Risk Never Sleeps Podcast – Episode #154

The Human Code: Embedding Compassion into Technology, Leadership, and Care
Guest: Dr. Apurv Gupta, Founder and Board Member of A Loving Organization
Host: Ed Gaudet
Date: December 8, 2025
Location: Live at AI Med 2025, San Diego

Episode Overview

The episode features a thoughtful conversation between Ed Gaudet and Dr. Apurv Gupta about weaving compassion—including the principle of “love”—into the fabric of healthcare technology, leadership, and patient care. The dialogue traverses how technology, particularly AI, must be intentionally designed and governed to nurture human values and avoid neutrality drifting into indifference. Dr. Gupta introduces his “A Loving Organization” framework, shares practical approaches to integrating compassion into healthcare systems, and engages in lively banter about burnout, Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, and the role of systems in cultivating love-driven organizations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Meeting Face-to-Face & The Reality of Digital Connections

• [00:33]–[01:10]
  • Ed and Dr. Gupta open with reflections on finally meeting in person after much online collaboration, setting the tone of digital and human experiences blending in today’s professional world.
  • Memorable moment: The warmth of digital friendships crossing into real life, mirroring the humanization they advocate for in tech.

2. The Loving Organization & Integrating Compassion into Healthcare

• [02:08]–[03:40]

  • Dr. Gupta introduces A Loving Organization Consortium, a nonprofit with 75+ charter members from all corners of healthcare, aiming "to bring more love and compassion into healthcare by leveraging the systems of healthcare.”

  • The consortium examines not only “people-based” systems—leadership, teams, community—but also “non-people-based” systems—management, culture, workflows, and crucially, technology.

  • Their framework, “Integrate,” is a nine-system model. When infused with love, these systems yield “love as an output,” but if left default, can foster fear, burnout, and disengagement.

    “When you infuse love into those systems, then you get love as an output. If you operate those systems at default… top down, command and control… you get more fear out of the system.”
    — Dr. Apurv Gupta [03:00]

3. Making 'Loving AI' a Reality

• [03:40]–[04:44]

  • Dr. Gupta explores what “loving AI” could mean—beginning with technologies that reduce physician and nurse burden (e.g., ambient documentation, workflow automation).

  • AI’s empathetic contribution is realized in “making it easier for doctors and nurses”—a direct antidote to burnout and administrative overload.

    “It’s saving doctors two to three hours of pajama time every single day. It’s improving the doctor-patient relationship.”
    — Dr. Apurv Gupta [04:44]

4. Burnout and Monitoring Well-being

• [05:56]–[07:38]

  • The conversation dives into the concept of a “burnout-ometer”— technology proactively alerting staff when they’re approaching burnout much like fitness trackers prompt for movement or sleep.

  • Dr. Gupta describes collaboration with a company (Adelaide Tech) using EHR and HR data to predict clinician burnout and turnover with promising accuracy (~70%).

    “They’re looking at keystrokes, how much time you’re spending in the medical record… about 70% accurate in predicting likelihood of turnover.”
    — Dr. Apurv Gupta [06:38]

5. Human Oversight in Technology Deployment

• [08:44]–[09:39]

  • A humorous story about a massage chair gone rogue segues into a vital point: technology must have humans “in the loop” to safeguard experiences and outcomes.

  • Feedback loops, data collection, and ongoing monitoring are essential in ensuring tech solutions remain aligned with user needs and safety.

    “That’s the problem with AI… There’s a human operator element involved. Without humans, the human leaves. That’s not good.”
    — Dr. Apurv Gupta [08:44–08:56]

    “Someone has to be monitoring this, right? Because you can’t assume that the end user knows what the experience is.”
    — Dr. Apurv Gupta [09:02]

6. The Role of Systems and Holistic Integration

• [09:46]–[13:13]

  • Dr. Gupta explains that while tech is valuable (often perceived as 80% of the solution), it’s only 10–20%—the real transformation lies in processes, policies, and people.

  • His "Integrate" methodology is designed to help organizations see the whole system: “policies, workflows, culture, the people”—not just the tech.

  • The path to compassionate adoption: awareness → capability building → technology as the enabler.

    “It starts with awareness. Secondly,… do I have the capabilities? Right? …Once I know what I need to do… the technology then makes it easier.”
    — Dr. Apurv Gupta [12:00–13:13]

7. Re-examining Maslow’s Hierarchy and the Primacy of Love

• [13:13]–[14:42]

  • Lively banter questions Maslow’s hierarchy for relegating “love” to a higher order, when it may be the foundational need in human and organizational thriving.

  • Ed jokes: “Damn you, Maslow, you’re dead to us.” [13:38]

  • Dr. Gupta points out new thinking suggests love is not a pinnacle, but a base—if love is missing, higher needs may be unattainable.

    “Maybe love is the most basic need, and if you don’t have that, then you’re staircasing all these other needs on top…”
    — Dr. Apurv Gupta [14:27]

8. Early Bonding and Love as Foundation

• [14:42]–[15:43]

  • The hosts reflect on newborns’ first moments—love and connection at birth precedes even feeding, reinforcing love’s foundational role in human development and well-being.

    “When you’re born… after they clean you up and everything… they hand you to the mother… It’s the love… the bonding.”
    — Ed Gaudet [14:59]

    “To love… oxytocin… releases the bonding that happens, releases hormones in the mother and the child that creates that bonding.”
    — Dr. Apurv Gupta [15:09]

9. The Opposite of Love in the Age of AI

• [16:04]–[17:31]

  • AI’s risk isn’t so much hate, but indifference; a lack of love can be compounded by technology’s neutrality unless intentionally designed otherwise.

    “If you think about the threat to love, like, what’s the opposite of love? It’s not hate… it’s indifference.”
    — Ed Gaudet [16:18–16:25]

    “If it’s programmed with love, then you will get a different outcome out of it… the technology itself will be neutral, but ultimately it still has to interface with the human component.”
    — Dr. Apurv Gupta [17:03–17:29]

10. Love as the Foundation for Leadership, Culture, and Outcomes

• [17:31]–[19:37]

  • Dr. Gupta advocates beginning with “the intention of love,” which naturally flows into excellence, quality, and positive organizational outcomes.

  • Systems—including management, processes, and governance—can either foster or inhibit love; “loving systems” are crucial for loving organizations.

    “At least if we start first with the intention of love, and then you add in all the other elements… you’re more likely to get a better outcome because it’s based on the solid foundation.”
    — Dr. Apurv Gupta [17:33–18:05]

    “Systems are another way to access love… Systems are pretty much kind of tapping into collective universal knowledge.”
    — Dr. Apurv Gupta [18:37]

    “That’s what I would say is systems. So we call it loving systems. That’s what helps us create loving organizations.”
    — Dr. Apurv Gupta [19:17]

11. Pop Culture and 'Loving AI'

• [19:28]–[19:40]

  • The discussion concludes with a playful imagining of a “loving” HAL from 2001: A Space Odyssey, cementing the episode’s theme with humor.

    “Hal doesn’t say, ‘I can’t do that, Dave.’ Hal says, ‘I love you, Dave.’ That’s a remake we have to do.”
    — Ed Gaudet & Dr. Apurv Gupta [19:28–19:40]

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “When you infuse love into those systems, then you get love as an output… if you operate those systems in their default…fear-based mode… you get burnout and loneliness and disengagement.”
  —Dr. Apurv Gupta [03:00]

• “It’s saving doctors two to three hours of pajama time every single day. It’s improving the doctor-patient relationship because now doctors can pay attention to the patient.”
  —Dr. Apurv Gupta [04:44]

• “They’re looking at keystrokes, how much time you’re spending in the medical record… about 70% accurate in predicting likelihood of turnover.”
  —Dr. Apurv Gupta [06:38]

• “That’s the problem with AI… There’s a human operator element involved. Without humans, the human leaves. That’s not good.”
  —Dr. Apurv Gupta [08:44–08:56]

• “It starts with awareness… Do I know what I need to do in each of those segments?… Once I know… the technology then makes it easier for me to do it.”
  —Dr. Apurv Gupta [12:00–13:13]

• “If you think about the threat to love, like, what’s the opposite of love? It’s not hate… it’s indifference.”
  —Ed Gaudet [16:18–16:25]

• “If it’s programmed with love, then you will get a different outcome out of it… the technology itself will be neutral, but ultimately it still has to interface with the human component.”
  —Dr. Apurv Gupta [17:03–17:29]

Timestamps of Important Segments

• [00:33] — In-person meeting, reflections on digital/human blend
• [02:08] — Introduction to A Loving Organization & the Integrate model
• [03:40] — What would “loving AI” look like in practice
• [05:56] — Burnout-ometer & technology to flag clinician burnout
• [08:44] — The importance of human oversight in tech and AI
• [09:46] — Holistic organizational transformation vs. technology-centric thinking
• [13:13] — Debating Maslow’s hierarchy: is love really at the top?
• [16:18] — Indifference: The real enemy of love in AI’s hands
• [19:28] — Pop culture riff: “I love you, Dave” (Space Odyssey remake!)

Conclusion

This episode serves as a thought-provoking guide for healthcare leaders, IT professionals, and risk managers on the urgent need to embed love and humanity into increasingly technological and systematic approaches to patient care. Dr. Gupta and Ed Gaudet blend philosophy, practical experience, and humor to argue that technology, leadership, and culture must be intentionally designed to enable compassionate outcomes—starting not just with policies or algorithms, but with a foundational commitment to love. The episode delivers both visionary ideas and actionable advice for anyone striving to build safer, more human-centered healthcare systems.