B (3:33)

Thank you Stacy, and thank you for having us. My name is Mindy Flanagan, Founder of Inspiring hr. We were founded so I could have my cake and eat it too when my daughter was three back in 2007 and we haven't looked back since. We solve employee pain for small businesses, generally those with about five to 50 employees who are sort of winging it with HR. They've got an office admin catchall or a business owner trying to figure it out on the fly as a crisis arises and we provide them a dedicated HR consultant that partners with them to build out their people management systems and processes and then we sit around and troubleshoot when an unexpected employee crisis pops up. But the more proactive you are with your people management infrastructure reactive things you will be called on to take care of.

A (4:26)

I can imagine the stories you could tell.

B (4:30)

Oh yes, we have an entire teams channel dedicated to teaching opportunities that we can laugh about it, but honestly, it keeps us all entertained for sure, but more informed about what clients are facing and how we can work together to solve their pain points. No one tells you you have to have a crash course in HR before the county issues you a business license. And we chuckle sometimes at these business owners that they've had enough of hr, so they turn to their controller or the office admin catch all and they say you figure it out. And these people have not been trained a day in their life on any of this stuff so we try and make that all less painful for them.

A (5:08)

That's so true. My husband owned a restaurant for 15 years, and at its height, it had upwards of 80 employees. And the stories he could tell, I was like, you just keep an HR consultant busy all day long, every day. Like, it's just. Yes.

B (5:24)

A long time ago. I don't even think Richard knows this story. Before I even founded inspiring HR and I worked in the peo industry, I remember there was a day I was an HR consultant and got called by a restaurant owner who owned a buffet who wanted to know how he should discipline two employees who got in a food fight in front of customers and one of them resulted in a work comp claim because I guess some sort of barbecue sauce got hurled at one of them and then they slipped and hit their head and that was whole mess.

A (5:52)

Oh, my gosh.

B (5:53)

Yeah, that's.

A (5:54)

That's one of those things that's only funny years and years and years and years.

B (5:58)

Exactly. Yeah. It wasn't funny then.

A (6:00)

Not funny then, but. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. This is going to sound really weird. I don't know why I'm telling you. And then, of course, sharing it with all of my listeners. I have never been in a food fight, and it's kind of on my bucket list of things I want to experience.

B (6:14)

So I really dating myself here. But have you seen the Cheers episode from years ago where they all get in the food fight during Thanksgiving?

A (6:22)

Probably. I feel like it's one of the.

B (6:24)

Funniest parts of sitcom television ever worth a watch.

A (6:28)

I'm going to go check it out. If I can find it, I'll put it in the show notes.

B (6:33)

This will enhance your desire to do your bucket list thing.

A (6:35)

I can't wait. I'll put it in the show notes. For anybody else listening to this, it's like, what if I find the episode she's talking about? I'll put the link in the show notes page.

B (6:43)

Okay, Richard, maybe we'll do that our next retreat as a team.

C (6:46)

That would be fun. Yeah, sure.

A (6:48)

Okay, then you need to include me. Just let me be a temporary inspiring HR employee for the food fight. That would be amazing.

B (6:55)

Charlotte's on our list to visit. It's not off the table. I'll let you know.

A (6:58)

It's not far. That's right. Okay, so we'll get back on to the task at hand. Why don't you, Richard, kind of tell us a little bit about, like, obviously, we know who Mindy is now. Tell us who you are and then why referrals are so important to inspiring hr.

C (7:14)

Sure. Stacy. Thank you for having us. I'm Richard Carlton. I'm business development specialist with the organization at this time. I'm an HR consultant as well. I've been working with Mindy for a little over about eight years now. So it's been a great relationship. And as she said, we really do work with clients on their pain points. What referrals mean to us, very simply, like in any business, we work with or do business with people we trust. And building trust comes from building relationships and relationships that we have with clients, whether they're friends or family, or they're just our center circle of influence or friends that we work with of businesses, vendors, they can be influences in finding referrals. So to us, the referral is really more building the business not only to grow, but sustainability through connections and building that with through the referrals, it becomes a much easier to build that relationship instead of someone you don't know. So it makes it a little easier. And then obviously, that new client has an automatic build of trust. So that's what a referral is to us and why it's important.

A (8:35)

Perfect. I love that. Okay, so, Mindy, I know before you started working with me, you were actually referred to me by another client of mine, Emily Sumner. And so look at that.

B (8:46)

Your system works. It works.

A (8:48)

It works crazy. But. So when you and Emily were having a conversation and you were making the decision to work with me and to send Richard to our referral accelerator that we had earlier in 2025, if you had to sum it up or you had to boil it down to one, what was your one main pain point you guys were experiencing at that time with referrals?

B (9:09)

I hate marketing. No offense to our current marketing team. I am the type of business owner that fears falling behind, and it's reflective on how we care for our employees and how we care for our clients and how we build referral partner relationships. And I'm also very candid. So when you bother to set aside precious time during your day to network with people, likely over lunch. My best networking meetings are like the one with Emily where we're just like, yeah, no time to waste here. Let's put our cards on the table. We're both professional services. How did you grow? How are you growing? So it was an organic conversation about what's worked, and you easily came top of mind to her. Because I was at that intersection of when am I going to finally admit that all of this SEO keywords, lead gen, big website, really isn't going to generate type of leads that quite frankly, to expand on what Richard Said, I hate to be the CEO that wants close deals, but that's kind of the CEO's job in a way. And referrals, referrals from people who already know us, like us, and trust us, close faster than the organic leads because it's likely that they don't feel like they need to deep dive vet us as much because the person they already trusted told them they could trust us. It's. So it's, it's just, it's a higher quality lead, it closes faster, and it puts those of us who manage qualified leads through the sales process in a much more informed position to understand why they were interested in the first place. Because those referral partners who sort of swim in your same sandbox, ish, they know how to articulate what the need is sometimes better than the people that just blindly visit our website and fill our Contact Us form. So it's for all those reasons that I was fairly sold early on on dialing more into referral relationships.

A (11:08)

I love it. I mean, I think most people think like that, but I do think you have to get to a certain point to where you're like, okay, now it's time to do something about it. Right. And so, of course, that's when I love to appear on the scene, is when people are like, ready to do something about it. I'm like, yes, let's. Let's get to work.

B (11:26)

Well, and it's interesting, when I listened to your book, I likened it sometimes to the accusations that some people make at Mel Robbins from time to time. You know the. Do you know Mel Robbins?

A (11:36)

I'm sure you know her. Yeah.

B (11:37)

She's like, it's. You're getting paid to tell people obvious, simple things. Well, obviously not. I mean, it might come across as obvious and simple, but there's been some kind of blockade for you to actually do it. And so that's. That's really what listening to your podcast and reading your book did for us.

A (11:57)

Yes. Sometimes I feel like I spend my days doing two main things, reminding people how to be a good human. Like, that there's humans on the other end of all the things we're doing. Right.

B (12:07)

Thank you. We appreciate that. HR perspective. And.

A (12:10)

And the other thing is, is like, stating the obvious so that you can see it, so that you can be like, oh, it's not as crazy hard as I thought it was going to be.

C (12:18)

Exactly.

A (12:19)

Right. It's just like it's. This isn't. I mean, yes, there's a strategy and a formula and science and all the things to it, but, like, it's not complicated. You just got to do it. You got to take the next step. So. Okay.

B (12:29)

I think people can do hard things if it's simplified. That's why one of our core value values is simplify.

A (12:35)

Yes. I could not agree with you more. Okay, so, Richard, I know that you came on behalf of Mindy, of course, and to attend the referral accelerator that we had in February. So I feel like this is a little bit of a loaded question because you know the accelerator format, you come, you spend two days with me, you kind of drink from a fire hose, let's be honest. You kind of get like everything right away, but you can also start seeing how all the dots connect within, how the system feeds itself pretty quickly. Doing it in that format. It's not a format for everybody, but if it works for you, it works great. What were some of the AHAs? I know you probably had a bunch, but, like, if you just had like one or two AHA's that you had from sitting in that room for those two days with the other business owners around the table during the accelerator, what would your AHA's have been?

C (13:22)

Well, that's. That's a great question. Simply and put to that, what Mindy said just a moment ago was kind of a segue right into this and that putting a simple approach to doing something that you've put a wall so long or haven't really looked at it through different eyes to see how you could actually accumulate data and information to know where you are in referrals. So often we receive referrals from those and we say thank you, and then that's about it. We don't say anything more about it. We don't collect any data or information. So the first aha moment was some of the work that we did in that pre assessment type of actually going through and recording and data. And I think I sent you the note saying I learned a lot about us and myself, about what we. What we were missing. We had individuals who had referred to, who I'd forgotten had even referred any business to us. So that became an aha moment of that we needed to collect that data to see where we were. And then it will make it easier in this systematic approach to keep that data going so you know later whether you're being successful or not. So that was one of the aha moments, I think. I think the other was that in our business, we have been using a CRM, but not fully utilizing it in ways that we felt like it could be to their best advantage. And after your program, and we did, it took us a while. I mean, it wasn't something overnight pushing around a little bit. With Mindy and others on our team, we have created where we know who our referral sources are, and now we'll be able to track more easily who is providing referrals and how often they're doing it. And then as you have put in the program, the touch points that are necessary to keep referrals coming. So that. That was the aha moments to us. And using scrm, as you said, there are many, but that was. Those are the two that stand right out to me right off that we had talked about and discussed at length. Sure was.

B (15:42)

And to expand on that, I've loved it because as much as I love being cio, CEO, visionary and seeing where we can go over the next five to 10 years, I'm also a systems and process person myself. And so you give me a typical cadence to follow that can be translated into even a workflow with a series of task reminders. And it's just an easier way to keep everybody accountable with keeping that pace of cultivating referral relationships moving forward. It's been great.

A (16:13)

Yeah. I think that it's one thing to like, okay, this is what we need to do. You really have to bridge that gap too. And here's how. The system that we're going to be able to build it into is going to remind us that we have things to do that we agreed to do these things. I mean, I think it takes both to really make it work.

C (16:30)

I think it adds to what you were saying, Stacy, and that it's a simple system. Okay. Then when you have the necessary tools who can help you, it just means that it's even more that simple.

B (16:44)

You know, I will add to that too, because I. Before this, Stacy, I had done my own kind of watch webinars, read books, go through Sandler sales classes and Sandler Sales management classes for a period of time. And I've learned a lot from all of that. And then I taught, you know, I'm around other CEOs and we're talking to clients all day long about we have such a problem with salespeople. Salespeople. Such a problem. Such a problem. Such a problem. And. And I realized just for me, could be the case with everybody else because, you know, I'm a part of the sales team too, as sort of the chief brand ambassador. It's easy for me to put off working through something unless it's an actionable task that's sitting in my inbox or on my task list in the CRM because I have such a hunger to clear the finish line on those stuff that makes me do. Instead of saying, I'll figure that out tomorrow, I'll figure that out tomorrow, I'll figure that out tomorrow. Like, knowing you have to do something versus a task that you have to check the box on. It really helped me, even with my own motivation in moving things forward.

A (17:49)

Yeah. So I sometimes my husband's learned this. My three teenagers haven't yet. And I think that's actually a blessing. But sometimes he'll, like, he'll ask me to do something, and I'm like, if you don't email it to me and I can't convert it to a task on my task list, I'm going to forget. It's never going to happen. It's just. It's like it doesn't exist. I don't know what you just said. I maybe wasn't even listening. Who knows? Like. But it's like, my kids will come back like, mom, I asked you to do that two weeks ago. And I'm thinking to myself, well, it didn't make it to my task list, so I don't know what to tell you because that's what I operate from.

B (18:22)

No, it's true. I have the same conversations with my husband sometimes. My task list, though, just so I can feel really good about myself at the end of the day, even though it's digital, I also write it down on a sheet of paper so I can have the sheer pleasure of putting a line through it. And then. Yes, right. And then you end the day feeling really good about yourself.

A (18:42)

I love checking it off digitally and then checking it off the written one, too.

B (18:47)

I'll take any check the box stuff. You'll handle the checks.

A (18:50)

Let me get all the checks. I'm a check collector. Like, how could I do the check boxes? Yeah.

B (18:54)

I still delusionally think there's some kind of laundry finish line to cross when there absolutely is not.

A (18:58)

We know there's not, but it feels like it feels like it.

B (19:01)

Yeah.

A (19:01)

One of my favorite things to do is, like, right before we go on vacation, I'll, like, show my inbox, either on my phone or my computer to my husband. And it'll be empty. And he'd be like, yes, I know that. Really? I'm like, it's possible. You can get to a zero inbox. You can do it all the time.

C (19:16)

Yeah.

A (19:16)

So, yeah. Okay. So, okay, so one of the things I know people listening are really going to want to hear us talk about are, okay, you came to the accelerator, you have about six months post the accelerator. Well, at the time of this recording, right? Not necessarily. Maybe when we actually launch this or have this episode go live. But, you know, from the time of our recording to you being at the accelerator, we're looking at about six months. So let's talk about the results that you've seen or some of the successes that, that you've had in those last six months. And that could be like, things that you've implemented and put into place. Obviously, that could be feedback that you're receiving, any kind of data that you want to share. Mindy, why don't you kind of go first and just kind of give us an idea of, like, what's changed, what's happened in those last six months?

B (20:00)

Well, I've talked already about the confidence and comfort in these series of tasks. Actually, a byproduct of what you did, to Richard's point, made us just more informed with how to utilize the CRM, what to manage, how to categorize contacts that are in the CRM. And we ended up with a T chart, honestly, of this is a series of things we do with people that actively refer versus this is the series of things that we do with people that we believe have the potential to refer. So we created this T chart, which I loved, and I love infrastructure as a form of accountability and people actually understanding how to be participatory in great outcomes. But I'll also go with the recency effect for everybody that's an active referral partner and probably potential referral partners. We're like days away. I'm kind of bearing the lead here with me so enthusiastically sharing our new client journey map so that those who refer to us, and I know you've seen the visual of it, and we incorporated some of your feedback, it was super helpful. But everybody's visual in some way, shape or form. And for the referral partners who are most active with us, particularly benefits brokers, when they see that map and how easy it is to become a client and then how easy it is to be a client in a single page. Visual. Visual form, I just think that that opens up their mind to even more referrals because it takes away other obstacles. Because, you know, it's often with a benefits broker who's at a company, everybody tries to do HR last. And some of the benefit brokers are getting hip to the fact that they aren't equipped to answer all these HR questions. So they'll often refer to us. And when questions come up, you know, what do I do about XYZ Benefits Challenge? And it actually has to do with policy or practice. The benefit broker will often say, well, what does your handbook say? Oh, right, you don't have one and you need one and I can't write it for you. I think you should call inspiring hr. And they're like, yeah, but they're going to make it complicated or expensive. Like, the journey map actually does away with some of the assumptions that we're going to oversell or overspend their money or make things more complicated than they think they are.

A (22:11)

Right. I mean, so what Mindy's talking about is the expectation map. And it is one of the things I teach in Inside the Referable Client Experience strategy about making it visual to your clients, potential clients, clients. But to Mindy's point, you can talk about this and show this to your referral sources of, like, what it looks like to work with you. So this episode, of course, will be out before the my next book, my second book is released called the Referral Client Experience. But we will have examples of that expectation map in the book and where you can go to find more examples of the expectation map too. So just a little aside for those of you listening, we'll put the link to the book website in the show notes page so you can know where to go to start finding more information as soon as the book is launched in October. But yeah, the. I think the expectation map is one of those things. It's like, it's simple enough, but you don't think about doing it until someone says, you probably should visually show people what it's like to work with you. And then you're like, oh my gosh, how did I not see that before? And then it's not just the clients and the prospects, it's also the referral sources. And sometimes it's your own internal team just like, oh, for sure.

B (23:19)

We had a series of 12 emails going back and forth from the three people that sell on our team to come up with something that the three of us loved. And then we handed it over to marketing to do the branding and the final touches on it. But it was a really interesting collaborative exercise to reflect on. This is how we sell, but this is also how we service. And for us, what's always important to us is there is actual continuity from sales to service, because nothing's more dissatisfied with, with satisfying with for any company or client. I think to be Sold something that looks really good. And then the reality of service is not that. And that's. That's at the heart of client retention problems.

A (23:56)

So, yeah, it's at the heart of getting referrals, too. From that perspective. It's. Yeah, it's.

B (24:02)

Do you do what you say you do?

A (24:04)

Yes, exactly.

C (24:05)

And, you know, I'd like just to add into what Mindy's been talking about. I think one of the things we've noticed, too, is that we've had some relationships with, as she mentioned, benefits brokers or ones who we work frequently with, and they were already in their circle, as you may say, of making referrals. This particular. Using this program has allowed us to be able to influence them more. Okay. As to what the value of referrals and by touch points, as we call them, that they're being used. And it also. I found out, because my line of what I'm doing more is that special five. I'm trying to build on. On new business. So it's opened the opportunity for others to be referred to me as referral sources. Not just meeting someone as a referral source and a touch point point. But now, now I have another group of referral sources. So it's opened that door. When we did the kickoff and we sent a letter.

A (25:13)

Yeah.

C (25:14)

You know, when I. When I found one of the. Someone that had referred business to us several years ago. But I don't really. I may have said an email, thank you. But then to write a nice card, that individual came back to me and said, you know, I haven't spoken to you in a while, but I really appreciate that card and what you said and how much that meant just by you acknowledging that you remembered me. And because they. They're more of a circle of influence type of a friend. I mean, we don't. They're not a ven. They're not a client of ours.

A (25:53)

Right.

C (25:53)

So it really meant something to them. And it meant a lot to me when they came back and said that, because then it meant that what I was doing or what we were doing was working. Okay.

A (26:05)

Yeah. You know, I think that's one of the things that people forget is that, you know, when you're cultivating referrals and you're looking for sustainability and consistency with those referrals, you have to be willing to play the long game. Right. You have to be willing to, like, nurture those relationships, reconnect with the ones that maybe you didn't do all the things you should have done when they referred you in the past and then take a different approach to cultivating new people to start referring you as well. It truly is an ecosystem. Right. It's not just here's the strategy, here's what you do, here's what you say, and that's it. Right. It's just, you get a nail and here's a hammer, and that's all you need. It really is understanding that referrals exist in an ecosystem within your business. And there's lots of places where you can put things in place that will allow you to get more referrals.

B (26:51)

Right.

A (26:52)

It's not just this one thing. It's a multitude of things, as you guys have been saying.

C (26:56)

Sure.

A (26:57)

Which is awesome. Okay, so now that you have like referral processes and strategies that are deployed or they're in motion and they're happening, what are you. And Mindy, we'll start with you. What are you most hopeful about when it comes to the future, when you think about referrals in your business now that you have these things in place?

B (27:18)

I mean, top line, more deals on the deal board to close. Because once we get. We get qualified lead on the deal board. Referral partners, leads from referral partners, what the close rate ON that is 70%. So for me, you know, we want more referrals. So that plays into my own annual planning. Right. So we have revenue goals that we want to hit every year. And what's interesting with. With referrals is. Well, we haven't yet figured out how to analyze, but I'd like to is not just new client revenue, but additional revenue from existing clients. And I say that because when the referral relationship is strong, that means the person who referred us, their business coach, their benefits broker, their payroll company, we now probably have mutual clients. Right. So part of the fun in the relationship management for me is keeping these strong ties going with the people that referred to, not just because I appreciate the relationships, but because we are all working together for an excellent support relationship with this client that we all have this opportunity to share.

A (28:32)

Right.

C (28:32)

I think it goes on to say too, that the quality of business that we get is going to be better. Okay. Before we would get a referral, and it's kind of what we talked about in the accelerator class is that that's not really a referral girl. I mean, that's, you know, and we were starving, so we would grab the first thing that comes along and hope that it would nurture it into something that would be meaningful and then it not be. So we've learned, I think, that's not a referral. We're. That's not the kind of business we want to do with.

B (29:07)

Happy connecting.

C (29:09)

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, it really. I think that one of the benefits is definitely the quality of business that we get. Yeah.

A (29:18)

All right, so let's wrap up. I've got one final question for you that I want to ask. And this is, of course, of all the things we've talked about, this is the one that I always love to ask. Of course. And when I ask this question, everybody will know why it's my favorite. But, Richard, we'll start with you. So what would you say to someone about the work that we did together? If you were referring them to work.

C (29:41)

With me, mean the ones I've already referred to you. Okay.

A (29:46)

Either what you told them or what you'll tell all the people in the future. But what would you tell them?

C (29:50)

Yeah, because I already referred a few people to you already, whether they've reached out or not. But I know they've made some attempts. But I would say simply that your approach was straightforward, easy to understand, and when applied, is certainly going to add efficiency and effectiveness and what we're doing. So it was just. Just doing the exercises that we went through. Not only are you easy to talk with and to relate with, but it just made it simpler to. To be able to apply that. And you didn't make it difficult for somebody to understand. And it was things that we often. We already know, but we've never applied them in words other. In the right way. So you opened the door to that. So thank you.

A (30:41)

Thank you. Thank you. Mindy, you want to finish us up?

B (30:44)

What. What helped for me, honestly, was I refer to people just like how I was referred to you. You and I started a nice email conversation, but I didn't really know we were going to jump on that referrals accelerator workshop until, you know, I. I listened to your book because I'm an audio. I'm an audio kind of person or a video kind of person, but a few podcasts, and then I listen to your book, and I'm like, I like her approach to simplify. It's on brand with who we are. She's energizing. I knew Richard would benefit from attending, but, you know, I dabbled a little, too, just to make sure this is. This is. Was something we felt like we could get value out of, because, you know, you write a big check like that and you want an roi. But I also knew for anybody who's listening, that part of the ROI as much as I want the closed deals, we're still early on in adopting this and we are and always have played the long game. But in short, Stacy, I was just hungry for something other than do we have to keep talking about SEOs and keywords all the time when they really just are not generating the type of leads we really want? The boots on the ground with, the networking at the chamber events or networking groups or anything we go to, it's all fun. But we didn't have a system to follow to make that worth our time, and now we do.

C (32:01)

That's true.

A (32:02)

That's most important. It's not just knowing what to do. It's having a system so that you actually do it, so that you can actually then reap the benefits and get those rewards as well.

C (32:10)

Absolutely.

A (32:13)

Well, Mindy and Richard, thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts on your business, on referrals, and of course on being a client of mine within the referral accelerator program. I really appreciate you guys giving your time today.

B (32:27)

Thank you so much for having us. It has been such a pleasure just to get to know you. You are a bright light in a very underserved market.

A (32:35)

I just want to personally thank one more time, Mindy and Richard for spending time doing this podcast interview with me. I always appreciate being able to hear clients talk about what they learned, what they've implemented and what they're starting to see their results be and like the feedback they're getting and then just knowing that they like have a plan in place and building it out. So it was fun to do this interview a few months after Richard had attended the accelerator and I'm glad they took the time to be on the podcast and I can't wait to see as they get everything implemented and the success they start to have. If you want to connect with inspiring hr, maybe you've been listening to Mindy and Richard talk and you're like, I maybe need to talk to them in my for my business, doing some HR in my business. You can certainly find the links to connect with them, of course, and learn all about them on the Show Notes page with this episode along with the transcript of this episode, which can be found@staceybrownrandall.com 379. That's for episode 379 and you know it. Stacy has an E. All right, thanks for making it to the end of the episode. If you are listening to this on your favorite podcast listening app, please make sure you are following the show so you get a new episode every single Tuesday. And if you're watching this on YouTube, please make sure you hit that bell and subscribe to my channel so you don't miss a release every week of this episode, too.

B (33:56)

All right.

A (33:57)

Until next week, my friend. You know what to do. Take control of your referrals and build a referable business. Bye for now.