← RKD Group: Thinkers
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:05]
B
Welcome to the RKD Group Thinkers Podcast, Ronnie. Today's focus on cheesecake.
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C
I'm in.
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B
Okay. Just like, it's not Cheesecake Factory. It's not like all the, you know, 31 flavors of cheesecake. But this is. This is the first time that cheesecake has made an appearance, at least on camera. What do you. We're not constantly eating cheesecake off camera. That's not.
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C
Speak for yourself.
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B
Tell us about our guests.
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C
Our guest today is Donna Shefeli. She's the executive director of dmaw, Direct Marketing association of Washington. She's the founder and owner of Conference Inc. Where she, as part of that, leads the Bridge Conference, which is hitting its 20th year this year. She has 50 years of experience in association and nonprofit management and, as she told us, also loves to bake and make cheesecakes. From our conversation, I. I really. She pieced together a few different things that stood out to me of talking about the importance of taking risks and not being afraid when uncertainty comes around and how you have to come from a position of abundance. And she also talked a lot about community. And I think those two come together because being part of a community can support you in these times. Right? I mean.
- [01:49]
B
Yeah, it's. Ronnie, you and I both have a deep appreciation for sports, and so for our listeners that don't, I'm going to use a metaphor that's a sports metaphor. So if you don't like it, blame Ronnie. And, you know, if you do like it, credit Ronnie. I feel like a conversation with Donna is like a conversation with a. An offensive coordinator, like someone who sits in the press box and has the purview of decades of events and working alongside leaders of the nonprofit fundraising sector. And so when you have that kind of purview, when you have the purview from the press box, you can see things at a different altitude in terms of how the plays form and what's working and what's not working. And so I didn't know what I was expecting coming into this conversation, but I love what you referenced there of that view on abundance over scarcity and the importance of coming together, collaborating, and driving something forward. Such a unique, timely, and important perspective. So here's to cheesecakes, and here's to Donna Schfeli on the Arcadia Group Thinkers Podcast. So, Donna, I think of you so often as being at the back of the room or at the side of the room, headphones, headset on, you know, helping navigate the production of an event and not being front and center. How do you feel about today in this conversation where you are the front and center?
- [03:51]
A
I'm a nervous wreck. Are you kidding? I'm supposed to be at the tech table, headset on, saying, get ready, cue video, go video. Q speaker, go speaker. This is not my natural habitat.
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B
Yeah, well, hopefully we, we do justice by your, your time in service to the nonprofit space as a part of the conversation. That's our goal for, for this. So. So I want to start with the Bridge Conference. So Bridge Conference now in its 20th year. Take us back to your start with Bridge and like how it came about and when did you feel like it could be something?
- [04:55]
A
It's actually kind of an interesting story. And it goes back. The first Bridge Conference, which I was not involved in, was in 2006. But at the time, the association of fundraising professionals, Washington D.C. chapter, and the Direct Marketing association of Washington, their executive committees and their boards had come together and said, look, both of our events are kind of annual, events are kind of declining. We know we want to serve this market. We know that we've got to break down silos between marketing and fundraisers, the traditional fundraisers. So why don't we put our heads together, put our events together, and have what they ultimately call the bridge to integrated marketing and fundraising 2007. I came on board and it was still a raw conference. There was still some things that we had to work out and we were still banging through it. But the potential was so huge that everybody was really willing to dig in and make it happen. I mean, they could. Everybody could see the potential of this. And I say everybody. If I fast forward to the five year anniversary, I was talking to a leader in the industry at the time and Bridge had grown. We moved out of the Washington Hilton. We were at the Gaylord Hotel. Every year we were growing. The word was catching on. And I was told, donna, we didn't think you would last two years. We didn't think you'd be able to make the Bridge Conference go. And this was on our fifth year and now we're celebrating 20 years. So, you know, it takes a team, it takes a huge commitment of volunteers. But I'm going to kind of fast forward to today with it a little bit because now more than ever, the Bridge Conference is needed. With everything that is happening out there, nonprofits more than ever need to be collaborating, coming together, finding out what each other is doing, seeing what are some best practices, seeing what are some practices that we've got to abandon and start over, seeing what new messaging can be put out there. Not only to the donors, but, but to the public at large about how important nonprofits are. And so while last year we hit record number of 2700, we're shooting for 3000 this year and for the Bridge conference. And the first bridge Conference was 600 people. So we've grown from 600 to having a very big audacious goal of hitting 3,000 this year. But again, now more than ever, we need to provide this education for nonprofits to help them be able to further their mission. So that's the Bridge Conference. And I'd love to talk to those people that didn't think I'd make it two years because here I am sitting.
- [08:29]
B
We actually have them. Ronnie, why don't you let them in?
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A
Let's, let's.
- [08:32]
C
We got a surprise.
- [08:33]
A
This is your life.
- [08:35]
B
Yeah, the Maury Povich version of exactly. You know, the. It's, it's so interesting, like for such a time as this. Yes. I was at a different event recently and I heard an extremely well respected leader in the space was asked by a nonprofit leader, what are you going to do to help us unlock this tremendous potential around X, Y and Z? And that leader respectfully and artfully said, that's up to you. Like the, the mindset of abundance, not scarcity.
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A
Right.
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B
And so many of the good things that this sector has done bubble up from community, not from, you know, one person or one voice. Right. So Bridge Conference being a great example, TNPA being a great example of something that came from community, Giving Tuesday as both an entity and a day, being something that came from community. Like when you have that abundance mindset, you can come up with those things, you can launch those things. And, and you know, the Bridge Conference for me represents a space that is all about abundance and opportunity.
- [10:05]
A
And it really is. There's an old story in advertising about a hot dog salesman and economist, a big authority or whatever, told this hot dog salesman he had a hot dog stand on the side of the road that, hey, it's a recession. You've got to cut your costs and change how you do this. It's a recession. And so this poor hot dog salesman who had provided quality hot dogs, bought cheaper buns, cheaper hot dogs, pulled back on signage, and then all of a sudden he's out of business. Why did that happen? It wasn't because of the recession. He made all the wrong decisions about. He lowered his quantity, he lowered his quality, he pulled back his marketing, he pulled back his advertising, he imploded. And sometimes with nonprofits, when exterior things outside Factors happen. They suck in. And it's the absolute opposite of what they should be doing. They should be going out. That branding, even if they're not making the ask, get the word out about the good they do. Because without nonprofits, Justin, and I know you've heard me say this, and I apologize for you having to hear it again, but our country would come to its knees. There is no other service, no other organization that can serve what nonprofits do. And we've got to protect them. But we can only do so much. Each individual nonprofit has to step up and do it as well.
- [12:06]
C
I love that story, Donna, for two reasons. One, I just had a hot dog for lunch right before this.
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A
I hope it was a good one, Ronnie. I really.
- [12:16]
C
It was. It was out of abundance, I'll say that. But secondly, yeah, the message. The message is so true. You know, it's. In times of uncertainty, we can. There's a hesitation, and it's. How do we push past that hesitation and how do we continue to do what we were doing? But also sometimes, like you said, do more. Get that word out there. And that's. That's another important thing about bridge, that, you know, it's there to. For everyone to share these ideas. As you think back across these 20 years, or maybe 19, because you said you weren't there for the first one, what are some memories that pop up or some of your favorite memories about bridge?
- [12:59]
A
Oh, my God. I have to tell you, the first one was when we hit 1,000 people in 2010, and that was just like, yow. That was fantastic. And then some of our keynotes have just been amazing from those in the industry. Like, oh, my God, I can see him. Tony Ellisure, who has keynoted for us a couple of times. What an icon. And obviously he's no longer with us, but just a tremendous person. Jeff Peters, Bernie Ross, Alan Clayton, some of the people in the industry that have just been icons and have done amazing work and have led so much. So it's been a real treasure for me to get to be able to work and get to know these people and these professionals and just kind of walk alongside them and hear some of the thoughts. Sometimes they can be scary, but, you know, but it's still. So that's been exciting having an exhibit hall that we sell out and we've sold out the last 10 years or so. Pre Covid. I'm going to that Covid time frame just kind of gets thrown out the window. That's exciting. So I guess. And seeing one of the fun Things for me. And it kind of talks to what we've just been saying is the community, man. When you get together and you haven't seen anybody every, or seen somebody, I should say a person for a year or the year before and seeing a bridge and the excitement is so high that that just generates more excitement and more energy and you kind of ride that high for several days. It's, that's the fun part for me. Ronnie, I have to tell you, just the community of it all. Like Justin said, getting together and seeing.
- [15:14]
B
These people, it is a bit of a reunion, right? Like the, just the, and the, the return post pandemic, you know, in, in 22, like being together in person. Oh my gosh, the, the energy that year, it was just, it was thick.
- [15:38]
A
It was thick. It really was thick. People could not wait to get together. And I have to tell you, in my career, I wish I could say it was only 19, 20 years, but I started in the nonprofit association sector in 1973 and I was with a medical organization at the time. And I've worked medical, I've worked computer side, I've worked the publishing side. I've had an incredibly blessed career. The non profit sector is one of the rare industries that is willing to share and give anything away. I mean the community and the collaboration that happens in this industry you don't find in the other businesses, you just don't. And so that gives it an extra edge, if you will, an extra wow, if you will, that people just kind of are attracted to and, and they just love to be a part of.
- [16:51]
B
Yeah, I want to transition to build off of what you just shared and think about both your time broadly in the association management space and speaking specifically with dmaw, TNPA and Bridge and like the, the. You have had a unique opportunity that I would say maybe no one else in the history of this sector has had to fly so close to so many leaders for as long as you have. And, and when you think about your proximity to, and working alongside and working with so many industry icons, like what, what lessons have you taken away from that and, or how has that shaped how you approach your work with, with DMAW and et cetera, I know this.
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A
Might sound funny, but the biggest thing, and we don't always have the opportunity to do it or the resources, but if I learned anything from all of these people, it's you've got to take risks, you've got to take risks, you've got to try things, you've got to do different things and that's hard for people to do. It's hard because they'll, you know, do we have the money? Do we have the human resources? Do we have the bandwidth? How do we take the risks? And it's so easy for all of us, and I'm guilty of it as well. You get in the pattern and you just keep doing what you do because you know it and it gets you through it. But it's the risk. It's the trial and error that makes us grow. Bridge was a risk when people took it, when the two organizations did it, and even when they hired me, it was a risk. I was unknown to them. So it's. It's. You've got to take the risk. You've got. Great lesson.
- [19:14]
C
Definitely. Don, I want to ask about. Okay, you. You've. You've planned, I don't know how many events over the years and been involved in them. And we know certainly as well that when you're planning an event, it may look wonderful and smooth on the surface, but there's always stuff happening behind the scenes, like that analogy of the duck. You know, the duck on the surface and coddling furiously. What do you have any stories of scary moments or. Oh, the. Oh, my God, almost went completely wrong. And just in time, we got in there.
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A
I. I've probably forgotten more scary moments than I can remember. I. Again, I've had a blessed career, Ronnie, and I've been able to work some with some amazing celebrities and entertainers and politicians from, you know, Tony Bennett and Wayne Newton and Randy Owen and. And Keith Urban and I mean, just more celebrities and the politicians from Ted Kennedy and the King of Jordan and congressmen and senators and just blessed. But the scary moments come. Oh, my gosh, let's see. We've had moments with presidents and having lockdowns. We've had moments with a keynote saying the day before he's supposed to appear, he decided not to fly out. We've had fires. I've been in seven hotel fires.
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B
That's not a figurative comment, by the way. That's not a figurative stat.
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A
No, it's not.
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B
That is far more when we think figuratively.
- [21:10]
A
Yes, exactly. That is. That is. Evacuate now. Yeah. So, Ronnie, one of the things that I tell my staff is that we always have to plan for what we can so that when we walk into that venue, if something hits us, we know what our baseline is. If we're trying to still do things that we should have done before we walked in the door, then that's going to make resolution that Much more difficult. So walking in the door, we plan and do everything we possibly can because again, we never know what the potential is and we never know what's going to hit us. So, yeah, there have been scary moments. Scary. Some of them I do intentionally try to forget.
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B
I mean, even the minor ones. Donna, you know, in 2023, as, as one of your two CO chairs, there were a couple times during the event where there was something that was happening and, and I would, you know, I tried to just check in and stay connected to you throughout the days there. And you would turn to me and say this and this and this are happening and, and I tend to roll with the punches pretty well. But I was caught off guard at some of the things that happened behind the scenes that are little, you know, figurative fires. And then. But your response was always. And we got it. Like it's all good. We got it. And so it's remarkable how you and the incredible team around you have persistently navigated those things well.
- [22:49]
A
Thank you. One of the things we try to do is not panic. I mean, even with hotel fires, one fire I won't name, the hotel in the D.C. area, as a matter of fact, had just seated 1100 people for a dinner. Waitstaff was coming out with the salads and the fire alarms go off. The only way I could get everybody's attention was to stand in the middle of a table and say, please stay calm. And this is what you do. Staying calm is very, very, very important. And always focus on not to blame, but resolution, resolution first. Then we'll figure out what we need to do so that it doesn't happen again later. But resolution always first.
- [23:41]
B
So your, your bridge hat is just one of the hats that you wear in the sector. And you've also for a number of years served as the executive director of DMAW and, and just reflect for us a little bit about like wearing that hat and, and certainly the seasons of DMAW that the chapters that have, have been written and how you're thinking about this next chapter of dmaw.
- [24:11]
A
Yeah, it, I have to tell you, I, I love DMAW first. I think they have a great mission in educating non profits and fundraisers and direct response marketers. And when I first started with them, they were still kind of straddling that world between the for profit world and the nonprofit world. And you know, businesses have changed. The Internet changed everything. And so dmaw, as it continued to evolve, it changed a lot. It used to be all about the for profit sector and we had banks and credit cards and car dealers as our members. And, you know, they were big mailers at the time. But once the Internet started to change the way people were doing business, it changed the way marketing was happening. So by the time I came on the scene, ironically, the same year that I started working on Bridge in 2007, DMAW was again straddling those two fields. And we couldn't seem to get that grounding, if you will, back in that for profit world. And we were attracting more and more of the nonprofit sector, so we went that direction. It's one of those things where the market's never wrong. That's the way the market was taking us. And so that's the way we went. And it's been a bit of an evolution because it, you know, when we first, when I first started with them, we didn't have monthly lunches, we didn't have regular programming. There was a lot of change, if you will. We were trying to figure it all out with them. I was trying to figure it all out with them, but we finally got on a good track. And every year we've made changes. Every year it's evolved a little bit differently. We put that stake a little deeper into the ground of what we want to do and the mission and our. And this sector we want to serve. And of course, as you know, we now 100% nonprofit sector. So it's been a. It's been an interesting evolution and an interesting ride. And watching it, watching DMAW grow as the. The. Our market has changed has been really fun and exciting because there's. I think there's so much more for us to do out there. I think we have got more opportunity than we possibly can even imagine right now. So it's. It's been great. It's been great.
- [26:58]
C
It's been great for the sector too. I mean, the work the MAW does is just fantastic.
- [27:05]
A
Oh, thank you, Ryan.
- [27:06]
C
Yeah. When you're not busy with DMAW planning bridge, other events, you keep yourself pretty busy. But what do you do during your downtime? Do you have hobbies? Do you have what?
- [27:22]
A
I have a husband and a dog. And the thing that I like to do most, and I'm afraid Justin can even testify a little bit to this, as I love to bake. So when I get an opportunity to bake, I'm in the kitchen baking cakes and pies and whatever I can get my hands on to throw some eggs in and flour and let's see what comes out.
- [27:53]
B
I was curious if cheesecake was gonna make an appearance as a part of our conversation, you know, or. Or some butternut squash soup.
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A
Follow up.
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C
Road show, I believe.
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A
Yes, yes, we can take this on the road. Yes. I. I love. Oh, my butternut squash soup. Love to make my soups. My tomato basil soup. Yeah, yeah.
- [28:17]
B
And Ronnie, we.
- [28:19]
A
Go ahead.
- [28:19]
B
We had a. We had a. There's an annual DMAW board retreat that has historically been held at Donna's house. And. And so there's. There's. She has an incredible space that can accommodate the full board in terms of planning and stretching out and whiteboards, et cetera, et cetera. But she also, you know, helps provide food for a good portion of the time together. And this year, I came upstairs from the meeting space and I came around the corner and Donna was in like the full chef's co coat. Not. Not just apron, like, just like, it was the most official looking. I was like, wait, it like had the pin and the pocket and. And yeah, wore it well.
- [29:13]
A
Thank you. Thank you. I have. I get a lot of fun out of that. I love to entertain.
- [29:18]
B
Yeah. Well, Donna, we. We really appreciate you making time to peel back a little bit of your story for us and for the ongoing work that you do with all the various hats and aprons that you wear on behalf of the sector. You know, that abundance mindset is important for us to keep fostering, and we love the way that you do it through the work that you do.
- [29:49]
A
Well, thank you. Thank you. I say that language shapes our reality, which it does, but our actions tell people who we are. And so I always want to be able when I do something that it. It's meaningful to me and it's my authentic self. So thank you, Justin. Group Thinkers is a production of RKD Group. For more information, including how you can partner with RKD to accelerate growth for your fundraising and nonprofit marketing needs needs, visit rkdgroup.com.