Welcome to the Offseason: National Signing Day, Deion’s Fines, and Senior Bowl Recap

Summary

Ringer Tailgate – Welcome to the Offseason: National Signing Day, Deion’s Fines, and Senior Bowl Recap

Date: February 4, 2026
Hosts: Van Lathan, Joel Anderson, Tate Frazier

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Episode Overview

In this lively college football off-season kickoff, Van, Joel, and Tate reunite to discuss everything from National Signing Day’s declining importance to Deion Sanders’ headline-making fines, recap standout moments from the Senior Bowl, and veer into sharp, sometimes hilarious, social commentary. Personal stories, memetic banter, and reflections on the ever-changing sport make for a “hangout” episode that still delivers strong analysis.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Off-Season Vibes and the Missing Octavia Spencer

• Intro: The crew begins with playful tall-guy banter and reflects on surviving another college football season.
• Guest Mishap: Academy Award winner Octavia Spencer was poised to join the show to discuss Auburn and her Super Bowl ad for public health awareness. Technical issues nixed the segment, which becomes comedic fodder—most notably with Van blaming producer Freez(e), who can’t defend himself.
  • Quote (Van, 04:10): "I don't want to say any names, okay? ...but this is largely Freez's fault."
• Behind the Scenes: They briefly discuss failed interviews and the producer’s role, turning it into a running joke about loyalty and sabotage.

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2. Can College Football Films Ever Win an Oscar?

• The crew ponders the absence of college football movies among Oscar winners, riffing on narrative possibilities and earlier films like The Blind Side and Remember the Titans.
• Van’s Pitch: M. Night Shyamalan-style crossover scripts—sequels to both The Blind Side and his own Substack project.
  • Quote (Van, 10:19): "It's both One Battle After Another 2 and The Blind Side 2...just like the movie Split."
• Joel’s Take: Suggests America’s lack of appetite for racial or social justice-based sports stories nowadays; cites the difficulty in recreating organic drama typical in boxing films but harder in football.

Timestamps:

• College Football Movies: 09:16 – 15:22
• Actor-athlete discourse (with “White Men Can’t Jump” side-story): 16:19 – 20:14

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3. The Changing Face of National Signing Day

• Key Theme: The excitement and pageantry of traditional National Signing Day have faded, supplanted by the Transfer Portal and early signing period.
• Joel's Take (22:00 – 28:10): Today’s Signing Day “doesn’t register” anymore—ESPN barely covers it live. The thrill of surprise commitments and hat ceremonies is replaced by more transactional portal movement. Even top recruiting wins (like Houston’s grab of #1 recruit Kashan Henderson) just don’t resonate as before.
  • Quote (Joel, 23:40): "I’m not sure that's the first time the Cougs have signed the top-ranked recruit in the country, but it just feels like none of that registers right now."
• Van & Tate: Discuss the legitimacy and oddity of upstart sports-centric schools, and how smaller rosters (like Oak Hill’s) differ from today's charter “academies.”
• Data Highlights:
  • 2026’s top high school recruit: Kashan Henderson (to Houston).
  • Early Signing Day is now the “main event.”
  • Transfer portal class rankings are now as important as high school class rankings.

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4. Deion Sanders’ Fines: Old School Discipline or Power Play?

• Segment Start: 33:39
• Controversy: Deion announces plans to fine Colorado players for tardiness or missing workouts, sparking debate about player treatment in the NIL (Name, Image & Likeness) era.
• Joel's View (37:11): Strongly opposes fining unpaid or semi-paid college players, seeing it as grandstanding and disrespectful of the coach’s true role. Compares it to former coach Billy Napier compelling player “donations” to UL-Lafayette.
  • Quote (Joel, 38:37): "You shouldn't need to fine your kids to get them to show up on time..."
• Van's Perspective: Draws parallels to the workplace ("anywhere you're getting paid, you're expected to show up and show up on time") but cautions the lack of actual labor rights/collective bargaining in NCAA sports makes it problematic.
• Tate’s Take: Sees Deion as opportunistically reframing focus away from on-field results: “He's making it a professional environment. And then we're having a different conversation when I think a lot of people would probably want to talk about the football not living up to the hype."

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5. Senior Bowl Highlights & NFL Prospect Chatter

• Segment Start: 47:51
• Van: Highlighted LSU’s Garrett Nussmeier as a standout, enjoying seeing him healthy and performing well at practices and in the game.
• Joel: Fascinated by Diego Pavia’s (Vanderbilt) measurements (sub-5’10”, shorter than Bryce Young), calling him one of the best college football stories ever, but doubting his NFL draft chances. Spotlights Tyrone Montgomery (John Carroll U), a Division III WR and former LSU walk-on, who “lit up” scouts at the Bowl.
  • Quote (Joel, 51:00): "Like he's going to be—yeah—great story, man. So I was excited to see kids like that."
• Tate: Calls out Jaydn Ott’s unexpected emergence and run-game performance at the Bowl; nod to offensive coordinator Ben Arbuckle’s playcalling at Washington State and Oklahoma.

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6. Lane Kiffin's Deleted Trump Tweet: When Sports and Politics Collide

• Big Van on Campus: Lane Kiffin’s MAGA-leaning tweet (and hasty deletion) launches a deep conversation about the responsibilities of coaches in political discourse, especially in racially charged times.
  • Quote (Van, 61:17): "Tweets like that make me wonder whether or not Lane Kiffin is fucking stupid."
• Joel: Recalls that when college athletes organize boycotts (as at Mizzou), they can profoundly affect institutions, yet are often discouraged from leveraging their power. Wishes athletes would collectively refuse to play for coaches out of touch with their realities.
  • Quote (Joel, 65:13): "I get mad at a dumb ass like Lane Kiffin who has no respect for his kids or their parents, or with the communities what these kids are going through."
• Van: Reflects that, for all the talk of athlete activism, most players in every era have prioritized opportunity over politics. Even race-conscious recruiting (like Kellen Winslow Sr.’s preference for black coaches) has always made people uncomfortable in the broader system.

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7. Super Bowl Week Banter & Closing Thoughts

• Van: Needs the Seahawks to win—"I can't do it. I can't. The Patriots... the effect on my life, the culture of this company would be too great." (77:53)
• Tate: Notes North Carolina could join the short list of schools with both a president and a Super Bowl-winning QB.
• Joel: Observes that Belichick’s post-Brady struggles are “just kind of funny” for the NFL narrative.
• Octavia Spencer Returns: The crew promises to get her back on the show after the failed attempt.

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Notable Quotes

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | | -----------| -------------- | ----- | | 04:10 | Van Lathan | "I don't want to say any names... but this is largely Freez's fault." | | 10:19 | Van Lathan | "It's both One Battle After Another 2 and The Blind Side 2...just like the movie Split." | | 23:40 | Joel Anderson | "I'm not sure that's the first time the Cougs have signed the top-ranked recruit in the country, but it just feels like none of that registers right now." | | 38:37 | Joel Anderson | "You shouldn't need to fine your kids to get them to show up on time..." | | 51:00 | Joel Anderson | "Like he's going to be—yeah—great story, man. So I was excited to see kids like that." | | 61:17 | Van Lathan | "Tweets like that make me wonder whether or not Lane Kiffin is fucking stupid." | | 65:13 | Joel Anderson | "I get mad at a dumb ass like Lane Kiffin who has no respect for his kids or their parents, or with the communities what these kids are going through." |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 09:16 – 15:22: College Football Movies Discourse
• 22:00 – 28:10: Decline of National Signing Day and Transfer Portal Rise
• 33:39 – 47:06: Deion Sanders’ Fines and NIL Era Coach-Player Dynamics
• 47:51 – 54:14: Senior Bowl Standouts and NFL Prospects
• 59:52 – 76:16: Lane Kiffin's Tweet, Athlete Activism, and Coach Responsibility
• 77:53 – End: Super Bowl Predictions and Final Banter

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Tone & Style Highlights

• Free-flowing, playful banter between the hosts, but with sharp and thoughtful asides on social, racial, and economic issues within college sports.
• Wry, self-aware commentary on sports media, football culture, and even their own production missteps.
• Mix of smart analysis and “just the right amount of chaos”—true to the show’s brand.

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For New Listeners

This episode embodies Ringer Tailgate’s blend of pointed college football analysis, irreverent humor, and a willingness to challenge the sport’s off-field narratives. If you missed the episode, this summary delivers the wit, insight, and lively debates that make the show a standout in the off-season sports landscape.

Transcript

[Joel Anderson]

Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry.

[Van Lathan]

That I wouldn't get my new contacts.

[Joel Anderson]

In time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, sorry.

[Joel Anderson]

I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.

[Van Lathan]

1-800-Contacts.

[Joel Anderson]

Where's your playlist taking you?

[Tate Frazier]

Down the highway to the mountains or just into daydream mode while you're stuck in Traffic?

[Joel Anderson]

With over 4,000 hotels worldwide, Best Western is there to help you make the.

[Tate Frazier]

Most of your getaway, wherever that is.

[Joel Anderson]

Because the only thing better than a great playlist is a great trip.

[Van Lathan]

Life's the trip.

[Joel Anderson]

Make the most of it at Best.

[Tate Frazier]

Western, book direct and [e-mail]. Welcome back to Ringer Tailgate, the off season edition. We are officially in the off season. Hope everybody is having a happy February. It is super bowl week, and we got a lot to get to on the show. But first and foremost, let's say what's up to our guys. Van Lathan in studio in the bucket. What's up, fan?

[Van Lathan]

What's going on, guys? We back. 71 is not tall enough.

[Joel Anderson]

Man. I just. I don't understand why David Robinson was 7:1.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, but he didn't get the.

[Van Lathan]

David Robinson was 7:1, moving like a 3.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

He didn't get the respect of being like you, the tallest guy in the world type shit. That's not what he was respected for. When you look at Wilt Chamberlain, Wilt Chamberlain was respected like this freak, which I guess he was for the time, but when I look him up and he was 7:1, I was expecting like 7:3 or 7:4.

[Joel Anderson]

Damn. Nah, man, just 7:1.

[Tate Frazier]

It's the off season to get people up to speed. We were talking about Wilt Chamberlain being 7:1. I think we all thought he was a little bit taller. So, you know, that got us into the nice conversation there. Joel Anderson. Joel, good to see you, man. How you doing in the offseason?

[Joel Anderson]

I'm great, man. I was. I was looking up people taller than 7 1. Chuck Nevitt. Y' all remember Chuck? Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

No, that's a good one. I don't know why I got Dwight Snitziest, Ralph Sampson, respectable height. How tall is he?

[Joel Anderson]

Seven, three, seven four. No, seven four.

[Tate Frazier]

Seven four. Okay.

[Van Lathan]

That. That wimby Wimby. How tall is Zach eating?

[Joel Anderson]

7 4. He's 74. See? Yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

See, like, this is what I'm talking about.

[Joel Anderson]

Real freak.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, like real, real Joe.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm just saying that's real.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, Joe's a stallion over there. Real freak.

[Tate Frazier]

Oh, it's good to be back. It's good to be talking to you guys and Joel. We survived. Joel was very worried about us making it to the off season. He thought that once we wrapped up our award show, we might not be back. But we're here, we're back, and we're.

[Joel Anderson]

Going week to week, man.

[Tate Frazier]

Going week to week. Week to week. We actually had a very special guest that was supposed to be on the show. I guess we should address this at the top. Super bowl week. We have a lot of boots on the ground. Ringer people up there. Shout out to our producer, Billy Gill, who's up in San Francisco. He got us a great interview with Academy Award winner Octavia Spencer, who's from Montgomery, Alabama. She went to Auburn. She's a die hard Auburn tiger. We're going to have Octavia on the show. She was going to break down her thoughts on Auburn football. We were very excited about it and then we had some technical difficulties. So we want to apologize. Off the top, she was going to come on the show, share some insights. What was the. I got the talking points here that she was going to hit for us, but your thoughts on Octavia. We're gonna have her back on the show. Van, this was very heartbreaking for us as a show.

[Van Lathan]

It was. It was embarrassing. You know, she's coming back.

[Tate Frazier]

No, she's coming back. We're reaching out. Allison says she's. We're gonna reach out to her.

[Van Lathan]

We'll reach out to her, get her back on the show. I don't want to say any names, okay? I don't. I really don't want to say any names. But this is largely free as his fault. If you're looking at it and you want a scapegoat, this is largely free as his fault. The Duke is not here today, as I understand. Right.

[Tate Frazier]

He's. Yeah, he's doing.

[Joel Anderson]

He don't give a shit about us. This is how low on our list of priorities he is. I. We haven't talked to him. He hasn't texted us or nothing.

[Van Lathan]

Today he texted us about other guests, which we're not so sure we should do because we have no clue about whether or not we will be able.

[Tate Frazier]

We have no Internet.

[Van Lathan]

We have whether or not the Internet will work, so. But Freeze, who is legitimately one of the best producers I've ever worked with, he dropped the ball.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, Freeze, man. So that's called. I gotta step in.

[Van Lathan]

If you want to jump in and defend yourself in any way, shape or form, Free is.

[Joel Anderson]

That's. That's not fair to free us, man. That's not fair to free us.

[Van Lathan]

I'm gonna take that as an admission that the things that I'm saying. Okay.

[Joel Anderson]

I don't think that's okay. It's Freeze. Free as. Freeze doesn't talk, man. He doesn't come online. That's not his job. You know, he's just working. He's just working, man. Freestyle. See, Freeze. See, this is what I'm talking about. Do you know, when I was in LA and I came back to the office with my suit and Free is like, hey, man, there's a nice bathroom right around the corner from here that you can change in and whatever. And it's like a private or whatever. And I'm just thinking, oh, yeah, Freeze is like, you know, my dude, he helped me out, you know, gave me a nice clean bathroom that nobody else had used. So I felt comfortable being in there on my sock feet, you know, and. But then I'm. I'm seeing that Freeze was like, obviously in cahoots with you guys. And then I'm the only. Only one right here defending his honor while Van's calling him out. Nobody. People don't know who Free Us is outside to listen to our show, and you up there defaming him in front of people, man. It's a tough job market out here, but we free it, you know? Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I'm just saying what I'm doing is, what I'm attempting to do is on the show, make sure audience understands that, you know, we have a show to do. Yeah, we have things on the show that we have to get done. And we were sitting, talking to Academy Award winner Octavia Spencer.

[Tate Frazier]

She was very excited to come on the show.

[Van Lathan]

Super excited. She talked about Auburn, she talked about Alabama. She talked about being a sports fan. She about talked. Talked about it in something that was very close to her heart. Yeah, right. Which is. She's doing a Super bowl commercial for, I guess was an initiative, Behringer's Detect.

[Tate Frazier]

Sos. So basically to go check on your heart, check on your kidneys. She wants you to go get a test to make sure that everything's up and, you know, up to speed. So she's doing an ad, I believe I can't remember who she's. But she's the. She's going around super bowl and promoting all this. So she's just doing it for the good of public health. So we wanted to give her some love on the show.

[Van Lathan]

And I want to say something before we move on. There was a part in this interview where I talked about the fact that I come from Louisiana. It's a place where people need to check up on their health. It's not in healthy state. And me and Octavia were going back and forth, and I heard somebody go. I was like, what? Hudson Bag Oak?

[Tate Frazier]

Someone's laughing.

[Van Lathan]

Like, laughing. It was freeze. As I was talking about that. Somebody sniffing and snorted, like, laughing at.

[Joel Anderson]

The fact that her and I were.

[Van Lathan]

Having this heart to heart. It was freest. So I'm not so sure what happened was even an accident is what I'm saying.

[Tate Frazier]

Okay, so there's something happening.

[Joel Anderson]

Racial health disparities were funny. The freest.

[Van Lathan]

As soon as I said, you know, there's a lot of black people down there. That's need to work on that. I thought it was Tate because of that.

[Joel Anderson]

No. Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

Could be me.

[Joel Anderson]

It's really silly.

[Van Lathan]

Who knows?

[Joel Anderson]

Could have been, man. Billy was nowhere to be found, bro.

[Tate Frazier]

Apparently he was right next to Octavia Spencer. By the way, he did text me afterwards.

[Van Lathan]

Is that true?

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, he said he was right there. He watched all the technical difficulties and so maybe it was him did nothing, you know, laughing about it. But yeah, she's got a Super bowl ad. Sofia Vergara is who the ad is with. I was trying to remember who the ad is. So, yeah, they're both promoting public health. Shout out to Octavia Spencer. I did want to ask her because obviously she's won an Academy Award. Van you as well. So you can obviously give us some insights here. How do we get a college football movie to win an Academy Award? We had the Blind side, which turned out to be a little, you know, let's say it was based on a true story, but the truth of the story was a little bit off. But that was 2009. It's been a long time, you know, 16 years. Right. Since we've had a film that's been up. Rudy, I guess, was up for consideration back in 1993. We are. Marshall was up for consideration. They didn't get any nominations, but they were up for. I was looking at what was up for consideration. The Express, I think, was in 2007, was up for consideration. How do we make a college football movie for the Academy Awards?

[Van Lathan]

Fan.

[Tate Frazier]

That's what I'm asking.

[Van Lathan]

I got the perfect movie, man.

[Tate Frazier]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

And I've been writing on Substack, you guys. About the Substack.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, man, I've been reading it.

[Van Lathan]

Thank you very much. Pretty good. Decent. Okay. Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

Good stuff, man. I tune in. Yeah, I'll be looking for it.

[Van Lathan]

You guys have to read the sus. The sub stack Sunday morning, which you probably won't because it's a Super Bowl. But even maybe the next day. Maybe I should put it up Saturday to try to get the. To beat the Super Bowl.

[Tate Frazier]

That's what industry's doing. They're putting the episode out on Friday, you know, fight the super bowl traffic.

[Van Lathan]

So I might do that. I might finish it up and put it out on Saturday so people get a chance to read it before the super bowl or whatever. But this is a pitch.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh.

[Van Lathan]

For my sequel to One Battle After Another. Oh, it's called One Battle. I don't even want to tell you guys what it is. I want you guys to read it. But it's The Blind side 2. It's a mashup between One Battle After Another and the Blind side.

[Joel Anderson]

Huh.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. They put the movies together. All right. It's both One Battle After Another two. And the Blind side two. Just like the movie Split, Okay. Last movie that came out is both a sequel to Split, Okay. And it's a sequel to Unbreakable. Following Me. That's. I'm pitching it on the Substack.

[Tate Frazier]

Little Shyamalan twist there from Van. I like that. So you've come up with the Blind side too.

[Van Lathan]

What you come up with? And One Battle After Another Two.

[Joel Anderson]

You got a lot of movies in production with in the Water. What was that? One of them was that.

[Van Lathan]

Whoa.

[Joel Anderson]

Wow. That's a movie, right?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. In the Ocean.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Another movie was done.

[Tate Frazier]

Joel, any thoughts? Any. Any pitches for you? Any stories in college football that can be turned into an Academy Award winning film?

[Van Lathan]

That's.

[Tate Frazier]

That's really what I was asking, you know?

[Joel Anderson]

Well, I mean, it kind of depends, right? Because you remember when they did Glory Road, right. And they turned that into a movie. Yeah, you. So they could probably do something like that. And, you know, I mean, I guess they already kind of did that with Remember the Titans, but there's a. There's a way that you could do a. A little twist on a story like that, you know, But I don't think.

[Tate Frazier]

I should have been nominated for Remember the Titans.

[Joel Anderson]

But to be honest, I don't think people. I don't think I don't think the audiences and the produce, the production companies make those kind of. I don't know if that's in favor in America anymore right now. I don't know if people want to see anything about that. So it could be about black people, about racism and shit? Yeah, man. I don't know if people want. Want to see that no more.

[Van Lathan]

I think you would make. Remember the Titans now, But it would be from the purview of Coach Yost. It'll be called, like, the Titans. Yeah, like leaving on Fox Nation.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, man.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, my God, bro. What. What's. What was Bertina's friend's name?

[Tate Frazier]

God, I can't remember. Randy or something like that.

[Van Lathan]

Whatever. Randy is the main character. And, like, it's about this marauding group of crosstown thugs that try to take over the school.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, man.

[Van Lathan]

Ramsay trying to stop it. That's the whole thing. That's. That's the story.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, man. You could do something on South Lake. So people that don't have not heard of South Lake is a suburb in Texas, and they've had a crazy deal because the school board there is. I mean, basically run off any hints of progressivism. They. They don't teach black history, none of that. But they've had a great football program year after year after year. Like, I'm trying to think of some Quinn ers played it in South Lake. Carol. Yeah, yeah, they. They had.

[Tate Frazier]

His name was Ray, by the way, that. Give me the name of the movie.

[Joel Anderson]

Ray Ray.

[Van Lathan]

Ray was the one.

[Joel Anderson]

So maybe it'll be, like, about a school that is, like, man, all this, like, integration, all these schools relying on black athletes. We don't need to do that. Look, we just get. We'll move out a little further outside of Fort Worth of Dallas, start up a suburb, start our own school district, and we don't. We're going to prove to the world that we don't need black people to be good at football. And that would be, like, you know what I'm saying? I could see people rallying around that. You could do something like that on Fox Nation as well.

[Tate Frazier]

But, you know, it could be like, the Junction Boys, but like, some sort of, like, modern twist on it or something, you know?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. I mean, one. No black people in Junction Boys, that's for sure.

[Tate Frazier]

There you go.

[Joel Anderson]

You know?

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. Maybe that's the pitch. Junction Boys.

[Joel Anderson]

Junction Boys, too. Mm.

[Tate Frazier]

Starring Randy Quaid. You know.

[Van Lathan]

I like that type of shit. I'm gonna be honest with y'.

[Joel Anderson]

All.

[Van Lathan]

I saw the Sound of Free I watched that shit.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Wait, the sound of what?

[Van Lathan]

Like sometimes I would get into movies, you know, random movies that like Kirk Cameron was in. Oh, anytime Kirk Cameron is in the movie, you know what's up. Oh, bro, Mike Sebra not playing with y'. All. He's sick of y' all heathen bullshit. So I will see Kirk Cameron in the movie and I watch it and. Yeah. Have you ever seen Left Behind, Tribulation Force?

[Tate Frazier]

I've seen the first Left behind at youth group when I was like in seventh grade and I was like, yeah, this is crazy.

[Van Lathan]

It's kind of scary. They used to make us watch those movies, the Omega Code, like all of that stuff. The was kind of scary. He was watching the movies anyway. But what it is, what it is, shout out to all different types of movies and y' all can have whatever political beliefs y' all want.

[Tate Frazier]

Everybody, everybody find your lane. You know, I do think there is a, there is a space out there though for like a football, college football story that could be turned into an Academy Award winning film. I think Octavia Spencer could be in such a film. She understands what's happening, you know, in college football, being from Alabama. So I don't know, I was going to throw that out to her.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, blue chips too. Blue chips too. You know, something like that with the Nil joint.

[Tate Frazier]

The program, remember that movie?

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, the program was so great.

[Van Lathan]

The problem is that like a lot of the football movies, I think that any given Sunday was going for an elevated look into the brutality and the sophistication of professional football.

[Tate Frazier]

Willie Beeman.

[Van Lathan]

Willie Beeman. I think one thing that the Blind side has going for it is that the movie doesn't have a lot of football in it.

[Tate Frazier]

Well, that's what it kind of has to be.

[Van Lathan]

I think it's hard for the academy to take movies about sports and stuff like that seriously when there's a ton of sports in them. Boxing is different because it's such a dramatic sport. It's mano emano, man against man. They're in there. You can really tell a dramatic story through what's happening in the ring. It's a lot difficult, a lot more difficult to do that, like with a lot of team sports.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

And it's also hard to get actors to look fluid playing those sports and look, you know, the right part and all that sort of stuff. And that's why like Air was perfect because they never showed Michael Jordan play basketball. It's all about the business behind it. His mom, all that Sort of stuff, you know, so.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, man, basketball movies are horrible, man. Like, it's just really hard. It's. I mean, like, the best. The best. The best acting. Hooper is what, Dwayne Martin, Is that right? That's probably it.

[Van Lathan]

He a basketball player first. He nice, though?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, he's nice. That's what I'm saying. Is there anybody.

[Tate Frazier]

I mean, winning, Winning time. They did a pretty good job.

[Joel Anderson]

Mahershala Ali, you know what I'm saying?

[Van Lathan]

He.

[Joel Anderson]

He actually bald, like, for real. But I haven't seen him hoop in a movie, though.

[Tate Frazier]

He played at St. Mary's pretty. Pretty good school.

[Joel Anderson]

Good school. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, like, I mean, look, man, Omar Epps is a legend. Love him in Juice, you know what I'm saying? Higher learning. Loved him in that. Like a great actor, but, man, his acting, playing basketball, loving basketball, man. I was like, ain't no way that dude ever made it to play for the Lakers, bro. You know, you just, just. It just was not. I could not suspend the disbelief, you know.

[Tate Frazier]

Well, they said Wesley Snipes didn't really even play basketball.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, he was bad, too. He was. Yeah. That's a good.

[Van Lathan]

He was able to swag his way through it, though. Yeah, he was. He was a good athlete. But I remember my sister and my mom went to see White Man Can't Jump, and so my sister and my mom went to see White Man Can't Jump, and they love the movie, right? Cindy D. I remember two things when, when they, when they came back. See the. See the movie. Two things. Number one, my sister goes, woolly Harrelson is better than Wesley Snipes in the movie.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

My brain couldn't comprehend that.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Like, my brain as a kid, like, I could not comprehend that. There's like, there's no way that that's possible. It's like, I look at Wesley Snipes and what he was doing, he goes, no, if you watch the movie, like, Woody Harrelson is better than Wesley Snipes in the movie. And that's actually when you watch the film. I think that's part of the plot that Billy is slightly better than Sidney is. Right? I think that's part of the plot. And then another part is my dad got mad at white Men Can't Jump. Because there's a part in the movie where I guess Woody Harrelson comes back to the hotel that he's in with the almost flawless Rosie Perez.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Comes back to the hotel and he's in like a pair of white biker Shorts. And my father felt like his bulge was too prominent.

[Tate Frazier]

They got him packing. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And so my dad goes, this is why your mama and your sister like this movie so much, because they got an X rated part in this movie. And I was like, what are you talking about? And he was like, my father got. When something stuck in his mind, he would get like super, like, obsessed on. He's like, it's an X rated part in this movie. X rated? This movie. It should be X. And he goes, crystal, Crystal, I know you're here looking at this man dick. That's why you like the movie. And I was like, tripping. He cut the movie off. I wanted to finish it because I didn't go to the theater to see it. This was way after the movie had come out. I was watching it for the first time. It come out on the. On the thing I'm looking at. I'm like, we can't finish watching it. And then he made me miss the real part of that scene, which was, I mean, Rosie.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, it was Rosie, man.

[Van Lathan]

Because of his jealousy.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

I think Ron Shelton was trying to make it make sense why Rosie Perez was there. You know, I think that was the implication.

[Joel Anderson]

You didn't think about that? I didn't even know that his dick played such a prominent role in the movie.

[Van Lathan]

It didn't to me. Yeah, I don't. It didn't to me. But to Pops at that point, like, he couldn't get over it. He was like. His mom and Ebony had told me, told us how good the movie was, but they went to see it in the theater. I didn't go see it in the theater. I was watching at the crib with dad. Dad says because the movie had an X rated part.

[Joel Anderson]

Damn.

[Tate Frazier]

Who would have thought that white men can't jump X rated? But there we are.

[Joel Anderson]

Hopefully.

[Tate Frazier]

You know, if you have any submissions for us, tweeted us, reach out to us in the comments. Maybe some stories in college football that could become an Oscar winning film. And maybe we'll, you know, write something there, Van. Maybe we'll put something together, make an Oscar worthy film and pitch it to Octavia Spencer.

[Joel Anderson]

That's the, you know, team up, man. Yeah, I'm trying to. I'm trying to get into that too.

[Van Lathan]

Are y' all familiar with Generica Owens? She's a. She's a sports reporter. You're not familiar with her? No.

[Joel Anderson]

Somebody sent me a text about that.

[Van Lathan]

So I don't think she's the best sports reporter in the business.

[Joel Anderson]

Somebody sent me a Text about Generica Owens. Who does Generica work for?

[Van Lathan]

I'm not sure, but it. It. I just. I mean, a lot. Very, very talented.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay. 80, 84, 000 followers on Twitter, sports reporter and digital media. Doesn't say exactly for who, but. All right.

[Van Lathan]

When I see her interviewing Jalen Hurts, I thought it was a fantastic interview.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay, man, you got a fan out here.

[Tate Frazier]

I actually saw that clip. I didn't. I didn't put two and two together. Yeah, Jalen Hurts. That was a nice interview.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay. Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

Shout out. Should we get into the off season? Should we talk about what's happening in college football? Technically, there is no off season. That's at least what the people, the coaches in these programs. A lot of stuff going on, so I wanted to get into it. One big reaction. If there's any news, notes, figures, facts, whatever it is that has stuck out to you, Joe, I'll go to you first. One big reaction so far in the off season. I know it's right now.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, I did not expect that stood out to you. Anyway, so for people that are listening, they catch this tomorrow morning. We're recording on Wednesday. Okay. So today is national signing day. All right.

[Tate Frazier]

Is that crazy how understated it is?

[Joel Anderson]

Well, that's. Why. Did you know. Do you guys know who the top rated high school recruit in the country is according to 2, 4, 7.

[Van Lathan]

Hold on, let me guess. QB.

[Joel Anderson]

It is a QB is this the.

[Van Lathan]

Kid that ended up going to Vanderbilt?

[Joel Anderson]

No.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Joel Anderson]

He's number two. Allegedly.

[Van Lathan]

He's number two.

[Joel Anderson]

He's number two.

[Van Lathan]

The number one is a Q. B.

[Joel Anderson]

He.

[Van Lathan]

I don't know. It is.

[Joel Anderson]

All right. Kashan Henderson, he went to. And this is a school I'd never heard of before. Legacy, the School of Sports Sciences. But he's going.

[Van Lathan]

What's the name of the school?

[Joel Anderson]

Legacy, The School of Sports Science, bro.

[Van Lathan]

We gotta stop with these fake ass. I'm sorry.

[Joel Anderson]

You used to play against, like, Jefferson High School, Southwest, you know, bro, yeah, Columbia High School.

[Van Lathan]

We played like every. Every school, every city in the south had a Robert E. Lehigh. You play against them?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Or.

[Van Lathan]

Or a school that had like a. A weird description of a tree. Wildwood wood lawn. Yeah, you know, something like that. But like, Legacy, the School of what, bro?

[Joel Anderson]

Sports Sciences, man. Oh, it's like. It's just like these charter schools are like, you know, the Academy of Excellence and. And dedication, you know, all that kind. I was like, man, play. No, that's not a real school, man. Like, we're supposed to get you're supposed to go to like Southwest Houston High School or some like that, Sharpstown, whatever. But anyway, this kid is Kashan Henderson. He went to Legacy. The School of Sports Sciences was just outside Houston, and he's going to the University of Houston.

[Tate Frazier]

Okay, Willie Fritz.

[Joel Anderson]

Willie Fritz. I'm not sure about it. I'm almost certain that's the first time the Cougs have signed the top ranked recruit in the country. But it just feels like none of that registers right now. Like, there was a time on national signing Day, you could turn to ESPN or at least espn too, and they have some live coverage of the signing ceremonies and there'd be like a big national look at the top classes in the country today. There was none of that. All I saw was Pat McAfee broadcasting from radio Row. And I'm just like, if anything, like, for it, I'm an old person. So it kind of bothers me that, like, it doesn't matter like it used to, but if anything, it just signals how important the transfer portal is and building a roster now. And it makes sense. You got these guys that are proven commodities, grown men who know how to go to practice and just keep football the main thing. But I just, I don't know, man. I mean, Nick Saban built Alabama through recruiting. Kirby Smart built Georgia by turbocharging recruiting. You know, that is. I kind of like that. I remember like the fax machine of it. All the signing day conferences are reading.

[Tate Frazier]

Your paper, putting the hat on, pageantry.

[Joel Anderson]

Having a little puppy, you know, pulling out a puppy to say that you.

[Tate Frazier]

Go into the or. Keith Marshall had the Bulldog when he went to Georgia.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, I think Isaiah Crowell, when he.

[Tate Frazier]

Went to Georgia, he made Isaiah Crowell. That's who it was.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, it was. Remember when Travis Henry went to Jackson State? Like, it was a big deal. And I just feel like if something like that happened now, which is not too far off from Kishan Henderson going to Houston, that it, it signaled something, that a school had arrived. But today it only really matter like that.

[Tate Frazier]

And also it feels like you're going to get poached by another school, even if you go to Houston. You know what I mean? That's the problem. It's like it's not a couple of things.

[Van Lathan]

Number one, I do think that the early signing period has taken over a little bit, right? The early signing period. A lot of the players that are waiting right now to sign a little bit later on in the process, some of them are the very best players in the country, but a lot of them are guys who are committed, decommitted, want to make schools wade and sweat a little bit. The early signing period is something that I think there's almost, maybe more focus on now.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, that's the big signing day now.

[Van Lathan]

That's the big signing day now. Now, when you look at everything that's going on in the football world this week, there would just almost be no way that the football fan could really be locked in on national signing day if it's during super bowl week. Like, that's, you know, it's tough. So everything is kind of overlapping.

[Joel Anderson]

You don't think. I said that's another thing. I kind of feel like super bowl, we can't run. Maybe that's because I'm out here on the east coast or something or. I feel like it hasn't rung out. I feel like this is.

[Van Lathan]

I agree, I agree. Yeah, I agree with that too, though. But still, though it's still going to dominate a lot of the consciousness of football fans. But super bowl week, to me, like, media day was yesterday, right? Like, yes. Ascension of Generica. I think that there's not a lot of stories out there to really be discussed. I'll tell you something else. This legacy to School of Sports Sciences has to be stopped up, bro. They got 487 people that go to this school. Yeah, 487.

[Tate Frazier]

Now we in the whole school, during.

[Van Lathan]

Our time, there were schools like that. Oak Hill was like that, remember?

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Oak Hill would have like, what, 36, 36 that went to the school.

[Joel Anderson]

It was all there, all of them.

[Van Lathan]

It's like basically two school rooms and all of that stuff like that. But I don't, I don't like these types of schools. Athletic administration, coaching, sports media, marketing, sports medicine is really just for athletes and for people to be focused on, on sports. I don't, I don't, I don't like it. But I think it's interesting to talk about how things are changing, Joe, but this is surprising take coming from you because you're normally not a traditionalist when it comes to the structures of college football and the expectations of it stuff.

[Joel Anderson]

Well, because it was a big day in college football. Like, I feel like we've lost by having an early signing day in the portal. Like, there is no big, whew, let's take a look at everybody's off season acquisitions now thing. Right? And it was a way to, like, get fans excited, you know, if you, if. I mean, the University of Houston signed the number one recruit, man that usually would be like a huge deal and you. There'd be stories all coming out there like, man, how did Willie Fritz do it? How does he pull in this top recruit? Well, I mean, he used Michael Bishop, who was like, who was that kid's quarterback coach there at that high school, brought in Michael Bishop as an assistant. And that kid went to University of Houston. So that certainly helped.

[Tate Frazier]

A little old school. I like that.

[Van Lathan]

That's not old school.

[Joel Anderson]

That is a very old school thing. Yeah, man. Look, man, Reggie Bush.

[Van Lathan]

Remember Reggie Bush and was the kid from John Curtis. Oh, man, Joe McKnight.

[Joel Anderson]

Joe. Man, I saw Joe McKnight play in high school, bro. Oh, my God, bro. He had se. I saw him play high school.

[Tate Frazier]

He was even good on the jets for like a second, you know, he.

[Joel Anderson]

Had seven touches in a game and had four touchdowns in that game. It was. It was crazy. Anyway, he was really good, man.

[Tate Frazier]

Here's the top five you mentioned. Henderson, who's number one, going to Houston. Jared Curtis, who got flipped from Georgia to Vanderbilt. That was a big pavia point that that was pointed out. FAI Brandon from Grimsley High School in Greensboro, North Carolina, going to Tennessee, shout out to him. Grimsley, really good school in North Carolina. Lamar Brown, lsu, who Lane Kiffin hung.

[Van Lathan]

Out with, number three, number one athlete.

[Tate Frazier]

In the country, number one athlete in the country, number four overall. And Kenya Pepe, who is an offensive lineman from img, going to usc. So pretty standard top five there, you.

[Van Lathan]

Know, for the most part, is an interesting case there. He is a guy who can play both on the O line and on the D line.

[Tate Frazier]

He looks like a D lineman to me right now.

[Van Lathan]

A little bit of a tweener in as far as, like, his measurables. Right. I think he's only about 280 right now. If he's going to play on the O line, we'll see how they use him. But as far as the. The athlete position, he was the number one in the country. So let me show that you guys know that.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, well, y' all got that. That's what's up, man. I mean, so are you excited about, like, that's the thing. You don't really care about the recruiting class, though, because it's like you got your transfer portal class.

[Van Lathan]

No, I definitely care about the recruiting. Recruiting class, to me, because the recruiting class, to me, is very important for the sustainability of the school, particularly a school like LSU that needs to get, in my opinion, to be a year in, year out contender is to make sure that they're competitive and getting a lot of the talent from inside of the state. So the transfer portal, you know, if you can do that and you can gain the transfer portal, you're always going to have a chance in any given given year to hit on your transfers and then they have a great season. But if you're from a football rich state, high school recruiting is going to be paramount because you need to be able to build the recruiting pipelines inside of your state, have the people inside your state that can take advantage of stuff like that to make sure that year in and year out that you get the kids that are right there in your backyard. Which is why, you know, it was not fantastic to lose Frank Wilson.

[Tate Frazier]

Well, they got two top 10 recruits. They got Richard Anderson, who's number eight, D Lineman, also from New Orleans, another Louisiana kid. So, I mean, two of the top 10 going to LSU. The only other school in the top 10 that has two guys is USC. That's Luke Waffle, who's number seven as well, who's going to USC, and then Pepe, as I said, who's number five. So USC, LSU, those are the two schools.

[Joel Anderson]

Tate, let's just go ahead and admit it, man. Let's just talk about it right now. Let's get it out of the way. It's over for Bill Belichick, right?

[Van Lathan]

This is.

[Joel Anderson]

He's got. How far do I have to.

[Van Lathan]

He got.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay, the. The top rated recruit for the University of North Carolina, the 115th ranked recruit, Travis Burgess. And if I recall correctly, he blew his knee out earlier this year.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Joel Anderson]

So he didn't play. He played like three games of his senior season. That is the top rated recruit that North Carolina has brought in. I have not seen. Where's their portal? Class ranked?

[Tate Frazier]

Number 21 overall. Class, though, Joel? Top 25 class.

[Joel Anderson]

I mean, the whole thing.

[Van Lathan]

Wait a minute. Top 25 class overall for North Carolina.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Hold on. Number 21?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

Of high school recruits, number 21. I mean, we're always, we're always top 25.

[Joel Anderson]

That's about right.

[Van Lathan]

That's. Yeah. I mean, for. They're not a top 10, top 15 type of. I mean, top 20 would have been a lot better, but that's not bad for them. That's impressive.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay, keep in mind.

[Tate Frazier]

Come on, Joel.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay, here's the thing that's kind of thrown off because they brought in 40. 40 recruits.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

So they.

[Tate Frazier]

It's straight the numbers. It's straight the numbers.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, give me. I'm not looking at 2, 47 right now. What is how many three stars and how many four stars?

[Joel Anderson]

It's.

[Tate Frazier]

It's a majority three stars. I think they have five or six. Four stars, something like that.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. No five stars.

[Tate Frazier]

No five stars.

[Joel Anderson]

28. 28 of the 40 or three stars.

[Tate Frazier]

Look, hey, but it's all about evaluation.

[Van Lathan]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. So let's be fair here, okay? The majority of them are three stars, but for a school like North Carolina, the three star coached up is going to be kind of what you're going to ground your team around. You're going to try to get those. Some of those three stars to play at a four star level. And you're going to need to hit on all of your four stars. I think building out your team with those guys and be able to get those numbers gives you the opportunity to find out which guys you can coach up into really being contributors and producers at their positions.

[Joel Anderson]

That's true. And you know what? And I don't want to give coach Belichick too hard of a time because. So Colorado pulled in the 67th rank overall class and that where. Let me see where they are in. In a transfer portal. I'm going. I'm not at the top 20. They're 23rd. 23rd transfer portal class. 42 commits, though. So, I mean, again, I don't know, man. I just.

[Tate Frazier]

And they got Dion saying that he's gonna find them if they don't, you know, show up to workouts and practice and everything.

[Van Lathan]

Talk about.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

So I want to have this conversation. So Joel, who I called earlier, it's interesting that he had this, this conversation about signing day that he was talking about, like this traditionalist. Joel doesn't. Is not traditionalist at all.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm not.

[Van Lathan]

I called Joel earlier, the least objective intellectual I've ever known. Like, Joel, like, Joel is legitimately one of the smartest guys I PA with. But also, Joel is. Joel has a set of principles, and it. You can't exist outside of those principles. He's like, you're in the. You're inside of the bubble of your beliefs. What you are.

[Joel Anderson]

What did I do? Hey, wait. What brought that up.

[Van Lathan]

Is finding guys that are getting paid and you don't like it. And the answer is why I'm actually fascinated by this.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, no. I. My thought is that Dion, the buzz is gone. Like, it's over. Like, the thing. The. The whole bargain of Dion is that he's supposed to. If he. He doesn't want to do high school recruiting, like, I don't think that's a good idea. I think that that's. Like you said, you build the base. You build a foundation of your program through your high school recruiting. Right. But that's not what he wants to do. He don't want to leave campus, partially because, you know, he's had a lot of health issues.

[Van Lathan]

But.

[Tate Frazier]

Well, he said it. They know where to find me.

[Joel Anderson]

They know where to find. Yeah, but not. But then I'm looking at the portal. Yeah. But now I'm looking at the problem.

[Van Lathan]

That's not gonna work.

[Tate Frazier]

It was never gonna work.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Joel Anderson]

You gotta be. You gotta be top 15, top 10. You know, if. If, like, you're not gonna get. If you're not gonna hustle, then you need to be top 10 in the portal. And I'm just like, oh, you're 23rd. You're just above Missouri, behind South Carolina. I just kind of feel like, given what you lost and what you are, what you were bringing back, I just kind of feel like, all right, this will be it. Like, this will be. This will be your last year. You won't be around next year. You know, just like Bill Belichick. Same deal. Like, you won't be around next year.

[Tate Frazier]

Belichick, he'll be all right. I think Belichick will stay as long as he wants to. First fact here, just to give context on the portal classes. Who's your.

[Van Lathan]

Are we gonna talk about the goddamn fines?

[Tate Frazier]

We're gonna go back to the fines. I just want to give Conte. He's talking about the portal class. I just want to give the rankings so people know Hoosiers are number one, which feels like a bump from the national championship game, right? Tigers, lsu, number two, Texas Tech, AKA we got a lot of bags to drop there at number three, A and M. The Aggies. Number four, Louisville, Virginia Tech, Houston, Arkansas, Notre Dame, Texas. So there's your top 10 classes right now in the transfer portal. But, you know, not Colorado, not North Carolina, so they're not in the mix there. But back to the finding.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, this is great. Oh, yeah. Go to the final. I didn't. This isn't on the list. So y'. All. Y' all springing this on me. So go ahead. What happened?

[Van Lathan]

You were upset on Twitter.

[Joel Anderson]

Do you all have a text thread without me?

[Van Lathan]

That's not true.

[Tate Frazier]

Why up on this?

[Joel Anderson]

We're not.

[Van Lathan]

I'm springing this on the chat. On. On you.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay. But. Yeah. How did y' all have a conversation about it? Because Tate knew about it.

[Tate Frazier]

Knew about what?

[Joel Anderson]

You knew about the finding.

[Tate Frazier]

I just brought up that he was gonna find players.

[Joel Anderson]

I didn't.

[Tate Frazier]

I didn't talk about it. I didn't sidebar this whole thing.

[Joel Anderson]

All right, well, go ahead. That's fine. I'll go ahead. I'm ready to.

[Van Lathan]

What's your issue with Deion Sanders finding the players?

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, I mean, I just think my.

[Tate Frazier]

Prime sunglasses for you, Joel.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, tape then got bought off by a pair of six dollar sunglasses. But look, here's the thing, okay? I mean, obviously I want to see Deion succeed. Like, if it's possible for him to do well at Colorado. I think it. It opens up opportunities for all kinds of new coaches to come in. But I also think that, you know, like, that fine and shit, man, that's you. Okay, I'll give you this. Do you know why I didn't like Billy Napier in the first place? Like, I always. I've had a grudge against Billy Napier going back a few years when he was at ull. He was compelling his players to donate money back to the athletic department. Like, he was making them make mandatory donations to the schools. I'm like, get the out of here. They're in college. Like that. Then this is before all the. The payment. I was like, they don't need to do that. They should not be able to do that. And I don't know how much. He did get some flack for it, but I don't know how many kids had already paid for that. And I just think that, like, trying to, like, Nickelodeon your players, it should. You shouldn't need to find your kids to get them to be on time. That's not an issue. That should not be an issue for. In a well coached, well led program, you don't have to find people to get them to show up on time. I just think that's a bunch of. It's just a bunch of showing off. Like, it's. It's another way to try to express to people, hey, I'm in charge here and I can make you do whatever I want. Like, I just. I don't like that kind of coaching shit.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, I. I can understand. Okay, wait, wait. I can understand it. I actually can understand that. And I, for the most part, I agree. Particularly in college football, where the head coach is such a dominant figure. Normally, if the program is being run from top down, the way it's supposed to be run, you have some sense of discipline and control over the young men. I will say this, though. Anywhere that you are getting paid, you're expected to show up there and show up on time. Okay. We all get paid to do this, right? We can negotiate times amongst each other, but if we don't show up or if we are not, there's going to be a time where there's going to be ramifications. And. Whereas before the coach. Because we can talk about the payments of the athletes as making college football both harder for the coaches and also easier for the coaches. Like, it's harder insofar as you. If you don't have the resources, then you have to go get the resources. It's easier in that. I mean, you guys still recruit, but a lot of times money talks. So if you can have the biggest bag, you get the player. If your bag is big enough, you don't have to do as much recruiting. You just give the money to the player, Whatever. They come to your school. Okay, cool. Said all that. Now, also, this discipline makes it. These payments make the discipline a little bit easier. Okay. Rather than have to go back and forth with you about getting you to go to class, getting you to do this, having to create value with you about whether or not for. Create value with you, for you doing these things that we need you to do to maintain the discipline structure of our program. If you late, I could just take your money. That's easier. Like, if you late, just like anywhere else in the real world, if you late, you no call, you no show. I could just take your money.

[Joel Anderson]

Right. If it's a job. Right. And they treat you as an actual employee that they've collectively bargained with, which is not what is going on in college right now. Also, what Dion gonna do with that money? Like, you. Okay, I just. I'm late. I'm sorry.

[Tate Frazier]

He's gonna buy your replacement.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm four minutes early, so I'm late.

[Van Lathan]

But that. But you know how many jobs I've worked where this hasn't been collected, right? There was no union say @TMZ, so you did something. So it wasn't collectively bar, but professional.

[Joel Anderson]

Sports is different than that.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I would say that it is normally.

[Joel Anderson]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

But in this situation, the ability to, you know, take out a monetary penalty against somebody that you're paying or dock them or do whatever, you know, I don't know. On its face, I don't think I have a problem with it.

[Joel Anderson]

I just. I don't.

[Van Lathan]

I don't.

[Joel Anderson]

I don't think you need to do that. I think that's for show to remind people that, yeah, one of these guys is in charge Here. Sometimes these kids, they need to be put in line, and I just don't like doing that kind of showy. And again, Dion, what you gonna do with that money, man? Or what if I say I don't want to give you my thousand dollars? I'm not gonna give you my thousand dollars. Now what you gonna do? Go make me not play? Okay, well, you could have done that in the first place. Like, we could have. You could have taken playing time away from me in the first place if it was gonna be like that. But I don't have. I shouldn't have to give you no money. And, in fact, Dion, when you submit your invoice, I'm gonna have my attorney call you and say, you. I'm not giving you a thousand dollars. Okay? So, D, you'll need my thousand dollars.

[Tate Frazier]

I wish. I gotta take Joel, like young Joel and Cinnamon to college sports now. You know, I don't.

[Joel Anderson]

Like. I've never. Like, I would just. I. In case you haven't been able to tell. Well, first of all, my coaches loved me, like, when I, you know, I was on time. I didn't around all that stuff. Stop it. But, like, if you're asking me if, like, I respected all of them in quite the same way, that's just not it. Like, I always say about coaches, those are dudes who've spent a lot of time around locker rooms their whole life, right? And so there's good things about that. There's bad things about that. But, like, you have to earn your respect, right? And. And a lot of times, coaches just think, I could just walk in here because I got a whistle, and you supposed to respect me. And that's just. I don't buy into that. Okay.

[Tate Frazier]

He didn't buy that.

[Van Lathan]

I don't buy. He doesn't buy it. What do you think about the fines? You have a problem with it?

[Tate Frazier]

Well, I just think that Dion was trying to do something innovative, you know? Like, I just think that was the whole point.

[Joel Anderson]

He wanted to get sunglasses.

[Tate Frazier]

He just. I just think that was the whole idea. He was trying to be innovative. And I think this also, you know, detracts from the fact that, like, the football's not going so great, and then everyone's like, look, Dion's treating him like professionals. He's making it a professional environment. And then we're having a different conversation when, you know, I think a lot of people would probably want to talk about the football not living up to the hype. So I understand, like, the way to deflect the conversation. And I think that's kind of what Deion's really good at. You know what I mean? Like, that's one of his best traits, is to be able to deflect and get your eyes, you know, somewhere else. Kind of like David Blaine or something, you know, it's a little bit of deception going on, you know, version of.

[Joel Anderson]

The prestige, you know, and it's interesting until you say that too, Tate, because the one thing I think about it and the one thing I don't hear is that usually when coaches, like, have a bad season or something goes wrong, they kind of like, give glancing analysis of, like, where they failed. They say, well, you know, we didn't coach well enough today or whatever. I always have just respected people that own it, bro. And it's like, well, I didn't coach well enough for us to win this year. Like, how I'm gonna find myself for making bad timeout, you know, being. Doing bad at clock management, you know, playing, you know, juggling three quarterbacks. And I didn't have to play. I didn't have to do it that way. Could have been better about the way we played our quarterbacks this year. So I'm gna find myself a game check. Coaches never do that kind of man. They don't, you know, they always want to make. Yeah, I just. I think it's all part of a. Part of making their primarily young, black workforce look like they are under my thumb. I got them under your thumb, guys. We paying them. But I can make them do what I need them to do, and I just don't like that.

[Van Lathan]

I understand that. Very, very impassioned defense. But then on the same token, you didn't want James Franklin to be fired after he shit the bed in a college football season. You are also against the firing of coaches, which would. Which is.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm against firing a good coach or the coaches. James Franklin is a good coach.

[Tate Frazier]

Franklin's doing well at vt, man.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, he was doing bad.

[Van Lathan]

He was bad and they fired him. Right. So, like, that is the consequence.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. I mean. And that's good for Penn State for moving on. I hope it works out. I hope it works out for you. I.

[Van Lathan]

If it works.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Right. I. I tend to think that Virginia Tech is going to be a better football program than Penn State at some point in certain three to four years. Yeah. And I think Matt Campbell is a good coach, but I just think I don't get rid of. You didn't hear me sit up here. And I'm sorry for this, Desean. Foster. You didn't hear me sit up here and say desean Foster should keep his job as she wrote more. I was like, dumb motherfuckers need to get fired.

[Tate Frazier]

But we're going to get DeShawn on the show, by the way.

[Joel Anderson]

No, we're not.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, we are.

[Van Lathan]

We are.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna get him on the show.

[Joel Anderson]

Well, I mean, you know, I should just say I was a big fan of his when he was a player.

[Tate Frazier]

Jordan's got bald.

[Van Lathan]

And now.

[Joel Anderson]

Are you.

[Van Lathan]

Are you not a Joel?

[Joel Anderson]

We haven't seen this even send you sunglasses, Joe.

[Van Lathan]

Are you not an energy keeper? Do you change the energy if we brought desean Foster on here? Are you not gonna say these things to him? You been on.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, I. I said he. I mean, he. He DMed me on Instagram one time, remember? Yeah, that's right. He. Because, remember, the. The clip was. What the. Was Dion F. Desh Foster doing? And he said something like, why don't you ask them? And I was like, hey, man, you know, this is like, after he got fired, a day after, he didn't follow me back neither. But I was just like, well, bro, sorry, you. I said something along the lines of, man, sorry you got fired. But, you know, like, it is what it is.

[Van Lathan]

Also, I do think this. I don't think these fines will take place because I think if Dion does find these kids, that he'll be sued. Yes.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. So if you. If.

[Tate Frazier]

I think. I think it was a veiled threat. I just think it was a way to kind of get, like Joel said. You would hope that they have the. The responsibility and the culture already built in where they're not going to be late to meetings and things anyway, so they don't need to be fine to find the accountability. That's the.

[Joel Anderson]

Coach football, Dion.

[Tate Frazier]

Coach football.

[Joel Anderson]

Just.

[Van Lathan]

Just.

[Joel Anderson]

Just get better. Just have a better football team next year. You don't have to do all the other shit. If you go 9 and 3, people will love you again. Stop doing the other shit, man.

[Tate Frazier]

I think he can do that. Let's talk about the Senior bowl. I know McShay and Minch were there. They were locked in. Joel was very excited to see McShay's breakdowns and all of his rankings from the Senior Bowl. I'm sure he was locked in, trying to make his own.

[Joel Anderson]

Every sip of Coca Cola brings you closer to the excitement of the FIFA World Cup 26. Because nothing compares to the joy. So grab a Coke and drink in.

[Van Lathan]

The FIFA World Cup 26. No purchase necessary.

[Joel Anderson]

13 plus in 50 US states and.

[Van Lathan]

DC with a web enabled device.

[Joel Anderson]

Ends March 1 with eight entry periods.

[Tate Frazier]

[e-mail] SoccerRules Rankings One big question. What's your favorite Senior bowl storyline, if any? Van, do you have any storylines that stood out to you? Did you keep up with the Senior Bowl? Did you watch the Senior Senior Bowl?

[Van Lathan]

I did. And not only did I watch the Senior bowl, but I watched the Senior Bowls practice practices. Oh, I saw. I saw a healthy Garrett Nussmeier, mvp. I saw a healthy Garrett Nussmeier out there. I saw a healthy Garrett Nussmeier. And it was both awesome to see Nuss sling it and be healthy after, you know, getting time to heal up. And also kind of bittersweet, obviously, knowing that he probably wasn't the best version of himself this year.

[Joel Anderson]

That.

[Van Lathan]

That was my storyline. Watching him in practices, excited to play the game, looking like a pretty solid NFL prospect and. And being healthy out there was awesome.

[Tate Frazier]

He was in Joel's top five quarterbacks.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, I think I had him at number four. I had him at number four prospect. A lot of people had slept on Doug Nussmeier, but I said, look, keep a lookout for that kid.

[Van Lathan]

Garrett. Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, Garrett.

[Van Lathan]

Doug's dad.

[Joel Anderson]

Doug is that. Well, look, I'm at the age where, you know, it's hard to remember father, son.

[Tate Frazier]

I like that. You know, the connection, though, that's good. So Garrett Nussmeier stood out. Joe, anybody else in the Senior Bowl? Any storylines that stood out?

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yeah, man. Well, first, I mean, Doc, let's talk. We need to talk about Diego Pavia measuring out shorter than 5, 10, man.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, shorter than Bryce Young. I think that was probably the shocking, the most shocking thing.

[Joel Anderson]

That was the biggest news I saw out of there. And when I watched him play, I didn't get a chance to watch as many practices. When I watched him play, I was like, man, they having to roll him out of the pocket all the time. There's just no hope that he's going to be able to stand in the pocket and see over those linemen and throw over the middle of the field. It just doesn't seem sustainable. Which just furthers my evidence that he's like, one of the best college basket college football stories in the history of college football. But I was just really excited. And I heard Todd talk about this, man, Tyrone Montgomery. Man, did y' all hear about Tyron Montgomery when he was out there? No, no, break it down. I mean, Tyron Montgomery played at Division 3. John Carroll University, man. And he's wide receiver. And they said he was one of the top receivers there. He had a big practice, but, man, look, so his thing, Van, is that he went.

[Van Lathan]

He.

[Joel Anderson]

He was a good basketball player in the Houston area. And then he walked on to play college basketball at lsu. Didn't stay very long. Had to go home because his mother got sick and apparently his graves. Whatever. And so he just goes back home and he's running routes for his brother, who also is a Division 3 quarterback. Right. And his brother was like, man, you really. You could actually play football if you wanted, man. You should try to do this. We should take some film. So they got some film of him and he ended up getting a chance to go play at Nicholls State. And he played a few games, but he. But by this time he had run out of D1 eligibility. So he went down to Division 3. John Carroll showed out, had 57 receptions for 1071 yards and 17 touchdowns. And then he got the invite to the Senior bowl. And they said that boy was lighting him up. And I saw some clips of him out there, man. He looked really good. And I mean, he's going to have a chance to get drafted, man. I mean, he's.

[Van Lathan]

Wow.

[Joel Anderson]

Like he's going to be. Yeah, great story, man. So I was excited to see kids like that. And of course also I got a shout out. Todd McShay recognized. He was like, man, one of the two best players out here was Bud Clark from TCU. Damn right. Damn right.

[Tate Frazier]

Smarter part of Todd to suck up to you. I thought that was right.

[Van Lathan]

Get back on your good side.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, that's right, man. Me and Todd ain't got problems, man. I just disagreed with his assessment on Carson.

[Van Lathan]

It's okay.

[Joel Anderson]

I think he's coming around to me on. He's coming around to my side on that too. Maybe he might have been listening to my big board got somebody's moving up. And I was telling people. I was trying to put people on Garrett Nussmar previously.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

So interesting. I thought that the Senior bowl this year was more interesting than in past years because there were so many players that there were a few quite question marks on them.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

That the Senior bowl could really help their stock, that they had questions to answer. Like even someone like Diego Pavia, like watching his evaluation process is going to be fascinating, man. Yeah, it's going to be fascinating. He's a widow. Widow, man. To see a football player, he's small. It.

[Joel Anderson]

Wow.

[Van Lathan]

He's a good football player. So. So to See what's going to happen with that and whether or not he's going to have a chance at the NFL will be interesting.

[Joel Anderson]

I was going to say, do you think he's going to get drafted?

[Tate Frazier]

No.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[Tate Frazier]

Not after those measurables.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, that's just crazy, man. I mean, obviously hype matters, but it's like, damn, though. But he, like, it's not.

[Tate Frazier]

He'll get. He'll get.

[Joel Anderson]

It's not like he was good at Georgia, usc. He was good at Vanderbilt. He was the engine behind the best Vanderbilt team in school history. And like, they're just like, yeah, man, he. He's a few inches too short. So we're not going to get drafted. I mean, I, I hear what you're saying. It's just kind of shocking.

[Tate Frazier]

I don't know what his hand size is. I didn't see that. So maybe if he has big hands. I mean, that was the Russell Wilson pitch. Right? It's like even though he's smaller, he's got big hands, so he can hold it in the football. Bryce Young and Kyler Murray maybe help, but they have, you know, unique traits, whether it's like the, the mentality of a Bryce Young and the mentals of Bryce Young or the speed and agility of Kyler Murray. I mean, maybe there's a way to pitch that. But yeah, it just seems like it'd be hard to draft him and pretty.

[Van Lathan]

Decent arm talent and also just really accurate, big time quarterback, you know?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, right.

[Tate Frazier]

Doesn't seem like it works. Also, Jay Knott wanted to give him a shout out because we talked about Jay Knot throughout the season, like why he wasn't playing at Oklahoma. They blame the running backs coach there, but Arbuckle is a really good offensive coordinator. I was confused as to why he didn't play as much, but he looked good at the Senior bowl, so Jay Knott wanted to give him some love.

[Joel Anderson]

And you say our Buckle is a good offensive coordinator? There's not a lot of evidence from his first year at Oklahoma, so.

[Tate Frazier]

Well, at Wazu, he was, I should say, I don't know about what was happening last year. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Tate, are you familiar with Fatty Arbuckle?

[Tate Frazier]

Fatty Arbuckle?

[Joel Anderson]

What? Hold on.

[Van Lathan]

Are you guys. You say Arbuckle. Are you guys familiar with Fatty Arbuckle?

[Tate Frazier]

I'm more familiar with Ben Arbuckle. Can you give me some updates on Fatty Arbuckle?

[Van Lathan]

I'm just saying look it up right there. Joel, what do you see when you look up Fatty?

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, yeah. I. So I remember the name Fatty Arbuckle. Wasn't there, like a character called Fanny Arbuckle, too?

[Van Lathan]

I'm not sure.

[Tate Frazier]

Charlie Chaplin.

[Van Lathan]

Chaplin. Do you guys. Are you familiar with him? You know who that is?

[Tate Frazier]

I know Buster Keaton is the first Charlie.

[Joel Anderson]

Hollywood's first major, major scandal.

[Tate Frazier]

What'd he do?

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, man, this is crazy. This sounds amazing. Oh, San Francisco, man. He was a cute. Accused of killing an actress is what it sounds like.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, daddy. The fat man Arbuckle. Okay, when you bring up our buckle, you got to give it up to the originator. You feel what I'm saying?

[Joel Anderson]

Damn.

[Tate Frazier]

He was a silent star himself.

[Van Lathan]

He was a laughter. Fats. Fats Arbuckle. Big F they used to call them during those days.

[Joel Anderson]

He merely had carried her to bed and she had fallen off.

[Van Lathan]

That don't sound right.

[Tate Frazier]

Oh, oh, Fatty Arbuckle. Not a good name.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, Fatty, Fatty, Fatty, Fatty.

[Joel Anderson]

She died. Oh, ruptured bladder. Oh, my God.

[Van Lathan]

Fatty. Not great. Not great.

[Joel Anderson]

Was that movie about this?

[Van Lathan]

Nah, man. This is Fatty Arbuckle. These are things I know. Fatty Arbuckle situation.

[Tate Frazier]

Maybe. Maybe that's a film we make and we try to, like, do an Oscar film there, you know?

[Van Lathan]

No, we do. We make. We make a movie about John Arbuckle, the coach. Yeah, of this. So John Arbuckle, the coach of Oklahoma, is drawing up plays. One day, he's in his office, he's drawing up plays. He's figuring out how to be quarters, actually. Yeah. He's figuring out. He's. Oh, see, he's figuring out how to.

[Tate Frazier]

Be quarter discovery in our buckle.

[Van Lathan]

So he's in there, he's figuring out how to be quarters. He's like, over time, he gets a knock on his door, opens the door, he goes out there and this woman looks at him and she goes, I have something to tell you. He's like, what? You owe me. He's like, how do I owe you? He's like, your family owes my family.

[Joel Anderson]

Ooh.

[Van Lathan]

She is the great granddaughter of the woman Virginia.

[Joel Anderson]

Virginia Rappe. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

She's the great grand.

[Tate Frazier]

How about Ben's getting ready to play Virginia too. You know, a little double entendre.

[Joel Anderson]

There you go.

[Van Lathan]

Never knew that his ancestor was Fatty Arbuckle.

[Joel Anderson]

Damn.

[Van Lathan]

And this is a thriller.

[Joel Anderson]

I like this.

[Van Lathan]

Where she starts popping up at practices, popping up at games, just looking at him going, you owe me. Players start, like, getting knocked off. These players are, like, dying and stuff like that.

[Tate Frazier]

Disappearing.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, disappearing. And he's saying, yo, I know who's doing this to me. She thinks that my family killed her family. He doesn't even know what she's doing it for until he finds out during the movie that Fatty Arbuckle is his great, great, great uncle. And she. And you know, and this started her family down a path.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Her great grandmother was, like, orphaned, and now everybody's up and they hate the Arbuckles. And so now Ben Arbuckle or John Arbuckle, whatever he has, we change it to John. He has to. He has to. He's getting stalked by this. And she could be beautiful. She could be, as a matter of fact, the first thing that happens. Okay, move on after this. This guy's probably married, Right. The first thing that happens is he has a torrid affair.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh.

[Van Lathan]

Sweeney not knowing that she is really just bringing him into the web. Oh, yeah, the revenge on the Army.

[Joel Anderson]

She's gonna blackmail him.

[Van Lathan]

She's gonna blackmail him, but she's also gonna take it out on his players. This whole thing. He doesn't know why she's doing this, but it turns out he wants revenge for Virginia.

[Joel Anderson]

That's crazy. She is married and his wife Lauren have a son together. The other thing. What did I say?

[Van Lathan]

Nothing. No, you're right. We're just being taste. We still think about the movie. Go ahead.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay. Yeah. Hold on, dog. Did y' all know that this found Bob Hope? He discovered Bob Hope. It says wow. In Cleveland, Ohio, in 1927.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, I guess with Fatty, you get a little bit of the good.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, I mean, you got it.

[Van Lathan]

I don't know if Bob Hope is good. I bet if I look hard enough, I could find some up.

[Tate Frazier]

Probably.

[Joel Anderson]

That's a tough one.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

You know, Bob Hope is big in Burbank, and his Bob Hope, everything around la. But if I. If I looked up. If I looked it up, I bet Bob Hope was in black.

[Joel Anderson]

Are you about to look him up in the Epstein files?

[Van Lathan]

It's gonna be so. If I look hard enough, it's gonna be some up about Bob.

[Tate Frazier]

Can you not look? I like Bob. Please.

[Joel Anderson]

I'm just going to look and see if he's in the Epstein files.

[Tate Frazier]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

Real quick.

[Joel Anderson]

Hold on, bro.

[Van Lathan]

I think Bob Hope was dead. Bro was around.

[Tate Frazier]

Can I get one? One quick Hollywood story. I was at Sunset Gower. This was. I was 23. I was working, obviously, for the early iteration of the ringer. And there was a janitor, custodian guy who's, like, working there in the alleyway. And he was just standing there, and Jim Cunningham and I Were there. And we were talking to him, you know, for a second. He's an older guy. And he goes, you see these rooms down here? And I was like, yeah. He goes, that's where they used to keep the actresses. And I was like, what?

[Van Lathan]

What?

[Tate Frazier]

And that made me think, well, you're talking about Fatty Arbuckle. Apparently that was like a thing back in the day. Like the actresses would have to sleep at the studio. It was. It like it messed me up.

[Joel Anderson]

You know what I mean? Wow.

[Tate Frazier]

That is day. I was like, I need. Did not need to hear that story. So there you go.

[Joel Anderson]

The world is a lot weirder than we could have ever known.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Fatty was a part of it.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, he was part of it, man.

[Tate Frazier]

He's originator definitely brought it back to Fatty. Big van on campus. I just wanted to get van's thoughts on this. This is a topic I, you know, it feels like it's been solved at this point. It's kind of passed a little bit, but. Lane Kiffin, the tweets Van.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

Is it.

[Tate Frazier]

Is this worthy of a big van on campus or have we moved past it or are we acting like it never happened?

[Van Lathan]

Are we talking about the Trump?

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah. The tweet and delete, as Drake calls them. The tweeting deleters. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Let me tell you what. What really got me about the Lane Kiffin tweets so, you know, I could wax poetic about my own personal political beliefs right there. Appreciate you guys. Okay.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, There you go. Thank you. Yeah, man, Great.

[Van Lathan]

Quit kipping back a tweet and delete. See, Frizz, I know what you're doing. You want revenge. Pop that up. Nobody even call for.

[Joel Anderson]

I like, man. He was quick, man.

[Van Lathan]

So like, then it wipes away. So look, I know I could watch poetic about my own personal political beliefs and what I think makes a good society. And you know how I think people should treat each other and the way we should protect each other and the things we should protect each other from. Like, that's going to be about me. It's not going to be about probably a fair share of our audience, but not all of them. Right. So is what it is kind of the country we live in right now. But I will say it is beyond Lane Kiffin's political beliefs. Tweets like that make me wonder whether or not Lane Kiffin is fucking stupid.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh.

[Tate Frazier]

I think that's because.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it is not a low leverage political moment right now. And particularly when he tweeted this, what was going on, what we were reacting to in Minneapolis, either Lane Kiffin is just a football brained meathead idiot, or he was taking a very specific moment to make a political statement at one of the most incendiary times during this current run of the Trump administration. And the reason why I just replied shit is because that tweet was so many things. These college coaches being maga, that's not surprising. Guys, I am from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, but I'm, I'm not surprised by the fact that you are a conservative, guys. I'm not surprised by that. I've been around it, I've been around, I've played ball with y', all, I've hung out, I've done the whole thing. That's not that big of a. But like, particularly this president, his regime, at that point, at that point I'm like, what the fuck is Lane doing? And let me tell you something else. He deleted that shit. And he deleted that because people went, no, y' all have your political beliefs. I'm not going to tell you guys not to have your political beliefs. I hate it when they do the shit up and dribble thing. I'm not gonna tell you guys not to have your political beliefs. Have them. But know that there is, there's, there's a lot that comes with that. People are going to ask more questions. Now you're making yourself into a political coach, not just a coach of the LSU Fighting Tigers. They're going to ask your depth of knowledge on this stuff. If you brand my school, the school that I love, if you make hats and you do all of that stuff now, we got to have different conversations now. I'm not going to just ask you about third and 10. I'm going to ask you when someone gets shot in the face in Minneapolis. I'm going to ask you when a country is invaded. I'm going to ask you these questions. That's what you're signing up for. Anybody that dives into that. So if you want to have those conversations while you try to navigate, negotiate a job, that to me is going to write the story of your professional career, have at it. But for everybody out there, don't get mad at us for asking because we're not going for that.

[Joel Anderson]

I like that. I like that. Lane Kiffin, early candidate for Hoe of the year. I bet y' all show up. You're gonna show up at Wegmans with me now, huh?

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, there you go.

[Joel Anderson]

But, but so let me just. And, and that was very well said, Van. And this upsets me for a Whole host of reasons. But I want to start briefly back a little more than 10 years ago, like 10 years and three months ago, when I had the privilege and opportunity to cover the Mizzou football team's boycott. Right. And they did that as an act of solidarity with the black students on campus who were upset at the administration's response to a series of racist incidents. You can look them up, but, like, one of them involved them smearing literal shit on some of the facilities there. Okay, okay. And the football team joined in. They saw themselves in community with the other students on campus, and they said, we're prepared to skip next week's game against byu, which would have cost the school a good amount of money. Right. And so what ended up happening as a result of this, as a bunch of reporters like me came down there, spent all this time talking to people, and ultimately, the president of the university system resigned. Gary Pinkle, who was the head coach at the time, retired after the season. But I think there's something about that story that, as I was writing about it and researching it, that I got really excited about. There were a couple of these local St. Louis DJs, Richard Onion Horton, Charlie Tuna Edwards, and they want different radio stations in St. Louis. But what they would do is they would go on air and they would incur. They would encourage black coaches and black parents to not send their kids to the University of Mizzou. And for a long time, people said, man, that's one of the reasons Mizzou is just not tapped into its. You know, to its potential, because they're not able to get those kids out of St. Louis that they should have, because people had convinced them for years, generations of people had convinced them that, man, they're not going to treat you right up there. It's not going to be a good place. They don't have any respect for you. And, look, maybe people think that's going too far, but I admire that kind of commitment to community. And I should just say this because I would love to fucking break a program. I have no problem admitting that. It would be quite a legacy for me. I would love it if that was, like, in the second paragraph of my obit or something like that. And I've gone on a number of programs over the last few years to call for collective action. And whether that's boycotting a program or a bunch of kids saying, I'm not going to play for that coach. I'm not going to play for that program. Great. It doesn't have to be lsu. It could be tcu because I. And I'm so serious about this because I get mad at a dumb ass like Lane Kiffin who has no respect for his kids or their parents or with the communities. What these kids are going through right now, like, that's the thing that I think they have so little respect for the people whose lives they impact every day. And I just wonder, I just want to kind of shape kids and coaches. I'm like, you want to play for that guy? Like, is this the guy that you want to be in charge of your life for the next two, three years?

[Van Lathan]

I agree with everything you're saying wholeheartedly. Yeah, you don't shake the kids, not.

[Joel Anderson]

The kids and the coaches.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, you shake the parents and the coaches. I agree. If the black athlete in this country, and that was incredibly well said, the black athlete in this country ever wakes up to the amount of influence that they have on these programs and this stuff like that, like part of, part of making, part of suppressing that conversation is telling them that it's not their fight.

[Joel Anderson]

Right?

[Van Lathan]

And it just is. Yeah, it is.

[Joel Anderson]

That's right.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that's right. It is.

[Joel Anderson]

It is. And I think, you know, so there's been a real problem in over the. Again, really, this is an issue of generation. And some of it is good because it involved the desegregation of schools and some people coming together and having different experiences and choosing to leave their old communities behind, no neighborhoods behind, and start over. And sometimes that can be a great thing, right? Like I. So many of the guys I play football with at tcu, man, like they came in as one guy, left as another, and they have great middle class lives and families in ways that they probably would not have been able to have had they not gone to school on scholarship. But what I would say is that I've just really belabored how the distance between athletes, our black athletes and our communities in recent years. And I just, I'm of a different generation, dog. Like, we respected ourselves. Like them folks didn't have nothing we wanted but money and the respect of authority. Like, we would have never gone to no damn Aiden Ross. Like, we wouldn't buddy up to people who didn't respect us or our women in our communities like that. That would have been humiliating to me. The people that I admired growing up, they wanted to rob Aiden Ross. They didn't want to fuck around and sit down and stream with it. And I just kind of like, man, I want somebody to feel the pressure of collective action right now because they Have a lot of it. They have the potential to do something with it and they've never done anything with it. And I just want that. And again, this is. Kids, it's not necessarily your fight, but you're going to be in the fight at some point and you got to wake up to it.

[Van Lathan]

I would love to get into this issue deeper because while I do believe that the Joel Andersons of the world have always felt that way, maybe the Jim Browns of the world have always felt that way, maybe the Ali's and the Bill Russell's of the world have always felt that way.

[Tate Frazier]

Kareem.

[Van Lathan]

Kareem. Guys like that have always felt that way to a degree. I, I'm skeptical that there's been a time, even if it's 95, 96 or 97, where there was a large, large cohort of people that if you asked them to put a social, political stand, no matter what it was in front of their future as an athlete, that they would do it. And I, I don't think what we're seeing right now is so like out of the question. I don't think that what we're seeing right now is so, I don't think it's so unique. Like, even, even with a figure like Deion Sanders. Blackness was a part of America's response to Deion Sanders, but I don't know that it was ever a part of Deion Sanders response to America that was a little bit more about capitalism, a little bit more about how he felt like he should be able to act and to comport himself as a black man. Deion's always been very proud. I've always had a lot of respect for Deion Sanders and the fact that he never let anybody mute him or anything like that. But like causes like socially or standing in the gap or anything like that. That generation of athlete wasn't about that. Not, not to, to me that died. The one, the, the, the Jordan generation. And all of those guys changed it. Yeah, those guys were out of that fight. It felt like maybe what I should.

[Joel Anderson]

Say is the generation of men that I looked up to, the men, the men, the men that came before us, right. The beginning that grew up under Jim Crow. Right. And so they knew what it was like to live in a community and to be skeptical of the coaches that came in to your communities and say, well, I'm going to do this for you and I'm going to treat you like a father, but then like have that level of respect for you. And I could go on and on about, like, how, like, you can see that respect in the way that the coaching labor force looks and the way that the athletic department labor forces look. I. I could get into all that, but I'm not going to because I. I realize I'm up the show by not being fun today, but. But I, I. This makes me. It. This has made me mad for so long, and I would love for somebody to get hurt. I would love for Ole Miss for people to be like, y', all, man, we're not gonna go there. Everybody's racist but your school. You've done too much. And we not. We. There's enough recruits that we're going to just say, don't go there. Transfers, don't sign there. I don't care.

[Tate Frazier]

Someone got to Lane for him to delete the tweet. You know what I mean?

[Van Lathan]

There was a lot of people that was like, come on, bro. Like, you know what I'm saying? The least we could do because if we gonna talk about it, y' all not gonna like the conversation.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, right.

[Van Lathan]

The least you could do is not. It's like, not talking about. Because if we gonna talk about it. Yeah, if we gonna talk about it, y' all not gonna like the conversation. Y' all not. You never do. You're not gonna. The least we could do is not discuss it. Now, it's problematic for me not to discuss it. I always find my way into this conversation. I want people to go back and. And. And look at a saga. We should do ringer, tailgate sagas. Okay, now I'm gonna mention the name. That's a Fatty Arbuckle type.

[Tate Frazier]

Oh, man.

[Van Lathan]

Killing Winslow the second. K2, now, that's a rotaz. Horrible person. Okay.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

When he was being recruited, there was a very prominent story that surrounded his recruitment. That story was of his father, who I believe is in the hall of Fame. I know he was one of the guys. Oh, yeah, yeah. He's in the hall of Fame, Right? Kellan Winslow, the first, who had said publicly while he was, like, a commentator and stuff, that his son, who was the very best tight end in the league in, In. In. In high school sports, would not play for a white coach. His son had to play for a black coach. And they would ask him this question. He'd talk about this everywhere. It was a whole big deal. He would only go to a school and play for a school where there was a black coach, and it just became a gigantic thing. It became a big deal. Now, K2 ended up going to Miami, and I guess the trade off was they had a black receivers coach at the time.

[Tate Frazier]

Played for Larry Coker, though.

[Van Lathan]

Played for Larry Coker. So he ended up going to Miami. But just the idea that race or politics or the critique of the coaching industry or politics and sports themselves would be a part of the calculus in father and son making their decision of where they were going to go just made people so uncomfortable. Yeah, I mean, this. HBO Real Sports covered this. This was everywhere for them. This made people so uncomfortable. But, you know, things are the way they are, and every time we push, God damn, they push back hard.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah. Yeah, I'm. I'm. I'm not optimistic about this. Right. And, I mean, I know that there's a lot of reasons and there's a lot of compelling reasons why kids have to go where they got to go. And I don't begrudge them that, but I just think that they have an awful lot of power. They have the kind of, like, political and social and cultural power that not very many minority groups have in this country. Like, they really can move.

[Tate Frazier]

And you have it for that time, you know what I mean? Like, it goes quick.

[Joel Anderson]

So you've got it for. Yeah, you got it for a finite amount of time, man. It goes by really fast, and it's just like. I feel like it's just a squandered opportunity. Right.

[Van Lathan]

Boy, Joe, army got smaller today.

[Joel Anderson]

They're gonna be damn dog.

[Van Lathan]

Welcome. Welcome to the club, Joe. I can't race everything. Race, race, race, race, race. We hate that. Keep them off. We don't like them.

[Joel Anderson]

I know, man. I know. I'm sorry, man. I made it uncomfortable today, Doc. I don't.

[Van Lathan]

You know.

[Tate Frazier]

Well, it was an uncomfortable tweet. I don't know. It just.

[Van Lathan]

It just.

[Tate Frazier]

It was a divisive thing, and I'm glad it was deleted. So, hopefully, like you said, Van, if you're gonna bring it into the conversation, you're not going to like the conversation. So hopefully, for Lane's sake, he. He does not bring that back into the conversation. But who knows? He just seems like he's always being a party to nonsense. Oh, yeah.

[Joel Anderson]

Like.

[Tate Frazier]

Like how much nonsense is allowed until it becomes very serious. You know what I mean? It's like some. At some point, you have to respond with the right type of sensibility.

[Joel Anderson]

You know, Van is the one who told him he needed to grow up, man. Like, he's. I mean, he's been. He's been pointing about this, about. About the. And, yeah, he's just. I don't. I. I think He's a go. He's a better coach when you don't expect anything out of him.

[Tate Frazier]

You know, I got a line for him. Shut up and scribble. Scribble those plays.

[Joel Anderson]

Wow.

[Van Lathan]

I like that.

[Joel Anderson]

I like that. Get your. Get your ass on the.

[Van Lathan]

I'm saying I have no problem with having the conversation. I really don't. I think everybody express yourselves the way you want about politics and talk about it and stuff like that. But be ready, because.

[Tate Frazier]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

That's a conversation with no prisoners. Can be hard.

[Joel Anderson]

Oh, and also, just real quick, it's your army. If you have a problem. What I said you. I'm sorry. I don't give. I don't give a man. I'm sorry.

[Tate Frazier]

It was sweet, though. The Joel army came out. They were. They were fighting for you in the suit. The award show. Go check out.

[Joel Anderson]

Because they saw how y' all did me, dog. That's the dirty man. That was. That was. That was fine. It was funny. I laugh every time I see it, but I was like, damn, bro. I had to buy. I had to bring an extra bag to la.

[Tate Frazier]

That was the worst part. When I. When I thought about the logistics of you traveling with a suit. That's really tough. But again, you were a good sport about it.

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

Van's Billy. Billy has zero regrets.

[Joel Anderson]

I know. Billy don't give a fuck. I mean, again, y'. All. Y' all clearly have a text thread that I'm not involved in. Y', all, dog. I mean, whatever.

[Van Lathan]

Not true.

[Tate Frazier]

It's not true, Joel. It's super bowl this weekend. Last thing. Any thoughts on the Super Bowl, Van, before we get out of here?

[Van Lathan]

I said it before, I'll say it again. There's a lot riding on the Seahawks. I said this on midnight, boys. I'll say it again right now. Seahawks, you have to win. I can't do it. I can't. The Patriots. I can't do it. I can't do it. The effect on my life, the culture of this company would be too great.

[Joel Anderson]

Wait, I understand. Yeah. Van. Bill Simmons, Lathan, that would be great for you, man.

[Van Lathan]

How so?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, it'd be more exciting to be at the crib. You know what I'm saying? When you hanging out over there, you.

[Van Lathan]

Know, sometimes I don't want it to happen. And if the Seahawks lose, I'll take it out on the franchise forever.

[Joel Anderson]

Wow.

[Van Lathan]

Can't happen. Can't happen. Not with this Patriots team. Not this way. Not this can't happen. Patriots Patriots fans get mad. If you want. Want you to lose. Want you to lose mad. Actually shout out to LSU and all the players that play for the Patriots, Will Campbell, like a lot of guys out there that are doing their thing, you know what I mean? But like, in the future, not now, can happen.

[Joel Anderson]

Do any of those guys do the gritty anymore? Because I remember when you were saying the gritty was like a big part of the culture has that, like, that. That's kind of over now, right?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, we make up new.

[Joel Anderson]

Okay. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, we. We made up the gritty and then people, everybody gritty on Fortnite, Louisiana. Things happens, but, you know, nothing. You know, we have to bring back raising the roof after decades and decades of, you know, I mean, so maybe the Green comes back one day.

[Tate Frazier]

We did get Octavia Spencer to raise the roof.

[Joel Anderson]

Spencer to raise the roof. Man, she didn't know what she was doing.

[Tate Frazier]

Man, she didn't know what she was doing. That was sweet, though. If, if the Patriots do win, though, North Carolina will be the sixth school all time to have a president and a Super bowl winning quarterback. Delaware, Miami of Ohio, Michigan, Stanford, Navy. Could be North Carolina, number six. So just putting that out there, wouldn't.

[Joel Anderson]

It just kind of be funny? I was just like, so Bill. Tom Brady leaves Bill Belichick and wins the Super Bowl a couple years later. Then as soon as Bill Belichick leave, two years later, they're back in the Super Bowl. I just, I don't. Again, it doesn't mean we. We're all smart enough to understand that Bill Belichick is the greatest defensive mind in the history of coaching.

[Van Lathan]

Right. But it's just kind of funny to NFL Joel, the fact that he didn't.

[Tate Frazier]

Get in the hall of Fame, like.

[Joel Anderson]

This is kind of funny.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Okay. All right.

[Joel Anderson]

Everything you touched lately has been. Gotten a lot better when you stop touching it.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, not good. Hey, we're in the off season. We appreciate everybody tuning in to ring your tailgate. Thanks for listening. Again, thanks to Octavia Spencer for trying to be on the show. We appreciate it. We'll be back next week, if God willing, you know what I mean? That's the. That's the goal, right, Joe? We'll be back next week, correct?

[Joel Anderson]

Yeah, man. I don't know we got planned, but I. I'll be here.

[Tate Frazier]

We'll be reacting to the Super Bowl. Yeah. Let's raise it one last time. All right, There you go. Thanks, everybody, for watching. Ring your tailgate and we will see you all next week. Must be 21 or older and president in select states. For Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino are 18 and older and President D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler or visit RG help.com call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE and WHY or text Hope and why in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.