?

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Sha the Man. Sha the man. All right, this was fun. So we. We, we. The olive branch between you and 9th wonder is happening. You gotta get that.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Get ready for the final four, Clark Kellogg is coming on.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Is there anything else that you want that you back. You completely back down from the fantasy football guys?

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, no.

[Tate Frazier]

Billy's upset about that.

[Joel Anderson]

Billy, I'm feel. Not a problem. Not a problem having relationship.

[Van Lathan]

The fact that you treated.

[Joel Anderson]

You.

[Van Lathan]

You treated them significantly worse than you've treated Billy over the course of this.

[Tate Frazier]

That is true. And Billy's own.

[Van Lathan]

Anything that Billy says, what, like you kind of hone in on it and try to make a deal out of it. Meanwhile, they completely dissed you and then put it out in the clip.

[Joel Anderson]

Have you been watching a lot of specials or something? You're very. You're very messy today.

[Van Lathan]

You're being very messy.

[Joel Anderson]

No, you're being very messy.

[Tate Frazier]

He's turned into Vandy Cohen.

[Billy Gill]

He's also.

[Joel Anderson]

I like that you're being messy today, Van. No, try to touch it.

[Billy Gill]

Joel's also worse on the text, honestly, than he is on the show. Like the stuff that he stirs on the text where he just calls me flat out liars and starts making stuff. Upers is like wild Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Tate Frazier]

Joe and Allison were teaming up on Billy? That wasn't.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, yeah, the text bros were.

[Tate Frazier]

We were talking about that.

[Joel Anderson]

Allison knows the truth. Allison knows the truth, man. She's. She knows you, dog. From your old shop. So everybody's in love with Billy now. And also, I get it. It's more fun to align against me. I understand. No, I understand you were aligning against Billy.

[Clark Kellogg]

We're a team here.

[Billy Gill]

I. I thought that we were.

[Tate Frazier]

I thought we were fantastic.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah, exactly. Right.

[Joel Anderson]

Well, I'm telling you. I'm giving you information on where my alliances are. I'm telling you. Hey, look, I know fantasy football.

[Van Lathan]

We good.

[Joel Anderson]

That's good. They shared me to their audience with

[Tate Frazier]

the Fantasy Four instead of the Fantastic Four.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. People, people. Very complimentary. I have a good relationship with them.

[Van Lathan]

Now.

[Joel Anderson]

Who are the other people that I'm supposed to be having beef with?

[Billy Gill]

Nah, nobody. You're trying to come to have your back with this whole family.

[Joel Anderson]

We're gonna fight og. No.

[Billy Gill]

And then you're good just going to that side. So it seems like it's the four of you against the.

[Tate Frazier]

Then you start to try to fight one of our show.

[Van Lathan]

It actually feels like for some reason, you clicked up. You clicked up with them, and I'm trying to figure out why, when it was a clear diss.

[Joel Anderson]

No, it wasn't. It wasn't a clear diss at all. It was. It was fine. They showed me respect. Watch the clip. Watch the whole clip.

[Tate Frazier]

Taking that as having.

[Joel Anderson]

And having the. Having the perspective of knowing that I gave them permission to run that clip also would just. It would seemingly diffuse all of this.

[Billy Gill]

It feels like a shame kink, you know?

[Van Lathan]

No, it does. It feels like. So I want to know from the audience, because maybe I'm wrong.

[Joel Anderson]

You're wrong with the way.

[Van Lathan]

I can help you with the way. With the way that Joel has responded to any minuscule, microscopic perceived slight over the run of this particular pod. Right.

[Joel Anderson]

All right. You're inflating that. That's fine.

[Van Lathan]

Reddit, cfb.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Whoever's on. Like, Joe puts a clip out, people talk about it. Joe makes a video addressing commenters and people talking about the fact. Just come back on the next pod. Come back on the next pod and be like, yo, we never say LL Cool J.

[Joel Anderson]

We're not gonna be able to talk about that on press box again. That's not. That's. You think we just told you that Brian didn't even have a favorite Jay Z song. You think we'. We gonna Circle back and talk about Jay Z on our show again.

[Tate Frazier]

I hope so.

[Van Lathan]

But yet in this situation, it seemed like you didn't. Maybe I'm wrong. It seemed like the energy wasn't kept. But I would like to have the fantasy guys on the podcast as well. Let's bring them on.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Let's bring the fantasy guys on there and talk about this and talk about how, you know, they could diss you and get away with it.

[Joel Anderson]

Nah, they all the people in our.

[Billy Gill]

But they didn't diss Daddy High Fitz and Daddy Kelly.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, that's. If that's what y' all want to call them. If that's what y' all want y' all situation to be.

[Tate Frazier]

You were calling a big daddy.

[Van Lathan]

You can't do that. No, man, you call him Big Daddy. Big Daddy Hyphens.

[Joel Anderson]

No, it don't.

[Van Lathan]

Big Daddy Hyphens, bro.

[Joel Anderson]

It don't work on me, dog. That don't work. Big Daddy Hyphens. It don't matter if it works. I have a strong constitution.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, you know what? Calling Jay Z a capitalist don't work on him don't mean it's not true. And it's the same thing with you. Like, you Big Daddy Hyphens. Big like. That's. That's the deal. It's fine.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, if that's what y' all want to call him, man, if that's. It sounds like y' all want to click up with them. It sounds like y' all like how

[Van Lathan]

they thought it was up.

[Joel Anderson]

You thought. You thought y'. All.

[Tate Frazier]

We were trying to clip up. We were trying to take you back.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, right.

[Van Lathan]

I thought it was.

[Joel Anderson]

You guys were titillated by the idea that I was being insulted. You couldn't wait to tell me.

[Tate Frazier]

I think you were titillated that they let you decide what clip goes.

[Joel Anderson]

You guys, you ready to laugh at me? And then when I said, nah, let me give you the context, then y' all are like, oh, you being a bitch about it. But. No, but I have it right here.

[Van Lathan]

Yo, I go to Gaslight, yo. Can I tell. Can I tell a quick story before we go? This is the quick story. So my homeboy Ryan, okay, he is just uncommonly good at sports video games. I don't know why we're all good, but Ryan, he's just unbeatable at the sports video game, right? So one time, we're all playing NBA 2K. And this is on the Dreamcast. This is the first shout out to Sega.

[Joel Anderson]

This is all the Dreamcast

[Van Lathan]

Raise the roof. Yeah, this is on the drink, bro. We had the Dreamcast. We had all kinds. See, y' all tussled. We played video games. We did video games, too.

[Joel Anderson]

I played video games all the time, too. We had.

[Tate Frazier]

That was. That was tussle time.

[Van Lathan]

We play people after tussle. Y' all smoke a cigarette, plays a star Fox or something like that. But, like. But

[Joel Anderson]

y' all don't notice at this point. Jaden Ivy up here.

[Van Lathan]

So we're. We're playing. So Ryan. Ryan and my man Justin are playing. They're playing Dreamcast. And it's the. It's the. The Portland Trailblazers. Justin has against Ryan has the Spurs. So this is the Portland team with Scotty and Arvidus Sabonis. And you know all of those guys, like, really good Portland team against Tim Duncan and them. Ryan's probably gonna win. He got the Spurs. First quarter of the game, Tim Duncan gets hurt. Okay, he's out. Tim Duncan gets hurt. And we all laugh. That's funny. Tim Duncan is outfit. Then we look at the status, and it says, duncan out for the game. Right? Out for the game. And we know that there's an opportunity for Justin here because of Ryan's reputation of being the best player. What happens in this game is Arvidus Sabonis ends up scoring 50 points and has 17 rebounds, and the Blazers win. All right, Just beast. Because there's no dunking. There's nothing you could do. There's no fucking Duncan. He goes crazy. He just. We continue to come back to this because Ryan had the reputation of being the best player. And so because he had the reputation of being the best player, anything that befell him was hysterical. You have the reputation of being somebody who don't take no shit. I'm talking about. You get mad. You screamed at us over Reddit cfp. You basically called us hoes.

[Tate Frazier]

You got MJ mentality.

[Joel Anderson]

I thought that was right. Y' all thought it was hilarious.

[Van Lathan]

Except for some reason in this situation with hyphens, you chosen the road less traveled, and we're not letting you live that down. Just like if me, Ryan and Justin are on the phone right now, right? I' ma put pictures of our Vita Sabonis in the chat, and it's gonna get to Ryan years and years ago. I'm saying it's the same thing. You have set your reputation as the draconian slight, and for some reason, Heifetz made you back off of that. We can't explain why we need a gif.

[Tate Frazier]

Of Heifetz laughing.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

The problem is that you guys have me all wrong. That's. That's the problem. I'm a very. I'm a very easy to get along with person. I don't have very many beefs in the world.

[Van Lathan]

What? Yeah, I don't.

[Joel Anderson]

I really don't. I'm a very.

[Tate Frazier]

We had an episode titled the 12 Disciples.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, because again, this. It's. It's funnier to paint me in this way.

[Billy Gill]

Did you tell us you're at Wegmans two days ago? You said, come meet me here right now. I'm with my son.

[Joel Anderson]

Well, I was joking, but I was. I was there with my son. I had to take him out early to the man. It's funny. Somebody saw me and they tweeted at me on Blue Sky. They were like, yo, were you at the National Arboretum? They skated at me. Yeah, like, did they see you at the National Arboretum? And I was like, damn, that's crazy. I mean, it was nice, you know, that the person saw me also. He saw me in, like, a montage moment because I was taking my son to look at the cherry blossoms and shit. So probably. It probably looked like I was a very good dad. So I was like, well, I just kind of. How you hope somebody sees you in public. You know what I'm saying?

[Van Lathan]

Just real quick. Just real quick. Just real quick.

[Joel Anderson]

That's me, too.

[Van Lathan]

All right, seriously, move on real quick. I just really want an excuse to tell the story about. About Tim Duncan's one of the funniest moments of my life. But I just. I just legitimately went into Twitter and just typed in Joel Anderson, hoe. You call somebody a hoe on February 16th.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, that was last month.

[Van Lathan]

Your hoe on February 8th. You called somebody. You called somebody a ho on April 6th.

[Joel Anderson]

Hold on.

[Van Lathan]

You called somebody a hoe on January 19th. You're the one skipping your face and name. But I get it. You're a hoe. I hope you die slow.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay. I don't know if it's necessary to record somebody. Okay, bro, we gotta cut

[Van Lathan]

it. December 9, 2025. I will. Oh, ask quitters. This is so much fun here. You love basketball, hate black people. Why don't you stick to hockey with your whole ass?

[Joel Anderson]

What year was this?

[Billy Gill]

That's this year.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, man. I don't think I did all that, bro.

[Van Lathan]

You did, bro. I'm looking at. Bro, I'm lit. I'm looking at it right now. I'm looking at it right now. These are Ex parties.

[Joel Anderson]

You don't remember? Look at this tweet about Biscuit.

[Van Lathan]

Call the people.

[Joel Anderson]

Hey, man Jones at Van Lathan had me rolling this morning. My man by Joel Anderson. Get a bad rap, huh? People see through y', all, Doug.

[Van Lathan]

All right, who tweeted that?

[Joel Anderson]

Biscuit. Boom.

[Tate Frazier]

All right, thanks, Biscuits. He sounds like a tailgater.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that's a gator. All right, let's raise the roof before we get to.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

To Clark Kellogg. Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

That was a fun deep dive right there, Joel. You're good for that. Let's talk to a better sport now. Let's talk to Clark Kellogg about the Final Four college basketball that's coming up right after the break.

[Joel Anderson]

Pet owner Save this TikTok has free training guides and behavior tips, potty training

[Clark Kellogg]

tricks, healthy diet ideas.

[Joel Anderson]

No expensive classes needed. Just scroll and learn.

[Tate Frazier]

Download Tick Tock now. All right, as promised at the top of the show, we're talking Final Four in college basketball as a whole. And joining us now is the legend himself, Clark Kellogg. Clark, thanks so much for coming on Tailgate. And how you doing on this Final Four weekend?

[Clark Kellogg]

Oh, I'm terrific, guys. Great to be with you, Tate, Joe, Van. Good to hang out.

[Joel Anderson]

All good.

[Clark Kellogg]

The first two weeks have been terrific. This tournament never disappoints. It always delivers. It's just a matter of what flavor do you like, but it gives everybody something to enjoy. And I'm looking forward to the finale in Indianapolis. Three more games and we'll crown a worthy champion. On Monday night,

[Van Lathan]

a lot of people were looking forward to Duke being in the Final Four. Cam Boozer, how big of a disappointment is it to not have the Blue Devils in there? You know, they lost in a shocking way.

[Clark Kellogg]

Yeah, they really did. I mean, I had pushed them all the way through based on how they had played and dominated most of that game on Sunday. And then, lo and behold, they did just enough to help UConn come back. I don't want to take anything away from UConn, but you give up a 19 point lead in a game that you're handling, you got to help that team come back. And Duke, did they turn the ball over? They missed some free throws, and Braylon Mullins makes a huge shot. So it's not terribly disappointing to me because we've still got a great Final Four. I mean, it's indicative of what the tournament can be like. I mean, the line is thin. I mean, they're right there about to head to Indy, and then all of a sudden, boom, they're not. And so we've got UConn, Illinois, we've got Michigan, Arizona on the other side. So I accept whatever the tournament gives us. So I'm not deflated from the standpoint of how I feel for particularly Kaden Boozer and the team. But other than that, I accept whatever unfolds and looking forward to the really the four teams that are going to be there.

[Joel Anderson]

You know, Clark, one of our co hosts up here is a big North Carolina guy. Like, he's part of the Carolina mob, you know, and we had our family, Joel.

[Tate Frazier]

It's not a mom family.

[Joel Anderson]

It's about family.

[Clark Kellogg]

Wow.

[Joel Anderson]

UNC family. That's right. And so last week when we had this show and we were talking about possible coaches to take over for Hubie Davis, he mentioned the names Tommy Lloyd. I mean, yeah, Tommy Lloyd and Dustin May, two guys that are going to be in the Final Four this weekend. Tell me if, if you're them, is that a job that you would actually consider, considering you've already shown you can be in the Final Four where you're at?

[Clark Kellogg]

You know, Joe, both of those places are great basketball places, and I'd be hard pressed to think that North Carolina would be better than either one of those spots. But for some people, it might, depending on where you are in your career, what scratches your itch? I mean, I can't call that for other people. And I'm much a guy who would rather bloom where planet if I was in that space. So I don't see where it would be a trial. I mean, it is North Carolina, but Michigan's in a great conference. It's a great school they've got. I mean, Arizona is a terrific basketball school and an unbelievable climb. I mean, again, I just don't see if that is realistic from where I sit. But, you know, crazy things happen in the space of coaching. So we'll see where they land as far as the Tar Heels next coach. But I'd be hard pressed to see it being something that either one of those guys would. Would want to jump into.

[Tate Frazier]

It's unfortunate, Joel.

[Van Lathan]

Like. Like Tate is trying to contain his emotions.

[Tate Frazier]

I'm upset for Arizona fans that this is all the talk going into the Final Four. They get to their first final four since 2001 and now everyone's talking about if their head coach is going to be there. I think that's a little ridiculous. So, Clark, just talk about that matchup. Michigan, Arizona. Everyone's kind of done the. The classic de facto national championship game. I think that's a bridge too. Far. But as far as the matchup of these front courts, Arizona obviously has been incredible all season long. Michigan, there's really no team that can match up with those guys. Like, how, how excited are you to see this matchup? And what do you expect to see in this game?

[Clark Kellogg]

Well, clearly there's only one, there's only room for one game on the top of the marquee, and that clearly is this game. I mean, you can't deny that these have been the two most dominant teams all season long. However you want to slice results and statistics, these two teams have clearly been the most dominant teams in college basketball and they're going to play in the semifinals. We've got tremendous front courts across the board in college basketball this year. I mean, there were a ton of them out there and we've got four of them in the Final Four. I mean, Terrence Reed has been as dominant as any big guy in the country. He's got Caravan on that front line with him. But this matchup between the Wildcats and Wolverines is one that's one you salivate about on paper. I mean, both teams don't have any real weaknesses. Both teams are physically imposing. Both teams are dynamic and athletic. Both teams are very well coached. I mean, you can go right down whatever list that you want to check for in terms of a championship caliber basketball team. And both of these teams have it, have what it takes. So I just hope they play up to the level that they've shown and that they give us the kind of game that would be memorable. Whether that happens or not, we'll see. But I'm looking forward to it very much looking forward to how this is going to unfold in large measure because Charles Barkley has called this the Arizona invitation. And I would love to see him have to squirm if the Wolverines take care of business. He's a little nervous about it because he's watched Michigan play and when we're off air he's talking about, man, Clark, I tell you, those Wolverines scared me. I said, you should be scared. And I'm a Big Ten guy. You know, you guys, I went to Ohio State and I'm Buckeye through and through, but I'm also Big Ten through and through. And I wouldn't mind seeing a all Big Ten final on Monday. I'd like to see the Big Ten end its 25 year championship drought and I think they've got two teams in the, in the, in the Final Four that could very well end up being the champion on Monday night.

[Van Lathan]

You know, the other game features Illinois and UConn. And you know, UConn. We talked about the win over Duke after the winner went viral. He went viral for what looked like a headbutt to a ref. And, you know, it looked kind of gangster. Half his coat is down, he gets in the ref's face for a head. But it's been controversial, Clark. There are a lot of people that are saying, you know, there hasn't been any swift penalty against him. And how we treat officials in the sport is so heavily scrutinized. And a lot of people are saying had that been a black coach, that that image would have been a lot different in terms of the way that it was received. Do you have any thoughts on how Hurley is as a coach and that particular incident and why it's not making these gigantic waves and having all of these think pieces written about it?

[Clark Kellogg]

Yeah, a couple of things. One, I didn't actually see what transpired Sunday. Is that something that happened after the game.

[Tate Frazier]

I mean, it was a different camera angle. It wasn't during the broadcast. It was like a separate camera angle that got leaked.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah.

[Clark Kellogg]

Oh, I haven't seen that because I actually. Once we got done.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, okay.

[Clark Kellogg]

I did not see that. I've heard about it, but I haven't been on social. I've actually been kind of away from my phone in that regard, so I haven't seen it. As far as his coaching style, his style isn't for everybody, but I love Danny Hurley. I love his authenticity, his pat. I don't care for his annex all the time. I don't care for how he goes about displaying his emotions, but I love. Have great respect for what he gets out of his players, how he cares for his players. I'm not a big demonstrative guy when it comes. I think coaches should have a certain level of comportment when you're coaching, but I also understand a variety of personalities. So I'm not going to. I'm not going to disparage the fact that I don't prefer. I don't prefer his style with the coach, with the officials, but I appreciate how he coaches his program and his players. And I also enjoy his candor and how good he is with the media. He's interesting, he's entertaining, he's highly successful. He's very intense. His style can be off putting, especially as it relates to his aunt, how he. How he. How he sometimes treats the officials. I think that should be reeled in. But we all have some, you know, some flaws I. You know, to me, coaching is about leading and developing and how you do that. There are a lot of different ways to do that. Parenting is the same way. There are different ways. There should be some common ground in how you coach and parent. If you're about developing the people entrusted to your care, and as long as you're doing that, your methods, as long as they aren't abusive, I can deal with the different styles of personality and intensity and so forth. And that's where I land on Danny.

[Joel Anderson]

Well, Clark, as a former great player and also the father, I think both of your kids played D1 basketball, right? Yep.

[Clark Kellogg]

And our daughter played D1 basketball.

[Joel Anderson]

That's right. And daughter played. Yes, that's right. So the one thing I've thought about that, to follow up on that is that. Yeah, because, you know, haven't seen. And being on sidelines and coaches are losing their temper and yelling at you, doing that other stuff. I've always thought it was sort of unfair because we asked the players to be composed. The coaches asked players to be composed in moments of intensity and when games are tight and everything. Like. So did that bother you, like, even before you saw it in Hurley, like, do you remember?

[Clark Kellogg]

Oh, yeah, yeah, very much so. I mean, the example, as a leader, as an adult, I think you should always set an example. And if you're asking young people to adhere to certain standards, then you need to hold yourself to those standards as well. And your personality is your personality. But I think at some point, some. At some points you have to tamp down what's your personality for the greater good. I mean, I can't be a nut when I've got kids that are playing a sport and draw attention to myself. Even though I might be frustrated about something at some point, There's a level of self control I think all leaders should exercise. I'm not saying get Ms. Dismiss your personality. I'm saying recognize the bigger picture and have a level of perspective about the example your role requires from you as a coach, teacher, leader, parent, whatever it might be. So again, that style I'm never going to endorse losing your mind because that's how you are. I'm not going to endorse that. I understand that that is part of different personalities, but I will never endorse or advocate that because I do believe there's a level of self control that you can exercise to change that for the greater good.

[Van Lathan]

I have a question. This draft is stacked. This is a stacked draft. There are different types of players, different styles of players. No one can seem to agree, which is normally not the case in a stack draft. And who the clear number one player in the draft is to you? Clark, who is the clear number one player in the draft?

[Clark Kellogg]

I was having this conversation with Charles and Kenny and me and Charles landed on Caleb Wilson.

[Joel Anderson]

He's healthy.

[Clark Kellogg]

And Kenny landed on debons which I find to be though it would be between those two for me. Peterson is special but I always go back to something my late dad used to say fairly often good big is better than good little. If everything is equal, okay. And both Wilson and debonza are bigger than Peterson. I love the fact that you may point you made note of event it is a deep draft. A lot of teams are going to get players that can help them win for a long time. But if you're talking top pick, I'd be wrestling with DeBonsa and Caleb Wilson.

[Joel Anderson]

What do you think about Boozer as a prospect then? Because that's something we talked about last show.

[Clark Kellogg]

He doesn't have the same upside. I love him because he does everything you need a player to do to win. He's physical, he's tough, he's got good instincts, great iq. He's going to become a better shooter if he works at it and he's won everywhere he's been. But I see him as a really strong complimentary piece at the pro level, not necessarily a franchise piece. Now, I could be wrong. I mean, I didn't see Jalen Brunson doing what he's doing. I knew he'd be a good pro. There's a number of guy I didn't see Con Can Nipple doing what he's doing in Charlotte. I like, I like he. He's on he right. He's about to be ROI and I didn't see it coming. So there's a lot of, you know, there's art and science involved in drafting guys and sometimes you get surprised on the downside or upside. But I'd be wrestling between Wilson and debonza. I think if I was in somebody's war room.

[Tate Frazier]

I think that's a good point. And just looking at the final four, I mean, Keaton Wagler with Illinois, Braden Buries, Co op Yaxel, Linda Borg, Jalen Mullins, Terrace Reed. As you mentioned before, like which one of those guys are you most excited to see in that setting?

[Clark Kellogg]

All of them actually, because I haven't seen any. I did Arizona. I had one game in Arizona back in January, so I saw those guys in person, which was great. But the Other teams I've only seen by watching film. So being able to see them in person is going to be great. So I'm looking forward to all of it from that standpoint.

[Tate Frazier]

And as far as like college. Oh, yeah, go ahead.

[Van Lathan]

No, go ahead.

[Tate Frazier]

I was gonna say as far as college basketball viewership, I mean, you look at some of this, some of numbers that are coming out averaging around 10.3 million viewers, most since 1993. There was a talk that was happening for quite some time about college basketball being dead. A lot of people were tuning out, you know, transfer portals ruining the sport. I think it's better than ever right now. And it's getting more viewers in the NBA on a consistent basis at this point. So when you talk about college basketball and kind of where it sits right now, how do you feel about where the sport sort of stands and how impressed are you by, you know, 19 million people watch Braylon Mullen hit that shot. I mean, this sport continues to deliver. When you talk about ratings and everything else.

[Clark Kellogg]

No question about it, Tate. The game between the lines, between that 94 by 50 foot box is as good as it's ever been in terms of competition. Talent, nil. Certainly as chaotic and crazy as it is off the court and unsustainable, we will get it reeled in at some point, I believe. But as crazy as it is off the court, it has enhanced what's between the lines because it's allow teams to be better and older and marginal. NBA prospects have chosen to take advantage of nil money and stay in school like Yaksel and become better college players. And there are more of them and they're spread out across more teams. So I don't think anybody who's being objective would not agree with what you just said, that the game between the lines is really good. And the tournament has shown that. The regular season has shown that. And obviously the ratings are showing that as well.

[Joel Anderson]

Well, watch. You know what then? Why this is what I'm saying. What is actually wrong then? People seem to love. They're watching these games. The state of the game seems to be healthy. Like guys that would have left years before taking a chance to be in a second round pick or whatever, I say, well, I should stick around and I'll play basketball again. So I guess when people talk about old college sports is in disarray or whatever, but like what is actually the problem if the product is better, the players seem happy and they've got a lot more options and they're get. You know, people are Sticking around like, what's the, what's actually wrong?

[Clark Kellogg]

Well, Joe, I would only say that the concern I have with the multiple transfers is that the exchange of education for athletic ability, that's going to end up not being what it should be for the vast majority of the players. We know a very small percentage of college players, no matter how good they are in college, will not play pro. And clearly being able to monetize your name, image and likeness, take advantage of revenue share, maybe get a real head start financially. For the very select few, it might be life changing money, but for the vast majority it will not be. And if you leave the exchange piece of the education off the table, then I think you do yourself a disservice. And that's the concern I have. I don't like kids being able to bounce multiple times just from the standpoint that it's not really conducive to developing in most cases. Now, I'm not going to say there aren't exceptions, but in general I'm in favor of nil. It's long overdue. There was no reason, if you earned a college athletic scholarship that you should be penalized because you're on scholarship in regards to monetizing your name, image and likeness. But I know for me and for the vast majority of my college teammates who didn't get to the NBA, my education experience, not just going to class, my education experience changed my life. Changed my life. And I know what education can do. And it's more guaranteed than perhaps any other vehicle to change your life. My college, my three, our three children are college graduates because I was one. And I know that kind of impact is available. And for many of these kids, their athletic ability is the opportunity to get that piece. And I just don't like to see that dismissed for a transactional bag of money.

[Van Lathan]

Wow. Take that, Joel. Okay, so. So Joel has. So we have, we have a. You have to settle an argument for us here. What's your opinion on the college player that goes and gets drafted? Test the waters in the NBA for a little while in the G League or something, then comes back to college. I think that this is incredibly destabilizing and in some ways competitively unfair. Joel loves it. Joel thinks you should be able to be 31.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Come back

[Van Lathan]

to college.

[Joel Anderson]

College basketball. The problem for years was that again, they didn't have enough good players. People didn't like the quality of the game. How about we get some older dudes who may get a chance to go to class? And there was never A problem.

[Clark Kellogg]

It's good debate, but there are rules. Actually, there are rules in place. And we've had a couple of cases where guys have gone to the pros and tried to come back. They got favorable rulings from judges that were biased towards their particular institute. This is not a trend. There are rules on the books that give you a finite time and window of what college eligibility is. This is. These are outliers. What you saw, it's not going to be a trend, and it shouldn't be. You don't have to go to college. Nobody makes you go to college. You can actually bide your time, play on the playground.

[Joel Anderson]

You can do anything you want.

[Clark Kellogg]

If you want to be a pro, you don't have to go to college. And when you go to college, you don't have. You don't have to leave. But if you leave because you think you're a pro and it don't work, you want to find something else to do.

[Joel Anderson]

Sometimes. Sometimes coaches make you leave, though. You know what I'm saying? We can talk about the story of Trayvon Duvall.

[Clark Kellogg]

No, no. You always have options and choices, Joel. I know that.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay. I feel like sometimes. Remember there was that couple years at Duke where a couple of guys got pushed out maybe before they were ready because they had to make way for the next freshman year.

[Tate Frazier]

No, no.

[Clark Kellogg]

There is some of that. That goes on, clearly.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Clark Kellogg]

And kids have been running away from schools for different reasons. Maybe they get over recruited and the coach is seeing that. There's no way that. So that goes on. That's been part of the landscape of business for a long time. And yet. And still, that's part of growing up, too. You got to evaluate the landscape. You got to grow into being realistic about what's your best option, what are your opportunities. But leaving and then thinking because the system's changed a little bit, that you've got a. You've got an infinite clock to go back to college. I'm not rolling with that.

[Joel Anderson]

I hear you on that, Clark, and I agree. The only thing is that I feel like a lot of the impetus for the change or the change of behavior and doing right. The responsibility of the burden is always put on players. They never say, hey, coaches, you guys are running off guys. Why don't you have players that want to stay at your program? Why don't you create a program in an environment where these guys would actually want to stay and not transfer? Because there are schools where this doesn't go on. Yeah, that's right. Right. That's Right. And so that's the only, that's the only thing I, I say. It's like we said, well, the players have to make all the adjustments and the coaches just get to be millionaires. No, no.

[Clark Kellogg]

And I'm with you on that. I would love to see more restrictions placed on coaches other than buyouts. I would like. I mean, I would love to see that be a little more.

[Joel Anderson]

Imagine you went to North Carolina State last year. You know what I'm saying? You like, Will Wade's here, man. I got a good situation coming. And then, you know, a year later, that dude, he's hot.

[Clark Kellogg]

He's done bolted up. Yeah, no, no, I, I agree with you wholeheartedly in that regard. Play. And that's part of the reason I like the players now have the opportunity to transfer without penalty of sitting out. And I just don't think multiple times.

[Joel Anderson]

Right.

[Clark Kellogg]

Is the way to roll with it. That's all.

[Joel Anderson]

That's right.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

We saw guys that were going four schools in four years. I do feel like that has to get nipped in the bud at some point.

[Clark Kellogg]

At some, at some point. Take. We're going to have a case study of what.

[Joel Anderson]

He was just trying to fight me, man.

[Clark Kellogg]

Yeah, well, I know you guys like, but at some point we're going to have a case study around a number of these kids that have been in multiple schools. Some of them actually have graduated. Some of them have been graduate students. Many of them have not been, though. And it'll be interesting to see what happens with those situations over time as you get more data with teams, because we know you lose, you lose credit hours every time you transfer. That's not going with you. So how many of those guys are actually going to get the. Part of the equation a college degree. That was the initial beginning of the relationship.

[Joel Anderson]

Anyway, I have a question for you to settle another debate that we've had on here. Okay. And so, so you've been.

[Tate Frazier]

I apologize, Clark. We didn't know that you're going to be the arbiter here.

[Joel Anderson]

No, no, no, no.

[Van Lathan]

When you have wisdom, you use.

[Joel Anderson]

We need like. Yeah. A third party. An objective, wise third party that can handle somebody who's experienced. So that's why I want to ask you, Clark, you know, you've been in locker rooms a lot of your life. You know what I'm saying? You were a high school great. Your 51 points is still a state record for a championship game. You played at Ohio State. You played for the Pacers. You had kids that played and so you've been around the game for a long time. Is it really that unusual for athletes to occasionally tussle in the locker room when they're in a competitive environment? Because, you know what I'm saying? Like they say, oh, you know, it's weird that you all had fights and tussle. You tussled. No, it's a little.

[Clark Kellogg]

It's a little more commonplace than you would think.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay.

[Clark Kellogg]

Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Clark, let me ask you a question.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Clark Kellogg]

Testosterone.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, we know.

[Joel Anderson]

Thank you. Somebody's feeling testosterone.

[Clark Kellogg]

Somebody. Somebody doesn't want to be dismissed or thrown. Shade, and then hands drop, and you got a tough. So usually it's resolved pretty quick, though. That's the only thing. It's resolved pretty quick within a team environment. Okay, Listen to the man.

[Van Lathan]

Listen to the man. I want to let you know. I want to let you know something, Clark, you're talking about something different. You're talking about a fight. What he's talking about is Joel played college football at TCU, and in his room, room 227.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay,

[Van Lathan]

hold on. Wait a second. Guys would come to the room, and Joel would wrestle them for fun and for bonding. Clark was laughing because he realizes that typical teammate. That's not typical. Right. That's like Clark is talking about something. We see this. We know that happens. They fight.

[Tate Frazier]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

We know that y' all didn't wrestle. But what Joel is. Joel is saying that people would come down in the door room in room 227 and they would wrestle.

[Clark Kellogg]

I do know of guys that actually enjoy that. What Joel is talking about. I do. I don't know.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, it's a couple on every team. Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

All right, man, You've been homoerotic, dog.

[Clark Kellogg]

No, there were some guys that wanted to try. Try to grapple and show their manhood that. Well, yeah, I mean, there were a few, but I don't know if it's a common place as temper swearing and a fight breaking out, A temporary one at that. So those are two different animals, but they both exist. To what degree depends on maybe where you are in terms of school and what part of the country you're in.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. So I'mma ask a question that, like, everybody asks all the time, but you've covered the game for so long. You've seen so many great players come through. I'm put you on the spot a little bit. If you're gonna make an unbeatable Final Four team made up of players that you've covered over the years, think about guys at different positions. Who would be your unbeatable Final Four team of college players? We're not talking about what these guys went on to do in the pros of guys that you've covered in college. Who would be your unbeatable Final four team?

[Clark Kellogg]

Wow, man, that's an amazing question, but I've never thought about it from that standpoint. I would put a few names and again, I'm just going to throw names out, whether these would be the composition of a team. That would be tbd.

[Van Lathan]

But okay,

[Clark Kellogg]

I think you, you've got to consider. And I'm just. I'm going probably from 90 to present.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay.

[Clark Kellogg]

Okay, I'm going.

[Tate Frazier]

So no Isaiah, Thomas, no James, no

[Van Lathan]

Isaiah, no Kareem, no Y.

[Clark Kellogg]

Exactly.

[Joel Anderson]

No Derrick.

[Van Lathan]

No, no, I'm.

[Clark Kellogg]

I'm going just 90. That's 35 years.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

That's a whole generation.

[Clark Kellogg]

That's like two generations.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, that's right.

[Clark Kellogg]

So I'm just gonna go back there and so obviously I think you've got. I mean, Christian Laitner is in the, in the conversation.

[Van Lathan]

He's got to be on there or final. See, I know Joe's gonna be that. He.

[Joel Anderson]

I was just like, is. He said that. I'm thinking, man, he goes over Larry Johnson then.

[Clark Kellogg]

No, no, no, no, no, no. I wouldn't go. No, no, I'm. I'm actually going to that team too.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay.

[Clark Kellogg]

He would be my guy. Larry would be my guy of that group. I mean, Greg Anthony. But Larry would be. Larry would clearly be there. Larry would be there. You know, I would probably. Even though he wasn't a college tournament star, I would probably want AI in my mix too. I watched him. He was a different animal when he came on the scene. There was. I mean, he was. He was a big time football player and he played. Even though he was slight of body and frame, he played with the tenacity and aggressiveness of a football guy. And his speed was unbelievable. The speed that he had.

[Van Lathan]

A lot of people forget about his Georgetown days. A lot of people.

[Clark Kellogg]

Yeah, I was, I was covering him. That dude was something to behold. I probably. Yukon. I'd probably have to go Ray Allen.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Joel Anderson]

Yep.

[Clark Kellogg]

I'd probably put Ray.

[Tate Frazier]

They had a great matchup against each other once upon a time.

[Clark Kellogg]

Christians on the front line. I'm trying to think of a, of a big guy in this time frame.

[Van Lathan]

Well, you had Duncan, so you had. Yeah, Duncan in there. You had o' Neill in there. Yeah. Okafor later on. You have Okafor later on.

[Clark Kellogg]

Then you Got Jalen, you got the fans.

[Joel Anderson]

Anthony Davis, Chris Weber.

[Clark Kellogg]

Anthony Davis was a monster. Hey, I'm gonna try to come up with one.

[Van Lathan]

Thank you.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay,

[Clark Kellogg]

Put that one before Charles and Kenny offset and we gonna come up with our top seven because you need seven if you're gonna try to win.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that. You need to. You need a top seven. Two guys off the bench.

[Van Lathan]

Can I. Can I make a. I always like to have. So nobody gonna. As far as just being a dope basketball player, you can't go better than AI before that tournament. I always like that. Jacque Vteen Cleaves, back court player. Jalen Brunson Tyus Eddie Cameron, dollar guy who you just put the ball in his hand. All of these guys like these dependable guards that get you into your offense. Yeah, but I love having a guy like that on the college team.

[Clark Kellogg]

No, no, that's good, man. That's good. Yeah, I'm definitely going to think that one through. So you come up with a. Come up with a group because that's pretty. That's a heck of a question. I've never thought about that.

[Tate Frazier]

I like that. I like that setup, guys. Anything else we have for Clark? I just got one last thing. Joe, unless you have another question.

[Joel Anderson]

No, you can go ahead. Yeah, I feel like I asked my. My crazy question. Well, no, go ahead, go ahead and I'll see if I feel like asking it.

[Tate Frazier]

Well, this is a crazy thing, Clark. So Joel Anderson, who's been asking you questions today, he actually came up with Raise the roof back in the 90s. A lot of people give credit to the Houston commons, but Joel Anderson was actually the one to do it in Houston. So we like to ask our guests to always raise the roof on the way out, if you wouldn't mind. This is how we get it started.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, we get it started.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, just raise it up. There you go.

[Joel Anderson]

You know, the double, you know. Yeah,

[Van Lathan]

we admitted that. So.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, I can't ask a question after that. That's.

[Clark Kellogg]

Oh, yeah, no, we gotta stop right after. That's the climax.

[Tate Frazier]

There it is. Kellogg, thanks so much for joining Ringer Tailgate.

[Van Lathan]

Appreciate you.

[Tate Frazier]

Good luck in the final four and good luck handling Kenny and Chuck the rest of the way. I know that's hard work.

[Clark Kellogg]

It is fun work. It is challenging at times, but it's great fun too, man. Appreciate you guys. Great to hang out with you.

[Tate Frazier]

All right, there you have it. Clark Kellogg. Shout out to Clark Kellogg. He played ball with us. He had fun. I appreciate him. You Know, hanging out with us, obviously busiest time of the year for Clark Kellogg. But, Joel, you were saying you're a big fan of Clark Kellogg, right?

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yeah, man. I'm actually shocked that he had time to come on with us. Aren't you all a little bit? I mean, shout out to Allison for

[Tate Frazier]

getting the job done.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, and Allison, too, man.

[Van Lathan]

Allison doesn't get enough credit for what has happened on Tailgate. Allison is invaluable to the team. Shout out to Allison, man.

[Tate Frazier]

Also part of the Joel army. She has announced her allegiance to the Joel army. So it's good to have strength in numbers there. So you love to see that. Bill Bellamy. We're hoping to get that locked in soon. I know we promised that last week. That will be coming at some point. Also, some other big names are on the list, and I know guests are always, you know, interesting, but I think we've had some great guests. And I wanted to shout out Marcus Lattimore again. I've had so many people reach out. Oh, yeah, just from in my, you know, world down in North Carolina, South Carolina, that were just like. That was an amazing interview and he was an amazing guy, so I wanted to give him some love. Let's do some headlines quickly in college football. Lane Kiffin. Let's start here. Always a good headline to go for a 40 million dollar roster. Van. That is apparently what it is. It continues to move up. Eventually we're gonna get to the NFL, you know, assessment here, where we have a roster that is over a hundred million dollars. In college football, it seems like. But 40 million, it used to be 20 million was insane. Then 30 million was insane. Now we're at 40 million. Your thoughts on link?

[Joel Anderson]

How much. How much advance put on that? Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, so here's the deal. Like, big GS don't count each other's money out. You shouldn't.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay, my bad.

[Tate Frazier]

I never got no pocket watching.

[Van Lathan]

You know what? So I actually have thoughts here. Obviously, you want the $40 million roster, right? I think we can all agree that you want to be resourced in a way that you can go out and essentially buy the best players. You want that, right? But it also puts pressure on you. Now, Ohio State was able to take a team and go win a national championship with a really expensive roster. Seen other teams that have been able to take really expensive rosters and take them and make deep playoff runs with them. But when you do that, there is also an extra added scrutiny that's on you. Right now, the Dodgers are playing in La They've gotten off to a really good start this season, and they have an insanely expensive roster. It's also bore fruit. They've won the last two World Series. They won a World series back in 2020, kind of before they really start to spend, like, crazy money. But for Lane Kiffin, while it's awesome that they've been able to go get a lot of players to kind of turn a roster over and fill a lot of holes, there's also a lot more eyes on what's happening in Baton Rouge, not just from inside of LSU culture, but from outside, too.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, I mean, that's. That's a. That's a lot of money, man. I guess, as Vance said, you'd rather have that money, have those resources to build that kind of a roster than not, but, you know, there's no way, when that gets out, there's just no way to. To tamp down expectations. Like, there's no way. There's no way. There's no way for Lane Kiffin to underachieve next year or to say, well, you know what? This is the first year of, you know, my first year here. When you. When they tell you $40 million, everybody has an unreasonable expectation of what that's supposed to look like.

[Tate Frazier]

Is it possible to. You mentioned underachieve, but is it possible to overachieve? Like, let's say Lane Kiffin gets him in the playoff, and everyone's like, hey, man, that was a great first season for Lane Kiffin. We're off to the races. Or is it like, well, he was supposed to do that, and we didn't win the national championship, so we're upset.

[Van Lathan]

That.

[Tate Frazier]

That, to me, is kind of the question for this program as well.

[Van Lathan]

To me, as an LSU fan, I think what people want is a return to college football relevance, and that relevance has to be rooted in something beyond the dysfunction of the program. I think that a playoff run right now for Lane Kiffin in year one would almost certainly. Certainly satisfy the fan base. Okay, so.

[Joel Anderson]

So wait, nine and three. With nine and three and just missing the playoffs. No, with that now 10 and two and losing the first round, 10 and

[Van Lathan]

two, losing the first round. Depend on how you lost, who you lost to, like, what happened, but, like, 10 and 2 getting into the playoffs, I think that, of course, there would be some people that would complain and said they should have done more, but you'd have to consider that it is the first season that he did just get there.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, I hear you, bro. You just said, if the man doesn't make the playoffs next year with a team that was, I mean, hollowed out and had to get his coach fired. If they don't make the playoffs next year, which is really hard, people are going to be disappointed. That's just a really tough way. And again, I'm not saying that's fair, unfair, but if you're Lane Kiffin, that just is a really tough way to start your first year there. Like your first year, you're already under the gun, you know.

[Van Lathan]

Well, I mean, the reality is this, and we've talked about this almost ad nauseam, you don't take a job at Oklahoma, lsu, usc, you don't take a job at Texas, you don't take a job at any of those schools, at Miami, you don't take those jobs. If you're going to buckle under expectation. It makes no sense. All those other, it makes, it makes no sense to take a job at a place like that if expectation is going to scare you. It just doesn't. Then you say it. Ole Miss.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yo, I, I hear you on that. And I mean, obviously Lane Kiffin is made of something, you know, made of steel in a way, right? Because he's, he's willing to take that on and, and, and to deal with that pressure. But I'm just saying he almost enjoys

[Tate Frazier]

the chaos, you know what I mean? I think he likes being uncomfortable. Do you think he enjoys. Yeah, I think he enjoyed when he

[Joel Anderson]

worked for Al Davis. I said I don't think he'll enjoy, I don't think he'll enjoy that. I don't think he's going to enjoy it if people start getting mad.

[Tate Frazier]

Wouldn't be doing tick tocks with Libby Dunn and the Cavender tweet wins if you don't.

[Joel Anderson]

I don't think he knows another way, but I don't think he, I don't think he, he knows another way to do it, which is good. He has a method, he's confident in himself. He clearly thinks that they're going to be a good team. But all it takes is one injury, a couple of fumbles go the wrong way. Oh, you miss a field goal and you're eight and four. And the line between eight and four is not that.

[Van Lathan]

I, I, I just don't understand. This is the, of all the things that we talk about on the show, this is the thing that I most fundamentally don't understand. Okay, yes, you're right. Unless your team is hyper dominant, you're always one bounce of the ball away from suffering a loss and having your Season go off the rails or you're one win away. If you, if your team doesn't have a good culture or if you don't have good depth, whatever, it could always go off the rails. But this is college football, and what you're doing is legitimately chasing ghosts. You're in a program, that program has a tradition. That program has a history. The program has an expectation. The sport has a tradition, a culture, an expectation. And people are going out there and watching every Saturday to make memories that are going to last forever. And they want people capable of making those memories. So like to, to say, hey, you might not be able to do this. What person in any sport, anywhere, in any competitive endeavor, anywhere that's been great goes, you know what? I might not be able to be like, whoever has thought like that.

[Joel Anderson]

Because everybody, everybody understands context, man. And everybody would understand that saying, if this guy doesn't go at least 10 and 2 and make it into the playoffs and you have to go 10 and 2 and this point, because nobody has made it with a worse record than that. This is the schedule you have to play next year. You open with Clemson, you're at Ole Miss. You got to play Texas A and M, you got to play your. At Auburn. Who knows who Auburn's gonna be? Alabama, Texas.

[Van Lathan]

But you say the conference sucks.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm saying these.

[Van Lathan]

If the conference. It's not. But you.

[Joel Anderson]

When Florida played that schedule last year. Year. I know that is a very difficult schedule. I didn't say conference sucks. I said that sometimes be a little overvalued.

[Van Lathan]

Like what I'm saying. Like what I'm. What I'm saying is it number one, all of those teams, like all of those teams are beatable teams. There's no behemoth in the sec.

[Joel Anderson]

Texas might be preseason number one.

[Tate Frazier]

And we saw what they were last year when they were pre.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, right. Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

Texas A and M dotted that eye last year. Ole Miss might be better than y'. All. And y' all gotta go to Ole Miss. That's three losses.

[Van Lathan]

Ole Miss mighty be better. There could be.

[Joel Anderson]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

But here is the reality and it's just. And it exists in anything. Yeah. If you take a job at a high profile place, if this job is coach of the Los Angeles Lakers, manager of the New York Yankees, president of the United States of America. Don't go for it if you can't deal with the expectations.

[Joel Anderson]

No, this is, this is, this is so you can't handle the heat.

[Van Lathan]

Get out of the kitchen if you can't. If you can't can't handle it. If you can't handle it, then stay where you were before.

[Joel Anderson]

There's, There's. There's a world in which you can leave one school, go to a school that just fired its coach, still has a lot of talent, maybe it's underperformed in recent years, but keep expectations low and not. I don't know. I mean, again, $40 million roster says something else. And, and then Lane Kiff would be like, well, you know, we. We lost a lot of people, but we think we'll be a pretty good team. We'll have a chance. And then Maybe you go 9 and 3 and people say, all right, well, you know, whatever. But when you get out to $40 million and people are like, well, you got no excuses now, brother. I don't give a. What happens. You know what I'm saying?

[Van Lathan]

Excuse me.

[Joel Anderson]

Right. Go ahead. No, no, no, but I'm just saying is that. Again, I just think sometimes expectations can be out of work. The kind of expectations you're talking about are the reason that schools are paying tens of millions of dollars in buyouts. Because it's just. Not just. I. I feel like those sort of expectations escalate all the turnover in college football. Right. It's just like college sports. Yeah. Year one, not 10 and two. And in the playoffs, he's on the hot seat. He underachieves.

[Van Lathan]

Nobody says that. Hold on. Yeah, well, you said people will be

[Joel Anderson]

disappointed when you said people would be.

[Van Lathan]

Right, right, right, right. So I never.

[Joel Anderson]

With 22 and a plate and a play.

[Van Lathan]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I didn't say that.

[Joel Anderson]

Missing playoffs.

[Van Lathan]

What I said was. What I said was people will be disappointed. Lane Kiffin's not gonna be on the hot seat if he goes 93.

[Joel Anderson]

That was an exaggeration.

[Van Lathan]

Hold on.

[Joel Anderson]

Don't distract me.

[Van Lathan]

But I'm just making. No, I'm not distracting. I'm saying your. The way that you just formed your argument was that the fact you said coaching turnover. Coaching turnover implies that in some way, Lane Kiffin's job is going to be connected to him going 9 to 3. Lane Kiffin is not going to be on the hot seat. But what I'm saying is in the game of high level college football, in the game of high level college sports, John Shire right now from Duke, there are going to be people.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Like in Duke, like in Durham, that go. You know what? He lost two years in a row with these massive leads in these really chokish ways, and we're not used to seeing that. And we have a standard here, even in the way we want to be entertained. And if that standard is, you go to the Final Four, you're amongst the best teams, you lose there in a nail biter. Maybe we can deal with that. Maybe what we can't deal with is two years in a row being up 15 at halftime and then losing like that. But I think it's just an odd thing and I'm really trying to wrap my head around it, to not have a standard, to not have expectations.

[Joel Anderson]

You can have multiple expectations, and I think a reasonable expectation would be a competitive team, that it could go, it could be anywhere from 8 and 4 to higher than that.

[Van Lathan]

But, but what I'm saying is the more in anything, the more you spend on something and the more you Invest. You've invested $100 million into the coach, then you've taken the coach and you've given the coach a $40 million roster. You did not do that to go 8 and 4 like, you did that to go for it all.

[Joel Anderson]

Your historical norm is 8 and 4. That's the thing, though. Like, the historical norm for LSU is 8 and 4 with, with some exceptions of, like, brilliance. And like, all of that's fine.

[Van Lathan]

All of that's fine. But, but like, it is when it's not all that is fine. Right? And what if you want to outperform your historical norm? What if you want sustained excellence and dominance? It's just, it's, it's an odd thing. And to me, one thing that, like, one thing that, like, leads to coaching turnover to me is not necessarily the expectations of fan bases. The expectation of fan bases is not what leads to, to coaching turnover. To me and coaches being fired and stuff like that. I think there are a lot of guys out there coaching in various sports that don't know how to hit their own weight, that don't know what they're prepared for, that don't know how, like, if. So to me, the fans, the expectations of the fans are like, that's infinite. That's going to exist 20 years ago. It's going to exist. You want that because that means your program is competitive, you have great facilities, you're competing for recruits. The expectations fuel all of that. The worst thing any program, anywhere, any fan base can have is apathy. But sometimes the coaches, they don't know what they're getting into. There's no way that Billy Napier was prepared for the Florida job. If he was, he would not have insisted on play calling. He would have delegated more he would have ran the ship down there. Like it was something that wasn't all about his cult of personality. He'd have understood. And a lot of times these guys don't do a self scout of themselves and what they can achieve and what their limits are. Right? The fans, their limits and expectations, they stay the same like. Like they are. Those are the things that undergird the sport. That's why the big TV deals and all of that stuff happen. So either Lane Kiffin can do it or he can't.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay, here's the thing is I'm saying most coaches are bound to be fired because most people are not good at this and most people are impatient. So a lot of that is a culture fit or maybe something that they've had misfortune. Their quarterback, they never find the right quarterback. Guys get hurt, whatever you freeze excuse. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah. Well, people, most of the, most coaches are not going to end up and be Nick Saban. Most of them are going to be average guys or, you know, whatever. Right. Like most head coaching moves don't work out. Okay? And so that's the thing. It's just like given that it's okay to be like, yeah, I think that like for me at TS TCU, I think that we should be Big 12 championship competitive, like. And so you want the coach fired and then so. Well, I'm torn on that because I'm just like, I need this.

[Van Lathan]

You talk about the coach.

[Joel Anderson]

I've gotten more information about like, about resources and stuff like that.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Joel Anderson]

You know what I'm saying? Like where it ranks.

[Tate Frazier]

But could a new coach get you more resources?

[Joel Anderson]

All of a sudden you ended up.

[Van Lathan]

You dis the coach. You miss the coach, do you not?

[Joel Anderson]

I'm not only with dumb person doesn't reconsider their information when you get new information. I'm not an idiot. Like, I was like, no, I like that you're nimble. You know what I'm saying? My understanding is that it's. It could be Sunny Dykes. It could be Billy. Stop it.

[Tate Frazier]

This could be Billy said, this is a new Joel from the start of the episode.

[Joel Anderson]

No, no, I'm saying. No, no, no. What I'm saying is that you could. It could be Sunny Dykes. It could be the lack of investment. All of a sudden you're in a league where BYU and Texas Tech are spending an enormous amount of money that you don't necessarily. That you haven't committed yet. Like you're trying to figure out if you've got that Level of commitment, if you want to make that level of commitment. And so, like, under that circumstance, I'm like, well, maybe 9 and 4 is the best we can do. Maybe my expectation has to be that, you know, if, if they, if they lose Sonny Dykes, maybe that, you know, they get somebody else in and he's. He's worse. You know what I'm saying? So I. Until they make that again with tcu, I don't know what the commitment level is among alumni and resources, everything. Yeah. And so I need more. I need more data. We're in a new league, and 9 and 4 isn't great, but I can live with that because I know what the historical norm at TCU has been like. I want to see more.

[Van Lathan]

Cool. Think about this, though.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Think about how you felt when you didn't have all that information.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

That. That you're in a unique position to get right. The, the, the. The regular horn frog is not going to be able to make calls. They didn't play for tcu. They didn't work for espn. Their expectation has to do with their connection to the program culturally and what the football means to them. And so that person was you during the season when you, for whatever reason, I don't know what it was, continuously called out the coach of your program when no one even was bringing up TCU for any reason whatsoever.

[Joel Anderson]

Well, actually, they did play. They played one of the highest rated games of the year. I'm not even fantastic. A game higher than TCU this year. Oh, the season opening.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. North Carolina. Tcu best game.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, that's right.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look at that. The Jordan boat. Okay, so, so, like, so, so, like, like, what I would say is, like, you, you have talked about this. You have been the people that you are talking about for whatever reason.

[Joel Anderson]

Well, I mean, a lot of same people. Go ahead. I'm sorry, man. My bad. Go for it. No, no, no.

[Tate Frazier]

I love that. I was trying to do headlines, and now we're going to tcu. Lsu. Ex.

[Joel Anderson]

No, I mean, the fight here is my favorite debates. A lot of the people that are in those chat rooms and stuff like that, unbeknownst to me, are people that are connected boosters. Like, there's a lot of people. There's a lot of information I'm not privy to because I'm not on the board. And I, I, I mean, I know somebody on the board, but it ain't like I pump him for information or anything.

[Tate Frazier]

It's not a booster like band.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, I give Money to the school, to the journalism department. See, the journalism.

[Tate Frazier]

Me too, Joel.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm on the board of visitors at my, at my, at my school. And so, you know, that's, I'm on

[Tate Frazier]

the alumni board for the J school.

[Joel Anderson]

So there you go. There you go. Yeah, man. Giving back, you know.

[Van Lathan]

All right, just let you guys know.

[Joel Anderson]

What are you doing this up. You know what I'm saying?

[Van Lathan]

A lot.

[Joel Anderson]

A lot. No, no, no.

[Van Lathan]

A lot. No, a lot. Because y'. All this information. Yeah, but just let you know, average viewers in 2025 for college football teams. Alabama, Georgia, Texas, Tennessee, Oklahoma, LSU at 6.42 million viewers per. So were you talking about.

[Joel Anderson]

Nobody was talking about tcu. My response.

[Van Lathan]

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Daddy. You said the big, the big Monday

[Joel Anderson]

game by the first week of the season. Whoa. A lot of people watch that game. You said that. Nobody's talking about that. Nobody cared about us, Father.

[Van Lathan]

So all I'm saying, all I'm saying is this. With tcu, shout out to tcu. The horn frogs do like, what is it? This?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, that's right. That's the horn frog.

[Van Lathan]

Is this one? Is this one?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, you got the two fingers together. Come on, dog.

[Van Lathan]

Neighborhood, Neighborhood Horn frogs. So shout out to them. But what like, I, I, I, I actually, I, I do think that there have been times where there always stops where fan bases treat coaches poorly. They have two quick triggers with coaches. They don't let coaches get into their thing. And sometimes that bear that, that actually bears fruit for a program where they stick with a coach for a long time, the guy figures it out, turns it around, and then you're good. I think in certain cases, you just got to know, if you're Lincoln Riley, you need to win next year. Yeah, you need to win, like, if you're Lincoln Riley, like, you need to,

[Joel Anderson]

you need, you need to beat ucla. This will be year five coming up. So he's been there four years. That's a, that's like, that's, I think that's a fair. That's a.

[Tate Frazier]

And he was the first Lane Kiffin contract.

[Joel Anderson]

You know what I mean? USC fans are definitely at a point right now where they should be like, hey, man, yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And by the way, Lane Kiffin and Brian Kelly were almost in the exact same situation in terms of how, how their 10 years went. Right? Like, you had both coaches did enough to make people go, oh, okay, cool. Because we did get a Hosier trophy winning quarterback during Brian Kelly stretch. We got 10 win seasons. It wasn't like it was a complete, absolute dumpster fire mess. But what it became, what became obvious to LSU fans at least, is that there was some sort of disconnect from Brian Kelly's style of coaching and dominant football and football that looks competitively inspired. And that is something. And you can make the argument that SC is good, but they were, they're not that much different than what they were before he got there.

[Joel Anderson]

That's right.

[Van Lathan]

And you just don't pay $100 million for that, you know? You know, so Clay Helton was basically run out of town. And, and you, you look at some of the things as well.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, same results, but same results.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, here's the thing though, and I just. Do you remember the last time Lane Kiffin faced a year where he had one of the largest rosters in the country and it was like, man, you better make the playoffs this year. And he didn't make the playoffs that year. That was two, it was a 2024 Ole Miss team, but they had one of the, the, the, you know, the, the highest paid rosters in college football and everything else and it just didn't work out for them. So again, it's not, I, I, I understand that LSU thinks that this should be a great year and I can be, it's reasonable to expect that all that money and with Lane Kiffin, that you're going to be 10 and 2 or better. I get it. But again, it just, that is really hard, bro. And I just, I, I think LSU fans need to be prepared for the idea that it might not turn out that way. And I'm not saying that they're totally unreasonable, but I'm just saying that like, you know, just, it just seems like a tough situation to go into when Everybody's talking about 40 million dollar roster. 40 million dollar roster, that's a lot of money. Better do something with it. It's just, that's not the way I would want to start.

[Tate Frazier]

My, my, let's, let's bring Billy on. He's got the top 100 watch games.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay. Why would anybody care about that list? Jesus.

[Billy Gill]

I don't know.

[Joel Anderson]

That's, that's boring. I'm going to. Right. If you're listening to this podcast right now, if Billy reads off to you ratings of college football games from the previous year, that is boring content and I want to just stamp it as that right now.

[Billy Gill]

Well, it's interesting that you should say that because I have a breakdown and it was, I think it became a TCU vs. LSU thing and who played in bigger games, who cared more or whatever. I will tell you that the program that appeared in the Most of the 100 games is Alabama. They had 13 appearances in the top 100 watch games. Then there was Summit 10, 9, 8. LSU came in tied with Miami and Michigan at seven games in the top 100 watch games. TCU.

[Joel Anderson]

Congratulations.

[Billy Gill]

Well, hold on. TCU. Aren't you curious to know how many of your games are in the top 100?

[Joel Anderson]

I'm, you know, not really, but go ahead.

[Billy Gill]

It was two games. You had two games in the top 100.

[Joel Anderson]

Not bad.

[Billy Gill]

The highest was TCU, North Carolina, that came in at number 50.

[Joel Anderson]

That's pretty good. It's a Monday. Most people don't watch top 50.

[Billy Gill]

You just said the opposite of that.

[Tate Frazier]

You just watch. Yo, we'll take it. Top 50.

[Joel Anderson]

We'll take it. I'm not a problem with it. But you were starting.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, Billy, let me ask you a question. How many Colorado games are in there?

[Billy Gill]

Oh, that's a good question. Okay, I'll tell you the TC.

[Joel Anderson]

That's an interesting question.

[Billy Gill]

The other game was USC, TCU, the Alamo Bowl, 4.9 million. All right.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, 9 million.

[Tate Frazier]

Is there any other North Carolina games?

[Billy Gill]

Billy, one moment, please.

[Tate Frazier]

Do Colorado first.

[Joel Anderson]

This is interesting, huh? Yeah, yeah. How many FIU games made the top one?

[Billy Gill]

Well, I. I would think zero, but that's because they were watching the live stream where I was on, so.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. Split viewers.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh. Even we do want a game this year. You know what I'm saying? I.

[Billy Gill]

Listen, I floated that out there to you guys. If you want me to continue to push that, I think I can pull some strings and get all of us on a project.

[Tate Frazier]

I would love it.

[Joel Anderson]

I would love it. That sounds fun. Would y' all tell Gate. Would y' all listen to that

[Billy Gill]

Gators

[Tate Frazier]

right in the comments? Yeah.

[Billy Gill]

I only see one Colorado game from this year. Georgia Tech.

[Tate Frazier]

Colorado, which was the first. That was the first Friday of the season.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah. I don't.

[Van Lathan]

Isn't that interesting? Ain't that interesting?

[Joel Anderson]

It's already over. The people aren't as interested.

[Van Lathan]

We haven't. We need to do a whole episode on the state of Colorado football.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, man.

[Tate Frazier]

What's going on with Coach Prime?

[Van Lathan]

Like, what's going on with Coach Prime? Has, like, what's the. What's happening now? Is there still the belief. Is there still the interest? Has Dion is so beloved. We love Dion. Has Dion's personal health journey sort of subtracted away from Any expectations on the field? Because we're just happy to see Dion out there.

[Joel Anderson]

Like, he lost his best player in the off season to Jordan Seaton, the tackle. He's at Oregon now, I think, right?

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. And then he was talking about how, like, it was basically like a circus of sorts at Colorado and that he was happy to, like, be at a real program.

[Van Lathan]

Where did. Where did Jordan Seaton go?

[Tate Frazier]

I don't think he went to Oregon. I thought. I thought he went to the SEC. Did he go?

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, that Friday? That's right. $40 million. Hey, man.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, where did he go? What happened?

[Joel Anderson]

Y' all spent the most money. That's great.

[Van Lathan]

No, no, he's.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

That's a. Donald. Yeah. Okay. Yes, sir.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay. Hey, man, I can't wait. You know, 10 and 2, 10 and 2 or disappointment. That's good. It's gonna make season amazing. Me, too.

[Van Lathan]

I can't wait for this.

[Joel Anderson]

Me, too.

[Van Lathan]

We'll put another route. I got. I gotta. I can do as much root work as possible possible until we get it right.

[Tate Frazier]

I'm excited for all the root work ahead.

[Joel Anderson]

Wait, what happened to the list? Billy.

[Billy Gill]

North Carolina had one appearance as a gaming at CCU. This is according to footballscoop.com okay, so,

[Tate Frazier]

you know, so Colorado won. So Coach prime and Bill Belichick, we thought we're gonna be two talking points, man.

[Joel Anderson]

We really did.

[Tate Frazier]

They got nothing. And. And by all accounts, I've talked to sources on the ground. North Carolina will only be a bit better this season.

[Clark Kellogg]

Season.

[Tate Frazier]

So it will not be much better. So it can't be much worse. So.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay, wait, let me ask you this. If you guys went 6 and 6 next year and made a bowl game, would you be okay with that?

[Tate Frazier]

No, really, I think it's. I think, you know, I think they cash. They're gonna cash their checks, and then I think it's gonna end, you know?

[Van Lathan]

So.

[Joel Anderson]

So you. So, okay.

[Tate Frazier]

$10 million a year, six wins. Joel, that's not good.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, no. I mean, I. I know, but it's just, like. It's gonna be tough to be much better. I mean, you. We would be shocked if they ended up 8 and 4, 9 and 3 next year.

[Tate Frazier]

If they went 93 next year, I would be beyond shocked.

[Joel Anderson]

Well, that's what I'm saying.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. I mean, I'd be so happy.

[Van Lathan]

Tremendous improvement.

[Tate Frazier]

It would be a success.

[Joel Anderson]

Right? But we. So we. It's just a given that we kind of go into this knowing. All right, that's it. Coach Bill.

[Tate Frazier]

Well, I asked you, Joel. Who's the quarterback in North Carolina?

[Joel Anderson]

Great. Oh, oh, boy. From West Carolina. Taryn?

[Tate Frazier]

Apparently not. Apparently it's his kid, Billy Edwards, who's from Wisconsin.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, the Wisconsin kid. That's. That's right.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

So like I don't have much. That's a middling ACC quarterback.

[Billy Gill]

So where are you gonna find your nine wins? You start out with tcu. We'll give you there. I mean, that's an Ireland game. We'll probably be there, right?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, no, we will be there for that.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, we gotta be at the pub there.

[Van Lathan]

We're going, we're going to Ireland, guys. If you guys want to come out there and hang out with us. We're going to Ireland.

[Billy Gill]

East Tennessee is next. That's probably a win. Clemson maybe.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, I was trying to give us one.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah. Pit loss.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, man.

[Billy Gill]

At Duke Loss. Syracuse. That Syracuse might be lost.

[Tate Frazier]

That might be a toss up game. I'll give them 50. 50 there.

[Billy Gill]

Then you have Miami loss at Yukon.

[Tate Frazier]

Lost.

[Joel Anderson]

You can win. No, man, come on.

[Tate Frazier]

We played Yukon in a bowl game a couple years ago. Long.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, come on, man. They don't even have Jim or Junior there anymore, bro. Come on, man.

[Tate Frazier]

It's on the road. That's tough.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, it's. It's East Hartford. Yeah.

[Billy Gill]

Verse versus Louisville loss.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah.

[Billy Gill]

At Virginia loss. Then you host NC State. Did you have a single win on your, on your schedule there, Tate?

[Tate Frazier]

I think they're winning three games based on that.

[Billy Gill]

What were they, Eastern Tennessee?

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. East Tennessee State. Tcu.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay. Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

And what's the other one?

[Billy Gill]

Maybe Syracuse.

[Tate Frazier]

Maybe Syracuse. Yeah. Three.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Okay. I mean, so really two. You know.

[Tate Frazier]

You know, you know, I think they shocked the World Week 0 against TCU. Everybody's back on the bandwagon.

[Joel Anderson]

You don't, you don't believe that at all. You know that.

[Tate Frazier]

No Hoover, No Josh Hoover.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, yeah, man, we got the kid from Harvard, man. Jaden Craig.

[Tate Frazier]

I know. That's why I wanted Carolina again. It was my favorite Portal quarterback.

[Joel Anderson]

And I almost kind of wonder if TCU got, you know, got hyped, got hip to him from listening to me and they were like, she might check this hard time.

[Tate Frazier]

We talked about.

[Joel Anderson]

We talked about him in the mid season. You brought him up. You did. And I was wondering if they were probably.

[Van Lathan]

You probably deserve credit for that. Until heifers takes it away.

[Tate Frazier]

It laughs about it in your face.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm totally, I'm totally calm. It's not gonna work on me, brother.

[Tate Frazier]

I love that full circle there. I. I have One other headline. Yeah, I got one more headline. I wanted to hit Division 1. NCAA announced Wednesday they approved major penalties including head coach suspensions and football budget fines for programs that seek to circumvent the transfer portal by adding players outside the designated window. Again, this was the old Miss Clemson situation where he would drew from Clemson, then signed with Ole Miss. Now if you do that, withdraw from a school, bypass the portal window, the head coach will be suspended for six games, which equates to half of the regular season. That suspension includes a pro prohibition on all football activities, recruiting and on field coaching and administrative duties. So, Joel, you're laughing. Why is that funny? I think that's a good rule there.

[Joel Anderson]

IV. Bro, they're never going to enforce that rule. Nobody. I mean, you know what it would be.

[Tate Frazier]

They had to put this rule in. So by, by this, this rule, Pete Golding would miss six games this year.

[Joel Anderson]

Let me look up the list of blackhead coaches and FPS football. Let me see which one is going to get fired, get suspended for six games for that. Mike Loxley, Mike Locksley and Fran Brown, you want you on the hot seat.

[Tate Frazier]

Syracuse and Maryland, if, if they, if

[Joel Anderson]

they, if they enforce that rule, it is going to be you and you're going to, you're going to be the one to take the punishment for that. So be aware of it. But the thing is they, the reason they have to make these rules is because they, they're the ones doing all that shady, man.

[Tate Frazier]

I think, I think Davos the one that made this rule.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, it's a dabo rule. But they can't, they cannot afford to enforce it unless it's some poor, unfortunate black head coach who's going to get in trouble for doing what everybody else did.

[Van Lathan]

God damn.

[Joel Anderson]

What? So did I make it bad?

[Van Lathan]

I'm sorry, you didn't make it. No, no, I'm with it. So this is, this rule is strictly for.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, what's the, what's the rule for? What was it? Was her boy Pooh Richardson or who was the Richardson that Arizona book, Emmanuel Richardson.

[Tate Frazier]

Book Richardson?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, yeah. Book Richardson. This the poor assistant coach, you know,

[Tate Frazier]

super, super nice guy. Like he literally. Yeah, he got the book thrown at him.

[Joel Anderson]

Sean Miller, man, he went, he went on. He's fine.

[Tate Frazier]

Making millions of dollars. Book Richardson can't get a job.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm just saying, man, I, I'm not, I'm just. The facts of the world is that black, black people tend to get policed a little different. I hope, I hope it's not. I hope that's not a controversial statement, but I don't think it is. I just.

[Van Lathan]

It just, it just. It was interesting that we went from the rule and then it was like, we gonna fire a black coach with this rule if they enforce the black coach because we. We gave them the blueprint to go get Fran Brown.

[Tate Frazier]

You think they would do d You

[Joel Anderson]

think they would do. Do you think they would do Dion? You think they would go out.

[Tate Frazier]

That feels like something that Dion would try to bro.

[Van Lathan]

If they would have fired Dion over some like that, there'll be a Black Lives Matter marketplace. Like, they fuck bro. It don't matter. Dion got the. Here's the thing. Deion got the culture, man. That's it. It's over it. Stop doing it. Deion got the culture. Black people love Deion Sanders. Have you seen the conversations about Shador Sanders?

[Tate Frazier]

Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Like, about. Like they just.

[Joel Anderson]

I hope he balls, man.

[Tate Frazier]

He's a Pro Bowler, Joe.

[Van Lathan]

I know he went to the Pro Bowl. Went to the Pro Bowl.

[Joel Anderson]

Do you, do you.

[Van Lathan]

Do you respect him for that? You respect him going to the Pro Bowl?

[Joel Anderson]

I don't. I. I respect that he has started. He's an NFL starter and I look forward to seeing more.

[Tate Frazier]

I think the All Pro is the real respect the Pro Bowl. I mean, Mitch Trubisky was a Pro Bowler.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, that's what I'm saying. It's like, I mean, I didn't make a Pro bowl, so I try not to disk because that's obviously an impressive. Never got the accomplishment. Never got there. Never got there. But. But you know, I, I get it. Like, Shadua Sanders is a fifth round draft pick. Man. The fact that he started.

[Tate Frazier]

And so was Kirk Cousins.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Did that. I mean, that is. That's incredible. Like, that's an amazing story to even get that far. So I don't want to throw. Throw hate on the brother. But like, yeah, I want to see more next year.

[Tate Frazier]

I mean, luckily his new head coach wants him to be the quarterback, so.

[Joel Anderson]

Right.

[Tate Frazier]

And said that he would have taken him in the first round. So I think that's encouraging. If you talk about like, man.

[Joel Anderson]

But then when they were talking. But they got desean Watson coming back. Sander, you know, he's.

[Tate Frazier]

Man, come on. That. That's got to end at some point. Like, really this has gone on.

[Joel Anderson]

I don't know, man. What if he can ball, though?

[Tate Frazier]

He can't ball. I promise you that he cannot.

[Joel Anderson]

He might be healthy now, bro. You know what?

[Tate Frazier]

I'm saying, I still can't believe he got that deal. I mean, he was incredible at Clemson. He was a great quarterback at Clemson.

[Joel Anderson]

He was good. He was good in Houston.

[Van Lathan]

I was.

[Tate Frazier]

I was more to. I was a Taj Boy guy. I love Todd Boyd. Todd boy would seem like a better person, too.

[Joel Anderson]

Shout out, shout out. My dude, Malik Sharif. That was his ties, was one of his clients, man. Him and EJ Manuel. Remember ej man, ej, I just went

[Tate Frazier]

on the radio yesterday with EJ Manuel. I'm serious. College basketball. Yes.

[Joel Anderson]

What's up, bro?

[Tate Frazier]

Y', all, My boy Malik, he really pressed me. He asked me who Caroline should hire, and then I gave, like, the political answer, and he was like, but who do you want them to hire? And I was like, all right, D.J.

[Joel Anderson]

good. So I have to have you on the press box so people don't listen to tailgate. People listening to tailgate tomorrow. I'm sorry. Listen to press box tomorrow. I'm have Bomani on for the first half of the show, and then Tate on the second half of the show.

[Tate Frazier]

Oh, wow.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. And so you need to think about. No, you're not going to be at the same time.

[Tate Frazier]

No, I'm saying, like, we're both triangle affiliated.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

My first job as an Internet. Oh, try radio show. Bomani was the radio show before me. So, like, Bomani would be walking out of the radio station, I'd be walking in as an intern.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, man, look at that, man.

[Tate Frazier]

Back in the day.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm bringing y' all back. I didn't even think about the North Carolina of it all.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. Big fan of Bowmani. Bo money.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, man. Yeah, man.

[Van Lathan]

Big shout out to Bo, man.

[Joel Anderson]

Shout out to Bo, man. So. All right, well, anyway, so when I ask you those questions tomorrow, I need to come up with something different, because I don't want to ask you the same thing you've been asked everywhere else.

[Tate Frazier]

All right, I'll. I'll give you a rundown of what EJ man, Daniel asked me, and we'll figure it out. Shout out to him. Florida State quarterback. All right, anything else, guys? Any parting shots? Those are the two big headlines I wanted to hit. Van, Anything from you for the people?

[Van Lathan]

Hell, nah, man. We raised the roof. We back. We got Clark kill off. We got, like, all the lsu, tsu, tcu, Southern.

[Joel Anderson]

We really covered it.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, we went through the Jay Z.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

We up, baby. Jay Z. The whole nine. The high fits the daddy.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, y' all should come on out when we. Because I don't know. I'VE never golfed before. I just think it'll be fun. Y' all should come on out and golf with us.

[Tate Frazier]

Where are you playing golf is my question. I don't know. I haven't heard about this.

[Joel Anderson]

He said that there's some good courses in Maryland. I'm unaware.

[Tate Frazier]

Oh, you're doing this in Maryland? I, I. Now it makes more sense. I thought this was like a la. I was like, hold it up. I'm getting offended right now.

[Joel Anderson]

No, no, bro. No, I mean, I, I, I just. I've never even swung. I haven't swung a club since Putt Putt, man.

[Tate Frazier]

So maybe, maybe just find, like, a local range and just go hit some

[Joel Anderson]

balls, you know, I think that's what we would, you know, something like that. You know, cuz, he's a real friend. He's a real friend. That's right. We had a relationship before for all this other.

[Van Lathan]

You know what T. You know what Tay just said? T just said, take your garbage ass out there.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm not top golf.

[Van Lathan]

Like, like, like T. T just said, man, you trying to actually play golf, you're gonna be holding people up.

[Tate Frazier]

Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I'm not gonna play through behind you. Take your garbage ass off the top. Golf and hits. And by the way, when y'.

[Tate Frazier]

All.

[Van Lathan]

When we do come back, I, I submit right now. Topgolf. Best way to have fun. Hang out with your friends. Topgolf is awesome.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, man.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Never had a bad time. Topgolf in Vegas used this.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. You turn up in Vegas. Yeah, maybe we do that. Maybe we all go to Vegas.

[Joel Anderson]

Is bowling, man. Do y'. All. Do people still do bowling?

[Van Lathan]

You know what?

[Tate Frazier]

I think bowling.

[Van Lathan]

That's a good callback. Yeah, it is, but topgolf is actually better.

[Joel Anderson]

Damn. Okay. That sounds exciting.

[Tate Frazier]

I like bowling, too. You know what I mean? Like, big bowler.

[Joel Anderson]

The big man. My sister, man. My sister and her husband, they're like, serious bowlers. Like, they go around the country and do bowling tournaments.

[Tate Frazier]

They got volleyball.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yeah, bro.

[Tate Frazier]

Oh, yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

They really.

[Tate Frazier]

That's a different level.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. And I just was like, what a cool thing to be in as a couple. Like, to be in two together as a couple, like they do. I was like, you. Their whole book about bowling alone, about how, like, society had become fractured and people were losing connection with each other. Whatever. They did a great documentary on it that I got to judge for the south by Southwest Festival.

[Clark Kellogg]

Oh, very special.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, very special.

[Van Lathan]

Your sister. Your sister and her husband go around bowling, huh?

[Joel Anderson]

They go bowling, bro. And also he was a part of a. I mean, this sounds great. They got like a motorcycle.

[Tate Frazier]

They got their own bowl.

[Joel Anderson]

Like, he did like, he was like a. I'm not. What was the motor, man? What these called, dog? The Rum Runners or some like that? The Rum Runners, dog? No. Is that a restaurant?

[Tate Frazier]

Well, giving Big Lebowski a little bit.

[Joel Anderson]

Yo, but they had like, they had, like, they had.

[Tate Frazier]

Philly said it sounds like a swinging activity. He's saying

[Van Lathan]

it sounds like some Eyes Wide. Shut up.

[Joel Anderson]

See, y' all are nasty, dog. That's the thing. Not that I know.

[Van Lathan]

You know what, though?

[Joel Anderson]

But I don't have any judgment on the lifestyle. That's the way you want to live.

[Tate Frazier]

That's right.

[Joel Anderson]

I don't believe that's what my sister is doing. You know what I'm saying? I don't believe that that's what they're in it for. They're in for the bowling and also the. When he was. The motorcycle. They went all around the country, bro. They. I mean, they would. They'd be like, yo, we're going to be in Washington state at the end of June or some like.

[Tate Frazier]

So they dropped the motorcycling and now they're bowlers.

[Joel Anderson]

They were doing both for a time, but.

[Tate Frazier]

Oh, wow.

[Joel Anderson]

They were doing both way before. Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

Without getting bowling ball on a motorcycle.

[Van Lathan]

Seems my brother in law was like the head dicey.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

No, no, no. My brother. Your brother in law was what? He was. He was the. He was the president of the. Of this club. It's like because it's veterans affiliated or something and. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Follow those. To think that I don't respect the American military. My family.

[Tate Frazier]

No, yeah, we support the military.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, we support the military here. So anyway, so the whole point of that was that. Yeah, man, it just seems like a cool thing to be into, like bowling or golf. I wish I. I need to develop a hobby. Like, don't y' all think. Didn't that look cool? Wouldn't y' all want to develop. Well, take. You play golf. So you're already on that.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, that's my. People ask my vice. It's golf. Yeah.

[Clark Kellogg]

Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

That's all I got.

[Joel Anderson]

That's a fun. That's a fun thing to be able to do.

[Tate Frazier]

But that's like a lot of people that were, like, addicted to heroin, not to make this connection, but a lot of people that were like rockers that were, like, addicted to hero heroin, like, they get into golf, you know, because it's like the same sort of like, Chase, you know? Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

So we might need to end the podcast.

[Joel Anderson]

What does Tiger woods do then?

[Van Lathan]

I knew that was coming. See, I knew that was coming. I knew that. We might as well say we might need to.

[Joel Anderson]

Man, I feel sorry for him, man. I really. I. I really heart goes out to him, and I feel sorry for him.

[Tate Frazier]

Seriously.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

I will say he is my hero. I wore a stanford hat in 2005 to the u. S. Open, and I was like, tigers get to see me. And he's gonna be like, yo, that's my guy right there. He walked.

[Van Lathan]

Really?

[Tate Frazier]

He didn't care, man.

[Joel Anderson]

I didn't know Tiger was your guy, man.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, no, I love Tiger. I mean, how could you not love tiger? Even though I will say, when he went on Oprah back in the day and said he was like, yeah, that. That kind of was wild. That was like. That was a tough moment.

[Joel Anderson]

So, you know, I didn't ever heard of a white person holding that against him before. But I. That's very evolved.

[Tate Frazier]

I just couldn't believe he.

[Joel Anderson]

Black people, a lot of black people never forgiven him for. For that, like.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, I mean, rightfully so.

[Van Lathan]

Straight up. My dad was out.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

And he never back people.

[Joel Anderson]

Never.

[Van Lathan]

My dad was out. He was like, what? He said. I was like, what did he say? He's like. He said he obliging with a conquer or something. But I tell you what he didn't say was. I tell you what he didn't say was. He didn't say he was. No. Yeah, he was out. Never got back in some people. Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

Well, you remember the first Nike commercial that Tiger ever did? It was like, basically like showing like, all the clubs he couldn't play at, you know, and it was like. Yeah, it was like a great commercial. And then, I don't know, I just. I feel like his dad get out of his life. And then some of that stuff changed.

[Joel Anderson]

It's just. Yeah, man. That Wright Thompson profile on him that ran at ESPN when he turned 50.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, right. Thompson, what a man. Yeah, what a guy. What a guy. Wright Thompson, man.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, man, he's great. Great, great writer, great dude. Yeah, man. We just. Yeah, it just. Again, I would. I'm inclined to feel sorry for people. Like, that's kind of orientation to the world. And so, yeah, I was like, damn, man, that's. That seems like that sucks.

[Tate Frazier]

I feel for the human experience also, like, fame is fame. Just as tough to, like, everybody navigating fame is, you know, it's so disorienting a little bit. Yeah. Right. You know, from Judy Garland to Tiger Woods. All these people that had to deal with it.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna ask Van a question and see if he agrees with me. Do you know who one of the most well adjusted, formerly black celebrity, but no longer celebrities is? I think. And you tell me if this sounds great. Jason Weaver. Every time I see him, I'm just like, man, he seems like just totally a piece.

[Van Lathan]

You must have.

[Clark Kellogg]

You.

[Van Lathan]

You must have heard me talking about this.

[Joel Anderson]

I did not. No, I have not. No.

[Van Lathan]

You must have heard me talking about this. I support and protect Jason Weaver with every fiber of my being. Really? Jason Weaver is number one. A consummate professional. Professional. But like Simba the Lion King, young Michael Jackson.

[Tate Frazier]

Smart guy.

[Van Lathan]

Smart guy. Yeah. All of that. The shy and has like Jason. We for Jason Weaver came on Jackson

[Tate Frazier]

too, when he was a kid.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

On Back in the Day. Jason Weaver didn't know that. I knew like cuz Jason Weaver was with Tricky Stewart and the Red Zone, like all. All of that stuff. Like these guys that ended up working with the Dream Tricky and all these guys, you know, these guys. Jason just is. I can't say enough about what an awesome guy Jason Weaver is. And I've been. I do this all the time when people think it's a bit. But you. It's almost like you had to have heard me say that because he is a fantastic dude. Super talented, awesome, nice, amazing guy.

[Joel Anderson]

Yo. To almost kind of bring Roger, you know how we were talking about, like, black, you know, black people know what's going on with Maya. Like, she may be. She may have, you know, faded from Essence America, but you know, disrespecting Maya.

[Tate Frazier]

I'm just saying, I was a kid. I love Maya, you know.

[Joel Anderson]

We understand. You appreciate. I'm gonna give you some Grace Tate. But Jason Weaver, man, like, every time I see his clips, I'm like, man, he just seems like a really nice, well adjusted guy that, like, you know, totally comfortable in his skin, seems to be having a really good life. I. At least I hope he is. So. Yeah. I don't know why it just occurred to me. I was just like, I know Van got to know who know Jason Weaver. So.

[Van Lathan]

That's my guy, bro. Shout out to Jason.

[Joel Anderson]

Jason Weaver.

[Van Lathan]

Always, man.

[Tate Frazier]

Chingy. One Call Away Video.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah, bro. I mean, the way he talked about making that money in perpetuity off of

[Van Lathan]

One Call Away Video.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

Only One Call away.

[Joel Anderson]

He was on you. We see you, dog.

[Tate Frazier]

I remember. Good times.

[Joel Anderson]

I actually had one other thing, but the show seems like it's a little too long, but it was going to be. I want Bruce Pearl to have to talk about the University of Illinois this weekend. That's all. You know what I'm saying? He was being a snake and called it in and tried to get.

[Tate Frazier]

We should have asked Clark about working with Bruce because he's got to do it with Bruce.

[Joel Anderson]

I didn't want to put him in an awkward position, but yeah, yeah, yeah,

[Tate Frazier]

yeah, he would have been.

[Joel Anderson]

That wouldn't have been fair for him.

[Tate Frazier]

But he had a good time, though. I could see it. He was laughing when we were talking about tussling.

[Joel Anderson]

I think, man.

[Clark Kellogg]

I think.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, man. I think Clark liked us, man. I do.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. He said there's only a couple guys he knew on his teams that like to tussle like that. So.

[Joel Anderson]

No, you can read between the lines. No, he got it. He. I gave you grace, man. See what happens. This is the black American experience right here. She reach her hand out, you get slapped away over and over again.

[Van Lathan]

Show you my hand.

[Tate Frazier]

I'm shaking hands. All right. There you have it. Ring your tailgate. What a fun episode. Shout out to Car Kellogg. Shout out to Billy Gill for coming on the show, having some fun with us. Shout out to everybody for hanging out. Shout out to all of our tailgaters. We appreciate everybody tuning in the show. Enjoy the Final Four and we will see you all next Wednesday. Must be 21 or older in president. Select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino are 18 and older and President D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-887-89-7-777 or visit ccpg.orgchatinconnecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org In Maryland, hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE and Y or text HOPE and WHY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.