Show Announcer (2:05)

Ladies and gentlemen, your attention please.

Michael Duncan (2:09)

Keep the fate, hold the line and own the lids.

Show Announcer (2:12)

It's time for our main event.

Josh Holmes (2:17)

Good Thursday to you. Welcome back to the Ruthless Variety Program. Are we in an economic boom? We'll find out. We got the guy in charge of it all in the Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant. Welcome back to the Ruthless Variety Program. I'm Josh Holmes along with comfortably smug Michael Duncan and John Ashbrook. Left to right, across your radio dial. As always, a very good episode in front of us today. Smugglesworth and I, we had the opportunity to go be a part of the newsmakers. That's typically a role reserved for our White House correspondent.

John Ashbrook (2:49)

Yeah, our audio only listeners are really missing out. Both Holmes and Smug are all suited up here.

Josh Holmes (2:55)

You don't see it every day.

John Ashbrook (2:56)

You don't see it every day.

Josh Holmes (2:57)

No, it's like a vestige of time gone by.

John Ashbrook (2:59)

Did you guys coordinate on the ties? You're sort of doing like an inverse thing.

Josh Holmes (3:03)

I think he looks very handsome. I can assume that we look similar.

Michael Duncan (3:07)

Sharp, sharp, sharply dressed. And honestly, this was a tremendous event. It was for the Treasury Department and President Trump to announce the Trump accounts, which are a huge deal.

Josh Holmes (3:16)

Yeah. So it's a big event in Washington D.C. where the whole bunch of folks from across industries, captains of industry, totally. Along with everyday people. Nicki Minaj was there.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (3:29)

Hell yeah.

Josh Holmes (3:29)

Had a chance to say hello.

Show Announcer (3:30)

Michael Dell.

Josh Holmes (3:31)

Michael Dell, who's of course one of.

Michael Duncan (3:33)

The funders contributing $6.25 billion to American kids.

Josh Holmes (3:38)

It's a big, big check to write. Wouldn't you love the opportunity?

Show Announcer (3:42)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (3:43)

You're like looking at you, who I make this out to, Right. Six, five. No problem. We can take that. We'll figure that out. We'll let the accountants deal with it. I'll just stroke the check. But all of that President Trump was there, made some kind remarks and sort of talked a little bit about the origins of the Trump accounts. It's important to you all because look, this is a thing that's happening. You wouldn't notice by the media, by the way. They're talking about like whatever leftist psychopath has decided to put themselves in harm's way in some protest somewhere. They're not talking about the fact that what happened with the big beauty was that this Trump account, which affords every child that it's born from January 1, 2025 through the duration of the Trump term, thousand bucks in an account that can grow over time. And the interesting part is we talked about this with Besant and I can't wait for you to hear this interview, by the way. Fantastic. Incredible was it's in part just the financial health and well being of America's families, but it's also a good lesson to an awful lot of young Americans who unfortunately, through a product of our education system, doesn't teach financial literacy particularly well, particularly in underprivileged areas where it sets a baseline which you can compare socialism to. Like this is what a capitalism society can do and you now have an account and a vested interest in it. Measure that up against the promises that Mamdani makes you and we'll see. You know, by the time our bet is that by the time you're 15, 16 years old, you're gonna be like, the hell are these people talking about? I have real money here. Anyway, he gets into that and a whole bunch more. We talk. He loves to fight.

Michael Duncan (5:35)

Truly.

Josh Holmes (5:36)

Yeah, he loves to fight.

Show Announcer (5:38)

That's what people say.

Josh Holmes (5:39)

And we get into that. I don't think anybody else has asked him any of these questions because, you know, there's been a lot of rumors about him knocking out Cabinet secretaries and things like that. In addition to just like completely crushing Gavin Newsom and Davos. We talk about all of that. I think unique stuff you'll only hear here. When we caught up with Besant there, we also happened to notice that the President of the United States was recognizing several members of the crowd. Saw Senator Ted Cruz, and for the first time in my awareness, publicly, he said, well, he should be a Supreme Court justice. So of course, a little bit newsworthy in that you've got a couple of justices that are sort of in that window where you would look to a potential retirement. Who knows? God bless him. I love every one of them. I hope they stay there forever. But you don't want a Ruth Bader Ginsburg situation in your hands. And so, you know, perhaps there's going to be changes afoot. For Trump to say Ted Cruz ought to be a Supreme Court justice, I thought was particularly newsworthy. So smug. And I decided we'll just rattle on down and we'll get the man's response to all of that. You got that in this episode, too, along with some variety. Because it's Thursday, we gotta play a game.

Michael Duncan (6:49)

It's action packed, top to bottom.

Josh Holmes (6:51)

Yeah. So anyway, great, great show in front of us. You are really gonna love these interviews. I will say we are in Philly tonight, first live show we've done in a long time. So for those of you who were lucky enough to get tickets, I think this sold out in like a blink of an eye. Apologies that the venue can only hold.

Show Announcer (7:11)

Thousands, not millions, like we were promised.

Josh Holmes (7:17)

So we're sorry about that. But if you have tickets, please arrive early. Cause it's gonna be a packed house. Do at 6 o', clock, downtown Philadelphia. If you got your ticket, you already know where it's at. I can't say it on air, but it is what it is. And the show in its entirety will be airing for our online audience on Funtime Friday. Because it's a fun time.

Michael Duncan (7:38)

It's gonna be great.

Josh Holmes (7:39)

If you've ever seen a live Ruthless show, like you think we're edgy, put us in front of people. Gets a lot more edgy. So anyway, we've got that going whole lot more. But I want to get right to the Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant. Well, we're here with Treasury Secretary Scott Bessen. Thank you so much for having us here on this incredible kickoff To Trump accounts.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (8:06)

It's a great day. President just gave a great speech, had some great Americans up on stage with him.

Josh Holmes (8:12)

Lot of energy in the room. Incredible. Cause we're talking about fundamentally changing the future of young people born in a very specific period of time, where they are the lucky ones.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (8:22)

Well, born in a specific period of time. The ones who are born during President Trump's term. Are you going to get the $1,000 seed investments, but children up to 18 parents can open accounts for them. They can contribute to them. Parents can contribute, relatives, employers. We got a lot of great philanthropists like Michael and Susan Dell. 6.25 billion. And then we had Ray Dalio previously announced he's going to adopt children or fund children in the state of Connecticut who aren't eligible. Brad Gerstner today said they are all children in the state of Indiana.

Josh Holmes (9:02)

I heard that the president pushed him to sort of expand the map a little.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (9:06)

We were in Iowa yesterday.

Michael Duncan (9:08)

Got it.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (9:08)

So we were in Iowa yesterday. And I think we're going to get some interesting news on Oklahoma. One of our great philanthropists today.

Josh Holmes (9:16)

Fantastic.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (9:17)

That's great.

Michael Duncan (9:18)

Well, such a wonderful cause. But when we were first speaking with your staff about setting up this interview, I made a deal with them. I said I'd be happy to share a big announcement if you can make it happen. They've made it happen. And my wife and I are expecting our first child in May. You will have a Trump account. Thank you, President Trump. And thank you, Secretary Besant, for setting this up. It's incredible.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (9:38)

And look, the 38% of American families have no exposure to the equity market. So again, no wonder a lot of the younger people are down on capitalism, don't believe in markets. And I just think we're going to couple this with a huge amount of financial aid companies that contribute. We think 20 states are going to top these accounts up. And I think they're all going to mandate financial literacy. So, I mean, this is going to be an online or real time financial literacy via boom.

Josh Holmes (10:13)

Yeah.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (10:14)

And the other thing, I grew up in a small town in South Carolina. I just knew something bad had happened on Wall Street. 1929. Right. And this is really the, I say it's the biggest merger in history because it's Wall street and Main Street. They're together now. I talked about parallel prospects, prosperity, but now this is a merger.

Michael Duncan (10:34)

Yeah, that's the thing is, for so long, there's been a talking point of like, well, the stock market isn't the economy. Well, now this is a way to get the entire generation invested in American prosperity to take part in all of that.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (10:46)

Exactly. And understand the power of compounding. To look at what. At our great companies, to think about markets. And like, I, I personally do not like state lotteries. I think it's taxation without representation. You look the lowest income states have the highest participation. And now I think this is a way. Instead of paying 10, $20 a week for a lottery ticket, which you have no chance of winning, put this away. Put this away for your child. And whether it's 18 years or 65 years, I mean, think about the numbers when people turn 64. This is an incredible supplement to Social Security. Social Security and a baseline, the defined benefits, monthly payments. And then you have this big nest egg waiting, too.

Michael Duncan (11:40)

Well, that's the thing is. So, like, I crunched the numbers on this. If you have the thousand that's contributed from the government into the child's account, and then the parents or their employers, everyone contributes the max amount and you contribute nothing else, that's hitting $890,000. If it compounds at 8% over 65 years, I mean, it could be a retirement account.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (12:00)

No, no, it's great. It's great. So you got the foundational Social Security, and then, like, you got the cake. Then this is the icing.

Josh Holmes (12:08)

Yeah, One of the things. So we have a lot of young parents, people sort of starting families that listen to our show. And financial literacy has always been a big concern to people.

Michael Duncan (12:18)

Right.

Josh Holmes (12:19)

We got out of college, got our first job. The last thing you were doing, at least I was doing, was trying to figure out, you know, all right, how do I put my money? Where are you basically trying to make ends meet. What I love about you and the president saying that you're like, the biggest supporter of this is in that context of financial literacy. Young people aren't getting enough of that. And you have an investment, you can see the power of compounding. It provides a lesson in a way that actually nothing else in the life right now can do.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (12:46)

And it also, you realize that the American enterprise business system is working for you. All of a sudden, you know, it's just not okay. Nvidia is the first $4 trillion company.

Josh Holmes (13:00)

And somebody else's money.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (13:01)

Somebody else's money. You wrote it from 2 trillion to 4 trillion. Okay, what's going to be the next. The company is. There was one woman up on stage, who said that her son had bought all these Pokemon cards and invested in those. Well, they may not hit. They may not hit. My son does that, too. But again, to have a piece of the action, a share of the pie, but just to continually think about it like, this is working for me. My money's making money. The system does work. And the better the system works. And I actually think it's also going to be an immediate referendum on bad economic policy.

Josh Holmes (13:49)

Oh, thank you.

Show Announcer (13:50)

Thank God.

Josh Holmes (13:51)

We need some of that.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (13:52)

So if somehow we were to get an administration that really took the economy off the cliff. Too much regulation, there's too much. Too high taxes, too much wealth.

Josh Holmes (14:06)

The Mom Donnie view of the world.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (14:08)

Yes.

Josh Holmes (14:09)

Essentially.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (14:11)

And that all of a sudden, everyone's going to be looking at their phones saying, I'm not for this. Right, right. I didn't sign up for this.

Josh Holmes (14:19)

I have a baseline that shows me the other way.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (14:21)

Throw the bum out.

Michael Duncan (14:22)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (14:23)

It's well done. So I've got to ask you, you were in Davos last week. Was it on the plane ride over that you decided to steal Gavin Newsom soul, or is that just something that was extemporaneous?

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (14:35)

Look, I'm a peaceful guy. I don't fire unless fired upon. The governor showed up at talk I was giving. I don't think he understood very much of it. And I used to teach. There's always a kid in the class who doesn't understand what's going on, and he gets frustrated and then lashes out. So, like, he made some rude remark about my. My talk, and, you know, once he started, I was going to finish. And I also think that it's one thing he's a Californian. I think he's probably never lived outside of California. To go on the international stage is a big deal. And he had to go to Davos to see all the CEOs he chased out of California. Right. But I actually think he was cracking up a little because he was just saying strange things. Like, the president is a Tyrannosaurus rex.

Michael Duncan (15:32)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (15:33)

It didn't make any sense.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (15:34)

Didn't make any sense. And Tyrannosaurus rex was the apex predator back then. Like, it's kind of a compliment.

Josh Holmes (15:42)

And his dino's wrong.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (15:44)

And then he said he brought all these knee pads with him. You're like, huh, I don't know.

Michael Duncan (15:51)

Not giving the right imagery.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (15:52)

I don't know. Mayor of San Francisco, who knows?

Josh Holmes (15:56)

Well, you certainly let him have it. My favorite part was it was like a Billy Madison in that first one. And then the next morning they gave you another opportunity because he piped up, you had to let him have it again. And it was just, it was fantastic because here we have you and a Treasury Secretary who's up to his eyeballs and all kinds of stuff working for the American people. Lord knows the President has you involved in everything at this point. And you get this governor who basically thinks he's going to get by on a big smile and a nice head of hair and you even took the hair out.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (16:26)

Yeah, well. And are those even real?

John Ashbrook (16:29)

Yeah.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (16:29)

But you know what fascinates me about all these strong Democratic candidates? Every state where these Democratic governors come from is losing population, led by California. But let's look at Governor Pritzker in Illinois, let's look at Governor Shapiro in Pennsylvania. Like, well, Tim Waltz is a whole different category. But Minnesota, losing population. Michigan losing population numbers just came out today. My home state of South Carolina, great governor Henry McMaster. We have the highest percent of inbound and you know why? Low taxes, low cost of living, light touch regulation and plenty of jobs. Because that's where all the factories want to build.

American Petroleum Institute Representative (17:18)

Energy is all around us. It's how we move, how we build and how we make every day a little easier. We're all around America's oil and natural gas, supporting 11 million good paying American jobs across the country and powering our way of life. But energy demand is growing and fast. That's why we need to overhaul our broken permitting process to unleash America's abundant natural resources, strengthen national security and create a future where American energy leads the world. What America builds today will help secure a more affordable, more reliable future. With enough energy to go around for generations to come, our country can't wait. We must pass permitting reform now to help secure American energy dominance. Because when America builds, America wins. America's oil and natural gas paid for by the American Petroleum Institute.

Josh Holmes (18:21)

Look, economy writ large. President's talked about it a lot. There was a lot done in 2025 to set the infrastructure for growth. Big beautiful bill, all the stuff you were doing at treasury and regulatory point all across the agencies. We're now in a point where you're seeing the economy beginning to grip. Growth is going up. What's your prognosis here over the next year?

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (18:43)

I couldn't be more bullish on strong non inflationary growth. So that's the most important part. I think we're going to see the inflation numbers dropping coming back towards the Fed's 2% target. That if you believe the Atlanta Fed GDP now we're at 5.4% growth. And the amazing thing then we had 4.4%, the last in the third quarter of last year. The amazing thing about that was it was really closer to 4, 7 or 4, 8. But we contracted the government.

Michael Duncan (19:16)

Yeah.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (19:16)

So the private sector was for seven or four, eight and I think 280,000 government employees gone. We shrank the budget, the budget deficit. So everyone said that the deficit was going to blow out, be above 2 trillion. Just the opposite. The deficit to GDP, which is the important number, has really dropped. We inherited. So for calendar year 2024, it was 6.9%, the highest ever when we weren't in a recession, weren't at war. 2025, 5.4%. And my goal, I talked about getting it down toward 3% by the time the President leaves.

Josh Holmes (20:00)

Yeah, I mean, look, it's well said. It is funny, everybody predicting basically a loss or a contraction of government jobs, which is wholly unsustainable, sustainable. For that to be your growth engine, you basically transfer that in the private sector. And like all the doom and gloom predictions.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (20:15)

Well, it was like the President said in Iowa yesterday, he said I could create a million or 2 million jobs. I just had the government hire people.

Fields of Freedom Alliance Representative (20:23)

Exactly.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (20:24)

But we've done the opposite. We have taken down the government jobs, made the government right. Sizing the government from the Biden blowout. And the private sector is going to pick up these people. So.

Josh Holmes (20:35)

Which is sort of the only way to keep things like Social Security, Medicare, Medicare, all these things sustainable.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (20:40)

Well, it's also the only way to keep up living standards because part of this affordability crisis is government jobs only are indexed to inflation. So you can never get a real wage increase. But private sector jobs, you get productivity, you get competition. And I think we're going to see they have very strong private sector job growth. We saw 12, 14% CapEx last year and CapEx job growth, consumer spending.

Josh Holmes (21:15)

Yeah.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (21:15)

1, 2, 3.

Josh Holmes (21:16)

All headed in the right direction. So look, you seem to be enjoying yourself as Treasury Secretary.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (21:23)

It's incredible working for the President. It's an honor to serve the American people. And the President spent a lot of time with him yesterday out in Iowa. He gave a great, great speech. I had so many, my phone was blowing up because everyone said he's got like the exact formula now. It's the perfect combination of weave and economics. And the real, he says there are 80, 20 issues. But like in private will tell you they're 97 to 3. The no men and women, sports securing the border. So I got window down here. I just thought like the speech yesterday really resonated with everything.

Michael Duncan (22:09)

I was like, I'm hoping he's on the road a ton for the midterm because we need to keep this growth going. The way that the US economy has rebounded, like you mentioned, like Capex is up, companies in America are happy with the way things are going.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (22:22)

Yep. So. So we saw John, John Deere yesterday. They had two new plants in the U.S. one in Indiana, one in North Carolina.

Josh Holmes (22:31)

Sort of unthinkable 10 years ago.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (22:34)

Unthinkable. And the CEO said, Mr. President, because of the tariff. It's because of the tariff. I was out in many in Minnesota, greater Minneapolis, at Winnebago.

Josh Holmes (22:45)

Yeah. I saw you stop by Maynard's. That's an old haunt. I grew up about six blocks from there.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (22:49)

Okay. Oh yeah, I love Maynard. They're all the time.

Josh Holmes (22:52)

You had a warm reception.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (22:54)

Well, the other thing too is when some unhinged, probably paid by the CCP lunatic starts screaming at me in a restaurant in D.C. it's on the front page. Yeah, Right. I'm walking out of Maynard's, people start.

Michael Duncan (23:06)

Clapping, there's a standing ovation.

Josh Holmes (23:08)

Yeah.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (23:08)

Then they say usa. Then Trump. Trump, Trump.

Michael Duncan (23:10)

Yeah.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (23:11)

Nada. Right? Nada.

Show Announcer (23:13)

Yeah.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (23:13)

No, no, of course not.

Show Announcer (23:14)

Right.

Josh Holmes (23:14)

They want everybody to believe that everybody's a left wing lunatic.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (23:16)

Yeah. And look in Minnesota, President Trump won 78 out of 87 counties. It's just like that corruption in Hennepin and Ramsey County. I say it's 10,000 lakes and one big cesspool.

Michael Duncan (23:30)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (23:30)

That's 100%. That's 100%.

Michael Duncan (23:32)

100% from the work that you've done out there in Minnesota. Have you been shocked by the level of fraud and the amount of dollars stolen from the U.S. taxpayers?

Josh Holmes (23:40)

Yeah.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (23:41)

One local journalist who I was talking to had a great saying. He said benefits have been turned into business. There are people who it is their business. They teach people how to form these NGOs, these LLCs and they just all skim and it's like a self licking.

Josh Holmes (24:00)

Ice cream cone too because it then just goes right back into the political ecosystem and it perpetuates itself.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (24:07)

And I think that the, the leadership out there doesn't hate the deaths are terrible, but I think they don't hate the chaos because the chaos is, takes them off the hook, is shielding them. They're not off the hook.

Josh Holmes (24:21)

Right.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (24:22)

They are not off the hook.

Josh Holmes (24:23)

Good. I'm glad to hear that. A lot of people are Glad to hear that. Because that is obviously to us, their intention by trying to shift the chaos away from culpability on the reason we're there in the first place.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (24:34)

And we're going to take it to every state. My friend Chadwick Moore had a great piece in the New York Post about two weeks ago about a senior facility in Chinatown. And it's mostly seniors that come in for lunch and they're charging the city $87, but they're ordering from the Chinese restaurant next door where it's six or seven.

Michael Duncan (24:56)

Incredible.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (24:58)

Amazing how that happens. Even when I was in the investment business, we would love that cash flow. You could never do an arbitrage like that. The 10X with an Uber Eats order.

Michael Duncan (25:11)

Amazing.

Josh Holmes (25:13)

So one of the great frustrations of people like you who are just incredibly successful in their private lives that get into government is that change is super hard. We're seeing that now with President Trump taking on all these entrenched interests. And there's a reason why people haven't changed immigration policies and NGOs and all of this kind of stuff that is just plagued the American government. You've walked into this thing, though, and you've been busting some heads. It feels like you almost enjoy. The harder the task is to get involved in just sort of like you might be the only cabinet secretary to allegedly have recorded a couple knockouts while he's in his term.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (25:51)

Treasury Secretary Alexander Hamilton.

Josh Holmes (25:53)

That's true. There is some.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (25:55)

There's some precedent.

Michael Duncan (25:56)

Combative. Look, apparently you win your fights.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (25:59)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But we've only got four years to fix the system. Urgency. There's urgency. A lot of this is systemic. A lot of it was taken for granted. We can't have business as usual. And look, there are some fine Democrats who work in these institutions. And like, you're not in trouble working there because you're a Democrat. You're in trouble because you've abused your position. Or the system is just corrupt.

Josh Holmes (26:32)

Yeah.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (26:32)

Like the system is just corrupt. We've discovered this whole system of set asides that it was meant to help minority businesses. Well, there's a group that's forming these.

Josh Holmes (26:45)

Businesses just to take advantage of.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (26:47)

Yeah. Up in Alaska. And. And it's just a post. Series of post office boxes that are claiming to be indigenous people. And you know, the biggest companies in America are running through no bid contracts through there. Like you see this. And like this is where when Elon and I were talking one time and I said, you know, Elon, you. They're coming after you. Because you're moving people's cheese. And he said, you know, Scott, it's the American people's cheese. And he's right.

Josh Holmes (27:23)

He's absolutely. I mean, there is entrenched interest. Obviously, you're battling these every day. A lot of people get disheartened. When you look at a problem with the magnitude, the scale that we're talking about in terms of fraud, you don't seem. It seems to excite you.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (27:40)

Well, look, President Trump just pushes you to solve the problem. And Secretary Rubio, I don't know how many jobs he has a different outfit on, on the Internet every day. Great, great memes. Wait. Wait till you see the TikTok with me and Nicki Minaj.

John Ashbrook (28:02)

Marco's gonna.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (28:02)

Marco's gonna be jealous. Marco's going to be jealous. The intro competition for who's got memes? Yes, but look, we're here to help the American people. Right. Size the government and ferret out waste, fraud and abuse that it could be up to 500, $600 billion.

Josh Holmes (28:27)

That's a big number.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (28:28)

I mean, think if you put those in Trump accounts, what it would do. It would be for the children of America.

Show Announcer (28:34)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (28:34)

A little bit of growth rather than just fraud.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (28:37)

Exactly.

Josh Holmes (28:38)

It's crazy. All right, so the stuff that you can control, at least from our vantage point, you guys have done an enormous amount of work on the infrastructure of making us successful, both economically, wages, everything else. What makes you nervous globally, in terms of the global economy, how that affects here in the United States. Is there anything. Do you feel like you're a step ahead at this point?

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (29:01)

Well, we're monitoring it pretty well. Could there be an external shock? You never know. That January 2020 president signed this incredible phase one trade deal with China, and then 90 days later, six weeks later, the government shut down. And he's right. The economy was just hitting on all cylinders. And I wasn't privy to the polling, but in the popular vote, he was probably ahead 6, 7, 8%. He was killing it. So it's just like, what kind of unknown is out there? We try to have a lot of treasury, we try to have a lot of early warning indicators on financial.

Josh Holmes (29:47)

To a bunch of a couple of guys that grew up in the 08 situation, the job prospects, not terrific, but also just scary as an American consumer. And it seems as though because you talk about this sort of thing a lot, that you have eyes on different pieces to make sure that we're not just completely vulnerable.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (30:05)

Well, there's a group of us who predicted and made money on the 060-708-09. The crisis. And I promise you that I didn't take any joy out of it. We were screaming to the rooftops. Look at this. Look at what is happening. And it's always the same. I told the history of financial crises at Yale. And it's always backdrop. It's always the same. So we're constantly testing here, pushing there and making sure that the system is sound. I think the problem with a lot of Democrats is they think that over regulation is the answer. How do you never get in a car accident, never leave your house? Right, right. Fair enough. How does a bank never lose money? Don't lend any back to Main Street. We're trying to bring back small banks. 50%, 5 0% of small banks, community banks have disappeared since the GFC. And I think that's one of the reasons Main street has been hurt, because they are real estate loans, small business loans, ag loans.

Josh Holmes (31:18)

And they're part of the community.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (31:20)

Part of the community. And so we are trying to get back in the business of if somebody wants to start a small bank of supporting that. We got too big to fail, became too small to succeed.

Michael Duncan (31:34)

All the regulations that government was putting on banks made it so that you couldn't even start a small bank for a community at all.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (31:39)

And in 2023, with all that regulation, with all that supervision, we had three of the largest bank failures in US History. And I tell you, Elizabeth Warren couldn't sweep it under the rug fast enough.

Josh Holmes (31:53)

Doesn't want to talk about it.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (31:54)

Don't want to talk about it.

Josh Holmes (31:55)

Well, there's an awful lot of us that take great comfort in knowing that you are at the wheel of this economy because you're doing a heck of a job. You know what you're talking about? Your toughest nails. Can't thank you enough for joining us and inviting us to this wonderful event.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (32:08)

Well, good. Thanks for coming. President Trump sets the tone. I'll get a call. Scott, I didn't wake you to wake you, did I? No, sir. I'm always up at 152 on Tuesday. So you got to keep up with him. And like I said, it's an honor to serve. I think we're going to have a great economy. And I do think that one of the president's great legacies, I think some of these peace deals that are going to endure will be a great legacy. But I think for the American families.

Michael Duncan (32:40)

This is going to change the trajectory of so many families. The Trump accounts, building that wealth and Financial literacy.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (32:46)

And one of the journalists said to me before, and I never really thought about the symmetry of the number. 39% of young people don't think capitalism works or believe in socialism. 38% of households don't have financial assets or not invested in the market. So I think we can make a big difference there.

Josh Holmes (33:09)

Turns out when you have a financial plan, things generally work right. You have a plan. If you have the capability of planning, it works out for you.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (33:17)

And again, you got the government and the private sector doing it.

Josh Holmes (33:24)

On the right side.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (33:24)

On the right side, yeah.

Josh Holmes (33:26)

Well, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (33:28)

Good to see you all.

Josh Holmes (33:29)

Absolutely.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (33:29)

Good to see you.

Show Announcer (33:32)

Fellas. I got to tell you, just an absolute masterclass in conducting an interview. You got into fighting. You got into Gavin News. You got into the Trump accounts. You got into something that I'm hoping that we can reserve until after we discuss all of those hard news items. Because Smugs, baby, is the hottest item on the ruthless variety.

Josh Holmes (33:53)

I am. You decided to break the news in real time to the Treasury Secretary.

Michael Duncan (33:57)

Yeah. I mean, like I said in the interview, when his folks first got in touch with us and said that Treasury's doing the summit with President Trump about the Trump accounts, I said, listen, if you can get us a sit down face to face with the Treasury Secretary, I'm going to break the news globally. Do you think you'll have this exclusive to the Treasury Secretary?

John Ashbrook (34:16)

Smug worked some sort of side deal with the US treasury that they like up his Trump account.

Michael Duncan (34:20)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (34:21)

No, I feel like. I feel like Bassen was in on it. He also seemed to be like, okay, good, you're dead. That's awesome.

Michael Duncan (34:27)

And see that?

Josh Holmes (34:30)

Not that fired out. Not as fired up as the rest of us were.

John Ashbrook (34:33)

Well, I mean, he met Smug and he's probably like, are you sure?

Josh Holmes (34:35)

He's like, holy shit, I'm going to need double these Trump accounts. I mean, listen, it's a big deal. You've been giving fatherhood advice on this program for what seems like the entirety of this program.

Michael Duncan (34:47)

Yep. And that's the thing. Part about the Trump accounts is a lot of financial literacy is, like, academic. You read about it, but what do you do in practice? And that's what everyone's gonna see when my wonderful son arrives.

Josh Holmes (35:00)

You're gonna demonstrate to the rest of the world how you father a child, how it's done.

Michael Duncan (35:04)

100%. I could not be more thrilled. My wife and I are just over the moon. Our families are thrilled. Could not be happier.

John Ashbrook (35:12)

Are we thinking like, Michael Smug Jr. For the name or something?

Josh Holmes (35:15)

Yeah, probably not Michael Jon.

Michael Duncan (35:18)

We have some great names in mind.

Josh Holmes (35:20)

Smug.

Michael Duncan (35:21)

And we will wait until he arrives. Can't wait.

John Ashbrook (35:25)

In May, I think we should let the people vote.

Michael Duncan (35:27)

And also, it is so fortuitous that he's here for the 250th anniversary of the country. You know, like, you think of all these stories you get to tell your kids, and he'll be born the year America turns 250. On his 250th birthday.

John Ashbrook (35:42)

Yeah.

Michael Duncan (35:43)

And, you know, the public found out about him through the Treasury Secretary. You know, President Trump is making all our dreams come true. And thank you so much, Treasury. Thank you so much, President Trump. This has been a wonderful experience, and I could not be more excited.

Josh Holmes (35:58)

It's like when Smash talked to John Adams about this sort of thing.

Show Announcer (36:01)

Yeah, that's right. Face to face, you realize. I'll tell you all about it.

Senator Ted Cruz (36:06)

But.

Josh Holmes (36:06)

Honestly, wide range of topics that we went through, you get the impression that he's just not shy to a fight.

Michael Duncan (36:15)

No.

Josh Holmes (36:15)

Real happy to engage. Whether it be physical or rhetorical. He's your man.

Michael Duncan (36:20)

If I had to guess, it's because he probably wins them all. Like, the streak that he's on. This economy is red hot. And you look at all the accomplishments him and President Trump have gotten done. Amazing.

Josh Holmes (36:31)

How about the San Francisco blast? He threw it. I didn't see that coming. That was.

Michael Duncan (36:36)

Dude does not take prison. That was interesting.

Josh Holmes (36:39)

I didn't see it coming.

Show Announcer (36:40)

Who wants a Treasury secretary that gets up there and bores everybody and just signs his name to the dollar bill?

Josh Holmes (36:45)

Yeah.

Show Announcer (36:45)

And it's like, you want a fighter?

Josh Holmes (36:47)

Totally.

Show Announcer (36:47)

This economy needs a fighter. And it's like, no wonder why he has so much optimism about the future of our country, because he sees it for what it is. The guy is actually brilliant. I mean, you talk to anybody in this town, Democrat or Republican, in New York, people in the finance sector, you know, like, they all sing his praises.

Michael Duncan (37:07)

Yep.

Show Announcer (37:07)

They're like, okay.

Josh Holmes (37:08)

You know, you encounter so few people in this town who aren't in it for, like, the status seeking or the fame or the, you know, the notoriety at some. Signing your name to the dollar bill is like the. That's the best part of being a Treasury secretary. And you just get the impression he doesn't give a shit about any of that.

Michael Duncan (37:27)

Right.

Josh Holmes (37:28)

Like, none of it. And the harder the fight, it seems like the more excited he is. I mean, look at him lean in on that interview when we Started talking about the Gavin Newsom stuff and, like, the back room brawling and all of that. Like, that's what he loves.

Michael Duncan (37:40)

He's there for the fight.

Josh Holmes (37:41)

He loves. It's like, yes, now it makes. Now you've got my attention. What a thing. I mean, it's great. Particularly satisfying for that other thing we talked about, which is like, are you. What are we doing to look around the corner?

Senator Ted Cruz (37:54)

Yep.

Josh Holmes (37:54)

Cause, like, for our generation, every time you've sort of gotten a foothold in something, like, whoops, we just had these weird things with housing markets and commoditizing your mortgages, and we decided credit default swaps were in order. Sorry, you got no more jobs and no more livelihood. Or then you build this incredible economy in the first Trump term. And it's like, whoops, we did a global pandemic for the first time in 135 years. So him talking through. I've never heard him discuss that with anyone, but I think it's because that's the perspective that we bring on this. Is that, like, yeah, things feel good. It feels like you're doing a bunch. So what's around the corner?

Show Announcer (38:37)

Right.

Josh Holmes (38:37)

Because our generation has been entirely encapsulated with the rug pull.

John Ashbrook (38:41)

I believe the left calls that generational trauma or something. We've had some of that.

Josh Holmes (38:46)

We've had some of that. But to have him saying, yeah, we pressure test this stuff, like, we are looking around. I'm not gonna get into detail on it, but, yeah, it just brings me so much comfort in knowing that you've got somebody who thinks of the job that way rather than what's my name look like on the dollar bill.

Show Announcer (39:05)

Right. He's got a personality, you know, mostly that. I mean, we said it before, but that position usually has somebody who can't talk their way out of a paper bag. They got the green eye shades and the number two pencil, and they're like, no, I swear to you, if you line up the debits and credits, this is gonna work. And it's like, you have a guy who's an actual leader in that position. I mean, we're so lucky to have somebody like Scott Besson in that job.

Josh Holmes (39:28)

No question about it. Coming up next, your comments from last episode when we asked what are your early Senate predictions, which is the states that Republicans are going to win, and why? You get a lot of good comments on all of this. And that's part of our midterm coverage, which we're going to be doing an awful lot of. We're going to add in short order all of the House side of all of that, which I know are House friends over there, which you know, they don't have a lot to do. So we're joking. We love you, but I think Chairman Hudson's coming on sometime soon to give us the whole layout of what we covered in the Senate for the House side in short order. Your comments right after this. Okay. When you like and subscribe to the Ruthless Variety program, we give you a question of the day. We read every single one of your answers and get back to the very next episode. The previous question was what are your early Senate predictions? Which states will Republican win and why? To do that, we always start with a voice, fellas.

Show Announcer (40:27)

The first comment comes from a mighty familiar name, Michael McCready. Michael writes personal prediction. Maine and North Carolina are the most likely GOP losses in 2026. Other Republican seats would flip only in a strong Democratic wave. I predict the Republicans will keep control of the Senate but margins will be tight.

Josh Holmes (40:49)

Interesting, interesting case. I mean look, there are a lot of theories of the case and we're going to give it to you straight here throughout. We're going to talk to everybody. It's primary season. We're going to give you a good sense of who these candidates are. You can be the judge ultimately, but I think, you know, like we're not in the business of floating everybody's tires. So we'll give you our senses of where we're at throughout this process. It's a good episode to set the table, I thought on all of that. All right, comment 2 ducks.

John Ashbrook (41:16)

This one's from Java Blanca. Java writes of all the seats the debacle in Georgia in 2020 needs wiped from this earth. If Republicans can't get Georgia back where it belongs despite Atlanta, I hold little hope for a Senate majority.

Josh Holmes (41:33)

That's a good take. I mean there's a lot of people that think that's a must win situation. I agree. I mean I think any not just in terms of this Senate majority in, you know, what will be 2027, but the longer term when you think about six year terms, you kind of have to have.

Michael Duncan (41:53)

Yep.

Josh Holmes (41:53)

You kind of have to have it.

Show Announcer (41:54)

In local politics does still matter. I don't think Democrats brand in the state of Georgia is at its peak right now on the heels of Stacey Abrams stealing $2 billion for gas stoves. Right. Like, I mean it's not their best stuff and I feel like we do have a shot in that state. We should. Yeah.

Josh Holmes (42:12)

Yeah. We're going to Talk to all the candidates here in short order. Comment 3, Smugglesworth.

Michael Duncan (42:17)

Comment 3 is from Casey Hines. Casey writes road trip to Louisiana, smug on a fanboat. That sounds like a trip Fox News could underwrite.

Josh Holmes (42:27)

Did we write this?

Michael Duncan (42:30)

Kill Mead and Smug. Alligator wrestling. Pay per view. Gold mine.

Josh Holmes (42:34)

Casey. Maybe Casey is like a pseudonym for Wolf. Yeah, it feels like that one almost came from an internal standpoint. I love it.

Michael Duncan (42:43)

I bet Kilmeade would be in. He's always a blast to hang out with.

Josh Holmes (42:46)

Well, you know, he's gonna be working. And you think he wears a suit and tie if we alligator wrestle, dude, probably.

Michael Duncan (42:52)

If there is something that needs to be done, Kilmeade is there in a suit and tie. Does not matter if it's the crack of dawn, does not matter if there's like a snowstorm.

Josh Holmes (42:59)

Killmeade's the guy wakes in and up and just cinches it right from the beginning. Alarm goes off, cinches it, Ready to go. Maybe a teeth brush. That's it. Okay, so coming up, very important comments from the President of the United States and an issue that is probably going to confront us here in the early part of the summer about the Supreme Court and whether there's an opening and whether President Trump has a choice. Well, he indicated he might have one. And we talked to not only him, but we get the reaction from the candidate right after this.

Show Announcer (43:35)

20 days. One historic move and an unbelievable journey. Melania from Amazon MGM Studios captures the one of a kind transition into the White House, showcasing the planning, pressure and personal moments that come with stepping into the role of the first lady for a second time. From logistical complexities to decisions made behind closed doors, the film brings you closer to Mrs. Trump and her family as they retire to the nation's capital. See what history looks like before the doors officially open. Melania arrives in theaters exclusively on January 30, 2026.

Josh Holmes (44:19)

Okay, so smug and I are just sitting in the audience enjoying a wonderful day with all the treasury folks and the titans of industry. And the people are gonna take advantage of Trump accounts. And the President has got his typical entertaining comments. He's got a little something about everybody in the audience.

John Ashbrook (44:39)

He's doing crowd work.

Josh Holmes (44:40)

He's doing. He's great at it. He's the absolute best at crowd work. And then he gets to Ted and it's like he always has a little bit of fun with Ted Cruz. Interestingly, he took it in a very different direction. Can we go to this clip?

Donald Trump (44:56)

Ted Cruz has one thing that I, if I ever have problems because it's hard to get people approved. He's a brilliant legal mind. He's a brilliant man. If I nominate him for the United States Supreme Court, I will get 100% of the vote. The Democrats will vote for him because they want to get him the hell out. And the Republicans will vote for him because they want to get him the hell out, too. Where's Ted? Where are you, Ted? And with all of that being said, he's a great guy, too. He's a great guy. We've become friends. And he's a very effective person, too. Thank you, Ted, very much.

Josh Holmes (45:33)

All right, so in typical Trump fashion, he's having some fun. But then he drops this bombshell, which has been rumored for a long time. Well, we decided we gotta hustle down and try to find what Ted Cruz's reaction to this is. Because in the Republican atmosphere that is Washington, D.C. it's long been rumored that this guy has been shortlisted at some level for a Supreme Court. His background's in the law. He thinks like a lawyer.

Show Announcer (46:00)

Younger guy.

Josh Holmes (46:01)

Younger guy would be an incredibly effective conservative jurist. So we're like, we gotta get his reaction to this. I think we might be the only ones that are getting reaction. Check this out. In this interview with Ted Cruz.

Michael Duncan (46:15)

Something that President Trump mentioned really caught my ears and imagination. He mentioned Supreme Court Justice Ted Cruz, which I think would be. If we talk about legacy, having a true defender of the Constitution on the bench, I think the American people would be excited with that.

Senator Ted Cruz (46:34)

Look, I am flattered to be discussed in those circles, but I will tell you, it is not gonna happen. My answer is not just no, it's hell, no. And look is interesting. In the first Trump term, the president talked to me about all three Supreme Court vacancies.

Show Announcer (46:53)

They were ruined.

Senator Ted Cruz (46:53)

Yeah. And we had very serious conversations, and I told him no three times. Now, I don't want to overstate it. He didn't offer it to me. But the one that was the most serious was the first vacancy. It was the Scalia seat that went to Gorsuch. And the president took about 45 minutes in Trump Tower leaning in and trying to convince me that I should do it. And I just said, look, no, I don't want that job.

Josh Holmes (47:17)

You're like, I don't look good in a robe anyway.

Senator Ted Cruz (47:19)

You know, black's not my color.

Michael Duncan (47:21)

Did part of you want to be like, you know what? I love Barack Obama, Supreme Court pick to be Ted Cruz. Let's do this.

Senator Ted Cruz (47:30)

You know, look, particularly on the first One, I wrestled with it because I knew Justice Scalia and revered him. He's truly a legend. And to have the opportunity to succeed him, I mean, talk about taking your breath away. I mean, that's an amazing possibility. The reason I said no. And people are surprised when people hear that. They're like, why would you do that? And I had friends of mine that are like, are you an idiot? And maybe. But look, a principled federal judge stays out of political fights and stays out of policy fights. I don't want to stay out of those fights. I want to be right in the middle of them. And if you want to be in the middle of political and policy fights, being in elected office in the political branches is the right place to do it. So if I'd said yes, there would be no Trump accounts, because I wouldn't have written that provision, the school choice provision. I wouldn't have written that. I want to fight for school choice. I want to fight for Trump accounts. I want to fight to secure the border. I want to fight to cut taxes. I want to fight to rebuild our military. Being a judge is not the place to do that.

Josh Holmes (48:32)

And outlining at the same time as understanding what makes a good judge by refusing to engage in. That's. Well, well said. Very well said. Listen, great event. Obviously, these accounts, these Trump accounts, incredibly important. You've been active on this for years and years. What does today's event mean to you?

Senator Ted Cruz (48:49)

Look, today's event was awesome, and I think this is utterly transformational. They're two provisions that were in the one big, beautiful bill now called the Working Families Tax cut. By the way, it polls 30 points better, which is why everyone calls it the Working Families Tax cut. It literally, you change the title, and 30 points, it pops up.

Josh Holmes (49:07)

We still call it the big Beauty.

Senator Ted Cruz (49:08)

Yeah, well, you know, you're polling 30 points down. You've been in this business.

Josh Holmes (49:12)

You gotta get up.

Senator Ted Cruz (49:13)

But the two provisions in the bill that I think are the most consequential are, number one, school choice and number two, the Trump accounts. And both of those I authored. They're both my provisions, really. And I went to the president and made the case directly. And I'll tell you what I told my colleagues, you know, my colleagues, the Republicans in the Senate.

Josh Holmes (49:33)

Yeah.

Senator Ted Cruz (49:33)

So last April, we had a retreat of all the Senate Republicans, and we were drafting the one big, beautiful bill, which you should tell me to change the name of it. And I stood up, I said, look, there are lots of really important things in this bill that we all care about. Securing the border, hugely important. Rebuilding the military, the biggest tax cut in a generation. All of those are massively important. And what I said to our colleagues is, I said, listen, we ought to think for a minute about legacy, about what in 10, 20, 30 years will people remember that really makes a difference? And in April last year, I said, I've got two candidates for that school choice and the Trump accounts. And both of them are in. You look at these Trump accounts, every kid in America.

Josh Holmes (50:15)

Incredible.

Senator Ted Cruz (50:16)

Is going to get the benefit of compound growth. But we're making a whole new generation of capitalists. This is what makes me excited, is that, you know, half of Americans don't own a single stock or bond. Now. Every kid in America is going to be an owner of the biggest employers in this country. That's transformational.

Josh Holmes (50:33)

I think it's something to measure up against the socialist promises that never come in from issue.

Michael Duncan (50:38)

They've got candidates. Or these politicians like AOC and Bernie, trying to get young people into socialism, being like, oh, you've got nothing going for you. You've got nothing to lose. This actually gets skin in the game.

Senator Ted Cruz (50:50)

Exactly. And that's what got me very excited. All right, I'm gonna tell you a cool story that you're gonna like. Do you know how the Trump accounts got enacted?

Josh Holmes (50:59)

I'd love to hear your version.

Senator Ted Cruz (51:01)

So the origin story goes back April, a year ago. So not last April, but the April before. So, as you guys know, I like to play poker. And I do. Every year in April, I do a poker fundraiser in Vegas. And so I'm at the poker fundraiser in Vegas, and we get some poker pros who come out and play with us. And so Phil Hellmy, JB Pritzker, for example. No, I'm just kidding. That would be out of my budget.

Michael Duncan (51:24)

Right. You get Phil Hellmuth. Yeah, Phil.

Senator Ted Cruz (51:27)

Phil's awesome. And he's a buddy of mine. He's one of the greatest poker pros alive. And so we're sitting there, Phil and I are playing. It's about 2:00am at the Bellagio, and Phil asks me, says, hey, do you know Brad Gerstner? And I said, no, who's he?

Michael Duncan (51:39)

No way.

Senator Ted Cruz (51:39)

And you know, Brad is a Silicon Valley venture capitalist. Brilliant guy. And he came up with the idea of the Trump accounts. Brad and his two sons, literally at their kitchen table, they came up with the idea.

Josh Holmes (51:50)

Amazing.

Senator Ted Cruz (51:51)

And so Phil describes it to me, and I said, that sounds awesome. I'd be very interested in that idea. So Phil pulls out his phone and he puts together A text thread. And he texts me and he texts Brad, says, you2 should talk.

Michael Duncan (52:02)

Amazing.

Senator Ted Cruz (52:02)

The next week, Brad got on a plane, flew to dc, Came to my office, pitched the idea to me. I said, I love it. We immediately drafted the bill. That's what's in the bill. That's what this event is from a.

Josh Holmes (52:13)

2Am all you got to do is play a little high stakes poker with Ted Cruz. Next thing you know, your policies are set.

Senator Ted Cruz (52:18)

There you go. What happens in Vegas doesn't stay in Vegas.

Michael Duncan (52:21)

That whole I'm just a bill song isn't really how it works. I guess you have it in the poker game.

Fields of Freedom Alliance Representative (52:26)

Good.

Josh Holmes (52:26)

River, I know you got a lot of stuff now.

Senator Ted Cruz (52:28)

I got to say though, I'm. I'm getting a little bit of an inferiority complex, which is, I know, is something that I struggle with.

Josh Holmes (52:34)

What have we done now?

Senator Ted Cruz (52:36)

You know, it's. It's. I'm shy and, and.

Josh Holmes (52:38)

And a wallflower says that.

Michael Duncan (52:40)

Yeah, yeah.

Show Announcer (52:40)

So.

Senator Ted Cruz (52:41)

So. So I just want to do what I can to fit in. And, and so good look. Yeah. You know, when in Rome.

Josh Holmes (52:48)

You got to be careful in those things. They. People can mistake you for all kinds of nefarious stuff when you're wearing that on set.

Senator Ted Cruz (52:53)

Hey, your partner in crime is a good looking man.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (52:57)

I love it.

Josh Holmes (52:58)

Senator, thank you for joining us. Really appreciate it.

Michael Duncan (53:00)

Thank you so much. Thanks.

Show Announcer (53:04)

I mean, fellas, once again, just an absolute masterclass of interviews. The guy. First of all, Ted Cruz is always fun whenever we have him here on the program. But I mean, that is real news.

Josh Holmes (53:16)

Yeah.

Show Announcer (53:17)

You know what I mean? The journos in D.C. can't get that news. You get it here on the hottest, most influential podcast.

John Ashbrook (53:23)

I gotta say, like, I don't believe Ted.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (53:25)

I don't believe.

John Ashbrook (53:27)

I'm not buying it.

Josh Holmes (53:28)

Really.

John Ashbrook (53:28)

Well, I mean, Ted came up in the legal world. I mean, he worked as a lawyer on the Bush campaign. He becomes Texas Solicitor General, where he's bringing suits against the Obama administration, which.

Josh Holmes (53:40)

Is like a pathway arguing before the.

John Ashbrook (53:43)

United States Supreme Court. I have to think at some level, like, this is the brass ring becoming a justice.

Josh Holmes (53:49)

I mean, I would tend to agree, except for when smug asked question. I know you don't get hell no a lot.

John Ashbrook (53:56)

Yeah, that's true.

Michael Duncan (53:57)

The thing is, is he gave such a great answer to that. In terms of what you would hope to hear from someone who's like, I want to effectuate policy. That's why I'm a legislator. Judges should not be like that. And I was like, wow, that's a great answer. At the same time, I think the right should start having judges who are.

Josh Holmes (54:18)

Wanting to do policy for the bench.

Michael Duncan (54:19)

Maybe he's the right guy. Do it, Ted. Policy.

Josh Holmes (54:22)

But interestingly, in the interview, he also provides background for the first time that I've heard it, on why this rumor started in the first place and that he's talking about his interactions with then President elect Donald Trump right after the 2016 election where he has to fill that Scalia seat. I didn't know that it went to the extent of doing, like, multiple interviews and grilling him for 45 minutes and trying to convince him to take the gig. That was the first time that I'd ever heard that. And he'd come back to him a couple of times subsequently. So this was a real thing.

Michael Duncan (54:58)

That's breaking news. Yeah.

John Ashbrook (54:59)

But, I mean, I think he's at a different period in his political career. I think if he was offered again, he might take it.

Josh Holmes (55:05)

Well, he'd be great at it. He would be great at it.

Michael Duncan (55:08)

He would be so phenomenal.

John Ashbrook (55:09)

I mean, that's what I'm saying. Like, I want him to take it because I think he would be phenomenal at it.

Josh Holmes (55:13)

Can I throw a conspiracy in here?

Senator Ted Cruz (55:15)

Okay.

Show Announcer (55:15)

Please.

Josh Holmes (55:16)

Unfounded, completely baseless.

Michael Duncan (55:18)

Okay.

Josh Holmes (55:19)

Rumor around town is that he has been meeting with an enormous amount of influential people about perhaps another presidential bid. Really, in turn, and that is ruffled a few feathers in the Vance camp as a result of that. Maybe what the President of the United States is doing there is sort of road testing. He's throwing up a trial balloon on a way to just sort of clear out a successor to Donald J. Trump. Solve this problem in some ways, and that you get both an incredibly sort of uncompromised justice that you would want as a conservative, which Trump has done throughout his entire presidency. And you can kind of figure out a way to clear a lane for a successor. What do you think about that?

Michael Duncan (56:13)

That's a theory.

Show Announcer (56:14)

Yeah. I think if that's true, you're gonna have every member of the Federalist Society sweating through their Park Avenue shoes on their way to the White House to try to say they're also running for president. All you have to do is nominate me as a judge. I won't run, sir. I promise.

Josh Holmes (56:29)

He also had some funny. You know, I didn't realize he was the pen behind a lot of the Trump account stuff. But the backstory on that in terms of the guy that he met and the conversations they had about how you would Structure that was fascinating. Cuz we've heard from basically everybody. I actually didn't know when Cruz was in the audience during the President's address, I was like, oh, it's weird, you know, interesting that Ted's here. Like, I didn't connect the two. I didn't know that he was actually responsible at some level for putting the whole thing together.

Michael Duncan (56:59)

And I mean, what a victory. Not just for President Trump, not just for treasury, not just for Cruz getting this across the finish line, but this, these Trump accounts are going to change the course of so many families who are going to start building wealth and learning about managing money instead of ending up a victim of the school systems, which essentially just don't teach financial literacy whatsoever.

John Ashbrook (57:25)

Well, can I say one more thing about the Trump accounts? I think the brilliance of this is it's done in such Trump fashion in that he's taking this like, populist side of an issue that otherwise would have probably died a slow death in a white paper in the bowels of some think tank.

Josh Holmes (57:48)

Yeah.

John Ashbrook (57:48)

You know, where, like, I could understand that there'd be, you know, conservative thought leaders who are writing about this as a way to, like, get young people invested into the American economy.

Josh Holmes (58:00)

Yeah. 20 year think discussion.

Show Announcer (58:01)

Yeah.

John Ashbrook (58:02)

But like, you could never figure out a way to get to the light of day because of the, you know, the machinations of politics in dc. It takes somebody of the personality and the populist streak of a Donald Trump to be like, hey, you know what? I'm not only gonna get this delight of day, I'm gonna get a bunch of billionaires to buy into this program that otherwise would never get done.

Josh Holmes (58:23)

Yeah. Somebody's stroking a private check for six and a half B. I mean, who.

John Ashbrook (58:26)

Can complain about that?

Josh Holmes (58:27)

What a way to get it off the ground.

Show Announcer (58:28)

Exactly.

Senator Ted Cruz (58:29)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (58:30)

No, it's really well done. Anyway, the great interview. And he threw on the shades at the end for you.

John Ashbrook (58:34)

Yeah, he did.

Michael Duncan (58:35)

Everyone was just having a great time. This was such a tremendous victory for all the stakeholders there for President Trump, for, for the treasury, for Senator Cruz. It was just great to see everyone there united. And this shows when everyone's working together, great things happen.

Josh Holmes (58:49)

Totally. Although when he threw the shades on, I felt like the Delta Force was gonna fly through the window. He looked like Pablo Escobar in those things. It was like, I mean, for real, you saw it? I mean, if you're not on YouTube, you should check it out. Tell me I'm wrong.

John Ashbrook (59:06)

He became Rafael Cruz.

Michael Duncan (59:08)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Ashbrook (59:09)

Very, very true.

Show Announcer (59:10)

Last image John Kennedy ever saw.

Josh Holmes (59:14)

All of a sudden you had that sonic weapon.

John Ashbrook (59:16)

Wow.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (59:17)

That.

Josh Holmes (59:17)

I can't believe you just did that. Just did the full 2016 throwback.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (59:23)

Yeah, we don't.

Show Announcer (59:24)

We'll never know.

Josh Holmes (59:25)

Yeah, yeah, that note, what was it?

Michael Duncan (59:27)

The.

Josh Holmes (59:28)

What was the Killer. Zodiac.

Show Announcer (59:30)

Zodiac Killer.

Josh Holmes (59:30)

Yeah, the Zodiac Killer. Also I threw in the thing right off the top about the ice storm for you OGs who are here from the beginning. You know exactly what I'm talking about. The first time we ever sat down with Ted. I'll let you go back and find all that out. But that was a great interview and I'm glad we bookended it with that because it's like you get the multiple perspectives and the answer to a serious question. Anyhoo, I think we gotta play a game, don't you?

Michael Duncan (59:59)

That's right. Our signature game. King of the Hell.

Josh Holmes (60:02)

Let's do it.

John Ashbrook (60:03)

It's Thursday. Yeah. So I lost last week. Very controversial decision. So I think that means Ashbrook is in the game this week.

Show Announcer (60:12)

I've got a challenger, Commie Cherry Jacobus.

John Ashbrook (60:15)

Cherry Jacobus and Smug. Your judge.

Michael Duncan (60:18)

I'm the judge and I was bailiff last week and I instructed everyone in the court that we had a rule.

Josh Holmes (60:25)

There is no rule.

Michael Duncan (60:26)

Three wins in a row and they're retired.

Josh Holmes (60:28)

You can't.

Michael Duncan (60:29)

They're a cool off, period.

John Ashbrook (60:30)

They're alluding to the fact, the fact that Holmes is now played Steve Schmidt for what, five weeks?

Josh Holmes (60:36)

This has never been a rule.

Michael Duncan (60:38)

And so I, I have time when I'm judge, it will be enforced. And it's up to you whether you roll with Steve Schmidt or not. And so who are you going with?

Josh Holmes (60:47)

Steve Schmidt.

John Ashbrook (60:48)

Okay, well, the toughest thing about this is Ashbrook can't throw it because he's playing in the game.

Michael Duncan (60:52)

Yeah, he rigged it last time. That's the thing is like you want to punish him for rigging it as a horrible judge. But we'll see what happens. Yeah, we'll see what happens.

John Ashbrook (60:59)

Well, let's go ringside.

Josh Holmes (61:00)

This is out, right? Am I. Hold on. Before we go ringside, am I to understand that this is going to be a biased law?

Michael Duncan (61:06)

I think sometimes conservatives need to have activist judges.

Josh Holmes (61:12)

This is unbelievable.

Michael Duncan (61:13)

Time to fight fire with fire.

Josh Holmes (61:15)

Well, I'm going to file. I'm going to. I think that's grounds for an appeal.

Michael Duncan (61:18)

File them all. File them all.

Josh Holmes (61:20)

But we'll see how this goes.

John Ashbrook (61:21)

We'll put that right in the trash. Let's go ringside.

Show Announcer (61:27)

Ladies and gentlemen, your attention everyone. Please. It's time for King of the hip. In the blue corner, fighting from her own Blue sky account. And now in the red corner, fighting from his home in Utah. And current jumping over of the world, the old fat man, Ste Schmitz.

Josh Holmes (62:03)

I don't know how you could ever outlaw that intro.

John Ashbrook (62:07)

Well, current champion pretender to the throne who should have lost last week.

Josh Holmes (62:11)

That's just outrageous.

John Ashbrook (62:13)

He has to go first.

Josh Holmes (62:15)

I mean, what a. I not only have to deal with a hostile judge, but a bailiff. All right, so exhibit one, if you don't mind. It should also be noted that like many Nazi thugs of yesteryear, Bovino is a loser, a coward, and a poser and a moron.

Michael Duncan (62:39)

Unbelievable.

Josh Holmes (62:41)

So Bovino, this is the guy that has sort of been a part of all the ICE action and all these things. He's sort of taking the hit from the left as being the guy that is mastermind of an awful lot of things of what's happening in Minnesota. He seized upon that to equate him with a Nazi.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (62:56)

Incredible.

Michael Duncan (62:58)

Let's hear from Sherry Jacobus.

Show Announcer (63:00)

Okay, Commie Cherry, exhibit number 14. Please remind your MAGA pals that Trump's ICE murderers have nothing to do with deporting illegal immigrants. Obama deported more people than Trump, and it didn't murder them or us. Trump used MAGA racism as his excuse to imitate Putin and Hitler because it's always been the plan.

Michael Duncan (63:23)

Incredible. So, wow. Wow. It's insane the way that the left has so freely not just called law enforcement, these gentlemen who are working for ICE Nazis, but murderers and anything possible to gin up this lawless mob to try and attack these people. There can be no quarter given to these people who are like this. We all have to reject them. And so the nuttiest take is, hands down, Sherry Jacobus. Wow.

Josh Holmes (63:57)

I see where this is going.

John Ashbrook (63:58)

Well, actually, what I love about that.

Josh Holmes (64:00)

Take is you're gonna add some hopefully, like, validating commentary to the football.

Michael Duncan (64:06)

Duncan.

John Ashbrook (64:07)

It's like Sherry Jacobus pretends, before these people tragically lost their lives, that she somehow supported Trump's deportation policy. This is what broke it for her. She was 100% behind Donald Trump before some rioters started assaulting police with their.

Josh Holmes (64:25)

Cars, trying to put an extra veil on.

John Ashbrook (64:29)

I don't think it was necessary the content of its merits.

Michael Duncan (64:32)

Ashbrook, round two, challenger.

Show Announcer (64:34)

Okay, exhibit number 13, please. And this includes an image which I'll just briefly describe. It's of the Nuremberg trial. Jerry Jacobus pastes that image of the Nuremberg trials and the man who was hanged and says tagging Sean Hannity and Jesse B. Waters for no particular reason.

Michael Duncan (64:55)

That's insane. That's insane.

Show Announcer (64:57)

Cherry Jacobus.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (64:58)

Wow.

American Petroleum Institute Representative (64:59)

Pretty good.

Show Announcer (65:00)

8:35Pm on January 26th.

Michael Duncan (65:03)

That's insane.

Josh Holmes (65:04)

I'm gonna make it particularly tough on this judge and jury to show his impartiality.

Michael Duncan (65:10)

Okay.

Josh Holmes (65:11)

And his prejudging of the moment, so to speak, in sticking with the thematic of the wonderful interview that we did with Secretary Bessen on this very show. Exhibit four, please. Gavin Newsom was great in Davos and is getting better and better.

Michael Duncan (65:28)

Amazing.

Josh Holmes (65:29)

He is meeting the moment. We must all meet the moment linked to the substack.

Michael Duncan (65:34)

So one consistent thing about Steve Schmidt is he's horrible at picking a horse to back in a race. And I saw just yesterday fresh polling among likely Democrat primary voters of who you would support if they ran for president. And Newsom has lost ground. Number one is Kamala Harris. And so now that Newsom is failing, Steve Schmidt, as always, jumps and says, this is my guy.

John Ashbrook (66:01)

Yeah.

Michael Duncan (66:02)

Just for that, I'll let you have this round so we can all enjoy three rounds.

Show Announcer (66:07)

Okay.

Josh Holmes (66:07)

All right, all right.

Michael Duncan (66:12)

All right.

Josh Holmes (66:12)

I've got a couple of different ones that I think I'm gonna choose from here. And I think I'm gonna go with Exhibit 5. Stephen Miller, Pam Bondi, Greg Bevino, Tom Homan, Kristi Noem and Todd Blanche are America's new judge, jury and executioners. They decide who lives and dies in America.

Michael Duncan (66:39)

Absurd.

Show Announcer (66:40)

Take.

Josh Holmes (66:40)

I mean, come on. Ashbrook.

Show Announcer (66:44)

Okay. Exhibit 11, please. Jerry Jacobus is, quote, tweeting an image.

Michael Duncan (66:51)

Oh, my God.

Show Announcer (66:52)

The assassination attempt on President Trump.

Josh Holmes (66:54)

Okay.

Show Announcer (66:55)

And apropos of Nothing, here on January 5th at 6:47pm, she tweets it was fake and we all know it.

Josh Holmes (67:04)

Judge, before you render a verdict, I.

Michael Duncan (67:06)

Don'T care about the date.

Josh Holmes (67:06)

Let me, let me, let me. It's a tracked all of my objections on the impartiality of this judge and jury. I've seen enough. I can see that's it.

Show Announcer (67:15)

Wow.

Michael Duncan (67:15)

I mean, the thing is, is that, like, I was going to give it to her anyways to teach you a lesson.

Josh Holmes (67:21)

You should.

Michael Duncan (67:21)

That was an earned win. I have no.

John Ashbrook (67:23)

He's an activist judge.

Michael Duncan (67:24)

Activist judge.

John Ashbrook (67:25)

He should be short listed right there next to Ted Cruz.

Michael Duncan (67:28)

If asked, I'll serve on the Supreme Court and I'll always side with whoever's further to the right.

Josh Holmes (67:35)

I preside on outcomes arguments.

Show Announcer (67:38)

Yeah.

John Ashbrook (67:40)

It's about time.

Josh Holmes (67:41)

It's about time. Fight fire with fire. They say Exactly. Oh, man, that's pretty good. All right, well, congratulations. It's been a long time since I can take a congratulations. I appreciate that. All right, well, listen, when you like and subscribe to the Ruthless Variety program, we read every single one of your comments. And I'm glad that we're gonna continue to do this. We have a live show, by the way, tonight, this very night in Philadelphia at 6pm if you're lucky enough to get a ticket. We're gonna join y' all for a lot of laughs, a lot of good times, and celebrating this great country of ours with our partners at AFP America. 250 kicks off for all of us tonight. All that being said, fellas, I think we did it.

Michael Duncan (68:26)

I think so. Banger of an episode. Gentlemen, thank you so much, Secretary Besson. Thank you so much, Senator Cruz, and thank you to the listeners. Remember, if you have not yet, go to the YouTube and hit that. Subscribe because it's more fun and video. So until next time, minions, keep the faith, hold the line and own the lips. We'll see you Friday. Stay ruthless.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant (68:46)

Sam.