B (3:41)

I did not know that I was going to be sitting in my therapist's office chair today. But let's go back to little Carlos and how what happened to little Carlos has affected who I am. No, that's a great question, Justin. I love it. You know, I think that high school Carlos. Let's go to high school Carlos before we get to little, Little Carlos. High school Carlos, man, was just trying to, to fit in. Just trying to like hang out with the popular kids doing everything he could. High School Carlos was like this, you know, young, light skinned Afro Latino black kid in a 99.9% southern redneck white high school that I was trying my hardest to like, dress like my friends, talk like my friends, like the same kind of music of my. All while having an afro and they didn't know what to do with the afro on my head. Right. And so I, you know, it's funny because I feel like a lot of my attempts at trying to fit in really inform kind of who I am today. Seeing people that I know every single day are maybe they, they're trying to be on the inside of whatever subculture they're living in, but they're just not there. And gosh, man, if, if there's one thing that I could go back and, and until, you know, 16 year old Gary Coleman afro parted down the side, Carlos is like, man, listen, like, I know you're trying your hardest to fit into this group that these 17 people right now, but trust me, be patient. And by you seeing people just like you, you're gonna develop a tribe that you've never, that you could never even imagine, never even fathom. And so, man, a lot of high school Carlos was just copy and pasting what his friends were doing so that he, he fit in where.

A (5:47)

So you have such a strong sense of identity now. What were the, like, what were the formative points that moved you from identity chasing high schooler Carlos to truly feeling like this is who I am and this is what my calling is?

B (6:07)

Yeah, it's a great question. Well, one in particular was, I think after years and years, even into young adulthood of just trying to fit in, you know, I mean, man, dude, I was I think back and I just laugh because I'm like, I tried so hard. Like I just tried to. I look at, you know, you look at photos of yourself and I just think like, man, I was really trying to hard to fit in with Nathan Brown because look at how I'm dressed. I'm just like Nathan Brown. Oh my gosh. I was really trying to look what I was listening to, you know. And I think for me actually when life kind of came crashing down for me when, when I had my first like panic attack, like legitimate like earth shattering, future shifting panic attack at like 23 years old, I was actually like on stage in front of a bunch of people doing and had this horrendous panic attack. I thought I was having a heart attack. I got lightheaded, was about to pass out. And then for like, I don't know, like three or four months after that, I couldn't even leave my home. Like I was like home ridden. Like if I tried to back down the driveway, I was stricken with panic. And so, you know, life has a way of really kind of realigning what's important. And I realized in that season of like just kind of overcoming a lot of anxiety and stress in my life that I think I was placing a lot of that on my own shoulders by this like desire to fit in and this desire to make sure that the world was going to accept me. And not that that was the reason for my anxiety and my panic, but when. And I think this is when it clicked for me because I remember sharing now, Ken, remember this was probably. This is like baby Internet era. Okay? So like we're talking about, you have to, you had to remember www before you tight. You know, I had a blog. This is before social media. You know, like I was like, you know, I was a blogger and I would like write down like two or three paragraphs of my thoughts on my type pad or WordPress blog every day and I would hit and I'd send it into the world. And I'll never forget, I was like two months into being home ridden because of my panic and my anxiety. And I started taking Paxil just like ssri, this like anxiety medicine. And I posted a photo of me taking it. And I just will never forget, I'll never forget the hundreds and hundreds of comments I got from people going like, oh my gosh, you, you have anxiety too. You do too. And suddenly, Justin, like I started hearing from all these people that felt invisible, that suddenly me just show just being visible and being vulnerable and being authentic in a really Crappy part of my life gave voice to a lot of people that didn't feel like they had a voice before. And so I think that was the first time that I felt like, wait a second. I think I can shift the narrative here. I think that instead of trying to fit in with the 17 people I'm trying to fit in with, what if I just try to see the 1700 people that feel invisible, and then, boom, it's like a thing started at that point, right. And then it just kind of began there. So I think that was, for me, a definite moment of clarity, that maybe trying to fit in isn't the goal here. Maybe helping other people feel seen is.

C (9:48)

Wow, that's incredible. I think going from high school, where I think we all went through periods of trying to fit into the right clique, because in high school, everything kind of sorts into certain boxes, and then you get out a little bit into college, then you get out into the world, and you start to see those. That all that stuff doesn't matter as much. So a couple of the things that I took. So for our listeners, Carlos just spoke at one of our events and had some really powerful messages. And one of the messages I took was, don't stand on issues. Walk with people. And you were just kind of explaining that. Take us through how you're starting to formulate this idea of it's okay to be different, and let's talk to each other. How did that. How did that go from that moment to building out to where you are today?

B (10:42)

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if you guys want to go here, but let's just go here. So. So, like. Like, it was. For me, it was. I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say a word, and everyone's gonna feel like it's a cuss word, but the word is 2020. So it was 2020. And that triggers a lot of feelings for a lot of people. But I just remember that I had. Remember. Remember I was blogger Carlos, right? For a long time, like, was blogging, and then I built the social media following, and a lot of my social media following in 2020 was like, look at this family guy. And, like, you know, like, he takes his family on vacations and vlogs. It. And, oh, look at the robins that are laying the eggs in his gutters. And he films that every day. Like, What a wholesome Mr. Rogers kind of dude. Like, this is awesome. And then 2020 happened, and I had the unction to post something that had to do with justice on My page. And I just will never forget. I posted a video and the video was like, you know, how my white friends can help the black community or their black friends in this moment or so I can't remember it again, was the Most like, vanilla Mr. Rogers, kind of like, hey, everybody, like, let's talk about this. I wasn't calling anybody name. I was just kind of being, you know. Well, I just. I'll never forget. Overnight, I think I lost one third of my entire followers on. On Instagram. And when they left, they let me know it. I mean, my DMs, they were. They let me know it. And I just remember waking up the next morning to all these, you know, again, tens of thousands of followers were gone and hitting delete on the video because I was trying to, like, holy crap. Like, I got to, like, save face. Like, I got to. I got to stop the bleeding. So I'm going to delete it and then apologize, right? And this is the craziest thing. I went and I hit delete. And I don't know if Instagram even does this anymore, but at least in 2020, when I hit delete, another popup popped up on the screen that said, are you sure? And I just remember that that, are you sure? Pop up literally changed my life because I said no, and I clicked no, and I left it and then began. Because if I would have clicked yes, like, I may have gotten a few thousand people back, I would have. But I know that I wouldn't have been leading to the phrase, Ronnie, that you just talked about. Don't stand on issues, walk with people. Because I suddenly had. I suddenly realized, wait a second, man. Like, people are really fired up and passionate about this. Like. Like a lot of people that have followed me for a decade have read my blog. They cussed me out on the way out the door. Like, like they. They really feel passionate. So I started to really speak into this, and I started to speak into the current cultural climate of 2020, things that were happening. But I did it in a great. And what I tried to do as a grace filled way, I tried to have these hard, crucial conversations in a grace filled way. And then a friend of mine, Mike Ashcroft, he gets all the credit for that phrase because he told me, he said, carlos, when somebody asks you where you stand on this issue, because 2020 was the year of issues, everyone had an opinion on an issue. He started asking me, where do you stand on this issue? And I tell him, he's. He's like, okay, but you just, you Literally just cut off half your audience. What about this issue? Where do you stand on it? I told him. He's like, okay, you cut off the other half. And then. And then he's like, when people ask me where I stand on an issue, I tell them very simply, oh, I've got an opinion on that issue, but I don't stand on that issue. I walk with the people that are affected by that issue. So he told me that, and all of a sudden I was like, holy cow. I think that changed my life. Like, that is literally what I want to teach people to do. Not stand still on issues, but walk with people that don't look like them, think like them, believe like them, vote like them, love like them, all the things like them. And that just felt so central to. To who I was that that began. Became kind of my. My community's mantra, like our. Our. Our. Our ethos, right? Like it. It is what we believed in. So I kind of, for about two years, built everything, all of my content, everything really around that phrase, and slowly but surely began to unpack. What does that look like? And again, where I land now, I don't really say that phrase a lot. I do every once in a while, but now I've kind of shifted into more of a curiosity mindset, helping people be curious. Again, it's all the same thing. Curiosity leads to empathy. Empathy leads to trust. Trust leads to relationship. Relationship leads to change. And ultimately, people are desiring changes, but they have to be curious first. Then they have to do all these steps in the middle. And that's really kind of my messaging now, how I'm helping people really accomplish this whole idea of don't stand on issues, but walk with people.

A (15:26)

It was a powerful moment when you shared that at our event. The entire 22 minutes was powerful. And you had shared with me beforehand the, you know, from our first conversation, you said, I get it. I understand. I want to breathe life into the audience. I want to be the inhaler for the asthmatic, and I want you to reflect on that. But I. I cannot have this conversation without interjecting what I observed in your vulnerability from our first conversation up until the shift. And that was you displaying and walking out your life and the loss of your father over that time period. And I got to tell you, like, you were on my mind often as we built towards the event. And so how much I want you to reflect on the idea of being the inhaler, but how much also did you need an inhaler of sorts, of as you Worked towards that speaking opportunity, carrying out this new season of life.

B (16:45)

Yeah, you know, I do remember, you know, I mean, not only do I remember you because you have the coolest artwork behind you. There's a lot of zooms that I don't remember the people I'm talking to. You know, I remember Justin. Right? And I remembered just your heart for the people that were going to be in the room. How free, bro. When I walked on that stage, I could see it in there. I could. I could see it. These people have. They have a hard job. They are exhausted. And what was cool was that I felt just as exhausted when I got on that stage. Like, it's like I looked and I was like, oh, you too? I didn't say that, but I felt that I was like, okay, wait a sec. We are each other's people. You're going to get me. I'm going to get you. You know, and when I did say that, you know, again, the inhaler to an asthmatic, it's because, you know, and I think I did say this in the talk. Like, we don't know, like, when you've been, like, suffocating for so long, like, you don't even know that you're not breathing right. And finally when you get a breath, it's just like. I mean, I did. I walked off that stage and I had a freaking breath in my lungs. And even my son was like, dad, my son was there. I took my son with me, and he. You know, he's heard my. He's heard all my stories. He's heard all the things, but he was. Like there was something different. There was something different tonight. Like, you were just. You felt. You felt free. Like, dad, like, it was just so good. He was, like, so proud of me. I got all teary. We talked at restaurant afterwards. He's just telling me how proud he was of me, how great I did. And I just think it's because, Justin, like, it did. Like, not only did the shift feel like that for me, but I hope that I was that for them, you know, as I walked through this season, I mean, this is the tail end of a season of, you know, I moved my parents into the home across the street from me here in Nashville, only because my father has dementia and I wanted to be with him the last few years of his life. I haven't lived near my dad and my mom in decades. So I move them in, and I do for the last 18 months. I get to walk my father to his deathbed and not too Long ago, he. Not too long. Especially before I did your event, he passed away. And I know that I. Like, I shared that so vulnerably on Instagram. Why? This goes back to seeing people. This goes back to walking with people, because so many people feel invisible that are in that season of life. And so, you know, as I walked toward your event, towards, you know, the shift, I. I got up on that stage, and, gosh, I may have only spoken once or twice in between my father's death and when I stood on that stage, but my father was an incredible orator. He was just like. I mean, he was. He. He was so incredible at his gift. And so when I get to stand on the stage now and kind of like, be an echo or guitar delay pedal of my father's giftings, man, it was like an inhaler to an asthmatic for me. And so, you know, I thank you for even giving me the gift and the opportunity to do that of such a. I don't know who's listening to this, but if you've never been to this thing, I'm telling you, like, I'm. I'm trying to figure out how to get Justin to have me back just every year. Maybe I could emcee it, but it was so, like, life giving to everybody that was in the room the entire evening. It was such a freaking jolt of goodness. So thank you for doing that, man.

A (20:13)

God, are you kidding? Like, I have goosebumps all over my legs right now, Carlos. Like, just. Yeah, it was such a special evening, and there was something in the air. There was something in the air in the room.

B (20:30)

Yes, agreed. Absolutely agreed.

C (20:34)

Carlos, I want to back up a little bit and connect the dots a little here. So you're talking about seeing other people, walking with other people, understanding where people are coming from. And one of the big things that we see today is how social media divides us. Right, and so you wrote a book. You wrote a book Reconnected and talked about this journey you had of disconnecting. Tell our listeners a little bit about that and that journey that you went on there.

B (21:05)

Yeah, for sure. You know, I. So before I wrote Reconnected, I wrote a book called how to Human, and the subtitle of that book was three Ways to Share Life beyond what Distracts, divides, and Disconnects Us. And when I was writing that book, I felt like, okay, like, I think I. You know, like, I think I'm, like, the right guy to write this, but I just feel like I hadn't really done it. Like, even when I finished, I was like, I'm talking about how to human. But like, have I really figured out how to disconnect what's dividing us? Walk it out. And so this book, reconnected was almost like, you know, it was almost like the how to human experiment. And what I did was I, yeah, I, you know, these screens are, that we scroll on are literally just ecosystems of rage that we're swimming in all day long. And so I did, for seven and a half weeks, I didn't look at a single screen. Not an Apple phone, a laptop, iPhone, Apple watch, a laptop, nothing. No TVs, nothing. And I lived with monks and I lived with Amish farmers and I lived with my family, completely detached from screens. Got my brain scanned by a neuroscientist because I know some people need data and some people need that kind of stuff. So gave those people a little bit of that. And I'm telling you what, I have never in my entire adult life been more at peace than those seven and a half weeks. Like, you don't even have to read the book, you don't have to watch the documentary. Just hear me tell you that I've not felt as peaceful as I felt in those seven and a half weeks. And it was a true, it was a true application of don't stand on issues, walk with people. Because here's the thing, like, I'm not a monk, okay? These dudes, they live that way for a reason. They've taken these vows for a reason. And I have not taken those vows. So we look at the world through different lenses. The Amish, I'm not Amish for a reason. They're Amish for reasons. And so we vehemently disagree on a whole lot of stuff. Me and Farmer Willis. I was literally just with Willis three days ago. I went up to Ohio, hang out with him again. And we're like homeboys, right? Like, we are such good friends, but we view the world completely differently. And we disagree on a lot of issues we disagree on. Gosh, I mean, almost like every big issue it seems, here's the kicker, it actually seems like we disagree until we start having conversations and until we start having these 90 minute dinners and these two hour lunches and suddenly when we have breath to breath conversations, I think a lot of times at the end of the conversation we're like, well, maybe we, we actually are seeing this thing a lot more alike than we thought. Malcolm Gladwell just did a. Just did this thing. I heard it. I heard him on a podcast a few months ago. Where he talked about how he took. It was the social experiment. He took like, I think it was 100, 100 people. 50 of them were like ultra, ultra left leaning. 50 of them were ultra, ultra right leaning. And he got them together, but he didn't tell them that they were separate. He didn't tell them that they were so. And they all think they're the same people. They're in there, they're hanging out, they're hanging out. Then he put them at tables two by two across from each other, and then he had them write on a piece of paper, like, the top 20 things that they're the most passionate about. And I think the ending average that they found out was like 18 out of 20. The things were the exact same thing. And then he was like, oh, by the way, this is who you're sitting across from. And it blew everybody's minds. And again, it's the power of connection, it's the power of breath, it's the power of eye to eye, it's the power of relationship. And we've lost it. We've completely lost the ability to do this because we've been tricked by these screens into thinking that this is how we're supposed to human and we're not. Man, I love AI. I use it every week. But, hi, human intelligence. This is like, we got to get back to it.

C (25:07)

So, yeah, I thought that was really powerful. I wrote a LinkedIn post referencing your speech. And I had sort of been taking a social media detox of my own, just naturally. And I hadn't even realized it had been three months since I had posted on LinkedIn, just because I've been trying to dial back a little bit. And so with you and your Instagram following and obviously, you know, we're all in marketing, you have to promote things, right? How do you balance that, that struggle of being on social media, but not over consuming it because you know what, you know now, right?

B (25:43)

Yeah, yeah, no, I. You know what, you know, and once you know it, you can't unknow it. Um, and. And you know, and I did, man, I had a hard time. I don't want to let everybody think that, like, oh, I took seven and a half weeks off and then I just jumped back in and everything was awesome. No, like, I didn't want to pick my phone up again. Like, I didn't want to. I was like, I don't know, can I become a fly fishing guy? Like, what can I do? So I don't to be on my phone and then fly Fishing guides, like need their phones too. And so I'm just like, the monks were on their phones, Amish had phones. I'm like, lord have mercy. Like, everyone's got a phone, what are we supposed to do? And so you know how I balance it now? Here's the beautiful thing. I'm on my phone two and a half to three hours a day now. I used to be on my phone seven and a half hours a day, right? So I've got like five hours a day back on my. That's two and a half months a year of living. So like already I'm like, bro, like, I am like living two and a half more months than the rest of my friends are a year, which is awesome. But I think when it comes to, you know, like social media, I just, I just realized that like, it's a, it's, it's got to be a tool for me. It has to be a, it is a tool for me to get the word out. And I'm, I'm actually right now in the midst of me trying to figure out even my new relationship with social media, even after my father passed away. So, you know, like, things like that happen and it just throws you, spins you another 180 degrees and I'm like, well, do I, do I actually want to every single day still like wake up and pour my coffee on in front of a camera and say, buenos dias, 300,000 people, welcome to my life. And let's, you know, let's kind of. Do I still want to do that? Do I have to do that? I just think, Ronnie, that it's important enough of a question for us to continue to ask ourselves all the time is how I'm, how I'm being, how I'm using social media. The way I need to keep using social media in this season, you know, I think, I think five years ago it looked a certain way and I probably needed to use it that way. Maybe now it's going to be more me creating long form videos that my team posts and people can share them and stuff, but maybe I'm just not on Instagram as much, you know, like, so I just think that it's an important question that we have to keep asking ourselves. The Amish ask themselves, and I can't remember if I shared this in the keynote, but they ask themselves two questions when they introduce a new piece of technology into their lives, right? So you, you will see The Amish from 100 years ago were way more conservative than the Amish now, right? So like, like the Amish now are riding E bikes. Like they're, they're not just horse and buggy. You know, it's like, oh my gosh, these liberal Amish people, you know, like they're. But the, the question they ask themselves is this, is this piece of technology that we are thinking about incorporating into our culture going to bring us closer to community and each other or take us farther away from community? And that's the question. So I ask myself, is social media, how I use it right now, bringing me closer to community or farther away? You know, and I think we just have to ask ourselves that question. I think it's a really important question for us to ask.

A (28:46)

I think that you could apply that same, the sentiment of that same question to all aspects of life and of leadership and of leading teams and of, you know, so many different dimensions. Is this decision going to bring us closer together? Is it going to bring, you know, foster community or is it going to separate me from community?

B (29:12)

Yeah, no, absolutely. You know, that. And Farmer Willis was like, carlos, that's why we don't have cars like we can do. We decided to do E bikes and not cars. Why? Well, it's not that we don't believe in the wheel, obviously we roll around on E bikes, but a car is going to take us way farther away from each other. If Sally Smith's barn burns down, we're not going to be able to rebuild that thing in 48 hours if we're all across the country. But because we force ourselves to stay close together, because an E bike or a horse and buggy can only get us so far away, we will always be able to return back to each other within hours. If somebody needs help, that's their decision making. And I think you're right, Justin. That's something we can apply to all forms of leadership in our lives.

A (29:54)

The, you know, I think of. I connect so much of what you do to, to a version of mission and ministry and, and the way in which you live your life. And, and so, you know, as someone that is so purpose filled, what breathes life into you? You spend so much of your time breathing life into others. Whether or not that's the content that you create or, you know, the speaking that you do, what breathes life into you when you're not in front of the little red light.

B (30:30)

Yeah, no, that's great. I mean, my friends and when I say that, I say that sometimes the word friends can just sound so. I don't know. For me, I've had a hard Time making friends. I've had a hard time actually finding or being. Not finding, being a good friend. And I've made a very intentional shift in my life the last few years to be a great friend to other people. And it's blown my world apart in a great way how, like, being an intentional friend to somebody else has created these incredibly great relationships for me. So, like, now it's like, I'm like, listen, I know some people, like, the only way they can find relationships because of some situation in their life is through their screens, through the little red dot. But breath to breath, face to face, conversations with my friends, Ketrick, Rob, Dan, like, I've got them here in Nashville, and they do. That's how I get refueled. And what we do are two things. I either fish with my friends or I play pickleball with my friends. Those are, like, the two things that breathe life into me. And I do those things on all the time. You will rarely see unless I'm with. I take one of my family members. If I'm on a trip somewhere. I always have my fishing, my fly fishing rod in my. In my suitcase. And I'll even, like, I fly fished in the nasty canals in Dallas, Texas. Like that, like, going through, like, I will if there is a tug at the end of my line. It's the drug for me. And I am like, I love it. So those are things that I do, you know, to make sure that I'm feeling rested, that I'm. Make sure that I'm feeling refreshed. Isolation is one of the most dangerous things that can happen to any of us. And so, you know, my big thing is for community. Community doesn't have to be a thousand people. Find yourself 1, 2, or 3 people that can breathe life into you. And that. That's what really breathes life into me.

A (32:26)

So I got to tell you, we. So we have our weekly team meeting, and every week, as a part of our team meeting, the last thing that happens is we have what we call the fourth question. I don't even remember what the first, second, or third questions were, but the fourth question, it's a rotating host, and they just get to ask something about, you know, whatever they want, whatever they want the fourth question to be that week. And today, Grace, who you met backstage at the shift, Grace, her question was, what's one hobby that you would like to, you know, to spend more time on and something that you've never invested time in that you're interested in? Ronnie's answer was pickleball. And my answer was fishing.

B (33:10)

Oh, my God.

A (33:11)

Here you are.

B (33:11)

Three of us are about to take a five day pickleball fly fishing vacation. That's. That's what.

A (33:17)

Now, now here's the. I'm going to add one dimension because you're a Nashville SC season ticket holder.

B (33:24)

Yes, I am.

A (33:25)

I'm an FC Dallas season ticket holder.

B (33:27)

Okay. Okay.

A (33:28)

And so. And Ronnie is very anti soccer, so we got to get him on our trip. We got to work in a couple of soccer matches to help convert him.

B (33:37)

Is all it's going to take. I don't know, Ronnie, if you've been to a soccer game with Justin, like with Justin, but I think that's all it's going to take is he needs to go with us and then we can teach him the songs. He can, you know, he can have the scarf around his neck. He's. He'd be all in real quick.

C (33:51)

Well, I've been a Dallas Mavericks season ticket holder, but this is probably the last season of that after everything that happens. So maybe I. Maybe I make the shift.

B (34:00)

What a great time to transition to FC Dallas.

C (34:03)

Right?

B (34:06)

That's amazing. That is amazing. I love it, man.

A (34:09)

We. We love what you continue to do and love the fact that you spent that evening with us. And so it was. It was so great. And. And so we're just thankful and full of gratitude for the work that you continue to do. And I hope you. That you realize that. That all Arcadians will continue to edify Carlos's work. And you know, we're. We're just. We love that there are people like you that do what you do, man.

B (34:45)

Wow. Well, just allow me to be a honorary Arcadian the rest of my life. And I'm. And I'm. Good deal.

A (34:52)

We'll get you a little red pen. We'll work it out. All right, man. Thanks for hanging out with us.

B (34:57)

Oh, man. That was awesome, guys.

A (35:00)

Group Thinkers is a production of RKD Group. For more information, including how you can.

B (35:06)

Partner with RKD to accelerate growth for your fundraising and nonprofit marketing needs, visit rkdgroup.com.