John Ashbrook (2:47)

Yeah.

Michael Duncan (2:49)

Okay. First question comes from Lisa Schutze. And Lisa, I apologize if I'm mispronouncing your last name, but your question is incredible. She writes for your holiday question Bonanza. I want to know the funniest thing your wives have said after one of your banger shows.

Josh Holmes (3:09)

Hmm. Well, mine's pretty easy because my wife doesn't listen to a show.

Michael Duncan (3:14)

I.

Josh Holmes (3:15)

In fact, I don't think she's ever listened to the show. No, she'll have some friends that'll be like, hey, they said this. And I'll get some commentary on, like, what are you doing? Like, that seems ridiculous, that kind of thing. But, like, I honest to God, don't think that my wife has ever downloaded an episode.

Michael Duncan (3:31)

I will tell you, my wife does listen some. But the thing that sticks out to me that she said happened in our very early days, and it wasn't about something that we talked about on the show. It was, I'm sitting in bed editing the audio on the show. And at the very beginning, Michael Duncan and I both edited the show, produced it, And I'm sitting there, it's like 11:30 at night. I'm trying to put it in so that it can go up early in the morning. And she's like, wait, are you working on that podcast again?

Josh Holmes (4:06)

And I was like, wait a minute.

Michael Duncan (4:09)

Why are you looking down on me?

Josh Holmes (4:12)

Oh, they hated it.

Smug (4:13)

This is important.

Michael Duncan (4:14)

This is a big project.

John Ashbrook (4:16)

Yeah. I mean, my wife, like Holmes wife, does not listen, which I think she takes as a point of pride. Supportive, nonetheless. Very supportive, as I'm sure your wife.

Josh Holmes (4:26)

Is increasingly, as it has shown, that it is going to actually do things.

John Ashbrook (4:31)

Yeah. It's come with its own difficulties, though. One quick story.

Josh Holmes (4:35)

Oh, yeah, can we do that?

John Ashbrook (4:37)

Let's do it.

Josh Holmes (4:38)

Yeah. Yeah, let's do it.

Smug (4:38)

Whatever.

John Ashbrook (4:40)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (4:41)

Yeah.

John Ashbrook (4:41)

Okay. So I don't know, maybe like a year and a half, two years into this thing, we started getting out there more like, doing live events, and, you know, we had parties and things like that, you know, around town. This is a great story.

Michael Duncan (4:54)

I just figured out what you were.

John Ashbrook (4:56)

Saying, and my wife was with me, and, you know, these very nice women come up and introduce themselves. You're Michael Duncan.

Josh Holmes (5:08)

Oh. Ruthless Podcast.

John Ashbrook (5:09)

And they're like, the biggest fans, yada, yada, yada. And at that point sort of clicked in my wife's head. Like, this is a real thing people are listening to, but she doesn't say anything. She doesn't say anything. And we go through the rest of the evening and everything, and then we get into the Uber on the way home, door closes, she goes, oh, so you have groupies now, huh?

Michael Duncan (5:30)

Wait a minute. Didn't one of them. And I apologize if I'm going too far.

Josh Holmes (5:36)

No, no, there is no too far. It's a holiday spectacular.

Michael Duncan (5:39)

Didn't one of them ask Katie to take a picture of you with them or something like that? Or did that happen?

John Ashbrook (5:47)

The way that it happened was I was talking to somebody else, and this woman approached my wife, not knowing she was my wife, and said, is that Michael Duncan, my wife, independent of me? And she's like, yeah.

Michael Duncan (6:02)

Why?

Josh Holmes (6:03)

Why do you want to know that?

John Ashbrook (6:04)

I want to know that. Why do you want to know who he is? Very funny, that.

Josh Holmes (6:10)

I mean, it was so. It was about the same time frame as we started doing a couple of live events, and my wife witnessed Ashbrook signing a pair of boobs from the stage.

Michael Duncan (6:20)

You know, I didn't actually do. It was a goof.

Josh Holmes (6:23)

It was a goof.

Michael Duncan (6:24)

It's somebody, a friend of ours put her sister up to, and she handed me a ballpoint pen and she was like, hey, will you do this? And I was like, wait, what? I was.

Josh Holmes (6:34)

But you carried through nevertheless, as one. As a good soldier.

John Ashbrook (6:37)

Yeah, he's a showman. As a showman.

Josh Holmes (6:39)

He's a showman.

Michael Duncan (6:39)

You know, it's a real show.

Josh Holmes (6:40)

Yeah, it's a real show. But my wife, I don't think, was in on the goof and was like, did John actually sign a pair of boots? And I was like, he sure did. You'd be surprised at how successful the show was.

John Ashbrook (6:55)

Smug's being awfully quiet in all of this.

Smug (6:57)

No.

John Ashbrook (6:58)

Has anyone noticed?

Smug (6:59)

I actually have a great story. A very recent one is. So I went with my wife to visit her parents, my in laws, over the holidays. And on our flight back, I guess my wife had been texting with her mom and she was like, I guess my wife says, I guess my mom didn't understand how big the show has gotten. And she brought it up at work, and I guess one of the younger guys was like, ruthless, that's my favorite show. And so, like, it finally dawned on her.

Josh Holmes (7:29)

She was like, oh, it's not. It's not a hobby.

Smug (7:31)

It's a real. It's a real show.

Josh Holmes (7:34)

Yeah. Well, how about I mean, what, we were like, number nine. Most. Most googled podcast in the world.

John Ashbrook (7:41)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (7:41)

I mean, how about that?

John Ashbrook (7:42)

Look at us.

Michael Duncan (7:43)

Great.

John Ashbrook (7:43)

Who would have thought?

Josh Holmes (7:44)

Who would have thought? Our wives don't. I mean, honestly, my wife is like, great. I mean, she could see that and.

Michael Duncan (7:51)

Be like, yeah, no, Khloe Kardashian. I think I mentioned this. Khloe Kardashian actually posted the picture with all the top podcasts, and I texted it to my wife and my daughters, and my wife responds, not sure you have the same followers, but pretty great. Fair enough.

John Ashbrook (8:12)

Keeping us humble. Keeping us humble.

Josh Holmes (8:14)

There's nothing but humility on the home front. No question about that. All right, question two. Dunks. What do we got?

John Ashbrook (8:19)

This from American Woman. They write. Serious question. What would one do to be able to get in on a Senate or a house race? I'm 53 years old. Most of my adult life, I didn't even pay attention to politics until Trump hit the scene. Now I realize how extremely important politics. Politics is, and I want to help save America.

Josh Holmes (8:40)

I love that.

John Ashbrook (8:41)

It's good sentiment.

Josh Holmes (8:42)

I love that. Listen, being involved is extremely important. That's what we preach here on the program, that all these things are going to happen to you or for you, but they're going to happen. And so you might as well be involved and understand what it is that's going on. I will say, you know, running for office, if you're talking about what she's talking about here, which is a Senate or House race, you're talking about a federal race. And there are no training wheels on that situation. If you haven't run for office before, I hate to tell you, but it's gonna require an awful lot of resources. There just is what it is. Because if you're vulnerable at all, the entirety of the Democratic Party is gonna come after you and try to knock you out with tens of millions of dollars. It used to be like Senate races were their own thing. They're like many presidential races in their own state. And that I've always said is short of President of the United States. The most difficult race you can run in, because you gotta have a grassroots network. You're gonna have to raise a ton of money and you have no mistakes.

John Ashbrook (9:49)

And the national media is breathing down your neck.

Josh Holmes (9:51)

Yeah. I mean, the New York Times is doing profile pieces of, like, you know, people who have been public figures for about two months. Meanwhile, they've got, like, 20 year fraudulent, like, you know, twice convicted pedophiles on the other side that they're like, I don't know, he seems like a good candidate.

Michael Duncan (10:07)

Right, right.

Josh Holmes (10:08)

You know, and so, like, you're gonna get all that scrut. I don't suggest that anybody who doesn't have like $100 million that they're interested in departing with jumps into a Senate race. Like, I think you should get active at the local level. No question about it. The best, most successful people I have seen who are new to the political scene have gotten involved and started going to like, we used to call it Minnesota, like bpou, which is like a local organizing unit with your party. You start going, start showing up and listening to people, listening to what it is that they care about being part of the machinery helping to elect other people. People get to know you and your heart that way. They can't question your integrity about wanting to be involved in the process if you're involved at the ground of somebody else's process when you're all trying to seek the same ends in terms of conservative governance. So I think that's really important. The House race, stuff like, look, there is no substitute for just getting to know people. There just isn't. You know, you'll have these wave elections where people just kind of figure out how to skid by and come from nowhere and be wiped in by a Trump majority because everybody on the Republican ticket wins. But for the most part, you're just gonna have to get to know people, don't you think, fellas?

Michael Duncan (11:29)

No, that's exactly right. There is no substitute for, for that. And if you're running and whether you're in a, whether you're in a wave cycle or not, if you don't know the people who you are running to represent intimately, then you're gonna, you're gonna miss the boat. And somebody else who knows them better is actually going to get the nomination or is going to win the election. You, you actually have to. And it's not just, it's not just the, A lot of people talk about grass tops. It's not just the most influential people in your community, although they're important, actual normal people who you are talking to will give you the concepts that you need to use to run on every single time, because it's base level. You are running to represent them. And if you are not pushing back out in your speeches and out when you're, when you're talking to other people, you're debating Democrats. If what you're saying doesn't reflect what the people want in their representative, you're.

John Ashbrook (12:35)

Not going to win well, and if you've never worked on a campaign, I recommend doing that too. Show up and volunteer, totally stop into your county GOP office and work the phones or knock doors and because like, being the candidate is one thing, but also understanding the mechanics of the election itself is really good knowledge. If you do end up deciding you'd want to run, and you might find out the closer you get to the actual process itself, it's not for you, but if it is for you, you want to know how it works before you jump in and do it.

Josh Holmes (13:04)

And there's a bunch of hucksters and politicians, the whole consultant class too. Like if you catch fire and you actually have something, you're going to be visited by every two bit clown that has ever been produced in party politics, who is like 15% off your ad buy, 10% off of your fundraising. Yeah, yeah, you know, I'll sit around and give you some tips about how to do it. And like, you just have to see that coming because these guys, they're persuasive, you know, they continue to be employed each and every year. But unless you understand, I think also.

Smug (13:41)

That'S why Duncan's advice is so sound, is if you, if you do start at the, at the, at the true grassroots level of you're petitioning to help a candidate get on the ballot, you're doing the door knocking, you're doing the phone banking. If you can see the mechanics when the petitions are getting submitted to the local board of elections, you see how they're getting certified, you see the whole process. If you know the ins and outs, if you decide to eventually run, you know the mechanics and you see it. So you don't get, you know, these hucksters showing up who are like, yeah, I got the petition process covered. You don't have to worry about it. Here's what the charge is going to be, here's how it's going to, here's how it's going to work. But also you get a better understanding of your community by doing that. If you've got, listen, if you knock on 1,000 doors, you probably have a better understanding of that district, of that community than any of the reporters that the New York Times is gonna have reporting on it. Because that not only puts you out there saying, okay, this is a tough job, actually reaching out to people, going door to door, doing that organizing, doing that voter id. But voter ID isn't just like, okay, I filled out the sheet that I'm given to identify whether this is person who's gonna support my Candidate or not, you slowly listen to people's stories and you pick up on what is the concern of that community. So if you do decide to run, if you do want to become part of the process, you understand what the community is actually looking for. And if you can serve the community's needs and run on it and address what they want, that's all it's about.

Josh Holmes (15:05)

Totally. And if you think it's about you.

Smug (15:07)

It'S not about you, you're wrong.

Josh Holmes (15:09)

I mean, if there's a one inkling of a thought in your head that this is some kind of a vanity play, don't do it, Doc.

Smug (15:17)

Voters will humble you fast.

Josh Holmes (15:18)

You will get Humb in an absolute hurry. There are no more Mr. Smiths. Go to Washington. What there are is a lot of Rudy's. Remember that old movie Rudy?

Michael Duncan (15:28)

Love that movie.

Josh Holmes (15:29)

A bunch of people were tackling dummies for three and a half years who understand and have earned the right to show up because they've been the tackling dummy. They put up the yard signs, they worked through the relationships, they've helped people along the way. They've tried. People trust them, you know, and I think that's probably my best advice. But please get involved. I don't want to say any of this to discourage you from.

Smug (15:55)

No, quite the opposite.

Josh Holmes (15:56)

Doing anything, it's just the right way to do it. If anybody thinks that, they're like, oh, I'm gonna sign up, I'm gonna put my name on a ballot and I'm just gonna be a candidate. Like, you're not gonna have a great experience, but if you've done the homework, and it's probably a two to four to six year thing for you to figure out whether or not you can adequately do the job people are asking you to do because you hear from them. Listening is the most important part of the whole.

Michael Duncan (16:22)

It's so important whole gig.

Josh Holmes (16:24)

Anyway, great question. I'm glad we got that one.

John Ashbrook (16:26)

Great question.

Josh Holmes (16:26)

All right, smug, what do we got?

Smug (16:27)

Question three is from Evieboy. And they ask. We are seeing a massive realignment where the GOP is becoming the party of the working class. If the Dems eventually realize they can't win with just college educated suburbanites, which specific progressive policy do you think they will be forced to abandon first to stop the bleeding?

John Ashbrook (16:45)

Open border? Yeah, I think so. I think it's the number one. Open border.

Josh Holmes (16:48)

It's a pretty good answer.

Smug (16:50)

I don't know. I think they cling to that. I think first would be probably the trans thing because it doesn't translate into money or votes necessarily. I think the open borders thing, like look at what's happening in these Somali Minnesota communities. You know, like them having an open border. Anyone gets in here, let's get them on the dole and then they give us the vote. I think that is a system that they've become reliant on is basically being like, no, this person who just arrived here yesterday is just as American as you or me. Just I have to allocate money from the taxpayer to them and then they vote for me. That's the most American thing possible.

Michael Duncan (17:25)

So I have a modified version of what both of you guys said because I think every cycle is a little bit different. Every cycle is based on the current conversation as it develops in the two years prior. And I think think that there's so much attention right now on this fraud in Minnesota and the rampant spread to every other state that I do think fraud in public services is something that's going to be on the top of mind of so many voters in we're talking about 2026. I think that it's going to be really hard for Democrats to get the middle of the road voters if they're not addressing this fraud. Because you know, we talked about this on Tuesday. So many Dem voters are, you know, conditioned to believe that the government can do something for them. And if the idea that the government can do something for them is undercut even further than it ever has been by these foreigners who are coming in and stealing the money from poor Americans who rely on it, like that is, that's not good for them.

John Ashbrook (18:28)

I agree with you. I just think the open border has second and third order effects across all these other things we're talking about.

Smug (18:34)

Yeah, it's true.

John Ashbrook (18:34)

Like whether it's, you know, people getting in across the border to defraud Medicaid and Medicare or you know, these daycare situations or drugs and crime and the just general lawlessness in our country. There's a lot of issues that people vote on that fall under the umbrella of like here's this thing, this obvious thing you refuse to fix that's a cause of all of these other ills in our society.

Josh Holmes (18:56)

Yeah, I mean you hit on what I was gonna say, which is the lawlessness component. Like anytime you were party who basically turns a blind eye to violent crime because the constituency that's committing said crimes votes for you, I think that's problematic. And you know, even in the question they talk about college educated suburbanites. You can't win with Just them? Well, I don't know. In midterms, they can and they have.

Michael Duncan (19:20)

Right?

Josh Holmes (19:21)

But you can't win with them if you've turned a blind eye to. Every time they go downtown for a football game, a baseball game, a theater play, or their kid has got to go and they're, like, accosted and assaulted and robbed. Like, all of a sudden, that becomes a huge problem for them. And I think it's not just a permissive culture within Democratic politics. It's actually encouraged in some ways. Because, again, it goes back to our Tuesday show. We talk about, like, well, if you're saying that this is a problem, you're a racist. And that's the insulation that they have built in their coalitions and how they see the macro political country and how they vote. If we can just convince everybody we're on your side because these guys want to do stuff to you and these guys don't. And these are, like, urbanites or whatever. Like, that's how they see. They view everybody as a cylinder. They don't view upward mobility in this country is a virtue. They see it as, like, as long as we can keep people beholden to what it is that we've prescribed for them and we can dole out these things that their community leaders can send to Mogadishu or whatever. Like, then we have them and they're hooked. And that's what. The way that. I think that that kind of links together all three of the things that we've talked about here. We were talking about immigration, you're talking about the fraud, you're talking about all these things that ultimately, it's just about the power structure that Democrats have built for themselves that includes crime.

Smug (20:58)

It's like, does Tim Waltz want to door knock and figure out how can my constituent services deal with the issues of this person and now one door over and this person and now one door over this. Or do I just check the box on this program that ships billions of dollars to these daycare centers and I give votes. Which do you think he'd pick?

Josh Holmes (21:20)

Yeah. A close second to mine, by the way, and I won't get into it. Was the radical environmentalism.

Michael Duncan (21:25)

Oh, yeah.

Josh Holmes (21:26)

Which I think doesn't.

Smug (21:27)

It feels like they've kind of learned that no one wants to.

Josh Holmes (21:31)

They started to. Because there is actual. No constituency for it. It's just funded by billionaires, which they are beholden to try to run these political races. The constituency that they're hoping to win over is directly affected by. By that activism.

Michael Duncan (21:45)

Right.

Josh Holmes (21:45)

The union Laborers, the blue collar workers, all the people are paying the price for them adopting that as a platform. Like, but I. The reason I didn't say it is because I think that that's, like, already nobody.

Michael Duncan (21:58)

That's a good point. That's a really good point.

Josh Holmes (21:59)

Already moving. Listen, we're gonna get to more of your questions right after this.

Michael Duncan (22:06)

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Josh Holmes (23:14)

Okay, more of your questions. We always start with a voice. This one seems particularly apropos of the voice.

Michael Duncan (23:21)

Okay, this question's from Adam Schiavone. Adam asks if a neutral party wanted to try Skyline Chili for the first time, is within driving distance, and wants to assess for himself. How would you suggest going about it? Which location? Just order the Skyline Chili. Walk us through this, and. Okay, I guess I'm the right person to start with on this.

Smug (23:47)

So basically, it's raccoon simulator. You jump into a dumpster, and you just go, ham. And that's what you have.

John Ashbrook (23:53)

Well, I was gonna say you go to the closest Petsmart and you find the dog food, and you pick up the Alpo Extra Chunky, and you open that can up and you put it over some really wet spaghetti.

Smug (24:04)

There it is.

Josh Holmes (24:04)

I was thinking that maybe you took the red food dye that RFK banned. Red dye 40, put it in about 8 ounces of water, and poured over noodles, and there you go.

Michael Duncan (24:14)

Obviously, none of my co hosts appreciate flavor. Skyline Chili is delicious. If I had one more meal to eat on this planet, I would eat chili spaghetti. But let me answer the question.

Andrew Bremberg (24:27)

Okay.

Michael Duncan (24:29)

If you want Skyline Chili and you want to try it, you have to go to a location. You can order it. They have it available at KROGER'S or some of the Kroger's affiliates. You can order it online and you can try to make it yourself, but it's not the same as if you go in person and you have it fresh with one.

Josh Holmes (24:52)

Fresh is in quotation.

Michael Duncan (24:54)

One proviso, one single proviso is that you can order a can of it and you can make Skyline chili dip. And let me just explain to you how you make Skyline Chili dip. Okay? It's a base layer of cream cheese on the bottom of a 9x13. On top of that, you open a can of Skyline chili that you buy at the store. You pour that on and make sure it's spread evenly. And on top of that, you put cheddar cheese.

John Ashbrook (25:20)

Whoa.

Michael Duncan (25:20)

And then you dip.

Josh Holmes (25:22)

Wow.

John Ashbrook (25:23)

Did you read that in Bon Appetit? Yeah. Did.

Smug (25:27)

Did you get that? You had Skyline chili in a pan, and there you go. You've got the dip.

John Ashbrook (25:31)

I couldn't have guessed that's what it was.

Josh Holmes (25:33)

You got Emeril over here taking notes on the thing. How do we do that again?

Smug (25:37)

Can I just say, this is the.

Josh Holmes (25:39)

It's good.

Smug (25:40)

It's a good dip. The truth of you put it in the oven. The truth of Skyline Chili is you don't try it. You don't have to try it, because it's a weird thing, because this is, like, Cincinnati. This part of Ohio is, like, bombed out, depleted, impoverished. Anyone who can escape from Cincinnati has escaped from Cincinnati.

John Ashbrook (26:02)

Next will be Joe Burrow. But they have no.

Smug (26:04)

But they have this, like.

Michael Duncan (26:05)

Please.

Smug (26:05)

No. They have this, like, weird point of pride. Like, you never hear people get out of jail, and they're like, you know, what I miss is the liquor I made in the toilet, you know? But, like, for people in Cincinnati, they have this, like, weird kind of like, shared trauma of being in this, like, bombed out shithole. And they're like, part of what we did is, like, eat spaghetti and fucked up chili. And we're proud of this. You know, usually when you escape, like, you know, you talk to Vietnam veterans who were. Oh, my God. Who were at the Hanoi Hotel. They're not like, you know, I missed the fucked up shit they did to us in there. But Cincinnati people, for some reason want to celebrate this weird, fucked up thing they had to eat when they were there. You've escaped, dude. There's no point to, like, go back and be like, I want to relive before I had escaped. You know, like, there's a lot of well functioning people who have escaped Cincinnati. Basically, if you're in Cincinnati, you haven't escaped, right? So, like, if you're visiting for some reason, unfortunately, like, you know, for work or whatever, you don't have to try it. It's not like I go to Chicago and I have the deep dish pizza.

Josh Holmes (27:05)

I know, it's terrible.

Smug (27:07)

You know, the people there are deluding themselves. I'm not gonna take part in the delusion. But Cincinnati, the Skyline chili is like an exceptional example of people diluting themselves into what is just a struggle meal is actually a good thing to be celebrated.

Michael Duncan (27:19)

That, ladies and gentlemen, is the sound of jealousy. Skyline is delicious. I encourage you to try it as soon as you can.

Josh Holmes (27:30)

I love it. Okay, we gotta move on dunks. What do we got?

John Ashbrook (27:34)

This is from Sam Kallos. Sam writes final two questions. Who are your journalistic giants? What actually changed for the program since the deal?

Josh Holmes (27:45)

Those are good questions. And I wanted to noted for the audience that this is not something that we have, like, sat and pontificated an answer to. Like, we're hearing these for the first time. Journalistic giants is tough because we came of age in an era where everything changed so quickly and that you can look back, like, you know, I look back at, like, the Morley Safers and the Mike Wallaces and the people who did the 60 Minutes thing when it was supposed to be 60 Minutes, like, the way it was supposed, it was always left leaning, but it was actually, like, in depth. And you got answers to real questions. And they were dicks and they were all. And like, I always have had reverence for that. For a guy that I've worked with, though, in the last 25 years, there was this guy named Dave Espo at the Associated Press. I don't know what his ideology is. I don't have a clue. And I think that's the greatest compliment that I could pay someone in the era where I've had to deal with political journalism of anybody in that he was just an equal opportunity asshole. He just was. And I loved him for it. And we got along famously because he'd.

Smug (28:58)

Be like, you're lying.

Josh Holmes (29:00)

And I'd be like, I'm not. Here's the paper. He's like, yeah, I don't buy it. And then the other side, I would come and show him something, and he would go to the other people and be like, you're a liar. And here's the. And he would. It's not like every story went our way. To the contrary, like, many went the wrong way. But he was just a journalist and he was the Head of Associated Press back in, like, I want to say the 0506-0708. Probably long before that, but when I was coming of age that I thought, like, that's to be admired at some level.

John Ashbrook (29:36)

That's nice. Smug. I'm sure yours will be just as thoughtful.

Smug (29:41)

Boy, I'd say. Joe Kernan, cnbc.

Josh Holmes (29:45)

Oh, that's a good one.

Smug (29:47)

I used to watch that in the mornings with my dad. And I got a chance to meet him at one of the Nixon foundations events. And he is just as cool.

Josh Holmes (29:58)

Apparently he's a fan of the program.

Smug (30:00)

I mean, he's just an awesome guy. All around awesome guy. He's been at it for decades. Super reliable guy. Also just like more mainstream, non financial, I'd say like Peter Jennings, I always thought was.

Josh Holmes (30:12)

Oh, that's a good one, dude.

Smug (30:13)

Real, real serious guy.

Michael Duncan (30:15)

Yeah, nice.

John Ashbrook (30:19)

Hadn't really come prepared with a specific journalist. Maybe like, more like there's styles of journalism that I don't think we have as much of in this country any more. Like, I mean, this Nick guy who did the whole Minnesota fraud thing that we covered on Tuesday, like that sort of undercover journalism I really appreciate a lot. You know, like, I feel like that is something that we need a lot.

Josh Holmes (30:45)

More the on your side type, local news stuff.

Smug (30:50)

That was real stuff. That was real journalism.

John Ashbrook (30:52)

We used to have, like a really rich history of that in this country. All the way back to like Upton Sinclair or like Nellie Bly who, like, checked herself into an insane asylum. Like, that sort of stuff is like really good journalism.

Josh Holmes (31:05)

That's a good take.

John Ashbrook (31:06)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (31:06)

All right, so we'll go to the journalist.

Michael Duncan (31:08)

So I have.

Smug (31:09)

Go through the Rolodex of friends. Let's hear it.

Michael Duncan (31:11)

I have.

Josh Holmes (31:12)

It's nothing but contemporaries.

Smug (31:14)

It's gonna be like. It's his groomsman. It's gonna be his groomsmen.

John Ashbrook (31:18)

Hell, yeah.

Michael Duncan (31:19)

I have a bunch of names I could say. And the first one I was gonna say was Nick Shirley. Because I think that guy is the future of journalism. What he did was incredible. But if I got to think of another one, the first name that comes to mind is a guy who passed probably like five or six years ago. His name is Robert Pear. Oh, he was a. Yeah, I remember him well. He wrote for the New York Times. He was a healthcare reporter. And this, he was the kind of old school giorno who was very well sourced. Would constantly try to write the story as it was, you know, as factually presentable as he possibly could. Could present it well.

Josh Holmes (31:59)

So I think to put a finer point on that, we were. We dealt with him a lot during Obamacare because he was like the health care reporter at the New York Times. But he didn't give a shit what the rhetoric was.

Michael Duncan (32:07)

Right.

Josh Holmes (32:07)

Gave no shits.

Michael Duncan (32:08)

Like, he wasn't about critical.

Josh Holmes (32:10)

It wasn't about the quotes on either side. He thought they were both full of shit. He would, like, actually read the text of the bill and come back with committee staff and us in leadership and be like, what are these things? And then you had answers to it. And he would sort his way through it one way or another. And his whole attempt at. And you can make arguments about whether he was left or center or not, but his whole attempt was trying to make the indecipherably complicated less complicated. For a reader, which.

Michael Duncan (32:43)

Healthcare is notoriously complicated. I mean, that's why they build the system the way they did, so they can make money. And you're, like, left confused just paying your bill every month. And he. He was really smart. He. He was, in my experience, a very honest guy. And one of my favorite stories about him was a bunch of my friends were going to a Christmas party, and at the cbo, which. You know, who goes to a Christmas party at the cbo?

Josh Holmes (33:09)

Oh, my God.

Michael Duncan (33:11)

Nobody goes. Unless you're a journo who wants to. Is trying to, like, build your. Your sources.

Smug (33:16)

Amazing.

Josh Holmes (33:17)

Do you imagine a worst Christmas party?

Michael Duncan (33:18)

Yeah. And so. And they're generation behind Robert Pear. They're closer to our agenda.

John Ashbrook (33:24)

Again, this is a Christmas party at.

Michael Duncan (33:26)

The budget, at the. Yeah. Congressional Budget Office. So they are with bean counters. Yeah. Yeah. So they all go over to the Christmas party together, and Robert Pear is with them, and they're like, okay, well, I guess it's in room xyz. And of course, the CBO building is put way apart from polite society because they know that all the nerds can't be around all the normies.

Josh Holmes (33:49)

You can't have that. Yeah.

Michael Duncan (33:50)

And they get to the building, and Robert Pear looks at the group, and he's like, I have a meeting with somebody down on the basement floor. And they're like, what? We're here for the Christmas party we didn't even really want to go to. And you have a meeting down in the basement among the files. And to me, it stuck out. Is like, this guy is so well sourced and so committed to his work every single day of the week that he's walking to the basement and meeting with somebody so that he could get it right when everybody else that he's walking over there with is like, I don't even want to be here drinking with these people. So that really stuck out to me. And I think he was a really good person and I think he's my journalistic giant.

Smug (34:34)

Can I also say I want to give a special shout out Bill Hemmer, who I learned when we did the Christmas special Up with Fox, he is actually like the coolest dude. Like, you see him on tv. He's the most serious journalist who's on the job. He nails it. But when he's off the clock, he's just a dude you want to hang out with.

Josh Holmes (34:56)

He's a great guy. Don't say where he's from because we'll get into Wolf Skyline choice.

Michael Duncan (35:02)

We all know. Everybody knows.

Josh Holmes (35:04)

Everybody knows. So the second part of this was what has actually changed for the program since or a Fox deal? You're seeing it not a whole lot. The only thing that is, I think, different in our lives is that we do a lot more Fox. We're asked to do a lot more commentary on the network on a weekend, week out basis, which we love. And we enjoy being able to talk to you through a different medium and get to know everybody over there, which I, you know, I feel like it's an extended family at this point. They've been so gracious and welcoming to us into that world. But I feel like that's kind of the only, like, content clearly hasn't changed shockingly.

Smug (35:45)

Thank God.

John Ashbrook (35:46)

You know, in fact, quite the opposite with the addition of Funtime Friday, which I feel like is uniquely off the rails.

Josh Holmes (35:51)

You're right. That is. That is a tangible difference. Yeah, we did three episodes at the end of the 2024 election. We picked it back up with our Fox deal. So we have Funtime Friday for all of you, but other than that, are we doing anything?

Smug (36:06)

I think also the folks we get to hang out with, like, they let us have Bret Baer.

Josh Holmes (36:11)

Oh, yeah.

Smug (36:12)

Who wants to just hang out and play golf, but you guys are always against it. I'm always down to hang out, Brett.

John Ashbrook (36:16)

Okay, okay.

Josh Holmes (36:19)

Now, it's super fun, but there hasn't been a lot of changes in our lives, to be honest with you. Next question. And I believe this is mine. Susan Decker. Have you all ever invited a Dem on to ask the tough questions and hold them accountable? I doubt anybody would say yes to the invite, but would love to see it happen, so.

Michael Duncan (36:42)

Well, this is a great question because Smug is a co host. Yeah, we have a Dem on the show.

Smug (36:48)

What was the name of the gal who was a journo who was considering running. And we invited her. And then, like, I mean.

Josh Holmes (36:55)

Oh, we've invited a lot.

Smug (36:57)

No, I mean, we have invited plenty, but this is recently. And, like, we uncovered all these very interesting things from her Instagram.

Josh Holmes (37:02)

She was a candidate for about seven minutes after we did our show.

Michael Duncan (37:05)

That's right.

Josh Holmes (37:06)

You're right.

Smug (37:06)

I guess I'm not running.

Josh Holmes (37:07)

She was an ill journalist completely.

Michael Duncan (37:09)

I don't even remember her. Let me. I gotta Google that.

Josh Holmes (37:12)

But there's a. There's a fair number that we invite that, you know, for obvious reasons, they don't wanna come on. I think it's mistake on their part, in large part because, like, you're gonna have a good conversation one way or another. They have an opportunity. We're not, like, you know, gonna crush them with, like, ad hominem attacks, although we're not immune to that. But. But we will bring the facts.

Smug (37:38)

And that's the thing is, like, if you're unwilling to have your views challenged, what business do you think you have representing anybody?

Michael Duncan (37:45)

Right? And to answer your question, Hannah Trudeau.

Josh Holmes (37:49)

That's it. Yeah, that's it.

John Ashbrook (37:50)

Real gem.

Michael Duncan (37:51)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (37:52)

But we would have. We would have others on. In fact, I know we've invited many people. Fetterman, welcome here anytime. To have a conversation. There's just not. These people are so isolated, and they just do not care about questions that you, a listener of the Ruthless Variety Program, would have for them.

John Ashbrook (38:14)

Well, and then also, I mean, they're not stupid. And for all of you listening or watching this, like, you know, we've got. Had professional careers in politics for most of our lives. Like, we've made careers out of destroying Democrats. So, like, I don't think they would willfully step into the studio to be questioned by us.

Smug (38:34)

And this is also fair.

John Ashbrook (38:36)

You know what I mean?

Josh Holmes (38:36)

Right.

Smug (38:37)

Part of the problem for Democrats is they won total control of the media, right? They had the New York Times, Washington Post, all of them, writing exactly what they wanted.

Josh Holmes (38:47)

They're just coming to grips with the fact that that's not gonna do the trick.

Smug (38:49)

That's the thing.

Josh Holmes (38:51)

So we'll see. Maybe there will be more. That. Come on. They're not gonna get a free ride, though, to your point. Dunks, right? Like, we have built somewhat of a reputation before we started doing the Ruthless Variety Program about being people who are not, like, easily bowled over by those kind of things. So we'll see. We'll keep the requests coming. Listen, we gotta get to our Interview Andrew Bremberg. Very, very interesting guy. Take a listen. Well, I don't know if you've noticed, but there's a bit of a health care debate that's happening in the nation's capital. Captivated, I think, much of the political class, of course, Democrats who built Obamacare all of a sudden turned around and decided it wasn't affordable.

John Ashbrook (39:35)

Oh, it's a problem now.

Josh Holmes (39:36)

It's an Affordable Care act, but it's no longer affordable. So we look for answers on that. We endeavor to try to find the best ones we can. A guy that we thought of is a guy I used to work with and Johnny used to work with Andrew Bremberg. I gotta tell you, not only were you a Trump One policy guy in this area, you got international credentials. UN ambassador.

Michael Duncan (40:01)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (40:02)

I mean, this is like, this is a big deal.

John Ashbrook (40:04)

Big shot. We got a big shot.

Josh Holmes (40:06)

A real big shot.

Michael Duncan (40:07)

Huh? Trouble.

Josh Holmes (40:09)

Yeah, it is trouble. How are you?

Andrew Bremberg (40:12)

I'm doing great and you guys are doing awesome. I want to say, hey, Merry Christmas. I know Ashbrook isn't here, so he loses out. These are Buckeyes.

Josh Holmes (40:20)

Okay.

Andrew Bremberg (40:20)

Merry Christmas.

Smug (40:21)

All right.

Josh Holmes (40:21)

Well, I'm sure Ashbrook will be actually more Ohio. I don't want him to know that I love Buckeyes.

John Ashbrook (40:29)

Oh.

Josh Holmes (40:30)

Just because, you know, I don't know, implication that we're endorsing something that he's advocating for now.

John Ashbrook (40:36)

Did you make these yourself?

Andrew Bremberg (40:37)

Those are family made.

John Ashbrook (40:38)

Oh, okay.

Andrew Bremberg (40:39)

I made them myself. My, my, My family's from the great state of Ohio, so. But I did not actually make these myself, so they're probably safe to eat. You.

Josh Holmes (40:48)

Yeah. Responsible guy, too. He's brought his son in, who's like a well adjusted individual, that's how, you know.

John Ashbrook (40:53)

And a friend of the program.

Josh Holmes (40:54)

And a friend of the program. I love it. Well, thanks. Yeah, no, you do, you do.

Andrew Bremberg (40:59)

I mean, you've got kids. You know what it's like.

Josh Holmes (41:01)

It's the thing.

Andrew Bremberg (41:02)

It is.

Josh Holmes (41:02)

You gotta pay attention to that above all else. But listen, we're in a big affordability fight in healthcare and we do find it endlessly amusing that Democrats, despite the universal warnings from the Republican Party that what they were attempting to do with Obamacare was gonna break a marketplace and make things vastly more expensive that they have now turned around and been like, why are you making this more expensive?

Andrew Bremberg (41:27)

Right, right.

Josh Holmes (41:28)

But this is an area of expertise for you. I mean, you worked in the first Trump administration. You guys were really active, by the way. And what are your thoughts?

Andrew Bremberg (41:38)

Yeah, well, I mean, you're exactly right. That, you know, they managed to turn in this issue. That's a really small issue in terms of a subset of the people on exchanges helped by Obamacare and the expiring tax subsidies that went to insurance companies, where they're trying to figure out how do we just keep subsidizing people to pay more and more and more for health care? And instead of talking about lowering the actual cost of health care for not just a small subset, but for, you know, 160, 180 million Americans who get their health care in the private sector, where costs have gone up, you know, year over year, double digit premium increases for people who get their insurance through good jobs. You know, I don't know what your insurance has done, but the insurance costs all over the place, 10%, 20%. We've seen places where, like unions have 30%.

Michael Duncan (42:22)

Yeah.

Andrew Bremberg (42:22)

Health care cost increases in one year. And this is completely unustainable. This is killing people. And Democrats are not addressing this.

John Ashbrook (42:28)

And that was the funniest cognitive dissonance of this whole sort of debate we were having during this shutdown, at least for me. Were Democrats warning us of these price increases again on a bill or a health care system that they built? But it was during open season in which we were already seeing the increase. We already saw the quotes. We know what's going up. You're not telling us anything we don't know. But you're the ones who did it to us.

Josh Holmes (42:53)

Yeah, yeah. And like you said, it is a subset of the population in that the rest of America who has been getting their health insurance through employer or what have you, has had these massive increases over the last 15 years. And yet we're acting as though this tax credit that they passed on a partisan line is somehow going to help that population. It's not nothing.

Andrew Bremberg (43:20)

That's right. And you talked about, you know, how President Trump gets these issues. This is something that he firmly understood in the first term, understood the issue of really delivering for the American people. On health care, one of the things that he learned and addressed was that the health care sector in the United States is unlike virtually every other sector of our economy, where there are no prices, there is no transparency, no one knows what the heck anything costs, and it's kept entirely secret. So in the first term, he did an executive order directing his agencies to make prices transparent. So start taking actions to do this, and, you know, the bureaucracy has to come to work. It took time. Those regulations finally got done. But then you have the Biden administration and Again, this is just price transparency. So, you know, this is a bipartisan issue. If you've seen the polling on this, it's like 90 to 96% of people think you should see the prices for health care. First four years of nothing, no enforcement, no improvements in the regulations. There is no. You still can't see the prices.

Josh Holmes (44:18)

Like, why do that when you just throw dollars at it?

Andrew Bremberg (44:20)

Just keep throwing money at it. Just keep throwing money. And guess what? Like the hospitals and health insurance companies, they're all for you, just spending more money.

John Ashbrook (44:27)

Well.

Andrew Bremberg (44:27)

And it works well for them.

John Ashbrook (44:29)

It seems like such a common sense thing Holmes often tells me about during the original Obamacare fight when he was on the Hill, you know, just as sort of a thought experiment, calling around to various, you know, hospitals pick up the horn and be like, hey, what does an X ray cost?

Michael Duncan (44:43)

Right.

Josh Holmes (44:43)

Right.

John Ashbrook (44:44)

Tell you, couldn't tell you. And you call. It doesn't matter if you're calling, you know, Paducah, you're calling Midland, or you call, you know, cities all around the country, you can't get clear answers on these things. And it seems like everywhere else in our economy you can do that.

Michael Duncan (44:59)

Right.

John Ashbrook (44:59)

So why not in healthcare?

Josh Holmes (45:00)

It's kind of the fundamental of a market. Yeah, a market economy. It's got the capitalism thing that I felt like we all bought into until, like, you know, Democrats in these days.

Andrew Bremberg (45:11)

Exactly. And then one of the last things that President Trump actually did in his first term, one of the laws he signed going out the door, if you guys remember, these big omnibus appropriations bills at the end of the year that included a bill called the no Surprises act in it, December 2020, to stop surprise bills, make sure people know what things are going to cost. And it required that you guys both have kids, you've dealt with medical issues, hospitalizations, bills. After you get care, you have no idea what you're dealing. And going in afterwards, a month or two months later, you get an explanation of benefits in the mail saying it cost this much, thousand dollars, and this is what you're going to have to pay and these sort of things. And people thought, wouldn't it be nice to have that, like, before the surgery rather than after the surgery?

Josh Holmes (45:52)

It'd be great if my insurance company had head stitches for two boys under 10 as like something you could pay a premium for. Because I feel like every six weeks I'm dealing with that.

Andrew Bremberg (46:03)

And the amazing thing is that's actually the law now, is that in that bill that President Trump signed, it said if you schedule care in advance. So maybe you don't schedule the stitches. Yeah, I'm not scheduling less common, but you should get this advanced explanation of benefits. If you scheduled your care and that was supposed to take effect in 2022, never happened. Biden administration sat on it for four years, and now President Trump and his administration have the opportunity to implement that for the American people right now.

Josh Holmes (46:31)

Did the Biden administration ever provide an explanation for it? It seems pretty straightforward.

Andrew Bremberg (46:35)

It's very straightforward, yes. They dutifully put out, like, requests for information by the bureaucracy, saying, this seems really hard and complicated to U.S. insurance companies. What do you think?

Josh Holmes (46:46)

And they're like, well, it's really hard to the H954.

John Ashbrook (46:49)

We'll just create a steering committee and we'll study the issue. Maybe some listening sessions.

Josh Holmes (46:54)

Well, if we can focus it back through the PBM that we own in the pharmacy that we own, and then the other thing that we own, and we can push them all together at Some point by 2030, you should have an answer.

Andrew Bremberg (47:04)

That's exactly it. So now, hopefully, you know, President Trump, this time, around the beginning of this year, he issued a new executive order re upping the prioritization of radical price transparency. I mean, he means it when he says it. He knows, like, he's never done business where he doesn't see or know the cost.

Josh Holmes (47:18)

Yeah.

Andrew Bremberg (47:19)

I mean, like, shocking, right? So it's like, this is ridiculous. You should never pay for anything that you don't know the price of. So his agencies are working right now to implement these reporting requirements for public transparency and to get patients their prices before scheduled care. I mean, it's the law, and we should have it. I mean, this is ridiculous that we don't. So if we can deliver that to the American people, this is not a subsidy that helps a small set of people. This is something that helps every patient in the country that faces really high, potentially really high health care costs.

Josh Holmes (47:48)

Well, it's kind of thing that can bend the curve over time.

Andrew Bremberg (47:50)

Absolutely right.

Josh Holmes (47:51)

I mean, because if you're responsive to people who are shopping for health care, like you shop for everything else in this country, you got to make a competitive bid.

Smug (48:00)

That's right.

John Ashbrook (48:00)

Holmes, are you telling me that price pressures lead to efficiencies in a marketplace?

Josh Holmes (48:04)

As it turns out.

John Ashbrook (48:05)

That's crazy.

Josh Holmes (48:06)

As it turns out, you know, we've had a pretty good run with that sort of thing here on literally everything.

John Ashbrook (48:11)

Else in our lives. Right.

Andrew Bremberg (48:12)

Every sector, you know.

Michael Duncan (48:14)

Right.

Andrew Bremberg (48:14)

Except for health care, where the cost just keep doing this like Year after year, year after year. And so not only 10 patients then shop, but the other thing that's so great that I'm really looking forward to. So President Trump, in his executive orders has told the Department of Labor, and I know you had Laurie on here recently as well. They're doing great work over there. You know, most people get their insurance from their employer or a union, and those are all regulated by like by DOL and you know, ERISA plans that in terms of how people get those plans and those plans are getting ripped off and stolen from today. Like all the different insurers that are supposed to work for them don't they hide their information, don't show them what their actual costs are. They don't even know what they're paying for the actual care they deliver. So her department has an opportunity to do a big regulation in this space that they're working on to really make sure that they know whether it's the PBMs or the third party administrators or all the different vertically integrated actors in the healthcare system, they disclose to the plan sponsor, the employer or the union, here's how we get paid. Here's what we do for you and who else is paying us? Shocking. And here's your claims, here's what your costs actually are.

Josh Holmes (49:19)

Listen, if that were to happen, I mean, that would be the biggest breakthrough of all time. I mean, because you do have these insurance companies that have made a business model out of hiding all of this and sort of coming up with three to four sets of integrated cash transfers between the patient and their care. And what boggles the mind the most, and this has been true since I started doing healthcare stuff back in Obamacare days, is that the answer from Democrats is one of two things. What they ultimately want to do, which is just like the DMV of health care, right? Just be the National Health Service. That's right.

Michael Duncan (50:01)

Single.

Josh Holmes (50:01)

Never mind the fact that anybody who has nationalized health care flies here to get their care if they can afford it, because it's like substandard, to say the least. But then they also just answer prices and everything else by just taking money, same way they do with college loans. They just take money out of the taxpayer's wallet and throw it at insurance companies.

John Ashbrook (50:25)

Never asking the question, is that the right price for the thing? No, you know, never.

Josh Holmes (50:30)

And then the insurance, lo and behold, goes up by. I don't know about the amount that you threw.

John Ashbrook (50:35)

Would you look at that?

Andrew Bremberg (50:36)

They're like, well, shocking.

Josh Holmes (50:37)

We might have priced it into the marketplace.

Andrew Bremberg (50:39)

That's right. Inflation ran at 3% and the health care costs went up 10%, 15%.

Josh Holmes (50:43)

Like that's wild, right?

Andrew Bremberg (50:45)

That's right.

Josh Holmes (50:45)

I mean, you don't have to have much more than just like a simple math. If you took a class just called math, right. It doesn't need to be algebra, it doesn't need to be anything, just math.

Andrew Bremberg (50:54)

I think you look at that. This will shock you. If you look at economists right now that talk about this issue left, right and center, they recently did a study and analysis and a couple of letters here in Washington about how if you just had price transparency across the healthcare system, you'd save a trillion with a t trillion dollars back into our economy.

John Ashbrook (51:14)

Geez.

Andrew Bremberg (51:14)

I mean, that's real money. Even by Washington standards.

Josh Holmes (51:17)

Even by Washington standards. That's real money. Of course, it's basically the first nine months of a Biden administration. But it is real money.

Andrew Bremberg (51:26)

It is real money. And to your point about what the other option is, I just worry. We've never had real free market health care in our system. It's so messed up. There are no prices, we don't know how it works. And if we don't get this fixed, I mean, I think the Trump administration, Republicans are poised right now to deliver for the American people. I think they can do it before the midterms, really make an impact on helping people. People see tangibly this makes a difference because if we don't, like whenever, like the next time the Democrats get in charge, I think it's like game over, single payer. Like they went out to play with Obamacare last time, they couldn't get all the way. Next time they're going for it.

Josh Holmes (51:59)

So you create two entitlements and you expand the eligibility for both until they're just an inch apart and then you break the system in the middle.

Andrew Bremberg (52:06)

That's right.

Josh Holmes (52:07)

That's the intent.

Andrew Bremberg (52:08)

That's right.

Josh Holmes (52:09)

Right. That's what they intend to do. So we gotta fix it before that happens. Listen, Andrew Bremberg, you are a good friend of the program. Thank you so much for coming on. Appreciate everything you're up to. Keep us updated on this. There's gonna be a big healthcare debate next year.

Andrew Bremberg (52:21)

I know. I'm really glad Congress talked about it at the end of the year. They're coming back in January in the Senate. You've got Senator Cassidy, Senator Marshall talking a lot about this right now. I don't know if you've had them on the program yet, but they're talking about transparency. They've got the patients deserve price tags act that will really solidify and codify all this right now. And in the house I saw Scalise was on. He's so great. And they're behind this too. So I think we can really see real momentum in Q1 of next year to really deliver and get this done.

Josh Holmes (52:51)

It's great news. All right, Andrew Bremberg, everybody.

Michael Duncan (52:56)

I mean, Bremberg is such a good guy. And of course, you mentioned at the top of the show that we used to work with him. And one of the things I remember about him is he had this gigantic dog named Titan in addition to all the kids. You know, Bremberg is, as leads, one of the great Catholic families in our area. So naturally they have a ton of kids. But he was always talking about his kids. He was always talking about his dog, Titan. And this is a guy who was always committed to his work, committed to the mission.

Josh Holmes (53:25)

Yeah, yeah, it's great. It's a really good interview. I'm glad we had him on. Listen, we have some best of variety that we. We did a little preview of some of this stuff on a previous episode, I think last week. Good reviews, lot of feedback. People loved it. So we were like, ah, let's package up more because there's so much to deal with. You guys are gonna love this. Take a look. So our second story.

John Ashbrook (53:53)

This is.

Smug (53:54)

This is really good.

Josh Holmes (53:55)

It relates to the first in many ways. The New Yorker, a publication that none of you, not a single one of you, subscribes to or reads on a frequent basis, but still exists in large part because of its constituency in New York and California that subscribes by the.

Andrew Bremberg (54:12)

Dozens.

Josh Holmes (54:16)

And allows them to do things like this. They have published a story of inside the Living rooms of notable New Yorkers. This next segment describes to you better than anything we can say about the modern democratic left. It is truly remarkable. Smaug, I'd like you to just sort of set the stage for what it is that we're dealing with here.

Smug (54:43)

So I started reading this. This is the most bananas thing the New Yorker is saying that, like, this is just notable. We're just gonna have some notable New Yorkers. Their description of a living room is just deranged.

Michael Duncan (54:58)

I'm just gonna read direct.

Smug (54:59)

What aspects of living are meant to be done in a living room? Exactly. Not eating, which takes place, at least theoretically, in the dining room or in the kitchen. Not sleeping, or having sex, which takes place in the bedroom. And unless you live in an old East Village tenement, I won't even mention bathing. What the living room is for ostensibly is gathering. It's the most public facing of a home spaces and as such it bears a particular burden. Kind of showcasing to others who the.

John Ashbrook (55:27)

Occupants are like, we're doing critical living room query.

Michael Duncan (55:31)

Quite poignant.

Smug (55:33)

They're like, how have we lost touch with regular marriage? Let's do a breakdown.

Michael Duncan (55:37)

Was this written by E.E. cummings?

Josh Holmes (55:41)

The Quilt you drape on your couch, the paintings you hang on your wall, the tchotchkes you select for your mantle, all are about as important to your adult self conception as the heavy eyeliner and chunky boots are to an emo teens. Which is to say very.

Smug (56:02)

Also, they're like the New Yorker's authors are like. You know when you're just like hanging the painting in your living room, I like to have a Rothko in mind. That's normal, right? Most Americans have Rothkos, don't they?

Josh Holmes (56:16)

If you're having a hard time conceptualizing what we're going for here, imagine how you live and what your house looks like and you know, your living room, which look the description, it's not far off. I mean there's a lot of us in the Midwest where the kitchen is an open space and you just sort of gather there in addition to a living room. But the point is this is supposed to define the house that you're in. In many ways that is correct. I'm not going to quibble for one moment with the New Yorker's characterization of that. But what they found from the new notable New Yorkers, you won't be surprised to find out the most liberal people on the face of the planet is remarkable, really remarkable. Why don't we start out with Reverend Al Sharpton. He was a very notable New Yorker in his Upper east side palace. Here we have the Reverend Al standing in a very. It's just the vest of a three piece suit standing there looking serious, solemn to me.

Smug (57:22)

The most telling thing about. For our audio listeners, I'm going to describe it. You can already know this is probably what his living room looks like. It's Al Sharpton standing in a room with one photo. It's a photo of Al Sharpton.

Josh Holmes (57:38)

A painting of Al Sharpton on Al Sharpton's wall.

John Ashbrook (57:43)

Okay, so what I love about this is there's another view you could go for, maybe a window in the background. Maybe you could see some skyline or something. And you just have to imagine the stage direction from Al. From Rev Al. He's like, no, no, no, no, I need the picture of Myself behind me. Well, here's. There's, like, what? There's like a doggy fence there.

Michael Duncan (58:04)

Well, that's what caught my attention because it's a 4x4 dog playpen with crystal water dishes and food dishes and a basket full of toys and a plush bed.

Josh Holmes (58:16)

No dog, though.

Michael Duncan (58:17)

No dog?

John Ashbrook (58:18)

No dog didn't make the cut.

Josh Holmes (58:20)

That would complicate the depiction.

John Ashbrook (58:24)

Yeah, the austere aesthetic.

Josh Holmes (58:26)

Well, he has to keep that pretty beast anonymous because you wouldn't want to unfairly make them in Target, but that's what Al Sharpton is. How about Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, AOC as we've come to know her? She's. East Elmhurst, New York. What do we have here, fellas?

Michael Duncan (58:45)

She's knitting a scarf.

John Ashbrook (58:47)

I mean, come on, really?

Michael Duncan (58:49)

Winter is coming, old man. She is preparing as she normally does, with her tube socks and French bulldog at her side. This is Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. Just thinking about how she might one day run for President of the United States.

Josh Holmes (59:10)

Dude. The amount of preparation, for those of you who've never been a part of PR or any sort of photo shoot or anything like that, the amount of preparation that goes into a photo like this, it's heavy makeup. It's trying to depict you in a way that you just absolutely need to be depicted. And someone like the New Yorker goes over the top where they make full magazine photo spreads of it. What she has done is decided to lay on a couch and knit.

John Ashbrook (59:40)

Yeah, right.

Josh Holmes (59:41)

As if she's just sort of like an old grandmother.

John Ashbrook (59:43)

Right. It makes no sense. I mean, this is the most social media hungry, clout chasing member of the Democratic Party, and you want me to believe that she walks into her apartment in the. In East Elmhurst and she takes off her shoes and then she gets out her knitting gear? I just don't believe it. No, I don't believe it. She, like, goes live on Instagram every night. Yeah. Like, are you kidding me?

Michael Duncan (60:07)

But it looks like a candid shot, old man. Are you sure this isn't real?

Josh Holmes (60:12)

The only. The only person that I have come across who included someone who would be considered family in any sort of definitional way. Alex Soros.

John Ashbrook (60:24)

Yes. This is my favorite. You have to subscribe to the YouTube. You have to see this, because it's absolutely beautiful. Okay, so let me just set the scene here. Alex Soros, the son of George Soros, who's now in charge of his Democratic investment empire, is lounging with his legs crossed, with his hand raised, holding the hand of Uma Abedin who all very straight faced.

Josh Holmes (60:51)

Yeah, yeah. It's all like an almost a Mona Lisa.

John Ashbrook (60:54)

Like it's very strange for a man to be sitting that way while ostensibly in some sort of physical relationship with this woman who he has on display. It is not a masculine pose.

Smug (61:05)

We should, we should draw the green lines because she's like facing away from him while you know, also his legs are crossed and folks will recognize this his like you know, penthouse condo from. It's essentially just like a trophy case of elected Democrats where they all have to come kiss the ring and stand in front of his skyline.

Josh Holmes (61:26)

I mean that's what's happened. He collects them like baseball cards. As we've said, any single Democrat who has been of any sort of consequence over the years, he summons them, has, he's been, they've been summoned, he rings the bell.

John Ashbrook (61:38)

Well this is the other thing I love about that room in particular we put that graphic back up please. Is you've got Alex Soros. This is a man who has spent so weird millions, so weird millions upon millions of dollars to elect every far left DA in the country to defund the police. And he lives in a glass citadel hundreds of feet above the city he's ruining. It's like, it's like this photo is like the photo of a fucking Bond villain.

Josh Holmes (62:06)

Yep, it's so good. But also what if you look past all of these? Not a smirk, not so much as a, just an element of joy. I mean these are the notable limbs that you ever are ascribing to. Not a single one of them looks like they're having any fun whatsoever. I do love the Huma Abedin component to this by the way, which is, you know like the ostensible like articulated reason for Alex Soros is to try to usher in this progressive left governing of everything from local crime enforcement all the way up to the federal government, the President of the United States and then he's holding hands sort of auspiciously with the woman who's maybe most responsible for not electing Hillary Clinton.

John Ashbrook (62:54)

Yeah, right.

Smug (62:55)

Like for some of our younger listeners and viewers, they might not know the Laura on Huma Abedin who was, she was essentially Hillary Clinton's right hand woman. You know, worked for Hillary and when her husband Carlos Danger also what was his.

John Ashbrook (63:10)

Anthony Weiner.

Smug (63:10)

Anthony Weiner, former congressman from New York, former, you know, incarcerated individual for child sex crimes, unspeakable crimes. Huma was married to Anthony Weiner.

Michael Duncan (63:21)

Yes.

Smug (63:22)

While Huma worked for Hillary Clinton and while they were investigating Anthony Weiner. They found out that he was using Puma's laptop.

John Ashbrook (63:32)

And so some of the Hillary Clinton emails that there was, the whole Investigation over in 2016 appeared on this laptop that had been accessed by Anthony Weiner. This is no joke. One of the reasons why Hillary Clinton did not become President of the United States is because of UMA and because of Carlos Danger.

Smug (63:50)

It's incredible.

Josh Holmes (63:51)

I mean, just go back through the history of when the FBI reopened the discussion in the waning weeks of the 2016 election. The reason they did so is because they had an investigation into Anthony Weiner and exposing his parts. And when they had that investigation, they found, lo and behold, a whole bunch of emails that had to do with. With Hillary Clinton, that she vanished, that we're not any longer vanished.

Michael Duncan (64:14)

I just look at that picture and wonder what Alex Soros is searching for on Huma Abedin's computer.

Smug (64:22)

So I want to read. Keep that image up there. This is from friend of the program Jarvis best on X. JarvisBest wrote, Loved this picture of me, a heterosexual, and my wife, who I love being physically intimate with.

Josh Holmes (64:39)

It's just. It is so unrelatable.

Michael Duncan (64:42)

It's hilarious.

Josh Holmes (64:43)

That's what the case is with all of these things.

John Ashbrook (64:46)

They're just a notable New Yorker.

Josh Holmes (64:47)

It's the most inauthentic, unrelatable bunch of. That you've ever seen in your entire life.

Michael Duncan (64:52)

Speaking of unrelatable, my friend, I think we should go to graphic five.

Josh Holmes (64:56)

Let's go to graphic five. Who, like, who's the. The resident expert on Ella Emhoff. We. We know her by relation to the former Democratic nominee's husband's daughter.

John Ashbrook (65:09)

Yeah. Stepdaughter of Kamala Harris.

Josh Holmes (65:11)

Yeah. And this is super relatable, unquestionably. Who wants to take this one?

Michael Duncan (65:16)

Well, it says she's a textile artist in the Lower east side. And there is all this thread over. You can see sort of on the left side of her apartment shelves. It makes you think, lead you to believe that she's headed straight to the loom, where she is gonna weave together some fabrics and carry out her occupation as a textile artist.

John Ashbrook (65:39)

Unless she's running the most successful shop in the history of Etsy, there is no way a textile artist could afford a place in the Lower east side.

Michael Duncan (65:48)

To me, dude, like, her saying she's a textile artist, it reminds me of me and my brother joking that we were raking leaves and therefore we were conducting fall foliage mitigation.

Josh Holmes (66:04)

I mean, but just look at she. First of all, she's standing on her fucking couch. Yeah, Like, I don't know. I guess that's a pose.

John Ashbrook (66:11)

Just a very natural pose. You'd find me in any evening.

Smug (66:15)

I'll just.

Josh Holmes (66:16)

Let me just say it.

John Ashbrook (66:17)

Say it.

Josh Holmes (66:17)

If anyone that I grew up with had this situation going on in the famous. They'd be devastated. They'd be devastated. Like, this is. This is the kind. This is the kind of problem that you, you know, you get a week before Thanksgiving. They're not gonna make it. They're not gonna show up, and they hate their family. They're like completely tossing you all under the bus. And they've got a bunch of left wing reasons to do so. Like, just look at the problem that is Ella Imhoff here, Me standing on the couch. She's got a crop top on. I don't know what you call. Those are like 19. Those are the shorts that I used to wear as a kid. 1995, probably.

John Ashbrook (67:00)

Board shorts, right?

Josh Holmes (67:01)

Like a board short. And she's holding a dog.

John Ashbrook (67:02)

Are those Jenkos? Yeah, Jenkos.

Smug (67:05)

Bring them back.

Josh Holmes (67:05)

A stack of books, the likes of which I fear for the dog's health, in all honesty, because if any one of those topples over, you got like 40 pounds of books coming down on you that would take out that little mutt. No question about it. And then there's a bunch of stuff here. I still come back to what you highlighted at the top. A textile artist. That's what I mean. Is she printing T shirts? What is she doing? What's a textile artist?

Michael Duncan (67:30)

That's what I can't get over is the con job that they expect us to believe that they caught her in between weaving sessions. You know, like, she is just sitting in a sewing machine 23 hours a day. And then this was the one hour when they caught her candid spending time with her pup.

Josh Holmes (67:46)

Extremely notable.

Michael Duncan (67:48)

It's just insane. She's a wealthy socialite who lives a life that nobody else in this country lives. And she's larping as some kind of a worker.

Smug (67:57)

She's at her loom when the New Yorker knocks.

John Ashbrook (67:59)

Oh, hello.

Smug (68:00)

I didn't see you there.

John Ashbrook (68:01)

Right.

Smug (68:03)

I was textile artisting.

Michael Duncan (68:04)

Just changing out the needles in my.

Josh Holmes (68:07)

Sewing machine, busily making garments for working classic.

Michael Duncan (68:12)

Making garments.

Josh Holmes (68:16)

Who's the last one here? Anna Sorokin.

John Ashbrook (68:18)

Oh, Anna Delvey. This is Anna Delvey.

Josh Holmes (68:20)

Okay, who is this?

John Ashbrook (68:21)

So this is the Manhattan socialite con woman who, like, conned all of these rich people out of a bunch of money for this, like, art gallery project. She was going to be doing or something. It was like this whole scam thing. You'll see here in the photo on her right ankle is actually her monitoring deposits. No, my God, no. Which I just love that they included her.

Josh Holmes (68:41)

That's off to the eyes on that. That's good.

John Ashbrook (68:44)

And she's wearing some sort of like. What is this? It's like a fur.

Josh Holmes (68:49)

Yeah. Coat sort of thing.

John Ashbrook (68:51)

Shaw.

Josh Holmes (68:51)

Some sort of shaw off the shoulder.

John Ashbrook (68:53)

Yeah. I guess what I love most about this is she did a great service to America by conning a bunch of left wing dupes out of their money. And in fact, I would suggest perhaps that she might be the least felonious person they portrayed.

Smug (69:09)

Amazing, Amazing.

Josh Holmes (69:13)

The best part of it. So you've got like, look, I'm not an interior decorator, but you know, the shot is I guess ostensibly out the window. Cause it has a viewpoint of New York City over the river and that, you know, I guess that's cool. There is a very ill shapen sofa in front of it that's sort of like cast off to, you know, one side of the wall in large part because you get one of those apartments that are the leftover apartments, they can't square off that they do like a 1, 1/4, 2/4 turn. And then she's got one foot on that. Not a single picture on the wall. And then it looks like in the bottom part of the photograph there's just some debris.

Smug (69:58)

Assorted debris.

Josh Holmes (69:59)

Assorted debris. You know what I mean? Like if you're gonna do like a New Yorker thing and you're going to be a part of like the Alex Sorkin sort of like billionaire class of puppeteers that are the modern, most influential New Yorkers. I'm not sure this is it. Like this feels like you're gonna. If she, if she is a con artist is this feels like a pretty bad start. Like you got a lot of talking to do to get through this.

John Ashbrook (70:28)

Well, this is part of her Rebit Real rehabilitation tour, I think.

Josh Holmes (70:32)

Oh, she's like, well, I'm not that.

John Ashbrook (70:33)

Well, she's on the other side of it. Right. Like the con had been revealed.

Josh Holmes (70:37)

Oh, it already been. And honestly, the ankle bracelet, you know.

John Ashbrook (70:41)

I would rather billionaires give their money to her than to Alex Soros, that's for sure.

Josh Holmes (70:47)

So this isn't just to make fun of the New Yorker or who they see as, you know, significant New Yorker, like power players of the next generation so much as it is to sort of codify what we've been talking about here for the last Year and a half on the ruthless variety program, which is the modern Democratic Party. Is that. Yep, that's what it is. And you can get the, you know, every once in a while, discussion about the working class. And they'll talk a lot about, like, oh, the Republican Party is for billionaires voting public, notwithstanding policy, notwithstanding all that. Like, this is what they talk, but this is who they are, and that's who they answer to. And so, like, the reason we highlight all of this is. Can you relate?

Smug (71:34)

Yeah.

Andrew Bremberg (71:35)

Can you.

Josh Holmes (71:35)

Do you think any one of these people, like, take a look at Ella Imhoff. Does she look like somebody who you're gonna hang out with on Friday night after a tough week of work?

Smug (71:45)

They're like, if she puts a camo hat on, she could probably get elected. Yeah, I think that is.

Andrew Bremberg (71:54)

All right.

Josh Holmes (71:54)

So the third clip there's a South Carolina Democrat. This is courtesy of the Charleston Police Department. Can we see this video? Who is your biological father? Would you please share that with the world? Hey, Nancy White. Now, because I only promised that I would not do this once I started this campaign. Cause I can't do this once I start a campaign. You better tell the world right now that what you did in the world of Congress.

Michael Duncan (72:29)

Oh, boy.

Josh Holmes (72:29)

Was the greatest sin ever committed in the history of this nation.

Michael Duncan (72:37)

You know, we started this segment about Jungle Juice, and there was like a firm lamentation that people are not drinking Jungle Juice anymore. And I think the reason why is because he's drinking all of it.

Josh Holmes (72:49)

Well, this is the low country attorney, Mullins McLeod.

Smug (72:54)

That is such a South Carolina name. That's the most South Carolina name of all time.

Josh Holmes (72:59)

Mullins McLeod is a prominent attorney down there in the low Country. He's announced his candidacy for the Democratic primary for governor of on Monday. It doesn't feel like it's going that well.

Smug (73:11)

Dude, here's what I would do. I would run that as an ad if I were him. This is South Carolina.

Josh Holmes (73:15)

He's like, man, I get it. South Carolina.

Smug (73:18)

Like, people think Florida's crazy. Dude, South Carolina is so bonkers. It's so crazy. It's out of control.

Josh Holmes (73:24)

I love Charleston.

Smug (73:25)

If I'm him, I run that. I run that.

Josh Holmes (73:28)

I mean, he uses a racial slur, profanity, goes on an hour long rant. We just sort of showed you a little clip of it. Charleston police responded to a battery.

Smug (73:39)

To the battery?

Josh Holmes (73:39)

Yeah, to the battery. On May 2nd for a report of a man in his underwear yelling and causing a disturbance. Officers found this man, Mullins McLeod.

Michael Duncan (73:51)

McLeod.

John Ashbrook (73:52)

I'm really disappointed in McLeod. Just speaking as someone from the Scottish American community, a Duncan generally, we can handle our alcohol.

Josh Holmes (74:01)

He's let you down.

John Ashbrook (74:02)

Yeah, it's very disappointing.

Josh Holmes (74:04)

It's disappointing.

Smug (74:05)

I mean, that's scotch drunk that guy is on.

Michael Duncan (74:07)

Well, we don't know.

Josh Holmes (74:09)

That's not scotch.

Michael Duncan (74:10)

We don't know. Maybe this is pure unvarnished liberal Democrat in the south that's possible too. We don't know.

Smug (74:18)

Back the Blue Dog Dems.

Josh Holmes (74:19)

Well, there's a racial slur.

Smug (74:20)

Not a bad way.

Josh Holmes (74:21)

So you might be right about that.

Smug (74:22)

Dude, I support that campaign launch. Brilliant.

Josh Holmes (74:24)

Okay. Well done, Mullins, McLeod. I just love it. Great stuff. It's been a hell of a year with all of these things. It's been a, you know, 2026. Here we go. I can't imagine we're going to do anything less than what we did in 2025 in terms of the variety. There's a lot of crazy out there to mine from animals and whatnot.

John Ashbrook (74:48)

It's a renewable resource.

Andrew Bremberg (74:49)

It is.

Michael Duncan (74:51)

It sure is.

Josh Holmes (74:52)

Unquestionably like. And subscribe to the Ruthless Variety program. When you do, we read all of your comments and we get back to the very next episode. And thank you for joining us throughout this entire year. It's been a hell of a year for all of us and we've really enjoyed you being along the ride with us with that fellas. I think we did it.

Smug (75:12)

I think so. Absolute banger of an episode. Gentlemen, thank you so much, Andrew Grunberg. And thank you to the listener. Remember, if you have not yet, go to the YouTube hit that subscribe because it's more fun and video. So until next time, minions, keep the faith, hold the line and own the libs. We'll see you next time. Stay ruthless.