Can The DNC Beat Hogg?

Summary

Ruthless Podcast: "Can The DNC Beat Hogg?" – Detailed Summary

Release Date: May 1, 2025
Host/Authors: Josh Holmes, Comfortably Smug, Michael Duncan, and John Ashbrook

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Introduction

The "Ruthless Podcast," hosted by Josh Holmes alongside Comfortably Smug, Michael Duncan, and John Ashbrook, delves into the pressing political dynamics within the Democratic Party, focusing on internal conflicts and leadership challenges. In this episode titled "Can The DNC Beat Hogg?", the hosts explore the Democratic National Committee's (DNC) efforts to challenge David Hogg, a prominent vice-chair who has been vocal in primarizing incumbent Democrats.

Notable Quote:
Josh Holmes [00:00]: "The fact that we're talking about Hogg is one of my favorites. Just because of his willingness to keep up the good fight."

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David Hogg vs. The DNC

The central discussion revolves around David Hogg's attempts to initiate primary challenges against existing Democratic incumbents. The hosts analyze the DNC's internal strategies to counteract Hogg's moves, highlighting the party's struggle between maintaining power structures and addressing diversity issues.

Notable Quotes:
Michael Duncan [00:09]: "Hold Democrats, hold him accountable, hold elected Democrats accountable. You gotta do it."
Josh Holmes [00:12]: "...party resources that a member of its leadership committee argues should be diverting to defeating their own versus Republicans is not a violation of their charter. It's the diversity issue."

Josh Holmes [02:15]: "David Hogg, the vice chair of the DNC, came out a couple of weeks ago saying he was gonna start primarizing Democrats. Big faux pas in party politics these days."

The episode delves into Kaylin Free's challenge against Hogg, questioning the fairness and adherence to the DNC's charter and bylaws. The hosts argue that the DNC is using diversity as a facade to maintain its power and suppress internal challenges.

Notable Quotes:
John Ashbrook [08:35]: "The DNC's trying to bury the hog because the hog presents danger to the rest of the community."
Comfortably Smug [10:48]: "I love the theatricality of this whole thing. This is like coming for the Democratic Party itself and what it is..."

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Polling Numbers and DNC's Popularity

The hosts present recent polling data indicating a decline in the Democratic Party's favorability compared to the Republicans. They discuss factors contributing to this decline, including internal conflicts and the DNC's focus on divisive issues rather than addressing the economic anxieties of the general populace.

Notable Quotes:
Comfortably Smug [15:14]: "A FOX News poll shows their popularity has hit a new low. 41% of voters view the Democratic Party favorably, while 44% view Republicans positively."
Josh Holmes [15:36]: "Democrats are less popular than Republicans. Can we play clip one, please?"

The discussion emphasizes that Democrats' inability to effectively communicate and address pressing economic concerns has led to diminished support, especially among their own members.

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Economic Policies and Trump's Influence

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to analyzing President Donald Trump's economic policies and their impact on both his approval ratings and the broader economy. The hosts argue that Trump's initiatives, such as ending the Biden pill penalty and promoting innovation through policy reforms, are poised to revitalize the American economy.

Notable Quotes:
Josh Holmes [16:48]: "If you did absolutely nothing with the economy, the American economy would be okay. You'd have very modest growth."
Michael Duncan [25:19]: "The President's approval has taken a hit, and Democrats are not providing an opposition to any of that."

Josh Holmes [24:37]: "President Trump's plan will unleash innovation, lower costs, and save American lives."

The hosts further speculate on the potential outcomes of Trump's continued economic strategies, suggesting that successful implementation of tax reforms and international trade deals could significantly boost the U.S. economy by the third quarter of the year.

Notable Quotes:
Josh Holmes [26:51]: "If he can deliver the kind of economic growth with a different structure that creates more jobs and better-paying jobs for people in flyover country, that's a transformational situation."

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Interview with Ajit Pai: Spectrum Auctions and 5G

In a featured segment, the podcast hosts interview Ajit Pai, former FCC Chairman and current CEO of CTIA. Pai discusses the critical importance of Spectrum auctions in advancing America's wireless infrastructure, particularly focusing on the rollout of 5G technology. He highlights the economic benefits and the strategic necessity of staying ahead in technological innovations compared to global competitors like China.

Notable Quotes:
Ajit Pai [81:34]: "The Spectrum auctions we held at the FCC generated over $100 billion of revenue for the Treasury. It's the most successful government program that actually generated money."
Josh Holmes [82:38]: "Spectrum is increasingly important, and we're talking about 5G and how you access content."

Pai emphasizes the democratizing effect of wireless technology, enabling content creators to reach global audiences and fostering innovation. He underscores the need for continued investment and strategic policy-making to maintain America's leadership in this sector.

Notable Quotes:
Ajit Pai [84:28]: "Wireless and AI are kind of the two pillars of innovation going forward, totally connected. It's going to be tremendous."

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"King of the Hill" Game Segment

The podcast features a recurring game segment titled "King of the Hill," where the hosts engage in playful competitions, often mocking conservative figures who have shifted ideologically. In this episode, they challenge participants like Rick Wilson and Joe Walsh, critiquing their social media antics and political stances.

Notable Quotes:
John Ashbrook [55:19]: "They are trying to just gaslight people into being like, well, listen, just because the tattoos say he's a gang member and there's affidavits saying he's a gang member and a previous judge has confirmed that he's a gang member."

The segment serves as both entertainment and a platform for critiquing perceived inconsistencies and extreme positions within conservative circles.

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up by reiterating the central question of whether the DNC can overcome internal challenges posed by figures like David Hogg. The hosts call on listeners to engage by sharing their opinions on how President Trump can regain higher approval ratings, emphasizing the importance of strategic policy implementation and media engagement.

Notable Quotes:
Josh Holmes [102:00]: "Pick your representative examples and we always do that with some flair. We're going to talk about our last episode and discuss real reckoning for journalists."

The hosts also preview upcoming content, including analysis of Trump's recent interview with ABC News, setting the stage for future discussions on media interactions and political strategies.

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Key Takeaways

1. Internal DNC Conflicts: The DNC faces significant internal challenges as figures like David Hogg push for primary challenges against incumbent Democrats, leading to strategic power struggles within the party.

2. Declining Poll Numbers: Recent polls indicate a decline in the Democratic Party's favorability compared to Republicans, attributed to internal conflicts and a failure to address economic concerns effectively.

3. Economic Strategies: President Trump's economic policies, including tax reforms and Spectrum auctions, are posited to potentially revitalizing the American economy, contingent on effective implementation and global strategic positioning.

4. Technological Advancements: The importance of Spectrum auctions and the rollout of 5G technology are critical for maintaining America's leadership in wireless innovation, as discussed by Ajit Pai.

5. Media Critique: The podcast critiques mainstream media approaches, emphasizing the need for more authentic and informative journalism that serves the American public rather than perpetuating partisan narratives.

6. Engagement and Entertainment: Through segments like "King of the Hill," the podcast intertwines political analysis with entertainment, critiquing ideological shifts and extreme stances within conservative circles.

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Conclusion

In "Can The DNC Beat Hogg?", the Ruthless Podcast offers a comprehensive analysis of the Democratic Party's internal challenges, the impact of President Trump's economic policies, and the critical role of technological advancements in shaping America's future. Through engaging discussions, notable interviews, and entertaining segments, the hosts provide listeners with insightful perspectives on contemporary political dynamics.

Transcript

[Josh Holmes]

The fact that we're talking about Hogg is one of my favorites. Just because of, I mean, you're greeting at White House Correspondents association, his willingness to keep up the good fight.

[Michael Duncan]

Hold Democrats, hold him accountable, hold elected Democrats accountable. You gotta do it.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, you did a nice job on that, Scott. But second of all, they can't just challenge the obvious fact that party resources that a member of its leadership committee argues should be diverting to defeating their own versus Republicans is not a violation of their charter. It's the diversity issue.

[Michael Duncan]

That's what struck me is you thought after the election of President Trump they would get the message, you know, about the DEI stuff, about the very successful ad of like Kamala's for they them, you know, Trump is for you. And yet the very first chance they get, the DNC's trying to cut off their hog.

[Josh Holmes]

The Biden pill penalty is crippling the development of life saving drugs for cancer, Alzheimer's and other deadly diseases. It's already slashed funding for pill based medicines by 70%. Thankfully, President Trump is leading the fight to end the Biden pill penalty. President Trump's plan will unleash innovation, lower costs and save American lives. Call Congress, tell them to stand with President Trump and include a repeal of.

[Terry Moran]

The Biden pill penalty in the budget reconciliation bill.

[John Ashbrook]

Ladies and gentlemen, your attention please.

[Michael Duncan]

Keep the fate, hold the line and own the lids.

[John Ashbrook]

It's time for our main event.

[Josh Holmes]

Good Thursday to all of you. Welcome back to the ruthless Friday program. I'm Josh Holmes along with comfortably smug Michael Duncan and John Ashbrook, left to right, across your radio dial. As always, the big question that is facing much of the Democratic Party this week is can they, as Democrats, beat the hog? Open question. I told you it wasn't going to be the last time we talked about that. You got one show exclusively related to the hog, and I told you it was going to be reoccurring. But now this is like in each and every week, some are scared of the hog.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah, well, there's big efforts to silence hog and zipper him, if you will. Oh, Jesus.

[John Ashbrook]

They're trying to keep him down.

[Josh Holmes]

That's how we start. That's how we started. Look at Smug. Just smiling and looking right at him.

[Michael Duncan]

No, I, I, I got mine that I saved for this.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, you got your.

[Michael Duncan]

Please, I've got one sitting in the back pocket.

[Comfortably Smug]

Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

All right, so for those of you who haven't followed along lately, listen, we're gonna cover a bunch of stuff here. David Hogg, the person Who? Vice chair of the dnc, came out a couple of weeks ago, said he was gonna start primarying Democrats. Big faux pas in party politics these days. But you see a bunch of Democrats where it's Cory Booker or Chris Van Hollen or you're just your rank and file who have their name on a ballot, fearful of the hog because they don't wanna be primaried and yet they're trying to deal with all of this internally. There's a move from within the DNC to try to get rid of the hog. Some say they like the hog, other people fearful of the hog. Either way, the hog is still a topic of conversation here in Washington D.C. we're gonna get to all of that. Great interview this week by President Donald Trump with abc. We're gonna break all of that down. We've got some poll numbers that you're gonna want to listen to and provide. You know, one thing that we do here on the Variety program, not everybody does, is we all have an experience in polling cross tabs, what it all means, directions, you know, things over time that maybe glean some insights beyond what these dumbass newspapers print on the front page and say, here's what happening, you know, I mean, they don't, they were never meant for news consumption. They're meant for practitioners, whether you're in marketing or politics or whatever. But. So you're going to get a bunch of nonsense. We're going to straighten all that out. We've got some variety, one of which is just completely insane. Big discussion online for the last week about gorilla versus man.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And this is right up our alley.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, we're America.

[Michael Duncan]

We're the trailblazers on this subject.

[Josh Holmes]

We're America's preeminent animal fighting podcast. And so we're gonna weigh in on that. I'm told that we have some video, have not seen it would like a real authentic reaction. So I don't think we viewed any of this. No, but it's. It's men versus a gorilla and who would, you know, how many numbers it would take and all that kind of thing. We got that. And then King of the Hill is back.

[Comfortably Smug]

Back, baby, back.

[Josh Holmes]

Remember, we take a hiatus over hack madness and we're just now getting the whole squad back together on a Thursday. And so we will take care of that for you. A delight. And then we've got one of the, one of our favorite people for a variety of different reasons. You may remember him when he was the FCC chairman in the first Four years under President Donald Trump.

[Michael Duncan]

Ajit Pai, great guest.

[Josh Holmes]

He's now the CEO of ctia, which is a really prominent communications trade association in town that do a lot of good work. But he's got a lot to say, particularly in solving problems. Solving problems for the Ruthless Variety program, frankly.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Which is.

[Michael Duncan]

And that's the thing is, you know, the interview is terrific. I think everyone is really gonna want to hear this. But it is so important, the work that they are advocating for, of how much it's gonna help President Trump, of how much it's gonna help the American people and how much money it's gonna make for America.

[Josh Holmes]

And I always love. Oh, go ahead.

[Comfortably Smug]

He brought Whistle Pig.

[Josh Holmes]

He did bring Russell Pig.

[Comfortably Smug]

So obviously he's cool.

[John Ashbrook]

He's an OG Ruthless guy. I mean, he was one of our first guests we ever had. Early, like maybe early 21 believed in.

[Josh Holmes]

Us when nobody else did, other than Tom Cotton, who nearly mortgaged his career by coming on the program first.

[John Ashbrook]

But.

[Josh Holmes]

But I will say the one thematic that we have with all of our guests, particularly in the policy making area, is we like to ask what is in it for us?

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And it turns out in this case, there's a direct applicability.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

You, dear listener, while you like and subscribe to the Ruthless Variety program, the reason that you can get this and not just your horseshit, cnn, msnbc, abc, cbs, NBC stuff is in large part because of the airwaves, because of wireless communications. He talks a lot about how the availability for all of that very much in question. With the scaling up of shows like this, unless they do something about it. The good news is they've got a bunch of champions. You heard a little bit from Ted Cruz, who we had him on, and they're fixing to do something about it, including President Trump, who seems like a huge champion on that front. So all of that coming right at you. But we like to start with the Hawk. It turns out there's a big piece in Semaphore. Is that outfit with Ben Smith, right?

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah. It's really growing. They had a big party in town. Everybody went.

[Josh Holmes]

Did you go?

[John Ashbrook]

I did. I couldn't go. I had another.

[Michael Duncan]

Look how sad he is. He didn't go to Ben Smith. The big hacks party looks mad about that, huh?

[Comfortably Smug]

It's.

[John Ashbrook]

But I mean, everybody's reading it. He's hired a lot of really smart people. And I'm not surprised they have a scoop like this.

[Josh Holmes]

It's a. It's a big scoop. The scoop is a native American woman gets a chance to topple hog. Topple the hog.

[John Ashbrook]

Mm.

[Comfortably Smug]

Wow.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. You might say she's trying to get on top of the hall.

[Comfortably Smug]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, she is. I mean, she's trying to become vice chair. I mean, that's. I'm just figuring it's not.

[Comfortably Smug]

This is going to be a great show.

[John Ashbrook]

It's right there in black and white.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, it's what it says. And so the candidate who failed to win the Democratic National Committee leadership roles, according to Semaphore, is challenging her defeat. The first threat to DNC Vice Chair David Hogg, since he vowed to keep backing some primary challenges to incumbents. The DNC's credentials committee will meet virtually on May 12th. So a couple weeks from now to consider a challenge from Kaylin Free, a Native American attorney and party activist who lost a chair spot to Hogg at the party's Feb. 1 meeting. In her complaint, shared with Semaphore by a Democratic source. It couldn't possibly have been Freeh herself. It's just a source.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah, it's just a source.

[Josh Holmes]

It's just a source who just happened upon all of her information. She argued that she lost a, quote, fatally flawed election that violated DNC charter and discriminated against three women of color candidates. Unquote. Yes. And asks for, quote, two new vice chair elections in February. After rounds of voting, the race came down to five candidates. Kenyatta and Hogg. Freeh and two other women. Kenyatta and Hogg claimed the open spots, she says, by aggravating, aggregating the votes across ballots and failing to distinguish between gender categories in a meaningful way. So good. The DNC process violated its own charter and bylaws by undermining both fairness and gender diversity, argued Free. She's a citizen of the Choctaw Nation. Here's my favorite part. This is I like. First of all, the fact that we're talking about Hogg is one of my favorites. Just because of. I mean, you're greeting at White House Correspondents association his willingness to keep up the good fight. Hold Democrats.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah. Hold him accountable. Hold elected Democrats accountable. Gotta do it.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, you did a nice job on that. Smug. But second of all, they can't just challenge the obvious fact the party resources that a member of its leadership committee argues should be diverting to defeating their own versus Republicans is not a violation of their charter. It's the diversity issue that is really going to be the one that takes him out. A little insight into how Democrats make their decision.

[Michael Duncan]

And to me, that's the Thing. So when I first saw this, that's what struck me is you thought after the election of President Trump, they would get the message, you know, about the DEI stuff, about the very successful ad of like Kamala's for they them, Trump is for you. And yet the very first chance they get, the DNC's trying to cut off their hog. Very first thing they can do within seconds after them electing it, cut off the hog. We're right back at it.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, as you know, they found that a way to compete in a lot of different ways is by cutting off the hog. It's been somewhat of a, kind of.

[Michael Duncan]

The way they like to compete.

[Comfortably Smug]

I gotta say, I love the theatricality of this whole thing. This is like coming for the Democratic Party itself and what it is, and it's smug. You talk about this a lot, but, like, it isn't an actual ideology. It's just about power. And that's what we're seeing here. That's what this really is.

[Josh Holmes]

It's just levers to use for power.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah, like you read this story and you're like, oh, well, I mean, they're doing Democrat things, right? But like, actually what this is, this is power politics in the Democratic Party. And they've done it forever to stop, you know, intraparty primary challenges. Democratic Party, like, how dare you attack me? I'm a left handed, lesbian, African American woman. And in reality, it's because, like, you know, you're not far enough to the left. But they use, they use this language of dei.

[Josh Holmes]

Yes.

[Comfortably Smug]

To obfuscate to their base, which is far left of them, and use that to get out of a jam, which is this guy's gonna go ahead and he's gonna open up the primary process and challenge some incumbents. So how do we get out of this jam?

[Michael Duncan]

Bingo.

[Comfortably Smug]

All right, we'll use dei. We'll use this Native American woman to basically unseat a guy who actually threatens the power structure itself.

[Michael Duncan]

That's 100% right.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, I think that those are all very good points. But one thing that sticks out to me is that I was told by Democrats for years that election results are sacrosanct. There's something you should never question. And then once an election is finalized, it's in concrete and you can never go back, even ask.

[Josh Holmes]

I did hear that.

[John Ashbrook]

And here we have in their own party, someone saying, that's not the case.

[Josh Holmes]

It's not the fair. Well, I mean, look, in fairness, they're trying to bury the hog.

[John Ashbrook]

Right?

[Josh Holmes]

That's what's happening here. You just got to wrap your mind around it. They're trying to bury the hog because the hog presents danger to the rest of the community.

[John Ashbrook]

And so you never know what was going to happen.

[Comfortably Smug]

If they remove him, it's going to be a premature evacuation from the dnc.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, you can see where we're going around the ruthless variety program. Democrats are overwhelmed with hog at a time when they're least able to deal with it. New polling paints a dire picture for Democrats. We're going to tell you about all that polling because you've only read about the other side of the story on it. We're going to give you a larger picture right after this.

[Comfortably Smug]

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[Josh Holmes]

Okay. While Democrats are staring at their hog, it turns out there's a bunch of new polling that's come out. If chances are, if you've seen it and not heard about it on the ruthless variety program, they're talking about it in context of Trump. Yeah, well, it's not great news for the Democratic Party. They're traveling to El Salvador and dealing with the hog, as we mentioned before. But it turns out, according to Fox News, the poll shows that Democrats are less popular than Republicans. Can we play clip one, please?

[Comfortably Smug]

A FOX News poll shows their popularity.

[Josh Holmes]

Has hit a new low.

[Comfortably Smug]

41% of voters view the Democratic Party favorably.

[Josh Holmes]

By contrast, 44% of voters view Republicans.

[Comfortably Smug]

Positively, the GOP topping their counterparts for the first time in a decade. The drop in positivity for Democrats fueled mainly by members of their own party.

[Josh Holmes]

Who are not happy with how they've been leading. Okay.

[Michael Duncan]

So I think that's critical too.

[Josh Holmes]

That's it.

[Michael Duncan]

That's an important point right there.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, look, we've talked about this a lot in that there is fair game to go for when you're dealing with opposition politics. And the entirety of the job of leadership under the dome, which is where they're relegated to their power. They don't have the White House, they don't have the House, they don't have the Senate. They have leadership in a minority capacity in the House and Senate and then a bunch of stuff in the states. And the entirety of that role is to try to make sure you pick your spots in a way that align you with the majority of Americans versus where an incumbent Republican majority and presidency are. Now, you could talk about the economy, you could talk about tariffs, you could talk about the lack of tax deals. You could talk about all those things of which you would get to 50 plus 1, if not much higher. What they've chosen to talk about is El Salvador, whether or not a gang member, as was said by two courts in a former ex boyfriend now is somebody we ought to have coming back to this country as a Maryland man. You could talk about whether to save foreign aid projects. That's what they've chosen, right?

[John Ashbrook]

No, you're exactly right. And say what you will about the first quarter gdp, about the stock market and everything else, but they are not providing an opposition to any of that.

[Josh Holmes]

No, that's not.

[John Ashbrook]

They are literally putting their insanity on full display on a daily basis. And like the story on this guy, the Maryland man who went to El Salvador, it continues to unfold poorly for them. There was a brand new Fox report that came out just as we were recording this show about another restraining order against where the wife is quoted that he was saying he would kill her and nobody could do anything about it.

[Josh Holmes]

A United States senator trapped to El Salvador to ensure that this man had the capacity to come back and live in our communities. That's what they've chosen. Right. You're battling your own hog and traveling to El Salvador to get a gang member back.

[Michael Duncan]

And along those lines also, it's not relegated to simply this individual Maryland man. It's like they are in this weird pattern of they're trying to defend the absolute worst people possible. There was a story of multiple judges now who are essentially just like aiding and abetting illegal aliens who are also gang members involved in horrific acts. There was this one in Arizona where they like unsealed the evidence and whatever and so they go to this judge's house and they collect this illegal alien who the judges had living with him and his wife, New Mexico. And like, they're trying to be like, what kind of evidence do we have that this guy was like a gang member? And they're like, the judge, this. This is almost so insane, it's unbelievable. The judge destroyed the illegal alien's phone, which had images of him.

[Josh Holmes]

Come on.

[Michael Duncan]

Committing crimes. They had on his phone, he had images of enemies of the gang getting beheaded. And they arrested the gang member with a gold chain that said killer. Let's.

[John Ashbrook]

Like, we. We have.

[Michael Duncan]

How do you get yourself into a corner where you're like, well, the guy with the chain that says killer might be.

[Josh Holmes]

Okay, well, I'm an administrator of justice. Let me do that. This killer is our killer.

[Comfortably Smug]

Put him in our au pair suite.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, but of course not. Right. Because your rich, sort of effete Democratic Party, as it is today, does not have to put them in their au pair suite. They make them go live with the rest of us. It's unbelievable.

[Ajit Pai]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

I think the other thing that you gotta look at is the rest of this poll. If you look at some of what Fox is reporting, it shows that the President's approval has taken a hit. And what I don't understand about what Democrats are doing is why they're doubling down on this stupidity with El Salvador and all of the lunacy, David Hogg and the infighting when it seems like they have. They have real opportunity here.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah. On the economy, on tariffs, on things like that. Can we put up graphic number one, please? Yeah. So this is Donald Trump's approval and a host of polls. Here we have ABC News, New York Times, CNN, Reuters, Pew, AP. And you see 42% approval, 55, disapproval, 42, 54, 43, 57. You get the idea here. And that is, you know, it was.

[Josh Holmes]

At parody a couple months ago.

[Comfortably Smug]

It was. It was.

[Ajit Pai]

And.

[Comfortably Smug]

But people are getting nervous about the economy. Look, this is the reason why they elected Donald Trump was to fix the economy.

[John Ashbrook]

But the fact that Democrats are not talking about any of that, it's insane. Fundamental disconnect between their entire party and normal people out there who are like, I'm done with Democrats.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. See, this stuff is happening organically. Right, Right. They're not doing anything to try to amplify this message whatsoever. I mean, they're talking about stuff that the American people are well on the side of Donald Trump on, but they're not amplifying. This stuff is happening over economic Anxiety, you can see it in consumer confidence numbers that came out, I mean obviously the GDP numbers that came out like people, there's a time of economic anxiety and a lot of that is happening. Cuz he's sort of in the first stage of his economic plan. The one thing I'll do to put this in context a little bit, I'm not surprised that his poll numbers have slid. He has told us it's going to slide. He told us the economy is going to have some issues as we transition. If you did absolutely nothing with the economy whatsoever, you know, if you like literally just took the keys of the White House and did what Biden did, which is basically sat there. Not what Biden did in that he allowed a bunch of left wing lunatics to jam through trillions of dollars of spending and put us into inflation hell. But rather just nothing, did nothing at all. American economy would be okay. You'd have very modest growth, but it'd be growth. Very modest job creation, but it'd be growth. You'd have very stagnant wage growth, but it'd be growth. And like that's the status quo that much of corporate America, Wall street, the punditry class appreciates because it's consistent, it's consistent mediocrity. And Donald Trump never ran on consistent mediocrity. What he ran on was a fundamental change of this economy that was growing jobs at a rate that we hadn't grown since the Industrial Revolution. And having a GDP that was not 2%, it was 12%. And having revitalized communities across the middle of this country that had a new generation of manufacturing and everything else now you don't flip a switch and do it. Energy policy, trade policy, tax policy, whole bunch of things that he's been announcing over the last. They all have to kind of come together to do it. And if you look at just isolate 2 the tax policy and the trade policy, all of us can say in regards to tariffs makes us nervous. It does, it makes me nervous. I've never been a huge fan of it. I've always thought of it as like sort of a lefty union Democrat point of view. Is like the idea that you could just erect economic walls around the United States and we'd be okay. Is just, it's never been the case when we have an international economy, I mean that our exports are a big deal, but if it is a means to get a better set of deals where you have manufacturing capacity in the United States to actually export to places that aren't allowing our Products in you have fundamentally changed what that economy looks like. Now, does anybody think that the international community is going to agree to that overnight? Absolutely not. They're not. They're just. Because nobody's ever even threatened it before. They're like, I don't know, let's see if we can wait them out. Maybe public opinion will go low enough in America where he can't actually hold it up. Now, I understand they've come to the table, but that is going to take time to get those things done. For all of the people who have been talking about the tariff policy and how it's ruining the economy and pointing to the GDP numbers in Q1, wait until Q3. If this dude announces some significant deals, say with Japan, say with the eu, say with India, say with a couple of like really formidable economies. I doubt China's first. I'm just saying I just don't think that's going to happen. But say that happens, coupled with Congress actually reenacting these tax cuts, you could see an October in this country that looks like an economic rocket ship boon, the likes of which we've never seen. And that is, I think, for those of us who are maybe questioning whether or not tariffs are the right tool or not are holding powder. Because if those two things get done and you unleash that in the third quarter of this year, boy, I'm not sure that in my lifetime we've seen an economy that will rebound and soar.

[John Ashbrook]

Like that and then restructured in a way that doesn't leave behind all the people that the President said that he wanted to help. I mean, when you're talking about like marginal growth and little by little by little and everybody in D.C. and in the establishment is like, yes, this is exactly what I want, it little by little overlooks a whole host of this population that the President ran to help. And so if he can deliver the kind of economic growth that you're talking about with a little bit of a different structure that creates more jobs, better paying jobs for people in flyover country out there who've been forgotten by, you know, for decades. I mean, that's a very, that's a transformational situation.

[Josh Holmes]

It is. I mean, just remember, like the street loves certainty and they love certainty in a lot of ways, a lot of reasons because you can plan far ahead and you can make capital investments one way or another. And they have a tendency of having predictable growth over time. They like the predictable growth they take fees on. Fundamentally, what you're talking about is a group of people who are making money off of trading your money. Right. That's it. I'm not saying it's a bad thing.

[Michael Duncan]

No, that's just how it works.

[Josh Holmes]

Managing assets, that's just how that works. And so they don't want any sort of like fundamental restructuring. I mean, you have to go back to the drawing board. An awful lot of that, if that is the business model and that's why they're so upset, is because there's a business model change here that they're going to have to go back to the drawing board. Now they're perfectly capable people. The reason they make hundreds of millions of dollars is because they can figure it out. Like they will figure it out one way or another. The question is whether the economic environment around it is such that allows for this sort of rapid growth. But if you can do that in the context of actually doing real new next gen manufacturing jobs, revitalizing communities, having real wage growth in this country, that is a, it's a fundamental principle that Democrats actually don't understand, like liberal Democrats do not. They cannot wrap their minds around what a true market economy means in this country. Everybody's always a victim. They can never actually put their finger on how economic growth has helped communities around this country.

[Michael Duncan]

And it's part of why they have such frustration and consternation, understanding why the working class of this America voted for and supported Donald Trump so much when at the same time you look statistically after President Trump's previous. The cut, cut, cut the tcga, how the greatest capture of benefits and the greatest wage growth. Wage growth was among the bottom quartile. The working class in this country benefited the most from that.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. So I mean, look, you look at Trump's poll numbers in comparison to where they were in February and the way where they were right after the inauguration, they're down. They're down a lot. And it's exclusively related. I know that they're like, you know, gonna go across issue and talk about immigration and talk about my experience in 20 years of doing this is everything is related to your economic anxiety. You're gonna find problems with all kinds of things. If you think somebody's screwing up your pocketbook and if that changes, so too does everything else. I mean, remember Bill Clinton? Bill Clinton, historically, for the first time in like four generations, lost a House of Representatives that had codlock Democratic control. They tried to get Hillary care and all that shit. Hey, kidnapp came to the table and did a deal with Newt Gingrich and all of a sudden they had a, a Reform of welfare programs and a whole bunch of different things. The economy responded. And you had this.com boom that happened in the late 90s. Well, nobody cared about Monica Lewinsky. You know, nobody cared about the stupid bullshit of a day to day basis of the Clinton administration in large part because their pocketbooks were. It was worked.

[Michael Duncan]

The economy started ripping, America started doing good.

[Josh Holmes]

And that is, I think the key to what we're looking at. So, like, you could snapshot this thing and it would be a warning sign to the Trump administration to say, like, look, what's going on right now is not sustainable over a long term period. But I think they already know that. I mean, if you listen to Besant, you listen to Lutnick, you listen to all of the folks within the administration, what they're saying is this is a tool for us to be able to bring the world community back to the table for the first time since 1945, to actually renegotiate what is a good deal for American workers. If that is the premise and if they are working towards those deals and you couple it with tax reform, I mean, Katie, bar the door. We're in a really good. These numbers. We're gonna laugh about this. Yep, we're gonna laugh about it. And you know, it'll be like, the economy's ripping, everything's good. Like his approval rating goes up, all of those things go up. And then you'll see like a number of his handling on Israel or Russia or whatever that similarly would be up and you'd be like, what changed? Well, nothing other than the fact that people feel pretty good about where they're at. And that's the essence of politics. I mean a macro level politics is different when you get local, but like that's national politics in a nutshell. Anyway, just wanted to give you some, just a little bit of thought.

[Michael Duncan]

Huge congrats to the audience for getting that for free. That's some good info.

[Josh Holmes]

So that's my take. But the congressional. I think the question for all of you and our question of the day is what do you think gets Trump back above 50? We were there, we've slipped. You heard our thoughts. Be interested in yours. That's our question of the day. You gotta like and subscribe to the YouTube channel. We read all of your comments and after we do that, we put them here on the show. Pick some representative examples. And we always do that with some flair. Mm, with some flair. When we come back, we're gonna talk about our last episode when we asked, what's a Real reckoning for journos. We talked about the White House Correspondence center, you two assholes. And like, just making a mockery of the whole thing.

[Comfortably Smug]

I would say. Handsome assholes.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, corrected.

[Comfortably Smug]

Give us our flowers.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, no handsome assholes, but assholes nevertheless. Where they are. The White House correspondents thinner. And what is a real reckoning for these journalists as they're awarding themselves for other people's work? What does it look like? Is it like just bankrupting the thing? Is it, I don't know your thoughts right after this? Hardworking Americans know when it's time to roll up our sleeves and get the job done.

[John Ashbrook]

Now is the time to unleash our.

[Josh Holmes]

Nation'S energy, to create jobs, secure our future, and make life better, more affordable and full of opportunity for all Americans. That's the power of America's oil and natural gas. Learn [e-mail] paid for by the American Petroleum Institute. Okay, we asked last week or Tuesday, I guess.

[Michael Duncan]

Yep.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, Tuesday we asked what's the real reckoning for journos? When you like and subscribe, we read all of your stuff. And when we read all of your stuff, we always start with a voice.

[John Ashbrook]

Okay, first comment comes from Nanku. Nanku writes, a true reckoning for journos. These people are true believers. And the more you push or punish them, the more they will dig in and will be convinced that they are correct. I do not disagree with you on that, Nancu. I think we just need to keep telling the truth, make it attractive or entertaining if possible, and eventually enough people will come to our side and simply leave those lefty journos irrelevant. That's Nancy from Orange County, California.

[Josh Holmes]

Orange County? They got some real ones in Orange County. I'll say.

[Michael Duncan]

It's like the Alamo. Yeah, you're right there. The crazies are right at the gates.

[John Ashbrook]

Light in the desert it is.

[Josh Holmes]

It's like the one place that sort of hell. Like a shining city on a hill.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yes, the gates of Thermopylae. They are the brave 300.

[Josh Holmes]

They really are.

[Comfortably Smug]

Comment to haruncs this is from Chris. Chris. Chris. I would love to see each of them held accountable for all their lies. Biopic of each reporter with each story they covered that was false.

[Michael Duncan]

Yes.

[Comfortably Smug]

A central database of everyone who calls themselves journalists with every fact they left out, lied about or twisted or maybe tagged on every article or television story. A community note. If it's on tv, it should run across the bottom of the screen like sports scores. Or maybe we should all smarten up. And separate facts from opinion on our own. It's difficult since all the facts reported are pre tainted with opinion for our indoctrination. Just the facts, ma'am, used to be the journalistic standard. Maybe my expectations are unrealistic.

[Michael Duncan]

That's really good.

[Josh Holmes]

I like it. Thoughtful, thoughtful. Smuggler. We got third.

[Michael Duncan]

This is from Donald S. Quote of the day, Gitmo. Straight to Gitmo. From your lips to Donald T's ears.

[Josh Holmes]

That was, I think a suggestion that you may have proffered.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, I mean, El Salvador, you know, they clearly have a good thing going. I think a lot of journalists would benefit from that.

[Josh Holmes]

You know what I'd like? I realize some of this is subjective, but the stuff that's not, that's just like objectively wrong. Like the Russian disinfo stuff, the Hunter Biden laptop stuff. I'd like to be sort of some kind of a database, not a government held database. I'd like if journalism wanted to revitalize itself, it would self govern itself in like one specific way. Here are things the various outlets that are a part of our community say White House Correspondents association have reported that we now know are demonstrably false.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And you can't get off that list.

[John Ashbrook]

Right.

[Josh Holmes]

Until you've publicly apologized for it.

[John Ashbrook]

Well, here's the other thing. You could, you could make baseball cards. And on the back of the baseball card every single year you have every lie that was told. And then if they want to get a better baseball card the following season, just start telling the truth. It's very simple.

[Comfortably Smug]

I like that.

[Josh Holmes]

Maybe a not so glossy photo or something.

[John Ashbrook]

It's up to the, you know, maybe tops, upper deck. Don Russer, Fleer. Maybe they could do it, get on it.

[Josh Holmes]

It's an idea. This guy's trying to get into P. Rose.

[Comfortably Smug]

I know he wants it.

[Josh Holmes]

He's trying so bad.

[Comfortably Smug]

Won't do it.

[Josh Holmes]

He won't do it. Won't do it. We're not doing it. Anyway, thank you for your comments.

[John Ashbrook]

Like the Baseball Writers association.

[Josh Holmes]

Like and subscribe when you do. We do all of your stuff and remember our question of the day today. When we come back, Donald Trump went toe to toe with ABC News. Now it's sort of a rare thing. They don't do sit downs with the fake news very often, much less, you know, your traditional nets. But they did one with abc. We have the clips and analysis right after this.

[Terry Moran]

The next phase of our plan is to pass tax cuts for everybody.

[Ajit Pai]

President Trump won on a promise to cut tax taxes to Keep American businesses competitive. So why are some Republicans pushing to raise taxes? Our tax rate is already higher than Communist China.

[Josh Holmes]

The current basalt plan is a tax.

[Ajit Pai]

Hike on American business. And when business taxes go up, workers and families pay. Tell Congress, make the Trump tax cuts permanent. Stop the basalt assault.

[Josh Holmes]

So you may have seen the big rally in Michigan, which was nice, by the way, to see Trump back on the big stage doing the rally thing. Crowds seem.

[Michael Duncan]

People forget why it's so fun. And it is. I mean, it is amazing.

[Josh Holmes]

It really is. It's a big cultural experience. And he did two events in Michigan. One was an event with the military where they're announcing some things. He dragged old, poor Gretchen Whitmer up, which I do have to do an aside on that, you guys. We didn't really cover it on the show. But you remember, was it like, a month ago where she went into the Oval Office to talk to Trump about something?

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, but when to get an airport in Michigan.

[Comfortably Smug]

Right when the photos started going up, she put the binder over her face.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. She, like, literally covered her face with her folder so she would not be photographed with Donald Trump.

[Comfortably Smug]

Hilarious.

[Josh Holmes]

And, like, my take, I think probably we didn't talk about it, but your take at the time was, like, once Donald Trump sees this, that he sees a weakness.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And, like, it's only a matter of time before she's treated like a blue ribbon retriever at the Westminster Dog show, and he's gonna trot her back out for everyone to see. And, like, sure enough, that happened in Michigan, and she wasn't expected to speak. And he was like, oh, come on out. And had her address the thing, because it's like a hilarious juxtaposition of a Democrat, hugely ambitious Democrat who thinks she's the next president of the United States States that knows that the base, the Democratic Party can't be seen.

[Comfortably Smug]

Well, Trump likes to see people like that have to squirm.

[Michael Duncan]

It's so good. It is so good. It's such a high level of political acumen. And the irony of it is, like, everyone paints Donald Trump as this just, like, egomaniacal child asshole who's like, no, what he's doing right here is putting political acumen in front of ego. Because he's like, to the grassroots Looney Tunes, Dems, I am a kiss of death. Let's bring Gretchen up here and just poison the well.

[John Ashbrook]

And you know what? He knew she couldn't say no. Do you know how? Because she was wearing a camo hat. Anytime a Democrat puts on a Camo hat. They want to be seen. He sees the camo hat. He's like, ah, she's coming out in the camera.

[Josh Holmes]

She's coming out. Well, anyway, as a part of that trip, he sat down with ABC's Terry Moran, which is somewhat of a rarity to sit down with one of the major networks, because you know how they deal with these things. Few clips that we want to highlight. Let's do clip two, please, if you mind spaghetti.

[Terry Moran]

We have to get him out, and we're doing it, and you'll pick out one man. But even the man that you picked out, he's got a piece said he wasn't a member of a gang. And then they looked, and on his knuckles, he had MS.13.

[Josh Holmes]

There's a dispute.

[Terry Moran]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. He had ms.13 on his.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, he had some tattoos that are interpreted that way. But let's move on.

[Terry Moran]

Wait a minute. Okay, Terry, Terry, Terry.

[Josh Holmes]

He did not have the letter MS.13.

[Terry Moran]

It says MS.13.

[Josh Holmes]

That was photoshopped. So let me.

[Terry Moran]

That was Photoshopped. Terry, you can't do that. Hey, they're giving you the big break of a lifetime. You know, you're doing the interview. I picked you because, frankly, I never heard of you. But that's. But you're not being very nice. He had ms.13 tattoo.

[Ajit Pai]

We'll agree to disagree.

[Josh Holmes]

I want to move on to something else.

[Terry Moran]

Terry, do you want me to show you the picture? I saw the picture.

[Ajit Pai]

Here we go. Here we go.

[Terry Moran]

Don't Photoshop it. Go look at his hand. He had MS.13.

[Josh Holmes]

He did have tattoos that can be interpreted that way. I'm not in that. I want to get to Ukraine.

[Terry Moran]

No, no, no, no. He had Ms. As clear as you can be. Not interpreted. This is why people no longer believe. Well, the news. Because when he was photographed in El.

[Josh Holmes]

In.

[Terry Moran]

In El Salvador.

[Josh Holmes]

They aren't there, but let's just go. They aren't there when he's in El.

[Terry Moran]

There now, right? No, but they're there. They're in your picture, Terry.

[Josh Holmes]

Ukraine.

[Terry Moran]

Sir, he's got MS.13 on his knuckles. All right. Okay, we'll take a look. It's. You do such a disservice. We'll take a look at this. Why don't you just say, yes, he does, and, you know, go on to something else?

[John Ashbrook]

And it's so great.

[Michael Duncan]

It's amazing. It's amazing that, like, this is. Again, this is where. This is the hill they've chosen to die on.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

They are trying to just, like, gaslight people into being like, well, listen, just because the tattoos say he's a gang member and, and there's affidavits saying he's a gang member and a previous judge has confirmed that he's a gang member. It's like you have elected Democrats flying down there to the point that, like, Hakeem Jeffries has to send out a note that gets leaked to the press of being like, stop flying down there and seeing the gang members.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, yeah. You know, everybody, everybody watches this interview and they think they're watching Donald Trump dunk on some other journo anchorman. But what I saw was the end of the intro to Ken Burns Civil War documentary. And at the end of that intro, you have the very last video footage of Civil War veterans marching in town squares. And every time I see the legacy media get bodied by Donald Trump, all I can think of is those last few Civil War veterans. We are seeing the footage real and in person. So just take it all in. It's a special treat because it is the end of an era.

[Josh Holmes]

I think that's a really good segue to the next next clip, actually, because I think this sets it up with clip three. Please begets.

[Terry Moran]

You have 100% confidence in. 100% confidence in anything. Okay?

[Josh Holmes]

Anything.

[Terry Moran]

Do I have 100%? It's a stupid question. Look, it's pretty important. I have. No, no, no, you don't have 100%. Only a liar would say I have 100% confidence. I don't have 100% confidence that we're going to finish this interview.

[Ajit Pai]

We will.

[Comfortably Smug]

This is just next level.

[Josh Holmes]

To take the point you were making to the next level is Donald Trump's ability in real time. The eq and Duncan, you and I have spoken about this a lot. To listen to a question. And that, that, by the way, is something like Kamala Harris can't do. Obviously Joe Biden couldn't do. But I don't think there's really anybody, maybe Josh Shapiro, you know, a handful of Democrats could maybe entertain components of it. But listen, really listen to a question and not be formulating the talking point, but seizing on something that is a weasel word that the Democrats have used for decades to try to pin Republicans in to an answer. And in this case, do you have 100% confidence? Confidence in Pete Hegseth now, what they, you know, an omission of Yes, I have 100% confidence is, well, he has doubts. He has doubts when like what Trump said is he pulls this out is saying like, nobody has 100% confidence in anything. Yeah. Like a guy could get hit by the bus tomorrow.

[Michael Duncan]

Yep.

[Josh Holmes]

I have 100% confidence in nothing other than what I'm trying to do on a day to day basis, because that's what I can control.

[Comfortably Smug]

Well, the remarkable thing is Donald Trump's been on the political scene for almost a decade now. And for whatever reason, these network news people haven't figured out how to interview him. They think they're gonna put him to the wall on something by asking these bullshit questions and using this framing that they always do. I mean, how much tape do you have to watch of Donald Trump disassembling questions to think, boy, if I want to make news out of this, I better approach it a different way.

[Josh Holmes]

So this is the point. And look, you get some of this in the ruthless variety program when we do interviews is the whole point of news media, when they do interviews with notable public figures is try to extract information that you wouldn't ordinarily get, get some thought and insight into their process, have them explain and make the people understand what it is that they're doing and how it impacts their lives. But ever since, like Richard Nixon, every single journalist looks at any opportunity with a Republican president as though it's Frost, Nixon. They really do. And so it's like, oh, here's my chance to go knee to knee, first of all, the setup. I mean, get the fuck out of here. To chair. Like, in what concept of life would you have two, like, fold out chairs sitting knee to knee, staring at each other, asking questions like the inauthenticity of all of that, which the media does, it adds to the complete show that it is.

[John Ashbrook]

That's such a good point.

[Josh Holmes]

And the genius of what he does, which you always say, Duncan, it reveals the theater.

[Comfortably Smug]

He reveals the theater of the thing. He breaks the fourth wall with the audience. And especially when he gets those questions and he's like, all right, pal, we're gonna do this. Yeah, okay, well, I'm gonna go ahead and disassemble all. This is a big shot for you and you're blowing it.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, you know, back broken when he was like, I don't think I've ever heard of you, but okay, let's do this.

[Comfortably Smug]

What a stupid, what a stupid question that is. And he's not doing that. Like people think Trump is doing that just to be a jerk. It's not. It's because once he starts to hear those questions and the formulation, the way they're trying to, you know, put him to the wall on something with a 100%. 100%. You know, like, he's a student of media. This guy watches a lot of television. He understands how questions are formed to be a gotcha question. He doesn't appreciate that.

[Michael Duncan]

He was in the 80s Tabloid media environment in New York City. If you come up through that, like, you are bulletproof.

[Comfortably Smug]

And it's not exactly.

[Michael Duncan]

Terry Moran thinks he's gonna show up and get a pelt. He just got thrown over Trump's knee.

[Comfortably Smug]

But he's not.

[Michael Duncan]

I never heard of you. You're about to get spanked, and let's do this.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah, it's like, Trump's not a guy who's trying to hide the. He's the most accessible president in the history of our republic.

[Josh Holmes]

Totally.

[Comfortably Smug]

He will talk constantly, but if you're gonna approach him incorrectly and do it in a BS way, like, he's gonna call you on it.

[Michael Duncan]

But you want.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, let's just take the question, right? They're talking about this guy that we've talked about. It's just endlessly the Democrats have seized upon. But the real question is whether or not he feels any sense of responsibility for anyone, not just this guy, but anyone who had been unjustly deported in whether or not he's very confident that none of that has ever happened. They always. But they have to frame it in a Frost Nixon way. Yeah, they have to frame. So Terry Moran comes in and he's just, like, throwing this dude in his face and is like, Ms. 38. Well, we have questions about the Ms. 13. We have all of these things. And then the Hagset thing is like, well, do you have confidence? Do you have 100% confidence? Like, another way of getting at all of that is, do you think that was a mistake, the Hagset thing?

[Comfortably Smug]

Right. You could make news that way.

[Josh Holmes]

I heard that you talked to him about it. Do you think that was a mistake? Stop, stop. Let it breathe. You don't need to prove a point. Let's get his answer. He's perfectly capable of giving you an answer, and he's more than willing to do it, more so than any politician that we've ever seen in American politics. Right. On the El Salvador situation, are you, like, how do you feel about, you know, whether it's not this guy and you've made a case that it's not, this guy's not wrongly deported, but if there is someone, even in the future that is deported that had, like, a legitimate right to be here and somehow was denied due process, and now he's sitting with a bunch of gang members in El Salvador. Do you feel a sense of responsibility for that? That's an interesting answer.

[Michael Duncan]

That's the wildest thing.

[Josh Holmes]

It's an interesting answer.

[Michael Duncan]

Dude, you are so right on. This is. It is such an opportunity if you were acting in good faith as an actual journalist. I mean, you've got the President of the United States and to ask questions like that, that are questions that you let breathe, that give space for an actual answer. Because the sad thing about it is these journalists aren't looking for answers. They're looking to put up points on the board because they're like, I want my team to think I'm cool.

[Josh Holmes]

Because they're playing to their point.

[Michael Duncan]

That's it. It's so sad. It's sad.

[Josh Holmes]

It's everything we talked about on Tuesday's episode. It's everything to do with the fact that the journalism isn't for you, the American consumer. It's for each other. It's for the Georgetown cocktail party. It's so like, whoever the hell they have hosting the Nightly News on NBC this week, I don't know who it is. I've never known that guy's name. After Lester Holt left, it's like. Feels like a.

[Michael Duncan]

But that's what's become of it. Because of this.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, but. But like, it's for that person to be like, hey, hell of an interview. Yep, Hell of an interview. And like, you know, some old timer to be like, you really went toe to toe, yelled his feet to the fire. And it's like, except for the fact that no American got any new information, which is the whole purpose of your fucking job to begin with.

[Michael Duncan]

You literally had one job.

[Josh Holmes]

It just blows my mind that they don't have. You don't have to have an antagonistic set of questions to elicit incredibly revealing answers that, by the way, provide some insight into what it is that you're asking about.

[Michael Duncan]

It's novel at this point. It's crazy that that is like a novel concept. You get access to the President of the United States, but you do not ask a single question that could actually provide any insight whatsoever. It makes no sense. But that's the world they live in.

[John Ashbrook]

That's why I say we're watching the end.

[Ajit Pai]

Yeah, you're right.

[John Ashbrook]

It's not interesting. You know, they're not providing an actual service to anybody.

[Josh Holmes]

It's literally the only service.

[John Ashbrook]

It is change because of it.

[Josh Holmes]

The only service that it is is those of us who get joy of watching Donald Trump body The guy sitting there asking questions.

[Comfortably Smug]

And that's the thing, is what the hell are they going to do when Donald Trump isn't on the scene?

[Josh Holmes]

Right.

[Comfortably Smug]

He makes the whole interview.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, that's why you watch. I mean, I wouldn't give a shit about that. Imagine that interview with Joe Biden, it'd be like five clicks. I mean, nobody would watch that. It would be just be ridiculous. Yeah, but. But it's not Frost, Nixon. Like we're in a different era. Like people, we got millions of you watching this on ruthless variety program, not ABC. We don't have 75,000 employees here. We got spaghetti and we got Wolf. But you're listening to it and you're getting real information and they're not providing that. They're just not providing it. So what do you get instead? Like clip for. Do you think I'm going to ask.

[Terry Moran]

You, if I may, do you think.

[Josh Holmes]

The reputation of the United States has.

[Terry Moran]

Gone down under your presidency? No, I think it's gone way up. And I think we're a respected country again. We were laughed at all over the world. We had a president that couldn't walk up a flight of stairs, couldn't walk down a flight of stairs, couldn't walk across the stage without falling. We had a president that was grossly incompetent. You knew it, I knew it and everybody knew it. But you guys didn't want to write it because you're fake news.

[Josh Holmes]

Exactly. So what is it? What do you get out of that? Yeah, what did you get out of that? You heard the first three sentences of that, which were terrific, by the way, and I really salute his ability to do it eye to eye.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah, he alpha'd him. And if you notice, at various points during that interview when he was asking the questions, he was sort of looking up.

[Josh Holmes]

Moran.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah, up and off from Trump because Trump was laser in on him and he just got completely bullied.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, totally. But the first three sentences of it were the campaign stump speech he's been doing for six months.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And then the last one is you wear fake news. So what's the takeaway as a viewer? Donald Trump's kicking the shit out of this reporter. What have you done here by framing a question to this president? I would say any politician, but particularly this guy. The world lost confidence in America as a result of your presidency.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Like the framework in and of itself tells Donald Trump offense only here.

[Michael Duncan]

Yep.

[Josh Holmes]

I'm gonna kick the shit out of this.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, Right.

[Comfortably Smug]

And it's to your point earlier, Holmes of Like how you could ask that question differently in illicit news. Like, you could frame it and say, you know, Mr. President, you say, we're more respected in the world. We haven't ended the Ukraine, Russia war. You haven't announced these trade deals yet with Japan or India. So if we're more respected in the world, when are we delivering on those things?

[Josh Holmes]

What's a timetable you think the American people can accept?

[Comfortably Smug]

You might actually make some news out of framing it that way. But coming at him with both barrels.

[Michael Duncan]

It'S sad because it's wild, because that is what Duncan said should be the most obvious thing ever. You don't need to go to journalism school to know that. That's just like how you ask a question.

[John Ashbrook]

Right?

[Josh Holmes]

Like, the problem is journalism school teaches you the Frost Nixon approach with a Republican president.

[John Ashbrook]

And if that's all you learn, then you're going to show the world the difference between a boxing match between two people and one guy hitting a speed bag. I mean, that's exactly what we watched Trump working out. And I have a feeling, just working out.

[Josh Holmes]

Literally just testing the jab.

[Comfortably Smug]

I love that visual.

[Josh Holmes]

You know, that is what it was, right? Incredible. Well, listen, we're getting a lot more of it, and I hope he's still. I hope he still grants these things. I mean, I understand it's probably not like his favorite day at the office when he has to deal with all this shit.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, I think he will, by the way. I think he's going to keep doing it. They're not learning the lesson. They're not. They're not. And he always, he takes every interview, and if it's stupid, he lets them know it's stupid. But this guy is never backed down from an interview. I watched the 30 for 30 on the USFL and the guy who did. I don't know if you guys have seen this. The guy who did the interview with him was very testy. And Trump, this was before he was president, but Trump, he was the same guy then as he is now.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

And he called the guy out. He said he disagreed, but he did the interview, you know.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. I mean, he always does the interview. It's either a chance for him to body somebody.

[John Ashbrook]

Right.

[Josh Holmes]

Or, you know, have a real conversation. And the fact that we're still the incentive structure of the journalistic community is in the entirety of the same place, the Democratic Party, which is, you've gotta be antagonistic or we're not rewarded for it. And what you get is no answers for the American people. Pretty soon we're gonna ask for a Trump interview, and I can assure you, you're gonna get more information out of that than you ever will out of any of these things. Just by virtue of having a cordial conversation, we can actually talk about things rather than be like, you're a crook. Explain yourself.

[Michael Duncan]

It's unbelievable. You know, it's really unbelievable.

[Josh Holmes]

The dumb fuckery involved in all of it is just unbelievable. All right, so we got a dude. We got. We have a game.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, we got a game.

[Comfortably Smug]

It is finally back, and I know many people have asked and, you know, we had some travel and stuff, and we had knack madness, so it slipped a little bit, but it's back. King of the Hill is here, and I'm the defending champion.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, geez. Who do you have?

[Comfortably Smug]

Rick Wilson.

[Josh Holmes]

Wow.

[Comfortably Smug]

And it was sort of perfectly timed with hack Madness because, I don't know.

[Josh Holmes]

If you recall, he didn't make the field.

[Comfortably Smug]

Well, he. He got like a 30 day ban from X. Yeah. For, you know, threatening the assassination of Donald Trump in some sort of way. It was sort of tongue in cheek.

[Josh Holmes]

Did he get back on?

[Comfortably Smug]

He's back on with a vengeance.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, so it was perfectly timed.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yes.

[Josh Holmes]

I thought he was gonna be permanently banned and we were gonna have to do something.

[John Ashbrook]

He'd be in jail.

[Comfortably Smug]

Well, yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

No, I know. Seriously, like what? I thought we had secret.

[Michael Duncan]

Forget the game. You think being in jail.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah. And then. So who is the challenger?

[Josh Holmes]

I'm going to take Smokin. Joe Walsh.

[Comfortably Smug]

Wow.

[Josh Holmes]

Who? You know, look, in the history of this game, there have been moments where people rise and people fall for a long time. Matt Dow was a big. You know, one of the real guys that we used to go to has not as great stuff like Jennifer Rubin. She's been terrific throughout, but this guy, in recent games over the last couple of months, he's really shown that he belongs in that upper echelon of competitors.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah. No, I agree. Well, let's go ringside.

[John Ashbrook]

Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, your attention please. It's time for King of the Hill. In the red corner, fighting from who knows where, Smokin Jo Walsh. And now, in the blue corner of Hiding, formally from the Daily Beast, currently from a freshly reactivated Twitter account, and current champion of the world, Rick Wilson.

[Josh Holmes]

Evil really dug.

[Comfortably Smug]

He gave me something extra. I appreciate that. Thank you.

[Josh Holmes]

That was good. There was a real guttural move on that.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah, it was nice.

[Josh Holmes]

I liked it. Okay.

[Comfortably Smug]

Okay, let me go ahead and pull up my takes here.

[Michael Duncan]

And for the new listeners, King of the Hill We've got mostly these never trump clowns. Everyone gets to drop two takes, best of three wins. Godspeed with you.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. I mean, this is. Yeah. The whole premise of the game, for those of you who are new, are these are never Trump clowns. They're people who made a living for decades being, quote unquote, conservative Republicans that in the era of Donald Trump have become progressive liberals. And it's not enough to just make fun of Democrats on a day to day basis. These people outdo them.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And that's why we chose this game, because you choose that subsect and you're gonna get some special.

[Comfortably Smug]

Some.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, that's the thing, is there's no zealot like a convert, right?

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah, that's right. That's exactly right. Smuggler. I think I just got to start with a nuke here. Spaghetti, can we put up Exhibit number 10, please? Rick Wilson has a black and white photo of some God hangings and he tweets happy Mussolini ending up where dictators belong day.

[Josh Holmes]

Wow.

[Michael Duncan]

He rolled back with this.

[Comfortably Smug]

He's right back at it. He's right back at it. It requires zero explanation. Good luck. My competitor.

[John Ashbrook]

What.

[Michael Duncan]

What is Cash Patel, if you're listening, bro, like, could I ask what.

[John Ashbrook]

What is that is wild? What is the date on that?

[Comfortably Smug]

I don't know. The 28th. April 28th.

[John Ashbrook]

Okay.

[Michael Duncan]

Holy moly.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah, and he, I mean, I just would like to also point out he got over a thousand RTs on.

[Michael Duncan]

That's the thing. It's like not only are they dropping very thinly veiled threats, it gets like wide distribution.

[Ajit Pai]

Yeah.

[Comfortably Smug]

Nearly 5,000 likes. So.

[Josh Holmes]

I have a choice to make. That is a difficult play.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah. You could, you could fight fire with fire, but then, you know, if you lose your best take in the first round, that's bad. You could throw the round.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, I'm not going to admit to anything. I'm just going to play what I'm going to do. This is exhibit number two. If. If you don't mind spaghetti. So he's quote tweeting Sam Stein, one of the annual competitors of hack madness, who's basically saying in his tweet that members of Congress haven't done anything significant to sort of oppose Donald Trump. Right.

[Comfortably Smug]

Okay.

[Josh Holmes]

When Republican members of Congress took their oath of office on January 3, they all raised their right hand, and instead of swearing to defend the Constitution, they all swore to defend Donald Trump. They abandoned their independence and instead joined the King's court. Now what I find so fascinating about this is like Joe Walsh was a Republican congressman who wrote in on a Tea Party wave, who was more than happy to just go along to get along while he was here. He was just like a average run of the mill Republican guy who got thrown out on a rail because he had all kinds of scandals and whatever, reinvented himself as a Democrat. And he's now concerned of the independence of Congress.

[Michael Duncan]

I mean, that's the wildest thing, right? Is that like, you can do anything, but if you drop a take in the media of like, hey, guys, Trump bad. It's like, okay, you're back in the fold. It's okay, scandals are forgiven. Tweet, Trump bad. And, you know, we'll give you some ink.

[John Ashbrook]

And especially coming from a former Republican congressman who got so dramatic in that final clause of that final sentence. However, it is not threatening to murder the sitting president, United States. And for that reason, smoker Rick Wilson wins.

[Josh Holmes]

It sure isn't.

[Comfortably Smug]

Let's go.

[Josh Holmes]

And there was a strategic choice that was.

[Comfortably Smug]

I noticed it. I didn't want to spike the football, but I noticed maybe you weren't giving it your best.

[Josh Holmes]

I just thought, if we're going with Mussolini, I got a. I gotta be strategic if I'm gonna get to two on this deal. But I'm confident I can with this next take. In Exhibit 1, Trump and the people who work for Trump are the world's biggest crybabies.

[Michael Duncan]

Incredible.

[Josh Holmes]

And with that, he links the social contract. It's on us, a new weekday show. Joe Wallace. Amazing.

[Comfortably Smug]

Oh, I love it.

[Josh Holmes]

Where you won't be surprise. And I've clicked on it and briefly listen. A lot of crybabies.

[Comfortably Smug]

They're crybabies. Now listen to me cry into a microphone for 45 minutes. Oh, that's great.

[John Ashbrook]

What have you got, old man?

[Comfortably Smug]

It's a good one. It's a good one. I, I think I'm gonna stay on theme with smoking Joe Walsh with exhibit number nine, spaghetti. Rick Wilson writes the Trump gimp suit strategy. And then this is my favorite sort of content on, on X. You know, this is just an absolute misuse of the Internet is Rick Wilson just goes full boomer. And he's trying to link to his sub stack. He puts a link that has a bunch of, you know, parameters, you know, UTM parameters in the link. And so it's so complicated. It doesn't unfurl and it's just a super long link that's open substack.com backslash pub. The Rick Wilson gimp suit, Trump. And then it's like R equals 1 and E2D.

[Michael Duncan]

The one thing I appreciate is that the and show welcome on share equals false. So I don't get a pop up at least.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

Absolute boomer move that doesn't uncle.

[Comfortably Smug]

And. And like the. The smokin Joe Walsh social contract, you know, thank you, Nicky Spaghetti, for actually going to that substack and reading what Rick Wilson had wrote, because I wanted a little thumbnail of what that is. And trust me, it is absolutely deranged lunacy.

[John Ashbrook]

I believe that. I do believe that. Spaghetti. Can we put that Walsh tweet back up the first one? Because as bad as Rick Wilson's misuse of the Internet may have been, and as stupid as his lead in to that may have been, and as deranged as his substack might be, the idea of Joe Walsh calling Republicans and Trump people crybabies when he links to 23 seconds of his own stupid show where he's crying into a microphone. I just don't think that. I just don't think that can be beaten in this round.

[Josh Holmes]

He's literally made a career change out of being the world's biggest crybaby.

[Michael Duncan]

That's the thing.

[Josh Holmes]

It is like, literally the definition of what his job is. Crybaby. He's like, we lost, so let me cry about it.

[John Ashbrook]

Right.

[Josh Holmes]

It's an incredible juxtaposition. I appreciate it.

[Michael Duncan]

The thing is with folks like that is I never know whether I'm cynical enough because it's like, are they stupid or are they such, like, corrupt scum that they're like, you know what I'm saying? Someone will give me money for it. Like, I'll just dance and do this bullshit.

[Josh Holmes]

I find myself in the same way in that I like. I don't.

[Michael Duncan]

I really hope no one's that horrible.

[Josh Holmes]

I constantly question whether my 2025 skepticism is up to speed. You know what I mean?

[Michael Duncan]

Makes me feel so bad. It's like, man, are these people that speak scummy.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. It's like, are they that dumb or do they know that there are people that dumb?

[Michael Duncan]

There's honest jobs in this country.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. Don't have to do this.

[Comfortably Smug]

It's a.

[Josh Holmes]

It's an everlasting question that we grapple with on the ruthless variety program every single day.

[John Ashbrook]

So the match stands at 1 to 1. 1 to 1. And we head into the final round.

[Comfortably Smug]

Okay.

[John Ashbrook]

With the champion first, Spaghetti.

[Comfortably Smug]

Can I get exhibit number seven, please? Okay, so this is Rick Wilson. There's a misspelling to start this week where he. I think he Wanted to say, oh, but he wrote on. Oh, so we're arresting judges now. Good to know. And this is, of course, about that judge who was letting the illegal immigrant escape justice. You know, the one who was accused of. I guess it was beating up a girlfriend or something like that.

[Michael Duncan]

What a bad faith.

[Comfortably Smug]

What I love about this, the bad faith, is the component here. Smug. Which I think is incredible. This is a guy who cheered on every indictment of Donald Trump, wanted his political opponent put in prison for the rest of his life. He goes on to X every day and prays for his assassination. And this is beyond the pale for you, Rick Wilson. This judge who was not doing justice. I love it.

[Michael Duncan]

I mean, character. That. That's the thing is they know that they're on the wrong side of the argument, so they have to bullshit.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

The characterization of it. It's insane.

[John Ashbrook]

Okay, now to the challenge.

[Josh Holmes]

I was gonna play something different, but I think our listeners deserve. On genre.

[Comfortably Smug]

I like on genre. It's a nice little.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. Tte, if you will.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Amongst competitors, where they stay in the same topic and whose is more deranged. So I'm going to stay on this. I was going to go in a different direction of which I think is very, very good. But I like this.

[Comfortably Smug]

Okay.

[Josh Holmes]

It is Exhibit five, please. Spaghetti. To everyone. Shouting, no one is above the law. Referring to that Milwaukee judge. We have a criminal in the White House.

[Michael Duncan]

Amazing.

[Josh Holmes]

A guy who has proven to be utterly lawless. And you're perfectly fine with that. So take your no one is above the law bullshit and shove it up your ass.

[Comfortably Smug]

Oh, it's pure cinema. That is pure cinema.

[John Ashbrook]

Pure cinema and a healthy flourish all throughout. And I think Joe Walsh wins round three. Congratulations.

[Comfortably Smug]

You know, I love it. I think I kind of have to agree.

[Josh Holmes]

It was a good.

[Comfortably Smug]

It was good.

[Josh Holmes]

I was gonna go in a very different direction.

[Michael Duncan]

It did such a great job of.

[Josh Holmes]

Elevating the judge debate.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

That I felt like the modern listener would think of that and be like, that's a very persuasive case. And was like, well, I gotta piggyback on that.

[Comfortably Smug]

Well, luckily you had the whole thing written out for you. I had to do the hard work.

[Josh Holmes]

I'm gonna surf the wave that the old man hath built.

[Comfortably Smug]

I love this. Gay. So.

[Josh Holmes]

It's so good. It's so good. All right. So we got to get to some more variety. You guys will absolutely love this. We have not seen it yet, but there's a big debate going on in the Internet. You may have seen it. About how many gorillas it would take to defeat a man. We've talked about this a lot. You don't fuck with monkeys. You just don't do it. These are, like, strong.

[Michael Duncan]

I think people know, like, monkeys. Like, your orangutans are Such. Are like 95 muscle. Yeah. Like 5% body.

[Comfortably Smug]

Such.

[Michael Duncan]

They're up there. They're shredded.

[Comfortably Smug]

They are.

[Michael Duncan]

And they've got six times the strength of an average. They look chimpanzees do.

[John Ashbrook]

I'm not sold small brains.

[Josh Holmes]

Okay, well, you're gonna. Apparently we've got clips. Can we play clip 5? And this is a simulation of a hundred men fighting one gorilla. Clip five? No. Oh, it's moving, though.

[Michael Duncan]

And they're playing Donkey Kong country music.

[Josh Holmes]

Dude. It's got.

[Michael Duncan]

It's got good, bro. What taste.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, do you see the overhand right on that thing?

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah, that's. That's an ender right there.

[Josh Holmes]

You catch one of those to the drill.

[John Ashbrook]

I don't believe this simulation. Everybody's just standing there watching. You got to use your numbers.

[Michael Duncan]

See, that's the thing is, like, the guys in the back, like, what are you doing?

[Josh Holmes]

So for those of you who are audio only listeners, this is a simulation of a gorilla fighting 100 men. And the men are all kind of running around, but this gorilla is systematically. Oh, my God, that guy flew, like, 50 yards.

[Michael Duncan]

Like, that's what I don't get. The simulation is trying to make it, like, a fair fight. Oh, did you? He just tossed that.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, I mean, the number of overhand rights that have gone into. I mean, it's clearly a right hand dominant gorilla. Oh, it took three out and one right.

[John Ashbrook]

And no, like, oh, the last guy.

[Josh Holmes]

Got it right to the mug. Oh, he's got more, though.

[John Ashbrook]

More. And none of them are, like, hitting the gorilla from behind.

[Josh Holmes]

Nobody's on the back of the gorilla.

[John Ashbrook]

I don't believe this.

[Michael Duncan]

So. So I think this is this simulation, first off, you know, like, it's been raging on the Internet. The hundred men versus one gorilla question. I think it is in that movie Sinners, there's a scene about this or whatever. These simulations don't work because it shows essentially the people rolling up, like, one, maybe two at a time.

[Josh Holmes]

When did you see him seek out the last guy, bro?

[Michael Duncan]

He even got some air time on that. He did a jump drop.

[Comfortably Smug]

But yeah, so that's. That's my problem with this is it's like a Jackie Chan movie where all of the bad guys line up one at a time to fight Jackie Chan.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Comfortably Smug]

And, like, that's not actually how this would happen. The men would work together.

[Josh Holmes]

Bad simulation.

[Comfortably Smug]

Bad simulation. We would form some sort of circle around. We would enclose this.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, let me. But let me ask you. I mean, just on the premise. Because we've got more here. On the premise of 100 Men and One Gorilla, you're convinced that with the right strategic, men would win without question.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, and, like, question. When I thought about this, like, 100, like, you know, if this is, like, in Gladiator or something where you're, like, all in the pen right before they let you into the coliseum or whatever, I'm trying to pep talk the guys of being like, listen, you don't have anything to worry about. If everyone rushes the gorilla at once, it's not even gonna be able to swing its hands. But it takes, like, all of us rushing at once, and then you go. So then I can, like, chill in the back, make sure. Because if you. If you let the gorilla start swinging, a lot of people start losing heart. You know, they see, like, some dude just got his head caved in. A lot of people aren't doing the rush. But it's like, guys, the plan is we have to rush. You gotta keep going in. He can't kill all of us as long as it's all of us, you know? But you gotta. You have to get people pumped up enough that they're, like, right off the bat. Because if the rush falls apart, that's when you see what happens.

[Josh Holmes]

A real team sport guy right there.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

That.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, you have to inspire, you know.

[Josh Holmes]

I think there's no question. First. First of all, 10 of 10 take.

[Michael Duncan]

That's how it is.

[Josh Holmes]

10 attempt take. But I think there's no question here. The first guy to encounter the gorilla is not coming home.

[John Ashbrook]

Maybe it depends on how he.

[Michael Duncan]

But you're looking for your knucklehead. You're scouting him out. You're like, you. You right here with me. We're gonna be the first in there. I'm gonna make sure smash ghosts. I know. You go for it.

[Josh Holmes]

I know.

[John Ashbrook]

It depends on how the guy approaches. Most gorillas like this have been trained for sign language by women at zoos. So if the guy walks up and starts doing sign language, it freezes the gorilla. It thinks it's you think. So all the other guys bum rush and take him out. Nobody gets hurt.

[Michael Duncan]

That's a wild gambit. That's wild to be like, I'm gambling on this. Dude has learned sign language.

[Comfortably Smug]

I have a pretty formulated Opinion on this? I have a pretty formulated opinion, but I want to watch the other simulation we have as well before I give my take.

[Josh Holmes]

Okay, let's watch the second one.

[Michael Duncan]

This is 10,000 gorillas versus 1 million men.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

Wow.

[Comfortably Smug]

Okay.

[Michael Duncan]

So I'll be honest. I've seen a bunch of these, you know, like, you name the situation. If it was like, could one team of Navy seals defeat.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

You know.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh my God. They're like. It's like a, like a Braveheart like scene where the 10,000 gorillas are running and the.

[Michael Duncan]

Oh, my God, bro.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah. The men are flying in the air.

[Josh Holmes]

Every man is 50ft in the air. Oh, this is a real bloodbath, folks. You wouldn't want to. I mean, this is tough. You can't show the kids. I can tell you that much.

[Michael Duncan]

And see, this is where the coaching is more important than ever because this is when you got to get the, you got to flank, you get the, get the block.

[Josh Holmes]

Hold on.

[Michael Duncan]

The minute.

[Josh Holmes]

There are some. There is some strategy here. They're circling. They're circling. Unclear of whether they can formulate a circle completely around because look at the.

[Comfortably Smug]

I mean, the men are still flying in the air.

[Josh Holmes]

They're losing a lot of people here. They're losing a lot of people.

[Michael Duncan]

I honestly think the odds are far worse when It's. When it's 10,000 versus a million than 100 to 1. I think it's far worse.

[Josh Holmes]

Is that right? Because it's easier to organize.

[Michael Duncan]

Because I think there's a lot more opportunity for people to lose heart, you know, like you got to convince the.

[Josh Holmes]

Dudes he the first four lines go down the knuckleheads.

[Michael Duncan]

You got to get your guys, your Italians, whatever, for the front line to go in there, make the sacrifice, but you're done.

[John Ashbrook]

You're dumb if you show up empty handed. Every guy should have a banana injected with antifreeze. You throw it at the gorilla, it's gonna eat it. It's gonna pass out.

[Comfortably Smug]

Okay, well, that feels like cheating. I don't think you're allowed. This is a hand in your head.

[Michael Duncan]

I would never do a 10,000 to a million. Like, I think a million people would lose 10,000 gorillas. I think 100 men could defeat one.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah. So I've got a strategy here. I'd love your guys thoughts on this.

[Josh Holmes]

Is it anything to do with Dian Fossey? As our colleague has discussed, the woman who used to do sign language to gorillas in Africa.

[Michael Duncan]

It doesn't trader to the human species.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

So What I would do, find the gorilla, probably from a zoo.

[Comfortably Smug]

I would do the circle, Right? The circle around at a sif. Safe distance from the gorilla.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Comfortably Smug]

With the hundred men. But the attack is going to come from behind. We're going to have some guy who's going to be goading the guerrilla. But what if they're getting his attention? What do you mean? How would they go back?

[Josh Holmes]

What if they go back to back. Oh, you mean the. Just one gorilla versus the oh.

[Comfortably Smug]

Versus the hunter.

[Josh Holmes]

I gotcha.

[Comfortably Smug]

Right. And then I'm going to find, you know, some guys, the sturdiest guys, the biggest guys, the offensive linemen. And you would think, like, I'm going to use them, one of them gets the ground to attack the gorilla, but I'm not. What I'm doing is I'm finding the lightest guys. And those guys are going to toss them in the air like a cheerleader.

[Josh Holmes]

And they're going to come from the.

[Comfortably Smug]

Top, down from behind the gorilla, from the elbow drop.

[Michael Duncan]

That's so risky.

[Comfortably Smug]

With elbow drops onto the head of this gorilla.

[Michael Duncan]

That's so wild and risky.

[Comfortably Smug]

No, you do that. In doing so, you're attacking the greatest strength of the gorilla, and that is the shoulder and head area.

[Josh Holmes]

And you got a thoughtful tip.

[Comfortably Smug]

I think if you go that way, you could incapacitate the gorilla before the fight even really started.

[Josh Holmes]

Wow. So you're launching humans into the air.

[Comfortably Smug]

Into the air with the people's elbow.

[Josh Holmes]

With a Jimmy Superfly Snuka off the top rope.

[Michael Duncan]

Was that Randy Savage's move or was that leg drop? No, leg drop was Hogan. I think Randy Savage was the elbow.

[John Ashbrook]

A lot of people used it because it worked.

[Josh Holmes]

Do not erase Jimmy Superfly Snuka, who invented the top rope, and that's the elbow drop.

[Michael Duncan]

I think that was before my time for the boomers. You might know that I'm a Randy Savage guy.

[Josh Holmes]

If you're a wrestling guy, you know what you're talking about here. But that, I mean, it's an interesting thing. My thought is that it doesn't take a whole lot of lateral movement for the gorilla to pop you back into the air like a Mike Trout fly ball.

[Michael Duncan]

That seems so risky. I really think you got to find the 10 Italians. You got to get the 10 of them. And the thing is that, like, Italians physically can't get concussions. Like, I've heard a lot about this.

[Josh Holmes]

Jesus Christ.

[Michael Duncan]

I'm serious. I've heard this. They're, like, impervious to concussions. So that's your front Line, dude, you get 10. You get me 10 good Italians, and I can beat any gorilla on this planet.

[John Ashbrook]

And they probably have a chain. They can use that chain.

[Josh Holmes]

The best part is that Smug has inserted himself in this situation only as a strategic advice to the 99.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

That are going to be fighting.

[Comfortably Smug]

He's like the foreman on the job site. Everybody else has to do the hard work, and he sits back.

[John Ashbrook]

That is so true.

[Josh Holmes]

If we ever do this spaghetti, you're gonna have to take a sick day because it feels like you're gonna be on the front line of that situation. All right, coming up, a really big interview. We love, love, love this guy. Ajit Pai, president, CEO of ctia. Well, I want to welcome to the program an old friend and one of the world's greatest villains. If you guys don't remember, this is a man who's allegedly killed millions.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah. Deep cut folks who remember net neutrality and how we were told by the media that, like, millions will die, there will be no tomorrow. This is the architect of that policy, which actually was a very good thing. Who'd have guessed the media was wrong on that?

[Josh Holmes]

Ajit Pai. How are you, sir?

[Ajit Pai]

Hey. Good. Great to be with you guys again. Yeah. First, I failed my mom by not going to medical school. Now I failed the country by not destroying the Internet. Add it to the list.

[Josh Holmes]

It's just a real. A real disappointment. So many still alive.

[John Ashbrook]

It's.

[Josh Holmes]

It's terrible. As you recall, former FCC chairman, and he's now got a great role as the president and CEO of ctia.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

You're like, back in the fight, pal.

[Ajit Pai]

Yeah. It couldn't come at a better time. It's a critical moment for the wireless industry, for the American economy when it comes to innovation. So I'm really lucky to have this position, and great to reconnect with you guys several years after the fact. One of the earlier guests, as I remember.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

One of the OGs.

[Josh Holmes]

Total OG. Also had to question your communications advice at that point that you came on the Rubles variety program that early. Like, we were a little untested.

[Ajit Pai]

I think my comms team was a little nervous. Like, who are these guys? Hey, don't worry. It's not. Nothing's going to. What's.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, you control the Internet. You could just cut us off.

[Ajit Pai]

Right, Exactly. That's true.

[Josh Holmes]

He's like, have no fear about any of that. I think you worked with my wife at some point, like, in the Senate.

[Ajit Pai]

Way back in the day. Senate Judiciary.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Ajit Pai]

She was in the fight Defending the Chief justice and Justice Alito. And yeah, obviously she did a great job. And. Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Ajit Pai]

Following in her footsteps.

[Josh Holmes]

You trusted her judgment maybe more than ours.

[Ajit Pai]

Yeah. No, I have to say, over time, I've come to appreciate you much more. Impressive thing you've created. This is unbelievable. I mean, look at this. Compared to when we did last time, it was incredible.

[Josh Holmes]

It was like USB mics into the side of a computer over zoom, if I recall. Were you. Did you ever even get the conference table treatment?

[Ajit Pai]

No, conference table. It's all zoom.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Amazing. That's incredible.

[Ajit Pai]

Certainly. No whiskey, no swag. No, no.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, this. We're really making it.

[Ajit Pai]

Congratulate. This is the American story. You guys need to be front and center.

[Josh Holmes]

This is what you envisioned with communications.

[Ajit Pai]

Oh, yeah. This is what I'm going to tell my kids. You know, if you really work hard, someday you too could grow up to be comfortably smug.

[Michael Duncan]

No, they got to be doctors. You never let go.

[Ajit Pai]

Focus on Ashbrook instead. Ask a question to the White House press secretary or.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Ajit Pai]

Run a successful firm. Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Smug is also disappointed his parents. Yeah. In many regards.

[Michael Duncan]

But you gotta carry it forward. The grandkids can be doctors.

[Ajit Pai]

I know it's been a long time. Have you become a Chiefs fan over the years? Are you still the Broncos? We get along so well.

[Michael Duncan]

We've got.

[Ajit Pai]

This is just the one little minor area of disagreement. You know, I side with America, he sides with isis.

[Comfortably Smug]

But it's all good.

[Josh Holmes]

It's totally fine.

[Ajit Pai]

We all make our choices in life.

[Michael Duncan]

It has been tougher to be a Broncos fan. I mean, the Chiefs have been doing terrific, especially since they've been on the show, but at least we didn't have to show up to the White house for our Mrs. Supporting an enemy team like Holmes did.

[Josh Holmes]

How did I catch a sp. It's just like a war between division rivals, and all of a sudden, I get shot. Okay, all right, all right, all right. So listen, for those of you who don't know Ajit's sort of record on things, this is the OG communication, FCC guy who sort of understood at a base level what President Trump was trying to accomplish in many fashions in the first four years. That's why you were the chairman and you effectuated much of that policy. You left, went on to big things. Now you've got this massive job at ctia. The issues remain. You got quite a successor in the second term that I know you're very close to. Just tell us where you think things sit. Because like, communications, as it Turns out pretty important to us.

[Michael Duncan]

Yep.

[Ajit Pai]

Oh, it's tremendous. I mean, if you think about where the technology is going, everything is moving wireless. And as I was telling you guys before the show, every time the show drops, I get a ping on my phone, I download it, and if I'm at the gym or on the go, I'm using a 5G connection to listen to it. And that's. I mean, multiply that by 330 million times the number of apps that are out there. You can see how much wireless interaction is important to us. And to me, at least, it builds on the legacy of the first Trump administration, where the President set a marker. We want America to lead in 5G. We want to beat China when it comes to innovation across the board, and we want to make sure that we're delivering for the American people. And that's exactly what he did. The Spectrum auctions we held at the FCC generated over $100 billion of revenue for the Treasury. It's incredible, isn't it?

[Michael Duncan]

That's a lot of money.

[Ajit Pai]

Most successful government program that actually generated money.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. Can I stop you on that just for a second? Just for those of you who haven't followed along closely or listened to some of our previous episodes. Spectrum increasingly important, and we're talking about 5G and how you access content. We've all been highly critical of the fact that we've had this prepackaged content for so long, and it's become so bad. Think about, you know, your MSNBCs, your CNNs, you're, you know, not being specific, but your cable package is just basically force fed to you. And what's changed with the Trump election is that people are no longer listening to that as a primary source of information. There's places like the Ruthless Variety Program, you got a whole host of conservative voices, independent voices, where you get different stuff, but you actually can't access it without more spectrum. Invisible airwaves that you know, at some point are owned federally that have to be auctioned off in some way to keep our infrastructure for people to get something other than what's prepackaged for them.

[Ajit Pai]

Absolutely. To me, this is the real abundance agenda. This is the difference between when I was a kid, when you got three broadcast channels, if you were lucky, in the daily newspaper, and maybe a wired telephone in one room of your house. Now, because of wireless, everybody is able to access whatever content they want on whatever device they want, and they're able to generate their own content, too. So it's had a real democratizing effect. And as you pointed out, the critical input in that is the airwaves. All of this stuff is traveling invisibly through the airwaves. And it's important for the government to stay ahead of the curve. And that's one of the great things about the President's agenda in the first term, is that he set a marker. We are not going to fall behind China. China's seen this as a major priority. They've made massive investments in 5G in addition to using wireless to help their military, which is a critical issue as well. And so we kept up. And that's, I think, what I'm really gratified to see in this term, that the president, Chairman Carr and others, Senator Cruz has been heroic. I know he was on the show recently. I'm just really seeing where the puck is going and making sure that America doesn't fall behind that curve. Because once you're behind, as you guys know, talent and capital and innovation is going to flow elsewhere. And we don't want that to happen in the United States, certainly not when it's in the hands of a foreign adversary like the Communist Chinese.

[John Ashbrook]

But you also mentioned that the first time President Trump did this, it raised $100 billion for the federal government. So if he does it again at a time when they're looking for money to raise to offset, you know, tax on tips and everything else that the President wants to do.

[Ajit Pai]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

You got to think that it's very attractive as an option.

[Ajit Pai]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, on its own, it's a worthwhile program to auction off some of these airwaves that are typically unused or underused. But especially when it comes to these policy trade offs that senators and reps and the President himself are going to have to make, this is one of the few things you can get on the table, is almost guaranteed to generate tens of billions, if not hundreds of billions of dollars. So I'm really encouraged by all the leadership that he and his administration and members of Congress on both sides of the aisle. This is not a partisan issue necessarily. So I'm really excited to see what could happen going forward. And I have to say, by the way, sorry to interrupt. Six years ago, he and I held an event in the Roosevelt Room where we announced the 5G fast plan and we put a marker and look how far we've gone since then. It's just unbelievable. And so we want to make sure we maintain that momentum. This, you know, I always say or said when I was in government, inertia is one of the most powerful forces in the public sector it's so easy not to do anything and taking action has risks. People are going to criticize you and things might not move quickly and blah, blah, blah, but well, there's always investment.

[Josh Holmes]

On the status quo. Yeah, right. I mean, who are just going to be dead set to try to stop you no matter what, because that's what they've invested in.

[Ajit Pai]

Right, exactly. And that's why I always try on the Yoda from the Empire Strikes Back. Remember when he's telling Luke always with you what cannot be done? There are always going to be naysayers and decent. But one of the great things that the President has shown is a willingness to cut through not just the red tape but just the backward risk averse thinking that is inhabited too often some of these policy debates.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, and also about the policy debate is I think one thing that really didn't get enough attention, especially when you were at the fcc, is the benefits that come to rule America. Like there's such a fundamental misunderstanding, for example, of what modern farming is like today. You've got these massive combines. Well, if they can get a signal and become more efficient and they can start running this to give greater margins to our farmers to make them more competitive globally. This is a huge story. Like you got none of. I feel like you should try and get some credit for what you pulled.

[Ajit Pai]

Hey, I mean look, if you guys want to focus every show on this, I'd be more than happy. Let's just discuss it. But no, this is a part of what I mean, everyone focused on net neutrality and hot button things like that. But as I traveled the country, and I'm pretty sure I was the first chair to travel to all 50 states and a couple territories, I made a point of visiting farms and ranches, potato farms in Idaho, farmers in rural Virginia. And these folks were relying on wireless to get the job done. And even beyond agriculture, think about telehealth and telemedicine, all these rural hospitals that are closing. My own parents, I heard about that.

[Josh Holmes]

When I was in the Senate.

[Ajit Pai]

Oh, it's huge. It's a huge issue. And even public safety. 90 some percent of calls to 911 are over wireless phones. And I've been on rural, in rural communities, tribal reservations where people don't have the ability to make a 911 call. So it can literally be the difference between life and death. And you know, that's one of the things I try to highlight is wireless is not just, you know, TikTok videos or whatever it is. It could be.

[Josh Holmes]

But I see you do a dancer too. Can we, can we go?

[Ajit Pai]

Unfortunately, I think Chairman Carr might have some broadcast efficiency rules to apply to that. Yeah, I think. Yeah, I don't know if that's good for the kids.

[Josh Holmes]

No, it's probably not. It's probably not. But I think, you know, I look at this in terms of just, you know, as long as we've been around and the difference in communications not just in how you consume news and information, but just calling people and whatnot. Oh my gosh. You know, and I started in this line of work, people still had the landline. I don't know anybody like generationally that has one. The only people I know that have a landline is because a security company that runs their security system demands it. Yeah, you know, other than that, it basically everyone has a wireless phone. It's important at some level for people to understand infrastructure can't keep up with that. Under like a 1996 view of the world, like you just, it has to grow. You have to accommodate the changed economy. And if we don't, somebody like China will. And the problem with that is not that like oh, China can, you know, talk more freely on their airwaves, it's that the rest of the world will adopt the technology that they're able to create with this new ability that we have self limited ourselves on 100%.

[Ajit Pai]

Right. And that's one of the things I think people often take for granted because we live in the day to day, we don't notice the changes over eras. But you know, 25 years ago you were happy if you could make a voice call on a StarTac. 20 years ago you were happy if you could send an email of your BlackBerry 10, 15 years ago you were happy if you could watch a video. Now you would just expect to be gaming or doing other streaming. And so one constant in the consumer experience is always expecting more bandwidth. And that requires again more spectrum, more wireless infrastructure. This broadband doesn't grow from trees. And so it's important for government and industry to stay ahead of the the puck, make the investments, make the tough choices to keep the consumer as opposed to the government in charge of the wireless experience. And you know, I use this story often. It seems like I'm dating myself here, but back in the 80s when we would call my relatives in India, they would have to reserve a 10 minute block of time at the post office.

[Comfortably Smug]

No way.

[Ajit Pai]

Oh yeah. And the time they would get would always correspond to 2, 3 in the morning in Kansas, where I was so, and we only had one phone in our house. So at 2 in the morning, my parents would wake me up and my sister. We would get a ten minute block of time. Each person got two and a half minutes. We would say our piece and literally in our language there's a word that literally I'm putting down the phone because we wouldn't have time to have a closing statement or whatever. You just like just end it. It would just end. Fast forward to today. This past summer, we had a 5G enabled video call with all my relatives around the world. India, Australia, United Kingdom, Germany, US and it was. We didn't even think anything of it.

[Michael Duncan]

You know, Cool.

[Ajit Pai]

It's just within one generation you're seeing that leapfrog in technology. So it's not. Voice calls are much more than just a voice call. It really enables connection. And to me, that's the best thing about this industry. It's always finding new ways to connect people and generate benefits for the American economy while we're doing it.

[Josh Holmes]

Indians have a real commitment to the discussion.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, good lord.

[Michael Duncan]

Especially if you don't become a doctor, you got to put in the extra work.

[Josh Holmes]

If my grandparents called me at 3am, I'm not sure I'm picking up.

[Ajit Pai]

Oh my.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah, I know.

[Michael Duncan]

And the echo was atrocious too.

[Ajit Pai]

Oh my gosh.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, I just remember. Remind me. Hello. Hello. Did you spin the rotator? Did you do it? That was about the extent of my conversations.

[Ajit Pai]

Life was rough up north.

[Josh Holmes]

It was, you know, hard scrabble up there. Hard scrabble? Well, I mean, dunks. One of the things that we've talked about a lot just in terms of content. And one of the reasons we started this show was because of the flaws that we saw in media and what was ultimately given to the American people as fact and truth and just increasingly over many years has just not been factual, not been truthful. But if it's monolithic in how it is presented to the American people, they don't have alternatives.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like the benefits for everybody else, but brass tacks, what's the benefit for us? Like? Like, like this spectrum sale, the competition, people being able to get it on their phones and stuff. That means they're getting more ruthless. Variety program, right?

[Ajit Pai]

Well, without a question. I mean, look, this is all about getting a multitude of distribution platforms out there. Now it's up to the people like you, the true American innovators.

[Josh Holmes]

That's right.

[Ajit Pai]

Putting content out there that people want. But no, seriously, it's your story. Is a great story. You are providing something that people want. And can you imagine 20, 30 years ago? Great. You can talk to a few people in the D.C. area, but you're never going to be able to reach millions of people. And now because of the airwaves that are out there that are available for anybody to use, you're able to reach people wherever they are, on whatever devices they want, when they want. You don't have to sit there. Some of us who are a little bit older, 8pm on Sundays, you have to tape the Love Boat, otherwise you're gonna listen. This is.

[Josh Holmes]

Remember the old vhs, the double. You had to hit the play and record at the same time. Yeah, yeah.

[Ajit Pai]

I feel like Smug has some, some no rewind fees, dude. Blockbuster. I was still accounts receivable somewhere on Blockbuster's virtual.

[Michael Duncan]

I was just watching this documentary about Blockbuster and it just really made me think that this must be the fastest movement in a generation.

[Josh Holmes]

100%.

[Michael Duncan]

Because I remember, like, oh, you go with the family on like a Friday night to Blockbuster and you pick a video. And now like, can you imagine trying telling someone under the age of. Of 16 that, like, you have to go. Listen, we have to go. And then we have to get the video. And then you come home and they're like, you mean I'm not instantly watching it on Instagram or TikTok? And if you scrolling to the next.

[Josh Holmes]

Remember, if you go too late on a Friday and all the new releases are gone. Yeah. And you gotta watch.

[Comfortably Smug]

I may seem like, you know, a little bit of a Luddite on this for saying it, but, like, I miss that experience a little bit. Like the Blockbuster thing on a Friday night. Like when you were in high school and you went there with your boys.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Comfortably Smug]

And like, you got two movies, like one you really wanted to watch and then some terrible horror movie that you know was gonna be like, on at three in the morning when you wake up and you're like, you know, you're like getting like a Blockbuster. And then you're getting like Signs of the Lambs or something like that. But like, that Friday night was great because that was the gossip mill, at least at our high school. It's like you found out who was dating on Friday night when, like a girl and a guy walked in that block.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, there's good news for you, Michael, because if, unless what Jeets talking about here comes to fruition, you'll be back into the blockbuster.

[Comfortably Smug]

You know what was the worst part? The worst part about Blockbuster? The worst part about Blockbuster I don't know if your dad's did this, but, like when you had those late fees and you forgot to return them, he'd put it there on the island, the kitchen island.

[Ajit Pai]

Oh, really?

[Comfortably Smug]

And he'd be like, we're going to talk about.

[John Ashbrook]

We ran up such high late fees that I distinctly remember my dad putting a letter on the refrigerator door and he wrote in his own hand, kids, I canceled the Blockbuster.

[Ajit Pai]

Is that right?

[John Ashbrook]

We never laughing.

[Josh Holmes]

The kids are all like, well, video updated. Is that amazing? Switching, switching it up. Remember, there was always the one local store that was off brand. Oh, yeah, they just had the trash ones. They probably like taped at a movie theater.

[Ajit Pai]

Different kind of innovation, just so listen.

[Josh Holmes]

It sounds to me like obviously there's a huge hurdle because what we're talking about in terms of Spectrum and Spectrum auctions is entirely either taken care of or not taken care of in the context of this tax reform discussion. And that is like on the horizon. And everybody's pushing hard. How do you feel about prospects? Where do you feel like we are?

[Ajit Pai]

I'm pretty excited. I think the key is, number one, to get the FCC's auction authority back. So it actually lapsed, believe it or not, despite the successful Trump administration program on Spectrum, that authority lapsed a couple of years ago. So that's a key part that I think a lot most people agree with. And then we also want to get a pipeline in there of Spectrum that we can auction during a time certain. Because I think the worst thing would be for us to just punt the ball to somebody else and say, oh, you guys run with it. And so we're hopeful that Congress can get that across the finish line. Auction authority, plus some pipeline of Spectrum. And then, hey, Chairman Carr, with the help of Senator Cruz and of course the President will be off to the races.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, it's amazing. So let's get to just like a global look. Say this gets done, right? Say tax reform gets done, say we're doing deals, say Spectrum auctions happen. Companies that are operating all this wirelessly are able to invest and create more. Like, what do you think the future, where do you think it goes? Because I, I ask this because every single time where I feel like I've got a handle on it, like two years later, I'm like, wow, we're doing that now. You know, like, Netflix used to send us the CD in the mail. And, you know, less than 10 years later, like, I tell people about that and they're like, what?

[Ajit Pai]

I think I still have one or two. I Gotta meet with some of those execs, get them to give me a pass. So I'm talking about late fees, but. But no, I think so. To me at least. As I mentioned, the future is going wireless. But I think it's also going to incorporate AI and all kinds of different ways. I don't know if you guys use it now, but I use AI wirelessly all the time. It's incredible. So I was out west hiking with my kids recently in Utah and they were asking, hey, you know, we need to find, we want to find this kind of restaurant, we want to eat. And so I just plugged it into to Grok and a couple other engines and boom, we're off to the races. Or they wanted to stay in a place where they could see the Milky Way. And so it's like, hey, find me, you know, places in southern Utah that are dark sky, come on. It was unbelievable. Really.

[Michael Duncan]

It's that good.

[Ajit Pai]

It's that good. And so there's one we're using to plan a trip this year and I plugged in, I kid you not, I put in, show me all the options for a trip to this place for 7 days with a 13 year old and 11 year old who like these kinds of activities. They don't want to stay in this kind of place. They do want to stay in that kind of place. And it gave me a full itinerary.

[Michael Duncan]

It is, it is, it's mind blowing.

[Ajit Pai]

It's unbelievable. So to me at least wireless and AI are kind of the two pillars. Innovation going forward, totally connected. Oh, it's huge. It's going to be tremendous.

[Comfortably Smug]

But to your whole point, like it requires bandwidth, it requires energy, requires all of these things. And like people don't think of that side of it.

[Josh Holmes]

Like, no, like magic does.

[Comfortably Smug]

It's magic thing. Like I just, I type into the box and the thing gets done and it's like, no, we need to make strong strategic investments to be ready for how big this is going to be in five years. To your whole point of like there were CDs from Netflix and then the whole world changed. It's going to change with AI.

[Ajit Pai]

Oh, and the Chinese see it that way. They see all of these technologies to 5, 5G AI, cloud under. I mean they have such a coherent worldview. It's not a worldview I share, obviously, that's why I want to beat them. But that's, I think where the puck is going. You need to think in terms of where the consumer is going to be in a decade where the country is going to need to be in a decade. And to me, we have to support those technologies and particular 5G and spectrum.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, that's amazing. Well, listen, I hope nothing but the best, actually the worst for your Kansas City.

[Ajit Pai]

You're still bitter over the super bowl?

[Josh Holmes]

Super Bowl 4. Come on.

[Terry Moran]

Super Bowl 4.

[Josh Holmes]

I'm still holding the grudge. Pre birth. Pre birth. Hank Strong.

[Comfortably Smug]

Oh, my God.

[Ajit Pai]

Yeah, right, Exactly. Hank Stroud.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, man. Well, listen, it's so nice to have you in here and, and I mean this genuinely when we.

[John Ashbrook]

When.

[Josh Holmes]

When we talk about innovation and where things are headed. You're one of the very few that is A relatable, but B has clear vision path on how you go about doing it. I mean, I think so many, not just in, like, the conservative side, but just the industry in general. It's sort of like industry speak and it kind of flies over everyone's head. You've always had an ability to digest this stuff and interpret it in a way that we just had a conversation about it. Everybody who's holding a cell phone listening to this understands, which I greatly appreciate. Oh, thanks so much for doing it well.

[Ajit Pai]

And likewise, congrats to you. I mean, look, as I've gotten older, I've come to appreciate a lot. People who create something out of nothing. It's not easy. You guys know that, right? I mean, you're not, you know, it might have happened accidentally or in a way you didn't expect, but, I mean, that's the American story. And so to me, at least, it's just great to see you guys thriving.

[Michael Duncan]

So kind. That is such a kind thing to say.

[Ajit Pai]

I was on the show so long ago, you were calling it the program back then. Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

So that's an og.

[Ajit Pai]

Just to see how far you've come.

[Josh Holmes]

It's an og.

[Ajit Pai]

Oh, man, Absolutely. Thanks for having me on.

[Josh Holmes]

Where can everybody keep up with your work?

[Ajit Pai]

So, assuming the Internet still exists, I haven't checked over the last 20 minutes, but aptitude Pie on X, you can find me on LinkedIn. You can just Google me and figure out all the stuff I'm up to. Someone told me today, oh, I read your Wikipedia page. I immediately got a shiver. You're like, oh, God, yeah, I can't imagine what's on there.

[Josh Holmes]

But you're a mass murderer.

[Ajit Pai]

Yeah, yeah. But no, I pride myself on being accessible, including to, you know, folks out there who are never going to have a chance to visit dc. So, yeah, yeah, just hit me up.

[Josh Holmes]

One of the really good guys in this line. Of work. Ajib Pai, President, CEO of ctia. Thanks for joining us.

[Michael Duncan]

Thanks.

[Ajit Pai]

And I promise next time to dress up. I had no idea this is the new dress code.

[Josh Holmes]

Listen. No, it's not. They made us have a photo shoot today.

[Ajit Pai]

Well, you can't hide this much beauty in one. Well, you got to put it on paper.

[Josh Holmes]

We had to classify it up a little bit. We should have given you a heads up.

[Ajit Pai]

All good. All good. Thanks for having me on, guys.

[John Ashbrook]

Thank you so much, man. He is such a good dude and so smart, you know, they're very lucky to have him.

[Josh Holmes]

We just does such a nice job of it. It is. I remember when I was in the Senate, every time this set of issues, like spectrum came up, it was like I was like, I don't even know what the hell this is. You know, like, how does this. I understand there's airwaves that need to be worked through or whatever, and they're auctioning, but who owns these things and how does it like? It felt like everybody was selling air at some level. And then you talk to Ajit for like, two minutes, and he's like, well, if you want to farm and if you're interested in content other than ABC News and Terry Moran giving the Frost Nixon treatment, pretty important that they do this kind of stuff, you know, oh, by the way, it pays for your tax cuts.

[Michael Duncan]

That's the thing is, like, it does so much for the country. There's so many benefits, and it gets a little attention.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, just a great guy. We're going to have him on a lot because he explains all of this. And it feels like in this administration, they're doing more to try to correct the misuse of American airwaves over the last 10 years than I ever remember. And I didn't even know that they could do this stuff. But the Trump administration is really doing good work, and he does a better job of interpreting what it all means than anybody else out there. So thanks to Ajit for all that. Remember our question of the day, which was, how can Trump get back to 50%? A lot of ideas there, but you heard ours. You gotta like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll read all of them and get back to you next Tuesday with that. Fellows, I think we've done it.

[Michael Duncan]

I think so. Absolute best banger of an episode. Gentlemen, thank you so much. A by. Thank you so much to the minions. Remember, if you have not yet, go to to the YouTube channel. Hit that. Subscribe. It's more fun in video. So until Next time minions. Keep the faith, hold the line and own the Libs. We'll see you Tuesday. Stay ruthless.

[Ajit Pai]

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[John Ashbrook]

You can message a vet at any.

[Ajit Pai]

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[John Ashbrook]

Many ailments and shipping is always free.

[Ajit Pai]

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[John Ashbrook]

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[Josh Holmes]

Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.