How did we get here? What’s with Holmes ‘stache? - Ruthless Q&A

Summary

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Ruthless Podcast: "How Did We Get Here? What’s with Holmes ‘Stache? - Ruthless Q&A"

Date: December 25, 2025
Hosts: Josh Holmes, Comfortably Smug, Michael Duncan, John Ashbrook

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Episode Overview

On this special Christmas Day episode, the Ruthless crew delivers a festive "present" to their audience: an extended, candid Q&A session. The fellas answer listener-submitted questions, delving into their personal backgrounds, careers, inside jokes, and the lore behind Holmes’ mustache. The vibe is light, irreverent, and chock full of insider political knowledge, blending serious wisdom with the group's signature humor and camaraderie. While policy and political war stories abound, the real treat is the peek behind the curtain into how these voices of the next-generation conservative movement came together.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Christmas Traditions & Gift-Wrapping Challenges

Timestamps: 02:22–04:15

• Smug’s Wrapping Philosophy: Smug can’t wrap gifts and doesn’t use tissue paper. He simply leaves gifts in their original store bags under the tree:

  "I'll get the present, and then whatever the store bag it comes in, I leave it right next to the tree. If you look at it, it's on you." – Comfortably Smug (03:01)

• The guys riff on "being the gift" to their families, with tongue-in-cheek references to putting a bow on themselves or simply celebrating their own continued presence as a present.

2. How the Ruthless Crew Got Here — Bios, Origin Stories, and War Stories

Timestamps: 04:38–28:36

a) John Ashbrook

• Started as a congressional staff intern and driver in Ohio, learning immense lessons at entry level:

  "You can't beat yourself up because you're starting on a low level. That's where everybody starts." – John Ashbrook (06:51)

• Worked in House communications, press secretary for talk radio, eventually moving to Senate Republican leadership comms through difficult times (post-2006 major losses, during the financial crisis).
• Ashbrook became the guy with media relationships, innovating Republican messaging:

  "The way that Holmes always looked at it was like, okay, how do we make this interesting to the audience? Who are we talking to?" – Ashbrook on Holmes’ approach (10:03)

b) Josh Holmes

• Came to the Senate from a campaign background, prized for campaign acumen rather than "typical" legal or policy path.
• Innovated creative messaging (“Cornhusker Kickback” for Obamacare):

  "How about you just call it the Cornhusker Kickback?" – Holmes (14:11)

• Described the grind and impact of making Republican talking points mainstream:

  "There is no other reason why the vernacular of that era came to public consciousness other than John Ashbrook..." – Michael Duncan (12:28)

• Led efforts to recruit, message, and re-elect GOP Senators, notably contributing to the 2014 "comeback."
• Admitted to "faking it until you make it" early on, and drew parallels to learning sports from an ex-player:

  "What I love about watching NFL football is seeing Troy Aikman...he can provide you an analysis...that's instructive in a way that's different than a guy who does television." (47:25)

c) Michael Duncan

• Originated in digital campaigns, early Tea Party organizing, then transitioned to consulting:

  "My job was to make your jobs a living hell." – Duncan on his earlier role at FreedomWorks (23:04)

• Mastered online organization and digital advertising at a time when few understood it, earning trust by rejecting fundraising "scam PACS."
• Hailed for integrity and intellect:

  "If you're not providing the value that you said you were soliciting their money for, you're a crook." – Holmes (26:45)

• Collaborates deeply with the group, appreciated for both research skills and being a "human Google machine." (27:54)

d) Comfortably Smug

• Began at a hedge fund during the 2008 financial crisis, witnessing the chaos firsthand:

  "It's also insane to think...MDs going to ATMs and pulling cash and telling us that, like, well, we don't know if I'll be able to do that tomorrow." (29:59)

• Entered New York Republican politics afterward, running field/data operations for Manhattan GOP campaigns.
• Created and helms Comfortably Smug persona, blending finance, campaign, and Twitter mastery:

  "So few conservatives thought, hey, let's try to be funny about it. Even if it's gallows humor...you gotta find a way to laugh." (36:18)

• Built the Smug identity to anonymously comment without impacting finance career.
• Organized “off the record” operative and journalist happy hours, bringing together key new-media figures.

e) How Ruthless Came Together

• The crew gelled during regular campaign/consulting collaborations, then during COVID lockdowns via daily Zoom happy hours and shared online gambling (horseracing).
• Smug’s meme-savvy irreverence complemented Holmes/Ashbrook’s institutional knowledge and Duncan’s digital chops.
• The podcast was born from this chemistry and a sense of urgency to provide insider analysis with humor.

3. Holmes’ Mustache (The “Porn ‘Stache”)

Timestamps: 50:14–53:18

• The infamous mustache returns by listener demand:

  "He likes it when you bring it because it's just like, here there's DGAF Holmes. And like, we're gonna get some, like, double barrel takes." – Comfortably Smug (50:48)

• Holmes grows it partly to push boundaries with Fox and to annoy his wife, who “hates it”:

  "I just wanna see how far I can get away with something before somebody says something. And like, part of that is my wife, who fucking hates it." – Holmes (51:14)

• Movember attempts from the crew result in good-natured mockery—Ashbrook simply can’t grow one:

  "If I try to grow facial hair, it just doesn't work." – Ashbrook (53:07)

4. "Progrum" and Other Inside Jokes

Timestamps: 53:30–57:51

• The odd pronunciation “progrum” is rooted in regional dialects, college football vernacular (“it’s a good program”), and long-running inside jokes.
• It functions as a shibboleth:

  "When we go out and do shows and...they refer to it as a program, like, oh, you're an OG." – Smug (55:42)

• Watching old Senators with “genteel Southern aristocrat” accents was formative for their style.

5. Day Jobs vs. Full-time Pod

Timestamps: 59:17–60:49

• The team still has demanding “day jobs” in communications, digital, and strategy for political and business clients.
• The podcast remains a passion project and creative outlet:

  "What you hear every single time we do a show is exactly what we'd be talking about if we did not have microphones on." – Ashbrook (60:29)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I'll get the present, and then whatever the store bag it comes in, I leave it right next to the tree. If you look at it, it's on you." – Comfortably Smug (03:01)
• "You can't beat yourself up because you're starting on a low level. That's where everybody starts." – John Ashbrook (06:51)
• "Fake it till you make it." – Multiple hosts on early DC careers (09:09)
• "If you’re not providing the value that you said you were soliciting their money for, you’re a crook." – Holmes on PACs (26:45)
• "I just wanna see how far I can get away with something before somebody says something. And like, part of that is my wife, who fucking hates it." – Holmes on the mustache (51:14)
• "What you hear every single time we do a show is exactly what we'd be talking about if we did not have microphones on." – Ashbrook (60:29)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Gift-wrapping/Christmas banter: 02:22–04:15
• Q&A: Bios and origin stories: 04:38–28:36
• Smug’s background, financial crisis, campaign/consultant crossroads: 29:02–36:38
• Comfortably Smug Twitter phenomenon and Ruthless origin: 36:38–40:30
• Holmes’ campaign/senate origin: 41:25–47:25
• Holmes' mustache lore: 50:14–53:18
• Progrum/inside language: 53:30–57:51
• Pod vs. Day jobs: 59:17–60:49

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Tone & Takeaway

The episode is a masterclass in blending inside political knowledge with broad-appeal humor. The fellows are unapologetically themselves, self-deprecating, insightful, and willing to lift the curtain for listeners (“minions”). They provide the backgrounds that inform their takes with humility and zero pretense, making this Christmas Q&A a quintessential Ruthless experience.

If you want to know why Ruthless feels different—why its humor hits, its analysis resonates, and the guys seem to “know stuff nobody else does”—this is the foundational episode.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Josh Holmes]

And on this Christmas Day, we want to provide a present to you, listener and viewer. And that is all of your questions.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And hopefully some helpful answers.

[John Ashbrook]

Before the policy staff was able to rain on our parade, it was already out.

[Comfortably Smug]

This is why you always ignore policy people. You should stuff them into the lockers. It's like your job is here is you got some ideas. We're going to so many of you agree letters. Oh, I know.

[Michael Duncan]

They all listen. No, listen. I think it goes a long way. I love it. I would keep it.

[Josh Holmes]

What I like about it is when it goes a week too long and you start to look like Jack Sparrow from Pirate of the Caribbean. That's funny. It's very funny. When you got like the soul patch and then also the moustache.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

It's really something.

[Michael Duncan]

I've worked at Coca Cola for 21 years.

[Josh Holmes]

We're delivering Dr. Pepper from our brand.

[John Ashbrook]

New facility in Dallas, Texas.

[Comfortably Smug]

We're really proud to still make Pepsi products in America. You don't need a college degree to.

[Michael Duncan]

Work here, but I put four kids through college by working here.

[Josh Holmes]

This is a great place to work with great people and great American brands.

[Comfortably Smug]

Grocery stores, convenience stores, restaurants, they all depend on us. We deliver great paying jobs.

[Josh Holmes]

We deliver beverages. People love.

[Comfortably Smug]

We deliver for our community.

[Announcer]

Ladies and gentlemen, your attention please.

[Comfortably Smug]

Keep the fate, hold the line and own the lids.

[John Ashbrook]

It's time for our.

[Michael Duncan]

Merry Christmas, everybody. Welcome back to the Ruthless Variety Program. You're either catching this between present opening and all the family gathering stuff, which we all love and we all enjoy, but you do need a couple of minutes for yourself and we're here for you at the Ruthless Variety Program, I'm Josh Holmes, along with comfortably smug Michael Duncan and John Ashbrook. Left to right, across your radio dial. Because we don't take breaks.

[Josh Holmes]

We don't. And on this Christmas Day, we want to provide a present to you, listener and viewer, and that is all of your questions.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And hopefully some helpful answers.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah. So we talked about through the better part of a month how we urge you to just put in random questions that we would answer here on the Variety Program. It's a new thing that we've done at the end of the year, but we've gotten a lot of talk about it. And so we thought, well, it's a good time. It's a good, good time to do something like that.

[John Ashbrook]

It is. And it's a perfect time. If you're listening to this at 5am, if you're one of those dads out there, who's still wrapping your wife's present.

[Josh Holmes]

You got up early building the horrible.

[Comfortably Smug]

So that is so tough. And I'm so grateful that I have a wife who understands. I just can't wrap the thing, and I can't.

[John Ashbrook]

You put it in a bag with the tissue paper.

[Comfortably Smug]

I can't even do that. I can't even do that. I'm not even gonna do that.

[Josh Holmes]

Hold on. You can't put something in a bag?

[Comfortably Smug]

No, because I like. No, no, because, like, there's the. You have to find the tissue paper where that's stored, and then, like, you have to find. And I don't want to do that. So what I do. And this is an approach, gentlemen. Feel free to use. This is, I'll get the present, and then whatever the store. The bag it comes in in the store, I leave it right next to the tree, and I say to her, your gift is in that bag. If you look at it, it's on you. If you don't look at it, if you want the surprise, it's on you.

[John Ashbrook]

What if the name is yours on the bag?

[Comfortably Smug]

I believe in individual freedom. Sometimes it is, sometimes it is. Sometimes it'll say Williams Sonoma, and it's. Anything that they got there, you know, it's William Sonoma. I'm not gonna lie to you.

[Michael Duncan]

This is like Smug's version of don't touch a dish.

[Comfortably Smug]

It's right there by the tree, and you're welcome. If your curiosity overtakes you.

[Michael Duncan]

Hey.

[Comfortably Smug]

I tell her, I was like, if you want, you can enjoy it right now. It's up to you. All the choices are up to you.

[John Ashbrook]

You know, it's very thoughtful of you to get a gift, because I would think that the brooch. I would. Yeah, exactly.

[Comfortably Smug]

You could go full brooch.

[John Ashbrook]

I've definitely had some terrible gifts in my life, but I would think that Smug, you'd wake up in the morning and be like, merry Christmas. I'm still here.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah, that's a. I should.

[Michael Duncan]

Santa will be here all day.

[Josh Holmes]

He just put. He just puts a bow on his head, and he's like, I'm your gift.

[Michael Duncan]

Right, Exactly. Congratulations, everyone.

[Josh Holmes]

Great idea, gentlemen. And then his mom's there in the corner, nodding along.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

She's like, that's exactly.

[Josh Holmes]

This is the gift I've provided to my boy.

[Comfortably Smug]

He's the best.

[Michael Duncan]

So he's also my gift to you.

[Comfortably Smug]

They're not wrong. They're not wrong.

[Michael Duncan]

No. That's why there's always sort of an adversarial relationship with A mother in law for every wife out there that's listening. All right, so we want to get. Let's just jump right into this because a lot of good questions out there. We're going to do a couple of parts of this. We're going to get to one today. But we'll get to the first question. The first question. Will you please give us a short bio on all the guys?

[Comfortably Smug]

This is from Heather Kirby, by the way.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, from Heather Kirby. I'm a latecomer, followed you over from Megyn Kelly. And I don't know where your experience was gained though. I can hear it in everything you say. Love your show. Keep up the great work. All right. So I thought maybe the best way to handle. It's been a while since we've done this and we've had like, you know, a couple million people that have not joined us at the beginning where we described why it is that we're qualified to talk about such things because we actually believe the qualifications in talking about things does provide value. We don't need to trust the experts right smack.

[Comfortably Smug]

We often try not to and encourage you not to. At least I do.

[Michael Duncan]

But it's nice to have a general background in what it is that you're discussing on a day to day basis. So look, I think I should just pose this to all of us because we all come from different places and do different things. Johnny and I have worked together the longest, but that's not where his career began. We started working together I think in January 2007.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, that's right.

[Michael Duncan]

It was like a long time ago now. And that was in the Republican leader's office and some lean times in Republican politics. Also had a financial crisis to navigate. We were both in communications.

[John Ashbrook]

Sure was right on the heels of a huge blowout for Republicans in 2006. We lost majorities in a big way in the House and Senate. But that's actually not where I started. I started out as an intern and a driver for my local congressman in Ohio, of course, Cincinnati of all places.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, weird.

[John Ashbrook]

Worked in the House for a little while and then from the House I worked in talk radio. That was kind of my press secretary for talk radio.

[Comfortably Smug]

The thing is you're such a classy guy, I'd never expect you to be in the House, you know what I mean? Usually that's like just dredges the society. The absolute animal.

[John Ashbrook]

House is a wonderful place. It's the people's House where revenue bill starts.

[Michael Duncan]

In the echelons of where you start in Washington. D.C. a driver in the House is about as tough a spot as you can get into.

[Comfortably Smug]

But he's such a team player.

[John Ashbrook]

Well, the thing is, you come out of college, you have a degree. I have a degree in business, but so I get this degree, and I start driving my congressman around. And for a minute, I was like, wait a minute. I went to college, and now I'm a driver. What am I doing? But over a very short period of time, I was like, I am learning so much more driving and listening and interacting with all these people that he was around than I would ever learn in any other job. And so for that first job, it's always about, what can you get out of it? What can you give back? Totally. You can't beat yourself up because you're starting on a low level. That's where everybody starts.

[Comfortably Smug]

And also for you, that must have been just exciting. Like, Henry Ford had just developed the automobile, and he already figured out how.

[Josh Holmes]

To run these things.

[John Ashbrook]

The Model A. The Model A, it didn't have air conditioning. He wasn't wild about the fact there was no air conditioning in my Model A.

[Michael Duncan]

He walked out front and gave it a crank.

[Comfortably Smug]

Give it a little crank, and you'd get going. Get a lash, bro.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, but that was part of it. You have to learn how to fix an engine and everything that goes along with it. So. So that's where I started. And Josh and I started working together in the Senate in 07, in comms.

[Michael Duncan]

And you were. You were the talk radio guy. And I remember Smash right from the very beginning, had a personal relationship with all the hosts that all they wanted to do was hire him. And we worked together, and I was like, God, we can't fucking lose this guy. He's like the guy that's got all the ability to talk to the talk radio hosts directly, the producers directly, and give them information about what we're working on. Without him, there's, like, no real way to get information flow. And we started working together all the way back then, but we had to make real lemonade out of lemons.

[John Ashbrook]

It was rough. It was rough. George Bush wasn't all that popular in the last two years of his second term. Senate Republicans weren't all that popular with the baseball, but you work your way through it. You learn a hell of a lot in the process.

[Comfortably Smug]

And also, like, when Ashbrook discusses things like, here's the only time you'll get a journal writing a bad thing about Democrat is when another Democrat stands to benefit his understanding of how the media works. And stuff. This is like 20 years he's cultivated these relationships and this understanding of media. So, like, when you say, like, I want to know your experience and how it was, it's like you're getting 20 years of in the trenches wisdom. So I'll joke with them and I'll be like, you're journal buddies. But such a good point, dude, he knows it cold.

[Michael Duncan]

So I'm glad you raised that, because look at an opportunity that we shared was in this office, it was in the Capitol, and neither of us, I don't think, understood how it was the press worked fully in any real way. We were hired to do that, but, like, this was a learning experience. It was like a real bet on the come.

[John Ashbrook]

Fake.

[Josh Holmes]

Fake it till you make it.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

I mean, the thing was, Holmes was the staff director in that operation, and he was a rarity in the United States Senate in that he had extensive campaign background that he brought to the Senate. And when you're dealing with the typical Senate staffers, some of them worked on the campaign and then went to the office, but some of them went to law school, and then they're in LA and then they're in ld. And the ones that go to law school, it takes them a little while to understand the politics because they're thinking in terms of legality and what they learned in law school and applying that. And what. What he learned on the campaign trail is immediately applicable in the chamber in a way that other Senate people don't always know. So there are a lot of senators who are sending out press releases that are like, single spaced, unreadable, uninteresting. And the way that Holmes always looked at it was like, okay, how do we make this interesting to the audience? Who are we talking to? We're talking to real people. They don't believe a single thing that's coming out of our mouths. We have to have. Everything has to be cited, everything has to be perfect. And if it wasn't, if it wasn't creative, it didn't matter because you were just like everybody else. And so I think that's one of the reasons why we stood out, was creativity. The campaign background.

[Comfortably Smug]

You see that DNA in the show?

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

I mean, look, it followed us everywhere. But I remember Smash, very early on, sort of graduated out of the talk radio situation in that it was limiting for him. He always kept it. In fact, I think to this day, keeps great relationships with talk radio people. But he had so much more bandwidth. And I remember thinking, like, dude, we gotta put this guy in front of people. Cause, like, you know, our experience collectively. We joke that we go to parties and like, you can't drag his ass out.

[John Ashbrook]

Nope.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah, everybody knows him.

[Michael Duncan]

We call with the sprunger.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, he's our golden retriever.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

Everybody has something to contribute. You just have to listen.

[Michael Duncan]

So he just goes out like, and if you take him to a cocktail party, he's there to listen to your deepest, darkest secrets.

[Comfortably Smug]

Well, don't give away. Don't give away.

[Michael Duncan]

And then he trade.

[Comfortably Smug]

He gets people to talk.

[Josh Holmes]

No.

[Michael Duncan]

And then he trades.

[John Ashbrook]

Give it away. I do not trade.

[Josh Holmes]

I.

[Comfortably Smug]

Just kidding. I don't trade.

[Michael Duncan]

Now he's a lockbox where he has to be. But I remember thinking like, dude, this guy's got a lot of talent. He's personable as hell. And there was these, what they call the Ohio clock corridor, which is where all the reporters are basically Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday through any given week in the United States Senate. And any TV that you see in your news broadcasts or at that time, any sort of front page news that's printed, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, whatever, was all in this area. So all the reporters were just literally standing in this place all day, every day. An incredible captive audience for somebody who's in pr. It was like, all you gotta do is go and talk to him. And I was like, what the. The best asset we have is this cat because he can go talk to anybody. And like, lo and behold, within, you know, 15 minutes of the suggestion, this guy's out. And all of a sudden, like two thirds of the reporters are like, hey, what's that guy in your office? I want to talk to him again. He seems like a really good guy, down to earth guy built these relationships. We knew we were getting a raw deal out of the mainstream media. They were never like, pro Republican. They were always like, very, very pro Democrat. But if you worked it hard enough, you could sneak something past the goalie every once in a while because of the developed relationship. And that guy literally is the reason why you heard of Obamacare being shitty. He's the reason why you heard the first Obama stimulus funding, turtle tunnels and crazy shit like that. There is no other reason why the vernacular of that era came to public consciousness other than John Ashbrook saying, I.

[Comfortably Smug]

Remember hearing about the. What was it? Cornhusker?

[Josh Holmes]

Cornhead.

[John Ashbrook]

This is where I need to stop you guys, because Holmes is actually an incredible writer. I know that you guys know this. I don't know if anybody listening to this really understands how talented of a writer is he has like you could write novels.

[Josh Holmes]

The only. Only knock on him.

[Michael Duncan]

He's not that good, but okay, I am left handed.

[Comfortably Smug]

He's left hand that good. You created the Cornhusker Kickback.

[John Ashbrook]

Smug is trying to cause problems here because Holmes actually came up with that term. He came up with Cornhusker. It was John Ashbrook, L.A. louisiana.

[Comfortably Smug]

Kirby, if you're listening, I need you to understand. John Ashbrook created kickback.

[John Ashbrook]

Josh came up with celebrate him for it. All of these terms. Guy. The guy's an incredible writer. And so. But we, we started Conveyor to sell.

[Michael Duncan]

Something like conveyor belt of communications, which was like very different than anybody was doing at the time, which we understood that there was a whole bunch of different places that we could go to disseminate messages. You weren't just gonna like put out a press release and hope that people cover it. Where the policy people would come to me and say, hey, dude, there is this massive Medicaid giveaway in this bill that goes directly to Nebraska because they need Ben Nelson's vote. Like, what are we gonna do about it? They're like, we should say this is a, you know, this is a huge medical problem. And 6.

[John Ashbrook]

9 subs yeah, right.

[Michael Duncan]

And I was like, how about you just call it the Cornhusker Kickback? And they're like, does that work?

[John Ashbrook]

They're like, I don't know if we can do that. And Holmes was like, we have to call it this. He sends out an email to every Republican he knows and says, this is called the Cornhusker Kickback. And everybody's like, oh, hell yeah. This is great. This is brilliant. We're definitely doing it. So before the policy staff was able to rain on our parade, it was already out.

[Comfortably Smug]

This is why you always ignore policy people. You should stuff them into the lockers. It's like your job is here is you've got some ideas. We're going to get so many of you agree letters. Oh, I know.

[Michael Duncan]

They all listen to. Yeah, no, but he would give people. Policy people would give me that.

[Comfortably Smug]

Don't listen to them. Why would they all think they're so smart?

[John Ashbrook]

Wow.

[Comfortably Smug]

If you're. If you're the policy guy. Oh, you've got ideas. We hire people for that around here.

[John Ashbrook]

In fairness. In fairness, don't listen to the policy people. In fairness, the policy people in our shop. Absolutely love.

[Michael Duncan]

They did what he was saying they did. They got it immediately what we were trying to do because. But it was new. So they would give me this. I would throw a brand on. I would Hand it to Ashbrook. Next thing I. I know, I'd read about it and then hear it on the evening news because he would go out and sell it to these people. And we did it very early on, like, in the first month or month and a half that we were working. And I was like, holy shit. Like this, actually. I mean, I'm watching, like, ABC at the time that was the leading news broadcast, like, broadcasting our. And with our vernacular behind it, and then getting, like, our senators to, like, yeah, of course. This is a Gordon's cricket pack. And I was like, man, this is. This is game changing.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

And the whole thing then worked through a conveyor belt where ultimately we got to Obamacare and everything else.

[Josh Holmes]

Did that feel like a drug, by the way?

[Michael Duncan]

Yes.

[John Ashbrook]

It's a lot of fun.

[Michael Duncan]

And we're really young, dude.

[Josh Holmes]

No, I get it.

[Comfortably Smug]

But, like.

[Josh Holmes]

Like, that is, you know, because you.

[Michael Duncan]

Never think you can make a difference.

[Josh Holmes]

There's so many people, young people I know who are listening to this or watching it on YouTube, who are working on Capitol Hill, and they're grinding out every single day.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

You know, being like, what am I doing? And I'm writing another thing, and where am I gonna see the change in what I'm doing every single day that I came here to make a difference?

[Michael Duncan]

Yep. Yep.

[Josh Holmes]

Like, that had to feel.

[Michael Duncan]

No, it was incredible because it was, like, your first real entree into that. And, you know, the way it worked through the years is we came up with all kinds of different gimmicks for different shit, and we're able to start getting a foothold and start planning the Republican comeback in some ways. And both of us left the Senate at some point to go work on campaigns to come back to do it, because we were just trying to help the whole team.

[Josh Holmes]

Right.

[Michael Duncan]

But Smash was, like, the most selfless of any of them. And then he had a. He had a young family of which he was incredibly attentive to, but. But also knew, like, the job was. This is not a job you take for the paycheck. Right. And this was, I think, a bonding moment where, you know, he and I were at, like, 3am during the Obamacare debates, like, sitting there watching every single second of it in the hopes that we would find one single chink in the armor, we could take that down. And that's, like, all we did. We knew nobody was going to outwork us. And Smash was, like, the driving energy behind all of that, like, never.

[Josh Holmes]

And you guys got damn well close. I mean, Scott Brown wins in in Massachusetts. And the world is turned upside down. Yeah, it was, you know, one of the seminal moments this century of politics.

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[Michael Duncan]

I mean, it's certainly memorable for us. Yeah. But, you know, then we go back into a campaign context where we want to recover a Senate Republican majority for the first time since, what, 05 in 2014. And Johnny, @ the time had about halfway through that cycle, moved his family back to Cincinnati because he's got three really young.

[John Ashbrook]

Girls.

[Michael Duncan]

Right. And family around him and was struggling with stuff that, like, all of us would crumble over. But he is not letting anybody into any of that. He's just, like, driving forward, trying to do his job. So he's commuting back and.

[Josh Holmes]

Forth. How many tickets did you.

[Comfortably Smug]

Get? He likes to drive fast on those trips. That's.

[John Ashbrook]

Insane. I have had my share of tickets on those trips. Fortunately, I don't. Maybe I got.

[Comfortably Smug]

One. Dude.

[Michael Duncan]

Cincinnati. I was in the car when you got a reckless.

[John Ashbrook]

Driver. Yeah, we.

[Announcer]

Did. We.

[John Ashbrook]

Did. This was. This was 08. This was 08. I was going way too fast. We were on our way back and it was like, oh, buddy, I just got. We gotta. I gotta get home. I gotta get.

[Michael Duncan]

Home. He's like, they tell me I'm gonna lose my.

[John Ashbrook]

License. Yeah, it happened. That's what happens when you drive too.

[Michael Duncan]

Fast. Yeah, so. But like, it parlays itself into 2014, which, of course was kind of a seminal moment for all of us in that we had, you know, both primary politics and, you know, the left coming after you full force. And we tried to figure it out as best we can. And meanwhile, Smash is doing, like, the full commute back and forth. He's the first guy that would call me in the morning, the last guy I talk to every night. He's just like, all in on all of it. But we figure we're like light handed. Like, we don't know exactly everything there is to know about information flow in this era. And we noticed that there was some shit that was happening online that was new. It was a total novel concept. There was a couple of groups that were involved that were incredibly proficient at organizing opposition to certain things, but then also incredibly proficient at pushing information that we deemed disinformation. And we wanted to know how we, how we could figure this out. So we studied a lot about it and we came to the conclusion that there was one asshole that worked over at FreedomWorks who was like chief amongst.

[Josh Holmes]

Them.

[Michael Duncan]

Okay. At all this. And his name was Michael Duncan.

[Comfortably Smug]

Back when he was cool doing.

[Josh Holmes]

Disinformation. Yeah, I'm still doing.

[John Ashbrook]

It. Hell.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah. Hell.

[Michael Duncan]

Yes. And his. But, but he was, he was young, he was out of school. He was, he was working his ass off, but had like a, a natural understanding of the Internet in a way that didn't exist in politics. I'm not talking right and left. I'm talking about politics in.

[Comfortably Smug]

General. What year was.

[John Ashbrook]

This? This is like, this was at the tea. In the onset of the Tea.

[Josh Holmes]

Party. So I'd like to think I'm super smart, but this guy was like 20. I also had kids. He's a baby. I also just got kind of lucky because, you know, I graduated during the financial crisis and you know, was working at Freedom Works and it was the sort of rise of the Tea Party movement. And you remember out of that 2008 Obama campaign, there was that Sasha Eisenberg book, the Victory.

[Comfortably Smug]

Lab. Victory.

[Michael Duncan]

Lab.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. And so there was a lot of interest, I think, on the right in conservative politics and like, how do we win the battle.

[John Ashbrook]

Online?

[Josh Holmes]

Right. And so here I am, like, fresh out of.

[Michael Duncan]

College. Hey, that's what I.

[Josh Holmes]

Do.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And. But it's, it's just like you guys were talking about earlier about faking it till you make it. Right. It's like I just, I saw that opportunity and I was like, I need to learn everything about how this works in these days. We're talking like, you know.

[Michael Duncan]

2010.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. The best you could do was like buying a right rail ad on Facebook. They had just started allowing advertising on the platform. You were talking very rudimentary tactics in this thing. But because I just sort of by happenstance at the right time was, was there when nobody knew how it worked. Like you had whatever budget you.

[Michael Duncan]

Wanted.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. And, and, and I was a kid right out of school and it was like, you, you. If it's working. The budget is.

[Michael Duncan]

Unlimited. Yeah, well, and that's the thing, right. Is that it was so foreign to everybody in the space that if it actually worked, people were like, my God, this man is a magician.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. And so, I mean, in those days, my job was to make your jobs a living hell.

[Michael Duncan]

Right? Yes, it.

[Josh Holmes]

Was. It was, you know, and you.

[Michael Duncan]

Did an adequate job at.

[Josh Holmes]

All. I enjoyed it.

[John Ashbrook]

Thoroughly. Handing boxes of tea to everybody, throwing it.

[Josh Holmes]

Overboard. Yeah. But during that moment in time, as all these people wanted to get involved in politics for the first time, the only way to scale services to those people was the Internet. Like, you couldn't do this the old fashioned way with patch through calls or teletown hall meetings. These people wanted information. They wanted to know how to show up at a town hall meeting and ask their congressman about Obamacare and things like that. And the only way to scale that was the Internet. And that's where me and many others came in. And then I went onto the.

[Michael Duncan]

Consulting spot and that's where we find you. As soon as you got into the consulting spot, we're like, that's the guy. That's the guy. And the reason. Smug, you'll appreciate the. The reason why he's. That's the guy is not only because we knew he was doing all this shit that was like fucking up our world, but also organizing a larger good, which was the conservative movement, was that he was absolutely the only digital consultant that I'd ever met and have met to this day. Would I be interested in walking into a C suite. There is not a single person that I've encountered to this day. In 15 years of the digital era, where you're comfortable sitting next to like a CEO of a major company and being like, this is my partner. He deals with digital because usually, like, they'd be like, oh, really? Tell.

[Comfortably Smug]

Me. It's like a big short. They're like, this is my quant. And it's like the guy who you just don't.

[Michael Duncan]

Talk. Do not talk to him. Yeah, no, no. The quantity be like, oh, he's Asian. And that was a qualification. Like, for this guy, it'd be like, look at him. And.

[Josh Holmes]

There'S. There's a few. I would say there are a.

[Comfortably Smug]

Few. There's no others. Really. A lot of these digital guys are.

[Michael Duncan]

Weirdos. Here's.

[Comfortably Smug]

One. I don't care for. A lot of the digital guys everyone knows, especially those who work, it's like, oh, here's the digital guy. All right, Someone give him a Rubik's Cube. He can solve it really fast. Here's one of the.

[Josh Holmes]

Things. One other thing I want to say, especially for young people who are coming up in their careers, because you have various inflection points when you're young and you're trying to figure out what you're going to do in your life and what's my next thing and where does this position me to leapfrog to the next thing or whatever. And everybody has that anxiety as they're coming up in their career. And, you know, once I got on the consulting side and I worked with a bunch of different campaigns and things and different consultants and people, you know, what I appreciated about John and Josh is not only that I liked them, but that there was a professional integrity to the way that these guys operated that I really gravitated towards. And, you know, we. After, you know, we worked together, in 2014, we started consulting firm, you know, ourselves in Cavalry. And my one piece of advice to every young person out there, you know.

[Comfortably Smug]

Who'S.

[Josh Holmes]

Who's. Who's looking to go out on their own or find people who they'd like to work with, is find people who you want to learn from. Find people who can add value to your life in an area you're deficient or you don't know about, and that you can make them better and they can make you better, and the sum will always be greater than the parts in a professional relationship in that way. And that's the way we've always worked.

[Michael Duncan]

Together. Yeah. Yep. And there was a professional integrity to it where you could see Duncan coming out of a world that after he sort of departed into our world, you could see a real lack of integrity in a lot of different ways. Like, scam packs became a big thing.

[John Ashbrook]

Then.

[Michael Duncan]

Right. A lot of. Of people that were contemporaries of his in the early days of the Internet, like, got seduced by that, because you could go out and try to raise money for something that actually didn't exist, but the cause was sufficient enough where people wanted to contribute money to it, and they just kept doing it over and over again. And, like, Duncan was allergic to that idea. If you're not providing the value that you said you were soliciting their money for, you're a crook. And, like, this is the early days of the Internet, when this is just becoming a big part of American politics, and you could watch the integrity behind what it is that he was doing. And you could look at some of these things, were like, wow, these people are raising a ton of money. And he's like, yeah, I'll tell you why they're raising a lot of money. And then you explain it and you realize it's all kind of a.

[Josh Holmes]

Scam. Let's dig through the FEC.

[Michael Duncan]

Report. You know, so this guy had. He had just like incredible integrity about him in an era where that there wasn't a lot to go around, right? And then the other piece of it is, fucking guy is smart as shit, right? Which is it has nothing to do with the Internet. Like, you can ask him about.

[John Ashbrook]

English lit, human Google.

[Josh Holmes]

Machine.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah. And so like, and that was kind of the professional development, how we ultimately ended up to be doing what we're doing is that like, like you push the button on Duncan and he's like, well, let me explain it for you, you know, and. And like, we've been around a lot of smart people. So, like, if he's blowing up our skirt, that's pretty fucking.

[Josh Holmes]

Smart. I can't take credit for that. I credit Dale.

[Comfortably Smug]

Duncan. Dale.

[Michael Duncan]

Duncan. And we credit Dale. We don't credit you for.

[Josh Holmes]

This. That's my.

[Michael Duncan]

Father. For those who don't know, it's Dale Duncan. No question about it. Likes, the.

[Josh Holmes]

Likes. Yeah, he's. He's an incredible.

[Michael Duncan]

Man. He's just such a great individual. I mean, I've just come to fall in love with your family and, and everything else. And then we meet this.

[Comfortably Smug]

Guy. So can. Real quick, can I get question one on the screen again? The first sentence is. Will you please give us a short bio on all the. So 27 minutes later, I will be more than happy to answer the question as asked. So I.

[Michael Duncan]

Started. No, you're not doing it. No, no, no, that's not what we're doing.

[John Ashbrook]

Here. This is Christmas Day for.

[Michael Duncan]

Christmas. This is Christmas Day. People want to know a little bit about the.

[Josh Holmes]

Fellas. It's about.

[Michael Duncan]

Brotherhood. Yeah.

[Comfortably Smug]

Dude. So it's about Q and A. So, question answered. So my professional career at a hedge fund in New York City. A friend ran for office in New York City. I started off helping out, but then I eventually came to just take the reins of the whole thing. We had a tremendous amount of success there. And slowly, bit by bit, essentially I was advising, running the field program for running the data for every Republican candidate on the island of Manhattan very quickly. I was shocked by how quickly that happened. But I eventually started having these, like, off the record meetings in New York city and in D.C. where I would invite.

[Michael Duncan]

Operatives. See, you're shortchanging yourself on all of this. I mean, look. Yes, that's your.

[John Ashbrook]

Resume.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah. And that was a stop. Please give us a short.

[Michael Duncan]

Bio. Stop. That's your.

[Comfortably Smug]

Resume. And Heather, I.

[Michael Duncan]

Tried. Here's the Heather. You have to bear with us. But the genius of comfortably Smug is that its background in finance happened right about the time that the entire world economy.

[Comfortably Smug]

Collapsed. And it's also insane to think. And we learned this, that, like, while I was sitting at, like, a Bloomberg terminal watching the economy, like, wealth evaporated, we had managing directors going to ATMs and pulling cash and telling us that, like, well, we don't know if I'll be able to do that tomorrow. And I was like, that feels sticky. This is a pretty tough place to.

[John Ashbrook]

Be. And you were, what about my 401k.

[Comfortably Smug]

Match? It's all gone. Like, you're not. We'd already come to terms with.

[Michael Duncan]

Like, 401k is now.

[Comfortably Smug]

Zero.

[Michael Duncan]

Right. I remember the index for our TSP funds, which were like the Senate version of a 401k, were indexed to Lehman Brothers. And I look up at the screen, it's like, Lehman brothers.

[Josh Holmes]

Collapses. It's.

[Michael Duncan]

Zero. And I'm looking at my 401k being like, hey, it's indexed to that.

[Josh Holmes]

Thing. Smug's at the Bloomberg terminal. And you have to watch Hank Paulson walk in and out of the.

[Comfortably Smug]

Room. Yeah, he's in the room at the same.

[Michael Duncan]

Time. Yeah. No, I mean, that was literally the thing we've reminisced about a lot is that, like, Asprick and I's job was to try to corral press during an inherently chaotic.

[Comfortably Smug]

Time. Like, I remember when the vote went down in Congress and we in the office screamed. We're like, they really do not get. They don't understand. We will not have an economy next year, next week. We will not have transactions working at stores next week. Meanwhile, you're in the building being like, what.

[Michael Duncan]

Is. I remember our policy guy, Rohit, was running back and forth between the Speaker's office, where all the politicians had sort of come around a conference room table in Nancy Pelosi's office with Ben Bernanke, who was the Fed chair at the time, and then Paulson, who was the Treasury Secretary, who was the treasury secretary, was in a office by himself in a conference room. I think it was the Boehner Suite, or like, an extension of it. And our job was to basically try to facilitate, through a sea of press, a back and forth between what Paulson was working on and what these people were talking about as the time is ticking. And Bernanke at the time said, if you don't get this done by Monday, you have no economy. And I walk in, and I'll never forget one of our policy guys, good friend of the program, is standing there, arms crossed, like, just shaking his head. And I look in, and I'm like, oh, my God. And this is a scary time. And I take a step forward, and I look, and Hank Paulson is sitting there in a shirt, no ties, Ties off, the coat's off, the shirt's rolled up above both elbows. He's sweating like a whore in church. And he's handwriting what his directive was, which is, Remember now, dumb. This is. But they were like, the bill should be one page. As if the page numbers mattered to save the American economy. But remember, that was the thing at the time. They were like, it can't be complicated. It needs to be one page. So he's handwriting this thing and then handing it to the policy staff, being like, does this do it? And then they'd have to run over. And I remember standing there thinking, like, this is the end. This is way scarier than.

[Comfortably Smug]

People. People bring up.08 all the time. And they're like, is this another. Oh, is this a bubble? I go, people have short.

[Michael Duncan]

Memories. They.

[Comfortably Smug]

Do. That was, like, terrifying. Every anyone has ever seen and God willing, we'll ever see again. Because it really was. You saw the cliff, and it was.

[Michael Duncan]

Over. Over, yeah, totally. But the combination of your experience in that era and then getting into campaign politics in an. A very blue place, like, you gotta be pretty creative to figure out how to get attention for things. And, like, you'd started working on a whole bunch of different things that are exploring the recesses of the online culture. And at some point in your resume, Comfortably Smug arises. And when it does, I cannot emphasize enough to the people who are listening how quickly it took over conservative politics. Like, Twitter was at a very nascent stage, and there was only a few, like, big accounts, and there was only one that drove a conservative conversation in any real way, because it was. It had levity, it had.

[Josh Holmes]

Irreverence. It's like that scene in Scarface when Push it to a Limit starts.

[Comfortably Smug]

Playing, and it's like, da, da da.

[Michael Duncan]

Da da da da da da, da, da.

[Josh Holmes]

Da. Like, that's what it was like when Comfortably Smug hit the.

[John Ashbrook]

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[Michael Duncan]

[e-mail] so, like, as you start this thing, like, do you get it at that point or are you just having.

[Comfortably Smug]

Fun? So that's the thing is even the genesis of the name. So it's. It's a Pink Floyd, comfortably known reference. But I'm at. I'm still at the hedge fund when I started this account. And one of the things when you're at the hedge fund is like, if I were to tweet, like, I don't like Diet Coke, and then an investor could be like, but your fund is long Coca Cola. Are you, like, trying to do it? So I like to have it, like, completely separated from me as a person of, like, it's a fake entity, comfortably smuggle person who doesn't even exist. And my opinion is what I'm thinking. So that's actually the genesis of where it came from. And then, like, when I really started engaging in politics, one of the things, I mean, it's like what we've said on the show is that, like, so few conservatives thought, hey, let's try to be funny about it. Even if it's gallows humor, even if things are dire, you gotta find a way to laugh. And very quickly, like, a lot of operatives in the know would be like, hey, this is hilarious. And also this exchange of information, if they'd be like, no journal is willing to run with this information. We found this out about a Dem. Could you put this out there? And I'd be like, sure, no.

[John Ashbrook]

Problem. Sometimes it's coming from another.

[Comfortably Smug]

Dem. Yeah, that's the thing. So, like, when there was like a Democrat primary, they'd be like, hey, would you put this out there? Because they'll be like, oh, no, it's the evil Republicans. I was like, if you want me to hit a dam with some info, I'm more than happy to. So, like, it took.

[John Ashbrook]

Off. So smug is a journo. And I feel like that's part.

[Michael Duncan]

Of what was so amazing about this, is that we started doing our job beginning in that kind of 2014 cycle, in that all of news and information was broken on Twitter far before their websites and all the things could ever deal with it. And so it became an important echo system to us. And so we started watching what Smug was up to, laughing our asses off. But we. Because. Because we had the same sense of humor. And at the time, a whole bunch of people thought I was.

[Comfortably Smug]

You. And occasionally ChatGPT still.

[Michael Duncan]

Does. It's the funniest thing, because he had the same sense of hue, the irreverent sense of you making fun of stuff that we found hilarious. And so this kind of went back and forth with, like, a couple of cycles as we're sharing information. I think we DM a couple of times or whatever. And then occasionally, as you were saying, you have these happy hours that you started to organize because journalists found the same kind of power that we did in the operative world, and that if you could get a relationship with these big accounts and have a serious, like, give and take, that the boost that you would get online for what they were reporting was massive. And this guy had the biggest account of anybody. And so you would organize these things in New York and D.C. and.

[Comfortably Smug]

The D.C. one, one of them that I organized, I was like, okay, these guys are hilarious. Like, what you guys have been doing, like, massacring Democrats. Because that was still an era when you guys were operating, when the 99% of Republicans were still stuffy about it. Yeah. And you guys are like, let's run with cocaine Mitch. Or like, what rhymes with Grimes? You know, like, no one tried that. And it was like a meme song about it. Like, no one's doing this. So. So I invite these guys to a D.C. happy hour, and right off the bat, I mean, we hit it off where it was just like. It was like, I'd known these guys for 20 years. We're throwing back drinks, having a great time, and coincidentally enough, your first son, Duncan, is born that night. So Duncan diploma. He's like, my wife's about to deliver. I'm going with.

[Michael Duncan]

Like. I was, like, just stumbling sideways out for the birth of his.

[Comfortably Smug]

Son. This is a fortuitous.

[Josh Holmes]

Beginning. I drank some.

[Michael Duncan]

Coffee. Yeah, you had to have. I mean, there's no other way to get through it, but it was.

[Comfortably Smug]

A fortuitous start to what we have.

[Michael Duncan]

Here. Yeah. I mean, that was a line of demarcation. And, of course, we had the same Kind of idea that ultimately we exchanged ideas of the same exact plan on what we wanted to do to make it ruthless. And look, I think a big part of it is from meeting smug and Smug meeting all of us, is that we understood each other in a way that, you know, when you just, like, every once in a while run into somebody that feels like you've known them for 20 years and you start laughing about the same things and you notice the same things and you have different perspectives on it, but it's. You know, it kind of works. And then Covid.

[John Ashbrook]

Hit.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah. Where we all locked in our homes. And you were in New York City at the time. We were in dc. Both places wouldn't let you leave the fucking house. Like, we wanted to go to work, we couldn't. They literally locked down the whole place. So we would start a happy hour at the end of every day by.

[Comfortably Smug]

Zoom. By.

[Michael Duncan]

Zoom. Just to recover what was left of our mental health throughout the course of the day. And we were bet on horse.

[Comfortably Smug]

Racing because, like, that was a sport that was still happening.

[Michael Duncan]

Amazing. Yeah. Because it was the only one that was on television. And we'd pour a bourbon and talk shit. And we were like, you know what we were talking about with a media company? I think this is it. I think this is it. And that's what we've got. And that's what we've got. So, you know, look, I mean, that is the full panoply, I can tell you. I grew up in Minnesota. I saw my first campaign, which is probably the most interesting part of my entire story. I came out for an internship on 911 11, like a month. Like three weeks before 911 had. I had no idea what I was going to do with my life. I was the furthest thing from a college Republican. Furthest thing, not particularly political. My family was interested in politics. I consumed a ton of news when I was young, but I wasn't like, an advocate in any real way. I just want to, like, get.

[Comfortably Smug]

Drunk. And so you started. You started your internship. You're at the Capitol Hill when Niall happens. And like. Like, they're evacuating everything. And like, the chaos of that day, you were there for.

[Michael Duncan]

That. Yeah, so I was actually. I was up. I was a few blocks from where we are right now. I wasn't actually in the. In the Capitol, but they evacuated.

[Comfortably Smug]

Every. It was like, where do you go? We were running up to you. We were flying into, like, Pentagon and. And they were like, the next one might be headed for the White House. The next One might be headed for the Capitol.

[Michael Duncan]

Like. Yeah. I mean, I remember standing on the top of a. Of a building and looking out and seeing the Pentagon on fire. And then they evacuated us and we got down and nobody was going to take the subway at that point. So everybody's just running straight up Connecticut. And I was like, Jesus, what? I mean, I'm 20 years old. I don't know what the hell I'm.

[Comfortably Smug]

Doing. Like, the end of the.

[Michael Duncan]

World. So, you know, all of that goes into my first campaign because I decide through that whole experience, I'm like, now this is like, I'm engaged now. And this is like a formative experience where I can understand and want to be a part of something. And so I went to work on a campaign in Minnesota for Homestayers guy Norm Coleman, which was a really frustrating campaign. It's super frustrating. You go to college and they're like, hey, pound rebar into flip frozen.

[Josh Holmes]

Earth.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah. And put up a yard sign. And I'm like, jesus, this is.

[Josh Holmes]

Terrible. Yeah, it's just you and a pickup truck and a bunch of.

[Michael Duncan]

Rebar. That's it. Right. But I figured I was like, look, if I can do this better than everybody else, somebody will recognize.

[John Ashbrook]

It. Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

Right. You know, so I worked all day at night doing that stuff, like putting up the signs and going to talk to random strangers and delivering manning the parades and all that stuff. Because again, it wasn't like I enjoyed any of it. I didn't. I hated every single.

[Comfortably Smug]

Campaign. Field builds.

[John Ashbrook]

Integrity. It.

[Comfortably Smug]

Does. Knocking doors gives you that backbone, right? And some people who've done.

[Michael Duncan]

Field. Some people were built for it. I really wasn't. I had to force it. You know what I mean? But I knew that if I did it better than anybody else, that, like, people would have to recognize it's.

[Comfortably Smug]

Cause the policy kids will show up to the phone bank and like, I'm ready to make calls. Get your ass out knocking doors. I'm.

[Michael Duncan]

Policy. And it's like 5 degrees, by the.

[Josh Holmes]

Way. Why are the policy people getting so many.

[Comfortably Smug]

Blocks? They would show up and they'd be like, I'm ready to phone bank. And I'm like, I like having the elderly folks phone bank go knock some goddamn.

[Michael Duncan]

Doors. So that first campaign, the incumbent senator, a guy named Paul Wellstone, died 13 days before the election in a plane crash. I was with him the previous week at a debate with Norm Coleman, where in the area that I was staffing, got to know him and his staffer, who ultimately also perished in the thing and like, it all of a sudden gets real real for somebody, for a young kid at that point where it's like, you know, you didn't sign up for a blood sport. It's not like you signed up to be a Marine or something like Wolf, where you know what it is that you're getting yourself into. Like, all of a sudden, this got super real for me. And, you know, over the course of 13 days, you have all kinds of crazy, crazy stuff, and Coleman ends up winning the damn thing. Someday I'll get into the larger story about that, which was fantastic, but that's how I get to D.C. and. But I don't know what I'm doing. Let's do some policy.

[Josh Holmes]

Stuff. I hate.

[Michael Duncan]

It. Healthcare policy, believe it or not. And, like, it was awful. And I couldn't figure out why. Nobody was talking about the things that were going to happen. Everybody was talking about the things that were never going to happen. I was like, the Senate sucks. I got to get out of.

[Josh Holmes]

Here. And sort of clip that. Senate sucks. Josh.

[Michael Duncan]

Holmes. I was like, I just. I didn't get it. I really didn't get it. And then I. So I went back on the campaign trail, ended up getting linked up with the RNC when Ken Melman, fresh off of a victory for President Bush in 2004, was running the joint. And I started. They asked me if I want. Do you write speeches? I'd never written a fucking speech in my entire life. Not a word of a.

[John Ashbrook]

Speech. Could have fooled.

[Michael Duncan]

Everybody. And I was like, yes, I do, with total confidence. Yes, I am a.

[Comfortably Smug]

Speechwriter. That's a job interview tip from Josh Holmes to all the young folks out.

[Michael Duncan]

There. Yeah, well, it lasted about two months. And they were like, you suck. You don't know anything. Maybe he's better at, like, the.

[John Ashbrook]

Press thing, probably because you were writing interesting stuff and they weren't. What they wanted was talking points that fit what everybody else in the administration was saying, rather than something it.

[Michael Duncan]

Was fairly formulaic in that.

[John Ashbrook]

Era. I'm not really that.

[Michael Duncan]

Right. You know, it was like we said this and those people said that. It's like those contrast ads that you see, those terrible political ads where.

[John Ashbrook]

It'S like, this stands out and that's bad. Like, that was that. That was the.

[Michael Duncan]

Era. That was the era. But anyway, so it didn't work. And then I started doing the comms and then ended up. Melman introduced me to McConnell, which is how I met Johnny. And we did all of that until we got to Calvary and, you know, I think from 2011, 12 through, you know, 2020, the larger part of my responsibility was trying to elect as many Senate Republicans as I could and trying to create the conditions as best I could to try to get as many good candidates going, recruiting people, but also trying to create messaging and whatnot that was advantageous. And of course, we got over the finish line in 2014, which is kind of like the highlight of my. My backdrop, which is, you know, a part of, of all of our histories, really. And then, you know, thought we would parlay everything we learned into this larger discussion. And it's like a weird thing to be in this line of work now. You know, I mean, it's a fun turn of events to be on this end of the microphone after so much on the other end. And I realized that we only got to one question. I do. But I feel like we owed it to people to give a full. We haven't done it. I mean, we signed a Fox deal and immediately just continued. And nobody who would have joined us has really gotten that.

[Josh Holmes]

Update. Yeah, we didn't. We didn't just, like, pick up some microphones and say we have some thoughts on politics in America. It's informed by many years of having actually done the thing. And the way I always describe it to people is what I love about watching something like NFL football is seeing Troy Aikman there, a guy who actually played the sport and he was a quarterback, and so he can provide you an analysis into the discourse of watching a game that's instructive in a way that's different than a guy who does television for a living. There's nothing wrong with that. And there's room in the ecosystem of all of conservative media and commentating for all of it. But I think that's what motivate me and many of.

[Michael Duncan]

Us. Yeah. I mean, the perfect example of that is like, you wonder a couple years ago why I got so worked up about the idea that you don't have a role to choose candidates that represent your party in elections throughout the country. I think Rick Scott was the NRSC chairman at the time, and they were basically like, nope, it's not the role. We don't. We don't do any of that. We'll let everybody decide and let the chips fall where they may. The reason for that is the Troy Aikman type experience, which is, I did that. I watched it in 2010, I watched it in 2012, and when I got, you know, my hands in it, we changed the business model in 2014. It was the first time in eight years that Republicans actually fucking won anything. You know, and so it wasn't like an ideological.

[Comfortably Smug]

Opinion. And then also, as we explained on the show, what the expertise brings you is that the Democrats were like, well, that leaves a vacuum for us to try to help the worst person in the Republican primary win so then we can beat him in the.

[John Ashbrook]

General.

[Michael Duncan]

Right. I mean, so that's just like. That's one little piece. But it's in everything we.

[Comfortably Smug]

Do. It's the knowledge that's been gained that then is a gift to you, dear.

[Michael Duncan]

Listener. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, that's the backdrop of who we are. And listen, I know we've got dozens of questions. We're gonna drum through a bunch of them in the next couple of deals that we do. But we felt an obligation to do an extended version on this very question. More after.

[John Ashbrook]

This. Phallus. That was an incredible opener. I feel like people learned a little bit more about. They may not have already known, but we have some more questions to get to today. One in particular. Yeah, one in particular I'd like to read to you guys. Comes from Ford Baker Ford writes. The biggest development in the show is the on again, off again status of the Josh Holmes porn.

[Michael Duncan]

Staff.

[John Ashbrook]

Amazing. My question is, what precedes the shave? An intervention from the rest of the crew? A cease and desist from Fox? Or Mrs. Holmes returning from a trip to her mother's? Question two, can I get it introduced by the voice? There you go for.

[Comfortably Smug]

It. Got the whole.

[Michael Duncan]

Thing. First of all, I'm a.

[Comfortably Smug]

Man. I want to say, I not only endorse it, it is so.

[Michael Duncan]

Great. He likes it when you bring.

[Comfortably Smug]

It because it's just like, here there's DGAF Holmes. And like, we're gonna get some, like, double barrel takes. Cause he's already in the.

[Michael Duncan]

Zone. Yeah, it kinda. Look, I like screwing around with that, but I do have a little bit of an ulterior motive at least lately. And then I just wanna see how far I can get away with something before somebody says something. And like, part of that is my wife, who fucking hates it. I mean, she's like, that's always.

[Comfortably Smug]

The best reason to do.

[Michael Duncan]

Something. Yeah. She's like, what are. What is that? And I did it for a Christmas picture this year. And she was just horrified. Hated every minute. She's like, you need to shave that thing every day. You need to shave. That's horrible. But then also, I was kind of curious about the new Fox.

[John Ashbrook]

Contract.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. What could you get away with.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, because I always used to shave every time. I would go on Fox every time. Just because I was like, I.

[Comfortably Smug]

Respect. I forgot about.

[Michael Duncan]

That. And do.

[Comfortably Smug]

Whatever. We're doing all those. You're doing all these.

[Michael Duncan]

Hits. Yeah. And I was like, Bear's like.

[Comfortably Smug]

What the fuck is on your.

[Michael Duncan]

Face? No, totally. But I want. I wanted to figure out whether or not there was a system in place, some kind of a quality control.

[Josh Holmes]

Measure. You thought maybe you'd get an.

[Comfortably Smug]

Email.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah. Where somebody would be like, dude, what is.

[John Ashbrook]

That? Well, isn't it also the truth.

[Josh Holmes]

That turns out there's.

[John Ashbrook]

Not. Listen, Bruh's.

[Comfortably Smug]

Like. And tonight we bring you Dirk.

[Josh Holmes]

Diggler. Let's hear.

[Comfortably Smug]

It. Boogie Nights. What's your thoughts on.

[John Ashbrook]

That? Isn't it also the truth that every once in a while when you have the mustache, people will come up to you on the street. Street. And ask if they can buy a reverse mortgage from.

[Michael Duncan]

You. Yeah, and I'm happy to sell them. I'm happy to sell them. No, listen, I think it goes a long way. I love it. I. I would keep.

[Josh Holmes]

It. What I like about it is when it goes a week too long and you start to look like Jack Sparrow from Pirate of the Caribbean. That's funny. It's very funny. When you got, like, the soul patch and then also the.

[Michael Duncan]

Mustache. Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. It's really something. And I also remember. Do you remember, like, the first year when we did.

[John Ashbrook]

Movember? Oh.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah. Oh.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And. And the best story about that.

[Michael Duncan]

Is Smash, who couldn't.

[Josh Holmes]

Grow. And he looked like a Smash, Like a.

[John Ashbrook]

Pedicle. I can't do.

[Michael Duncan]

It. No, honestly, you would have registered him and kept him 50. 50 yards.

[John Ashbrook]

From. You would have. I mean, if I try to grow facial hair, it just doesn't.

[Michael Duncan]

Work. It.

[John Ashbrook]

Doesn'T.

[Comfortably Smug]

Genetics. Yeah. Well, if I try, it's tougher to BO a plane.

[Michael Duncan]

So. Especially this in these trying.

[Josh Holmes]

Times. It's very, very.

[Michael Duncan]

Funny. I love the question. All right, so the next question comes from Eric Leech. Eric writes, where did Grum from program come.

[John Ashbrook]

From? Yes. I love this.

[Josh Holmes]

Question. Great.

[Michael Duncan]

Question. And it's complicated because it's in part, it is our appreciation of affectations around this country. We've always had a great appreciation for different regional.

[Josh Holmes]

Dialects. Tuesday.

[Michael Duncan]

Thursday. Right. I mean, I worked with a guy who. This like, Southern guy who would always say, what guy? What kind of call? We got a call on Thursday. Is it Monday.

[Josh Holmes]

Call? What is.

[Michael Duncan]

It? Tuesday call? And I've just adopted it. It's just because I was like, I can't believe somebody said as D.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah. What's funny? So I've. For the first time, no one's spoiled this for me. I. I started watching that series Deadwood. Right. And so, like, in one of the first episodes, they have this, like, family of settlers from Minnesota who are deciding to go back. And they try talking to them, and they're, like, going back to Minnesota. And I was like, so. So it never changed. Everyone still. I was like, when we go hang out with Holmes buddies, when we go to Minnesota, everyone's still, to this day. And the first thing is I was like, so that's our program and all. It's this Midwest.

[Michael Duncan]

Affectation. It is. And we appreciate all of them. But in terms of program, it's also just. It's weird, right? I mean, it's different. It's not program. It's all. And the second is a college football element to it where you get those Southern SEC schools that, since I was a child, refer to their football team as a program. Program always. And, like, we. There's a big sports.

[Josh Holmes]

Influence. Oh, yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

100%. And you guys, like, immediately were all over the idea. I mean, I don't even think we had to say anything about it. I think it was just like, it's.

[Josh Holmes]

Immediately. And I think that's sort of the larger. Larger point here is we can't really correct it. And we. We do program. We do Tuesday, Thursday. I'm sure we do, like, 10 or 20 other ones.

[Comfortably Smug]

Too.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. But in any friend group, when you're around each other for so long, you create inside jokes that you forget are inside.

[Michael Duncan]

Jokes. Oh, totally. You know, you just speak that.

[Josh Holmes]

Way. Yeah. And you just do.

[Comfortably Smug]

It. And also to. To. To a certain extent, it's like a shibboleth at this point. Like, especially when we go out and we do shows and we see people and they refer to it as a program. Like, oh, you're an.

[Michael Duncan]

Og. Yeah. Like, you get.

[Comfortably Smug]

It. You.

[Michael Duncan]

Know? Yeah, you get it. And then we had, like, people try to steal.

[John Ashbrook]

It. Yeah, they have tried to steal it. You know, there's also another element you didn't mention. And we did work in the Senate for quite a while, and there were a handful of senators who are no longer with us who would take the floor and they would make speeches like nobody makes today, with accents that nobody has today. And the way that they would talk is something that we would just constantly try to replicate and do impressions of in the office all day long. Like. Like, the perfect example of this is a guy named John Warner, a moderate Republican from Virginia. And this guy, when he took the floor, everybody just stopped and listened because you knew that he was going to say something completely outrageous with a straight face. And everyone's mesmerized because you're like, how does anybody still talk like this? It's not.

[Josh Holmes]

1873. It's like a genteel Southern.

[John Ashbrook]

Aristocrat.

[Michael Duncan]

Exactly. Well. And he had the rhetorical gifts to land him. Elizabeth Taylor in her.

[John Ashbrook]

Prime.

[Michael Duncan]

Right. I mean, this is. This man could talk. Yeah. He could talk his way in and out of just about.

[John Ashbrook]

Anything. Right. He's a man worth.

[Comfortably Smug]

Studying. He really.

[Michael Duncan]

Is. Oh, my gosh, you're right. That is definitely a.

[John Ashbrook]

Cool. And also, we've often talked about how they give eulogies if you're a senator and Warner is one of them. Honestly, Joe Biden was one of them. Them. These guys would give eulogies and they would turn them into a speech about.

[Comfortably Smug]

Themselves. Joe Biden's so good at.

[Michael Duncan]

Talking. No, dude, back in the day, it was.

[Comfortably Smug]

Hilarious. Yeah, but worry was funny. I was always against.

[Michael Duncan]

Him. It was.

[John Ashbrook]

Very. Okay.

[Michael Duncan]

Okay. It was always against him. I mean, of course, but like, the point that he's making is a very good one, which was we used to have an inside joke in the Senate about only the upper echelon of senators. And this was back in the day when it's not like you get like a 40 year old old son. Like, these people were the old school, kind of like the forefathers envisioned of.

[John Ashbrook]

Like. Right. Like their first vote was on.

[Josh Holmes]

Vietnam.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah. And then we're there and it's like.

[Josh Holmes]

Whoa. If you offered them a powdered wig, they'd wear.

[Michael Duncan]

It. Oh, 100%. 100%. They were. Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, they were just like old school, but they would do like incredibly old school things, discuss things in a way that was just completely foreign to.

[John Ashbrook]

Us. And I remember a eulogy that Joe Biden gave for this guy. He was a former senator from New England. And I cannot. I wish I could remember his name. Maybe you can remember his name, but he stood there in the small church that looked like the church where they, like the colonists gathered to protest the British back in the day. I mean, this looked like a very old church. And Joe Biden is standing in the pulpit and he is making a eulogy about this guy. Guy in the entire speech was about how that guy played a role in my.

[Michael Duncan]

Greatness. No, for real, he did that. He did the same thing with Jesse Helms. He eulogized Jesse Helms and he. It was like. And we've all come to know we had famous disagreements. I disagree on many things. Like, like civil rights, like, at his own funeral. But then he would. Then he would be like, but we've come because there was common ground and he championed the things that I was the champion.

[Comfortably Smug]

Of. This is why he was a great man. Right. You never give Democrats an inch, bro. Like, at a funeral for you. Like, you don't ever try to be bipartisan. Don't.

[Michael Duncan]

Ever. No, I don't want any Democrats eulogizing me. I know exactly how.

[Comfortably Smug]

That. Yeah, I know what they'll.

[Michael Duncan]

Do. Yeah. Particularly ones from the Senate. All right, so last question here. Like, do you fellas still have day jobs or you do the show full time? We do still have day jobs. Our day jobs are. They're interesting. I mean, we do this honestly because it's fun and it's been a great release and getting to know all of you and you all getting to know a little bit about us and being able to talk about all of it. It's not because we have just a lot of extra time. Like, we don't. Our day jobs are pretty serious and we, you know, you know, a bunch of clients, we do comms, we do digital. We do some strategy stuff with companies that are around the world trying to figure out, you know, best way to market whatever it is that they're working on, which is fun for us. And we really enjoy it a lot. And honestly, it keeps you mentally in the game. You know, it's not just outside of politics you actually get for people who do stuff, you know, not just talk about stuff, but do stuff. It keeps us, I think, a little bit more in touch with an awful lot of that and a little bit about what you guys are dealing with on a day to day basis as you're listening to this. And so, like, I, yes, we're.

[John Ashbrook]

Very busy, but it's a hell of a lot of fun to hang out with your buddies. And what you hear every single time we do a show is exactly what we'd be talking about if we did not have microphones on. So, I mean, this is fun. Yeah, this is just us hanging out. And that's what. That's. Honestly, that's our entire.

[Michael Duncan]

Show. Well, speaking of our entire show, I think we did it here, fellas. This has been a fun little thing.

[John Ashbrook]

Smug. We did.

[Josh Holmes]

It.

[Comfortably Smug]

Yeah. Absolute banger of an episode. Gentlemen, thank.

[Michael Duncan]

You. Merry Christmas. Merry.

[Comfortably Smug]

Christmas. Merry Christmas to all the minions. This is just part one of our Q and A. We will have a part 2. Enjoy this day with your families. Merry Christmas and we will see you next time. Stay ruthless.