Will Elon Musk’s “America” Party End in Disaster?

Summary

Ruthless Podcast Episode Summary: "Will Elon Musk’s 'America' Party End in Disaster?"

Release Date: July 8, 2025

Hosts:

• Josh Holmes
• Comfortably Smug (Michael Duncan)
• John Ashbrook

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1. Introduction and Setting the Stage

The episode kicks off shortly after the 4th of July celebrations, with hosts Josh Holmes, Michael Duncan, and John Ashbrook reflecting on the holiday and its significance. They express empathy for those affected by recent tragedies, particularly the devastating situation in Texas involving summer camps.

Notable Quote:

• John Ashbrook [01:55]: "Very good Tuesday to you. Welcome back to the Ruthless Variety Program."

2. Discussion on the America Party and Elon Musk’s Involvement

The primary focus of the episode revolves around Elon Musk's attempt to form a third political party, dubbed the "America Party." The hosts analyze the potential implications of this move, expressing skepticism about its viability and potential to disrupt the existing Republican and Democratic parties.

Key Points:

• Elon Musk’s Ambitions: Musk's efforts are seen as overreaching, with skepticism about his understanding of American politics.
• Impact on Republican Party: The hosts argue that the America Party could siphon votes away from Republicans, inadvertently benefiting Democrats.
• Trump’s Resilience: Emphasis on Donald Trump's unparalleled ability to rally and lead within the Republican Party, making it difficult for a third party to gain traction.

Notable Quotes:

• Josh Holmes [00:00]: "Don't come in here and be like, actually me. Go blow up the whole thing and ruin the Republican Party because I failed."
• Michael Duncan [12:24]: "The idea that the big beauty... is evidence of a uni party is ridiculous based on the facts. No Democrats voted for it."
• John Ashbrook [17:29]: "Elon Musk has spent a grand total of... about a year in American politics."

3. Reactions to The Big Beauty Bill and Political Dynamics

The hosts praise the recent passage of what they refer to as "The Big Beauty" bill, highlighting its swift enactment and bipartisan support. They commend President Trump and other Republican leaders for their effective leadership in getting the bill passed by the 4th of July.

Key Points:

• Bipartisan Effort: Acknowledgment that no Democrats supported the bill, countering claims of a "uniparty."
• Economic Indicators: Discussion on the positive state of the economy, with stock markets hitting record highs and overall national prosperity.

Notable Quote:

• Michael Duncan [12:24]: "Things that Doge found is entirely important and we should get that in the rescission package. And that's fantastic."

4. Texas Camping Tragedy and American Heroism

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the tragic events in Texas, where a beloved summer camping activity turned into chaos, resulting in profound loss of life. The hosts share personal anecdotes and emphasize the heroism of first responders and ordinary citizens who acted courageously during the crisis.

Key Points:

• Personal Impact: Hosts and listeners alike express sorrow, drawing from personal connections to highlight the universal fear and heartbreak parents feel.
• Heroism: Spotlight on individuals like Petty Officer Scott Ruskin, credited with saving 165 lives, showcasing American resilience and community spirit.

Notable Quotes:

• John Ashbrook [43:27]: "The real heroes, I think were the kids on the ground. Those guys are heroic..."
• Josh Holmes [46:55]: "It's every parent's nightmare, right? You just want your kid to be safe at camp."

5. Listener Comments: Celebrating American Moments

In a heartwarming segment, the hosts read and respond to listener-submitted stories about their most "American" moments. These anecdotes range from personal military family experiences to shared national pride and unity observed during and after crises.

Key Points:

• National Unity: Reflections on how Americans come together in times of need, reinforcing patriotic sentiments.
• Personal Stories: Examples include Amanda Warfield’s tribute to her father and IUCP101’s recounting of post-9/11 unity.

Notable Quotes:

• Amanda Warfield [39:55]: "I'm grateful when Bush jumped on that pile in New York City, when Trump refused to leave without addressing everyone and sang to fight."

6. Generational Divide: Boomers vs. Zoomers

A lively debate unfolds as the hosts discuss the perceived disconnect between Baby Boomers and younger generations (Gen Z and Millennials). Topics include economic challenges faced by younger individuals, the impact of "woke" politics, and differing attitudes towards work and personal responsibility.

Key Points:

• Economic Struggles: Younger generations face higher costs of living and challenges in building wealth compared to Boomers.
• Cultural Attitudes: Critique of newer terms like "micro retirement" and the emphasis on mental health, which the hosts argue detracts from personal responsibility.
• Respect and Responsibility: Emphasis on mutual respect and understanding across generations, urging Boomers to acknowledge their contributions while encouraging younger people to take on adult responsibilities.

Notable Quotes:

• Josh Holmes [63:48]: "Zoomers... have to stop talking about life like therapy."
• John Ashbrook [70:41]: "Have some respect for the country for what it is and know that you have a place in trying to make it better."

7. Epstein List and Conspiracy Theories

The conversation shifts to the controversial Epstein case, with the hosts expressing distrust in official narratives and advocating for more transparency. They engage in speculative discussions about the lack of a definitive client list and the potential involvement of high-profile individuals.

Key Points:

• Distrust in Authorities: Skepticism towards the FBI and DOJ’s conclusions about Epstein’s death and the absence of a client list.
• Conspiracy Theories: Hosts entertain theories about influential figures being involved, highlighting public frustration with perceived government cover-ups.
• Call for Accountability: Suggestions to empower influencers with subpoena power to investigate and uncover hidden truths.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Duncan [49:27]: "I want a group of influencers put together that are given direct access to all the files..."
• John Ashbrook [55:36]: "I think you're right. I think people need to figure it out."

8. Interview with Josh Dawsey: Insights from a Wall Street Journal Reporter

In an exclusive interview, guest Josh Dawsey discusses his new book, "2024: How Trump Retook the White House and the Democrats Lost America." Dawsey provides an in-depth analysis of the 2024 campaign, offering behind-the-scenes insights and highlighting pivotal moments that shaped the election outcome.

Key Points:

• Campaign Dynamics: Exploration of the Trump vs. Biden rivalry, emphasizing Trump's unwavering support and strategic campaign maneuvers.
• Democratic Struggles: Examination of internal conflicts within the Democratic Party, ineffective campaign strategies, and the impact of leadership decisions.
• Surprising Developments: Insights into how unexpected events, such as debates and candidate performances, influenced voter sentiments and the final electoral results.

Notable Quotes:

• John Ashbrook [74:21]: "He is one of the preeminent political reporters in all of the game."
• Josh Dawsey [75:34]: "This election... was going to be an ignominious end for him if he lost."

9. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with final reflections on the discussed topics, reiterating the hosts' skepticism about the America Party and emphasizing the importance of staying informed through reputable sources. They encourage listeners to engage with their content and participate in ongoing discussions.

Notable Quote:

• John Ashbrook [99:29]: "It's the same thing. It's the same thing."

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Episode Highlights:

• Elon Musk’s America Party: Analyzes potential disruption and challenges.
• Texas Tragedy: Honors heroes and reflects on community resilience.
• Generational Debate: Critiques of modern youth culture and economic pressures.
• Epstein Conspiracies: Calls for greater transparency and accountability.
• Exclusive Interview: Josh Dawsey’s insights into the 2024 election dynamics.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Josh Holmes [00:00]: "Don't come in here and be like, actually me. Go blow up the whole thing and ruin the Republican Party because I failed."
• John Ashbrook [01:55]: "Very good Tuesday to you. Welcome back to the Ruthless Variety Program."
• Michael Duncan [12:24]: "Things that Doge found is entirely important and we should get that in the rescission package. And that's fantastic."
• Josh Holmes [63:48]: "Zoomers... have to stop talking about life like therapy."
• John Ashbrook [55:36]: "I think you're right. I think people need to figure it out."

This detailed summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and perspectives shared by the hosts and guest, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven’t tuned into the episode.

Transcript

[Josh Holmes]

So it's not the uni Party that is against you. It's that your ambitions far exceeded what you could actually accomplish. You're embarrassed by that fact. Fine. But then don't come in here and be like, actually me. Go blow up the whole thing and ruin the Republican Party because I failed.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, it was tremendous that he was willing to help pitch in for. For Trump's victory. But it was Trump's victory. No one else in the world could have took a bullet like that, hopped up, put his fist in the air and said, fight, fight, fight. You think you're gonna try to take credit for that, dummy?

[John Ashbrook]

I don't care what you think about Donald Trump. He's the political athlete of our lifetime.

[Michael Duncan]

Yes.

[Unknown]

What do soaring auto insurance rates and inflation have in common? Greedy billboard trial lawyers and fraud. You're paying more because trial lawyers are bilking the system. They're working with unscrupulous doctors to fake injuries and file fraudulent medical claims. They're conspiring with Ms. 13 gang members to recruit illegal immigran for their bogus lawsuits. And while they're getting richer, hardworking Americans are getting crushed by higher auto insurance rates and higher inflation. Frivolous lawsuits are costing the average family over $4,000 a year in hidden taxes. It's a corrupt system. Greedy billboard trial lawyers use fraud and frivolous lawsuits to line their pockets. Then they give millions to Democratic politicians to defend the racket. Lawsuit abuse and insurance fraud are attacks on you. But President Trump can stop their scam and make America affordable again. Ending lawsuit abuse is one more way to put America first. Paid for by make America affordable again.

Ladies and gentlemen, your attention, please.

[Michael Duncan]

Keep the faith, hold the line, and own the lids.

[Unknown]

It's time for our main event.

[John Ashbrook]

Very good Tuesday to you. Welcome back to the Ruthless Variety Program. I'm Josh Holmes, along with comfortably smug Michael Duncan and John Ashbrook, Left to right, across your radio dial. As always, fellas, we're here past the 4th of July. I'm gonna get your takes on your weekends and everything. Obviously, hearts go out to people in Texas. This was one of the most devastating situations I think I've ever seen, just in terms of how quickly what can be just a beloved summer camping activity can turn into just mayhem. The profound loss of life as a result of it and the heroism of people in the region trying to rescue children.

[Unknown]

Yeah, no. And, you know, I have girls in a similar age range, and they went to camp in Pennsylvania this summer. And it is just every parent's worst nightmare. You send them off, you think, oh, they're gonna have great summer fun. And then you see something like that in the news, and your heart breaks.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah. We know a lot of you and a lot of us, honestly, tangentially know people were affected in this situation. And we obviously are thinking about all of you in the region, in Texas, as it recovers. But we're gonna put on a fun show nonetheless. We're gonna get a little bit more of that. Cause there are some really incredible stories, but there's more to talk about in the world of politics, obviously. July 4th. It's my favorite day. We covered it. Thank you for everybody who tuned into this special. I think we got a really, really good feedback on all of that. And seems like the feedback that we got indicates that people were. I felt like there was lacking some content out there. Just celebrating just how awesome America is. Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

I mean, it was a phenomenal episode. So many great things that highlighted how wonderful our country was, which needs to be done. Which has been sorely lacking. You gentlemen did an excellent job of it.

[John Ashbrook]

Appreciate it.

[Michael Duncan]

And you unveiled the facial hair, which I think you should absolutely keep. I mean, it's terrific.

[John Ashbrook]

Look. So the mustache, I mean, you kind of tallied it up. Smash. The mustache had a reaction.

[Josh Holmes]

It was divisive. But ultimately, I come down on the side of pro stache.

[John Ashbrook]

You're pro stache.

[Josh Holmes]

I am. I think every day you grow it longer, the more you look like Jack Sparrow.

[John Ashbrook]

I will say that there was a decisive split between the men who loved it.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

And the women who.

[Josh Holmes]

It's true.

[John Ashbrook]

Did not.

[Michael Duncan]

They want to undermine you because they know everyone loves it.

[John Ashbrook]

Well, you know, I'm just. I mean, we'll see how long this lasts. But you're getting it for a Tuesday episode after the 4th of July. Loved having it for the 4th.

[Josh Holmes]

Yes.

[John Ashbrook]

Big conversation starter at the 4th parties that I was at. And I. I listen. I had a wonderful Fourth of July. We were amongst friends just enjoying the way that you ought to do it. I know that. Duncan, you were out grilling some meats.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, well, I talked about it on the 4th of July episode, but I. I broke in my new green egg.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

Nice.

[Josh Holmes]

Which I. I loved. Yeah, it was awesome.

[John Ashbrook]

It looked like you had a nice piece of.

[Josh Holmes]

I. I had some ribs. I had ribs on there. And then I did some dogs and burgers for the kids and stuff. Remarkable. It's a lot of fun.

[John Ashbrook]

That's awesome.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

And, Smash, you had family in town.

[Unknown]

Yeah, we had family. We did dogs and Burgers. And then I went out and played a round of golf with my brother in law and my nephew and we had just an incredible time Saturday.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah. It's hard for me to imagine going out and playing golf at this particular.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

Lot in my life.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, because Holmes and I both have, have younger boys.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And so we're sort of in the thick of it with, you know, activities and things and all of that sort of stuff.

[John Ashbrook]

I have a question for you, Tom Patton, cane type.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. So I had a lot of responsibilities this weekend to get my, my son, my 5 year old ready for baseball camp.

[John Ashbrook]

Yes.

[Josh Holmes]

And so I took him to Dick's and like got him outfitted and all that sort of stuff and you know, got, he was very excited.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And today was the first day of baseball camp and I don't know about your boys, but like if I like showed up, he would, he would not either not focus or like be too hard on himself. So I don't want to be close to the diamond. Like, I don't want to be, you know, in the dugout or any of that sort of stuff.

[John Ashbrook]

Well, it's all the psychology you have between you and your child. You know it before they do.

[Josh Holmes]

But like, how do you show up to a park and basically spy on a five year old without people being like, who's this pedophile in the parking lot?

[John Ashbrook]

Well, no, you gotta watch out for that.

[Josh Holmes]

Like what is, how do you do that?

[Michael Duncan]

Can I weigh in? You have to stand in the front row and watch him at all times.

[John Ashbrook]

Oh, he wants the pressure.

[Michael Duncan]

You think Tiger woods dad was like, you know, maybe I'll check in on him. No, you have to stand there and keep an eye on him and better yet, have your phone out and record him every time he's up to the plate.

[John Ashbrook]

You cannot be surreptitious about showing up to your child's game because if there's a man anywhere that doesn't seem to be connected with binoculars to it to a five year old game, like it seems troubling. Now I have the opposite issue in that my wife is just like a psycho when it comes to being competitive about stuff.

[Michael Duncan]

Oh yes.

[John Ashbrook]

And so when she shows up, it's problematic. I try to try to be encouraging. Well, you know, look, as a parent, I imagine a lot of you listeners have thought through this too. As you're raising kids, particularly at the early age, you're trying to get them into competitive sports and whatnot. You think about your own psychology and the things that were like Troubling for you. And if you could go back and redo it and like, one of. At least my oldest kid, he's got a lot of things that I did. You know, confidence is everything. If you have a little bit of confidence, you're ready to go and you're ready to do it. Different kids need different things. There are other kids that need to be full jab in the ass and be like, get your. Get your butt out there and play. And then they play better. I think I got my psychology. Okay, so I'm actually the one that's.

[Michael Duncan]

Like, I mean, your boy's a slugger, the third base. Like, you got to start thinking about nil contracts at this point. He's like, designated hitter on the team at this point.

[John Ashbrook]

But he's like, if I'm not there, it's a bigger problem. Oh, but if my wife is there, Hey, I don't know.

[Josh Holmes]

See, Joey's the opposite of that. Like, hardest on himself, like, at all times, 100%, you know, so that's good mentality. So if he. If he saw me and he, you.

[John Ashbrook]

Know, struck out, it's a double weight.

[Josh Holmes]

Exactly. So I got to be a little. I got to be a little more removed.

[Michael Duncan]

You have to cultivate it. You have to.

[Josh Holmes]

It's already cultivated. He already wants to see. I love the one guy who doesn't have kids giving you.

[Michael Duncan]

But that's what always worked. That's what always worked. Like, whenever I had a thing and I saw my parents were there, it was like, well, now failure's a zero option for that to happen. Because the first thing that's gonna happen, I'm gonna hop in the car. My dad's like, well, you blew it, didn't you?

[John Ashbrook]

And that's why Comfortably Smug was a first round draft pick in every sport that he ever played.

[Michael Duncan]

That's how you become a first round pick.

[John Ashbrook]

Listen, what we're gonna talk about is several different things here, but we're gonna start with the America Party. Just because I think it's taken over an awful lot of conversation on the political front. That in our minds is somewhere either between douchebaggery or complete nonsense that we just want to flush out and give you all of that. We're going to talk Texas. We're going to give you some variety. You're going to love some variety that we've got. And, you know, we've got a great interview today with Josh Dossey, a Wall Street Journal reporter. He's written a book, been a friend of the program For a while, he's been a reluctant listener. He's one of those, you know, those mainstream media types who listens to the program and is like, hate listens to it.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, he's gotten a lot better lately, though. He's gotten a lot better.

[John Ashbrook]

The one thing he is better than anything else is sourced amongst Republican politics.

[Michael Duncan]

He's at a very respectable publication.

[John Ashbrook]

People trust him.

[Michael Duncan]

He's at the Journal.

[John Ashbrook]

People trust him. And I have found in my personal dealings to be an incredibly trustworthy individual. Which is all you've ever asked for from a giorno. You know, I mean, the biggest problems that we have with journalism today are people who don't even call sources. All they do is just write a narrative they call like a Brennan clapper. Yeah. And get like the full rundown of what we're. They're not allowed to talk about but think is implicated here. And then they write up a story and do whatever. Guys like this, they're well sourced. He's trusted. I think he's a hell of a journalist. But more importantly, in books, when they come out from people like him, there's stories there. Yep.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

Stuff you haven't seen anywhere else. And the biggest thing that we love, and I know that you guys love as the audience, is getting people to tell a story you haven't heard about Trump, about the campaign, about Kamala, about, you know, all the stuff that was happening behind the scenes. And there's been a lot that's come out. But you gotta trust a guy like Dawsey. He's gonna get to the bottom of it in a way, and he does. You gotta stick in for that interview. So we've got all of that coming for you and more. Let's start with a little bit of the Elon. I'm just going to set the table for us, and then we can get to the analysis of what we think about all of that. So if we go to graphic one, if you don't mind, Wolf. So this is an ex post where Musk threatens the third party formation. If this insane spending bill passes, the American Part America Party will be formed the next day. Our country needs an alternative to the Democrat Republican uniparty so that the people actually have a voice. Okay, so this is very consistent with what led to the breakup of the Donald Trump Elon Musk pairing in that he figured out at some point that he didn't want to be for the big beautiful bill. Big beauty, as I like to call it. The big beauty did a hell of a lot of good and it got done in record time. Hats off to the Trump administration, Huge leader Thune, Speaker Johnson and all of them for getting that done by the fourth of July.

[Michael Duncan]

That was an extra crazy icing on the cake of the fourth of. Like while you're with family celebrating, then you see Trump signing this bill and you see a B2 bomber fly over, you're like, whoa, there's America is back. And there's America is back.

[Unknown]

Right. The idea that the big beauty, as you say, which I think is a wonderful, it's a big beauty, wonderful, wonderful term for the bill. The idea that that is evidence of a uni party is ridiculous based on the facts. No Democrats voted for it.

[John Ashbrook]

Right.

[Unknown]

So there is no uni party. And the, the idea of an America party is the greatest thing the Democrats have heard.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, well, I want to, I want to hold on the analysis piece because I, I think we all have a lot to say on what all of this means. But, but just getting to the cadence of things that sets all that up. Graphic too, if you don't mind.

[Michael Duncan]

By.

[John Ashbrook]

A factor of two to one. You want a new political party and you shall have it. Never mind the fact that it's a self selecting Twitter poll on top of his own account.

[Josh Holmes]

Wait, a platform that he owns, right?

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, yeah, correct.

[Josh Holmes]

Wait, is he American or is he from South Africa?

[John Ashbrook]

Well, he's, boy, he was, you know, he has American citizenship, but he's going.

[Josh Holmes]

To, he's going to be the vanguard for the America Party.

[John Ashbrook]

That's what I'm told.

[Josh Holmes]

Got it.

[John Ashbrook]

That's what's happened.

[Josh Holmes]

I just want to be clear.

[John Ashbrook]

No, no, it's important to get facts straight right up. We're framing. We're in the framing business. If we're framing. Got to know all this.

[Josh Holmes]

Kind of a weird look.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, let's put, throw this thing back up. When it comes to bankrupting our country with waste and graft, we live in a one party system, not a democracy. Today, the American party is formed to give you back your freedom. All right, so like ordinarily when somebody says something like this, it's like a Joe Walsh level hilarity. Right? I mean, this is what Joe Walsh was kind of into. And it's funny because they're just dropping a firecracker into a. Well, essentially. I mean, it's just nonsense. But if you're to spend $300 million, as Elon Musk is reported to have done last election cycle, gotta kind of pay attention to these things and the proximity to he and the president Interesting. Well, so Trump reacts to this graphic three, if you don't mind. I'm saddened to watch Elon Musk go completely, quote, unquote, off the rails, essentially becoming a train wreck. All caps over the past five weeks. He wants to start a third political party despite the fact that they have never succeeded in the United States. That is, in fact, a fact. Can we put up the next. Graphically, the system seems not designed for them. The one thing third parties are good for is the creation of complete and total disruption and chaos. And we have enough of that with a radical left, Democrats. I'm sort of on board here. But he goes on to say, like, he explains why Elon basically is opposed to it. And he talked about this publicly with the big beauty and the elimination of electric vehicle mandates and electric vehicle tax credits and all these things that presumably have an impact. Now, Trump assigns his concern entirely with. With the big beauty on that. And he might be right. Like, I don't know. I can't get in the head of Elon Musk. All I know is, from our perspective, there's an awful lot of good things that Elon Musk has done over the last couple of years. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Not the least of which is buying X and making free speech possible in America again. And when he and Trump were working together, one of those great things he delivered was an. As an asset in winning in 2024. So hopefully they can figure out a way to come back together. Maybe they won't be able to figure it out, but hopefully this doesn't happen. Because as I was saying earlier, it's only a give to Democrats.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, they're just not, though. Right. Like, that's the thing. They're not. There's just no way. Ashbrook. I mean, this is a guy, a guy who left his administration being like, you're in the Epstein list.

[John Ashbrook]

You're a pedophile.

[Josh Holmes]

You're a pedophile.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

You should be impeached.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Like, that's what Elon Musk did on the way out the door. Now he's talking about a third party, but.

[Unknown]

Well, I've got consequences of that.

[John Ashbrook]

What I don't want to.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, sure, they're horrible.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

I agree with you on that.

[John Ashbrook]

Let's do this. I think this is the dumbest thing I've ever seen anyone do. And I want to get into it in grave detail because I know each one of us brings our own perspective to all of that. But I want to do it in a long form in a way that we can really take the COVID off the ball.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

Okay, so let's get to it right after this. America's beverage companies are investing in America.

[Josh Holmes]

We're American companies making American products with American workers in America's hometowns.

[John Ashbrook]

We're local bottlers and manufacturers operating in.

[Josh Holmes]

All 50 states, employing more than 275,000Americans.

[John Ashbrook]

In good paying jobs, delivering for the.

[Josh Holmes]

Nation because we believe in the promise of America and the people who make it great. Learn more at wedeliverforamerica.org, paid for by.

[John Ashbrook]

The American Beverage Association. Elon Musk has spent a grand total of I guess a year and a half in American politics. Hitched his wagon entirely to the President of the United States. Donald Trump appeared.

[Michael Duncan]

Has it been a year and a half? I think he hopped in after the assassination.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, after Butler.

[John Ashbrook]

Oh, I guess it's probably only been about a year.

[Michael Duncan]

Almost a year now.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, I guess you're about. It's about a year. Okay, no, good correction. Not a long time.

[Michael Duncan]

That's it.

[John Ashbrook]

Not a long time. So. But he got on board, went full freight, appeared at many rallies, showed up.

[Michael Duncan]

And.

[John Ashbrook]

Became sort of integral. First of all, I don't think the guy left Mar A Lago. Like, we were laughing for months about how at some point Trump, whether their relationship was working or not, would be like, do you have something else going on, cuz? Like, I'd like to have a Thanksgiving dinner that's not with Elon Musk. You know what I mean? It's just every single weekend there was nothing but pictures of Elon sitting next to Donald Trump. And it didn't matter what they were doing. It could be a rally, it could be a, could be a family dinner. It was like, oh, and there's Elon, bro.

[Michael Duncan]

It's starting to be like, you know how you have a friend from college who shows up and you're like, he's like, pretty fun. All right. I have like a house and a wife now, dude. Like.

[John Ashbrook]

Dude, it started to be like that and we were talking about it in that, that would be the, the formal end where he would just be like, all right, man. Like, I got a lot going on and I just don't, I don't need to be in the Elon entertainment business. But it wasn't that. It actually was much more explosive than that. We've well documented what's happened over the last few months, but I get the sense that this is a guy in Elon Musk who is not used to failure. Right? He's somebody who is Brilliant, who is capable of taking greater risks and greater reward than maybe anyone in our generation of Americans that has produced more completely previously unthought of accomplishments in terms of SpaceX and all of that stuff. And one of the great entrepreneurs maybe in the history of the world. But then he gets into politics because he's interested in it, but he thinks he knows what he doesn't.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, I think part of that is reinforced by the fact he bought what is one of the most powerful political platforms in American politics. Twitter created a system in which creators on that platform are incentivized to produce content directed at him for creator payouts. And he created a feedback loop of people telling him how great he was. And I think in that, he kind of got lost in the sauce.

[John Ashbrook]

It's a dangerous thing because if you remember three or four years ago, when we talked about the formal downfall of the American media, it was related to social media in that they had cultivated an audience where that feedback loop was entirely related to what they were printing negatively about Donald Trump. So all they were hearing all day was like, yes, you put Trump in a body bag on this story or that story or whatever story. And our thought process, if you can go back to 20, 21, 22, listen to the variety program, this was a consistent discussion that we had where the American media's acute downfall maybe always had a bias, but acute downfall was in the formation of what you're talking about, Duncan. And a feedback loop that only reinforced this perception.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, so just to put a finer point on it, I think. I think a person who talks about stuff like the uni party. Right. Or somebody who looks at the big beauty, big beautiful bill, and is like, well, we didn't balance the budget and our debt's still out of control. Which it is. Which is true. Somebody who, like, makes that their personality is somebody who's way too online.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Who doesn't understand the forest for the trees, who, like, spends all their time getting replies from people who live in Malaysia talking about American politics rather than, like, you know, people who earn a paycheck in this country.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

And like, it. It poisons your brain into thinking that, like, you're the one with the answers. It's a seductive thing on the Internet, dude. Do not. Never do it. Never do it, because that's. That's the road to ruin. And I think that's what's happening to Elon right now, unfortunately, because, like you said, he's a very smart guy. He's got a lot of great ideas. And I Don't want to doubt him on this America Party thing, but I'm telling you, it's ruinous. It's ruinous.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah. Smash, what was your.

[Unknown]

Well, on the subject of it being ruinous. It's ruinous for a reason. You can say that you don't like that our debt is out of control. You can say that Washington can't come together and cut spending because of the Uni Party or whatever it is you want to say. But the practical impact of a third party, the America Party, that tries to pull votes away from the Republicans, the practical impact of that is Democrats win in the midterm. And when Democrats win in the midterm, what do you think happens to the debt? What do you think happens to spending in Washington? Republicans and conservatives have zero recourse if Democrats are in control. And a third party like that puts Democrats squarely in control. So the two things are incongruent. I want lower debt. I want less spending, and yet I don't want Republicans to have any say over how the government is run.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, so two things on that. So I 100% agree with you that, like, everything comes off the Republican side, the ledger with this third party called the America Party or whatever. Because you look at the Democratic Party and what they. They're excited about AOC and this Communist up in. In New York. The idea that, like, this America Party would Somehow find the 80% in the middle that just wants sensible government is ludicrous. Like, the Democrats are communists. They want communism in this country. Like, a third party is just gonna draw off votes from the Republican Party. That's obviously true. Right.

[John Ashbrook]

But there's also, like, if you spend two seconds in politics, and this is the. This is the part that really. It's the art.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

That really aggrieves me. He knows a lot about things that I will never understand. He knows fucking next to nothing about American politics.

[Josh Holmes]

Okay, so that was my second part of the thing I wanted to say is, like, I think what it really comes down to isn't the EV credits and the big beautiful bill or whatever. I know he obviously is against that, and he put out tweets, being like, we're investing in energies of the past, not energies of the future. Talking about solar and wind and batteries and everything that he makes from his business and Tesla. I don't think that's his driving force in this. I said it when, you know, he had the black eye and had the whole fallout in the. In, you know, month ago or whatever. Bro Tried to balance the budget on discretionary spending and failed. Well, he told it's as simple as that. He said he was going to do it. And God bless him for trying. God bless him for trying. And I think everything that Doge found is entirely important and we should get that in the rescission package. And that's fantastic. But if you've listened to this show for years, we have laughed at people who talk that way, because that's not true. Our debt and our deficit doing it is Medicaid and Medicare and Social Security. And if you're not willing to reform those programs, you're never going to get close to bending the cost curve of this government. So the idea that you're going to go ahead and do that, come up far short, get embarrassed by the fact is how you end up now being like, well, there's uniparty that's against me. And it's like, I get it. USAID and these foreign aid programs and everything will cut wasteful spending in this government. But, like, it ain't gonna do it, pal. So it's not the UNI Party that is against you. It's that your ambitions far exceeded what you could actually accomplish. You're embarrassed by that fact, fine. But then don't come in here and be like, actually me, go blow up the whole thing and ruin the Republican Party because I failed.

[Michael Duncan]

That's the thing is, I think you're 100% right, but I find more acute the reasoning for it is beyond just that. But the reason that that irked him. And I think not being able to will a victory in Wisconsin for that judge election, I think that irked him and it got after Elon's ego. That's what really got him. And the thing is, is that for a guy who's had such tremendous success in business and clearly has such competency in scaling businesses, probably better than any other living human, if you look at the results of this. He needs to go back to what works. And here's the thing is, you know, yeah, it was tremendous that he was willing to help pitch in for Trump's victory, but it was Trump's victory. No one else in the world could have took a bullet like that, hopped up, put his fist in the air and said, fight, fight, fight. You think you're gonna try to take credit for that, don't you?

[John Ashbrook]

I don't care what you think about Donald Trump. He's the political athlete of our lifetime.

[Michael Duncan]

Yes.

[John Ashbrook]

And I think you're saying kind of along the lines of what I'm saying, which Is it goes back to the piece of advice that I got when I first became a Senate Chief of staff from one of my predecessors who said, just remember, you know, when everybody's returning your call and everybody wants to see you, meet you and be nice to you and everything, it has nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with the guys whose name on the door that you walk through every day. And at some point, for a guy like Elon, who can have anything he wants but was spent, you know, he spent nine months on center stage with cheering thousands and getting huge applause lines, I think at some point he thought it was for him.

[Michael Duncan]

Yep, I think you're right, dude.

[John Ashbrook]

I think he thought it was for.

[Michael Duncan]

Him, like for that thing. He got lost in sauce. And here's the thing is like we've seen stocks hitting all time highs. You know, this economy, this country, the world is thrilled with President Trump's results. How America is just like, could not be in a better position. Stocks are hitting all time highs. Tesla's down 25% so far this year. Two weeks ago, Elon was like, listen, I'm gonna stop focusing on politics. I'm gonna focus more on business. That's of course what I'm the best at. And you know, I want shareholders to know this is what I'm focuses on. Then focus on it, dude, focus on it. Because I'll tell you right now, this America Party is not going anywhere. It's, I mean like so many people have tried to do this third party thing and it's always led to one thing which is just like coming at the cost of helping Democrats.

[Josh Holmes]

Ask Ross Perot.

[Michael Duncan]

Ask Ross Perot.

[Josh Holmes]

I mean, Donald Trump knows. He ran on the Reform party in 2000. He knows.

[John Ashbrook]

He knows. I mean, there was a reason why when he first ran for president and everybody was pushing Donald Trump to say, would you consider a third party? He was like, I'm not touching that, wouldn't talk about it. But there are like two irrefutable facts when it comes to third parties in America. If you're trying to get anywhere close to sensible, anywhere close to limited government or anything, like in a rational, logical decision making, you're just pulling off the Republican Party. Cuz the Democratic Party doesn't touch that shit. There's nobody off the left hand side of the map that is anywhere interested in any of it. And if you look at all the close call elections that Republicans have had over the last 10 years where a Republican has lost by 5,000 votes or less, you can track it directly to some nuisance candidate that's a libertarian that is like, you know, Georgia, we had it happen twice in 2020. It's happened in Montana for years before we finally took that state over. There are many, many states where they file these nuisance candidacies now. You know, famously, Jill Stein did it to Hillary Clinton in the state of Wisconsin in 2016. Ralph Nader did it to Al Gore in 2000. But it only applies if you're talking about the America Party and what you say you stand for, it only applies to the Republican Party because like Jill Stein and Ralph Nader, what they're talking about is clinical insanity. Like the kind of stuff that if you had an aunt or uncle talking about, you would be like, hey, have they taken their medication? Can we get them some help?

[Josh Holmes]

They're not talking about balanced budget, they're.

[John Ashbrook]

Not talking about balance budget.

[Michael Duncan]

And that's the thing is like whenever I see someone talk about like uniparti, it's like, yeah, you know, Donald Trump, Kamala Harris, no difference. Good point, dude. Genius move.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, totally. I mean, and that's the thing that drives me crazy. The second truth is that if your goal is to pick up the center of the electorate, which is a thing, right? I mean, there's frustration amongst the American people about how you have a conservative right in a conservative left or in a liberal left and it seems like the center, like sensible, just do the shit.

[Unknown]

The roads, you would think there's opportunity.

[John Ashbrook]

You would think there's opportunity in that. It's been less so with the Donald Trump because he's less ideological, frankly, than most Republican nominees that we've had. But if that's your goal, let me just tell you, if you spent a fucking day in politics, you know, the center right and center left, classic swing voters, your soccer, I don't care how the fuck you want to brand it. These are Tone people. These are Tone people. They care an awful lot about the way you present an argument and your execution on that is very, very important. Elon Musk is probably the worst tone political figure that I've ever seen. He's a blunt force hammer and he offends a lot of people, cuz he's a blunt force hammer. So it's incongruent to say that there is this big center of the electorate that you're going to make a play for and then the party's founder is someone who just consistently offends that group more than any other political figure, including Donald J. Trump, than anyone in the world.

[Michael Duncan]

And I mean, like, the polling bear that out in Wisconsin when he. Like, people can't name the candidate who is running for judge in Wisconsin, but they can name Elon. They're like, well, Elon's guy's the one who's running because, like, Elon's pouring money into Wisconsin. How'd that work out? Like, all the polling beared out that, you know, the voters had a negative opinion of Elon Musk when he tried to make himself the center of that race. I mean, it's a lot more difficult than when you have Donald J. Trump's name on the ballot, isn't it?

[John Ashbrook]

100. And if you think for a second the America Party, well, it'd be nice to restore common sense again, Right? You've got, like, a reversion to that kind of discussion. Consider that piece of it. What about the common sense? I mean, everything that has made Donald J. Trump's first six months in office more controversial than it should be was entirely related to Elon Musk. And I'm not saying it wasn't good or worth doing the Doge thing. I continue to be a huge supporter of the Doge thing. I think that's the best thing that I've seen in a long time. But we all laughed at the beginning of it, suggesting to the American people with a straight face that you can balance their budget based on foreign aid. It's like.02% of the fricking budget. It's a teardrop in the goddamn ocean. And if you do simple math and you listen to people who actually know what the fuck they're talking about, you can discern that very quickly. The problem is, is that if you live in this online universe that are purveyors of falsehoods, because they want clicks, they want follows, they want likes, they want to monetize all of that stuff, you don't actually know what's going on. You ought to check out and see what's going on. Look what happened to Donald Trump.

[Unknown]

Yep.

[John Ashbrook]

You put Donald Trump in charge. He's the greatest online marketing machine in the history of American politics. You put him in the Oval Office. Look at the decisions that he's making.

[Michael Duncan]

And that's the thing is another reason I think this whole America thing isn't gonna work is because, like, you think that there's some, like, hidden, sensible, you know, group of voters right in the middle of this country who are just looking, who are politically homeless. No, dude, Trump won them all. That's why he got the popular vote on top of the electoral vote.

[Josh Holmes]

Literally every swing state.

[Michael Duncan]

Like not doing surgery on children. Yeah, those voters are voting for like the sensible people in this country. Criminals who enter illegally, send them back. Yeah, those people are voting for Trump. Like he's captured the center of this country.

[Unknown]

You talk about whether or not it's going to work and I just wonder what is the ultimate objective? Is the objective to actually build a third party that is an alternative party for Republicans or Democrats across the country, or is it a sour grapes movement to pull votes out of Trump's pocket and make sure that he's in the minority in Congress after the midterm so that he can be impeached or investigated or something?

[Michael Duncan]

Wow.

[Josh Holmes]

It feels like Lincoln Project 2.0.

[John Ashbrook]

It's the same. Yeah, it's the same. You know, it's like that meme, Same, same thing.

[Michael Duncan]

HR wants to look at. The same.

[Josh Holmes]

Same.

[John Ashbrook]

It's the same. It's the same thing. I don't care what the motivation is. What you cut to in that take is the result of it.

[Michael Duncan]

Damn. Yeah. Cuz if Democrats have the House, that's all they're gonna do.

[John Ashbrook]

That's it.

[Michael Duncan]

Forget passing bills like, you know, we got done with the big beautiful bill. It's gonna be just endless investigations and.

[John Ashbrook]

Like here's the thing, I mean, look, I don't wanna sour grapes it on our end. We reached out, I think probably to Elon's people four or five times over the last six months to have a conversation about all this because of what you all have listened to for the last several years, from the ruthless variety program about the math. You can shut down our government until 2036 and still have 4% growth somehow magically, and you still wouldn't balance the budget. So what are you doing promising people that you're going to do that with cutting trans studies in Tanzania? There's a structural problem here and until you're interested in dealing with that, you can't balance the budgets. Don't promise people that you can. And we reached out over and over and over again to try to get to have that conversation. They didn't want to have it, he didn't want to have it. Now I don't know why he didn't want to have it, because honestly, we're pretty congenial people and more likely than anyone else to be thoughtful about it because we honestly appreciate Elon and what he's done. Purchase effects, more patriotic maneuvers from a billionaire that I've seen in a long time. That's right, this side of Sheldon Adelson. Anyway, that can actually be a part of a movement for good. And he did all that. But we wanted to hear him out. They didn't want to have the conversation. So, you know, now we're forced to have this conversation out of what he's brought up, which is bullshit.

[Michael Duncan]

And also tactically. Yeah. Good luck going against Trump.

[John Ashbrook]

Good luck. Good luck.

[Michael Duncan]

How's that work for anybody?

[John Ashbrook]

It hasn't been great.

[Michael Duncan]

I think his opponents are batting zero.

[John Ashbrook]

Occasionally you get on stage, you look around, you think the crowd's cheering for you. You don't realize you're the warm up act.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah. You know?

[John Ashbrook]

Yep. It's important to know that that's what's. Doesn't matter how much money you have. You can't capture the people's heart the way that Donald Trump has. And I think that is ultimately what's surfacing here in many ways. So that brings us to our question of the day. What will happen to the American party? The America Party could succeed. It could be formed. It could be doing all these things. You heard our. Take your responses, if you like and subscribe to the Ruthless Friday program on YouTube. We read all of your answers and when you come up with some interesting stuff, we read it the next day. I can't wait.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, these are gonna be good.

[John Ashbrook]

Can't wait to hear it. I realize there's a lot of, like, residual appreciation for Elon out there. I get it.

[Unknown]

For good reason. Yeah, I get it. He gave people voice.

[John Ashbrook]

But what we just gave you were the facts.

[Michael Duncan]

Yep.

[John Ashbrook]

So, you know, you tell us. And when we come back, we're going to get to your comments from last episode. It was our fourth of July episode where we asked you to supplement our picks for the Most American moment. We loved what you guys had. You liked and subscribed. You gave us a lot of good stuff. We're going to get to it right after this.

[Unknown]

What do soaring auto insurance rates and inflation have in common? Greedy billboard trial lawyers and fraud. You're paying more because trial lawyers are bilking the system. They're working with unscrupulous doctors to fake injuries and file fraudulent medical claims. They're conspiring with Ms. 13 gang members to recruit illegal immigrants for their bogus lawsuits. And while they're getting richer, hardworking Americans are getting crushed by higher auto insurance rates and higher inflation. Frivolous lawsuits are costing the average family over $4,000 a year in hidden taxes. It's a corrupt system. Greedy billboard trial lawyers use fraud and frivolous lawsuits to line their pockets. Then they give millions to Democratic politicians to defend the racket. Lawsuit abuse and insurance fraud are attacks on you. But President Trump can stop their scam and make America affordable again. Ending lawsuit abuse is one more way to put America first. Paid for by make America affordable again.

[John Ashbrook]

Okay, so last episode, our special fourth of July, which is like, it was so nice. I think we should just start doing three.

[Michael Duncan]

We did it on the lead up to the election, don't you think? Felt good.

[Josh Holmes]

Felt good.

[John Ashbrook]

It did feel good. But also this one was so rewarding. We asked you the question of how do you add to the 10 things that we lined up about the most American pro America moments of recent years and put it together and you guys came up with absolutely incredible stuff to do that. We always start with a voice. What do we got?

[Unknown]

First one comes from Amanda Warfield. And Amanda writes, I watched your fourth of July episode and I am in tears. Grateful tears. My dad now passed, served in the Army Air Corps during World War II in Saipan, in the Pacific theater. I am 51 years old now and Reagan was my era's memory. I'm so grateful when Bush jumped on that pile in New York City, when Trump refused to leave without addressing everyone and sang to fight. They're all moments of greatness. Thank you to all of you.

[Michael Duncan]

That's wonderful.

[John Ashbrook]

Amanda just gets it and gets us. I mean, that's what she said is a perfect encapsulation of what we were trying to provide on Friday. That's awesome. Comment too, Haruncks.

[Josh Holmes]

This is from IUCP101. My greatest moment was seeing our country come together. After 9 11, nobody cared who you voted for, what church you attended, which team you cheered for, or what color you were. We were all Americans. This fourth of July, I'm seeing more flags in my neighborhood than I have since 9 11. The love for our country now is heartwarming.

[John Ashbrook]

Love it. It's beyond politics. It's the country. You can feel it. That's one of the reasons why 4th of July is our favorite holiday.

[Michael Duncan]

I mean, I think that was dead on. This fourth felt different. Like I saw way more flags. People were in a really good mood. I mean, there's a lot of hope in this country right now.

[Josh Holmes]

I think it also is related to like the, like the death of woke politics.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

Like since Trump got reelected.

[John Ashbrook]

Yep.

[Josh Holmes]

It's like everybody stopped playing that game.

[Michael Duncan]

Yep.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah. Cause there was a segment of the electorate. Now, granted, I can't relate to that segment, but there was a segment of the electorate. That was like, well, if I put a flag out, my neighbors are going to judge me.

[Josh Holmes]

They're gonna think I'm a racist.

[John Ashbrook]

They're gonna think I'm a racist or something. Which is. I mean, look, I got no patience for that. But I do think that the elimination, to your point, of the whole woke politics eliminates that somebody can be proud of their country again and have to work on them a little bit.

[Michael Duncan]

That's why I put that Trump sign in front of my yard. Because if you have a problem with it, that's your mental problem. You gotta go. You gotta get help for it. It's not on me.

[John Ashbrook]

All right? Comment three, Smuggles.

[Michael Duncan]

Comment three comes from James Castleberry. And James writes. A key Murica moment for me was just after the Gulf War. I had spent the Gulf War deployed with the 24th Infantry Division Band out of Fort Stewart, Georgia. And one of our biggest fans was General Norman Schwarzkopf. He asked us, Stormin Norman, that dude got the job done. He asked us to travel down to his retirement ceremony to play. And when we played God Bless the usa, he stood in front of saluting, tears rolling down his face. It was an amazing moment to be part of and made me extremely proud of our country and what we had accomplished. What a great memory.

[John Ashbrook]

That's what I'm talking about, James.

[Josh Holmes]

That's awesome.

[John Ashbrook]

When we asked you, what are we missing? That's it. That was. What a beautiful thing.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, it's great.

[Michael Duncan]

And we were talking about this right before we started recording, but, like, for so long almost, it feels like 15, 20 years, the Democrat party has cloaked itself in this. Like, our main belief is going to be that America is a bad country. Right. How's that worked out for him? People are done with that.

[John Ashbrook]

They're done with it. God, it's about time. And that's why we don't want this situation with the third party, too. It's like, dude, let's get off.

[Michael Duncan]

We just got over it. Like I said, we're done with the woke bullshit. Bullshit. Being like, america's a bad country. We're done with it.

[John Ashbrook]

Take a W. Yeah, go fight. Friends and neighbors.

[Unknown]

Okay?

[John Ashbrook]

So we're going to transition from that right into our lightning round. We got a lot of important stuff here. This one, we not only are obligated to talk about it, this has been a tough thing for any parents of young children to watch. What's happened in Texas with these camps and just the loss of humanity and trying to put yourself in the position that some of these families are in. It's difficult. It's difficult to process. But out of every tragedy in America, there are American heroes because of what it is that we sort of engender to do. You know, I mean, we are people who just try to take care of our friends and neighbors. We have heroes amongst us. Clip one, please. When I got on scene, there was, you know, 200 kids looking to someone for some sort of comfort and safety. They don't really know what my experience is or my rank or my age. They just know, hey, this guy's a professional and he was here to help us. And I kind of had to live up to that standard. But, yeah, the real heroes, I think were too, the kids on the ground. Like, those guys are heroic and they were dealing with some of the worst times of their lives and they were staying strong, and that helped inspire me to kind of get in there and help them out. So that was Petty Officer Scott Ruskin, who's credited with saving 165 lives.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[John Ashbrook]

Wow.

[Unknown]

That's a hero.

[John Ashbrook]

Oh, I gotta tell you, there's a lot of reasons to be put on earth. Well, you did it.

[Michael Duncan]

I mean, someone brought up online that there has been a member of the Coast Guard who received the Medal of honor, I think. 165 lives. Yeah, that should get you shortlisted. 165 lives.

[John Ashbrook]

Hear just how, like, humble, totally humble.

[Michael Duncan]

Guy, and he apparently left finance to do this.

[John Ashbrook]

Wow. Yeah, it's just, it's. It's impressive again, what we're seeing down there. Totally heartbreaking. Anything you can do, you know, check out with reputable local organizations to make sure that you get stuff going in the right direction and, you know, ignore all the nonsense that you get off the left about, like, whose fault things are and climate change, for God's sakes. Or, like weather service personnel or that.

[Michael Duncan]

Doctor lady who got fired because she was like, looks like in Texas the MAGA people got what they voted for. It's like, you say something like that when there's people who are out there wondering where the kids are. You're a scumbag.

[Josh Holmes]

You know, my wife's family's all from Texas, and her in particular from Central Texas, the Austin area and stuff. And so she spent this weekend going through, you know, the surnames of all these victims, trying to figure out the people that she knew. And, like, think about that. I mean, you know, stuff like this happens and it feels like it's a world away, but it impacts all of us in some way.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, I mean, we know people, Hollywood hand knows somebody who lost a young daughter. I mean, it's just, it's a heartbreaking thing. It just reminds you how you gotta keep it tight, you know, Enjoy things like 4th of July and honestly reward your heroes. This guy, Scott Ruskin and there are hundreds of others who are involved in saving people's lives down there. The loss of life is unbelievable and is sort of unimaginable in a lot of ways. But the people who actually were out there, given their life to try to save these kids, it's just incredible.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, it's like what Ashbrook said. It's like, you know, his girls went to Pennsylvania for summer camp. And this is every parent's nightmare, right? Is like, you know, you just want your kid to be safe at camp.

[John Ashbrook]

Totally.

[Josh Holmes]

And then you see video of these cabins that are floating on water in the middle of the woods. It's just absolutely a nightmare.

[John Ashbrook]

And it's not some fly by night operation. I mean do, if you actually are concerned about it, you want to, you want to look like, do the research on what these camps are. They've been around 100 years. These are incredibly values based operations. These are not some fly by night, you know, lacking of preparation. This is a unique situation that was really tragic in a lot of ways. And unfortunately in the world of social media and the left wing media you get a whole bunch of reasons and rash partisan reasons and rationale for tragedy, which is disgusting. It's one thing that I don't think that the left is going to get out from underneath anytime soon. It seems to be like their initial reaction to any human tragedy is to try to figure out a way to blame Trump or blame some ideological reason that they don't agree with. Sick. Sick. Have fun nuancing that America party. All right, so this other thing we wanted to cover, the Epstein list. I find this hilarious. I'm actually curious, genuinely curious. This here Smugs thing on this. So you know all the conversation that's been online about the Epstein list and like all the things that we're getting to with whether he killed himself and where's the definitive list of his clients that he blackmailed and all this other stuff and you have the Ghislaine Maxwell trial. Everybody's convinced that there's like a secret cabal of humans that are out there that were all in the Epstein thing that were like pedophiles and were working on stuff. And very clearly there was a secret cabal of people who are committing atrocious acts and ghislaine Maxwell. Maxwell was convicted, and Epstein was on his way to being convicted before he hung himself. But the FBI and the DOJ concluded that there was no client list and that he died by suicide. What's your take here, pal?

[Michael Duncan]

I don't buy it. I don't buy it, man. Hillary just keeps getting. She can't keep getting away with it. She cannot keep getting away with it. I want there to be, like, a crew of influencers, right, who get deputized and are given access to the CIA, the FBI, the nsa, right?

[Unknown]

I know an influencer who would fit for that.

[Michael Duncan]

I mean, so I don't want to see that. I don't want to see that stuff because it's like. I mean, there's beyond House stuff in your worst nightmares you can't imagine were like, a daily occurrence in this cabal's world. So I wouldn't want to see it. I'd never be normal again in front of my brain. But for a lot of influencers, they could probably handle that stuff, you know? You, like, hand them more binders. Like Epstein influencers who were there that day and got the binders. Like, let them be part of this. They might be more interested in seeing that kind of stuff. But I want a group of influencers put together that are given direct access to all the files and all the information and are also allowed to subpoena Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton and influencers with subpoena power.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

That's fucking awesome.

[Michael Duncan]

Yep, yep. Allow them to subpoena Bill Gates. Allow them to subpoena Bill Clinton. Every Bill that they need subpoenaed, get subpoenaed. You know, I think that would help get there, because here's the thing is, like, okay, so we heard there were, like, hundreds of victims that were trafficked. And you're like, oh, there's no client list. So what, it's just, like, Abstein and GHISLAINE and, like, 100 children that they're. Well, they're destroying.

[Josh Holmes]

So I.

[John Ashbrook]

Two things can be true, right?

[Josh Holmes]

Two things can be true. Nope.

[Michael Duncan]

There's only one truth. Either right or it's wrong.

[Josh Holmes]

I think what the FBI was saying was that there wasn't some sort of, like, compromise situation going on with Epstein.

[John Ashbrook]

He wasn't blackmailing, as far as they could tell.

[Michael Duncan]

Bro, there's a painting of Bill Clinton in a dress, right? And then Bill Clinton's hanging out with this guy. Come on, man.

[Josh Holmes]

Here's the thing.

[John Ashbrook]

I.

[Josh Holmes]

Here's the thing. I don't understand because, like, I. Like, I Believe that Cash Patel and the FBI and these folks are, like, run into ground and tried to figure out that component of the thing. Like, was there some sort of influence scheme based on this compromise thing and this extortion rank and all that? And I'm willing to believe that, like, they couldn't find any of that. But, like, seriously, no one else is getting prosecuted.

[Michael Duncan]

That's the thing, you know, like, like.

[Josh Holmes]

Like, like, not Prince and Andrew. Like, you're telling me all these people just showed up on this island? They're like, yeah, I'm just, you know, we're just hanging out with some girls who just really love us, you know?

[Michael Duncan]

And that's the thing is I think.

[Josh Holmes]

They think I'm super attractive. You know, like, you kidding me?

[Michael Duncan]

The, like, week before Trump is inaugurated, I bet the shredders were running on overtime. Like, the FBI and everything. They were getting rid of all this stuff. Like, Bill and Hillary were probably up there with, like, you know, parody. Shovels.

[Josh Holmes]

Parody.

[Michael Duncan]

We're laughing.

[John Ashbrook]

Like, we're joking.

[Michael Duncan]

We're laughing.

[John Ashbrook]

These are all funny.

[Michael Duncan]

I think Hillary's a demon, right? And she was in there getting rid of all of it. I think. I think Obama was probably in there, probably getting rid of some stuff, you.

[John Ashbrook]

Know, like, again, parody. Parody. Relax.

[Michael Duncan]

There's a lot of theories about stuff that he's involved in.

[Josh Holmes]

Satire.

[John Ashbrook]

Jesus. You just.

[Michael Duncan]

So that's my answer.

[John Ashbrook]

Just put a quarter in your back and here we go. I actually.

[Michael Duncan]

I want the truth. I want the truth.

[Unknown]

Smug. Wasn't there someone under the name of John Doe who asked a judge in an official filing to conceal their name from recognition during the process?

[Michael Duncan]

I don't know. Was there.

[Unknown]

I think there was.

[Michael Duncan]

Is this that guy who was in the. Who says he was in that limo with Obama? John.

[John Ashbrook]

John Dell would be. Is Larry Sink.

[Unknown]

We'll never know. We will never know.

[Michael Duncan]

Let the influencers have subpoena power. We'll get this.

[John Ashbrook]

I mean, this is. That's the wildest thing.

[Michael Duncan]

Because that's the thing is, like, so far, you know, Cash and everyone are looking at documents. What they need to be looking at is Hillary in a jail cell right now. Start asking her questions.

[John Ashbrook]

Parody. Barry, we're laughing. We're laughing. That is, dude, one of the hottest takes that Smug has ever had.

[Michael Duncan]

That's my take.

[John Ashbrook]

You gotta give influencers subpoena power. Subpoena power.

[Michael Duncan]

Deputize them.

[Josh Holmes]

But didn't we, like, try that already when they all had the. They all had the booklets coming out.

[Michael Duncan]

Of the White House like, don't just give them binders. Give them badges.

[John Ashbrook]

All I'm saying is that if Cash Patel tells me something, I believe it. Yeah, that's. That's. Yeah, that's true. And I. And I also fall back on the same crew that's all up in arms about this, telling me there's no question that America killed Kennedy. CIA killed Kennedy, and they killed rfk, and they did all this stuff, and we're, like, running all these, like, different transactions, and then they're like, okay, well, what's the solution? That will release all the files. It released every single page of the files. Crickets, right? Haven't heard a word. How many times in the last six months have you heard of anybody being like, yes, CIA killed Kennedy.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Michael Duncan]

I've heard a lot of murmurs about that.

[John Ashbrook]

I mean, you were hilarious with Pompeo with that. I'll give you that. Yeah, but I mean, it goes to the same point, right?

[Josh Holmes]

Is it like, yeah, when the dog catches the mail truck, then suddenly they don't know what to do?

[John Ashbrook]

When you don't know shit from shinola other than how to formulate an argument that inflames the masses. When you get the argument back to you on your doorstep and it's nothing but a bunch of pages about, like, interviews that they'd done with everybody over the world, and they're like, I guess there isn't any conspiracy. Nobody comes back to you to say, hey, maybe we were wrong about that.

[Unknown]

Right? There is a place for conspiracy theories. And what we found over the last several years is many of the conspiracy theories we've talked about have turned out to be true. But there's also a reason why the vast majority of normies who go to work in Washington walk away with the conclusion that the government is more likely disorganized than building a grand conspiracy to.

[Josh Holmes]

Cover something, I'm with that 100%. I will stick by my guns here. I think it's crazy that only two people went to jail for this.

[John Ashbrook]

Oh, no, I think you're right. I think that is absolutely right. It's hard to believe that there was some just, like, woman who is, like, a pseudo girlfriend who somehow trafficked 100 people, where there was people going on planes down to a private island, and that there was nobody else who committed any crimes here. That seems unlikely to me. Whether you can prove said crimes or not, I think, is what the business of the FBI is.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. And, like, look, I have absolute faith in Kash Patel, like, running everything to ground. I mean, like, this guy made his career during the Russiagate stuff when the left and the deep state and you know, Adam Schiff and all these people were making all these wild accusations about Donald Trump. He made his bones by actually, like looking at the evidence and tracing all the sourcing and figured it all out himself. He actually, like went and he did the thing that nobody was going to do. He was like the Michael, Michael Burry of Russiagate.

[John Ashbrook]

Right.

[Josh Holmes]

Like, actually looked and saw what the evidence was. And so like, that guy's running the FBI. I feel pretty confident that if he could put more people in jail, he would do it.

[John Ashbrook]

I totally agree. Another quick story here. Protests against surging mass. What they call mass tourism.

[Josh Holmes]

Yes. I love this story.

[John Ashbrook]

Mass tourism in Mexico City end in vandalism, harassment of tourists. Maybe we can just play the clip first in clip two. All right, so this is for our audio only audience. What you're watching here is full on destruction of property. It looks a little bit like la what's happening?

[Michael Duncan]

This dude is spray painting Kill a gringo. So they're like basically saying, like, they don't want gringos in Mexico and they should go back.

[John Ashbrook]

That's racist. Right?

[Josh Holmes]

It's funny though, because it's like if there was a right wing version of SNL depicting like the upside down world, that this would be a skit on that show, right? Where like these Mexicans in Mexico City are like, kill a gringo. And they're like breaking down these businesses because they're gentrifying Mexico City.

[John Ashbrook]

Huh.

[Josh Holmes]

Weird.

[Michael Duncan]

I was, I was reading a lot of articles about this and they were saying that like a center, like point of this, like, essentially it's now just a mob. They were like, there are all these tourists overstaying their visas.

[Josh Holmes]

Americans.

[Michael Duncan]

All these Americans overseeing their visas in Mexico and they need to go back.

[Josh Holmes]

They need to go back and they're like, you have to learn Spanish. You have to integrate with our society, dude, it's hilarious. Meanwhile, you got people in la, like, waving Mexican flags, you know, being like, we live here, this is our country too.

[John Ashbrook]

What?

[Unknown]

Let me ask you guys, what qualifies as a gringo? If smug, for example, were to move to Mexico City and buy property and then rent it out to people at a fair rate, would they call smug a gringo?

[John Ashbrook]

It's a good question.

[Josh Holmes]

No, I don't think so.

[Michael Duncan]

If it was profitable. If it was profitable, I'd go buy Senor Smuggler. Avoid the protesters.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah. May grow out a mustache.

[John Ashbrook]

Oh, yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

There's a dollar to be Made, dude, there's a peso to be made.

[John Ashbrook]

There's a peso to be made. But you're right. I don't think they go gringo on you.

[Unknown]

They might not.

[Michael Duncan]

It'd be like that mom Donnie guy who's trying to say that, like, well, when he was applying to colleges, you got heard about this, right?

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

He was telling him he's African American.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

He's like, well, that's how I identified. Because it's not a white guy.

[Josh Holmes]

Because he was born in Uganda. It'd be like Elon Musk being like, I'm African American. I'm from South Africa. What do you mean?

[John Ashbrook]

It's so good.

[Michael Duncan]

I love that.

[John Ashbrook]

Kill the gringo. And everybody's like, oh, man. You know these aggrieved Mexicans and then they come here and they're waving Mexican flags and they're like, no, kill whitey. It's like, same, same. It's all good. Like, they have a point. They have a point. Okay, so listen, the other thing that we had to point out, I don't know if you guys saw this Hakeem Jeffries situation. All right, so this is in clips in Graphic six. What you're going to see is Hakeem Jeffries Photoshopping his image to make himself appear slimmer.

[Michael Duncan]

My God.

[John Ashbrook]

So this has been all over conservative Twitter over the last day.

[Michael Duncan]

Oh, you can see the shadows bent.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, it's the bench behind him is. Is bending towards him. And what that would indicate is he's using, like, Facetune or one of these third party apps that integrates with Instagram. So you post the photo and you're like, oh, my hips look a little fat. Wait a minute.

[Unknown]

Are you kidding me?

[Michael Duncan]

No, dude, look at that.

[Unknown]

He did it to make his hips look small.

[Josh Holmes]

My thighs look a little thick. So he's going ahead and he's just pinching it in there.

[Michael Duncan]

Get out of here.

[John Ashbrook]

No, that's what's happening.

[Josh Holmes]

And what you're seeing is the warping of the bench behind him reveals that he did that. I mean, at least. Look, I have no confirmation of this. I'm sure his office hasn't put out a statement about how he's worried about having too thick of thighs. But the evidence in front of me would suggest that he's using Facetune or some other stuff.

[Michael Duncan]

It's literally like Orwell, where it's like, all the communist pigs at the top just get fatter and fatter.

[Josh Holmes]

Just embrace your thick thighs, Hakeem.

[John Ashbrook]

I mean, first of all putting up a pic like that on Instagram. He's just leaning against the park bench trying to look hard.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

Weird.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, weird in a.

[John Ashbrook]

By himself.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

What even is the point? I will tell you guys. Courtney Holland, good friend of the program from Nevada, said that you should do yourself a favor and look at the comments underneath his Instagram post where he posted that and you will have a million laughs.

[John Ashbrook]

Okay. All right.

[Unknown]

Everybody's dunking on him.

[John Ashbrook]

Well, it's just, it's hilarious to me that somebody would put it. I mean, it goes to show the thing that we've talked about an awful lot where it's like members of Congress, particularly on the Democratic side, have decided that when you're elected and you have any prominence at all, it's like a, it's like a fame deal.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

Rather than there to do a job.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, just wait. That's for your, your Vogue cover shoot.

[Unknown]

That's right. He's in People magazine.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, he's trying, he's trying to like replicate the, the star. People magazine, Vanity Fair, whatever. Like, he's posing against the like, pathetic first. What's he doing? Dude, that.

[Unknown]

It's insanity.

[John Ashbrook]

All right. Another story, this comes from Fast Company. Zoomers discover vacation. They brand it micro retirement.

[Josh Holmes]

You have to read from this article because the way that they frame it up is hilarious.

[John Ashbrook]

Okay, so the excerpt is the thought of one day retiring and no longer having to punch a clock answering required emails. Work long hours and their other responsibilities of employment is a dream that can get you through the hard moments of work. While retirement typically occurs after completing a career and saving and investing for it, A new trend is emerging among Gen Z career professionals called micro retirement. Micro retirements involve taking a one to two week break from every work of 12 to 18 months. Gen Z is using micro retirement to avoid burnout, find greater fulfillment in their work, enhance their overall well being. Okay, I, I love it.

[Unknown]

I do have a question on this, but I can wait and get to that after I hear everybody's take.

[Josh Holmes]

Well, okay, so let me just start off the top rope and just put the people's elbow into the Zoomers. Zoomers. You got to stop talking about life like therapy. Yes, it's really uncomfortable. It makes us all very uncomfortable because for most of us, work is work and we do it because we need to do it to live. Not everything is a journey. Not everything is you putting agency onto the world. Some things are just your duty and responsibilities as an adult. And I know that's hard for you to come to Terms with. Because our entire society has treated you like permanent children. But that's not life. That's not life. And they feel like in order to have agency throughout their working life, they have to invent new terms. Mental health break, micro retirement. In order to just live in the same life that we've all lived. It's hard.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, I get it.

[Michael Duncan]

I have a different take.

[Josh Holmes]

Okay, well, why don't you go ahead and baby them real quick?

[Michael Duncan]

I'm not.

[Josh Holmes]

That'll be helpful for their development.

[Michael Duncan]

I don't believe this is real. I don't believe it's real at all. I think Fast company, you know, there's a publication that they're like, what kind of slop are we gonna throw out today? And some guy's like, oh, I heard a zoomer say the word micro retirement. Now I'm gonna write an article about it and try to SEO it and try to get some clicks because I work at a slop factory. Like, buzzfeed walked. So these slop factories can run. Right.

[Josh Holmes]

I actually like this take.

[Michael Duncan]

No one's calling it a micro factory. This is just another slop factory. SEO manufactured bs. No one's gonna talk about it in two weeks. I think actually, Zoomers, yeah, they've been coddled a bit, but they've also had it pretty damn bad. You know, like when you're at, like, either in high school or I guess they were like, in college. And then like, the whole world's been shut down for them. Like, think about what they did to kids in this country during COVID You know what I mean? It was horrible.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Duncan]

So like, now these people had to enter a job market where the president is an actual zombie, and then they have Kamala Harris run and tell him that she's like a small. Like, they've. They had a pretty bad. Those are some bad years, you know? So I doubt any of them believe in this micro retirement. I think they're all just like, to a certain extent. I think a lot of zoomers are getting beat up.

[Josh Holmes]

But do you disagree with me that. That they talk about life like therapy?

[Michael Duncan]

I think the left.

[Josh Holmes]

Because they do.

[Michael Duncan]

I think the left wing messaging has been to be like, toxic masculinity. Everything is therapy. Everything is a journey. Like, here's my grocery journey of how I went and got carrots. You know what I mean? Like, yes, But I think that's been a very left wing message thing. I think that's been part of the, like, woken.

[Josh Holmes]

But it's been pervasive in there. In Their totally in there.

[Michael Duncan]

And I think that's all getting scrubbed away, hopefully.

[Unknown]

So I agree with everything that's been said here. I simply have a question, and this is more for Michael Duncan than. Than the other guys, but feel free to chime in. You know, a lot of zoomers are looking at the economy and looking at the boomer generation that's fully retired and thinking, well, somebody has to load the money into Social Security so the boomers can continue their retirement and enjoying their lives in Florida or Arizona or wherever. So I'm just wondering if you think that these zoomers are concerned that there's a chance they won't be playing golf every day at 65 years old like the boomer generation has.

[Josh Holmes]

I guess that's probably.

[John Ashbrook]

He's trying to light your boomer fire, dude. I see what's.

[Michael Duncan]

Well, boomers are the greatest generation. I reject this notion to try to set everyone against boomer versus the boomers built the greatness of this country with their own two hands. Right. They had to go through. Look at all the. All the wars and the depressions that we've gone through in this country that the boomers have survived and pulled this country to greatness. Everything that they have, they have earned. For our viewing these attacks on the boomers, I reject them.

[John Ashbrook]

Who is less familiar with the ruthless variety program? What you've seen is a perfect storm of two individuals trying to ignite a fire under Mr. Duncan, the old man.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah.

[John Ashbrook]

And I think they've done so to great effect in a way that I'd like to just hand you.

[Michael Duncan]

The boomers are the greatest generation, and they'll never get their dues.

[Josh Holmes]

All right, so second thing first here, Smug talked about how the boomers survived the depressions and stuff. Well, by the very nature of the age cohort, they were after World War II. So that is factually inaccurate.

[Michael Duncan]

I'm talking about like, you know, 08 and then you also saw 80, and then you saw in 2000, there's been at least three stock market crashes that they've had to the savings and loans, the subprime mortgage scandal, the dot com bubble, and then Covid, dude. And still boomers rise. Still boomers rise. Boomers are heroes.

[Josh Holmes]

I have nothing against the baby boomers. I guess what I would just say, think a boomer.

[Michael Duncan]

Everyone out there go, think a boomer.

[Josh Holmes]

He's just gonna filibuster the thing.

[John Ashbrook]

Thank a boomer. He's trying. He's done his best to put the bee sting all the way into your ass.

[Josh Holmes]

All I would say is as hard as I give it to Gen Alpha and the zoomers about growing up and being an adult adults. I hope the boomers likewise can have a little bit of perspective from their own lives that they've lived in an America that had the most uninterrupted growth in, like, any democracy's history after the. After World War II, and that they live fundamentally in a different country than younger people have to deal with now as far as the competition and technology and all of these sorts of things that make it harder to build wealth and all that sort of stuff. And you look at the cost of living in this country and the cost of owning a home like it is by magnitudes greater than the average salary that people are earning today relative to when they were buying homes in the 70s and 80s. So just approach these younger people with grace in that department. But I think there's a limit to it, right? And that here in the United States of America, maybe it's different in the rest of the world, but we expect our adults to be adults and to go out there and earn a paycheck. And I feel for, like you said, smug, like, you know, Covid and what it did to these kids. Well, shit, when I was in high school, fucking planes were flown into the Twin Towers. Then we invaded two countries. When I went to college, I graduated in the Great Recession, you know, I mean, like, every generation has had its struggle.

[Unknown]

Michael, you make a great point. What these kids need to learn from their parents and grandparents is that you can walk into a bank and give somebody a handshake and get a mortgage for it.

[Josh Holmes]

That's not how it works.

[Unknown]

That's exactly how it works.

[Josh Holmes]

That's how it all works.

[John Ashbrook]

My generation is my bond. Yeah, Stronger than oak. Pillar of the community. Listen, I feel like I'm with an awful lot of these arguments. I do think there's an element, though, of the boomer aging process that has gotten us to a point where the disconnect with this generation, with the Gen Z or, you know, even as far back as, like, a Gen X, all the way to millennials, or whatever, is pretty magnificent. Where there is, like, they own. They bought a home for like a buck and a quarter or like, you know, traded an Indian head penny for 16 acres of land and, like, prime beachside location, and they're like, why can't these people figure out how to deal with stuff?

[Michael Duncan]

Oh, that's made up, dude. Boomers had to earn every bit of it.

[John Ashbrook]

I mean, it's made up. I just Think that there is an element of that that is very true. And it has that angst. It creates that angst. And that angst would be solved by what it is that you're saying in a lot of ways. But they don't just act like an adult rather than give me a therapist.

[Josh Holmes]

So that's the problem. The problem is the criticisms of the boomers, I think are accurate, but it shouldn't also be used as an excuse to be a piece of shit loser. You know what I mean?

[John Ashbrook]

Totally. Right.

[Josh Holmes]

Like that's the thing is like I don't want to buy into this grievance level left wing politics of how like the boomers had it easier, therefore we're allowed to be terrible. Yeah, don't have. That's seductive and I get it. Don't ever buy into that because that is not America. Likewise boomers. Acknowledge you had it easier. I'm sorry, you had it easier. You had it easier. But it's not an excuse for Gen Alpha and the Zoomers to go through life like it's a therapy session. Nothing's their fault.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, I think, I think it's just everyone sees. Everyone sees the boomers with what they have earned over a lifetime of work. You don't see all those little mini moments of sacrifice and hard work. You don't see that part.

[Unknown]

What you do see is that boomers made it to the moon. We haven't been back since.

[John Ashbrook]

Right.

[Unknown]

Smug boomers went to the moon.

[Michael Duncan]

They've done so much for this country.

[John Ashbrook]

He just totally tucked tailed and ran on you. No, it's amazing. It's genuinely incredible. This is a full gang up. I'm with you, Michael.

[Josh Holmes]

I'm right and I apologize for nothing.

[John Ashbrook]

No, listen, I think you are right. I think people need to figure it out. Pull the fucking oar, man. That's the whole thing, the whole thesis of what we were talking about with the 4th of July special and I think a deep thematic of our show in general. I don't care what generation you are. Like, have some respect for the country for what it is and know that you have a place in trying to make it better. And like, I don't care about your goddamn micro. I don't care. Whatever, whatever it is that you want to brand it. Two weeks. Yeah, it's pretty much in everybody's paycheck. Right. When you sign a contract with something, they're going to give you two weeks a year or like 10 days a. A year or something like that. Seems in line with that. So you can Call it whatever it is that you want, but I don't want you to hear about it. Just do what everybody else does. Pick up your oar and row the boat.

[Michael Duncan]

And thank a boomer while you're at it.

[Unknown]

Thank a boomer is the funniest thing.

[John Ashbrook]

Thank a boomer. There might be new merch coming for boomers everywhere. Smug replica.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

That's brilliant.

[John Ashbrook]

Thank you, boomers.

[Josh Holmes]

Thank you, merch. I'm not selling that shit. That's right.

[Unknown]

You have to sew it.

[Michael Duncan]

You don't care about the program.

[Josh Holmes]

I love the boomers.

[John Ashbrook]

Listen, we got to get to Dawsey here. This is a Wall Street Journal reporter. He's done an awful lot of time in Washington, D.C. and he's been at the Trump beat since day one. Nobody understands this stuff better than he does. He's got a lot of great stuff stories. He's got a new book out. Listen to this. Well, every once in a while here on the Ruthless Variety Program, we like to host a controversial figure, someone who there are many opinions about. And, you know, I mean, we like to hear people out, especially when they've done sort of big things. But he's a big. He's a. Listen, he's a big deal. And what he is now is a Wall Street Journal reporter. Josh Dossey. How are you, sir?

[Unknown]

I didn't realize I was that controversial, but I'll take your word for it. Should we unspool that a little or.

[Josh Holmes]

What I would say from my end. You know, BLT state closing here in D.C. was sad for many reasons, but it was sad for me, personally, because one of my favorite activities was to walk in there at happy hour, run into you and start an argument, bust balls.

[Unknown]

I think that was my twin. I don't have no recollection.

[John Ashbrook]

Those were different. Josh Dawsey. Well, he's here. Listen, he is one of the preeminent political reporters in all of the game. He's been around for a while. He's covered the Trump administration from soup to nuts, continues to do so. But he's also written a book. You're like a. I mean, look at what's happened. That's what you do when you graduate through the ranks and you become a big deal. Like, you gotta put pen to paper in the form of a book. And you wrote 2024 how Trump retook the White House and Democrats Lost America. I like the title. I feel good about. I mean, that is what happened. So, so far, so good.

[Unknown]

You cannot argue with that title, can you? I think that is inarguable.

[John Ashbrook]

So tell me. Look, we've been friends for a number of years and have talked about a whole range of different things. And I know you cover everything very, very closely. And you've thought people have tried to get you to write books before, many occasions, and you always thought, nah, it's like, not the right time for that. It's not what I'm doing. This is a different time. What about this particular campaign and what you think about sort of how it shaped how it ended and what it means going forward that made this the right time to write this book?

[Unknown]

Well, to me, it sort of felt like a singular moment in the story. I came to Washington in 2018, 16, and had been covering Trump mostly on, but off and on for almost a decade. And this election, either he was going to come back triumphantly and, you know, beat all the criminal charges in the various states and cases against him, beat all of his opponents in the party who wanted to run against him, and have, you know, one of the most amazing arcs kind of storyline of all time, or it was going to be an ignominious end for him. I mean, if he loses the election. One of the things, you know, he told me in an interview for the book was, you know, I kind of kept thinking about the rest of my life is going to be very unpleasant if I lose this election.

[Michael Duncan]

Right.

[John Ashbrook]

It really was a chips all in.

[Unknown]

So it was a chips all in moment. And so when we started writing this book, it was a Trump versus Biden story. Right. In 2023. And I thought a rematch of the previous election. We've never seen a story like that in American history. And, you know, the moment felt so different from 2020 that I thought it would one way or the other. It seemed to me like a great story that would be worth unspooling a little past the daily sort of newspaper deadline pressures. Right. Try to actually figure out what happened. And then the story became obviously way more interesting in almost every way than even I expected.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah. I mean, because you're a guy who has good relationships that, you know, in your day to day job, you hear all kinds of things that you can't just sort of fit into the daily newspaper, but they make for great stories. You just don't have a outlet for it. And this was a decision early on about, all right, I'm gonna start gathering string on this thing and it's Trump. Right. I mean, you'd known you'd cover the Trump White House from the very beginning. You knew you were Gonna get some great stuff. The color that comes along with Donald J. Trump is unlike anything we've seen in political history. So, you know, it's gonna be entertaining no matter what. So you're like, all right, here we go.

[Unknown]

Well, when I talked to him in January for the book, I said to him, I said, you know, he told me, he was like, are you ready to get back to it? Cause I was like, you know, we're talking about him going back to Washington in a week. And I was like, you make a lot of news, sir. And he goes, that I do. And I think there was an awareness that the show was returning, so to speak, and I think he was ready for it. You're right. Trump brings out, you know, and I think a lot of the book is colorful scenes about Trump and some of his top advisors around him and sort of how historic campaign, by all accounts, worked and didn't work. What went well? What didn't go well. But actually, a lot of the more interesting material, in some ways, in the book turned out to be on the Democratic side. When we first started writing the book, I think it would be fair to say we all saw Trump as a main character in the book. We thought it would be a Trump book. Biden, Kamala Harris, others would be sort of supporting players. But Trump was a show. But really because of all of the things that happen in 2024, things that we never imagined happening. You know, the debate performance, Hunter Biden's trial, switching the nominee, you know, just the way the campaign played out, some of them. I think more maybe surprising material in the book is actually things that played out on the Democrats.

Well, so can I. Can I. Can I start there? You know, there's been a lot of speculation about President Obama's role, and not only Biden moving off of the ticket, but Kamala Harris moving on. And I wonder if there's any stories or color that you picked up that's new to that conversation.

Well, the two of them have an extraordinarily complicated relationship. Right. I mean, I think there's a personal fondness there. He was President Obama's vice president for eight years. I think they had some warmth. But I think in private, Obama was always skeptical of Biden's oratory skills, his chops as a politician. If you remember back, he did not want Biden to run again in 2020. He was skeptical of Biden running. And Obama made pretty clear going into this election, he thought the Democratic Party should maybe consider someone else privately. Right.

[John Ashbrook]

Which I'm sure Biden loved that.

[Unknown]

Biden did not love that. The Biden sort of psyche that we kind of learned in book. You know, people for years had sort of told Biden he was not a national figure, he was a senator, he was not presidential material, and he'd always wanted to be president. I mean, he had been saying for 50 years he wanted to be president, if not longer. Right. And was told by all these people, including Obama, maybe you're not up for it. And so in the book, what you see, Obama is watching this. And Obama tells of Biden senior staff. You know, your campaign's a mess. You guys have real problems, and you gotta get together because what was happening in early 2023 and late 2023, even. But I don't think I understood the depths of this clear. There was lots of polling that Democrats did not want Joe Biden largely. They thought he was too old. You saw that across the country. You saw the dnc, no matter what, force him through. You saw the apparatus force him through. They were very determined to have Biden, even as the voters said, no, thank you. But what we learned in the book was how they solve the signs behind the scenes. Right. One of the things we have in the book is digital engagement for Democrats went way down. Small dollar fundraising for Biden went way down. People who wanted to volunteer went way down. I mean, there were all these lagging signs of support, and Obama and others saw that, but there was very little they can do. I mean, you can't. They were sort of locked in with the guy until he changed his mind.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Josh Holmes]

So the psychology of that on Biden's side, he has all these people telling him, we don't think you have the chops. We don't think you're that great of a campaigner or orator or all those sorts of things. He's obviously sort of passed over for Hillary Clinton in 2016. So he's got this chip on his shoulder, right. And then 2020, all the stars align and you end up in an election with a sitting president and the worst pandemic in, you know, U.S. history, and you somehow become president and he feels like he proved them all wrong. Right, Right. Do you think that psychology of, like, finally proving all the critics wrong is what kept. It's what kept him in. Is it that. That ultimately victory is what defeated him? That was the hubris and the tragedy that is Joe Biden 100%.

[Unknown]

I mean, I think what he saw proving everyone wrong, he thought he could do it again.

[John Ashbrook]

Right.

[Unknown]

And one of the elements of A book that I sort of think is really interesting is the way that his top advisors, particularly Mike Donnell and Steve Richetti, kept information from him. I mean, there was a concerted effort to. I'll give you an example. His pollsters, after the debate, after the horrible debate, repeatedly wanted to meet with him. Just to lay out, here's what we're seeing. Here's what the numbers show. Here's what's going on. They asked for a meeting after weeks and weeks and weeks, meetings at 2 o'. Clock, it's pushed back to 4, 7, 8, canceled. His pollsters never met with him.

[John Ashbrook]

No.

[Unknown]

Never got FaceTime with him.

[John Ashbrook]

You're kidding.

[Unknown]

They put all the polls to Donald and the machete who saw what he wanted. He got so desperate near the end that campaign staff wanted to quit because donors were not giving, you know, during that period before Kamala Harris becomes the nominee. That. And they can't get to Biden to talk to him. So Adrian Elrod, who's a prominent Democratic operative, calls Joe Scarborough and gives him the briefing that she wants to give to Biden, hoping that Scarborough will do it on his show. So then Scarborough does it the next morning on the show. So they finally got some of the information they want to get to Biden.

[John Ashbrook]

Because he was watching Scarborough through Morning.

[Unknown]

Joe while he was on the treadmill. We have a scene in the book where Pete Aguilar, our congressman, is telling Rashetty, you know, you guys are going to bring down the House, you guys are going to bring down the Senate. I mean, his numbers are awful in all these states. And Rashetti says, I don't think that's so. And Pete Aguilera says, oh, every member of Congress that I have in a swing district is incredibly worried about what an albatross you are. Rashetti said, well, that's not what we're hearing. Right. Schumer repeatedly went to top folks in the White House and said, you guys have got to tell the president what we're saying, what senators are saying.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And they wouldn't do it.

So that then when Kamala comes on the screen on the scene, did Democrats think that she was going to solve those problems honestly, or did they think she's the best we can get? At the time, they thought that she.

Gave them a chance.

[John Ashbrook]

I mean, they'd already braced themselves.

[Unknown]

They had basically by the end of July, after the Republican convention, the assassination attempt on Trump, a lot of Democrats had given up and they thought if Biden was the nominee and he didn't drop out this Thing was over. And they thought at least Kamala Harris gave him a fighting chance, something different. Right. And what you saw in those early sort of halcyon days of her campaign, her numbers went up big time. Right. Her favorables went up. I mean, Tony Fabrizio, Trump's pollster, said it was the biggest shift he'd ever seen on a candidate in a short period of time.

[John Ashbrook]

And that was received well in Trump hq, I admit, was not received well in Trump hq.

[Unknown]

But Fabrizio told others, we have this in the book. You know, this is a sugar high. Her numbers are gonna come back down to earth. We've just gotta sort of wait this out, put ads out there, spend some money. We can still define her. But what really happened in that moment, I think the Democratic base was so depressed at losing and Biden and whatever, that a lot of their voters, who should have been Democrats anyway, sort of came home. Yeah, but it wasn't that she was winning. Anyone knew that she needed.

[Josh Holmes]

She's just making up the deficit.

[Unknown]

She was sort of making up how sharp the deficit was, if that makes sense.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And I don't think one of the things that we sort of write about a lot in the book was her goal. And it obviously didn't work to try and convince independent voters and sort of folks, you know, never Trump Republicans, so to speak, to come to her. And we obtained all these memos that the campaign hired a sort of Republican consultant, Maria Kamela. She was Chris Christie's longtime person, sort of known in Republican circles, to try and put together a plan on. Here's how you get Republicans to come vote for you. Right. And she basically tells them, you guys have to do everything differently. Right. I mean, we have the memos where she says, on the trans issue, you have to answer that question differently. You have to create some distance from Biden on a lot of these things because Biden's numbers are just so bad.

[John Ashbrook]

That one didn't take.

[Unknown]

You can't.

Before or after the View interview.

I know, right. You can't keep appearing with Liz Cheney. Liz Cheney's not who's going to get you these voters. These memos are pretty stark. I mean, she says at one point, do you really want the last speech to be on the lip like we do not. The J6 is not the message of his campaign.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, right.

[Unknown]

And they were all sort of not adhered to. Right. Because that was not their theory of the case.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah. Well, it seems like they created a theory pretty early on, including trying to promote Donald Trump as His opponent early on from the in Biden hq. But at some point, this thing starts to turn. There's a consolidation within the Republican electorate for Trump that they probably didn't anticipate. And then this thing just starts sliding sideways. And there's been a lot of talk with the Tapper book and all of this about, you know, who knew what, when, and knowing that you covered the Republican side of the House, not the Biden White House. I'm curious, from your perspective, just in knowing journalism, how much is it a culpability issue with people just not seeing what they're seeing in front of them? Was there, in your opinion, Is there a. A concerted effort? Is it an access issue? Like what. What happened here? Because what happened on stage, to those of us who spend our lives watching very closely, what happens in politics was not a surprise to anyone in that debate. I mean, this was what we expected, anticipated in some way.

[Unknown]

You expected him to be that. That bad?

[John Ashbrook]

Well, you watch him for two, three years not being able to complete a sentence and wandering off stage and calling out dead people in the audience. I mean, this is like, this is not something that are just simple mistakes because you're on camera every day. It's stuff that, like, was pretty obvious to anybody who wanted to pay attention.

[Josh Holmes]

I think the mistake that Democrats made, and I think they sort of deluded themselves, is Biden had a stronger than anticipated State of the Union. Right.

[Unknown]

Gave them a false sense of security.

[Josh Holmes]

False security. But that was never Joe Biden's problem. He could always read the teleprompter. The problem was when he had to talk extemporaneously, you know, and we saw it there on the debate side stage.

[Unknown]

You know, one of the things we have in the book is how badly his debate prep went. So we go out to Camp David, they spend a week out there. Right. And the short sessions, he's not doing great in some of the sessions. He's people watching. At one point, they bring in Steven Spielberg to try to coach him on his voice, which is such a perfect.

[John Ashbrook]

Democrat thing to do, is they have.

[Unknown]

All sorts of people in his year.

[John Ashbrook]

And now Brad Pitt.

[Josh Holmes]

Yeah, right.

[Unknown]

They are trying coach him on a lot of things. You know, Jeffrey Katzenberg's involved. They're trying.

[Josh Holmes]

Oh, no, they're trying. Lots we laughed and we laughed lots.

[Unknown]

And lots and lots.

Can we do this debate in Pixar?

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And at the end of like days and days and days of this, Ron Klain, who was running debate negotiations, turns to the rest of the Group and says this is going to be touch and go, right? Because I think they realized, like, this could go poorly.

[John Ashbrook]

More go than toast.

[Unknown]

It was interesting though. What's really one of the things that I think is sort of, I don't know, just was surprising to me, right? The Trump folks that night were sort of pre. Spinning the debate and they thought that Biden would do okay. Not great, but okay. And what their fear was was that Biden would do 5 out of 10, 6 out of 10, and that they thought the media would then sort of chalk that up to a win, right.

Because expectations were so low.

TV of all these talking points, right? For surrogates and whatever. And then they're watching the debate. They're at a volleyball college SEM at Georgia Tech University. They're all watching the debate. At first they think the sound is off. Cause they can't hear him. And so they scream out, can someone turn the sound on? Can you turn the sound on? They're like, no, no, the sound's on. Like, nothing's wrong with the tv, right? That's great color. So they go and they get. They have to write new talking points for the surrogates. Because they're talking points were not, oh, this is gonna be so bad. He can't be coherent. They literally write entirely new talking points. They bring printers in. And what they tell the surrogates in the room is they're like, look. And at this point it's, you know, It's Rubio, it's J.D. vance, it's all of these senators, they say, you know, whatever you do, when you go out there, you have to say Biden is still their nominee. They gotta stick with Biden. Right? Biden is a nominee. Under no circumstances can they switch a nominee. What an amazing moment. So when they're like watching this and processing and they're like, okay, this is really good for us. But also like, is this going to lead them to switch the nominee?

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, they were afraid right away, right?

[Josh Holmes]

It's like that Bronx tale, like, now you can't leave.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, they really wanted him not to leave, but he ultimately does. And again, the whole Kamala rise and all of this, you get into the fall how much, I mean, look, you followed President Trump right from day one. There was a thought from many of us who interacted with the campaign, but also interacted with the first four years that there was a level of discipline there and execution certainly in the early days, maybe a brief hiccup in the mid summer doldrums were. But the Execution down the stretch. The message discipline was incredible. And it seemed like Trump just had a different. I don't know if it was a different energy, but it was seemed much more like, how do you attribute that in your reporting?

[Unknown]

He did have a different energy. I mean, I think he saw this as sort of his election as an existential moment in his life. I also think he had more trust of the people around him. I think in 2020. Brad Parscal Stappian, who are his campaign managers? I'm not saying anything negative about these guys, but I don't think they had the relationship with Trump that Suzy Wiles and Casa Savita had with him. I just don't think they did. And I think Susie in particular was sort of a calming presence for Trump. Right. And you know what they would often have to do down the stretch. They believe the theory of a case. And they were saying this to me and others at the time. This is an election about the economy. We win overwhelmingly when we're talking about other things. It's harder for us if we make this about the economy. So they would try to get Trump every event, to talk about the economy. And there's a scene in the book. He's at Bedminster. He's at his golf club, and they're doing this. They have this array of groceries out on the table, like steak and Cheerios and whatever, because they want to do this cost of living and inflation presser. And he's just in an awful mood that day, and he's been in an awful mood for weeks because Kamala Harris was a new nominee. He's frankly just pissed off about it. And we have a whole chapter sort of in this, in the book. And they're backstage with him, and they're like, we want you to read this speech about the economy. Like, we've put all these groceries out there. He's like, this is boring. I don't want to read this. I don't want to read this. They're like, no, can you read this? And so they basically compromised with him. They say, read this and then talk about whatever you want to talk about, just as long as you read a little bit of this first, right? And then he goes out and takes questions and does kind of whatever he wants, but he does read part of it, right? And down the stretch, Trump, by all accounts, was a little jittery. He was, you know, seeing some of the public polling. He was sort of hearing from friends. You know, I don't see ads on in my state ads.

[Josh Holmes]

Every candidate in History, by the way.

[Unknown]

Right?

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And Fabrizio and Susie and Chris were, you know, pretty confident. I mean, I remember conversations with his senior folks two, three weeks out. They were like, you know, I'm curious if I should say this on air, but I'm going to. Oh, yeah, please.

[John Ashbrook]

Whatever your deepest, darkest secret, they didn't.

[Unknown]

Understand what Kamah Harris's campaign was doing. In their mind, they were winning, the numbers were moving in their favor, and what her message was did not make sense to them.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, she was doubling down.

[Unknown]

And I remember being on the phone with a couple of Trump folks in October, and they said to me, I couldn't. What are they seeing that we're not seeing? Like, what is their theory of the case? Can you just articulate to us? We really want to sort of understand, like, is there, like, a big flag here? And I sort of didn't get into it with them, but I remember thinking, like, they're either really right about this or they're really wrong. At the time, I don't think we knew, but obviously their numbers were right.

[John Ashbrook]

We did in the end. Well, it's a terrific book. And you cover, like you said, both sides, both campaigns, a lot of under the hood stuff that nobody's ever reported and heard from. A big journey for you, pal. A big journey. A big journey all the way from Graphic One, please, if we wouldn't mind spaghetti. If we can get that thing up.

[Unknown]

Spelling bag.

[John Ashbrook]

There's the Scripps National Spelling Bee competitor Josh Dawsey in 2004, if I'm not mistaken.

[Unknown]

That's correct.

[John Ashbrook]

2004.

[Unknown]

I went out early, but that is me at 2000.

[John Ashbrook]

Not that early, though.

[Unknown]

I made it to the nationals, but not that early.

[Josh Holmes]

Guy makes it to Nationals, he's like, I went out early.

[Unknown]

There's a whole. This whole thing here, guys, the spelling big culture. I mean, it's like the most serious competitive thing in your life, right? And you get there and you realize, like, I don't have a chance. I mean, these people are way more prepared than I am.

[John Ashbrook]

So I've told you this story, but for the benefit of our audience, we used to. Ashbrook and I, along with like, 15 other people, used to put down, like, an annual event that we called Bet the Bee.

[Unknown]

I remember this. You told me about this, where the.

[John Ashbrook]

Whole thing was, you draft five spellers, four that you think can win the competition. And there was metrics. Like, we had done this for years, 7, 8, 9, 10 years where we could kind of tell who was going to be A contender. The best indicator was if they had.

[Unknown]

A sibling betting on horses.

[John Ashbrook]

But first, boy, it's 100% like betting on horses. So if there was a good lineage there, like a brother or sister who.

[Unknown]

Competed, you know why? Because that meant the parents were driving.

Exactly. You're not without data in making these selections. As you know, every single local newspaper sponsor the best speller in the area and so they always do a story. And how the speller responds to the reporter's questions is a great indicator of how seriously they're taking their job to win. If they're talking about my mom is on me to spell, spell, spell every day. It's the only thing I'm thinking about that is a very high pick. If they're like, you know what? I love the Seahawks and I can't wait to see how they do this season. You're like lower.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, no, you don't want that.

[Josh Holmes]

You don't want that.

[John Ashbrook]

And like, basically just not to get too specific, but if it's an Indian home school kid with a brother or sister who had competed in the national B before, that's going to be a top five.

[Unknown]

You get away.

[John Ashbrook]

It's just going to be what it is. And so. But then one of these selections needs to be a loser and you're docked points for every round that they advance. And in 2004, I saw this young gentleman from South Carolina who had all the hallmarks of somebody who couldn't spell lek.

[Unknown]

That was me.

[John Ashbrook]

No joke. So I drafted you. And I was sad to say that you cost me dearly because you did figure out how to spell some things right. And I didn't win the championship because of it.

[Unknown]

That's the best news I've heard today. I cussed you your spelling beeple.

[John Ashbrook]

You did?

[Unknown]

You did. I pushed nothing else today. I've done something with my life.

[John Ashbrook]

You did.

[Unknown]

Is that why you called me controversial at the top of the show?

[John Ashbrook]

Well, yeah, maybe it's controversial to me. I could have won. I could have had the 04 championship.

[Unknown]

I just love that Holmes should not bet on me.

[Josh Holmes]

I love, I love that Holmes is basically the Mel Kuiper of handicapping the spelling be.

[Unknown]

I will say I, I, we got good at it.

[Josh Holmes]

It's one of the most degenerate things I've ever heard.

[Unknown]

I love South Carolina. I grew up there. I went to college there. It is a wonderful, beautiful not take this as an insult to anyone from South Carolina is listening. I'm not sure it was the most competitive state for the national sport for spelling bee.

[John Ashbrook]

Well, no, no. I mean, we look at these things every once in a while. You get thrown off as a homeschool kid in Kansas, and you're like, I didn't see that coming. Right. But South Carolina felt real confident. Like, I don't remember where you went to high school, but I remember thinking at the time it was like on either public school or something like that. I was like, ah, this doesn't like. You got to be real homeschooled if you're in South Carolina.

[Unknown]

Homeschooled. Yes.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah. So. So listen, you got a good sense of humor, buddy.

[Unknown]

I'm happy to take that.

[John Ashbrook]

You got a good sense of humor. You do. You do incredible work. We don't always agree on everything, obviously, but your job is to sort of, like, get under the hood and you've got good relationships. I mean, some of the people that we know and like in this business think the world of you. And so I can imagine this book is gonna be a big hit. Cause you got a lot of open sesame, a lot of open kimono with folks.

[Unknown]

We'll see if they still like me afterwards.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, no. Well, that's the challenge. But now you're an author, so it doesn't matter. Right. When you're an author, they let you do it.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I think I'm not gonna respond.

[John Ashbrook]

To that one at all.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're not gonna. We're not gonna touch that one.

[John Ashbrook]

People can get this book today anywhere.

[Unknown]

Yeah, bookstores, Amazon, whatever you wanna do.

[John Ashbrook]

Okay. It's 2024. How Trump retook the White House and the Democrats Lost America. Something this program can get behind. But this is very, very good. You ought to check it out. Thanks for coming in, bro.

[Unknown]

Thanks for having me, guys.

I love talking to him. I love talking to anybody who writes a book that has that much of a. Just a clear window into stories you've never heard.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And obviously he has a full lineup of them. And I really encourage everybody to buy the book. But also just an incredible guy, great personality. Somebody you should read on the reg in the Wall Street Journal.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah. One of the few guys that we interact with on a, you know, almost daily basis where, you know, they're. They're honest, you know, and there's tons of stuff that the guy's written that I've disagreed with over the years. And obviously there's some copy editor he was. Used to be at the Washington Post. I can only imagine the headaches that he had to go through to try to get truth to light in that organization. But like he wants to do it the right way, he gets well sourced. And I think these stories are incredible. There's nobody who's going to get under cover because there's so much of what they deal with on a day to day basis that you can't report. But in long form in a book like this, you're going to see some stuff and hear some stuff that you've never seen before for good stuff. I'm glad he came in here. Good luck to Dawsey and his book sales. Our question of the day, as you remember was what's going to happen to the America party? What is it? And what's your take on the whole America party? We want all that. When you like and subscribe, we'll read it, distill it down, and we'll give you three good answers that we think best. Summarize all of your points of view when we come back to you on Thursday. And recall, we're gonna keep adding a Friday here for a bit. Yeah, feels like a nice groove for us. We like this.

[Michael Duncan]

Yeah, there's a lot of good news to cover.

[John Ashbrook]

Yeah, there really is. There really is. So with that, I think we did it.

[Michael Duncan]

I think so. Absolute banger of an episode. Gentlemen, thank you again to Josh Dawsey and thank you to the Minions. Remember, if you have not yet subscribe to the YouTube, it's more fun in video. So until next time, Minions, keep the faith, hold the line and own the libs. We'll see you Thursday. Stay ruthless.