Risk Never Sleeps Podcast: Episode #187

Title: How Zombie Applications Quietly Drain Millions From Healthcare Budgets
Host: Ed Gaudet
Guest: Jason Rose, CEO of Clearsense
Date: January 12, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode dives into an often-overlooked healthcare IT risk: the proliferation and persistence of “zombie applications”—obsolete software that lingers in hospital systems, draining millions from healthcare budgets. Ed Gaudet speaks with Jason Rose, CEO of Clearsense, about how application rationalization can massively reduce costs, minimize cyber risk, and unlock valuable data for both operational efficiency and advanced analytics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing Jason Rose and Clearsense

[01:18 – 03:46]

• Jason Rose introduces himself and Clearsense’s core mission: enabling data-driven transformation in healthcare by tackling technical bloat and legacy software.
• Highlights two main use cases:
  • Application Rationalization: Identifying and decommissioning redundant applications after system upgrades, M&A, or cloud migration.
    • “We help organizations look in their app stack and do an application rationalization process... then we revitalize that data so that it has other use cases.” (Jason Rose, [02:11])
    • Revived data gets patient-matched and loaded into longitudinal records, giving clinicians a fuller picture.
  • Active Data Feeds/Clinical Data Warehouse: Integrating not just legacy but real-time data feeds for broader analytics, AI, and research initiatives.

2. The True Cost and Scope of Zombie Applications

[03:46 – 06:36]

• Cost pressures in healthcare are at “COVID-levels” but with less public support and no extraordinary government funding.
  • “The pressure right now in a hospital is as big or bigger than it was in COVID. And the difference is that the public is not behind them like they were with COVID. And there's no freebies by the government to keep going.” (Jason Rose, [04:22])
• Zombie apps quietly bloat budgets, inflate cyber risk, and drag down operational margins.
• Healthcare systems, especially after M&A, end up with thousands—sometimes tens of thousands—of applications, many redundant.

3. How Clearsense Works and Demonstrated ROI

[06:45 – 11:11]

• Clearsense functions as middleware, not a simple data lake or warehouse solution (e.g., unlike Snowflake).
• Hard cost savings: Shutting down licenses, reducing infrastructure, freeing up IT staff, and diminishing cyber exposure.
• Case Study:
  • Trinity Health (93 hospitals, $30B+ in revenue): Cleared 800 apps (from 7,400), saving $68M in hard costs, aiming for $100M soon. (Jason Rose, [08:28])
  • “These are hard costs—these are software licenses and maintenance, mainly.” (Jason Rose, [08:46])
• Cost savings math: For every $1M in OpEx removed, a nonprofit health system with a 4% margin would need $25M in replacement revenue.
  • “A million, two million, five million, a $100M cost takeout…on the size of the system is billions in revenue that you would have to get otherwise.” (Jason Rose, [12:26])

4. Why Application Rationalization Is Overlooked

[10:07 – 11:58]

• Most health system CIOs aren’t prioritizing application decommissioning, despite cost optimization ranking highest on their agendas (59% in a recent Gartner survey).
  • “No one, unless we’ve spoken to them, is thinking about application decommissioning or rationalization.” (Jason Rose, [11:34])
• Memorable metaphor: Organizations are dragging a wagon with square wheels (legacy archiving) while radial tires (innovative solutions) sit unused.
  • “The solution to the problem is right underneath their nose.” (Jason Rose, [10:10])

5. Career Path & Risk-Taking

[13:15 – 20:45]

• Jason’s backstory:
  • Started with a psychology degree, worked in inpatient psychiatric care before moving to healthcare IT via GWU, then into EHR selection at Cerner in the 90s.
  • Transitioned from IT into product and business roles after a pivotal job switch: “That was my pivot point in my career as I went from IT management to building product, P&L management, sales, marketing.” (Jason Rose, [19:36])
• Biggest risks: Leaping to new markets/roles and being part of significant IPO and privatization events at Inovalon.
  • “Going public is... not as exciting... you become a slave to the quarter.” (Ed Gaudet, [22:40])

6. Personal Passions & Hobbies

[16:08 – 17:33]

• Loves boxing (without sparring), golf, hiking, and being outdoors.
• Based in Brentwood, near Nashville—“the Silicon Valley of healthcare.” Nashville hosts 900 healthcare companies and generates $97B in annual healthcare revenue.

7. Marketing the Zombie App Concept

[26:42 – 28:54]

• Clearsense used physical zombie figurines in direct mail campaigns to symbolically “kill zombie apps” in client organizations.
  • “What is a zombie app? Well, they're working in your data center. They're not being used. They're siphoning your budget, and they're major cyber risk—and they're lethal.” (Jason Rose, [28:35])
• Gartner literature even prescribes an “Application Undertaker Team” for this purpose.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Clinicians and Data:
  “Let’s just face it: clinicians are hoarders. They don’t want to give up any data, ever.” (Jason Rose, [07:17])
• On Opportunity:
  “Take the bull by the horns, and then get out of your own way… Never let an opportunity go to waste.” (Jason Rose, [24:37])
• On Hidden Value:
  “The solution to the problem is right underneath their nose.” (Jason Rose, [10:10])
• On Cost vs. Revenue:
  “For every million dollars of cost takeout that you do for a 4% operating margin organization, is $25 million of replacement revenue.” (Jason Rose, [12:06])
• On Application Decommissioning:
  “Harvest the data, and then consolidate and expire, shut down, terminate—whatever you want to call it.” (Ed Gaudet, [06:36])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:18] Jason Rose introduces Clearsense and its dual use cases
• [03:46] Why cost pressure is more brutal post-pandemic
• [06:45] The technical bloat: application bloat in large health systems
• [08:28] Trinity Health case study: outcome and savings
• [10:07] Metaphor: The wagon with square wheels
• [12:06] The math of cost savings in nonprofit health
• [13:15] Jason’s career journey from psychology to healthcare tech
• [16:08] Jason’s hobbies and the Nashville healthcare ecosystem
• [18:10] Jason’s riskiest career moves
• [20:45] Going public and the realities of running a public vs. private company
• [26:49] The zombie figurine direct mail campaign
• [28:35] What actually makes a zombie app dangerous

Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, energetic, and peppered with humor (especially when talking about clinicians “hoarding” data, zombie figurines, and music preferences). Both host and guest are deeply experienced, frequently referencing industry data, real-world anecdotes, and analogies that bring the technical subject to life.

Summary Takeaways

• Zombie applications are everywhere in healthcare IT, silently draining resources while increasing cyber risk and compliance headaches.
• Application rationalization is a high-ROI, underutilized tactic for cost optimization, especially relevant amid accelerating cost pressure and shrinking margins.
• It’s not just tech—it’s patient safety: Redundant or unmonitored legacy apps represent not only budget waste, but also ongoing operational and cybersecurity risks.
• Bold, creative outreach (like zombie figurines) helps to draw leadership's attention to these invisible drains on success.
• Advice for the industry: Don’t overlook what's right under your nose—and take action.