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Ghislaine Maxwell Spills Secrets About 5 Billionaires In First Ever Prison Interview

Rotten Mango

Wed Dec 10 2025

Almost everyone in Los Angeles hopes that one day they’ll receive an invitation on their doorstep inviting them to one of Al Sekel’s parties. In order to attend, he always provides a vague caveat like, ‘bring the most interesting person you know.’ Fulfill it and the host himself will likely usher you inside his mansion, give you the tour, and show you a giant painting that seems to be…moving? Later on, someone at the party might clue you in, ‘He’s the world’s greatest collector of optical illusions. He likes them because they violate expectations.’ Al Sekel is known as a harmless, artsy oddball who just happens to be Ghislaine Maxwell’s brother in law, until the most recent release of Epstein’s emails. An email from Sekel to Epstein in 2010 reads in short, ‘Now the headlines do not mention convicted sex offender or pedophile…Your wiki entry now is pretty tame and bad stuff has been muted…We hacked the site to replace the mug shot and caption.’ According to the email, Sek...

Summary

Rotten Mango Podcast Summary

Episode: Ghislaine Maxwell Spills Secrets About 5 Billionaires In First Ever Prison Interview

Host: Stephanie Soo
Date: December 10, 2025

Main Theme & Purpose

In this episode, Stephanie Soo dives into the newly released "Epstein files," focusing on Ghislaine Maxwell's first-ever prison interview and the explosive details she reveals about her connections with powerful figures, including five billionaires. The episode analyzes the political drama surrounding the Epstein Transparency Act, the tangled personal networks of Epstein and Maxwell, and growing theories that both were part of a broader intelligence and blackmail operation. Stephanie scrutinizes the reliability of Ghislaine’s claims and the convenient timing and tone of her disclosures.

Key Topics & Insights

1. The Eccentric World of Al Seckel and Epstein’s Internet Clean-Up

[01:07–08:31]

Stephanie opens with the story of Al Seckel, a rare book dealer, TED speaker, and Ghislaine’s brother-in-law.
Al was deeply involved in online reputation management for Epstein post-conviction, hacking Wikipedia and search results to downplay Epstein’s crimes.
Al sent a 2010 email to Epstein boasting about cyber battles with reporters:

"Wikipedia was an important victory and it will always be at the top of the search engine results. Now the headlines do not mention convicted sex offender or pedophile." – Email from Al Seckel to Epstein, read by Host [07:23]
Al died mysteriously in France in 2015—a fate not unusual among Epstein’s circle, Stephanie notes sardonically.

2. The Political Battle Over the Epstein Transparency Act

[09:55–20:55]

Stephanie recaps the bipartisan effort (led by Ro Khanna & Thomas Massie) to pass the Epstein Transparency Act, which met heavy resistance from Republican leadership, including Trump.
Trump openly attacks Massie on social media, mocking his credibility and life decisions [12:25].

“Thomas Massie, the worst Republican congressman and an almost guaranteed no vote each and every time…” — Trump, quoted by Stephanie [12:55]
After elaborate procedural obstacles, the discharge petition is barely met (218):

“The odds are not in the favor of the Epstein Transparency act, but it does now go to the floor.” – Host [16:06]
The House votes 427–1; the Senate passes it unanimously; Trump signs the act into law.

3. Epstein, Intelligence, and Conspiracy Theories

[20:55–23:30]

Stephanie addresses the theory that Epstein was a Mossad (Israeli intelligence) asset.
Pam Bondi’s claims of viewing “tens of thousands” of tapes of Epstein with minors are mentioned, but doubts linger as victims say they were unaware of being filmed.
The uncertainty further fuels speculation:

“[The] DOJ is not specifying anything more because they're saying it's CSAM…It's just weird. It doesn't help that Ehud Barak and a few other world leaders were pictured previously with Epstein…” – Host [23:08]

4. Accidental Revelations: Epstein’s Kindle Purchases & Bizarre Notes

[23:30–29:08]

Epstein’s eclectic reading habits: from mathematics and Jesus to management, Bitcoin, joke-writing, and eventually, spy novels and “Lolita.”
Notably, his last three months included a book on Israeli assassinations, coinciding with spy rumors.
His cryptic email notes list names (Chomsky, Teal, Ehud Barak, etc.) and obscure word associations—possibly shorthand for blackmail or tracking discussions.

5. The Ghislaine Maxwell Proffer Interview

[29:27–69:53]

Interview Setup & Purpose

For the first time, Ghislaine sits down with the FBI, Attorney General’s office, and her lawyers under a “proffer agreement”—she talks, but receives no legal promises in return.
Stephanie finds it suspicious this occurs amid political scrutiny of Epstein links in the government.

“And like, when the fuck government ever listen to anybody, let alone someone that has been convicted of any sort of crime?” – Host [31:22]

Maxwell’s Defense: Distancing, Deflecting, Downplaying

Ghislaine claims her relationship with Epstein was distant and not romantic:

“…we were never really dating per se. They slept together once and then she didn't sleep with him again for a very long time…” – Stephanie paraphrasing Maxwell [34:13]
Insists Epstein had a “heart condition” limiting intercourse; she, too, allegedly had a medical condition reducing intimacy.

“I actually do have a medical condition myself, which precludes me of having a lot of intercourse…” – Ghislaine, paraphrased by Host [35:13]
Denies participating in recruitment of victims or awareness of any abuse, contradicting victim testimonies and court documents.

Handling of Money & Relationships With Billionaires

Maxwell received $30 million from Epstein, which she claims was unrelated to illegal activity:

“That is categorically false. Correct.” – Maxwell on being paid for recruitment [46:45]
Details connections with major figures:
- RFK Jr: Met at Cuomo/Kennedy wedding, went “dinosaur bone hunting.”
- Bill Gates: Met at TED conference; denies traveling to “the island” with him.
- Elon Musk: Met at a party for Google’s Sergey Brin; “everybody has an island,” Stephanie mocks [51:07].
- Bill Clinton: Claims to have spent time with him providing “ideas"; denies piloting him to Epstein’s island.

Notable Quotes from the Interview

On distancing from recruitment involvement:

“I never saw anything inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy…never ever saw any man do anything inappropriate with a woman of any age.” – Maxwell, summarized [54:44]
On Bill Clinton/Helicopter rumors:

"The notion of me flying an ex-president in a machine, that would terrify me..." – Maxwell (summarized) [56:04]
On memory lapses: Maxwell blames solitary confinement for “not recalling” anything—Stephanie is openly skeptical.

Host’s Critique of the Interview

Stephanie criticizes the interview’s soft and non-confrontational tone, saying it serves only to clear Trump and sidestep accountability.

“The purpose really just seems to be President Trump is a great man and I don't think that he's involved…” – Host [42:25]
Todd Blanche (Deputy AG/ex-Trump attorney) is particularly gentle, often walking back questions when Ghislaine stumbles.
Stephanie’s biting tone:

“She would have an easier time convincing everyone that she stuck a seven foot Christmas tree up her back butt.” – Host [60:18]

6. Explosive Blame-Shifting Toward Virginia Giuffre

[59:49–62:33]

Ghislaine repeatedly blames victim and survivor Virginia Giuffre for the alleged trafficking ring, claiming Virginia “was responsible for [the recruiting] in its entirety” despite being a minor and a victim herself.
DOJ interviewers do not push back; Stephanie is indignant at the lack of challenge.

7. Espionage: Mossad, Military Contracts, and Global Influence

[62:33–68:56]

Epstein’s emails reference complex arms deals, ceasefire negotiations, and relationships with global leaders and industrialists (e.g., Ambani, Ehud Barak).
Stephanie notes:

“The amount of knowledge that he has in military contracts and fighter deals is odd. So people are saying this doesn't sound like someone who's just scheming billionaires.” [64:13]
Direct question to Ghislaine about Mossad contacts yields coy answers:

Blanche: “Have you ever had any contact with any individuals that you understand to be from Mossad...?”
Maxwell: “Well, not deliberately.” [65:50]
Ghislaine stresses family/friend ties to Israel, possibly signaling loyalty to intelligence contacts.

8. Ending Notes: Prison Life, Potential Pardon, and Giuffre’s Memoir

[68:56–71:52]

Ghislaine has been moved to a minimal-security prison; speculation grows about a possible Trump pardon.
Ends with a moving quote from Virginia Giuffre’s memoir:

“Nobody experiences trauma and emerges unscathed...” – Virginia Giuffre, read by Stephanie [70:00]
Stephanie urges listeners to await the next Epstein file release, promising updates and more “rotten” revelations.

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

On Al Seckel's role cleaning up Epstein’s image:
“We have programs that track this stuff… We have to go back and push them back down in the Google searches.” – Al Seckel (email), read by host [06:57]
On bipartisan drama:
“To get this act onto the House floor to be voted on was a pretty dramatic thing…” – Host [13:02]
On Ghislaine’s claimed ignorance:
“If you asked me where he was at any given point, I don’t think I would have had the answer… That’s how detached we were.” – Host summarizing Maxwell [38:00]
On the conspiratorial tone of Maxwell’s defense:
“She’s just as crazy as I freaking imagined.” – Host [32:16]
On intelligence agency connections:
“Certainly my father had a background in intelligence. He was a British intelligence officer.” – Maxwell [68:19]
On the proffer interview:
“The purpose really just seems to be President Trump is a great man and I don’t think that he’s involved…” – Host [42:25]
On Virginia Giuffre’s memoir:
“My hope is that this book can aim some light at the darkness and force it to crawl back into its cave.” – Giuffre, read by Stephanie [70:00]

Memorable/Bizarre Moments

Ghislaine’s detailed social calendar with billionaires, including Sergey Brin’s island birthday trip with Elon Musk [51:01].
Stephanie’s relentless, salty commentary, e.g., disbelief at Ghislaine’s memory lapses and gentle interview.
Regular references to how many prominent figures—politicians, business leaders, warlords—Epstein and Maxwell intersected with, with Stephanie titling this as “not a normal level of social climbing.”
Bizarre excuses by Ghislaine for her lack of criminal involvement and memory: “I have the intelligence of a drowning cockroach,” Stephanie lampoons [34:13].

Structural Timeline of Key Segments

[01:07–08:31]: Al Seckel, early Epstein cleanup, mysterious death.
[09:55–20:55]: Epstein Transparency Act, congressional politicking.
[23:30–29:08]: Kindle purchases, intelligence rumors, cryptic notes.
[29:27–42:25]: Ghislaine’s proffer interview—tone, claims, soft handling.
[46:45–51:07]: Connections to RFK Jr., Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Bill Clinton.
[54:44–62:33]: Interview digressions, implausible memory lapses, scapegoating Virginia Giuffre.
[62:33–68:56]: Intelligence/spy theories, Mossad questions, international scope.
[68:56–71:52]: Current prison life, possible pardon, Giuffre’s memoir.

Overall Tone & Takeaways

Stephanie Soo is deeply skeptical, darkly humorous, and unflinching in her assessment of both the interview and the broader culture of power. She exposes the evasions and contradictions in Ghislaine Maxwell’s statements and points out the absurdity of the “proffer” approach, while taking time to ground the episode in reminders of the very real trauma suffered by Epstein’s victims.

The episode is a must-listen for those seeking to understand not just the raw details of the Epstein/Maxwell case, but also the elite networks, political machinations, and unresolved questions that keep the story relevant—and disturbing—today.

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Transcript

Host (0:00)

This podcast is brought to you by Netflix. Behind every empire, there is a story most people never hear. Sean Combs the Reckoning is the documentary on Diddy's rise, reign and downfall. Told through explosive firsthand accounts from those who knew him best in raw interviews and never before seen footage. It follows his journey from intern to music mogul and the power parties and controversies that came with it. The more famous he got, the more his greed and hunger for power grew. Watch the story of Sean Diddy Combs. Sean Combs the Reckoning now playing only on Netflix. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like showing up for movie night ready for a heart pounding thriller. But getting a three hour documentary on lawn care? That's kind of like insurance. Insurance may all seem the same on the surface, but when it comes to getting the help you need, State Farm is the real deal. You wouldn't settle for a snooze fest when you came for a thrill ride. So don't settle for just any insurance when there's State Farm. Like a good neighbor, State Farm Farm is there.

Host (1:07)

To be the best at something is already quite difficult to be the best at hosting parties in Los Angeles is near impossible. I would not be surprised if the best party event planner in Los Angeles is paid in the seven figure range per year. It's all about the famous caterers, the decorators, a giant ice sculpture shaped like a throbbing Academy Award. Because how else will anybody know that you have one trays of caviar served with McDonald's chicken nuggets? Because pairing and wasting caviar on something that is not expensive is the ultimate signal of wealth in Los Angeles. These are likely some of the prerequisites on throwing the best parties in la. Unless your name is Al. Al does not do any of this, but everybody wants to go to his house parties. There are no trays in the bathroom for people to do lines of snow off of. There's not a single single fish egg in sight. Just strange invitations that show up at your doorstep. The invitations are vague, but they're pretty straightforward in the sense of like it's vague depending on how you're going to execute it. But quote, bring a copy of the book that you have most enjoyed. I would spend days thinking about that. Do they mean smut? Do they mean like fun book? Do they mean educational book? Self help book that transformed my life? Or book that I had the most hehe haha kicking my feet reading? What? What does it mean? Or another bring the most interesting person that you've ever met. How do you even get the most interesting person to come with you? Because you're not the most interesting person. They're probably the most interesting person. When you show up, you likely realize that you have brought the least interesting person with you because there are Nobel prize winning physicists. The guy over there works for NASA. He won't tell you what he does, but he works for NASA. Magicians, celebrities who are not even the star of the party. The host himself, Al, will usher you inside with his arm draped around your shoulder as if you've been best friends for decades. Even though he looks a few decades older than you and almost like it is just planned from the beginning somehow. He's asking you about how the car ride was, was there traffic? How was it coming up the hills? And then suddenly you're standing in front of a painting on a wall and this painting is moving. Is the painting moving? It's likely that later someone at the party will lean over and tell you, oh, you don't know. Al's the world's greatest collector of optical illusions. Apparently he made a lot of money dealing rare books, and now he collects optical illusions like that painting. Al is the type of guy that likes to say things like, reality is that which exists independently of your perception or beliefs. Your perception may be aligned with reality, and then it may not be. And you wouldn't know. I don't know what that means. What does that mean? He's even released multiple books on optical illusions. And a lot of people at the time think that this. He just has this oddball quality about him. He even gave multiple TED talks where he talks about how visual illusions are powerful because they violate your expectations. There's this one part where the crowd is just eating up everything he's saying. And you would think that this is like a Netflix debut comedy special. He shows a picture of what appears to be a man and a woman partaking in activities. And this is shadow play. So it's like the shadow of a woman leaned up against a glass bottle. She's like inside the glass bottle and there's a man behind her, you know, doing what they do. And he would say something like, this is the best example of priming by experience that I know. If you are a child under the age of 10 that hasn't been ruined yet, you will see the image and see dolphins.

Host (4:48)

No, but it's odd that he says a child under 10 that hasn't been ruined yet. It's just a little weird. Okay. And then he goes on to show a picture of a thing that a six year old, Drew turned into her teacher. The assignment being, what do you want to be when you grow up? And because of the way that the story is presented, his voice, his tone, his cadence, clearly it looks like this six year old Drew, someone who might be a midnight ballerina. That's what it appears to be. And the six year old writes on there, when I grow up, I want to be just like Momm. So now the insinuation is mommy is a midnight ballerina because it looks like someone on a pole and there's a bunch of people holding up wads of cash. The crowd is laughing. And then he shows a letter. This is the letter that the mother sent the teacher. Dear Ms. Jones, I wish to clarify that I am not now, nor have I ever been a dancer. I work at Home Depot. And I told my daughter how hectic it has been. Last week before the blizzard hit, I told her we sold out every single shovel we had. And then I found one last one in the back room and that several people were fighting over it and who would get it. Her picture doesn't show me dancing around a pole. It's supposed to depict me selling the last snow shovel we had at Home Depot. From now on, I will remember to check on her homework more. Thank you. So it's a lot of weird stuff, but it's not alarming. It's all like fun and games, right? Until the recent release of The Epstein emails. December 16, 2010. One email from Al Secel to Jeffrey Epstein reads, the job was far worse than originally expected. You have a dedicated group of people trying to undo and damage you. He's talking to Epstein in 2010 after his conviction, his first conviction, including now. They have started up again last week, full force again. It's obvious that they can't fuck with your wiki page because we blocked that. So he's going in and he's making sure no one can write in Jeffrey Epstein's Wikipedia page. The woman from the Daily Beast who wrote an article about you. We have programs that track this stuff. And so for the past few days, Mike has been having a cyber war with her minions who are actively trying to undo what we are doing. She's trying to push her Daily Beast and other articles back up. So we have to go back and push them back down in the Google searches. Then there was the issue of trying to, you know, create a positive web presence for you with the science and organization sites. I spent literally four months of Nonstop work creatively and my own political capital to get you this far, which saved you not only time but countless dollars and isn't something that can be readily bought. I had people also working for free, which we did manage to get rid of the Daily Beast article, which is now far removed in spite of their own efforts to keep it prominent. Wikipedia was an important victory and it will always be at the top of the search engine results. Now the headlines do not mention convicted sex offender or pedophile. Instead, philanthropic work, Epstein foundation, promotion of scientists. We stopped the hacking on your wiki site and that was a major effort. Your wiki entry now is pretty tame and bad stuff has been muted and pushed to the bottom. Careful editing and wording has muted the effect immensely. We also hacked this site to replace the mugshot in the caption. They hacked Wikipedia. These emails are from 2010. What is the connection between Al Secel and Epstein? Is this just another one of Epstein's friends who owes him a favor? Al Secel is actually much closer than that. He's almost family in a way. He is Ghislaine Maxwell's brother in law. And soon after these emails, Al Secel goes missing. At least that's what everybody thought until weeks later, there is a stench that leads investigators to the bottom of a 100 foot cliff in France. And there, missing a hand and a foot that was likely eaten by a wild boar, is Al Secel.

Host (9:55)

We would like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for Rotten Mango to support The Coalition to Abolish Slavery and Trafficking, AKA Caste. This episode's partnerships have also made it possible to support Rotten Mango's growing team. And we'd also like to thank you guys for your continued support as we work on our mission to be worthy advocates. As always, full show notes are available@roottenminglepodcast.com this episode involves mentions of alleged DV self exit CSA trafficking. Please watch with caution. And this is part three of our coverage of the Epstein files. And I think by this point, hopefully the new Epstein files will be released. That's going to take a lot of time to sort through. If you guys are interested, I can definitely make some follow up videos, but I mean, we don't even really know what's going to come out of the Transparency act. Truly. Like there is no guarantee that we're going to get any answers to this or if we're just going to get another dump of emails where it's like, oh yes, we kind of knew that these people had some sort of relationship. But these emails don't kick start an investigation. They don't really bring justice or anything. So it might just be that. But just another side note, I am not legally accusing anyone of doing anything. All of these allegations, all of these accusations and the discourse around each person that's involved or not involved with Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell is readily available to be consumed online. There are countless court documents. There are countless things that have been released by the House Oversight Committee. There are so many things that have been circulating online that you can read for yourself and come to your own opinion. So with that being said, let's get started. The committee is where bills go to die. They are the gatekeepers before a bill even reaches the Congress floor. The Congressional floor, okay? To have a full vote, they have to go through the committee first. And when they do, 90 to 95% of them die. They never make it out of the committee onto the floor. Except this bill, Jeffrey Epstein's Transparency Act. I mean, why would it not get signed by everyone, right? They just have to make it to the Congressional floor. Why would you not want to know more about those that are involved with Eggstein? By the way, that was from a deposition. Okay? So a lot of people have been calling him Eggstein. Recently there was an old deposition of Jeffrey Epstein where he is asked about if his private part is truly shaped like an egg. And he gets so upset he walks out of the deposition. And for that he is now Mr. Eggstein. Now, the Jeffrey Epstein Transparency act was A bipartisan joint effort from Democrat Ro Khanna from California and Republican Thomas Massie from Kentucky. Interestingly enough, when the Republicans find out that Thomas Massie is working on this bill, so he's trying to get it onto the House floor so they can vote. Once they vote, it goes to the. Then once they vote, if it passes, it goes to the President and it is now signed as an act like this is going to happen. When the Republicans find out what Thomas Massie is doing, they are not happy. The leadership is not happy, including Donald Trump. Trump attacks Massie on social media, calling him, quote, a real loser. Thomas Massie, the worst Republican congressman and an almost guaranteed no vote each and every time is an embarrassment with a capital E to Kentucky. He's lazy, slow moving and totally disingenuous. A real loser never has anything positive to add. Looking for someone good to run against this guy, someone I can capital E endorse and vigorously campaign for. I don't know why embarrassment and endorser capitalized E for Epstein, I guess. Right? But like, he really hates Massey now. He made fun of him for getting remarried a year after his wife died last year. In 2024, he and Trump is posting online. Boy, that was quick. No wonder the polls have him at less than 8% chance of winning the election. Anyway, have a great life, Thomas. End question mark. Because he doesn't know the new wife's name, his wife will soon find out that she's stuck with a loser. Thomas Massie comes out swinging, too. I mean, the girls are really fighting in this one. In an interview, he says the deal for Republicans on this vote is that Trump will protect you if you vote the wrong way. In other words, if you vote to cover up for pedophiles, you've got cover in the Republican primary. I will say that the MAGA base was having a hard time with this one. With a good chunk of maga, at least from what we could find online, siding with the Epstein Transparency Act. Most likely this act was going to get stomped on because if party leadership doesn't want to get it passed, it's not going to get past the committee. Which is why Congressmen Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie, they go around it and they do something called a discharge petition. I will say to get this act onto the House floor to be voted on was a pretty dramatic thing that a lot of people don't talk about. So it means that in order for you to bypass the committee, you have to do a discharge petition. For a discharge petition, you have to have Majority of the House representatives, you need 218 out of the 435 to file and sign this discharge petition. But they make it so there's so many legal loopholes, such as the 218 members of the House have to physically go to the clerk's desk at the House chamber to sign the document. They can't do like a docusign.

Host (15:40)

Republican speaker of the House Mike Johnson. Fascinating guy. And by fascinating, I mean what the hell? He states that he opposes the discharge petition because he was worried about the victims. Though most people believe it's more likely that he was just doing what Trump wants. Okay, so there was a lot of drama. In addition to the four Republicans signing this discharge petition, there was a situation where a Democratic House representative had passed away and his daughter actually got elected as the representative. And she's clearly a Democrat, and so she needed to be sworn in so that she could sign. Otherwise they would be down a number from the Democrats. I mean, it's clearly she's gonna sign it, she's a Democrat. But also, like, they were just really trying to not let her get sworn in to the point where at one point, the Republican House Rep. Mike Johnson was like, no, no, no. You know, the government is shut down, so we can't sign her in. Or like, it's the weekend or like, we only meet certain times of month and we can't sign her in. And everyone's like, why can't you sign her in? A lot of people have been sworn in when they haven't had everybody present. And he's like, no, no, no, it's for her. I want her to get the full experience of being sworn in. Like, it's a whole thing. It's a whole ordeal. And everyone's like, swear her in so that she can sign the document. There was a lot of drama, but ultimately, with the four Republicans and every single Democrat, the discharge petition gets 218 signatures. Exactly. Just to give you an idea, the modern discharge rule was established in 1931. And out of like, 673 discharge petitions. Only 47ish have gotten the 218 signatures. And then out of those like only a handful have gotten through. The odds are not in the favor of the Epstein Transparency act, but it does now go to the floor to be voted on and they have to get it through the House, then the Senate, and then finally the President. When the discharge petition gets on the House floor, The House votes 427 to 1. Who is the one lone no vote? Republican Clay Higgins of Louisiana, who argued that the release could cause undue harm to innocent witnesses and family members related to the case. He wrote on x. It abandons 250 years of criminal justice procedure in America. You know, as written, this bill reveals and injures thousands of innocent people, witnesses, people who have provided alibis, family members. If enacted in its current form, this type of broad reveal of criminal investigative files released to a rabid media will absolutely result in innocent people being hurt.

Host (18:40)

Even House Speaker Mike Johnson, he decided to save his own skin. Because at that point, everyone is looking at anyone who's going to vote no and go, hey, so what's on your computer? What? Who are you emailing? People wanted to know. And so I think at that point everyone's saving their skin except for Clay Higgins, who has always been super maga. So then it goes to the Senate and the senators, they unanimously passed the bill. And like, it sounds climactic. It sounds like every single one of them sat there and was like signing the bill. But no, they were just like, hey, can we just anyone have any objections or are we just going to unanimously pass it? They were like, okay, no objections. It is passed and by November 19, 2025, the bill lands on President Trump's desk and he signs it into law. There's a lot of reasons why people think and have these conspiracy theories that Epstein was a spy, an intelligence officer for a foreign nation. The main one that comes up is Israel, that he was an intelligence spy for Israel. Netizens think that this is just too much power. The way that if you read through Epstein's emails, he does not align himself with one political party in United States. When someone he's talking to is Republican, he takes a more Republican viewpoint. When someone he's talking to is a Democrat, he takes a more Democratic viewpoint. And it just seems that all of his connections lined up more so to be in the Democratic Party because he had Ghislaine Maxwell, who knew the Clintons, and then they knew all of these connections. But it does not seem like he himself was like a staunch Democrat. Like, I lean left. These are my political views, which is so interesting. But he's so well connected globally to a bunch of international foreign nations and leaders. And the tapes, the alleged tapes that Epstein has of his client list abusing children, there is this question of do those tapes exist or not? Because Pam Bondi, Attorney General of the United States, has stated that she has seen tens of thousands of tapes. Right? But she does state that it's between Epstein and minors, but they were never found. And some people say it's because they were never Epstein's. They belong to the foreign intelligences and they're not gonna let it be found.

Host (21:16)

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Host (23:30)

Now, what's interesting is that all of the victims, well, most of the victims for Epstein and Ghislaine, they don't recall being filmed when they were partaking in activities with Epstein. Epstein. But a lot of them recall that Epstein and Ghislaine would allegedly talk about how they had some sort of power over these powerful men that these women were trafficked to, that these girls were trafficked to. So it doesn't make sense. That's why people are saying it wouldn't make sense that Epstein has videos of himself committing acts, like tens of thousands of videos of himself partaking in illegal activities with minors. Like, what would be the purpose of that? Unless he gets off on it. But none of the victims have said, oh yeah, he gets off on filming these things with us. So that's why people think that those tapes are not of Jeffrey Epstein. But regardless, it seems like whether they exist or do not exist, the DOJ is not specifying anything more because they're saying it's csam and no one is saying that it should be released or no one is saying that we should get screenshots or anything. It's just. It's just weird. It's weird. It doesn't help that Ehud Barak and a few other world leaders were pictured previously with Epstein or have admitted to having met him. And along with a massive dump of emails Epstein's Kindle Purchases get released his digital Kindle purchases I will say it's very interesting. In the beginning he's reading books like Conversations with a Mathematician, exploring randomness, even the Jesus Dynasty, A Hidden History of Jesus, His Royal Family, and the Birth of Christianity. And then he starts picking up books about family Wealth Management, the story of a practical idealist managing money Books why We Get Sick, the Celebrity Assistant's Handbook, which details how to deal with the ultra wealthy, Bitcoin for Dummies Blockchain technology explained. He also purchases at least four separate books Digital books on Donald Trump, another book about gay Catholic priests, another one titled the Serious Guide to Joke Writing, which is not about gay Catholic priests. However, it does appear that his interests start changing a little bit in 2014 with the books the man from Orgy It's a man who studies intimate relations and he studies it and he loves it and it makes studying intimate relations even easier. However, the blurb continues. He does odd jobs here and there for, quote, the most secret of American spy organizations. This unnamed agency, which is definitely not the CIA, might send him to various action spots in the world, but it's his lust that makes the spots get active. He just starts reading a bunch of spy books along with purchases like the Complete Guide of Men, Pilates, the Physics of Immortality, which is about how humans can be resurrected, which Virginia Dufres states in her memoir. I'll tell you one thing though. While I've read that Epstein was buried in an unmarked grave not far from his parents in Palm Beach, Florida, I don't believe that at all. Epstein had repeatedly told me exactly what would happen when he died. His body would be placed in some sort of cryogenic chamber to be preserved until technology advanced far enough back to bring him back to life. That's what he always bragged to me with that satisfied smirk on his face. I know it sounds far fetched, but I wouldn't bet against the notion that he somehow got his way on this. One of his last book purchases in the last three months of his life is Lolita, the annotated and revised version about a man who is obsessed with the 12 year old girl. However, the most interesting purchase that everybody has been dissecting thus far online is quote the title Rise and Kill first the Secret History of Israel's Targeted Assassinations. People think it's interesting because there is a speculation that he is an intelligence officer, a spy for Israel, and then he ends up dying in prison later. Additionally, in that vein, he would also make these very Strange notes that he would email himself. It's like the journals of a mentally corrupt human. I don't even really know what to call them. So he would just email these random. It'd be like 1, 2, 3, 4. It would be numbered in a bullet point list. And then it would be random words in sequences. It's like he's speaking in code or he's talking to himself. But it would say things like taste, number 26. Taste, question mark. Food, question mark. Kissing, question mark. It's like he's playing the world's weirdest word association game. Other lists include 26 money agreements, debt, power, value, wealth, cost. Number 27, dreaming all day long, number 28, only six senses question mark. And then at the bottom of this, like numbered list, it would just be a whole group of people's names. Hopkins, Danny, Chomsky, Teal Hoffman, Ehud Bannon, Barak, Woody. What? So a lot of netizens, they've been speculating that these names correlate to a certain number. And these numbers are the last conversations that he had with these people, so that next time he converses with them, he can remember what they conversed about or maybe what their interests were in. But it's very weird because if you're just a normal person and you don't expect that these are going to go public, why not write it in a journal where it's a little bit easier to understand? Why go through the. Why couldn't you just write Hopkins and then whatever that was, if that is in case. What is happening here?

Host (34:13)

So her friend is like, because you're an old, old, decrepit little lady now, you gotta think about dating somebody. So her friend introduces her to Epstein, who is dating the friend's sister. Imagine you're like, hey, you need a boyfriend. My sister's boyfriend could be a great pick for you. He's great. I think you guys should get married. And apparently that's what happened. So Ghislaine meets him at his office where she notices a giant ketchup stain on his tie. And she associates smitten by this ketchup stain that she was like, yes, I will commit atrocious felonies with you. Let's do this. Ghislaine also thinks that we have the intelligence of a drowning cockroach because she tells Todd Blanche that she slept with Epstein one time in the beginning of their friendship. You know, they were never really dating per se. They slept together once and then she didn't sleep with him again for a very long time. And I mean, just it was. The relationship was just not that serious, you know, Epstein told me that he had a heart condition. A what? Heart condition. Heart condition. Heart condition. Which meant that he didn't have intercourse a lot, which suited me fine because I actually do have a medical condition myself, which precludes me of having a lot of intercourse. So what was your understanding of his heart condition and why that prevented him from having intercourse regularly? I don't know. I mean, he liked other forms of sexual activities. So she states later that he really likes self pleasuring and blowjobs. I don't know what the difference between intercourse and I don't know what is. She says, so we stopped having relations in 1999. Not full sex. Sorry, just to be clear, you know, didn't mean that we didn't still share a bedroom sometimes or whatever. In fact, she says that they never really did it. And all of these women who are accusing her of bringing them into the room, leading the massage, being involved in these group activities, she's like, oh God, that's really not me. Like I've only ever done it with Epstein like a few times. And on top of that, I. I mean, people think that we are connected by the hit, but that is not at all the case. We barely ever hung out. We actually didn't really like each other like that. She says, in fact, I didn't like the people that he was with anyway. So how do I say this? He was always surrounded by young people, right? I like people who are my age or older. And I don't find the society of the companionship of younger people, I suppose, is really that enjoyable. So I don't like the company that he chose to be with. So I just, I found it boring and fundamentally uninteresting. That's probably the nicest way that I can say it.

Host (44:00)

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Host (56:06)

Yeah. So she's like, I'm traveling with Bill Clinton and like, I offered him ideas or like, I don't know. Or like, ideas or like, I don't know know. It doesn't make any sense. And then she talks about how there is a rumor where she flew Bill Clinton on a helicopter to the island for nefarious reasons. And she says that is so patently absurd that I flew him in a helicopter. I am a helicopter pilot. That is true. But the notion of me flying an ex president in a machine, that would terrify me. I would never, ever even take that responsibility. Can you imagine? Yeah. No. And then she goes on to state that the reason that she can't really remember anything is because she was in solitary confinement at MDC Brooklyn for quite some time. And MDC has one of the most heinous. And she starts talking about the prison system there. And Todd Blanche is like, not on my transcript. We're gonna stop you right here. Moving on. Yeah, he said, not on my watch. So. But she just tried to blame MDC Brooklyn for the reason that she's very messed up. And I don't think so, because, I mean, yes, I think prison reform and I think MDC Brooklyn is probably one of the. The worst of the worst. But also, you were messed up from the get go. So I don't know what she's talking about. Ghislaine also goes on to state that any woman that she saw around Epstein's vicinity was very interested in him. Nobody was there by force or uncomfortable or in distress. She says, I never saw that. She said, you know, if you were massaging his feet, I mean, they were happy to be there. Did you see him engage in sexual conduct during a massage? Well, you could define sexual conduct as in, I did see women who would have been, you know, less than normally clad for massages, but especially on the island where they would be in bikinis or possibly even topless. Yeah, I did see that. But she doesn't have any recollection of anyone underage giving Epstein a massage or doing anything inappropriate during a massage. Did you ever observe Mr. Epstein self pleasuring during a massage? Yes. Okay, so what are you saying? I mean, when I. I'd seen him on a massage table, I had seen him masturbate. I don't know if there was a masseuse present, but I've seen him on a massage table masturbating. Okay.

Host (60:18)

And the way that she's trying to convince us of these things, she would have an easier time convincing everyone that she stuck a seven foot Christmas tree up her back butt. I don't understand. I don't get it. And then she goes on to state that this is all Virginia's doing, that she has nothing to do with this, that she was just working for Epstein, but it was all Virginia. Now, the DOJ does redact Virginia's name, but it's very clear that from context it's Virginia Duffrey. Ghislaine accuses Virginia, December of 2011 or 2001, he met Virginia and I think Virginia was responsible for that in its entirety. When Virginia was a child herself. Like this is what she's saying. Like Virginia was a child herself and she is saying that Virginia is responsible for this. Ghislaine says she was a self confessed having been sexually abused as a young girl and was trained. Her words I'm quoting now, not mine, in all the arts of whatever you know, that is the sex program by a man named, called Ron Eppinger. Virginia Giuffre was trafficked by Ron Eppinger. If you listen to part one and Ghislaine is saying that she, she was trained to do this, that was, she was trafficked. And she continues, who was her pimp from when she was 14, I believe 15, I don't know. And in her book describes him training her to be what every man wants in all its manners, fellatio and everything else. Ghislaine goes on to spew nonsense about how Epstein's interest in underage masseuses started because of Virginia and that Virginia was the one recruiting fellow young girls to come in and service Epstein. She also bad mouths Virginia by saying things like, so then I think she takes up with the local drug dealer Virginia writes about in her book. She was dating a guy named Tony and he becomes. She becomes a druggie. You know, you know how druggies, well, maybe you don't, but they become even more unreliable than normal. So now she's saying she's unreliable because she got into drugs. And so she blames everything on Virginia Dufresne. And how convenient is that? When Virginia Giuffre, just a few months before this proffer interview passes away, she says, quote, I don't know everyone, every single person who came to his house came through Virginia and her boyfriend Tony and then whoever else was underneath her. That is how it started.

Host (62:36)

No, they just kept saying things like, well, let's not get into he said, she said, let's not get into individuals. It's just, it's messed up. But one of the biggest things that came from this proffer interview is that lends itself to the theory that Ghislaine and Epstein were working as foreign national spies, gathering intel and blackmail material. On the most powerful people in the US There is a fascinating email from a redacted person who reaches out to Epstein in 2013 asking what he knows about being an offset service provider. I don't know what that means. That sounds like you work for Verizon or something. Okay. But Epstein responds, yes. One of the most complex negotiations as they are very strange. Someone buys fighter jets, but with the fighter money, some must be used for specific third party items such as I will buy your pussy for $10,000, but with two of the 10 you have to buy me food and to make matters worse, I need to borrow another 10 from you. The person responds. So the offset service provider does what negotiation between the parties. Complex. Sounds interesting. Epstein says Brazil has tried to buy fighters in the past. They don't have a lot of money. The redacted email responds, apparently Brazil is a hot investment place. Now it's more about the offset part than the jet deal. Sweden and the USA are all lobbying to get the jet deal as aviation is tied with potentially big tourism deals. 36 planes. I was just on call with a guy in Sweden who is dealing with this. I never know if the stories are real, but he claims to work with the Brazilian President Obama and Warren Buffett. Buffett, etc. So I mean the. The amount of knowledge that he has in military contracts and fighter deals is odd. So people are saying this doesn't sound like someone who's just scheming billionaires. Like if he is just blackmailing billionaires or being a financial tax advisor, this is weird stuff that he has access and knowledge to. In another email he tells a redacted individual, I passed your message. In addition, I'm not sure what role you and your boss would like to play in the Yemen issue moving forward. The rebel leaders are ready to propose a document. They would like a ceasefire and halt. If you'd like, I could pass on their proposal. This is not what I do. My expertise is only money. But it seems like your part of the world would like advice. Su he's now dealing with a ceasefire in Yemen. In another text message, Epstein is talking to another redacted individual writing, spoke to my China guys and they said China stronger plays, weakened strife, art of war, etc. Said all the players are XI loyalists. Main complaints is that there's no counterparty in us either no one home or new to the game. He texts again, this is just a year before his death. I had three China guys today. I told them that they should brief you. There is a 40 year anniversary in Beijing of the beginning of economic growth initiative. He's also meeting in 2017 with the Mongolian ambassador for the UN and this is in 2017. This is just two years before he dies. He also emails about how he just spoke with one of the Ambani family members, one of the billionaire families from India. He also writes, india, Israel, key, not for email. So this is. A lot of people have interpreted this as telling an Ambani family member that the key for India and US Relations to soften is Israel. Israel is the key.

Host (65:52)

There's also pictures of him with African warlords, which Ghislaine comes up with this, like, very bizarre explanation for that in the proffer interview, where she says, no. So the reason that he hangs out with African warlords in that picture is because he had a business idea where if a billionaire had money stolen from them, like, if a cartel has money stolen from them, he would go find that money, track it down, and he would bring it back, and he would get a percentage of the recovered money. And everyone's like, what does that have to do with African warlords? Mm. But to address the rumors that Epstein and Ghislaine were spies, Todd Blanche asks her, have you ever had any contact with any representatives that you know from Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency? Can you ask me that again? Have you ever had any contact with any individuals that you understand to be from Mossad, an Israeli intelligence agency? Well, not deliberately. Pardon me? Not deliberately. Okay. And did you. We asked this. We talked about this a little bit earlier, but just to put a finer point on it, did you ever know or did. Were you ever told? Did you ever think that Mr. Epstein was getting any money from any intelligence agency, including Mossad? Well, I don't believe so, but I wouldn't. I mean, I would be very surprised if he did. I don't think so. No. Were there any international businessmen or politicians that had a very close relationship with Mr. Epstein that we haven't already talked about? Off the top of my head, I can think of Ehud Barak, the former prime minister of Israel. What was his involvement? She says that they weren't that close. And she says, for good measure, you know, anything that touches Israel or the state of Israel, I'm always interested in, because my father loved Israel, and so I pay attention to it. And we have ties to, you know, Israel. Ties, meaning friends and family relations. Also, this is like, a lot of people have interpreted this as she's trying to tell Israel that, like, she's not turning on them. It's really weird because the way that she just is like, I have family in Israel and I have so many ties to Israel and I'm always interested in Israel because my father loved Israel. It's really bizarre. Do you know the nature of Ehud Barak's relationship with Mr. Epstein? I don't. Were you ever with them together? I think I met. I have a memory of meeting Ehud, but I don't know if he was with Epstein. I don't remember. You know, I'm struggling to remember the context around it, but I'm sure it happened. But it must have been very brief that they met because I don't have any serious memory of it. And then as to make things. I mean, this just makes everything sketchier. But she says, certainly my father had a background in intelligence. He was a British intelligence officer. I think that my sort of belief is that once you've been an intelligence officer, you've kind of. It doesn't mean that you're formally employed. So I don't think my dad is any formal sense, was, you know, employed by the agency. And then she's like, you know, but I think it's absurd that everyone thinks that we are spies. But then later she'll say shit like this. I've had some interesting things that have happened in my life and one of them was I found out the ira, so this is in Ireland, had me on their kidnap and murder list.

Host (69:53)

Yes, exactly. So she's moved after this interview and she's still trying to get out of her entire conviction by saying that she had a non prosecution agreement as by the sweetheart deal that Jeffrey Epstein signed in 2009. So I guess we're gonna have to see But Virginia giuffre on page 139 of her memoir, she writes, I had been trafficked to dozens of men by this point and I remember their faces clearly. There were old men and even older men. Nerdy, shy men and boorish arrogant men. There were men who wanted me to wear outfits and men who wanted to see me naked, and men who didn't notice if I was clothes as long as I touched them. There were men who behaved as if I were lucky to be with them. And there was at least one man who ignored me as I serviced him sexually, preferring instead to focus his eyes upon and even fondle Epstein. Someone just like to yeah, a lot of people want to know who that is. A lot of people want to know who everyone is, Virginia writes in her book. Nobody experiences trauma and emerges unscathed. I certainly haven't. Even before I met Epstein, I'd experienced awful things that I've made. Some observers label me as his perfect victim, but I was also resilient or I wouldn't be here now. I still have night terrors and panic attacks. I still have moments of feeling worthless. Perhaps I always will. But on many days, especially when I've been able to help another survivor, I thrive. My hope is that this book can aim some light at the darkness and force it to crawl back into its cave. My point is that while Jeffrey Epstein is dead and gone, there are many others around the world who are still committing the same kinds of crimes. Crimes that he did. Hopefully the files will put an end to that. And the files should be coming out like after you see this, probably in like a week. But we don't know if we're just gonna get if things are gonna be how they've always been and we're gonna get a whole bunch of nothing, or if we're actually gonna get something this time. So stay tuned. Let me know your thoughts in the comments. Stay safe and I will see you in the next one.