Loading summary
Transcript159 lines
- [00:01]
A
Well, these are the episodes that they don't tell you about when you get into the media business, that there are no words to describe the collective emotion that we, and I imagine all of you that are listening have dealt with over the last 18 hours or so since you've heard about the passing of Charlie Kirk. So we want to do a little something different today and just talk a little bit about how we found ourselves here, what a person he was. Look, we had our disagreements over times, publicly at times, but also interactions with people we know and respect who thought he hung the moon. And so we got to know him a little and his team. And I just can't tell you what a horrific tragedy it is to be in this line of work, to watch what happened yesterday, to think that there was anybody so demented to enter a political discussion in the United States of America in the year 2025, to think that somebody who represented goodness, faith, family, shot and killed just simply for how he views politics. And so this is going to be a different show. If you tuned in for the yucks. Not happening today, fellas. I think I'm just gonna throw it open to you all to get this discussion started. I've got a few more things that I want to say about the framing of all of this, but I think nobody honestly did it better than Will, who is our buddy. Will Kane was on Fox Live, was a good friend of Charlie's who had to break this news. And I don't know how he did what he did. Can you play a clip, please?
- [02:19]
B
As I just mentioned, Charlie Kirk has died at a hospital in Utah. At the risk of sounding repetitive, Charlie Kirk was an incredible man. Charlie Kirk was a good friend. Not just to me. For anyone who holds a microphone and anyone involved in politics, anyone he came into contact with, you'll hear it repeated on numerous occasions that Charlie Kirk was my friend. And that doesn't make either any one of us unique. It makes Charlie Kirk unique because every single one of us would get a text, would get a direct message, would get a call from Charlie, encouraging us, congratulating us, complimenting a conversation or a segment. In a business that is full of ego, in a business that is full of competition, Charlie Kirk was a true friend. Charlie Kirk was also a major influential presence in the United States of America who's already been described by the President of the United States as legendary. No one has marshaled the youth in this country in my lifetime in the way of Charlie Kirk, Whether or not it's my children who I will talk to tonight when I go home, two young boys, teenagers who know Charlie Kirk, who listen to Charlie Kirk or the kids that I meet on college campuses before big noon kickoff on Fox Sports at Ohio State, who want to ask me about Charlie Kirk. In the thousands and tens of thousands across this country, from college campus to college campus, Charlie Kirk has been a major influence on the young people of this country. But his influence didn't stop on college campuses. Charlie Kirk's influence extended on to the heights of power in the United States of America. A personal friend, I know. To the Secretary of War, to the Secretary of State. To the Vice President of the United States. To the President of the United States. Charlie Kirk's influence literally knew no bounds, and he changed America for the better, for those that hate and those that disagree and that can find no other way to respond but with violence. You did nothing today but to point out the important influence in the great man that was Charlie Kirk.
- [04:27]
A
Well said, Will. And listen, fellas, the only thing I find more reprehensible than the crime or finding something negative to say are people who sort of masquerade for clout about their associations with Charlie. And we're not going to do that here. What we will say is we wouldn't be doing what we're doing at some level without the influence that he had on new media, without the influence that he had in politics about a younger generation, about you, the audience, his ability to galvanize people around common conservative values that were thought to be forever in a liberal domain. You need to go to college campuses and. Well, that's just a bunch of liberal kids. Yeah.
- [05:24]
C
Yeah. So I think that's the thing about Charlie that I will remember and respect forever, is he did one of the hardest things in politics as a conservative, and that is show up on college campuses. It's as simple as that, you know, And. And he didn't do it in a mean way, you know, that you'd see the clips, Right. Like, on reels or whatever of him having these conversations with, you know, with liberals on college campuses. And he always did it with class.
- [05:56]
A
Yeah.
- [05:56]
C
You know, it was never. There wasn't a meanness to any of it. You know, he was. He was always prepared to, like, have a good conversation. And, you know, if the person was just angry, he was never angry, you know, and he would end all those things. Well, I guess we just disagree, you know, microphone down. And it's. It's a brave thing to do. It's. It's not something I would. I would ever, ever do. But he did that, and he did that all across the country. And it's like, it kind of goes back, I think. You know, Holmes, I remember the episode we did right before the election, and you kind of did like a rallying call to the youth of America.
- [06:37]
A
Right.
- [06:37]
C
To all these young men on college campuses and across the country to show up and go out and vote. I don't think that happens without a guy like Charlie.
- [06:46]
A
I agree.
- [06:46]
C
You know.
- [06:47]
A
Yeah.
- [06:48]
C
And I think that'll be his legacy forever.
- [06:51]
D
Well, and I think that's a very important point because, I mean, as difficult as this day is, you have to look at the legacy that that guy has left behind. The thousands and thousands and thousands of people who feel like they have a voice, they matter, they can be involved and they can make a difference because they were inspired by a guy like Charlie. Charlie was one of the most important people in our country. Very influential, a real leader. And the legacy that he left behind will never, ever be forgotten. And, you know, I was texting with my wife this afternoon, and she made a point which I think was very, very important, and she was like, you know, his kids are so little.
- [07:35]
C
Yeah.
- [07:36]
D
They can't read. They don't understand what's happened to them. But when they get older, think about how proud they're going to be of their dad that they carry his name, that what he did is something that now confers to them. I mean, those kids live in a household that was built by a very, very good man. And I feel like, you know, that is something we should all strive for in life.
- [08:03]
E
Wow. That's a hell of a thought. I think I'm still just. It's. It still doesn't feel real. It's so shocking and terrible. And I remember, like the second this horrible news broke, you know, instantly, I just, I started praying. And he was, you know, he was a man of faith. He deeply believed in God. And it's just extremely devastating thing to think of. I mean, he was 31 young father.
- [08:35]
F
1 year old, 3 year old.
- [08:36]
A
Forget how young he was because he's been around for a long time.
- [08:39]
C
31 years old, born in 1993. When I saw that on Fox, it was, it was just brought me a lot of sadness to think, to think of somebody that young who's done this much, who's now gone, you know, And I think the toughest thing about having a microphone in my fucking face right now is how angry I am. Totally. And how, and how, you know, I don't want to sully you Know this episode with any of that stuff, because these people don't deserve that.
- [09:11]
A
Yep.
- [09:11]
C
You know, and I might sully a little, but. But I'll be honest, but I, but, but there. I think there's gonna be a time for that. We can, we can go into all of it. And I look forward to that because I'm just filled with so much anger as I looked at those Pictures of a 1 year old and a 3 year old who will not have their father because the left has lost its goddamn mind.
- [09:30]
A
Yeah. I mean, look, part of the reason why you listen to us, we have these relationships and we know this ecosystem and whatnot, but we're also real human beings. And so what you're getting here is a totally unscripted reaction to devastating news. And what's so interesting about, you know, sort of like the emotion when you get beyond the human component, which is very difficult for me. Cause I find myself thinking exactly the way that you just articulated Duncan, that it's like, I can't get over the fact that he's 31, he's got two little kids. That's it. That's like, that's all I can think about. And then I try to put it back into, you know, box that up and put it into what I know about him and the full trajectory of him and TPUSA and what it's become, which is no doubt it's a behemoth. I mean, this has had an enormous impact on hundreds of thousands of people. You know, when Charlie Kirk started, my career was well underway and I had kind of a two front battle of trying to make sure that people could do the people's business of governing at some level. And then an activist class who I knew didn't have the same inputs that I did, and I had a job to do, which is just try to, you know, prevent an information flow that made life more difficult for all of us who were trying to get some things done. And it was in the Obama era where opposing everything would have been so much easier. But we were in a leader's office where you had to make sure that people got Social Security benefits and veterans benefits and our men and women in uniform were funded. And like, there were things that you just had to do so agreements were necessary. And like, we had these tactical disagreements time after time. And we went through a period of time with that where like, I'm sure that there were folks in the TPUSA world who thought, you know, I was an enemy. And I'm sure at times I thought they were an enemy. But what I remember about Charlie is that we saw him at the convention. He didn't act like that. No.
- [11:49]
C
Yeah.
- [11:49]
A
You know what I mean?
- [11:50]
C
Right. He was a thoughtful guy.
- [11:51]
A
And then we saw him on the inauguration.
- [11:55]
F
Yeah.
- [11:55]
A
He didn't act like that.
- [11:57]
C
Well, I think like the events of yesterday, and I think this is sort of what you're getting at a little bit, Holmes. It's a clarifying moment in that the slight differences you might have, the minutiae of differences you might have with somebody else in the conservative movement is such a moot point. So small in an environment in which we live currently, today, with a left that has lost its mind.
- [12:24]
A
It's tactical and it's rhetorical, and it's on the same. You all want the same thing.
- [12:30]
C
Right. Right.
- [12:31]
A
And what you're up against, increasingly, is a very scary society. And we got an interview with Senator Sheehy of Montana, one of the really bright and impressive people. I will say that. We interviewed him, like, literally right after. Minutes after we had the news that he. That Charlie was shot. And we were getting the initial phases of all that. We had planned to have a ton of yucks because the last time we talked to him, we talked to him about the campaign, and he was going through it, and so we were gonna have some fun, we're gonna have some laughs, and we didn't need to say it to each other, but that obviously didn't happen because our minds were here. And I think he did a really nice job of explaining his thoughts on that and a whole bunch of things. But I want to contextualize that for the audience before we get to that interview. But I will say there's a lot of talk, and I know you guys feel this, too. You see the comments about political violence. First of all, if I see a Democratic statement that says gun violence in the first sentence, it makes me want to tip this desk over. Yep. Because it's not. When you work in this line of work, it's not. They're not. It's not a literal observation. That's not what this is. When they enter that into the first sentence. It's a political advocacy tool that gun violence. And then they get to the political violence and they express their hearts and, you know, thoughts and prayers. I just have to believe at some level that we're not going to tip into 1968. Like, I just. I just have to believe that we're not going to go down that road. But, like, look at what we're dealing with in the Last deck. You got Steve Scalise, Right? Yeah, that last. That story lasted. This guy's wounds lasted a lifetime. He's still suffering from it. Barely anybody other than President Trump talks about it, but he was shot on a baseball field by some left wing lunatic. Brett Kavanaugh had a guy with a shotgun outside of his home for daring to be a Supreme Court justice. Right. Because the media had elevated that whole story that he was some kind of a monster. We know Brett Kavanaugh. This guy's the last thing. You would want him as your neighbor. Trust me.
- [15:12]
C
Right.
- [15:12]
A
You would want him as your neighbor. Two assassination attempts on Donald Trump. I mean, I remember when we were in the Obama era and it was my job at some level to deal with the CAP police on threat assessments and whatnot. When McConnell was there and he was up against Obama, it was daily. It was daily. Now, thank God there was no actionable stuff that resulted in it. And there was a lot of good law enforcement that made sure that that was not, you know, ever something that I had to worry about beyond an assessment. But it's real and it's there. And increasingly we've gotten to a place in society where this leftist progressive information silo, and we don't know anything about who killed this person. You know, as of filming all this, we don't know anything about him.
- [16:10]
D
Yeah, still at large.
- [16:11]
A
Still at large. But it's hard not to look at a pattern of violence, and it's hard not to think this was part of a political violence.
- [16:24]
C
So you mentioned 1968. And, you know, I don't want to sound hyperbolic in this, but I think we are there. I just think we are there. I think when you have an environment in which people on the left celebrate Luigi Mangione, when that poor woman is executed in midtown Manhattan and she works at Blackstone, so a bunch of leftists celebrate her murder. The people celebrating the murder of Charlie Kirk on the Internet, I'm telling you, pal, we are there. And that is a unfortunate reality. And people just have to wake up to that fact.
- [17:15]
D
I don't disagree with you, Michael. I mean, I feel like if we've ever had evidence that it's just as bad, if not potentially worse, we've seen it in the last 24 hours. We've seen it over the last several weeks. We've seen what we saw on Twitter, if you were on social media yesterday, just an unbelievable number of clips of TikTok videos of these lunatic leftists celebrating, actually celebrating and putting up, like putting up statements and music, and it's sick. You can't even understand it. You can't even relate it. But it also is not isolated to the lunatic left on TikTok. On MSNBC, there's a former Republican consultant, this guy named Matt Dowd. I saw that idiot.
- [18:05]
C
Yeah.
- [18:05]
D
And he said the most despicable things. This woman named Katie Turner.
- [18:11]
C
Katie Turner is human garbage. Why is she allowed on television? They should pull her fucking off the air. I mean, I saw those clips, dude, and it enraged me.
- [18:20]
A
Well, to be honest, just for our audience, your awareness, like, typically speaking, when we get into this kind of thing, we provide you the clip. We weren't gonna dignify it. We just weren't gonna dignify it because there is a time and a place for that. And there is a. Typically when we play these things, we laugh and make fun of people.
- [18:40]
C
I would love to do that. I don't feel like that, though.
- [18:43]
A
We're just not there for that. Right. But if your first initial reaction to this is to denigrate Charlie Kirk or denigrate his message, you are a fucking monster. You're a monster. And look, I think the Internet's been great to us. Social media's been great to us. I think that many parts of what's happened over the last year and a half, two years, Elon Binax and everything else is great for like, literally the base layer of the First Amendment and your guaranteed rights of free speech, which, by the way, the core of that. The core of that is so you can disagree vehemently and be just nasty from a political rhetoric point of view without resorting to violence, because you're not worried about a state. You're not worried. Which is, by the way, one of the things that crept up over the last four years that the state was getting involved in what you can say and what you can't say. Charlie was a huge advocate against all of that like this. That component is right. The downside of some of this discussion is that people are siloing themselves off to a point where it is extremely concerning. Katie Tur, Matt Dowd, what's going on in their information silo that I don't know them. I don't know either of them. I knew Matt 20 years ago when he was a Bush consultant did. Unrecognizable from this situation. But what's going on with them where whatever your compassion, your humanity, your understanding of what America is supposed to be about is set aside for, you know, something less than taking a victory lap over the assassination of One of this country's conservative leaders.
- [20:48]
D
Like I don't know, it's not good.
- [20:50]
A
It's hard.
- [20:51]
D
You can't relate to it. You can't understand it. It's not good. It's a sickness. It is absolutely a sickness. It's a disease. And these people on TikTok are demons. I'm sorry. There is wickedness in our world. There is and it has come on full display over the last six months in a way that we haven't seen in a long time.
- [21:11]
C
Yeah.
- [21:11]
D
And, and there's no other way to explain it.
- [21:13]
C
I did, I 100% agree. I, I made the mistake because Stephen Miller, not Stephen Miller White House but Red Steez.
- [21:21]
A
Yeah.
- [21:22]
C
On Twitter mentioned, you know, go to, go to Blue sky and see how these people are ingesting this information. And I went there and, and I, I read that and I thought to myself, wow, the devil does his work on earth. Like these people are demons and it's a horrible, horrible thing to have to see. And that is what it is. That is the social media world. It doesn't excuse Matt Dowd, it doesn't excuse Katie Tur that I had to watch a father, a 31 year old father of a 1 year old and a 3 year old bleed out on social media. And you've Katie fucking Tur on television talking about oh well what I'm really worried is about the reaction to this on the right. What is the right going to do now? You are a fucking insane person. You are an insane person that, that, that you could even even think up that idea while you're on television. How is that even possible, dude? Yeah, I, I, I, I'm like, I'm so fucking angry and I'm so fucking depressed about this whole thing to think about that like that this is the state of our country.
- [22:32]
D
It is soul sucking as angry as it makes me and I'm telling you my blood is boiling. I think about how Charlie lived his life. I think about what he did. He went right into these universities and he let all comers ask him questions. He debated everybody and he wrong and he gave them answers was his mantra and he had the right arguments. He actually, I mean with a smile on his face, the most affable person you could ever interact with and he beat them every single time because he was right. And like as angry as I am and I am like I need to go walk around the block, I am so mad. But like I also think about him sitting in a chair in the most crazy looking leftist, walking up to him and saying the craziest things and attacking him and calling him names, and his reaction was peaceful. And I, like. I think that is. I think that is a.
- [23:32]
C
It's a testament to his character. It really is. You're right.
- [23:34]
F
You're right.
- [23:35]
A
I mean, there's no question.
- [23:36]
C
I mean, I. I just have to say for myself, I could never do it.
- [23:40]
D
No, I could never do it. I couldn't either.
- [23:42]
C
You know, it's just not my personality. I don't understand how he. He was affable.
- [23:47]
D
Right. You know, in the face of all that.
- [23:49]
C
In the face of all of that. And it's a skill. It really is. It's a happy warrior mentality that Charlie had, which made him such a valuable asset to the conservative movement, you know.
- [24:02]
A
Yeah.
- [24:03]
D
And to our country.
- [24:04]
A
And look, there's a lot of exploring that happens after this. This is not going to be one of those moments that is just, you know, somebody killed. What does it all mean 24 hours onto the next? It's just not. Because there's an awful lot of Charlie that is imprinted on all of us in what we do, in what we talk about, in the freedom in which we do it. That means more than a moment in time. And it honestly traces back to the Constitution. It traces back to the founding of this country. And I know that sounds ridiculous when you're talking about such a tragedy that happened yesterday, but that's really what it's about. And, you know, you look at some of the great leaders of our time and you think about what their reaction to tragedy is. And I'm urging you all, and I know we operate in a special place for all of you. You tune in to us so you can have some yucks, you can laugh and, you know, have common water cooler talk with folks, but I think more than anything, you. You. You're looking for us to just give you a little bit of guidance on, like, how you should process all of this, because we're pretty well adjusted by Internet personalities. You know, we try. I mean, we, we. We try and it's difficult. But if you look at this situation, the only thing I can say is, like, our country's been through some shit. When we talked about the 60s already, we talk, you know, I mean, God, last year's presidential election, two assassination attempts, and then everybody pretends like it doesn't happen. You're dealing with killings of innocent refugees in Charlotte, with people who are denying that crime exists for political purposes. You've got all these things to be super depressed about. And I get it. Believe me, I get it. Violence is not going to solve anything. Retribution never in that capacity ever does in this country. It may in others. You know, if you're in Somalia, I don't know. But in the United States, a battle of ideas is just won by people who actually just commit to it. And that's what Charlie was committed to. And just don't stop, you know, don't get despondent by it. That's all I can say. Smug. Do you have anything to add to that?
- [26:48]
E
That's. It's. It's hard. And, you know, while we were talking before we started recording, just as a human, this is just so horrific and tragic because, you know, there's. You've already seen, like, talking heads on TV and all this stuff that'll just make you so mad and put hate in your heart.
- [27:08]
A
Yeah.
- [27:09]
E
And then you just see the photo of him with his kids. It just breaks your heart. Breaks your heart.
- [27:13]
A
I mean, it's why we don't have the clips up.
- [27:15]
C
But. But to your point, Holmes, and I think this is important is I remember after the Butler shooting, you know, and we were scheduled to do that huge, you know, college game day style thing at the. At the convention, and I remember my wife being like, are you. You guys are actually gonna do that?
- [27:40]
F
Yeah.
- [27:41]
C
You're gonna be out there, you know, in the promenade, like, clear lines of sight, every building around that place.
- [27:47]
A
Dude, I hate to make this about ourselves, but I don't want to make it about ourselves. No, but it's true. But what you said is true. To give you a sense of, like, the audience. Right. Of all the things that we're processing here, these are conversations that we have with our family today. Right.
- [28:02]
C
It's conversations we have to have. But, like, it wasn't like we were going to not do the show.
- [28:08]
A
Right.
- [28:08]
C
You have to live unafraid of these people. That's how we win.
- [28:14]
A
Yeah. No, it's true. It's true. You got to keep doing. You got to keep going. That's what Charlie did. And all of us were in admiration for the idea that he did what he would do.
- [28:26]
C
Yeah.
- [28:27]
A
And guys like Ben Shapiro, too, they walk into the belly of the beast and like, all right, prove me wrong. Which Charlie's saying, prove me wrong. Come in. Like, are you. And increasingly, you saw just unhinged people coming in and not so much debating, but screaming at him. Then he'd smile and, you know, give him a little retort and send him on their way and tell them, God, Bless him. And then it ends in that. And it's just. It's very, very hard to process. It really is. But we're trying our best. We're going to get back to Yuks because that's what we do. But we're not doing it today. We just wanted to give our. Our prayers for Charlie's family, everybody, all of his friends and everybody who's associated with. We got to go to our interview. Senator Sheehy. Well, we had been looking forward to this interview for quite some time. The last time we talked to Senator Sheehy, it was in the midst of a incredibly tumultuous campaign. And, you know, tensions are high and there's things, serious things to talk about. The good people had to make a decision about how to vote. And so we thought, well, we're going to have some yucks today. Obviously, that has changed with the news of the shooting of Charlie Kirk, but I want to welcome you to the program anyway, and we'll just talk through some things. But I think first I want to get your reaction to what is late breaking news for us at this point about Charlie Kirk being shot in Utah.
- [30:06]
F
Yeah, I just saw the video. And of course, this comes on the heels of a period of political violence that we haven't seen in America since, you know, 1960s, really, you know, JFK, MLK, RFK Jr. You know, RFK, sorry, his father. And it's tragic that we've seen two attempts on President Trump's life. Of course, now we see Charlie Kirk and a lot of other just, you know, ambient violence going on in the cities that we all know too well. And of course, we've seen that night and day change here in D.C. in the recent weeks with the influx of law enforcement. So the bottom line is there's just no excuse for political violence. You know, humans are humans. They're always going to be. We're watching Nepal happen right now. We're watching a government collapse in Nepal and people dragging government officials out of buildings and throwing them off cliffs into the river. And, you know, unfortunately, political violence is at times the expression of frustrated people who've been radicalized by one ideal or another. So there's no excuse for this. We're, of course, praying for Charlie and his family. He's recently a father, so, you know, and Charlie came out to Montana for me and was very grateful to have his support, but we really just gotta. We gotta figure out how to talk to each other again. I mean, I'm as strong as a conservative as anybody else, but we have to figure out how to talk to each other and not take every political stance of somebody else as a personal affront, as a moral failing. We have to be able to say, listen, we can disagree on a lot of things, but let's figure out what we agree on first and work backwards from there. So tragic and unfortunately becoming normalized. Yeah.
- [31:35]
A
And of course, you know, look, one. One of the pinnacles of this country is your ability to express political disagreement. Right. I mean, it's what guys like you signed up for, to defend this country, which makes us different from an awful lot of places. Violence is usually reserved for things like wars. And in America, in politics, particularly, like you said, the 60s, that's the last time I think we've had this level of political anxiety that has resulted in violence. And it's just got. As someone who just entered the political arena, who spent a substantial amount of your career in a very violent arena, it's got to be sort of surreal.
- [32:17]
F
There's no question it is. But. But even. You know, I remember last year, it was my son's birthday when Trump was shot last year, and we were driving back from a branding at one of our partner ranches, and we'd been up since 4am Roping cattle and branding, and. And I was listening to satellite radio. It's the only thing we can get in the middle of nowhere in Montana. And, you know, I was listening to his rally just by chance. It wasn't normally I would tune in to listen to Trump rallies, so many of them, but I just happened to be listening to that one. And, you know, I heard the shot and, you know, I've been shot at a lot.
- [32:49]
A
Yeah.
- [32:50]
F
Shot a lot of guns and knew right away what. What the sound was, and there was kind of that silence on the news, and I turned back to my son and said, hey, we just heard history be made. I don't know what happened, but something bad just happened. And thank God, obviously, the President was okay. But, you know, my wife and I had a talk after that, because we'd get death threats all the time. I mean, of course, as soon as you announce, you know, you're getting death threats, you're getting people sending you terrible things and what they're going to do to your children and burn your house down, et cetera, et cetera, so. But in many ways, you know, it almost hardened our resolve to continue.
- [33:19]
A
Yeah, I was going to ask that because.
- [33:20]
F
Because if you're not willing to enter a political arena in that world, if you're coming, because you Want to go to cocktail parties and play golf for the wrong reason? Yeah. Then you're probably not here for the right reason. And I think for both of us. My wife also is an Afghan war vet. She was a Marine Corps officer. Neither of us are strangers to danger, and if anything, it said, this is the time we need a new generation of leaders to start seeping into our system. And it's not a knock on the previous generation, but it's an acknowledgement that, as we're seeing in the past year, there's been a breakdown in our political discourse. And generally when that happens, injecting new blood and new people into it can be a path to healing, that it can also be a path to exacerbating it. But, yeah, it's been sad to see. And as someone who's been in a lot of countries where the governments are unstable or war torn, my hope and my expectation is we're going to work our way through this. We've been in much worse spots than the nation before. We really have.
- [34:18]
A
Yeah.
- [34:18]
F
So we're going to make it through.
- [34:20]
A
So tell me a little bit about. I mean, look, you're. All things considered, you're what, eight, eight months into this? A little bit more than eight months into this in the United States Senate. We all heard your, your campaign and, and were attracted to it. And obviously it was hugely important for the future of the country to have the Senate have great representation from the state of Montana. As you've been here. What do you think?
- [34:45]
F
Like, it's a pain in the ass.
- [34:48]
C
You gotta stay.
- [34:50]
F
I'm looking for the exit.
- [34:52]
A
It's tough, right? I mean, it's, it's frustrating at times.
- [34:55]
F
Yeah.
- [34:56]
A
But you've also had eight months of accomplishment, which a lot of your colleagues, when they come in in a minority status in the Senate or you come in with a president that you vehemently disagree with, you're reduced to just sort of saying no. Yeah. And that's.
- [35:11]
C
Can I read the quote real quick? Because I love this punchbowl quote. I came here to solve problems and get shit done.
- [35:17]
F
Yeah.
- [35:18]
C
We have to stop watching our cities burn to the ground. And I just loved that. That was very cool.
- [35:23]
A
Yeah. Well said.
- [35:24]
F
Well, you know, my first week in office, you know, I fought wildfire for a decade plus, and that was my profession. Just two weeks ago on my ranch, I was fighting a wildfire. And it turned out to be a perfect opportunity to highlight a policy area I was very focused on because I was personally out there fighting the fire with the Firefighters from the government who came out and was able to show how a number of the policies that we are championing directly apply to what was happening on my ranch, in my home. So. But that quote you mentioned there, you know, came from Wildfire is an issue I wanted to solve. It's an eminently solvable problem because a lot of our challenges for Wildfire basically are because of government dysfunction. And it's nobody's fault in government, but it's basically a failing bureaucracy that is not adapted to a 21st century threat matrix, very much like our DoD acquisition system, which I'm also trying to fix. But I thought over the course of six years here, maybe I could sort out Wildfire. Well, my first week in office, Louisiana is burning to the ground in January. This isn't July, August, September, this is middle of winter. Arguably, America's biggest, greatest city is literally burning to the ground. And I realized at that time that we were never going to have the political will across the aisle, across branches of government to focus on and solve this problem. We were never going to have that opportunity again with such a clear front page news every day all over the world, Louisiana is burning to the ground. So I worked as fast as I could, having known almost nobody here except for like, Steve Daines. And you're like sitting in the Dirksen.
- [36:55]
A
Basement with like three people.
- [36:56]
F
Yeah, yeah. Like 12 of us. Package packed in the broom closet. And it started. Anybody I could. That I could build a relationship with around this, hey, this Alex Padilla, Adam Schiff, you know, Andy Kim, all the western states, Democrats, Mark Kelly, Cortez Masto, and of course, a lot of our Republican colleagues who'd been sounding the alarm about this for a while, and of course, directly, the president called him right up and said, listen, sir, you need to get out there and you need to sit in the hulk of a burned out house and sign a piece of paper that says we're never going to let this happen again.
- [37:24]
A
Yeah.
- [37:24]
F
And obviously, to his credit, he was out there quickly and not because I asked him to. He knows marketing better than I do. He knew he needed to get there.
- [37:31]
A
Well, a president who understands that solving problems is part of the remit 100%.
- [37:36]
F
And I think, you know, obviously there's always a tendency to try to make everything partisan now, try to every issue, whether it's a woman getting stabbed on a subway in Charlotte or whether it's the tragic shooting we just heard about, or whether it's our cities burning to the ground. But I think it's important to Try to distill these issues and say, okay, this isn't partisan, but we do need to be factual about what led to this. Why did this happen? Why do we have policies that prioritize the well being of endangered salamanders and spotted owls and rare, you know, iceberg lettuce grass, you know, over the safety of our homes? Yeah, like why do we do that? Okay, why do we, why are we willing to spend hundreds of billions? Why do we send $40 million a week to the Taliban, a terrorist organization, from our taxpayer dollars, yet we are unwilling to spend $40 million to contract appropriate firefighting equipment for our firefighters? You know, and you start to lay these against each other and it comes back in that kind of rubric of America first. Like, why do we take so much time and effort to help everyone else around the world, tens of millions of refugees, yet we don't take common sense steps to protect our own communities from something like wildfire. So.
- [38:44]
A
But also rare to get an accomplishment that quickly. Right, Right.
- [38:48]
F
Well, we just, I mean, it was relentless. And I mean, and I have to give credit to a lot of the partners that walked along with us on both sides of the aisle. I have to be honest, when I walked into these, most of these folks meeting for the first time, didn't know who the hell I was. Probably out campaigning, raising money against me. In fact, I know they were for sure. I said, hey, sorry your old buddy's gone, but guess what, I'm here now. And they're like, yeah, and I happen.
- [39:07]
A
To know something about firefighting.
- [39:09]
B
Yes.
- [39:09]
F
And to their credit, they're all like, got it. Like this, this is an issue we need to solve. So, yeah, we got the. I was the first freshman to get a bill passed. And we've had some great executive action out of the White House too on this. And we've got a whole package of bills that are going to start solving this issue because it's a year round issue and it's a 50 state issue. I mean, Haina, Hawaii burned to the ground, hundred people killed. You know, Smokehouse Creek fire in Texas last year, 1.6 million acres. New Jersey had some devastating wildfires last fall. So it's not just a California summertime issue. This is 50 states and they nationwide. And the biggest thing that most folks don't connect the dots on though, is the homeowner's insurance aspect of this. If you can't get insurance, what can't you get on your home?
- [39:50]
A
Yeah.
- [39:51]
F
A mortgage you can't find and who everyone has a Mortgage, you can't get the home, the first one. And we're seeing stress fractures appear in the foundations of our homeowners, insurance, reinsurance markets and underwriters, because they simply can't carry the weight of the most expensive disaster in American history, which was the LA fires. You know, a quarter of a trillion dollars.
- [40:12]
A
Well, they can't even rebuild.
- [40:13]
F
Yeah, we're like nine permits into 14,000 structures being wiped out. So, you know, when those dominoes start to fall, we're looking at a structural threat to our entire insurance industry. So. And that thereby threatens our mortgage industry and liquidity of homes nationwide. So it's a serious issue.
- [40:29]
A
It's interesting, you know, my experience in the Senate. Obviously, it's very frustrating from a partisan standpoint. It's hard to relate to people who just sort of always have that lens. And then all of the big issues, big fights. I mean, you guys are going through one right now. Government shutdown. It's like every year of my career, it's the same, same discussion. It's, we're gonna be fine, trust me. But then these under the other issues, either they pop up as a result of events or they're really important things that just don't make the headlines. You do find that everybody kind of comes at things with a certain level of expertise. I mean, this was an area where like, thank God she. He arrived. He knows something about how to solve this problem. He can play a critical role in trying to do it. Have you noticed their colleagues, that they bring something in their past and where you. Something you didn't know, and you're like, wow, that's interesting. Tell me about that.
- [41:25]
F
Yeah, there's no question. But once you get here, you realize everyone's here for a reason.
- [41:28]
A
Yeah.
- [41:29]
F
You know, I mean, whether they're either really smart, really well connected, or, you know, really rich or whatever Reason.
- [41:34]
A
Yeah, right.
- [41:35]
F
To get here in the US Senate is tough.
- [41:37]
A
Right.
- [41:37]
F
Not easy. A lot of people spend their whole lives trying to get here. And as one of the youngest members of 39, you know, it's. You look around like, all right, it's like the profession of war, when you're on the battlefield and you see a gray man out there, an old man.
- [41:49]
A
Yeah.
- [41:50]
F
You've seen some instant respect because it's a young man's game. And to survive in the game of war and still be there fighting as an old man, like, all right, you gotta respect that guy because, you know, he survived it. He survived some shit, and come out the other side and you come To a place like this, you're like, look at a guy like Chuck Grassley who's been there, you know, half a century, uninterrupted. Like, it may seem like a nice little guy, maybe he is, but he also knows how to solist and throws because, you know, you don't survive that long without knowing how to be ruthless for your name dropping here. But yeah, so I think, you know, there's a lot of people who are incredibly talented here, no question about it. And they're all here for a reason. So. And I think the difference for me is, you know, obviously campaigning, you know, I'm an outsider, zero political experience, never been in the elected office at all. You know, you make fun of the Senate, it's the nation's largest nursing home. It's like most well funded nursing home. But at the same time, like I said, there's some really sharp people here. I think everyone's super sharp in their own way. So it's been great. When you can bring that skill to bear and you can focus it and say, hey, let's solve a problem together, it's pretty cool to see what you can get done.
- [42:51]
A
Well, that's the thing that I find so impressive about what you've done in your short tenure here is there's a lot of people who run generally spend one term here, but, you know, they're an outsider. Oh, you know, let's we, we hate the way the government works. And I going to walk in day one, write a book, then I'm going to spend the next six months, you know, like promoting it. And I'm going to do all of this other stuff, radio, TV hits or whatever. And you understand the difference between that approach and something like you, who on day one is authoring transformative legislation and trying to build relationships to get something done. It's different than being a king or a president or even a governor in that in order to actually get anything done, there has to be some understanding that you have to have a persuasive quality and you have to get to know people, they have to trust you and you have to kind of bring them on board. And that's a growing process for almost anyone who's never done it before. And like in the first month you're doing it and that I find that incredibly impressive. I mean, is that something that you'd wrapped your mind? It's a legislative body and I can't just like proclaim things.
- [44:01]
F
Yeah, you have to understand the difference between your jobs. You know, going back to my first job as a SEAL team officer and leader. Did a few deployments around the world and you know, you go on one deployment and you're a direct action strike force where your job is, you go back to the megabase every night, you get in the black helicopters, you go out and you capture, kill an enemy leader and you're in and out, you know, just like you see in the movies. And your mission is to find that X, get to that X, execute the mission and get home. And then you take a different type of mission where, hey, now your job is to go embed and live with locals in this valley, live there for months on end and build partner nation, host nation capacity.
- [44:39]
A
That's got to be a wild experience.
- [44:40]
F
It's like legislating. You're there living with people that oftentimes you have very little in common with. You know, know, they're probably very fundamentalist Muslims, but you're trying to make them our Muslims, you know, and let's not forget, you know, the Northern alliance is basically what became, you know, in many ways parts of the Taliban later on. And, you know, we're working with people that probably were fighting against, you know, us previously, and now, you know, we're trying to create capacity to deny, you know, the enemy of the is my friend. So you've got to go to a village and sit around with a bunch of village elders and convince them why they should be joining your army instead of the Taliban army. Because there is that constant, you know, they'll go to a village and say, hey, the Taliban wants to get these young men in this village in their army. Well, we want them in our army. And frankly, they're to a certain extent kind of mercenary in their outlook. Well, who's going to pay us more? What's better for my village is what the elder's going to say, should I join the Taliban or the Americans or both. Right? And a lot of times you have to realize the guys you're working with are on both sides, full mercenary. And if you like, well, I'm not going to work with that guy. He's not. Morally pure litmus test. Like, I'm bullshit, man. I gotta get shit done.
- [45:43]
A
It's seeing the world as it is.
- [45:44]
F
Rather than how you hope to be. And then, of course, and then you go to a different type of mission. Your next team where you're in the jungles hunting drug dealers and then I'm driving mini subs under the ocean doing, you know, so being able to switch that mindset to say, hey, you Know I'm not CEO of a business anymore. The whole concept of legislating is building a coalition around an issue, especially in the US Senate where obviously we have a six vote threshold for anything really structurally meaningful. So with a 53 seat majority there's a mandate. You have to have got to go find people whether you like it or not. And unfortunately in a very polarized era, sometimes it can be hard to do that with a guy litting up by your own side. But it's like guys, it's a six foot threshold. So until that changes, I need to go find seven people to work with me.
- [46:29]
C
So you mentioned Afghanistan and I'm sort of just curious because we have the anniversary of 911 here on Thursday. And I'm sort of curious, what are the things that you remember most from that day Homes you always talk about? You were working in the Capitol at the time. The thing you always talk about is the shoes, that people just left their shoes as they're running away because they thought the Capitol was going to get hit by a plane. And I'm curious, you must have been like a sophomore in high school at the time. Like what are, what are the things that you remember most on that day?
- [47:01]
F
Yeah, you know, I think for all of us it's that JFK moon landing moment, whatever it is. Like everyone knows where they were.
- [47:07]
C
That thing.
- [47:07]
F
Yeah, like you know, life divided into a before and after life becomes for our generation before 9 11, after 911 and everything. Especially for those of us who went to war. You know, like my wife and I were in high school when this happened. That, that literally determined the course of our life.
- [47:21]
C
Yeah.
- [47:22]
F
The next many, many years. So yeah, I was, I was in English class and at that time, you know, wasn't like a long time ago, but you know, every classroom didn't have a flat screen tv. We didn't have flat screen. It was still the, yeah, the square tube tv.
- [47:32]
A
They rolled them in on the four wheel.
- [47:34]
F
Exactly right. With a VCR on it. So we, we, there was one like classroom in our part of the school that had a tv. And you know, word spread quick, hey, a plane just crashed into the World Trade Center. And you know, again this is the 1990s, you know, Pax Americana, like wars are over. The world is now peaceful. So it must have been a terrible accident. So we run down there and at that point my neighbor who was a navy pilot, he had been teaching me how to fly since I was like 8 years old and his own. So I was a pilot already licensed Pilot. I didn't know that young.
- [48:03]
A
Yeah.
- [48:04]
F
I'd already been soloing planes. I think my last year. I wasn't old enough yet, but I was. I was a solo pilot. That point someone's asking me, assuming I know, like, an airliner issue, like, what do you think, Tim? You know, I'm like, oh, well, here's what I think, you know, but, you know, watching, obviously it's an accident. I mean, why would a. You know. But it was a perfect, clear day. And I remember sitting in that English classroom in the basement, everyone's crying on the tv. And, you know, the mood was, you know, obviously, this is sad, but interesting. Well, and then we were watching as the second plane hit, and you didn't have to. No one had to say anything. You could feel the room change.
- [48:37]
A
Yeah.
- [48:37]
F
I mean, it was like we just felt with Charlie Kirk a few minutes ago. I mean, the mood, just everybody. That feeling, like, even a seventh grader knew that this is different. That was intentional, like. And, you know, obviously within half hour, everyone realized we were under attack.
- [48:55]
A
Yeah.
- [48:55]
D
Yeah. One of the things I want to ask you about is because you're obviously, you know, a man of action, you know, something went wrong, and you were like, I am going to defend this country. Something was not right with the fires and everything else. And you went to the Senate and you fixed the problem. And obviously, at the same time, we have this outbreak of political violence in this country. We have crime rising in cities around the country. The President is doing something about it. At least one Democrat, the mayor of D.C. has said she. She appreciates what the President has done. A lot of Democrats in the Senate don't seem to take crime as seriously as our President is taking it. I wonder if you see any possibility to get something done in Congress that addresses crime. I know it's something that sits on your mind.
- [49:42]
F
Absolutely. Obviously, the events in North Carolina, you know, that happened a few weeks ago, that have been completely suppressed by what we would consider our media establishment. And, you know, as we learn more about it, we find out this guy's, you know, arrested for 14 times released by a judge who basically said, my mission in life is to deconstruct the white supremacist society we live in. So I'm going to let these guys go free. And of course, Democrats are furious that Putin kills Ukrainians in Ukraine, but they don't care when American criminals kill Ukrainians here. Grand irony. And I think the truth is, most of our Democrat colleagues do find it repugnant, and they do want to fix it. But unfortunately, as we've seen in New York City right now with Mamdani and the movement of the party, the that they are captured by a primary base that. I was reading the Free Press today. Barry Weiss is publicating the Free Press and it's more of an anti political or apolitical one. But I really enjoy the way they analyze issues and they talked about how that this new American Gen Z overeducated, unemployable class of Ivy League losers who essentially are resentful at the free market, capitalist American system that's, that's lifted more people out of poverty than anything ever envisioned in mankind, that's created more prosperity, more security, more greatness than anything ever. And they hate it. And why do they hate it? Because that system told them to go spend a quarter million dollars in college, go into debt to get your degree in gender studies and basket weaving from Brown, and then go out and get a job as a non profit organizer and then get MA and then when you realize you're not making enough, go get a master's degree and a PhD on top of that. Because spend another quarter million dollars and it'll get you a higher paying job. And they realize, actually no, now I'm over educated, no one wants to hire me and I'm broke and I'm going to go protest against, you know, the paternalistic white supremacist society. And I think that that has become such a vocal part of their base now that, you know, they have to be afraid that it's going to turn on them, which it is. I mean, last night I saw the video when Trump, when Joe Sifu is just down the road and there's these Hamas protesters calling him Hitler, like, you're Hitler. I'm like, you realize you're protesting for Hamas, which is an organization that is literally trying to kill all the Jews and Trump is defending the Jews and allowing them to exist and yet he's Hitler. I mean, but it's this cognitive dissonance that has really infected them. So I mean, listen, as I said before, I'm about building partnerships and getting shit done and that means working with my Democrat colleagues. But I do think right now they are buying into a losing message. I mean, if they think that their voter base wants guys stabbing women and neck on trains, if they want hobos shitting in the street, if they want tents on every street, they want their kids being attacked by, you know, schizophrenics. I mean, it's crazy. Yeah, people don't want that and my campaign was run on common sense, which is Americans want secure border, safe streets, cheap gas, cops are good, criminals are bad, boys, and boys, girls are girls.
- [52:38]
B
There we go.
- [52:39]
F
Those are, like, very simple axioms that.
- [52:41]
A
Can fit all that on a piece of literature.
- [52:43]
F
I love it.
- [52:44]
A
Yeah, no, it's a pretty clear message. Listen, I can't thank you enough for doing what you're doing. I do want to reschedule again where we can just tell jokes.
- [52:52]
F
Yeah, we can talk about that periwinkle schnapps bullshit tobacco pouches you guys use. Be a man. Smoke a cigarette.
- [53:01]
A
I would expect nothing less. So we're gonna have to redo that when we can have a little bit more. Yucks. But I can't tell you how much we appreciate you doing what you're doing and being there, because you're doing a hell of a lot of good. Senator Sheehy.
- [53:11]
F
Thank you. Thank you.
- [53:14]
A
So, listen, like I said, we taped all of that. When we first got news that Charlie was shot. We didn't know the final outcome of all that, and that's what the Senator was reacting to. And we really did want to talk. We wanted to have fun. But I do think there are components of that interview that are incredibly important in the broad scheme of things that you should probably take with you beyond this week that have nothing to do with what it is that we've been talking about for the entirety of this episode of somebody who understands in each component of his life what the job is and how to execute it. Like, that is so important.
- [53:56]
C
It's so important. It's incredible. The guy's mentality. You know, weirdest part about this job is now seeing the next generation of conservative leaders coming to a place in the United States Senate. He's 39 years old. His perspective is incredible. This guy's been a seal, he's been a business owner, and now he's in the United States Senate. And he, like, gets it at a level that is absolutely incredible. Like, we are honored to have that guy in the Senate.
- [54:24]
A
Totally. It just does a good job. And I think. I mean, look, to bring this full circle, I mean, that's what Charlie was doing. You know, that guy didn't wish for a single second that he would find a world as he wished it to be. He tried to change it. And, you know, that's what we can all hope to do.
- [54:47]
D
So you're right, buddy.
- [54:49]
A
With that, fellas, I think we did it.
- [54:51]
E
I think so. Thank you, everyone, for listening honestly. And please keep Charlie's family in your prayers. I can't imagine what they're going through. Thanks so much.