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Risk Never Sleeps Podcast
Episode #104. Virtualized Endpoints: A New Era in Healthcare Cybersecurity with James Millington, Vice President of Product Marketing and Industry Solutions at IGEL Technology
00:40:05
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign welcome to Risk Never Sleeps, where we meet and get to know the people delivering patient care and protecting patient safety. I'm your host, Ed Gaudet. Welcome to the Risk Never Sleeps podcast in which we learn about the people that are on the front lines delivering and protecting patient care. I'm Ed Gaudette, the host of our program and today I am so excited. I'm going to try to maintain my composure here, but I am pleased to be joined by a good friend of mine. We've known each other forever, James Millington from Igel. He's the VP of Product marketing. Did I get that right, James?
- [00:43]
B
Yeah, that's good.
- [00:44]
A
Industry solutions and industry solutions. Okay, cool, cool. James, welcome to the program. We're going to have a little fun. So if you're a listener, please stay on and listen to this whole podcast because we're going to. We're going to have a little fun at the end here. Unbeknownst to James, I'm going to surprise him a little bit. But so James, let's start off with obviously tell our listeners about yourself, your role and your current organization.
- [01:08]
B
Sure. James Millington, as you heard, Vice President, Product Marketing and Industry Solutions at Igel. Igel is an organization that has been around for about 20 years. Previously known as a therapy in client vendor, very closely associated with Citrix and the way that a lot of the HRS are delivered. About two years ago we stopped doing hardware and now we solely focus on the secure Endpoint operating system. We partner with HPLG and Lenovo for the hardware piece. We focus on delivering this secure operating system. We are a leader in healthcare. A large proportion of our revenue is derived from healthcare and delivering the right security solution for the Endpoint, ensuring that care providers can always get to the information that they need.
- [02:04]
A
Awesome. Awesome. And we're going global with this episode. So where are you from and where's your organization?
- [02:09]
B
Yeah, so I am originally and I'm now in the United kingdom. I spent 16 years in Boston and doing a lot of work with healthcare organizations in the United States and around the world thanks to a couple of the roles that I have held. And Igel is actually a German company. It has a large presence in US Healthcare, but was founded in Germany and Igel or Eagle as it's pronounced in Germany, actually means hedgehog.
- [02:47]
A
Wow, okay. Did not know that. We're already starting off with fun facts and wait, there's more. All right, so how did you get into healthcare?
- [02:58]
B
Good question. So I started working for Citrix in 2000 and I dealt, I was product management for a lot of the management products that were part of the Citrix infrastructure. As part of that, I started to do work with Epic on some of the load testing and load balancing. So Citrix and Epic of course have always been. I'm in the delivery of the ehr, similarly with Cerner, but that was my introduction into healthcare and then with the, the type of customers and presence in healthcare that Citrix had, that took me to a company you might have heard of called Improvata, where I spent nearly four years there. So that was deeply in with the workflows of the care providers and how they access the patient information. Then I went on to VMware and ran the healthcare solution marketing there. So in and around healthcare for a large portion of my professional life, but always from the vendor side, I will say that always from the vendor side.
- [04:09]
A
Excellent, Excellent. And as you look out over the next couple of years and you think about your business, what are some of the key strategic initiatives you're thinking about?
- [04:18]
B
What gets me excited and angry in the same respect is endpoint security in healthcare. The number of attacks that are happening that are successful, that in our view can be prevented, particularly in healthcare. And the reason that I say that is healthcare has been using virtualization technologies for a long time. As we have just discussed, Healthcare has been used to not running applications at the endpoint. And I say if you're not running your Windows applications at the endpoint, but you're running your Windows applications virtualized somewhere, then you really don't need to run Windows at the endpoint because it's costly, it's complex and it's vulnerable. Healthcare is used to saying, and as, as would have been in the past with Igel, let's put a thin client there. Because nobody can attack a thin client. You can't. The, the Igel OS has never been compromised in a cyber attack. So we go into organizations and they adopt virtualization, but they don't. They still run Windows at the endpoint. And there's very few use cases. As to why they still need to do that. There's some, don't get me wrong, and being in and around this industry for a long time, it's never all or nothing. It's never one single solution across all use cases. But you have to look at the use cases and what you can do. So we know for clinical workstations, having a badgetap solution that signs a care provider into their desktop, running in the data center is a phenomenal way of spending time Keeping focus on the patient, securing the endpoint. If somebody comes in and walks off with that endpoint, there's no data on it. You don't have to do a breach investigation to understand has patient records walked out of the door with that device? No, they didn't. Because you can't do information on an Igel endpoint. Therefore no breach to your question. I think we can have a huge impact on the security in healthcare. Like all things, yes, there's other attack points, but for the endpoint we can just take that off the list. Done. Now let's take that money that we can save and let's go put that to securing other elements of the infrastructure. I think security is something that we can have a really big impact on. And yeah, I said it makes me angry because there are really good choices out there that can be made that are evidence based in terms of it that could be made now and could really impact the way that CAT is delivered and keeping the information up and available to the providers.
- [07:18]
A
And what do you think from a provider's perspective, why not just adopt solutions like Igel? What do you think holds them back? Why don't they.
- [07:25]
B
Well, the providers themselves, they don't care. They just want. They just. This stuff just needs to work. And by virtue of what I've just said and being able to avoid attacks and being able to avoid downtime from ransomware, it does just work from the IT side. I think there's always an element that some organizations, some leaders have always done things a certain way and that might be they know Windows on the endpoint and that's just what they do. And I would urge those leaders to take another look. We know in healthcare within Chime, everybody is talking to each other. Talk to some of the your colleagues and the way that they've done things differently. And I do just want to point out, I've said a couple of times, don't run Windows at the endpoint. And I do mean don't run Windows at the endpoint, but absolutely run Windows in the data center. Citrix have had solutions around this. Omnisa now as they are now have got solutions around this. What Microsoft are doing with ABD and Windows 365 is terrific. We love Windows. Just run it securely in the data center.
- [08:40]
A
So that inertia of change is really what's holding them back?
- [08:44]
B
I think so, yeah. That's what we tend to see.
- [08:46]
A
Yeah. And it's a really good way to think about security from an infrastructure perspective because oftentimes we look past that and we think about, we need all these security protections in place, but if we looked at it from an infrastructure perspective, maybe we wouldn't need to spend as much money on some of those other protections that we have in place.
- [09:05]
B
So you're 100% right. And we have a. I should look.
- [09:10]
A
At Igel for a job. Maybe I should be. I think I'm telling the story pretty good, James.
- [09:15]
B
You're learning, you're getting that it's. But to your point. So we have a very thorough TCO calculator because there's three ways that we can impact the endpoint. There's security, there's the tco, and there's the sustainability, which is another story which is becoming increasingly important. Security. In research that we did, we found that organizations may be spending up to 40% of their endpoint budget on the software security stack and the IT operations to run that software security stack. So if you think about it, all the different security, epp, vpn, edr, xdr, dlp, av, if you want to still throw that in, there is a ton of overlapping software solutions that are put at the endpoint. That takes a lot of your budget and it takes a lot of the resources on the endpoint to act, actually run that. So as much as 40% can just. Of your endpoint budget can just go in that. The second thing that creates is complexity. I am sure every organization out there has had some example of two pieces of software conflicting with each other. And then the big thing that we saw a couple of months ago, if that was the CrowdStrike outage, you wouldn't.
- [10:46]
A
Need CrowdStrike on the endpoint if you had Igel, would you?
- [10:50]
B
This is a good interview. Doing really well.
- [10:52]
A
Thank you. Thank you.
- [10:53]
B
But to your point, so to this.
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A
Point, not good for CrowdStrike, but good for Igel.
- [10:59]
B
And you still may need to run CrowdStrike. If you're running Windows in the data center, you still may need to run something like, I love CrowdStrike.
- [11:07]
A
I'm a user CrowdStrike.
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B
So there's still a point. It's just. You don't need it on the endpoint.
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A
Yeah, yeah.
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B
Now, we had our Disrupt user conference in Munich just last week, or depending on when you're listening to this. And we have just created a phenomenal video with Aaron Miri, who I'm sure everybody that's watching this will. Will know Aaron Baptist. He has been on the forefront with his team in deploying Microsoft AVD into a clinical environment, working with Igel and some other vendors. He told the story and we will be publishing the video very shortly of the morning that the CrowdStrike event happened. He had about a thousand devices already deployed with Igel. He's going through this process now. He's really on the leading edge with Microsoft AVD into a clinical environment. You go talk to him. If you're look at this, he had a thousand devices. Not one of those was impacted. He took the decision because they're mid rollout. All of the rest of his endpoint devices, they rolled immediately onto Igel with avd. And it was a very quick setting to roll back to a previous snapshot. No downtime. VR was full all morning. No impact on patients. Saw in the news across the US across the world, there were impacts to healthcare and other industries and not being able to see patients, not to Igel patients.
- [12:44]
A
That's a nice clinical continuity option that you could put in place. Now just. That's for you. That's free. There you go. Free marketing advice for you, James. I want to see clinical continuity all over.
- [12:57]
B
Absolutely.
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A
Marketing. Now we got to move on. This has been really good and I'm sure listeners are excited about Igel and what you do. And I've seen it in. In operation. It's incredible technology and it's come a long way too, as you said, with the advances that Microsoft has made. So definitely, if you're listening and you're running IT infrastructure, take a look at the Igel products. And I'm not. This is not an ad, by the way. This is. You're not paying me to say that.
- [13:25]
B
I have not. Sorry if I ever did it there a little bit.
- [13:30]
A
All right, so we talked about priorities. Let's talk about you now. You, the person, the man, James Millington. Yeah, that's right. My favorite topic. So we've known each other for so long, but I was thinking about when you were saying the video. I thought you were going to say you were doing the video because remember when you did Dr. James McDreamy Millington on stage at In Bravada? Remember you did our first. Did you do like our first video? And then we ended up hiring professional.
- [13:59]
B
The mess. Still doing that demo.
- [14:01]
A
They are doing that demo. That demo's amazing.
- [14:04]
B
It appears to work.
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A
Now, when you go into an NHS hospital, do you see Improvada in action?
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B
Yeah, absolutely.
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A
It's crazy, isn't it? It's great. And I tell the nurses or the doctors, yeah, I used to work for that company. They're like, oh, can you. Then you start asking me like, oh, I have a problem. Can you like. I'm like.
- [14:21]
B
I still look behind the monitors. If you go into. I did have to take my daughter and I'm my daughter sitting on the bed waiting, and I'm around the back of the computer and looking what's connecting to. Again, I'm sure everybody that's listening through this does the same thing. What they're running over there. Why don't you get.
- [14:41]
A
I did the same thing. I remember I hurt my leg and I went into the orthopedic and my wife was with me and she saw my Improvada jacket on or something and goes, oh, do you work for improv or. It was a cor. It was a cortex thing. And then she oh, do you work for cortex? I'm like, I work for improv. It's. Cortex is a product. Oh, no, we use it. We love it. We love it. And for 20 minutes we talked all about cortex and my wife was, are you going to check his leg out? What's going on here? But no, Improvise has got an amazing brand still to this day that and I had a stake at in helping build and. All right, James Millington, outside of healthcare, it. What's your passion? What would you be doing if you weren't doing this?
- [15:23]
B
Probably scuba diving.
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A
Really? You're a scuba diver?
- [15:27]
B
I did.
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A
I did not know that you probably never gone like Belize and. Yeah, no, I've been sober for three years, so it's odds are I probably did forget.
- [15:37]
B
Oh, yeah, no, it's. Yeah, scuba diving is a passion. So funnily enough, actually when I met you is just about when my first daughter was born and small kids put the Kai Bosh on scuba diving. But yeah, being able to travel, being able to just those great experiences, the different kind of people that you meet, it's funny like being on a. We did a lot of live aboard scuba diving and you might. You meet just some fun, great, really nice people from all around the world scuba diving and you share a passion and. And what you can learn about the ocean and sustainability as part of that and ecology. It's a fascinating area. Yeah, it's one of those things that I wish I knew that existed as a profession when I was a kid and maybe I'd have gone a whole different direction.
- [16:25]
A
Does Lucy dive as well?
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B
Yeah.
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A
Oh, cool. Wow. All right. How about your kids? Have you started to bring them here?
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B
Yeah, you can certify as Haddy certification at the age of 10 and my first daughter is certified. My youngest has just turned 10 and we're hoping to do her certification in the next couple of months. Yes. The master plan that we can get back to scuba diving for a long time coming.
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A
Yeah. Very spiritual too.
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B
Very peaceful. Very in that there. There's nothing else when you're down there is just nothing else that you can be doing at that point apart from that. So very in the moment, very present, very mindfulness.
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A
Yes, mindfulness. Okay. You go back in time. What would you tell your 20 year old self?
- [17:15]
B
Gone.
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A
That was like last week for you look like Hugh Grant too by the way.
- [17:19]
B
Yeah, I'm not sure about that. Probably I'd probably go. It's simple. Unfortunately my daughter's just coming up to her gc. She's come back to the uk she's had to think about what she's going to take for her GCSE and what I've told her is probably what I do tell my 20 year old self which is just do something you enjoy.
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A
Yes.
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B
Just do something you're passionate about. It's I'm afraid it may not be original insight but it is that classic do something that you enjoy and you'll never work a day as they I'm lucky in so much as funnily enough the Iot route took me in a great direction and what we did actually been really lucky and I think you probably get this as as well and even though we were in it going down the healthcare route in it actually was incredibly fulfilling because you saw what people were able to achieve with your technology. Not necessarily I was going in and achieving things. One of my favorite stories which makes me well up even when I wait when I tell it was working with I think it was Children's of Philadelphia and it was while I was at to VMware and they put in a system with Workspace One managing the iPad devices and the CIO there had to be very thoughtful about how they designed couldn't have cables because there was potential of suicide risk in certain patient rooms. But he told this story of through the iPads that he'd been able to put into patient rooms. He had one story of a child that bonded with his estranged father at 2am in the morning over a basketball game that they put onto the iPad to help distract the kids that were in there keep them occupied. There was research that being able to keep them occupied and distracted lowered the need for medication and that was why they did this. And yeah this child bonding with an estranged parent over this game on this device. So it wasn't anything I did but it was the CIO taking the solution and feeling that maybe I played a little part in a really good thing there. And some of the. I'm sure you have stories as well that you got back from customers, but I've found this healthcare a very fulfilling.
- [20:00]
A
From that aspect the journey. Yeah, no, amazing. No, it's really important. I, I think that for me, for healthcare in particular, and Improvado is my first foray into healthcare, my first experience and I'd done 10 previous companies in all different industries and we'd always look at healthcare as a vertical, but they were always five years behind everybody in terms of technology. And I typically, I'm in emerging technology all my career and when High Tech and Ara came along in 2009 through the Obama administration, the thesis was there's going to be a forklift upgrade to the infrastructure based on all the funding. Now it's available because of meaningful use. And so that was the genesis for the market entry strategy for Improvada. And what I found was that I thought I knew and I had no clue what health care was all about. And I love this because people ask me all the time, how do, how are you so successful in health care? And it's, you have to go all in and you have to be willing to take everything you've learned previously and throw it out the window because healthcare is so different. It's so different. And you have to serve alongside your healthcare partner very much. Right? You can't, it can't, it cannot be transactional. If it's transactional, you'll never succeed in healthcare. And so that shared mission is real. And that's what gets me excited because we're all patients, we all know patients, right? And if you're mother, father, sister, brother, aunt, uncle, friend are hooked up to a machine, life saving machine and it gets hit with a ransomware attack or some systemic risk, now it's personal, right? And that was the whole impetus behind obviously this podcast, but sense in that. And so I love that, that, that point you bring up because it's so true and it's really the. For listeners that are looking at getting into health care, it's something that really consider because it's unique, you're not going to find it in any other industry, in my opinion.
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B
Yeah, I agree. I agree.
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A
Awesome. Awesome. All right, we talked about that. I've got to ask you this question. Risk Never Sleeps podcast, you talked about diving, but I know you're a risk taker. What other. What's the riskiest thing you've Ever done James Millington in your life. Riskiest thing. Don't think too hard.
- [22:05]
B
I was going to say I should. I feel like I should have prepared for this.
- [22:09]
A
No, it's okay. It's okay. Did we jump out of a plane? Risky dive.
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B
Leaving Citrix to go to work for Improvata.
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A
Oh, that was that. Come on. That was.
- [22:21]
B
No, it's a cliche thing for me to say. Would be the diving would be a shark dive. But then that part of what you learn in the education is that for all the most part and if you're. There's a life lesson there, if you're educated, then going on a shark dive in the right conditions, with the right type of shock in the right kind of place at the right kind of day isn't a risk whatsoever.
- [22:43]
A
Yeah, that's true.
- [22:44]
B
Very small. So, yeah, that would be the easy answer, but also the most factually incorrect.
- [22:51]
A
We'll come back to that. We'll come back to that because I'd be able to help you. Hardest lesson in your career, not taking.
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B
Not double checking information, which is a. The. It's the classic trust but verify.
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A
I was going to say that. Yeah, exactly.
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B
The. The classic on that. It's a silly example, but it's the one that. That comes back at me and it's very much an IT and software piece and releasing a piece of software that we did and going to check in with the. The downloads team on what we. What the downloads were and being told we'd had 50,000 downloads of this software in 24 hours. This was. I won't say when it was, but it was a while ago. Exactly. That kicked off. Oh, my God. Have we got the technical support to deal with this? Have we got the resources? Have we got the. Turned out the IT guy got his numbers way wrong and it caused a massive chain of events which were the right events for customers. The potential customers that we thought had all downloaded this software and were all installing it. And it wasn't improvised, by the way. But yes, just taking that it caused a massive amount of work for people.
- [24:02]
A
And unnecessary anxiety, PTSD and everything else that comes along with that.
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B
It really was. It caused a lot of. Yeah. Resources to be utilized in a way. And yeah. Getting a little more into the data checking if something. It's the classic. If something sounds a little too good to be true. It probably is.
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A
Yes. I say that all the time.
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B
Yeah, all the time. That was my biggest lesson.
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A
All right, we're going to go to you back to your question around risk Your biggest risk. And I'm going to share my screen here.
- [24:34]
B
Oh, no.
- [24:35]
A
Oh, does that look familiar, James?
- [24:37]
B
Does that look familiar even look like me?
- [24:40]
A
And that is not Hugh Grant. I love. That's one of my favorite photos of you. Tell listeners what that photo is. James Millington.
- [24:49]
B
Okay. One improviser had a great culture. Probably still does. Don't take that. And one of the things that Improviser had was effectively a house band which was fun times, which we created. Singers in that band were a certain Mr. Ed Gordette.
- [25:08]
A
Call me a singer. More performer.
- [25:11]
B
Well, he did have to pass the audition.
- [25:14]
A
Yeah.
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B
About five minutes before going on stage. So this was fun time. Yeah. I was the other singer in the band. It was a great time. Great time.
- [25:24]
A
Yeah.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And of course, here's another photo of you. Okay. With Kenny. You're probably singing a neighborhood song or something like obscure Letters to Cleo, I think.
- [25:36]
B
Yeah, maybe. Fun times.
- [25:38]
A
That was a good time. Right? We got one.
- [25:41]
B
I know. My mind went to. When you said earlier it was going to be a surprise. My mind went to. He has the pictures, but.
- [25:48]
A
Oh, I have a lot of pictures. These are the ones I could show. All right, here's another one. Oh, tell the folks what that is.
- [25:56]
B
You may not recognize him, but that is Ed. The grand finale of the sets that we did.
- [26:03]
A
Yes.
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B
Ed got a theme of basically dressing up. So I. There was the big ending number. Was it All Night Long or.
- [26:12]
A
Yeah, Rock. Yeah, it's just. What the hell is the name of that song? It's a KISS song.
- [26:15]
B
Yes.
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A
I Want to Rock and Roll All Night. Rock and Roll.
- [26:18]
B
Yes, that's the one.
- [26:19]
A
Rock and Roll All Night Party Every Day. Which we did back.
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B
A lot of pet photos.
- [26:28]
A
There's a lot of photos and a lot of recordings too, James, which we won't play, but there are recordings and videos. Now this is one of my favorite photos. You have to explain this one.
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B
Oh, God. I can guess.
- [26:40]
A
Really? I don't think so. What do you think it is?
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B
Does it involve coconuts?
- [26:44]
A
No, James. Okay, good. I've deleted that positives from that. That's right. That wouldn't work out for either of us. Okay, here we go.
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B
Oh, wonderful.
- [26:58]
A
My good friend Frank Nightum too.
- [27:00]
B
Stories within stories there.
- [27:02]
A
I know.
- [27:03]
B
Yes. That was Frank Nydum and I on tour in Australia with the wonderful Tisa Murdoch. And God, you can date it to the phone. Having dear thoughts and conversations and missing Ed. And that was the picture of Ed is from the.
- [27:18]
A
Is Takapalooza.
- [27:20]
B
Thank you yes, yes. In a stolen jacket. If I.
- [27:24]
A
That was a stolen jacket off of someone's back when I actually could fit into a coat that small. If you were. I barely could fit into that one. But that was tight, I remember. And I think that was the night. Also, I partied with Jonathan Bush, I think. Was that the same night?
- [27:39]
B
Either that or the Judy Faulkner.
- [27:41]
A
Oh, I think those are the same. I think actually those were the same nights. I think those are the same nights. Yeah.
- [27:47]
B
DIN listeners, if you want more information on the Faulkner episode.
- [27:52]
A
No, no, no, Judy's awesome. No, Judy's awesome. We talked about science fiction authors for a while before the dancing, of course. All right, okay. So let me just stop sharing this wonderful times.
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B
Wonderful. This industry has been very kind to us.
- [28:10]
A
It has. We've had a lot of fun. World or not. We can't do half of the things we used to do. All right, now I can ask you the next question. So the riskiest thing is probably getting on stage, right, and performing in front of 300 or plus more of your peers. You're on a desert island, five records, album, CDs, whatever you want to call these days. What would you bring? I'm terrible at no Greatest hits either. No greatest Hits.
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B
So no. Oh, God. I am just terrible at Recall. I've always been a huge Prince fan. Prince, yeah.
- [28:42]
A
Yes, that's right.
- [28:43]
B
Yeah. Big Prince fan.
- [28:45]
A
Yes. Nice.
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B
So I'd probably go with Sign of the Times.
- [28:53]
A
Nice. Okay.
- [28:54]
B
I'm going with that mainly because I get a double album.
- [28:57]
A
You do, that's true. That's a good way to play it. No, no greatest Hits, though.
- [29:01]
B
But that's for any Prince fans that are listening going, what about Crystal Ball? You get a triple album. That's true. But I'll go with. I'll go with Sign all the Times.
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A
Yeah. You don't want too much Prince on the island. You don't want too much Prince on the island.
- [29:12]
B
Yeah, exactly. I think you've probably got to put a little bit of Led Zeppelin in there. I've been paying desperately to the.
- [29:20]
A
To just tell me a song and I'll tell you the album.
- [29:23]
B
See, but I'm terrible at record. Oh, but I'm gonna take Led Zeppelin 3. I think I remember the conversation I. I listened through.
- [29:30]
A
And that's an acoustic heavy. Acoustic heavy, yeah. Very introspective. Gallows polls on that. Thank you. Or what else is on there. Immigrant Song is on there, too.
- [29:42]
B
I'm terrible at Recall, but I was a house music DJ in London in the late 90s and early 2000s.
- [29:52]
A
Pulp. Am I getting a Pulp?
- [29:54]
B
No, house music. Okay, Not Pulp, but there's some classic house music tracks that, again, very evocative of a certain time and memories. And there's some. There's a classic song called. Which almost nobody listening to. And if you have, then please post in the comments. There's a. An old song called. It's by Asher, and it's called J. Tripping, and it has a Janis Joplin sample.
- [30:21]
A
Oh, will you send that to me, please?
- [30:23]
B
Yeah, sure.
- [30:24]
A
Yeah.
- [30:24]
B
Which is terrific. So I would have that on there. That's three. But two of them are albums.
- [30:31]
A
Okay, that's it. Okay. I'm surprised you didn't mention one. One of my favorites. One of your favorites. I know. And this is if you're still listening. This is the fun part of our episode right now, James, because you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna do acapella, you and me.
- [30:48]
B
No, we know.
- [30:49]
A
Yes. Champagne supernova. Dude, no. Yes, we're doing it right. No, we're gonna do it right now. Who cares? You have a beautiful voice. No, I suck. I suck. But I'm gonna add harmony on the chorus. Come on. How many spit? Come on, let's do it. Let's do it right now.
- [31:04]
B
Oh, God.
- [31:05]
A
Come on. Just do it, guys.
- [31:06]
B
Ready?
- [31:07]
A
One, yeah.
- [31:07]
B
Three, four. How many special people change? How many lives living strange? Where were you while we were getting high?
- [31:18]
A
Are we walking down? Keep going. Come on. I'm gonna do the course. Keep going.
- [31:21]
B
Faster than a cannonball.
- [31:24]
A
Where were you? Someday you will find me beneath the landslide and a champagne supernova in the sky you will find me caught beneath.
- [31:42]
B
The landslide in a shed.
- [31:48]
A
A champagne Beautiful. Look at that. See, that was easy, right? Dude, you still have a great voice, man. No, I. I miss our times together. And for listeners, guests, we'll do the.
- [32:04]
B
Version of your song.
- [32:06]
A
We've done that. I'm just gonna say. I was gonna say for listeners. James and I for many years would end up after hours at a karaoke bar. And we were known to. To do for Elton John. What's that?
- [32:20]
B
That's Annie, Carrie.
- [32:21]
A
Oh, yeah, Annie. And we found all types of karaoke Guevars, but yeah. Ellen, John, your song. One of our. One of my favorite duets that we would do. But I also like champion Supernova. Although James would get pissed when I sang chorus because he'd always look over at me. Stop singing.
- [32:36]
B
I. I mentioned Ned had to audition rehearsals. He'd been really flat. So before we Actually went on stage. I made him do it in the car park before we went on. Oh, he sang it and then at the end of it went. Did you just audition me? Yep.
- [32:52]
A
Remember that? Actually, I was always good for a Roadhouse blues, though. I was always. I could always belt that one out. Everything else was. Was terrible. I went back and I've got. Found all the videos. John Ellis also sent me a bunch and I wanted to see. I wanted to see the one where I did Little Help My Friends, because that was the one that just plagued me and haunted me for years. I listened to it. It actually wasn't bad. I think at the time I thought it was a complete disaster.
- [33:18]
B
But the recordings always sound terrible. I watched something today. We had the house band in Munich and they were phenomenal. Got radar of the band, just fantastic. And I watched clip it of the video to D. It was like, ooh, did I know that sounded great on the night.
- [33:34]
A
Yeah. Recording.
- [33:35]
B
That's my excuse. Not sticking to it now.
- [33:38]
A
D. You're not in the band now, I take it. No. That our friend Frank Nidum is.
- [33:43]
B
I know. Yeah. In Jersey.
- [33:46]
A
I know.
- [33:46]
B
I'm so chill. Great. I'd love to go see that.
- [33:50]
A
Frank, if you're listening. Keep going, man. Keep going. It's only rock and roll, but we love it.
- [33:56]
B
Yeah. We love our mission.
- [33:58]
A
Frank, we do miss you. Yes. All right, so any last comments for individuals coming out of school, trying to break into healthcare or cyber or.
- [34:06]
B
It's just again that. That area of do something that you love. I was listening to something today which is make yourself unique. Find something that makes you stand out. I finding. And maybe it's just a personal view. I'm seeing a generation that's come through that does not want to stand out. That does. Wants to look the same, sound the same, be the same, not stand out. And it's. You've got to find something that makes you a little bit unique, that makes you stand out. Maybe again, there's an element here of probably both myself and Ed is what we are slight show offs. We'd like to put ourselves out there. We like. I love.
- [34:57]
A
What according to you, little. Little quirky, a little weird, little stages of Risk.
- [35:02]
B
I love that.
- [35:03]
A
I did too. I loved. I got to admit, I loved it. I loved. I didn't love all the band drama that we had, but I did.
- [35:09]
B
Well, that was horrific.
- [35:11]
A
If you're in the band and you're listening to this, shame on you.
- [35:14]
B
No, just kidding. How bands.
- [35:17]
A
I'm just kidding. No, that's what made it though.
- [35:19]
B
Whoever stay together for.
- [35:21]
A
I know, it's amazing. I. I know, it really is.
- [35:24]
B
But find that thing that's unique about you that you love, that can be a quirk, that can be something that is a reason that people are going to employ you and notice you and.
- [35:36]
A
Yeah.
- [35:36]
B
How? Embrace your weird.
- [35:39]
A
Embrace your weird. Yeah. Embrace your dread. Embrace your weird. I love it.
- [35:42]
B
Yeah.
- [35:43]
A
Why your freak. Freak flag, right? Yeah, whatever. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. Be authentic. Be authentic. Figure out what that means. Be it. And I love that. Great way to end. I will say though, I did the drama. I knew that every band had drama and for me that made it real. Like the Dr. I'm like. @ one point I remember it was still tense. There were moments that were tense, but I just remember thinking, wow, this means we have a band because there's so much drama now.
- [36:08]
B
Yeah. That's another potential lesson of. Yeah, you can find things that you love with great people, even if what you're doing is not necessarily what that it's meant to be.
- [36:21]
A
They. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And it's so funny when a house band, you find people that in different departments who you wouldn't have had a chance to really get to know and meet and, and. And everyone loves music you find. And most people, or some people will play instruments and when it's just. It's such a good time to do that.
- [36:38]
B
Yeah. Yeah. There's a. It's funny. So there's two. Two things I know you've got to the end of two two story one, one of the guys that happened to join was brought in as a ringer to that band. Subsequently worked, got a job with Improvato. Well deserved as well. And he's still there?
- [36:56]
A
Yeah, still there.
- [36:57]
B
Great guys. You never know how things are going to work out. And again in that. So a little story in doing fine, finding things that you love and going a little extra mile. I've just employed a guy into my team and he was recommended to me but I went off to try and find information about him and he has a passion for mountain biking and he bought this bike, very cool, almost glutiky bike, but he wrote a review of the bike. He doesn't normally write stuff, but he wrote this review and it was really in depth and it was a really great write up. The manufacturer of the mountain bike saw it, posted it to their website. I in turn wasn't sure I'd got good recommendations. But should I employ this guy? Should I not? I found this blog that he'd written this review that he'd written, and it was great writing. And I knew then that this was something authentic and to him. And he. I knew it because of just the way that he'd written, the quality of his writing. He'd be great, fit into the team, but that was the thing that he wrote for. Not in any way as a job interview, but as a passion.
- [38:08]
A
Yeah.
- [38:08]
B
And ended up impact, kind of the reason that I was able to find him, understand what he's about and offer him a job because of I needed somebody that can rise.
- [38:18]
A
Tapping into someone's passion is a great reflection of that individual, too, and really gives you that depth of what's possible. And I love that point change. That's a really great point. And the story about the hire that we did, we had a lead guitarist, was sick and we needed to practice, and one of the singers, brother in laws, played in the band and was available. So he came in to stand in for the practice and he was so amazed. Not that our lead guitarist wasn't good. This guy was like, just off the charts amazing. And I remember we were talking to him, asking him, what are you doing? He's, oh, I'm just between jobs and I'm looking for something. And I'm like, what do you do? And I'm like, oh, my God, we're going to find you a job. We're going to find you a job. You need to stay in the band.
- [38:56]
B
And we did test engineer.
- [38:59]
A
Yeah. Yeah. And he started off on the help desk. I think he's managing teams now. I think that's a great guy. Amazing guy. Amazing voice. Amazing guitar player, too.
- [39:07]
B
Yeah.
- [39:08]
A
Good times, James. Appreciate your time. Good to see you, my friend.
- [39:12]
B
Likewise.
- [39:12]
A
Yeah. And we have to stay in touch. It's been a while. I'll see you at Vibe and Hymns in health. Are you going to health?
- [39:18]
B
Not health, but vive and hymns.
- [39:19]
A
Okay. All right, I'll see you.
- [39:20]
B
We'll be there.
- [39:21]
A
All right. This is Edgar Def from the Risk Never Sleeps podcast. If you're on the front lines protecting patient safety and delivering patient care, remember to stay vigilant because risk never sleeps. Thanks for listening to Risk Never Sleeps. For the show notes, resources and more information and how to transform the protection of patient safety, Visit us@SenseInet.com that's C-E N S I N E T dot com. I'm your host, Ed Gaudet. And until next time, stay vigilant because Risk never Sleeps.