Episode #170. Building Security From Chip To Cloud In Connected Care, with Florence Hudson, Executive Director at Columbia University

Summary

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Risk Never Sleeps Podcast – Episode #170

"Building Security From Chip To Cloud In Connected Care"

Guest: Florence Hudson, Executive Director, Columbia University
Host: Ed Gaudet
Date: December 18, 2025

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Episode Overview

This lively episode features Florence Hudson, Executive Director of the Northeast Big Data Innovation Hub at Columbia University, as she joins Ed Gaudet and team for a spirited conversation at AIMed 2025. The discussion centers on building trust and security in connected healthcare, spanning everything from digital twins and IoT standards to the integration of AI, the value of mentorship, and the future of interdisciplinary collaboration—all delivered in Florence's trademark energetic, insightful style.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Florence’s Background and Mission

• Aerospace Roots & Healthcare Parallels: Florence describes her journey from NASA and aerospace engineering into healthcare, highlighting parallels in mission-driven work, data-rich environments, and a shared goal: "Keep the humans alive." (03:22)
• Role at Columbia: Executive Director of the Northeast Big Data Innovation Hub, focusing on leveraging data for societal good, spanning healthcare, transportation, and national security. (01:34, 02:54)
• Global Standards Leadership: Vice Chair of IEEE Engineering Medicine and Biology Society; critical role in defining global standards for connected health and clinical IoT. (02:28)

Building Security from “Chip to Cloud"

• Origin of Standards Work: ARM approached Florence at IBM about security for IoT, catalyzing the creation of a "trust and security thing" spanning from hardware (chip) to cloud. (10:28)

• Florence led the development of the TIPS standard—Trust, Identity, Privacy Protection, Safety, and Security—for clinical IoT. The aim: to safeguard humans, data, devices, and institutions across all domains. (02:28, 10:28)

  “Our plan is to have it be ubiquitous and protect the humans, the data, the devices and the institutions going forward across all domains.” – Florence Hudson (02:28)

• Openness & Collaboration: Florence intentionally developed these standards with IEEE to ensure no company ‘owns’ security—“everybody needs to be secure and safe.” (11:28-12:09)

• Scale and Interest: Over 300 collaborators from 33 countries contributed to the standard, reflecting the global urgency for unified approaches. (12:09)

• Awards & Recognition: TIPS standard won the IEEE Emerging Technology Award. (12:29)

Applying Aerospace “Digital Twin” Technology to Healthcare

• Digital Twins: Adapting digital twin methodology (from aerospace and manufacturing) to the human body for precision medicine and remote subject monitoring. (05:35-06:58)

  "We were talking about applying digital twins, which we've used in aerospace... for decades. ...And now applying it to the humans... there's so much opportunity in that." – Florence Hudson (06:02)

• AI and Biomarkers: Exploration of AI in analyzing existing and yet undiscovered human biomarkers.

Mentorship, Inspiration, and Human-Centered Technology

• Mentoring the Next Generation: Florence frequently mentors young engineers, encouraging them to use AI and technology for good, fostering diversity and passion in healthcare innovation. (05:13-05:35)

  "We want all humans, no matter what age, to be inspired and excited about using AI and technology for good in healthcare..." – Florence Hudson (05:35)

• National Student Data Corps: Over 20,000 worldwide leveraging Columbia’s open online data science content, empowering future data and healthcare leaders. (14:02)

Real-World Examples & Emerging Tech

• Exhibit Hall Insights: Discussions on novel health IoT devices, like a sensor-equipped baby doll for respiratory monitoring, highlighting the balance between innovation and regulatory claims. (07:37-09:01)
• UL2900 Security Standard: Florence’s chairing role and Ed’s role commercializing the standard via Censinet, illustrating the connection between academic rigor and industry adoption. (09:47-10:04)

Interdisciplinary and Interplanetary Healthcare

• Projects on healthcare in space (NASA collaborations) provide analogies for social determinants of health, exploring the impact of environmental deprivation on human genomics and health outcomes. (14:25-15:39)

Reflections on Career, Gender, and Inclusion

• Career Advice: “Keep going.” – Florence’s succinct advice to her 20-year-old self. (18:17)
• On Diversity & Women in STEM: Highlights the need to normalize women in science/engineering, noting her books are in the Springer “Women in Engineering and Science” series—“Women can do anything.” (20:58-21:12)

  “When are we going to stop saying that? ...That’s the world I want.” – Ed Gaudet (21:14)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On standards and collaboration:

  “We had over 300 people from 33 countries and 6 continents... because we would say to people, 'Oh yes, we’re working on the umbrella standard…' And they're like, 'Oh my God, nobody’s doing that. We needed it.'” – Florence Hudson (12:09)

• On combining missions:

  “Space is mission based. Healthcare is mission based. Keep the humans alive.” – Florence Hudson (03:24)

• On the importance of mentorship and inspiration:

  “We need to try to inoculate [students] ...with what we know. So they don’t have to learn all the badness.” – Florence Hudson (17:53)

• On digital twins and AI in health:

  “Applying digital twins… now applying it to the humans and bringing all this information, the genome and the exposome and your X-rays and biomarkers. And the biomarkers we haven’t even figured out yet.” – Florence Hudson (06:00)

• On normalization of women in STEM:

  “Women can do anything.” – Florence Hudson (21:05)

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Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment / Highlight | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:34 | Florence introduces her work at Columbia and with global standards | | 03:22 | Aerospace background and parallels to healthcare | | 05:35 | Mentoring next-gen engineers; using AI for good | | 06:00 | Virtual human twins & digital twin technology | | 09:47 | UL2900 security standard & academic/industry bridge | | 10:28 | Origin of the TIPS standards (Trust, Identity, etc.) | | 12:09 | Collaborator scale; winning IEEE Emerging Technology Award | | 14:02 | National Student Data Corps; impact on workforce development | | 15:15 | Interplanetary health research and what it teaches about determinants | | 17:53 | Inspiring & equipping future leaders | | 18:12 | Lightning round: wisdom to younger self; career choices | | 21:05 | Gender, inclusion, and aspirations for the future | | 25:09 | Quantum research initiatives at Columbia |

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Tone and Atmosphere

• Energetic & Playful: The chemistry among host, co-host, and Florence brings a fun, informal energy to deep technical topics. Jokes, personal anecdotes, and friendly ribbing abound.
• Empowering & Inclusive: Florence repeatedly stresses the need for openness, mentorship, and empowerment of all future innovators.
• Mission-Driven: Throughout, the sense of protecting patient safety—and using technology for societal good—anchors every conversation thread.

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Final Thoughts

Florence Hudson exemplifies the multidisciplinary, mission-oriented leadership needed to innovate securely in connected healthcare. Her work—fusing standards development, academic rigor, engineering excellence, and a passion for mentoring—embodies the “chip to cloud” approach essential for safeguarding patients in a hyper-connected world. Her advice to “keep going” and her insistence that “women can do anything” are echoed in her technical, organizational, and cultural contributions.

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How to Reach Florence:

• LinkedIn is best: “As long as you’re polite and you don’t badger me…” (26:59)

Upcoming Events:

• AI in education webinar (University of Chicago), ongoing speaking, and research at Columbia.

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Listen to the full episode for more insightful banter, technical wisdom, and Florence’s infectious enthusiasm for innovation in health and beyond.

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Transcript

[Ed Gaudet]

Foreign.

Welcome to Risk Never Sleeps, where we meet and get to know the people delivering patient care and protecting patient safety. I'm your host, Ed Gaudet.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Hello, everyone. Welcome Back to the aimed 25 insights series podcast brought to you by Senseinet and Outcomes Rocket. I'm so excited to be here with another outstanding guest and of course, my co host, Ed Gaudette.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yo, Saul in the house.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Two days into it and we are rocking it.

[Ed Gaudet]

Punchy. We're punchy.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Today's guests have been extraordinary.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, wow. Incredible.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Today's been just phenomenal.

[Ed Gaudet]

And Florence is going to take us, I think, to another level. What do you think?

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

I'm ready for Florence.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

You guys ready for Florence? Are you guys ready for Florence? Ladies and gentlemen, Florence Hudson, executive director at Columbia University, with us. Florence, welcome to the podcast.

[Florence Hudson]

Thank you so much. This is so fun. You guys are ready. I can tell.

[Ed Gaudet]

Florence and the machine in the house.

[Florence Hudson]

Machine. You got it right?

[Ed Gaudet]

Lawrence Henderson, Brady Bunch.

[Florence Hudson]

Oh, yes.

[Ed Gaudet]

You heard. You didn't like that one.

[Florence Hudson]

People used to call me that mistake. Hudson and Henderson, like, they started.

[Ed Gaudet]

And so that's where my head went.

[Florence Hudson]

Yeah, that's where most people's head used to go. Not our generation, I guess. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know if everybody watches it on N. But yeah, you're not here.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Florence, tell us about you. Tell us about your world.

[Florence Hudson]

Yeah, so I flew in from New York today. So I left the house at 4:30 this morning, which was here. So I tried to nap on the plane. So the good news is I landed early with all this, like, drama. I wasn't sure I was going to get here, but I did. It's a beautiful thing. So I'm from New York. I work at Columbia University, executive director of the Northeast Big Data Innovation Hub, which is in our Data Science Institute. And we're very grateful for our government funding. We're funded by the National Science foundation, the National Institutes of Health, Department of Transportation, darpa, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. And we have a lot of fun doing all things data and helping people use data for good. There's a whole lot going on in there. And I also work on global standards. I'm vice chair of the IEEE Engineering Medicine and Biology Society.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, boy.

[Florence Hudson]

And so I led the development.

[Ed Gaudet]

We're gonna learn a lot today.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Lots of good learning.

[Florence Hudson]

I led the development of a global standard called tips for clinical IoT, which stands for Trust, Identity, Privacy Protection, Safety and Security. We've done books on it, and now we have, like, New things we're gonna do with AI enabled healthcare with TIPS and remote subject monitoring with TIPS and then the energy grid. So our plan is to have it be ubiquitous and protect the humans, the data, the devices and the institutions going forward across all domains. So that's what I do.

[Ed Gaudet]

Mitch Parker over at.

[Florence Hudson]

Of course we do. So Mitch is one of the co vice chairs of the working group. Oh, he's mentioned your name to me.

[Ed Gaudet]

Has he?

[Florence Hudson]

Have I met you at DEF con? Are you a DEF Con dude?

[Ed Gaudet]

No. No. Okay, maybe that karaoke bar we were at that night.

[Florence Hudson]

That wasn't me.

[Ed Gaudet]

You don't cook karaoke.

[Florence Hudson]

It wasn't me. I'm gonna blush, but it wasn't me.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, oh.

[Florence Hudson]

And I'm a rocket scientist by training.

[Ed Gaudet]

What?

[Florence Hudson]

Yeah. So I'm an aerospace mechanical engineer. So it's funny, a number of my aerospace friends are in healthcare now and believe it or not, there are a lot of similarities. It's very mission based. Space is mission based. Healthcare is mission based. Keep the humans al. There's a lot of data in both of them and we want to try to do things for good. So actually the other co vice chair of the working group that we had to develop this standard. Liam Harding, he was a senior technical fellow at Medtronic and he used to work at the Cape. At Cape Canaveral years ago. So he was in aerospace too. So we talk about.

[Ed Gaudet]

Have you been in Iraq yet?

[Florence Hudson]

No. So I have terrible eyesight and so back then. I think you're allowed to wear glasses now. But back then everything had to be perfect. I. They probably didn't know if the glass was connected. So I don't know.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

But anyway, Lawrence, though I do want to tell you, you are on the outcomes rocket.

[Ed Gaudet]

That's right.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

And Risk never sleeps. That's right.

[Ed Gaudet]

That's right.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

So you are.

[Ed Gaudet]

That's right. We combine rockets and risk. That's right. For a better planet.

[Florence Hudson]

Oh, wow. It's like a family of rocket scientists.

[Ed Gaudet]

It is.

[Florence Hudson]

This is so much fun.

[Ed Gaudet]

That's right.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Now you have been on a rocket.

[Ed Gaudet]

That's right. We haven't been an O ring we didn't like. Right.

[Florence Hudson]

That's another story.

[Ed Gaudet]

I know. Talk about risk.

[Florence Hudson]

Yeah. I always told my team I want to about the O rings. Do not wait.

[Ed Gaudet]

And the temperature.

[Florence Hudson]

Everything. The genome and the exposome as we say.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Right.

[Ed Gaudet]

Okay. We've lost Saul.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Again. Again. So many smart people here.

[Ed Gaudet]

So many smart people. That's right. So what have you learned over the last couple days that has.

[Florence Hudson]

I just Got here. Oh, I'm sorry. I just landed today. I think I said that.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, you did say that.

[Florence Hudson]

Yeah, they asked me.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, so we're like your first stop.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Wow.

[Florence Hudson]

After lunch, I met this nice young student from ucla. Really fun. And so we chatted with her.

[Ed Gaudet]

What did you learn from her?

[Florence Hudson]

I learned that she wanted to connect because she's an engineer and she was going to, like, engineering conferences where they show you boxes and screws and rivets and stuff. And she was like, I think I want to go into bioengineering.

[Ed Gaudet]

So she sought you out.

[Florence Hudson]

So we were just sitting at the same table. She was like, oh, I want to connect with you. I'm like, okay, great. I do a lot of coaching and mentoring. I'd love to chat.

[Ed Gaudet]

That's awesome.

[Florence Hudson]

And she's all excited. So that's what we want. We want the all humans, no matter what age they are, to be inspired and excited about using AI and using technology for good in healthcare because there's so much opportunity to do more, to do precision medicine, precision oncology. I'm working on virtual human twins.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah.

[Florence Hudson]

A whole bunch of things.

[Ed Gaudet]

Do you have a twin?

[Florence Hudson]

I feel like I do. Don't you feel? I've had things like I have spare parts in my body. I can beep when I go through tsa, and so I have, like, pictures of parts of my body. I have my medical information, I have my blood information. I have all sorts of stuff in here, don't I? You can't see me holding it up, but it's my skeleton, right? So I can see different things, but it's like Legos. It's not all together yet. So what we're talking about, we've had these virtual human global summits for a few years. We just had another one in New York City and Barcelona. Hybrid, same, Very fun. And we were talking about applying digital twins, which we've used in aerospace and manufacturing for decades. So we know the technology and now applying it to the humans and bringing all this information, the genome and the exposome and your X rays and biomarkers. And the biomarkers we haven't even figured out yet. I think there's so much opportunity in that. And using AI for that, I think would be very interesting. Like, I'll say. So if this ear hurts me a lot, do you think maybe my carotid artery has a problem? You're like. I'm like. I'm just saying, would that be interesting if we figured that out?

[Ed Gaudet]

Is that true?

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Not yet.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh. We don't know.

[Florence Hudson]

Not yet.

[Ed Gaudet]

Could be.

[Florence Hudson]

Could be.

[Ed Gaudet]

And so don't use Q tips, kids.

[Florence Hudson]

Yeah. Yeah. But paperclips are worse.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Wow.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah.

[Florence Hudson]

Just saying.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. You'll burst something there, won't you?

[Florence Hudson]

A range of uncertainty, as you say.

[Ed Gaudet]

Test it until it hurts. Don't test it until it hurts.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

That's a visual. Ouch.

[Ed Gaudet]

I'm so sorry.

[Florence Hudson]

You are punchy. You're right.

[Ed Gaudet]

Well, we're just getting started On a.

[Florence Hudson]

Roll, as we say.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

So, Lawrence, you just got here.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

So what do you want to get out of being here?

[Florence Hudson]

Yeah, Well, I want to meet new friends and learn what they're doing. Like, I went over to the little exhibit. The.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, the hall there.

[Florence Hudson]

Yeah, the outside of the exhibit area. And this guy had this little baby.

[Ed Gaudet]

I saw that on the table. What is that?

[Florence Hudson]

You have a baby here. What it is, it scares me. And it's a real baby?

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

No, it's a doll.

[Ed Gaudet]

No, it's like a doll, but it's.

[Florence Hudson]

It's a little doll. It's like Recessa Annie, but it's Recessa Annie's grandchild. It's about the size of a little teeny. We need. So if you never saw Annie, maybe you didn't.

[Ed Gaudet]

I don't like dolls. Clowns and so anime.

[Florence Hudson]

They have a sensor that they built that actually can identify breathing challenges. It has this little flexible piece in there so they can tell if, like, the chest is compressing and going.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Is it external?

[Florence Hudson]

It's external, yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. Interesting.

[Florence Hudson]

They built the whole thing, and so they have this cute little elasticy thing, and then they have little wires that go. And they built the entire thing for, like, SIDS or. Well, they didn't say that. You have to be careful when you say you're going to stop people from dying, because that's like a really big.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. FDA doesn't like that.

[Florence Hudson]

You have to prove that FDA doesn't like that. But I did say. He goes, well, I said, okay, you shouldn't say that. But. But he did say that you can identify if the child is having a breathing problem, but it's for all ages, so I guess it's. It's easier to carry, like, a little tiny baby than Recessa Annie or. And so that's what. So that's what they're doing. And he was going into the shark.

[Ed Gaudet]

Tank to present Grandma in My Pocket. Who doesn't want that iPhone? Thousand songs in your pocket. I want Grandma in my pocket.

[Florence Hudson]

It's a whole new idea to play.

[Ed Gaudet]

It is all new.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

The idea was born here.

[Ed Gaudet]

I'm getting a digital twin called Grandma in my pocket, and I'm gonna. I don't even know what to do now. I might start drinking again.

[Florence Hudson]

I said, you have. Is that vodka? It looks like.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

No, it's not.

[Florence Hudson]

I like, look at.

[Ed Gaudet]

My hands are shaking. Lawrence, you're killing me.

[Florence Hudson]

I don't mean to. This is a health conference. We're supposed to stay alive, so. And so he was going into the shark tank, but I asked him because I work on these security standards with Mitch Parker and Hardy, ken Fuchs and 300 other people around the planet.

[Ed Gaudet]

By the way, did you work on the UL29?

[Florence Hudson]

Yeah, I was chair of the working group.

[Ed Gaudet]

You were? Okay. Yeah. So I took it and commercialized it. Well, yeah. Senseinet. Senseinet, yeah.

[Florence Hudson]

Oh, you're sensing it.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, I'm sensing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm the founder CEO of Sense.

[Florence Hudson]

Oh, my God.

[Ed Gaudet]

I do a podcast. I. Well, my. Nice to meet you. Oh, how fun. Is this godmother in my pocket?

[Florence Hudson]

Well, thank you.

[Ed Gaudet]

Even better than the grandmother. Yeah.

[Florence Hudson]

Godmother.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, yeah, Godmother's better protection people we meet on these podcasts.

[Florence Hudson]

So that is my fault. 2933.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, very good. Yeah.

[Florence Hudson]

So I am. So the background of that is that I was a VP and a cto, and then I was in corporate strategy at IBM. And when I was there in strategy the last time I was there a few times, ARM came to us. You know, the guys who make the IP for the design of the cute little chips, I call them Intellis, I think chips, and they have cute little ones that go in the. And they said, we think we should talk about trust and security for IoT because we're down here in the cute little chip thing. You're up there in the cloud and everything in between. And they said, great idea. Talk to Florence. She's a rocket scientist. Like, okay. So I got to work on them. Standard. Yeah, standard. We don't know what to do. They used to say, call the rocket scientists. So it was. And so we envisioned this 10 trust and security thing. And then I retired from IBM. Flunked retirement, became the senior repeated Chief Innovation Officer.

[Ed Gaudet]

Flunked retirement, too.

[Florence Hudson]

I keep doing that.

[Ed Gaudet]

How did you flunk it that month?

[Florence Hudson]

I immediately became a senior VP and a Chief Innovation Officer at another company that month.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, you know how you give yourself a shot. It took me a year to cause enough trouble to get thrown out of the house.

[Florence Hudson]

It was terrible. And then I did it again. And then I Started my own little consulting firm. But in the meantime, I brought this, this, this idea out because I wanted it to be very open. I didn't want a company to own it because everybody needs to be secure and safe. And so then we started working with ieee and one thing led to another, and then we created this standard. And I'll tell you something interesting. What's geeky, right? So trust, identity, privacy protection, safety and security. People. It's really. I am Identity and access management. People are like, oh, I feel like I'm gonna drown. So when you go to ieee, like, oh, this is cool. How many people will work on this? I'm 20 people if I invite my best friends. Like, this is pretty geeky. We had over 300 people from 33 countries and 6 continents.

[Ed Gaudet]

Incredible.

[Florence Hudson]

Because it's so valuable because we would say to people, oh, yes, we're working with the umbrella standard. And it's for trust and identity and, like, between devices and humans and data. And they're like, oh, my God, nobody's doing that. We needed it. We were like, that's what we were thinking. Okay, I'm in. I'm like, whoa, okay. And so that's what happened. And we won the IEEE Emerging Technology Award last year.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Congratulations.

[Ed Gaudet]

And how did you get to Columbia from there?

[Florence Hudson]

So I was on the board for this. This big data innovation hub since 2015, when they were born, when I was still at IBM. And then I stayed involved because it's a volunteer thing, academic. And then at the beginning of 2020, Rene Bastone, who was the executive director of the hub, who's a good. Do you know Renee, too, who's a good friend of mine, he called me. I was working with him on strategy and stuff, and he said, oh, I took this job. I said, oh, I'm glad you took that. I didn't want him. Tucson. Yay. I interviewed for that, too. And he said, we have to find a new executive director. And I. I said, let me think. He said, I was thinking you. And I said, what, me? Yeah. And I was VP in industry, but. And I always partnered with academia. Everyone thinks I'm whatever they are. They think I'm a researcher. I think I'm a vp. They think I'm whatever because I just. I'm like a little chameleon. So anyway, I was part time. I was working for Indiana University at the time, so.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, that's exactly.

[Florence Hudson]

The plot thickens. And so I was working for the NSF Cybersecurity center of Excellence. And so I was working with Mitch on the tip side, Peter.

[Ed Gaudet]

Did you work with Peter Emby?

[Florence Hudson]

Maybe.

[Ed Gaudet]

Okay.

[Florence Hudson]

I worked with Bon Welch. He was running it at the time and then he retired there a number of other people. Yeah. And then I said, well, I'm working for iu, so maybe part time. So then I worked for both of them part time and they asked me if I could run the place. I was like. So when they say be careful what boards you're on because they might ask you to run it, that's true. So just for everyone listening, putting it.

[Ed Gaudet]

Out there for those board directors, you may be an operator.

[Florence Hudson]

Yep, that can happen. And it's really been great. We created a national student data corps. We have over like we have 20,000 people around the planet that use our open online data science content. We have a lot on connected healthcare. We have the tip standard. As part of it, I run a Covid information commons for the government. We'll talk about a lot of this stuff tomorrow. Gotta Talk tomorrow at 11.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, 11. Yeah, yeah.

[Florence Hudson]

Also on prototype open knowledge and knowledge graphs. Actually, the young lady that I had lunch with today was asking about medicine in space. I said, oh well, Houston's doing a lot of that stuff. But I know a guy, as we say in New York, I know a guy and he's at ucsf, University of California, San Francisco, Sergio Baranzini, and he's running a project called the Spoke Project, which is looking at healthcare and interplanetary travel for units. And it's interesting when you. So he's working with NASA and all sorts of fun stuff. He's really great. So I'm going to talk a little bit about that tomorrow. That's cool because we're going to be roaming all over the place. What the heck. And as you look at it, if you think of it, you're in this nothing personal deprived environment up there, right? And so they start comparing it to like the social determinants of health and you're like, whoa, isn't that interesting? So you're deprived of maybe oxygen, you're deprived of maybe food, you're deprived of exercise, you're deprived of human contact. You're very interesting. And so they're looking at how this affects you like your genome and your exposome. That's a really funky exposure. Right. But we're saying that could increase over time. Isn't that interesting?

[Ed Gaudet]

It is. Do you think those two astronauts that were stuck up there in the station, do you think they got together?

[Florence Hudson]

No, I would never comment on that. I used to work for NASA. I Would never ever. That never crossed my mind. Your face just said, oh, that never crossed my mind. And no one should ever repeat that. Who's listening to this? We're gonna splice it out. Geez Louise. And you're running this panel I'm on tomorrow. Are you gonna say that again?

[Ed Gaudet]

Never. I'm never gonna say that again.

[Florence Hudson]

Very good.

[Ed Gaudet]

I don't think I'm running in a panel.

[Florence Hudson]

Oh, you're not.

[Ed Gaudet]

They wouldn't put me in charge.

[Florence Hudson]

I was wondering about that. No, that's okay. I can invite you. You have to behave. You can't.

[Ed Gaudet]

I will. Florence, you from Long Island?

[Florence Hudson]

I am.

[Ed Gaudet]

I heard a little long. Whereabouts? Whereabouts?

[Florence Hudson]

I. I was born in Port Jeff. Port Jefferson.

[Ed Gaudet]

Okay. Yeah.

[Florence Hudson]

Are you a Guyland boy?

[Ed Gaudet]

No, I'm over the sound, in Connecticut.

[Florence Hudson]

Oh. Where?

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, well, Southington area.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

I used to.

[Ed Gaudet]

We used to have a place in, well, the Clinton area, if you know the Clinton area.

[Florence Hudson]

New Yorker. New Jersey.

[Ed Gaudet]

No, Connecticut. So. Yeah. So.

[Florence Hudson]

Oh, okay.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. Hawks Nest Beach.

[Florence Hudson]

Yeah. I don't really know.

[Ed Gaudet]

I know. Yeah, we probably waved.

[Florence Hudson]

I'm a fire island girl.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, Fire is.

[Florence Hudson]

I used to go there all the time. Yes.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Yeah.

[Florence Hudson]

So I grew up on Long Island.

[Ed Gaudet]

Where do you live now? You live in the city?

[Florence Hudson]

No, I live north of the city.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, okay.

[Florence Hudson]

Yeah. But I get to go to the.

[Ed Gaudet]

City when I work often, right?

[Florence Hudson]

Yep.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. Columbia is awesome.

[Florence Hudson]

It really is.

[Ed Gaudet]

You get to hang out with like just every. Everything that's happening. Like all the young people and all the cool ideas.

[Florence Hudson]

We're so lucky because we hire part time students. Grants that we have and we're so lucky. They're brilliant.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

And they're. They don't have. They don't bring in baggage. They're just.

[Florence Hudson]

They're very.

[Ed Gaudet]

They're very energetic. They are like we used to be.

[Florence Hudson]

Oh, I'm so energetic. Speak for yourself. I'm so energetic. I'm still kind of perky.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

You're on a roll.

[Ed Gaudet]

Remember we talked about that test? You passed it. That was the test. There it is. Good work, Florence.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Good work, Florence.

[Ed Gaudet]

A plus.

[Florence Hudson]

But it is fun working with the students and they bring another perspective and they're our future leaders.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yes, I know.

[Florence Hudson]

So we need to try to inoculate them, if I can. That term these days.

[Ed Gaudet]

I do like that term.

[Florence Hudson]

Yeah. With what we know. So they don't have to learn.

[Ed Gaudet]

It's not the badness.

[Florence Hudson]

Yeah. And to inspire them to be innovative and to think differently and have hope. Yeah. Hope and inspiration. All that kind of Stuff. Absolutely.

[Ed Gaudet]

Lightning round.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Let's do it.

[Ed Gaudet]

All right. Go back in time. What would you tell your 20 year old self?

[Florence Hudson]

Keep going.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, wow, that was quick. Did you give her crib notes?

[Florence Hudson]

Everyone asks me this. Do they?

[Ed Gaudet]

Everyone?

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Oh, how about this one?

[Florence Hudson]

I speak a lot.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Ready for the next one?

[Ed Gaudet]

Just killed me. Just slayed us with that. Every. We thought we were unique.

[Florence Hudson]

You're very special.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, I know, I'm. They called me special Ed. So if you could change one decision that you made, what would it be? Going back on your life.

[Florence Hudson]

Oh, wow.

[Ed Gaudet]

One decision.

[Florence Hudson]

Oh, being in California, that brings up all sorts of ideas.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Oh, one decision.

[Ed Gaudet]

Been up the Big Sur recently?

[Florence Hudson]

I have. Well, not recently. A long time ago. I used to work for HP in Northern California.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. Big Sur is great, isn't it? Did you ever stay at the Post Ranch in.

[Florence Hudson]

No, because we weren't that far, so we would just do day trips to Big Sur. I never really stayed there.

[Ed Gaudet]

I love Big Sur.

[Florence Hudson]

What was the name of that restaurant?

[Ed Gaudet]

Nepenthe.

[Florence Hudson]

Nepenthe.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. Nepenthe.

[Florence Hudson]

Isn't that amazing?

[Ed Gaudet]

It's amazing.

[Florence Hudson]

Yeah, it's beautiful.

[Ed Gaudet]

I tell everybody about that place and I tell everybody about the Henry Miller Museum across the street, like 200 yards down.

[Florence Hudson]

And so I still have the chopsticks I bought at Nepenthe.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, yeah, the little gift shop.

[Florence Hudson]

The brown ones? Yes. Yeah. With the metal on the top. I still have those in my kitchen. And I bought those before a lot of people were born. A long time ago.

[Ed Gaudet]

She looked at my brother, who's much older than me. Yeah.

[Florence Hudson]

Are you really, brother?

[Ed Gaudet]

Like 10 years older than me.

[Florence Hudson]

He's not accepting that. Okay. Yeah, that's good.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

She saw the badge.

[Ed Gaudet]

Doesn't he look 10 years older than me?

[Florence Hudson]

No.

[Ed Gaudet]

Okay, the guys, they're here. Okay, Desert island, five albums. What would you bring with you?

[Florence Hudson]

You.

[Ed Gaudet]

Five records.

[Florence Hudson]

Five records?

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah. Movies. You movies person. You need to get out more.

[Florence Hudson]

I write books and I read.

[Ed Gaudet]

You write books?

[Florence Hudson]

I do, yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

So what kind of books you have out there? Well, can I go to Amazon and find you?

[Florence Hudson]

You could. All right, yeah, but you know, they're scientific. Well, wait, really, wait, hold on now.

[Ed Gaudet]

She's funny.

[Florence Hudson]

You don't know. You really know me, so I have to.

[Ed Gaudet]

You don't think I can manage the scientific.

[Florence Hudson]

But it's not.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

They're scientific. Okay. You have no business.

[Ed Gaudet]

Don't hurt yourself.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Don't strain your brain.

[Florence Hudson]

You see this how most guys talk to me. This is a lot of fun.

[Ed Gaudet]

No, but I'm no, guy, take that back.

[Florence Hudson]

Like a lot of people. But no, your eyes were like, oh, you have a book. Like you were going to curl up with a novel and get some marshmallows. Like that book.

[Ed Gaudet]

I would have never. I would have never guessed marshmallows. Anyway, I'm not crawling up with marshmallows. I'm telling you, you're a rocket science scientist. We're doing like this. We're not curling up with marshmallows. Come on. Now.

[Florence Hudson]

I wanted something clean and like, whatever. So I have a couple of books on the standard.

[Ed Gaudet]

Okay.

[Florence Hudson]

They're actually in the Women in Engineering and Science series because Springer is still trying to prove women can do engineering and science because women can do anything.

[Ed Gaudet]

When are we going to stop saying that? I have three daughters and I picture. Thank you. I'm a girl, dad.

[Florence Hudson]

Well, keep talking. And I'm going to tell you.

[Ed Gaudet]

I can picture a world where you stop talking about men, women, equality. Like, we don't have to talk about it any longer. It just is. That's the world I want to be for myself.

[Florence Hudson]

That's when all the microaggressions are gone. Yes, but that'll take a long time. But you know what the best do.

[Ed Gaudet]

We get there ever?

[Florence Hudson]

I don't know. But you know what the best thing is, Ed? And you did a great job.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, thank you.

[Florence Hudson]

The best way for men to be on women's side is to have more daughters.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Yes.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yes.

[Florence Hudson]

That's when they turn.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yes, absolutely.

[Florence Hudson]

There was a guy.

[Ed Gaudet]

I have four wives at home. I left her speechless, folks. For the record, her mouth is dropped. No, I'm just kidding. I love my girls. That's great job.

[Florence Hudson]

We should try to have men have more daughters so that they support them.

[Ed Gaudet]

My youngest daughter is a car salesman.

[Florence Hudson]

Really?

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Yes.

[Ed Gaudet]

She sells Jeeps.

[Florence Hudson]

Ooh, does she do great.

[Ed Gaudet]

She's the top sales rep five months in a row.

[Florence Hudson]

I bet you there are people who come to that dealership just for her.

[Ed Gaudet]

I think that's true. And she just started five months ago. She's top prep. She's crushing it. She's already sold 12. No.

[Florence Hudson]

I would have never thought she would.

[Ed Gaudet]

Have been a salesperson.

[Florence Hudson]

She's dower. No, of course not. She's perky. People love her.

[Ed Gaudet]

She came out of her introverted shell and became an extrovert, which she probably was all the time, but never had the opportunity to be that.

[Florence Hudson]

I have a friend who says he's an introverted extrovert.

[Ed Gaudet]

Passive introvert or active extrovert. Yeah, I'm actually an active introvert, believe it or not. I know I probably present like an extrovert.

[Florence Hudson]

Who told you that? That you're an active int.

[Ed Gaudet]

My wife. Wait, my wife's lying to me.

[Florence Hudson]

Oh, you don't have to. Wait a minute. Hold on. Oh, I'm sorry. That analysis was too quick. Remember, I do data analysis. Data and metadata. That's who we are.

[Ed Gaudet]

I need a therapist, I think.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Watch out.

[Ed Gaudet]

I'm finally there.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

They're throwing punches here, folks. This is not a podcast booth. It's a boxing ring.

[Florence Hudson]

On my side.

[Ed Gaudet]

Wow, what's happening here?

[Florence Hudson]

I'm very innocent.

[Ed Gaudet]

If you see Florence out there in the aisles, watch out, folks. She is Florence and the machine for sure.

[Florence Hudson]

Florence and the Machine.

[Ed Gaudet]

You like that, don't. You're going to use that from now on.

[Florence Hudson]

They used to call me. I worked on the Watson strategy at IBM.

[Ed Gaudet]

You didn't. Watson.

[Florence Hudson]

Whatever happened to Watson used to call me Florence in the machine? Why didn't it succeed?

[Ed Gaudet]

Was it just too early?

[Florence Hudson]

There's still things. It's like when I was working at Grumman on future machines. On future machines on future missions around Jupiter.

[Ed Gaudet]

You just dropped that, didn't you?

[Florence Hudson]

No, but this is a real story. And so I was like, 19 or 20, and I said, oh, so when is this going to go into space? And they said, 18 to 20 years. Whoa. And I looked at them and said, that is literally a lifetime for me. That's how old I am. I'm like, man, that's going to take a long time. I was like, oh, computers are going to run the world someday. I'll go do that instead. And that's what happened. And when Galileo came out, there were technologies that we actually were then implemented. So this takes a long time to bleed into reality. So the things that we were working on with Watson, like the provenance of the data, like, we were having a discussion yesterday at Columbia with a good friend of mine. We were undergraduate together at Princeton, and now we're on this project together at Columbia. We were talking AI and policy and all this stuff, and we were talking about reproducibility. I said, well, actually, repeatability. Do you get the same answer if you ask it twice? Is 2 plus 2 always 4, or is it 5 sometimes? What?

[Ed Gaudet]

With me, it is.

[Florence Hudson]

Yeah, I hear you. I hear you, and I care about that, so thank you for sharing. But that's the problem.

[Ed Gaudet]

That's the therapist brush right there. So classic.

[Florence Hudson]

I love it. But we worked on that because that was a real Thing. And there was a system before Watson. I worked on HPQs, a highly parallel query server. So I worked on all this stuff that.

[Ed Gaudet]

You're going to go quantum, aren't you?

[Florence Hudson]

Yeah, we have a quantum initiative.

[Ed Gaudet]

Do you?

[Florence Hudson]

Of course, yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

Are you involved in it?

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Does that surprise you?

[Ed Gaudet]

No, not at all. That's why I was checking. I was. No, no. I never met. I never met a string theory I didn't like. Right.

[Florence Hudson]

Really?

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Yeah.

[Florence Hudson]

Oh, wow. Look at you. You're just so cool.

[Ed Gaudet]

I'm going to New York. I'm gonna stalk.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Can we visit you?

[Ed Gaudet]

I'm gonna need to stalk her.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

They were a lot of fun.

[Ed Gaudet]

We'll do lunch.

[Florence Hudson]

Yeah, we can do lunch.

[Ed Gaudet]

McSorley's Pub.

[Florence Hudson]

Oh, my goodness.

[Ed Gaudet]

You love that place. Or I've heard of it.

[Florence Hudson]

I don't know if I've been there.

[Ed Gaudet]

You've never been to McSorley's?

[Florence Hudson]

I don't know. Where is it?

[Ed Gaudet]

It's down in the Village. It's the.

[Florence Hudson]

Oh, I go there a lot.

[Ed Gaudet]

I would hope not. Speecker Street.

[Florence Hudson]

It's Bleecker Street. Yeah.

[Ed Gaudet]

It's the oldest pub in America still running. Bob Dylan played there.

[Florence Hudson]

Oh, I'm down there a lot.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Florence Hudson]

Columbia is like the Upper west pretty far. But actually, the subway service is good all the way down there. It is. You just jump on the subway, on campus and then you scoot down. So, yeah, you guys could come visit. That would be a lot of fun.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Let's make it happen.

[Florence Hudson]

But you haven't asked me any questions. Is he supposed to ask?

[Ed Gaudet]

No, no. We just, you know, we're vibing it.

[Florence Hudson]

We're vibing.

[Ed Gaudet]

There's no. We don't have it any.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

There's no set agenda. This has been great. You've been great.

[Ed Gaudet]

You've been really fun.

[Florence Hudson]

Did I answer? I didn't.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Everything that we wanted, I had media training.

[Florence Hudson]

That's why we just say what we want. But.

[Ed Gaudet]

No, you're doing great.

[Florence Hudson]

Is it okay?

[Ed Gaudet]

Yes, of course it is.

[Florence Hudson]

I mean, today I didn't have any.

[Ed Gaudet]

You have to make it interesting. If you just came here and were like, my name is.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Nobody would listen to that.

[Florence Hudson]

How do you spell AI?

[Ed Gaudet]

I spell it. I. A? Yeah.

[Florence Hudson]

Very cool.

[Ed Gaudet]

Thank you.

[Florence Hudson]

You're such an innovator.

[Ed Gaudet]

Well, I do things differently, me.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Florence, we've really enjoyed having you again.

[Ed Gaudet]

He doesn't know what to do. And I gotta take my meds, I think.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

All right, all right. Go for it. Sounds great. Where can people reach out to you?

[Florence Hudson]

And is the best way to do it. Yeah. Because then I'll, I'll get it. I'll see it. As long as you're polite and you don't badger me, then I'll block you.

[Ed Gaudet]

No badgering.

[Florence Hudson]

You didn't get back to me. You didn't get back to me. Gotta go by. It's really, really.

[Ed Gaudet]

If I want to get back to you, I get back to you.

[Florence Hudson]

But you need to be respectful. So as long as people are respectful. Yeah. And then if they follow me, they can see speaking all the work you're doing. Yeah, the work I'm doing, the books I'm doing, the speaking that I'm doing, the new projects we have. Actually, I'm speaking. I have an AI in education webinar tomorrow before I present here.

[Ed Gaudet]

Whoa, is that here?

[Florence Hudson]

Well, it's a webinar being sponsored by University of Chicago.

[Ed Gaudet]

Oh, oh.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

Maybe she could promote it on the two minute spot.

[Ed Gaudet]

Yeah, let's do that.

[Florence Hudson]

Okay.

[Ed Gaudet]

All right.

[Co-host (possibly from Senseinet or Outcomes Rocket)]

All right, folks. There you have have it. Florence Hudson, executive director at Columbia University, with us here at AI Med Insights. Check out the show notes for all the ways to get in touch. Florence, thanks for joining us.

[Florence Hudson]

My pleasure. Thank you for your patience. It was a lot of fun.

[Ed Gaudet]

Thanks for listening to Risk Never Sleeps. For the show notes, resources and more information and how to transform the protection of patient safety. Visit [e-mail] that's C-N S I N E T dot com. I'm your host, Ed Gaudet. And until next time, stay vigilant because Risk never Sleeps.