Ep #373: Founder-Led Companies Need a Referral Strategy

Summary

Roadmap to Referrals: Ep #373 – Founder-Led Companies Need a Referral Strategy

Host: Stacey Brown Randall
Guest: Raul Hernandez, Do Good Work Podcast
Release Date: August 5, 2025

In the latest episode of the Roadmap to Referrals podcast, Stacey Brown Randall welcomes Raul Hernandez from the Do Good Work podcast for a compelling discussion on why founder-led companies need a robust referral strategy. This episode delves deep into transforming traditional referral approaches, emphasizing authentic relationship-building over transactional tactics.

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Challenging Traditional Referral Mindsets

Raul initiates the conversation by addressing the prevalent belief that referrals must be solicited directly or incentivized. He asks Stacey to dismantle these limiting beliefs, prompting her to share insights on how referrals can naturally flow without overt asking or manipulation.

Stacey Brown Randall [02:29]:
"You know what's really interesting about why people believe you're supposed to ask for referrals? It isn't because they've actually done it themselves and realized, oh my gosh, it works incredibly well. This is why I should be asking. It's because it's what we've been told for decades and decades and decades."

Stacey explains that the conventional advice to ask for referrals stems from outdated sales strategies that focus heavily on prospecting and marketing. She emphasizes that this approach often leads to gimmicky tactics that fail to foster genuine relationships.

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Reframing the Sales Strategy: Introducing the Three-Legged Stool

Stacey breaks down the traditional two-part sales strategy—prospecting and marketing—and introduces a transformative concept: adding referrals as a third essential component. This metaphorical "three-legged stool" underscores the importance of treating referrals as a distinct and vital element of business growth.

Stacey Brown Randall [04:25]:
"The truth is your sales strategy is not a two-legged stool, it's a three-legged stool and referrals as its own leg. And you should pull referrals away from prospecting and away from marketing."

By segregating referrals from prospecting and marketing, businesses can develop a dedicated referral strategy that focuses on nurturing relationships with referral sources rather than merely seeking out new prospects.

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Understanding the End User: Shifting Focus to Referral Sources

A pivotal revelation in the discussion is recognizing that the end user of a referral strategy is not the prospect but the referral source itself. Stacey highlights that effective referral strategies prioritize strengthening and deepening relationships with those who can provide referrals.

Stacey Brown Randall [04:25]:
"The end user of everything we do with our referrals plan is actually for the referral source and it is about strengthening and deepening their relationship with them."

This shift ensures that referral strategies are built on mutual respect and appreciation, fostering a more organic flow of referrals without the need for direct solicitation.

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Building a Sustainable Referral Plan

Stacey underscores the importance of sustainability in referral strategies. She shares a success story of an attorney who, by implementing a structured referral plan, significantly increased her referrals over six years. This example illustrates that a well-crafted referral strategy can yield compounding benefits over time.

Stacey Brown Randall [10:58]:
"I think this is a strategy that you can build within a half a day if you have the right roadmap and you know exactly what you're doing, exactly what the strategy is supposed to look like, you can build it quickly and you can start implementing it."

Stacey outlines three foundational steps for a high-level referral strategy:

1. Be Referable: Ensure your business delivers exceptional value and a seamless client experience.
2. Identify Referral Sources: Clearly understand who is referring clients to you.
3. Create a Referral Plan: Develop a system to nurture and take care of your referral sources consistently.

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Psychological Benefits Over Monetary Incentives

The discussion pivots to the psychological aspects of referrals, emphasizing genuine appreciation over monetary incentives. Stacey argues that non-monetary gestures, such as personalized thank-you notes or featuring referral sources on a podcast, can more effectively strengthen relationships.

Stacey Brown Randall [20:25]:
"Absolutely. I mean, I think about those moments when you are faced with a decision of how to take care of your referral sources. It's usually not the way we think, right? Usually people are like, how much money am I supposed to spend? I'm like, ah, this isn't like the, I got to give them referrals, right?"

She cautions against using financial incentives, highlighting potential negative perceptions and the risk of devaluing the referral relationship.

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Transforming Relationships into Lasting Partnerships

Stacey emphasizes that the core of an effective referral strategy lies in transforming business relationships into lasting partnerships grounded in trust and mutual respect. She likens referral sources to family members—those you genuinely care about and want to protect.

Stacey Brown Randall [19:40]:
"Ultimately, how they're built and how they're wired, it's just not how they've been taught or trained. And so we got to unpack some of the damage done so they can really look at their referral sources in the right way."

This mindset shift is crucial for founder-led companies aiming to cultivate a steady stream of referrals without resorting to manipulative tactics.

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Implementing the Referral Plan: Consistency and Authenticity

Consistency and authenticity are highlighted as key components in executing a successful referral plan. Stacey advises that regular, meaningful interactions with referral sources help maintain top-of-mind awareness and reinforce genuine relationships.

Stacey Brown Randall [27:17]:
"It's like my referral plan is the cadence and the rhythm of how I'm going to stay top of mind, which is how often I'm going to do it, how what I'm going to do, which is to be memorable and meaningful... And then of course on the other side of that is making sure you're using the right language."

She advocates for a balanced approach that includes strategic touchpoints throughout the year, tailored to the unique dynamics of each referral relationship.

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Conclusion: Building Trust and Protecting Relationships

Raul and Stacey conclude by reinforcing the idea that a successful referral strategy is rooted in trust and the genuine desire to help others. By focusing on creating value for referral sources and fostering authentic connections, founder-led companies can achieve sustainable business growth through natural referrals.

Stacey Brown Randall [25:35]:
"At the end of the day, my referral sources know, no matter what, they are invaluable to me and that I care about them. And they can ask me for anything. And the answer is usually yes."

This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for founder-led businesses seeking to overhaul their referral strategies, promoting a model that prioritizes relationship-building and authentic engagement over traditional, transactional methods.

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Resources Mentioned:

• Stacey Brown Randall's Website: staceybrownrandall.com
• Growth by Referrals Program: Growth by Referrals
• Do Good Work Podcast: Do Good Work

For more insights and to implement these strategies in your business, visit Stacey Brown Randall's website and explore the Growth by Referrals program.

Transcript

[Stacy Brown Randall]

Hey there and welcome to the Roadmap.

To Referrals podcast, a show that proves you can generate referrals without asking or manipulation. I'm your host, Stacy Brown Randall. I'm a card carrying member of the Business Failure Club, have taught my Referrals Without Asking methodology and strategy to clients in more than 14 countries around the world. And my mission is to help you unleash a referral explosion by leveraging the science of referrals and respecting your relationships. Well, we have arrived where we have reached the final podcast takeover episode. This is the last one that we're doing for our podcast Takeover, and we are going out with a bang. Today we welcome Raul Hernandez of the Dr. Good Work podcast to interview me, which he did on his podcast about why founder led companies need a referral strategy. So I don't want to ruin it and I don't want to spill the beans on the why and everything that we talk about. So I'm going to save that. I don't want to spill the beans before. Should I say spill the tea before the interview. So let me hand it over to Raul so you can understand all the different pieces we dove into. If you're a founder led company about why having a referral strategy is so very important. And of course you're going to learn more about Raul and his podcast as well. Do good work. I mean, isn't that the best name for a podcast and the best name for a company? That's what he helps other companies do. So let's get to the interview with Raul.

[Raul Hernandez]

Hey, this is Raul Hernandez from the De Goodwear podcast. I'm doing a podcast Takeover of the Roadmap to Referrals podcast this week in this episode where I interviewed Stacey over on my podcast. And Stacy's always been super generous either doing private trainings for my group as well as here on the pod. Would love for you to listen to it and I'm excited for you to learn from Stacy.

Awesome. Well, Stacey, thank you so much for being on.

[Stacy Brown Randall]

Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me, Stacey.

[Raul Hernandez]

I'm really excited for today's topic simply because you're kind of taking the inverted of how to get referrals without actually asking for them, which seems like how can you possibly do that? So I'd like for you to like break our mindsets, limiting beliefs and it's like, how is this possible?

[Stacy Brown Randall]

You know what's really interesting about why people believe you're supposed to ask for referrals? It isn't because they've actually done it themselves and realized, oh my gosh, it works incredibly well. This is why I should be asking. It's because it's what we've been told for decades and decades and decades. And the majority of people, not everyone, but the majority of people, are like, okay, they tell me I have to ask, or they tell me I have to pay a commission or a kickback, or they tell me I have to be really overly promotional and gimmicky. All right, so let me try it. And then you're like, nope, that didn't work for me. And with thinking that referral only come because you asked for them and then realized, well, I don't want. So what does that leave you with? And that's the hope strategy. Well, I just hope some will show up. I just hope I get some. And if I do, that's great. And I have found that if you truly understand the how and why behind referrals, the human dynamic and the psychology behind why they happen, you'll realize that that old school kind of advice that you've been hearing for decades and decades doesn't really work. So it's so funny to me because most people are like, I don't want to ask. But then they don't know what else to do. So they do. They just leave it up to hope that, well, I'll get some and it'll be great, but it won't be something that I actually build a strategy around. And so it's always fun to see the light bulb go off when someone realizes, wait, I can get these referrals and I don't have to do the stuff that makes me uncomfortable.

[Raul Hernandez]

Yeah, I really love that because you're nailing it on the head. Because I know that. I've been told every 40 days, ask your referral partners for a referral. And then looking at when you're asking for the result or setting up referral partnerships is what is in it for them. And typically what's all like, in it for them? The easiest, okay, they get a X percentage of the end outcome or they get a nice little, like you mentioned, kickback. But let's talk about that strategy, though. So you're hitting more like the psychological benefits that happen when you're actually giving referrals and getting referrals. But can we dive into that and why referrals? Why you don't need to do all these things to get referrals.

[Stacy Brown Randall]

Yeah. So I think that if you, okay, let's unpack where that advice kind of comes from. Because Then I think it's really easy for us to understand how we should be doing it differently. So if you think about how we've been taught to set up our sales strategy, like how people have been teaching the concept of sales strategy for decades, it's that it's a two part plan, right? You've got to have your prospecting and you've got to have your marketing. And prospecting and marketing are good, right? I got no issues with those that you definitely should have. Prospecting, marketing. If you think about prospecting, it's a short term mentality, it's activities like cold calling, cold emailing, networking, 7 million cups of coffee, right? There's different things in different industries that you would do that's kind of more of that pounding the pavement type activities that you would do that would be considered prospecting. And the end user of all that activity is you're trying to get in front of the prospect. You're making those 40 phone calls to Cold Leads to see if one person will answer the phone and have a conversation with you, or sending out those cold emails or meeting with people for the first time, you know, for cups of coffee or meeting people at a networking event, you're hoping that the person you talk to will be a potential prospect. So the end user of all the prospecting activity is the prospect. On the marketing side, it's a little bit longer term mentality, but it's the same type of activities that we may do. It's the website, it's the social media post, it's the advertising, whether that's traditional or online, it's earned media pr, right? It's all the different things that you can do that build that brand reputation, that name recognition. But what we're ultimately doing at the, at the end of the day for our marketing, the end user of our marketing messaging is also the prospect. And so if I think about sales as a two legged stool, there is prospecting and marketing. And then I try to fit referrals into either of those two sides. Well then it makes sense that the advice that would be produced, which has actually been sold and packaged and now taught for decades, right? Is that, well, if I think about referrals and they fit within prospecting short term mentality, how do I get you as fast to the prospect as possible? Oh well, you just. It must be asking, right? It must be asking or it must be paying for them. That's where the asking and paying for advice comes from. It's thinking referrals fit within a prospecting mentality. If I look at marketing and I think referrals fit in marketing, well, then it's a little longer term mentality. But I'm just going to teach you to be more promotional, more gimmicky, right? And in some cases downright cheesy. It's things like putting an email signature line, I'm never too busy for your referrals or oh by the way, right. I'm never too busy for your referrals or your referrals are the greatest compliment that you can give me. Putting it in your social media posts, putting it in your email signature, putting it in your newsletters or doing things that are like in the real estate industry, I see this more than others, but it's like sending a bag of goldfish with a sign that says I'm fishing for your referrals. Right? It's doing things. I think referrals fit within marketing. Then I'm going to end up doing things. And the tactics and strategies, right, that I would be taught would be to be promotional and gimmicky. And so that's if we think that referrals fit within prospecting and marketing. That's where those tactics, that methodology, that philosophy comes from. The truth is your sales strategy is not a two legged stool, it's a three legged stool and referrals as its own leg. And you should pull referrals away from prospecting and away from marketing. And the minute you can see your referral strategy as separate from prospecting and separate from marketing, then you understand. Okay, wait. Everything then about my referrals and my referral strategy is different. And the biggest difference between your referrals, your referral plan and your prospecting or your marketing plan is who's the end user. So like we said in prospecting and marketing, the end user is the prospect. I make those cold calls to hope the prospect will answer the phone. I do that social media post to hope that someone will see it and click on it and then want to have a conversation. In referrals, the end user isn't the prospect because with referrals we don't know who the prospect is. Who do we know? Well, we know the referral source. And so the end user of everything we do with our referrals plan is actually for the referral source and it is about strengthening and deepening their relationship with them. It's about using the right language. So from a referral perspective, we call them referral seeds. But, but understanding that we're trying to impact how they feel about us in terms of How I want them to feel about me is I want them to feel that they know I'm thankful and I'm grateful and I'm appreciative of the referrals they do send me and that I don't take that lightly. And it isn't something I just expect for them. And so it is about taking the relationship with our referral sources and looking at, they're the hero, so let's treat them like they are, versus the mentality that says, hey, every 40 days you need to be asking your referral sources for referrals. That's making it about me, right? That's making that relationship about how does it serve me. But in reality, if I just take care of my referral sources, then I can actually be able to position how they think about me. So if I can impact how they feel about me by how I take care of them and let them know I'm thankful for their referrals, I can then direct how they think about me. And that means I can use the right language to get more referrals. Because the truth is, referrals happen when I remember you. Referrals happen when I'm in front of a situation where somebody who has a legitimate need that you can solve and I think to connect them with you. And so if we're taking care of our referral sources, not like, hey, it's been 62 days, let me send you a text message, but let me really impact how you know that I feel about you and how you feel about me. And they can do that throughout the course of a year and then do it next year and the next year and the next year. And it becomes a plan, it becomes a strategy, it becomes a process within our business for how we cultivate referrals. But it's a very targeted strategy, strategic process.

[Raul Hernandez]

I love that. And you, shots fired on some of the gimmicks and the tactics that you mentioned, especially with the emails. But I really like. I took your quiz. I took your quiz earlier and I like that you asked that question. I thought it was a trick question. Who is the end user? Who is the end outcome when your referral strategy, like, oh, is it the referral partner, is it. It's not the, it's not the prospect. So that was a, that's really good to be able to look at that. So now we're positioning ourselves as, as trusted advisors because obviously we have to, if they send us referrals, we have to deliver the results. We have to make sure that whoever they Send our way gives them good brand reputation. But this is more of a longer term strategy. What are some of the facets of that strategy that we should be thinking about? Because this is not just a, hey, I'm going to select five people and be nice to them. It's a very long term thinking. I'm thinking three to five years minimum within this kind of strategy.

[Stacy Brown Randall]

Well, so here's the thing. I think this is a strategy that you can build within a half a day if you have the right roadmap and you know exactly what you're doing, exactly what the strategy is supposed to look like, you can build it quickly and you can start implementing it. And of course I want you to have success implementing what I teach quickly. But to your point, I want this to be a way that you build sustainability in your business. So while it's great, right. I think I'm thinking about a specific student in my growth by referrals program as an attorney. You know, she had six referrals a year that came from one referral source. So she learned how to create more referral sources, so how to get more people to refer her and then to get more referrals from them. And so she went from six referrals in a year to ending that first year with 12 and then getting 27 the next year and then getting 33 the year after that. And then now in her six year last year, she got 47 referrals and she only needs about 12 to 15, which I think is a great position to be in, right? Because talk about being picky with the type of work that she was, the type of clients that she would take, but she's getting, she's in her seventh year of following this process. Like, hey, I've got my referral plan and I do it every year and I've got my referral sources and I know how to create new ones, right? When some referral sources, they don't stay on your list forever, right? I mean, it is not a static list, it is a fluid list. And so she knows how to build referral sources. It's a sustainable part of how she grows her business. And I think that's the piece that people miss. So yes, I want the sustainability to be there for you three, five, ten years from now. I also know everybody else thinks it's really important to have that short term success and get that ROI as quickly as possible. But. And I want both. I actually, I want both. I'm actually more interested in the long term success, right. I'm more interested in you being like seven years in. Here I go. I know exactly what this looks like. Like, I want you to have great success in the beginning too, because I know that motivates you to keep going. But when I think about what all of my growth by referrals, business owner clients, like, what they all have in mind, what they all have in common is a couple of things. Number one is they, they really do great work. Like nobody refers crappy work or a choppy client experience. I was talking with one of my new VIP clients who just came into the program and she was like, so I read your book and I read that section about the choppy client experience and the crappy kind of experience that you may be giving to people. And she was like. And I was nodding my head and like, didn't want to that, oh my gosh, that's me. So it's not that you're not capable of great work, but you've got to have the processes and the systems behind to do great work. We call that a sticky client experience because to be referable, right? I mean that's such a key point of generating referrals, of getting referrals, right, is like you've got to be referable. And it's funny because I talk about it like it's an understatement, like it's understood. And I sometimes have to remind myself, oh wait, let me just back up and give the disclaimer. One of the first big things I want you to considering is are you referable? And if you've received referrals in the past, that is a great indicator that you can receive more in the future. And then the second thing I would tell people is you need to know who are your referral sources. If we are looking at our sales strategy as a three legged stool and we've pulled referrals out of prospecting and marketing and we create a third leg to our school, the referral plan and the end user of that referral plan are our existing referral sources. Or well, we better know who they are and not anecdotal evidence, not what you think you can remember from the last six months. But I want you to dig in and figure out where your clients have come from over the last three to four years. If you've been in business that long, if you've been in business less, go with what you have, but go in there and figure out, okay, who's been referring me over the last couple of years. That gives you a base to start with. Then the next big thing, of course, right? So one, be referable to know exactly who your referral sources are. And three, then you need to create that referral plan where you're going to take care of them. You're going to be memorable and meaningful. You're going to do the right number of touch points or outreaches, you're going to use the right language and you're going to create this to be a system so that just like you open up your inbox every morning and check email, right, when it comes time to do a touch point or outreach on your referral plan, that's happening as well, Right? It's just like, hey, if you are paying your taxes every year, right. And you are reconciling your books every month for your business, you should also be executing on your referral plan. So it's be referable, be worthy of those referrals. Right? Make sure you know who are your referral sources are and if you need more. Right. Because there's definitely a process to turn people into referral sources and then have a plan in place to actually take care of those referral sources. And that would be the three big, like overarching facets of a high level. When you're thinking about, hey, I want to be. I want to generate more referrals for my business. That's like the overarching, like three big places. I tell folks that, well, this is where we need to start from.

[Raul Hernandez]

That makes a lot of sense. And I was actually writing notes like a logical strain, like, maybe this is how the strategy should be. And you outlined it even better. But that's again, step zero being be referable. And of course this podcast called do good work, not do average or mediocre work. It's like it's do good work, legit work that actually receives and creates an impact. So I don't doubt it in my mind, if you're listening to this is making sure that we need to make sure. How can we make our experience better for our customers or clients? How can you make sure that we it have delight touch points and making sure that we exceed expectations and plan for that. Because that's going to again, kind of go into the like the memorable and what is it? The double M. Memorable and memorable and meaningful.

[Stacy Brown Randall]

We call it minding our M&Ms.

[Raul Hernandez]

I like it. That's really smart because it's. It's not just one. It's. It's all about relationship. So you've worked with a lot of people in regards to the referrals why that happened. What's some of the psychology that matters when we're actually standing out and being meaningful in other someone else's lifestyle? We're top of mind.

[Stacy Brown Randall]

Yeah. You know what's really interesting, as I always tell folks, is that your job and your expectation is to impact how your referral source feels about you, which really means that, I mean, ultimately, fundamentally, that's what we're after. We're after how they feel about you. And so your responsibility isn't necessarily to wonder if they're going to give you referrals. And obviously we're going to track the referrals that we do receive, and there's metrics involved and there are, you know, obviously points that we want to hit in this process. But your ultimate underlying, like objective and responsibility here is that for your referral sources to know that you care about them and for them to know that you care about them because you care about them and because you're also thankful for the referrals that they bring to your business and that you don't take that lightly and that that is important to you and you recognize they could refer to someone else. I mean, think about it. In some of some of our industries, we are a dime a dozen. I mean, if you're a financial advisor, there are probably hundreds, depending on the size of your town, to thousands of you. Same with real estate agents, same with attorneys, same with CPAs. Like, oh my gosh, there's not one. Right. And so if you think about who they could be referring to, they're choosing to refer to you. And that is really precious and it's really important. And so it's paying attention to understanding that they're putting their reputation on the line every time they refer to you. And so. And they refer to you not because they love you and like you, that's important. They also do trust the fact that you will solve the problem of the person they're sending to you. And so that's important too, but it really is maintaining that relationship with your referral source and taking care of them. Now, are there other facets that I think are important so that we can also generate referrals from that? Absolutely. But there is a foundational piece there where our goal is to honor and respect and protect the relationship that we have with our referral source. And I feel like the asking or the paying for or the promotional and gimmicky strategies are actually exploiting that relationship and they're taking it for granted. And I think that when somebody puts their reputation on the line and sends you a client that. That needs to be guarded. Right. And that needs to be protected because it's something they could easily give to somebody else and not to you. And so I think that's just a mentality shift that I find with people when they come into my program. I'm always like, okay, first. In some cases, they're like, this is awesome. I've asked, and it's terrible. I never want to do it. I want to do it your way, Stacy. And they just sail through the program. But other people come in and we have to dismantle this. Decades of thought processes they've had around how they're supposed to treat their referral sources. And I always just say, I was like, it's like a member of the family you actually like. I'm sure we have members of the families we don't really like, but the members of the family that you really like, like, you want to protect it. So that's how I want you to view your referral sources. And for some people, that is a massive mindset shift like that. Ultimately, how they're built and how they're wired, it's just not how they've been taught or trained. And so we got to unpack some of the damage done so they can really look at their referral sources in the right way.

[Raul Hernandez]

Yeah, it's really trusting the process because that's like, I still have a one, like, big arching question around. This is because you mentioned that if you do the gimmicky stuff, you're pretty much telling that person or your referral source, like, hey, I think about you in this format, and that is a negative reflection of your brand, which I think is really bad. But it's also, if you give kickbacks, like, oh, that referral is only worth $200 to you. Maybe I won't refer someone in the future. But then I'm curious, when it comes to, like, giving back to that referral source, there's more than one way than to say thank you. There's the thank you cards. There's getting them on a podcast. There's making them feel like a hero as opposed to just giving them a monetary gift. And which is what you're kind of suggesting here, saying, don't pay for this. Create a real relationship, because the real relationships in your life, you're not paying for. Is that correct?

[Stacy Brown Randall]

Absolutely. I mean, I think about those moments when you are faced with a decision of how to take care of your referral sources. It's usually not the way we think, right? Usually people are like, how much money am I supposed to spend? I'm like, ah, this isn't like the, I got to give them referrals, right? When they give me referrals, I got to give them referrals. Or when I get a referral, I gotta, I gotta respond in kind with some type of gift that seems to capture the value that I feel about that referral that they just gave to me. It's not about that. Ultimately, at the end of the day, the referral isn't about you to begin with. We think they are because we get a new client and that's awesome. But that's actually not what the referral is about. The referral is about your referral source getting to feel like a hero because they're helping someone. Somebody said, hey, I need help with referrals. Oh my gosh, you got to talk to Stacy. She'll make all your problems go away, right? I mean, I hope that's what my referral sources say. The idea here is, it's that idea that as a referral source, whereas my referral sources are my heroes in reality, when they're thinking about what they're doing, it's being a hero to the prospect, to the person who has a problem and they want to help them. And how they're going to help them is by connecting them to you and you're going to solve their problem. So it's making sure we come at it from that perspective and that we don't downplay that importance. Right. And that we also don't try to like, be gimmicky in terms of, like, trying to be, to put a price tag on that either. And like you said, there are lots of ways to thank and show gratitude and importance to our referral sources. It's not always monetary. Like, I have people who always ask me, they're like, I mean, I don't have a big budget. I can't be buying people fifty, a hundred dollar gifts every time they give me a referral. Like, I can't spend thousands and thousands of dollars, right? Like every time, like to take care of my referral sources. And I'm like, sometimes we overlook the fact that the simple thank you or the time spent, right? And then helping them something they need is actually one of the most powerful things we can do for our referral source. And that is overlooked a lot. I mean, we talk about, with my clients, I talk a lot about the different vehicles or the different, you know, delivery mechanisms of how you can take care of your referral sources. And there isn't one way. It isn't just monetary, right? There are other ways that you can do it. And the other thing to do is always make sure what you're doing has that surprise and delight factor, right? Because at that point, that's where it feels real versus the, hey, if you refer me, I'm going to send you a Starbucks gift card, right? I mean, like, that is. That's like that compensation peak, right? And it's interesting, you brought up the whole idea of, like, you know, the whole concept of paying somebody for a referral. Like, oh, that referral is only worth $200. I think that's the example you used. Oh, I gave you that referral is only worth $200. I like to go a step further and really dig in the psychology of that and say, what if that client found out that they got referred to you because you paid somebody $200 to refer them, so at that moment they thought they were being referred to you because you were the best person to solve their problem, when in fact, you were actually that person was just making money off of their pain, right? By referring them to you because you paid the commission. So, like, I like to even dig in deeper to all these facets to be like, okay, what happens psychologically when we ask our referral sources what happened psychologically when our clients found out that, hey, maybe I was only referred to you because you pay the biggest commission, but you're not the right person to solve my problem? Like, all those things, right? They damage that relationship with our referral source the same way as, like, feeling like you got to buy them a gift every time they refer you, that's going to cheapen their relationship with your referral source really fast, too. There's a nuance to it. There is a cadence to how we take care of our referral sources. And sometimes it doesn't mean you need to spend a dime, and other times it means that maybe you just want to show up and surprise and delight in a different way. But there is a framework to how I teach it, and there's a cadence to how it works. And I think that's when people understand, oh, I'm not just sending a thank you card every time you refer me. I mean, you should. But you should also have a plan in place to take care of these people all throughout the year, but you're not doing something daily, weekly, or monthly. I tell most folks I was like, a referral plan will typically have between four and eight touch points In a year, most in their first couple of years are going to fall between 6 and 8. But some of us who've been doing this for a long time, we can get away with four because of what we're doing and how long we've been nurturing these relationships. And here's the thing, and if I haven't said this enough, let me just say it very, very clearly again. At the end of the day, no matter what we do, no matter what we say, if it doesn't come from a place of genuine care, it doesn't matter. Yes, I have a referral plan, and I do about four or five touch points every year to my referral sources. But even if I didn't do them, those. Doing those allows me to always make sure that I stay top of mind with them and I'm memorable and meaningful. But even if I didn't do them, my referral sources know that they matter so much to me and that we have a real relationship that has developed over time. And so do I think that you can just have great relationships and get referrals? No, not necessarily. I think there's a strategy behind it. But once you do that strategy for so many years, like, I've been doing this eight years now, when you do that strategy for so many years, it's a snowball effect.

[Raul Hernandez]

Yeah.

[Stacy Brown Randall]

And at the end of the. Yeah. And at the end of the day, my referral sources know, no matter what, they are invaluable to me and that I care about them. And they can ask me for anything. And the answer is usually yes. Even if I don't want to do it, the answer is usually yes. Because if they need me, I want to be there. And that's a. There's a relationship there that builds that trust.

[Raul Hernandez]

That's really interesting because, like, going back to, like, my marketing background in psychology, it's like everyone's status, especially in the B2B space, wants to be elevated. They want to feel better about themselves. And like you just mentioned as well, like, the way some of the things that I, like, train or teach clients is that every single team member or every single person wants to know that their work matters, that their voice is heard and they have a place to grow. But in this case, they matter. Their voice is heard and the work that they're doing makes a difference. And that's really important to keep in mind is that, again, we're in the business of people and that we should never really forget that. So if I'm looking at the referral plan, If I'm trying to craft one myself, it's, I have to make sure that I am, am referable. Just making sure that, hey, I got my eyes dotted, my T's crossed, show that I care, but really true, genuine care. And that's for my own way to figure out with my referral sources, manage my M&Ms, which I thought was a pretty cool and clever way of saying that. And then having touch points. And I'm really glad that you kind of identified it doesn't have to be a touch point every single month or every other week and kind of being overbearing. It just has to be, you know, consistent enough because this is a, again, you're talking eight years now doing this, but this is a, A anyone listening to this, this is a 15 year plan. Just think about it that way. For the next 15 years you're trying to grow this to be to the level where you're creating that compounding effect and then always figuring out what language I could use to delight and surprise my referral partners.

[Stacy Brown Randall]

Yeah. And I think when you're thinking about it from that perspective, it's like my referral plan is the cadence and the rhythm of how I'm going to stay top of mind, which is how often I'm going to do it, how what I'm going to do, which is to be memorable and meaningful, like we said, managing or minding your M and M. And then of course on the other side of that is making sure you're using the right language. And it's language that has to, it's got to work. Right. It's not this forceful, uncomfortable language and stuff that allows us to plant referral seeds. And it really is at the ultimate, at the end of the day, it comes down to a process. It is just a process you run within your business once you've defined it and once you've looked at it. And lots of people come to me and they're like, okay, what should my touch points be? Like, what should I be doing? And I always say, and I love that you already hit on it, I always say that's a great question. It's just not the right first question. The right first question is actually who are you going to be doing this plan for? So who are your referral sources? And like you said, like once you kind of know who your referral sources are, you can kind of figure it out probably how best you want to take care of them. Of course, in my book I give a number of examples that people can just kind of use as a baseline. And of course we go in deeper to it in my program in terms of what exactly this looks like, what have other students done that have had success and what language do I spend specifically recommend from a scripts perspective. But ultimately, if you're a business owner and you actually are not dead inside and you have a heart and you care about people, this is not a complicated thing to figure out. There's a framework I want you to follow to do it well and to do it right. But ultimately, even if it's not as pretty as the way I would put it together for you, it is your ability to take care of your referral sources. And that should be your ultimate goal.

[Raul Hernandez]

And I'm definitely going to link out to that book because as everyone knows that leaders are readers. So as you're reading your five books a month, add this one to the mix. It's going to make a difference. But Stacy, I really loved our conversation today. I know that you have your book, your program, your community for our listeners out there, what's the best place for people to go out to you to thank you for this episode but also learn more about what you're up to?

[Stacy Brown Randall]

Yeah. So my home base is my website, Stacey Brown randall.com and of course Stacy is spelled with an e if they want to learn more about the program. It's called Growth by Referral. So of course the webpage is the same name as the name of the program, Growth by Referrals. But really you're linking to the book. I think that is the best place to start is just soak in what I teach in generating business referrals without asking because that'll tell you, okay, is this the model I want to follow in my business? And if it's yes, then great. And if it's not, that's okay too.

[Raul Hernandez]

That's awesome. We'll put those links in the show notes. Stacy, thank you again.

[Stacy Brown Randall]

Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it.

[Raul Hernandez]

Thanks for joining me for my podcast Takeover on the Roadmap to Referrals Podcast. I hope that you visit my podcast Do Good Work. You can connect with me on LinkedIn and all the links will be found below on the show Notes. Now back to Stacy.

[Stacy Brown Randall]

I hope you enjoyed this episode and.

Please don't forget to show our host some love. Make sure you are checking out Raul's podcast Do Good Work and of course check out his company and connect with him on social media. The links to do all of that so you can learn more about roll can be found on the show Notes page for this episode. Staceybrownrandall.com 373 well, we have reached the end of our podcast Takeover. This has been a really fun series for me to do. I wasn't sure, like, how it was all going to work out and if the people I asked would say yes and participate. Because it wasn't just as simple as, you know, giving us their raw files or their the podcast files they did for their show. It wasn't just that they then, as you know, had to record an intro and an outro so they could actually welcome you guys to this episode. And if you're brand new to this podcast, you could actually understand why somebody else was hosting the show. So I really enjoyed it. I hope you enjoyed it as well. I do want to quickly say thank you to all of our guests. It would not have been possible if these guest hosts did not take the time to allow us to share the interview they did with me on their podcast. So to Jay Berkowitz, to Larry Kendall, to Michelle Williams, to Jenny Buckle, to Marlon Griffith, to Luanna Agara, to Jay Tinkler, and of course, to today's host, Raul Hernandez. Thank you, my friends. I appreciate you. They were very awesome and very generous allowing me to share their interview they did with me here on this podcast. So there were more interviews that I wanted to include, but unfortunately we ran out of daylight, as they say. Well, in our case, we ran out of summer, since it was the summer series for the podcast Takeover. I don't know about you, but actually some of my kids had back to school next week. I mean, I have two boys heading into their senior year of high school. Two of them. And then, of course, our daughter is heading into her sophomore year of high school. Can you please send prayers? I'm pretty sure we're gonna need it as we get through this last year for the boys of high school. But if you did love the podcast Takeover, if you loved this format, if you found it informative and interesting to hear how other people interview me and ask me questions and how I answer those questions, then definitely let me know. Just shoot me a direct message on LinkedIn or Instagram and let me know that you like the podcast Takeover, because I'm actually considering bringing it back for next year for next summer. And so I want to know, of course, if you enjoyed it. All right. Even though the podcast Takeover may be ending, the podcast is not. We are back with another great episode next week created with you and your needs in mind. Until then, you know what to do, my friend. Take control of your referrals and build a referable business. Bye for now.