Podcast Summary — RKD Group: Thinkers

Episode: You can’t surge trust: Lessons in community & philanthropy with Tim Sarrantonio
Date: May 29, 2025
Host(s): Justin McCord, Ronnie Richard
Guest: Tim Sarrantonio, Director of Community Engagement at Neon One and Chair of the Fundraising Effectiveness Project

Episode Overview

This episode features a lively and thought-provoking conversation with Tim Sarrantonio, a leader in nonprofit data, community engagement, and sector innovation. The discussion revolves around the necessity of authentic community, the evolution of philanthropy and giving data, and the critical lesson that trust cannot be quickly created—or "surged." Tim shares both personal and professional stories to highlight how community, vulnerability, and intentionality are the keys to addressing sector challenges like declining donor numbers and fleeting donor loyalty.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Tim's Personal Journey and Motivation

• The Importance of Community from Personal Loss
  Tim reflects on the soundtrack of his life, the transformative impact of losing his father, and how beauty and connection often grow out of pain and vulnerability.

  “Community is born in many ways through the beauty that comes through the pain. You kind of have to go through it. ... It’s that fear of vulnerability…that drives me.” — Tim, [09:06]

• Origin of Community Focus
  Tim traces his engagement work back to his time working in Chicago, initially at a grassroots worker center. His belief in community is rooted in labor history, mutual aid, and real on-the-ground connections, not just academic knowledge.

  “Community is just finding common ground on how you want life to look like, in my opinion.” — Tim, [15:25]

The State of Philanthropy: Data and Trends

• Fundraising Effectiveness Project (FEP)
  Tim outlines FEP as the largest U.S. benchmarking initiative on individual giving. He notes a persistent narrative: “dollars up, donors down,” and argues for rethinking the conversation beyond just money, focusing on individual participation and identity.

  “The soundtrack…isn’t dollars up, donors down. Yes, that is the same damn thing we keep hearing. How can we rethink that?” — Tim, [17:32]

• Everyday Donors Matter Most
  Most giving comes from everyday people, not high net-worth individuals or mega-foundations. The sector obsesses too much over major donors and neglects the 96.9% of donors who give under $5,000 yearly ([18:07]).

• Neon One Generosity Report
  He highlights new ways to measure affinity, suggesting scoring donors for their relationships and affinities, not just wealth. This approach fosters genuine connections and invites broader participation.

  “People chase the dollar and they don’t focus on the person and the relationship. And so, we built a feature that scores affinity…as identity really emerges as the strongest indicator of affinity.” — Tim, [19:50]

Community, Generosity, and "Reciprocal Generosity"

• Beyond Transactional Relationships
  Tim and the hosts discuss how fundraisers often treat engagement as a “series of post-it notes”—a checklist of transactions—rather than building real, two-way relationships.

  “We are not trained to lead and we’re not trained to lead with intention and goodwill. We’re trained to acquire and extract and that’s not working.” — Tim, [27:54]

• Reciprocal Generosity
  Quoting a dinner conversation, Tim emphasizes the importance of mutual giving—generosity that is reciprocal, not one-sided ([26:29]).

Technology, AI, and the Future

• AI's Role and Limits
  Tim shares skepticism over the hype around artificial intelligence, arguing that tech should support, not substitute, human connection and intentional giving.

  “Artificial intelligence can be transformative if we're focusing on the right stuff. The problem is…we’re not.” — Tim, [22:36]
  “That last mile of the marathon should be a human.” — Tim, [29:40]

• Future Paradigm Shift
  He predicts major sectoral change: “Everybody is making business decisions…on a paradigm that will be obsolete within probably…five years.” ([30:48]). This creates an opportunity for nonprofits to innovate and lead with creativity and integrity.

The Essential Role of Trust

• "You can’t surge trust"
  Tim shares a resonant insight from Reed Howard:

  “You can’t surge trust.” — [33:12]
  The lesson: true trust, essential for community and generosity, builds slowly and cannot be manufactured in moments of crisis.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Community:
  “Community is just finding common ground on how you want life to look like, in my opinion.” — Tim, [15:25]

• On the Narrative Trap:
  “The soundtrack…isn’t dollars up, donors down. Yes, that is the same damn thing we keep hearing. How can we rethink that?” — Tim, [17:32]

• On Philanthropy Identity:
  “When you close your eyes, folks, when you hear the word philanthropist, what do you see? ... It depends on the community that you’re coming from and the soundtrack that we’re playing in that.” — Tim, [21:17]

• On AI and Tech in Fundraising:
  “That last mile of the marathon should be a human.” — Tim, [29:40]

• On Leadership in Fundraising:
  “We are not trained to lead and we’re not trained to lead with intention and goodwill. We’re trained to acquire and extract and that’s not working.” — Tim, [27:54]

• On Trust:
  “You can’t surge trust.” — from Reed Howard, [33:12]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:07] — Tim’s Taekwondo community story and reflections on adult learning and humility
• [07:08] — Where Tim’s passion for community comes from
• [10:04] — The Chicago origin story and labor movement roots in Tim’s work
• [15:24] — Defining real community and the importance of shared vision
• [16:34] — Explanation of the Fundraising Effectiveness Project (FEP)
• [19:33] — Discussion about donor data, affinity vs. wealth, and Neon One’s Generosity Report
• [23:41] — Role of technology and AI, and why human connection still matters
• [26:29] — The concept of “reciprocal generosity” and its cultural significance
• [27:54] — Rethinking nonprofit relationship building; leading with intentionality vs. extracting value
• [33:12] — The key lesson: “You can't surge trust”

Podcast Tone and Style

The tone is friendly, candid, and occasionally humorous (including playful references to Taekwondo and Kermit the Frog). The conversation is steeped in empathy, curiosity, and a collaborative spirit. Both hosts thank Tim for his heartfelt leadership, vulnerability, and continued advocacy for authentic community-building and systemic change in the nonprofit sector.

Final Reflection

The episode calls listeners—especially nonprofit professionals—to reflect on their own motivations and the true meaning of generosity. The hosts and guest encourage a move away from transactional thinking, urging the rise of communities built on real trust, mutuality, and sustained engagement.

“I hope that others reflect and ask themselves what is the true meaning of generosity in their lives. And I think that if you really look in the mirror, the answers are going to be very obvious and that’s a beautiful thing.” — Tim, [36:26]