Why the Democrat Establishment is Already Pushing AOC 2028

Summary

Ruthless Podcast Episode Summary

Episode: "Why the Democrat Establishment is Already Pushing AOC 2028"

Hosts: Josh Holmes, Michael Duncan, Johnny, John Ashbrook
Guest: Edith Jorge Tunion (President, RSLC)
Date: May 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into why leading segments of the Democratic establishment are already laying the groundwork to position Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) as a potential 2028 presidential candidate. The Ruthless crew analyzes the deeper ideological shifts within the party, reflects on the role of leftist populism, and scrutinizes the post-2024 Democratic leadership vacuum. The team also tackles current Democrat scandals, political tactics, policy disputes, and offers a lighter touch with their signature satire and gamesmanship. A featured interview with RSLC President Edith Jorge Tunion offers a sharp look at the deeper ground game in American politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Is AOC a "Serious" 2028 Presidential Contender?

• Opening Assertion
  Josh Holmes sets the stage bluntly:

  “If you think for a second that the Democrats would not nominate AOC to be their 2028 candidate, you are insane.” [00:00]

• AOC Soundbites & Rhetoric
  The crew reacts to and dissects AOC’s latest public statements, including her claims about American history and the wealthy:

  “The American Revolution was against the billionaires of their time and we are declaring independence from such an extreme marriage of wealth and power and the state.” — AOC [00:15, 20:23]

• Hosts’ Analysis

  • The party’s leftward lurch is not performative — powerful establishment actors (e.g., David Axelrod, Jon Favreau) are actively uplifting AOC (see [24:00–26:28]).
  • Internal Democratic divisions are peaking, particularly between traditional pragmatists (Kamala Harris, Hakeem Jeffries, Chuck Schumer) and the resurgent “Hamas caucus,” as the hosts dub the far-left block ([03:36–04:34]).
  • Genuine belief among the Ruthless hosts that AOC’s populism and social media savvy could overcome the “establishment” guardrails, especially if Kamala falters ([07:53–08:41]).

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2. The AOC-Bernie Wing: Rhetoric & Risks

• Historical Revisionism & Appeal to Identity
  The hosts dissect AOC’s invocation of “black Americans creating democracy,” noting her tendency to recast U.S. history toward progressive talking points:

  "There's no black American who's like, yeah, we invented democracy in 1960... but I think there are elements of her... that might believe that." — Josh Holmes [09:02]

  • Bernie Sanders’ aversion to racial division is contrasted with AOC’s embrace of identity- and grievance-based rhetoric ([09:59–10:22]).
  • The hosts warn this dynamic is now central to gaining Democratic primary traction ([12:08–12:10]).

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3. AOC’s Economic Populism

• Billionaire Critique & Populist Economic Framing
  Classic AOC quote:

  "There’s a certain level of wealth and accumulation that is unearned ... you just can't earn a billion dollars." — AOC [12:15]

  • The show rebuts her as repackaging "old Marxist theory of labor value" and points out the practical necessity of scaling, risk-taking, and innovation for economic growth ([13:03–17:19]).
  • Josh Holmes warns:

    “To disincentivize innovation ... is to eliminate the American dream... if people like AOC had their hands on power ... I really believe we could be Greece, we could be worse…” [17:19]

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4. Institutional Power, Corruption & Grievance Politics

• Communism, Bureaucracy, and Hypocrisy
  The crew lampoons the idea that anti-capitalist rhetoric will create utopia, instead asserting such systems lead to bureaucratic self-enrichment (California examples) and historical ignorance (AOC's claims about the American Revolution) ([18:11–22:12]).

  Highlight:

  "Democrats love to play on ignorance about history and use that ignorance for a liberal talking point." — Johnny [21:11]

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5. 2028 Democratic Primary Dynamics

• AOC v. Kamala Harris
  Even Democratic consultants admit Kamala remains a major threat due to party infrastructure and donor ID, but AOC is already battling for the heart of the party base ([07:53–08:41], [27:34–27:42]).

• Democratic Establishment's Calculus
  The Axelrod/Favreau/Pod Save America "tryout" tour is described as a “scouting mission,” openly searching for someone to upend Kamala ([27:05]).

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6. Virginia Court Packing & Institutional “Rule Changing”

• Virginia Redistricting Battle

  • The crew unpacks Democrats’ failed $100m legal push, their outrage at judicial rebukes, and their willingness to "move the goalposts" by proposing to oust justices via lowering the retirement age to 54 ([37:57–41:59]).
  • The hosts paint this as historical Democratic behavior, referencing FDR’s court-packing ([44:48–45:10]).

  Notable Quote:

  "Every time you don't get a judicial decision... what you do is summarily ruin the branch that is giving the decision you don't like." — Josh Holmes [42:29–43:27]

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7. Democratic “Corruption” in California

• Gavin Newsom’s Diaper Program Saga
  The crew dissects cronyism in Newsom’s $20m "diaper deal," arguing it is emblematic of Democrat NGO-government slush funds ([30:28–36:22]).

  "What Gavin Newsom is doing in California ... is exactly what AOC’s government would do..." — Johnny [33:24]

• Nonprofit–State Relationships
  Observations on the explosion of NGO contracting to friends and family as a hidden engine of establishment political fundraising ([34:51–35:54]).

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8. King of the Hill & Satirical Segments

• The “King of the Hill” game, dissecting the wildest Twitter takes from political figures like Adam Kinzinger and Cheri Jacobus, brings a lighter tone and recurring inside jokes ([51:46–65:26]).
  • Ephemeral highlights: Epstein tweet parody ([53:04–53:54]), inside references to the rules of the game and the judge’s tongue-in-cheek decisions.

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9. Edith Jorge Tunion RSLC Interview

Timeframe: [69:43–90:53]

Main Takeaways

• Role of State-Level Races:

  • State legislatures and local offices forecast national trends — RSLC is critical in these contests.

• Candidate Quality & Localism:

  • Smart, locally relevant candidates outperform weak national ticket tops.
  • Example: Even when “top of the ticket was terrible” in 2022, legislative candidates in many states still overperformed ([73:58–74:06]).

• Key Battlegrounds for 2026:

  • States to watch: Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Minnesota.
  • Local ballot issues (e.g., taxes in Oregon) can drive turnout beyond national narratives ([78:20–79:10]).

• Ground Game Strategy:

  • RSLC has invested in "Project Door Strike":
    1. Early, nonpartisan door-knocking for constituent contact
    2. Multi-phase approach for maximizing turnout and persuasion
    3. Early voting, absentee ballot outreach crucial to closing the gap in marginal districts ([84:27–87:21]).

• Redistricting & "Rule Changing":

  • Democrats are pushing redistricting battles year-round, frequently through courts and “dark money” ([88:40–89:54]).

• Guest’s Practical Wisdom:

  • Show up, be visible in the community, use personal connection — don’t rely on digital-only outreach.
  • Real-world tactics and retail politics still matter in 2026.

  Notable Quote:

  "We have to win these legislative seats to make sure that we can control [redistricting]." — Edith Jorge Tunion [89:46]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Josh Holmes (re: AOC’s 2028 bid):

  "If you think for a second that the Democrats would not nominate AOC to be their 2028 candidate, you are insane." [00:00; 06:02; 26:28]

• Johnny (on Dems playing fast and loose with history):

  "They love to play on ignorance about history and use that ignorance for a liberal talking point." [21:11]

• Michael Duncan:

  "Democrats always prove out the maxim that they only care about power." [41:59]

• AOC:

  "There’s a certain level of wealth and accumulation that is unearned...you just can’t earn a billion dollars." [12:15] "My ambition is way bigger than that. My ambition is to change this country. Senate, House seats, elected officials come and go, but single payer healthcare is forever." [23:16]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00–00:41: Opening: Is AOC a serious 2028 contender?
• 05:17–07:22: AOC’s rise as the "face of the resistance left"
• 07:22–09:59: AOC on "black Americans created democracy" — hosts’ analysis
• 12:15–17:19: AOC’s take on wealth, billionaires, exploitation; hosts’ economic critique
• 20:23–22:12: AOC’s rhetoric on the American Revolution & billionaires
• 24:00–26:28: Axelrod, Democratic establishment boosting AOC
• 27:34–27:42: Democratic elite’s "scouting combine" dynamic; Kamala still leads but AOC coming
• 30:28–36:22: California diaper program — Democratic cronyism and state-NGO nexus
• 37:57–44:48: Virginia court-packing and Democratic willingness to change "the rules"
• 51:46–65:26: King of the Hill (satirical segment)
• 69:43–90:53: Edith Jorge Tunion (RSLC) interview — deep dive into state-level strategy

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Episode Takeaways

• Democratic Party Turbulence: The ideological and generational divides between the establishment (Kamala Harris, Hakeem Jeffries) and the ascendant left (AOC, the “Hamas caucus”) continue to intensify. The hosts argue the party machinery is preparing for AOC as a real possibility.
• AOC as a Test Case: The panel strongly believes AOC’s rhetorical posture and media appeal are not outliers, but are becoming mainstream within the Democratic base.
• Populism, History & Class Warfare: AOC’s playbook is a blend of crowd-pleasing economic populism, revisionist history, and identity politics; the hosts think this is both a potent but dangerous combination for the country’s political discourse.
• State-Level Political Warfare: Local and legislative races are not only bellwethers, they’re central to structural advantage — interview with RSLC underscores the GOP’s strategic priorities.
• GOP Prescription: The show urges Republicans to learn from Democrats’ ruthlessness, warning not to count on “the rules” in battles over courts, redistricting, or state funding.
• Satirical Relief: The episode provides comic interludes with Twitter games and clips, maintaining the podcast’s sharp-witted, irreverent tone.

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For Listeners Who Missed This Episode:

This episode is an energetic crash course in the evolving power struggle within the Democratic Party and the Republican response — all served with the Ruthless crew’s characteristic blend of irreverence, strategic savvy, and sharp humor. Whether you want inside-the-beltway analysis or a laugh at the excesses of political “influencers,” this episode has you covered — and leaves listeners with plenty of food for thought about 2028 and beyond.

Transcript

[Josh Holmes]

Is AOC a serious candidate for President of the United States? If you think for a second that the Democrats would not nominate AOC to be their 2028 candidate, you are insane.

[Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez (AOC)]

The American Revolution was against the billionaires of their time and we are declaring independence from such an extreme marriage of wealth and power and the state.

[Johnny]

They love to on ignorance about history and use that ignorance for a liberal talking point.

[Michael Duncan]

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[Johnny]

Ladies and gentlemen, your attention please. This program has become one of the

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

most influential podcasts in America.

[Michael Duncan]

I love the personality. You guys are killing it. I just saw your number one. Congratulations.

[Josh Holmes]

It's an honor and a pleasure to welcome the great Sean Hannity.

[Johnny]

Guys, I love you.

[Josh Holmes]

Congratulations on all your success. This is why you listen to the

[Michael Duncan]

Ruthless Podcast because nobody else would ask that question. The only political podcast worth listening to is the Ruthless Podcast.

[Johnny]

It's time for our main event, the Ruthless Podcast.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, let's have a Tuesday. Welcome back to the Ruthless Friday program. I'm Josh Holmes along with Michael Duncan and John Ashbrook. Hope everybody is doing well. Have a great Mother's Day weekend. When we come back to however, is Democrats sort of reorganizing themselves in the face of a disappointing week? Last week and there was a lot of discussion, some of which we led and participated in, about the Republican side and what it looks like in 2028 and beyond. And there was a Rubio thing that we discussed. And nice job on Fox News Sunday, I might say, fellas, you look great.

[Michael Duncan]

Thank you.

[Josh Holmes]

Very distinguished.

[Johnny]

Yeah. Well, listen, Shannon makes everybody look better.

[Josh Holmes]

She does. She does make everybody look better. Shows are a little different than they were when we were kids, though, allowing people like us to show up and things like that. But now the Democrats have got two problems. One is this Virginia situation, of which there was hysterical reaction on the Democratic side that. I mean, it just tells you how poisonous that they've become. And we're gonna get to all that. But they're also trying to sort out the top of the ticket. We've talked a lot about how there is no real leadership within the Democratic Party. You've got Hakeem Jeffries in the House, Chuck Schumer in the Senate. They're largely trying to sit on top of a tinderbox that has been lit aflame by the Hamas caucus, by the communists and Socialists side. And they're just trying to pretend they're fighting.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Like that whole thing is like kayfabe fighting, almost professional wrestling style fighting, when

[Johnny]

we all know that they're just doing whatever the Democrat socialists want them to do.

[Josh Holmes]

Exactly is the case. And so AOC is an interesting cog in that wheel because she has been now for several years, sort of the face of the resistance left. And then to everybody in the center. In the center right and the conservative, it's laughable because you know that she doesn't know shit from shinola, but she's more than happy to talk to any camera that ever appears before her. And she's got some Riz.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

You know, she's got. She has some capability of communicating with people, and certainly within the constituency of the progressive left, she's a hero.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, I mean, if you're a baseball manager and you're running the Democratic Party, she's sort of your cleanup hitter. She's dependable. And they've tried other candidates here for a while. Gavin Newsom.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, right.

[Michael Duncan]

I call him Gavin losam.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

Losing Mr. Trump, if you're listening. There was jazzy Jazz.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, right. Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

And then they sort of pivoted to Abigail Spamberger as the future of the Democrat Party. Everything. Yeah, Everything happened in Virginia. And there's been a little shine off that penny crowd.

[Josh Holmes]

They don't like the fake in it.

[Michael Duncan]

No.

[Josh Holmes]

They just want to give it to you. Straight.

[Michael Duncan]

The real deal.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, it's. It's uncut.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Which again is interesting when you consider the re raising of her profile. Not that it needed re raising, but she's back out there. And it comes at an interesting moment because the Democratic Party is sort of, ah, it's all over the place. It's primary season. You've got Michigan Senate race that I think is a pretty good example of like a three way, three different views of the Democratic Party. We'll see how that whole thing pans out. They've settled Maine, where you have Graham Plantner as the AOC candidate who's prevailed there over the wishes of Chuck Schumer and Democrats who wish to. To have someone that's not entirely insane trying to represent them. And AOC comes back to the four. I want to get your reaction to a couple of clips that, well, it just reminds you a. How serious they are about her. And if you think for a second that the Democrats would not nominate AOC to be their 2028 candidate, you are insane. But also listen to what she says, which tells you where the Democratic Party is. I think it might be more instructive clip.

[Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez (AOC)]

There are very few, like, real archetypes of, in my opinion, truly what America is all about. I think about the civil rights and voting rights movement and how black Americans really created democracy in this country.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

That's right.

[Josh Holmes]

That's exactly right.

[Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez (AOC)]

How they literally made something from nothing.

[Michael Duncan]

Okay.

[Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez (AOC)]

It is just beyond me.

[Johnny]

Mm. Very deep.

[Josh Holmes]

Did you catch that?

[Johnny]

I mean, here's one of AOC's biggest problems. Okay. I do think she wants to be their standard bearer in 2028. Her biggest problem, Kamala Harris. We talk about this on the show. We're like, oh, no, please, Democrats nominate Kamala. The reality is that Kamala is still the frontrunner among Democrats. And if you talk to Democrat consultants, they say that, man, Kamala still has the infrastructure, she still has money, she still has this name ID and sort of like imagination of our base. And AOC is running against Kamala Harris right now.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah. I guess I love most in that clip that she has to fast forward to the civil rights movement to find an archetype for America that, that, that's not the founding fathers. Not like, I don't know, Abraham Lincoln, if you wanted to talk about civil rights or anything. No.

[Josh Holmes]

Right.

[Michael Duncan]

Because, I mean, we know what she's doing there.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, yeah. Well, Abe was a Republican. That's a problem.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

For sure. But the sort of commitment to a historical.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Foundation for her arguments I mean, look, if anybody else showed up on the scene and made that argument, what you would say is this is just a pandering to a segment of the electorate that they want to lock down for a presidential run. Because nobody could take that seriously. There's no black American who's like, yeah, we invented democracy in 1960. Like, nobody says that. But I, I think she actually, like, there are elements of her and the crazy shit that she said that might believe that. And Bernie could never sell that vision. Right. Because he'd been around for 36 years. He was an avowed socialist. He had traveled to Russia, he had done. He had OG like McGovern style democratic socialists. Right.

[Michael Duncan]

And then he also sort of, he, he's hesitant to wage into the race based culture war stuff because he sees that as fracturing a solidarity of a working class coalition he wants to build. AOC is less encumbered by that old school Marxist way of looking at international solidarity.

[Josh Holmes]

100%.

[Johnny]

You know, and Bernie caught heat over the weekend. I don't know if you guys saw this. The executive director or somebody connected with Congressional Black Caucus attacked Bernie for not saying anything about redistricting.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Johnny]

I don't know if you guys saw this.

[Michael Duncan]

No, I saw it. I mean, that's how they undermined Bernie in 2016 and handed the nomination to Hillary Clinton. I mean, that's what the Congressional Black Caucus helped do, by the way, because the Congressional Black Caucus and the black establishment in the Democrat Party hates Bernie and has been in the tank for the Democratic establishment for a very long time. I mean, look at what Jim Clyburn did for Joe Biden in 20 in South Carolina.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, well, because at some point along the way, along the journey, it became less about representing black Americans so much as it is progressive, leftist, Democrat, big D views. And they saw that and continue to see that is inextricably tied. They see black Americans and they see a leftist voting bloc. They don't see their interests, they don't see representation of them. They see how many Democratic seats we can get out of that because that we own that situation. We don't actually have to do anything. And AOC here is doing something different, which is basically reinventing history, to try to take Bernie to like a 2.0 level, which is also introducing racial angst, racial anxiety and all these kind of things to sort of separate out your ideology from your identity piece and try to grab both. Which is interesting.

[Michael Duncan]

It is interesting because I think it

[Josh Holmes]

works right now in the Democratic Party. And so we got to see more clip clip 2.

[Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez (AOC)]

There's a certain level of wealth and accumulation that is unearned, right? You can't earn a billion dollars.

[Josh Holmes]

That's right.

[Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez (AOC)]

You just can't earn that. You can, you can get market power, you can break rules, you can do all sorts of things, you can abuse labor laws, you can pay people less than what they're worth, but you can't earn that. Right. And so you have to create a myth that since you didn't earn that, you have to create a myth of earning it.

[Josh Holmes]

I can't get over the whole presentation, but what's your reaction?

[Michael Duncan]

Well, in a free market economy, there's no such thing as paying people lower than they're worth because you live by free association and people choose to do jobs. Nope. There is no slavery in the United States of America.

[Josh Holmes]

Right.

[Michael Duncan]

So the very concept of wage theft or exploiting workers is. It doesn't exist. It just frankly doesn't exist. But it's her way of using all of the nomenclature of today to basically regurgitate the old Marxist theory of labor value.

[Josh Holmes]

It's totally right, Johnny.

[Johnny]

I mean, you know, when I think of billionaires, I think of George Soros, I think of people who are backing Democrats and the socialists who want to ruin this country and all they care about is power. So like, I understand that she has some talking points that seem to fit the mold of today and what today's Democrats want, but the reality is that it's entirely backed by the billionaires globally who want to ruin our country and will stop at nothing to do it.

[Josh Holmes]

I think is just like way more insidious than all of that. In that what she's doing is grasping a concept that most middle Americans gravitate towards, which is an honest day's work for an honest days pay. And then erasing the idea of how an economy, I'm not even saying a modern economy, but any economy works, which is like we all know in the billionaires that I've met and watched operate and whatever, these are truly special one of one type people because they're willing to take risks that normal people would not. Right? They are taking immeasurable risks that if you were to present to your average human being, me, the three of us sitting up here smug, we would be like, dude, ah, I could end up completely bankrupt by all of this. But they're willing to do that at some level. But then you, something works for all the things that fail, something works and you begin to build out and scale what it is that you're doing. And what she's saying is that the scale in and of itself, building something in and of itself should have no reward. That, that you shouldn't be able to build anything.

[Michael Duncan]

Right. Taking the risk, making the investment, losing your shirt five times before you succeed, all of that means nothing.

[Josh Holmes]

It's the idea that you come in and punch the union card and slide down the dinosaur back every day is the only way that culture should work. Which inherently means that you have understanding of a modern economy, nor how it is that America continues to be the leader of the free world, nor is it that you see any innovation whatsoever. And this isn't like an AI argument by any stretch of the imagination, but it's everything that we've done since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution.

[Michael Duncan]

And I think this is an important point. And you were talking about sliding down the dinosaur and all of that. And like when you're just building a widget or working in a factory, it's a very tangible thing. But in a modern economy, which many of the things you make are digital. Right. Or is a, is a service, you have to quickly understand that the Marxist theory of labor and all of this really plays into the narcissism of self in that, like, I know what my work is, should be valued.

[Johnny]

Yes.

[Michael Duncan]

Right. So for somebody who's working a 9 to 5 and feels like their boss makes too much relative to them, it plays into a grievance. It's a grievance politics thing. But in a modern economy especially, your value is determined by the rest of the market. What you're doing for other people is what you are worth.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

What the thing you produce or create is worth to other people is the value of your labor.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

Not what you determine it by the number of hours you put in.

[Josh Holmes]

And I understand the frustration. Believe me, I understand the frustration. Not growing up with a, a mill in the bank and all that other stuff. Like, I understand the frustration of somebody who's looking at like second generations and third generations of wealth in this country of people who aren't earning.

[Michael Duncan]

Right.

[Josh Holmes]

Much of anything. And I get that. But to, to disincentivize innovation and to disincentivize your productivity to try to get better is to eliminate the American dream at some level. Like, don't, don't point to one thing that's your grievance and try to create an economic policy around it because it has no. It literally could ruin this country in one generation. I'm being honest about that. Like, I generally think that if people like AOC had their hands on power with a COD lock on Congress and could pass laws. I really believe we could be Greece, we could be worse, because we have a lot more diversity than the countries that have gone tits up.

[Johnny]

Well, she's surrounded by the kind of people who firmly believe that real communism has never been tried. This is what they like to say over and over again. And then when you mention, hey, what about Cuba? What about the fact that they are like, completely under the thumb of a terrible government? And they're like, ah, no, the reason why Cuba's in such bad shape is because the capitalist societies aren't sending all of their overflow to that communist society to boost it up so that the government connected people are able to live luxuriously as the way they'd like to live.

[Josh Holmes]

The real secret to that, though, is the communist society that's running things.

[Johnny]

That's exactly right. And you get glimpses of that when you look at places like California, for example. The people who are running the NGOs that are so close to the government are the ones who are making the most money. Like the way that a communist society is set up. They want you to believe that you, little guy, have a shot at being equal to everybody else except the people at the top, the people in the bureaucracy, the people who are running it are the ones who are super rich and getting richer and you're just sort of plugging away and you've, you're expected to like it.

[Michael Duncan]

So you ever watch on YouTube, old Phil Donahue show clips? Yeah, they're fantastic, by the way. I wish we still had daytime television like that in this country. But there's a great series that he did with Milton Friedman, you know, the famed.

[Johnny]

Yeah, yeah, economist.

[Michael Duncan]

And at one point he asks Friedman, you know, what people like seeing people make money, but then there's greed and, you know, the market's sort of determined by greed. And his response to that, rhetorically is like, do you think the Soviet commissar is not motivated by greed? Do you think the government bureaucrat isn't motivated by greed? They want more of your tax money. And it's like, who do you think are these angels who are going to plan society for us? Of course there isn't an answer, but

[Josh Holmes]

it's been time tested. Yeah, so now she kind of weaves the two concepts together. Next clip, please.

[Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez (AOC)]

The American Revolution was against the billionaires of their time. And we are declaring independence from such an extreme marriage of wealth and power and the state.

[Michael Duncan]

Hmm.

[Josh Holmes]

What is she talking about? Is she Confusing or conflating? She's not confusing. She's conflating the King of England for a billionaire of their time. Like, what is she. What I don't understand.

[Johnny]

Well, here's the thing that Democrats, first

[Josh Holmes]

of all, billionaires didn't exist. But second of all, like she does the rhetorical in their time, I can only assume she's talking about the American Revolution.

[Johnny]

Democrats love to play on ignorance about history and there is plenty of it thanks to the public school system in this country. They love to play on ignorance about history and use that ignorance for a liberal talking point. And everything that they pull out, whether it's James Talarico saying God is bisexual or whatever the hell it fucking says, or whether it's AOC saying that, you know what the American Revolution was really about? My message as a socialist running for president. This is what they love to do. And it works because so many people are uneducated about what has actually happened throughout history.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, I love the idea that the billionaires, which of course didn't exist at the time of the American Revolution, were the ones calling for taxes on tea and the Stamp act and like it's, it's, it's just exactly complete bullshit.

[Josh Holmes]

What it was about was power, which is what she's seeking.

[Michael Duncan]

Yes.

[Josh Holmes]

And that is, I think, what undergirds the entirety of the argument, which is I'll play on your grievance. I will misunderstand history, I will conflate what economic theory is, but in the end it's about whether I have power and I'm speaking vernacular that relates to what you're talking about rather than running a country. And, and this is, I think you pulled this one, but at the summation of. This is fantastic. Let's go to the next clip.

[Michael Duncan]

There are a lot of people who would like you to run for president in 2028.

[Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez (AOC)]

You know, it's funny because in this op ed that Jeff Bezos paid for

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

in the Washington Post,

[Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez (AOC)]

there was this line that you had mentioned earlier about, well, as a potential 2028 contender, XYZ. And in the context of that, it was very clear this was a veiled threat.

[Josh Holmes]

Right.

[Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez (AOC)]

So the elite saying, if you want this job, you just stepped out of line and we want you to know where the real power is. They assume that my ambition is positional. They assume that my ambition is a title or a seat. And my ambition is way bigger than that. My ambition is to change this country. Senate, House seats, elected officials come and go, but single payer healthcare is forever.

[Josh Holmes]

So first observation is that she is somebody who is under attack.

[Michael Duncan]

Right. By Elite Powers.

[Josh Holmes]

Elite Powers, as she sits at the University of Chicago, knee to knee with David Axelrod, who of course is the architect of Barack Obama's two term presidency. And nobody wants to hear from what this woman wants to say. Like, she's too controversial. They want to shut her up. And yet there she finds herself, unbelievably in this situation where she's able to speak freely.

[Michael Duncan]

Oh, she acts like she's like on the picket line. She's a longshoreman on the docks. Like, it's just, it's insane. Right. She's at the Institute of Politics talking David Axelrod. And I also noticed on Twitter this was being amplified by the Pod Bros. I saw Jon Favreau famously worked for Obama, was talking about how this was the greatest answer he'd seen to this question.

[Johnny]

She wants so much more than a job. She wants our health care system to be like Canada's.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Johnny]

The great ambitions of aoc.

[Josh Holmes]

But it tells you a lot about the Democratic Party. The reason we lead the show with it on a Tuesday, which we, you know, we traditionally do some serious stuff on Tuesday. Get your mind right for the week, is that this is the modern state of the Democratic Party. If you think that AOC is too crazy for these people, you didn't see who she was sitting down with. That's David Axelrod. He's currently hosting the tryout session. And then you've got Favreau. Both Axelrod and Favreau, who are only people that you've heard of because of Barack Obama and their efforts to not only get him elected, but do what he did as president, who's amplifying all of that. And it's because that they recognize that there is a progressive basis, no more than 15% of our country, by the way, that wants socialism, communism, racial strife, all of these things within our country's borders. And they are the driving force behind the Democratic Party today. So therefore, like, don't take the. This is not one of those things where AOC is like, oh, let's see what crazy things she says. They are perfectly prepared to nominate this woman for president, United States.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, and of course they are, because this is really just a continuation of Obama's vision of America here, saying there, I want to change the country. You know, harken back to the days of Obama saying, I want to transform America. Right. Like he just couldn't do it at the time. The politics were inconvenient. Remember when he passed Obamacare. He wanted socialized medicine. He wanted the public option, and that didn't happen. And he was disappointed. And then Joe Biden famously said, still a big fucking deal. Remember that?

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, totally. Well, I mean, he ran for president as somebody who was against gay marriage.

[Michael Duncan]

Right.

[Josh Holmes]

You know, I mean, he had to do the politics of the day, kind

[Michael Duncan]

of the original Abigail Spamberger, when you think about it, a lot for real.

[Johnny]

But I think. I think that you're exactly right. I think the, like, the axle rods and the pod saves are all sitting behind home plate with the speed gun, and they're all looking at what each of these candidates can offer. It's literally a scouting mission. And they are concerned that Kamala Harris is still polling at the top of their. Top of their party. They know that she's a disaster. They foisted her upon us in 2024. Thank God Trump beat her.

[Michael Duncan]

Do you think that's why Favreau wants the autopsy out so badly?

[Johnny]

Probably because it probably says point number one, Kamala's a disaster.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, you can kind of see where this is going a little bit. You know, I mean, the Democratic establishment has been very critical of Kamala, and Kamala Harris is currently leading by a lot. And she's done things like we covered in the last couple of weeks about going and anchoring in with the black community and doesn't seem to be going anywhere. And, like, you gotta start pushing on that a little bit if you're a Democrat and you don't have an inroad into the Kamala universe. So, aoc, don't think for a second they're not serious about this. They are. It leads us to our question of the day. We were going to do one. I'm going to change it up a little bit. So when you like and subscribe to the Ruthless Variety program, we read all of them. And I mean that like. And subscribe. Don't. Don't just, like, blow through it and give us a comment. Like, subscribe and then give us your comment, because we read all of those. But when you do, this is a serious question. Like, is AOC a serious candidate for President of the United States? You give us our thoughts. Listen, we laid out what we view it as, but we'd be interested from your neck of the woods what that ultimately is. And we'll get back to you on Thursday with the questions when we come up. We've got a ton of stuff after this. We're gonna have some fun. We might even play a game. But Gavin, Newsom back in the headlines and we've got Democrats reaction to the Virginia thing. Oh, my God. This is like, you can't. These people are. They've lost it right after this.

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[Josh Holmes]

Okay, so the first person that Democrats tried on for size here Post 2024 was Gavin Newsome. And he elevated himself and he wanted, you know, he did interviews with like, Charlie and with all kinds of conservative figures where he's attempting to like, understand lessons learned from the Democrat side. And then that lasted like, I don't know, three, four months and decided to just like.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, I mean it only would have been successful if he had the Men in Black neuralyzer, you know, because there was tape of him for years engaging in all this far left, you know, woke identity politics bullshit that he claimed he'd never done.

[Josh Holmes]

100%. This is a perfect example. So this one just, just came up. Gavin Newsom's $20 million diaper diaper deal torn apart with shocking figures. Peak stupidity. That was in the New York Post. Newsom announced the Golden State Start initiative on Friday, a partnership with nonprofit Baby Da Baby that will give every newborn delivered in participating hospitals 400 diapers for free. Baby 2 baby itself sits comfortably inside California's interconnected political and celebrity nonprofit culture. One of its CEOs, Nora Weinstein is also listed in its leadership with Jennifer Sibel Newsom's California California Business Partners project. Oh, that's interesting.

[Michael Duncan]

So sure that's a coincidence.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, fascinating that his wife has got interest in what appears to be a non. Well, I don't think it's bidded upon. This is just sort of happened. The diaper project has come under fire for using 7.4 million in taxpayer cash from 2005 and 2006, as well as seeking 12.5 million for the next year. There's this cat who argued that it'd be cheaper to hand every low income new mom $100 in cash and told her to go to Costco and that they would save 50 cents per diaper if they just did that. 100,000 babies, 400 diapers, 40 million diapers. That's the math. As this guy has explained. $20 million divided by $40 million, 50 cents a diaper. Now walk into any California, you can buy the same diaper for 12 cents or 15 cents. I mean, that's just math. I, I didn't know that there were Democrats that did that, frankly.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, I think the problem is you're trying to solve the problem. And the reality is, for most of the Democratic establishment, the goal isn't to solve the problem. It's typically to make it worse. And if you're not making it worse, it's to create a slush fund so you can host cocktail parties and galas and pat each other on the back about what great people you are and then do something at three times the cost. I mean, that's typically how their politics works.

[Johnny]

Again, they always say real communism has never been tried. What Josh just read is communism in the flesh. People who are connected to the power centers of society get rich and you're just downstream of it. What Gavin Newsom is doing in California and what the liberals are doing in California is exactly what AOC's government would do to America if given the chance.

[Josh Holmes]

Look at communism. That is what you just explained is exactly what it is. It's not that everybody is the same and that the state sort of rewards the standard of living. It's your proximity to power that separate. That's the new hierarchy. Which, by the way, not for nothing, was the reason America was founded.

[Johnny]

Exactly.

[Josh Holmes]

It's the reason we had this country.

[Johnny]

Which is ironic because it's the opposite of what AOC claimed.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, I also have a crazy idea, and that is if you start a non profit, the whole idea around fundraising for a nonprofit is that people want to do it.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

Not that the government forces them to give them tax money so that they can give it to the nonprofit. If the nonprofit needs to exist, it's because there's a fundraising base to sustain its existence. That's what it doesn't exist. So the government can then take your money and give it to the ones they prefer.

[Josh Holmes]

You mean philanthropy is about doing good?

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, weird.

[Michael Duncan]

Isn't that weird?

[Josh Holmes]

What a strange concept.

[Michael Duncan]

I do feel like this, you know, we've talked a lot about this political NGO industrial complex or whatever, but this is obviously a problem and we've identified a lot here in the ruthless variety program. I think sort of globally, we really need to take a look at how much of our tax dollars through the federal government and state governments go to nonprofits, just in general, because if you look at the way the government works, you may notice that over the last 20 years, actual government employee employees have not kept up with the size of the government. You wonder why. And it's because they take your tax money and they pump it through these nonprofits to collect, you know, entities that are close to the government or to the people, people in power or wherever, or they hire all these consultants at for profit companies to do the job that these federal employees were hired to do. And so you end up with this very complicated Rube Goldberg experiment of a government where you don't have any accountability and it costs three times more.

[Josh Holmes]

One of two issues is responsible for Democrat fundraising advantages at a candidate level. One is that you've got a totally corrupt act Blue system that fundraises off of foreign money. And it, it is unscrupulous about breaking the rules, or at very least looking the other way, while unscrupulous actors use their platform to do it right.

[Michael Duncan]

That's possible.

[Josh Holmes]

The second is what you just outlined, which is if you build an entire community that is basically the runoff of taxpayer dollars, where their livelihoods and livelihoods of everybody around them are intrinsically linked back to taxpayer dollars. These NGOs where the only way for them to actually survive is to funnel it back into Democratic politics. That is honestly in the worst iterations of American history. The problem with our constitutional republic and our way of doing business around here, and they pretend like that's like the constitutional republic. No, the problem is you're corrupt. You're corrupt. And this is a perfect example of that. How is it that somebody who's like buddies with the governor's wife decides to send a diaper initiative, which sounds great, but they're just buying diapers at 75% more than you can get diapers, and they've got government contracts. How is that possible?

[Michael Duncan]

You're telling me that California doesn't have a state Medicaid building that can source diapers cheaper than this?

[Josh Holmes]

Of course.

[Michael Duncan]

Give them to hospitals. Think about just give them to the hospitals and then they give them when the new moms go home. I mean, I'm not for spending more taxpayer money. But if you're gonna do it, it seems pretty straightforward. I could draw you a map. There's two steps, you know. Right.

[Josh Holmes]

No, it's not particularly complicated, but that's what these people are up to. So then you fast forward and we start looking at Virginia and you just knew. You just knew that the entire House Democrat progressive bent in Akeem Jeffries, dumb ass. We're going to have to figure out a way to address what just happened to them. They spent $100 million attempting to just steal the voting rights of Virginians and turn what is a 6, 5 delegation into a 101 delegation. Turns out they didn't follow any of the rules. Jason Miariz has been a guest on the program for former attorney general, laid all this out for him last October. Like, the Supreme Court's going to rule against you if you, if you try to do this. And they're like, go yourself, Louise, what's her name? And Lucas. Lucas and everybody else were like, you know, chairs. Just watch while I do it. Well, she does it. They run it up the flagpole. It gets a slim majority to win the thing. And the Supreme Court is like, look, we'd like to be with you. They're a Democrat group. We'd like to be with you. But you didn't follow any of the fucking laws.

[Michael Duncan]

In fact, the irony, the absolute irony of the situation that you had Democratic lawyers in court at the Virginia Supreme Court saying election day, because again, just the background here is that the, the legislature passed, you know, that they were going to put this on the ballot when early voting was already going on in the 2025 election. But then he had Democratic lawyers have to argue that only election day counts.

[Josh Holmes]

Right?

[Michael Duncan]

Like all the early voting that had already happened. And so voters didn't have all of the information at the time. That doesn't count. Early voting, absentee by mail, none of that counts. Only election day counts, which is against like the entire orthodoxy of the last five years of their party, but hilarious. And then they still fucking lose.

[Josh Holmes]

And they still fucking lose. And so now they've come up with a bunch of thoughtful people that they're going to. They're going to figure out a way out of this mess that they've created for themselves. There's a professor year gain declared on substack that there is a simple and lawful solution. You send the entire court into early retirement.

[Michael Duncan]

Simple, yeah, under this plan.

[Josh Holmes]

And the New York Times reported all this stuff first. But this is an analysis by a literally great Legal scholar in our view, Jonathan Turley at Fox News. But like I've been following this guy. He's. Everybody's sort of said like he's a Republican. He's not a Republican. This is not a Republican.

[Johnny]

No, he's not.

[Josh Holmes]

He just reads law and interprets it anyway. He says under this plan, Virginia Democrats would have adopt an absurdly low age for retirement. In a gut and pack scheme, Year Gain suggested that they could set the mandatory retirement age of justices after they reach a prescribed age which beyond which shall not serve regardless of the term. And their retirement age currently is 73. What they'd like to do is turn it to 54. And what that does, what that does is kick them all off the court.

[Johnny]

Just insanity.

[Josh Holmes]

The age of the youngest justice, Steve McCullough, who joined the majority opinion. And that's what made it effectively a decision. So. So they're going all the way down, right? They're going all the way down to the youngest justice. Throwing them all out. How does that actually impact it? I think that the way that they suggest is throwing the first black woman Supreme Court justice of Virginia out of her seat and repacking the court with someone else who's just going to say what they're doing is legal.

[Michael Duncan]

Of course they would, because Democrats always prove out the maxim that they only care about power. There's no fake principle that they will maintain if it comes between them and power. I mean, they would do an entire court packing scheme, invalidate all these Supreme Court judges just to win this map because that's all they care about is power. We've said that for years here on the Ruthless Variety program. So if you ever think that Democrats won't use every tool in the toolbox, they will.

[Josh Holmes]

They will absolutely do it. But think about what that does.

[Johnny]

I mean, if you mean the age of 54.

[Josh Holmes]

No.

[Johnny]

Or just that aside insane.

[Josh Holmes]

That aside, every time you don't get a judicial decision, which by the way, is the whole purpose of the courts, it is after all, a balance of power. But every time you don't get the decision that you want, what you do is summarily ruin the branch that is given a decision that you don't like. And what would that do? Like if they followed through with this, And I have no doubt that there are significant numbers of people who are involved in this that would like to do this. Imagine the scenario. What is the message that that gives to everyone across the country that like people in power, they're just gonna do what they're gonna do? That ceases to be a representative democracy at some level.

[Johnny]

Right. And let's not pretend like Democrats don't get what they want from the courts at least half the time. I mean, think about the way Trump spent his first year in office of federal courts saying, oh, you can't, you can't deport those people.

[Michael Duncan]

The injunctions. Yeah.

[Johnny]

You can't build that. You can't cut that funding through Doge. It's not like Democrats aren't getting their way in courts some of the time. And now they're going to like, arbitrarily reduce the age to 54. By the way, Kamala Harris, in case you're wondering, she's 61. She would not be eligible to serve on the Virginia Supreme Court because she would be too old. This is their standard bearer for President of the United States. But think about how Democrats literally just want to change the rules every time they don't get their way. They whine and whine and whine unless they get their power. And I feel like in America now, I think AOC could be a very, very competitive candidate for them. But our, our society has changed a little bit to the point where they're, I think our society is like, we're not going to give you everything you want every single time. Like, just because you whine that you're not in power in every single thing doesn't mean that we have to give it to you every single.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, but this playbook's as old as the Democratic Party itself. FDR tried this thing, same thing when he was President, United States, when he tried his cork packing scheme, and it was a constitutional crisis. And that was all because he was trying to pass all these New Deal programs that couldn't get the United Supreme Court. So, like, you know, I don't really care what the Democrats try to do here. What I do care about is how Republicans respond.

[Josh Holmes]

I totally agree.

[Michael Duncan]

And I hope this is a clarifying moment for Republican leadership that you have to know the rules of the game. And the rules of the game is that they're going to make up the rules, okay? So be prepared to be ruthless, because you have to be.

[Josh Holmes]

It's well said. It's well said. All right, one more story we got to get to because this one really caught my eyes from the Daily Mail. There's a Democratic candidate in Orange County.

[Michael Duncan]

Oh, yes, California.

[Johnny]

Okay.

[Josh Holmes]

Yes. The Daily Mail reported the Democrat candidate vehemently denies sordid claims that she made staff squeeze her fake boobs in an all hands meeting.

[Johnny]

What a headline.

[Josh Holmes]

Can we pop the graphic up? Okay. There she is. Her name is Janet Keough. Conklin.

[Michael Duncan]

I knew you were going to have a graphic. Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Why? You just simply must, Right? Because you need to get a flavor if you're the audience. If you're on audio only, this would be a good time to flip over to see what it is that we're dealing with. I don't think it's anything untoward or offensive. No, but, you know, it is what it is. She's a candidate. So, anyway, what happened was the California Democrat running for Orange county assessor. She's running for the assessor. Has been accused of making staffers grab her fake breasts as well as using campaign funds for own personal expense. That's sort of a secondary issue, which seems to be pretty much par for the course with Democratic candidates these days. Two of the staffers who requested anonymity to protect their careers told the outlet during the campaign meeting that Conklin grabbed their hands and placed them on her breasts. Quote, she was telling us about how her breasts were not real and that she has no feeling in her nipples. You know, it's sort of a finder. You do a lot of research on a campaign, and she apparently tasked these staffers with something different than looking into the crosstabs. Staffers added that we didn't want to touch her at all in that aspect, but that she essentially forced them by moving their hands without their consent. He added that Conklin told the other staffer, who is a woman, give it a squeeze.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, like, look, I think it's important to remind our audience. It's important to remind our audience that she is running for assessor. And all she asked was for her campaign staff to assess the quality of the boob job.

[Josh Holmes]

I think that's part of the role.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Assessing.

[Michael Duncan]

It's like Consumer Reports. You know, you open up that magazine and you're looking for all the details. Is this thing worth it? That's all she was doing.

[Josh Holmes]

Now she also. They take it a step further when they say that Conklin asked her to organize. This woman to ask. Organize files on two phones and joked that she should avoid dick pictures.

[Michael Duncan]

Okay.

[Johnny]

All right.

[Josh Holmes]

While going through the device, candidate said she was alluding to a lewd photograph that she had received from a client.

[Michael Duncan]

Wait, wait, hold on. Yeah, hold on. A random client.

[Josh Holmes]

That's what. That's what this. This article alleges.

[Michael Duncan]

Senator Crotch shot.

[Josh Holmes]

I guess, like we say, you know, you don't do that just one time to a public official like that's, that's something that it's proven useful. Dude.

[Johnny]

What, what the hell is going on with Democrats? You know, I mean, I just feel like everybody says, oh, Republicans are gonna get be in the minority after this election because it's so unpopular, but Democrats aren't exactly popular themselves. And when you look at people like Janet Keough Conklin from California, you think about Democrats who have absolute power in every state that they represent. They think they can get away with everything, and they continue to try. And I think that until there is some sort of check put on that party, they're going to continue to do stuff like this. And, you know, I mean, from a podcast perspective, it certainly creates a lot of great content.

[Josh Holmes]

So you don't, you don't see this as a generous offering by a candidate?

[Johnny]

I. Look, listen, I agree with what Duncan said. You know, I. Maybe she's just simply trying to assess whether each of her staffers is competent to apply for a job in the assessor's office, but maybe she's just another Democrat from California who thinks she can get away with anything.

[Josh Holmes]

It's interesting. It's interesting.

[Michael Duncan]

You know that magazine, the In Flight magazine? You get in the back of the seat when you're traveling on the airplane and it'll say, like, top plastic surgeons in la, wherever. I imagine next time I read one of those, I'm going to find a test and testimonial from miss Conklin about her. The great work of some plastic surgeon.

[Josh Holmes]

I feel like you have to pay for those, though. It's like the Most Powerful People by Washingtonian. Yeah, like the favorite part. Like, Top Lawyers was a good one. Top Docs is another always in the in flight thing. Washingtonian does a thing.

[Johnny]

Best steakhouse, most powerful people.

[Josh Holmes]

It's like, yeah, it just cost you like 35 grand, right? And you can be the most powerful. I feel like the testimonial is not going to go as far as they want it to.

[Michael Duncan]

Aside from the numbness, great work.

[Josh Holmes]

All right, fellas, when we come back, it's time for a game. A rare Tuesday game, but we neglected King of the Hill last week, so you're getting it right up front right after this. Okay. It's a little bit more difficult with a three man squad here in that you rotate immediately. I was hoping for another week off

[Michael Duncan]

if I'm being Frank Smug's taking plenty of weeks off for all of us,

[Josh Holmes]

so I gotta get involved. And of course I'm gonna, I'm gonna

[Michael Duncan]

bring Sherry Macheri and I have the defending champion.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

Adam King.

[Josh Holmes]

Zinger and Smash. Our beloved justice sits down there in the end red, ready to render a verdict.

[Johnny]

Very fair. Fairest justice this court has ever seen. Much fairer than Michael Duncan.

[Michael Duncan]

We'll see. Let's go ringside.

[Johnny]

Ladies and gentlemen, your attention please. It's time for king of the hill. In the red corner, fighting for a chance to reclaim her crown, Kami Cherry Jacob. And now in the blue corner, fighting from his own Twitter account, Pan champion of the world, Adam Zinger.

[Michael Duncan]

It's good.

[Josh Holmes]

That was really, really good. It's always good.

[Michael Duncan]

Before we begin, can I point something out?

[Josh Holmes]

Okay.

[Michael Duncan]

How is it. Maybe it's just the timing. How is it that you always end up playing Sherry, My chair?

[Josh Holmes]

I don't think. How does that work?

[Michael Duncan]

How does that work?

[Josh Holmes]

I don't think that's true. I think I've been very diverse in my selections.

[Michael Duncan]

You always just pick her up from the gutter and put her back in the game.

[Josh Holmes]

I don't know. I'm just saying, like. Like, you know. Now, just as a reminder to the audience, our typical seven days has been extended here, but we're not adding new elements since last Thursday when we have played. So I'm not complaining.

[Michael Duncan]

I'm just saying it's like she's always on the bench whenever you need her. Yeah, well, you know, look, she's like Robert Ori. It's unbelievable.

[Johnny]

Okay, council.

[Michael Duncan]

Okay. I'm just trying to add a little.

[Josh Holmes]

Adding Bailiff.

[Michael Duncan]

Pageantry.

[Johnny]

Trial bailiffing and maneuvering.

[Josh Holmes]

Judicialing.

[Michael Duncan]

Okay. All right. Well, I will start with just a nuke in round one. Exhibit number four, please. Adam Kinzinger writes, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein. And then it's just a block of Epstein. Sort of like the beginning of the Simpsons when Bart Simpson has to write on the chalkboard and then hidden in the middle of that is Trump lied. That is my submission. Good luck.

[Johnny]

Could you. Do you see what time that was posted?

[Michael Duncan]

I don't have a time on here, Judge.

[Johnny]

Maybe the paralegal could run that down for the court.

[Michael Duncan]

All I know is it's got 4,000 over 4,000 retweets, 13,000 likes.

[Josh Holmes]

It's.

[Michael Duncan]

It's really good engagement farming.

[Josh Holmes]

It's good.

[Michael Duncan]

Thank you.

[Josh Holmes]

But I think we. I think I've got one. They can take nuke to nuke.

[Michael Duncan]

Okay.

[Josh Holmes]

Because typically, you know, the. The whole idea of a challenger, whether you throw it or whether, you know, you play for the previous next two rounds or whether you take it head On. I feel like I can take this one head on. And if I do, you're a deep trouble. Trouble.

[Michael Duncan]

Okay. Usually the commentary comes after the tweet, but okay, I guess I'll allow it. I'll play bailiff since judge doesn't want to.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, he's insulting the court right off the bat. So typical. Yeah, I'm going to let that lie within the capable hands of our.

[Michael Duncan]

So the exhibit number seven, please.

[Johnny]

Council will suspend.

[Josh Holmes]

So this comes immediately after the indictment of James Comey in which he was in the seashell department indicted for taking a picture and tweeting out 8647. What she has done immediately thereafter is put herself in the same exact legal jeopardy by saying color vision test. What number do you see here? And of course, it's thinly veiled 8647. I find this to be so hilarious on so many counts, not the least of which is she. She's apparently not popular enough to draw

[Michael Duncan]

judicial scrutiny on all of this, but

[Josh Holmes]

she wanted to be involved.

[Michael Duncan]

Do we know the origin of that photo? You know, I'm just sort of curious.

[Josh Holmes]

She's tweeting it out. I, I, I. You'll find this hard to believe. I have not done a, a full.

[Michael Duncan]

You'd have to go to blue sky.

[Josh Holmes]

I would have to go to blue sky and I would have to go find what it is that the origin.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, you'd have, you'd have to get brain damage.

[Johnny]

So this is clearly. Can we throw that back up one more time? This is clearly one of those things that you stare at for 30 seconds and then the number becomes.

[Michael Duncan]

I don't Apparent, I don't think.

[Josh Holmes]

Except this one is not in fact, because just red on green.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

If you're colorblind, like a magic.

[Johnny]

No such luck.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's just gonna throw it out there because she wants you to know that she's wants to be indicted for the same thing.

[Michael Duncan]

Look, I, I, I think it's a good tweet. I don't think it stands up to

[Josh Holmes]

a wallpaper block event up for your decision.

[Michael Duncan]

Because here's the thing.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, the good news is you're not. The judge here is the Democrats avoided

[Michael Duncan]

Epstein for four years when Joe Biden was president. Now they're saying Donald Trump's the pedophile. Who's, who's covering it up?

[Josh Holmes]

We know the history of the argument, Michael.

[Johnny]

I'm wondering if council's paralegal was able to determine what time of day.

[Michael Duncan]

What is this? What do you know the time?

[Josh Holmes]

3:44.

[Michael Duncan]

3:44pm Mid afternoon. I don't know what that tells the judge.

[Josh Holmes]

I don't either, but. But I leave that for his capable hands because I trust in his judgment.

[Johnny]

The listing Epstein's name 37,000 times and then saying Trump lied, I feel like that is what Kinzinger's Twitter feed is all about. And what Tommy Cherry did, this is just what she did with that ridiculous 8647 tweet.

[Michael Duncan]

I've never played an Epstein.

[Josh Holmes]

He is. He is literally operating like Virginia Democrats right now. Doesn't like the decision, so he's going to attack the court. Might even try to dismantle it.

[Michael Duncan]

It's apropos because Boomer Ashbrook siding with you. I should lower the retirement age on this game.

[Johnny]

All right, challenger.

[Josh Holmes]

Okay, okay.

[Johnny]

All right.

[Michael Duncan]

Wins round one.

[Josh Holmes]

We're looking to put this away early if we can go Exhibit 8. Sherry is, in fact, retweeting herself, which, again, it's quality. And she's got something about his poll numbers. And what she says is what Trump is scheming for the midterms will be worse than January 6th, worse than fake assassination attempts, worse than stolen classified documents, worse than anything we can conjure in our minds. He is brutal, violent, murderous dictator. Okay. I feel like I hit the CIA, Like, I hit all of them. It. She just lumped them all into a big mess and gave it to us raw and uncut without any sort of. I mean, it's free basing, essentially.

[Johnny]

Okay, Champion.

[Michael Duncan]

Boop. That's the audio of that warmed over microwave take. That's what that is.

[Josh Holmes]

What.

[Johnny]

What's your play?

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, he's trying to go theatrics to get away from his substance, which this court will not.

[Michael Duncan]

You like how he's telling you what kind of.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, I know. I just know that there's. He's substantive.

[Johnny]

Does the champion have a play or No?

[Michael Duncan]

I do.

[Johnny]

Okay, We've got dead air. You're not supposed to have that in podcasts.

[Michael Duncan]

Exhibit number three, please. Okay. I like this one. Just on a personal level. It's one of my favorites. And so he's, quote, tweeting somebody, unflattering photo of Kinzinger. There's talks of. Of Kinzinger looking bloated. There's talks of drinking and stuff. And basically, you know, the purse. I can't read the whole thing, so I'm just giving you the synopsis. Like, oh, what a fall from grace. Adam, I'm disappointed in you sort of thing. He Decides to quote tweet that. Which. I mean, this is just like a random account.

[Josh Holmes]

H. Man promoting somebody. Shut up. In his mention.

[Johnny]

Right.

[Josh Holmes]

Which.

[Michael Duncan]

Which I think speaks a lot to somebody's mental framework. He writes, ah, I'm sorry you feel betrayed. It makes me sad I triggered you, but hopefully that's why you got sober. Congrats on that. And I do the Jan6 committee again any day and twice on Sunday.

[Josh Holmes]

Commitment.

[Johnny]

So Commie Cherry's tweet was outrageous. Okay. And I was ready to award this round to her until I noticed something in Adam Kinzinger's tweet. If the. If we could put that back up, I'd like to draw your attention to the bottom right hand corner of this random Mr. H1567 that he decided to. To quote tweet. And I noticed that he has bookmarked this guy's tweet about him. The only person on the planet who would bookmark a tweet from some rando bot just trying to get in your head is probably Adam Kinzinger and coming up with some speech that fits within the Twitter confines. The only person who would do that again, Adam Kinzinger.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, this may work. Brutal. This may work to my deficit, but I'm a man of integrity, so I have to.

[Johnny]

You bookmarked it?

[Michael Duncan]

No. I have to ask. Did someone on staff bookmark that tweet? That is what happened.

[Josh Holmes]

This is akin to a golfer moving the golf ball during a backswing and calling a penalty on themselves. It is something I arrive at with great admiration.

[Michael Duncan]

Well.

[Josh Holmes]

And we'll have to see how this ultimately plays itself.

[Johnny]

I share that admiration. And because of your honesty, you win.

[Josh Holmes]

And it's not. We don't even know if it's true.

[Johnny]

This court values honesty.

[Josh Holmes]

I. I'm gonna start just calling flags on myself to see if that's just a precedent. I could be wrong about all this.

[Michael Duncan]

Analysis, the benefits of integrity.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, is that what it is?

[Michael Duncan]

Well, I just demonstrated that.

[Josh Holmes]

Okay, well, let's see.

[Johnny]

What's your play?

[Michael Duncan]

Okay. Exhibit number two. This really is the wheelhouse of Adam Kingzinger, and that is being a famed neocon who cheerleads for Iran every single day. Now, you will remember the War Department launched that Project Freedom about the Strait of Hormuz, and then there was some commentary about it, you know, as they're doing the whole negotiations to end the war, and Kinzinger just tweets out, project freedom. Born May 4, 2026, died May 5, 2026. We hardly knew you.

[Johnny]

Okay.

[Josh Holmes]

An Iran critique. Interesting. All right, let's just end this. Exhibit 10. Sherry is again, quote, tweeting herself where she's linking to an article by herself where she talks about. It's entitled why women don't speak up. And it's a synopsis of some personal experiences that she's had, but primarily because she's a woman. Then she just gets silenced. Right. And the tweet is. I've been shadow banned since Elon took over Twitter. Now, the inference, of course, is what the tweet that she's retweeting is in that women cannot speak up because there are powerful men that seek to silence them and sexually abuse them in many forms and facets. And she is just sort of like, like apropos of nothing, ad homining on Elon that her account is. Is a victim of the same premise.

[Michael Duncan]

So is it her article she posted in that original tweet, or is it somebody else's article about why women don't speak up?

[Josh Holmes]

Well, because I'm adhering to the rules. I'm simply reacting to her.

[Michael Duncan]

But she, quote, tweeted her previous post of this article.

[Josh Holmes]

Yes, and her previous post was not only the title of the article, but then a synopsis at the beginning of the article. Whether it is from her or not. It is. In fact, I'm told it is.

[Michael Duncan]

You know what's so funny about this? Look, all this is conjecture, and I don't know, but I think it's funny because I think she just wrote that whole thing and posted it just so she could, quote, tweet it and complain about Elon. I don't think she cares about sexual harassment or any of these sorts of things. She just went through this just elaborate maneuver just so she could talk about Elon Musk, but also just injecting Elon

[Josh Holmes]

into this conversation apropos of nothing is just next level stuff.

[Johnny]

Right? And that's why. That's why, I mean, Kinzinger complaining about Iran that every day, Cherry Jacobus thinking that Elon Musk pays attention to her Twitter feed.

[Michael Duncan]

I think that's fair.

[Johnny]

It's just too much. And so she went wins round three, and she takes the crown.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, I. I certainly appreciate that, your honor. And I appreciate taking with Grace.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, I think he made the right decision in round three. It just never should have gotten there

[Josh Holmes]

because it was Epstein's. Yep. All right, well, I'll take the win wherever I can get it. Do you guys want just a touch of variety?

[Johnny]

Sure.

[Michael Duncan]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

So it Turns out there was a pub race and they do this kind of thing in Ireland, Scotland. You know, they pub race, they get chiffast and then they go out and they run against each other. I've not participated nor seen one firsthand. But apparently it's done with some frequency. And we have a clip of it in clip five.

[NetChoice Representative]

That's a full stop.

[Josh Holmes]

Wait, one of his legs.

[Johnny]

Oh, it's like, oh, oh,

[American Petroleum Institute Spokesperson]

I've got that.

[Josh Holmes]

Okay.

[Michael Duncan]

He ran right into the glass.

[Josh Holmes]

So for our audio only listeners, there was two gentlemen that were doing something akin to a shuttle run. One was clearly winning, the other was trying to catch up. When they met the far end where they had to turn around and come back, there was some shirt grabbing and everything. Maybe not paying all the attention that he needed to do about where he was running. He ran into what appears to be a bus station.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

That looked like it had an ample fortification. Because it did not move, the man crumpled to the ground, unfortunately, the car in front of his landing place. So he can't perfectly access whether or not he is awake.

[Michael Duncan]

You know, two things I noticed immediately in that clip. Not exactly nighttime.

[Josh Holmes]

No, no, that's a daytime, that's a day drinking endeavor.

[Michael Duncan]

Day drinking endeavor, yeah. And also no one seems to be particularly worried about him. No, no.

[Josh Holmes]

There wasn't like a run towards him to try to figure out how to put him back together. It was like, oh, that's what happens in the pub.

[Michael Duncan]

And I think that's unique to a day drinking scenario. When you see people out that are just shit faced in the middle of the day, they become such a spectacle.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

It's like whatever you do, it's your fault.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. You know, do you think that this, some of this is maybe unique to the region?

[Michael Duncan]

Well, I do, I do wonder that, you know, my surname is Duncan, which happens to be Scottish. And I'm really disappointed by this clip.

[Johnny]

Really? Yeah. You're disappointed? You're not, you're not just, you're disappointed?

[Michael Duncan]

I'm disappointed because the Scottish don't have much. They have the game of golf. It's great for world culture. But like outside of that, it's like skirts and haggis, you know, and so like you're only a little bit better than the Irish. And so the one thing you can't do is, is be as drunk as the Irish.

[Josh Holmes]

This was very Irish.

[Michael Duncan]

Because the Irish are the whipping boy of the isles.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

You know, for the reasons that I'm laying out here, you just, you can't compete for Lowest rung.

[Josh Holmes]

I feel like this was very Irish of the Scottish. Well, have this.

[Michael Duncan]

A lot of cousins among them.

[Johnny]

What a great clip.

[Josh Holmes]

Do you have any observations, Johnny, that you'd like to make about that?

[Johnny]

You know, I've. It's hard to top what Duncan just said. You know, I feel like there's some similarities to what we saw.

[Josh Holmes]

Have you ever participated in one of these?

[Johnny]

I have not. I feel like we should probably bring some of this to America. You know, I think Kamala Harris could probably compete in something like this.

[Josh Holmes]

Some kind of a pub game activity. What's more relatable?

[Johnny]

No, I mean the rate. Here's the thing. The guy's saving grace is that he wasn't very fast and he didn't hit that thing with a whole lot of velocity.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

We do not have an update on his current condition, however, so, you know, hope he's okay. Yeah, we hope. We hope and pray that he's okay. All right, we have to get to and interview, which we are about to do. That is going to be absolutely terrific with the RSLC president, Edith Jorge Tunion, where we'll learn a lot right after this. Well, as we've talked about a lot on the Ruthless Variety program, some of the most important politics happens at a local level. Clearly it's the most impactful in terms of what your communities look like. But in terms of like what politics overall looks like, you build inside out. And in that idea, there's no better place to go than talk to the president of the Republican State Leadership Committee, Edith Jorge Tunion.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Nicely done.

[Johnny]

Well done.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Thank you, thank you for having me. Excited to be here.

[Josh Holmes]

We're firm believers. We've followed the work of RSLC for years because it is always a good precursor for what politics ultimately looks like. Two years, four years, six years down the road. And so I've always just gleaned a lot of insights from what it is that you guys do on a day to day basis. Give us a little overview of what you're doing, what you're looking at, and then we'll get into some specifics.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Yeah, good deal. And again, thank you for having me excited to be here. As you mentioned, president of the committee, we're the only national committee that focuses on state level races across all 50 states. We have several caucuses. Our largest one is legislative. So think your houses, your Senate, all the chambers. But working very closely with our speakers, our Senate presidents and in minority states, our legislative leaders, lieutenant governors, secretaries of states, Ag commissioners, and also we dabble with some Judicial elections here and there.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean there's a. That's a lot. It's a full plate.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

It's full plate.

[Josh Holmes]

And a bunch of different stuff too.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Yeah, yeah. I mean the whole gambit of it, really underneath that, you know, we'll have different projects and campaigns. We have the right leaders network that focuses on electing diverse candidates, but also just kind of distinctive to their communities. We talk a lot about this. You know, it's not just checking the box. It's if you are in a suburban community where, you know, there's a big soccer mom presence or you know, the, the coaching atmosphere is big because the sports are a big thing. Thing Texas. Right. Then maybe that's who we want to run in some of these races.

[Josh Holmes]

Not necessarily someone that representatives that ultimately fit with their communities.

[Johnny]

Right?

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

That's about right.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. You're not trying to. To jam square pegs into round holes everywhere across the country.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

So obviously your job gets easier or harder depending upon what the national environment looks like. But this is where the rubber meets the road in terms of being able to tell whether politics are working, what candidates are ultimately being recruited, how you win at the localist level is, is basically a precursor for what's to come.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Absolutely. And I think, you know, we are lucky in that while the national environment does affect, you know, everyone on the ballot, really, we've kind of gotten to a point where these elections are so localized that it does take a bit of. Let's call it. I would actually. I'll rephrase it. We're built to weather a storm. And I think a lot of that has to do with how well we did in the 2020 elections. You know, if you're watching the news today, you'd think that we'd have lost seats in the last six years. We've actually net gained seats in the last six years at the legislative level. But you look at the federal stuff, you know, we've, we've won the House, we've lost the House. There's a lot of back and forth. We have, you know, four seat majority, six seat majority. But for us, we've kind of really held stacking bricks. Yeah, we, we, we've fought back and we're going to continue to do so. And I think that's why I'm cautiously optimistic going into this year. I think we have a really good plan. I think we know what we're up against. We've seen it time and time again and I think we just have to kind of stay steady and we have the better ideas, when you look at some of the national polling, we do better with the economy, we do better with crime, we do better with immigration. These are all things that people think about and they're concerned about. And so at the end of the day, our ideas are better.

[Johnny]

Well, so huge component of success at the local level is due to groups like the rslc. I mean, there's no doubt about it. But I think you would also agree that that success at the local level also has to do with very good candidates running very good races. And you know, we talked a lot about on this show before about governor's races in states like Iowa and Ohio that will have an impact on the Senate race there and an impact down ballot on some of the other federal races. But I wonder if you could just give us a handful of local races to watch or statewide, you know, constitutional races to watch that could impact the ballot across the state.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Absolutely. And I'll kind of start with in 2022. And I was, I asked if I could curse and I was told I could.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh yeah, you can say whatever.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Really shitty top of the ballot candidates.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, we noticed.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Turns out candidate quality does.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Yes, it does matter. But that being said, on average state ledge candidates still perform six points better than the top of the ticket. So again, a testament to you run your local race, you focus on what's important and that's going to pay off. Ultimately in states where, you know, the top is just going to drown you out, six points is only so much, you know, you can really overcome. That being said, this year, I feel like the top of the ballots and a lot of our really competitive states are going to be strong and they're shaping out to be really good races. Think Wisconsin, think Pennsylvania, think Michigan, think Minnesota.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh yeah.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

I mean, you know, of the four that I just mentioned, Pennsylvania is probably the one that makes me the most nervous from a top of the ballot perspective. But I actually feel really good about the maps and where we're positioned. So that kind of balances off my fear a bit. But you know, those seats being, and those races being competitive at the top, whether it be the gubernatorial, you know, the Senate race, the secretary race, LG race, I think that just helps us as we kind of like start going down the ballot and the goal is, right, like if you're going to turn out and vote for a Republican and a gubernatorial, like keep voting right. Go all the way down because you do get that drop off. But the other thing we're seeing is like people are way more open to splitting their ballots. Right. And so, like, like, selfishly, for us, we're okay with that.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Right. And so I think it was something like 33% of people said that they would be willing of independent voters said they'd be willing to kind of cross ballot and vote for a Republican or a Democrat. Were they voting for the other party? And so these are all things that we monitor and we track and we try to capitalize on because I think it's, you know, there's a big, broadly speaking, anti incumbent sentiment. And so we get that, but for us it's how do we, you know, take a step back and say, listen, like whatever's happening in D.C. and you're pissed off about, we get it, but that's not us. Right. Like, we're trying to lower your taxes, we're trying to, you know, unleash American energy in the states. We're trying to like lower your electric bills. Like, this is the stuff that we're doing. We're trying to scale back, you know, your DMV fees.

[Josh Holmes]

Like, you may be pissed off about what you're seeing on the evening news, but you also appreciate math.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Yes.

[Michael Duncan]

Right.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, at some level it's helpful. It is. I mean, it's helpful when you see the breadth of candidates that you have. There are people who by and large have a good sense of local economies, for example, and understanding where the role of small businesses and things like that play and employment and kids sports and all these other things that if you understand. You get it, you get it. And the partisan lines sort of fall away.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Exactly. And you know, for us, that helps, I think. I mean, everyone keeps asking, like, what's different this year? What can we be doing? It's like, well, a. What's old is new, right? Smoking's coming back or so right here. But the, and I'm not condoning that, obviously, you know, but. But that's kind of the reality of it is I think that our candidates kind of forgot and, and maybe to a certain respect, like, I blame tech for it. Right. Like, it's so easy to just send 10,000 text messages. Or like, it can make you lazy. It kind of does, yeah. And so a lot of folks forgot what they needed.

[Josh Holmes]

So glad you mentioned that.

[Johnny]

Me too.

[Josh Holmes]

I totally agree with that.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

It's true. Show up, man.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, show up.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

I'm from Hudson County, New Jersey. Right. And dude, I'll tell you, and this is. I'll give you a quick example. Republicans will end the fiscal year being like, I saved my constituents. $40,000. Dude, don't go spend that because what are all the Hudson County Dems doing? They're buying turkeys on Thanksgiving. They're buying backpacks for back to school. They're sending birthday car credit card you can think of, like that's what they're spending their money on. And like it's there for a reason. Right? Like that is your job. It's to show up, to make sure that your community feels representative, they know who you are and like that's all you really have to do.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Johnny]

I love what you're saying because there is always so much conversation about the national topics. I mean it just seems like it consumes every conversation. But you know that in some states, local issues really drive the day and it just goes unnoticed and unless unreported. And I wonder if there are a couple of states that come to mind for you where it's like, here's a local issue that is really going to be determinative what happens in the fall that nobody's talking about.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Yeah. And I'll give you an example, which is actually Oregon, believe it or not. They had a really messy. I believe it's a transportation tax that is eventually going to go to the ballot. So what ended up happening was the legislature voted for it. It was wildly unpopular, obviously big blue sand Republicans within like it was like 10 days or something like that, unpaid effort, completely grassroots. Got twice as many signatures to put it on the November ballot. The Supreme Court ruled that it would be on the ballot, but they changed the date to like August or something like that.

[Josh Holmes]

Which is like, let's make sure everybody's out of town for this one.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Right. But that is an issue that like people very clearly are against it. The support that you saw after the legislative legislature voted for this, like kind of, it's kind of like Virginia redistricting.

[Josh Holmes]

Right.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Like, I promise you, if that referendum would have won like 65, whatever the math is on that, like Supreme Court would have withheld it. The fact that it only won by, I think it sounds like 70, 60,000 votes, something like that. Like, you can't tell me that that's, you know, the, the state of Virginia being like, yeah, we want this. So for us that's a huge win. Right. And again, if you look at the history of that, like as soon as Democrats took over, they changed it from what it originally was, which was a legislative kind of map drawing process, to an independent map drawing process. And now all of a sudden we got to go back, right. Because the people really want this. So I think these are the small things that rightfully so people are pissed off about. Right? It's like, dude, we're telling you loud and clear what we want and what we don't want and you are not listening. And so that's where a lot of that sentiment comes from. And, you know, some of it is derived from like the DC stuff, but for our guys, it's like, and gals just like show up, let them know who you are, what you're doing. In a lot of these red states, we've done really good stuff to help people with their pocketbooks, with schooling, with energy costs. And so, like, getting that message out there is what's important right now.

[Josh Holmes]

I always found one of the most interesting parts about your job is that you meet people before everyone knows who they are. Yeah, right. And that you're meeting local leaders who have been inspired for one reason or another to get into public service. And there's always, you know, you can go to all 50 states and meet a whole bunch of people and you're like, yeah, this makes sense. This makes sense. This person represents this constituency, whatever. But there's always a couple of them. No matter where you go, you're like, that person's gonna be something because you just have an extra little piece of this. But tell me a little bit about that.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Yeah, for sure. The one example that immediately comes to mind because they just put out an ad over the weekend is Governor Cox in Utah. So former lieutenant governor was very much involved with the RSLC at the time. His big thing is like bipartisanship. Even when he ran against the Democrat, I think the Dem knew he was going to lose. So they did a lot of campaigning together. Oddly enough, he just put out a commercial over the weekend with Governor Westmore kind of talking about their differences, but where they're going to align to like work together and stuff like that. But this was someone that, you know, I've been at the RSLC for seven years now. Since then, I could tell, like, this guy is speaking the language of like his people kind of thing. Like, they love him out there. It's what they want to see. That's kind of the state of the politics in Utah. But then kind of, to use a present day example, you have Lieutenant Governor Evatt in South Carolina. She's running for governor. I, you know, fingers crossed, think she's gonna pull it off and she's just gonna be such a great representative of what, you know, what it means to be a business oriented kind of small government, you know, limit, limit the role of government in life to like make your life better kind of.

[Josh Holmes]

Governor, practical ideological fit for the constituency which is way better center, right?

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Constituency, yeah. So you're not, you're not sort of selling anything out, but what she is vocalizing at some level, I'm guessing in your estimation is basically a better fit than, than you see elsewhere.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

I think so. And, and she's like I said, someone who has been with us for years now, very involved, very engaged. But that's what it is. Right. It's like a lot of these folks when they work the room, so to speak, like, like you can a tell but they're also making the connections and kind of building themselves up to run for higher office. And like we want that, we love that, we support all of our, you know, bench, if you will, who's moving on to higher office.

[Josh Holmes]

I was going to say it's a double edged sword. Right. I mean, at one level it makes it more difficult to try to grow and expand majorities in all these various states. But on the other you're getting a lot more clout when you've seen somebody roll through your system who ultimately becomes a star.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Yep. I think there's like four state senators in Georgia running for lg. One of them is who has been involved with the organization through leadership. Jfk, John F. Kennedy. We have a fun ad right now that kind of highlights the fact that it's not that jfk, it's the Georgia jfk.

[Josh Holmes]

That JFK is a different deal in

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Georgia, but exactly to your point, like such a strong leader on the legislative side, such a strong advocate for all of the work that we do and now he's running for lg and so we lose him on one side, but on the other side, if we can pick him up, I think that would be huge for lieutenant governors. And then what's next?

[Josh Holmes]

Right.

[Johnny]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

One question I'm curious about because look, the economy of scale in politics has gotten crazy and, and we're raising billions of dollars at the presidential level in order to run national campaigns. Some of these Senate races are going to be a couple hundred million, if not more. But then we've also seen people like Spencer Pratt in LA who are doing so much more with modern tools to try to get their message out. Where do you guys. Because you got to figure out the most efficient way. Resources aren't endless for oslc. Where do you think that fits with where you're at?

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Yeah. So our big initiative that we started last year is Project Door Strike. And it's going back to the basic basics. It was a constituent style door program where like you started it in the early part of the year. And it wasn't like, hey, there's an election vote for so and so. It was like, hey, I'm with, you know, Edith's campaign or Edith's office. Has anyone ever knocked on your door? Something like 70% of the ground intel, nobody knew who their rep was. No one had ever knocked on their door. And then at the same time as this was running, we did a national poll and something like 70% of people whose doors were knocked on said that they would consider voting for someone who knocked on their door.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

So that's an ROI you gotta love.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Obviously there's a connection there.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

So we did it. It was three phase program. First one is knock on the door. Has anyone knocked on your door? What do you care about anything we can help with? Second one was like, hey, me again. Hope everything's going well. Just checking in. You know, things are starting to heat up. Obviously there's an election in November. Is there anything we can help you with? Square way, ab ev, absentee early voting. And then the final one was in the fall, just hey, so and so again with your rep's office. Wanted to make sure that you were squared away with voting. Would love to get your support come November. This kind of is the, the second piece of. A couple years ago, we started our big absentee and early voting project which was just to ensure that folks felt safe, secured, knew it was an option, how to do it correctly. Saw huge progress there, especially in states like Pennsylvania. And the numbers like show it right. This year what we saw in Virginia, in New Jersey, on average in New Jersey was 4%. In Virginia it was close to 6. It was in the districts that we targeted. That was what our kind of vote goal went up by.

[Josh Holmes]

Just a lift.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Just a lift. But when you're winning and losing these races by a couple hundred votes, that's all you need. I think years ago in 21, we looked at Virginia and it was on average you needed a 3% lift in every district in order to win. And we saw that and we were successful and we obviously flipped the house. So that's a big push on our part. It's kind of what we're focusing on. It's what we're having our folks focus on and then just building off of what we've done. So again, it's, it's absentee, it's early, it's Making sure that we're not just. The other thing that we saw after these last 25 elections was, you know, your persuadable audience and your kind of low propensity Republican audience has to be treated the same way, which is you still need to persuade them, but you have to remind them that they need to vote. And I think it goes back to people kind of feel like it doesn't make a difference, it doesn't matter. And I can see why there's that frustration, especially if you're viewing it from a federal perspective, because again, look at the numbers. In the last, what, six years, our majorities on either side have not been like 20, 30 seats. Right. So it's really hard to get shit done when like you're kind of constantly like fighting one.

[Josh Holmes]

You're right on the edge.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Yeah, yeah. In states it's kind of different, especially in a lot of these red states, like, it's a lot easier to get stuff done. And so. So the goal is keep what we have in the states that are red in the states that we can pick up some seats, we're going to go after it. And if there's a chamber flip here and there, we're certainly going to continue monitoring and see what we can do. We don't want to get greedy. We recognize to your earlier point, they're just going to dump a punch of money on us and we're limited in that because we are kind of the only group that's out there doing this at the mass scale that we do it. They have at minimum three that I can think of right off the top of my head. And each of those are probably in for at least 50. This is about $150 million to our, probably 50 this year alone. So that's the reality of what we're up against.

[Josh Holmes]

Last, last thing. And then we'll let you go. Because a lot of your candidates have had to have been involved in the federal issue of redistricting. I'm sure that that has played a role and what it is that you all are, are looking at on a day to day basis, net net, end of the day, you know, we're getting pretty far along into this process. How do you feel like that has filtered out on the legislative side?

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's turned redistricting into an every year, every other year battle. But you know, and this is my hang up on this. It's a bit. People woke up, you know, last year and tried to make it seem like this is the first we're ever seeing this, and it's like, no, bro. Democrats have been doing this since 2020. And after, like, we have gotten redistrict every year since then, whether it was Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Mississippi, Louisiana. They tried in North Carolina. Like, they're just doing it through the judicial process, which is not the way that it's supposed to be done in these states because they're legislative maps, and they're supposed to be done through the legislative process.

[Josh Holmes]

It's an outrage because they're a pushback.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Well, and here's the other thing. Excuse my language. This gets me, like, hopped up, right? It's like, who's paying for that stuff? Who's paying for all of these, you know, briefings and the courts and the lawyers and all that stuff? It's all shady, dark money. But we're. We're the bad guys, right? We're doing it completely open. We're telling you what we're doing, but we are the bad ones. And so on one. On one hand, it's like we finally woke up. We said, okay, you guys are going to be playing this game, then we're going to play it, too.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

We're being very honest and open about what our end goal is. And, you know, if this is going to turn into a yearly thing, then we have to win these legislative seats to make sure that we can control it.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, that's a pretty good message. Well, you're doing a whale of a job. Keep us updated.

[Johnny]

There's one more thing. You know, when you're thinking about election day and what might be possible, might not be possible, you'd like to have a little bit of bourbon.

[Michael Duncan]

Oh, you would?

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

That is fair.

[Johnny]

And you did bring us.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, my goodness gracious.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

And Elijah Craig, one of the perks, if you will, of the job is we have to do a lot of fundraising. And one of the ways that we've recruited some funds is we have our own barrels of Elijah Craig.

[Johnny]

Incredible. Wow. And there's real bourbon from Kentucky.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

It is real bourbon from Kentucky.

[Josh Holmes]

Boy, you know the way to our hearts. Yeah, it's fantastic.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

It is strong. So enjoy it.

[Johnny]

I see.

[Josh Holmes]

You got to watch out. Yeah. So if people want to help you out, where do they go?

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Go to rslc.gop. that's pretty much your. Your mainframe for all things state politics.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, good to you very, very much appreciate your efforts. Thanks for joining us.

[Johnny]

Thank you, Eden.

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

Thanks for having me.

[Josh Holmes]

Some Follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money. Because behind every headline is a bottom line, whether it's the funds Fuel fueling AI or crypto's trillion dollar swings. There's a money side to every story. And when you see the money side, you understand what others miss. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe [e-mail]

[Johnny]

what a great conversation. And it just goes to show you that there are an awful lot of races out there that you should be paying attention to that you might not see on the evening news every night.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, no, well said, well said. I think it's a good show. We covered some meaty topics here. Although, you know, AFC provides a comic levity no matter what. She's just so bad. I can't believe there are literally tens of millions of people who take this woman seriously, but they do, dude.

[Johnny]

She is going to be their marquee candidate in 2028. I just, I think that's going to happen.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, I mean, I think so too. You look at what happened with Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and there's an awful lot of like left wing lunatics who feel like the party got one over on them.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

And like, they're not going to let that happen again. After Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump, after Kamala Harris lost to Donald Trump. They're going to want a real true

[Johnny]

thing after the establishment put Bernie Sanders in a box cycle after cycle.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, you're going to free base socialism this time. All right, all that being said, great episode. Remember our question of the day. She's a serious candidate. Aoc. She's a serious candidate. Is this somebody we should be worried about? We'll get your thoughts and opinions about all of that and read them back to you the next episode when you like. And subscribe to the ruthless variety program with that. Fellas, I think we did it.

[Michael Duncan]

Absolute banger of an episode. Still on Smug Watch. Hopefully he'll be back soon. But that means we go to Hollywood

[Josh Holmes]

hen another banger of an episode, folks. So until next time, minions, keep the

[Edith Jorge Tunion]

faith, hold the line, and own the libs.

[Josh Holmes]

Sam.