This is Why Democrats are Stuck with Platner + Buck Sexton Joins the Progrum

Summary

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Ruthless Podcast - Episode Summary

Episode Title: This is Why Democrats are Stuck with Platner + Buck Sexton Joins the Progrum
Date: June 11, 2026
Hosts: Josh Holmes, Comfortably Smug, Michael Duncan, John Ashbrook
Notable Guest: Buck Sexton

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Overview: Main Theme and Purpose

This episode dives into the political chaos surrounding Democratic Senate candidate Graham Platner, dissecting how and why the Democratic Party has found itself saddled with such a controversial nominee despite serious scandals—including a Nazi tattoo and allegations of assault. The hosts provide their signature blend of biting humor, irreverent takes, and sharp political analysis on the DNC's internal dilemmas, broader trends in progressive politics, and the impact of grassroots versus establishment battles. The show also features an interview with conservative media mainstay Buck Sexton, who discusses his new book "Manufacturing Delusion" and the mechanisms behind modern mass manipulation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Graham Platner and Democratic Dilemmas

Timestamps: 00:00–26:45

• Recurring Chaos: For months, damaging stories about Senate candidate Graham Platner keep surfacing, yet Democrats persist in backing him—a candidate with a Nazi tattoo, elite upbringing, and aggressive personal scandals.

  • “We haven’t gotten a calendar day for like five months without something horrific coming out about this cat.” – Josh Holmes [00:09]
  • “I didn't really expect… that somebody would just have a Nazi tattoo and then be a candidate for office as a Democrat. The United States Senate.” – John Ashbrook [00:18], repeated at [04:41]

• Class Warfare & Phoniness: The hosts ridicule Platner’s manufactured “working class” persona, revealing his privileged background (elite Hotchkiss boarding school, parental funding, “oyster farmer” business servicing only his mother).

  • “He created a senate website months before he created his oyster farmer website.” – Josh Holmes [05:30]
  • “Not exactly a successful small business owner.” – Sherry Jacobson [05:59]

• Party Desperation: Democratic leaders (like Schumer) recognized the risks of Platner and tried to replace him with Janet Mills, but she dropped out, leaving Platner as the default.

  • “He is so phony. I mean, I think that there’s one aspect to his persona that should not be overlooked…” – John Ashbrook [04:41]
  • Breakdown of Democratic infighting, with 20% still voting Mills after her withdrawal and polling shifts towards Susan Collins.

• Voter Coping & Delusion: The show lampoons Democratic voters’ rationalizations:

  • When asked about the Nazi tattoo, ‘a lot of people have stuff like that…’ – [11:18]
  • “It’s hard to stomach that he’s a Nazi. But you know what? I choose the Nazi.” – John Ashbrook [12:32]
  • “Challenging” – The establishment’s way of minimizing Platner’s problems (mocked for downplaying as mere ‘challenges’).

• Progressive Hostage Crisis: Hosts highlight how establishment Democrats fear alienating the Bernie/AOC base, muddying their willingness to censure Platner lest they trigger a far-left revolt.

  • “Democrats are in this… dilemma where they’re being held hostage. There’s a small group of psychopaths who have essentially a gun to their head and they have no choice.” – Michael Duncan [20:19]
  • Discussion of AOC’s growing fundraising power and the DNC’s historical pattern of sidelining primary voters, feeding base resentment.

• Media & Vetting Failure: The lack of candidate vetting and the party’s inability to control progressive activists are dissected, referencing a New York Times interview with Platner’s original recruiters.

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2. GOP & Trump Response

Timestamps: 26:24–28:20

• Trump’s Takedown: Trump lambasts Platner, calling him a “bad guy” and mocking Democrats’ inability to reject a clearly toxic candidate. Hosts discuss how Trump’s commentator instincts can be politically effective.

  • “He was so bad. He was so bad. He’s a bad guy, you know, just a bad guy.” – Donald Trump (clip, paraphrased by hosts) [26:50]
  • “Only Trump can do that — he loves to break the fourth wall.” – Sherry Jacobson [28:22]

• Context Setting: This case is used to illustrate the general dysfunction on the left and signal how Republicans can capitalize down the stretch.

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3. Worst Candidates in Senate Race History

Timestamps: 28:24–34:08

• Discussion rates Platner among the worst major-party Senate nominees ever, comparing him to figures like Christine O’Donnell, Todd Aiken, Sharon Angle, and Alvin Greene.
  • “He’s in my top three of the worst Senate candidates to ever make it to a general election.” – Josh Holmes [28:24]
  • Comedic recollections of Alvin Greene’s bizarre campaign and legal trouble.

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4. Segment: Listener Questions and Comments

Timestamps: 53:52–55:15

• Entertaining responses to the prompt: Who would win in a fight—Platner or Fetterman?
  • “Platner would fight dirty. Probably a bite or two.” – Listener comment [54:36]
  • “Fetterman holding Platner’s head with one hand while Platner is windmilling his arms like a malfunctioning inflatable tube man outside a car dealership.” – Listener comment [55:18]

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5. Interview With Buck Sexton: Propaganda, Delusion, and His New Book

Timestamps: 56:42–84:47

Buck Sexton Joins the Show

• Background: Sexton is introduced as a CIA veteran, radio host, and new author of "Manufacturing Delusion".
• CIA Experience: Shares insight into his time in the CIA post-9/11; recounts bureaucratic grind and analytical work, while contrasting the public’s “Jack Ryan” perception.

"Manufacturing Delusion": Themes & Takeaways

• Mass Manipulation: Book explores how propaganda and social cues manufacture mass delusion and political conformity even in free societies.

  • “There are ways to prey upon human weakness and particularly the weakness of the mind…” – Buck Sexton [69:21]
  • “I look at how they did it in the Soviet Union, Communist China, North Korea…” [69:21]

• Cult Dynamics: Parallels drawn between totalitarian brainwashing and modern progressive coercion (e.g., pronoun mandates, land acknowledgments).

  • “We do things like state your privilege. This is in America today… It has real precedent in coercive persuasion.” – [77:24]

• COVID as Case Study: Discusses how COVID hysteria exposed people’s susceptibility to collective delusion and government/cultural manipulation.

• Information Age Paradox: Sexton describes how unlimited information doesn’t prevent mass delusion due to “choose your own adventure” bubbles and psychological self-isolation enabled by tech.

• Solutions: Invokes Solzhenitsyn: “Live not by lies… The moment someone is pushing you to accept lies and mouth them, there is always a problem.” [84:00]

Entertaining Asides & Notable Moments

• Hosts and Sexton joke about being propositioned to “dialogue” by politicians like Ro Khanna (who DM’d Smug: “You’re a fucking moron.”) [16:16]
• The misinformation around lemmings and Disney's 1960s documentary highlighted as an example of manufactured belief.
  • “Disney… shoved [lemmings] off a cliff… and everyone just assumed…” – Buck Sexton [73:21]

Where to Get the Book:

• “Manufacturing Delusion” — available on Amazon, book stores, and reached #1 [84:07]

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6. Weekly Game: King of the Hill

Timestamps: 36:59–49:47

• Regular segment where hosts pit insane tweets from political personalities against each other in a mock court format, judged by Sherry Jacobson.
• Notable round: Debate over Bill Kristol’s wild Nazi/ICE tweet vs. unhinged anti-Trump takes from “Sherry My Sherry.”
  • “So the implication… is that Bavino is the real Nazi and the guy with the Nazi tattoo is not a Nazi.” – Sherry Jacobson [41:41]
  • Holmes objects to the “bailiff” interfering in court proceedings, leading to playful accusations of “prosecutorial misconduct.” [42:13]
• Judges and bailiffs openly game the process for comedic effect, poking fun at themselves and each other as well as at media absurdities.

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7. Variety & Odd News

Timestamps: 49:47–53:52

• Gator Justice: The sheriff in Louisiana gives an award to an alligator that helped “apprehend” a DWI fugitive—hosts riff on the absurdity of law enforcement commending animals for criminal takedowns.
  • “If this ain’t rock bottom, I don’t know what is… To just imagine him once he gets out… seeing the sheriff department giving an award to the alligator.” – Sherry Jacobson [52:31]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Challenging is very funny—like a crossword is challenging. Sexual assault allegations are troubling.” – Sherry Jacobson [14:15]
• “Democrats are in this… dilemma where they’re being held hostage. There’s a small group of psychopaths.” – Michael Duncan [20:19]
• “We haven’t gotten a calendar day for like five months without something horrific coming out about this cat.” – Josh Holmes [00:09]/[03:47]
• “He created a senate website months before he created his oyster farmer website.” – Josh Holmes [05:30]
• “If this ain’t rock bottom, I don’t know what is.” – Sherry Jacobson [52:31]
• “Live not by lies… The moment someone is pushing you to accept lies and mouth them, there is always a problem.” – Buck Sexton [84:00]

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Highlighted Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–14:45 Platner Scandal Deep Dives & Democratic Infighting
• 20:00–23:21 Analysis of Progressive Takeover in the Dems; AOC discussion
• 26:24–28:22 Trump’s Response and Republican Counterattack
• 28:24–34:08 Comparing Worst Senate Candidates in History
• 36:59–47:01 King of the Hill Game: Satirical Tweet Showdown
• 49:47–53:52 Gator Justice; Listener Comments on Platner vs. Fetterman
• 56:42–84:47 Buck Sexton Interview — Propaganda, Psychological Manipulation, Cults, COVID, and “Manufacturing Delusion”

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Tone & Style

The hosts weave together acerbic humor, sarcasm, and inside-baseball political analysis. The language is casual, sharp-edged, and loaded with pop culture references, making complex political dilemmas relatable and often hilarious, while holding nothing back in their critiques of both political parties.

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For New Listeners

This episode is a quintessential Ruthless mix—scathing yet playful deconstruction of contemporary politics, exposing the absurdities and hypocrisies of party leadership and activist wings, and an in-depth, thought-provoking interview on the psychological underpinnings of mass political movements. You’ll laugh, shake your head, and come away with a clearer sense of why the 2026 election season feels especially bonkers.

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Episode question for next time:
"What would a Dem candidate have to do to get dropped by the national party these days?"

Let the hosts know your thoughts for a chance to be featured!

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Transcript

[John Ashbrook]

What's the kind of person who sticks with Graham Platner through thick?

[Josh Holmes]

There you go.

[Michael Duncan]

Democrats are willing to light everything they've ever believed in on fire for this guy.

[Josh Holmes]

We haven't gotten a calendar day for like five months without something horrific coming out about this cat.

[John Ashbrook]

I didn't really expect that at any point in American history that somebody would just have a Nazi tattoo and then be a candidate for office as a Democrat. The United States Senate.

[Josh Holmes]

The pent up aggression within the Democratic base is such that they have created this on their own.

[John Ashbrook]

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[Buck Sexton]

Ladies and gentlemen, your attention please.

[John Ashbrook]

This program has become one of the

[Buck Sexton]

most influential podcasts in America. I love the personality. You guys are killing it.

[Sherry Jacobson]

I just saw your number one.

[Buck Sexton]

So congratulations.

[Josh Holmes]

It's an honor and a pleasure to welcome the great Sean.

[Buck Sexton]

Guys, I love you. Congratulations on all your success. This is why you listen to the Ruthless Podcast, because nobody else would ask that question.

[Michael Duncan]

The only political podcast worth listening to is the Ruthless Podcast.

[John Ashbrook]

It's time for our main event, the Ruthless Podcast.

[Josh Holmes]

Good Thursday to you. Welcome back to the Ruthless Variety Program. I'm Josh Holmes, along with comfortably smug Michael Duncan and John Ashbrook. Left to write across your radio dial. It's been a really big week here in Washington, D.C. great press conference by President Donald J. Trump, which he got into a whole bunch of stuff, some of which we'll give you here. As it pertains to Graham Platner, which I think he's our favorite reoccurring character on the program right now. I mean, Talarico's got his spot, no question about it. But, like, what once was jazzy jazz, I think has been taken over by Platner. What do you guys think about that?

[Michael Duncan]

I mean, that's the thing is, Democrats are willing to light everything they've ever believed in on fire for this guy. Like, it's kind of like, you know, Lucy pulling the football from Charlie Brown, where like, Democrats have asked this guy 10 times, like, so this is the last thing that's going to come out. And he's like, yep. And then he just pulls the football. They're on their face again. So this is the last thing that's going to come out. He's going to keep doing this shit because he's fake and he keeps doing bad shit. That's all that's good there is to it.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Yeah, like, the jazzy jazz stuff was funny content for our show. And I'm sure there's a lot of Democrats that laughed at it. You know, they'd never do that publicly. But the stakes of that was very low for, like, our national politics.

[Josh Holmes]

Yes.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Like, this could decide who controls the United States Senate.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. There's no question about it. Graham Platner in the state of Maine, which is why Chuck Schumer invested everything he could in Governor Janet Mills to try to oppose this guy. And she didn't even make it to the finish line. It's why the stakes are as immense as they are. So they're not willing to laugh at any of this stuff, except for the fact that we haven't gotten a calendar day for like five months without something horrific coming out about this cat. You know, we talked about it a little bit, Johnny, on last show where it's like, I don't know how many people that you know who have a Nazi tattoo, but generally speaking, you're not like, ah, good with kids, awful guy.

[Sherry Jacobson]

You know, got it all together.

[Josh Holmes]

He feels like he's a responsible citizen, but, oh, if it's not for the Nazi thing, he'd be a good person.

[John Ashbrook]

Well, the Nazi tattoo is sort of where I was stopped in my tracks. I didn't really expect that at any point in American history that somebody would just have a Nazi tattoo and then be a candidate for office as a Democrat, the United States Senate. But this guy is so bad. He is so phony. I mean, I think that there's one aspect to his Persona that should not be overlooked, and we've talked about it extensively on the show. And it. It's just how he pretends like he's some kind of working class stiff.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

You know, like, oh, I'm just an oyster farmer when it's. It's a make work job from his mom. Oh, his dad bought him a house oh, he went to Hotchkiss 70,000 a year boarding school.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, hold on. I want to rewind all those specific takes because I think that goes to explicitly who this guy is. When you're talking about the oyster farmer, what you're talking about is a guy who created a senate website months before he created his oyster farmer website.

[John Ashbrook]

Right.

[Josh Holmes]

And when he became an oyster farmer, he had but one client, and that client was his mom.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Right. Not exactly a successful small business owner.

[Josh Holmes]

Right. And this is like, oh, he's. But he's a bootstrap. He's really lived the real life. He's done all these things. He went to Hotchkiss, a $70,000 a year boarding school. And each one of these little intricacies that we kind of blow past for people who don't. Haven't followed this story along, they're like, oh, yeah, yeah. But if you stop and look at each one of them, this guy's a bald face liar.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Yes, dude.

[John Ashbrook]

Like, okay, Donald Trump.

[Michael Duncan]

All right?

[John Ashbrook]

His father was very wealthy. Donald Trump went to boarding school. Donald Trump's boarding school was not as expensive as Hotchkiss. Okay? This school is where the most powerful and well connected in American history have gone. Like one of the guys from Morgan Stanley.

[Josh Holmes]

Stanley.

[John Ashbrook]

That's where he went. Have you ever heard of. Have you ever heard of Pillsbury? There's a Pillsbury there. There were like half a dozen from the Ford family who went there. This is the creme de la creme of global society who have attended this school. And he's like, you know what? I'm just a sub star, blue collar working class.

[Michael Duncan]

And that's the thing is it's the phoniness that's the real problem here is everything about him is a complete and total lie. And it's offensive for him because Democrats realized that they have a significant problem appealing to working class Americans. When you say that like, well, what we stand for is getting trans surgeries for children and having drag queen story. That doesn't really appeal to working class Americans. And so they get their asses kicked in 2024. And they're like, okay, we gotta find candidates who appeal to working class Americans. Let's find a 70,000 year boarding school guy to act like he's a working. We got a American.

[Josh Holmes]

You go down like, who's the least impressive member of the Hodgkiss graduating class of 1999? Oh, I've got it. Graham Platner. What's he up to? And they're like, you know, he just lives off his parents. He does whatever. And they're like, could he be an oyster farmer?

[Michael Duncan]

That's the thing. Like, normally parents take their kids to the beach and they'll collect seashells and like, okay, you can take a few home. All right, get in the car, honey. They're calling him an oyster farmer for doing that shit. Like, he brought mom a few oyster shells. Now.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Now we form the llc Y.

[Josh Holmes]

It's truly remarkable. All right, so. But there was a lot of consternation on the Democrat side because it was, we said, like, Chuck Schumer, for all of his problems, he does understand what makes for a general election candidate in states that you have to win or not. He doesn't tell you that, but intrinsically, you know that he knows that. And he saw Graham Platner and he was like, ah, I don't think this is going to do the trick. We got to recruit Governor Janet Mills. He does that. Janet Mills is a freaking mummy. Like, this lady is old as the hills. She has absolutely no.

[Michael Duncan]

Is she older than that? I think she is older than even.

[Josh Holmes]

I think that's right.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

Just by a year or two.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, I think that's right. But she has the capacity of relating to absolutely no one. And of course, her. Her whole campaign goes tits up. Like, three months before the primary, she quits. So he's the guy. But they can't quite acknowledge that she has gone, because story after story, day after day, there's Red Reddit posts, there's assault allegations. There is the New York Times, of all places, landing on this person's doorstep, which, as you say, smash is in service of other Democrats. So they clearly shows that Democrats are still concerned and want to start pushing oppo on Graham Platner in hopes of the mummified campaign of Janet Mills actually winning this thing in one way or another. Well, it doesn't happen. And what happens is graphic 1. 71.9% of the main Democratic primary electorate. Alex Graham Platner. Now, he didn't really have any opposition. Notice that Janet mills almost had 20%,

[Sherry Jacobson]

which is why, with a suspended campaign,

[Josh Holmes]

60 days removed from her saying, I'm out, I'm out, I'm done. I'm not running for United States senate. Still got 20%. That's something.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

And if you watch the general election polling between Platner and Collins, Platner, like, a month ago was at 52.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

And then slowly over the last month, he has fallen and fallen and fallen. And then yesterday, there was a poll that showed within the margin, Susan Collins just ahead of Graham Platner. And I think the fact that 30% of Democrats voting against him probably is part of that.

[Josh Holmes]

And part of that is what we discussed on Tuesday, which was that little vignette of the supporter of Graham Platner who was like, unbelievable video.

[Michael Duncan]

I mean, actually insane, who is like,

[Josh Holmes]

hey, what do you think of the Nazi tattoo? She's like, a lot of people have stuff like that. Nazi, whatever. Many people can be confused. They don't know what exactly that is. And they're like, well, what if he had a. An Israeli flag? And she's like, well, personally, I'm opposed to genocide, so therefore, that would be the insane.

[Michael Duncan]

Which is the most insane Take insane.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And like, you know, but if you're

[John Ashbrook]

asking yourself, what's the kind of person who sticks with Graham Platner through thickness?

[Josh Holmes]

There you go.

[Michael Duncan]

That's the point.

[Josh Holmes]

There you go. But it's not the kind of candidate that gets through a general election against somebody like Susan Collins, which is where they're at. Right. So they're all in this delicate dance, knowing that the likelihood of the entire United States Senate majority is resting upon the shoulders of Graham Platner. They don't know quite how to handle it. Clip 1.

[John Ashbrook]

When it comes to the substance of

[Buck Sexton]

this reporting, obviously there's a lot in

[Michael Duncan]

that behavior that's really challenging.

[Buck Sexton]

It's hard to challenging stomach, you know, in some of it.

[Michael Duncan]

But, but, but at the end of

[Buck Sexton]

the day, I think that this is a choice.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Mm.

[Josh Holmes]

It's a choice.

[Michael Duncan]

It is a choice.

[John Ashbrook]

It's hard to stomach that he's a Nazi. But you know what? I choose the Nazi. Get out of here. That's not a great look at the head, you know, the head of a 2028 presidential race.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Well, and there's that old. You know what I mean? There's that.

[John Ashbrook]

Jonas. Say what you will about Jon Osseff. He hasn't done that.

[Sherry Jacobson]

There's that rule of thumb that, you know, when a politician makes a statement, everything that comes before but is bullshit. Yeah, it doesn't matter.

[Josh Holmes]

It's the caveat.

[Sherry Jacobson]

But she didn't just do the but a double butt. And then she said, at the end of the day, but, but, but.

[Michael Duncan]

And to call it like it's challenging

[Sherry Jacobson]

is a wild, not troubling, you know,

[Josh Holmes]

sexual assault, domestic assault allegations, all of those things notwithstanding, you're challenging. I do. I do care deeply about the power, essentially.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Dude.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, that's.

[John Ashbrook]

It's wild. It would be so easy for her to just say, I don't like him. You know, like, what does she lose? What does she actually lose by saying, I don't like him?

[Josh Holmes]

He's her.

[John Ashbrook]

I disagree with him.

[Josh Holmes]

He's her lane.

[Michael Duncan]

That's the problem. Her lane.

[Sherry Jacobson]

That's why she's stuck. And I mean, I think a lot of the Democratic establishment is stuck there as well right now because Graham Platner does come from that Bernie Bro AOC world, and they know that that movement is a problem for them and in their internal Democratic politics. And it can't look like the establishment is throwing him overboard.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, no, no, that's exactly right. They just want to surf the top, no matter how toxic the water is that they're riding upon.

[Sherry Jacobson]

But challenging is very funny.

[Josh Holmes]

Challenging like.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Like a crossword is challenging. Sexual assault allegations are troubling those.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, yeah, it's challenging those. Pesky, troubling, challenging things. We're not done. Ro Khanna, who I have read in recent days, is fashioning himself a presidential candidate of his own.

[John Ashbrook]

You've got to be kidding me.

[Michael Duncan]

No.

[Josh Holmes]

There's been discussions about this within the Ro Khanna camp, about how he's going to take up the battle of the Democratic Party, and so he needs to insert himself in conversations like this.

[Michael Duncan]

Clip 3 There's nothing credible at this point.

[Buck Sexton]

My view is that even according to

[Josh Holmes]

the New York Times piece, they said

[Sherry Jacobson]

there was no harm, no injury, there

[Josh Holmes]

was toxicity, and there was verbal intimidation, which I condemn.

[Buck Sexton]

But Graham has made it clear that there was no evidence of violence.

[Josh Holmes]

That, to me is a red line.

[John Ashbrook]

He wasn't actually working at a concentration camp. He just has the tattoo that all

[Sherry Jacobson]

those guys who worked there had.

[John Ashbrook]

So therefore, I'm running for president.

[Michael Duncan]

I mean, dude,

[Josh Holmes]

smug, what do we make of that?

[Michael Duncan]

So this is the thing is, and I've made the case this is actually pretty hilarious. So months ago, I called out Ro Khanna and I said that, like, it's funny because I had so many friends in Silicon Valley for years who told me, like, no, smug, you're wrong about Ro. He's actually a centrist. And I said, I've told you people for years, he was spineless and he'll say anything. And he's a little worm who just wants to get elected, and he's unwilling to accept the facts. Anything that's necessary, that's the position he'll take. And they've come to realize this. And the funniest part of it is, then Ro DM's me and he was like, we should have a dialogue. There's a lot of. And I said, you're a dialogue. I said, you're a fucking moron. Have a dialogue with that dude. A dialogue.

[Josh Holmes]

Dialogue.

[Michael Duncan]

And that's the thing is, did someone.

[Josh Holmes]

He actually. Hold on, I need to pause. I need to pause on this. Ro Khanna DM'd you and asked not to have a beer, not to have a conversation, not to sit down and maybe work through some issues that perhaps have been expressed on your part. Let's dialogue. Let's dialogue.

[Michael Duncan]

Appreciate engagement. See my thoughts on how to reduce fraud. Hope to collaborate on this. Fuck you, dude.

[Josh Holmes]

He wants to collaborate.

[Michael Duncan]

Talk about a. Like, believes in nothing. No core. Like believes in only having polling and focus groups. Like, that shit doesn't work, dude. Everyone sees you're a fraud and you're phony. Especially like on that, where you're like, well, even the New York Times, dude, the New York Times said that he twisted a woman's arm, threw her in a room and held the door so she couldn't get out.

[Josh Holmes]

And he's like, out of here. He's like, I don't see any. There's no scars involved.

[Michael Duncan]

And that's why. That's why she's not him. And his team can get him pictures into thinking he can win presidency, but everyone now sees him for what he is, which.

[Josh Holmes]

Can I ask you a question? Yeah, send Indian thing. What, him coming at you with that?

[Michael Duncan]

No, that's a bitch thing.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, I'm just wondering why he thought that you were approachable. Because it.

[Michael Duncan]

Probably because, like, if I'm a Democrat,

[Josh Holmes]

the last person on the planet that I would want to engage in a dialogue about my malfeasance would be comfortably

[Michael Duncan]

saying, well, no, it's because the thing is that a lot of folks, respectful folks in Silicon Valley I've known for years now, and I've told them for years that Ro is a phony. And they've all now come to see it, and probably it's gotten back to him.

[Sherry Jacobson]

And I also think Rou Khan is delusional enough to think he can spin people.

[Josh Holmes]

Can I engage the gentleman in a manner of a colloquy? I mean, essentially, that's what he's asking, which is bizarre.

[Michael Duncan]

He's fake, he's a phony, and everyone sees it. And I think that clip perfectly encapsulates it.

[Josh Holmes]

I'm glad I didn't see an amplification of Ro Khanna coming into this segment, but we've learned something here today. Well, Chris Coons, remember he was the chairman of the Biden campaign back in 2020. He was thought to be a really sensible. He's just the most dog. There's never been a vote in history where he's not just predictably Democrat. I mean, this is not somebody who's exciting or interesting in any. It's just like a vote. You know what I mean? It's just like one of those people. You never know their name, but they just vote the way they vote. But because of Joe Biden, he got elevated a little bit. And so he's around. People ask him questions like this. In clip four, he said, there's nothing

[Michael Duncan]

out there that's actually concerning. My question to you is, is his

[Josh Holmes]

definition of concerning the same as yours?

[Michael Duncan]

He has. He had a tattoo which, you know is a Nazi tattoo. A Tottenkoff there has definite Nazi symbolism.

[Guest or External Clip Speaker]

He.

[Josh Holmes]

The New York Times and the Washington

[Michael Duncan]

Wall Street Journal reported he. There was physically violent toward an ex girlfriend. There were all the posts he made.

[Josh Holmes]

He says that's not concerning.

[Michael Duncan]

Is that the same view of concerning that you have?

[Josh Holmes]

Well, John, that's a judgment the voters have made. I have concerns about his tattoo and the story about whether he knew what it meant or not and when. And concerns about the allegations. Democrats have held our candidates and our colleagues to high standards. Oh, is that particularly when it comes to any allegations of sexual assault? But I also respect the fact that the voters of Maine, like most states, did not like national party leaders coming in and anointing one candidate over another.

[Michael Duncan]

That's an incredible way to attempt to thread that nail.

[John Ashbrook]

What is the motivation to stick up for Graham Platner? Like, can't you just say, keep the

[Sherry Jacobson]

Bernie Bros from revolting?

[Michael Duncan]

That's the thing is, like, I think the Democrats. The Democrat Party is in this, like, dilemma where they're being held hostage. There's a small group of psychopaths who have essentially a gun to their head and they have no choice. Schumer even realizes this because he knows AOC could come in and primary him and he's out. He knows this, that that group, those psychopaths who have run the Democrat Party into a ditch and lost them election after election, they're like, no, you don't understand. Bernie Bros weren't allowed to fight hard enough is not a winning strategy. It's the Michigan problem. It's allowing the Hamas caucus to take over. There's a small vocal group of psychopaths, and now the Democrat Party is stuck with them in a room and it's a psychopath's.

[Sherry Jacobson]

And the other motivation could be a demonstration project of that fact. Like they might look at a situation like Maine and they're like, we'd love to win it. Yeah, it'd be great to win Maine and be great to beat Susan Collins, but honestly, there's better pickup opportunities. You know, she's pulled a rabbit out of the hat before. Maybe we come up short in main, maybe that's okay. Maybe we still have a path to a majority for Democrats in the Senate without it. And if Graham Platner goes down, we prove to the Bernie bros that thanks for being part of the team, but your brand of politics might not work.

[Josh Holmes]

I think there is something to that. But I also think it. You could broaden this aperture a lot in that this progressive movement, aoc, Bernie, whatever, has been driving a significant amount of the Democratic base for quite some time and it's growing. There was an article just last week about how AOC is now the largest Democratic fundraiser in the House of Representatives. Which is a wild thing considering, like, I don't. I don't know that she can like read.

[Sherry Jacobson]

You know what I mean?

[Josh Holmes]

Like that, that's an incredible thing. But that is where she's at. Then you put it against the backdrop of the fact that nationwide, I'm not talking about individual states nationwide, Democrats have not cast a meaningful ballot in a presidential primary since 2008. In 2016, it was rigged. Superdelegates and the rest. In 2020, it was rigged. They voted for somebody else.

[Michael Duncan]

The Carolina deal, the switcheroo.

[Josh Holmes]

They voted for somebody else. They voted for Pete. And all of a sudden all the candidates drop out and endorse Joe Biden and he's the guy in 2024, you look at the current president, they cancel all.

[Michael Duncan]

The primary was like, there's not a fucking primary.

[Josh Holmes]

It wasn't until the President of the United States literally ate shit in public that you had to pull him out. But did they run a primary? Did they have an open convention? Did they have any voice whatsoever? No, they didn't. They just crowned Kamala and went on to a fucking historic L. So the pent up aggression within the Democratic base is such that they have created this on their own.

[Michael Duncan]

That's the thing.

[Josh Holmes]

They have created this problem. Like, I don't know if you guys saw the interview of the two fucking idiots who recruited Graham Platner to run. It was a New York Times thing, dude. Up talking voice with the glottal fry. Yes, the up talking glottal fry.

[John Ashbrook]

Right.

[Josh Holmes]

That that cat where they were like, did you. Did you vet him?

[Michael Duncan]

And they're like,

[Josh Holmes]

they're like, did you know about this?

[John Ashbrook]

And like, they didn't send me everything that I. I didn't see all of it.

[Josh Holmes]

No, it was like.

[John Ashbrook]

It was like Portlandia.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Really?

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

Dude, if you haven't seen it, oh, my God.

[Josh Holmes]

You got to see it. And. And then they asked him about, like, did. Did in the vetting, did you know about the Nazi tattoo? And the guy's like,

[Guest or External Clip Speaker]

no,

[Josh Holmes]

but that's who's running their fucking party and their way of handling it in 2020 when they had just the 2020 and 2016 elections. In 2012, I guess with Obama, where primary voters had no real say, was just to adopt the Bernie agenda, which is what Biden did in the first quarter of his presidency, which summarily ruined the American economy. Now they don't have those tools. So they got to deal with the fucking bozos in that New York Times interview who are like, I didn't think about that. Like, did you know that he was a Nazi?

[Michael Duncan]

They're like, and even the times itself, I mean, like, the times itself was captured by their Slack channel. That's why it's the mess that it is. That's how you end up with like, hiring Taylor Lorenz. And then she just like, turns on the newsroom and throws all of them, like, in front of the bus.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Not just traditional media. Look at the Pod Bros. The Pod Bros turned into Bernie Bros. Right? And they have to held the line for Joe Biden right up to the moment that it impacted their ability to get power.

[Josh Holmes]

And it's surfing on top of. It's basically the premise of be for what's going to happen.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And that's where Democrats are. BE for what's going to happen. And their sincere hope is that there is enough discontent with President Donald Trump only where they don't have to have any ideas. They don't have anybody who can tie their shoes and speak in full sentences. They don't need anything other than to be the other in a midterm election. And they're perfectly comfortable with that because they know if they speak up. And like, I don't know, maybe we should have some policy agenda. Maybe we should have someone who can articulate something about anything or not be a Nazi. They know that the Bernie Bros. Have had like 16 years of anger pent up to be like, you shut the fuck up.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, you're so. Dude, they did this to them.

[Josh Holmes]

They did it.

[Michael Duncan]

It took cycles.

[Sherry Jacobson]

They did they still talk about the Nevada caucuses in 2016? They do. How Hillary rigged it, but that's 100% what happened.

[Josh Holmes]

That's 100% what happened. So, anyway, Trump got involved. He did an incredible press conference yesterday that covered a whole range of topics. But the Platner stuff in particular caught my ear because it's been a while since the President has engaged in the, like, fist fight of election politics. He's been involved in Iran and all kinds of different things. But he weighed in on this. Clip five.

[Guest or External Clip Speaker]

He was so bad. He was so bad. He's a bad guy, you know, just a bad guy. He must be laughing up his sleeve when he looks at these idiots going like Schumer. Well, he's okay. He's okay. He's not okay. Can you imagine if the Republicans had him? Oh, my God, if we had him, John wouldn't let it happen. I think I really believe it. If it meant losing the Senate, you would not let that happen.

[John Ashbrook]

Correct.

[Guest or External Clip Speaker]

That's just a terrible, terrible thing. I mean, I watch it happening. It's unfolding. It's really history. Because there's never been a guy like that that's ever run for office at any level. I don't think at any level. And the excuses, they come up every day. Somebody comes forward with really proven stuff. Even his business, you know, he's not a businessman at all. His parents supported him. Guy's a loser. Other than that, he might be a very nice guy.

[Michael Duncan]

Other than that,

[Josh Holmes]

the guy's a loser. I mean, it does remind you also of the ace in the hole that Republicans will have down the stretch when Trump gets focused on this stuff. He's very good at that. I mean, very, very good at that. Republicans across the board have been talking about Graham Platner and the ridiculousness that he provides, but when he weighs in, it's kind of a different thing.

[Michael Duncan]

Well.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Cause it's commentator Trump, right? He's just observing the situation. He's not just talking about Graham Platner. He is embarrassing the Democrats who know it's bullshit. They're defending this guy.

[Josh Holmes]

They know it.

[Sherry Jacobson]

But only Trump can do that.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, he loves to break the fourth wall.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Right?

[Josh Holmes]

So I went on and smug. You're going to be upset about this, because I'm going to extend this just a touch because I think this is. These are stories worth telling in that we've been involved, all of us, collectively and individually at some level, in Senate politics, Senate campaigns for like, 20 years. I think that he's in my top three of the worst Senate candidates to ever make it to a general election in a competitive race, for sure. I'm sure there are some, you know, non competitive that we never focused on where you had a worse candidate. But I think he makes it in the top three. And like my number one, I think will always be the witch. And Christine o' Donnell in Delaware, I think his worst.

[Michael Duncan]

I think this came up when I was doing my.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Was definitely a worse person.

[Josh Holmes]

She provided no danger.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Right.

[Michael Duncan]

When I did my hit with Hewitt, we brought this up and I said, Holmes said that this guy Platner may be the worst Senate candidate. And then he was like, you know, I think he's up to Christian o'. Donnell. I was like, dude, no, this guy's way worse. Platner is like a phony and a maniac. You know what I mean? There's a lot there.

[Josh Holmes]

I think he's a worse person. I'm just talking about candidate.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, I mean even as a candidate, it's like every day is gonna be stepping on a rape.

[Josh Holmes]

I bet he gets closer than she did.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, I think that's more of a commentary on what the Democrat party has been doing.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, I agree with that. But second, and this is what I want smashed away in. It's a real juggling act from my standpoint about like Todd Aiken, remember the legitimate rape down in the like last six weeks of an election, he's asked a question about abortion. Somehow he takes that in a direction about whether someone is legitimately raped because a woman has a way of shutting all that down. And it was like the most insane answer that anybody's ever heard.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Very insensitive thing.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, it's just insane. I mean it's just like biologically, scientifically and morally insane. And he got blown out as a result of it. And then you have people like Sharon Angle in, in Nevada, a manifestly unqualified candidate. He was running against Harry Reid, who was just a talk about a layup of an election to win. And she couldn't figure it out. She was like in rooms full of minority students calling them the wrong minority. I mean it was just, it was. She was horrible. The one that I remember the most, Johnny, the South Carolina guy who won a Democratic primary and a well funded against a well funded like state senator who was president of the state senate caucus or whatever it was down there, Alvin Green.

[Sherry Jacobson]

That's it, Alvin Green.

[Josh Holmes]

And everyone in the state of South Carolina who's running against Jim DeMint. I think at the time, everyone in the State of South Carolina on the Democratic side mistook him for the former Al Green. Yeah, right. He was deceased, but people thought, oh, Al Green.

[Michael Duncan]

I love his music.

[Sherry Jacobson]

He may have been deceased.

[Michael Duncan]

He would have been a better candidate.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, from the grave.

[Josh Holmes]

No, from the grave. Way better. But they couldn't find him. They couldn't find him. Like they didn't know when they find, when he won, like this was like a 10 million dollar raise.

[Sherry Jacobson]

It's. But smug. At the time, he had raised like $200.

[Michael Duncan]

I remember, I remember when he got found by the news and they interviewed

[Josh Holmes]

him, they found him outside of some garage and they were like, hey, Al, what do you think about your big victory? And he was like,

[Michael Duncan]

we, we gotta find the clip.

[John Ashbrook]

South Carolina's Democratic Senate candidate Alvin Green says he is going to continue his campaign as expected, even after being indicted on a felony charge. But there was a rather bizarre encounter captured on camera when a TV crew went to ask him about it Friday.

[Josh Holmes]

Can I just ask you if you're going to keep it. Are you going to stay in the race, Alvin? Yes. Yes, you are.

[Guest or External Clip Speaker]

How can you do that?

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Leave the public.

[Buck Sexton]

Go away.

[Josh Holmes]

Go away.

[John Ashbrook]

Well, that's not where it ends. See, Green continued yelling at the crew when they went outside to talk to his brother. What you're going to hear in the background is Greene screaming.

[Sherry Jacobson]

No

[Buck Sexton]

comment.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

We're going to stay in the race.

[Josh Holmes]

Has he told you what happened?

[Buck Sexton]

No, but we're going to stay in the race.

[John Ashbrook]

He was a terrible candidate. Terrible, terrible candidate. And Democrats blew him off. But you know what Al Green did not have on his body was a Totenkov. You know what I mean?

[Josh Holmes]

No, he didn't have a malicious phone in his body.

[John Ashbrook]

Exactly.

[Michael Duncan]

I think he went to jail. I think he did something wrong.

[Josh Holmes]

I think he died, Bud.

[Michael Duncan]

I think, I think Al Green did something wrong. I think he's no longer with us. Well, I, I think he did something wrong. And, and you can do something wrong and still die.

[Sherry Jacobson]

That's out of pocket.

[Josh Holmes]

But, but at some point maybe we should do like a top 10 worst candidates of all time. But for me, that's the three. And Al Green has a special place with Graham Planner.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Yeah, in that regard, it was incredible.

[Michael Duncan]

Oh, my God. I found it. In June 2010, the media reported that Green was facing felony obscenity charges stemming from an incident that occurred the previous fall at University of South Carolina. It occurred in a basement computer lab. I rest my case. Something bad.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Smug. Vindicated yet again.

[Josh Holmes]

Al, what are you doing with your stuff out.

[Sherry Jacobson]

They always catch him surprised.

[Michael Duncan]

We gotta find that clip.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Hopefully that was literally his answer to every question.

[Josh Holmes]

What do you think? Think about that.

[John Ashbrook]

I'll never forget it.

[Josh Holmes]

Anyway, it leads us to our question of the day. When you like and subscribe to the ruthless variety program, we ask you a question each and every episode and we get back to you with the best responses in the very next episode. And this time it's Funtime Fridays to try to be funny. What would a Dem candidate have to do to get dropped by the national party? I can't think of anything. If you're down with Nazi tattoos, if you're down with allegations of assault, domestic violence, alleged sexual assault. If you're down with all that. I don't know, man. Like seems like a high bar. It seems like a high bar.

[John Ashbrook]

Well, I mean they're an awful lot of Democrats in the state of Maine. You'd think they could find someone who doesn't have a Nazi tattoo. You think they can find someone who could put two sentences together, who is a normal person?

[Josh Holmes]

You think not thinking. Get by a primary electorate. Evidently that's the problem. Not that. Can get back a bit. Yeah. So you never know. We come back, we've got King of the Hill. Yeah, it's going to be a good one. It's going to good. King of the Hill. And we've got some animal news and some variety right after this. You know what's wild? There's a federal program called 340B designed to help low income patients afford medicine. And tax exempt hospital systems have exploited loopholes to turn it into a billion dollar cash machine. They collect massive drug discounts, but families still pay full price. And when anyone asks where the money actually goes, hospitals lawyer up and they go silent. If they're helping patients, prove it, open the books. Learn [e-mail] American Energy is growing with

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[John Ashbrook]

Energy.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

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[Josh Holmes]

Okay, fellas, it's Thursday and you know what that means. It's a time for our signature presentation. Our game of the week. King of the hill.

[Sherry Jacobson]

King of the hill. And I am judged today. So sort of an old school King of the hill.

[John Ashbrook]

Very fair.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Judge smug is bailiff.

[John Ashbrook]

Great Bailiff.

[Sherry Jacobson]

And our defending champion is John Ashbrook. Correct.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah. And I've got Bill Crystal.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Bill Crystal, our challenger. Holmes, who you bring into the table? Sharon, Michelle. See, this is what I'm saying.

[Josh Holmes]

Share my Sherry.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Why is it that he always gets Sherry? My Sherry?

[Michael Duncan]

I. I think.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Is it like rigged with. Yeah, probably in the production team. It's like they save Sherry just for him.

[Josh Holmes]

I feel like it's everything by the rules.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Okay.

[Josh Holmes]

Black letter law.

[John Ashbrook]

Your honor will be fair.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, I follow it. No gray here.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Let's go ringside.

[John Ashbrook]

Ladies and gentlemen, your. Your attention, please. It's time for king of the hill. In the red corner, fighting from her own Twitter account, Commie Cherry Jacob. And now in the blue corner, fighting from Pierroma Dyer's checkbook, and current champion of the world, Bill. Or now or forever, Crystal.

[Michael Duncan]

Just outstanding work.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Nice.

[Josh Holmes]

Always. Good. Nice.

[Sherry Jacobson]

So our defending champion goes first, Ashbrook.

[John Ashbrook]

Let's start with exhibit number five, please. And the champion, Bill Kristol, is tweeting a quote from his bulwark story, Nazis comma, real and imagined, with a photo of Graham Plattner and a guy named Greg Bovino. Quote, until recently, the government gave Bavino a badge, a gun, and the legal sanction to use deadly force. He chose to dress like an SS Ober Sturmbon. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that correctly.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Pretty good.

[John Ashbrook]

And now he's telling us his, quote, mission is to deport nearly a third of the people living in America. So you have Bill Kristol dismissing Graham Platner and his Nazi tattoo and elevating this guy Greg Bevino, who was working for the government, trying to deport people per the law.

[Michael Duncan]

That's such an insane take. Like, it's beyond the pale. Like, Crystal, just. Man, I hope those checks are good because that's just unbelievable.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Interesting.

[Michael Duncan]

Insane take, homes.

[Josh Holmes]

I'm trying to calibrate which direction.

[Michael Duncan]

I mean, that's tough.

[John Ashbrook]

Like.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, I'm trying to calibrate which direction I go. I think I'm Going to go with exhibit 10, please, Eddie. Oh, Trump sleeps all day because he's up all night on truth social maniacally posting about Hunter Biden. He also sleeps all day in meetings on camera because he's had a bunch of strokes, is in heart failure and has dementia.

[Michael Duncan]

Wow.

[Josh Holmes]

Like, dude, I gotta tell you, I don't know.

[Michael Duncan]

I mean that's, you know, you come to expect that cherry take of like, okay, it's a mindless garbage. But how do you crystal to jump out and be like, listen, the guy with the Nazi is not the Nazi.

[Josh Holmes]

What's happening?

[Michael Duncan]

This guy who actually was deporting illegally.

[Josh Holmes]

Wait a second.

[Sherry Jacobson]

I'll allow it. I like a bailiff who, who assists.

[Buck Sexton]

We're going to uphold the law.

[Josh Holmes]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. There's not a judge advocate here. Well, I, I, there's not.

[Buck Sexton]

Excuse.

[Josh Holmes]

Order. Amicus brief. Order in the court filed. I'm aware of one.

[Michael Duncan]

He's got control, judge.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Order in my court.

[John Ashbrook]

I respect you, your honor.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, this is outrageous.

[Michael Duncan]

Let's tell him.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Can I see Ash Brooks play again? The Bill Crystal tweet. Just want to look at this for further.

[John Ashbrook]

Comparing a federal officer to a guy with a toten coffee tattoo who's been compared to the worst candidate.

[Sherry Jacobson]

And what is the, what is the headline of that Bulwark article?

[John Ashbrook]

Your honor, the headline on the Bulwark article is Nazis real and imagined.

[Michael Duncan]

That's insane.

[Sherry Jacobson]

So the implication there from Bill Kristol is that Bavino is the real Nazi and the guy with the Nazi tattoo is not a Nazi.

[John Ashbrook]

That's what the reader is left to conclude. Your honor,

[Sherry Jacobson]

Ashbrook wins round one.

[Michael Duncan]

I think that's fair.

[Josh Holmes]

I just have to say. I just have to say I am obviously final appeal. This is justice denied.

[Michael Duncan]

I think it's a fair judge.

[Josh Holmes]

Bailiff.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Those remarks will be stricken from the record. No, no, they will not stricken.

[Josh Holmes]

No, they will not keep on speaking. And I will just say that I never have ever encountered a.

[Michael Duncan]

And you should strike this also from

[Josh Holmes]

the show which the appointed officer of the law has become an advocate. This is prosecutorial misconduct.

[Sherry Jacobson]

All of this is being removed from the transcript. You know that little lady with the typewriter right now, she's just, she's, she's chilling it all out.

[Josh Holmes]

I'm just telling you our people are going to be pissed. And it's all on you for doing this.

[Michael Duncan]

This is just.

[Josh Holmes]

You have, you have.

[Michael Duncan]

This is the justice works this game.

[Sherry Jacobson]

It's time for you.

[Josh Holmes]

This game is a sham.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Round two to the challenger.

[Josh Holmes]

Okay, exhibit six. That feeling when you get this, when you score a six dollar bottle of Cabernet at Trader Joe's that tastes like you spent $20.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Wow, dude, that rules.

[Michael Duncan]

Actual incredible date.

[Sherry Jacobson]

It's an old genre, but a familiar one from Sherry.

[Josh Holmes]

It's nice to know it continues. It's nice.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Well, it's kind of sad though.

[Josh Holmes]

Is it?

[Sherry Jacobson]

I don't know.

[Josh Holmes]

I don't know, Ashbrook. It's like two buck Chuck. I'm not even sure two buck Chuck can go for six bucks these days.

[John Ashbrook]

Your Honor, may I say I look forward to the day when I can watch in awe as you serve.

[Michael Duncan]

Give it a rest. That's a bit much. All you had to do was up a good take.

[Sherry Jacobson]

None of the viewers saw an Ashbrook Duncan alliance coming, that's for sure.

[Josh Holmes]

This is.

[Sherry Jacobson]

But when you, when you travel to New York and your brothers in arms as you climb the tower.

[Josh Holmes]

Now I know the appeal is going to stick.

[John Ashbrook]

He was so fast, guys. He was so fast.

[Sherry Jacobson]

All right, what do you got?

[John Ashbrook]

Exhibit one, please. Once again, quote, tweeting a bulwark article, this one tight, entitled get ready for November's Stop the steel and Bill Kristol tweets on top of it. Multi barreled morning shots, the Stop the steal lies in the LA Mayor race are a dress rehearsal for an all out election subversion in November. Trump's triumphal arch is repulsive. Fighting it is important. Trump invited the screwworm back to the

[Josh Holmes]

U.S. this is incredible finish.

[Michael Duncan]

Where did the finish on that tweet come from?

[John Ashbrook]

This is a golden corral buffet of insanity. You get a little bit of anything you might want.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Wow.

[John Ashbrook]

Okay.

[Michael Duncan]

Actually was kind of incredible.

[John Ashbrook]

He's attacking the arch. He's attacking the screw worm.

[Michael Duncan]

He's attacking lady to start with like stop the steel and be like, also he brought the screw back is an insane way to finish.

[John Ashbrook]

Apropos of nothing.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah,

[John Ashbrook]

keyword.

[Sherry Jacobson]

So it's kind of, he's kind of like, he's summarizing like almost like a newsletter. Like those are the three stories kind of maybe that are there at the article.

[John Ashbrook]

Perhaps. Perhaps I'm, I, I don't know that the 1137 viewers of that tweet understood what he was saying. But somebody bookmarked it for later. One person.

[Sherry Jacobson]

I like it but like, I don't know, there's something about seeing Sherry drinking again that I just got a, I got a hat tip. And for that reason, Holmes, you win round two.

[Josh Holmes]

Okay, that's very fair. That's a very fair decision and what I thought was a very mediocre take. Would the champion like to lead off round three?

[Sherry Jacobson]

I don't care if you agree with my take, and also, it's my courtroom. I will instruct the champion to play in round three.

[Josh Holmes]

All I. All I ask is that the. The man who runs the courtroom.

[Michael Duncan]

Technical guys cut his mic.

[Josh Holmes]

Control your courtroom. So I don't have advocates against me.

[John Ashbrook]

Okay, exhibit three, please. 5:28pm On June 9, Bill Crystal, quote, tweeted Gary Kasparov. I, I. The last time I heard Crystal talk about the Russians, it was in the context of the Russians stealing the election for Donald Trump. But here he's, quote, tweeting Garry Kasparov. And I, in keeping with the rules of this court, I will simply describe what Kasparov is alleging, that Trump and people connected to him in the media somehow is part of that, and the courts are somehow a part of that, and they're going to steal everything from you. And Bill Kristol just simply says 100%.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Ah, okay.

[Josh Holmes]

Okay.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, I really limped into round three with that.

[Josh Holmes]

That's something. Exhibit eight, please. This is Sherry Macheri, who is retweeting a extremely distinguished account called Canada Hates Trump that starts with simply three words. Piss, pussy, ass, bitch, and which her comment is. Oh, my. Omg. All caps for the kids. I swear I heard a wet fart as real Donald Trump labored to stand up. And I'm not just saying that as clickbait.

[Michael Duncan]

That's what has become of her, dude. Like, I want to go back to that tweet that he had in the previous round of where she's like, this is $6 wine that tastes like 20 is like, that's, like, down bad arbitrage. You're really stretching the dollars to get wasted because things are not great when you're like, you can get that $20 drunk for six. Like, you make that public. It's good you live like this.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Yeah, I, I think the thing for. For the judge here that's most confounding is, like, it's kind of a funny tweet. Like, and I don't know if that makes it better for this game or makes it worse for this game. Like, the wet fart thing, that's kind of funny. That's kind of funny. And I want to. I don't want to discourage Sherry from drinking and tweeting out stuff like that because it's good content. But does that mean she wins the game?

[Michael Duncan]

The problem is, I think Ashbrook completely lent into round three. He was like, super asleep with it. Like to roll up with an emoji quote, retweet, like, what are you doing here, dude?

[Buck Sexton]

Not a lot of effort.

[Michael Duncan]

You're not here to play.

[Josh Holmes]

Not a lot of effort.

[Sherry Jacobson]

I agree. Sherry. My Sherry wins it in a very close round three.

[Michael Duncan]

And extremely fair.

[Sherry Jacobson]

After all of his whining and crying and he wins. I shouldn't have let him win.

[Josh Holmes]

I care.

[John Ashbrook]

I can't argue with that. I really can't.

[Josh Holmes]

I have overcome the odds and the

[Michael Duncan]

obstacles of justice at pro life more than Holmes wanted.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Yeah, that's true.

[Josh Holmes]

Okay.

[Sherry Jacobson]

That's true.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, I certainly. I certainly had the heavy hand of the bailiff against me. Unbelievable.

[John Ashbrook]

That round one.

[Josh Holmes]

That's just. That should be. That should be disallowed.

[Sherry Jacobson]

You were right. Smug.

[Michael Duncan]

Right.

[Josh Holmes]

I can't wait till I'm judge. I'm going to fuck you guys.

[Sherry Jacobson]

So I literally just let you in.

[Josh Holmes]

You didn't let.

[Sherry Jacobson]

And you're upset about it.

[Josh Holmes]

I won. I won.

[Sherry Jacobson]

I. I reversed my ruling on appeal.

[Buck Sexton]

Impossible.

[Josh Holmes]

It's already been done. Moving on. You guys want some variety? So one thing I think that. I think, Duncan, this was you who. Who flagged this?

[Michael Duncan]

No, I flagged this one.

[Josh Holmes]

The gator.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

Smug flag.

[Josh Holmes]

Smug flagged it. But I know you've been talking about it all week, which is completely hilarious. Sheriff gives an award to an alligator for attacking a DWI suspect. Clip six, please. All right, so this is a clip, if for our audio only, of a gentleman who had fled a. An arrest for suspected DUI and he ran into a swamp, at which point an alligator attacked the man. And it viciously. I mean, you can see it in the water. The man has a gun.

[Michael Duncan]

This is kind of like the Disney cartoon, the. The Peter Pan one where it's like the. The crocodile, like, it was ticking because it had a clock or something. So, like, for audio only listeners, you see this, like, suspect trying to swim, and then they put like a circle on, like, the alligator, like directly going for T Bones to intercept. It was a wonderful thing.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. So the footage showed a Louisiana sheriff in his body cam watching the man who was attacked by this alligator. But what did they do? Because this is a criminal who's absconding from the law. And so what they did in graphic two is award the alligator. The image that we've got for audio only is an AI version, I assume, of an.

[Michael Duncan]

To be clear, for Ashbuck, this is Grok is real.

[Josh Holmes]

An alligator who has received an award from the sheriff's department for apprehending the suspect. He's been brought in. He was spotted driving a Toyota recklessly along an interstate. He was putting people in danger, and now he's been taken care of.

[Sherry Jacobson]

I think the thing I find funniest about this whole story is, like, clearly this guy's at a low point in his life. You know, tough, gets the dwi. On top of that, he gets attacked by a gator. Right? And so, like, if this ain't rock bottom, I don't know what is. Like, maybe it's sherry getting the $6, you know, wine. But, like, to just imagine him once he gets out and pays his bond, going on social media and seeing the sheriff department giving an award to the alligator.

[Josh Holmes]

You tough.

[Sherry Jacobson]

ST would be the funniest thing to

[Josh Holmes]

get a reaction of just a camera to the face. Your reaction, please.

[Michael Duncan]

This is so. This is the wild thing. So I was. My initial take on this was, like, I thought, great job of the police actually going through and, like, filing a report, because, like, if I saw a gator get him, I'd be like, I guess. I guess I'm going. I put the gun back in the holster. I guess, like, justice is jobs done. Don't have to file a report, no paperwork. You know, out for the day, done deal. But it apparently after getting mauled, the dude kept running.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, they hit.

[Michael Duncan]

And the cops had a drone team find him, and they. And they apprehended him. But that's wild.

[Josh Holmes]

But also, yeah, it's worth. It's worth just.

[Michael Duncan]

I mean, he must have been lit to, like, survive the gator mauling.

[Josh Holmes]

And he fought going. He fought it off.

[John Ashbrook]

Maybe he's just an athlete. You know, maybe Elaine Kiffin's gonna be calling this guy.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, I mean, it could be. I mean, the guy's got a hell of a story to tell. St. Charles Parish Sheriff's office ultimately apprehended him. But, you know, I mean, he's an athlete. There's no question about it. You guys want to hear some comments? All right, so on Tuesday, we asked who would win in a fight between Platner and Fetterman. Incredible question, and it was a great question. You guys did not disappoint. Your comments. Comment one, please.

[John Ashbrook]

Okay, first one is from Lisa Marie. Lisa Marie writes, platner should be grateful that Fetterman isn't a home intruder robber, because his fantasy of what he do would not end in his dominance.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Oh, my gosh.

[Josh Holmes]

My gosh. Well, we covered that a bit on Tuesday.

[Sherry Jacobson]

This is when he said he would rape somebody if they broke into his house. But not in a gay way. He would do it to be dominant.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. Not in a gay way.

[Sherry Jacobson]

My God.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, that's a.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Now you can understand why Senate candidate. Yeah, you can understand why AOC needed three butts.

[Michael Duncan]

But.

[John Ashbrook]

But.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, my God. All right. Comment two. Dunks, runs.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Comment two from Christopher McClellan. Christopher writes, Platner would fight dirty. Probably a bite or two. That's a good read of the situation.

[Josh Holmes]

It feels right.

[Sherry Jacobson]

You don't want to meet him in a porto potty.

[John Ashbrook]

He's only fighting himself in there

[Buck Sexton]

in

[Josh Holmes]

a battle royale, as they say. A cage. Real cage match against him.

[Sherry Jacobson]

And a. Oh, no.

[Josh Holmes]

A bishop.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

I'm sorry. Hey, sorry.

[Michael Duncan]

Comment three, Susie Emory. Susie writes, question of the day. I picture Federman holding Platner's head with one hand while Platner is windmilling his arms like a malfunctioning inflatable tube man outside a car dealership.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, it feels right.

[Sherry Jacobson]

I like that visual.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, that's good. That's good. Great comments, as always. We always appreciate it when you like and subscribe to the Ruthless Variety program. We read all of your comments. We really do read all of your comments, even when you're dicks about it. And we get back to the very next episode with the best of the best. And these were some really, really good ones. When we come back, Buck Sexton. You know him, you love him, you've seen him on Fox News and you know him from the radio. He's got a very, very successful radio show. He comes on to talk about his new book right after this.

[John Ashbrook]

Who Helps America Go farther, fly higher, and Dream Even Bigger? People do. Since 1879, our people have been more than a source of energy. They've been a source of progress. Today, that same progress is helping deliver record US Energy production, fueling the workers, the makers, the boundary pushers and risk takers who spark the breakthroughs that move America forward. Learn more about what our people [e-mail] USA250.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, if you're into conservative media, you're going to recognize the voice. Real treat for our audio listeners. You're going to recognize this voice, but you're going to recognize his face, too. Buck Sexton. How are you, sir?

[Buck Sexton]

Hey, man, I'm good now. I feel like I need to really up my game. That amazing, amazing intro. Sorry, I'm a little sweaty. I know your podcast people are. I mean, your, your video People on YouTube are going to notice it but

[Josh Holmes]

they're going to be disappointed.

[Buck Sexton]

The swamp is swampy, actually. I walk, like, 10 blocks, and I look like I was, you know, fleeing a tiger for my life or something.

[Josh Holmes]

Plus, they kind of boxed in the White House, so you got to go up and around now. And there's a lot of, you know,

[Buck Sexton]

what is going on here, guys? I was hearing all kinds of weird music on the street. Is this, like. Is this just the way things are? Is this a Millie Vanilli getting ready for the 215? I had to explain this to my wife by, like, first of all, she's a little younger than me, so at first she heard me talking about this, and I was like. I was like, you know, Milli Vanilli. And then I felt bad because I was like, I think it's just vanilla, actually.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Just one or just Millie? Just one of the two, because one of them is no longer with us. I said, you know, they're going to be playing this. I keep saying they. He. On behalf of Milli Vanilli is going to be plugged the show. And. And they stepped out. Like, they backed out before we could even make fun of this, really.

[Josh Holmes]

I know. Which. It was tough. We've tried to work through this here on the program because it wasn't just Milli Vanilli. I mean, you had a real long list of material to work with.

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, Millie was particularly exciting for me to see. Although. Although CNC Music Factory brings me right back to the 90s, you know, to, like, an era of jock jams. Yeah. Jock jams. Like, that was my, like, high school Catholic league basketball team, like, getting warmed up with CNC Music Factory on in the background.

[Josh Holmes]

Sure.

[Buck Sexton]

So it was a real throwback.

[Sherry Jacobson]

If you really want to get depressed about that lineup as it exists, other than just making fun of it. If you go back and you look at the 1976, you know, bicentennial music lineup, and it's like, Peter Frampton.

[John Ashbrook]

Yes.

[Sherry Jacobson]

I think Elvis did a show, really, as well. And you look at it, and you're just like, what?

[Buck Sexton]

Oh, no.

[Sherry Jacobson]

We got the people who lip synced. Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Breaking news here on the ruthless variety program. The Kenosha Kickers will also not be in attendance, unfortunately. Buck, listen, you've been a busy man. Obviously, you've got your day job you're working hard at, and everybody's listening to you. But you've written a book.

[Buck Sexton]

I did.

[John Ashbrook]

Yes.

[Buck Sexton]

And I actually wrote it, which I like to point out.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Because I'm. I'm somebody who Openly disagrees with this thing of particularly people who work in Commentary. So you're paid for your thoughts. You just write some rando ten grand or fifteen grand, and they write a book for you. And also in the era of AI, I'm like, why don't we just skip the middle man here, just like AI their whole book and pretend like I wrote a book. It's 300 pages and you're reading through this, like, oh, AI slop cool.

[Josh Holmes]

Then you take like 200 hours to do it. You're like, who's the sucker here?

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of. That's making me sad. Took me over. Over a year to write. Took the CIA about 5 months to clear it. Because there is some. I've never really talked about some of the CIA stuff. But the book before. Before the book, like, the opening chapter is in Nigeria, which was my first CIA abroad assignment, which had, at the time it was classified. I wasn't allowed to. They cleared it all. And so I was able. Not all, but they cleared at least me talking about it a little bit. And it's all in the context of answering the question, like, how are people going so completely insane.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Abroad and here. And the political implications of this. And it comes a little bit out of COVID which I was talking to your esteemed co host about right before we stepped up here, because the part of. The part of COVID and it's not a Covid book. I always have to say that because, like, no one buys. No one buys Covid books, which is really nobody wants to hear about anymore, which I actually am kind of shocked by. And then disagree with that premise. I think we should go really deep into it and figure out what the

[Josh Holmes]

hell happened so we don't do.

[Buck Sexton]

So we don't ever do it again. But they would do it again. There were people wearing masks today at the airport on my way up here. And more people. Yeah. And more people wearing masks, certainly the D.C. airport than in Miami, where I'm from.

[Josh Holmes]

So do you think that's like the mice shit thing or what is it? Yeah, yeah.

[Sherry Jacobson]

I think it's just people.

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, the virus thing is pretty straightforward. Like, don't seem pretty straightforward. Don't breathe in mouse poop. And you're good. Like, there's a reason this is a really, really rare thing and not particularly transmissible. Like, you just got to avoid, like, mouse droppings to the greatest possible degree. So that, I don't think is what's pushing it. I think it's Just people. I think people were trained to believe that other people and their breath is yucky, and they don't want to be subjected to their yucky breathing. And so they put on these stupid masks, was actually do nothing because you're just breathing in the same area anyway. I'm getting deeper into the COVID side of it, but what. What bothered me so much was that it wasn't just there was like, the machine that was wrong. It was all the people around me, including people that I thought even if we disagreed on stuff, maybe you're. You're normal enough to see, right. That we shouldn't be cutting holes out. So we put the clarinet through it for band practice for kids at school. Like you're normal enough to say. Then the answer was no. And I said, well, it's not just that, though, because now we have people saying that, like, men can have vaginas. And putting aside any Democrat candidates for Senate for a moment, the fact of the matter is that generally speaking, that is not true. Men cannot have vaginas and things on. Whether it's climate change, the belief that black men are being murdered by police by the thousands every year, without. These are delusions. And the book is manufacturing delusion. And I look into. Really, it's like the science of propaganda, in a sense, if you will, or how you get people to believe crazy things. And why. I believe that's the biggest challenge we face, much bigger than anything else, especially as technology becomes increasingly more powerful and communication becomes universal, instantaneous, and, you know, a tool of.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, Of. Of. Of.

[Buck Sexton]

Of control as well as a tool of connection. So that's. That's sort of the basis of the book. And it's done. It's done.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, let's start. Before we get into the meat of the book, let's just start a little bit about your background for people who don't know, probably very few, but some here in our listening audience have probably no idea your backdrop and as to what your CIA expertise might be. Maybe just a little overview.

[Buck Sexton]

I really appreciate that, by the way, because I feel like here in D.C. i'm in the one city where no one's impressed by. I work for the CIA. They're like, oh, yeah, my neighbor works there. Guy's kind of a loser like that. Really. Like in D.C. you know, this was always a thing I had to deal with. I was like, oh, okay.

[Sherry Jacobson]

You know, Buck, if you waterboard Ashbrook, I will be impressed.

[Buck Sexton]

There we go.

[Josh Holmes]

Thank you.

[John Ashbrook]

That won't break.

[Buck Sexton]

He looks like he would hold out for quite a while.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Smug maybe, maybe. I think he would, he would send you down the river, but I think this guy might hold out. So. Yeah, no, I joined the CIA after I went to Amherst College and. And 911 happened my sophomore year. It was actually my first week of Arabic class when 911 happened. So I had already had this purely intellectual interest in the Middle east. And my idea had been I'll kind of learn about this area and maybe it'll transfer into consulting or finance, the usual pathways. And then 911 happens and I'm like, oh, wow. Okay. And honestly, I had grown up loving two authors, like the works of two authors. And they were Tom Clancy and Michael Crichton.

[Sherry Jacobson]

There it is.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

And it's so. I wish we could bring Tom back. Actually Michael too, he died of cancer some years ago. I wish we could bring him back just so he could see so many people join the CIA. Not just because Tom Clancy's books were all about, you know, badass special operations and all this other stuff, but Jack Ryan is a CIA analyst.

[John Ashbrook]

Right.

[Buck Sexton]

So you're like, well this could be really cool. Like I get to be suave, cool, handsome and do badass things. It turns out there's like a lot of meetings and TPS reports, a lot more spreadsheet analysis and Nerd dome. You know, there's a lot of people sitting in rooms like we should change

[Josh Holmes]

this word for the pdb.

[Buck Sexton]

It's like it's a preposition. I promise you the President's not going to start a nuclear war if we change the one word. Because that's a thing that actually people argue about there. So yeah, it's. There was some. I always tell people my experience at the CIA and I think I was there at what most people would university agree is like the most interesting time. Just because you had Iraq, Afghanistan and the whole gwat. I mean it was the gwad era. So I was there 2005 to. I resigned officially in 2011. And yeah, I, I just remember there was a lot of stuff going on and we had a real sense of mission and then it sort of started to fade into the Obama years and I was like, I've had a. Yeah, I'm done here. I've had my fill.

[Josh Holmes]

What do you think?

[Michael Duncan]

Great.

[Sherry Jacobson]

What do you make of this latest story out of the CIA about this agent, Special Agent.

[Josh Holmes]

The 40m.

[Sherry Jacobson]

40m in gold bullion which is like 650 pounds.

[Buck Sexton]

So. So since you are DC based, I tell you, always, always call them an officer, not an agent. They love to. They love to. Correct. FBI has agents, CIA has officers. I'm going to do it on purpose. Now, you can if you want to, like, you know, give them a noogie, go for it. But yeah, the CI goes, excuse me, we don't, you know, we're officers, not agents. And yeah, I'm really sad that I missed the program where you get to take $40 million of gold bars home.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

You know what I'm saying? Which, which when you. I did the math on it, I think it was 600 pounds of gold, which. Something like that, right? 600 plus pounds of gold. And when you think about that, it's like, debt's heavy, but not, not if you take it in batches. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's not really like a couple of bars at a time. But I, I just wonder when he was signing the requisition forms or whatever for this. I wonder if he got really creative, you know, with how he was, you know, he's like, you know what? I finally, I finally figured out how we're gonna get, you know, Vladimir Putin to give himself up. Or like, what are you doing with all this? Well, you gotta come up with a

[Josh Holmes]

hell of a bullshit story to, to walk out with $40 million, right?

[Buck Sexton]

You would think so.

[Sherry Jacobson]

No, it's classified.

[Buck Sexton]

Although one thing I can't tell you. I think that by the way, by Manufacturing Delusion is a fantastic book. Yeah, we're going to get back to. No, no, I know, Trust me. I went through, like. I want to talk about waterboarding everyone I know who's ever written a book like, waterboarded me with. You have to be relentless to sell you. You have to say the name like 10 times. No one remembers the name of your book. Selling books, by the way, is impossible unless you're, you know, a handful of people who are like really big established authors. Selling books is super hard. Where was I before I started selling my book? Oh, gold. Talk about selling things. By the way, who's your gold sponsor? Guys, the long term thesis remains strong. Don't be scared. Don't be scared off by the run up in gold. Gold is good gold. I'm actually a gold holder. I've had gold for. I've had gold for many, many years now. I'm actually going out of the read. I actually am a believer in gold. But yeah, I think the, the agency is part of a broader, like, I think people forgot way too quickly how horrified Elon was by what he just saw going on in the government. And it was a little bit like the COVID thing of it's so awful what happened or what's going on. Like, let's just never talk about this again. I think Elon looked at the books and was just like, like, you've got got to be kidding me. Like, like, like, like, like this cannot be how the government does things. And I give you something. People always talk about these Somalis, There's a Somali Americans, there's a doctor, I think it was in California, this just a few weeks ago, who billed like $250 million of medicine that was never actually given to anybody. Yeah, I mean $2.5 million, I mean that's fraud. But like, you know, I can see that flying. $250 million, you would think it's a, like, like that. What that tells you is that there is no process whatsoever by which these people are stopped. And the process to catch them takes about five to ten years.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, totally.

[Buck Sexton]

And in the meantime you can be, you know, driving around in your roles, lighting your cigars with thousand dollar bills and like that's just how you roll, you know, sending, sending someone back to Mogadish.

[Josh Holmes]

No, I mean it's, it's, it's, it's horrifying.

[John Ashbrook]

Buck. I want to turn back to manufacturing delusion because you open the book talking about the beginning of your career and talking about these kids in Nigeria who are rad by propaganda and everything else. And fast forward to today after the Biden administration, you had so many military age men walking across the southern border waiting for an opportunity to pounce against us here in America. And there is so much left wing propaganda coming in from China and all these other countries overseas. And I just wonder if you are seeing some of the same trends here domestically today that you saw overseas back when you started your career. Career.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, absolutely. And I think that the. So I look at, I try to structure the book so that there's a piece of it that is the sort of history and science of, and more into the history side of it, because it is. But there's stuff on Pavlov that I think is really interesting. The beginnings of the understanding of how to manipulate people's minds or what they call in psychologist circles and cult detransitioning people and all this, we'll call it coercive persuasion. So the idea is you're still actively participating in this. It's not like a Clockwork Orange or it's not actually changing your brainwaves or something. You're actively participating in this. But there are ways to prey upon human weakness and particularly the weakness of the mind. And this is why in interrogations, they do things like keep you up, no sleep, light, darkness changes, loud noises, confusion, Alice in Wonderland approach, all these different things that they do because that takes the physiological. And then when you add to that that the just pure information, propaganda component of it, someone's much more malleable to this. Right? So there's a whole spectrum. There's the. Sorry. And the other piece of this is what's going on today, which is what I wanted to get to. And within what we see in America is we don't have. And I get into things like how they did brainwashing. You actually learn the origins of brainwashing, which I think far more people should know. Like, where does the term come from and how does this. Because we use it all the time in modern parlance. But I look at how they did in the Soviet Union, how they did it in Communist China, and really one borrows from the other. The Chinese were an offshoot of Stalinism in the Chinese Communist Party. And then North Korea, where they've obviously made it kind of even beyond. I think Hitchens line about it was that it's like someone read 1984 and like, let's try this. That's kind of North Korea, right? And it exists still today. And China's not really that far behind. And that's where you have massive state coercion. And you can obviously create situations where millions of people either are affirming things that they know to be untrue or are too frightened and believe things to be untrue, which is the basis of all this stuff, the forced belief or believing things that are flatly untrue. And then what I see in America is pockets of this happening to people. And I will say there's some of this. Now people ask me, and I think it's a fair criticism, except it's unfair when you understand the timeline of a book. They're like, why haven't you addressed any of the really crazy conspiracy stuff on the right? I said, well, because I started writing this two years ago. And a lot of the stuff that has really caught on since then has obviously been after I submitted the manuscript. But I've started to see some of this on the right. And it's interesting. You'll even see some figures in the right who all of a sudden sound like they're on the left and they're agreeing on some of these things. Yeah, I think everybody should, if they have it. And you see that happening. And that's the manufactured delusion framework. First of all, the history in the book is necessary, I think, for anybody to read. And it's meant to be very readable. And they cut almost 100 pages that I wanted to include in this and all kinds of stuff. Did you guys know that lemmings don't commit suicide? I had a whole thing about this. Everybody thinks that lemmings commit suicide. And if you learn nothing else from this podcast, let me tell you, you think about that for a second. Really? A whole species of mammals, like, let's kill ourselves. Like, no, this is not a thing it comes from. And this will sound bs it is absolutely true. The whole notion of lemmings committed. There used to be. Lemmings grow very quickly in population size and they can move and migrate. And so people be like, oh, where do the lemmings go? And they're kind of, you know, urban legend about they all disappear. They didn't disappear, they moved. And they can breed very quickly. So the populations, you know, they look like they're like little furry rodents looking things with their rodents.

[Josh Holmes]

And.

[Buck Sexton]

And so Disney made a documentary, I think it was in the 60s, called like great White North. And they had heard this and they bought a bunch of lemmings and they like shoved them off a cliff, like into the water for this, like, dramatic scene, whatever. And then everyone just assumed the lemmings commit mass suicide. And that's why this is what comes from. It's a completely. But I cite this in the book for there are all these things that if you look at even the way that we view a whole range of different things, either historically or in present, where people are afraid to question. And when they do question, they fall back on things that immediately you'll say, but your rationalization makes no sense. Why would you believe it? Again, lemmings thing isn't important in the context of the book. That's one fun thing that they cut out.

[Josh Holmes]

But it's all kind of like the. I guess the point is it's all kind of that south park underpants gnome thing where you've got a premise and you got a conclusion and then somehow those two connect.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Well, but I can understand it in an era like the 1960s where we have a monoculture and you watch this documentary from Disney and you're like, okay, well, lemmings clearly jumped off this cliff. They commit suicide. What I have a harder time understanding is in the year of our Lord 2026, where everyone has a computer in their hand and the Internet that people still fall for things that are not true. But it's like a double edged sword, I would assume, where it's like, there's something for everybody, there's more information, and people can also choose their own adventure.

[Buck Sexton]

So this is critical and it's a thread in the book as well, because one of the things that I had to. And the publisher, Penguin Random House, to their credit, really wanted me to have this very nailed down. They're like, so you're talking about, say, what the Chinese called thought reform. We get the term brainwashing from Chinese thought reform, although it's an Americanized neologism based on a translation of the Mandarin, which was. People would say, oh, that person has wash brain. Right? Wash brain is what happened to you through the thought reform process of the Maoist revolution. And then an American journalist who some people said maybe had some other ties, named Edward Hunter, came up with this term brainwashing, actually wrote about it, I think in a Miami Herald editorial. And then it just became this thing. Richard Condon's Manchurian Candidate came out and that became even bigger. People don't realize. Richard Condon's Manchurian Candidate. There's a whole historical precedent of what happened in the Korean War where he had this group called the turncoats, who were Americans captured by the Communists. Chinese slash North Koreans. It's kind of. And they decided that they were actually going to stay. Even after the war. We did a big exchange of prisoners. The Korean War is a fascinating conflict that still haunts us to this day in many ways. Obviously you look at the Korean peninsula and people don't know enough about. But it was interesting. A lot of the prisoners that we had were like, no, we're good, we'll go somewhere else. They didn't really want to go back, obviously, to North Korea, China. The turncoats actually said these were Americans who were like, nah, we're going to. And they had been used for like the worst kind of propaganda during the war. They went on radio and said Americans were spreading bubonic plague and anthrax or whatever it was. I mean, spreading around like the worst kinds of diseases and all this stuff. Stuff. So they were useful idiots on the propaganda side. And then they wanted to stay. And it's like, well, how could anybody, how could that happen? How could you think, knowing what, you know, growing up as an American and then you get the Manchurian Candidate idea of people that would be sort of trained and would be sleeper agents here in the West. And so that was one thing. Like, I wanted to sort of establish how extreme the system can be. But then I look at. In this country, there are these similar threads. We don't have a gulag system, but, for example, confession, forced confession.

[John Ashbrook]

Right.

[Buck Sexton]

Confession under duress. We do things like land acknowledgments. We do things like, state your privilege right today. And this will be on college campuses. This is in America today. And if you just do this.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

You know, like, we know it's weird, and we know that there's something really off about it, but it actually has a very clear history and a very clear purpose if you understand the background to coercive persuasion. When you see, for example, in the Soviet Union during the Stalinist show trials, people are familiar with the show trials. People don't stop to necessarily think, well, hold on a second. Why were there show trials? This guy was liquidating people left and right. Like, what's the point? If you can just have someone executed? Why go through this? And it was because Stalin was able to show. And I talk about one of the trials, a guy named Sergei Meratchkovsky, so that he could break people so thoroughly through this process of what they did in prison to them that they would come out in a courtroom confessing to crimes that they could not have committed and willing to turn in anyone additionally and begging for their own execution. You know, and so when you see that someone is that broken, there's an obvious tool in the toolbox right there. New tool in the toolbox. And forced confession is very powerful because it undermines that individual's understanding of reality.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Exactly.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

If you're. If you're willing to lie about what you did, I mean, everything else, then. I mean, and by the way, this is why even I even really get after the. The say that the preferred pronoun thing. Absolutely not. You can change your name. You cannot change your pronouns. Because you're asking me to be a part of a lie. There's a reason they want you to do that. There's a reason why they will pretend that it's about courtesy. It's not about courtesy. It's about control. And so, yes, I understand. Again, you're not being forced to confess. You know, when we do land acknowledgments before, like, a city council meeting, there's not a firing squad outside. But some of these tactics have a clear historical precedent and similarity, and you see it in a whole range of things today.

[Josh Holmes]

I think that it's a real burden being buck, you research a book like this and obviously your professional background. But then you, like, just go on X and you see what the left is up to. And like, I got to imagine you spend like 10 minutes on there, and you're like a beautiful mind. Connecting the string to the dots and the. I mean, it's gotta be exhausting. Cause it's everywhere.

[Buck Sexton]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

It's literally everywhere.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah. Well, one thing that we've. We hadn't. I don't think anyone anticipated how much the sort of instantaneous gratification of the click, the attention. And not only would that be such a driver of online discourse, but also I think how much people would go along with it. And then they dig in. And this. I get into cults a little bit in the book too. Cult stuff is fascinating to me.

[Josh Holmes]

Can you tell us how to start one? We're interested.

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, your followers are pretty dedicated. Like, I've seen, you know, like, you know, I was like, I don't know, man. It's like people. People love that smug guy. Like, I see. I'm not sure ladies are throwing their bras at the stage, but I mean, you guys have. Have definitely got your people. So here on the cold side of things, what's fascinating about that is you create essentially a totalitarian dynamic within a free society. So in a totalitarian society, they can do whatever they want to try to mold your perception, your thinking, and they have the massive threat of force behind that. That's Communist China, the Soviet Union, go down, Cuba, go down. The list of all these different things. Okay, what happens? How is it that in a place like Japan, you had educated professionals joining this cult? Aum shinriky rikyo.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Yeah.

[Buck Sexton]

Which is. You're gonna like the book, buddy. I'm telling you. I'm telling you, this guy's gonna like it.

[Sherry Jacobson]

They did the attack on the.

[Buck Sexton]

On their subway station, the sarin gas attack on the subway station system. They were actively researching more biological agents than just that and wanted to actually kill the entire world. Their leader had convinced them that you had to essentially destroy the world in order to save it and bring about the nirvana that will come when all humanity is gone. And they were actively researching and working toward effectively being able to kill everybody.

[Josh Holmes]

That's wild.

[Buck Sexton]

And these were educated Japanese, obviously, Post World War II, you don't have the emperor kamikaze thing going on. And they were willing to pay $15,000 for a cup of his bath water. I mean, all this crazy stuff. This is a free country with educated people who have access to alternative information. But then you see, one of the chapters in the book is isolation. And you can isolate people physically in a totalitarian society, right? You can lock them in a cell, the clock. Classic stuff we all think about. You know, you put them in the tiger cage and beat them with sticks until they say whatever you want them to, to make it stop. But people can also be encouraged to self isolate within a free society. And this is actually a lot of what you saw from information flow, if nothing else, a lot of what you saw in, for example, in Nazi Germany and people who were susceptible to Nazi propaganda, they, even though they're in this very vibrant intellectual cultural hub of Germany, which I know post World War I had a lot of problems. Problems. They convinced themselves that they were under a state of siege, essentially as individuals, as a culture, as a country, as a fatherland, all this stuff. And Hannah Arendt, who wrote the Origins of Totalitarianism, among other. Eichmann in Jerusalem, other books, she talked about something called atomized subjects. Being individuals who are essentially psychologically isolated from. It doesn't matter if you're in the most crowded city block of Shanghai. You can, if you are cut off from external, if you're cut off from competing influences, if you cut off family and friends, if you cut off religious and relationship with God, you can do these things to somebody. And by the way, the big piece of this from my career is of course, the jihadist isolation. People will read or they'll watch enough Anra Al Aulaqi video in a basement in Nutley, New Jersey and be like, you know what? I got to go to Syria and blow myself up. How does that process happen? And that's part of the radicalization spectrum, is part of what I did in the book. Look, there's going to be more. There's going to be more and follow up to it because there's so many things that it touches on that I think are really important. But just this main one is the importance of, and kind of the concluding part of the book is, is just look, live not by lies, which is the Solzhenitsyn, the famous Solzhenitsyn lie, I'm sorry line. Live not by lies. And the moment that someone is pushing you to accept lies and particularly to mouth them, there is always a problem.

[Josh Holmes]

Ah, it's really well said. Really well said. I can't wait to read this book. Manufacturing Delusion. Assume you can get it anywhere.

[Buck Sexton]

Yes, yes, Amazon is a great place. We sold out on Amazon three times in the first like two weeks, which was cool. Thank you.

[John Ashbrook]

Thank You.

[Michael Duncan]

But as.

[Buck Sexton]

As far funny, because I kept getting all these calls from my listeners who were like, you know, my local bookstore, like, they have, like, 50 books from some goddamn communist. And I was like, buddy, I love you, but I was like. I was like, look, goddamn communist. He's got way too many books up there. We gotta. We gotta get some Buck Sexton books. But I really think people will. Will enjoy it. I mean, people. It's the funniest thing that I've gotten is how many people are like, you're a radio guy, right? And they're like, the book's actually good, Which I'll take it. But there's definitely part of me that's like, wow.

[Guest or External Clip Speaker]

Okay.

[Buck Sexton]

Like, oh, excuse me.

[Josh Holmes]

Interesting line of work you've chosen for a smart guy. Buck, I can't thank you enough. This is very fun. Come back anytime you're in town. We love to have you guys. Big fans of everything you guys do.

[Buck Sexton]

Thank you so much, man. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[John Ashbrook]

I mean, just a great conversation. This guy is obviously very smart and has a lot to contribute. And when you turn him on the radio, you don't. You don't necessarily know right away that this is somebody who worked to keep our nation safe for as long as he did. And I think this book is well worth reading because he points out a lot of stuff. We didn't even get to all of it in the interview. He points out so much stuff. And I have not started it yet, but I intend to this weekend.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Yeah, me too. I mean, the stuff he was saying about the cult stuff, honestly, he did

[Josh Holmes]

really lit a fire underneath the old man. You guys noticed that?

[Sherry Jacobson]

Well, he mentioned, um, Shinriki, which a lot of people don't know. Know this happened in Japan.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sherry Jacobson]

But it was one of the most infamous cults, like, in history. This guy. Yeah. Shoko Asahara, who was sort of the ringleader of this entire thing. They did that sarin gas attack in the Tokyo metro system. Like, culture is fascinating. That's really why I want to read this.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, he likes it. He's trying to start his own cult.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Me?

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, man.

[Josh Holmes]

I feel like it.

[Michael Duncan]

It's worth a shot.

[Josh Holmes]

You're slow rolling it a little bit.

[Sherry Jacobson]

Well, that's key.

[John Ashbrook]

Wait till you hear the idea.

[Josh Holmes]

I absolutely love it. Remember our question of the day? What would a Dem candidate have to do to get Dra dropped by the national party at this day and age? I don't know. I don't know. But I bet you guys have better ideas than I do. And when you like and subscribe, we'll read absolutely all of them and get back to you on Fun Time Friday.

[Sherry Jacobson]

No, it's going to be a good one.

[Josh Holmes]

It's going to be a good one. So, like, subscribe. Check out the channel. Check out some merch while you're there. We got some good stuff. And with that, fellas, I think we did it.

[Michael Duncan]

I think so. Absolute banger of an episode. Gentlemen, thank you so much for our guest book, Sexton, and thank you to the listeners. Remember, if you have not yet, go to the YouTube and hit that subscribe because it's more fun in video. So until next time, minions, keep the fish, hold the line and own the lips. We'll see you on Friday. Stay ruthless.