Podcast Summary: Saldremos Mejores

Episode: "Saldremos de la inspección de Hacienda" (5x19)

Hosts: Inés Hernand & Nerea Pérez de las Heras
Guest: Carlos Cruzado, Auditor de Cuentas y Técnico del Ministerio de Hacienda
Date: January 29, 2026

Overview and Main Theme

This episode dives deep into the function, perception, and controversies surrounding Spain's tax agency (Hacienda/Agencia Tributaria), taxes in general, and the crucial role of public revenue for the welfare state. Inés and Nerea approach the subject with their trademark humor and clarity, unpacking myths, tackling recent news about fiscal policy, and interrogating the social and economic impact of taxation. Special guest Carlos Cruzado provides expert insights, debunks common tax-related urban legends, and responds to burning audience questions about how taxes really work in Spain.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Opening: Surviving the Elements & Societal Chaos

• The hosts begin by recounting their harrowing journeys to the studio amid winter storms, emphasizing the importance of public services funded by taxes.
  • "Ahí van los impuestos, cariño mío. Van exactamente ahí..." (00:54, Nerea)
• They touch on the psychological state of the public (“nuestras psiques están cogiditas con alfileres”) and relate it to wider social tensions, notably mentioning threats against comedian Héctor de Miguel and journalists (02:17-03:19).

2. Current Events Roundup

• Regularization of Migrants:
  • Recent agreement between Podemos and the government for a historic regularization of up to 500,000 migrants in irregular situations.
    • "Eso es una puta maravilla..." (05:13, Nerea)
  • They criticize the political right for focusing on migrants' voting rights, calling out the hypocrisy of welcoming economic contributions but denying political participation.
    • "Ojalá pudiera Jennifer, la que cuida a tu abuela, votar, porque fíjate, de otra manera nos irían las cosas." (06:38, Nerea)
• US Political Violence:
  • Discussion of recent police killings in Minneapolis and the coordination of civil patrols to document abuse. Highlights contrast with Spain’s current policies on inclusion and public services (08:47-11:01).
• Madrid’s Tax Cuts:
  • Ayuso’s government announces a €500 million tax cut in Madrid, prompting questions about who really benefits (11:01–11:37).
• Right-wing votes against the “Decreto Ómnibus,” which included important social protection measures (11:37-12:40).

3. Why Do Taxes Matter? The Philosophy and Reality

• The hosts frame taxes as essential to society’s fabric:
  • "Los impuestos son el precio de la civilización." (16:16, Carlos, quoting Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr., US Supreme Court Justice)
• They explore the emotional charge around taxes, the populist demonization (“el estado te roba”), and the gap between enjoying public services and resenting how they’re funded (13:03-15:44).

4. Understanding Where Taxes Go (15:53–17:12)

• Carlos details government spending:
  • Roughly €200bn on pensions, €100bn on health, €70bn on education each year. More than 60% of tax revenues go to these essentials.
  • Corruption is recognized as real, but its magnitude is small relative to total expenditure.

5. Who Benefits from Tax Cuts? (17:12–18:56)

• Analysis of Ayuso's Madrid tax policy: while theoretically broad, such cuts end up benefiting high earners more due to progressive structure.
  • "Las bajadas de impuestos… benefician a las grandes rentas, a los grandes patrimonios." (18:56, Carlos)

6. The Case of the Self-Employed (“autónomos”)

(18:56–21:57)

• Disentangling the confusion between tax and social security contributions.
• Autonomous workers often complain about high minimum quotas, but the issue lies in cotización social, not strictly fiscal policy.
  • "En lo que se refiere a la tributación... no se puede decir que los autónomos tengan un gravamen especial." (20:22, Carlos)

7. Targeting Tax Control: Small Fish or Big Fish?

(21:57–25:16)

• Carlos advocates for stronger focus on large fortunes and companies, not just small businesses or the self-employed.
  • "La Agencia Tributaria debería poner más el foco… hacia grandes patrimonios, hacia grandes empresas..." (21:57, Carlos)
• Lack of inspectors and resources compared to the EU/OECD average limits Spain’s ability to collect from the wealthy (24:39, Carlos).

8. Globalization, Tax Havens & Inequality

(25:18–29:35)

• Large companies and multinationals exploit legal loopholes to minimize taxes.
• Reference to efforts like the global minimum 15% tax (OECD) and the proposed 'Tasa Zucman' on big fortunes.
  • "Si esto fuera así… se podría equilibrar... lo poco que están pagando estas muy grandes fortunas..." (27:53, Carlos)
• Persistent inequality and revolving doors between big business and politics skews the tax system.

9. Myths and Bulos (Urban Legends) About Taxation

(32:33–41:04)

• "Subir los impuestos espanta a los ricos":
  • Carlos debunks this as overblown—businesses rarely, actually, relocate for tax reasons, except “youtubers” with few obligations (33:08–34:42).
• "España es un infierno fiscal":
  • Spain is below the EU average in tax pressure; claims about mass exodus are unfounded.
  • "No es cierto que sea un infierno fiscal." (35:53, Carlos)
• Bizum and Microtransactions:
  • Hacienda only cares about Bizum used for business, not splitting dinner with friends.
  • "En absoluto se puede asustar a la gente porque... Bizum normalmente se utiliza para compartir gastos de una cena..." (36:17, Carlos)
• "Regalos, bodas, donaciones":
  • No, you don’t pay taxes on birthday presents unless it’s a house or luxury car.
  • "Esto es absolutamente falso." (38:50, Carlos)

10. Tax Evasion: The Real Scale and Mechanisms

(41:04–46:36)

• The major leaks aren’t from small-time cash jobs, but massive corporate VAT fraud, shell companies, and transnational scams.
• 'Día sin IVA' commercial campaigns are misleading and contribute to the anti-tax sentiment.

11. Inside the Tax Agency

(45:24–47:02)

• The Spanish tax agency does more than audits; it manages customs, IT, and provides direct assistance to citizens.
• Risk profiles for investigation: significant wealth/growth with low declared income is a red flag.

12. The Role and Ethics of Tax Advisors

(47:02–51:22)

• Advisors dance the fine line between legal ‘tax optimization’ and outright fraud.
• Celebrity tax fraud examples (Messi, Shakira, Bertín Osborne, Ana Torroja) illustrate the spectrum of evasion, elaborate set-ups, and eventual settlements.

13. Public Perception, Solidarity, and the Future

(52:57–57:40)

• Many people feel taxes are a burden, yet 60% of Spanish citizens receive more in public benefits than they pay in taxes (FEDEA report).
  • "El 60% de los ciudadanos reciben más de lo que aportan." (56:12, Carlos)
• While fears about pension system collapse are fanned by private interests, experts stress its continued viability, at least in the medium term.

14. Final Thoughts: Civics, Welfare, and the Importance of Paying Taxes

• The hosts and Carlos emphasize strengthening tax culture as civic duty and a bulwark for the welfare state.
  • "Esto es entre todas." (53:35, Inés)
  • "Es importantísimo pagar impuestos..." (54:18, Inés)
• They close by expressing thanks for public workers, reminding everyone that fraud ultimately undermines collective well-being.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Social Solidarity:
  • "Los impuestos son el precio de la civilización." – Carlos (16:16)
  • "Esto es entre todas." – Inés (53:35)
• On Public Spending:
  • "El 60% de los ciudadanos reciben más de lo que aportan." – Carlos (56:12)
• Addressing Bulos:
  • "Esto es absolutamente falso." – Carlos (38:50), on taxing birthday gifts
• Civic Participation:
  • "Vamos a seguir existiendo y haciendo nuestro trabajo, le pese un poco a quien le pese." – Inés (03:19)
• Practical Advice:
  • "No metas las uñas... No te metas a desgravar cosas que no te correspondan..." – Inés (59:26)

Timestamps for Key Sections

• 00:54 — Taxes and Public Goods: "Ahí van los impuestos..."
• 05:13 — Migrants’ Regularization: "Eso es una puta maravilla..."
• 11:01 — Ayuso’s Tax Rebate Announcement
• 13:03 — Taxes and the Welfare State
• 15:53 — Carlos Cruzado explains where tax money goes
• 18:56 — Who benefits from tax cuts?
• 20:22 — Are autónomos unfairly taxed?
• 21:57 — Should Hacienda focus less on freelancers, more on big capital?
• 25:18 — Global loopholes, Zucman Tax, inequality
• 36:17 — Bizum and tax control myths
• 38:50 — True or false: Taxing gifts and living with parents
• 41:04 — Where the REAL tax fraud is
• 47:02 — Tax advisors and their responsibility
• 56:12 — "60% reciben más de lo que aportan" (FEDEA statistic)
• 59:26 — Advice on not committing petty fraud

Takeaways

• Taxes are essential for a functioning, fair society, funding the health, education, and welfare that form the basis of daily life in Spain.
• Most Spaniards benefit more from public expenditure than they pay in taxes.
• Major tax fraud is engineered by the wealthy and corporations, not ordinary people.
• Common tax scares (“infierno fiscal,” Bizum, birthday gifts) are often myths with little basis in reality.
• Political rhetoric around tax cuts/dislike often serves powerful interests, not average citizens.
• Solidarity and accurate information are crucial for defending public services and combating both disinformation and social inequality.

Episode Personality & Tone:
Critical, humorous, warm, and didactic—balancing tough critique of injustice with optimism and a focus on collective civic responsibility.