Smug (2:35)

Keep the fate, hold the line and own the lids.

John Ashbrook (2:38)

It's time for our main event.

Josh Holmes (2:44)

Fun Time Friday. Welcome back to the ruthless Friday program. I'm Josh Holmes along with comfortably smug Michael Duncan and John Ashbrook. Left to right across your radio dial. As always, it's gonna be a fun time Friday. Cause I gotta tell you, there's a lot of really dumb stuff that happened this week. No More dumb situation than an argument presented before the United States Supreme Court where one side was actually legit arguing against the laws of nature. Yeah, it's like arguing against gravity at some level. And of course, I'm referring to that Supreme Court case where there are men and women's sports, West Virginia, you heard on Tuesday from the Attorney General of West Virginia who brought that case all the way to the Supreme Court, which, judging from the arguments, I like his chances.

Michael Duncan (3:33)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (3:36)

I like his chances. I mean, the attorneys in this case were reduced at some level to just arguing what the definition of a man and a woman is. At one point, Justice Alito interjected and was like, okay, so you can't give me the definition, but how am I supposed to determine discrimination if they're the same? And he basically, I'm paraphrasing, but he basically extrapolated out. There are a lot of laws on discrimination that we preside over. And if we're looking at all of those, but you can't tell me a definition other than what you just sort of identify as no biological components whatsoever. Are any of those.

Michael Duncan (4:15)

Yeah, it turns out when you make a law and you have to work under a legal framework, things have to have definitions which in order for laws.

Josh Holmes (4:21)

To apply to them, which like I was thinking about this in real time. I was on Brett on Tuesday on Special Report in real time, he's laying out these arguments which I hadn't heard the Ketanji Brown Jackson we'll get into.

Bruce Pearl (4:32)

Yes.

Josh Holmes (4:33)

But I hadn't heard her side of the argument. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh my God, I bet every single person on the left when they start hearing the argument to try to uphold men playing women's sports is like, holy shit, if they lose this, you probably lose every single. Affirmative action is gone. But you probably lose all discrimination cases, federal, state and whatever. Because their argument in and of itself is there's no difference.

Michael Duncan (5:01)

Yeah, everybody's the same, but it's like.

Josh Holmes (5:03)

They have no idea. They just self immolated on the whole thing and they didn't even know. Like nobody just sort of ran that by the old ACLU on the way in.

John Ashbrook (5:11)

They seem like the first questions that you would prepare for if you were going to go up against Judge Alito. I mean, and they were just basic fact based questions. And the guy is a legend. I hope to God that he does not retire this year because he is so good and we're just starting to see how good he is.

Smug (5:29)

I mean, I really, you Know, when you talk about that moment in particular, it just really crystallized in my mind how much of the left, their foundation is just like vibes. And they haven't thought out the consequences of anything they do, of any of their beliefs, of any definitions of what they believe, why they believe any of it. They're essentially just an angry mob mobilized on make believe.

Michael Duncan (5:57)

But the most gratifying they are, the most gratifying thing, like coming out of that question from Sam Alito to me at least, is, all right, so we're not crazy. Like, we've had this whole debate in America and this is proof that America really is the greatest country on planet Earth, is that this is the argument we've been making to the left for years now. That whole movie that Matt Walsh did, what is a woman? Right, Right. That you can get to the highest echelon, the highest court in all the land. And that's still just the basic question.

Josh Holmes (6:32)

It's the basic question.

Michael Duncan (6:32)

It's the one we've been asking for years. And the left can't answer it.

John Ashbrook (6:36)

But I think that the left is in this land of make believe because they're a victim of their own success. They're like, oh, we can rob taxpayers blind and get away with it. Oh, we can hire an absolute moron to be our nominee for president and we can get away with it. We can say all of these lies and that, you know what, maybe we should try to trick people into believing the sky is not blue. I bet we can get away with that one, too.

Smug (6:58)

You're not wrong.

John Ashbrook (6:59)

But you start asking the basic questions and they ask absolutely crumble. And like, I, if not for Alito, I mean, maybe somebody else would have asked those questions, but I, if not for Alito, I don't know that they would have been exposed in the same way.

Josh Holmes (7:11)

Yeah, we're going to get into this here in a second. I want to give you a heads up that at the back end of Funtime Friday, one of the most fun interviews that we've done in a super long time, coach Bruce Pearl is with us, one of the all time winningest college basketball coaches, a hero for a lot of us. Not just because he's a great basketball coach, which he is, and we grew up watching him win all kinds of different things because he's one of the few people in sports who at the top of his game, not after it, but at the top of his game, was willing to speak his mind, willing to say, yep, I'm a conservative, I'm a Republican. Here are the things that I believe. Come get me.

Smug (7:51)

Yep.

Josh Holmes (7:51)

And that inspires younger generations in a way that, you know, we try to do our little part here on the Ruthless variety program and there's a lot of people doing good work on this. But when you see somebody credentialed like that who's willing to put his own skin in the game, you know, I mean, they're named.

Smug (8:09)

Especially working out of college, you're in the belly of games.

Josh Holmes (8:12)

Yeah. I mean, this is a guy you name Arenas after and he's like, fuck all that. I'm gonna tell you exactly what it is that I believe. Come at me. And he's done it. But he's done it. He's a thoughtful guy. Can't wait for you guys to hear this interview. It is 10 of 10, 10 of 10. Ruthless interview. So let's get back to the court for a second because this Kentanji Brown Jackson lady.

John Ashbrook (8:37)

Wow.

Josh Holmes (8:38)

The Supreme Court justice, which is unbelievable that this woman sits on the Supreme Court. I've seen her do, like theatrical play. She was on Broadway at one point. Yeah. Which is, I think, a better place for this kind of production than the Supreme Court. Here's what she has to say in clip one. Can you provide a definition for the word woman? Can I provide a definition?

Bruce Pearl (9:02)

No.

Josh Holmes (9:03)

Yeah. I can't. You can't? Not in this context. I'm not a biologist.

Smug (9:11)

The meaning of the word woman is.

Bruce Pearl (9:13)

So unclear and controversial that you can't.

Josh Holmes (9:16)

Give me a definition. Okay. So that's her Supreme Court confirmation hearing which came into play because she couldn't give the definition. Nor can she still give the definition. But she also doesn't understand a lot. She has a lot that she doesn't understand. Check a look at this clip 2 compilation from June 2025.

Smug (9:44)

This is in just one year for our audio only listeners.

Josh Holmes (9:48)

So I don't understand. Can I just understand? And I don't understand. And so what I. I don't understand. I don't understand. I don't understand your argument. I'm just trying to understand your answer. I don't understand. I guess I don't understand. I guess I don't understand. I don't understand. And I'm just trying to understand.

Smug (10:05)

Each of these is a unique instance of her saying this.

Josh Holmes (10:10)

This is the way that she's approaching issues where she's the ultimate authority.

Smug (10:14)

And so this is. I got that video sent to me last year by a source who wishes to remain anonymous and someone who's very familiar with the workings of the Supreme Court. And they were appalled when they found that out. And they're like, I thought you might find this interesting. This is someone who's on the Supreme Court that was in just one year, one term on the Supreme Court where she's. That's her, like, fallback of not knowing anything.

Michael Duncan (10:43)

You'd think it would be a prerequisite for being on the highest court in the land was, you know, understanding things.

Smug (10:48)

You'd think so.

Josh Holmes (10:49)

Well, you are the ultimate authority. You know, like, whether we have Hulk Hogan or his likeness wrestling women is up to this people. Like this woman.

Michael Duncan (11:02)

It's six votes. Yay. Two votes nay, one vote. I don't understand.

Smug (11:09)

But I mean that you literally have one job, which is to understand and rule on it.

Michael Duncan (11:13)

It is to understand.

Smug (11:15)

What is it you do around here?

Josh Holmes (11:17)

Well, so this became a big source of this particular case because, again, she doesn't understand.

Smug (11:24)

Doesn't understand.

Josh Holmes (11:26)

So let's throw up this graphic. And again, there's no video in the Supreme Court. I wish there was, because that would be fire. But graphic one, please. This is her commentary that reads. I guess I'm still struggling to understand why the state would have to have perfectly tailored laws. I would think the state would just have to make exceptions where people can demonstrate that the justification that makes the state's conduct constitutional doesn't apply to them. Gobbledygook, gobbledygook, gobbledygook, gobbledygook. But she doesn't understand. So in response, the attorney says, so making exceptions is tailoring your law. That's literally what that means, to tailor your law. Like, she's getting dunked on by attorneys before. Like, I've had the pleasure of getting to know a number of litigators before the Supreme Court. These are special people. If you've got the balls and the ego and the qualifications to stand before some of the smartest people on the planet and make an argument like, these are special people. Their number one rule is you're deferential to a fault.

Michael Duncan (12:42)

Well, yeah, because you want their vote.

John Ashbrook (12:44)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (12:45)

But I mean, even. Even when you know you're right and you think you're right, you are just deaf. Right. All pretense is thrown out the window at this point. The lawyers are throwing alley oops to each other to dunk on Ketanji Brown Jackson.

Smug (13:00)

And it's just incredible having someone on the Supreme Court who doesn't understand the most basic of things. She's like, well, why do there have to be rules? Can't you just tailor things to, why does the state have to have rules? Can't the Constitution just like, holy shit, how the hell does this happen? Joe Biden is clearly. I mean, he was essentially just like Weekend at Bernie's. It was all the left wing activists that were around him making his picks. This is a prime example of what you get.

Josh Holmes (13:28)

I mean, it's incredible. But she's not done there. You know, they can't just call man and a woman a man and a woman. We've gone through like at least a decade now of this whole. I remember when this first popped up in a political context where they started calling people cisgender, which I was like, what the hell is that? Cisgender. It's offensive to me. I'll be honest with you.

Smug (13:49)

It should be.

Josh Holmes (13:49)

It's offensive to me. Like, I don't know what that is. Cisgender. You can't just change men and women to something like, what's cis? What the hell is that?

John Ashbrook (13:58)

They made it up.

Smug (13:59)

Exactly.

Josh Holmes (13:59)

They made it up. They're inventing a new language. Well, anyway, she wants to strictly adhere to some of that. Clip three, you have the overarching classification. You know, everybody has to be play on the team that is the same as their team sex at birth. But then you have a gender identity definition that is operating within that, meaning a distinction, meaning that for cisgender girls, their gender identity for transgender girls, they can't.

John Ashbrook (14:38)

So I think that, okay, you're.

Michael Duncan (14:41)

As to the part about your ability.

Josh Holmes (14:43)

To pass over from boy to girl.

John Ashbrook (14:44)

Yes, you can go from one way, but not the other. I want to be clear that BPJ.

Michael Duncan (14:48)

Is not challenging that specific classification.

John Ashbrook (14:50)

I think that's important to start with. But I think if anything, that's useful evidence as to the lack of a transgender based discrimination.

Michael Duncan (14:58)

Because if the legislature were just sort of unsettled by the notion of transgender.

John Ashbrook (15:02)

Athletes, I think the answer would have been to then bar them from consistent with their job.

Smug (15:07)

I appreciate that.

Josh Holmes (15:08)

I guess I was getting at the. What I understood the Chief justice to be trying to discuss, which was this notion that this is really just about the definition of who we accept, that you can accept separate boys and girls. And we are now looking at the definition of a girl and we're saying only people who were girl assigned at birth qualify.

John Ashbrook (15:34)

Okay, let's just set aside her string of unlistenable prepositional phrases and just. I want to flag that. That was Michael Williams. He's the Solicitor General for the state of West Virginia. We had their Ag on earlier this week and he was talking about how good that guy was and we just heard it. He put her in a body.

Josh Holmes (15:53)

Yeah, you got it. You had an early preview of what that guy was about to do to the Supreme Court. He did it. I will say the Irish were up in arms at the CIS ginger.

Smug (16:03)

The CIS gingers.

Josh Holmes (16:03)

The cis. The CIS gingers. I mean they're pissed. I mean how you know when you have like a couple of dozen kids gender. I don't know.

Michael Duncan (16:12)

The gingers have struggled enough. They shouldn't be pulled into the middle of this.

Josh Holmes (16:16)

It's CIS gingers.

Bruce Pearl (16:17)

Yeah.

Michael Duncan (16:17)

It's hard enough being red haired in a kid.

Smug (16:19)

I mean just like what are we doing here that you have a Supreme Court justice being like, so girl assigned at birth is. Dude, why do you like this is one of the things of the absurdity of the left is they have their like enforcement mob which forces all of them to jump through these stupid little hoops where it's like the emperor has no clothes. We all know this is made up gobbledygook. We're talking about people who have a mental health problem and you're having to call them a girl and jump through all these hoops and be like girl assigned at birth. It's like we all know the facts here. It's just that half of these people in this country for some reason are scared to come out and say the obvious, which is that boys are boys, girls are girls.

Bruce Pearl (17:06)

Right.

Smug (17:07)

That's just how it's always been for a million years.

Michael Duncan (17:10)

I mean, I don't know, I'm kind of grateful for Ketanji Brown Jackson because she actually exposes. Right.

Josh Holmes (17:17)

Well, I mean, unintentionally, the idiots.

Michael Duncan (17:19)

There's just, there's so much in the left's, you know, struggle Olympics of like who qualifies for the DEI stuff. And there's so much unintended consequences that we never see in society under that regime. Right. Like who didn't get the job, who didn't get into college or whatever. And those stories are hard to tell, but when the chickens come home to roost and you apply it to something like the highest court in the land, now we all get to laugh and mock it and wouldn't you rather have an incompetent idiot on the Supreme Court arguing the liberal position than somebody who was competent?

Josh Holmes (17:50)

Yeah, no, no, totally. Much better this way because it, I mean again, you've got West Virginia Solicitor 2 Hand dunking on a Supreme Court justice like something that was incomprehensible but I do think it reduces. Look, what the modern left is up to today is a basic violation of a social contract that we all entered into as Americans at an early age. There are certain truths that we just accept. There are stop signs. You stop at them, right? There's sports where there's boys sports and there's sports where there's girls sports. You play what you are, right? The sky is blue, gravity exists, water is wet. You know what I mean? Like basic social contracts. And then you take it a half step further and you're like, well, we wrote a law and it says that if you're here illegally, that you can't be here. But that's also like all of these things. Everything that they're talking about is a violation of a social contract. It's not just the law.

Smug (19:01)

It was, I think it was a quote from, was it Gulag Archipelago where it was that if they can make you believe absurdities, they can make you commit atrocities.

Josh Holmes (19:08)

Yes.

Smug (19:08)

And that's foundational to today's left.

John Ashbrook (19:10)

Alexander Solzhenitsyn.

Josh Holmes (19:13)

Listen to you.

John Ashbrook (19:14)

He's saying Gulag Archipelago. The only thing I was thinking, listening to Ketanji Brown Jackson's bullshit was a 64 volleyball player spiking a ball into some 4 9, 80 pound girl. And them being like, no, no, they should be able to do that. Yeah, it's unreal, you know, like under no circumstances does anybody believe that, you know, and yet they, you know, they still push and push and push.

Josh Holmes (19:38)

Well, have no fear, the right is doing a little fun. You're gonna see a clip here shortly that is going to, I think, lift your spirits a touch from what the left is trying to do. A lightning round of all kinds of variety coming right up after this.

John Ashbrook (19:58)

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Bruce Pearl (20:31)

What America builds today will help secure.

John Ashbrook (20:34)

A more affordable, more reliable future. With enough energy to go around for generations to come, our country can't wait. We must pass permitting reform now to help secure American energy dominance. Because when America builds, America wins. America's oil and natural gas, paid for by the American Petroleum Institute.

Josh Holmes (21:01)

Okay. So, I mean, look, you see all kinds of things on the news about protests, and the left is standing up to the mighty federal government. Good Lord. Yeah. Wouldn't want to do their job and enforcement the law. There's a couple things you didn't see. And this is like, you know, you get some innocent bystanders who happen to align with something other than anarchy, and it. I'm told it doesn't. I haven't seen this clip, but I'm told it doesn't go well. Clip 4. All right, it's guy with a flag. Guy putting a blowhorn in his ear. Yeah.

Smug (21:37)

For audio only listeners. This is a guy who's just holding the US Flag.

Josh Holmes (21:40)

All he's doing is holding a flag.

Smug (21:42)

And this is what they do. The left wants to just ruin your life if you don't do what they want.

Josh Holmes (21:48)

Putting it in his ear, following around, like, just pestering this guy, putting it up against his head.

Smug (21:54)

A bullhorn with a siren right against his head.

Josh Holmes (21:56)

And following him around because he's holding a flag. Knock the first guy out, knocks the second guy. Now the third guy, they keep on fourth guy.

Bruce Pearl (22:10)

No way.

Smug (22:11)

And then that stupid whistle that they have in Minnesota. God, I hate people.

Josh Holmes (22:14)

No way. Did he drop this guy, too.

Smug (22:17)

Well, here's the thing.

Josh Holmes (22:18)

Now five guys.

Smug (22:19)

Now a couple of them roll up on him.

Josh Holmes (22:23)

Six guy, he's dropped six.

Smug (22:25)

Watch this guy in the red thinks he's really got him.

Bruce Pearl (22:31)

No.

Josh Holmes (22:32)

7, 8.

Bruce Pearl (22:33)

Yeah, dude.

Josh Holmes (22:34)

Dude, the guy that just went full.

Smug (22:36)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (22:36)

I mean, that was almost like a wwe.

Smug (22:39)

I mean, he had his knees wobble after that hit, and he was gone. Watch this guy on the right again.

Michael Duncan (22:46)

He's out on his feet.

Smug (22:48)

Nap time.

Josh Holmes (22:49)

So you got a bunch of lefty anarchists that are saying, like, no, no, no, save our pedophiles. One guy holding a flag, they decide to accost him, and he's like, I've had just about enough of this.

Michael Duncan (23:01)

How many TikTok videos do you think all of those liberal activists put up after it? Being like, I was targeted and harassed by a MAGA extremist Nazi, you know? And then you see the video, and it's like, you kind of got what you deserve.

Josh Holmes (23:14)

Can I. Can I. Can I just ask you? Like, you know, we all grew up with our boys back home. If you saw one of your boys on a tape like this, they were just holding the flag, which is, by the way, not impossible, at least for my friends.

Smug (23:26)

Like that.

Josh Holmes (23:27)

That situation, that that guy is not impossible to find themselves in. And Then you find out that they knocked out eight straight libs that went at him. The last guy just full bag of bones to the turf. I mean, he would just be a legend.

Smug (23:41)

Yeah, and that's the thing.

John Ashbrook (23:42)

Grand Marshall of the fourth of July parade.

Smug (23:46)

I mean, the left just has to learn, like, Americans are sick of the bullying. That's why we got the election the way we did in 2024is people are sick and tired of a mob telling them how to behave. What you're allowed to do. And if you do not do exactly what they want, that, I mean, how annoying can you possibly get? You put a bullhorn with a siren next to someone's head and you expect zero. That's the thing is, for so long they've had zero pushback and they've had zero consequences. And boy, when the consequences arrive, it's great to see.

Michael Duncan (24:14)

Well, I understand it's a liberal mob, but they weren't exactly expressing a lot of solidarity there. I mean, they were coming one at one. It was like a Steven Seagal movie where all the bad guys line up in a line to get their ass kicked one at a time.

Smug (24:26)

Don't you know, you attack at.

Michael Duncan (24:29)

It's true. It's like the old ones work together. So true.

Josh Holmes (24:34)

Thank you for the gift of hearing loss because of the bullhorn. I will return the favor by providing you CTE eight of you consecutively in 15 days.

Smug (24:44)

And this is the best is the guy in the red, like, throws his gloves off and threw in a time.

Josh Holmes (24:48)

I'm going to go get him.

Smug (24:49)

It's time to do this.

Josh Holmes (24:50)

Yeah, done, dude. Good night. And that guy, too. Takes three uppercuts right to the mug.

Smug (25:00)

I love it. It was just so dramatic. The guy in red thought he was gonna do something, just gets dropped.

Josh Holmes (25:04)

I wanna know the name of that legend. If anybody knows, let us know here in the ruthless variety program. Clip five, I'm told that my governor of Minnesota had some interesting things to say.

Bruce Pearl (25:16)

Expect for the next 11 months for me to ride you like you've never been ridden.

John Ashbrook (25:21)

Oh, no. But.

Bruce Pearl (25:23)

Oh, no.

Josh Holmes (25:23)

Okay, so the context to this, I'm told, is that he's talking about.

Smug (25:26)

That's just what guys in Minnesota are looking for. That's what they vote for.

Josh Holmes (25:29)

Can I get one more replay on this just in case everybody didn't hear it?

Bruce Pearl (25:33)

Expect for the next 11 months for.

Josh Holmes (25:36)

Me to ride you like you've never been ridden.

Smug (25:38)

And guys in Minnesota to line up.

Josh Holmes (25:40)

To vote for that, that is. That is.

Smug (25:42)

They're like that's what I want.

Josh Holmes (25:43)

Well, I think it's a mistake. Right. Because it occurs to me that he is Walls has sort of a mistaken identity here. Again, this goes back to Kentanji Brown Jackson and everything we were talking about.

Smug (25:55)

He's one in Minnesota. Seems like that's what Minnesota's into.

Josh Holmes (25:58)

Well, I mean, he's seeing himself as a top when I think he's more of a bottom. It's certainly not a power bottom in the classical sense. Michael's taught me all of this. I think it was always Sonny.

Michael Duncan (26:10)

I've learned everything I know about the roles in the gay community from Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

Josh Holmes (26:16)

So a sub bottom would be probably the best classification.

Smug (26:21)

We should give a warning. Parents, this is not the episode to listen to at school. Pickup.

Josh Holmes (26:25)

You're gonna get it at school anyway. You might as well hear from us.

Michael Duncan (26:28)

Learned a lot. Learned a lot by watching a little bit of television. You know, he could be a versatile. That's also an option.

Josh Holmes (26:34)

Oh, a versatile. A subversable. Yeah, yeah, it could be. Well, he's certainly not a top. He was saying, you know, not a twink either, basically.

John Ashbrook (26:44)

Twink.

Josh Holmes (26:45)

Versatile. Might be a twink.

Michael Duncan (26:48)

He's more of an otter, I think.

Josh Holmes (26:50)

Oh, I don't even know what that.

Michael Duncan (26:52)

I know the culture.

Josh Holmes (26:52)

What's an otter?

Michael Duncan (26:54)

I don't know, man.

Josh Holmes (26:54)

Is it some version of a. I'm not going.

Michael Duncan (26:56)

I'm not getting into it.

Josh Holmes (26:57)

Bare but weaker.

Michael Duncan (26:58)

I'm not getting into it.

Smug (26:59)

This is not the family friend.

Michael Duncan (27:01)

Watch Always Sunny in Philadelphia. You'll know what I'm talking about.

Bruce Pearl (27:06)

All right.

Josh Holmes (27:07)

It all leads to our question of the day. If you've seen Ketanji Brown Jackson, you've seen Walls. Who's the d. Dumbest lib this week and why?

Smug (27:15)

Incredible question.

Josh Holmes (27:16)

There is a ton to choose from.

Smug (27:18)

That's a tough one.

Josh Holmes (27:19)

You have no idea how hard it is to put together Funtime Friday. I mean, we got so many things to choose from, and you kind of wear out with the crockets and the AOCs and, like, we don't want to give you the same stuff every week. They provide content on the reg for us. But, like, this is. You know, we now have the high court in play.

Smug (27:36)

Congratulations. The Supreme Court has now stepped up to provide the dumbest people in the world.

Josh Holmes (27:42)

So when you like and subscribe to the Ruthless Friday program, we read all of your comments. Get back to the very next episode. In this case, just tell us who you think is the, you know, the thing on that. Actually, you Know what? Why don't we just talk about what we're gonna do this weekend?

Michael Duncan (27:57)

Oh, yeah.

Josh Holmes (27:57)

And we're gonna obviously have NFL football and all that stuff. But in order to do that and be prepared for that, you're gonna need some Zebiotics.

Smug (28:06)

Friend of the program, Zbiotics.

Josh Holmes (28:08)

Yeah. And I can't tell you, dude, I know I say this every episode, but again, last week, somebody was like, I bought a case of this stuff, and it's absolute magic.

Smug (28:17)

Yep, that's it right there. That's Zbiotics. So what Zbiotics is for our new listeners is it's your alcohol pre drink. Before you have alcohol, before you head out to the game or you head out to a party, you have one of these. And it works like magic. Because so many people think the day after you drink, you have a good time, you feel awful because you're dehydrated, but you can chug all the Gatorade in the world, and it's not going to help you, because what happens is when you drink alcohol, your stomach breaks it down into this toxic byproduct, and that's what makes you feel miserable. Zbiotics knocks that right out.

John Ashbrook (28:48)

And Smug is not just saying this. He actually hands these out to people he meets along the way and then follows up the day after just to see how they respond. And to a person, they all say, that is magic.

Smug (29:01)

Because I want the credit. I want everyone to know.

Michael Duncan (29:04)

We need to get you a clipboard so you can collect testimonials for Zbiotics.

Josh Holmes (29:07)

No, I mean, for real. Just this week, I had a meeting where there's big Maha guy, and he was like, here, you should take this supplement. You should take that. And I'm like, okay, that's great. And he's like, but I gotta tell you, you've turned me onto something.

John Ashbrook (29:18)

Yep.

Josh Holmes (29:19)

And I'm like, oh, yeah? What's that? He goes, zebiotics. It's absolute magic. And I was like, you're right, it is absolute magic. And that's why you gotta go to zbiotics.com ruthless to learn more and get 15% off your first order. When you use Ruthless at the checkout, Zebiotics is back with 100% money back guarantee. So if you're unsatisfied for any reason at all, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. You go to Zebiotics and use Ruthless code at the checkout for 15% off. All right, so every once in a while, we like to dip into the five stars.

Bruce Pearl (29:52)

Yeah.

Michael Duncan (29:53)

It's been a while.

Josh Holmes (29:53)

Yeah, we get your comments frequently and we love every single thing. Don't stop for a second on that. But you gotta help. The audio only peeps out every once in a while. It's where we started, audio only. And they leave five stars. And so when they leave five stars, we like to get to it, you know, once every month, six weeks or something like that. But to do that, we always start with a voice.

John Ashbrook (30:17)

Okay, first comment is from BLT Lucille, and she writes the best. The Ruthless guys are my number one go to podcast. Not only informative, but always have a good laugh. Highly recommended. Wish they were on more than three times a week.

Josh Holmes (30:32)

Thank you. That is fantastic. Thank you. BLT Lucille dunks. What do we got?

Michael Duncan (30:39)

This is from Giddy's mom. Giddy's mom writes, my 10 year old son loves the program. I just want to go ahead and apologize.

Josh Holmes (30:47)

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.

Michael Duncan (30:48)

For our Always Sunny segment.

Josh Holmes (30:49)

Like I said, he's gonna learn it in second grade education in most public schools across our country. Might as well hear from the fellas.

Michael Duncan (30:56)

Continuing here. And asks me to listen every time we are in the car. Oh, nice. I listen to it before he does, so I can sometimes lower the volume quickly.

Smug (31:07)

Thank you for that.

Josh Holmes (31:08)

Like that's irresponsible.

Michael Duncan (31:09)

Parenthetical. Before I have to explain things I don't want to explain just yet.

John Ashbrook (31:14)

Perfectly timed.

Michael Duncan (31:15)

Hey, well, just. We'll explain anything to Giddy. You just let us know.

Josh Holmes (31:19)

Yeah, you let us know any topic.

Michael Duncan (31:21)

You need us to throw in there, we're happy to explain. Thanks for being so entertaining and allowing me to start teaching him about the crazy Dems. His nana is one one in the family.

Josh Holmes (31:33)

Yeah, well, that's okay. Again, we are more than happy. Getty, keep sending in the questions. We've got answers. Smug. What do we got?

Smug (31:41)

This is from wnl. They write, always informed, always informative, always a hoot. They say the fellows do more than drone out collective wisdom, of which they have much. They inform, yes, but they do it in a concise, cogent manner that runs the gamut from crisp entertainment to downright hilarity. Their guests are terrific and the interviewing style allows the guest to actually say something. The program is a go to for me. I wish they were on every day. So much.

Bruce Pearl (32:06)

Thank you.

John Ashbrook (32:07)

So kind.

Josh Holmes (32:08)

So kind. You have no idea how much comments like that keep us going. We just absolutely love it. Thank you so much. When we come back, we're gonna play a game on Funtime Friday.

John Ashbrook (32:18)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (32:20)

Demerjournal. One of the best. Just an absolute cornerstone of the variety program. Right after this.

John Ashbrook (32:29)

20 days, one historic move and an unbelievable journey. Melania from Amazon MGM Studios captures the one of a kind transition into the White House. Showcasing the planning, pressure and personal moments that come with stepping into the role of the first lady for a second time. From logistical complexities to decisions made behind closed doors, the film brings you closer to Mrs. Trump and her family as they return to the nation's capital. See what history looks like before the doors officially open. Melania arrives in theaters exclusively on January 30, 2026.

Josh Holmes (33:09)

Okay, welcome back to the Ruthless Friday program. You will recall just a brief time ago during the Obama era, there was a fair amount of deportations and of course, I set a very important role that stage because, of course, there was a Democratic president that was administering their role. We thought in order to introduce our game demarjourno, A little flashback might be nice just to refresh your memory and how they covered ICE during President Obama. Just before the sun rises in the Windy City, Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents fan out across Chicago to arrest criminals in the U.S. illegally. CNN was granted exclusive access to witness.

Bruce Pearl (33:52)

Some of those raids.

Josh Holmes (33:53)

You have evidence, right, that he's using a fake identity or.

Bruce Pearl (33:57)

That is correct.

Michael Duncan (33:58)

We believe he's been using a US Citizen's identity to live and work. Has an Illinois driver's license. He's going to be processed.

Josh Holmes (34:05)

They're going to fingerprint him. Not a pedophile.

Bruce Pearl (34:08)

And there's a whole process that goes.

Josh Holmes (34:10)

Into place before anybody who's including the old fake ID is a criminal.

Michael Duncan (34:16)

He has an extensive criminal history. I love the dramatic music.

Bruce Pearl (34:19)

It's making the community safer.

Michael Duncan (34:21)

And that's ICE's purpose, is to focus on criminals and community safety by taking these recidivist criminals out of our communities.

Josh Holmes (34:29)

What do you think about what ICE is doing to get criminal undocumented immigrants off the street?

Bruce Pearl (34:33)

That's good. They've already had their due process.

Smug (34:37)

Now, basically, it's so weird seeing this on cnn.

Bruce Pearl (34:40)

What's going to be happening to them? And then we arrange for the removal from the United States.

Smug (34:45)

Dude, there used to be a sane time. Like, this is 2016, the spring. It's before Trump has won. And you saw how, first off, she refers to illegal aliens correctly as criminals. And now you don't hear that?

Josh Holmes (35:01)

No.

John Ashbrook (35:02)

Right.

Smug (35:02)

They're like, oh, you're like, we believe.

Josh Holmes (35:04)

That this guy got into a bar and he's not 21. So we're kicked out his fucking door.

Michael Duncan (35:08)

And that's just fine. But, like, if Trump wants to arrest a pedophile, they're like, ready to run over a. Yeah, they're like, agent, this.

Josh Holmes (35:14)

Guy molested an 8 year old. And. And people are like, oh, my God, no.

John Ashbrook (35:18)

Why?

Josh Holmes (35:19)

Why is ICE here?

Michael Duncan (35:20)

This is just a Minnesota man.

Josh Holmes (35:21)

It's controversial Minnesota man.

John Ashbrook (35:23)

But, fellas, this CNN report was not unique. At the time, there were many other outlets who wrote something very similar. So I saw that and thought, you know what, maybe this is a good opportunity to play a throwback version of Dem or Journal.

Michael Duncan (35:37)

Can you refresh for the audience the rules? Because we don't play it that often.

John Ashbrook (35:40)

Yeah. This is a game that Michael Duncan came up with, and it's just absolutely brilliant because you read through a series of statements. Most, if not all of them are from journos, except one is from a Democrat. So in this case, there's four statements.

Smug (35:55)

Three are from journos, one is from a Dem operative, and you have to.

Josh Holmes (35:58)

Pick who the Dem is.

John Ashbrook (35:59)

Exactly. But in this case, so many journos wrote about this, I actually have five. So you got four journals, four journos, one Democrat.

Bruce Pearl (36:09)

Wow.

Josh Holmes (36:10)

Okay, just an additional.

John Ashbrook (36:13)

You guys ready to play?

Josh Holmes (36:14)

Yeah, let's go.

John Ashbrook (36:15)

They have to pick the Democrat. First statement, please, Lee, up on the screen. This is from 2015. The Department of Homeland Security has begun preparing for a series of raids that would target for deportation hundreds of families who have flocked to the United States.

Smug (36:33)

Wow.

John Ashbrook (36:34)

Is that a statement from the Obama administration or is that a journo writing about what they're doing? Okay. Okay. You ready for statement number two?

Josh Holmes (36:43)

Yep.

John Ashbrook (36:44)

Okay, this is from 2016.

Smug (36:46)

No, this is from 2015.

John Ashbrook (36:48)

Okay, Lee's. We got a different one up. Let me just. The federal government is planning a series of raids beginning in January to round up and deport hundreds of undocumented families, hoping to discourage a renewed surge in illegal border crossings.

Smug (37:06)

Interesting.

John Ashbrook (37:06)

Okay, is that a journo describing what Obama's doing?

Michael Duncan (37:10)

It's like a different country. It's like a different country. Like, oh. They want to discourage people from breaking the law and crossing the border illegally.

Josh Holmes (37:17)

Oh, my gosh. What is that? Man?

Smug (37:19)

This is crazy.

Michael Duncan (37:19)

Must be some sort of Nazi.

Josh Holmes (37:20)

Is this 1955?

John Ashbrook (37:22)

Okay, Lee, statement number three, please. This past weekend, Immigration and Customs Enforcement engaged in a concerted nationwide enforcement operations to take into custody and return at a greater rate adults who entered this country illegally with children. Okay. That's January of 2016. Okay. Okay, number four. Democrats in Congress, which is currently in recess, have been mostly quiet on the raids. Okay, That's January of 2016.

Josh Holmes (37:57)

Mostly quiet. It's an interesting little sub note, whether it's a journal or a demon.

John Ashbrook (38:02)

Right.

Josh Holmes (38:02)

Interesting.

John Ashbrook (38:03)

Very interesting. And the final number five. Obama has deported more people than any other president. And that's August of 2016.

Smug (38:12)

Oh, that's a tough one.

John Ashbrook (38:13)

Is that a Dem or is that a journo?

Josh Holmes (38:16)

Okay, the way we usually start this for those of you who are new to the game is we. We end up breaking it down. And because we've been involved in this line of work for a long time, we can provide you with some tell and some thoughts. We're not always right, but we usually try to deduce a little bit. And one of the things that the Obama administration did, it's now gone. Like, nobody does this in journalism or in politics anymore. But what the Obama administration used to do is sort of pick up a trend that all White Houses used to do, which is set the table on a Sunday with a Sunday story about what they were gonna talk about and do all week long. And there would be a series of stories about what they were trying to accomplish. It drove the message. It was actually pretty smart. They should probably start doing that again. It's gonna be different in terms of its application.

Michael Duncan (39:07)

Well, it's a little bit easier when you've got like SEAL clapping journalists all week who reinforce that message and talk about how smart and brave it is.

John Ashbrook (39:14)

Which is what makes this game so difficult, because they'd put out a message and every story would look an awful lot like the press release that was driving it.

Josh Holmes (39:21)

So. But from that standpoint, 1 and 2 read to me like those old school processors stories where they begun preparing. They're beginning a series of raids. It's like we have some information that only we could provide you because we're such good journalists. Except we're just doing stenography for the Obama administration.

Michael Duncan (39:44)

But three reads different to me it does because it reads more about the specific enforcement the Obama administration is trying to do. Notice that they wrapped in the illegally with children.

Smug (39:57)

This is number three currently on the screen for our YouTube.

Michael Duncan (40:00)

It sounds to me like the administration trying to frame up the type of enforcement they're focusing in on in order to hopefully head off criticism at the past.

John Ashbrook (40:12)

Can you just put up three one more time? You're talking about the type of enforcement the administration is focused on. And once again, we're talking about the Obama administration focusing on ICE enforcement return at a greater rate Adults who entered this country illegally.

Josh Holmes (40:27)

Yes.

Michael Duncan (40:28)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (40:28)

Which they are, by the way, the world record holder for deportation.

Michael Duncan (40:32)

But greater rate. Greater rate. And illegally. With children. I think with children. Seems more shaping.

Josh Holmes (40:40)

There is a shape. But you can't underestimate how negligent journalists are about their stenography, particularly as it is pertains to the Obama administration. So I flagged this right away, as you did, which I thought was, you know, maybe more consideration was needed. Number four to me, if we can pop that back up. That seemed to me like a pretty classic journo talk. Their job, their beat is Congress.

Bruce Pearl (41:08)

Yeah.

Michael Duncan (41:08)

Hill journalist, they're working the halls and.

Josh Holmes (41:11)

They'Re like, hey, these Dems are not talking about it. And like, I'm not sure if you're a Democrat that you are going to say, like they're not talking. You'd be like, oh, yeah, we're all in favor of it. Right. So I put that in the Journal category.

John Ashbrook (41:25)

Yeah, but it is sort of. If you could just put that up one more time, I'd like to.

Michael Duncan (41:29)

Are you playing the game or is he.

Josh Holmes (41:30)

No, but I want to point out he's trying to shape our opinion.

Michael Duncan (41:33)

Yeah.

John Ashbrook (41:33)

But I want to point out it is sort of interesting to see someone suggest that Democrats have been quiet on the Obama administration action.

Smug (41:43)

Right.

Michael Duncan (41:43)

Yeah, I know that is true.

John Ashbrook (41:44)

And that sort of like, why would you write that? They're quiet.

Josh Holmes (41:47)

They're quiet about it. They don't seem very quiet now, do they?

John Ashbrook (41:50)

Was that true at the time? They don't seem quiet now.

Josh Holmes (41:52)

They don't seem very quiet. And then if you get to number.

John Ashbrook (41:55)

Five.

Josh Holmes (41:58)

That to me, Obama has deported more people than any other president. It's a headline. The question before this panel is whether it is a press release headline or a fact check.

Smug (42:12)

Exactly. That's the thing, is it could be someone in the Obama administration under pressure of being like, hey, just wanting you to know Obama supported more people than any other president. Or it could be like a headline from a publication. And even there's the possibility in my mind of is that someone like Ryan Grim or one of these, like far lefties who are trying to.

Josh Holmes (42:37)

Oh, go the other way.

John Ashbrook (42:39)

Yeah.

Smug (42:39)

And be like, Obama's deported more than any other president.

Josh Holmes (42:41)

Yeah. I was just thinking about it in terms of like the politifact or something like that, you know, but. But so between. I don't know if you guys agree with this, but between me, it's three and five.

Michael Duncan (42:53)

Yeah. I'm picking three.

Smug (42:54)

I picked three.

John Ashbrook (42:55)

Wow.

Josh Holmes (42:55)

I'm gonna.

Bruce Pearl (42:56)

Just.

Josh Holmes (42:56)

Because you guys went with three, which I think I probably would say. I'll just go five, see what happens here.

John Ashbrook (43:02)

Okay, time for the reveal. Number one, please, the Washington Post and you guys correctly diagnosed that that's a lead to a story they're writing off of a press release from the Obama administration. Okay, number two, please. Lee, New York Times.

Bruce Pearl (43:17)

It's a show.

Josh Holmes (43:18)

It's the classic. Dude, I can't tell you how funny. Dear listener, you don't have no idea how much we lived in these. In this world where the Washington Post and the New York Times had the exact same story. They broke it as though it was the moonlight landing every Sunday. And it was about nothing consequential whatsoever other than they had something that was gonna be covered all week long. Yeah, that's the perfect example. Thank you for bringing that up.

John Ashbrook (43:44)

Number three, fellas, Whoever picked this one was correct.

Bruce Pearl (43:48)

Yes.

John Ashbrook (43:49)

This was Jeh Johnson.

Michael Duncan (43:50)

Yes.

John Ashbrook (43:50)

Okay. This was Obama's DHS secretary at the time talking about how he was encouraging ICE to fan out around the country and of collect up the illegal aliens.

Michael Duncan (44:01)

Yeah, Holmes, you picked five. I think your heart was on three. We were right. But you know, it reminds me, this whole setup you were talking about, it would be him. It would be Jeh Johnson out there on a Sunday show, and he'd lay out the administration, what our focus is this week. And then Monday, the Washington Post would dutifully give a nice stenographer session. And then Tuesday, New York Times would come out with the exact same formulation of the thing.

John Ashbrook (44:28)

Totally.

Michael Duncan (44:29)

I feel like we're just living through it right now.

Josh Holmes (44:30)

Just living through it. They owned the news cycle entirely, the information flow. They would roll it out on a Sunday, Washington Post, New York Times. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, they do what they're supposed to do. And members of Congress were dutifully silent if they disagreed with it. Thursday, Friday, Saturday, you'd have administration people back out and then put Jeh Johnson out on a Sunday to say, this past week, we protected the children. End of cycle, moving on. Approval ratings, going to the moon.

Michael Duncan (44:55)

And no one was called a Nazi. It's crazy.

Josh Holmes (44:57)

It's weird.

John Ashbrook (44:58)

Weird. Quite to the contrary. Number four, please, is from Politico.

Michael Duncan (45:04)

He said hill reporter.

Bruce Pearl (45:06)

We knew.

Michael Duncan (45:06)

Dude. Nailing it.

John Ashbrook (45:07)

Politico at the time claimed that Democrats were mostly quiet. I mean, I don't know if that jives with what was actually happening, but Politico wanted to write it that way. Number five is from ABC News. It was not.

Bruce Pearl (45:22)

Wow.

Josh Holmes (45:23)

It wasn't a fact.

John Ashbrook (45:24)

Check, fellas. It was not a fact check. Check. It was not Ryan Grim. It was a story with data and statistics about how Obama had deported two and a half million people. They were proud of it.

Michael Duncan (45:36)

They were proud of it.

Smug (45:36)

That's amazing.

Josh Holmes (45:37)

But because Trump was making it an issue in the campaign and let's throw the date back up, dude.

Smug (45:42)

That's a good point. Is that's why you would see something.

Josh Holmes (45:44)

Like that end of August, right before Labor Day. So the key inflection point in that campaign was Trump's immigration stance vis a vis Hillary Clinton. So you have to disabuse the Republican of his argument.

Smug (45:57)

That's 100% why they do that.

Bruce Pearl (45:58)

Here we are.

Smug (45:59)

Perfect. Yep. Dead on.

Josh Holmes (46:00)

That's incredibles.

Smug (46:02)

Incredible.

John Ashbrook (46:03)

What a great game.

Michael Duncan (46:03)

Great game.

Josh Holmes (46:04)

You know what? Thank you for putting it together.

Michael Duncan (46:06)

Great job putting it together. That was fantastic.

Josh Holmes (46:07)

Just a terrific historical look back on what was a country.

Michael Duncan (46:13)

I think we do that well here on the Ruthless Variety program.

Josh Holmes (46:16)

I think we do, too. I cannot wait for you to hear this interview. This guy is just gold all around. Bruce Pearl, if you are a fan of college basketball, I'm going to introduce you to somebody here that you're going to need no introduction for. He's an absolute legend. He has more than 700 wins. He's a guy that we grew up watching, idolizing for. What an incredible coach he was. Bruce Pearl. How are you, sir?

Bruce Pearl (46:41)

Holmes. Good to be here. Great to be here. Thank you.

Josh Holmes (46:43)

Listen, this is so fun. First of all, we love when we can break out from our own sort of political DC Deal and talk to a real person who does real things.

Bruce Pearl (46:55)

That'S had some skin in the game that, you know, like I say, sometimes teachers teach and coaches coach and. And those that can do and those that can't teach.

Josh Holmes (47:04)

Yeah, yeah.

Bruce Pearl (47:05)

It's. It's fair. Or talk about it.

Josh Holmes (47:07)

It's fair. And I'm not sure what that is in D.C. but listen, I want to start with the basketball and the coaching and all of this stuff because this is fascinating to all of our audience and. And to us. Southern Indiana, Milwaukee, Tennessee, Auburn. I mean, what are you, like a 75% win percentage? It worked out pretty much everywhere. Do you have. When you look back now because you just retired in September.

Bruce Pearl (47:33)

Yeah, Late September.

Josh Holmes (47:35)

Are there like a team or two or three games that you remember that stand out above all else?

Bruce Pearl (47:42)

No.

Josh Holmes (47:44)

Okay, moving on.

Bruce Pearl (47:47)

So listen, first of all, thank you. Like, as a older conservative Republican that loves his country. Thank you. We need more of you guys out There, you know, teaching and preaching to our young people and making it fun and talking some common sense and. So, no, it's great to be with you guys, and I'd love to keep doing it, you know, contributing to what you're doing. I don't know. Southern Indiana, Division 2. I think that the thing for me is everybody worries about where you're going instead about where you are. Do an unbelievable job with where you are. Don't worry about what's next. What's next gonna take care of itself if you do a great job where you are. So when I was an Assistant Coach for Dr. Tom Davis, I want to be the best assistant that he'd ever had. I wanted to serve him. I wanted to care about the winning and losing as much as he did, help him be successful, so on and so forth. And then when it came to be my own head coaching job, my first job was in Division 2. And a lot of people said, D2. Why would you go down to D2? Because I want to learn how to coach, and I want to, you know, want to challenge myself and treat it like a Division 1 job. And I wasn't worried about leaving, but because I did such a good job and 1. I was attractive all the way through. Yeah. Got another opportunity.

Josh Holmes (49:02)

I mean, you can see we always talk about the parallels of sports and politics and, you know, world events, but leadership in general. I mean, that principle that you just laid out is the only principle you ought to teach an intern in any line of work.

Bruce Pearl (49:15)

Right? Right.

Josh Holmes (49:16)

You do as good a job as you can do where you're at.

Bruce Pearl (49:18)

No doubt. And I think the other thing about leadership is we need way more Chiefs. Excuse me, way more Indians than we need Chiefs. You know, we need great teammates. I can't do anything, but I can lead. You know, but if you had a room full of leaders, nobody gets shit done. I mean, you know, nothing would happen.

John Ashbrook (49:38)

It's called the United States.

Bruce Pearl (49:39)

Yeah. I love it. No doubt. Right. But a lot of times we teach kids all the time what a leader is all about. You know, this is what you're all about. And we. And the kid goes, oh, my God, I'm none of those things. And they think it's. That there's something wrong with me. No, no, there isn't, man. We need some guys that can follow the lead and make some amazing things happen.

John Ashbrook (50:01)

Yeah.

Bruce Pearl (50:02)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (50:02)

I mean, well, look, you made amazing things. First of all, I remember the Milwaukee team made it.

Bruce Pearl (50:07)

My old Milwaukee team made a run. Yeah.

Josh Holmes (50:10)

And I mean, I remember Being a young college basketball fan, my dad and I would watch that and be like, look at this team. It's not supposed to do anything. You're just all of a sudden running everybody up one side and down the other.

Bruce Pearl (50:20)

It was cool. Milwaukee was a great town, especially in the summer.

Josh Holmes (50:24)

Yeah, yeah, right. Basketball season, you want to stay in the gym.

Bruce Pearl (50:27)

Yeah. Stay indoors. And I just always sort of treated, no matter where I was, at a really high level. I wanted to coach at a high major level. I wanted to develop, fundraise, get crowds, get the students to come build programs. And it mattered to me as far as I was kind of, if there was a word to describe me, a little relentless about where I've been. And I wanted to leave jobs better than I found them. But what happens is sometimes I treat jobs like the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee. Oh, it's not Madison. It's not the highest level. And I just, I just never treated it that way. And it wasn't that way as a school, wasn't that way as a town. And we weren't afraid to play against the big boys. And we knocked off some, some big time teams on our, you know, row. We went to the NCAA tournament, we beat Boston College, we beat Alabama, which got me that job. Quick story on my, how I got the Tennessee job.

John Ashbrook (51:17)

Yeah.

Bruce Pearl (51:18)

Beat Alabama and beat Boston College and Tennessee flies me in a freight, in an interview, and Philip Fulmer's at the airport, gets off the plane. Oh, my God. Legendary, legendary Philip Fulmer. He says, coach Pearl, I'm Philip Fulmer. He goes, I don't know who you are, but after you beat Alabama, you were my choice. And he turned around and walked away like, I knew I had the job right there. I had Fulmer's blessing.

Josh Holmes (51:43)

That's so good. I love that.

Michael Duncan (51:46)

So when you look at the landscape of college athletics now with all that benefit of hindsight and everything you did with talent development, you know, shaping these young men, and you see this new era of college sports with nil and everything, and it feels like we have basically a draft for all the best players every off season. You look at that landscape and you know, where do you think ultimately this thing heads? You know, if you had a magic wand, what would you do?

Bruce Pearl (52:11)

Okay, so, Duncan, first of all, the American college athletic scholarship, university system is the American dream. Nobody else in the world has anything like we have with intercollegiate athletics. What did it do? It brought rural men to college campuses who never thought about going to get a degree, but they were pretty good athletes. And so what the hell, I'll take the scholarship and I'll go play football, run track or do something. It brought inner city kids, white and black, into university systems. It brought women into. To chase the athletes. No, that's not true. You know, because of Title ix, the opportunities for them, it brought diversity on a college campus. It was no longer just intellectual think tanks. It was sort of societal, and it created great cultures and great communities. You guys follow college sports. I mean, it's unbelievable. It's a fabric. What we're doing on the court and what we're doing in the field is terrific. The product is still really good. But what has happened is the courts have ruled that the establishment and what the NCAA have been doing for years was just against the law. Yeah, I mean, just. It was against the law. It was the world's largest antitrust violator. You know, so what am I here in D.C. doing? I'm basically going around and visiting with senators and congressmen, trying to create a sense of urgency. I could speak to any Texas senator, congressional leader, and say, do you know what your football team's gonna cost you next year? Between 40 and 50 million for that roster in that year. Now, keep in mind, dial the hands of time back five, six years ago, you couldn't buy him a hamburger. I lost my job for having a barbecue at my house. Right. Let's keep it real. Right.

Josh Holmes (53:48)

Literally.

John Ashbrook (53:48)

That's true.

Josh Holmes (53:49)

Barbecue at his house.

Bruce Pearl (53:50)

And now you're spending $45 million a year just on a football team. Every. Where's that money coming from? It's doubling and tripling every single year. So what I'm asking Congress to just simply look at is this. Since we're breaking the law, aren't you lawmakers in charge? Can you not just adjust the laws so we can be in compliance with the law? How do you do that? If Congress would give college athletics just some limited antitrust ability. Just limited. Okay. And if they could classify. Have a special classification for the student athletes other than employees, there's some real problem. Because in other words, huge problems. Huge problem. Yeah. Nobody wants. You know, you lived it. Collective bargaining, unions, huge. No, we wouldn't have sport. We don't need it. The students don't want to be employees because they don't want to be fired. Universities don't want them as employees because it creates lots of other problems. As far as their benefits, they don't need to get involved. It would be too costly. So we both agree with that. Create special status for them so we can at least get in the room and agree to all the good ideas we have about the transfer portal or about eligibility or about how much somebody should make or about all the different great ideas on the table. We can't even get to that until the laws change and say, look, you guys need to get together in a room and agree to some things and we could do it. But problem is, obviously Congress doesn't move very fast at all. And if they don't do something, I don't know what's going to happen. Women's sports are going to run out of money and they already are. The non revenue sports are going to run out of money and you know what's going to happen? Trump's in charge of the 28 Olympics. You think he wants to sit up that box and watch us get our ass kicked? Yeah. Where are all of our Olympians right now? They're all on university campuses training and competing and developing and getting ready for the Olympics. Who's paying for it? Men's football. Men's football. I noticed with the Supreme Court had something that's like a clarify men's football by just football, you know. And men's basketball though, for what it's worth. Yeah. Flag or touch, it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.

Josh Holmes (55:59)

I've seen demos on no patience.

John Ashbrook (56:03)

Exactly.

Bruce Pearl (56:03)

So I think some limited help from Congress soon just says, guys, figure out a way to create the laws to let us get in the room and agree to some stuff and we can move on.

John Ashbrook (56:13)

One of the reasons why Congress is notoriously bad at coming together is because they all represent competing interests. And where I think this applies to NIL is you have some conferences that are good at certain sports and other conferences that are great at a lot of different sports. So for example, the sec, great basketball especially right now, also great football. And then you look at the Big east where it is basketball heavy. So do you think that changes to the NIL could advantage basketball programs in the Big east because they don't really care as much about their football programs as opposed to SEC basketball. And how does it work?

Josh Holmes (56:52)

How does it work in between? Because that's, that's your vantage point a little bit right now, right?

Bruce Pearl (56:57)

Well, like right now, the House settlement said that every university could spend up to $20.5 million. And as an increaser. Okay, well, let's say St. John's has 20.5 million and Auburn has 20.5 million. St. John's doesn't have a football team.

Josh Holmes (57:10)

Right. You know where it's going.

Bruce Pearl (57:11)

So therefore, if they want to spend 12 million on their basketball program. And Auburn says, well, listen, we're going to spend all this money on this and this and men's basketball. You get four. The powers in the SEC aren't going to let some little school in Jamaica Plains, New York, called St. John make that call. That's not going to happen.

Josh Holmes (57:27)

Just a patina whack.

Bruce Pearl (57:29)

No, it's just. No, it's not. I love Patino. Best coach in America, Rick Pitino. And my son just beat him. How about that? No, but we're trying to find a way to get an equal playing field. But things like that, or paying $4 million for a quarterback right now, or this transferring year after year after year, all these things are going to change.

Michael Duncan (57:51)

Even the timing of the transfer portal is like. It's like. It's not fair to the schools. It's not fair to the kids. You got kids having to make decisions while their team's, you know, in a national title hunt, taking finals and trying to transfer school.

Bruce Pearl (58:03)

It's. It's ridiculous.

John Ashbrook (58:04)

It.

Bruce Pearl (58:04)

It doesn't make any sense. And nobody's graduating because everybody's leaving year after year. You know, coach Pat Dye at Auburn, you say you could coach him as hard as you love them. Yeah, I love my kids. After a few years of going through some stuff, I love a dear friend, I love my wife. I love my kids. I love my country. That stuff took time. I'm not falling in love with you in six months. I'm not. Okay. And there are. Get over it.

Josh Holmes (58:28)

There are setbacks along the way, but.

Bruce Pearl (58:30)

That'S what builds relationships. When you're there for the kid, when he breaks up with his girl, he has a bad game and you stay with him and all those things. Now, all that stuff can get fixed, but only if we change the laws to allow some entity to give us the governing rules. And what the courts have said is you can't set your own rules because the student athletes aren't there to sit at the table and agree with them. Until we wrap our arms around that, all this talk about what would you do? Doesn't matter.

John Ashbrook (58:57)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh Holmes (58:59)

Listen, we were a big fan of you to begin with in the basketball context. Watch what you had done we just discussed. You became a legend, in our view, by speaking freely with your conscience about your views, your political views, your views with regard to Israel. Doing so uninhibited in a marketplace, frankly, that does everything that it can do to discourage people in your position from doing it. It's controversial. They say Right. I mean, it's all these things. And you were like, well, what am I doing here? What's my platform if I'm not using it for something that's right. And, I mean, that is from our perspective. That's where you go from a Hall of Fame coach to just an absolute legend.

Bruce Pearl (59:46)

Just. I'm just doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm just doing my part. Silence is complicity. Being as old as I am, I was able think about born in 1960. I saw a lot of stuff.

Josh Holmes (59:58)

Yeah.

Bruce Pearl (59:58)

And I saw real racism. I saw real race riots. I saw, you know, real, you know, lots of different things. But when I was in coaching and I go into high schools, take any city in America, some of the schools look like college campuses. I mean, the best technology and facilities and computers, and 10 miles down the road, it looks like a reform school. It looks like a prison. It looks like in the same town. And wait a second. This is just wrong. So what do you do about it? Shut up and just not. I'm sitting here watching this, going, this is wrong, or watching my kids get racially profiled or whatever it was. And then being an American Jew now, anti Semitism is not going anywhere. It's just here. It's been around forever. It's not going anywhere. But we got to protect ourselves from it. I've never gone to synagogue, and I go to synagogue a lot without a police officer at the door and in the parking lot. And he's not there to park cars. He's there to protect us as worshipers. So I'm not trying to make any sense of it, but I'm not going to sit on my ass and just not be able to call it out, not be. And the last thing I'd say simply about this, this is a basically conservative Republican, Right? Would you say, yeah, all right, great. I'd say made the mistake of voting for Barack Obama twice. I'm coaching African American men. I'm in their fight with them and saw. Because I want to teach my guys. Look, I don't want to hear about the obstacles. I don't want to hear about it. You can be anything you want to be. Barack Obama was elected twice. These are obstacles, not roadblocks. These are challenges. And so I'm grateful to my country. This country saved my family's life from the pogroms. My grandfather came over in 1929, and look at what this country has done for anybody that wanted to work hard, anybody that want to study, anybody that want to, you Know, we can be anything we want to be. Shut up. There were three Jewish basketball coaches in the Final Four. Shut up. Right, right. And so we should be grateful for the opportunities. Yeah, yeah. There's anti Semitism. Yeah. There are racism. Yeah. There are challenges, but this is still the greatest place in the entire world. Can we make it better? Yeah. And that's what I wanted to try to do. And I guess the last thing would be this. My grandfather, my Hebrew name is Mordechai. And Mordechai in the story of Aporim. And Queen Esther was. And it's in the book of Esther, that the first Holocaust was not going to be in Nazi Germany. It was actually going to be in Persia. And a guy named Haman had an idea to kill all the Jews. What he didn't really understand is that Queen Esther was sleeping with the king. She's got a little influence, you know what I'm saying? And so Mordecai, her uncle, says, hey, listen, Esther, if you don't start talking to the king about what's about to happen here, I'm going down. You're next. And so she did. And so my grandfather kind of taught me a little bit to sort of speak up. And then because I was coaching basketball players and in the African American teaching world, Dr. King, you know, and his courage, so on and so forth, so I just sort of took that on. And if it meant that I might lose my job or it meant that I might lose a player, you know, I might lose a player. Some parent is gonna. Some coach gonna say, hey, man, he's a racist. He didn't vote for Kamala Harris. Why would you send your son there? There were articles in USA Today or CNN saying, why would you ever. Son. Send your son to go play for Bruce Pearl? He's a racist. I'm a racist. Just because I thought Donald Trump would have been a way better president than Kamala Harris. Are you believing us? Crap. And that's what we gotta deal with. And so I just. I don't want. As long as you're on the side of right versus wrong, good versus evil, and the truth. The truth. I'm okay.

Josh Holmes (63:51)

Look, I think it's hard when you're in the middle of it. I'm sure you've had to deal with an enormous amount of shit. But the way we look at it, you know, looking in, remarkably few athletes, coaches, whomever go into the right side of the aisle and start speaking their mind, because there's just a whole apparatus that's built to try to Shut you up. But when you do it, and then you go 36 and 4 and you show up in the final four, and everybody's like, hey, he's the coach of the year. You know, you gotta give the hat off to him. But also, more importantly, you look at all the other talented younger generation coaches, players and whomever and say, it's okay. You can live your conscience. You can stand for what you believe in. You don't need to hide it. We can all kind of be in this thing together, which I think is the most important part about what you've been able to accomplish.

Bruce Pearl (64:48)

It is it's a great. We have a great melting pot. We really do. And I wish we were way more tolerant, each of different opinions of different races of different religions, of different way of doing things, which we're all a little bit more tolerant about it. You know, I caution some young coaches, they don't have to try to be like me in the sense that they gotta win, they gotta take care of their families. You don't wanna give somebody an excuse to fire you. At the same time, be who you are, just be authentic. And if you can't be authentic where you are, then you might wanna think about not being there anymore and going someplace else. That's the only thing I would say. So, yep, it's a great example of. It's worked out pretty well.

Josh Holmes (65:26)

It sure has.

Bruce Pearl (65:28)

And now, you know, I'm not coaching anymore. I did. I gave it to my son and that staff. And I'm so proud of those guys. They're doing great. They play, they got, you know, they're doing really well. They're doing really well. I get a lot of flack, you know, I get a lot to go back to Israel. I go, I get a lot of this. Like, I love this country. I would give my life for this country, truly. Like, I could be one of those old guys on the front line. Like, you know what, when you're being chased by an alligator, you don't need to be fast, but you just need to be faster than me. Right? And I'm slow. So, look, I've had a good run. I've had a good run. I'd get out there on the front line, give me a gun, let me get shot, and you be safe. You got kids to have. You got a long life. I feel that way. But at the same time, I can still love my Jewish ancestral homeland totally. I can still love my faith. It doesn't make me less American, but it's the argument you get so every time I'm on Twitter and I tweet about anything else other than Israel, they go, oh, my God, thank God he finally said something other than about Jews in Israel.

Michael Duncan (66:27)

Well, I have to imagine it's particularly jarring when you've made an entire career being a coach, part of this higher education part of America, and then you see all of this anti Semitism pop up on college campuses. I have to imagine, like, that was sort of an out of body experience as somebody who's been in that line of work.

Bruce Pearl (66:48)

I mean, look, right now you've got thousands of Iranians, women, men, that are out there in the streets just asking for freedom and not have to live under this Islamic extremism insanity. Right now. Where are the college protesters? Where are they? On every Ivy League campus. They ought to be ashamed of themselves for not being out there in thousands. You know, one of the things that I was hoping I got yesterday, I went to the Supreme Court steps and I stood for women. And I was so proud to be able to do that. Kind of felt like I was representing Pat Summit, who was my dad.

Smug (67:19)

Wasn't that incredible?

Bruce Pearl (67:20)

Oh, my God, it was so good. And to see all these courageous girls and to see what Title IX has done.

Josh Holmes (67:24)

Didn't you, like, paint your chest?

Michael Duncan (67:26)

Yeah.

Josh Holmes (67:26)

Yeah.

Bruce Pearl (67:26)

Good. I'm ready to go paint my chest. Not anymore. America, you've seen quite enough of this bodywork. I know I'm keeping my shirt on, but I was hoping for more pro Iran rallies, Even here in D.C. i was gonna jump in. I want to be in on that. I don't know. We're afraid to teach, we're afraid to have hard conversations, you know, because at a university, we gotta teach both sides to this. Wait a second. You know what? Sometimes there are both sides, good versus evil, right versus wrong. But we want to be institutionally neutral.

Josh Holmes (67:58)

Yeah, right.

Bruce Pearl (67:59)

Really doesn't work. It doesn't work. Like right now, you know, this country, President Trump is leading, okay? And the haters might not like everything he says or how he says it. He's got a little bit of an ego. I get it. There's never been a better president in my mind in the history of our country. Especially with what he inherited, like what he inherited. This world was a dangerous place. He's just trying to make it safer. But you talk about clean up on aisle seven. I mean, it's ridiculous, all the crap that he has had to clean up. But the Middle east is safer right now.

Josh Holmes (68:33)

No question.

Bruce Pearl (68:33)

Iran has got a chance to be free assad's no longer in Syria. Hamas and those Gazans are no longer in prison. We got a fighting chance here. I am an immigrant. I am for immigration. All for immigration. But it's got to be legal and it's got to be right. And it's made America better and make America great. But all the illegals, all the criminals, all the mess that they allowed. I don't get it, Holmes. Why? Can you give me a good reason why we opened up the doors for four years? I mean, a good reason. No. I mean, it's all cynical.

Josh Holmes (69:10)

I mean, the only thing you can justify it with is you want more. Either a cash funnel that goes back to fund their own deal or votes. There is no other answer to it. There is no other answer.

Bruce Pearl (69:21)

It's wrong. And then, you know, ripping off the government has sort of become a sport. Like, people don't look at it like you go to jail for stuff like that. Yeah. In my line of work in education, I saw a lot of educational programs out there. Wink, wink. Yeah, like, where are the kids? I see some books here, and I see some desk man dudes all over the country just pocketing cash saying, well, we're running this SAT prep program or one of this Leave no Child behind program. There's nobody in the. Nobody sitting there.

Josh Holmes (69:52)

It turns out the left wing has had an nil program on college campuses for quite some time, and it's a big money deal. Yeah, it might be bigger than nil.

Bruce Pearl (70:01)

Facts. I'll take the fifth on that.

Josh Holmes (70:04)

Yeah, right. I mean, like, ask you to blow things up. But look, as you sit viewing this whole thing, I think you did a great job of laying out your view of the Iran, Israel peace, the relative peace in comparison. At least you can see a pathway to peace in the Middle East. First time in a long time, this president doing something about it. But again, you're not afraid to speak to that, which I think is super important. Do you think there is on campuses in athletics in general, just sort of blinders about all things politics? I mean, because to an awful lot of conservatives, when you look at it, you're like, wow. I mean, these guys are all just kind of playing the game to just, they want to get paid, they want to do their job or whatever, but they know what's going on. And then occasionally you get Lebron's or somebody who's out speaking with the left side, which is covered dutifully. Is it just I want to ignore because I got a job to do, or is there a healthy fear of Repercussion from an athlete's standpoint of speaking on anything right of center, do you think?

Bruce Pearl (71:11)

I would imagine that there probably is. I would imagine that by being right of center and being public about it, you're going to take some flack from some of your friends that are center and left. Are you going to cut down on your. And it would be in certain parts of the country, like in Auburn, you're center and right. Your nils actually could be worth more.

Josh Holmes (71:29)

Yeah, right.

Bruce Pearl (71:30)

I mean.

Josh Holmes (71:32)

Yeah, you're right.

Bruce Pearl (71:33)

Geographic. It could be geographic thing. I tell you what, schools in the southeastern part of our country are just going crushing it, growing and crushing it. And parents want to send their kids to a place where it's going to be safe. Right. And then have to be exposed to some of this craziness. And good culture. Good culture. Good people love their country, love their faith, love their family, love their neighbor and are willing to have differences of opinion without losing their minds. So I don't know. Look, we just got to continue to do the right things, lead by example. I often tell Jewish coaches or Jewish players or Jewish kids, look, you got to be a little better, you got to be a little kinder, you got to be a little more generous, you got to be a little bit more patient, you gotta be a little bit more aware. Cause you're judged at a little bit of a different level. And so fine, just try and be better. That's why I wanted my student athletes. That's the way I want my kids. That's why you want your kids. Just gotta be. Doesn't make us better. But we shouldn't be penalized for trying to be better.

John Ashbrook (72:37)

Yeah.

Bruce Pearl (72:38)

Or live better.

John Ashbrook (72:39)

So I got a question for you. Just after hearing you talk here for just a few minutes, obviously you're a great leader of so many different, different types of people. You're a tracker, you got track record of winning and obviously a fierce competitor. I just wonder, are you. Would you ever run for something? I mean, is that, is that something people tried?

Josh Holmes (72:58)

I heard people were making calls.

Bruce Pearl (73:00)

Yeah, I. I really thought one of the things that actually smashed. That's a great question. One of the things. Not that you didn't ask great questions also, I didn't mean to. Dunkins a diplomat. I was. Sorry. But I'm not a diplomat. That's the problem. I'm not a politician. I'm too direct. I'm too much of an idealistic. And so one of the things that actually kind of propelled my getting out of coaching was I really Worked hard in April and May of this past year of thinking about running for the United States Senate. When Tommy Tuberville decided he was going to become governor, run for governor and the seatbe came open. I was intrigued by it because I was waking up every morning really not caring as much about beating Kentucky or Indiana or whoever as I was our country. Yeah, that was just always that. I sort of shifted gears on that and now why didn't I run? I didn't run because the red Alabama Republican seat is going to be maga, conservative, faith, family and pro Israel. Those would be the things that I would care about. There's no way that seat goes to anybody else other than somebody like that. So my vote there in the Senate wouldn't have mattered that much. Yeah, there was some opposition and some challenges actually to my running. I was gonna have a challenge to even get on a ballot.

John Ashbrook (74:14)

Why?

Bruce Pearl (74:15)

Because the Republican party in the state of Alabama had a rule and other states had this rule that if you donated to a Democrat in the last six years, if you've voted for a Democrat. Oh, the bylaws, the bylaws. You can't even get on a ballot but there's a three quarter vote that from some state legislative Republican leaders to get you back on the ballot.

Josh Holmes (74:34)

So you'd have to work the state legislature.

Bruce Pearl (74:36)

I'd have to, yeah, I'd have to work the state legislature to try to get on the ballot and well, everybody.

Josh Holmes (74:40)

Knows that's not worth your time.

Bruce Pearl (74:42)

Yeah, one, one at a time.

Michael Duncan (74:44)

I've never understood those rules because it's like Donald Trump was a Democrat, he donated Democrats. Like there's a lot of Democrats who voted for Donald Trump.

Josh Holmes (74:51)

We're changing.

Michael Duncan (74:52)

Yeah, right.

Bruce Pearl (74:52)

Here's the other thing too. I look, this is an amazing place. I come up here and I'm just honored to walk. It's hallowed ground and there are some amazing people up here but there's some real stupid people out here, right?

John Ashbrook (75:07)

Oh yeah.

Bruce Pearl (75:08)

I mean stupid people and people that are self serving and just anti American and I just don't think, I don't think I can do as much good in as I can out. I'm staying outside the halls of confidence.

Josh Holmes (75:21)

Congress the first day on an Ohio clock corridor press conference. Pearl Buff Imagine somebody.

Bruce Pearl (75:31)

I'm probably not far.

John Ashbrook (75:33)

He'd have a lot more interesting things to say than most of the other people.

Josh Holmes (75:35)

No question about it. No question. I hope you don't write that off. Maybe there's a right circumstance at some point somewhere, sometime your voice is so important to politics in general. You don't have to hold office to do it, obviously.

Michael Duncan (75:49)

Or you can just keep on coming in here and talking to us.

Bruce Pearl (75:51)

Yeah, I definitely will because I'm relentless and I can be ruthless.

John Ashbrook (75:57)

Yeah.

Bruce Pearl (75:58)

And no, I just. I'm grateful for what you guys are doing, and I'm grateful for the kids and the younger people that are out there that are listening to this and learning and thinking, hearing from new ideas. And, you know, again, it's, you know, the things that have made our country great, those Judean Christian values, the. That our foundation was built on, we just can't, you know, get away from them. I know this is crazy, and I don't agree with anything that Ilhan Omar stands for. Rashida Tlaib out of Michigan. She is the most anti Semite, you know, pro Palestinian, anti. Okay. But you know what? She's in the House of Representatives. She's in the house, the people's house. The people in Michigan voted her in out of Dearborn. The Somali population voted Omar in. That's the way our country works. That's the way our country works now. I wish when we got here, we could somehow be Americans and not just be so partisan in everything that we do to get, you know, to get. To get better stuff done. And yet we're still the greatest country in the world. Yeah, Right. Stay optimistic. In spite of all of our challenges.

Josh Holmes (77:04)

You'Re welcome here anytime. He's one of the greatest companies, basketball coaches in the history of the game. Bruce Pearl, thank you so much for joining us.

Bruce Pearl (77:10)

Appreciate you. Thank you.

John Ashbrook (77:14)

I mean, what a treat to have him in. The guy is obviously a basketball expert, one of the greatest coaches of all time. We were talking about this off air. Just like you put his name up there with all of the greats, and then he's taken a stand on important stuff and he's not afraid. And I just feel like that conversation was really good and I hope to have him back.

Josh Holmes (77:32)

Terrific dude. Love every single second of it. Grew up idolizing him. I hope he comes back early and often because.

Bruce Pearl (77:40)

Great.

Josh Holmes (77:40)

Just a fun guy to talk to, too. All right, remember our question of the day. You've seen Katanji Brown Jackson. You've seen Tim Walls this week. Who's the dumbest lib and why?

Bruce Pearl (77:51)

Incredible.

Josh Holmes (77:52)

Great question. When you like and subscribe to the Ruthless Friday program, we get back to the very next episode. In this case, it's gonna be Tuesday. We will have some laughs and get your responses and go on our merry way on what is to be an eventful week. Fellas, I think we did it.

Smug (78:08)

I think so. Absolute banger of an episode. Gentlemen, thank you so much, Bruce Pearl, and thank you to the listeners. Remember, if you have not yet, go to the YouTube hit that subscribe because it's more fun in video. So until next time, minions, keep the faith, hold the line and own the libs. We'll see you on Tuesday. Stay ruthless.