← Risk Never Sleeps Podcast
Risk Never Sleeps Podcast
Episode #151. Cracking the Hypertension Code: One Patch, No Limits ,with Jay Heimsoth, National Director of Sales at Biobeat
00:41:49
Loading summary
Transcript217 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:06]
B
Welcome to Risk Never Sleeps where we meet and get to know the people delivering patient care and protecting patient safety. I'm your host, Ed Gaudette.
- [00:18]
Welcome to the Risk Never Sleeps podcast in which we learn about the people that are on the front lines delivering patient care and protecting patient safety. I'm Ed Gaudette, the host of our program and today I am pleased to be joined by a new friend, Jay. I'm soft. Did I get it right?
- [00:36]
A
Perfect.
- [00:37]
B
Excellent. Jay, good to see you. We just saw each other in Vegas, baby.
- [00:42]
A
Yes. Great to see you, Ed. Thank you for, for allowing me to join your podcast.
- [00:46]
B
Yeah.
- [00:47]
A
Conversation. Yeah.
- [00:48]
B
I'm excited to dig deeper into your background, your company, a little bit about your origin story, et cetera. So let's just start off by sharing with listeners a little bit about your current role and your current organization.
- [01:02]
A
Definitely. So I'm the national director of sales at BioBeat. We are launching the first and only FDA cleared cuffless blood pressure monitor for the 24 hour blood pressure test. It's a unique product. What really inspired me to join BioBeat is really pretty straightforward. That hypertension, it's the number one risk factor for cardiovascular disease. Nearly 120 million adults in the US suffer from high blood pressure and even according to the American Heart Association, 74% of those people are over uncontrolled. So huge unmet need in one of the largest patient populations in cardiovascular care. You know, so it was exciting for that point. But then even beyond that, you look at it, It's a Class 1A recommendation or the test is a Class 1A recommendation by the American Heart association and the ACC hypertension guidelines. There's existing reimbursement, so you know, the market is set. But that traditional cuff based 24 hour monitor, it's rarely used. It's cumbersome. Patient compliance is terrible. They don't want to wear it. Missing data. Physicians don't like it because it leads to misdiagnosis because huge gaps of data. What was needed was a disruptive technology to come in. So Q BioBeat. And so that alone is just the opportunity that we have to really change that curve of healthcare for these patients is really remarkable.
- [02:17]
B
And what am I putting on if I'm not putting on a cuff?
- [02:19]
A
So if you're not going to put on a cuff, you're going to be putting on. You can see it right here. It's just a patch that patients will wear nice on their chest for 24 hours. It connects to an app on their phone. Exciting. We actually just Launched a digital diary feature. So a lot of doctors, when they do have them take blood pressure measurements over, even if it's serial measurements over two weeks, they want the patient to write a diary, maybe what time they took their medication, if they had any symptoms, if they exercised, different things that they want to track. So that's all built into our platform now. So the patient on their phone can list, I took my beta blocker at 7am or I went for a long walk at noon. But now in the report it's going to have a timestamp of when those events occurred and then you get to see what the effects were. So again, really actionable data now is going to be available for the physicians.
- [03:11]
B
And I assume it also will check for things like arrhythmia or other.
- [03:15]
A
I will say it is. We are specific to blood pressure and heart rate. When you look at the test and how CMS reimburses, they just want what's specifically in that CPT code. And honestly there are a lot of great cardiac monitors out there that are available. You look at IRHM Preventus Bardi. Now Baxter, there's a lot of technology out there for cardiac monitoring is not good technology or there hasn't been for blood pressure. And hence one of the reasons why 74% of those 120 million patients are uncontrolled. So again, right for disruptive technology to come in and help. And Biobeat's the first one to be able to figure it out to, to have a FDA cleared device for that test.
- [03:58]
B
I love that. Now do I have to shave before I stick this thing on?
- [04:01]
A
Well, yes. There's certainly just like another adhesive patch where we're, we want good signal. Yes. You have to do a little shave, clean, clean the site. But you know what we get feedback from patients love especially if they've done a traditional cuff based abpm. They look at this as being just so easy. It's a set it and forget it, sleep with it. There's no indication when it takes the measurement. So all in all it is that true? That next step in the evolution of monitoring blood pressure.
- [04:27]
B
Will it work even if I have like a pacemaker?
- [04:30]
A
So yes, even with the pacemaker. Fascinating. The technology has been utilized in 26 clinical publications to date. Most recent was a study that was published by the Mayo Clinic through the Nature's Journal of Human Hypertension. And that was in a ICU setting and it was essentially looked at and compared to Aline. You know what even the FDA considers the gold standard for blood Pressure, Yeah. The device showed the amount of data was remarkable. But in the study that they published, there's between 85 to 92,000 measurements and the BioBee device was 96 to 99% in agreement to the measurement on a beat by beat basis. Wow. A little bit less than 1 millimeter mercury on average difference than the A line. So extremely accurate. Very and very robust.
- [05:21]
B
Validation is one of, I assume there's, it's temporal, meaning you've got a timeline of activity while you're wearing the patch. As an outcome, does it also help in the distribution of drugs? So if I'm taking a blood pressure medium once a day, usually in the morning, if I put this thing on, will it tell me, you know what, you should probably take it once in the morning at half dose, once in the evening and half dose and spread it out. Is it the outcomes like that as well?
- [05:49]
A
That is a fabulous point. And that's actually, that's where we think the future really lies is not just, not just identification or screening or diagnosis of hypertension, but truly the management of hypertension. When you look at, just as you described, the challenge that physicians have is they're, I hate to say they're making their best guess, educated guess, but they're making their best guess of how to best treat that patient. Now with this data they can actually see what the effects were and so they may find out maybe they're over medicating the patient and maybe they can come back or maybe the patient isn't taking the medication at the right time of day. Yeah, well the very interesting study in the Lancet published a couple of years ago, large 60,000 patients, but it was looking at the cuff based measurement or an office based measurement and a 24 hour blood pressure report and the risk of all cause death and cardiovascular death. And the really interesting but not surprising 24 hours is more informative, but amazingly the nighttime blood pressure, that nocturnal blood pressure was six times more informative on that patient's risk for cardiovascular death. So again, if they're doing serial measurements at home with the standard cuff, they're never going to take it while they're sleeping.
- [06:58]
B
I wonder if the time of meds was correlated to that. Like meaning that you took your meds in the morning, by the time you went to bed you'd flushed them out.
- [07:05]
A
Of your system and that you're exactly right because you'll have there's other half life to that medicine.
- [07:10]
B
I don't want to be right here because I'm talking about me now, right oh, my God.
- [07:15]
A
But that's where this information is really truly valuable.
- [07:19]
B
Yeah. Cool. No, it's good. Interesting. So how did you get involved with this? What was your.
- [07:24]
A
It was someone that I've worked with in the past, a recruiter that had been working with BioBeat really did the introduction. And the nice thing is since we both have worked with each other in the past, there's that level of trust and yeah. Understanding of who is a good fit for these opportunities.
- [07:40]
B
You want to give a shout out to the recruiter.
- [07:42]
A
So it was Mike Moore with the Mullings route. Someone who is a good presence on LinkedIn.
- [07:48]
B
These recruiters never get the credit, do they? Like they're behind the scenes, build teams that people do. They build teams, they broker trust cost, like you said, right?
- [07:58]
A
Yes.
- [07:58]
B
We don't give recruiters enough credit.
- [08:01]
A
No. And there's. There's a big difference between the ones that really work for it and on are. Yeah. Skilled at the. What they do versus ones that just generate a lot transaction oriented.
- [08:12]
B
They just care about getting the deal done. They don't really care about the people on either end of the transaction. We don't like you. Those people, do we?
- [08:19]
A
No.
- [08:19]
B
Get rid of those people. All right. So interesting background. I did go through your background and holy cow, man, you were a defensive tackle. What the hell with the Kansas City Chiefs. You were holding that back.
- [08:33]
A
You were so I always do want to preface that I was that borderline talent. I was good enough to get an opportunity. I was a free agent with the Kansas City Chiefs, had some minor injuries, went on in reserve with kc, Did NFL Europe that following season.
- [08:50]
B
Nice.
- [08:50]
A
Had my little cup of tea in Nashville. But then at that point decided I was the likelihood of me having a successful career and I look at you need to make it at least four years for it to make it worthwhile. And I just thought my body was taking a beating and I'll probably talk a little about that as well soon. But decided to get a real job and I knew I had more to give than just. Just that.
- [09:13]
B
Do you still stay in touch with the organization?
- [09:15]
A
No, not really. More on the college side. I went to university.
- [09:19]
B
Iowa, not Texas A and M. No.
- [09:22]
A
Kurt Warner was my famous or most famous teammate. Yeah. Oh, you know. But here's uncle guys from that. From the time I was here that had played significant time in the NFL.
- [09:32]
B
My brother's probably watching this going, my brother knows nothing about football. Why is he talking to you about football? If Mark was on doing this interview, man, he would be all over. He knows football like nobody's business. But I have noticed the Kansas City Chiefs in particular are having a difficult year this year.
- [09:49]
A
It's interesting on at that level what the effects of injuries to talent. And there's some correlation to what we do in building culture and teams. When you have certain individuals that you count on and are part of that core culture, that core team, when they're gone, they're missed and you can get people to fill in, but it's just not quite the same. And. And those holes are very. They're very visible because talent in the NFL is high and it does not take much to. From the number one team to the last team in the league. The. That whole. Any given Sunday is true. Uh, great. Great movie.
- [10:29]
B
Best. So debate. Best movie. Football movie. Or was North Dallas 40 the best football movie?
- [10:36]
A
If you think about the Nick Nolte.
- [10:38]
B
Come on.
- [10:39]
A
Oh, yeah. The hard part is just the. The production value that they have today versus yeah, but in terms of like setting the standard and setting that criteria of what counts for a great sports movie. Yeah, that one is definitely one of.
- [10:54]
B
The greats as such a. It was such a great decade of movies as well. So I have another theory. I have a hypothesis of the demise of Kansas City Chiefs. I call it the tse. You know what that stands for?
- [11:06]
A
No.
- [11:07]
B
The Taylor Swift effect.
- [11:10]
A
You're probably not wrong.
- [11:12]
B
Come on, Kelsey, catch a ball, for God's sakes. What are you doing?
- [11:15]
A
Amazed at the people that were. You used to be Kansas City fans but are now turned off just by that attention and get it. But yeah, yeah, it's. It is. It's an interesting phenomenon for a NFL football team and just the whole NFL in terms of the number of fans that they generated just because of that.
- [11:33]
B
Yeah. No, it's. You can't debate her talent, though. She's amazing.
- [11:36]
A
Oh.
- [11:36]
B
I have three daughters, so I have to say that even if I didn't believe it, I'd still have to say yes. As Jay. I'm a Deadhead, so.
- [11:43]
A
Oh, yes.
- [11:44]
B
That's my band. We're gonna get to music in a second.
- [11:46]
A
Yep. Yeah, I laughed at that. Some of the potential music or movies that we'll talk about.
- [11:54]
B
When I always think about my experience, I always draw from lessons I learned through my experiences over time. Do you look back on your football career and draw from that at all? Like when you're. Is there anything you still think about or tie back to?
- [12:08]
A
So there. There's, I think, great lessons. It's all about how you Frame it, what you're willing to learn from these lessons. And I'll just say, I've had friends that they go into. They went into depression after their football career is over because they tied so much into it. Where I looked at it more, you get a C. The difference between. Of what the elite do, to be elite, because at that level, everyone has talent. And yes, there are physically gifted individuals that are far and above others, but if those that just rely on that talent, they burn out quick. They only may make it a couple years in the NFL just because they don't put in the time and effort. The ones that separate themselves are the ones that are going in. Even though I look at Derek Thomas, he. He. He passed away, actually, the off season after I was there in that. The 98, 99 off season. But he was one where he would come in and do film study and he would work on his cues, finding the little things that he could identify in the offensive lineman or the snap count from the other team to be able to almost move with the ball and just get a step faster than what they would not. I remember that first game that season he had against the Raiders. He had six sacks in the first game. And everyone. I think at that point, I think it was a shutout. I laugh because honestly, that was the year the wheels fell off for Kansas City. But after that first game, they were already talking, oh, they're going to shut out the entire season. Just all these kind of ridiculous things. But the amount of effort that he put in to be even that much better, I think that's the case. That's the same thing. The 10,000 hours to become.
- [13:49]
B
Yeah, there you go.
- [13:50]
A
Glad you brought that up. That you need to put into becoming an expert in. Whatever you do, it pays off if you put it in.
- [13:58]
B
Yeah, yeah. When everyone else is home, you gotta be hitting that sled, right, Jay?
- [14:02]
A
That's right. Yeah.
- [14:03]
B
My claim to fame in football was I played for a team in high school that went 0 and 20.
- [14:07]
A
That's character.
- [14:08]
B
That's character building.
- [14:11]
A
You gotta have some grit to make you do.
- [14:13]
B
It's the definition of my life grit. All right, if you weren't doing this job, what would you be doing? What are you passionate about? What do you do when you're not working?
- [14:21]
A
So I really do love health and fitness. You know, I dedicate a lot of time to my kids, as most fathers do. I have one out of school, one in high school, one in middle school, and they definitely keep me busy. But health and fitness is something that is, has always been a passion of mine. But at one time I was £320. Was really. Oh yeah, that was my biggest. I was tall too.
- [14:43]
B
You're what, six, three, six four?
- [14:46]
A
Yeah.
- [14:46]
B
And sorry to take that inch away from you.
- [14:48]
A
Oh yeah, well, the NFL takes it away too. They like, they try to shrink you, they want to make you, they want to reduce your value as much as they can.
- [14:58]
B
Did you play defensive end at one point too?
- [15:00]
A
Defensive tackle?
- [15:01]
B
Oh, just all tackle all the time. Never in high school.
- [15:05]
A
I was a linebacker in high school and college. Linebacker, loved linebacker. I had a back injury later on then I had to do some things to fix that, but I missed the season. When I came back, they said, hey, we help. Need help in the defensive line. Would you be willing. I'm a player. I said, yeah, that's what's best for the team. Let's do it.
- [15:23]
B
Interesting. Yeah, it's a hard. I played defensive tackle, I played defensive end, but I just wasn't tall enough.
- [15:28]
A
I would have rather played defensive end. I thought that would have been a better match.
- [15:32]
B
But yeah, until the tackle pulls.
- [15:34]
A
Yeah.
- [15:35]
B
Or the guard pulls and you get your clock cleaned. So interesting. So okay, so kids, family.
- [15:42]
A
Yeah. And, but so that I look at if I could find a way. I remember even in college and shortly thereafter I had this idea of. And you're starting to see them where, you know, they're these all encompassing health complexes where they have medical, they have gyms, they have these med spas that have different treatment. But it's this all in one, you know, idea really trying to call the, you know, longevity. Yeah. Health club. But yeah, that's at one time that's what I thought would be really interesting.
- [16:11]
B
Cryogenics, you'd be one of those containers, right?
- [16:13]
A
Yeah.
- [16:14]
B
Chambers.
- [16:14]
A
Yeah.
- [16:15]
B
Nice. I like it, I like it. Yeah, we have, we've got one of those ultra sports centers in town here and they just keep adding on new services, new capabilities. It's incredible. It just keeps growing and that's interesting. Okay, so you go back in time and you could tell your 20 year old self something. What would it be?
- [16:33]
A
Honestly, the biggest thing is work on building patience.
- [16:37]
B
Ah yeah.
- [16:38]
A
A lot of things in my life growing up were actually really easy. I grades were easy, school was easy. Athletically, I had good success. I think you get used to that instant gratification and as. And I'll be the first to admit, earlier in my career I jumped jobs way too often chasing that next thing. And I think if any strong advice, be patient Build a foundation and build that career brick by brick where you're at. And I think that goes a long ways to having a truly remarkable career if you can build that. Now, granted, I. BioBeat's the seventh startup I've worked for, and so I've had a lot of fun doing that as well. Yeah, a lot of those are learning lessons. That's honestly my biggest advice I would give is build patience.
- [17:26]
B
Have any decent exits along the way.
- [17:28]
A
Have had a couple decent. None where it's om.
- [17:31]
B
Changing.
- [17:32]
A
That's BioBeat. BioBeat is going to be there.
- [17:34]
B
Awesome. Yeah, no, it looks cool. And that's obviously not drawn to scale. So it's not like you're putting this huge.
- [17:41]
Thing.
- [17:43]
A
So this.
- [17:43]
B
Oh, there it is.
- [17:44]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [17:45]
B
Nice.
- [17:46]
A
Yeah. So it is not. Not that big. Typically worn on the left side, but there's spatial invariance, so you can actually wear it. Oh, it's cool. But they have a pacemaker and icd. You can put it on the contralateral side. Yeah. Nice.
- [17:58]
B
All right, so you're on a desert island. You could bring five records or movies or both with you. What would you bring?
- [18:05]
A
So I laugh. So honestly, probably one of the first ones I definitely would bring simply because it was the very first cassette tape I got when I had my first boombox as a kid. Nice. Yes. Is Billy Joel. I know why.
- [18:19]
B
Okay.
- [18:19]
A
Absolutely love Billy Joe.
- [18:21]
B
Which one is that?
- [18:21]
A
Like, scene.
- [18:22]
B
Scenes inside the Italian restaurant or that.
- [18:25]
A
What a Stranger. I love that song. So the cassette tape that I got was innocent, man. And I think I could probably sing that entire album word for word. But. But honestly, if I could take the greatest hits with me, I would take the greatest hits because there's.
- [18:38]
B
Have you seen his documentary?
- [18:40]
A
I did see that. Yes.
- [18:41]
B
Incredible, right?
- [18:42]
A
Some of those. The inside look of what was going on at different times.
- [18:46]
B
It's incredible.
- [18:47]
A
Really kind of. You get a different view of what those people, who those people are and what made them to be what they are.
- [18:53]
B
And no different than us.
- [18:56]
A
Yes, exactly. There.
- [18:57]
B
Everyone's struggling with something. Right. Okay, so you got one. What else would you bring?
- [19:01]
A
What other music? So I need something to work out, and again, since I have a limited quantity, I'm probably going towards, like, Guns and Roses, Appetite for Destruction.
- [19:09]
B
Oh, all right.
- [19:10]
A
Nice. Historically, a lot of memories for me growing up, so that's one that. Hey, it's still. For me, it still flips that switch pretty good.
- [19:18]
B
So fun fact. Slash and I have the same birth date.
- [19:22]
A
Hey.
- [19:23]
B
Same day, same month, same year. Yeah. Different coasts. So it's possible we're related.
- [19:28]
A
I don't know exactly. So that's probably one or the second one. Then from there I probably. I enjoy. I played string bass for the orchestra for about what eight and a half years, I think. Who are you? Jay? Yeah. I love classical music too and I don't know like Paco Bell.
- [19:50]
B
Paco Bell can. Yes.
- [19:52]
A
Just.
- [19:52]
B
How about Bach Fug and C. Come on.
- [19:55]
A
Oh yeah. Nice. So many great songs. So that one. Pick out one. Or maybe I could get. And get a comp compilation of the Costco music. Okay then I'm probably. If I'm going to switch. I'm got to have some entertainment for. For movies as.
- [20:08]
B
Yeah.
- [20:08]
A
I always think of you got to have something that maybe is inspiring, has some humor, has some depth to it. But the one that I. I always step brothers very close. Chariots of Fire.
- [20:22]
B
Come on. Nobody wants that movie on a desert island.
- [20:26]
A
The instrument calling you out of accomplishing some great things. Yeah. Is that I find it still to give me chills.
- [20:34]
B
It's incredible. Yeah, I know. That's incredible movie. Oh that and Cast Away. You'd probably get off the island quickly if you had.
- [20:39]
A
I'll tell you. So the funny one that I actually would want because it is this fantastical desert island esque in terms of being stranded. The Flash Gordon.
- [20:49]
B
Oh yeah.
- [20:50]
A
With Ming the Ruler and just. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Just a fun and great.
- [20:54]
B
You're a comic. You're a comic book kid, aren't you?
- [20:56]
A
Oh, I am. Me too. It's funny because they're. They've gotten so incredibly big and spread. But I grew up on Marvel and DC growing up.
- [21:07]
B
Amen.
- [21:08]
A
And loved reading the comic books. Did you ever go to the back.
- [21:10]
B
And like sell the cards for like the different prizes you can get? Remember those things?
- [21:15]
A
I. I laugh. I don't even know. I think all my comics have been. They've been moved on to a. One of my other nieces or nephew at some. But I always wanted to go back and read. All right. Because it's funny some of these stories that they put in the movies. Like I had that comic or you know that came from a comic that I had back when I was 8 years old or whatever.
- [21:34]
B
Were you a Mad magazine reader too or.
- [21:36]
A
Oh, I was. Had stacks and stacks of Mad magazine. Newman. Yeah. Yeah.
- [21:42]
B
I literally. It was funny. I was in a. I was in a bookstore the other day and I. They had this. I don't know this edition where they went back and they had the Jaws or they did the Jaws parody and I remember reading that as a kid. So I bought. I ended up buying it. So I've got this mad mag and my wife's like, what the hell is this?
- [22:00]
A
It's my childhood. Let me add it. That's right.
- [22:03]
B
Give me 10 minutes with my former self. Okay. All right. So Risk Never Sleeps podcast. I'm sure you've got many risky things you've done. What's the riskiest thing you've done?
- [22:15]
A
Well, so I don't know. Like you said, BioBeat is the seventh startup that I've worked for. For. I have three artificial discs in my spine. I have one. And one. My first one was I had to get myself into a clinical trial, one just to get it paid for because Lombard is not easy to recover. I have a wedge of composite bone in my right leg. I've had multiple elbow surgeries. I'm not sure if there's a risk. I haven't liked this. I. I jump in head first on a lot of this stuff. I want to keep going. I want to keep moving. But. So I've not skydive and not really. I wouldn't be against it if someone said, here, let's go skydiving. I would bungee jump. I bungee jumped long ago. Long ago. But, yeah, I've done doing. Oh, I do like hiking and some trails that are a little sketchy sometimes, but a lot of motorcycle fun. Motorcycle. You had five different motorcycles.
- [23:06]
B
What's your favorite?
- [23:08]
A
I've had a head on crash on one. I had. Let's see, I had two fat boys.
- [23:13]
B
Oh, fat boy's a great bike. Oh, yeah. You have any Indian chiefs?
- [23:17]
A
I've not had any Indians. I had a B rod for a while. I had a Hayabusa. That's a very fast bike. Don't know that. So it's a Kawasaki Hayabusa one time, and I don't know if it still is, but it was the fastest motorcycle in production.
- [23:31]
B
Oh, my gosh. How fast have you been? How fast have you been on a bike?
- [23:36]
A
Way too fast. I love that. Well, well into the triple digits, really. But a Buell was also. That was another really fun little sport that was a one that was connected to Harley for a long time, but, yeah, motorcycles. But probably the biggest risk, I think is really I've had a few times in my career where I've had to start from scratch and rebuild. Sometimes digging out of a hole that I dug myself. Yeah. Now having that patience and fortitude to rebuild it. Believe in myself that I'M going to get this done.
- [24:08]
B
No. Yeah, that makes sense. Life is, Life's a journey, though. Like, what's the. Like if, if you had to do it all over again, is there anything you would change?
- [24:15]
A
So I, There's a lot of things I like in my life, so I always go back to. There's lessons that I've learned that I maybe I wish I would have known about or couldn't tell myself just because maybe I could be ahead of what I am today. But honestly, I find it hard to say I would change anything because that may. Who knows what the butterfly effect could be in terms of where I am today. So I would change anything. Yeah, certainly I wish I didn't have to learn certain things the way I have maybe at times. But in the big picture, I can't say that I would truly change anything just for the fact that I have no idea where that would put me today.
- [24:53]
B
Yeah. Yeah. As you look out over the next two years, what are some of the key bringing it back to work, bringing it back to Biob. What are some of your top initiatives? What are you looking to accomplish?
- [25:03]
A
We're really building the team from scratch. Share bio. So a lot of it is building a culture and building processes here. And I think one thing is, and I learned this so many, almost everything I use and we learn from our mentors, our other leaders, our managers that we've had in the past. One of the things that I really liked that one of my former directors we used to say is he wants to build an organization that people are fighting to get into versus one that people are fighting to get out of. And I've been on a lot. People are fighting to get out of. I love that. And so that I want people to be excited about beyond team knowing, hey, we have a lot of hard work to do and this isn't easy, but at the same time, we're a team. We're looking out for each other. We're. We're all in this together. From the CEO to, to the janitors, we're all trying to do the same thing, is build a successful company.
- [25:53]
B
And in a startup, kids, the CEO is the janitor.
- [25:56]
A
Yes. Oh, yes. That our CEO the first year was the only. He was the sales rep. Yeah, I.
- [26:04]
B
Can attest to that. You know, I think with startups, this is my 11th startup, the CEO founders gotta sell the first two dozen deals because quite frankly, you don't really understand customer pain. You don't really understand what the product can and can't do or the service can and can't do. You don't really understand value prop and then you've gotta train people. The mistake I made early on was I took the training part for granted. I just assumed I do this really well, but I don't. I'm not a good salesperson. That's not what I do. So therefore it must be easy. Anybody, a professional salesperson could sell this even better than me. And that's just not the case.
- [26:41]
A
That's the hard part because I think that's what people think. You just get talent and talent is going to win. There's a lot of work to actually get that talent to work together, to all be. Yeah, they'll all be singing from the same song sheet. I'll be working, growing in the same direction. It's hard.
- [26:56]
B
Sales is hard. We can always think of a harder jobs. But yes, when you're doing it, I don't know what's harder than sales. It is a hard job.
- [27:05]
A
You're right. It is one where it's all, you know it. And this is what we hear all the time. Well, if it was easy, everyone would be selling this. So things are good.
- [27:15]
B
Everyone thinks it's something else or it's, how hard can this be? They're shooting fish in a barrel. I'm sure you've heard that.
- [27:22]
A
Oh, yes. I'll tell you what, kudos to you because I do know I am going through. I shouldn't say I am, but BioBeat is going through at least two processes with customers where they're using Senseinet as their it. Oh, yeah. Thank you, Google process.
- [27:40]
B
Yeah, yeah, no, thanks for bringing that up. Yeah, I appreciate that.
- [27:43]
A
No, definitely.
- [27:44]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [27:44]
A
It was funny. I didn't realize that until after we talked. And so I looked up since and I was like, wait a second.
- [27:49]
B
Oh, you didn't know?
- [27:50]
A
Yeah.
- [27:51]
B
I keep these things separate because I don't want people to think like, I'm just having you on as a sales tactic. That's not what this is about. This is much bigger than. Bigger than that. And then again, if it works out and people look me up or they look up sense in that and they come back. And we obviously have had several relationships developed that way, but I just felt like there was a void in the industry to give people a voice that was more than just a professional. I want to know about Jay behind the role.
- [28:19]
A
I want to know about the person.
- [28:20]
B
I've learned so much about you in the last 36 minutes that I wouldn't have known otherwise. I Didn't it's something terrific. Yeah. Really cool. And thanks for sharing your initiatives and building the team. Culture eats strategy all day long. You got to build that culture. Like you said, is there things that you're doing or that Biobeat is doing culturally that you haven't seen that you think, wow, this is really unique, and this is like differentiating from a culture perspective?
- [28:48]
A
No, I think it. It has to do with just standing behind some principles. Right. I think a lot of companies have great principles and great guiding characteristics, but sometimes do they really embody them? Do they really live them on a daily. I think that's the difference between the companies that, again, build cultures that people want to be a part of versus want to get out of. And so, yeah, that's my hope, is that I can. Again, I gotta hold my team accountable. I gotta be held accountable. But at the end of the day is if one, they're gonna appreciate that. And if I'm there showing that, hey, I want to help you be successful. I want to help you grow. I want to. It was one thing I think I've had good success in my career is I've had a lot of people get promoted from underneath me. I like to recognize the success that my team is having, not the success that I had with my team. I want to see people. I've even had a couple people that they wanted to get a job that was outside the company. And I said, hey, I hate to lose you, but that's really what you want to do. Let me help. I. Maybe I know the manager over there. Maybe I can just give you some advice on how to position yourself. And I've had people that have gotten their dream job that way, and then I've had others that were unhappy on the team that they were on. I said, well, the company doesn't want to lose you. Let's just find another place for you that is. Allows you to level up your skill set and still be able to provide value to the company. And so I've had some good success doing that as well.
- [30:16]
B
Jay, you have the DNA of a CEO, whether you know it or not.
- [30:20]
A
It's funny, at one time, if I go back maybe 15 years ago, that's. I used to say, oh, I want to build my career towards maybe being a CEO someday. And I really changed that just for the fact that there's a lot of things that happen and change and come in line that may or may not ever make that happen. I just changed to be. I want to be a strong commercial leader. I just want to be someone that builds good teams and helps people find ways to succeed. So if I.
- [30:46]
B
That's why you'd make a great CEO.
- [30:49]
A
I appreciate you saying that. Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you.
- [30:53]
B
No, it's. Yeah, no, it's really a pleasure to meet you and have this longer conversation. I know we may quickly get. I think I walked by your booth and it turned around, went, hey, what is this thing here? It'd be cool to kind of get my. A picture behind this dummy or whatever.
- [31:08]
A
Oh, yeah, that's right. The little mannequin. Or a little mannequin. That little mannequin. Like that bill. Like the bio.
- [31:13]
B
They call it Biobeat bill.
- [31:15]
A
Is that their name?
- [31:16]
B
I love that.
- [31:17]
A
Yeah.
- [31:17]
B
Biobeat Bill. Yeah, I know. I was like. And then we just started to talk, and I love that. I love when that happens. And it's funny that now you're connected back to sense of that and you're actually, um. Yeah, that's pretty cool. So, by the way, if you guys need any help whatsoever, you come to me.
- [31:30]
A
I appreciate that.
- [31:31]
B
I'll help you out directly. Yeah, yeah, no worries. Last question. Unless, of course, you say something. And we just keep pulling the thread.
- [31:40]
For folks that are trying to break into healthcare, into to biotech or otherwise, what advice would you have to new graduates?
- [31:48]
A
The biggest thing is find those opportunities and find those mentors that are willing to talk to you. It and I. It can be frustrating because there's a lot of us that we get a lot of inquiries and we get a lot of people reaching out, and we're all so busy that sometimes we don't give them the time. But there are those out there that they may just be a sales rep, they may be a manager, they may be a director, they may be a clinical, but they're going to be willing to talk. You got to put yourself out there. You got to do the effort to reach out and tell them you want to learn. You want to find out more about what they do in their job, what are the things that they did to get to where they are, what advice they may have. I think just that is a big thing. Then start following the different industries and companies that you want to get into, Learn about the new technology. If you can find a way to get into a conference, even if it's just buying a visitor badge, attendee badge, just to be able to get into the exhibit hall, go around the booths, talk to the different people at the booths, it is one of those that's. It's not Anything that's going to really truly move the needle in terms of. But the more you do that, the more knowledge you have of where those opportunities lie. Because what you're going to find is there are companies that do look at truly that, that, that entry level sales rep position or sales associate position that are straight out of college that do not have necessarily a career building opportunity that they've already been in that they want to say, no, we want good young talent that we can build ourselves. So finding those companies and the more you network, the more you're going to all of a sudden just these little opportunities are going to start popping up. I think honestly, even though MIKE Moore RECRUITER it was more of a connection through my network that allowed that to happen versus a recruiter reaching out. To me, it was because it's been a network that's been warm for 15 years and it's something that a lot of conversations are even, hey, Jay, I had this opportunity. Do you know of anyone? You know, it's, it is that kind of relationship where it wasn't always that he only reaches out when he has something. For me, it's, hey, how can I. Exactly. It's the same thing for someone just trying to get in is get, build your network. Find people that are really, truly willing to mentor you and give you real advice. Be even though they may not have direct work experience with you, but be willing to be a reference for you and be able to talk to someone about you. Because you can say, yeah, I've been talking to this individual for the last six months. This is what they've done in terms of expanding their knowledge and digging deeper in terms of this market or this technology or this space. They went on and did some LinkedIn, learning sales skills. Oh, I love that. Yeah, those are the things that can separate you and put you apart. Because at some point someone's going to say, you know what? I see you hustling. I get this is a risk, but I'm going to take a chance at you. And I'll give one example and he wasn't, in my opinion, I don't think he was a big risk, but he was an individual. No industry experience, but had a lot of experience in the lab, ran a whole department with 50 plus people underneath him. He managed but also started several ASCs and OBL labs with doctors. So a lot of great experience but no industry experience. And initially I got a lot of negative feedback from my leadership on ah, we don't know if he's the right person. He's a risk. And I said, no, I believe in this guy. Let's hire him. Came on board within maybe nine months. The sales rep in one of the territories that he was helping cover as a clinical left. So we had an opening. He wanted the job. And I was like. And I told him, I said, there's no way I'm going to get you past the next level. Regardless what I think of you, I'm not going to get it. You approved to hire. Told him no. Came back with a business plan, Walked through a good business plan, told him no again and again. We were struggling finding good quality talent too.
- [35:47]
B
I love this story.
- [35:48]
A
But then again came back a third time. I think I maybe even told him no a third time. And finally we were at the point where I had enough conversations with my management team and said, hey, he is hustling. He is persistent. He hasn't gotten frustrated. He continues to. He has grip. And he was running as a clinical. He was running the territory as a sales rep. Wow. So showing that he could do the job and actually it was. We were having more success out of that territory within doing so ended up was able to get him promoted to a sales rep. I within. I think it was his. I don't think it was his second year, but I think it was his third year. He was president's club and then he hit president's club three years in a row and was number one on multiple different products. They had a bunch of different products, but multiple different product lines. He was the number one rep. It was more of a yes. He was the right guy to one challenge and then two, he, to your point, had the grit to just keep coming back and find a way and then he delivered.
- [36:54]
B
It's so interesting because I find so many. There's a 1% of candidates that actually do the work, come in prepared, come in to critically think and actually have a conversation, not an interview. And those are the people, like I want. Like, those are the people you hire, even if they don't necessarily have the direct skill, but they've got desire. And you can't teach desire.
- [37:16]
A
No.
- [37:16]
B
Teach skill, but you can't teach desire. No. That's a really great story. I love that. Yeah. So. So the lesson is, kids, you got work to don't just wing it. I've seen so many people just winging it the last minute. I have an interview in three hours. Can you help me prepare? Are you out of your mind?
- [37:32]
A
Like Chad GPT, right?
- [37:35]
B
Yeah. Which again, think about it. They've got chat to Prepare. I can imagine if we had chat at the top like the work that we had to do to prepare like it should. I remember I wanted a job so bad and they kept telling me no. And I worked up this, I don't know, 12, 15 page report on my own dime where I went out, I did a competitive analysis, I called customers and I put it in a report and said here. And I was a marketing job at the time, product marketing job. Here's what you need to be doing. And they're like, oh my God, like no one's ever done this. We just need to die with this guy. We'll figure it out. I just think if you put the work in, you're going to stand out.
- [38:18]
A
I'll give you one example about myself on that same thing is was interviewing for a regional manager, regional director job. And this was when I was having my two level cervical disc replacement done right at the same time. And I was like, I don't want to push this off. And I knew when my surgery was, I knew when the final interview was. The final interview was going to be a five and a half hour panel interview where at the end of it I had to give a 30 minute presentation on a. Basically a made up scenario of what I would do to take on this new team and all the challenges they had. And so four days after my surgery I flew to Atlanta from Texas. After two level disc replacement. I had a little patch over where the scar, you can still see the scar. I remember in my suit I have my presentation ready. But as I get there, one of the VP of sales was someone that I knew and I'd worked with and just said had some highs and hellos. And he goes, oh, what'd you do? Cut yourself shaven? And I said, no, actually I had two level disc replacement done just four days ago. And he's like, should you even be here?
- [39:26]
B
Exactly. That's what I would have said.
- [39:28]
A
This is important to me. I said I'm ready and let's go. And he goes, man, you're, you might be crazy. I said, hey, you got to be crazy to, to do this job that's knocked out of the park. The presentation was solid, got the job. Nice. Yeah, nice.
- [39:44]
B
And when Norman collapsed for like four.
- [39:46]
A
Weeks, I was went home and it's well celebrated.
- [39:50]
B
Oh, I can't even imagine. You're like the bionic man.
- [39:52]
A
It's. Yeah, it is funny on. And I always, I look at, okay, what's the leading technology that's available at the time to allow me to preserve motion and allow me to continue to enjoy the things that I want to enjoy because fusion is always an option, even my lumbar. But I was like, no, don't want to get fusion. I want to preserve my mobility. And that was why I found a way to get into a clinical trial is a continuation portion. But got the disc, got these. And I still, I'm very active, keep working out. And people are probably saying there's remarkable in terms of what you can still do if you.
- [40:27]
B
Yeah, I think I made some smart ass comment when I met you. Like you got great posture, not knowing like, like level.
- [40:36]
A
It's. But that's, that's all part of it is trying to keep, keep this thing all together.
- [40:41]
B
It's hard. Every year you lose another quarter of an inch and I suspect I'll be five, two at some point. I don't know, just, I like to hang from a beam and just stretch out. My wife's like, you're pulling down the trim.
- [40:55]
Like it just hammer back up. Jay Heimsaw, thank you. Thank you so much for this incredible session on the Wrist Never Sleeps podcast.
- [41:05]
A
Ed, thank you.
- [41:06]
B
This is Ed Gaudette from the Wrist Never Sleeps podcast. And if you're on the front lines protecting patient safety and delivering patient care, remember to stay vigilant because risk never sleeps.
- [41:20]
Thanks for listening to Risk Never Sleeps. For the show, notes, resources and more information and how to transform the protection of patient safety, Visit us@SenseInet.com that's C E N S I N E T dot com. I'm your host, Ed Gaudet. And until next time, stay vigilant because Risk never sleeps.