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Roadmap to Referrals
Ep #363: The Referral Snowball Effect
00:29:33
Join me as I chat with David Dedman, a seasoned financial planner with over 32 years of experience. Discover how David transformed his referral strategy from sporadic to sustainable by adopting a repeatable process. We explore the challenges he...
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- [00:00]
David Dedman
Foreign.
- [00:05]
Stacy Brown Randall
Hey there and welcome to the Roadmap to Referrals podcast, a show that proves you can generate referrals without asking or manipulation. I'm your host, Stacy Brown Randall. I'm a card carrying member of the Business Failure Club, have taught my Referrals Without Asking methodology and strategies to clients in more than 14 countries around the world. And my mission is to help you unleash, unleash a referral explosion by leveraging the science of referrals and respecting your relationships. I'm excited to welcome David Dedman to the show today. David is the founder of Pulse wealth and has been a financial planner for 32 years. He is also a member of the Building a Referable business coaching program. He just finished his first year. He has moved into our second year which is our referral master's program. So I've had the pleasure of not only working with David one year, but now we're in his second year. He has a very interesting journey and story and I think it's one that a lot of folks can resonate with even if you're not a financial planner. This is someone who's been in business three decades, right? And he obviously having that conversation of what this looks like for him to start generating referrals more consistently. It wasn't that he wasn't getting some, it's that there was no repeatable process to be consistent with those results. So if you've been in business a really long time and you think maybe the referral ship has sailed, maybe I should just be okay with getting one or two or those sporadic couple of referrals that I get. Think again. I can't wait for you to listen in on David's conversation with me as we talk about what it looked like the time it took and we get real like he literally used the words grindingly slow to describe the process in his first year. So we unpack all of that and why that is and why he was prepared that that was to happen. So it wasn't like he didn't know it was coming. And then of course, the results, the success that he's being able to experience because he's stuck with it as he moved early into his second year. So let's welcome David to the show. David, welcome to the podcast. It's always fun when I get to have a client come on and hang out with me and talk about their experience of what it's been like working with me. So before we dive into all things referrals and results and all the things, let's first. Make sure everybody understands a little bit more about your business.
- [02:42]
David Dedman
Okay. All right. Thanks for having me, Stacy. My name is David Dedman. I've been an advisor for 32 years, so been around a little while. Independent, 22 of those and a registered investment advisor for the last two years. My practice focuses on wealth management for a specific niche of medical sales professionals. These are people that are in sales of medical equipment, supplies, pharma, hospitals, and I focus on financial planning and investments for that specific niche for about the last eight years.
- [03:15]
Stacy Brown Randall
I really love that that's your niche because, I mean, I know we're going to get into this, so I'm like spoiler alert because I just want to talk about it now because you brought it up. But I love that you are in that niche because when we've been cultivating out your referral strategy and your plans and touch points and things like that, you knowing that that's who your clients are has been a huge part of of how we've been able to craft the right experience for them, whether they refer you or not, that client experience. And for those that are referral sources and you like being dialed into them and it being niche focused like that makes it, I think, a lot easier. So I have enjoyed, as we've talked through different things that we've done for your folks, it being very niche specific and us being able to be kind of creative in that way too. So I always think that's awesome. Okay, so let's talk about big picture first. We know referrals are important to most everybody. Not everybody, but most everybody. But it's also a personal reason for why referrals are important to people's businesses. So why are referrals so important to you?
- [04:19]
David Dedman
Well, I think referrals are really the layup of prospecting and financial services because essentially the referrer has them pre sold on working with you. It's just a much friendlier sort of prospect when you initially talk to them. You know, they're incredibly valued because people refer people also that are similar to them. So birds of a feather flock together kind of thing. So when I get a referral, nine times out of 10, it's another medical sales professional. So it's. It's just an easier pre sold friendlier situation.
- [04:57]
Stacy Brown Randall
Yeah, absolutely. All right, so when we first started working together, which would have been the end of 2023, and we are kind of looking at 2024 as your first year with me, but when you were making the decision to join the building a referable Business coaching program. What was your number one pain point?
- [05:17]
David Dedman
Just a lack of referrals and a process for developing the referral sources. Everybody tells financial advisors, oh, you know, work with CPAs and attorneys and get all these centers of influence. It's incredibly hard and the very few advisors that have been able to do that are successful. But it, it's hard cultivating four or five centers of influence, but just basically having a process. I had tried all kinds of different books on referrals over the last 30 years, tried different techniques, asking for advice, asking, not asking, and none of those really seemed to work for me long term. I'd get a few referrals after the initiation of a process and then it would kind of taper off. So I think that was probably the biggest thing for me is not having a definable repeatable process.
- [06:17]
Stacy Brown Randall
Right. You know, that's interesting that you say that because I think that when people ask me like, oh Stacy, who works with you? And I'm like, okay, there's. They fall into a couple of different industries, of course, but they have some commonalities, I think in terms of how they think. And I feel like financial planners, financial advisors. And also I would group those in with my real estate agents, which is like two categories. People are like, those two don't go together. But in this case it's more about how you've been over taught how to sell and how to generate referrals. There is not a tactic that I am assuming that a real estate agent or a financial planner hasn't been taught or read a book on or been told. This is the latest and greatest new thing you've got to do. Coming down from either your wholesalers or your corporate office or the wirehouse or whatever it is that they are over taught what it looks like to generate referrals. And they get to a point where, like you said, you've tried them all right, and they would initially work. Right? Because there's always some things that initially work, but that's not what nobody wants to try something brand new every year, every six months, to have an initial one or two referrals hit, that's exhausting. Like you, like you said, it's that repeatable process like what can I put in place and just work it because you know there's work involved, but run it at the same time and it be like the same strategy. So I mean, I guess on some level I would say thanks for giving BRB and me a shot because you definitely had been on the merry go round of Things in the past.
- [07:48]
David Dedman
So, yes, I think the way I found you was doing a search on Amazon for books on referrals. And then I read the book and did a search on the Internet and I thought, there's some great tips in here, but it's not everything. I need a coach, right.
- [08:09]
Stacy Brown Randall
And I love. You know, it's funny because everybody always asks me. They're like, oh, you teach referrals? I bet all of your clients come through referrals. I'm like, a lot of them do, but not all of them. I mean, writing a book and Amazon has been pretty good to me when they decide to like, show my. When they're, when they're liking me and they decide to show my book to folks. I get folks like you who find it and then say hello. So that's awesome. Okay, cool. So before we dive into results, and I know that is one thing that people are like, we want to know what's happening and we've got some good stuff to share. But I'm going to make everybody wait just for another minute because I want to make sure people understand. What are some of the AHAs, like those light bulb moments, the way it made you think different or see something different or something like just worked or whatever it was. But what were some of those aha moments you had in the work that you have done with me through our coaching program?
- [08:56]
David Dedman
I think, you know, just we talked about this a little bit earlier. You know, financial advisors are kind of notorious for wanting instant results with their marketing efforts. So they don't really want to wait around. They want to know how many clients they're going to get the first quarter, the first year before they even try something. So for me, I kind of fall into that category. So releasing control of asking for referrals, you know, put it in your agenda and talk about it at the end of your meetings and all of that. For me, it was believing that referrals will come without asking was a big aha for me. And that actually took, well, until the beginning of this year to see that the touch points did actually help with referrals and the relationship with that person. Even though I had great relationships with all my clients, there was still a training process of those clients to get them to refer. So there, there's, I guess, referral language and planting of seeds that, you know, I knew some of those techniques, but really getting those down pat and knowing them on a regular basis, those were big aha things for me.
- [10:13]
Stacy Brown Randall
Yeah. And so I wanted to set the stage here before we start talking about your results, this isn't like you haven't had a very successful practice for the 32 years you've been doing this, right? Just because you're here at this point and you're like, hey, I'm here and I want to learn referrals, you're like, you said, you've tried a lot of things. Your practice was kind of like what I like to call successful, in spite of the fact that it didn't really generate referrals, you know, in the dozens every year, like clockwork, like all financial planners, like you said, like, they all want. So it wasn't that you didn't get some referrals, it's just that they were heavily sporadic. Like, you could get one or two, and then you could go six or nine months without seeing another one, and then maybe you'd get like another one. So, you know, from that perspective, I always tell folks, if you've been in business longer than a year or two, I don't want people to judge themselves if they've only been in business a year or two and they're not getting any referrals. But if you've been in business for a couple of years or longer, like you, a couple of decades, and you are getting some referrals, like, that's a good thing because it tells us that you're referable, right? That there is, like, you're doing good work. Your clients aren't leaving you every year. Being like that was terrible, right? Like, so number one is you had consistency of clients. You had clients who'd been with you for years and years and years and decades, right? You were receiving some referrals, but they were highly sporadic, but just enough to prove to yourself that there's probably more there. You just didn't have the right methodology and the right strategies to actually produce what you were looking for. So it's not like you were completely starting from scratch. But the one conversation you and I had when we got started, and you know, I always do this with my financial folks when they come into the program, is you're not an attorney, you're not a consultant, you're not an interior designer. And so those fast results that you see people get, that's not going to be your reality. And you have to be okay with that at the start because this is going to take longer. This is like stepping back and like a little bit of, like what you said, like, releasing the control of it and realizing the strategy you are going to put in place are the ones that are going to produce results. But I always tell my financial planners, I'm not guaranteeing that you're going to, you know, get the number of referrals you want your first year. And I have found consistently with the financial planners I work with, it usually happens in year two. And that has been. I've been thinking about Andrew, who was in a program, our program, the coaching program, a couple years ago. He had some results. I mean, he hit his goal. I actually remember he hit his goal. But the ability for him to hit his goal and turn those into clients and get more referrals really took for him into year two. And it's kind of the case with you as well. So we had something to work with, but we also had decades of your clients loving you, but never really thinking of referring you.
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David Dedman
Right?
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Stacy Brown Randall
Just getting one or two right every, like, six to nine months or every year or whatever. It's not really like, it's not a part of how they think. When they think about you, they think about loving you and sticking with you. And that's great, but not necessarily making that next step, that making that leap over the gap of getting them to the point where they will refer you. So that's one thing I just want to make sure that people understand. Listening to this episode and listening to our conversation is kind of where you were starting from. Strong practice, great practice. Clients been with you for a while, like years and years and decades in some cases. Stick around, you get some referrals, but very, very sporadic. And I would say that your first year in the coaching program mirrored years prior before you join the coaching program, because you got absolutely right. You got around three referrals. So it wasn't the, you know, the heavens opened up and then all these referrals came rushing down in your first year. Like, that's the reality. And so I'm just curious, like, do you remember the conversation? I mean, I know we've had it twice, but do you remember the conversation we had when you first joined? And I was like, you've got to be prepared to go slow.
- [14:09]
David Dedman
Yeah, I think it. It was a situation where I thought, yeah, she's just telling me that I'll get, you know, 15 or 20, but, you know, I'll just kind of set my goal at six, which I think, you know, that's a couple every quarter. I think most financial advisors would be happy with that. You know, even at a halfway decent closing rate, that's a few extra clients a year. And then, you know, you have your other marketing initiatives but, yeah, I mean, I remember you telling me that this is going to be a long process. You have to. What financial advisors have to understand. They really have to forget all of the stupid crap that they've been taught, because, you know, asking for advice, you know, how would you get more clients like yourself? You know, that was stuff that I was taught at another large brokerage firm. It was somewhat successful, but, you know, and I think a lot of the referrals I got were purely incidental. When somebody was happy with something I did, they would say, oh, yeah, you know, my neighbor needs to talk to you, or my cousin needs to talk to you. So, you know, I think, you know, with all of that, that it. It was a process that was grindingly slow. It's a building of things because you can't expect to just start with that first quarter. And all of a sudden people are like, oh, yeah, you know, he wants referrals. Let's give him a couple of referrals. It takes a lot longer than that. A lot longer.
- [15:39]
Stacy Brown Randall
Well, and that's because we are trying to get your clients to subconsciously and consciously think of you differently. And we're doing it in a way that's going to honor and protect that relationship. You know, I have financial advisors who will tell me from time to time, they'll be like, you know, I have asked in the past, and sometimes it'll produce results for me, but then I have to remember to ask. And I don't always like asking, and I don't want to be asking. Every single time I see that same client, I was like, and the other thing you're not paying attention to, even when you do ask, and maybe you've asked 15 people. Over the course of a quarterly update with folks, you've asked 15 different people. You've got one or two that referred you. You have no idea the damage that you've done to the relationship and how that those other 13 clients see you in that perspective. And if you have to ask somebody to refer you and they do it, and then they never do it again, clearly that's not what it's taking to get them to refer you to more without you having to be the trigger, which is you having to ask them. Because then what if you stop asking them? Or what if, you know, you're not around to think about asking them or you forget to ask them. And so I think that's the other thing that people don't think about. They're like, hey, if I ask, I may get a couple of referrals it's like, do you close them? Is always the first question. Do you get quality? Is the second question. And the third question is, is that everybody that you asked that didn't do anything, do you have any idea how that impacted the relationship you have with them? Some may be nothing, but the science shows us that actually it does, it does impact folks. And so that's why I always teach folks to move away from that asking and don't ask and do it a different way so that you can just show up differently to your clients or in some cases to your centers of influence or to the people who should be your referral sources. Okay, so I know when we're thinking about your results, so let's talk about that because I know people are like, okay, then what does it look like if it went slow? You remember we had the conversation. It's you are starting in the program. This is going to be slower than you want it to be. Are you okay with that? Are you on board? And you were like, yes. And then it was, I think your exact spot there was grindingly slow. So, yeah, it was grindingly slow. As you work through your first year and the VRB coaching program and we, you know, you got two or three, whatever it was, referrals, which wasn't very different from any year prior. And we had that, that conversation again, you're like, okay, I know, grindingly slow. It's going to be slow, right? And I said, you got to be committed to getting through that second year and then judge however you want to judge from that perspective. And so it makes me very happy to be able to report that as you moved into your second year, first quarter of your second year, which is actually first quarter of 2025, you got six referrals. So you got in one quarter and one three month period what your original goal was for your first year and you got it in three months. You got six referrals. And these were good referrals because you closed three of them into brand new clients. So again, I, when I tell folks it takes time, I know when people put in the work, I always say there is a pot of gold at the end of your rainbow, right? Like figuratively, right? But also literally, I guess too, there is a pot of gold at your end of your rainbow. But what I don't know is how long it's going to take for you to get to the end of that rainbow. Like, I don't know, because this is a little bit different, right, than trying to manipulate an algorithm. We are Dealing with humans here. And we have to do that in a special way. So when you were looking at your results and so you were on a quarter two call with us. So you're in your second year. So you're in our referral master's program after you graduate from brb, moved into our referral master's program in your second year. You're on our quarterly call. You're giving that information. How did that feel?
- [19:18]
David Dedman
It's great. I mean, I think it. It absolutely happened at the right time for me mentally. And I think if I was going to give advice to another financial advisor, you just, you just have to trust the process, do the touch points, be creative, follow through on all of it. Because if you don't, then it's going to take longer than a year. And all of those things build all of your referral language. You know, if you're sending little gifts or if you're having seminar, webinar, whatever the case may be, you know, it just takes time. And I just kind of robotically went through the. Went through the process and thought, okay, I'm just going to trust this process. It wasn't till about the year point that you and I had a conversation about, oh, my God, is this ever going to happen? You know, I wasn't ready to give up because I'm not typically the type of person that gives up. I tend to stick with it forever. So, you know, just trusting the process, going through it, I know it, it's going to feel like, why am I doing this? Why am I spending money for this? Spending money for the touch points, doing things for clients. And nobody's referring me. They will eventually refer you if you do the work. And I told you at the beginning, you know, you said, well, David, as long as you do the work. And I said, look, I'm going to do the work. I'll put in the time and effort to do what needs to be done. And it's just a. It's just a process that takes a little bit of time. You can't. I mean, steering a group of clients in financial services is like being the captain of the Titanic. You know, you don't just turn this thing on a dime. It takes a little bit of time. So.
- [21:14]
Stacy Brown Randall
And you. And you gave it that time, which is important. I think the other thing, and I do want to mention this, when we had that call, that conversation at the end of your first year, and I was like, it's going to take time, right? Yeah, right. You can't give up. And Then you and I had this conversation about. And you also have to remember how you felt when you first started, which is not just that I'm going to do the work, right? It's like, I didn't have concerns about your willingness to do the work. Once I saw you start doing the work, I'm like, he's going to do the work. But then you actually had to believe it, right? You had to shift your mindset around the process. And I think that also helped as you moved out of year one into year two. I think that also helped because people are like, oh, you just change your mindset and things happened. No, it doesn't work exactly like that. It's like you change your mindset, you brought a different intentionality to what you were doing, and then that allowed the trickle effect to actually start as well, because you showed up differently even when doing some of those touch points. So I think it is doing the work. It's also trusting the process and shifting your mindset. And then when those things are in alignment. And it's hard to be, like, trusting the process when you're nine months in, you're like, I haven't really seen anything quite yet happen. But when you get to that point, right? Like, that's most important. It's like, okay, now I'm. Now I see it. You're like, oh, but you also, you got to trust it. You got to believe it. Because even though you had an amazing first quarter, right? In your second year, first quarter, your second year, six referrals, right? Great quarter. Close three of them. That doesn't mean you're automatically guaranteed six referrals in quarter two or quarter three or quarter four, right? You could get more, you could get less. You could. You will, definitely. I always tell folks, I'm like, once you start having some results, you are going to experience a little bit of a drought. Like, all of a sudden you'll have some time. You're like, wait, I got all these referrals and then I didn't, right? Because it's like. It's like looking for that consistency of your actions, right? Looking for that consistency of the. You don't give up. This is just how I do it. And I know that it's working. And I've got to trust and I've got to release my expectations of when it will happen and just know that it is going to happen. And that's a different mindset that I think people have to be able to shift into. So as you kind of looked like what the first Year was like how the second year has started. What are you most hopeful about within your business when it comes to referrals as you move forward in the future?
- [23:36]
David Dedman
Just, you know, some consistency with this, with referrals. You know, I don't mean consistently getting, you know, like we just said, not six referrals a quarter, but having a consistent process. I'm hopeful that, that, that will breed results. There will be new clients that come on board as a result of being referrals that will be more open to the referral process. The people that refer will bear fruit and refer people as well. And it just continues to kind of build on itself. So I guess the analogy is a rocket expends 90% of its fuel on takeoff. And that's really the way you got to look at this whole referral process and brb, because for a financial advisor, that's absolutely true. I spent 90% of my fuel in the first year. So now I have all the processes and all the systems and I know the referral language and I know touch points that I want to have. And it's just a matter of how creative that I want to be with that stuff. But at least I have all the tools to do it.
- [24:45]
Stacy Brown Randall
Yeah, I think that having the tools, feeling the sense of understanding what that looks like for you from a creative perspective, but also consistency. And that's just one thing I don't worry about with you.
- [24:57]
David Dedman
Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of stuff to digest. You've got to forget all of the bad habits. And then there's quite a few working parts to this. And mastering those takes six to 12 months pretty much anyway.
- [25:13]
Stacy Brown Randall
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so what would you say to someone, let's say you're talking to another financial planner and you were talking about this program and working with me. What would you say to them as to why they should join the program?
- [25:29]
David Dedman
You just have to do it. The only thing you have to lose are the referrals and the definitive process for getting them. So, you know, there are subtle differences about this approach that you teach that can make a huge difference. Just the way you say things or just the way you write things on a thank you note. That's some of the things that I learned. So it's probably not just one thing, but it's a culmination of a lot of things. Language, touch points, some creativity. And you really help me with the creativity part. And then listening in with. With other people in different walks of life and different jobs and stuff, and. And what they're Doing creatively was really cool, too.
- [26:12]
Stacy Brown Randall
Yeah. I think the community aspect you undervalue in the beginning because you're like, drinking from a fire hose a little bit, let's be honest. You're trying to get things in place for yourself, and then as you start getting things in place for yourself and you're moving through that first year, I think that community aspect is. You're like, oh, I see how they're doing it that way. I don't do what they do, but I can pull a piece from that or I can pull a piece for that. And I. That's why, like, as people finish their first year in the coaching program and they move it, and they. If they choose to move into, like, the continuation, the extension program, which is referral masters, and they can do that for year two and beyond. Those dialogues, those conversations, those questions they heard, and sometimes drastically different from the questions that are asked by people in their very first year, because you're just at different places. And I think that that is a valuable piece. It's not a piece that everybody needs, but that's a valuable piece for people as they're moving into year two and beyond. I mean, Erin's in referral Masters, and she's been with me, like, six years, and it's like. It's that idea of an accountability, the structure, but also that community piece of, like, this is how others are doing it.
- [27:21]
David Dedman
Yeah.
- [27:21]
Stacy Brown Randall
Awesome.
- [27:21]
David Dedman
Yeah. And losing out on that is a bit, I think, is a big deal. I mean, I. We just did one of these meetings the other maybe a week ago or so, and I got a great idea from another person that's not a financial advisor. That would work great for my clients. So. Yeah.
- [27:40]
Stacy Brown Randall
Yeah, that's. That's, I think, the key of us learning. It's like you get it and then you expand on it, and it really helps to have other people talk about what they're doing. So, yeah, I come. Well, I completely agree, of course, but let's be honest, I'm super biased. I'm not sure how valuable that is. All right, well, David, thank you for taking the time to hang out with me today on the podcast and to share your experience as you are now in year two, working with me, what you thought, what it looked like getting started, and, of course, the results you're having now. I definitely appreciate you being here, so thank you for your time.
- [28:15]
David Dedman
Yeah. Thanks, Stacy, for having me.
- [28:18]
Stacy Brown Randall
It was awesome to have David on the episode with me today, and I hope you enjoyed this real look at what it can look like to build sustainable, repeatable patterns of referrals in your business, else it's not always going to happen in your first 30 days. And being honest about that and real about that is something that I pride myself on. And I appreciated David coming on and telling his story, being honest with that, to kind of explain what that looks like. So if you want to connect with David, you can find his website and connect with him on social media. All of that will be on the Show Notes page for this episode, which you can find at staceybrownrandall.com forward/360 and don't forget Stacy has an E. We're back with another great episode next week, created with you and your needs in mind. Until then, you know what to do, my friend. Take control of your referrals and build a referable business. Bye for now.
- [29:22]
David Dedman
Sam.