Why Democrats Caved On The Shutdown

Summary

Ruthless Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode: Why Democrats Caved On The Shutdown
Date: November 11, 2025
Hosts: Josh Holmes, Michael Duncan, John Ashbrook
Absent: Comfortably Smug (“on assignment”)

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Overview

This episode of Ruthless delivers a characteristically sharp and irreverent breakdown of the recent government shutdown and the Democratic response post-2025 election. The hosts revel in having predicted the outcome, lampoon Democratic leaders—especially Chuck Schumer—for what they describe as a political, rather than substantive, maneuver. The team also plays audio clips to illustrate media coverage and political maneuvering, before switching gears for segments on the animal kingdom and, in the final half, an in-depth, lively interview with Kevin Keene, President of the American Beverage Association. The episode closes with sports banter and feedback from listeners.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Democrats’ Shutdown Strategy and 'Cave' (00:00–09:24)

• The hosts open with a victory lap, claiming foresight into Senate Democrats’ eventual cave on the shutdown.
• They contend Democrats had no real demands and engineered the shutdown simply to push past the election, painting it as a political move to protect Chuck Schumer’s leadership.
• Quote:
  “They didn't get any of them. They didn't get a single one of these demands. What they did get was a shutdown that extended beyond election day, which I think is what they really wanted.”
  —Michael Duncan [00:14]
• Ashbrook asserts the entire exercise was to “save Chuck Schumer's career.” [00:44]
• Holmes frames the Democrats’ public narrative around “restoring the pride of making products here at home,” tying this to American workers—a theme that will resurface in the later interview. [00:49]

2. Media Coverage and Narrative Shifts (04:13–08:12)

• The hosts play clips from MSNBC and CNN, highlighting what they say is the media’s tardy acknowledgment of a “Democratic filibuster.”
• Quote:
  “We only find out that it's a Democratic filibuster once it's been broken.”
  —John Ashbrook [07:23]
• They accuse outlets of running cover for Democrats, “flummoxed” by how the facts were spun to the public.

3. The Predictability of Democratic Maneuvers (08:12–12:19)

• Holmes and Ashbrook rehash the show’s past predictions, reinforcing their claim of political inevitability.
• The segment references earlier guest appearances, including Senator John Thune discussing Schumer’s balancing act with the left wing.
• Audio reminisces about early warnings of a shutdown (“the light that was blinking shutdown had been blinking for months and months” —John Ashbrook [11:19]).

4. Election Timing and the Meaning(lessness) of the Shutdown (12:50–17:19)

• Ashbrook predicted the shutdown would end right after the Virginia election, advising listeners to “consider a date after Virginia’s election on November 4th.” [12:50]
• Post-election, the hosts deride the “deal” as entirely empty, listing the Democrats’ original demands (ACA subsidies, Medicaid reforms, public broadcasting funding), noting none made it into the agreement.
• Quote:
  “It’s almost as if nothing fucking happened at all.”
  —Josh Holmes [16:19]
• They posit federal employee anger in Virginia and the election as pivotal in Democratic timing.

5. Inside the Democratic Conference: Tim Kaine’s Admitted Priorities (18:58–23:19)

• An audio cut features a Virginia senator (implied Tim Kaine) openly focusing on the election rather than worker pay during the shutdown.
• Kaine admits, “I was so focused on elections. I wasn’t in this discussion on the health care…” [19:39]
• The hosts ridicule the admission, with Ashbrook noting, “Just very brazen overall to be like, I was more focused on this election than my job while none of you got paid...” [21:49]
• They frame this as emblematic of a leadership void in the Democratic Party, reliant on symbiosis with media and activist left.

6. Democratic Infighting: Schumer’s Perilous Position (23:19–31:54)

• The hosts discuss progressive calls for Chuck Schumer to step down (highlighting Ro Khanna’s statement), lampoon progressive belief there was ever a true policy fight.
• Holmes observes how Schumer attempts to pose as a leftist by voting against reopening the government, trying to outflank AOC.
• Quote:
  “He tricked AOC out of running... I think AOC will now say, I’m not running in a primary against you, Chuck Schumer, because you’re an actual left wing leader for this country...”
  —Michael Duncan [28:14]
• Broader discussion follows about the tension all Congressional leaders face between grassroots demands and feasible action, but the show sharply critiques Schumer for “conceding that you have no power whatsoever to effectuate your desired outcome.” [29:49]
• The hosts pose the “Question of the Day”: How long will Chuck Schumer last as leader? [31:54]

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Notable Media & Cultural Segments

7. Animal Kingdom Chaos (32:01–42:33)

• The team segues into a bizarre NPR story: rats attacking bats in Germany, raising concerns about virus transmission.
• Quote:
  “What people see as a delicate dance between a winged and a land rat. I see the casual indifference of nature.”
  —John Ashbrook, as Werner Herzog [41:20]
• The segment blends dark humor, biohazard anxieties, and a (humorous) impromptu Werner Herzog impression.

8. American Culture Abroad: NFL in Germany (42:33–44:38)

• The hosts comment on Germans enthusiastically singing “Country Road” at an NFL game in Berlin’s Olympic Stadium, reflecting on American cultural dominance—juxtaposed with historical references to the stadium.
• “America wins!” —Michael Duncan [43:40]

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Feature Interview: Kevin Keene, President of the American Beverage Association (45:02–61:14)

a. American Jobs and Manufacturing

• Keene details the soft drink industry’s expansion, pointing to 24 new facilities and $1.3 billion in new investment across the country.
• “We're American companies making American products with American workers in America's hometowns.” —Kevin Keene [45:26]

b. Market Innovation and Health

• The discussion covers the beverage industry’s pivot to healthier, low- or no-sugar options—sparked by consumer demand, not regulation.
• “60% of what Americans buy actually put a dollar down for has zero sugar in it right now.” —Kevin Keene [50:26]

c. Transparency and Consumer Tools

• Keene announces the “goodtoknowfacts.org” website: a resource for consumers to research product ingredients, their use, nomenclature across regions, and regulatory assessments.
• “Our role was to put down the basics. So this is a good first stop for a consumer looking for more information.” —Kevin Keene [55:01]

d. Community Roots and Reputation

• Keene emphasizes community ties through networked, often family-owned bottlers, local sponsorships, and economic impact.

e. Football Fandom & Parting Gifts

• The interview wraps with Vikings fandom chatter and Keene gifting Holmes Vikings merch.

f. Final Commentary

• The hosts praise Keene’s industry as responsive to both criticism and consumer preference, contrasting market dynamics with top-down regulation.

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Memorable Quotes and Moments (with Timestamps & Attribution)

• “It was entirely a political exercise to save Chuck Schumer’s career.”
  —John Ashbrook [00:44]
• “We only find out that it’s a Democratic filibuster once it’s been broken.”
  —John Ashbrook [07:23]
• “It’s almost as if nothing fucking happened at all.”
  —Josh Holmes [16:19]
• “Just very brazen overall to be like, I was more focused on this election than my job while none of you got paid...”
  —John Ashbrook [21:49]
• “If you’re a leader of one of the two parties and your way out is conceding that you have no power whatsoever... not good, Bob.”
  —Josh Holmes [29:49]
• “They are making a choice as free consumers to pursue a different type of product. And what you’re describing is an industry that’s responsive to that first and foremost and not like a government telling you what to make and what not to make.”
  —Michael Duncan [52:20]
• “What people see as a delicate dance between a winged and a land rat. I see the casual indifference of nature.”
  —John Ashbrook, as Werner Herzog [41:20]
• “America wins.”
  —Josh Holmes / Michael Duncan [43:40]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------------------|--------------| | Dems’ shutdown cave & media coverage | 00:00–08:12 | | Calls to Schumer’s leadership and shutdown predictions | 08:12–17:19 | | Tim Kaine & Dem priorities revealed | 18:58–23:19 | | Progressive dissent v. Schumer: Ro Khanna, conference rifts| 23:19–31:54 | | Animal Kingdom & Werner Herzog impression | 32:01–42:33 | | NFL in Germany / “America” segment | 42:33–44:38 | | Kevin Keene ABA Interview (jobs, transparency, Maha) | 45:02–61:14 |

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Tone & Style

The episode embodies Ruthless’ trademark: sarcastic, brutal but well-informed conservative analysis, with recurring bravado over “calling it,” ridicule of Democratic leaders, and a breezy, conversational style. Banter about the animal kingdom, cultural moments, and sports ensures the show stays energetic and audience-friendly—even in policy-heavy segments.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

• The hosts drive home their interpretation of the shutdown and Democrats’ political calculus, bolstered by clips and in-studio debate.
• Media complicity and narrative-flipping are thoroughly roasted.
• The second half turns to lighter fare—animal chaos, European culture clash, and a surprisingly substantive, user-friendly discussion of beverage industry innovation and consumer transparency.
• The touchpoints for policy, politics, and pop culture are all here, making for a balanced “variety progrum” as advertised.

Don’t miss Thursday’s follow-up teasing “the Democratic civil war”—the hosts hint at ongoing drama and fresh audio fodder.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Josh Holmes]

Over the weekend, Senate Democrats caved and they basically did what we said that they were going to do, which is post election 2025, figure out a way to get back to the point where they're going to open up the government again.

[Michael Duncan]

I think we're going to get to the list of their demands. We're going to delineate all of this. They didn't get any of them. They didn't get a single one of these demands. What they did get was a shutdown that extended beyond election day, which I think is what they really wanted to.

[Josh Holmes]

Get on Obamacare was crazy. This was. That's the reason that they made up at some level to try to make it seem to the American people that they had a greater goal.

[John Ashbrook]

No, it was entirely a political exercise to save Chuck Schumer's career.

[Josh Holmes]

You know, our nation is standing up for American workers, restoring the pride of making products here at home. That's what we do every day. We're America's beverage companies. Making America American products with American workers in America's hometowns delivering brands that have been enjoyed for generations, creating good paying jobs, the kind that require only a strong work ethic. Because we believe in the promise of America and the people who make it great.

[Announcer]

Ladies and gentlemen, your attention please.

[Josh Holmes]

Keep the fate, hold the line and own the lids.

[Michael Duncan]

It's time for our main event.

[Josh Holmes]

Good Tuesday to you. Welcome back to the Ruthless variety program. And happy Veterans Day to all the veterans out there. Not without acknowledgment of our own veteran here, Lee Wolf in the studio. Yeah, we're all very thankful to this service and the fact that we probably wouldn't be able to do this kind of thing if it wasn't for folks like that. So very happy Veterans Day. I know we had kind of an unconventional end of the week last week. Cause we were up at the Patriot Awards. And big thanks to Fox, Fox Nation for hosting us. A hell of an experience, wasn't it fellas?

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, no, dude, it sure was. And I'd be remiss to say Lee Wolf, here's a guy. United States Marine Corps. Yesterday was the birthday of the United States Marine Corps, which he reminded us on multiple occasions. And here we are. Not quite from the halls of Montezum, but we are gonna do Lee Wolf proud.

[Josh Holmes]

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I'm Josh Holmes along with Michael Duncan and John Ashbrook, comfortably smug on assignment today. But I think we're going to wait our way through a whole bunch of things.

[John Ashbrook]

Well, and I feel bad that smug is missing this because, you know, we do so many of these shows that sometimes you forget, like, the real bangers where you can really just like.

[Smash]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

Just dance on these idiots who are wrong about everything. Yeah. And I don't feel like we've had, like, a really strong one like that since maybe, like, election day.

[Josh Holmes]

No, it's true.

[John Ashbrook]

And, and, and now with all the backdrop of the shutdown and all of that stuff, we finally have an opportunity to really make fun of these people.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, at the risk of sounding braggadocious.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Turns out we called everything that there was to call, and we're going to get into all of that in terms of a government shutdown. Politics writ large. What you're seeing here today, you could have known if you'd been listening each and every episode since last March, at least about the way that this whole thing was going to go down with a government shutdown. I think what we should do, first of all, if you're not up to speed on this, over the weekend, Senate Democrats caved and they basically did what we said that they were going to do, which is post election 2025, figure out a way to get back to the point where they're gonna open up the government again. Yeah, well, this is. This has been a problem in the Democratic Party, fellas. Represented, I think, best when we like to view these things as msnbc. Can we go to clip one, please?

[News Reporter]

It's strange, Dean, to go back to the original sort of part of this conversation of whether he is a good dealmaker. I mean, a way, it seems like the president is kind of getting what he wanted. Forty days ago, when all this started, he was out there saying that what, oh, this is all about Democrats trying to give health care to illegal immigrants. He just said that to reporters moments ago, repeated that refrain the Democrats had actually very successfully pushed back against. Then there's all this energy in the wake of the election. On Tuesday, the president made remarks saying, basically, wow, Republicans are being harmed by all of this, acknowledging that he was on his back foot, and now here he is winning again. How do we do it, Democrats?

[Josh Holmes]

I don't understand how a Democratic senator.

[John Ashbrook]

Goes, wow, we won really big.

[Josh Holmes]

Let me cave now. I don't understand.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, maybe if they're to be, you.

[John Ashbrook]

Know, to Anthony's point, if they were cynical, like, if we wanted just to.

[Michael Duncan]

Hold this out until we get through.

[John Ashbrook]

The election and.

[Josh Holmes]

Just to get through the election. Well, of course, you remember, if you're listening to the ruthless variety program, that was a point that we'll get to in a moment. But also, the Democrats weren't really fighting for anything here at all. I mean, that is the fundamental underlying question. How could you cave? Cave to what? Cave to nothing. We were talking about a Biden budget, a CR continuing resolution. There was no caving to anything. Their demands were things that are gonna end at the end of the year that weren't ripe anyway. At least the stated demands.

[Michael Duncan]

Right. And I think we're gonna get to the list of their demand. We're gonna delineate all of this. They didn't get any of them. They didn't get a single one of these demands. What they did get was a shutdown that extended beyond election day, which I think is what they really wanted.

[Josh Holmes]

I think it's what they really wanted. But it is interesting because, look, a lot of the polling has been dismaying to people who pay attention to this kind of thing left, right and center. At some level, if you're a news person, even if you're a leftist news person, it is sort of flummoxing how you can have literally just a Democratic Party blocking government funding, in this case a continuing resolution, and then have the media sort of just report that it's ongoing dispute. Right? It's an ongoing dispute. It's a conversation. Negotiations are going on. There's no fucking like. It's just you open it up or you don't. And that was basically what. But they were running cover for Democrats, as they always did. And I think from a public opinion standpoint had some success in that. In that there was confusion.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

At some level.

[Michael Duncan]

Right.

[Josh Holmes]

What was so amazing is after this whole thing has been brokered, whatever that means, but after eight Democrats decided they're gonna vote open up the government anyway, got a little change in tune from the media. Here's cnn. Clip two.

[News Reporter]

We've got plenty more on the other side. We will talk much more about this. Again, you're looking live at the Senate floor as the Democratic filibuster has been broken. We have so far reached 60. We're waiting for the official count, but right now, 60 votes. That would unlock moving forward with this plan to reopen the government on the Senate side. A quick break. More on the other side.

[Josh Holmes]

Did you catch that?

[Michael Duncan]

I sure did.

[Josh Holmes]

A Democratic filibuster.

[John Ashbrook]

We only find out that it's a Democratic filibuster once it's been broken.

[Josh Holmes]

Ah, amazing. I thought it was an ongoing dispute.

[John Ashbrook]

I thought it was just a negotiation that had to be done. Well, you know, I was told reliably Republicans control Everything. The White House, the House and the.

[Josh Holmes]

Senate, they could do whatever they want.

[Michael Duncan]

They said, fellas, let's remember axiom of the media, they only attack a Democrat when there's another Democrat who stands to benefit. And when you hear MSNBC say Trump, always such a great negotiator, he gets everything he wants. When you hear CNN say the Democrats shutdown, what they really mean is that the left wing of the Democrat Party who is unsatisfied with ending this shutdown was actually correct. They are taking up with the left wing of that party. And you're going to hear an awful lot more of that in the months.

[Josh Holmes]

To come, no question about it. But we will be remiss here on the Variety Program if we didn't take you down a little bit of memory lane with the program and exactly how this whole thing were to play out. And if you listen to us, I think it's one of the things that stands out amongst the ruthless Variety Program. We don't just give you some yucks. We can actually tell you what is going to happen if you go all the way back to March of last year. Here's what we had to say. Clip 3 yeah, but Trump wants it so we don't. Maybe we should shut the government down. These bunch of idiots, I'm not kidding you, they might be the dumbest fuck people I've ever met in my entire life. I have no idea what they could possibly be thinking. Remember we talked about this last week when we were talking about the State of the Union and you were like, you have to try to convince your caucus that at some point there's going to be something worth fighting for. And you can't spend yourself expend all your political capital on shit that doesn't matter in order to reserve it for stuff that does. They don't have any of that. And so now, I don't know, maybe they have the balls to shut the government down over a Biden budget.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Which is precisely what they did. And recall, Schumer's political standing only got worse right in May, April and May and leading into June, where the left of his party not only began to assert some dominance in the rise of Mandani within New York, which is particularly concerning for Schumer. But AOC and then just the general guidance and energy within the party itself as it started to reconstitute itself to an opposition party like it was all coming off the left hand side of the map, which became more precarious. And we talked about that for three months or so, but it only got worse for him. And then we had Thune on. So the majority leader of the United States Senate comes on and we confronted him with his very question. Clip 4 He knows what it takes to sort of sit on top of this teetering coalition that is the left, which gives us the concern, I imagine everybody in your office, is he going to do the right thing?

[John Thune]

That is the concern. And I think that to your point, the pressure is going to be enormous from that, you know, the left wing of the party and increasingly you're seeing the tail wagging the dog in the Senate. So, you know, it's Elizabeth Warren, it's Bernie Sanders, it's Cory Booker, Chris Murphy, you know, kind of the left of the left in the Senate is. And he's got, you know, and so Schumer's sitting there trying to decide, okay, do I do the responsible thing? Which, and we've been in that position when we've been in the, you know, the situation he's in right now. And it's, it's, it's hard. But at some point, you know, you've gotta, you gotta keep the, you gotta keep the lights on.

[Josh Holmes]

So, look, we're not splitting the atom over here, but we endeavor to give you the analysis and the guests that can tell you what's going to happen before it happens. And if you've been around this line of work long enough, you can kind of see where it was gonna go.

[John Ashbrook]

The light that was blinking shutdown had been blinking for months and months and months and months, and everybody was trying to preten it wasn't going to happen. And I feel like month after month, we were just reminding people, no, it feels like we're right on track for this thing.

[Josh Holmes]

Totally. But don't you think. I think one of the most offensive components to this, to me, is that you could see it coming all the way back in March. And we talked about then through until June when we asked the majority, the majority leader got it. It's like, look, I think this guy's under enormous pressure. But it was always just about the political pressure that the minority leader, Chuck Schumer was under. It wasn't about what the deal was or the contours. I mean, this was a Biden budget that Chuck Schumer himself helped craft in many ways. And so the willingness of the media to entertain the discussion that this was all about leverage as Sheldon Whitehouse leverage.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, yeah, there it is.

[Josh Holmes]

To get something on Obamacare was crazy. This was, that's the reason that they Made up at some level to try to make it seem to the American people that they had a greater goal.

[John Ashbrook]

No, it was entirely a political exercise to save Chuck Schumer's career.

[Josh Holmes]

You know, so. But it wasn't. At the end, it wasn't enough for us to tell you when it was going to happen and how it was going to happen. We also told you when it was going to end. Our good friend John Ashbrook in clip five.

[Michael Duncan]

So if you're placing bets on when this government shutdown might end, it's worth considering a date after Virginia's election on November 4th.

[John Ashbrook]

Might I say he looked very handsome in that.

[Josh Holmes]

He did look handsome. You buttered yourself up.

[Michael Duncan]

It's true. It's true. We saw this from the beginning. Democrats were more concerned with enraging federal employees who lived in Northern Virginia and getting them to vote than they were in satisfying their need for a paycheck. And I'm telling you, you could see it, you could see it for a month in advance that how in the world are they going to get Democrats to vote for a lunatic like Jay Jones and overlook everything that he said about killing his opponents? It's to force them to only view that race through a partisan lens. And it worked.

[Josh Holmes]

So lo and behold, within a calendar week, all of a sudden, deals are in hand. Deals. Right. You've heard this a lot. They have come to a deal. Right. It doesn't matter the broadcast or their partisan affiliation. The way that this whole thing, and this is the shorthand of the dumb fuck media, a deal is at hand. They have brokered an agreement. Magic bipartisan solution.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, okay. So that means that there's something different than what has been offered and dealt with over the preceding three weeks. Because a deal indicates that some kind of give and take has been accomplished.

[John Ashbrook]

Some leverage.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, some leverage. But some discussion at some level. Well, it's interesting. We've got a Chris Cilliza tweet on this very thing. Can we put that thing up? Okay, what he says is that on October 16, John Thune offered Democrats a deal where he guaranteed a vote on ACA subsidies by December in exchange for reopening the government. Democrats rejected it on November 9. 24 days later, they took the exact same deal. A shutdown could have been avoided and ended weeks ago.

[Michael Duncan]

What happened between October 7th and November 9th, you might ask yourself, was it Election Day?

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, was there an election involved? Maybe if somebody was listening to Smash Smasherton, they could have predicted a deal. Well, you gotta broker a bipartisan discussion. We have these very serious meetings where we've given. Take the moderates. The forward thinking of each party are gonna hammer something out. What they hammered out was exactly jack shit of what Democrats had as demands. If I can put that up. ACA subsidies. Okay.

[Michael Duncan]

I don't remember seeing that in the deal.

[Josh Holmes]

Nothing. Reversal of bbb. That's the big beauty. Medicaid reforms.

[Michael Duncan]

Let me. Let me just double check. Let me double check the deal.

[Josh Holmes]

Congressional record.

[Michael Duncan]

I'm checking the deal right now.

[Josh Holmes]

I don't see it as a bipartisan agreement. Surprise. Okay. The reversal of doge firings.

[John Ashbrook]

Okay, that's hilarious.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, just hold on, let me scroll.

[John Ashbrook]

Down and try to find maybe we do a control F for big balls and see if maybe.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, maybe big balls.

[Michael Duncan]

No, no, the deal is just like one page here. I don't see any of that.

[Josh Holmes]

Nothing on big balls. Okay, Refunding the cpb, NPR and pbs.

[Michael Duncan]

Oh, interesting. Okay, let me just.

[Josh Holmes]

So that's central.

[Michael Duncan]

Let me go back to the page here and see if they see they.

[Josh Holmes]

Want a public broadcasting airwaves refunded.

[Michael Duncan]

I'm not seeing it. No, I don't see it.

[Josh Holmes]

It wasn't in there. No, no. Well, it's funny because I was. I was told that a big bipartisan deal, they ramp. Really brokered something. It's almost as if nothing fucking happened at all.

[John Ashbrook]

Nothing at all.

[Josh Holmes]

You just had an election where they got what they wanted and they're like, okay, I'm out of here.

[John Ashbrook]

It's like that meme you see of the guy with the cape who's like, I guess my work is done here. And then the guy's like, what did you do? And then they just.

[Josh Holmes]

The cape. The cape. Throw over the eyes. Well, we've done it again.

[Michael Duncan]

We did it.

[Josh Holmes]

Moving on. And meanwhile, the news media, well, a distinguished group of bipartisan senators have sat down and decided we're not going to take it any longer. We're going to take this into our own hand. They didn't do anything. Dog. Not a thing.

[John Ashbrook]

Not a single dog.

[Michael Duncan]

One more thing. This is not on our sheet, but it's another prediction that I know we made. On the show is a guy who did not vote for reopening the government. Chuck Schumer.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

We predicted that he would not vote to reopen the government because he's so worried about AOC that he thinks that he will trick primary voters into believing he's on their side if he didn't vote for cloture.

[Josh Holmes]

You see? You see, I'm the radical here, right? Everybody's bending to the right of me. Chuck Schumer. I haven't been here for 174 years. I tricked him again. I've done it again. We're going to get into an awful lot more about that in this ongoing democratic civil war that has erupted in the wake of all that, right after this.

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[Josh Holmes]

Okay, so we've discussed at some length this grand bipartisan deal that has been made to ensure that the government is open and the fact that it's all bullshit and this is all just kind of run cover. But surely a member of the esteemed bipartisan coalition who has voted to open up this government wouldn't give away the store when talking about why they did what they did, surely. Clip 8 Do you wish that you would have started looking for this off ramp sooner? You said that Republicans were never going to change in their position.

[Smash]

I didn't fully understand how dug in they were.

[John Ashbrook]

Hilarious.

[Smash]

I was so focused on elections. I wasn't in this discussion on the health care to see how dug in they were. But I, even as I was not part of these discussions, I was saying to Thune and others on the floor, going back, listen, I need you. Some of you heard me say this in the hall. I need a moratorium on mischief. Others are working on the health care thing.

[John Ashbrook]

I feel like you're doing the mischief.

[Smash]

Working on the approach thing. I trust them. I need a moratorium on mischief because if we vote to open and then the immediate step next week is Donald Trump fires a lot more people, it's going to blow up trust to get the full year deal. And so I've been, I've been preaching this moratorium on mischief for a month. But I think partly, why did they finally give me the moratorium on mischief?

[Josh Holmes]

Unbelievable.

[Smash]

They needed My vote. But they also saw the election on Tuesday.

[John Ashbrook]

I remember it was. It was wall to wall coverage on the importance of the moratorium on mischief. I saw. I remember that in the shutdown, right underneath it was the moratorium on Misch, a key component of that thing. And the ticker was going. It was a national conversation.

[Josh Holmes]

Everyone wanted to know, key senator demands moratorium on mischief.

[John Ashbrook]

Guy, I mean, has his head so far up his fucking ass it's unbelievable.

[Josh Holmes]

But my favorite part about this is, you know, the geography of all this is sort of important in that this is a senator from Virginia. The people who were predominantly impacted by the government shutdown reside in this man's state. And what he obliged the national media into understanding is that when the government shutdown happened, everybody in his constituency that he represents lost their paycheck. Boy, oh, boy. He was just so worried about the government or about the election, he didn't even really realize what everybody was up to.

[Michael Duncan]

That's exactly right. He was more interested in federal employee fury than he was in their satisfaction. And I don't think there's a single federal employee who has watched the government shutdown, or at least most of them who are all Democrats who see it that way. But the point of the matter is, they wanted feds to be pissed. They didn't want them to be satisfied. You heard it from their own senator right there.

[John Ashbrook]

Also, just very brazen overall to be like, I was more focused on this election than my job while none of you got paid and the government was shut down.

[Michael Duncan]

That's exactly right.

[John Ashbrook]

Like, it's just a wild thing to do, man. Democrats, they just have it so easy. They do.

[Josh Holmes]

Imagine any elected officials, like, imagine if Trump was like, yeah, I wasn't really concerned about doing my job. I was just focused on the elections.

[John Ashbrook]

Got a little bit of senioritis.

[Josh Holmes]

People would go absolutely insane if he.

[Michael Duncan]

Was like, you know what? I'm gonna leave the border open just a little bit, just so that the illegals come in. And then all the conservatives in our country are pissed.

[Josh Holmes]

I stopped reading my report. Which is more than he. I mean, what he is acknowledging is not only did he not read his reports and understand what his colleagues were up to, according to him, he didn't read the newspapers at all if it didn't pertain to electing some homicidal maniac attorney general in Virginia.

[Michael Duncan]

Exact dude.

[Josh Holmes]

Right?

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, that's basically the admonition that he was provided. But again, what I think it does more than anything else is underscore the Leadership problem within the Democratic Party. Here's a rank and file guy. He was number two on the ticket to Hillary Clinton.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

This guy is representing the most important constituency when it comes to a government shutdown because they're the people that are impacted first. Now, once it became a problem for everybody who was flying in an airline, well, things start to change. But these people haven't had a paycheck in six weeks. He represents them. And it never occurred to him to actually look into what it is that anybody was working on until after the election. Right.

[Michael Duncan]

I think it just is another piece of evidence that there is no real elected leadership among Democrats. There is none. That leadership for Democrats is a symbiotic relationship between people like Tim Kaine and Chuck Schumer and the major networks in CNN and msnbc. They have, they have the cod lock on what leadership in their party actually looks like.

[Josh Holmes]

No question about it. But not everybody is pleased, as you might imagine. We talked to Smash just a moment ago about how Chuck Schumer didn't find himself amongst the constituency to reopen the government because as we discussed all the way back to March, he was feeling some pressure. But he also didn't feel enough pressure to unify his conference for any sort of meaningful reform. We talked at the beginning of October about how there was no off ramp to this. They didn't have any of those demands. There was nothing that was going to be done. There was no off ramp. The only way to absolutely open the government again is to make sure that you have six or eight people take a walk on the elected leadership. Well, some progressives are onto this. Look at this. Clip from Ro Khanna. Graphic 1 so Ro Khanna, a prominent member of the House of Representatives, echoes a lot. And I've seen Rashida Tlaib and a whole number of folks on the progressive side in the House say that Schumer needs to step down. Senator Schumer is no longer effective and should be replaced. If you can't lead the fight to stop healthcare premiums from skyrocketing for Americans, what will you fight for? Okay, fair. I'll also just say, like, I'm not sure that everybody read Ro Khanna into the fact that the whole skyrocketing premiums was just sort of of guys to get through election day. He actually still thinks they're fighting for something. Yeah, right. And they clearly never. I mean, Tim Kaine gave away the story. He's like, yeah, he's like, but what about the health care premiums? Like, we were never really that into that.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Remember, we did that. We built that system. It sucks. We just have to blame it on somebody else. That's the whole goal here.

[Michael Duncan]

That's exactly right. And do you think that Schumer, or maybe Schumer's political guy, called Ro Khanna and was like, hey, didn't you notice that Schumer voted against reopening the government?

[Josh Holmes]

He's with you.

[John Ashbrook]

He's with you.

[Michael Duncan]

He's not on.

[Josh Holmes]

He's not on their side.

[Michael Duncan]

He's on your side. He voted no on reopening the government. Therefore, he's a leader of the left.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, yes. Yeah. No, he's a leftist leader. That's right. He's certainly not an establishment Democrat. He's been there since the fricking Declaration of Independence. You know what I mean? Like, and this is kind of where I want to summate this conversation, which is amongst Chuck Schumer we know, because we've worked in Senate leadership, there are two paths to take on intractable questions of doing your job to the benefit of the American people and being responsive to the political anxieties of your party in a grassroots space at any particular time. It's a difficult decision to make because, Austin, this will happen. Often. Anybody who's in a leadership position has to confront one of these two things. And for the most part, the Republican Party over the years has decided to do its job right. Sometimes it's cost people their jobs. Sometimes they've gotten through it and managed to deal with it. But if you go back to, like, Boehner or McCarthy, these things have become problematic for the Republican Party and that you have to confront this, and you have to make a decision about whether you lead or whether you just try to pretend to be on top of your conference and your party. And this was a question that confronted us often in the McConnell office when we were there. And it was like, you have to make sure that people are getting the basic government benefits that they need. Like, the walking away for just political purposes is insane. Like, you can't just message your way through harm to the American people. Like, tell all the people that have been sitting in an airport since Sunday that, like, well, you were more concerned about keeping your job as a minority leader than you were about making sure that they got to where they needed to go over the last 48 hours. But that's what he's doing, right? I don't know if anybody calls him on it or not, but I know for a fact that when you mortgage your political salvation to tell people Basically, you're not in charge any longer. That's the end.

[John Ashbrook]

Well, that's the end.

[Michael Duncan]

I don't know, buddy. I think that the ruse he has pulled on New York voters may work.

[Josh Holmes]

You think this is going to work?

[Michael Duncan]

I think he has tricked AOC to. And I think AOC will now say, I'm not running in a primary against you, Chuck Schumer, because you're an actual left wing leader for this country and.

[Josh Holmes]

A champion of the left.

[Michael Duncan]

I think that he's tricked AOC out of running dunks.

[Josh Holmes]

What is your take on that?

[John Ashbrook]

Just to sort of rephrase, I think what you were driving out there, Holmes, is I just think this is not a partisan argument. It's whether you're Republican or Democrat in leadership in Congress, there's always necessarily a tension between the ambitions of the grassroots base of your party and what's actually feasible that you can do in your role. And so being an effective member of leadership, whether you're Republican or Democrat, is finding the balance in there and riding that rail between what's actually possible and the limits of your power and the people that last the longest and do the best job in that role. Do those things now. Do not delude yourself into thinking it's gonna make you popular, because it just won't.

[Josh Holmes]

It's not the role.

[John Ashbrook]

It's not the role. The role is to be the heat shield for the caucus and find what is the median position of all of those people and drive towards that as the goal. That's what gets you reelected.

[Josh Holmes]

That's exactly right.

[John Ashbrook]

You know, not the opinion poll of people who live in a different state and are disappointed that you didn't, I don't know, impeach Donald Trump on day one.

[Josh Holmes]

You're right.

[John Ashbrook]

Right, right. Or like, got Obama to, like, undo Obamacare by not blinking. You know, like, there is a tension between grassroots politics in reality, regardless of partisanship and leadership. Just. It's a difficult thing.

[Josh Holmes]

It just seems to me that if you're a leader of one of the two parties and your way out is conceding that you have no power whatsoever to effectuate your desired outcome.

[John Ashbrook]

Not good, Bob.

[Josh Holmes]

You failed to be the leader of one of those two parties. Right. Not good, Bob. And I think that's what he's done here. So I think this guy's done. I think it's only a matter of time, say he's not running again or he's gonna give up the leadership.

[John Ashbrook]

I think he's done.

[Josh Holmes]

I think it's over. But it Leads us to our question of the day for all of you. How long will Chuck Schumer last? Now, I think it's almost impossible to believe that they will make his switch mid run after a positive election result for Democrats in November and a quickly upcoming midterm next year.

[Michael Duncan]

They could. I mean, the Giants fired Brian Dibel.

[Josh Holmes]

They did. They did.

[John Ashbrook]

He was like Coach of the Year three years ago.

[Josh Holmes]

That's a wild thing.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

But New York can switch midstream. But I agree with you. I don't think they're gonna do it.

[Josh Holmes]

I don't think they're gonna do it in large part because I'm not sure that anybody on the. In the second tier wants to take these hand of cards. Now, you know how much Chris Murphy wants that job. And he's been talking about. And now he's very vocal here about, like, I don't understand how we did all these great things and we, the American people, on our side, and then we just cave. It's like he's, like, taking leave of his senses about what it is that they've accomplished.

[John Ashbrook]

Like, he doesn't know.

[Josh Holmes]

Right. But he's speaking directly to that grassroots base that will make it impossible for his colleagues to oppose him when and if he actually takes a shot at Schumer.

[John Ashbrook]

That's how you know you're a true asshole inside of the conference.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

He's not going to be popular at lunch, I can tell you that much.

[Josh Holmes]

Totally. Just his only goal is to try to make it too unpopular for the rest of his colleagues to say no to him, because he's not gonna win him over with shit like that. But the question that that derives is our question of the day, is how long will Schumer last? Because his writing is on the wall. If you can't lead your conference, you can't come up with an out that makes you popular. You can't come up with some kind of a win, which there's nothing here. What are you doing here? What are you doing here?

[Michael Duncan]

Great point.

[Josh Holmes]

So that's our question of the day. We come back, we got a little variety. Everybody likes variety. Animal Kingdom.

[Michael Duncan]

Oh, yeah. No less.

[Josh Holmes]

So we're gonna get to that right after this. Okay, fellas. You know how we love the Animal kingdom?

[John Ashbrook]

Yes.

[Josh Holmes]

There's some scary stuff coming out.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

According to npr, which, believe it or not, still in business.

[John Ashbrook]

Oh. Oh. They didn't need our money.

[Michael Duncan]

I was told otherwise.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, they said they were shutting down the government in order to refund and make sure that this Operation was going, but they're still producing some content.

[Michael Duncan]

Very interesting.

[Josh Holmes]

I can't vouch for all of it, but this particular content. Worth seeing. Clip 8. Okay, that's a rat. Yeah. And it's. Oh, boy, there's a bat.

[John Ashbrook]

Oh, he's eating him.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, geez. There's the rat eating the bat. There's other bats involved, and those bats.

[John Ashbrook]

Aren'T saving their other bat friend.

[Josh Holmes]

No, the rat has just. Oh, geez. Oh, my Lord. What is it? Okay, so listen, according to npr, bats carry a lot of viruses, including variants of the coronavirus that sparked the pandemic. We've learned a little bit about that. Remember, it was like. Well, initially it was something. It was like a pangolin.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, yeah, the wet markets. Yes, right. They. They thought maybe this coronavirus didn't come from, like, the maximum security coronavirus lab in Wuhan, but maybe the Wuhan wet market, where pangolin.

[Josh Holmes]

And then there was, like, some discussion about, you know, they serve bat soup in there. Well, anyway, the bats are a problem, but since bats don't often attack humans, the question is, what's the risk of these viruses being passed on to humans? I love that we're still asking that question.

[John Ashbrook]

Do we have any idea.

[Josh Holmes]

Global fucking pandemic. A new study. Inadvertently. Inadvertently, we're not studying these things, but inadvertently, we find out it discovered. It discovered a possible route of transmission. Again, I can't get it. I did do it. All right, this is not the direction this was supposed to go, but, I mean, suspend all disbelief for the purposes of the rest of what I'm reading here. Researchers were filming bats to learn how they communicate when they swarm. And during a routine watch of the live footage, they saw something that shocked them. A rat grabbed a bat and bit it. We thought, oh, well, that's an unlucky coincidence. Says name unpronounceable. Right? It's meerjam. Whatever. There's tildes and all kinds of different foreign markings.

[Michael Duncan]

I think that's an umlaut German.

[Josh Holmes]

Okay, Whatever it is, I can't say it. Co author of the paper that Evolutionary Diversity dynamics at the Museum of Natural History in Berlin. Good call on the German thing is definitely umlaut. But then it happened again and again. And the rats could even snatch a bat flying midair, as you saw in that clip right there. Snatched in midair. So this behavior is mildly concerning to Rhianna Plowright. Tough name. Plowright, an infectious disease ecologist at Cornell University, one of these fine American institutions who studies bat viruses for Bat viruses like coronaviruses, to spread to people. There's often a bridging host, Pandalin, or in this case, a rat, an animal that regularly comes into contact with both bats and people. Plowrite says this study shows that rats could be possible bridging hosts. That rats are adapted to human environments. They're all around us. She says, sure, of course they are. In New York, home of Cornell. I mean, they just. Then they're going to be a lot more. With mom, Donnie.

[Michael Duncan]

Right.

[Josh Holmes]

Be a real rat haven. As we degrade habitats, we bring rats with us. Well, she said it for me. And we're potentially bridging. Bridging host with us to help us be exposed to the next pandemic pathogen. Okay, well, there it is.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah. What they're missing there is that rats and bats are basically the same animal. One has wings and one does not. And I'm not surprised, fellas, that z Germans are arming the moderate rats to take out the bats. You know, this is. It's a very, you know, a lot of ingenuity out of Germany these days.

[John Ashbrook]

Well, I was reading this whole thing and I was thinking that this was. Is almost like another movie from Ridley Scott, you know, like an alien versus Predator situation here. Right. Because like you were saying, smash, you've got the bats.

[Josh Holmes]

Yes.

[John Ashbrook]

And the rats. I don't think there's two animals that come to mind that are bigger disease vectors than all of the planet. Right.

[Josh Holmes]

Things to be avoided.

[John Ashbrook]

Like if you wanted to make a blockbuster by, I don't know, Michael Bay, about the most dangerous coronavirus, it would be a bat and a rat eating.

[Josh Holmes]

Each other, grabbing each other like that.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And then showing up in your kitchen and taking a bite out of your chicken tendy.

[John Ashbrook]

Which one do you think is scarier when it comes to disease vectors, rats or bats?

[Josh Holmes]

I honestly, I hate bats. I hate bats in large part because when we were kids, they told you that, you know, they don't see, they just have sonar. And so, you know, I grew up in a place where bats were around now. They were like little black bats. They weren't. Whatever this situation is. But the whole theory growing up was they couldn't see your hair and they get stuck in your hair.

[Kevin Keene]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And then they would bite. So as a kid, when you saw bats, you'd cover your head. And I think. I don't know if that's still taught or if that was just. I don't think there's any truth to it. I don't know if there's any truth to it, but that was like, a thing. So to me, easier to avoid the rat than something that just swoops out of the sky with the speed. They got a quick first move.

[John Ashbrook]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Those bats can't be avoided.

[John Ashbrook]

The other thing about bats, and I'm sure you've got a ton of stories because I know you spent a lot of time up at a lake house or a cabin, but there is nothing worse than like, driving all day to some remote area, you know, on a lake somewhere, and you finally get to the location it hasn't been opened all season. Maybe this is the first trip of the season.

[Josh Holmes]

And bats are involved.

[John Ashbrook]

Bats are involved. You get in there and you're like, how the heck am I supposed to isolate this thing? And you've got a pot and a pan and maybe like a broom and you're trying to, like, get it into the pot and somebody's got a big quilt and they're trying to direct it out the sliding glass door.

[Josh Holmes]

Totally.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, I told you the story about Hans in the tennis racket.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, right, right, right.

[Josh Holmes]

So that tennis rackets are commonly involved, but I would say that my first second amendment experience had to do with bats.

[John Ashbrook]

Nice.

[Josh Holmes]

And it wasn't traditionally it was. We're talking about a high powered pellet rifle.

[John Ashbrook]

Oh, okay.

[Josh Holmes]

Right. Where you. You load it. So it's not a gunpowder involved situation. But my dad would go around the side to make sure that I had some angle at it. And my job was to shoot the bat out of its. Its sort of hanging position under rafters and whatnot. Great for a kid. Loved every minute of it. Yeah, it was fantastic.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, it's a great experience.

[Josh Holmes]

But that's, you know, I mean, that's what you do when you grow up in the Midwest. You kill rats and bats. We don't really have rats. That seems like we don't.

[Michael Duncan]

But. But bats in the Midwest eat them. Eat skeeters? Yeah, yeah, they're. They're eating the bugs. This is. These are not Chinese bats, where there's somebody in a lab injecting them with viruses just to see what would happen. And then putting them out on a wet market and seeing what would happen if people eat them. This is the Midwest.

[Josh Holmes]

They don't have fangs.

[Michael Duncan]

They've got enough material to be able to take out the skeeters. And that's what you want.

[Josh Holmes]

Can I get one more clip? Just. Just to look at the way that this thing is done. So this rat is hunting. Right. And it's got There. Just grabs it and it holds on with the back feet. It's done this before. It's seen this movie. It's planned what it's doing. It's not the first bat that this thing is captured. But what's interesting to me is that he subdues it and now he's taken it away. Like, do they eat the bat?

[Michael Duncan]

Well, that's what that guy was doing.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, in the article, they were like, yeah, they bite the bat.

[Michael Duncan]

No, no, this is. That's the NPR version.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

What happens in the animal kingdom is one animal eats the other animal. NPR makes it like a G rated Disney cartoon.

[Josh Holmes]

Plowrite is underselling. What's happening here?

[Michael Duncan]

No idea.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

Fly ride. No idea. No. No interaction with the animal kingdom. And you know what, Michael?

[Smash]

I think.

[Michael Duncan]

Here we go. I think this is a moment for a. For, you know, one of your favorite documentarians. Okay. One of your favorite documentarians would have something to say about the animal kingdom. And I feel like it is probably appropriate in this case.

[John Ashbrook]

Wait, you want me to do like a Werner Herzog?

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, okay. Yeah. I didn't see that coming. I thought you were going in on Plow, Right.

[Michael Duncan]

No, Werner Herzog's version of chaos in the animal kingdom.

[John Ashbrook]

Okay. So for our listeners and viewers who aren't familiar with Werner Herzog, he has a very European, sort of German, Germanic style of delivery in language, which really is more like poetry than sentences.

[Josh Holmes]

Yes.

[John Ashbrook]

And he's done a thousand great documentaries about man and nature. What would he say about the rat and the bat? Okay, let me think about this. What people see as a delicate dance between a winged and a land rat. I see the casual indifference of nature.

[Josh Holmes]

Wing.

[Announcer]

Winged.

[Michael Duncan]

Winged.

[John Ashbrook]

But if that was a documentary, that's how Herzog would cover it.

[Josh Holmes]

That was it. That was really good.

[John Ashbrook]

Thank you. You really put me on the spot there.

[Josh Holmes]

But you delivered no preparation whatsoever. I thought he was just gonna talk about how Plow, right. Was like an amateur porn name.

[John Ashbrook]

We wouldn't take the bait on that one.

[Josh Holmes]

A lesbianic experience. No, we weren't going there.

[John Ashbrook]

Nope.

[Josh Holmes]

Okay, well, that's just. That's the news. One. One more clip. This is American culture dominating Germans Sing Country Road. This is an NFL game. I don't know if they've done this more than. I know that we're having our first game in Spain from the NFL. But in Germany, I was surprised to see the clip. 9. That's kind of nice to see.

[Michael Duncan]

Dude. It is so nice to see in. In a stadium. That was Dedicated by Adolf Hitler himself. All of the Germans in modern time are singing a hymn to West Virginia.

[Josh Holmes]

West Virginia.

[Michael Duncan]

To America.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

Think about the change that occurred from when that place was built to where it is today and just the absolute dominance of American culture.

[John Ashbrook]

Jesse Owens won a gold medal in that arena. And then Jonathan Taylor from the Indianapolis Colts put us up, what, 270?

[Michael Duncan]

That's exactly right, buddy.

[John Ashbrook]

Rushing yards.

[Michael Duncan]

Exactly right.

[Josh Holmes]

Two athletic achievements of note.

[Michael Duncan]

America.

[Josh Holmes]

Question about it.

[Michael Duncan]

America wins.

[Josh Holmes]

America wins. I will say I did watch the game. Was rooting on your. Your Colts.

[John Ashbrook]

Thank you.

[Josh Holmes]

Because I. I did see the Falcon fan descend upon Germany in my first question was if ever there was some sort of impetus behind the Germans becoming nationalistic again, it was likely the. The Atlanta fan.

[John Ashbrook]

There was way too much red and black.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, red and black. And they were dancing in the streets and they were making. I mean, it was a little alarming. Yeah, it was a little alarming. I don't know, maybe they didn't think about that. When they scheduled that game. It was like the. The first game of last season when they went down to Brazil and everybody had. It was Green Bay against the Eagles. And they're like, oh, you can't wear green. That's a gang.

[John Ashbrook]

There's gang colors.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. It was like, maybe we should do a little research on the colors.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah. Right.

[Josh Holmes]

Before we go to all these events. Or maybe.

[John Ashbrook]

Maybe an alternative jersey. Maybe wear white.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, maybe. Maybe it's time for the color.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

You know that. What do they do, like the special all whites.

[John Ashbrook]

Oh, yeah. The color Rush.

[Josh Holmes]

Or the color Rush ones. Right. Where they. Yeah, well, they didn't. So it is what it is. Anyway, we've got a big interview in front of us. ABA President Kevin Keene. I want to welcome back to the program an old friend here. He's the president of the American Beverage Association, Kevin Keene. How are you, sir?

[Kevin Keene]

Josh. I'm great, Josh. How are you?

[Josh Holmes]

I'm good. Listen, I think last time you were in, you gave us a little update on where your association has been in a change moment under President Trump. We're dealing with Maha Maga, an increased interest in the products and the brands that you represent. But I understand that there's a lot of good news out there.

[Kevin Keene]

There is, and that's why I appreciate you having me back, Josh. When we talked last time, basically just really wanted to educate you and your listeners and remind them about our industry. You know, we have this on our wall, and we had it on for our wall for 10 years. That we're American companies making American products with American workers in America's hometowns. You know, we literally have 4,000 facilities across the country and touch every part of the community. You know, we do $2.8 billion in charitable contributions just to give you a sense of how tied we are in the community. But I also told you all how action oriented we are. You know, we're out there not just providing these great paying jobs for workers and growing that American economy that the President wants. We're also out there helping to, you know, build, build bridges within the community. And so we've continued to build, you know, we're action oriented. And so just since we Talked, we have 24 new facilities that are either launched or we did groundbreaking for in the industry. And that's $1.3 billion in further investment. Exactly. So this again is a testament to how rooted we are in our communities, how committed we are to growing our businesses and our communities together. And so we're, you know, we're continuing to go and grow.

[Michael Duncan]

That's what I wanted to ask you about because there's been such a push under this administration to reinvigorate American manufacturing, American jobs. You mentioned the 24 new facilities. I wonder if you could just tell us a little bit about where some of those facilities are either started or already underway. Just, just, just to give people a sense of like where these jobs are are going to be coming online.

[Kevin Keene]

Yeah, great. I mean, they're, they're in Ohio, rural part of Ohio.

[Josh Holmes]

You had to start with that, huh? You know, airport today. He knows how to butter up the questioner.

[Kevin Keene]

That's right. We've got Ohio, we've got Arkansas, we've got Tennessee, we've got Missouri, we have some in the Midwest, in the Chicago area, in Wisconsin, as well as Michigan and then the Carolinas, just to give you a sense of where some of those facilities are. So it really shows the breadth of our bottling community. You know, these family owned bottlers who run the distribution companies, the bottle and distribution companies.

[Josh Holmes]

I think it's the one thing about your industry that I didn't really understand until I got to D.C. and started dealing with different coalitions and where jobs are produced in different districts in different states is that, you know, you think of a brand and you just think of wherever their HQ is and you know, whatever it is that they manufacture. And then what you come to understand is that downstream there's a whole bunch of individuals from the bottling to the distributing to all of these things. And then, you know, I think back on, you know, the little league teams and stuff that I played for and like who the sponsors were. They were always like a part of this larger brand that you had represented. But they were very ingrained in the community. But that's really sort of the network or the spider web. That is what it is that your industry is.

[Kevin Keene]

We are. I mean, that's why, you know, frankly, we were excited when the President came in and started talking about his American first agenda and wanting to bring American businesses back home, American jobs back home and grow here. Well, heck, we've been doing this for generations. So talk about a chance to go out and talk about your industry, talk about what we're doing and reminding people, you know, when they see those trucks going around in their town, that's some local family owned bottler most likely, and your neighbor who's working at those jobs and they support, you know, so many other jobs in the community. Just think about it, you know, the stores, the restaurants, you know, just the little mom and pop places that depend on our products for them to be successful.

[Josh Holmes]

Of course, one of the things that has come up is the whole Maha movement. But in addition to having the spider web into communities across this country, in terms of bottlers and everything else, you also have some of the smart, smartest people who can sort of recognize and change and adapt to an electorate and what it is that that people are looking for and wanting. And of course, this entire discussion during the 2024 election, largely led by RFK and now continues to this day, it's about healthier products and serving that consumer base. And I assume an awful lot of what the brands that you represent are looking at is we're not going to just serve the same thing time and time again. Like that's not in our interest. Our interest is changing and being leading edge in terms of health for the American people.

[Kevin Keene]

Right. And that's where we think we're aligned to with the mission here. You know, of course we want America to be healthy again. And we've been working at that for quite some time, including during the President's first term, we were hard at work on that issue. I think if you look at our industry and people go down their beverage aisle today, they can see all the new choices and all the innovation that our industry is creating that provide options that have no sugar or calories in them. And that's not just the soda. Some people might just jump to conclusion. Oh, sure, we know you have zero sugar soda and you have the diet sodas. Well, no Most of that innovation on beverages with no sugar go beyond soda. They're the sparkling waters, the still waters, the flavored waters. They're the sports drinks, which. With no sugar. They're the hydration drinks with no sugar. They're the energy drinks with no sugar. And I understand you guys have a particular brand that you like, no sugar. So all this breadth of choice for the consumer that if there's. If there's a certain ingredient that they may not prefer or there's a certain, you know, maybe watching their calorie intake and they want some options, there are real options for them, and they taste good. And that's what's key. I mean, these guys know how to make beverages that taste good. And people buy. In fact, 60% of what Americans buy actually put a dollar down for has zero sugar in it right now. And our companies make that. And of that 60%, 51% of that are non sodas. So that gives you a sense of the scope of innovation that is providing the consumer with the real choice. I think Secretary Kennedy wants that. The Maha community wants and the President wants and our consumers want. Quite frankly, that's why we're doing it. Our consumers want the choice.

[Michael Duncan]

What you just said, what your consumers want, I think is one of the most important things, because you're describing a reaction to the market. Everybody who's talking about Maha out there on Instagram or Twitter or wherever they're talking about it, they are making a choice as free consumers to pursue a different type of product. And what you're describing is an industry that's responsive to that first and foremost and not like a government telling you what to make and what not to make.

[Kevin Keene]

That's right. And that's where it has to start. Has to start with our consumer and meeting their needs and desires. And, you know, our companies are brilliant at not just recognizing what the consumer is asking for, but maybe being a little bit in front of them and helping them get there by providing these good products so that they realize, you know, like, the prebiotics right now are hot.

[John Ashbrook]

Oh, yeah.

[Kevin Keene]

And our companies are making those. In fact, one of them just bought Poppy. Oh, yeah, we got a lot of.

[Michael Duncan]

Those in our refrigerator.

[Kevin Keene]

And they're creating some. Some of their own, too. So it's. It's kind of staying out in front on the edge. It's a. It's a fun industry because you have a lot of entrepreneurs out there who are coming up with good taste in products that the consumer wants. And our companies, you know, want to be at the cutting edge on that.

[John Ashbrook]

If your consumers want to go somewhere for information or facts or breakdowns of different products and certain ingredients and things like that. We had talked about this previously when you were in here before and I'm wondering if you give us an update on where you are with that as part of your program.

[Kevin Keene]

Yeah, thank you. One of the biggest, one of the big questions that the Maha community has been asking about is transparency. It's a big priority for the president, Secretary Kennedy. You know what? Absolutely fair question about transparency. How do we make our ingredients more transparent? We were the first industry to do the calorie labels on front, but then consumers started asking about, okay, what about those ingredients on the facts panel that are in small print underneath it? Great. Fair question. So we created a website called goodtonofacts.org and on that website, all of our companies and members and all of the brands pulled together all their ingredients, which was an endeavor. These ingredients, believe it or not, aren't just sitting around in one master list. You have so many different brands. We gathered it together, put them all on one site, this good to know site. And if you go to it, and it's out live now, if you go to it, you're going to find three buckets of information. First, you're going to find out what that ingredient is used in. And not just our products, but if it's in other types of foods, we'll put that on for you.

[John Ashbrook]

Like a preservative or something, who knows?

[Kevin Keene]

That's right. You know, so it may be in say a cola, but it also may be something that you'll find in bread. You know, we'll let you know that. Secondly, we'll let you know what that ingredient is called not just here in the US but in the uk, in Europe and in Canada. So some things are called different here in America than they are in Europe, for example. And I think that's where a lot of the confusion came in. Something's just called Differently in Europe. So we'll lay that out straight for you. And then probably the most, one of the most useful buckets is, is we'll tell you the safety assessment and regulatory safety assessment of those ingredients not just here in America with our fda, but in Europe and in Canada. And it's going to take you straight to their sites. So we put no thumb on the scale on any of this. It's just straightforward information, takes you right to the source so people can make their own decisions. We, we know there's apps out there where you can get opinions on these ingredients. We didn't see that as our role. Our role was to put down the basics. So this is a good first stop for a consumer looking for more information. And then we know they have other places to go to get opinions and other opinions.

[Josh Holmes]

I think one of the things that I've appreciated most about getting to know you and your organization is that there's this perception out there amongst beverages, basically because of the recent political movement and everything, where there's this sort of faceless corporate entity that's out there that's like, I don't know, nobody said anything about rat poison. Unless they say something about rat poison, I'm gonna serve up the rat poison. But like getting to know you, it is the antithesis of the motivation that you and the companies that you represent are trying to get to on a day to day basis. It's not about like, like, oh, you caught us again, we're gonna change. It's you're trying to get to the leading edge to ensure that the consumer doesn't have to read a five page white paper about everything that they're putting into their body. Like it's a motivation for you all internally to ensure that everybody's got a sense of what it is that they're getting themselves into with an average beverage.

[Kevin Keene]

That's right. And think about it, it makes sense. If you go back to what we just talked about on the economy, how we're this system of family owned bottlers, we are so community oriented. You know, these people are proud of the products they make and they should be. So of course they care about what their neighbor's drinking, what their friends are drinking and helping to meet those needs. So I think it's that that drives the ultimate concern to make sure that we're putting out strong, safe, enjoyable products. Again, we're refreshments, by and large.

[Michael Duncan]

That's exactly right. I mean, like the idea that somebody doesn't know the difference between mountain spring water and a Coca Cola is insane. Like I drink Coke because I like it, not because I think it's mountain spring water. You know what I mean? So there is an aspect to this where Americans can make their own choices, but because we live in a free country and people can pick what it is they want to pick.

[Kevin Keene]

And I think that's fundamental. We need to keep those roots, those personal responsibility, personal choice roots, and protect that. We think we're an industry that actually is a model for providing that type of choice. And then the information to help you decide what is best for you and your family, that really sets us apart. Really is a model for, I think, what the Maha goals are seeking to achieve.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. No question about it. So you're a football fan, right?

[Kevin Keene]

Oh, I'm a big football fan, yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And you're. We talked last time. You're a Vikes guy, I'm a Vikes guy. How do we feel?

[Kevin Keene]

Well, you know, my. My wife and kids surprised me and took me to see a Viking game for my birthday a couple weeks ago.

[Josh Holmes]

Did you go to one of the good ones or one of the bad ones?

[Kevin Keene]

I went to the Eagles game.

[John Ashbrook]

Oh.

[Kevin Keene]

It was actually on my birthday, so. So God bless them, they. They didn't realize we were playing super bowl champs, but it was on my birthday, so. But I'd never been to the Vikings.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, is that right?

[Kevin Keene]

Stadium.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. Which is a nice place.

[Kevin Keene]

Oh, my God. It's awesome.

[Josh Holmes]

It's pretty great.

[Kevin Keene]

So that was fun, but, you know, it's. It's. It's been a struggle.

[Josh Holmes]

What do you. What do you think? You think we got some chance here.

[Kevin Keene]

With J.J. i hope so. We need to. Right?

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Kevin Keene]

There's no choice right now.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, I feel like it's got a better upside than Flakka, but it's hard to see Danny Dimes doing what he's doing with the Colts.

[Kevin Keene]

That hurts. And then what Darnold is doing. So two of our quarterbacks from last year are in first place right now.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Like, shortlisting. Mvp.

[Kevin Keene]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

Well, I just say thank you.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. No, it stings a little. We trained him up.

[Kevin Keene]

I actually brought you a gift from the game.

[Michael Duncan]

Holy cow.

[Kevin Keene]

Yes. I don't know if this is good.

[Josh Holmes]

This is good.

[Kevin Keene]

That's the best stitching right now. Here we are.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, I mean, this is gonna hurt.

[John Ashbrook]

Can we get a freeze frame of this one?

[Josh Holmes]

You know, Kevin, it'd be better if you came in last week with this.

[Kevin Keene]

I know.

[Josh Holmes]

Stings a little that we're doing this right after the Sunday disappointment, but I appreciate your fanship nevertheless. We're gonna grind through it.

[Kevin Keene]

We will.

[Josh Holmes]

We're gonna grind through it.

[Kevin Keene]

Vikings always are gonna be there. Whether we get to the top is the question.

[Josh Holmes]

I appreciate your perspective on all of this because I do think in your industry in particular, there's an awful lot that people don't know, and attributing motives and attributing what people are doing and not doing are belied by what it is that you're talking about here. And the natural incentive of your industry to try to not only provide consumers what they want, but try to stay ahead of it and make sure people are healthy.

[Kevin Keene]

Yeah, it is. And look, it's a great environment for us to go out and continue to work on these things. We don't mind being pushed. We like being pushed. We're there to serve our consumers and ultimately that's serving Americans. And so that's what this industry is about for generations.

[Josh Holmes]

Kevin, I appreciate you stopping by. Thank you so much.

[Kevin Keene]

Thank you.

[Michael Duncan]

Guys. So smart. It seems like they're really going right after what the consumer wants because the consumer wants it. That is a market based solution. And it's very interesting to hear his thinking behind all of that.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, I mean, look, it's no secret they're a sponsor of the show. And so we've listened to an awful lot of what they've had to say. What I find so interesting about what Kevin and his team are doing is that they are responsive to the concerns the American people have about soft drinks and about, you know, sort of how they've been maligned across the country for the product that they provide. And once you dig a little deeper, they've got a website, they got all these other things. They're trying to tell you that, like, we hear you and we're kind of ahead of this curve because, you know, I mean, it takes several years to bring products to market, but they're already there with a whole bunch of things that are beating the marketplace in terms of being no sugar, no calorie, like, better for you than what people typically associate with beverages in America. And they provide a hell of a lot of jobs and in the process, so appreciate him telling that story. Listen, remember our question of the day, which was how long will Chuck Schumer last? When you like and subscribe to the ruthless variety program, we read every one of your responses and get back to you the very next episode. And we will do that on that. So like and subscribe. Great episode. It's going to be a good week. I can tell you right now. The Democratic civil war is going to to be a topic of conversation on Thursday when we talk to you because we're just getting started in the amount of audio video that they are providing for us, it is fantastic. So do not miss what we've got coming up with that, fellows. I think we did it.

[John Ashbrook]

I think we did it. But we do not have smug. So I think we have to go.

[News Reporter]

To Hollywood hen another banger of an episode, folks.

[Josh Holmes]

So until next time, minions, keep the.

[Michael Duncan]

Faith, hold the line and own the libs stay ruthless.