Rewilding the Eastern Cape: Protecting Rhinos, Elephants, and the Future

Summary

Podcast Summary: Robin's Nest

Episode: Rewilding the Eastern Cape: Protecting Rhinos, Elephants, and the Future

Host: Dr. Robin Ganzert
Guest: Dr. Andrew Muir, CEO, Wilderness Foundation Africa
Date: September 8, 2025

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Overview of Main Theme

In this episode, Dr. Robin Ganzert sits down, quite literally amid the wild, with Dr. Andrew Muir in South Africa’s Eastern Cape. Their conversation centers on the rewilding and conservation efforts of this extraordinarily biodiverse region—home to three of the world’s 36 biodiversity hotspots—and delves into the urgent need for collaborative, science-driven approaches to saving iconic species like rhinos, while connecting conservation success to local community wellbeing and global strategies.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting—A Biodiversity Superhotspot

• Location: Podcast recorded at Tanglewood on the Bushman's River, at the heart of one of the world's 36 most important conservation hotspots (03:10-03:25).
• Eastern Cape Uniqueness:
  • Eastern Cape holds three global biodiversity hotspots and seven of South Africa’s eight biomes converge here, creating unmatched biodiversity (02:04-02:45).

2. Rewilding Vision and Rhino Conservation

• Dreams Realized: Dr. Muir shares that his vision—observing black and white rhinos reintroduced to this land—is months from becoming reality, representing decades of effort (04:23-06:09).
• Significance of Rhinos:
  • “80% of all rhino left in the world are found in southern Africa,” making the region a global epicenter for rhino protection (05:15-05:19).
  • Tanglewood will soon be home to three species: two black and one white rhino.
• Legacy & Mentorship:
  • Dr. Muir describes understudying Dr. Ian Player, pioneer in rhino conservation and responsible for many modern wildlife translocation techniques (06:09-07:32).

3. Collaborative Conservation & Corridor Creation

• Partnerships Matter:
  • Cutting fences to create the Tanglewood Biodiversity Corridor marks a new era of strategic, cooperative conservation linking previously isolated habitats (08:27-09:05).
  • “The future of conservation in the world is dependent on a collaboration. We can’t do it on our own.” – Dr. Muir (08:27-08:46)
• Model for the World:
  • Success here could serve as a template globally: “If we can get these models right here, we can replicate them anywhere in the world.” (09:01-09:04)

4. Science, Community, and Socioeconomic Impact

• Science-Led Conservation:
  • Dr. Muir emphasizes integrating rigorous science with conservation decisions, not just for ecosystem health but also to inform effective public policy (10:29-10:36).
• Community Involvement:
  • “We have to do conservation with people... the socioeconomic side is equally important.” (10:36-10:45)
  • The ultimate goal: conservation that benefits and involves local communities, ensuring they become wildlife custodians (10:45-11:37).

5. Biodiversity Crisis vs. Climate Change

• The Real Crisis:
  • Dr. Muir asserts that biodiversity loss, not climate change alone, is humanity’s greatest existential challenge: “Biodiversity is life. It’s our life support system. If we lose 20% of our biodiversity, we lose 20% of our life support system.” (12:04-12:49)
  • Climate change complicates, but does not overshadow, the primary threat of biodiversity collapse.
• Corridor Conservation:
  • Creating continuous wildlife corridors by removing fences allows species to migrate in response to environmental changes and is essential for survival (13:35-14:06).

6. World Heritage Sites as Conservation Engines

• Global Recognition & Local Benefit:
  • Dr. Muir has driven the creation of several World Heritage sites (e.g., Okavango Delta, Bavians Kloof) and explains that such status not only preserves biodiversity but also fuels sustainable local economies through eco-tourism (15:21-17:09).
  • “If we can get communities proud in their heritage ... you drive the biodiversity economy.” (15:42-16:17)

7. Personal Inspirations and the Future

• Passion for Wildlife:
  • Alongside rhinos, Dr. Muir describes his love for birds—especially the iconic African fish eagle—for its call “of the wild” (19:03-19:29).
• Mega Living Landscapes:
  • He outlines ambitious plans for “mega living landscapes,” vast, contiguous habitats allowing free migration, representing an ‘African solution’ for mixing biodiversity with sustainable community presence (19:49-20:40).
• Balancing Traditions:
  • A nuanced take on conservation’s roots and its relationship with hunting, referencing historic conservationists with hunting backgrounds and noting the importance of sustainable use (20:40-21:39).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dr. Andrew Muir, on Collaboration:
  “The future of conservation in the world is dependent on a collaboration. Yes, it’s dependent on partnerships. We can’t do it on our own.” (08:28)

• On Rhino Conservation:
  “80% of all rhino left in the world are found in southern Africa.” (05:15 – Dr. Ganzert confirms)

• On Community Integration:
  “We have to do conservation with people... unless you educate, unless you bring all parties to the table ... conservation can only flourish.” (10:36-11:37 – Dr. Muir)

• On Biodiversity vs. Climate Change:
  “Biodiversity is life. It's our life support system. If we lose 20% of our biodiversity, we lose 20% of our life support system.” (12:32-12:49 – Dr. Muir)

• On the Power of Removing Fences:
  “Having three or four hundred isolated conservation areas doesn’t solve the problem…you’ve got to allow species to migrate naturally.” (13:35-14:06)

• World Heritage Sites:
  “If we can get communities and people carbonized and proud in their heritage…you drive the biodiversity economy.” (15:42–16:17 – Dr. Muir)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Introduction & Setting: 00:01–03:10
• Rhinos & Rewilding Vision: 04:23–06:09
• Mentorship by Ian Player: 06:09–07:32
• Fence Cutting & Corridor Creation: 08:27–09:05
• Science, Policy, & Community: 10:29–11:37
• Biodiversity Crisis Discussion: 12:04–12:49
• Corridor Importance: 13:35–14:06
• World Heritage Sites: 15:21–17:09
• Future Directions—Mega Living Landscapes: 19:49–20:40
• Conservation and Hunting: 20:40–21:39

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Conclusion

This episode gives listeners an immersive view into the frontlines of biodiversity conservation, connecting the dots between iconic species, vibrant communities, economic sustainability, and the global imperative to act. Dr. Muir’s passion—anchored in world-leading mentorship, deep scientific expertise, and a blend of reverence for nature and practical engagement with people—offers hope and a blueprint for rewilding efforts everywhere.

For listeners seeking inspiration, knowledge, or action, this episode proves: saving the wild depends on science, partnership, and empowering people on the ground.

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Robin's Nest. Many of us feel a deep bond with animals, from the pets we cherish at home to the endangered species in nature. Join us for lively, informative conversations where together, we will build a more humane world. It's an honor to introduce today's guest, Dr. Andrew Muir, one of South Africa's most influential conservationists and social entrepreneurs. As the CEO of the Wilderness Foundation Africa, Dr. Muir has raised over $52 million for conservation and social causes, led impactful partnerships to protect South Africa's biodiversity, and lobbied for the declaration of two World Heritage sites. With a career spanning decades, his dedication to integrating conservation with community development has made him a key global leader in the field. Dr. Muir's work continues to inspire and transform the future of wildlife preservation and and social responsibility. I'm here today with Dr. Andrew Muir. Andrew, I have to say you are an icon in the conservation space. You're a remarkable leader in wildlife preservation, and your legacy of work inspires so many. In fact, so many people want to be you with all of your incredible impact, not only here in Africa, but indeed, you've inspired conservationists around the world. Thank you so much for being in Robin's Nest today.

[B]

Well, thank you. And thank you for having me. And I don't think we could have had a better place to do this, so thank you.

[A]

That's exactly right. Tell us, where are we today with this beautiful backdrop for Robin's Nest?

[B]

We are on a property called Tanglewood. We are in the middle of what's called the Albany hotspot, which is one of the world's. The 36 most important conservation areas.

[A]

So we are in a hotspot for biodiversity.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And you're Saying it's the 36th.

[B]

It's one of 36 around the world.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. And it happens to be in your backyard. You live near here, am I correct?

[B]

Yes, I live about an hour away. Eastern Cape, the province that we are in in South Africa, is one of the most biodiverse provinces in the world. I think it's estimated that Eastern Cape is the third most biodiverse region. And the reason for that is we have three global biodiversity hot spots in the Eastern Cape. So three of those 36 biodiversity hot spots are found here in this province.

[A]

Unbelievable.

[B]

And we have seven of the eight biomes that you find in South Africa. They converge here. So they join here, and that's why you have this extraordinary biodiversity.

[A]

Well, I love this because, number one, you see the biodiversity here. You see it happening right before your very eyes. This Incredible ecosystem. Series of ecosystems that have been rehabilitated. I know that's your vision as part of conservation, your efforts in conservation. Where are we today in this beautiful area? Tell us the name of the spot we're on right now.

[B]

So this spot is Tanglewood, and this is part of the Bushman's river, which in fact, this is the river behind us. When you and I last met here a few years ago, this was dry.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We've had some good rains the last few years. And we are in a center of not just biodiversity, but restoration. So we're in the United Nations Decade of Restoration. We are globally talking about trying to conserve 30% of what we have left. And so this all becomes so much more important because this really is one of the world's centers of biodiversity. We need to get it right here. And this is why today, and what we are doing and what we're trying to conserve here by building out these corridors of ecological biodiversity. And as you well know, one of the best ways to do it is to use rivers and you restore your rivers, you restore your lifeblood.

[A]

Yes. And this is the Bushman's river behind us.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And when we met just a year or two ago, we sat on this same terrace that we're on. You said you had a dream, and your dream was to come out here, have a cup of coffee and see black and white rhino, rehabilitated, rewilded, here on this gorgeous land. And that's been your vision?

[B]

That's right. And I think if you and I join here again in a few months time, we will see white rhino behind me. We're about half a year off from having them here. And if you come again in a year's time, I think you will see white and black rhino. Why that's important because rhino is a charismatic species. Globally, 80% of all rhino that are left in the world are found in southern Africa. 80% of all rhino left in the world.

[A]

80% of all rhino left in the world are found in southern Africa, southern.

[B]

Africa, and the majority of those in South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And where we are here, Eastern Cape, has become one of the global epicenters for rhino. It's one of the few places where we can have three species of rhino, two of black rhino and one of white here. And so rhino becomes the catalyst, we believe, to make that restoration and ecological change which you see now happening in this landscape.

[A]

I do. It's so exciting. First of all, I want to congratulate you because it was just a year and a Half ago that we had that conversation. And you're a half a year off of making your dream a reality. And this has not only been a dream that you've had for a year or two, this has been a lifelong dream for you. Am I right?

[B]

Yes. Please share. Well, I was lucky enough to understudy Dr. Yun A. Player.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Who was the world's leader in rhino conservation. He saved the white rhino in the 70s from extinction. And why he became so globally renowned. Not only is he the golfer Gary Player's older brother.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But also he came up with the technique to capture large mammals and move them safely. And that doesn't just apply to rhino, it applies to your bison. In fact, most conservation that's happening globally now, where animals are moved to rewild areas is because of the techniques they're using, the same techniques that Ian and his team developed in the 60s and the 70s. Nothing's changed. And that was a game changer for conservation globally. That's why we can talk today about rewilding. I was lucky enough to understudy him and I took over all these organizations that he founded. Wilderness Leadership School, Wilderness foundation. And that's been my life's work. And with such a mentor, we've got to talk rhino.

[A]

That's exactly right. You can't leave a conversation without mentioning the word rhino, that's for sure. Well, you know, your vision has so inspired me, and as the head of Global Humane Society, we were thrilled to begin a very special partnership. I think it's part of my legacy of work as well, is to be able to partner with you, making this Bushman's River Quarter so special and so unique and helping to, as you say, get it right here. To fulfill the UN's goal of, you know, being a contributor to the 30% of the Earth that we must save and bring back and rewild. I think it's so wonderful. So at Global Humane Society today, we've been part of a very special day. It meant a lot to be able to cut down the fences of our very first property that is a contributing property to the Tanglewood Biodiversity Corridor. What does this mean to you?

[B]

Means a lot on numerous levels. First of all, the future of conservation in the world is dependent on a collaboration. Yes, it's dependent on partnerships. We can't do it on our own. We need to find ways to work together and work to each other's strengths. And I think Global Humane and Wellness Foundation, Africa Conservation Landscape Initiative and others are really leading that charge. Hopefully for many others to Follow. If we can get these models right.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Here. We can replicate them anywhere in the world.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so I can't tell you how important it is that we are working to our strengths. We're collaborating, we're working together, we're bringing people into this landscape. You are creating opportunities through your incredible network of both media and the social network. And what global humane. I mean, I thought wellness of Foundation Africa, 52 years. We've done well. Well, you have 150 years.

[A]

Yes. We're a little older than you. I think we're looking pretty good for our ages, by the way. 150 years old. Pretty good.

[B]

But, but it means that, that, that, that wisdom and that knowledge that our organizations have to contribute towards conservation. We know we can't do this work in isolation. We know that island conservation does not work. We know that we have to work collaboratively and we have to work in trust. And that's why today is so important.

[A]

It is a very incredible example, an inspired example of true, meaningful collaboration. And what I think is very important for everyone in Robin's Nest to know is the appreciation for science driving these humane solutions. It is science. And your background is remarkable and you really do appreciate and bring so much science to the conservation work you're doing in Africa. And doesn't that drive better and meaningful public policy solutions?

[B]

Well, it does. And you know, informed decisions are important.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Decisions based on science.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What's critical about conservation in Africa, and this part of Africa too, is that we have to do conservation with people.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We need to make sure that the socio economic side is equally important to the core conservation side. And so some of our work using science is to join the two, to make sure there are benefits, like we demonstrated today to local communities, to make sure that communities are part of the solution, to make sure that communities living with wildlife, living in and around wildlife are part of the custodianship. And you can't do that unless you educate, unless you bring all parties to the table. So it comes back to using good science to inform decision making, to using science and culture to encourage community participation and ultimately ownership. And I think if we get that right, conservation can only flourish.

[A]

Yes. Well, you say that so eloquently and it is a true, it's a true equation. The culture, the local community, their involvement, plus the science regarding the conservation to save the animals, you, you bring it all together in a magic mix, then it can actually drive a huge solution. Absolutely. To the biodiversity crisis that we face. When I think about the biodiversity crisis I think it is absolutely the most pressing issue that humanity faces today. What, do you feel the same?

[B]

Well, you know, we are certainly in the midst of what they're calling six mass extinction events, so that's mainly around invertebrates. But you would. With the world's biodiversity, Africa becomes critical to solving that, as does the Americas as a whole. Have to get it right. And so, yes, we. It is. Biodiversity is life. It's our life support system. If we lose 20% of our biodiversity, we lose 20% of our life support system. We can't do the one without the other. And so we have to get it. We have to get it right. It is the biggest crisis facing us. Climate just makes it more complicated. But biodiversity is the real issue.

[A]

That's very important for people to hear. Climate's not necessarily the real issue. It makes it more complicated.

[B]

It makes it more complicated because, look, you must understand that a changing climate is normal, it's natural. It's just the degrees of the change which we can argue about. But whatever that is, the impact's on your biodiversity. And if it's impacting your biodiversity, it's impacting our life support system. And if it's impacting our life support system, it's impacting our livelihood.

[A]

That's wonderful the way you say that as well. It's very, very important to bring that up because there's a lot of debates, particularly in the States, about climate and climate issues. And so if we look at it, the real issue, friends, is the biodiversity crisis. And we must make sure we stay laser focused on that. Correct, because that will provide the meaningful solutions that our planet so needs.

[B]

And if we get these corridors right, it helps climate, it helps all species to naturally migrate and move to either a warmer or a cooler temperature. So corridor conservation is critical. Having three or four hundred isolated conservation areas doesn't solve the problem because you've got to allow species to migrate naturally.

[A]

And so what this does is allow that by taking down the fences.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Which is what we celebrated today, friends, as we introduced the Brad and Alice Andrews Preserve, the very first preservation for the Global Humane Society. We're very honored to have been with Brad and Alessandros today cutting the fences, literally. And you and I cut them together.

[B]

We did. And what I love about it is it is that individual, like Brad and Alice, that strives for that higher ideal of conservation. And if we join those individuals together, we get meaningful change.

[A]

That's exactly right. And I know you and I both hope that this story will inspire the next set of Andrews to come forward and help us here in this beautiful Bushman's River. We can do so much. And I know just in a few months we're going to have coffee here together. I like mine with a little bit of cream. And we're going to sit here and look at the Black and White Rhino and then say, there's so much more we can do. I am always so impressed when I hear about your work and your stories. You're a legend here in Africa for sure. And you have done so much with World Heritage sites and all. Can you please share with our friends in Robin's Nest today a little bit about your passion for these World Heritage sites you've created.

[B]

So World Heritage is important because it's the ultimate goal to get global recognition for four areas. And World Heritage also has a whole eco economic engine behind it because they are tourists that visit these natural.

[A]

I'm one of them.

[B]

World Heritage is around the world. And I think we have about a thousand World Heritage Sites around the world. And we as Wellness foundation recognize that if we can get communities and people carbonized and proud in their heritage, and there's no better way than to have World Heritage status, what you then do is you drive the biodiversity economy. So as much as the biodiversity is the economy behind us, which is ecotourism, which is nature based activities.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Which is activities that don't take away from the environment but add to it in a sustainable way, you're then driving, you're keeping people in that environment and you're ensuring that that heritage continues. Because at the end of the day, livelihood is as important as protecting areas like this. That economic side is critical.

[A]

A lot of people don't realize that. They just think it's, let's get a space, let's put a couple of rhinos on it. And that solves the problem. But it's more important as you are stating that the economic solutions are provided.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

So the communities have provided the incentives they need to help keep the animals to allow alive and to flourish or to become custodians. Custodians. Beautiful. Beautiful. And so the World Heritage Sites that you've been part of, please share those.

[B]

Well, Okavanga Delta, we were the NGO that put together the case.

[A]

And that's beautiful, by the way, for those who have not seen it, it's incredible.

[B]

The seventh wonder of the world.

[A]

And it is.

[B]

And it's number, in fact, it was number 1,000 and we achieved that about five years ago. Izim Mangalisal, which was known as St Lucia, It's a critical wetland, wetland of global importance. We helped to get that proclaimed the Bavians Kloof, which is a well known World Heritage site in the Eastern Cape where we are now incredible mountainous area and really home of what we call the Cape Leopard. We managed to get that proclaimed as a World Heritage site as part of the Cape floral kingdom about 15 years ago. So we had actively driven and led the creation of three World Heritage sites and then another two we've got on the list to be proclaimed one in the ocean, the Algoa Bay and the other the succulent Karoo. The succulents of the world are so critical to protect now they become a critical part of that part of us.

[A]

I think coral is as well. So we always talk about coral, very important. So that's really exciting because that gives some of our listeners and Robin's Nest ideas in terms of what to champion, what to really engage with. It's very important. You know, I hear your passion in your voice and I certainly know the outcomes of your work which is so significant and inspirational. I have to ask you, of course you had Ian Player serve as a mentor. How lucky, how fortunate rhinos are, you know, a source of your love and passion. Was there another animal in your life that touched your heart, that really made you want to do this work to such a level?

[B]

Well, I also like my birds. Yes, the fellow kind. Yes, well, yes. And the, the fish eagle. Oh, the fish eagle is such iconic bird of Africa and when you hear that call, you hear the call of the wild and so that's also been an inspiration.

[A]

That's beautiful. The fish eagle. I think we're all going to try to search that tonight and to make sure that we hear that beautiful call. That's wonderful Andrew. As you look at the next couple of years for your work and where it's going to take you, of course this corridor is so important. What's next on your list as well?

[B]

I think what excites me is that in southern Africa we developing this concept that we're calling mega living landscapes. And this is really an African solution to finding a way to keep people on the land but at the same time to expand and create these areas of biodiversity and link. Yes, extensive use. So to go from intensive management which has been hunting areas to extensive where you take the fences down and you allow the animals to naturally migrate across massive landscapes. So this mega living landscape concept which we would like to see roll out all over Africa and we're piloting it right here in the Eastern Cape.

[A]

That's beautiful. You know, I flew in to this area and half the plane were those conservationists that are with us to celebrate. The other half were the hunters. Thought it was such an interesting dichotomy of humanity.

[B]

But we must remember that some of the great conservationists were hunters. And often, often, if you look at President Teddy Roosevelt. Roosevelt, the legacy that him. My name sake. Jean Muir.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And many others.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What they have done for conservation. And so it's about the type of use and the sustainability of it, and it's just ensuring that the impact that we have now does not take away from the. From the beauty and the splendor that we want to leave to our grandchildren.

[A]

Yes. And I definitely want to leave this to my grandchildren, and I'm sure you do as well. What a pleasure to be with you today. Thank you so very much.

[B]

Thank you very much.

[A]

And thank you for this incredible work and this gorgeous landscape. We look forward to being your partner for years to come.

[B]

Well, thank you. And thank you for trusting us and the process and working together. We look forward to building that from strength to strength.

[A]

Thank you so much. Thank you for tuning in to Robin's Nest. We want to hear what you think. Please make sure to review the podcast on your podcast platform. Watch for upcoming episodes that will include new and exciting discussions. If you love animals, you'll love this season of Robin's Nest.