The Truth About the Economy + Mike Rogers for Michigan

Summary

Ruthless Podcast Episode Summary

Episode: The Truth About the Economy + Mike Rogers for Michigan
Date: December 11, 2025
Hosts: Josh Holmes, Comfortably Smug, Michael Duncan, John Ashbrook
Special Guest: Mike Rogers, Senate Candidate (Michigan)

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Overview

This high-energy episode of the Ruthless Podcast tackles the truth behind America’s economic struggles, punctured with signature humor and blunt critique. The cast dissects the ongoing “affordability” debate, the political sleight-of-hand from Democrats, and how the current administration’s policies have impacted everyday Americans’ wallets. They round out the proceedings with the inimitable “King of the Hill” game and an in-depth interview with Michigan Senate candidate Mike Rogers—making the episode both substantive and entertaining.

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Main Discussion: “Affordability” and Economic Truths

The Real Story on the Economy

Key Points:

• Democrats are pushing an “affordability” narrative after years of disregarding rising prices and inflation.
• The crew argue that economic hardships are a result of Democratic policies, citing high inflation and the Affordable Care Act’s impact on healthcare premiums.

Notable Quotes

• Josh Holmes [00:00]: “The question is, what's the real story about why their pocketbook looks the way it does?”
• Michael Duncan [00:05]: “Isn't that sort of the funniest part of this, like, this, like, affordability ruse that the Democrats are pretending they care about?”

Timestamps & Segments

• 00:00–06:00: Panel satirically examines Democratic talking points on affordability, recalling government shutdowns and the inflation blame game.
• 03:01–04:36: Laughter over how past Democratic economic maneuvers have set today’s problems in motion.

Democratic “Moderates” & Red State Illusions

• Democrats advance moderates like Andy Beshear (KY) as the face of reason, but the hosts allege this is a façade for left-wing policymaking.
• John Ashbrook [05:18]: “Democrats will put somebody who seems moderate forward... Elizabeth Warren's entire staff is stealing your money, raising prices and ruining healthcare. This is how Democrats operate.”

Media Echo Chamber & the Messaging Game

• Hosts argue mainstream media uncritically parrot the Democratic narrative, shielding Democrats from accountability.
• Michael Duncan [08:23]: “Democrats are pretending they care about affordability… your first talking point is electric vehicles.”

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Health Care: Obamacare & Democratic Spin

Whose Crisis?

• Democrats, led by Amy Klobuchar and others, now decry an “affordability crisis” in healthcare. The panel calls this intellectually dishonest since those same Democrats created and supported Obamacare.
• Josh Holmes [10:41]: “A health care system that she voted for along with every other Democrat, which Republicans unanimously said would break the marketplace and create higher priced health care.”

Notable Exchange

• Michael Duncan [11:40]: “Balls, the balls to say in one sentence that we need to fix our health care system because Donald Trump broke it. Our health care system is Obamacare.”

Bernie Sanders: The Outlier

• Bernie is cited as at least honest about the left’s goal: breaking the system to advance single-payer government healthcare.
• John Ashbrook [13:20]: “The only people that can be honest in the Democratic Party… are like, it didn't break the system enough.”

Timestamps

• 10:41–13:11: Obamacare’s failures, rising premiums, and the Democrats’ maneuver to shift blame.

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The Democratic Economic Playbook

Graphics, Gaslighting, and Historical Revisionism

• The hosts lampoon misleading Senate Majority PAC graphics blaming Republicans for rising beef prices, despite data overwhelmingly showing price spikes under Biden.
• Josh Holmes [17:37]: “The price of beef skyrocketed in the four years that Joe Biden was President of the United States.”

Inflation, Wages & Gas Prices: The Trump vs. Biden Scorecard

• Michael Duncan [26:18]: “Inflation... averaged 2.7% so far. And Trump's second term averaged 5% under Biden and peaked at 9.1%."
• Real wage growth has been positive under Trump (+4%), but fell under Biden (-1.3%), meaning Americans actually lost purchasing power due to higher inflation.

Notable Analogy

• Josh Holmes [28:15]: "It's like getting caught in a whorehouse and being like, oh, abstinence only, folks."

Timestamps

• 26:18–28:09: Trump-Biden comparison: inflation and wage growth.
• 29:11: Steve Schmidt (the show's Steve, not the well-known political strategist) asks for visuals to highlight the economic pain under Biden.

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Political Strategy & Messaging

Winning the Narrative

• Republicans must focus on “pocketbook” issues—real, tangible concerns to voters—rather than let Democrats control the narrative.
• Josh Holmes [19:47]: “If there's one area where you're going to break your pick, this is it... The idea that you're going to allow A bunch of Democrats who systematically ruined health care and the pocketbooks of most Americans to frame a debate about affordability…”

Looking Forward, Not Backward

• There’s an acknowledgment that while it’s critical to explain how we got here, candidates must also provide a positive vision for future growth.
• Josh Holmes [34:14]: “The great challenge for every president... is to discuss things not as this is the best thing ever now, because no one has ever voted for now.”

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King of the Hill: Signature Ruthless Game

(42:00–53:51)

• The hilarious guessing game spotlights the absurdities of online political personalities (notably Steve Schmidt and Ron Filipowski).
• Notable Moment:
  • Josh Holmes [46:19]: “If you know the story of Rocky, you know that Rocky won. Nothing. ...but him standing. The whole story was about him staying in the fight. Right? The most inspirational tale of all time.”
• Banter includes riffing on Democrats “rooting for Apollo Creed” simply because Trump associates with Rocky imagery and wild social media accusations by the game’s subjects.

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Featured Interview: Mike Rogers for Michigan Senate

(54:23–78:49)

Background & Context

• Mike Rogers is seeking to become the first Republican in Michigan’s Senate delegation since 1994.

Key Points

• Michigan’s moment: Open seat, fractured Democratic field, energized and unified Republican base.

  • Mike Rogers [54:40]: “30 years putting a Republican back in the state of Michigan, which is crazy because we're a 50.50 state even at best.”

• Rogers touts his blue-collar appeal and practical approach, contrasting with what he paints as Democratic extremism on issues like EV mandates and transgender athlete participation.

  • Mike Rogers [58:00]: “We have another one who believes that the California EV mandates, which would eliminate ... people who make gas engines, voted in support of that, should be great.”
  • Mike Rogers [58:19]: “And then the last one is kind of leading the charge on putting men in women's sports and women's locker rooms.”

• The importance of addressing economic opportunity, reviving manufacturing, and restoring federal attention to Michigan.

  • Mike Rogers [62:46]: “We used to build tanks... That doesn't happen in Michigan. ...I argue it's because you haven't had a senator who is willing to use the leverage of the United States Senate to keep us in the game.”

Culture Issues and Law Enforcement

• Rogers criticizes Democrats for “defunding police,” supporting criminals over victims, and “social worker” approaches to crime.

  • Mike Rogers [72:20]: “We’ve had folks want to defund the police... their job is hard on a good day, let alone when you take away their protections and you make them the bad guys.”

• Gives a real-world example of parental outrage over transgender athletes competing in girls’ sports and using locker rooms.

  • Mike Rogers [75:17]: “The courage of this young woman, who yesterday got up to the microphone and told people why it was wrong. Good for her... But think about what it took for her. I mean, a lot of guts to come up and have the guts to talk about, but the fact that she has to do it, that Democrats have lost their mind.”

Healthcare & Policy Solutions

• Rogers positions himself as knowledgeable from past efforts in Congress:
  • Mike Rogers [68:34]: “We got to drive that home... Our answer is winning, by the way. You had your chance. You gave us this monster [Obamacare].”

Closing Message

• Mike Rogers [77:35]: “If you're looking to make a difference in a race... this is the place to make that investment because it will make it tough because they just count on this seat. We can always win this.”

Where to Support:

• RogersForSenate.com

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Closing Thoughts

Josh Holmes [79:14]:
"Proud to spotlight a candidate who 'knows and talks about [the issues]' ... He’s just an absolutely terrific guy and I can’t wait to see what the success that brings in that campaign."

Steve Schmidt [79:58]:
"Absolute banger of an episode… keep the faith, hold the line and own the libs. We’ll see you on Friday. Stay ruthless."

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Key Timestamps by Topic

• 00:00–06:00: Affordability narrative origins; government shutdown context
• 10:41–14:53: Obamacare origins, Democrat blame-shifting, Bernie honesty
• 17:01–18:54: Senate Majority PAC’s misleading graphics dissected
• 26:18–28:09: Real wage and inflation facts, Biden vs. Trump
• 42:00–53:51: King of the Hill game: roasting political absurdities
• 54:23–78:49: In-depth Mike Rogers interview: Michigan Senate race & key policy issues

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Summary Tone:
Unapologetically irreverent, blunt, and humorous, with sharp critique of Democratic policies and messaging, framed as a wake-up call for conservative listeners.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode:
This episode embodies Ruthless’ signature style: mixing fierce policy critique with entertainment. It’s a must-listen for those wanting conservative analysis of the economy, healthcare, and 2024 electoral prospects—along with a front seat to the Michigan Senate race and plenty of quotable zingers.

Transcript

[Josh Holmes]

The question is, what's the real story about why their pocketbook looks the way it does?

[Michael Duncan]

Isn't that sort of the funniest part of this, like, this, like, affordability ruse that the Democrats are pretending they care about? Because when asked, like, does the Biden administration bear some responsibility for the inflation that's happened in the country and rising prices and that sort of thing, well, you're not talking about prices at the grocery store. Nothing about, like, money in the pockets of American families. Your first talking point is electric vehicles.

[Josh Holmes]

Their economic vision does. That's the bottom line. It's created problems time after time. So we're going to give you the truth about where things actually sit.

[John Ashbrook]

And here we are a year later, after they lied to you, and they expect us to believe that they have the solution. They ruined it.

[Josh Holmes]

You have to give people a reason to believe things are getting better. And everything that we just went through are those reasons. And you have, it's. You're not making it up. The data is all there.

I've worked at Coca Cola for 21 years.

[Mike Rogers]

We're delivering Dr. Pepper from our brand.

[John Ashbrook]

New facility in Dallas, Texas.

[Steve Schmidt]

We're really proud to still make Pepsi products in America.

[Josh Holmes]

You don't need a college degree to work here, but I put four kids through college by working here.

[Mike Rogers]

This is a great place to work.

[Michael Duncan]

With great people and great American brands.

[Steve Schmidt]

Grocery stores, convenience stores, restaurants, they all depend on us.

[Josh Holmes]

We deliver great paying jobs.

[Mike Rogers]

We deliver beverages. People love.

[Steve Schmidt]

We deliver for our community.

[John Ashbrook]

Ladies and gentlemen, your attention please.

[Steve Schmidt]

Keep the faith, hold the line and own the lids.

[John Ashbrook]

It's time for our main event.

[Josh Holmes]

A very good Thursday to all of you. Welcome back to the Ruthless Variety Program. I am Josh Holmes along with comfortably smug Michael Duncan and John Ashbrook, left to right, across your radio dial. As always, I don't know if you all have noticed, but some folks have taken leave of their senses. And, well, there's a bit of a debate about the status of the economy in the United States of America and how we got to this particular place and what we're doing going forward. And I can't get enough of it. Fellas, it is fantastic. Now, you saw President Trump go to Pennsylvania this week to begin what the White House is categorizing as a full court press on talking about the economy, traveling around the country, making sure everybody understands. And the reason why that's necessary, unbelievably, is because Democrats, after shutting down the government for, what was it, 50 days?

[Mike Rogers]

Yep.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, it was at least that.

[John Ashbrook]

Right Unprecedented longest ever.

[Josh Holmes]

They decided to pop out the back end of that and start talking about affordability.

[Michael Duncan]

I got to congratulate them on finding religion. It only took them five years.

[Josh Holmes]

You know, that's the hilarity to this whole thing. Recall that that shutdown in and of itself was about how Republicans were responsible for Obamacare or so that's the way that they framed it. And then they pop out of that and they're like, well, what about the prices? What about how do we get this inflation? As if 16, $6 trillion go into green New Deal scams and fraud and state and local slush funds and all of that stuff didn't contribute. Was it 19% that it hit the high inflation, 9.1, 9.9 or 9. 9.1. And there was at one point it was like 13 mid quarter.

And we all know how we got there. The problem is in politics is not everybody listens to the Ruthless Variety Program. We should change that. When you like and subscribe to the Ruthless Variety Program and urge all your friends to do so.

[John Ashbrook]

You can change that.

[Josh Holmes]

You can change that. We wouldn't have to have a debate about how we got all this inflation if you just listened because we've been covering this fairly diligently.

[John Ashbrook]

Sure have.

[Josh Holmes]

Haven't we, fellas?

[John Ashbrook]

Sure have.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, Democrats are banking on people not listening to the Ruthless Variety Program. And one of our favorites who has not been on in a while. But this guy is hilarious. Hilariously out of touch with everything. He's the governor of Kentucky. Recall, like Democrats have had exactly one W in a red state in years. And this was in Kentucky where Andy Beshear, who I think fancies himself as sort of like a presidential contender in 2028.

[Mike Rogers]

Well.

[Michael Duncan]

And the Democrats have seen him as a rising star. I believe at one point he gave a keynote like the response to the State of the Union back in the Trump.

[Mike Rogers]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

You know, so. So like this is like their. A1. A like most qualified guy.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

To go out there and talk about stuff.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, he's like. But he's like, it fits into that Tim Walls category is like, oh, he's a regular guy.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

Except this is also kind of like a problem where you get red states. Solid rock, you know, ruby red states. And then they elect like a Democrat governor. And so every Democrat starts thinking like, is this guy presidential material? North Carolina suffers the same.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

Kind of problem. Bashir's the latest that they're trying to be like, maybe he could be the one.

[Josh Holmes]

Or were you gonna say smash?

[John Ashbrook]

I was just gonna say that we all know the ruse and we were talking about it before the show. The ruse is that Democrats will put somebody who seems moderate forward. And then while that person is in front of the cameras, Elizabeth Warren's entire staff is stealing your money, raising prices and ruining healthcare. This is how Democrats operate.

[Josh Holmes]

They're the salesmen.

[John Ashbrook]

Exactly.

[Steve Schmidt]

Dude, you're right.

[Josh Holmes]

And then meanwhile, the sale is being manipulated.

[John Ashbrook]

They did it to great effect during the Biden administration and we're still suffering from the consequences. And they're trying to do it again. And who knows who they put up in 2028. Maybe it's Andy Beshear. Maybe Andy Beshear only gets the number two job. Maybe he's simply a spokesperson for whatever lib they put forward. But the reality is that Democrats will continue to ruin this country and that's why everybody needs to listen to the show like the ruthless variety program to get the act.

[Josh Holmes]

Can I ask you a question? Because it may be falls into a category that you've covered here before, Johnny. Did they do it in secret?

[John Ashbrook]

They do. And they get away with it every single time.

[Josh Holmes]

They do it in secret. So have a look at this guy. Andy Beshear Clip one Does the former administration deserve at least some of the criticism?

[Michael Duncan]

Well, the former administration was attempting to.

[Mike Rogers]

Build the economy of tomorrow, investing in.

[Michael Duncan]

Really important industries like EVs in chips.

[Josh Holmes]

In areas for our national security that we've got to catch up with the.

[Michael Duncan]

Rest of the world.

[Mike Rogers]

Were they successful?

[John Ashbrook]

Said.

[Michael Duncan]

That the Biden administration was building.

[Mike Rogers]

The economy of Tomorrow, focused on EVs, chips and other.

[Steve Schmidt]

That's amazing.

[Josh Holmes]

It's almost like national security. But our families were saying we need.

[Mike Rogers]

The economy of right now.

[Michael Duncan]

Our families wages were catching up to inflation. President Trump going to inherit a good healthy economy.

[Steve Schmidt]

What?

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Dude.

[Steve Schmidt]

Dude, that is brutal. I mean, you guys putting this together. You guys were like, no, you really have to see it. That guy, I mean, how did he win? Talk about a talentless hack.

[Michael Duncan]

I mean, remarkable that you get that record, Skip. You know when seriously. And then he just goes right back to the talking point. The economy of tomorrow, the economy of the future and then the exact same talking points on EVs.

[Josh Holmes]

We do not live in a world where that's acceptable. We don't. We no longer live in a world where you can be interrupted and then skip the record back like an old school 1970s.

[Steve Schmidt]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Record and then start over again and think that's going to be an acceptable answer.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah. Democrats are incapable of having a real conversation with anybody, because the way they have been trained is to interact with reporters who are better writers for Democrat advancement than they are themselves. Yeah. I mean, they are interacting with their own party on a daily basis. Every time they call the New York Times or CNN or Washington Post, they're literally calling press secretaries who are paid for by a different employee.

[Michael Duncan]

Isn't that sort of the funniest part of this, like, this, like, affordability ruse that the Democrats are pretending they care about? Because when asked, like, does the Biden administration bears some responsibility for the inflation that's happened in the country and rising prices and that sort of thing? Well, you're not talking about prices at the grocery store. Nothing about, like, money in the pockets of American families. Your first talking point is electric vehicles.

[John Ashbrook]

And trying to catch up to the rest of the world. Like, everybody in China is driving around in an electric vehicle.

[Steve Schmidt]

And we just covered that. Like, they spent 5 million per postal service electric car that are just sitting there and it's, dude, you're 100% right. They don't actually have any solutions. They are the ones who caused the problem. And now they're like a deer in headlights trying to be like, doesn't the Biden administration deserve responsibility for what they've done?

[Josh Holmes]

Also, not for nothing, knowing a little something about the Commonwealth of Kentucky, largest employer in that state, a victim of the EV mandates. They make hybrids. They were not fans.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, right.

[Josh Holmes]

So it's not even like he's representing his own people. What he's doing, those documents, that's the talking point they came up with that we're like, oh, this will shred it. Yeah, this is good things like electric vehicles. Well, look, he's like one of many, one of the more compliant sort of folks out there. When you go to D.C. and you catch some of these people, it's unbelievable. Amy Klobuchar Clip 2 Republicans can't kick this problem down the road to January. It's not a January problem. It's not a February problem. It's, it's a now problem. So we have once again offered a straightforward solution. Obviously, there's many more things we would do to reform our health care system and make it more affordable. But right now, to stem this disaster and crisis that Donald Trump has created by refusing to do anything, it's called Obamacare, the tax credits for the Affordable Care Act. We are saying right now we can do this. I just want to be, I want to be totally clear with people because sometimes this gets lost in rhetoric. She's talking about an affordability crisis, about a health care system. A health care system that she voted for along with every other Democrat, which Republicans unanimously said would break the marketplace and create higher priced health care. Break the health care system.

[John Ashbrook]

Pretty simple argument.

[Josh Holmes]

It did it over a course of 9, 10 years. At the end of the 9, 10 years, they saw an opportunity with COVID where it's a health care issue. And so they're like, I don't know, on a partisan basis. Now that we've controlled the government again, we're going to subsidize the shitty thing that we put in place that hasn't worked for 10 years and we're just going to throw more taxpayer dollars, but we're going to take out the middleman on this sucker. We're going to just send all that money directly to the insurance companies and I am absolutely certain those premiums will come down as a result. So they did it and it was a three year deal. And your premiums escalate. If they're anything like the premiums that we all signed off on in October.

[Steve Schmidt]

God, they've gone up.

[Josh Holmes]

They went up 35%. And like many of you have been wrestling with this for the better part of 15 years. And this lady has got the balls.

[Steve Schmidt]

The nerve of these people, the brass.

[Michael Duncan]

Balls, the balls to say in one sentence that we need to fix our health care system because Donald Trump broke it. Our health care system is Obamacare. We would like to find a lot of ways to reform this system and make it more affordable again. You called it the Affordable Care act, but it's his fault that he won't renew these subsidies for this system we set up.

[Josh Holmes]

So the whole thing is built on intellectual dishonesty. Right, Right. Well, it comes to affordability. And you hear Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer have done great quotes of this over the last, where it's almost like a sociopathic, like inability to recognize what they have done to create a crisis and an economic crisis and then just sort of lay it at the feet of Donald Trump. Well, there are a few intellectually honest Democrats out there. They just happen to be the left wing lunatics who just want a single payer health care system where you go do the same thing that like happens in Great Britain with the NHS where you wait for four months to get a surgery because you're in line behind the homeless guy and you can't get care anywhere. That's why they all come here, by the way. That's why they all come. If you ever at Like Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, or any place you're in line. Where you're looking at in the waiting room is a bunch of like Saudi princes. They come here because they can't deal with their own nationalized health care. But Bernie Sanders has a little bit of intellectual honesty.

[Mike Rogers]

Clip 3 the truth of the matter is, before the big beautiful bill, our health care system was a disaster.

[Josh Holmes]

It is dysfunctional.

[Mike Rogers]

And the American people and Democrats have.

[John Ashbrook]

Got to deal with the fact he's right. Yeah, it is dysfunctional. They, they made it, they created it. Right?

[Josh Holmes]

Because Bernie back in the day was arguing for a single payer.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, that's the thing, is that the only people that can be honest in the Democratic Party, who are the people who are like, it didn't far enough, it didn't break the system enough.

[Steve Schmidt]

And that's the thing is it was all by design when you had Pelosi and these Democrats say, well, you have to vote for it to know what's in it is because the intent of Obamacare was to break the system to the point that they get exactly what they wanted, full government control. They wanted to. There was a system that they had in place where like, I don't know about this marketplace. We already have. What if we made it so that Americans don't have an option?

[John Ashbrook]

And.

[Steve Schmidt]

And then it falls apart. And so then everyone's like, well, we gotta do something. Public option. That's what this is. What Bernie himself is right there, just basically saying, come on, guys, it's time for full communism. Now, when are you gonna get on board? They broke it because they've always wanted this.

[Josh Holmes]

This is what we're living under it. Whether it is an affordability issue or whether it is a healthcare issue that has prompted your concern. They built those things. And I hate the fact that we have to keep coming back. I don't like retrospective messaging at all. But we can't establish a common set of facts about how you are where you are. You have to do it before you talk prospectively, because it's not like you can push a button and change everything about the economy. It's an ocean liner. It takes a while to turn these things right.

[John Ashbrook]

And the sales pitch, if you remember, was that this would bend the cost curve down. I mean, that's an absolute lie. They knew it was a lie at the time. Everybody who wrote the stories about it knew it was a lie at the time, but they wrote it anyway. They said that you could keep your doctor if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. How many people listening to this show are still able to see the same doctors they saw before 2009? I would bet not very many. It is a terrible system. They forced it upon you and they told you to like it. And every single year, let's not pretend this is the first time premiums have gone up every single year. They've gone up and gone up and gone up. And guess what? They were way too high in 2009 to begin with. Yeah, way too high to begin with. So that's only made it worse, only made it unaffordable to the point where people are like, don't even know what to do.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, and it's crookeder than a mountain road too. I mean, the whole thing is wired end to end with Democratic interest groups and health insurance companies that own the middlemen, whether they're PBMs or anything. I mean, the whole thing is just, it's a broken damn system. Republicans came up with an alternative that we're gonna talk about more in another show that I think is definitely worth examining, but that's where we're at with healthcare. Meanwhile, somewhere in, and we can tell you exactly what this looks like because we've lived in these rooms, in some like conference room in the Rayburn Building or in the Hart Building, there are a group of like 25 year old, bespectacled.

Like privileged left wing coastal elites that are sitting around because daddy got an internship where they've stuck around and now they're part of the system. They're so smart and they've got everything to say about this stuff. They're thinking about the messaging. How do we message all this? Because affordability. If we hit him on this, we can end the Trump presidency. Well, I've got an idea. Let's put out a graphic. Here's graphic one.

What they're doing here is the Senate Majority PAC is the chief super PAC in charge of Senate Democrat reelection and election prospects. What they're doing is, and this is as it reads for our audio only listeners, let's be honest for a second. Republicans don't care about the price of beef because they don't answer to working Americans. And then they put a graphic of the price of beef. What you'll notice, unless you are blind, I'm sorry, smug. That was a slight.

[Steve Schmidt]

Even I can see.

[Michael Duncan]

Very, very ableist of you, Josh, is.

[Josh Holmes]

Is that the price of beef skyrocketed in the four years that Joe Biden was President of the United States. There is basically nothing on the graph associated with Donald Trump's tenure at this point. This is the kind of shit that we're dealing with. They can't even read their own. This is their own propaganda. They can't even get that. Right. Like, they don't have an argument. They're just counting on blind partisan echo chamber shit that they can force into the mainstream where people have an argument because they don't like Donald Trump. Because they don't have an argument.

[John Ashbrook]

Right. And which I think is just underscores the importance of telling the actual story that led up to this situation, because you're not going to get that in a newspaper. The newspaper is going to write it the way that Democrats want it written. I do not remember the New York Times breathlessly covering insurance premium hikes every single October over the last few years. They're only talking about it now that Democrats want a talking point. Literally, they're working in tandem, as they have always done. And so if you do not go back and look at the history that created the situation that we're in right now, you are doing yourself a disorder.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, and that's what they would do to us. Right. I mean, like, how many times did Barack Obama sit there on stage or in an interview or on a town hall and say, we inherited the worst mess since the Great Depression?

[John Ashbrook]

Every time.

[Michael Duncan]

And how many times did Joe Biden say the same thing coming out of COVID Every time. I mean, you can only look at the situation we're in today in the context of $7 trillion being pumped in the American economy by something called the Inflation Reduction act that didn't reduce inflation, and that was passed by Joe Biden when he was president, United States. And Republicans have, too often, because they're often hired as the people to fix the economy, shy away from that.

[John Ashbrook]

Yep.

[Michael Duncan]

That fact. And, like, you just can't. Because the American electorate has a recency bias. It's always, what have you done for me lately?

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

Right. And that's why a lot of the stuff the Democrats have been so successful with over many years in that they can just lay everything at the feet of the people who are in charge today. And so it's incumbent on Republicans and Donald Trump to get on the same page here with how we message and talk about affordability.

[Josh Holmes]

And they got to fight this thing to the hilt. I'll be honest. Like, if there's one area where you're going to break your pick, this is it. This is midterm elections are almost always about the economy. And the idea that you're going to allow A bunch of Democrats who systematically ruined health care and the pocketbooks of most Americans to frame a debate about affordability. I mean, if you're gonna do that.

Give it all away, give it all away. And the answer is never socialism. Like, I love some of these ideas that come out of here. They're like, oh well, what we need to do is take taxpayer money and then we need to buy a bunch of houses and give these 30 year ARM mortgages or 50 year mortgages or whatever the fuck it is that they come up with. And they're like, oh yeah, no, that's the way to affordability. No, you're just doing what Democrats do, you're just trying to rebrand it in some ways, like what you've done with the tax rate. I wish the tax rates were a lot lower than they were. I think they had an opportunity with the big beauty to bring those fuckers down a lot further than they did. But this is where they landed. I'm happy that they landed somewhere. It's certainly better than the alternative. And where it is gives businesses and people a chance to plan. And when you give businesses and people a chance to plan, you give people economic growth prospects, wage increases, business planning allows for investment, things that are happening now under the economy. That by the way, when you have an investment, it's not like you just say investment in a fucking factory appears next door. You know what I mean?

[John Ashbrook]

Press the Internet button.

[Michael Duncan]

Just press it.

[Josh Holmes]

It takes like five years to build the thing and get it filled and get this stuff going. It takes a while to get that stuff happening. But when it starts happening, you see the dividends and Donald Trump talks a lot about tariffs. I understand it's an incredibly divisive issue, even within Republican confines, where we're talking about the deals that he's doing overseas. Well, some of the deals that he's done have come to fruition. And if these deals continue to come to fruition, you're gonna see a better deal for the American worker. I'm not a huge fan of tariffs, even as leverage. Like I just don't think it's like the greatest tool. But like what he did with the ag community this week is a pretty good example. So he's tariffing the hell out of people who buy agricultural goods. They stop buying a lot of agricultural goods as a result of that, cuz it's too expensive. But the things that they do buy is tariff the hell out of it. You got a pot of money. They use the pot of money to pay back the agriculture Community that is getting a loss of revenue because of the tariff in the first place. It's a net net zero. You can't like say that there is a economic impact. The government's in the middle of it, which is, I don't like. That's why I'm not a fan of this whole thing. And I don't think it's sustainable over time because I think a market actually is better made. I mean, turns out that's like the core of our economy. I think it's better made to deal with that kind of thing. But that's not like blaming those things for what's happening is an insane thing, particularly from a bunch of people who champion tariffs for the last 25 years. Democrats.

[John Ashbrook]

Right, Right.

[Josh Holmes]

You know what I mean? Like each one of these things is.

[John Ashbrook]

A lie and ruined our economy systematically. Starting with Obama, I mean we just talked about it. But starting with Obamacare and then under during the Biden era. I don't think everybody even understands how much damage they did to this country.

[Steve Schmidt]

Can we get graphic to it real quick? Even if you're blind like me, this makes it a lot clearer. When we were just talking about ground beef prices, we thought it would be important to highlight here so you can actually see when you've got Obama and Biden, that's when you've seen movement on that graph. And for Democrats basically to try to blame Trump and throw Trump under the bus for this while they, this is their same playbook. They try to take power again. They try to pass their stupid shit like Obama did and it drives costs up.

[Josh Holmes]

Their economic vision doesn't work.

[John Ashbrook]

No, that's the bottom line.

[Josh Holmes]

It's created problems time after time. So we're gonna give you the truth about where things actually sit. Because even in their shitty cherry picked graphs that don't say what they think that they say, they're single commodities in single places. We're gonna give you a better overview of where all of that is and what Donald Trump was talking about this week. When we come back.

[John Ashbrook]

America's demand for energy is rising rapidly and at a time when American families can least afford an energy shortage. But for decades, critical energy projects have been blocked, limiting our access to reliable, affordable American energy and putting America's energy dominance at risk. The solution is obvious. Overhaul the broken energy permitting process, make it faster and simpler. Innovation, a strong workforce, abundant oil and gas. We have it all right here in the usa. Let's put America first and political agendas last. We can power our own country, create thousands of Good paying American jobs and unleash American energy to be bigger and better than ever before. Because when America builds, America wins. Read API's plan to secure America's future at permittingreformnow.org paid for by the American Petroleum Institute.

[Josh Holmes]

Why was the government shut down? Because big insurance greed knows no limits. The same insurance companies pocketing billions in profits were demanding billions more in taxpayer funded subsidies again putting millions of families at risk. Shutting down our government now unless they get their billions, the big insurance companies are threatening to raise your premiums even more. Putting greed and profit before patients. Time to hold them accountable.

[Michael Duncan]

Paid for by Americans for Open Government.

[Josh Holmes]

Okay, so where is the economy now in real terms in terms of what you care about? Gas prices? Most people have to deal with that kind of thing. Clip for look at this, a fresh four and a half year low, three.

[Mike Rogers]

And a half year low of 295.

[Josh Holmes]

A gallon as of today. That is miles away from the all.

[John Ashbrook]

All time high set back in 2022 under former President Biden.

[Steve Schmidt]

That's crazy that they put it that way. You would never expect CNN to say that.

[Josh Holmes]

How about that? It's almost like Harry Antman, they got multiple Harry's going on over there.

[Michael Duncan]

They're giving everyone the sodium pentathol over there.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, right.

[Josh Holmes]

Inflation, which we mentioned last segment averaged 2.7% so far. And Trump's second term averaged 5% under Biden and peaked at 9.1%.

[Steve Schmidt]

I mean think about the difference there. You're talking about at worst, Trump's inflation under Trump is half of what Biden had. At best it's a third. Like that Is that story first off, the White House, they're going to be rolling out and telling this story because it's important for Americans to realize the bleeding has stopped. But that's the tricky thing with inflation is because it's never like, oh well, you know, I took the prices back to 1900, you can now buy a car for, you know, $3. But under Biden, you saw this endless growth of inflation, prices skyrocketing. So the Trump administration has stopped the bleeding. And now the fact that we have this is another important statistic. Real wage growth is 4% under Trump's second term. Real wage growth is basically an indicator that wages for Americans are now outpacing inflation.

[Michael Duncan]

And that's the key component of this. Right. That's what really puts dollars in your pocket. Real dollars is when the wage growth is outpacing the inflation rate.

[Steve Schmidt]

And it was, they fell by 1.3% under Biden. So when you felt under Biden that you weren't able to keep up, when it felt like your wages were not keeping up with inflation, that's this metric and it's actually exceeding inflation. Under Trump, it was below with Biden, which is.

[Josh Holmes]

Just think about how dumb this debate is. I mean, you're telling me that real wage growth so far under Trump's second term is 4%. And you're telling me the entire term under Biden, wages fell by a percent and a half? Just under a percent.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

With higher inflation. So you feel poorer on both sides of the equation. Right, because things are more, things are.

[Josh Holmes]

More expensive and your wages are less.

[Michael Duncan]

Right.

[Josh Holmes]

And these guys show up with an affordability debate.

[Michael Duncan]

It's bizarre.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, it's like getting caught in a whorehouse and being like, oh, abstinence only, folks. I mean, are you kidding me? Like, what in the. I can't believe we have to have the conversation. We have. And the worst part is you get the process driven Media in Washington D.C. democrats really think they are onto something. They've tapped into a bunch of Americans who are concerned about their pocketbook. They're always concerned about their pocketbook. Everyone's concerned about their fucking, fucking pocketbook. The question is, what's the real story about why their pocketbook looks the way it does? Is it somebody whose wages felt 1.3% under Biden while you had 9.1% inflation? I mean, dude, look, I don't want to get it big into math here, but that's a 10 plus percent change in terms of what you're coming in and going out on. Things like groceries and rent and kids and all this shit. 10% difference than what you experienced under Joe Biden. And now we have an affordability crisis, right?

[Steve Schmidt]

So to make this more pronounced for those folks who want something visual, I'm blind, so it's not great for me. But can we get graphic 3? This illustrates it perfectly. So the line there you're seeing that's depressed is the real wages, right? And then you're seeing prices skyrocket. That difference, that gap in between them, that's the economic pain. That's why you had an actual affordability crisis under Biden when all the Green New Deal and everything that they're pushing the Inflation Reduction act, which was essentially as much inflation as possible that pushed prices up. That's why the economy was tanking and so terrible under Biden.

[John Ashbrook]

And if you remember just one year ago, every single Democrat, including the top of their ticket, Kamala Harris said there's nothing wrong with prices. That's a figment of your imagination. We need to continue the Biden administration with Kamala Harris.

[Josh Holmes]

It wouldn't change a thing.

[John Ashbrook]

Wouldn't change a thing.

[Steve Schmidt]

Yeah, she said that.

[John Ashbrook]

And here we are a year later after they lied to you. And they expect us to believe that they have the solution. They ruined it. They expect us to forget something that they were saying they were preaching just one year ago and vote for them again. It's insanity, dude. I also absolute insane.

[Josh Holmes]

I just, I don't know how to qualify for everyone who's not like macro economic. I'm not. Right. I don't do macro. Smug is the closest we have in this panel who understands all of this. But a 10% change in wages versus inflation over a period of four years under Biden in the one year that we've been under Trump, changing the American economy in that scale is remarkable. It's a remarkable change.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, it is. And I mean, I think we're going to see the full benefits. And we've talked to numerous people here on the show about it who are intimately involved in the passage of the big beautiful bill. But I think we're going to feel a lot of those economic impacts hopefully in Q2 of next year when people figure out what they are allowed to keep from the government and then businesses can, can do more of that planning that you were talking about.

[Josh Holmes]

It's a really important part because the main crux of the big beauty was extending the tax relief that was passed in 2017, which from a political standpoint is difficult because nobody ever experienced a tax like the Democrats wanted to put on you. They were, you're paying the same tax rate.

[Michael Duncan]

Right.

[Josh Holmes]

The difference is, and I think you heard Donald Trump speak about this this week, is that there's a very, very specific blue collar target here, whether it's no tax on tips, whether it's the Social Security tax breaks, overtime, whether it's overtime, whether it's mortgage interest deductions, all of those things come to fruition for the first time when you pay your taxes next April 15th. Right. So you'll feel that for a whole bunch of Americans that are gonna have that while you've got the infrastructure laid for economic growth with a stable tax rate going into next year that allows for economic growth and all the things that Democrats seem to hate. And I think the combination of the two is probably going to give a much better political argument. But you have to continue to beat the drum on this, which is why I Think all of us were pretty excited about Donald Trump hitting the main stage for the first time this week in a long time. Kind of nice to see him out there again. Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

And I mean, I think that's going to be helpful. We talked about how the big beauty is going to have its effects going into next year. Mortgage rates have gone down 12% so far under President Trump.

Late breaking news, the Fed just cut rates by another quarter point. So you should see mortgage rates go even further down and help make getting into the housing market more affordable for a lot of young folks, which is what we want to happen.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, I think it's important, you know, in the sales pitch of this thing, and ultimately that's what it is. This is a political question, is Republicans have to do a better job of talking about these sort of economic wins in real terms that impact people's pocketbooks and their families and things like that. Like, it's one thing to say, you know, the mortgage interest deduction or mortgage rates, but being able to say, you know, we're going to help the next generation be able to afford. Getting a home, which will be your largest investment in your life, is being a homeowner, like, talking about it in those real terms, I think personalizes, in a way, for the electorate. And the reason why that's important is because, like, this whole affordability ruse of the Democrats, outside of just laying it at the feet of Donald Trump, which is fucking hilarious, is when they talk about affordability, like, you know, you look at the mayoral race in New York and Mamdani, the way that they spin it now is he won on this affordability thing. His idea of affordability is government grocery stores and free bus rides. You know, that's what it is. And it's like, that ain't what we're talking about, but he's talking about stuff in a real terms way that we have to talk. And if that's the only way to.

[Josh Holmes]

Win in its perspective, I mean, the great challenge for every president of the United States and their party if they're in power, is to discuss things not as this is the best thing ever now, because no one has ever voted for now. Like, the way that you look at the economy, the economy's never great in terms of your own. It could be going great, but it could be better. I mean, that's just human mentality, a voter's mentality. The way that you look at it is there's always more opportunities, always something else that could happen. You have to look at it perspectively. So There's a challenge from every president, not just this one who does like to sell now is that you have to give people a reason to believe things are getting better. And everything that we just went through are those reasons you have. It's. You're not making it up. The data is all there. Everything would point you in a direction to show that provided that they continue to make deals on the tariff front, provided that these. All of these pieces come to fruition, you don't have some economic catastrophe in some sector that is increasingly prob. AI or something else. All of those things point upwards. But they have to sell the future. You can't sell the now.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah. And it's actually one of the reasons why I'm really glad that he is going out on this barnstorming tour around the country, because the guy's very good at talking. I think he's also a very good listener. And I think that in 2024, he got better as the year went on because he was spending more time with regular people out at these rallies.

[Josh Holmes]

I agree with you.

[John Ashbrook]

And he was hearing from them.

[Steve Schmidt]

Albina McDonald.

[John Ashbrook]

Exactly. He was hearing from them what it was that they were concerned about. And he's like, oh, okay, yeah, no, that makes sense. I thought that. But now that I hear you say it, this is something that is a big priority. And I think the more he's out there and the less he's in Washington, I love the people who are around him. He's got very smart people around him. But everybody who's around him who works in Washington is part of Washington. The more time he spends with regular people, I think the better off we're all gonna be.

[Michael Duncan]

You know, this from Donald Trump himself. He said times is like holding the rallies is his focus group.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

Like, that's how he tests, message tests to the electorate.

[John Ashbrook]

Yep.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. And he sees what people respond to.

[Michael Duncan]

Right.

[Josh Holmes]

But I mean, look, there's always a tendency, and I mean, it just goes back to like Bill Clinton, feel your pain type thing, is that the anxieties that underlie an electorate almost always are economic in nature. And you need to understand those even while you know that you laid an infrastructure that's going to help with that. And, you know, so there's a tendency to go out there and be like, look, we've done. We've done everything we need to do. We're in great shape. Especially in comparison to my predecessor, who is an abject fucking failure on all of these things. And that's not what people need to hear. What they need to hear is now it's coming together. We're turning this ship and we're building and we're doing well. And I think this is the beginning of that. You can see when we had Scalise in talking about that, what you're gonna hear in our interview with Mike Rogers today, very similar in terms of forward looking, change message, economic opportunity stuff that you can kind of put your teeth into. That's where Republicans need to be. And if they can continue to do that, it would be in great shape. So listen, question of the day for all of you. Every political professional in Washington, D.C. has a different idea of what economic stat is going to be most impactful in terms of the elections. It's consumer confidence. You hear people say it's wage growth. You hear people say inflation's obvious, gdp. You hear some people say that's our question of the day for all of you.

[Steve Schmidt]

Is it mortgage rates? Is it like, what is the number you're looking at?

[Michael Duncan]

Unemployment rate? There's a number of those.

[Josh Holmes]

Is that economic stat that would be most helpful for the midterms when you like and subscribe to the ruthless Friday program? Read all of them. And this one, look, it's a little more serious than we typically do in the questions, but we're actually very interested. We read every single one. We'll get back to you the very next episode on Funtime Friday between yucks. Yeah, we'll talk about that between yucks.

Anyway, just remember we're gonna do two Q and A episodes here at the end of the year where we're gonna ask and answer all of your questions that you put on that very same thing when you like and subscribe. So throw them in there. You've already started doing it.

[Steve Schmidt]

Yeah. Love to see it.

[Josh Holmes]

Love to see it. It's fantastic stuff. Continue to do that. And we're gonna get back to you throughout the Christmas break on all of that. And when we come back, we're gonna have your answers to the previous question of the day about Jasmine Crockett, the topic she's been this week, right after this.

[John Ashbrook]

Only 58% of Americans today say they're proud to be American, the lowest number ever recorded. That's not just sad, it is very dangerous. Because if we forget what makes America special, we risk losing it. That's why Americans for Prosperity is launching the One Small Step Campaign, a bold nationwide initiative to reconnect Americans with our founding principles that sparked unparalleled innovation and prosperity. It's not just a celebration, it's A call to action. Through the 250,000 Steps for Freedom challenge, AFP is partnering with the grassroots in all 50 states to take meaningful steps that defend freedom and advance opportunity. Call your representative, attend a local event, knock on a door, talk to your neighbors. Every single step counts. And every step moves us closer to a more perfect Union. Go to takeonesmallstep.com to learn more. Then join the challenge at afpvolunteer.com.

[Mike Rogers]

When.

[Josh Holmes]

You like and subscribe to the Ruthless Friday program and leave a comment on our question of the day. We read all of them. Get back to the very next episode. Our question from last episode is, what will Jasmine Crockett's campaign slogan be? Your responses were fantastic. To get back to you, we always start with a voice.

[John Ashbrook]

First one comes from Shiloh's mom. Shiloh's mom writes, jasmine just mean Crockett, a relative of Davey, has a fight in her DNA. You don't have to be right to fight. Just badder than everybody else. Queen of the wild frontiers.

Jasmine Crockett, born on a mountaintop of big money.

[Josh Holmes]

I love that.

[John Ashbrook]

That's a great, such a great comment, Shiloh's mom. Thank you very much for that.

[Josh Holmes]

What do we got? Dunks.

[Michael Duncan]

This is from Michael McCready. Michael has a couple of options here. Number one, Jasmine Crockett, 2026. Turning innocent donors into breaking news since 2024.

[Steve Schmidt]

Amazing.

[Michael Duncan]

Number two here, vote Jasmine. Because accuracy is overrated and confidence is free.

[Josh Holmes]

That's a good observation.

[Michael Duncan]

Number three, Crockett, 2026. If there's an Epstein out there, she'll find the wrong one.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, that's so good.

[John Ashbrook]

Funny, smug.

[Josh Holmes]

What else?

[Steve Schmidt]

Comment 3 from Tyler Williams. Tyler writes, after hundreds of thousands of dollars researching and focus grouping campaign slogans, Jasmine arrives at Crockett. Motherfucker.

[Josh Holmes]

That's pretty good. I feel like that's her best stuff. We come back, our signature games here in the variety program King of the Hill right after this.

Okay. King of the Hill. I think I'm a competitor this week. I'm gonna bring the fat man, Steve Schmidt.

[Steve Schmidt]

And I've got the reigning champion, Ron Filipowski.

[Josh Holmes]

It's gonna be a battle. And this is the old school. This is the throwback.

[Mike Rogers]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Cause I'm Judge Duncan's the judge.

[Michael Duncan]

The original formulation of this great game.

[Josh Holmes]

The original formulation. Here we go.

[Michael Duncan]

Let's go ringside.

[John Ashbrook]

Ladies and gentlemen, your attention please. It's time for King of the Hill. In the red corner, fighting out of Utah, the old fat man.

[Steve Schmidt]

There we are Steve Schmitz.

[John Ashbrook]

And now, in the blue corner, fighting from who knows where, and current champion of the world, Ron Philippa.

[Josh Holmes]

Philippa.

[John Ashbrook]

How do you say his name anyhow?

[Josh Holmes]

Philipowski.

I almost want to play Steve for every game just so I can get that.

[Steve Schmidt]

Yeah, the old fat man is poetry. I'm gonna. I'm gonna try to do a two round knockout, I think. Wow. Ron's got some good stuff.

[Josh Holmes]

You're not gonna be able to.

[Steve Schmidt]

I think. So. Can I get Exhibit 6? This is great because it's a throwback to what Democrats tried with J.D. vance. This is Ron. He's retweeting or he's quote, tweeting a screenshot of Pete Hagseth's tweet where Pete Hegseth says the department of War will never, ever back down. America first. Peace through strength. Common sense for the warrior. Always his response to this is the whole cabinet is a bunch of fucking weirdos. The most like common sense. Literally, it says common sense, right? And he's like, how weird is that?

[John Ashbrook]

That's insane.

[Josh Holmes]

I'm gonna stay. I want to. I had many options, so I'm gonna stay on genre.

[Michael Duncan]

Okay.

[Steve Schmidt]

I love that.

[Josh Holmes]

I'm gonna go with exhibit 14, please. Fellas.

Here'S your opportunity to call Pete Hegseth out for what he is. Secretary of War crimes, The latest collection unveiled in the Warning store. Click here to check it out. And he's got. He's selling fucking T shirts. If you go to steveschmitt.com and go to the Warning store, he'll give you a T shirt that you can purchase and send right to his filthy pockets.

[Steve Schmidt]

Incredible.

[Josh Holmes]

That say he's the secretary of war crimes. This is fantastic, particularly in the back. And this week it also was noted that he's back in the super PAC game. And he's raising money from unsuspecting liberal donors to try to take out House Republicans. This man, he is relentless. But selling T shirts from the.

Secretary of War crimes from his own website store is as good as it gets.

[Mike Rogers]

Can I.

[John Ashbrook]

What's the website again? The Warning game.

[Josh Holmes]

The Warning. The Warning with. So his podcast is called the Warning.

[John Ashbrook]

Oh, he's warning people.

[Josh Holmes]

And it's the warningwithsteveschmidt.com collections.

[John Ashbrook]

Okay.

[Josh Holmes]

And at that point, you can get it.

[Steve Schmidt]

It's been like 10 minutes so far explaining this dumb fucking tweet.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, you just have to click here to check.

[Steve Schmidt]

Ron Filipowski. Short and sweet.

[Michael Duncan]

I think trying to be like, these guys are weirdos.

[Josh Holmes]

I think you're done though.

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

I think the background that Steve is back in the game with a new Democratic super pac and the fact that he's selling merch, but he's selling it through his sub stack or podcast, I think those two things in concert ultimately tipped the balance here. Round one, the Holmes.

[Josh Holmes]

Thank you, judge. I appreciate that. I'm gonna go for a two round knockout here because I got some high heat.

[John Ashbrook]

Wow.

[Josh Holmes]

Ashbrook and I were lucky enough to attend the Kennedy center honors on Sunday of which we were able to enjoy the honoring of Sylvester Stallone, a personal hero for a lot of us. Obviously the hero Rocky, which launched his career, became synonymous.

[John Ashbrook]

Success, American icon.

[Josh Holmes]

American icon.

[John Ashbrook]

Objective had the full trunk, the American.

[Josh Holmes]

Flag, trunks taken on everybody. This is Steve's reaction to him being honored by President Trump at the Kennedy. Senator of Honors. Exhibit nine, please.

It's important for the kids out there to remember that the better man won the fight 50 years ago.

[Steve Schmidt]

Wow. He took the side of a ball.

[Josh Holmes]

If you know the story of Rocky, you know that Rocky won.

Nothing. In what? He got beat by Apollo Creed on a decision, but him standing. The whole story was about him staying in the fight. Right. The most inspirational tale of all time. He posts a side by side picture with Rocky Balboa and Apollo Creed. Rocky in the picture of the Kennedy center honors and Apollo Creed and saying that the better man won 50 years ago. Of course, number one, Rocky one, released 50 years ago.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Mike Rogers]

Oh, really?

[Steve Schmidt]

As ridiculous as it is to take the side of Apollo Creed, I think in Exhibit 4 we see someone taking the side of someone far worse. The cartels. Ron Filipowski says the US government is summarily executing people on a weekly basis without telling the American people any of their names or presenting any proof of their guilt for alleged crimes that do not carry the death penalty in the U.S. will someone please think of the narco terrorists? Short and sweet.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, look, I like that, but the idea that you root against Rocky because he was honored by Donald Trump, I think is like.

[Steve Schmidt]

Or root more than narco terrorist because Trump is killing.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, I mean, yeah, that ultimately is the conundrum here is like, which is more offensive. It is funny. And it's been said often that like liberals, entire understanding of politics is through the consumption of fiction. Like none of them actually know anything. It's all about like a Harry Potter movie or fucking Handmaid's Tale or West Wing. And now apparently Apollo Creed deserved to win, not Rocky, which I find very funny.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, rooting against Rocky is something.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, it's something.

[Josh Holmes]

It's something that Steve, like, 10 years ago would have been like, rocky Balbo is synonymous with American dream.

[Michael Duncan]

I understand that, but like.

[Josh Holmes]

And then Donald Trump says, yeah, but.

[Michael Duncan]

At the same time, for the man.

[Josh Holmes]

It'S like, no, Apollo 3 was the hero.

[Michael Duncan]

Look, I get it.

[Josh Holmes]

You can't ignore that.

[Michael Duncan]

But like, Ron Filipowski certainly has seen the, the, the videos of these cigarette boats unloading bales of cocaine into the ocean. Like that is a thing like that, that we've seen. We've seen all of these videos released, and he's still cheering for them. And for that reason, smug wins round two.

[Josh Holmes]

That, ladies and gentlemen, is highway robbery.

[Michael Duncan]

Hey, bailiff, do you want to enforce the court at all? I mean, like, we've got. We have, We. We have a participant in this court.

[Steve Schmidt]

He's taking over the court control.

[Josh Holmes]

I have seen judges come to a conclusion without evidence before, but this, I'm.

[Steve Schmidt]

Gonna just win this right here.

[Michael Duncan]

Wow. Good luck in round three.

[Josh Holmes]

I don't care. I'm playing under press. Rudy. Rudy against Rocky because Trump likes him. Rocky.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, it's fiction. The narco terrorists are real.

[Steve Schmidt]

I'm winning it here. Exhibit one. Ron Filipowski released a Second Strike video. All caps, exclamation point.

[Josh Holmes]

That's literally what every Democrat in Congress is saying. There's nothing harebrained about it.

[Michael Duncan]

Okay, what's your play, Holmes?

[Josh Holmes]

Okay, well, I'm gonna make the game a part of the game. I'm gonna go to exhibit.

[Michael Duncan]

This is cinema.

[Josh Holmes]

I'm gonna go to exhibit. 12th.

I sat down with former Congressman Walsh Freedom. Oh, wow. To discuss the Walsh promise. This is, of course, smoking Joe Walsh, Brandon.

[John Ashbrook]

A branded thing.

[Josh Holmes]

The Walsh promise, as well as the need for a large. A large coalition is possible to remove MAGA from power and then links to his substack.

[Michael Duncan]

Damn.

[Steve Schmidt]

It's over. I won so hard. Release the Second Strike video, Dude.

[Josh Holmes]

So, dude, he sat down with Joe Walsh as if it was a serious thing. Talking about. No, I'm not kidding you. Steve Schmidt at one point was one of the most formidable and serious people in politics. This man is sitting down with somebody who could be in a mental institution and branding his. Whatever he's doing.

[Michael Duncan]

The bailiff continues to do no promise. Like, it's like, that's a thing.

[John Ashbrook]

Like, it's 54, 40. Or fight.

[Michael Duncan]

Can the judge talk in the courtroom, please? Is that allowed?

[Josh Holmes]

I'm not sure.

[John Ashbrook]

Wow.

[Michael Duncan]

You know what? Actually, it strikes. Strikes me in all of the stuff here from Steve Schmidt and bringing in Smokin Joe Walsh. What I really appreciate about it is how all of these never Trump guys seem to have nine lives. And every year they come back with some new branded thing. Now, Steve Schmidt has this thing called the Warning, and then he also has this new super pac, which I assume is not the Lincoln Project. No, it's different. Which is now a new super pac. And then Joe Walsh also has another thing called the Promise. When the fuck did that get started? It's like every year they roll out.

[Josh Holmes]

A new thing as long as there is a funding mechanism.

[Michael Duncan]

And like the other thing I loved about that tweet, Holmes, and you don't deserve to win because you were an asshole in this court. You're an asshole in this court. And so, you know, I mean, I. I wanted. I want to dismiss your case with prejudice, but I can't deny the fact that, like, in the tweet. It's not even a tweet. It's on Blue Sky. But, like, the tagging. Even the tagging of their handles on Blue Sky. Can we put it back up?

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

It's at walsh freedom bluesky.social to discuss quote. The Walsh promise. What the fuck is the Walsh Promise?

[Josh Holmes]

There's nothing but acronyms.

[Michael Duncan]

It's just all tags and acronyms and bullshit. And just that offends me to my core. And I think it's an abuse of the Internet. And for that reason, you win reluctantly.

[Steve Schmidt]

You win.

[Josh Holmes]

I have always said this judge.

Right on their smart. It is a whip.

[Michael Duncan]

I don't believe that.

[Josh Holmes]

And I thank them for their jurisprudence. Can I give you one more? Dude, just because the one that I didn't play. Okay, but because I wanted to stay in genre because the bale is still asleep.

[John Ashbrook]

I'm the judge next time.

[Josh Holmes]

Can I bring up Exhibit 8?

Scott Jennings is a Nazi who shills for.

[Mike Rogers]

Are you kidding me?

[Michael Duncan]

Why didn't you play that in round one?

[John Ashbrook]

Scott Jennings is a dude Nazi. What in the world is he thinking? Dude, he's gone off the rails.

[Josh Holmes]

I don't know, but they worked together.

[Michael Duncan]

Can we put.

[Josh Holmes]

Can we work right?

[Michael Duncan]

Can we put it back?

[John Ashbrook]

He was just another guy in the office.

[Michael Duncan]

Are you kidding me? Okay, okay, here's another.

[Steve Schmidt]

What's going on here?

[Michael Duncan]

Another.

[Steve Schmidt]

Another.

[Josh Holmes]

That's the best part.

[John Ashbrook]

Another.

[Josh Holmes]

Work together.

[Michael Duncan]

Here's what I think is the best part in this insane. I feel bad for the freelance graphic designer that Steve Schmidt found off Fiverr, but I don't. I really do not recommend white text on a white gradient background. You can't even fucking read what the graphic says.

[Steve Schmidt]

Steve.

[Michael Duncan]

Steve. Get a new graphic designer, pal.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, you're gonna have to pay for that. And that's not gonna build any steamboat chalets.

[Michael Duncan]

It's not generational wealth.

[John Ashbrook]

Scott Jennings is the nut. Dude, that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.

[Josh Holmes]

It's something else, isn't it?

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. So I had a lot to work with. There was more. I just. That was the one that I felt compelled.

All right, so we have a great interview in front of you. He is a senate candidate from the great state of Michigan, which very well could control the United States Senate. And this. I really mean it. It's been a long time since we've won a senate race in Michigan, but as you will hear, we're well positioned to do so this time. And it might very well come down to this. He's a great candidate. Mike Rogers.

I want to welcome to the program a guy who is about to make all of our hopes and dreams come true in the great state of Michigan, running for Senate with some success here for the first time since Spence Abraham, I believe is going to happen next year. Mike Rogers. How are you, sir?

[Mike Rogers]

I am doing great. Thanks for having me. And you are right.

[Josh Holmes]

Yes.

[Mike Rogers]

That's some 30 years in the making. It is 30 years putting a Republican back in the state of Michigan, which is crazy because we're a 50. 50 state even at best. And we haven't been able to kind of square that circle. Yeah, we've worn since 1994.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, we've worn a fair amount of that over the years. It's always one of those states that is close enough where you should win and something happens at the end, and we're just sort of come up a touch short. But I am absolutely convinced that this time around is going to be different. We know you as a candidate. Known you for a while, but it seems to me like the stars are aligning. Your campaign looks strong. You've got what appears to be unanimous support within the party to get this thing done.

[Mike Rogers]

Yeah, it is. It's a different day. And my wife and I were talking not that long ago if we had lost by three points in 24. Been pretty easy to say. You know, we got our fannies kicked. Time to move on. But 3, 10 of 1%, I mean, it's so close. Oh, my God. That's when we said we can't, you know, oh, my God, we got to do this again. We lost by 232 votes per county. Yeah, that's Wild, but who's counting?

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Mike Rogers]

I mean, my God. I mean, it's such a small number. And just, you know, 9,000 people could have flipped this. This race.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, for sure. And, you know, the next campaign compounds on the effort, obviously, that you had in the first one. You got the. To know a whole bunch of people you didn't know before. And now you're getting to know people you didn't meet last time.

[Mike Rogers]

Exactly. And, you know, we shored up some places. You know, the Michigan party had been fractured for years. We experienced a little bit of that in the last election. We were doing our best to kind of bail it, bail it together. It's so much different this time. So people saw that we could win. They got to know who we are, that all. That part has come in together. We have people who were still giving us the stink eye after the primary who are now on board. Part of the team, part of our team captains. Huge difference. And I think that's going to be the difference. It's a difference we need, but it's also the difference that will make.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Mike Rogers]

Make us win on next November. Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

It's a unique opportunity, too. An open seat. Turns out Democrats are having a little issues with the primary.

[Mike Rogers]

Oh, I'm sad for them.

[Michael Duncan]

It's our priority.

[Mike Rogers]

I've been through it, but it's really hard. It makes me tear up with. Well, maybe joy, but also maybe that I'm feeling bad for them. But, you know, couldn't happen to a finer bunch of people. It couldn't.

[Josh Holmes]

It seems like they've got an awful lot of. I mean, it's broken out in the Open in D.C. but it's happening in states all over the place. We just talked about it last episode, about a real lack of consensus within the Democratic Party about what constitutes a kind of candidate. They can hold their banner these days. And I think some of the consequences you can see spilling out in Michigan, where you've got these radical sense of ideas that are trying to knit together and different candidates, they seem to be on a very different page. Meanwhile, you're sort of driving the very consistent message that you drove last time around, except adding pieces to it. The economy and all of the global events that have been happening here on the last year.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Mike Rogers]

No, and it's. It's. And you're exactly right. In their primary, it is every. Everything that made them lose before they. They're all doubling down.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, it's like a race to find.

[Mike Rogers]

It is. I'm 1:1 in this. By his own Words wants to Mandani Michigan.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Mike Rogers]

Right. Okay.

[Josh Holmes]

So that's a hell of a bumper sticker. Yeah.

[Steve Schmidt]

Yeah.

[Mike Rogers]

We can't wait to print it for, you know, we have another one who believes that the California EV mandates, which would eliminate, you know, people who make gas engines, voted in support of that, should be great. And, and, and then the last one.

[Josh Holmes]

Good thing doesn't have anything to do with cars.

[Mike Rogers]

Right, right.

[Steve Schmidt]

Exactly.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Mike Rogers]

At all. And then the last one is kind of the leading the charge on putting men in women's sports and women's locker rooms.

[Josh Holmes]

Right.

[Mike Rogers]

All three of them.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, it's unbelievable.

[Mike Rogers]

Again, I, you know, I keep poking myself is this, this can't be right. Right. There's got to be one sensible. Nope. They're not sensible.

[Michael Duncan]

No.

[Mike Rogers]

And, and they're so out of line. You know what? People forget about Michigan, even when we were considered a blue state where people were saying you can't win or write it off. It's a working class state. We build things. People work for a living. They're proud of that. That work ethic is second to none. And so when you get these folks who literally one came from California, one, I think the last stop was Chicago, they're coming into the state and bringing east and west coast Democrat craziness to the state. I think what they're going to find out here pretty quickly is Michiganders don't appreciate that.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah. It sounds like their priorities are way out of whack. And I know that you're all over the state talking to a lot of different people. I'm wondering what you're hearing about most. Is it affordability? Is it safety? What? I mean, maybe it's both of them at the same time.

[Mike Rogers]

Yeah. And it is a little bit of both of those. But, you know, we've. The Democrats have been charged. This is what I think people also don't understand about our state this cycle. This is a change election for Michigan.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Mike Rogers]

Which is very different than most people who are saying, you know, we're trying to defend something. We're not defending anything. The Democrats have been in the Senate for 32 years. They, you know, two of them think in the same way, talking the same way and voting the same way. And the Democrats have been in charge of Lansing for the last 10 years. And what happened, 30,000 manufacturing jobs lost. The fact that we used to be a part of the defense industrial base, building everything from ships to submarine components that used to have an air base, all that's gone. Right. That's what we get, when you put Democrats in charge, we used to have top 10 education in the country. We're 44th in the country. And so what we're talking about is things like what is the opportunity? A lot of people are worried. You know, there's the. In the north, they're skewing a little older. They're worried about their kids walking in or grandkids and saying, can't stay, gotta go when there's no opportunity. So we're talking about affordability. It is an issue. But if you look at the policies that came out of Lansing and then the last four years of the Democrats supported by all three of the folks in the Democrat primary, it's been horrendous for people trying to afford, you know, their weekly meals or their daily meals and their weekly budgets. But it. And they sense that something's got to change. And so what are the changing? We're going to change for the first time in 32 years, we're going to put a Republican in. Who, by the way, is going to be able to work with a Republican governor and walk into a Republican president and say, this is what we need for the great state of Michigan. Can't do that. Why would we pass that opportunity up?

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

So for the people that don't really know your whole background and resume, you know, both in the House where you are in energy and Commerce, which is basically the committee of jurisdiction on damn near everything.

We certainly thought so. And your experience in the FBI, you know, how do we turn this around? And what sort of experience do you feel like you bring to the table at this moment?

[Mike Rogers]

You mean this as in America or this as in Michigan? Or maybe even both. Yeah, Michigan and both. So, I mean, I believe there's some certain things that we can do. Like a great example, and I talk about this on the campaign trail, there were five states that were listed to build part of the golden dome, which is the missile defense system for the United States. Michigan wasn't one of them. And I believe, and I tell people, and I passionately believe this, you send me the United States Senate, we'll be on the list. I will get us on the list. We're going to build things for that program. We have a burgeoning aerospace industry in Michigan. Same with the other defense industrial base. I mean, we used to have an air base, we used to have a sub tracking base, all gone. We used to build tanks. That doesn't happen in Michigan. We used to build those components. As I said, guess what? All of those things happen they just don't happen in Michigan anymore. And I argue it's because you haven't had a senator who is willing to use the leverage of the United States Senate to keep us in the game. I will get us back in the game, and we're going to start building things in Michigan again. And so I think that's one way that we can revitalize Michigan management.

[Josh Holmes]

That's what federal representation looks like. It's amazing. You know, we've gone through a couple of decades where I think a lot of people, particularly on the Democratic side, run for office to sell books and show up on talk shows and do whatever. But as evidenced by what you're talking about, the goal of the United States senators to try to figure out how to leverage federal resources to create jobs in your state and give your state the best opportunity to do that. It's been utterly lost on Democrats representing Michigan for as long as I can remember.

[Mike Rogers]

Well, think about where Midwest Democrats are. And the three Democrats in my primary, they're more concerned about New York and California than they are Michigan.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Mike Rogers]

I mean, and I'll tell you what, workers get this. They realize that Democrats have been walking down the south part of our state with their finger up while they're walking from New York to California. And think about the senator we just elected.

Missed the most important vote probably of her first part of her career because she wanted to be on television. Remember this?

[Steve Schmidt]

Yes.

[Mike Rogers]

Right. And now she just releases a video calling for insubordination with the US Military. I mean, it's shocking. And why? Because they're more concerned about the coasts than they are the state of Michigan. My argument to my folks back home is, let's put a Michigan guy in the United States Senate to worry about Michigan. And that's what I'm going to do. And I think there's so much good that comes with that that we can do. And as I say, it'd be great to have work with a Republican governor for a change, who, by the way, for 32 years hasn't been able to call a Republican senator to get something done. Guess what? This is our opportunity. Let's do it.

[Josh Holmes]

No, it's very well said. I mean, I think the challenge, obviously, in the midterms, particularly in some of these purple states that are highly targeted in presidential elections, is there a tendency to kind of take the eye off the ball in terms of the intensity of that? And I think what I hear you saying is the intensity is still there because nothing's changed in Michigan in terms of its representation. So people are still plugged in here and people are ready to go.

[Mike Rogers]

And the biggest trick is not to get sucked into this Democrats that they were the party of affordability.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, that's the wildest thing of all time.

[Mike Rogers]

My list. And they're blaming the Obamacare, the unaffordable Care act on Republicans. It is crazy. Now, the sad part, and I think in modern politics is if you say it enough, I guess people can believe it. So our challenge is to make sure they understand this was a gift given to you by Democrats. And the fact that they're out there saying, well, these premiums are outrageously high. Did you not hear the debate during the thing is, there was only one way these premiums were going under the Democrat plan, and that's up. And same with affordability. Now they're trying to say, oh, you don't care about people's cost of, you know, fill in the blank. 9% inflation under Biden that you supported gladly. I don't remember you even talking about the price of eggs a year ago.

[John Ashbrook]

Right. That didn't exist.

[Mike Rogers]

It didn't exist. Now it's all about, well, they're the only ones that care. I mean, this is such an onset.

[Josh Holmes]

It is really hard. I'm so glad to hear you say that because I think there's a tendency, particularly in any place that's nationalized at all to try to take dictation from the Democratic Party on this stuff. And all of a sudden affordability is a concern of Democrats up here. I thought I lost my damn mind in October and November as they're talking about affordability and Obamacare as a Republican problem. I mean, I don't know. That's like sunfish brain level recall over.

[Michael Duncan]

What we've been through completely.

[Josh Holmes]

But on the other side of that, we got to drive that home.

[Mike Rogers]

We have to say it. Yeah, right. So we talk when we talk about, you know, when we are engaged about premiums, I am very quick. And the good news is I was on the Energy and Commerce Committee trying to drive a free market approach to keeping your prices down and getting better care and keeping the government out of your pocket. We did not prevail. However, those free market principles are still there. So we talk about the fact this is what they gave you. It doesn't work. And by the way, if you recall, they wanted to charge union households a Cadillac tax.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, I remember it.

[Mike Rogers]

For a negotiated health care.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Mike Rogers]

Are you kidding me? In Michigan. And guess what? They all those guys, they looked at California, looked at New York. And they were giving thumbs up. So they gave a thumbs up too. They gave, they screwed the very people who probably put him in office at that time. I just, it was shocking to me. And of course, the whole Democrat thing was, well, we'll get rid of the Cadillac tax later. Which they ended up doing because Republicans took over for one reason and one reason alone, this Medicare. I'm looking forward to this fight.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Mike Rogers]

Because they're going to have to own this year being an albatross around their neck that they are causing this hundreds of percent increase in some cases in these premiums. And they have no answer. Their only answer is, we'll just give it more money. Yeah. And so you can't pick your doctor and you get bad service and you gotta get in line, you know, give more money for that.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, one of the things I really like about your candidacy is what you just demonstrated there is that you know what you're talking about. Like you've lived that these debates, you've understood what it is that, you know, it turns out that just subsidizing insurance companies doesn't give them the ability to lower your healthcare premiums.

[Mike Rogers]

In fact, they'll actually raise money. They'll raise money.

[Michael Duncan]

Right.

[Josh Holmes]

As they do year in and year out. But, you know, I think a lot of our folks out there are nervous about these debates. Right. I mean, they see polling, they see people concerned about the cost of health care. Of course they're concerned about it. But, you know, the reason you've got it is because you had a unanimous Democratic control that forced it down our throat. And now it's our opportunity to do something different and actually help people.

[Mike Rogers]

Yeah. I mean, I've been saying at home, if you don't want to cliff it, because I don't think that's fair to working families who had this ACA benefit given to them because Obamacare was failing to put it all on them. I say transition out, but let them know we're transitioning out. And then I love the idea of giving that money. So these people goes in their pocket, they manage the cost. You're not sending it to the insurance company. That's a winner all day long. And people will understand that. We just have to say it in unison. We got to get our kind of act together to be talking about it. Because I know a lot of people don't like to talk about this stuff and I get why, but I think it's really important for us to. I mean, I think it's really important because Our answer is winning, by the way. You had your chance. You gave us this monster.

And it's our time. We have a. But we have solutions. Right. That's the key. We have solutions and by the way, puts you in charge.

[John Ashbrook]

Right.

[Mike Rogers]

And, you know, transparency at hospitals and other things, all the things we've been calling for, for 20 years.

[Steve Schmidt]

No kidding.

[Mike Rogers]

This is our chance.

[Josh Holmes]

This is an opportunity to do that. Of course, you have a military background, military family, very proud Rogers household of all that. Also gives you unique perspective on both our national defense and our international affairs and that kind of thing. You know, a lot of people that run for Senate are, you know, they're just trying to learn this on the fly. You're a guy who's had a lot of experience in this.

[Mike Rogers]

Yeah. And I. It's a big part of my life. And, you know, we're very proud. My son is 4th generation Rogers family that served in the military. My wife actually, after 9, 11, was inspired, signed up, ended up serving in Iraq. Yeah. In our family, we say she's tougher than woodpecker lips.

She's tough. You don't want to mess with her. Trust me. You don't want to mess with her. She's. She's tough one. And her father served and was retired Air Force, you know, so it's. It's just kind of a thing in our family. So I was proud when my son decided to do. We don't push anyone into it. But my really proud moment was my daughter, who, by the way, was not cut out for the military, and that's okay. She decided she didn't want to be left out, so she joined AmeriCorps all in a row. She came home, told me one day I signed up for AmeriCorps. I'm not gonna let my brother be the only one doing it.

[Josh Holmes]

Service minded family.

[Mike Rogers]

Yeah, she was great. And so she went out and served, actually served on a military base helping young troops get connected to health services that they hadn't experienced in their life before. A lot of these guys. So she did her bit for America too. So we're pretty proud of that. And, you know, it doesn't disqualify you not having military service, but I do think having that perspective is really helpful.

[Josh Holmes]

Helpful in the Senate particularly.

[Mike Rogers]

Yeah. To go in. When you look at the world, I've never seen the world in a more dangerous, precarious place in my lifetime. It used to be the certainty of, you know, you knew who the bad guys were and you knew who the good guys Were right. Boy, that's getting confusing by the day.

[John Ashbrook]

Right.

[Mike Rogers]

And add in there, you know, cyber, which is a whole new dynamic of the battlefield and how technology, and I've been in the technology for the last 10 years, how that technology and drones and other things has fundamentally changed the battlefield and what that means for us, America, preparing our military for this next phase of what combat's going to look like. And it's very, very different. You know, you worry. Are people keeping up?

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, yeah. And you know what's wild to me is that the problems are getting so much more complicated and yet Democrats are still stuck back here saying, you know what, Maybe we shouldn't give cops. Cops as much money. Maybe we should make it harder for them to do their jobs. Maybe we should support criminals instead of people who are actually the victims of crime. And I know that's a big issue in Michigan. You got to support the cops.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Mike Rogers]

I mean, we've had folks want to defund the police. And, you know, the police are bad. And by the way, when you want a mondami Michigan, that also means that you want. You want social workers hugging violent robbers and hoping that they surrender their firearms on to people.

[Josh Holmes]

Take a lot of solace in that.

[Mike Rogers]

You know, you see a guy with a clipboard, that's pretty intimidating.

[Josh Holmes]

Hey, talk me through this. This kid's got a gun to my head.

[Mike Rogers]

Exactly. Let me talk to you. By the way, page three gets a lot more interesting, so bear with me.

[Josh Holmes]

Just if you could initial at the bottom.

[Steve Schmidt]

Exactly.

[Mike Rogers]

And, and knowing these guys, listen, I was a street agent in, in Chicago. Listen, there's police officers for a reason. And you got to support them. Their job is hard on a good day, let alone when you take away their protections and you make them the bad guys. And here's what worries me about where I see the Democrats. So this video literally was calling for insubordination.

[Josh Holmes]

Yes.

[Mike Rogers]

You know, a lot of people made it about Trump versus. Because that's where the Democrats wanted to. That's not what they said. Right. And so as a young military officer, you can't answer 58 questions when you're ready to give an order to make sure that we accomplish the mission, people come home safe. You gotta go. Right. It is good order, military order that survives. Why the United States military is the greatest military, I think, in the world. And so you gotta protect that. These are elected officials basically raising questions and then saying you might be prosecuted if you follow these orders. You're 20 years old.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Mike Rogers]

Somebody's telling you to do something that's probably pretty hard. Yeah, right. Do I have to think, oh, my God, the Democrats are going to prosecute me if I follow. This is the most dangerous, irresponsible thing. But think about it. It's on the heels of what they just did to law enforcement. It's okay to go after law enforcement. They're the bad ones. They're the ones that are causing the problems. ICE is just the next law enforcement agency. That chaos against good order. Law and order is dangerous. That's who this new. This is not your grandmother's Democrat party anymore. These people have lost their minds. Oh, by the way, go ahead and have, you know, biological male compete against a young woman who has spent her whole life trying to be an excellent competitor. Oh, by the way, they can go in the locker room. We just had yesterday in Monroe, Michigan, a press conference, because they. This drives me insane. This young volleyball team gets. Is competing against a team just outside of Ann Arbor, Michigan. This is Monroe. They didn't tell the parents, didn't tell the school. Five minutes before the meet starts. They find out. Didn't. Weren't instructed. Find out there's a male on the female team of the opposition. And. Oh, by the way, going in the locker room. Oh, my God, their own locker room. And they had. In this particular case, they were all sharing a locker room, which is not normal even for competitors, but still.

[Josh Holmes]

That's insane.

[Mike Rogers]

And the courage of this young woman who yesterday got up to the microphone and told people why it was wrong. Good for her. Yeah. I mean, I was so proud of that young woman. I'm like, I don't know what you're doing, but, you know, run for governor one day. That's what I want you to do. I mean, think about what it took for her. I mean, a lot of guts to come up and have the guts to talk about, but the fact that she has to do it, that Democrats have lost their mind.

[Josh Holmes]

They put a high school senior in the position of having to defend something as basic.

[Mike Rogers]

Even worse, she was a sophomore.

[John Ashbrook]

Oh, wow.

[Mike Rogers]

Think how hard that is. It's. By the way, there was a bank of cameras and a big group. Can you imagine as a sophomore, I mean, I would have been, you know, in the back in a fetal position going, oh, my God, please don't turn.

[Josh Holmes]

Those cameras changing in the corner.

[Mike Rogers]

She had a lot of courage. I was so impressed with her. But think about this is what. What we're trying to respond to on behalf of the Democrat Party.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, yeah. What it's so out of whack.

[Mike Rogers]

It is so crazy.

[Josh Holmes]

You just have to defend being normal which is.

[Mike Rogers]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean common sense and in the Midwest no less.

[John Ashbrook]

Right. Yeah.

[Mike Rogers]

You wouldn't think about that in Michigan. Honestly you wouldn't know. And 10 years ago would we even be talking about this?

[Josh Holmes]

No. Well you think you'd lost your mind. You certainly wouldn't think you'd have to run a campaign against something like that.

[Mike Rogers]

No. Exactly. Or have a press conference on a very cold day in Monroe, Michigan. I mean you just. Unbelievable.

[Josh Holmes]

So I assume for Christmas you're going to take a day off, maybe have a little eggnog and then get hit back on the campaign trail.

[Mike Rogers]

We're probably take a day and a half although even it felt like we never stopped. I have to tell you. So you know you get done. I know you got. No, you kind of, kind of self evaluate like what the heck happened? We're not doing this again. Then of course Peters drops out. Yeah. Gary. Senator Gary Peters from Michigan drops out.

I don't think he told anybody. He just dropped down created this Democrat primary which they have not had. This is going to. You're going to be interested in this date since 1994.

[Josh Holmes]

Is that right? And stabenow it was.

[Mike Rogers]

That was Spence Abraham won that race.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh that was.

[Mike Rogers]

Yeah yeah that was the Spence, the Republican.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah the last time they had.

[Mike Rogers]

The last time they had a primary.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh that's an interesting wrinkle.

[John Ashbrook]

Excellent date.

[Mike Rogers]

Little, little, little factoid parallels when we.

[Josh Holmes]

Get our trivia down in Michigan Senate.

[Mike Rogers]

I love this.

[Josh Holmes]

So listen if people want to help out where do they go?

[Mike Rogers]

Rogers R O G E r s for senate.com and to me if you're looking to make a difference in a race if it's time or it's money and you know we got out raised five to one last time. We cannot do that again. And came within 310 of a percent. Did I mention that?

[Josh Holmes]

3 tenths.

[Mike Rogers]

Did I mention 232 votes. Just, just seeing if he got that. This is the state where you can invest something that I think will change the makeup of the Senate for some time to come. No question this is the place to make that investment because it will make it tough because they just count on this seat. We can always win this.

[Josh Holmes]

They bake it into the cake.

[Mike Rogers]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And with six year terms you really do change what the next cycle looks like and the cycle after that by holding it down. And I know listen if you get the job job you're going to keep the job. Because we've seen you up here, we've seen the work that you've done. You've been a hell of a represent representation of Michigan in general.

[Mike Rogers]

So thank you.

[Josh Holmes]

Anything we can do, you let us know.

[Mike Rogers]

Appreciate it. I appreciate it. If you have couches out there, make sure when people sit in them, you push on their shoulders so the coins fall out. Scoop up the coins, send them along to Rogers for Senate. It's going to be huge.

[Josh Holmes]

It's going to be huge. We love it. Mike Rogers, everybody.

[John Ashbrook]

Buddy.

[Mike Rogers]

Thanks, guys.

[John Ashbrook]

Appreciate you.

Boy, he came so close last time. I mean, point 3%, 200 something votes in every single county in the state. It seems like he has renewed his focus. And this guy is laser, you know, laser focused on a change election in that state that's been run by Democrats for so long. And why not try a Republican? I mean, it feels like that's a pretty good message.

[Josh Holmes]

I agree. And you know what I love is our first two segments. He knows and he talks about it. You know, I mean, we feel compelled to talk about all this because you're not going to get it anywhere. But he's talking about it. And I like a candidate like that.

[Mike Rogers]

Yep.

[Josh Holmes]

You know, they're just. They know the history of all of this and we talked about it in the interview. It was great. It was great. Help him out if you can. We're going to be paying close attention to that race all the way through and we're going to get a lot more candidates in front of you. Different races and different people getting. Get to know him a little bit and you can find out if they're douches or not. I think Mike cleared that bar by a long shot. He's just an absolutely terrific guy and I can't wait to see what the success that brings in that campaign. Anyway, fellas, I think we did it.

[Steve Schmidt]

Yeah, I think so. Absolute banger of an episode. Gentlemen, thank you so much to Mike Rogers and thank you to the listeners. Remember, if you have not yet, go to the YouTube hit that subscribe because it's more fun in video. So until next time, minions, keep the faith, hold the line and own the libs. We'll see you on Friday. Stay ruthless.