Episode Summary: "When Play Becomes a Leadership Strategy"

Podcast: RKD Group: Thinkers
Date: March 12, 2026
Host: Justin McCord (A), with Ronnie Richard (B)
Guest: Gary Ware (C), Founder of Breakthrough Play, author of Playful: Maximize Workplace Success through the Power of Play

Episode Overview

This engaging episode explores how play—often dismissed as frivolous or juvenile—can become a powerful leadership and workplace strategy, especially for nonprofit professionals. Guest Gary Ware, a recognized leader in applied improvisation and organizational creativity, shares his journey from agency burnout to founding Breakthrough Play, offering concrete strategies for reframing play as a vital tool for innovation, connection, and well-being. The conversation is energetic, insightful, and full of practical examples for nonprofit leaders eager to combat burnout and build stronger, more joyful teams.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Childhood “Troublemaking” as Superpower

[00:43-02:11]

• The episode opens with the hosts sharing personal stories of getting in trouble at school—for talking, goofing off, and procrastination—and reframing these as latent superpowers.
• Gary’s philosophy is highlighted: “Maybe sometimes the things that you got in trouble for most as a kid...are actually your superpowers and the things that make you really good later in life.” (A, 01:23)

2. Introduction to Gary Ware

[02:15-02:55]

• Gary is described as a “bundle of joy” whose infectious energy is rooted in his work on play as a counterbalance to high-stress workplace cultures.
• He’s recognized for pushing boundaries and honored by organizations like Culture Amp as a leader in the future of work.

3. The Journey to Breakthrough Play

[07:32-13:07]

• Gary started in marketing, aspiring to be a “Don Draper of digital marketing,” before co-founding a digital agency dedicated to “doing good, being great.”
• Burnout, misaligned values with business partners, and a personal crisis in 2018 (being bought out, losing his home) became transformative catalysts.
• A push from his wife led Gary to pursue his passion for play and team-building, giving himself two years to make it work.
  Quote:

“I guess, sometimes it's desperation...The universe had to just smack you in the face.” (C, 07:32)

4. Building a Playful Career

[13:16-19:04]

• Gary’s early workshops, dubbed “complimentary recess,” offered free team sessions in exchange for testimonials and feedback.
• Conferences became a key channel for scaling his impact—until the pandemic disrupted everything in 2020.
• Pivoting to virtual formats, Gary launched pay-what-you-can online improv for burned-out professionals and led a unique cross-generational program pairing kids in Nigeria with elders in the Bay Area.

5. Improv as the Gateway to Playful Leadership

[19:04-23:06]

• Gary’s improvisation journey started as a “hack” to overcome stage fright and improve public speaking—funded as professional development by his employer.
• The joy and presence of improv deeply influenced Gary and his teams, building confidence, trust, and resilience.
• Improv creates low-stakes environments for practicing risk-taking and thinking on your feet—akin to a “brain gym.”
  Quote:

“My improv classes were on Mondays...I was excited because improv. And it wasn’t until years later that I learned about the neuroscience...When you have something that you’re looking forward to, it makes everything else better.” (C, 19:15)

6. Combating Burnout in Nonprofits Through Play

[25:12-27:17]

• Play and rest are often seen as rewards for productivity, but Gary argues for a paradigm shift:

“We work from a place of rest, not work to rest...We're conditioned to work, work, work, but if you're burnt out, how can you pour from your cup?” (C, 25:52)

• Referencing neuroscience, Gary explains that tired brains make bad decisions and that play is essential for high-quality, creative work.

7. “Playful Rebellion” and Reframing Work

[28:25-32:36]

• Gary’s book, Playful Rebellion, challenges traditional workplace norms by advocating for intrinsic motivation and purposeful play—key drivers of high-performing teams.
• The concept is not to rebel against work, but to rebel against broken work cultures.
  Quote:

“The opposite of play isn't work. The opposite of play is depression. And most adults are suffering from a thing called play deprivation.” (C, 29:20)

8. Personal Play, Hobbies & Joy

[32:36-37:28]

• Gary candidly discusses struggling to find hobbies outside his work, discovering the joy of 3D printing as a new creative outlet.
• He describes a 30-day challenge to print something new each day, culminating with a “thick,” fully movable, 1-foot-tall LEGO Batman.
  Quote:

“I have this challenge...3D printing something new every day for 30 days...the finale...a LEGO Batman that is over a foot tall and this boy is thick and its limbs and whatnot move.” (C, 36:19, 37:05)

9. Recognition and Validation

[38:17-39:57]

• Gary reflects on the importance of recognition—in agencies for new business, as a solopreneur for validation.
• Recently named among the “Top 25 Emerging Culture Creators” by Culture Amp, Gary views the honor as proof that his “troublemaking” nature is in fact his superpower.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Reframing Trouble:

  “The things that you got in trouble for in school, that's your superpower. You just didn't know how to harness it.” (C, 38:51)

• On Burnout and Mission-Driven Work:

  “If you are burnt out, if your cup is not full, how can you pour from it?” (C, 26:46)

• On Play Deprivation:

  “The opposite of play isn’t work. The opposite of play is depression.” (C, 29:20)

• On Recognition:

  “To show the hard work that I've done...is shining...People found it valuable. To get recognized by Culture Amp...that was a big honor.” (C, 38:51)

• On Finding New Hobbies:

  “Do I not have a hobby? ... And for Christmas, my wife gave me a 3D printer...and that has been my obsession.” (C, 32:47)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:43-02:11 — Childhood trouble as superpower & playful reframing
• 07:32-13:07 — Gary’s journey from agency life to Breakthrough Play
• 13:38-19:04 — Early experiments, pandemic pivot, and virtual play
• 19:04-23:06 — Improv as a transformational leadership tool
• 25:12-27:17 — Advice for nonprofit leaders on burnout and the importance of play
• 28:25-32:36 — The concept of “playful rebellion” and play in high-performing teams
• 32:36-37:28 — Gary’s personal play journey and the discovery of 3D printing
• 38:17-39:57 — Recognition by Culture Amp and harnessing your superpowers

Final Thoughts

This episode delivers both inspiration and actionable ideas for nonprofit leaders and marketers seeking resilience, creativity, and connection. Gary Ware’s story is a testament to the transformative power of play—and he offers a compelling case for play as an essential leadership strategy, not just a distraction or luxury.

Interested in learning more about Gary Ware or Breakthrough Play? Visit breakthroughplay.com or read his book, Playful: Maximize Workplace Success through the Power of Play.